Article

2004-04-07 Europe

France Will Not Consider Turkey's Entry Into European Union

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Posted by Steve 2004-04-07 3:18:50 PM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Now that was cold Steve.

Posted by Shipman 2004-04-07 3:29:20 PM|| 2004-04-07 3:29:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Ok, Turkey, wacha gonna do? No EU for you, there is no future with the likes of Iran, Syria, and Co. Who can you REALLY trust when the chips are down? It is a dangerous world out there for all of us.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-04-07 3:39:33 PM|| 2004-04-07 3:39:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 May I add something to the end, AP?

"Don't call us, we'll call you."

Posted by .com 2004-04-07 3:42:45 PM|| 2004-04-07 3:42:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 It would be a mistake for the U.S. to blow off Turkey. It is a hundred years down the long road from Islam to modernity. Iraq is one year down that road. No other Middle East country has its walkin'shoes on as yet.

Posted by Grunter 2004-04-07 3:54:46 PM|| 2004-04-07 3:54:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Calling Murat and Aris.

Posted by Anonymous2U 2004-04-07 4:51:55 PM|| 2004-04-07 4:51:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 I guess the Turks may finally getting what rewards Fance has for those who support French policy. The only reason the Germans haven't done the same thing is that there are tons of Turkish "Gastarbeiteren" (guest workers) there who would riot.

I wonder if the Turks will finally reconsider who their true allies really are?

Posted by OldSpook 2004-04-07 5:02:28 PM|| 2004-04-07 5:02:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 This is the thanks they get for jerking the 4thID around last year.

Posted by Cheddarhead 2004-04-07 5:13:09 PM|| 2004-04-07 5:13:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Grunter - sure, talk is good. Hell, have a hootenanny if you want. Buy a rug and some furniture.

But know this: Trust, once broken, is not easily reestablished, nor should it be.

You wife ever cheat on you? A couple of friends have told me that there is no way you can ever feel the same again.

This is how Turkey must be seen, now. I understand the difference between the Military and Political leadership. I also understand that they acted in concert, the proof being the decisions made, when they betrayed the US for that bogus floater from France & Friends in early 2003. They had plenty of time to decide between the US and The Others. We, and this was a mistake, IMO, made them some very sweet offers - when our history as allies and our half-century of favored largesse should've been more than enough. I objected to the bribes then as they made Turkey's decision look like a prize purchase at an auction.

They made their choice. They chose wrong, as has been demonstrated repeatedly over the last year.

They are in limbo, where they belong. Cooperate? Sure, fine, right up to the point where you share sensitive intel. Trust? Not with current Pol and Mil leadership. Not on your life - or the lives of the US Troops who died because we fought a one-front war. The entire 4thID spent the 'Drive to Baghdad' on ships enroute from Turkey to Kuwait. The SunTri got a pass. We are, right this minute, correcting that huge mistake - at some cost, not to mention all the troops who have already died because the SunTri has been a base of ops for a year. Over 600 US dead now. Many are directly due to that betrayal.

Never forget. Otherwise, knock yourself out.

Posted by .com 2004-04-07 5:15:48 PM|| 2004-04-07 5:15:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Gee, anybody see that one coming? I guess Turkey's screwing us on the northern front didn't lead to peace, love and understanding with the EUnuchs after all, huh?

Schmucks. Never trust a EUrocrat.

Posted by mojo 2004-04-07 5:39:34 PM|| 2004-04-07 5:39:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 .com you are totally correct but we must keep in mind that the turkish no vote was a very slim majority and the fact that we do need turkey in this war. this war will consume syria and iran eventually and we will need turkeys support then.
yes they betrayed us but then they got shit on by the euros. the next time around turkey will know better if for no other reason than there being no other choices.

lets remember that the US and Britian were competitors up till WWII. we almost went to war in the 20's with each other over size of our navies. but we are not very strong allies and i think the turks deserve a chance (they are not going to get one from the euro's).

Posted by Dan 2004-04-07 5:43:47 PM|| 2004-04-07 5:43:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Anonymous2U> You rang?

"Ankara has not met the conditions necessary for entry into the EU, such as ensuring the independence of its judiciary and implementing human rights reforms"

Anyone here actually disagrees with that?

Turkey doesn't fulfil the conditions for the EU to even consider it entering. Simple as that. You people keep on seeing entry into the EU as if it's akin to entry into NATO