He confuses targeting Islam with targeting him... Sheikh Abdulmajeed al-Zindani, head of Islah Central Committee and Rector of al-Eman University criticized the US Ambassador to Yemen Edmund Hull for the accusations that al-Eman University promotes extremism in Yemen and helps fund terrorism. A press statement issued by al-Zindaniâs office, distributed on Wednesday, condemned the unnecessary US worry over the university. It also called, in a way to show al-Zindaniâs interest in direct dialogue with the US, to âbe honest and just in their charges against Sheikh Zindani and al-Eman University.â It pointed out that the US accusations against al-Zindani and al-Eman University fell in line with âthe US Administrationâs policy of trying to dry up the springs of Islamâ rather than terrorism.
Mr. Edmund Hull told al-Nahar independent weekly last Wednesday that âwe are worried about the activities of al-Eman University; we aim to stop foreign funds to al-Zindani, so as to stop his funding for the university and the activities that promote terrorism and finance terrorism.â Al-Zindani was put by the US Treasury Department on the list of people suspected of supporting and funding al-Qaeda and terrorist organizations. Al-Zindani denied such accusations. The US media reported in January 2003 that prisoners held in connection with the attack against the USS Cole told local authorities that al-Zindani issued a decree or fatwa ordering the strike and that the authorities did not investigate into such allegations which were denied by some leaders of the Islah party.
Al-Zindaniâs statement disclosed that âthe US Ambassador informed Sheikh Abdullah al-Ahmar, chairman of Islah Party that a student of al-Eman University called Amer al-Shareef was being detained by Yemeni security authorities, and that he previously used to run al-Qaeda cells at the university, but that the investigations made by al-Ahmar and al-Zindani with the university administration found that the name was not enrolled at the university and did not study at it at allâ. It added âal-Ahmar told the ambassador about this information,â but the ambassador replied that âhe might not be a student at the university but he had contacts with its students.â Despite the denial of al-Zindani and al-Eman University that Abed al-Kamil, murderer of the three US doctors at the Jibla Baptist Hospital on December 30, 2002 was not a student at the university, Hull said âthe killer of the doctors in Jibla is a member of the al-Eman university and it has a role in promoting extremism.â Al-Zindaniâs statement accused the US administration of targeting the Muslim world, its governments, clerics, and its educational and charity institutions. It said that on the basis of this, the US administration âpracticed the policy of drying up the springs of Islam, alleging that it is drying up the springs of terrorism. It demanded the governments in Muslim countries change the Islamic education curricula of schools, institutes and universities.â
Posted by: Fred ||
04/07/2004 12:45:30 PM ||
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It's like robbing banks. You go where the money is.
#9
Chedderhead - people who talk about things they're not supposed to talk about "disappear"... Remember Vince Foster? He knew all about Case Yellow. And then there's Slick Willie - he INVENTED Case Yellow...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/07/2004 22:18 Comments ||
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Saudi Arabia identified on Wednesday a suspect killed in a shootout with police this week and said he was wanted on criminal charges. An Interior Ministry official named the Saudi man as Abdulrahman bin Nayef al-Sahli al-Harbi and another suspect wounded in the clash as Abdullah bin Ghalab al-Sahli al-Harbi, neither of whom was on a wanted list of top Islamic militants. "They are both wanted by security forces for criminal activity by a misguided group," the state news agency SPA quoted the official as saying. He did not elaborate. The clash in the capital Riyadh broke out after police stopped a suspect vehicle with false plates. The two men in the car started shooting and police returned fire.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/07/2004 12:14:35 PM ||
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criminal activity by a misguided group
Maybe they were some of those fabled saudi alkrunners? Oh, that's right, only westerners run alk, couldn't have been the brothers al-Harbi. Hummm, now what was it about families getting gunned down together......
Posted by: Steve ||
04/07/2004 12:32 Comments ||
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A youth arrested in anti-terror raids has been remanded in custody accused of conspiracy to cause explosions. The 17-year-old was one of eight men arrested under anti-terrorism laws in raids last Tuesday. He appeared at Bow Street magistrates court and was remanded to return there on 14 April. Police now have until Thursday evening to continue questioning the seven others and a ninth man who was arrested last Thursday. The charge was put to the youth that: "Between 1 October 2003 and 31 March 2004... you unlawfully and maliciously conspired with others to cause, by an explosive substance, an explosion of a nature likely to endanger life or cause serious damage to property". The charge was made under Section 3 of the Explosive Substances Act 1883. Asked whether he understood the charge the teenager, who was unshaven and dressed in a black sweatshirt and black jogging trousers, said: "Yes". I wonder if weâll hear anything from supposedly moderate Muslim clerics who appeared on TV speculating that these loonies would face no charges and thus deserved no condemnation. Well, here be the charges and all I hear is the sound of crickets chirping. Come on gents, letâs hear you...
[Shep - apologies for the BBCâs âSneerâ marks!]
Posted by: Howard UK ||
04/07/2004 6:32:11 AM ||
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My sincere apologies - the last para requires a highlight. 'Tis mine.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
04/07/2004 6:33 Comments ||
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Howard, is he tried as an adult in the UK?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/07/2004 14:16 Comments ||
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Super Hose: No, as a juvenile in a Youth Court. Will serve time in a Young Offenders' Institute (Nasty.) and then be moved to big boy's prison. Noticeably, the parents, who live in a modest home, managed to raise £500,000 in bail but even our Judges aren't mad enough to let that happen...
Posted by: Howard UK ||
04/07/2004 15:06 Comments ||
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Chile has ordered 12 Lebanese clothing importers to leave the country, following an investigation into alleged ties to the al-Qaida terrorist network.
Worried about vests with big pockets being the only clothing export Lebanon is known for.
A lawyer for the Lebanese nationals, Ricardo de la Barra, said he would appeal the decision giving his clients 15 days to leave the country. He said authorities felt the presence of his clients in the northern port of Iquique was, in his words, "not useful or convenient."
Now there is a understatement.
The Lebanese workers were part of an investigation last year into suspected money laundering operations linked to al-Qaida. No charges were filed in the case.
Sounds like Chile found enough evidence to kick them out.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/07/2004 10:15:11 AM ||
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Is that a stick of dynamite in your imported pants or are you just glad to see me?
Foreign Minister Michel Barnier told parliament Wednesday that France would oppose Turkey's entry into the European Union "under current circumstances."
Barnier, who was named foreign minister in a government reshuffle last week, told lawmakers that Ankara has not met the conditions necessary for entry into the EU, such as ensuring the independence of its judiciary and implementing human rights reforms. "Turkey does not respect the conditions, even if it is preparing to do so," he said, adding that there was "no question" of Turkey's joining the EU "under current circumstances."
Didn't even leave cab fare on the dresser.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/07/2004 3:18:50 PM ||
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Ok, Turkey, wacha gonna do? No EU for you, there is no future with the likes of Iran, Syria, and Co. Who can you REALLY trust when the chips are down? It is a dangerous world out there for all of us.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/07/2004 15:39 Comments ||
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It would be a mistake for the U.S. to blow off Turkey. It is a hundred years down the long road from Islam to modernity. Iraq is one year down that road. No other Middle East country has its walkin'shoes on as yet.
#6
I guess the Turks may finally getting what rewards Fance has for those who support French policy. The only reason the Germans haven't done the same thing is that there are tons of Turkish "Gastarbeiteren" (guest workers) there who would riot.
I wonder if the Turks will finally reconsider who their true allies really are?
#8
Grunter - sure, talk is good. Hell, have a hootenanny if you want. Buy a rug and some furniture.
But know this: Trust, once broken, is not easily reestablished, nor should it be.
You wife ever cheat on you? A couple of friends have told me that there is no way you can ever feel the same again.
This is how Turkey must be seen, now. I understand the difference between the Military and Political leadership. I also understand that they acted in concert, the proof being the decisions made, when they betrayed the US for that bogus floater from France & Friends in early 2003. They had plenty of time to decide between the US and The Others. We, and this was a mistake, IMO, made them some very sweet offers - when our history as allies and our half-century of favored largesse should've been more than enough. I objected to the bribes then as they made Turkey's decision look like a prize purchase at an auction.
They made their choice. They chose wrong, as has been demonstrated repeatedly over the last year.
They are in limbo, where they belong. Cooperate? Sure, fine, right up to the point where you share sensitive intel. Trust? Not with current Pol and Mil leadership. Not on your life - or the lives of the US Troops who died because we fought a one-front war. The entire 4thID spent the 'Drive to Baghdad' on ships enroute from Turkey to Kuwait. The SunTri got a pass. We are, right this minute, correcting that huge mistake - at some cost, not to mention all the troops who have already died because the SunTri has been a base of ops for a year. Over 600 US dead now. Many are directly due to that betrayal.
#9
Gee, anybody see that one coming? I guess Turkey's screwing us on the northern front didn't lead to peace, love and understanding with the EUnuchs after all, huh?
#10
.com you are totally correct but we must keep in mind that the turkish no vote was a very slim majority and the fact that we do need turkey in this war. this war will consume syria and iran eventually and we will need turkeys support then.
yes they betrayed us but then they got shit on by the euros. the next time around turkey will know better if for no other reason than there being no other choices.
lets remember that the US and Britian were competitors up till WWII. we almost went to war in the 20's with each other over size of our navies. but we are not very strong allies and i think the turks deserve a chance (they are not going to get one from the euro's).
Posted by: Dan ||
04/07/2004 17:43 Comments ||
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Anonymous2U> You rang?
"Ankara has not met the conditions necessary for entry into the EU, such as ensuring the independence of its judiciary and implementing human rights reforms"
Anyone here actually disagrees with that?
Turkey doesn't fulfil the conditions for the EU to even consider it entering. Simple as that. You people keep on seeing entry into the EU as if it's akin to entry into NATO, where even dictatorships could join without a problem, as long as they were *friendly* dictatorships.
But it's not akin. You are not fully democratic, you ain't entering -- you have unresolved disputes with a prior member state, you ain't entering.
Freedomhouse still labels Turkey as "Partly Free", even though it has improved in recent years. (http://www.freedomhouse.org/research/freeworld/2003/countryratings/turkey.htm) When it becomes fully free, we may talk again.
#13
Dan - True - the vote was close. And that is irrelevant for it doesn't change the decision they made. So?
They didn't have to participate, all they had to do was grant "right of passage" -- and they denied it. Fuck any "next time around" - when will you figure they have evened the scales for dead American troops in Iraq directly attributable to the circumstances resulting from their decision?
Hey, if they had told us up front, before the 4th ID was sitting in ships off their shore and we hadn't started offloading equipment on their docks - say a month or two before that, we would've at least been able to get 4th ID in the fight - which undoubtedly would have had some forces moving through the SunTri. Keep the timeline in mind and what exists today makes perfect sense - it didn't just spring up out of the ground. Cause, effect, consequence, learn lesson - or rinse, repeat.
#14
.com---I sympathize with your sentiments about Turkey and trust. However, strategic situations are fluid. We may not be able to work as close with Turkey as we once did, but we must remain flexible to meet new challenges. For example, I do not think that we should crawl into bed with Libya, but for whatever reason G'Daffy decided to change his tune, it is working out better for us now. If we remained too rigid and dogmatic, and wrote Libya off, we would not be there now. Gotta be flexible, not enough to sell our souls, but be flexible.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/07/2004 21:18 Comments ||
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AP - I didn't say I had a broom handle up my ass, Lol! I can be flexible. I just don't trust them nor do I think that they are trustworthy.
Hey, I'm one of the guys who commented that Daffy had been an asshole for 30 years so going way slow was wise when he flipped his game, heh.
I stand by my statements regards Turkey. Don't turn your back and don't make plans which have any crucial component that depends upon them. K?
#19
D'accord er excuse my French, .com. Agreed. LOL! I guess I meant work with em if you can, but always watch you six, no matter what.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/07/2004 22:55 Comments ||
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#20
On this rarest occasion I agree w/ .com--don't trust Turkey after their behavior--but I don't see the tie in with their membership in the EU--they are definitely not and will never be an EU country culturally--and don't get me started about religion...
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
04/07/2004 23:18 Comments ||
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With a new threat of terrorism coursing through Europe, intelligence and police authorities say they are acting more aggressively, with greater emphasis on pre-emptive action to roll up networks of Islamic militants whose members may not have committed crimes, but who have the skills or ideological resolve for violence. .... Huge antiterror sweeps and arrests have followed in Britain, Belgium and France, and related arrests have been made in Canada and Saudi Arabia. Intelligence monitoring of international communications has intensified, but investigators say connections to the "terrorist central" that Al Qaeda once represented no longer seem so important for some groups that identify with the cause but have their own skills and resources. ....
European intelligence officials say that some recent raids represent less a new threat than a shifting in tactics to deal more aggressively with an existing one. .... The French had kept a group of Moroccan-born militants under surveillance for some time, but had no specific cause to arrest them when the police struck in dawn raids on Monday, seizing 13 men with suspected links to the Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group. .... The crucial factor was that they had traveled to Afghanistan, where they learned to use weapons and make explosives.... The new French counterterrorism motto ... is "Every time we discover a cell, we eliminate it as a pre-emptive measure." In Britain, the shock of the Madrid attacks made a developing threat seem more imminent. Scotland Yard suspected that a group of young Britons of Pakistani origin had become radicalized by lunatic fiery imams in local mosques and might have reached out to international terror networks, perhaps even Al Qaeda. They, too, had fallen under surveillance by security services before the Madrid bombings. Soon after the attack, 700 British police officers conducted the largest antiterrorism operation in years, arresting nine men of Pakistani origin in and around London. .... British counterterrorism officials said they took pre-emptive action based mainly on suspicion â another shift in tactics after Madrid. ....
In the post-Madrid mobilization in Europe, Germany has been quiet, but German intelligence officials say they are not lulled by the calm. "Most of the Al Qaeda cells in Germany have been prosecuted and destroyed," said Carl Heinrich von Bauer, deputy head of the North Rhine-Westphalia state police. With German forces now in in Afghanistan, the government assumes that Germany is on the target list. Belgium was one of the first governments to act after the Madrid blasts, where the police arrested four members of the Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group in the week after the attacks. The preponderance of ethnic Moroccans under surveillance in the Spanish, French and Belgium antiterror operations reflects not only the size and dispersal of Moroccan immigrants across Europe, but also the intense disaffection of a growing fraction of young, mostly unemployed Moroccans who are vulnerable to the call to radicalism. "After Madrid, European police and intelligence services are increasingly focusing on the North African community" in Europe, one senior intelligence officer said. But since many North Africans now have citizenship in Europe, it is difficult for security services to act on intelligence about potential threats without violating their rights.
Seems like there should be some mechanism to strip them of their citizenship when their actions are treasonous to their new homeland...
Swedish and Danish newspapers suggested this week that Swedenâs intelligence services were so determined to expel a Moroccan-born Swede suspected of having Qaeda ties that they lured him to Denmark, where he would have less legal protection against extradition. According to those reports, they then tipped the Danish security service to arrest him so he could be turned over to Moroccan authorities. ..... The police and intelligence services are under pressure to effectively engage in racial profiling to weed suspected terrorist cells out of law-abiding communities where mainstream frustration is rising. But the public demands results, as one intelligence chief pointed out. "Although there is uncertainty about where the likely targets are," he said, "there is a growing certainty in Europe that there are targets."
That racial profiling angle keeps coming up. Nobody seems to dwell on the fact that the Bad Guys are engaging in some "racial profiling" themselves as they indiscriminately bump off as many infidels as they can.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/07/2004 8:29:22 AM ||
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Did he say "pre-emptive action"? Did he say "shifting...tactics"? Is reality setting in, if ever so slowly? After vilifying us for the pre-emption doctrine, they quietly begin to adopt it, if only in domestic policing. The words are encouraging but I will not take heart until they show up for the next war ahead of time.
THE only suspect ever convicted for his work in the September 11 attacks has been freed by a Hamburg court. Lawyers for Mounir El Motassadeq said he had been freed after his guilty verdict on charges of aiding the suicide pilots was thrown out last month, The 30-year-old has been serving a maximum 15-year prison term in Hamburg since a court in the city convicted him in February 2003 of giving logistical help to the Hamburg al-Qaeda cell that included three of the September 11 pilots. Assistants at the offices of both of his Hamburg lawyers, Gerhard Strate and Josef Graessle-Muenscher, said they had received the courtâs ruling ordering el Motassadeqâs release.
Posted by: tipper ||
04/07/2004 6:28:11 AM ||
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In a nutshell this is the problem w/treating terrorism as a law-enforcement problem.
In another post there are accounts of numerous people swept up in preventive raids.Want to bet that most of those swept up in those raids will be ordered released by various national courts in next 3 months?
Posted by: Stephen ||
04/07/2004 17:27 Comments ||
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In 1997 David Courtailler, a Frenchman trying to kick a drug habit in the seaside town of Brighton, found the answer to his personal demons in the teachings of Islam. He converted at the local mosque, and a few days later was approached by a mysterious man "who persuaded him to go to Afghanistan to undergo military training", says a French indictment. "This man paid for his airline ticket, gave him 1,000 pounds and a telephone number in Pakistan." Thus began an adventure in the Islamic militant underworld with strands that reach across Britain, France, Spain, Holland, Morocco, Algeria, Pakistan and Afghanistan -- but which ended when he was caught stealing a pair of shoes in a Normandy port.
His lawyer says the 28-year-old was just a loner on the fringes of society who became unwittingly caught in a vast militant underground network beyond his understanding. Courtailler knew key figures who have been linked to both the Madrid and Casablanca attacks, and his case ties those figures to extensive networks in Britain, France and elsewhere. But it has become clear that before March 11, Spanish police missed clues that a Moroccan network linked to the Casablanca strikes was also plotting to kill in Spain.
A Reuters investigation into the Courtailler case shows that police forces in other European countries also held extensive pieces of the puzzle. David Courtailler's lawyer, Philbert Lepy, describes him as a down-and-out naif who entered the world of Islamic militants in a quest to find himself. "He's a bit of an odd sort of guy. Actually at the time he had had a lot of problems in France. He'd had trouble finding work, he was a drug addict," Lepy told Reuters. "He could just as well have ended up in a sect or something else. He sort of saw the light in the mosque and and that lit up his life." As for the militants he met along the way: "He admits having met them, but he never took part in their activities. Obviously he was in a paramilitary training camp, and there he saw people training for war. But at the time, which was 1998, everyone in Afghanistan had weapons."
Whether Courtailler was a willing militant or an innocent convert caught in over his head, he would have been an ideal recruit for an underground movement planning attacks. "This is exactly the sort of people that are really worrying the security services now," said Kevin Rosser, terrorism expert at consultancy Control Risks Group. "European passport, non-Middle Eastern appearance, and no reason why he would come to the attention of the security services unless they happened to be investigating the militant groups he was in contact with." Rosser drew parallels with "shoe bomber" Richard Reid, a Briton drawn to Islamic radicals in London who tried to blow up an airliner with explosives in his shoes, and "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh, recruited by militants while studying Arabic in Yemen and captured on the battlefield in Afghanistan. "These are people who are just sort of lost."
I still can't quite get my mind around the assumption they have no control over their actions...
Courtailler stayed in Afghanistan undergoing training for about six months. He then returned to Brighton, where he remained caught up with underground radicals in England. French authorities say he frequently travelled to London, where he attended the Baker Street Mosque, hearing sermons by Abu Qatada, a Syrian-born cleric British authorities say was a leading inspiration for al Qaeda. The late 1990s were a period when France and other European countries were particularly frustrated with what they saw as a lax British attitude toward Islamic radicals. The British capital earned the nickname "Londonistan" in the French press. British officials now acknowledge they were then inclined to leave radicals alone, provided they reassured the authorities that their followers were not planning attacks on British soil. Crucially for Courtailler, the radical circles of "Londonistan" were linked closely to the cells in Spain and Morocco now blamed for the Casablanca and Madrid attacks.
Abu Qatada was in regular contact with Abu Dahdah, the top al Qaeda suspect held in Spain. Abu Dahdah's mobile phone number was found at the home of Madrid bombing suspect Jamal Zougam. Details of Courtailler's Brighton bank account were found in a book of bank transfers at the home of "E", another of the detainees now held under British emergency powers, French court documents say. "E", a suspected recruiter for Algeria's Armed Islamic Group militants cannot be named in this report because of a British court order banning the naming of most emergency detainees. French documents say "E" spoke frequently by telephone with Abu Zubaida -- a senior lieutenant of al Qaeda leader bin Laden -- about recruits for Afghan training camps. When he was detained, "E" also had the Madrid address of a one-eyed Bosnian war veteran living in the Spanish capital under the name "David Burgess". French authorities believe "Burgess" is actually an alias of one of the Benyaich brothers, a wealthy Moroccan clan whose sons are blamed for the Casablanca attacks. It was this family which hosted David Courtailler on his next travels.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/07/2004 12:48:03 AM ||
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--"These are people who are just sort of lost."--
Then join the Moonies.
You don't go killing people because you've stared at your navel for far too long.
Hat tip to Emperor Misha, The Hammer of The Idiotarians, orver at nicedoggie.net . Veterans should secure any loose objects within arms' reach before reading. Slightly EFL'd.
Too young to buy a beer, but old enough to die for their country. This irony is not lost on Americans who have chosen to flee the US in search of refuge in Canada. For some it's a race against time before the army figures out they are gone. Trust me, they know.
The story for many of these deserters is the same: a life in the military appeared to be a good choice at first, not to mention a quick and easy way to further their education. But few expected that they would be sent overseas in very hostile conditions such as Iraq. Never ceases to amaze me how these geniuses miss things like guns, uniforms, attacks on the US that leave thousands dead...
Most who decide to run away do so because they don't want to end up dead or, if not killed by the enemy, then driven crazy and ultimately shooting themselves.
It's true, you know. I've been crazy ever since I set foot in Vietnam. So far I've shot myself 11 times. With my clothes off I look like a Swiss cheese with feet...
Sandwiched between Mexico to the south and Canada to the north, the vast majority choose the latter for their escape. There are a number of reasons for this, mostly because of the cultural similarities and the ease by which they can cross the border. Yet for some even the relatively open trek up to Canada is not that easy. Americans rarely travel outside their own country, so a trip to Canada is daunting to many.
Most Americans don't speak Canadian, y'know. Many have never even tasted a fried beaver tail...
Some have found assistance on the Internet, including former soldiers who will help those in desperate circumstances to escape. Although there are many similarities between Vietnam and Iraq, The first one being that there ARE no similarities
one main difference is that those in the American military who are now AWOL are, in fact, volunteers. Even so, those seeking refuge in Canada still feel that they shouldn?t have to pay with their lives for making a mistake or, more precisely, their government's mistake. After 9/11 the number of volunteers for the American military rose substantially. Moreover, most American soldiers didn't have qualms about initially serving in Afghanistan. At the time, they felt that they were avenging an attack on their own country. However, with Iraq the situation is much different. Unlike Afghanistan, the resistance is much bigger. Also, while news from Afghanistan has more or less subsided, the Iraqi conflict lingers. Americans traditionally like their wars short and sweet; when they are long and drawn out, with more and more casualties and the prospect of defeat, as in Vietnam, American soldiers and the general public tend to revolt against their own government.
That's why we have the Democrat party...
Crossing over the border into Canada is not particularly difficult for Americans seeking to flee their own country. At some small border crossings, there is only a Canadian border guard asking a few routine questions. At other larger checking points, such as at Niagara Falls, the traffic between the US and Canada is so routine that often it's enough for an American to claim that they are crossing over to see a concert or a sporting event. For most Americans on the run, the alternative to fleeing to Canada is to lie low in the US and hope they are not caught. But for some the experience is nerve-wreaking. Prison awaits any American who goes AWOL and is caught. And trust me, deserters in military prisons tend to be the prom queens..Given the deplorable state of US prisons, it's not something war resisters look forward to. For most, going to jail as a conscientious objector isn't even an option, especially at such a relatively young age. ..even though that is the one honorable and respected means of getting out of combat...oh wait, you really have to BE a concientous objector, not a coward.
One they get to Canada, however, an American refugee's troubles aren't over. They are still considered illegal immigrants and don't have any legal status for being in Canada, which means legally they aren't allowed to work. Some of the lawyers representing Americans who have already escaped to freedom in Canada think that the chances of these refugees being able to stay is quite good, given the fact that Canadians don't like George Bush nor his war very much. Likewise, the political implications of sending back an American who has gone AWOL are great, for the Canadian government isn't going to be able to say the war is illegal and Canada won't support it, on the one hand, but Canada will send back to the US those who object to the war, on the other. To make matters worse, the new Canadian government of Paul Martin, unlike his predecessor Jean Chretien, has publicly stated its desire to change course and be more friendly with the US on foreign policy. This could mean that the young men and women who flee to Canada to escape military service in the US may be treated more harshly than in the past. ...Gee, what a frickin' shame..
In the end, it will take months or even years before a decision on a refugee's application is taken. And even after that, there are chances for an appeal, which would then extend their temporary status for a further several months or years. In other words, just like the bureaucracy back home, but with better beer...Ironically, bureaucratic red tape is a blessing in disguise: the entire process may be just long enough for a government to come into power in the US, one which will take back and pardon those who had fled their country for having followed their conscience. Over our dead bodies.
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
04/07/2004 12:35:33 AM ||
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"...take back and pardon those who had fled their country for having followed their conscience."
"Conscience," my ass. These people volunteered to serve in our armed forces, and their slinking away to Canada is motivated by nothing more noble than simple cowardice.
They'll make great Canadians, and they can damn well stay there.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/07/2004 8:02 Comments ||
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#2
Now we have second reason to shut down the border: First to keep the Islamo-facists out. Second to keep those who are unwilling to fullfill thier moral obligations in.
#3
this stuff is as bad as the stuff they write in NK. What did they do- roust out some old grey-haired pony hippie from his cabin in Big Sur where he has been without communications since 1975?
Maybe they just can't find any young people interested in in writing this stuff and have to dig up the ones hoping to justify and relive their youth.
#4
Sniff sniff..........You have them in every war.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
04/07/2004 8:19 Comments ||
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#5
this stuff is as bad as the stuff they write in NK.
This is just one example of this German's anti-American hit pieces. Google "John Horvath" for more of the neo Lord HawHaw's propaganda.
#6
relax guys -I doubt there there are that many deserters - at least not many more than usual. Most guys today are itching to see some action. This is just propaganda - and I said above, sad and pathetic propaganda at that. Don't fall for it.
#8
sorry to ramble on...but this is all so out of touch. I mean today we just think...let 'em go. Adios amigos. We're happy to rid you from our gene pool and we certainly don't want you polluting our fine military. Go...be gone. Spend the rest of your life justifying your cowardice .. it's your loss, not ours.
The peace and love generation got old and not-sexy and seem today to be little more than spineless no-loads afraid of their own shadows... probably from smoking too much pot and causing a permanent loss to their grip on reality.
You know times change - and these people are stuck in their own little world of flowers in their hair and bad poetry. The truth of the matter is that they never really were cool..they were just "in" during for a brief moment in history. Time marches on and these guys have been left so very way behind that the best we can do for them is pat them on the head and nod politely.
#9
Americans rarely travel outside their own country
When will Europeans grasp just how fricking BIG this country is? I mean, Christ, there's really no reason to travel outside of the US for most Americans.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 8:57 Comments ||
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#11
This is a propaganda piece. I don't know of any deserters hopping to Canada. I would've heard about it if it were a problem. Desertion where I'm from is not even a thought. This author is obviously full of sh*t or drank one too many molsons.
#12
This is the old "make Iraq into Vietnam" ploy again by the lefties. Problem was Vietnam was a conscript army wiht an arguably unfair draft. This fight isnt - its all volunteer, and the nation has been attacked.
They VOLUNTARILY took a solemn oath to "Uphold and defend..." and "Obey the officers appointed..."
These are just cowards. Oathbreakers.
Desertion during war. Should be shot.
If we ever get a president who gives blanket amnesty to anyone deserting like this, that president deserves to be impeached for violating his oath.
#13
There's another way to get the government to help pay for your education: student loans. There are other means, too, like scholarships, grants, and--*gasp*--working! Expecting the military to pay for it without meeting the obligations you voluntarily accepted and swore to satisfy ain't the way.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/07/2004 9:30 Comments ||
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#14
This is the old "make Iraq into Vietnam" ploy again by the lefties. Problem was Vietnam was a conscript army wiht an arguably unfair draft.
Makes you wonder why most of the calls to reinstate the draft come from the left, doesn't it?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 9:32 Comments ||
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#15
Like, how many, dooooood? 1, 10, 100? Let's have some statistics.
Or is this your smug little primer for the coming deluge?
#17
So, we should understand them because they tried to scam the Armed Forces of money and scholarship while not fulfilling their part of the contract? While we are at it why don't admire a guy who enlists as a fireman and then doesn't try to rescue the people trapped in a burning house? What of a cop who runs when there is a bank robbery? Of a lifesaver who won't go into water if it is under 20 C degrees? All of them admirable people to be set as examples.
The man who started Hooker's Beaver Tails went to Canada in the '60s. Yes, he was an American draft dodger. I know this 'cause I once worked with his daughter.
#19
WOW! You mean the Military is designed to fight? I glad I retired after 20 years and never knew that. Next youâll tell me that fire burns, ice is cold, and water is wet. Scammers! IHO I would not want them back into my unit. The last thing I want when I go into battle is someone who doesnât know what the military does. I would discharge them (OTH) and make them pay restitution for whatever benefits they received in the military (Medical, Dental, education).
#20
Too young to buy a beer, but old enough to die for their country.
This line always cracks me up. Nobody ever tells these guys that an active-duty service member can go into a base club and order a beer, regardless of their age.
#21
I've got a nephew that works for Air Force Recruiting Service in San Antonio. I asked him if there was a real problem with Air Force people deserting or going AWOL since Operation Iraqi Freedom. From what he can find out, there appear to be about twelve Air Force people who have deserted - gone AWOL for more than 30 days - in the last 18 months. According to his findings, those numbers are "about average", and that of those dozen people, "one will have died, and another hospitalized for drug, alcohol, or other related problems". It's not a scientific survey, but it does indicate there isn't a big problem. Tom says there hasn't been any significant change in recruiting goals, no changes in screening, or other changes that would indicate the need to address a problem such as mass AWOLs or desertions.
My daughter's a senior in high school this year. Many of her classmates are gearing up to enter the military once they graduate in May. None of them are talking abut NOT fighting, so I guess that's a non-issue to them. Half or more want to join the Marines, the rest are divided among the other three services. Quite a few have already joined through delayed enlistment programs.
I think this article is more an expression of wishful thinking than actually trying to report facts, and is pretty shoddy even at that.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/07/2004 15:00 Comments ||
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#22
Yeah, had one guy in my unit in Germany desert on us. He went home on leave, found his girlfriend shacked up, fell apart and went home to his folks. Problem was his folks were living in British Columbia, Canada. Call us up and told us he wasn't coming back. Few months later he crossed the border and gave himself up. He was judged "unfit for service" and discharged. Funny thing, while waiting for paperwork to go through, they had him working at the AF JAG office. They were sorry to see him go, said he was a good worker. You just never know.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/07/2004 16:16 Comments ||
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#23
Most desertions I can speak of - only a handful - were guys who were shitbags anyhow and not missed when they left - had prior njp's and other discplinary problems.
Essentially, we can extradite people for something that is also a crime under their laws. Since Canada didn't have a draft in the late 60s, draft-dodging wasn't a crime, so they wouldn't extradite. Since they do have laws against desertion, they would extradite, if we wanted them back.
#27
Is there nothing in life that can't be found in monty python
Colonel Come in, what do you want?
Private Watkins enters and salutes.
Watkins I'd like to leave the army please, sir.
Colonel Good heavens man, why?
Watkins It's dangerous.
Colonel What?
Watkins There are people with guns out there, sir.
Colonel What?
Watkins Real guns, sir. Not toy ones, sir. Proper ones, sir. They've all got 'em. All of 'em, sir. And some of 'em have got tanks.
Colonel Watkins, they are on our side.
Watkins And grenades, sir. And machine guns, sir. So I'd like to leave, sir, before I get killed, please.
Colonel Watkins, you've only been in the army a day.
Watkins I know sir but people get killed, properly dead, sir, no barley cross fingers, sir. A bloke was telling me, if you're in the army and there's a war you have to go and fight.
Colonel That's true.
Watkins Well I mean, blimey, I mean if it was a big war somebody could be hurt.
Colonel Watkins why did you join the army?
Watkins For the water-skiing and for the travel, sir. And not for the killing, sir. I asked them to put it on my form, sir - no killing.
Colonel Watkins are you a pacifist?
Watkins No sir, I'm not a pacifist, sir. I'm a coward.
Posted by: bruce ||
04/07/2004 21:12 Comments ||
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#28
Two quick thoughts: 1. More Canadians came south to serve with US forces in VietNam than American scum ran north to avoid service. (A convention of Canadian VietNam vets will give you a hangover almost beyond imagining). 2. The US is unlikely to elect another president as pathetic as Jimmy Carter so any scum now fleeing north are unlikely to be pardoned in the lifetime of anyone now living. I, for one, have never forgiven those sanctimonius, slimy, pusillanimus pricks that deserted their country in time of war or Jimmy Carter who welcomed them back.. Someone else had to stand in harms way in place of everyone of those "men" who went to Canada/
EFL from WND
The firebombing of a Jewish elementary school in Montreal was executed yesterday as direct retaliation for the Israeli-sponsored assassination of Sheik Ahmed Yassin, the founder of the Hamas terrorist group, according to a "warning" note left outside the burned-out library, the Citizen has learned. I guess we need to agree on a definition of the term "direct retaliation". Attacking a school in Montreal canât really be considered a direct retaliation for Yassinâs death which occured in a location about ten time zones east from Montreal.
Have to work on the definition of "warning," too. Usually you'd expect it to come before the school got burned own...
Mr. Yassin was killed when Israeli helicopters launched a missile attack on him as he left a mosque in Gaza City. Shortly after the killing, Hamas vowed revenge against Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. So Kosher deliâs in Maryland beware.
Police would not discuss the contents of the note. CTV News quoted a portion of the letter, as saying: "Our goal was only to sound the alarm without causing deaths. ... but this is just a beginning. If your crimes continue in the Middle East, our attacks will continue."
I'm trying to recall just what the Great White North's crimes in the Middle East are...
Sharon better stop or somebody might splodeydope Sesame Street.
The firebombing attack came on the eve of Passover, around 2:30 a.m. yesterday. "Itâs an act of terrorism, plain and simple," said Sidney Benudiz, principal of United Talmud Torah school, set in a residential Montreal neighbourhood. The fire left the school library in ruins. No one was in the school at the time of the fire. The fire is now under criminal investigation. Police say the unknown attackers were inspired by hate. Jewish leaders and police said anti-Semitic leaflets, including a "warning" note, were left behind by the perpetrators.
Oh, is that where Boris went on his vacation?
The attack has shaken Montrealâs Jewish community, with leaders boosting security across the city. "Thereâs shock. Thatâs the first reaction. But weâre a strong community and it will continue to do what we do and we will do whatever we can to stop this senseless, hateful violence," said Bill Surkis, executive director of the Quebec region of Bânai Brith Canada. The attack on the elementary school sparked indignation across the country yesterday. Prime Minister Paul Martin condemned the attack, saying itâs against values espoused by Canadians. "We must all utterly condemn this cowardly and racist act, and draw together to fight such an abomination which, like cancer, undermines the harmonious relations among the diverse communities that make Canada an example throughout the world," Mr. Martin said in a statement. I thought that all Canada was big into making donations to Hamas and IJ.
"On behalf of all Canadians, I would like to express our solidarity toward the Jewish community around the world in Montreal and across Canada. ... This is not my Canada and this is not our Canada." Justice Minister Irwin Cotler, a Montreal MP and a graduate of the school, expressed outrage while surveying the damage. "What we have witnessed here today is the anti-Semitism of hate and of racism. The anti-Semitism of violence, anti-Semitism that consists of an assault on the inherent dignity of being human.
There are other kinds of anti-Semitism?
"Everyone is hurt when these types of actions take place," Salam Elmenyawi, president of the Muslim Council of Montreal, said in a written statement. Mohamed Elmasry, president of the Canadian Islamic Congress, said he hoped that a Muslim was not involved, as this would undoubtedly fuel anti-Muslim sentiment. "It was a hate crime, and the agony will be double if it was committed by a Muslim," he said. The fire comes after a recent spate of anti-Semitic violence in Toronto. Acts of anti-Semitism are on the rise in Canada, according to an audit released recently by Bânai Brith Canada. The report recorded 584 incidents of anti-Semitism in 2003 -- the highest number of cases in 21 years when Bânai Brith first started keeping tabs on the problem. Most of the 2003 incidents occurred during the buildup to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. The Montreal region accounted for 102 of those incidents last year. Thatâs a 17-per-cent rise from the 87 cases recorded in 2002. Iâm sure that Bush will be blamed for the rise in anti-semitism. And it will be suggested that Israel refrain from taking action against Humus to protect other Jewish property in Canada.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/07/2004 3:07:13 AM ||
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#1
Israel snuffs Yassin, so somebody firebombs a school in Montreal?
If terrorism is supposed to cause political change, you have to make it clear what that change is supposed to be. Attacking folks who cannot do a damn thing you want is just wasted effort.
Posted by: Ben ||
04/07/2004 3:59 Comments ||
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#2
Bombing Kindercare in Boise may look fruitless but the chance of getting blasted with an uzi is greatly reduced - the attraction of the Charmin soft target.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/07/2004 4:19 Comments ||
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#3
[Troll droppings deleted]
Posted by: Man Bites Dog TROLL ||
04/07/2004 13:08 Comments ||
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#4
I'm sure if Muslims all around the world were to suddenly suffer broken kneecaps every time something like this happened, sooner or later they'd start condemning this kind of behavior. Until then, enjoy the crickets chirping. Until the Muslim "community" learns there are consequences to their behavior REGARDLESS OF WHERE IT HAPPENS, they'll continue to pull this kind of bullshit. Let it begin today.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/07/2004 15:29 Comments ||
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#5
[Troll droppings deleted]
Posted by: Man Bites Dog TROLL ||
04/07/2004 13:08 Comments ||
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#6
I am sure that Moslems all around the world will condemn this attack.
EFL - full article provides justification for the belief that DNC candidates have made and will continue to make the listed errors. The writer also lists the expected consequences of each error as well.
Until a few days ago, presidential candidate John Kerry was able to take all the shots he wanted at President Bushâs record in the war on terror, while remaining out of critical range himself. But last weekâs 9/11 commission hearings changed all that.
The hearings presented a Democratic record on terrorism that is marred by fundamental policy fumbles and ultimately fatal misjudgments. Of course, some of the errors in fighting terrorism in the 1990s could have been -- and were -- made or repeated by the Republican administration of George W. Bush. But a top-five list drawn from the testimony before the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States and the reports prepared by commission staff, reveals errors that stemmed from what might be described as the post Cold War, Democratic world-view. This world-view would be unlikely to change as the partyâs foreign-policy mantle changes hands from Clinton-Gore to Kerry. Unless, of course, candidate Kerry says it would and explained how. Hereâs a detailed enumeration of the mistakes:
Error No. 1: Unwillingness to use force to retaliate against terrorism or pre-empt attacks.
Error No. 2: Inaction in the face of legal obstacles.
Error No. 3: Animus toward the intelligence community.
Error No. 4: Fear of unpopularity in the court of domestic and foreign public opinion.
Error No. 5: Failure to improve bilateral relations with Arab states and Pakistan.
Other errors abound. The largest is of course that neither the Democratic administration of Bill Clinton, nor the Republican administration of George W. Bush felt enough urgency about Al Qaeda to wage all-out war against the group before 9/11. And thatâs despite the fact that Al Qaeda had -- as both administrations knew - publicly declared war against the U.S. in February 1998.
Beyond such collective guilt, though, lie great differences. The Bush record on fighting terrorism is as it stands. Meanwhile, voters who wonder "how would a Kerry administration prosecute the war on terror?" need to look no further than this list for some idea of the answer. Unless, of course, Kerry disassociates himself from the policies of his Democratic predecessors, or criticizes them as forcefully as his fellow Democrat on the 9/11 commission, Bob Kerrey, did last week.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/07/2004 3:31:40 PM ||
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For 36 hours last week, the Department of Homeland Security prevented Ian McEwan, an eminent British author, from entering the United States on grounds he did not have the proper visa to give lectures. McEwan was admitted only after the intervention of the State Department, appeals from the British government and scores of complaints from three West Coast groups that had booked speaking engagements. But his passport was stamped "Refused Admittance," and McEwan will no longer be allowed into the United States under a visa waiver that has long been granted to citizens of the United Kingdom and 26 other Western countries. ....
McEwan tried to enter the country last Tuesday under a visa waiver, as he has done many times for trips during which he has given paid lectures. But he aroused suspicion among customs officers when he said he would get $5,000 for each of three lectures. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/07/2004 8:38:48 AM ||
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snicker....Folks round here don't take kindly to your type...ya'll best get on yore horse and head on out of here.
Posted by: B ||
04/07/2004 10:07 Comments ||
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I wrote this. Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7
During the month of August 1994, Terry Nicholsâ wife Marife and Timothy McVeigh came to live for a few weeks with Nichols on a farm in Marion, Kansas, where he was working as a hand. On August 31, 1994, Terry Nichols told farm owner, Tim Donahue, that he would quit at the end of September. Nichols told his ex-wife Lana Padilla he was quitting in order to move permanently to Cebu City, where his wife would enroll in college to study physical therapy. Marife then did move to the Philippines, leaving Nichols and McVeigh at the farm. Before Nichols quit, he told Donahue that he intended to deal at gun shows with McVeigh, predicting he would earn twice as much as he had earned on the farm. It seems therefore that McVeigh dissuaded Nichols, at least temporarily, from moving to the Philippines.
During September Nichols and McVeigh developed their plan to blow up the Oklahoma City federal building. During the last week of that month they made many phone calls to chemical companies and stole explosive materials from a quarry. During October they purchased fertilizer.
McVeighâs and Nicholsâ priorities diverged. McVeigh focused on his big bomb, whereas Nichols also developed plans to sell small packets of chemicals as bomb-making kits. McVeigh was not much interested in developing a profitable business, but Nichols was.
At the end of October and beginning of November they planned the robbery Roger Moore, which was then carried out on November 5. McVeigh was in New York, establishing a good alibi and liquidating his recently deceased fatherâs property. Nichols went to Arkansas to manage the robbery. McVeighâs friend Michael Fortier, based on his own later discussions with McVeigh, understood that a major motivation for the robbery was to enrich Nichols. McVeigh himself told the authors of American Terrorist that the robbery was not motivated by his own need for money to prepare the Oklahoma City bombing (Michel and Herbeck, American Terrorist, pgs 175-176).
After the robbery, McVeigh was furious that Moore had not been murdered. His fury apparently disrupted his friendship and collaboration with Nichols, who now reverted to his original plan to move to Cebu City. After stashing the loot in warehouses, he returned to Las Vegas on November 16 to part with his son Josh. He stayed with him and his ex-wife Lana Padilla for about two weeks. Every morning McVeigh would phone the home and conduct a long conversation with Nichols.
On November 22, when Padilla drove Nichols to the airport, he gave her a package of materials and told her to open it and follow the instructions inside if he didnât return within 60 days. The instructions basically allocated Nicholsâ hidden property among McVeigh, Josh and Marife. Padilla opened the package after only a few days, read the instructions, and interpreted the entire circumstances to mean that Nichols had gone to the Philippines to reconcile with Marife and would kill himself if he failed.
If Padillaâs interpretation was correct, then Nichols apparently intended to convince Marife to drop out of school and return to the United States, arguing that he now had enough money there to establish a profitable business. But why should she believe him? He perhaps took along a lot of cash to show her, maybe several thousand dollars. In order to convince her to drop out of school and leave the Philippines again, though, he had to convince her he could turn that cash into a permanently profitable business. This situation suggests the possibility that Nichols counted on someone in the Philippines helping him convince Marife that there really would be such a business.
Perhaps, however, Padillaâs interpretation was not correct. When she opened the package, she had no idea that Nichols had been collaborating with McVeigh in a plan to blow up a federal office building on the next April 19. She had no idea that Nichols therefore had a very strong motivation to stay in the Philippines past that date. After that, if necessary, he would be prepared to fake his death, disappearing into a new identity as an international explosives dealer, secretly known to have a rare ability to predict explosions. If McVeigh did succeed in blowing up the federal building and escaping detection, then their international business relationship might develop further, based on the resources that Nichols had left for McVeigh in Las Vegas.
The 60-day period that Nichols stated to Padilla was certainly flexible. In case he did somehow die in the Philippines, that particular period fit with his visa, airline tickets, and the storage rentals. Otherwise he could easily extend that period by phoning Padilla and by extending his visa, tickets, and storage rentals. Certainly his visa was no real problem, since he was staying with his Philippine wife and child. If necessary, he could easily extend this period all the way into April.
Likewise, though, he might have wanted to shorten the 60-day period. If Nichols managed to arrange his situation in the Philippines more quickly, he might want McVeigh to take away all Nicholsâ things as soon as possible. Nichols would want his last association with McVeigh to be as far in time as possible from April 19. The possibility of an early decision along those lines might be related to McVeighâs phone call on December 16, asking for news about Nichols.
===========
Nichols arrived in Cebu City on November 23, 1994. In the following days, the three main members of Al Qaedaâs terrorist cell in Manila â Ramzi Yousef, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, and Wali Khan Amin Shah â all together flew from Manila to Cebu City, almost 400 miles. There on about the last day of the month they blew up a bomb in a generator room of a shopping mall. They then flew back to Manila and blew up a bomb in a movie theater on December 1.
On December 11, Ramzi Yousef boarded a Philippine airliner and flew to Cebu City. During that flight he planted a bomb underneath his seat. After he disembarked in Cebu City, the plane flew on toward Tokyo, and the bomb exploded over the ocean but the airplane nevertheless managed to land in Okinawa. (Ressa, Seeds of Terror, pages 30-31) The inadequate explosion certainly would have compelled Yousef to consider other sources for better explosive materials.
============
On December 23, McVeigh was rear-ended in a traffic accident near Saginaw, Michigan. The accident scared McVeigh, because he had two boxes of blasting caps in the trunk of his car, wrapped up like Christmas presents. Wrapped up for shipment to the Philippines?
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/07/2004 1:26:12 AM ||
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Thailand's embassy in Sweden has received a letter threatening the Southeast Asian country with attacks like those on Spain in retaliation for sending troops to Iraq, Thai and Swedish officials said on Wednesday. "Since Thailand has cooperated with U.S.A., the Satan's states, and have interfered in the concern of Iraq by sending 443 Thai soldiers to the occupied land, we have our duty to inform you that Thailand is one of our targets after Spain," reads the letter, in ungrammatical English and dated March 31.
Tap..tap, nope.
The Swedish Foreign Ministry confirmed the text of the letter, which concludes with the Muslim phrase "Insha Allah" or "God be willing" and the phrase: "Peace be upon those who follow the guidance." Thai officials said it was signed with the Arabic name Al Bashir al-Makkawi. "We are aware of this and we are working on it," said a senior officer at Sweden's Sapo security police. "An investigation is under way into where it came from and who sent the letter," Bengt Berglund, an inspector at Stockholm police's diplomatic unit, told Reuters. It was the first such threat reported by any embassy in Stockholm since the March 11 Madrid train bombings that killed 191 people, Berglund said. Thailand has about 440 medical and engineering troops in the southern Iraqi city of Kerbala, 60 miles south of Baghdad, but the Thai Foreign Ministry said that they were not involved in military operations. In Bangkok, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra told reporters Thai troops were only in Iraq for humanitarian reasons. "I can assure you that nothing will happen. Muslims know that Thais go there to help them, not to kill them," he said.
Sigh, it doesn't matter, Thaksin. You're helping rebuild Iraq, the fundis don't want rebuilt. Ergo, you're a target.
Two Thai soldiers were killed in a truck bomb attack in Kerbala in December last year. The deaths shocked many Thais and sparked criticism that the government had failed to explain to the public the risks of deploying troops, even on a humanitarian mission, to Iraq. Bangkok has forged closer ties with Washington since the arrest in Thailand last year of Hambali, the suspected mastermind of the 2002 Bali bombings and operations chief for the al Qaeda-linked militant group, Jemaah Islamiah.
And right there is another reason you're a target.
Thailand and the United States have been sharing intelligence on a spate of violence in Thailand's largely Muslim south, where about 60 people have been killed since January. Thai security officials blame Muslim separatists, renegade officials and local mafias for the violence. But some senior officials have said they suspected the local separatists might have received support from foreign militant groups.
Ya don't think?
Posted by: Steve ||
04/07/2004 12:43:04 PM ||
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Well, now we know what the explosives are for.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 13:05 Comments ||
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Indonesian Islamic militants taught dozens of Abu Sayyaf recruits how to make bombs that could be set off by mobile phones and other terror skills while dodging helicopters and troops in a jungle camp last year, a former hostage says. About 40 men completed the bomb-making course and a 60-strong batch was taught sniping and combat techniques from late 2002 to the middle of 2003 by the two unidentified Indonesians, who officials believed were members of the al-Qaeda-linked Jemaah Islamiah terror network, longtime hostage Roland Ulah told The Associated Press. Other former hostages disclosed seeing two Arab nationals who met Abu Sayyaf chieftain Khaddafy Janjalani and stayed with the guerrillas for about a month in 2001 on southern Basilan island, where the rebels had a strong presence until they were crippled and displaced by US-backed assaults.
The witness accounts by Ulah, 44, and other ex-hostages interviewed by The Associated Press on Monday provide a glimpse into clandestine terror training by suspected Jemaah Islamiah militants and their links to Filipino rebels in the southern Philippines, home to this predominantly Roman Catholic nation's Muslim minority. "They were taught sniping, combat, taekwando and dismantling bombs and making bombs that could be set off using cell phones and alarm clocks," said Ulah, who escaped from the Abu Sayyaf last June after more than three years of jungle captivity on southern Jolo island. The training started with a dawn jog capped by an Arabic reading of the Quran, the Muslim holy book, and prayers led by the Indonesians, who spoke a smattering of Tagalog, English and Arabic. Their yells of "Allahu Akbar," or God is Great, echoed through the jungle as they trained, Ulah said. The Indonesians taught the young guerrillas, mostly recruits from Jolo and the nearby island of Basilan, how to safely open mortar rounds or unexploded bombs dropped by Philippine air force planes then picked up by villagers, who sold them to the rebels. The explosives could be rigged as timed bombs or their powder could be used to make separate bombs, he said.
Breaking into smaller groups, the recruits were taught how to make bombs that could be remotely detonated using mobile phones or alarm clocks. Such bombs, made using soldering irons and other electrical equipment, were detonated in the jungle, he said. The recruits were taught to use the locally available M16 and M14 rifles as well as the grenade-firing M203, aiming at red targets on trees, he said. The training occasionally was disrupted by approaching troops. "Sometimes a Sikorsky (helicopter) would fly over and everybody would run for cover to avoid being seen. After it passed, they would resume training again," Ulah said. The training, mostly at an encampment on Mount Buod Bagsak, in Jolo's coastal town of Patikul, was witnessed by three other former captives, including a sailor who escaped last year and told military interrogators the trainers were fellow Indonesians.
Janjalani left Jolo aboard boats with the two Indonesians and about 40 of the newly trained guerrillas a month before he escaped, Ulah said. The military, sometimes helped by US surveillance planes, has been hunting Janjalani since then, officials said. Ulah and four other hostages surfaced Monday to identify some of six alleged Abu Sayyaf guerrillas who reportedly were planning Madrid-style bombings in Manila. Ulah was kidnapped in April 2000 with 20 Western tourists and Asian workers from Malaysia's Sipadan resort, where he was a handyman. The other hostages were ransomed off. Now under a government witness protection program, Ulah said he was helping the government prosecute the guerrillas so they would not be able to destroy innocent people's lives.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/07/2004 12:51:25 AM ||
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Day after nuclear inspector ElBaradei left, Tehran announces plan to start new reactor in June for weapons-grade plutonium production. Diplomats in Vienna report heightened concern.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
04/07/2004 2:54:41 PM ||
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Heightened concern, would that be yellow or orange? Or just an extra martini?
I'm thinking that one day we will look back on the Blixs, ElBaradeis, Kofis and Kerrys and recognize them for the utter fools they were.
Posted by: john ||
04/07/2004 19:26 Comments ||
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#2
Yeah, but by that time we'll be radioactive.
Posted by: Michael ||
04/07/2004 19:36 Comments ||
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Teheran Black Turbans Press Release: "We are going to start the new reactor in June for weapons-grade plutonium production."
Black Turbans to each other: "Keep the Infidel Americans occupied in Iraq with Sadr and his merry men while we crank this baby up. ElBaradei is soft putty in our hands, Allah be praised."
USAF targeting mission planner: "Hey Jim, got the latest intel summary on Bushehr in yet?"
"Yeah, Bob. Israeli agents just handed over a nice fat data file with the latest from their boys on the ground. Should give you everything else you need to part this baby out."
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/07/2004 20:26 Comments ||
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Iran is to start work in June on constructing a heavy water reactor that could be used as part of a fuel cycle to produce bomb-grade plutonium, diplomats said in Vienna. "Iran is to announce soon that it will be beginning work in June on a heavy water research reactor in Arak," 200 kilometres south-west of Tehran, a diplomat close to the Vienna-based International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said. IAEA director-general Mohamed ElBaradei returned to Vienna on Wednesday from Tehran, where he had hammered out an agreement for Iran to adhere to a timetable to finally answer charges it is trying secretly to develop nuclear weapons.
They agreed on a time for the next meeting to discuss the minutes of the last meeting which they disagreed on.
They're fixin' to get ready to make plans to coordinate for a meeting to discuss whether they should take part in a session...
The reactor to be built at Arak would not be in violation of safeguards which the IAEA enforces under the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), the diplomat said.
I guess this falls under the Reactor Of Peace subsection of the treaty. Islamic nations only need apply.
But he said it could send a bad political signal at a time the international community is calling on Iran to fully cooperate with the IAEA in proving its nuclear program is strictly peaceful, as Tehran claims. "This is not an accident," the diplomat said, referring to the fact that construction is to begin in June, the same month the IAEA will hold a board of governors meeting on Iran.
More like a slap.
Iran has said the Arak reactor would be for research and the production of radioisotopes for medical and industrial use.
"We're developing a system to treat cancer on a large scale, a whole city at a time."
Iran told the IAEA, according to an agency report last November, that "it had tried to acquire a reactor from abroad to replace" a 30-year-old research reactor in Tehran. But due to sanctions, Iran was not able to buy a new reactor, and so wanted to build one of its own.
I'm sure there's a section of the koran with plans for one. It's right after the section on building mud huts in a earthquake zone.
The diplomat said, however, that the heavy water reactor, which would run on natural uranium, could produce depleted uranium which could then be reprocessed into plutonium.
"Not that we plan on doing that, trust us."
Posted by: Steve ||
04/07/2004 9:47:06 AM ||
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I'm sure that if we haven't already targeted the Israeli's have. It's just a mtter of when they do it.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
04/07/2004 10:22 Comments ||
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IAEA chief optimistic on Iran probe
By Gareth Smyth Mohamed ElBaradei, secretary-general of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), said yesterday that inspectors could "complete their work" in Iran before he reported back to the IAEA board in June. Whew! Iâve been worried the Black Hats might impede his work and prevent him from completing it before the IAEA Board meeting in June.
"We still have important tasks ahead of this," he told reporters. "[But] I see no reason not to be optimistic." And itâs good to know he sees no reason not to be optimistic [though], despite the important tasks ahead, uh, of this, um, something.
Mr ElBaradei said he and Iranian officials had agreed "an action plan with a timetable on how to move forward with the main outstanding issues". "We will move forward with the outstanding issues now that we have an action plan, complete with timetable," a direct result of an agreement with some irrelevant Iranian Officials, he said. I feel so relieved. No, really I do. Heh. Deep Stuff.
Posted by: .com ||
04/07/2004 12:39:01 AM ||
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#1
Mohamed ElBaradei in UN terms seems to be quite a cracker jack when dealing with Iran. He and McGoo are UN peas in a pod. So ElBaradei is a what, a nuclear engineer? So's Jimmy Carter (sort of) but what does that do when dealing with the likes of Iran? Nuttin. He probably can't even drive a fucking car. Chine
#2
In time we will learn the Ayatollah has been giving Elbaradei and Kofi Annan's idiot son OIL CONTRACTS and other valuables via the UN's little known OIL for NUKES program.
Oh, please! A garden slug comes closer to being a NucE than that guy does. Here's a short biography. As far as I can tell, the spineless bubblehead has NO experience in nuclear-anything, but lots of experience in groveling, shuffling and bending over.
#5
Mohamed ElBaradei is a useless figurehead. As an Egyptian citizen, he has yet to mention his own country's covert nuclear weapons program (as revealed by Libya).
In light of this finding, how are we supposed to take any action (or lack thereof) by him seriously when it comes to Iran? ElBaradei seems to echo the popular Middle East sentiment that all Arab countries are obliged to build atomic bombs as a counterbalance against Israel's possession of them.
The last time I checked, Israel had yet to declare its intention of annihilating any or all Arab countries. Iran and other Arab factions still openly proclaim their intent to seek Israel's obliteration. Permitting Arab countries to maintain nuclear arsenals will do absolutely nothing vis promoting peace and shall instead cause the most dangerous scenario since the Cold War's end.
If Moktada al-Sadr has chosen a grand mosque in this Euphrates River town for a last stand against U.S. troops, as many of his militiamen have claimed in recent days, he appears to be relying more on the will of God than anything like military discipline to protect him.
Many hundreds of militiamen in the black outfits of Sadrâs Mahdi Army have been visible recently on roads approaching the golden-domed mosque and inside the sprawling compound leading to the inner sanctuary. But they seemed unmarshaled, at least to the laymanâs eye - more milling about than militant.
A reporter and photographer for The New York Times had a rare - and unplanned - opportunity to see Sadrâs battle troops up close on Tuesday. A drive of 160 kilometers, or 100 miles, from Baghdad for a supposed news conference by Sadr ended up with no news conference, and a handful of the newspaperâs Baghdad staff, including drivers, security guards and an interpreter, detained for nearly eight hours. They were suspected, their captors said, of being Special Forces operatives or intelligence agents for the United States, Spain or Israel.
But before and after being driven away blindfolded to a makeshift prison deep in the semidesert landscape outside Kufa, the visitors were left under loose guard at the mosqueâs main entrance and, for about an hour, inside the courtyard. There, seething antagonism for Westerners blended with a haphazard, almost chaotic approach to maintaining control.
Hundreds of worshipers made their way into the mosque past groups of men with Kalashnikov rifles, rocket-propelled grenades and a variety of bayonets and knives. Along with weapons, the constants among the men were religious fervor and loyalty to Sadr. Many wore black headbands inscribed in yellow with Shiite religious tenets, black turbans or the common red-and-black checkered kaffiyeh headdresses.
Some of the militiamen were in their 50s and 60s, but most were young, some no more than 12 or 13. Weapons training among them appeared virtually nonexistent; Kalashnikovs with loaded magazines and safety catches off were nonchalantly waved in the air.
Pinned to their robes were photographs of Sadr, a 31-year-old bushy-bearded cleric, and of his father, who was assassinated by agents of Saddam Hussein in 1999.
Hatred for the United States was pervasive. One man of about 25 thrust a long-bladed knife into an imaginary belly, telling his companions, "This is what I will do to the American infidels when they enter here." Another man approached a reporter, asked his citizenship, and turned away to spit and grind his boot on the courtyard floor. "This is our message to Bush and Blair," he said.
If Sadr was anywhere around, there was no sign of special protection for him. But there were signs of preparations for a siege.
In the early afternoon, vehicles pulled up to the mosque and unloaded cardboard boxes full of food. Later, several ambulances unloaded boxes of medical supplies, labeled in English as containing bandages, cotton wool and syringes. Some were marked with Christian inscriptions in English, suggesting that they originally came from Christian medical charities operating in Iraq.
Vehicles came and went, among them white-and-blue patrol cars and pickup trucks supplied by the United States to Iraqâs new U.S.-trained police force, filled with some of the heavily armed militiamen who took control of Kufa on Sunday.
In the end, Sadrâs security officials returned most of the equipment they had seized from the visitors, minus several flak jackets, two satellite telephones and the weapons used by armed escorts who sometimes accompany reporters for The Times on trips outside Baghdad, where drive-by shootings and ambushes are common.
But the farewell handshakes at midnight outside the great wooden doors of the mosque followed an alarming journey out into the arid flatlands northwest of Kufa, during which the visitors were blindfolded and warned not to try to see where they were being taken. After an hour, and numerous stops along deserted tracts, the vehicle drew up beside a stark cinder-block building.
There, for nearly six hours, the visitors were held in a concrete-floored room furnished with rough mats and a handful of blankets. They were watched by about five young men with Kalashnikovs that were leveled, fingers on triggers, whenever they entered or approached the buildingâs rusting metal door.
As night fell, the militiamen and several of the detained Iraqis became visibly more nervous, and tensions rose as all of the detainees pondered what might happen to them if U.S. troops began a nighttime assault on the mosque in an effort to capture Sadr. The most difficult moment came when aircraft were heard overhead - at one point, a high-flying jet, at another a low-flying turboprop that sounded like a Predator drone, the pilotless craft used by U.S. forces for battlefield surveillance. After perhaps 10 minutes, the drone sound faded, leaving only the hum of traffic passing on a distant highway.
The group of detained men slept fitfully and were awakened by the sound of an approaching car. The security officials who had arrested them came through the door, smiling broadly. "Everything is O.K. now," they said, without further explanation. "You can go home."
As the detainees were taken back to the mosque, the driver, who said his name was Khadem, gave a hint of his thinking. With magnesium flares fired by militia outposts lighting the night sky outside Kufa, the man explained how he had spent two years in prison under Saddam for belonging to a banned Shiite party. But when he was asked if he had welcomed the U.S. forces who toppled Saddam almost exactly a year ago, as many Shiites did, he turned suddenly combative.
"It was God who finished Saddam, not the Americans," declared the man, who said he was 40 and a graduate of a technical college. "The Americans broke all their promises to us, and they have brought their infidel beliefs to Iraq. We hate them, and they are worse than Saddam."
My unit, the 16th En Bn of the 1st AD, covers Sadr City and the bulk of the most intense areas of downtown, mostly east side of the Tigris. If you look at a map, pretty much everything north from the Palestine & Sheraton hotels north and east. My point is that my battalion is right in the middle of Sadrâs challenge.
snip
NONE OF THIS is the disaster bad news that you are seeing on CNN and others. Let me give you perhaps one of the best examples. A police station that we covered and set up last summer in Al-Shawla made the news yesterday because, SHOCKINGLY!!! it was attacked by two RPGs. Now, Amy, here is the reality....
Last summer that very police station was HIT 2-3 times every damn night for 20 consecutive days while my battalion and the 2nd LCR were working to secure it. In this current crisis, it wasnât even hit -- the RPGs flew over the bldg, and there were only 2 fired in one night.
and he goes on to slap the western reporters
Posted by: Carl in NH ||
04/07/2004 10:00:55 PM ||
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#1
Aha! Just as I thought! It's a disasterous quagmire... of bad reporting and agenda-grinding.
Some countries have very weird laws about sex. For instance, in many Middle Eastern countries it is prohibited to eat the sheep you had sex with. A person who decided to eat this sheep is making a deadly sin, and he will never get into paradise with 70 virgins.
Basting the Thanksgiving turkey is fine. Basting the sheep internally is not. Not sure whatâs supposed to be âweirdâ about this...
#1
Does it say in the Koran that the virgins have to be human. Just wondered.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
04/07/2004 20:28 Comments ||
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#2
however, in the name of "honor", you may kill and eat a woman you just had sex with....it's the Islamic Wayâ¢
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/07/2004 20:41 Comments ||
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#3
Isn't the sheep restriction part of shariah?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 20:45 Comments ||
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#4
Hmmmm. This comes from Pravda.ru - better scan your machine with Ad Aware - and a stiff Scotch to make sure no virii hang out in your brain. Dunno 'bout sheep sex preventing eating them... Islamicity.com's English Qu'uran topic list doesn't cover beastiality... Now maybe they're a tad more forthcoming in the Arabic version, heh.
#5
I've heard this before. BTW AFAIK there are no restrictions on eating the melon. You have been warned!
Posted by: Phil B ||
04/07/2004 20:54 Comments ||
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#6
Just buy the sheep a nice bouquet to eat. There's no market for animal snuff flicks.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/07/2004 20:56 Comments ||
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#7
I don't know whats more disturbing to me right now....somebody eating a sheep that was the local sex machine, or American Idol featuring Barry Manilow later this month.
Both make me ill.
Saw a photo in passing on Yahoo and had to post the caption. Big Wow! and Oh, boy!
Members of the Iraqi special forces, a unit formed by Kurdish peshmergas, walk throught the outskirts of Fallujah, Iraq , Wednesday, April 7, 2004, for a joint patrol with U.S. Marines of the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment. (AP Photo/Murad Sezer) Probably donât have to worry too much about these guys.
#4
The vast numbers of Kurdish peshmergas are on our side resulting from being brutalized by Saddam Ba'athists and just about everyone else calling themselves 'Iraqis' (whatever that means these days.)
The Kurds should have their own nation when this over. The ultimate prize for assisting US in ridding the world of the Mahdimania jihad boys.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
04/08/2004 1:11 Comments ||
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FALLUJAH, Iraq - U.S. Marines observed anti-Coalition Forces today firing from the Haj Musheen Abdul Aziz Az-Kubaysi mosque complex in Fallujah. In order to gain access to the compound housing the mosque, Marines used air support to breach a wall located several hundred yards away from the actual mosque structure. One anti-Coalition force member was killed in the attack. There is no report of civilian casualties.
Marines on the ground observed no damage to the mosque. The anti-coalition forces firing from the mosque wrongfully violated the law of war by conducting offensive military operations from a protected structure. As a result, the mosque lost its protected status and therefore became a lawful military target. Nevertheless, the Marines only targeted the wall surrounding the compound in order to prevent damage to the mosque.
Initial reports indicate a platoon-size force was firing RPGs and small arms from fortified battle positions inside of and on top of the mosque. Following the strike, Marines also recovered a fully functional mortar from inside the compound.
This mosque was repeatedly used as a base to target Iraqi and Coalition forces throughout the day. The breach of the wall was a graduated response to the threat.
I Marine Expeditionary Force will continue to employ precision weaponry in order to protect lives of non-combatants, private property, medical facilities, and religious structures in accordance with the law of war.
U.S. begins to reconstruct firefight with militia
Nicholas Riccardi and Alissa J. Rubin
Los Angeles Times
Apr. 6, 2004 12:00 AM
BAGHDAD - It turned nasty Sunday afternoon.
A U.S. military patrol was navigating the pitted streets of the Baghdad slum that is the stronghold of firebrand cleric Muqtada al-Sadr when it ran into about 30 members of the clericâs personal army.
But instead of laying down their arms as ordered, militia members showered the Americans with small-arms fire, pipe bombs and rocket-propelled grenades.
The echoes of gunfire raining down from the rooftops sent Iraqi police fleeing their precincts and forced the American patrol to duck into an abandoned building. Two other patrols wound their way into the heart of the slum, and they were attacked almost simultaneously on all sides. Militiamen toppled market stalls into the narrow streets to create makeshift roadblocks.
It took more than four hours and a dozen tanks to quell the fighting. When the bullets finally stopped, dozens of Iraqis and eight U.S. soldiers were dead, with 40 more American troops wounded.
On Monday, military officials had only started to reconstruct the chaotic chain of events that led to what commanders said was the largest sustained fighting theyâd seen in Baghdad since President Bush declared an end to major combat in May.
"There is nothing more confusing, literally in the entire universe, than an ambush, especially one where the buildings and the road networks are so narrow," said Maj. Gen. Martin Dempsey, commander of the 1st Armored Division, which is based in Baghdad. "Youâre not exactly certain whether youâre being shot at by three people or 33." snip
The militiaâs occupation of police stations was the reason why the U.S. patrols rolled into Sadr City in the first place.
U.S. military officials had heard that the clericâs followers in the holy city of Najaf, 80 miles south of Baghdad, had attacked a coalition base during a protest at about noon Sunday.
They said they also discovered through intelligence that Sadr was directing his followers in the capital to seize police stations and government buildings. U.S. officials sent in troops to watch the buildings and disarm militia members.
The first ambush killed about four soldiers and injured several others, officials said. Outnumbered, the soldiers fell back nearly 1,000 feet to an abandoned building and dug in there, Dempsey said.
Over the next 2 1/2 hours, quick-response forces with Bradley fighting vehicles rolled into the area, only to be pinned down by heavy fire from black-clad militia members hiding on rooftops and in alleyways, officials said. One armored personnel vehicle and one truck were destroyed, and casualties mounted.
American troops managed to reach their wounded and began pulling them out.
Military officials said they got an unexpected assist from some Iraqi civilians who offered their cars and, in one instance, a bus to take wounded troops to safety.
#3
As I keep saying . . . there's a lot of friendlies in Iraq. This is no "Intifada" or "general uprising" or "Tet offensive"--I don't give a bridge in Massachusetts what Ted Kennedy says.
To our boys in the thick of it: good luck, good hunting, and come home safe.
Posted by: Mike ||
04/07/2004 17:46 Comments ||
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#4
Mike, in the Tet offensive the North Vietnamese thought the South would rise up, they did not. The Viet Cong were slaughtered and broken as a force. The only thing the North gained was a political victory.
This very well might be a replay of all of that, but the political victory is less likely. Still watch who goes wobbly and who stands firm.
#5
I dunno, it is beginning to look like the Tet -- massive losses for the bad guys, no general uprising like they expected, and the press and traitorous politicians trying to turn it into a defeat.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 18:25 Comments ||
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#6
R.C. This is where the Administration needs to get out there in front of the public and tell them what is happening and tell the truth. (That is why they get the big bucks!)
I watched a little bit of Rummey's Q&A today and it looked like the press there was not very interested -- as if they had already made up their minds what to print and were only looking for 'spicy stuff' (hense the tone of their questions...).
Another difference is that there was no Internet (that we know of...) 30 years ago. The press no longer completely controls news content for a large segment of the population.
#7
It's like Tet in another way. Some maintain that Giap wanted the VC beaten up good, to pave the way for the North to take over the South without the VC in the way.
Sistani is holding his militia in the wings, waiting for Sadr to get decimated, and leaving him the armed Shia power.
#8
Chuck, after this, I'm not sure that any armed shia power is going to be tolerated. I just saw a Rasmussen poll that showed Bush dropping. Probably no big deal at this point. Nevertheless, W has to win this fight. He has about 2 months to get it done...for real this time.
Posted by: remote man ||
04/07/2004 19:36 Comments ||
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Al-Najaf, Iraq; 7 April 2004 (RFE/RL) -- Iraq's top Shi'ite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, has condemned the way the U.S.-led coalition is dealing with an upsurge of fighting between U.S. troops and insurgents in Iraq, and he called for calm on all sides.
That's it?
A statement issued by al-Sistani's office in Al-Najaf today called for problems to be resolved peacefully, and for "abstaining from any provocative steps which will lead to more chaos and bloodshed."
Pretty weak statement. If it is from Sistani, and not his staff, he's waiting to see which way the battle goes.
Shi'a militiamen loyal to another cleric, Muqtada al-Sadr, have been fighting U.S. and coalition troops in several Iraqi cities since 4 April. The fighting has left at least 150 people dead. Al-Sistani is regarded as Iraq's most influential Shi'a cleric. His statement today did not refer to al-Sadr by name.
"He's dead to me."
Posted by: Steve ||
04/07/2004 3:54:59 PM ||
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#1
This Khomeini lookalike should be presented with three choices: lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.
#2
ITYM, "lead, follow, or be buried in a very small Ziploc bag".
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 16:16 Comments ||
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#3
Pfft. Clerics staying out of the way of politics works just fine for me.
Let Sistani keep on being vague and uttering weak generic statements in favour of peace. Any cleric who doesn't interfere is an ally in the creation of a secular Iraq.
#5
I'd have to go with Liberalhawk and Aris Katsaris, here. We're not exactly in a position to protect Sistani from al Sadr's negative attentions. Not to mention that if we went into Najaf with guns blazing, we could just as easily kill Sistani in the collateral damage. This is one guy who actually *is* a cleric, as opposed to the usual run of gangster, political activist, or entrepreneur. He no doubt wants to be left alone, and the increasing level of irritation shown in his statements seem to reflect that sentiment.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
04/07/2004 16:41 Comments ||
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#6
Well if Sister Marie doesn't like it then throw that fuck in jail too. Tired of these don't take a side asshats.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
04/07/2004 16:45 Comments ||
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#7
Aris--
Excellent comment.
But a secular Iraq is too much to hope for anytime soon. Don't know if these guys can handle it--and if they can't, then what's next?
#8
"Well if Sister Marie doesn't like it then throw that fuck in jail too. Tired of these don't take aside asshats."
so says someone behind a keyboard, somewhere in North America, I presume. Would you be so brave sitting in Sistani's office in Najaf, surrounding by Sadr's loonies waving their AK 47s and RPG's??
1. Sistani has been a target of Sadr's thugs before, for being "too moderate".
2. Sistani is in a town rife with the Mahdi Sadr thugs now.
Ergo: Sistani is not able to freely speak his mind without risking his life.
I would have expected nothing less from him, nor anything more than the waffling appeal for peace.
We need to get a Spec Ops team in there to protect him, and then put in a battalion of the 75th Rangers to provide security to move him out (If they thought the Marines were tough, wait till they meet the Rangers).
Then put him on the bullhorn (TV, Radio, Newspapers) and let him hang Sadr out to dry.
Why would Sistani do this? It would cement his position as *the* Shia Leader for Iraq, plus paint him as a "moderate", and add an enormous amount of public pressure on the US to back him politically whether we like him or not. This ensures he will be a major force in the new government.
And on top of that, it insures the destruction of his opposition - the most radical fringe, which makes it even easier for Sistani to control all Shia by pointing out what happened to Sadr's people.
And he scores bonus points with the public in Iraq and the world by pointing out that Sadr "teamed with *spit* Sunnis and Iranian Agents" and put children and women in the line of fire.
Sistani has a lot of political gain here if he can get to a place where he can speak out - and time it right. I hope he is as "wise" as he apears to be.
IN the short run, its good for the US. I'm not so sure in the long run though - but for Sistani, its all good if he can do the things I outlined.
#10
Wouldn't it be nice if Sistani and Sadr's boys got into a big fight and just happened to kill both Sis and Sad. The leadership gets capped and the US can't be blamed. Hey, I can dream can't I!
Posted by: remote man ||
04/07/2004 17:26 Comments ||
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#11
I'm with Spook and 'Hawk on this one. Sistani is one of the friendlies--he may have his differences of opinion with us, but he's no enemy. I'm willing to cut the guy a bit of slack, if only because he's surrounded by blackshirts with AKs.
Posted by: Mike ||
04/07/2004 17:44 Comments ||
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#12
Old Spook,
That is some of the the first "think two moves ahead, grasshooper" analysis I have seen over my entire search of the blogs this afternoon...
#13
Old Spook, I like your analysis, and I know Sistani is not a dummy, but I am still sceptical he will actually play it that intelligently.
Hope I'm wrong.
Posted by: Carl in N.H ||
04/07/2004 18:08 Comments ||
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#14
Sistani might be the smartest cleric in Iraq today. He's very smooth, very sharp, and plays the political game very well by both Middle Eastern and American standards. We want him on our side, and Old Spook has got it right -- get him, protect him, and strike a deal with him.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/07/2004 18:15 Comments ||
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#17
"Well if Sister Marie doesn't like it then throw that fuck in jail too. Tired of these don't take aside asshats."
so says someone behind a keyboard, somewhere in North America, I presume. Would you be so brave sitting in Sistani's office in Najaf, surrounding by Sadr's loonies waving their AK 47s and RPG's??
I didn't realize that was the situation. I take it then that the enemy of my enemy is my friend? I just have a basic suspicion about any Ayotollah. However thanks for the enlightenment. That is why Rantburg is so good. Facts and nothing but the facts
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
04/07/2004 18:25 Comments ||
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#18
Capsu,
Its all part of the Daito-Ryu approach to Intel work.
See where your adversary is, see where his momentum is carrying him, and redirect him via his own nature and momentum to where he cannot harm you, and be there before he is there. And if you are really good at it, you will do it in a way that doesn't permanently damage your adversary either.
Problem is that this kind of thinking and action is not easily grasped by someone without the training and mindset, nor someone who has not conquered his ego enough to let himself win and let others take the credit. Real operators will know what I'm talking about.
This guy Sadr doesnt understand thinking ahead, is too powered by anger and his own lust for power, and thats why his "Army" is out there being chopped to pieces by US and Coalition troops, and will soon be abandoned by the society there.
With no sea to swim in, the Mahdi will soon flop around like fish on dry land - as long as we keep the pressure up and accept6 the casualties (which will become less and less on our side as time goes on).
Sistani can take advantage of this if we can point out to him the leverage he now has - and we can get himto safe haven -- but to be really effective we have to make it look like he did it himself with the help of Iraqi interim police and Iraqi Army forces.
Look for Jordanians to help out very quietly - they have some pros they can put in there that would be very effective.
#19
OldSpook: Would the majority of Iraqis be suspicious of Sistani's leadership if he is protected by US forces as you outlined? Would they consider him a "puppet" and write him off?
#20
Old Spook---Great insights! Always 2-3 steps ahead of the situation. You would have made a great instrument pilot. That is what it takes to stay alive in the air or ground, heh heh.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/07/2004 20:05 Comments ||
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#21
I dont mean to say that Sistani is the greatest thing since sliced bread. As old spook says, in the long run strengthening Sistani may not be so great - the jury is still out on whether he really "gets" democracy, or just sees at as a way to a theocracy only somewhat more moderate than Irans. But he definitely seems to understand cause and effect, and is interested in dealing, at least in the short run. We definitely want him on our side, though we also dont want to pay too much to get him on our side.
But I dont see him as an enemy cause hes not coming out squarely for us now. Last reports DO put him in Najaf, and if Sadrs men arent right outside the door, its still quite dangerous.
#22
Alaska, I was instrument rated at one time. Let it lapse. No twin turbine for me to fly, at least not anymore. Now, Im just a PPSE-L. With a lot of hours in the logbook (and some undocumented hours).
Still wonder what it would be like to fly a seaplane - those Otters sure do look cool.
A US air strike has killed as many as 40 people inside a mosque compound during heavy fighting in the Sunni Muslim Iraqi town of Falluja. A US Marine colonel said the strike targeted insurgents who had fired on US troops from inside the mosque compound. Five US Marines were wounded by gunfire from within the compound, the US military said. The incident came as coalition troops fought separate uprisings by both Sunni and Shia Muslims in several towns. Hospital and military sources in Falluja say that more than 100 Iraqis have been killed in the town since Tuesday. At least 35 coalition troops have also been killed in Iraq in the last three days, including 12 US Marines in a single attack in the town of Ramadi on Tuesday. It is the worst escalation of fighting since the war to topple Saddam Hussein ended a year ago.
In Falluja, a reporter for the Associated Press saw cars carrying the dead and wounded from the Abdul-Aziz al-Samarrai mosque, following the US air strike. The US Marine colonel said his troops attacked the mosque complex because Sunni insurgents were using the site to fire on US forces with small arms and rocket-propelled grenades. "If they use the mosque as a military machine, then itâs no longer a house of worship and we strike," said Lt Col Brennan Byrne. Col Byrne said an attack helicopter fired a missile at the site before another aircraft dropped a laser-guided bomb. Witnesses said the attack destroyed part of the wall of the compound. Guess what sportsfans? You played dirty and now the gloves are off. If you turn a house of religion into a military base, itâs no longer a Mosque, itâs a target. Have fun worshiping in your rubble.
Posted by: Michael ||
04/07/2004 15:56 Comments ||
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#2
The Iraqis need to understand some basic lessons about separation of church and state. If you inseparably fuse your military and religious activities, they and their sites both become indistinguishable as targets.
We have demonstrated admirable restraint in the face of none shown by our opponents. Their barbaric acts have mandated more indiscriminate policy in target selection. Sadr's faction must not acquire any political sway in Iraq's rebuilding. They have already proven themselves unworthy of trust and lacking in all military honor. Absent those essential elements of wartime functionality, we are obliged to exterminate them like the vermin they are.
#3
I think it is time to give the MOAB its baptism. It is time to show the Arab World just what this nation can do if it is trully pissed. The best why in the long run to fuck these people over is to cut off their money and that means not buying any of their oil, thank you very much. Either that or simply sieze the oil fields and make this about the oil. Let them stew in the 12th century. Sometimes I have evil dreams. I see a flight of KC-135s and KC-10s coming in low over Mecca their refueling tanks filled with lard oil and it sprays from the booms as they pass over head
#4
I have yet to see a compelling reason for American forces to become indiscriminate in how we target the Iraqi insurgents. We have high precision ordnance to take out the real baddies without snuffing too many bystanders.
If Iraqi insurgents come out firing from behind women or children, our troops must be instructed to fire directly back, no flinching. Absent that sort of morally leveraged threat, we just need to keep squashing them methodically.
Using religious means like pig fat is not so much a form of descending to their level, it's just being stupidly antagonistic. There's no need for that. We can kill these turds the old fashioned way and they'll stay deader longer.
#5
Zenster, I said it was a dream. It could never happen simply because the Air Force would never allow the refueling birds to be used that way. But if the ashats are out in the open and there are no civs around I really don't care how far the rubble bounces. We are in a war that started 25 years ago in Iran. It is a war not so much as against nation states but against an idea.
A U.S. military patrol was navigating the pitted streets of the Baghdad slum that is the stronghold of firebrand cleric Muqtada al-Sadr when it ran into about 30 members of the clericâs personal army. But instead of laying down their arms as ordered, militia members showered the Americans with small-arms fire, pipe bombs and rocket-propelled grenades. The echoes of gunfire raining down from the rooftops sent Iraqi police fleeing their precincts and forced the American patrol to duck into an abandoned building. Two other patrols wound their way into the heart of the slum, and they were attacked almost simultaneously on all sides. Militiamen toppled market stalls into the narrow streets to create makeshift roadblocks. It took more than four hours and a dozen tanks to quell the fighting. When the bullets finally stopped, dozens of Iraqis and eight U.S. soldiers were dead, with 40 more American troops wounded.
On Monday, military officials had only started to reconstruct the chaotic chain of events that led to what commanders said was the largest sustained fighting theyâd seen in Baghdad since President Bush declared an end to major combat in May. "There is nothing more confusing, literally in the entire universe, than an ambush, especially one where the buildings and the road networks are so narrow," said Maj. Gen. Martin Dempsey, commander of the 1st Armored Division, which is based in Baghdad. "Youâre not exactly certain whether youâre being shot at by three people or 33."
That was true for both the soldiers and the bystanders. On Sunday, Shakur Abdul Hussein, a 35-year-old engineer who had just finished the ritual washing of his hands to pray, was standing in a mosque courtyard in the heart of Sadr City, the slum named after Muqtada al-Sadrâs late, revered father. The empty streets suddenly echoed with gunfire. Moments later, a bullet ricocheted off a wall and sliced through Husseinâs chest, puncturing a lung. Monday morning, he lay on a narrow hospital bed, a tube in his chest, still trying to figure out what happened. "I thought the Americans were just trying to scare people and make them upset (by shooting in the streets)," Hussein said. "I had no idea (Sadrâs militia) had taken over police stations."
The militiaâs occupation of police stations was the reason why the U.S. patrols rolled into Sadr City in the first place. U.S. military officials had heard that the clericâs followers in the holy city of Najaf, 80 miles south of Baghdad, had attacked a coalition base during a protest at about noon Sunday. They said they also discovered through intelligence that Sadr was directing his followers in the capital to seize police stations and government buildings. U.S. officials sent in troops to watch the buildings and disarm militia members.
The first ambush killed about four soldiers and injured several others, officials said. Outnumbered, the soldiers fell back nearly 1,000 feet to an abandoned building and dug in there, Dempsey said.
Over the next 2 1/2 hours, quick-response forces with Bradley fighting vehicles rolled into the area, only to be pinned down by heavy fire from black-clad militia members hiding on rooftops and in alleyways, officials said. One armored personnel vehicle and one truck were destroyed, and casualties mounted. American troops managed to reach their wounded and began pulling them out. Military officials said they got an unexpected assist from some Iraqi civilians who offered their cars and, in one instance, a bus to take wounded troops to safety.
The fighting here started as a series of well-coordinated Iraqi ambushes of routine Marine patrols. It turned into a day of nonstop, house-to- house, roof-to-roof fighting with Marines at times surrounded and holding on desperately. It was a cacophony of fire for five or six hours, leaving the bodies of Iraqi attackers lying mangled in the dust, one with its head gone, but still clad in a vintage U.S.-made flak jacket.
Show that one on al-Jizz!
Marines stepped warily around the Iraqi bodies, looking for their own comrades. American Cobra and Chinook helicopters thumped overhead, and Bradley Fighting Vehicles rumbled on the roads. At least 12 Marines were killed here, and 30 others injured. Ten of those killed were in Echo Company, which was the first unit attacked in Ramadi. "They did a very heroic, very courageous job," the unitâs commander, Capt. Kelly Royer, said. The fierce daylong battle took place across this city of 420,000 people, 30 miles west of Fallujah, which is itself targeted and surrounded by coalition forces a week after four American civilian security guards there were killed, mutilated, burned and left hanging from a bridge. The ambushes were launched in bright daylight by what appeared to be four well-armed and coordinated groups of attackers in units of 10 to 15. Until yesterday, the recently arrived Marines in Ramadi said they had found two dozen makeshift bombs but encountered no open warfare, nothing like what erupted yesterday.
The patrolling Marines were slammed by M-16s, heavy machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and mortars. The attackers appeared acquainted with the Marinesâ patterns of patrol. The coalition forces responded with massive fire, armor and air support. Fighting raged around one street corner in particular and extended to other areas. At one point, Marines fought house-to-house, some even leaping from one rooftop to the next as they chased and caught some of the insurgents. As the fighting died off, at least four bodies were still lying in the dust while Americans went corpse-by-corpse looking first for their own. Near the decimated shell of a U.S. humvee lay the body of one attacker clad in what Royer called an "old-style" surplus U.S. flak jacket. An Iraqi man working for the Marines as a translator paced toward one of the bodies, kicked it, then turned away. This Sunni-dominated city lies along the Euphrates River. As part of the larger battle against anti-coalition forces, the Marines have set up a base here they call Camp Hurricane. By 2 oâclock this morning, the Marines of Echo Company, after a brief rest, were getting ready to set off again in search of the insurgents. "We are going to find these thugs, these terrorists, and we are going to destroy them," said Royer. Philly Inquirer, reg req.
#1
Near the decimated shell of a U.S. humvee lay the body of one attacker clad in what Royer called an "old-style" surplus U.S. flak jacket. An Iraqi man working for the Marines as a translator paced toward one of the bodies, kicked it, then turned away.
#2
If we build a giant DNA database of all the perps and corpses, eventually we could take a thug off the streets, sample him, compare his DNA to the database and have a pretty good idea if he is "in the family." Scary but cool.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/07/2004 14:46 Comments ||
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#3
The patrolling Marines were slammed by M-16s...
The battle to retake Fallouja began Tuesday where Marines least expected it: near a cluster of rye fields where the locals seemed friendly and children passed the day playing soccer. "It looks like Nebraska â with palm trees," said Lance Cpl. Justin Howe, 25. Two days after cordoning off this restive city 30 miles west of Baghdad, Marines were beginning to view the quiet, residential neighborhood as relatively safe. Local farmers appeared receptive to their calls for cooperation and Marines had offered to pay compensation to a few whose property was damaged by their operations. So when a squad of Marines emerged from behind its covered checkpoint Tuesday to begin a foot patrol, hostile fire was not what it expected. Within seconds, everyone was diving for cover amid a barrage of bullets. "There was fire all around my feet," said one of the Marines in the patrol. Three Marines were wounded, including one hit by a bullet that pierced his helmet and lodged in his head and another shot in the leg.
Tanks, Humvees and helicopters quickly arrived to attack parts of the neighborhood, destroying one building. After treating the Marineâs head injury, one serviceman grabbed his M-16 and joined the retaliatory strike. Insurgents, meanwhile, were demonstrating a resolve of their own. When Marines entered the neighborhood in tanks and helicopters, insurgents held their positions and fired back with rifles, mortars and small arms. Residents reported that insurgent cells, which had been lying low in recent days, had a higher profile Tuesday, openly carrying weapons and positioning grenade launchers in the middle of the streets. One carload of Iraqis was captured while attempting to plant homemade bombs in the road. "We will continue to resist them," said Abu Khamis Khulaifawi, who described himself as part of the insurgency in Fallouja. "We have enough mortars, enough rocket-propelled grenades and enough light arms."
Insurgents also appeared to have a strategy to defend the city. They have blocked streets with buses and other vehicles in an attempt to divert military vehicles and have used an antiaircraft gun â later destroyed â to try to shoot down helicopters. One copter was hit by small-arms fire but not seriously damaged. The insurgents are using buses to transport fighters around the city and have darted in with cars to retrieve their dead after battles. Falloujans set up a field hospital to stand in for the cityâs main facility, which is close to Marine positions. The military estimated that at least 50 Iraqis were killed and 20 others were detained. Some residents praised the insurgents for their tenacity. "It seems that they have succeeded in preventing the Americans from entering the city," said Ali Naif, a student at Al Anbar University.
But the Marines reported later that about 500 of their troops, backed by tanks and helicopters, had battled scores of insurgents to make it halfway to downtown. They said they were holding the area as a base from which they could try to retake the rest of the city. Maj. Brandon McGowan, executive officer of the 2nd Battalion, 1st Regiment, said the Marinesâ mission was going smoothly, and he was not surprised by the insurgentsâ willingness to attack. In fact, he said, he was counting on it. "If they want to come out and fight, thatâs fine with us," he said. "That way we donât have to go house to house to find them. Theyâll fall into our hands more easily." Staff Sgt. Eric Perry, 34, who is on his second tour in Iraq after participating in the invasion last spring, said the battle for control of Fallouja has been more challenging. "Itâs much more dangerous this time," he said. "The other times at least you knew who your enemy was. Now you donât know who is your friend." LA Times reg. req.
From Zeyad: Healing Iraq...
Sadr's aide and head of his office in Najaf, Qays Al-Khaz'ali, has declared the latest looting and killing spree going on in several Iraqi southern cities as an Intifada against the occupation.
I knew that intifada card would come out soon...
Speaking on behalf of Muqtada, he stated that they will certainly not calm down any[time] soon because the Quran orders them not to; "Fight those who fight against you". And he has also made it clear that they stand united with their 'Sunni brothers' in Ramadi, Fallujah, and Adhamiya in the resistance.
Even though the "Sunni brothers" regard them as next thing to Jews...
Muqtada himself though doesn't seem as if he has made up his mind yet. I believe the fool senses that he has blundered seriously.
I'd say so. There's no going back from this point. And he's bragged up that we'll never take him alive. Now he's got to do or die, and he's not going to do...
Earlier yesterday he issued an announcement to his followers to cease the 'demonstrations', and that he had left the Kufa mosque and took refuge at Imam Ali's shrine in Najaf, typically hiding among civilians and holy sites like the coward he is. Later, however, he issued another written statement in which he reiterated his pledge to Hassan Fadhlallah, Hizbollah leader, adding to it that he will be the 'striking hand' for Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani.
Sistani doesn't seem to have much interest in having a "striking hand," at least not in public. Mullah Fudlullah has been deemphasizing his Hezbollah connections in anticipation of moving back to Iraq. I think Moqtada's going to be hung out to dry.
One of his aides claimed that a delegation from Sistani met with Sadr informing him that the leading Shi'ite cleric supports Sadr and his followers and that their cause is legitimate. This contradicts Shitstani's statements yesterday, indicating that the old wizard is either suffering from senility or is playing his own dirty tricks. None of Sistani's agents have either denied or confirmed this claim, but they say that he will personally meet with Sadr tomorrow.
It could be that either the meeting never took place or Sadr just announced what he'd wanted to come out of it. There was another report that Sistani told him to knock it off and he rebuffed it.
Meanwhile, violent clashes continue in Nassiriya and Ammara between Al-Mahdi militiamen and coalition troops. There were reports that the militia had kidnapped two South Korean construction workers in Nassiriya. At Kut it was reported that IP and Ukrainian forces regained control of the local tv and radio station after it had been overrun by Sadr's henchmen, but that fighting resumed later in the evening. Also, reports of fighting at Diwaniyah, which had been the only major city in the south unaffected by the recent developments up until yesterday.
He's trying to make the "intifada" nationwide...
Of course, Sadr has set up offices in almost every city, town, and village in the south. And I have mentioned earlier that they had assumed full control over my small village where I work in the Basrah governorate weeks ago, terrorizing IP officers, civil servants, and doctors but nobody was listening. I don't think I will be heading back there any soon now. What surprises me is the almost professional coordination of the uprisings in all of these areas.
That'd be the IRGC part of it, those "pilgrims" from Iran...
I'm assuming, of course, that the money and equipment supplied by our dear Mullahs in Iran is being put to use good enough, not to mention the hundreds of Pasderan and Iranian intelligence officers... sorry I mean Iranian Shia pilgrims that have been pouring into Iraq for months now.
Bingo. You got it, Zeyad...
The situation in Baghdad looks the same as it was in the couple of days before the war last year. Streets are almost empty by seven in the evening, a whole lot of Baghdadis have remained home yesterday for fear of getting cut off from their neighbourhoods in event of Americans blocking off streets or something. There was an ongoing military operation very close to our neighbourhood almost all of Monday night till midday. At one point I imagined that the Apaches were landing on our roof (that was after I published the previous post), and explosions kept rocking our house which brought back uncanny memories of last April 10th when there was a fierce confrontation between Fedayeen and advancing Americans just outside our doorsteps.
It' the samething, only now we're fighting Iran's proxies...
I was standing outside with neighbours yesterday afternoon gossiping when a car drove by, threw a couple of fliers at us, shouting "read them, may Allah increase your reward". The fliers were signed by a group which called itself Saif Allah Albattar (Allah's striking sword) at Ramadi, Fallujah, Adhamiya, and Diyala, which advised Iraqis to remain home on April 9th (the anniversary of the occupation), stating that they would not be responsible if anyone failed to do so. Someone else talked about another group called the Iraqi Islamic Army (groups like these seem to pop up every other day) which claimed its responsibility for the killings of the 4 Americans in Fallujah last week, decribing them as 'Jews'.
We're all "Jews," you know. In the Islamist mind "Jew" and "Americans" are the same thing...
Anyway, it seems that fighting is ongoing in Sadr city, northeast of Baghdad. A total of 110 Iraqis and 19 coalition soldiers killed in the last 12 hours according to Al-Jazeera, which I have never witnessed being any more hateful and provocative until this day. They keep displaying headlines like 'Occupation forces target more women and children in Sadr city' or 'Resistance in Fallujah forces occupation forces to withdraw from locations'.
It's always the women and children we're targeting, never the Bad Guys with the RPGs...
A couple of GC members have shyly spoken against the violence. Ayad Allawi (INA) first described the uprisings as being directed by 'evil and dark forces who wish no prosperity for Iraqis', then he started beseeching his 'brother' Moqtada Al-Sadr to stay calm (Even he is scared from Sadr's thugs?). SCIRI leader, Abdul Aziz Al-Hakim condemned the behaviour of occupation forces in killing civilians in Najaf and called for their punishment. The Iraqi Ministry of Justice stated that they had absolutely nothing to do with the arrest warrant for Muqtada Al-Sadr. And you want us to keep hope?
Don't give up hope. This is causing the wafflers and time-servers to choose sides. It's also probably laying the groundwork for the U.S. military throwing the mullahs out of Iran and Assad out of Syria. Unless he somehow manages to win, it's a stunning miscalculation on Moqtada's part...
No one knows where it is all heading. If this uprising is not crushed immediately and those
militia not captured then there is no hope at all. If you even consider negotiations or appeasement, then we are all doomed.
My prediction: Moqtada in Iran by Friday...
Posted by: Fred ||
04/07/2004 11:52:23 AM ||
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Dunno about Friday. I think Sunday; he's hoping the Friday prayers go his way.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 13:15 Comments ||
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#3
Speaking on behalf of Muqtada, he stated that they will certainly not calm down any[time] soon because the Quran orders them not to; "Fight those who fight against you". And he has also made it clear that they stand united with their 'Sunni brothers' in Ramadi, Fallujah, and Adhamiya in the resistance.
Not a problem. If the solution is to kill them all, then that's what has to be done. Capturing these bastards is of no value; removing them and their toxic presence from the gene pool is not just desirable, but a necessity.
A statement attributed to an al-Qaeda group in the Gulf justified the mutilation last week of Americans killed in the Iraqi hotbed town of Fallujah, and said Americans would suffer the same treatment in the Arabian peninsula. "The act of our brothers in Fallujah demonstrates the extent of the atrocious crimes carried out against them by the crusader soldiers," said the statement, carried by Islamist internet sites in the name of the "al-Qaeda Organisation in the Arabian Peninsula." The authenticity of the statement, which was signed by "Abdul Aziz al-Muqrin," could not be verified. "While this act is prohibited by Islam ... it is permitted when the enemy does the same against Muslims," said the statement, posted on the website.
... except that we haven't done such things. Period.
"The Americans, who only know the language of force and an eye for an eye, pulled out of Somalia, defeated and degraded," the statement said. It also claimed that "American bodies, as well as those of their agents among the (Saudi) tyrants, will be trampled on and degraded in the Arabian peninsula."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/07/2004 12:04:52 PM ||
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"The Americans, who only know the language of force and an eye for an eye, pulled out of Somalia, defeated and degraded,"
Two points dirt bag:
1) This ain't Somalia,
2) Slick Willy ain't the President.
Stick your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye, because you got a whole lot of very pissed off Marines coming after you.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
04/07/2004 13:37 Comments ||
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On the streets of Baghdad neighborhoods long defined by differences of faith and politics, signs are emerging that resistance to the U.S. occupation may be growing from a sporadic, underground effort to a broader insurrection by militiamen who claim to be fighting in the name of their common faith, Islam. On Monday, residents of Adhamiya, a largely Sunni section of northern Baghdad, marched with followers of Moqtada Sadr, the militant Shiite cleric whose call for armed resistance was answered by local Sunnis the same afternoon, residents said. As protesters chanted anti-occupation slogans in Abu Hanifa Square, militants were seen hustling toward the site carrying AK-47s and rocket-propelled grenade launchers, residents said. The guerrillas opened fire on the U.S. armor deployed near the demonstration, attacking from positions in a neighborhood where militants appear to be not just tolerated but encouraged. "I saw three mujaheddin on this street, and another three moving up this side," said Abu Hassan, pointing toward narrow lanes running toward the square on either side of the bakery where he works. On the other side of the counter, a customer spoke excitedly of guerrilla fighters arriving in several Toyota Coaster minibuses, then melting into the neighborhood. "Everywhere among the houses they hid," said the young customer, who left without giving his name. "Then they started shooting at the American army."
"It's all so we will have a resistance, Adhamiya and Moqtada combined," Hassan said. The bakery did brisk business Tuesday afternoon. In a city where the ordinarily jammed streets had light traffic for a second straight day, residents confided that they were ordering enough bread to last two or three days, stockpiling a staple in expectation of street fighting in the days ahead. "What Moqtada Sadr did simply woke up the people," said Sarmad Akram, 36, who owns the small food shop next door. "Now the people have the guts to resist." The exchange, in a middle-class Sunni quarter, was one scene Tuesday that appeared to challenge the assessment by U.S. military officials that Sadr speaks for only a radical fringe in Iraq and that his calls for mass resistance will resonate only with his followers.
Directly across the Tigris River, in the heavily Shiite neighborhood of Kadhimiya, shops were shuttered and residents kept their own watch for the approach of armored columns from an occupation base at the top of the street. The scene was calm, but a half-hour earlier a rocket-propelled grenade had ripped into a Bradley Fighting Vehicle in the neighborhood, killing a U.S. soldier, the third killed in Kadhimiya in two days. "We didn't do it," Sayyid Adnan Saafi said into his cell phone. The black-turbaned Sadr official was surrounded by armed men, but most of the several hundred males loitering in a broad pedestrian mall were local civilians, chatting, chewing salted nuts and nominally participating in the general strike Sadr's office had demanded of all schools and government offices. "Not supporting this strike means not supporting religion," a flyer warned. "We told the people to take the students out to protest in a quiet and peaceful way," Saafi said. One principal said most officials felt obliged to obey, despite a contrary order from the Education Ministry, which is controlled by the U.S.-appointed Governing Council.
Like complaints about home searches that leave Iraqis feeling defiled and humiliated, disappointment with the Governing Council is a grievance that binds many Iraqis. The panel is widely condemned as dominated by exiles such as Ahmed Chalabi, the Iraqi National Congress leader far better known and loved in Washington than in Baghdad. The complaint gained new energy when Shiite clerics began a campaign against sections of the basic law the council produced with U.S. oversight as a basis for a constitution. "We lost faith in the Americans," said Asaam Al Jarah, principal of a Kadhimiya high school. "Everybody was waiting for the transition, waiting and waiting. Then we saw the law was rubbish. Now everything is different."
Ahhh... The Middle East: don't get what you want? Grab a gun!
The neighborhood, though Shiite, is not normally regarded as Sadr turf. Most Kadhimiya residents, like most of Iraq's majority Shiite population, look to Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani for instruction. But Abu Ali Hashem, a Sistani follower and an official of a hallowed Shiite shrine, estimated that half of the neighborhood's Sistani followers were joining in Sadr's protest in the absence of any instruction otherwise from their own leader. That drift toward the young cleric appeared to challenge another critical calculation of U.S. commanders and officials. Occupation overseers have counted on the well-known tension between the revered Sistani and the upstart Sadr as a check on Sadr's influence. But the rivalry apparently is being overtaken by a more immediate conflict -- the scores of clashes since Sunday pitting occupation forces in Baghdad and several southern cities against militiamen who claim to be fighting in the name of a common faith. "We send you this letter from your brothers in al Anbar governate and the city of Fallujah, to say that we are with you under the banner of 'God is Greatest' and the mantle of Islam." So began a letter read over loudspeakers Monday outside Sadr's headquarters in the Shiite slum named for his late father and uncle, clerics who held the same rank as Sistani when they were killed, reputedly by Saddam Hussein's forces. The letter was read on the morning that U.S. Marines began an offensive in Fallujah, a volatile seat of Sunni resistance just west of Baghdad. The 1st Marine Expeditionary Force reported steady military progress, but also that insurgents who used to hit and run were, for the first time, standing and fighting.
"We are all behind Sayyid Moqtada Sadr, may God give him victory . . . on the subject of liberation," the letter read. Several hundred members of Sadr's irregular militia, the Mahdi Army, cheered and waved pistols and swords at the words. "We are cooperating with our brothers the Shia," said Abu Ahmed, 52, standing on the main street of Adhamiya, where every storefront was closed behind steel shutters at 5 p.m. Tuesday. Forty-five minutes earlier, a red BMW had scooted through the neighborhood warning people to clear the streets. U.S. tanks had been spotted, and the community was spreading the word that a fight was coming. "Move away! Move away!" a boy called out from near the remains of a taxi crushed by a tank in the previous day's fighting, which left four Iraqis dead. "The mujaheddin are behind me. They're attacking!" The street emptied in moments, but the column of tanks did not arrive. "You have not seen anything yet," said Akram, the shopkeeper. "You will see a new style of resistance in the city. Well-organized. Advanced. They will be surprised. They won't know what to do." He smiled, but refused to say more, except that the plan would involve children as young as 8 and men as old as 80, drawn from across the district.
More human shields...
"When we all sit together, the groups of this city, it's something new. You'll be surprised. Something really very new. We have not started it yet. "If I talk about it, it won't be a surprise," the shopkeeper added. "And you won't see the beauty of it." The men on the shuttered main street had the same message. "There's a new style of resistance," said an elderly man who, like the baker, gave his name as Abu Hassan. The lines in Hassan's face deepened as he spoke bitterly of a year under occupation in a neighborhood long regarded by U.S. forces as hostile. The raids on private homes were the worst, Hassan said. He repeated familiar stories of American soldiers taking money and leaving only a receipt that proved impossible to redeem. He told of an old woman left behind when everyone else in her home was first arrested, then declared innocent after four months in detention. "So we will keep killing them!" he snapped, his eyes flashing. "We found our way, just now. We gather together now."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/07/2004 11:55:11 AM ||
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The enemy of your enemy is still a corpse.
Posted by: john ||
04/07/2004 12:15 Comments ||
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Shi'ite and Sunni radicals line up alongside Sadr
So can we mow all of them down in one sitting? Huh? Huh? Please?
#6
Miniguns? I knew a hard fightin hombre named minigun once, tough nut, was using an Apache to drop GPS guided bombs in GW I. I think he may have been CID. Not sure.
Posted by: Col Flagg ||
04/07/2004 16:14 Comments ||
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I dunno. I see someone's eyes flashing, I think they're Goa'uld.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 16:15 Comments ||
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Shi'a and Sunni together? Okay, I must confess my basic ignorance of the tenants of Islam once more. Hopefully this will help me form a useful metaphor/framework for future understanding. :)
Sunni is to Shi'a as
a) Roman Catholic is to Protestant
b) Southern Baptist is to Regular Baptist
c) Lutheran is to Mormon
d) I'm not even close on the first 3 counts.
If Moqtada al-Sadr has chosen a grand mosque in this Euphrates River town for a last stand against American troops, as many of his militiamen have claimed in recent days, he appears to be relying more on the will of God than anything like military discipline to protect him. Many hundreds of militiamen in the black outfits of Mr. Sadr's Mahdi Army were visible on Tuesday on roads approaching the golden-domed mosque and inside the sprawling compound leading to the inner sanctuary. But they seemed unmarshaled, at least to the layman's eye â more milling about than militant.
A reporter and photographer for The New York Times had a rare â and unplanned â opportunity to see Mr. Sadr's battle troops up close on Tuesday. A 100-mile drive from Baghdad for a supposed news conference by Mr. Sadr ended up with no news conference, and a handful of the newspaper's Baghdad staff, including drivers, security guards and an interpreter, detained for nearly eight hours. They were suspected, their captors said, of being Special Forces operatives or intelligence agents for the United States, Spain or Israel. But before and after being driven away blindfolded to a makeshift prison deep in the semidesert landscape outside Kufa, the visitors were left under loose guard at the mosque's main entrance and, for about an hour, inside the courtyard. There, seething antagonism for Westerners blended with a haphazard, almost chaotic approach to maintaining control. Hundreds of worshipers made their way into the mosque past groups of men toting Kalashnikov rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, and a variety of bayonets and knives. Along with weapons, the constants among the men were religious fervor and loyalty to Mr. Sadr. Many wore black headbands inscribed in yellow with Shiite religious tenets, black turbans or common red and black checkered kuffiya headdresses. Some of the militiamen were in their 50's and 60's, but most were young, some no more than 12 or 13. Weapons training among them appeared virtually nonexistent; Kalashnikovs with loaded magazines and safety catches off were nonchalantly waved in the air. Pinned to their robes were photographs of Mr. Sadr, a 31-year-old bushy-bearded cleric, and of his father, assassinated by agents of Saddam Hussein in 1999.
Hatred for America was pervasive. One man of about 25 thrust a long-bladed knife into an imaginary belly, telling his companions, "This is what I will do to the American infidels when they enter here." Another man approached a reporter, asked his citizenship, and turned away to spit and grind his boot on the courtyard floor. "This is our message to Bush and Blair," he said. If Mr. Sadr was anywhere around, there was no sign of any special protection for him, and little attempt to control the wanderings of the worshipers who came and went. But there were signs of preparations for a siege. In the early afternoon, vehicles pulled up to the mosque and unloaded cardboard boxes full of food. Later, several ambulances unloaded boxes of medical supplies, labeled in English as containing bandages, cotton balls and syringes. Some were marked with Christian inscriptions in English, suggesting that they originally came from Christian medical charities operating in Iraq. Vehicles came and went, among them white and blue patrol cars and pickup trucks supplied by the United States to Iraq's new American-trained police force, filled with some of the heavily armed militiamen who took control of Kufa on Sunday.
In the end, Mr. Sadr's security officials returned most of the equipment they had seized from the visiting newspapermen, minus several flak jackets, two satellite telephones and the weapons used by armed escorts who sometimes accompany reporters for The Times on trips outside Baghdad, where drive-by shootings and ambushes are common. But the farewell handshakes at midnight outside the great wooden doors of the mosque followed an alarming journey out into the arid flatlands northwest of Kufa, during which the visitors were blindfolded and warned not to try to see where they were being taken. After an hour, and numerous stops along deserted tracts linking impoverished villages, the vehicle drew up beside a stark cinder block building. There, for nearly six hours, the visitors were held in a concrete-floored room furnished with rough mats and a handful of blankets. They were watched by about five young men with Kalashnikovs that were leveled, fingers on triggers, whenever they entered or approached the building's rusting metal door. As night fell, the militiamen and several of the detained Iraqis became visibly more nervous, and tensions rose as all of the detainees pondered what might happen to them if American troops began a nighttime assault on the mosque in an effort to capture Mr. Sadr. The most difficult moment came when aircraft were heard overhead â at one point, a high-flying jet, at another a low-flying turboprop that sounded like a Predator drone, the pilotless craft used by American forces for battlefield surveillance. After perhaps 10 minutes, the drone sound faded, leaving only the hum of traffic passing on a distant highway.
The group of detained men slept fitfully and were awakened by the sound of an approaching car. The security officials who had arrested them came through the door, smiling broadly. "Everything is O.K. now," they said, without further explanation. "You can go home." As the detainees were taken back to the mosque, the driver, who gave his name as Khadem, gave a hint of his thinking. With magnesium flares fired by militia outposts lighting the night sky outside Kufa, the man, who said he was 40 and a technical college graduate, explained how he had had spent two years in prison under Saddam Hussein for belonging to a banned Shiite religious party. But when he was asked if he had not welcomed the American forces who toppled Mr. Hussein almost exactly a year ago, as many Shiites did, he turned suddenly combative. "It was God who finished Saddam, not the Americans," he said. "The Americans broke all their promises to us, and they have brought their infidel beliefs to Iraq. We hate them, and they are worse than Saddam."
Not much for attention span, is he? And his memory's not very long...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/07/2004 11:51:09 AM ||
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What do you bet this reporter'll be another Yvonne?
Posted by: Steve from Relto ||
04/07/2004 12:05 Comments ||
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"It was God who finished Saddam, not the Americans,"
Yeah, all those tanks were God's.
BTW -- I suspect they released the reporters once they were sure they were NYT. After all, they're all on the same side, aren't they?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 12:24 Comments ||
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After all, they're all on the same side, aren't they?
RC -- you beat me to it. I was just going to say that.
Posted by: Infidel Bob ||
04/07/2004 12:46 Comments ||
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I'm glad that Burns got out of the situation, since he seems to be just about the only mainstream reporter in Iraq who consistently focuses on the facts rather than promoting some some agenda.
It's still surprising to me that he works for the NYTimes -- but I'll read any article he writers, in spite of that.
#5
RC and Infidel Bob, if John Burns is one of the reporters indetified in the story, remember that he is one of the good guys (read, "not suffering from cranio-rectal compaction").
Posted by: Carl in N.H ||
04/07/2004 13:46 Comments ||
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I guess there's an exception in every bunch, but I still think the jihadis freed them because they're NYT.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 14:03 Comments ||
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I don't know...there is something about this story that sounds a bit unrealistic to me. Can't quite put my finger on it, but it just doesn't sound quite right.
Posted by: B ||
04/07/2004 14:59 Comments ||
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#8
I'm trying to figure out if this incident is the same thing as the reported capture of unnamed foreign journalists that hit the air in the last few hours or not. What do y'all think?
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
04/07/2004 15:16 Comments ||
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Sheik Moqtada al-Sadr, the lunatic fiery Iraqi Shiâite cleric who ordered his fanatical militia to attack coalition troops, is being supported by Iran and its terror surrogate Hezbollah, according to military sources with access to recent intelligence reports. Gee, what a shock!
Sheik al-Sadrâs bid to spark a widespread uprising in Iraq comes at a particularly pivotal time. The United States is conducting a massive troop rotation that leaves inexperienced troops in some locations, including Fallujah, which is west of Baghdad and where Sunnis have mounted another series of rebellions. Sheik al-Sadr, who has traveled to Iran and met with its hard-line Shiâite clerics, is an ardent foe of the United States who wants all foreign troops to leave. The United States suspects that his goal is to create a hard-line Shiâite regime in Iraq modeled after Tehranâs government. Military sources said Sheik al-Sadr is being aided directly by Iranâs Revolutionary Guard, which plays a large role in running that country, and by Hezbollah, an Iranian-created terrorist group based in Lebanon. One of the sources said these two organizations are supplying the cleric with money, spiritual support and possibly weapons. "Iran does not want a success in Iraq," the source said. "A democratic Iraq is a death knell to the mullahs." Ring that bell, Quasimodo!...
When the 82nd Airborne Division first tried to subdue Fallujah in the summer, units went block by block to locate insurgents. Now, in the second intense battle for the city of Saddam Hussein loyalists, intelligence collection has improved and U.S. Marines can target specific dwellings. "The plan is not to go house to house, street to street. We are trying to get insurgents," Capt. Ed Sullivan told Agence France-Presse. Mr. Hillen said such precision operations mean that the Marines are getting good intelligence. "If you have good intelligence beforehand, which is the key to the whole Fallujah-type operations, you can at the same time be precise and overwhelming. Weâve been in and around Fallujah for quite some time, and Iâm sure we have some pretty good intelligence sources there."
Posted by: mojo ||
04/07/2004 11:24:25 AM ||
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Can anyone please tell me WHY there has not been more of a direct public warning, from the administration, to Iran concerning Iran's
tendency to flood Iraq with Iranian intelligence officers? I can image we have killed several of these infiltrators throughout this past year...but why no public focus? Is it that we could not handle an all out war with Iran at this point and we want to leave things well enough alone?
from CJTF-7
Attacks killed 15 Coalition service members April 6 and 7. The casualties occurred in the following incidents:
Twelve U.S. Marines died battling anti-Coalition forces in Ar Ramadi April 6.
One Ukrainian soldier was killed and five were wounded when their patrol was attacked by small-arms fire in Al Kut at about 11:45 a.m. April 6. The condition of the wounded is unknown.
One 1st Infantry Division soldier was killed and another wounded during a counter-fire mission at Logistics Support Area Anaconda near Balad at about 8:35 p.m. April 6. The wounded soldier was medically evacuated to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center, Germany and is in stable condition. The incident is under investigation.
One Task Force 1st Armored Division soldier was killed by rocket- propelled-grenade fire at about 6:30 a.m. April 7 as his convoy conducted a relief in place of the security forces guarding the Diala Police Station in Baghdad. The soldierâs name is being withheld pending notification of next of kin.
Raiding terrorist hideouts, fending for themselves in deep forests and honing firing skills against unconventional targets, some 120 Indian and America soldiers are carrying out the largest ever joint military exercise in the thick jungles of Mizoram. This is the first joint infantry exercise between the two countries. It began on March 28 and will end on April 16.
It is being held at the sprawling campus of the Counter Insurgency and Jungle Warfare School, a unique military training centre for training soldiers to fight terrorists in natural surroundings. Reputed to be the worldâs only one in its league, the school has been quietly shaping critical leadership and soldiers of several nations, including Nepal and Sri Lanka, for unconventional warfare.
During the three-week long exercise, the soldiers will train in operating in jungle terrain, in rural and urban centres, hostage rescue, anti-hijacking operations, interrogation, intelligence based tactical operations, combat training, and IED (improvised explosive device) handling, says Brigadier B K Ponwar, commandant of the CIJW School.
One company of soldiers from the 9 Rajput Battalion is participating in the exercise while the US side is represented by one platoon of soldiers from the 2nd Battalion of the First Infantry Regiment of the Alaska-based 172nd Stryker Brigade.
Lt Colonel David Wisecarver, the commanding officer of the US infantry unit, says the exercise is a unique opportunity for the Americans because the âUS doesnât have a jungle warfare schoolâ and his unit would impart the lessons learnt in Mizoram to other soldiers in the US. EFL (I know, for a change)
#1
Are there any jungles in Syria or Iran or N. Korea?
Posted by: Tibor ||
04/07/2004 12:59 Comments ||
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Are there any jungles in Syria or Iran or N. Korea?
I don't think so, but there are plenty of them in Indonesia and the Philippines. Looks like someone's thinking REALLY long-term...
While the United States doesn't have a "jungle" per se, I'm sure some of the folks that have been stationed in Fort Polk might disagree with that.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/07/2004 14:11 Comments ||
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Alaska-based 172nd Stryker Brigade
Yep that's the army all right. Had one uncle from deep, deep in the swamps of Taylor County FL, enlisted in the army and was immediately put on snow skys..
Wedensday afternoon, Ukrainian troops retreat from southern Iraqi town of al Kut in face of Sadr militia offensive, serious coalition reverse that cuts highway to Basra. In Karbala, Polish troops kill Sadrâs main spokesman. US Marines take center of Sunni Triangle town of Fallujah, bomb mosque with 40 Sunni insurgents inside. Another 36 killed overnight. Fighting spreads north where US troops confronted near Kirkuk by unidentified insurgents possibly including al-Qaeda linked Ansar al Islam.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
04/07/2004 10:39:01 AM ||
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Debka, so have your salt lick handy.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 10:52 Comments ||
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pretty much all of this is confirmed elsewhere. No one has said that Basra highway is cut, i guess they got that by looking at the map. Presumably can drive AROUND Kut, since outskirts are reportedly still in coalition hands. No one else reports center of Fallujah taken, but with raids in center, and Marines pushing steadily in, its plausible.
Fighting near Kirkuk is in Hawji, a predominantly Sunni Arab town, where fear of the Kurds makes this place very hardline.
#3
From AP: In Kiev, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry said its troops evacuated about 20 coalition representatives -- Americans, Britons, Poles and others -- from the Kut city hall after Shiite fighters launched mortar and infantry attacks overnight. The civilians and Ukrainian forces moved to a camp outside of town. "There were no Ukrainian casualties, but several dozen militants were killed," ministry spokesman Lt. Col. Andriy Lysenkohe said.
OK, that sounds better, evacuate civilian aid workers from the hot zone and dig in.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/07/2004 11:20 Comments ||
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KIEV (AFP) - Ukrainian troops withdrew from the Iraqi city of Kut, south of the capital Baghdad, after heavy fighting with supporters of radical Shiite Muslim cleric Moqtada Sadr who now control the city, the defence ministry said. "At the request of the Americans, and to preserve the life of our military, the commander of the Ukrainian contingent decided to evacuate the civil administration staff and Ukrainian troops from Kut," the ministry said in a statement.
"The operation began at dawn on Wednesday ... under escort from attack helicopters," the ministry added.
Withdrew "At the request of the Americans", huh? Sounds like we're clearing the friendlies out of the way.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/07/2004 11:58 Comments ||
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Are teh Ukrainians, Poles et. al. good enough to go house-to-house?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/07/2004 15:01 Comments ||
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Israelis may soon have a real-life "Palestinian" terror state seething on their border. Within hours of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon Friday revealing his intention to fully withdraw from the Gaza Strip, Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Yasser Arafat'sFatah faction of the PLO came together in Gaza City.
Talk about your target rich environment.
Throwing off the differences that have ostensibly divided them, the three organizations openly discussed merging into a single leadership movement to control the Strip when Israel leaves. An agreement between them would see the US-backed Palestinian Authority (which is under Fatah's control) snuggled up in bed between two groups that feature at the very top of the State Department's list of terrorist organizations.
It's almost like we planned it that way.
Reports in Israel on Tuesday - the first day of Passover - disclosed that Arafat himself had brazenly confessed his desire to have Hamas "back" alongside his PLO.
Of course, Yasser thinks he'll be in charge. Hamas may have other ideas.
While Washington has warned the PA not to invite Hamas into its ranks, reports out of the US indicate that President George W. Bush has decided to come out in support of Sharon's plan to unilaterally abandon Gaza.
Gee, you don't think that might be part of the plan, do you? Nah, Bush ain't that smart, just ask Saddam.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/07/2004 10:26:09 AM ||
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Once all IDF forces are out of Gaza, the Israelis should sow a minefield around the border if there isn't already one there. If Hamas jihadis want to go boom, their wishes can be granted without them having to go very far from home.
#2
Not bad, if things turn out the way I think they will -- Yasir trapped between the rock of Sharon's vow that anyone who kills Jews is "marked for death", and the hard place of Hamas' popularity (and probably more real power) with the people ...
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
04/07/2004 14:08 Comments ||
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Arafat and Rantisi in bed together?
ready, one . . . two . . . three:
EEEEEEWWWWWW! Gross!
Posted by: Mike ||
04/07/2004 14:29 Comments ||
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The U.S.-led coalition in Iraq aims to ``destroyââ the Mahdi army of Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr after clashes that left more than 100 Iraqis and 30 U.S. soldiers and Marines dead, U.S. Army Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt said. Coalition forces and followers of al-Sadr have fought the past four days in Baghdad, Najaf, Nassiriyah and other Iraqi cities. Al-Sadr, whose Mahdi army numbers about 3,000, according to the U.S. military, has called for coalition troops to withdraw from the country. U.S. forces, Iraqi police and other coalition soldiers ``are conducting operations to destroy the Mahdi army,ââ Kimmitt said at a Baghdad press conference carried live by Cable News Network. ``These militias that take to violence will become targets.ââ
The uprising in the south of Iraq by supporters of al-Sadr, 31, has led to clashes with U.S., British, Italian and other coalition troops. Al-Sadr could put an end to the violence by turning himself in to Iraqi police, Kimmitt said. Al-Sadr is the subject of an arrest warrant in connection with the killing of cleric Abdul Majid al-Khoei last April. The coalition last week closed down a newspaper run by al-Sadr supporters, and arrested one of his aides, Mustafa Yacoubi, also in connection with al-Khoeiâs murder.
Coalition forces are also fighting militias in areas that are predominantly Sunni Muslim. An Iraqi armed force killed 12 U.S. soldiers west of Baghdad as the U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said coalition forces isolated the city of Fallujah. White House spokesman Scott McClellan confirmed the soldiers were killed in an attack late yesterday. The attack took place near Ramadi, 48 kilometers to the west of Fallujah, when U.S. units were fired on by as many as 70 Iraqis armed with rocket-propelled grenades. At least 30 Iraqis were killed in clashes with U.S. forces in Fallujah. Fallujah and Ramadi are in the so-called Sunni Triangle north and west of Baghdad where most of resistance to the occupation has taken place. Recent attacks have ``put a lot of strain on the resources of the coalition,ââ Adnan Pachachi, an Iraqi Governing Council member, said today on British Broadcasting Corp. radio. A pull out of U.S.-led forces would be a ``disasterââ because ``there would be absolutely no force that can control the situation.ââ Followers of al-Sadr may have entered the Sunni Muslim region to carry out the attack in Ramadi, AFP cited an unidentified U.S. defense official as saying.
``Moqtada al-Sadr and his movement do not represent the views of the entire Shia population,ââ interim Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari yesterday told reporters at the Royal Institute of International Affairs in London. ``They are a small minority.ââ Other clerics, including Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, spiritual leader of Iraqâs Shiites, ``are keeping their distance from this movement.ââ Iraqâs Shiites, who make up 60 percent of the countryâs 25 million people, were prevented from holding power under Saddam Husseinâs Sunni Muslim regime that was ousted in April last year. British troops on Monday negotiated an end to the occupation of the governorâs office in the U.K.-controlled southern city of Basra by Iraqis loyal to al-Sadr. Sistani yesterday called for calm and the restoration of law and order, AFP said, citing Sheikh Abdel Mahdi al-Karbalai, a representative of Sistani. ``We hope to settle this problem peacefully,ââ al-Karbalai said. ``Sadr is an immediate problem that has to be dealt with,ââ U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said in a radio interview yesterday, according to a State Department transcript. ``His army, the Mahdi, has to be dealt with.ââ
The U.S. began its operation at Fallujah to search for people involved in last weekâs killing of four U.S. civilian guards as their convoy passed through the city. Their bodies were mutilated, dragged and hanged from a bridge by an Iraqi mob. Rumsfeld said yesterday in Norfolk, Virginia that U.S. forces are conducting raids in Fallujah against ``high-value targetsââ and had captured some anti-coalition fighters. U.S. President George W. Bush discussed the Fallujah operation with advisers including Rumsfeld, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Richard Myers, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card, McClellan said late yesterday in a conference call with reporters. McClellan described Bushâs call as ``an update on military operations,ââ and declined to say whether the subject of increasing U.S. forces in Iraq was raised. Rumsfeld said at his briefing he would be open to proposals by commanders in Iraq for more soldiers or equipment, though no plan had yet been sent to Washington. ``At the present time they have not requested a change in their plan,ââ Rumsfeld said at a news conference with North Atlantic Treaty Organization Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer. ``They will decide what they need and they will get what they need.ââ
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
04/07/2004 10:05:01 AM ||
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Fox News; EFL
A top U.S. general in Iraq vowed on Wednesday to "destroy" a Shiite militia led by wanted radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr that has launched a wave of attacks against coalition forces in southern cities. He used the "D" word--"destroy." Not "punish," not "bring to justice," not "engage in multilateral dialouge with the world community to resolve differences." "Destroy." I like that.
"We will attack to destroy the al-Mahdi Army," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt told reporters. "Those attacks will be deliberate, precise and they will be successful." All I can add is: Good luck, good hunting, and get home safe.
Posted by: Mike ||
04/07/2004 10:27:55 AM ||
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He used the "D" word--"destroy." Not "punish," not "bring to justice," not "engage in multilateral dialouge with the world community to resolve differences." "Destroy." I like that.
All that is left now is to complete the job. When all is done, the proper message will have been sent to anyone and everyone: we mean BUSINESS.
At least 100 Swedish citizens or residents of Iranian descent, who have been held prisoner near Baghdad for nearly a year, risk extradition to Iran where they could be executed, Swedish media reported on Wednesday.
And why would Iran execute peaceful fun-loving Swedes, pray tell?
The Swedes are among approximately 4,000 fighters in the People's Mujahedin, an Iraq-based Iranian opposition movement, who have been held prisoner since last spring at Camp Ashraf, which is located north-west of the Iraqi capital.
Oh, that's why. They are Iranian members of a terrorist group who happen to have Swedish passports (among others).
You didn't think they were named "Sven" or "Olaf," did you?
The United States decided last December that members of the opposition group would be expelled from Iraq, and although it decided that they should not be sent to Iran, Swedish activists and lawyers are worried that they will end up there. "These people risk ending up in Iran ... and then it is probable that torture and death sentences await them," Kenneth Lewis, a Swedish lawyer and the spokesman for Lawyers Without Borders, told Dagens Nyheter, adding that most of the Swedes being held in the camp were women.
I don't think we are talking about the Swedish bikini team here.
If we don't ship them to Iran, but they somehow end up there anyway, what's the beef? Are we supposed to take them to Samoa and nail their feet to the floor?
There's a disputed island in the Kennedy Channel, about 80 degrees N, between Greenland and Canada that might be available.
Lewis, who recently returned from a trip to the camp, where he interviewed 80 Mujahedin fighters with Swedish ties, has agreed to press the Swedish government to protect their rights. The Swedish foreign ministry, which could not confirm how many people with ties to Sweden are being held in the camp, said the US had asked it to accept all the Mujahedin fighters with legal ties to the Scandinavian country. "The US has been in contact with us to see if Sweden can take in these people," foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Haakonsson told AFP.
I'd think long and hard about this. Then I'd say no.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/07/2004 10:01:47 AM ||
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Kenneth Lewis, a Swedish lawyer and the spokesman for Lawyers Without Brains Borders???Kenneth Lewis? Doesn't sound swedish, does it, Sven?
And what the hell did Sweden do, drop a pallet of passports in, with instructions on how to become a citizen? How did these yahoos become swedish citizens?
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/07/2004 10:39 Comments ||
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"How did these yahoos become swedish citizens"
Easy. They got to Sweden by hook or by crook, then claimed asylum.
And stayed long enough to get a Swedish passport before running off to fight the jihad.
You know, like the same stuff that is happening all over Europe these days.
Posted by: Carl in N.H ||
04/07/2004 11:50 Comments ||
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If these guys and gals want to overthrow the Iranian mullahs we should hold them under house arrest just as the Iranians are holding Al Queda leaders under house arrest (when they aren't denying they have the leaders that is).
A SUSPECTED top Taliban commander has been arrested in an affluent Kabul neighbourhood by Afghan police and international peacekeepers, a senior official said today. Abdul Hadi, who commanded the hardliners' forces in northern Afghanistan until late 2001, was arrested yesterday, Deputy Interior Minister General Hilaludin Hilal said. "Hadi was arrested with four AK-47 machine guns, a long distance radio and documents indicating he was involved in several terror incidents," Hilal said, without elaborating. Hadi was a former commander for the Hizb-i-Islami fundamentalist faction of wanted warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar but later joined the Taliban movement, Hilal said. The arrest in the upmarket Wazir Akbar Khan -- home to several embassies, prominent officials and a US-led coalition base - was a joint operation with troops from the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force, he said.
One of the reported incidents occurred near Karbala where there appeared to be a very large âagricultural supplyâ area of 55-gallon drums of pesticide. In addition, there was also a camouflaged bunker complex full of these drums that some people entered with unpleasant results. More than a dozen soldiers, a Knight-Ridder reporter, a CNN cameraman, and two Iraqi POWs came down with symptoms consistent with exposure to nerve agent. A full day of tests on the drums resulted in one positive for nerve agent, and then one resulted in a negative. Later, an Army Fox NBC [nuclear, biological, chemical] Recon Vehicle confirmed the existence of Sarin. An officer from the 63d Chemical Company thought there might well be chemical weapons at the site.
But later ISG tests resulted in a proclamation of negative, end of story, nothing to see here, etc., and the earlier findings and injuries dissolved into non-existence. Left unexplained is the small matter of the obvious pains taken to disguise the cache of ostensibly legitimate pesticides. One wonders about the advantage an agricultural commodities business gains by securing drums of pesticide in camouflaged bunkers six feet underground. The âagricultural siteâ was also co-located with a military ammunition dump, evidently nothing more than a coincidence in the eyes of the ISG.
Another find occurred around the northern Iraqi town of Baiâji, where elements of the 4th Infantry Division (Mech) discovered 55-gallon drums of a substance that mass spectrometer testing confirmed was cyclosarin and an unspecified blister agent. A mobile laboratory was also found nearby that could have been used to mix chemicals at the site. And only yards away, surface-to-surface and surface-to-air missiles, as well as gas masks were found. Of course, later tests by the experts revealed that these were only the ubiquitous pesticides that everybody was turning up. It seems that Iraqi soldiers were obsessed with keeping their ammo dumps insect-free, according to the reading of the evidence now enshrined by the conventional wisdom that âno WMD stockpiles have been discovered.â
Coalition forces continued to find evidence of CW after major combat operations had concluded. The US unit around Taji, just north of Baghdad discovered pesticides in one of the largest ammo dumps in Iraq. The unit wanted to use the ammo dump for their own operations, when they discovered the pesticides in ânon-standardâ drums that were smaller in diameter but much longer than the standard 55-gallon drums.
Then in January of this year, Danish forces discovered 120mm mortar shells with a mysterious liquid inside that initially tested positive for blister agents. Further tests in Southern Iraq and in the US were, of course, negative. The Danish Army said, âIt is unclear why the initial field tests were wrong.â This is the understatement of the year, and also points to a most basic question: If it wasnât a chemical agent, what was it? More pesticides? Dishwashing detergent? From this old soldierâs perspective, I gain nothing from putting a liquid in my mortar rounds unless that stuff will do bad things to the enemy.
Virtually all agencies concerned with Iraqâs WMD programs have reached the conclusion that Saddam was an expert at delay, dispersion, and deception. His nuclear program had restarted as reported earlier this year by Dr. Kay, the previous head of the ISG. Also, âseed agentsâ and other bio-toxins had been dispersed throughout Baghdad and Iraq to form the basis for the regeneration of a full-fledged BW program. This modus operandi was no different for the regeneration of Saddamâs chemical weapons program. Operating under the guise of legitimate industrial and agricultural chemical production and storage, Iraq would have gone into full-scale conversion of its stockpile of chemical precursors into weaponized agents, had the Coalition not attacked and seized Iraq.
What is stunning is that the ISG seems incapable of connecting the dots to present to the American people the clear evidence of Saddamâs flouting of 12 years of UN resolutions, and the grave consequences if we had failed to act. The ISG also owes a detailed explanation to DoD as to how 12 years of research, development, and money has apparently gone down the drain in the effort to upgrade the militaryâs chemical detection capability and NBC training regimen. That the ISG can consistently contradict other technical specialists, while ignoring years of UNSCOM and US intelligence assessments, without accountability is unconscionable, and must be rectified as soon as possible
Posted by: B ||
04/07/2004 9:19:19 AM ||
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If I were an underling trying to fool Sadaam that I had produced nerve agent, I would use a substance that produced the same symptoms. Another possibility - Russia sold Sadaam bogus Sarin.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/07/2004 15:08 Comments ||
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Bogus sarin? I would be shocked. Shocked!
I wonder if it was the same helpful salesman who hooked them up with the GPS Jammer.
SHIITE Muslim cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, whose militiamen have risen up against the US-led coalition, is wanted for the killing of a rival last year and for questioning in another murder case, a legal adviser to the US-led coalition said today. Sadr is wanted for the April 10, 2003 assassination of rival cleric Abdel Majid al-Khoei, who was stabbed to death in the central Shiite holy city of Najaf, along with two other people. He is also wanted for questioning over the deaths four months ago of three people, including a pregnant woman, who went to a hospital in Najaf in a taxi, the source said. In a third case, Sadr is accused of confiscating the "khoms", or donations of worshippers to mosques and shrines in the south, which were worth a few hundred dollars.
Skimming the donations to the poor.
The coalition official said an arrest warrant was signed and delivered by an Iraqi judge in August.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/07/2004 9:04:12 AM ||
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minor league thug in religious garb. Kill.Him.Now
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/07/2004 10:00 Comments ||
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US marines pressing an offensive in this Iraqi town west of Baghdad bombed a mosque in the center of the town Wednesday and killed up to 40 insurgents inside, a marine officer said. The attack came from a jet aircraft at a high angle to minimize the impact, the officer said. "We wanted to kill the people inside," said Lieutenant Colonel Brennan Byrne.
Holy site now just a hole. Sweet.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/07/2004 9:01:37 AM ||
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Awesome. How do you like that f*ckers!! Hide in a mosque, die in a mosque.
Posted by: Infidel Bob ||
04/07/2004 9:14 Comments ||
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#3
IB, damn right, and I'm proud we got to do it first without reservations. I bet the comm between the FAC and the Pilot was something like "yeah, that stupid looking building with the gold dome, no, 500 pounder too little, giv'em the good stuff."
#4
Damn right it's about time. The lives of our servicemen and women are way more important than any f'ing temple of hate. It reminds me of that AC-130 gunship video from Afghanistan where the crew is told not to touch the mosque--which is crawling with cockroaches. Forget the cultural sensitivities. This is war. The enemy should NEVER feel safe wherever they are.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/07/2004 9:18 Comments ||
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#5
Not particularly sensible, but good to see the gloves are off at last.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
04/07/2004 9:19 Comments ||
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#9
RC: Fair play - knew I'd be savaged as soon as I made the last post. I presume that the Marines have a different approach than other parts of the American services. I'm sure if it was Brits that were lynched I'd expect us to do the same.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
04/07/2004 9:38 Comments ||
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#10
Amen, brother. I'm tired of seeing the CPA and Military briefers fielding questions that always sound like invitations for the US to apologize. Apologize my ass .... we are out to kill a bunch of malcontents. Line 'em up, and we'll mow 'em down. We can make bullets faster than they can breed malcontents.
#13
...they killed the terrorists and left the building standing.
Well, with no roof, no interior walls, and all furnishings and inhabitants reduced to ash and stains, it may still be standing but it's a prime candidate for Bob Villa and "This Old Mosque".
Posted by: Dar ||
04/07/2004 9:52 Comments ||
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#15
I don't like the idea of bombing the mosques, but they pushed it too far. The rules of the game just changed. The ol' "ollie ollie in come free" just changed to - "ollie ollie incoming".
#17
These idiots are the ones screaming "HOLY WAR." Since that's what they want, its entirely appropriate to level any so-called "holy" site they use as a bunker.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
04/07/2004 10:00 Comments ||
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#18
result? The "insurgents" now know they aren't safe in the mosque...time to televise the "islamic heros" using human shields - play the PR game
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/07/2004 10:04 Comments ||
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#19
y'all seem to be assuming a mosque looks like a church, nave, apse, and all. IIUC, mosques typically have large unroofed internal courtyards. Sounds to me like they took out a bunch of terrs in the courtyard. What else does "high angle to minimize impact" mean?
#20
If Hitler had ben hidding in a church the Allies would have taken the proper action to kill or capture him.
It's the same with this fat Shi'ite terrorist rat, Moqtada Sadr! No matter the location of Sadr hit it and hit it again!
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
04/07/2004 10:10 Comments ||
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#21
More to the point, we bombed the Benedictine abbey at Mont Cassino flat, despite qualms about Catholic outrage at the time. Churches in Normandy suspected to be used by artillery spotters and forward observers were also levelled. Who gives a shit about a garden-variety mosque?
The Ali shrine in Najaf is a different story - kinda like that stand-off in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem a few years ago.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
04/07/2004 10:26 Comments ||
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#22
Mosque, schmosque, as they say. I didn't see the mullahs and their ilk getting excited over that bunch of Paleos shitting in the corners of the Church of the Nativity.
No, it's only Muslim holy sites that are out of bounds, and hence safe havens.
#24
RC: Fair play - knew I'd be savaged as soon as I made the last post. I presume that the Marines have a different approach than other parts of the American services.
It's not a matter of Marines vs. Army; it's a matter of the laws of war. Protected sites (mosques, libraries, hospitals, etc.) lose their protected status when combatants take shelter in them.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 10:29 Comments ||
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#25
Right yoiu are LH. Most locals Mosques look just like any other building no cross, moon, or star to tell what it is. The bad guys thought they were safe when they entered the mosque but they made it a legal target at that point. Too bad soooo sad!
#26
CNN In Fallujah, where U.S. Marines have been engaged in running battles with insurgents over the past 24 hours, a U.S. military source said U.S. forces dropped a 500-pound bomb on a wall near the Aziz al-Samarrai mosque.
#28
LH--Mosques, like churches, come in various shapes and sizes. You may be right about the open courtyard, but it's just as likely a simple building, too. Wish we could be privy to the AAR to get the full story!
Posted by: Dar ||
04/07/2004 10:32 Comments ||
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#29
Hey! I'm all for making mosques, museums and churches as santuaries (sp?) But if the people who hide in there think that they can use turn around and use them as some sort of untouchable fort - then blame them for violating the sanctity.
Posted by: B ||
04/07/2004 10:33 Comments ||
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#30
The bit about the 500 lb. bomb makes more sense to me than the helicopter-launched Hellfires as for attaining a high-angle impact. Am I correct in understanding that a Hellfire bores straight in as opposed to diving in steeply like an anti-ship missile?
Posted by: Dar ||
04/07/2004 10:38 Comments ||
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#31
My God, a dream come true. Finally, a mosque that combatants took shelter in was targeted. Unbelievable. And excellent!
#32
What you won't hear in the mainstream press (except perhaps in passing) is this: "Part of the wall surrounding the Abdul-Aziz al-Samarrai mosque was demolished, said AP reporter Abdul-Qader Saadi, though the mosque building was not damaged."
Five Marines had been shot from the mosque before commanders authorized the use of air power and laser-guided missiles against it. They had rejected the air attack several times, according to Marine officers and radio communications monitored from a command post by a Washington Post reporter.
"We've got to be careful," said one officer receiving a request for air support from the Marines around the mosque.
"We have some bad folks dug in," came the response. "They're creating a problem for us. What should we do? We need backup."
"We need regimental approval," came the reply.
Not long afterwards, a spokesman at the command post said the air support was authorized. A spokesman said the missiles were fired from a helicopter and a jet
#33
Don't fret people. If they have video of this, how much you wanna bet there was a crap load of secondary explosions, indicating this "Mosque" was really an arms depot.
Posted by: Rafael ||
04/07/2004 10:51 Comments ||
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#34
Hellfires are wire guided, Dar. Can be launched from the ground or air. Usually by helicopter. Means the gunner has to keep the target in sight until it impacts. Can come in at whatever angle the gunner desires... The bad guys should have known we'd be taking the gloves off after the desecrations... Go ahead and run. You'll just die tired!
Posted by: Jack Deth ||
04/07/2004 10:53 Comments ||
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#35
Dunno. The classic anti-armor Hellfire does a pop-and-top-hook downwards to take advantage of thinner top-hull armor. No idea whether they're modified for precision anti-personnel usage, I haven't been able to find anything on Google about it yet.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
04/07/2004 10:53 Comments ||
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#36
#22 Amen, mojo. Next!
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
04/07/2004 10:54 Comments ||
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#37
Well, now we know why Sadr left the Mosque in Bahgdad. Think someone tipped him off that we were considering hitting the Mosque?
Posted by: Charles ||
04/07/2004 10:56 Comments ||
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Posted by: Dar ||
04/07/2004 11:03 Comments ||
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#40
Zeyad has another good post up at Healing Iraq:
"No one knows where it is all heading. If this uprising is not crushed immediately and those
militia not captured then there is no hope at all. If you [I assume he means the coalition] even consider negotiations or appeasement, then we are all doomed."
Posted by: Matt ||
04/07/2004 11:06 Comments ||
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#41
And in contrast to Zeyad, whose butt is on the line here, John Kerry took a break from counting his money to say:
"We can't allow this to continue," Mr. Kerry said, meeting with reporters on Monday. "There has to be a political, diplomatic solution which, regrettably, this administration seems stubbornly determined to avoid."
(Per Silent Running.)
Posted by: Matt ||
04/07/2004 11:10 Comments ||
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Posted by: Frank G ||
04/07/2004 12:00 Comments ||
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#43
I can't believe even Kerry would be that stupid. I suggest we arrange a trip over there for him, and let him go meet with them to negotiate with them.
Posted by: Lil Dhimmi ||
04/07/2004 12:04 Comments ||
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#44
LD -- You really can't believe Kerry's that stupid? I have two words for you: "Winter Soldier". That's how stupid Kerry is; nothing out of his mouth surprises me.
BTW -- anyone know what happened to Kerry's promised "fact-finding" trip to Iraq? Did he drop it?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 12:29 Comments ||
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#45
Re #32, growler - I'm sure this is SOP and I don't doubt for a second that there's some guy whose job is to make the PC argument to "moderate" the decision process. But this is war - and the accomplishment of the mission and the lives of those at the point of the spear must come first. Somebody needs their ass kicked for denying them the assist they rightly asked for, yet expected them to complete the mission without it. He is a fucktard and should be demoted to slick sleeve and put on the line so he can recall what it's like to have his ass on the line. Obviously too much time has elapsed since he ate some dust and felt the adrenaline of a real soldier. Send him back to "Go!" - he needs a refresher.
#46
.com -- sounds more to me like the officer recognized that the decision to target a mosque was (in Iraq) both a tactical and a political one, and bumped it up the chain of command to a level that had the authority to make the political decision. I note that the article doesn't say how long it took to get the mission authorized -- if the air resources had to be called in anyway, it may not have had any significant effect on the timing of the mission.
#47
snellenr - Good point. When the shit's flying, the time it takes to hook everyone up in the chain of command, plus the time for them to decide, is an eternity. 2 or 3 minutes is your ass, usually, so this political shit needs to be ejected out the nearest airlock at the rarified command level. Such BS kills.
Just heard on Fox that they captured several Syrians in Fallujah, today. How neighborly of them to drop in!
It might be an effective ploy to toss a Damascus mission and a Teheran mission into the mix today and see if that puts a damper on the flow of arms and jihadis. Might as well fight the cause as well as the symptoms.
#48
BBC Maj Gen James Mattis, 1st Marine Division commander, defended the attack.
"If they barricade themselves inside a mosque, we are not going to care about the mosque any more than they do," said Gen Mattis, quoted by the AFP news agency.
#49
Same from Kimmet on Fox right now. Paraphrasing him... When they use a moskkk for violence, we will use Iraqi forces first, but if that doesn't work, the moskkk loses its religious significance and coalition forces will use necessary means.
#50
"Maj Gen James Mattis - "If they barricade themselves inside a mosque, we are not going to care about the mosque any more than they do"
-His call sign is Chaos-6. Known to be a tactical genius, developed the I MEF plan of attack up to Baghdad during OIF - this guy does not screw around.
#53
growler, I am NOT one to defend the "major media" (spit), but it seems that this is being reported; even the BBC said that the Marines took fire from the mosque first.
How that info is ignored and the incident is spun by the usual morons is a different matter, of course.
Posted by: Carl in N.H ||
04/07/2004 13:39 Comments ||
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#54
growler -- CBS news is reporting it that way. My co-worker thought I had gone (more) insane.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 13:40 Comments ||
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#55
Maj Gen Mattis -
Looks like a typical no-B.S. Senior Marine Officer. We are well represented there.
Bio :
http://www.usmc.mil/genbios2.nsf/0/35e4cf7347323b108525680800620eed?OpenDocument&Click=
The source said that attackers were firing at Marines from the wall and from inside the compound.
The wall was several hundred yards from the mosque, which was not damaged, the source said.
"We specifically did not target the mosque as we felt we could engage the enemy in the area with disciplined and well-aimed fire from our Marines without needing to cause extensive damage to the mosque and surrounding structures," the source said.
Muslims consider the entire mosque compound to be part of the mosque. If the building is full, worshippers gather on the grounds of the compound.
LH reflects smugly on his judgement about Mosque architecture and Marine tactics.
#57
"LH reflects smugly on his judgement about Mosque architecture and Marine tactics"
Heh. *I* understood your original point in #19, LH ! ;)
Posted by: Carl in N.H ||
04/07/2004 13:50 Comments ||
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#58
Lol, LH. Points happily awarded!!! That makes about a billion or so, by my count! Good on ya, bro! Indeed, most small town moskkks are "compounds" with an outer wall and (usually) more than one bldg. In bigger cities there are many moskkks and the compound is more unusual, unless it's one of those mega-holy shrine things.
Marines making incursions toward Fallujah's city center on Wednesday battled gunmen in the streets. Mosque loudspeakers blared calls for jihad, or holy war, and women were seen carrying guns in the streets.
This makes mosque's and gun carrying women valid targets to me.
'Everyone in That Mosque Was an Insurgent'
U.S. Marines attacked two mosques in Fallujah only after coming under enemy fire from inside the buildings, said Lt. James Vanzant, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force from Camp Pendleton, Calif. Pentagon officials said the mosques sustained no significant damage.
"Everyone in that mosque was an insurgent," Vanzant said referring to claims that 40 people were killed inside.
#63
ABC News Headline: U.S. troops battling a fierce uprising have reportedly fired missiles from a helicopter gunship at a packed mosque, killing dozens. The hit comes amid a rising G.I. death toll and follows calls for jihad against Americans.
Makes it sound like the occupants were woshipers...
Story: The strike came as worshippers had gathered for afternoon prayers....
#65
"The strike came as worshippers had gathered for afternoon prayers...."
OK, but why were they carrying puppies and baby ducks with them? And how did we miss the hospital and the orphanage? This must be the conservative reporter for ABC.
Posted by: Matt ||
04/07/2004 14:14 Comments ||
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#66
ABC Report?
"Gathering for afternoon prayers."
O Allah, let not my AK47 jam!
#67
-yeah right, gathered for prayers while a firefight ensued outside, use your head ABC - they were either insurgents, sympathizers, or just plain stupid. I'll believe Lt Vanzant's version over ABC.
The Bad Guys, ye olde jihadis, are Islamic Calipahte Loonies. They are, or will at least appear to be, the most devout of all of the Muslims. If they go to the Moskkk at prayer time, well hell - that's just a target-rich opportunity! Ace the lot of them if you can. Fuck this PC noise! Just who the hell do the Press think we're fighting? We're fighting Muslim jihadis. Sheesh, what a quagmire of non-thinking LLL twits!
#69
CBS News: Coalition troops battling a two-pronged insurgency clashed with Iraqis in at least six cities Wednesday, and one radical cleric warned his country could become "the next Vietnam."
#72
Isn't Rather SeeBS's chief talking head? Didn't he make his name in Vietnam?
Ya know, I'm in my early thirties. I remember Rather and the crew at 60 Minutes being on the air when I was a kid. Isn't it time they retired and made room for some younger people? Same goes for Jennings -- I remember HIM from my teen years. Isn't it time to move on?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/07/2004 14:47 Comments ||
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#73
Ya know, I'm in my early thirties. I remember Rather and the crew at 60 Minutes being on the air when I was a kid.
I'm in my early forties, and I remember the same thing.
#74
If they barricade themselves inside a mosque, we are not going to care about the mosque any more than they do
Bottom line - In truth, Islamofacists have no frame of reference to our Marines. They just don't get it. Drop your arms, go home, live -- fight, on, but don't expect to be greeted by the virgins.
#76
AP has more on mosques and Marines
Kimmit reports that at first mosque, where airpower was used, the minaret was damaged but not destroyed. At a second mosque, taken by USMC ground forces,a Marine climbed the minaret to fire on insurgents, the insurgents then fired RPGs at the minaret, destroying it.
#77
The mosques are more like political "offices" or "community centers" used for political indoctrination purposes. Typically, after the Islamotwerps dutifully recite the expected lines of "prayer", it's time for speeches. The fiery speeches are about the evils done against Islam by America, etc., and how the "worshippers" are not real men or Moslems if they don't get out and fight.
This would certainly blow the minds of many in the West who have at least some experience with American churches or synagogues, where political speech is kept to a minimum most of the time, and the kinds of diatribes that go on in the mosques are completely unheard of. THAT's why the media can spin the story. People are drawing on their own personal experience of "houses of worship," and haven't got a clue that the mosques are so different.
#78
ex-lib - ive heard sermons at Synagogues in America with everything from diatribes against the govt of Israel for being too mean to the Pals, too diatribes against the govt of Israel for being too easy on the Pals, against the govt of Israel for favoring the Orthodox, and for allowing the Orthodox to be persecuted (this after the Rabin assasination) they tend to be more circumspect on US politics, at least as regards specific pols, evidently they dont think they can get away with being as overtly political as, say, black churches are. Nonetheless plenty of diatribes about all kinds of issues, from the environment to abortion.
#79
The AFP is in their "French" mode : "...a marine officer was later forced to admit that US forces had failed to find any bodies in the mosque.
Forced to admit? AFP was later forced to admit that Lt Col Byrne said that insurgents may have dragged off the bodies.
#80
LH: Admittedly, I don't frequent synagogues. Haven't been in one for about twenty years. But, nevertheless, I'm not talking about the types of diatribes you listed. I'm talking about the "let's get out and kill the infidels right now and you'll find some guns and suicide vests out in the lobby" types of diatribes.
#82
ex-lib - to make a working link in a comment, you have to have some highlighted text when you click the link button and fill in the URL - it will wrap the HTML tags around the text you had highlighted and make it "hot".
The official press release
CAMP FALLUJAH, Iraq â I Marine Expeditionary Force continued to execute Operation Vigilant Resolve yesterday throughout the Al Anbar Province and in several cities known to harbor anti-Iraqi forces.
Operations from the Syrian border to the Baghdad suburbs have resulted in the capture or death of a significant number of anti-Iraqi Forces and foreign terrorists. To the west, a combination of the ongoing efforts in the Husaybah and Al Qaâim regions are undercutting the ability of the anti-Iraqi Forces to import foreign fighters, cash and equipment. Heightened operations to the east, to include the cordon around Fallujah and combat operations in other major cities in the Al Anbar Province, are drawing out anti-Iraqi Forces.
Establishing a persistent presence in areas where U.S. forces have not consistently operated over the last 12 months has been costly. Operations as they unfolded yesterday in Ar Ramadi were shadowed by the loss of 12 Marines. Eleven Marines died while engaged with the anti-Iraqi Forces for more than seven hours; one died from wounds suffered during the firefight.
The increase in the number of attacks on Coalition Forces in the Al Anbar Province is attributable to the I Marine Expeditionary Forceâs strategy toheighten their profile, operate throughout the zone and challenge anti-Iraqi Forces in place where theyâve gained influence.
The citizens of Ar Ramadi remained in their homes during the engagement. Several calls from Iraqi citizens to the Coalition tip line aided Coalition Forces in identifying, isolating and combating the terrorists. Throughout the fight, members of the Iraqi Police Service and Iraqi Civil Defense Corps soldiers secured key city government facilities and helped control traffic in and out of the city. When the fighting subsided, Ar Ramadi remained under the supervision of the governor of the province, the chief of police and the Iraqi security forces.
As of 8 p.m. yesterday, the Iraqi Police Services and Iraqi Civil Defense Corps were providing security for the residents of Ar Ramadi. Coalition Forces are monitoring the situation and ready to provide support in the event that terrorists resume hostilities.
The names of the dead are being withheld pending next of kin notification.
#1
Sounds like this Islamic 'Tet' is quickly becoming a wash for Sadr and company... I wonder how many of the dead will prove to be Syrian and Iranian?
Posted by: Jack Deth ||
04/07/2004 10:35 Comments ||
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#2
I heard a report last night that we intercepted comms from Fallujah that were in Farsi (which is what the Iranians speak).
Posted by: Tibor ||
04/07/2004 10:44 Comments ||
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#3
Sofar 5 Iranians iced in Karballa and according to the commandpost and the professor some Syrians have been captured.
#4
Listening to the radio yesterday, the show had a CBS news segment. During the news, Dan "The Dem" Rather delivers an "editorial" about how things are going in Iraq, about "hard truths" and how certain people in power don't want you to know those "hard truths". Things aren't going well, he said, but in the end its up to the American people to decide.
Well, this American says: STFU DAN! I was pissed that CBS can even pretend to be an impartial news agency with him as its primary anchor is pathetic ! Thank God for the internet, Thank God for Rantburg.
#5
I was watching MSMakeMePEE and the talking head was practically panting. The "expert" was saying how this could all go out of control. Lots of sky is falling crap. These assholes want us to lose. They won't get it until the Jihadis come into their studio and shoot them.
Posted by: remote man ||
04/07/2004 13:13 Comments ||
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#6
Dan is trying to be the Walter Cronkite of this Tet offensive but he doesn't have the stature, not even close.
Anyone know why this military website doesn't have a .mil designation?
#7
Rupercht: I think that the answer to your question in word "Combined." In military jargon, this means "Allied." My guess is that since this site serves more than one nation, someone made a conscious decsion to not host it on the US military network, therefore avoiding criticism of the coalition being a US-run facade. Unfortunately, you have to do these sort of contortions when dealing with a press trying to sharpshoot you for every little flaw.
From Associated Press...
KARBALA - Militiamen loyal to a radical Shiite cleric clashed with Polish troops Wednesday in this holy city, and an aide to the cleric was killed, his office reported. Fighters from the militia of cleric Moqtada al-Sadr fired on a Polish patrol in Karbala, sparking a gunbattle in the streets. During the fighting, al-Sadr aide Muntadhir al-Mussawi — who is also a cleric — was killed, his office said. Later, mourners carried away his body, chanting, "Today we will free Karbala from the Jews."
Posted by: Lux ||
04/07/2004 8:25:13 AM ||
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#1
Polish troops have killed the head of militant Iraqi cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's office in Kerbala during clashes in the holy Shi'ite city, Iraqi police say. Police spokesman Rahman Mashawi told Reuters on Wednesday Murtada al-Mussawi, who ran Sadr's Kerbala office, was killed in fighting with Polish troops in the centre of town. There was no immediate comment from Polish forces, who head a multinational division in the area.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/07/2004 9:20 Comments ||
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#3
Fighters from the militia of cleric Moqtada al-Sadr fired on a Polish patrol in Karbala, sparking a gunbattle in the streets. During the fighting, al-Sadr aide Muntadhir al-Mussawi â who is also a cleric â was killed, his office said. Later, mourners carried away his body, chanting, "Today we will free Karbala from the Jews."
The Mehdi army expresses racist hate for the Jews, and the Mehdi army is fought, vigourously and effectively, by the army of POLAND!!!!!
We Shall Not Forget!!! Victory to Polish Arms!!! The battle of Karbala continues.
#6
more help from Kerry's: "coalition of the bribed"
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/07/2004 10:35 Comments ||
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#7
From Fox News (scroll down to 'Also at this hour'):
â Polish troops killed the head of militant Iraqi Cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's (search) office in Kerbala during clashes in the holy Shi'ite city, Iraqi police said. But Arab networks reported that "a member" -- not the head -- of al-Sadr's office was killed.
#8
Of course the Arab networks would say it was just a member. They are nothing but propoganda outlets. Read Zayed's post and his reference to Al Jazeera. Assholes.
Posted by: remote man ||
04/07/2004 13:16 Comments ||
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SHIITE militia in Iraq are preparing to launch simultaneous attacks on coalition forces on Good Friday that could also target foreign civilians working in Iraq, an Italian newspaper reported today.
Citing Italyâs military intelligence service SISMI, the report said militia would use rockets and car bombs to launch simultaneous attacks on coalition forces to mark the anniversary of the fall of Saddam Husseinâs regime on April 9.
Corriere della Sera also claims SISMI has warned that foreign civilians in Iraq, particularly those working for non-governmental organisations, may be the target of attempted hostage taking by the militia groups.
The newspaper said intelligence services were particularly concerned about threats against Barbara Contini, the Italian representative on the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA).
The newspaper also said the SISMI believed Iran was playing a role in the revolt by militiamen of radical Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadr.
"The presence of Iranian agents and military instructors has been noted in several Iraq cities, mainly in the Shiite holy cities of Najaf and Kerbala, as well as in the north of the country, in Mosul."
Posted by: tipper ||
04/07/2004 6:32:28 AM ||
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#1
Hope we capture some of this Iranians,and parade thier ass far and wide and often.
#2
Gee, aren't they afraid offending our sensibilities and culture on a religious holiday?
You know, like the lefties were all worried about us doing to them during Ramadan?
Didn't think so.
#4
If they want to come out into the open and play. Fine! Not many get to see an up close and personal demonstration of firepower raining down from Spectre gunships and Apache, Cobra and Little Bird helicopters!
Posted by: Jack Deth ||
04/07/2004 10:43 Comments ||
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#3
I'd say this a strategic ooportunity like the battle of the Bulge rather than Tet...there is nt an endless supply of these guys...and it is nt clear that the Sunni fighters have anything more than minority support.We'll see.
#4
oK...I admit that this whole "tet" thing escapes me. It seems to me to be some sort of desperate attempt by the Clinton/Kerry/WeWishItWere1970Again team to rephrase "quagmire"
Cluebat: It's not working guys. I don't know what Tet is and I'm just not interested enough to google it. Worse, I'm quite sure I'm not alone on this. Stick to quagmire. It's easier for us plebeians to grasp and it's just as ineffective.
Posted by: B ||
04/07/2004 10:22 Comments ||
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U.S. troops armed with photographs have captured a number of people in the restive city of Falluja in Iraq in a search for those responsible for an ambush that killed four American security guards there last week, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Tuesday.
"The (U.S.) forces have cordoned off the city. They have photographs of a good many people who were involved in the attacks against the individuals and they have been conducting raids in the city against high-value targets," Rumsfeld told reporters in Norfolk, Virginia.
"They have captured a number of people over the last 36 hours. The city is isolated. A number of people have resisted and been have killed. It will be a methodical effort to find the individuals who were involved," he added. but its sill a confusing and mistake ridden process. We request that next time al Jazeera request that the perpetrators of sensless violence stand next to two vertically standing yardsticks taped end-to-end
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/07/2004 4:30:33 AM ||
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#1
No need to be "unilateral" - meter sticks will be acceptable as well.
EFL
Pakistani officials said the military raids in the South Waziristan tribal area, which involved several thousand troops and helicopter attacks on village compounds, dismantled a nest of foreign Islamic terrorists and their local supporters. Officials said 163 people were arrested, at least 70 of them foreigners. But the army withdrew from the area last week, after eight captured soldiers and two local officials were found executed. A council of regional tribesmen negotiated the release of 12 hostages in exchange for the military pullout. "The militants suffered casualties, but in the end they dictated the conditions and won the day," said Afrasiab Khattak, a human rights activist in Peshawar. "The situation is very dangerous now, because if they can stop the army in one place, they can launch attacks somewhere else."
In the wake of retreating troops, tribal militants have reportedly returned to several villages demolished by the armed forces near the town of Wana, distributing tents to the homeless and leaflets warning people not to collaborate with the government, according to residents reached by telephone and other sources. The visitors were said to include Naik Mohammed, a Waziri tribesman who was one of two men leading the fierce resistance to Pakistani troops in March. Now officially a fugitive, Mohammed is described as a brash young fighter who once commanded guerrillas supporting Taliban forces in Afghanistan. "Naik is a confident and daring young man. Many people have seen him in [the Wana area] in the past several days. He seems willing to do anything, perhaps because he imagines a violent end," said Rahimullah Yusufzai, a journalist in Peshawar who said he had spoken to Mohammed several times by phone in the past week.
The government has not yet identified any of the killed or captured militants, making it impossible to confirm such descriptions. But whoever they turn out to be, the clashes of recent weeks and the continuing tensions have opened up a broader debate over whether Pakistanâs tribal agencies need to be radically modernized or even abolished.
Sounds like a good idea to me...
The tribal region, largely outside state control and off limits to all foreigners, is described by critics as little more than a haven for outlaws, a wilderness where smuggling, feuds and primitive vengeance flourish. Visitors are kidnapped for ransom, and contraband, from Afghan opium to Korean televisions, pours across the border. Profits go to tribal bosses and corrupt bureaucrats, while many of the regionâs 6 million inhabitants languish in a state of illiteracy and neglect.
Sounds like Emma Goldman country...
The governmentâs system for combating tribal crime is antiquated as the area itself: a colonial system of administration in which local officials, called political agents, dictate draconian punishments against entire tribes for crimes committed by their members. They can demolish houses, seal shops, levy fines and jail suspected troublemakers without charge. "The political agents act like God," Khattak said. "The real resistance to change comes not from the tribals but from the bureaucracy, because fabulous amounts of money are made. The tribal areas need to have courts and civic institutions if they are to become a part of modern society. You cannot bring in the coercive part of the state without bringing in the empowering part as well."
Make that Emma Goldman with the very worst of the raj.
Critics have also urged that local elections be held in the tribal agencies, which only have the right to elect representatives to the national Parliament. In South Waziristan, conservative Islamic parties have dominated power in the absence of secular political activity, providing a wide base of support for the armed Islamic groups. "If local elections were announced in South Waziristan today, there would be no Islamic parties, no al Qaeda and no disturbances," said Ghani Gul Mehsud, a businessman from the Khyber Agency and an activist in the Pakistan Peopleâs Party. "The people are illiterate and the mullahs use the rallying cry of holy war, when what the tribal areas need are industry, roads and education." Most tribal leaders adamantly defended the traditional system, arguing that any state interference would destroy tribal culture.
Seems like that's a pretty good idea...
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
04/07/2004 3:15:46 AM ||
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So basically these tribal areas are just a bunch of gangsters and warlords running their rackets and raking in a lot of money, with a fascade of Islam. RoPMA.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/07/2004 11:46 Comments ||
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#3
Analogous titles might be: Elliot Ness extremely unpopular in Chicago, Fidel Castro has a low approval rating in Miami or Ted Kennedy not as popular as his brothers were in Texas.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/07/2004 20:20 Comments ||
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#4
Sounds more like Texas to me--an insanely radical minority controlling the state--setting election protocol on its ear (Thanks Mr DelAy)
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
04/07/2004 22:58 Comments ||
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#5
Things kinda slow at BlogFoeAmerica tonight? Wott! Woot! Dean 44!
Debka, so you decide whether this is based on real intelligence or not. EFL The third day of Moqtada Sadrâs radical Shiite uprising saw US-led coalition forces under attack by both Sunnis and Shiites and the first extremely dangerous sign of a merger between the two fronts. DEBKAfileâs military sources report that US-led forces, instead of beginning to get a grip on the armed Shiite militia uprising in Baghdad and four cities, appeared to be letting command slip out their hands.
The failure to move fast enough to nab Sadr may be as costly as was the escape from capture of Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan in November 2001and of Saddam Hussein in March 2003. Al-Sadr matches neither in stature. He also represents no more than a splinter faction of the Shiite community. Yet if he proves able lead an effective underground resistance to the coalition for a critical period, he could attract a disproportionately large number of Shiite followers to his flag. It might be enough for him to keep going for another five days to a week without being caught or stopped, for the Americans to find themselves in the midst of a full-blown war. I initially dismissed the idea that they could loose control so quickly, but changed my mind when I thought about how states lose control. It always happens within a few days and its a perception issue. Think back to Eastern Europe and the fall of communism.
The firebrand cleric and his Mehdi Army militia went into action in three rapid phases:
Stage One: Early Tuesday, April 6, he melted out of his headquarters in the Kufa mosque near Najef and went to ground.
Stage Two: Simultaneously, his militia moved in on the police stations and government buildings of one town after another in southern Iraq.
Stage Three: Tuesday afternoon, shortly after US Marines entered Fallujah to collar the men responsible for the brutal murder of four US contractors last week, fresh Shiite militiamen were drawn from the Sunni Triangle towns of Baquba, Balad, Samarra and Al Muqdaryah to launch a ferocious assault on the US Marine compound in Ar Ramadi, 40 km east of Fallujah. At least 12 US Marines were killed and 20 injured in this assault. Well Debka are either right or wrong about this and we will find out soon enough, but no one else seems to be saying AR is Shiites.
This development represents an ominous turning-point in the Iraqi conflict for four reasons:
1. It was almost certainly coordinated with the Sunni Baathists, imported Arabs and al Qaeda combatants battling US Marines in Fallujah in order to draw off American military pressure in Fallujah and threaten the Marines from the rear.
2. Instead of al Qaeda striking Shiites to inflame civil war - as predicted by some US strategists â Shiites apparently turned up in Ramadi to fight the Americans in cahoots with Sunni insurgents and al Qaeda combatants. This show of solidarity makes the Sunni Triangle of central Iraq, including Baghdad, a doubly hazardous and unruly region
4. The Sadrist revolt looks therefore like having taken hold in three major regions of Iraq: The Sunni Triangle, Baghdad and the South.
As for the other fronts:
Baghdad. By Tuesday night, US forces had not regained control of the sprawling Shiite districts of the capital, except for some police stations, and the sounds of fighting were rising in intensity.
The South. Sadrâs militia captured Diwaniya 30 km east of Najef after beating back repeated Spanish attempts backed by US helicopters to recover control.This is the first Iraqi town to fall to Sadrâs forces, a situation that is totally unacceptable to the US command. If complete Iraqi towns continue falling into Shiite or Sunni insurgent hands, the US and coalition forces will quickly lose control of the country.
In Karbala, al Amara and Nassiriyeh, the Mehdi Army captured buildings in the town centers. In Karbala, US and Polish forces failed to repulse the Shiite attackers; likewise the Italian troops in Nasseriyah. In Al Amarah near the Iranian border north of Basra, British contingents using helicopter gunships, tanks and artillery failed to break the Shiite Sadristsâ grip on the town center.
At the end of Day Three of the radical Shiite uprising, therefore, the score was not in the coalitionâs favor. The overall thrust of the article fits with my view that the fighting is a lot fiercer than a series of sponteous and largely uncoordinated attacks would be, and the Iranians are behind this big time. Funding anyone who will cause trouble in Iraq.
Posted by: Phil B ||
04/07/2004 2:33:30 AM ||
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You are partly correct with you analysis Phil, but instead of thinking that Iran is behind (could be partly possible, I don't know) the upsurge of resistance you must not forget that underground resistance forces have had time to organise themselves. Especially in the villages there are no coalition forces (they are concentrated in the cities) to gain full control over Iraq, the result is that resistance / militia forces who control the towns do gain muscles and slip into the cities.
Posted by: Murat ||
04/07/2004 3:40 Comments ||
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question : why else would Sadr mention that 'they are now the arm of Hamas & Hezbollah in Irak' if his guys didn't have support from Iran ?
#3
Iyot, I am not saying they have not, but support alone is not enough to organise resistance, they (Iraqis) be it Suni or Shia are in control of the villages while coalition forces control the cities. In the villages they have almost free hand and can recruit supporters and organise them. What I wanted to point out is that resistance can't be eradicated without controlling also the countryside, the limited number of coalition troops limits the control only to control over the big cities.
To make a plain comparisson Vietnam is a good example, the Vietcong controlled the countryside and jungle, that was their force. In Iraq it is comparable, if militia / resistance forces control the countryside (and they do), than it is almost impossible to stop the bloodshed and restoring order, even if Fallujah would be flattened completely it wont stop the insurgence.
Posted by: Murat ||
04/07/2004 5:22 Comments ||
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Dear Murat:
I'm not saying your analysis is correct, but I remember you writing on the significance of Village life and politics in this conflict about a year ago. It is nice to see you making positive contribution again.
#5
Militaries need supplies, lots of them.
For them to maintain a successful insurgency, they need what LIC refers to as "an untouchable base of supply". In this case, they think they have one in Iran.
Not only the village life but also the tribal life is important in this case, the big wrong of the US or coalition forces are that they concentrate to much on Sadr or religious groups, while the actual power lies within the tribal societies.
For an American it is hard to understand the Middle East structures. Let me try to describe it this way Sadr gets his strength from tribes (better said tribal leaders) who support him, the big fish is not Sadr but a dozen or so tribal leaders. Neutralizing them would neutralize the whole resistance.
As long as the US lacks the needed intelligence (the biggest failure this far) she wont be able to quell the upsurge of insurgency. To my opinion the US has failed to ally enough tribal leaders what would have been far more effective than relying on Spanish, Italian etc. etc. coalition troops.
Posted by: Murat ||
04/07/2004 7:13 Comments ||
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Grain of salt time, it's DEBKA after all.
Murat, Sadr has little or no tribal support. They call him "the Iranian". And the Shia tribes suffered just as much as the Sunnis did in the war with Iran.
This is an attempt at a Tet, and it will end as Tet did, with the Tikrit thugs and Sadr's thugs wiped out. The Kurd and mainstream Sunni and Shia militias are sitting this one out, waiting for June 30. That's what Sadr should have done.0.
#8
All reports Ive seen indicate that this is essentially an urban revolt, with the villages largely quiet. I presume this is largely driven by the interplay of class and religion among the Shiites, with the relatively conservative villagers largely loyal to Sistani, as are the urban middle classes. Sadr gets more support from the more radicalized urban working classes. Nothing clear on the Shiite tribal leaders. It DOES seem that in Iraq (as elsewhere in the region) tribal loyalty typically extends into at least the smaller cities, not just the rural areas. Ive seen nothing to indicate significant tribal loyalty in a large city like Baghdad.
#9
I know I'm a little late for this discussion, but Murat, you may want to double-check how much in both material and manpower the Viet Cong got from the North way-back-when; in particular, after Tet depleted their manpower, they relied heavily on NVA regulars to fill out their ranks. Most of their arms/ammunition/etc. came from the North, via the Ho Chi Minh trail (plus some coming in over the water, both in the early days, and via Cambodia in the later days); and finally, the NVA itself attacked during the Tet offensive and other offensives. For the N. Vietnamese, the guerilla war wasn't an isolated strategy, but part of an overall strategy that involved lots of more conventional military action, including attacks by mechanized units. I just thought I'd be a little pedantic, what with all the Tet Analogies going around...
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
04/07/2004 23:50 Comments ||
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Banned militant groups Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LJ) and Sipah-e-Muhammad are resurfacing in Punjab amid growing tensions between defunct parties Tehrik-e-Islami Pakistan (TIP) and Millat-e-Islamia Pakistan (MIP), sources in law enforcement agencies told Daily Times. âThe TIP and MIP are now working under new names, Millat-e-Jafria (MJ) and Sunni Action Committee (SAC),â sources added. They said law enforcement agencies had dismantled the Sipah-e-Muhammad network in Punjab and many of its terrorists were killed or escaped abroad but now new activists had revived the organisation with Lahore, Multan and Bhakkar the centres of their activity. âThe Sipah-e-Muhammadâs new cadres also have support from some Shia parties and prominent leaders to avenge the murder of Shias in Quetta and Karachi,â law enforcement sources said, and added that Sipah-e-Muhammad terrorists were also planning to target prominent Sunni leaders.
âThe LJ has an elaborate network which could not be eliminated despite the killing of its important leaders. Reports suggests that the organisation is continuously recruiting the new cadre,â sources said. Divisions within the MIP after Maulana Azam Tariqâs murder have also encouraged the LJâs revival. The MIP is currently divided into three groups, one led by Maulana Muhammad Ahmad Ludhyanvi, another by Maulana Alam Tariq, the younger brother of Azam Tariq, and the third by Maulana Ali Sher Haideri. "Divisions in the MIP are causing disappointment among workers and reportedly many have joined the LJ to continue the mission of Maulana Jhangvi and Maulana Azam Tariq,â sources said. They said a group, Lashkar-e-Tariq, formed in Jhang to avenge Maulana Azam Tariqâs death and had also joined the LJ. Sources said some groups in the MIP were encouraging the LJ to target Shias to win worker support. After the fall of Taliban in Afghanistan, the LJ was also involved in attacks on foreigners and Christian missionaries, but sources said the current scenario was forcing the LJ to revert to its past sectarian agenda. Sources said while Punjab had recently remained safe from major sectarian attacks, most of the terrorists involved in attacks on Shias in Quetta and Karachi belonged to Punjab. âBut the LJ will concentrate on Punjab now, as its network finds its feet,â they said. âLaw enforcement agencies are vigilant,â law enforcement sources said.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
04/07/2004 1:47:43 AM ||
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Sheik Muqtada al-Sadr, the fiery Iraqi Shi'ite cleric who ordered his fanatical militia to attack coalition troops, is being supported by Iran and its terror surrogate Hezbollah, according to military sources with access to recent intelligence reports.
Sheik al-Sadr's bid to spark a widespread uprising in Iraq comes at a particularly pivotal time. The United States is conducting a massive troop rotation that leaves inexperienced troops in some locations, including Fallujah, which is west of Baghdad and where Sunnis have mounted another series of rebellions. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said yesterday that he will consider more U.S. forces for Iraq if his top commander there, Gen. John Abizaid, requests them. There are about 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, and the force strength is scheduled to shrink by 15,000 once the rotation is completed. "The commanders are using the excess of forces that happen to be in there because of the deployment process," Mr. Rumsfeld told reporters. "They will decide what they need, and they will get what they need."
Sheik al-Sadr, who has traveled to Iran and met with its hard-line Shi'ite clerics, is an ardent foe of the United States who wants all foreign troops to leave. The United States suspects that his goal is to create a hard-line Shi'ite regime in Iraq modeled after Tehran's government. Military sources said Sheik al-Sadr is being aided directly by Iran's Revolutionary Guard, which plays a large role in running that country, and by Hezbollah, an Iranian-created terrorist group based in Lebanon.
One of the sources said these two organizations are supplying the cleric with money, spiritual support and possibly weapons. "Iran does not want a success in Iraq," the source said. "A democratic Iraq is a death knell to the mullahs." Sheik al-Sadr upped the ante during the weekend by calling for his 3,000-strong militia, the Army of the Mahdi, to begin attacking coalition forces. His fiery words touched off attacks throughout southern Iraq. The Coalition Provisional Authority in Baghdad announced on Monday that an Iraqi judge months ago had issued an arrest warrant for Sheik al-Sadr on a charge of murdering a moderate Shi'ite cleric. The question for U.S. commanders is how to arrest Sheik al-Sadr without further enraging his small but violent group of followers.
"Let the Iraqis kill him," said retired Air Force Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney. "We should not kill him, but we may have to. He's trying to create an uprising. This is their Tet offensive. We're going to kill a lot of them just like we did at Tet."
John Hillen, a former Army captain who fought in Operation Desert Storm during the 1991 Persian Gulf war, said the first step should be to try to discredit the cleric, using the condemnation of moderate Shi'ite leaders, before arresting him. "You need to defuse the situation," Mr. Hillen said. "You need to make it Iraqi versus Iraqi. You've got to discredit him by his own people and find legitimate sources on our side. Make this as much a Shi'ite-to-Shi'ite issue as opposed to the Americans versus Sadr."
The U.S. military is trying new tactics to try to quell insurgents in Fallujah, avoiding time-consuming house-to-house sweeps in favor of targeted raids based on hard intelligence. When the 82nd Airborne Division first tried to subdue Fallujah in the summer, units went block by block to locate insurgents. Now, in the second intense battle for the city of Saddam Hussein loyalists, intelligence collection has improved and U.S. Marines can target specific dwellings.
"The plan is not to go house to house, street to street. We are trying to get insurgents," Capt. Ed Sullivan told Agence France-Presse. Mr. Hillen said such precision operations mean that the Marines are getting good intelligence. "If you have good intelligence beforehand, which is the key to the whole Fallujah-type operations, you can at the same time be precise and overwhelming. We've been in and around Fallujah for quite some time, and I'm sure we have some pretty good intelligence sources there."
"They have photographs of a good many people who were involved in the attacks against the individuals, and they have been conducting raids in the city against high-value targets," Mr. Rumsfeld said. "They've captured a number of people over the past 36 hours. The city is isolated. A number of people have resisted and been killed. And it will be a methodical effort to find the individuals who were involved."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/07/2004 1:08:40 AM ||
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Time to strike Irainian RG bases and supply depots.Then bounce the rubble.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
04/07/2004 10:11 Comments ||
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It's interesting that this uprising comes at a time that pressure is increasing on Iran about its nuclear weapons programs. It seems somewhat inopportune for Sadr, as his chances of success would have been much higher sometime in the future after our troop rotations were completed and possible troop level drawdowns went into affect. My bet is the Iranians pushed this up so they can distract the coalition from their final push to a nuke. The Iranians will have nuke weapons within the next year or two unless they are attacked. It's too late for any sanctions to work.
#5
This example of "on the scene" reporting gives info that tells me that this is more than a little bit of irans hand:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2093154/entry/2098336/
Qotes:
In the courtyard I saw a man in an "Iran" tracksuit.
The head of the Badr Organization in Najaf, Hassan al-Battan, said he was worried, very worried. The Badr Organization, formerly the Badr Brigade, formerly based in Iran, also favors an informal uniform of black shirts and black trousers. It is the militia wing of SCIRI (the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq),
it seems to me that the people with the most to lose with a free iraq is iran.
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
04/07/2004 11:51 Comments ||
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As long as the borders of both Iran & Syria are not totally closed, which may be an impossible task, fanatical jihadists will continue filtering into Iraq and organizing murderous attacks on Coalition troops.
If Iran & Syria were stuck with numerous domestic 'problems' with the end result goal of overthrowing both rouge terrorist promoting states, this Iraq problem shall not become stable.
The OPEC oil profits of Iran & Saudi Arabia among other Muslim oil producers are fueling the Iraqi, Afghan and all other Muslim rebellions against the civilized world.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
04/07/2004 12:13 Comments ||
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It is very important to understand how much of a threat the Shia are in Iraq to the Shia in Iran.
The two religious cities of the Shia: Qom in Iran and Najaf in Iraq are controlled by different schools of thought. Qom sees the direct involvement of clerics in state ruling and executive affairs as their legitimate right and moral obligation while Najaf seminary's view of the Velayat-e-Faqih is that of a supervisor and adviser.
Senior Iraqi Sh'ite leader Abdul Majid al-Khoei was assassinated at the Imam Ali mosque in the holy city of Najaf by Sadr's goons. His father Ayatollah Mohammad Sadiq al-Sadr was assassinated here in 1999. According to Shia doctrine if you are buried in Najaf you will enter paradise; as a result, the tombs of several prophets are found in Najaf.
Is is well known that Sadr is very young and not a true cleric. He gets his support from his lineage, another important factor in the Shia version of Islam. He can be considered a direct proxy of Iran because he is directly backed by the clerics in Qom.
So by forcing Sadr's hand now with shuting down his newspaper and then arresting his aid, the US forced him to ack now instead of later. Doing so allows us to consolidate power to Sistani and his view of Velayat-e-Faqih.
I wasn't surprised that Sadr left his fortress and went to Najaf to 'console' with Sistani. If he is going to be martyred this is the place to be.
The United States has secretly flown Saddam Hussein out of Iraq and imprisoned him under high security at a vast American air base in the Gulf Arab state of Qatar.
Whole article requires paid subscription, and I'm certainly not paying for Fiskie. Anyone have a subscription?
Deposed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein is being held at a US military base in Qatar, rather than in Iraq. Following his capture by US forces in December last year, Saddam was first moved to a US aircraft carrier in the Gulf for interrogation, a British newspaper reported, without citing its sources. He was then -- at a time not specified by the report -- transferred to Qatar under great secrecy, with even the state's royal family not informed of his presence.
Major violence in Iraq over recent days which has seen more than 100 Iraqis killed as well as 20 coalition troops, meant Qatar was now seen as a far safer place to keep the ousted leader, the paper added. In December, Qatar's government dismissed earlier news reports that Saddam had been moved to the emirate, while Iraq's interim Governing Council insisted that he was still being held in Baghdad.
At the end of the last month, Saddam's wife left Syria for Qatar, according to a Jordanian lawyer who says she retained him to represent her husband.
I don't buy it.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/07/2004 1:10:17 AM ||
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"At the end of the last month, Saddam's wife left Syria for Qatar, according to a Jordanian lawyer who says she retained him to represent her husband."
Thirty rebels have surrendered in Chechnya, Artur Akhmadov, chief of the headquarters of the Chechen presidential security service, told Interfax on Tuesday. "This is the result of a long and painstaking operation which we and special service officers conducted with the rebels," Akhmadov said, adding that the rebels want to be amnestied. The surrendered rebels were members of various groups active in the Achkhoi-Martan, Urus-Martan, Nozhai-Yurt and some other districts in southern Chechnya. They have handed over all their weapons and munitions. "A special-purpose examination is currently in progress and an investigation is being conducted to determine each rebel's guilt and his crimes," he said. An official report on the rebels' surrender will be issued within the next ten days following the end of the investigation.
Special services are also working through mediators with rebels who were members of a group commanded by the former Chechen president's security chief Shaa Turlayev. "About 20 people are ready to leave their forest hideouts, stop their criminal activities and start living peacefully. But they want to see what will happen to Turlayev," he said. These people are obeying almost no orders from rebel commanders and are ready to follow the example of former Chechen Defense Minister Magomed Khambiyev and Turlayev, who turned themselves in to law enforcement authorities, Akhmadov said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/07/2004 1:07:39 AM ||
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via NewsMax - EFL / Fair Use
Tuesday, April 6, 2004 10:47 a.m. EDT
The Wall Street Journal editorial page urged President Bush on Tuesday to send a message to Iranian-based Shiite insurgents in Iraq by taking out Iranâs Bushehr nuclear plant. And maybe the other 5 related nuke mfg facilities would be good, too.
Warning that the U.S.-led coalition now has no choice but to use military force to break up the 10,000-man militia amassed by militant imam Moqtada el Sadr, the Journal advised, "It should also warn the Dawa Islamic political party that its dealings with Iran wonât be tolerated. Cuz, like, theyâre in another country and everything.
"As for Tehran, we would hope the Sadr uprising puts to rest the illusion that the mullahs can be appeased. ... If warnings to Tehran from Washington donât impress them, perhaps some cruise missiles aimed at the Bushehr nuclear site will concentrate their minds." Lol! It might do that, yeah.
...more...
Massive ClueBat Article from WSJ. Sounds good to me.
Posted by: .com ||
04/07/2004 1:07:59 AM ||
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#1
We, collectively, do not have the intestinal fortitude to do what the Israelis did several years back.
Launch 5 cruise missles and 5 to 10 JDAMs per site, and let's see what the black-hat Shit-tite mullahs do.
#2
Y'know, I've been thinking about this - and I've changed my mind. Doing what the WSJ sez is Clintonian - one of those stupid "Let's send a message, Boss! That'll show 'em!" half-assed responses that never shows anybody diddley-squat. Here you go and waste $20-$30 Million on spiffy missiles to send your big message and all they say is, "Huh?"
Instead, when someone sends a secret army across the border and they open fire on your troops, you should prolly just say, "Wow! That's an act of War! Mebbe, just mebbe, we should Declare War!" Now that's a message worthy of the name.
Take the Black Hats, Rev Guard, Doodah Council - and pretty much everything you can ID that has any remote connection with their nuke program, and ace the lot! Cruise, TLAM, B1, B2, B-52, A-6 - let everybody in on the fun!
Hell, let's really get crazy and let the Persians run Persia for awhile. They can certainly do no worse than the Mad Mullahs!
#5
Thank God they did it at Osirak!! Maybe they should do it again.
"In 1981, Israel exercised a preemptive air strike and destroyed Iraq's OSIRAK nuclear reactor. Israeli military assessments at the time indicated that Iraq was planning to assemble an invincible strategic machine that would inevitably allow Iraq to dominate Kuwait, the Gulf States, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and possibly Syria.
Naturally, Saddam Hussein promised to expunge Israel from the map. He saw himself-and still does-as the reincarnation of Saladin, the Muslim hero who expunged Christian crusaders from the Middle East 700 years ago.
At the time, Saddam was in the throes of a war he had started with neighboring Iran. Israel surgically took out this reactor just before it was to come on-line, incurring the world's wrath. President Reagan was furious with Israel. In retrospect, President Bush was probably thankful that Desert Shield and Desert Storm did not have to contend with an atomically armed Iraq. " http://www.khouse.org/articles/currentevents/19980201-95.html
#6
I think the truth about the Iranian backed Sadr revolt lies somewhat close to the Debka's analysis of the situation. It makes a lot of sense for the Mullahs to try and organise such a rebelion in order to divert the Americans from the fact that they are now putting the varnish on their new IIB (Iranian Islamic Bomb), and to torpedo any Iraqi democratic ideas from coming into fruition which may highly damage their own home position.
While GWB is understandably worried about opening another front with Iran before November 2004, I think that if he does not abandon his idea of letting the Iranian opposition topple the mullahs from within, and does not take bold active steps against the Iranians now, by November he may loose not only the elections but also the Battle for democratic Iraq and after that the entire WoT.
It is also my appreciation that Sharon's hands are too full now with the withdrawal from Gaza and with his own survival in the criminal investigation. I therefor think it is not reasonable to expect the IDF/IAF to deliver a repeat performance of the Osirak reactor bombing
at Bushehr and Natanz.
Bush has now got a really hot political and nuclear Iranian potato in his hands . He must address this now because time is not in his favor!
Posted by: The Dodo ||
04/07/2004 9:01 Comments ||
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#7
Naturally, Saddam Hussein promised to expunge Israel from the map. He saw himself-and still does-as the reincarnation of Saladin, the Muslim hero who expunged Christian crusaders from the Middle East 700 years ago.
Funny part about this is that Saladin was a Kurd. And Lord knows how Saddam treated the Kurds...
#8
Iran's fomenting (or directly contributing to) the unrest in Iraq represents casus belli. Flattening either their nuclear facilities (all of them) or the Guardian Council building (during session) are the only two strong options right now. Arming the Iranian people for a general takeover would not achieve anything significant in the near-term and the clock is most definitely running out on their atomic weapons project.
Russian military have uncovered and destroyed rebelsâ transhipment base in a mountain area of the Kurchaloi district of Chechnya. The base belonged to a group of militants under one A. Avdorkhanov. The base comprised a dugout capable to accommodate six people, and an observation post. At the base the military seized a large amount of canned food, sets of combat fatigue, sleeping bags, medicines, dressing material and 150 meters of electric wire, a source at headquarters of the federal forces in the region told Tass on Tuesday. Near the base, the military found a cache with 740 5.45mm cartridges, eight projectiles for a grenade launcher, six projectiles for an anti-tank grenade launcher PG-7, two hand anti-tank grenade launchers RPG-7 and RPG-26, five magazines for a Kalashnikov assault rifle, four hand grenades F-1, three electric detonators, 3.6 kilos of TNT blocks and parts for makeshift bombs.
In a separate operation federal police agents detained three members of the Jamaat bandit group, a source at the press service of the Russian Interior Ministryâs department in the North Caucasus told Tass on Tuesday. The detainees are residents of the Grozny district. In March, they gunned down a local resident. Law enforcers are now looking for evidence of the three menâs involvement in other serious crimes.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/07/2004 1:06:50 AM ||
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SIX Russian soldiers have been killed in rebel attacks in Chechnya in the past 24 hours, an official in the Moscow-backed Chechen administration said today. All the deaths came in rebels firing on Russian military positions, the official said. In all, Russian outposts were fired on in 16 incidents, he said. Two rebels were killed in a clash with bodyguards of Chechen president Akhmad Kadyrov yesterday, the official said, adding four of the bodyguards were wounded. In Grozny, the Chechen capital, a rebel was killed in a shootout with police, said the official. Russian forces used heavy artillery to pound suspected rebel positions throughout mountainous southern Chechnya, and troops rounded up 120 people on suspicion of aiding rebels, the Chechen official said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/07/2004 12:56:51 AM ||
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Hundreds of British soldiers were arriving in Iraq today to relieve peacekeeping forces beset by bloody rebellion. The increasing resistance has prompted calls by Iraqâs foreign minister for thousands more troops to be sent in. The US is already considering boosting its presence.
Almost 5,000 British soldiers are going out to the Gulf to take over from four or five brigades which will return home, the MoD said yesterday. The 4,500-strong 1st Mechanised Brigade, based in Tidworth, Wiltshire, will comprise half the 8,700 British troops stationed in Iraq. About 700 soldiers from the Princess of Walesâs Royal Regiment â part of the brigade â were flying out today and tomorrow. They will take over the running of southern Iraq from the 20 Armoured Brigade. The MoD was adamant the latest British contingent were not additional troops.
Sounds like a rotation to me, but I'm not a military guy.
Yesterday, Iraqâs foreign minister Hoshyar Zebari said Iraq needed 25,000 extra soldiers to cope with worsening violence. Mr Zebari said coalition troops should return to the levels they were at during the war. He said there were now 105,000 troops in Iraq compared to the 130,000 during the war. Speaking after talks with Prime Minister Tony Blair in London he warned the violence would spiral in the three months leading up to the handover of power on June 30.
Sadr played his hand too early, and now he's paying for it.
A spokeswoman for the Ministry of Defence said yesterday: âCoalition forces have been coming under uncoordinated and sporadic attacks around the region.â The deaths came as followers of al-Sadr clashed with British troops.
Mr Blair vowed to hold firm in the face of rising violence. Speaking in Downing Street, Mr Blair said al-Sadrâs militia had no place in the new Iraq. All those opposed to the creation of a modern democratic state were deliberately seeking to destabilise the situation, the PM said. âOur response should not be to run away in fright or hide away or think we have done something wrong,â he said. âOur reaction must be to hold firm.â
Mr Zebari said al-Sadr did not represent the views of the majority of the Shia population, let alone the majority of Iraqis. Both he and Mr Blair stressed that progress was being made despite the continued attacks and said the June 30 deadline for the hand-over of power to an interim Iraqi authority should be met. Mr Blair added: âThey are trying to stop what is right from happening. We do not get put off by this. We redouble our efforts.â
What he said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/07/2004 12:39:04 AM ||
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#1
It does sound like a rotation. However, even if it is a rotation of troops, that is the dumbest time to start an uprising. The new troops have just gotten in, while the old troops have not left yet. So you are facing both sets of troops.
It does make the job of getting the new guys up to speed on things a bit easier.
Posted by: Ben ||
04/07/2004 3:53 Comments ||
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#5
Argh! We DON'T NEED MORE F*CKING TROOPS! We need to take the f*cking kids gloves off and beat some sense into the savages! Give the Marines another week, they are just getting started. At least we are showing signs of not playing games with the animals anymore...blowing up that moskkk to kill those scum was a good start.
#6
AHM> actually it's time to spread the combat experience around. The triangle's a big place, the bigger the constrictor, the easier to squeeze the life out of the pig. Plus, we got to start that build up for the move east into black hat land.
To my dear nation, the best nation brought to mankind, may the peace and blessings of God be upon you...
God honoured us and so we harvested their heads and tore up their bodies in many places:
The United Nations in Baghdad; the coalition forces in Karbala; the Italians in Nasiriya; the US forces on Khalidiya Bridge; the US intelligence in Al-Shahin Hotel and the Republican Palace in Baghdad; the CIA in the Rashid Hotel; and the Polish forces in Al-Hilla.
And last but not least the Israeli Mossad in the Mount Lebanon Hotel. There is more and more; in fact, there is a long list of them.
We challenge the dishonest US media to reveal the real damage and big losses sustained by their forces...
There will be more rounds of fighting, God willing.
If John Abizaid escaped our swords this time, we will be lying in wait for him, for Bremer, for their generals and soldiers and their collaborators...
They [Shias] are the ones who killed the mujahidin, assassinated refugees and are the eyes and ears of the Americans...
They raped women and violated sanctities and are now killing and liquidating Sunni preachers, ulema and men of learning...
Unfortunately, all this is taking place while the Sunnis are asleep due to lies told by their so-called wise men and ulema that drugged the nation and let it down...
Hero mujahidin... God has honoured you and by your hands, the greatest power throughout history has been forced to submission.
Be resolute, kneel down before God, sharpen your swords and burn the land under the feet of the invaders.
Let them taste the bitter defeat and throw them into hell.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/07/2004 12:45:49 AM ||
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#1
If John Abizaid escaped our swords this time, we will be lying in wait for him,
...Pity John's bringing an M16 to the party.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
04/07/2004 0:54 Comments ||
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#2
What's that line about bringing a knife sword to a gunfight?
#3
"God honoured us and so we harvested their heads and tore up their bodies . . ." Makes ya feel all warm and fuzzy about the "Religion of Peace" don't it?
"There will be more rounds of fighting, God willing." You can count on it, Camel Fart, 'cuz we're gonna win.
"They raped women and violated sanctities." There he goes again, attempting to project his own Islamotwerp desires.
". . . all this is taking place while the Sunnis are asleep due to lies told by their so-called wise men" Just couldn't resist a little one-upmanship against the Sunnis, could ya?
" . . . and burn the land under the feet of the invaders. " How they gonna do that with swords?
#4
They [Shias] are the ones who killed the mujahidin, assassinated refugees and are the eyes and ears of the Americans...
I just don't think this civil war thing is working for them. Not like I don't admire the effort - but maybe they need to get out more - leave their caves and get among the people. It must be a bit frustrating for them....you know...like when some poor sap tries to get a chant going at the ball game and everyone just keeps ordering beer and tells them to shut up and get out of the way.
Posted by: B ||
04/07/2004 10:14 Comments ||
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Now there's a headline to warm the heart and soul!
CAIRO, April 6 â A military court in Jordan on Tuesday sentenced to death eight Islamic militants linked to Al Qaeda â six of them in absentia â for the assassination of an American diplomat in the front yard of his Amman home in October 2002. One militant, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the most prominent of those still at large, is believed to be operating in Iraq, and Islamist Web sites on Tuesday featured an audiotape supposedly from him threatening further attacks against American and other foreign forces there, as well as American officials. "We will not let you off, you snakes of evil, until you lift your hands off our mosques and stop shedding the blood of Sunnis," said Mr. Zarqawi, whom the United States accuses of building a network of foreign militants in Iraq, putting a $10 million bounty on his head.
"You just watch yourself. We're wanted men. I have the death sentence on twelve systems."
Besides Mr. Zarqawi, Jordan accused 10 others in the murder of Laurence Foley, 60, a senior administrator for the United States Agency for International Development. Salem Saad bin Suweid, 41, a Libyan convicted of shooting Mr. Foley, and Yasir Friehat, a Jordanian, 29, convicted for driving the getaway car, were the two men present in court who were sentenced to death. Two other Jordanians were sentenced to 15 and 6 years hard labor, respectively, while a fifth was released for lack of evidence.
[The Associated Press reported Wednesday in Amman that the United States Embassy there was the target of a terror plot. Justin Siberell, an embassy spokesman, said that while Jordanian officials were questioning suspects arrested Wednesday with a car filled with explosives, it "emerged that one of the targets was the U.S. Embassy."]
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/07/2004 12:30:25 AM ||
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via USATodat - EFL / Fair Use Al-Sadr statement pledges death before surrender
By Kevin Johnson, USA TODAY
BAGHDAD â Defiant aides to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who is accused of instigating deadly clashes with coalition forces, said Tuesday that al-Sadr would not surrender. They warned of a new violent uprising if authorities try to take him by force. First he will, then he wonât, now he will again... Remind you of anyone?
In a statement released by his office, al-Sadr said he was ready to die resisting any attempt to capture him. "America has shown its evil intentions, and the proud Iraqi people cannot accept it. They must defend their rights by any means they see fit," the statement said. Al-Sadr, who has been fiercely critical of the U.S.-led occupation, is wanted by the coalition on murder charges in last yearâs slaying of a rival Shiite Muslim leader. Of course he should die defending his country. We should facilitate this patriotic act.
Nah, Sadr shouldn't die defending his country, he should die as a result of disgracing his country.
"Either we continue as a country, or it will be destroyed," said Iraqi Governing Council member Mouwafak Al-Rabii. ...more...
Heâs confused. Itâs his meds. Time to relieve his pain.
Posted by: .com ||
04/07/2004 12:22:59 AM ||
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#1
Yassin said this too, didn't he?
Funny how things just seem to work out sometimes, ain't it?
This is the AP's summary of yesterday; I'm posting it as a start for today. Big-time EFL.
Insurgents and rebellious Shiites mounted a string of attacks across Iraq's Shiite south and U.S. Marines launched a major assault on the turbulent Sunni city of Fallujah on Tuesday. Up to a dozen Marines, two more coalition soldiers and at least 66 Iraqis were reported killed. U.S. forces fought insurgents in Sunni triangle cities of Fallujah and Ramadi west of Baghdad, and coalition troops battled Shiite militiamen of radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr in the south. Reports from Ramadi, near Fallujah, said dozens of Iraqis attacked a Marine position near the governor's palace, a senior defense official said from Washington. "A significant number" of Marines were killed, and initial reports indicate it may be up to a dozen, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity. Heavy casualties were inflicted on the insurgents as well. It was not immediately known who the attackers were, nor whether the attack was related to fighting under way in nearby Fallujah. Depending on the number of Ramadi deaths, Tuesday's casualties could have brought the the three-day total as high as about 30 Americans and more than 130 Iraqis killed in the fighting.
Fallujah
On the Fallujah front, Marines drove into the center of the Sunni city in heavy fighting before pulling back before nightfall. The assault had been promised after the brutal killings and mutilations of four American civilians there last week. Hospital officials said eight Iraqis died Tuesday and 20 were wounded, including women and children. Marines waged a fierce battle for hours Tuesday with gunmen holed up in a residential neighborhood of Fallujah. The military used a deadly AC-130 gunship to lay down a barrage of fire against guerrillas, and commanders said Marines were holding an area several blocks deep inside the city. At least two Marines were wounded. U.S. warplanes firing rockets destroyed four houses in Fallujah after nightfall Tuesday, witnesses said. "We are several blocks deep in the city of Fallujah," Marine Maj. Briandon McGolwan said. He said several helicopters were hit by small arms fire, but none were downed. He said Marines had detained 14 people since Monday.
U.S. Marines encircled Fallujah early Monday, and on Tuesday, they penetrated several central neighborhoods for the first time. Mortar and rocket-propelled grenade blasts were heard, and one witness said a Humvee was ablaze. Heavy fighting also occurred between Marines entrenched in the desert and guerrillas firing from houses on Fallujah's northeast outskirts. For hours into the night, the sides traded fire, while teams of Marines moved in and out of the neighborhood, seizing buildings to use as posts and battling gunmen. Helicopters weaved overhead, firing at guerrilla hide-outs.
South-central Iraq
U.S. authorities launched their offensive against al-Sadr and his militia after a series of weekend uprisings in Baghdad and cities and towns to the south that took a heavy toll in both American and Iraqi lives. Fighting in the southern cities of Nasiriyah, Kut, Karbala and Amarah and in a northern Baghdad neighborhood killed 32 Iraqis, coalition military officials said. Tuesday evening, gunfire was heard in another part of Baghdad, Sadr City, where fierce battles occurred Sunday, residents said.
- In Nasiriyah on Tuesday, 15 Iraqis were killed and 35 wounded in clashes between militiamen and Italian troops, coalition spokeswoman Paola Della Casa told an Italian news agency Apcom. Eleven Italians troops were slightly wounded. Della Casa said the Iraqi attackers used civilians as human shields, and a woman and two children were among the dead.
- Fighting overnight in Amarah between al-Sadr's followers and British troops killed 15 Iraqis and wounded eight, said coalition spokesman Wun Hornbyckle.
- In Kut, militiamen attacked an armored personnel carrier carrying Ukrainian soldiers, killing one and wounding five, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry said. Two militiamen were killed in the fight. Ukraine has about 1,650 troops in Iraq.
L. Paul Bremer, the top civilian administrator in Iraq, conceded not all was going smoothly as the coalition approached the June 30 handover, a date he said was inviolable. "We have problems, there's no hiding that. But basically Iraq is on track to realize the kind of Iraq that Iraqis want and Americans want, which is a democratic Iraq," he said on ABC's "Good Morning America."
Fearing a U.S. move to arrest him, al-Sadr on Tuesday left a fortress-like mosque in the city of Kufa, south of Baghdad, where he had been holed up for days, his aides said. Al-Sadr moved to his main office in Najaf, in an alley near the city's holiest shrine, according to a top aide, Sheik Qays al-Khaz'ali. Hundreds of militiamen were protecting the office Tuesday, but there was no independent confirmation al-Sadr was there. The militiamen clashed with coalition troops Sunday in Baghdad and outside Najaf in fierce fighting that killed 61 people, including eight American soldiers. A U.S. soldier was killed in Baghdad Tuesday, a day after two more were killed there. Five Marines were killed Monday - one in Fallujah and the others on the western outskirts of Baghdad. On Sunday, two soldiers were killed in Kirkuk and Mosul.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/07/2004 12:08:01 AM ||
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#1
Good, good so far ... the kill ratio is about right, except I wasn't expecting that dozen to die in one assault on Ramadi ... what the hell happened there?
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
04/07/2004 0:28 Comments ||
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#2
I turned on the Fox news channel to see the "conservative" commentator Bill O'Reilly categorizing this as a "new war" and basically portraying this as a widespread general uprising. He said the administration said that the Shi'ites would welcome us and this was proof they weren't (although I think, like many here, that if the majority of the Iraqis really agreed with the insurgents things would have gone much differently today).
The initial casualty reports were something like 130, but now it's down to a tenth or so as much, but they're interpreting events as if the first number were right.
As I said yesterday, the timing of the attacks doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't look like it's planned to maximum effect. So either they have this really deep incomprehensible plan or they're stupid.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
04/07/2004 0:44 Comments ||
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#3
Or they're shooting their wad way too early.
Fearing a U.S. move to arrest him, al-Sadr on Tuesday left a fortress-like mosque in the city of Kufa,
I think he ought to be worried about an Iraqi moved to whack him. I'm imagining Sistani somewhere musing "This al-Sadr kid... "he's dead to me."
#6
No, the timing is just about right for al-Sadr. There is a huge Muslim holiday coming up on Friday with hundreds of thousands of the faithful thronging the street of Najaf. How could his timing be any better?
#7
Trav - And that might take some doing - a stunt like he pulled with the Poles yesterday (Cue theme music from Twilight Zone) will get his big bad Mobile (in cars) Infantry shot to shit.
1. Why didn't the Poles shoot up those Mobile Cadre` of his? (This is why it is wise that I have no command in Iraq, not even a tiny squad...because I'd light 'em up. But that's just good 'ol liberal genocidal me...lol)
2. It is my understand that al-Sadr has left the Mosque in Najaf for his office, which is only a block of so from where Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani's residence is. It may be difficult to get at al-Sadr w/o hitting Sistani. Hummmmm.
#9
One more pisser if you don't mind. If Sadr was holed up in the al-Kufah mosque, south of Najaf only a day ago, or 2 depending on how you're counting your days, Just how did he make his way up to Najaf? Isn't anyone watching him? This move from the al-Kufah mosque to Najaf proper whould have seemed to have been a very good oppertunity to "hit," him personally.
#10
I still think Ted Kennedy gave the Islamotwerps the clandestine "go ahead." But "George Bush's Vietnam," as TK puts it, isn't going to be anything of the sort. Sorry Teddy--you miscalculated again. It's the Democratic party that's in the back of the car this time . . .
#11
Poles didnt shoot because the islamic bastards had women and children in the vehicles as shields.
That's some religion they have over there, the Shia fundamentalists, hiding and using children as bullet stoppers.
The Iranians are behind this - theu HEzbollah and the IRG. We need to do some deep covert raids against the IRG compounds and blow up their training areas and kill some of their leadership. No safe sanctuary across the border for these hate filled asses.
#12
Strategic summary so far:
1. Sunni Tigris Valley
A. Fallujah - USMC has raided city center, has control over peripheral sections of city, is making progress toward city center - hostiles taking heaving casualties
B. Ramadi - remains under USMC control.
2. Baghdad - Streets of Sadr City, Shouala, Adamiyah largely under insurgent control. Coalition forces retain control of police stations,etc. Rest of city remains firmly under coalition control
3. South -
A. Kufa, Najaf, Kut under Mehdi army control, but with large coalition presence on outskirts of Najaf and Kut
B. Nassiriyah, Amara remain under coalition control, but with large scale fighting
C. Karbala bitterly contested
D. Shiite rural areas relatively quiet.
Iraqi police, pro-SCIRI militias, largely remaining neutral. No word of further defections by ICDC. Report yesterday that ICDC was assisting USMC in Fallujah.
Al Sadr location - presumed to be in central Najaf (didnt i say that staying in Kufa made no sense?)
Sistani location - presumed to be in central Najaf. Effectively under house arrest by Mehdi army??????
IGC largely supporting coalition efforts, but SCIRI warning against arrest of clerics.
US forces being actively assisted by Brits, Poles, Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Italians, Salvadorans. Spaniards?
#13
Fox news on situation in Ramadi The citizens of Ramadi remained in their homes during fighting there, the statement said. Several Iraqis called the coalition tip line to help identify, isolate and combat the insurgents, a U.S. military statement said.
When the fighting subsided, the statement said, Ramadi remained under the supervision of the governor of the province, the chief of police and the Iraqi security forces.
#14
With any luck, our earlier hands-off approach to Fallujah tempted al Dhouri & the other remaining cards to concentrate most of their forces there. Whether planned or not, this localized version of the "flytrap" strategy may have the benefit of concentrating the remaining fight against the insurgancy into the relatively smaller area around the city.
Sadr appears to have taken advantage of the situation to initiate his rebellion, using the old "while they're distracted, I'll grab what I can" approach. Unfortunately for him and his militia, we aren't all that distracted -- and the corpse abuse in Fallujah has actually made it easier to take harsh actions against the militias.
Realistically, getting these battles over with before June is a necessary condition for a successful handover to actually take place.
#15
Whoa - the timeline is the key:
1) The arrest Warrant for Sadr was issued months ago - and Sadr was aware of it - so he's been on his guard for some time
2) We precipitated the action phase of the stalemate when we shut down Sadr's newspaper
3) Then the Spaniards arrested Sadr's lieutenant and they began demonstrating
4) I think the Fallujah guys, looking at Sadr and at the calendar decided to take next target of opportunity - that was the contractors - and we have the spectacle
5) While we prepped for Fallujah, Sadr's guys opened fire on the Spanish compound and elsewhere; Blackwater guys make their stand defending CPA HQ (Najaf, IIRC)
6) We start Fallujah Opn and they hit Ramadi in best-run surprise attack we've seen since April - and it cost them dearly, but us dearly, as well; across South and in Baghdad they attack - rather ineffectively, IMHO - certainly nothing as good as the Ramadi guys who came in organized waves - just like we praticed in Basic Training
Please correct as needed and let's keep a clean copy of this going in the major "action" thread each day. It will help IMMENSELY in keeping everything in perspective.
FRED - wanna keep the official version for us so we're all on the same page each day? Maybe even make it a regular article pre-posted each day. This will go on for the next 85 days or until they're wiped out. The timeline will be invaluable.
#17
AFP now confirms Debka, that USMC is at center of Fallujah.
Also reports Nassiriyah calm. Deal between Italian troops and Iraqi Police. IP will secure city, if they are not successful within specified time, Italians go back in.
#18
CNN now reports a Col. Abrams as saying 1st Armored and 1st Cav both focusing on Sadr City, where about 3000 fighters from Mehdi army are located.
My impression is that they intend to leave Sadr alone in Najaf for a few days, turn him into an obvious lose before going after him. Kill him now, hes a martyr, kill his thugs first, hes just a pathetic has been. Given US troops are best for offensive action, and US troops start in Baghdad, and repositioning troops will lose valuable time, you start by focusing on Baghdad, while coalition troops fight defensively in southern cities. Stronger coalition forces can be more agressive than the weaker ones. Finish up Baghdad (as we speak???) than shift forces to South - join Poles in cleaning up Karbala, then Kut, Kufa, leave Najaf for last. Use the best Iraqi units you've got for final assault in Najaf.
Two South Korean aid workers were set free Tuesday, a day after being detained by a Shiite group in southern Iraq, a South Korean Foreign Ministry official said. The two men were doing relief work in the southern city of Nasiriyah on Monday when shooting erupted between Italian forces and Shiite militiamen, said the official. "During this gunfight, the Shiite men held the South Koreans because they were foreigners," the official said. "But after finding that they were South Koreans, the Shiite men released them the following day."
Guess they heard how the SKors did things in Vietnam.
The two were in Baghdad following their release. Seoul has received no report of injuries of the men. Foreign Minister Ban Ki-moon said Friday that the incident will not affect Seoul's decision to send 3,600 troops to Iraq. South Korea will send a site survey team to the Kurdish region of northern Iraq on Friday to choose between Sulaimaniyah and Irbil as the site for its troops dispatch, Ban said. South Korea's Yonhap news agency and Japan's Kyodo news agency had cited French radio reports as saying the two men were kidnapped in southern Iraq by a Shiite militia group called the al-Mahdi Army. Kyodo said they were taken while the militia battled Italian troops near Nasiriyah. The al-Mahdi Army demanded the pullout of Italian forces in exchange for their release.
Obviously that didn't happen.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/07/2004 12:08:37 AM ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
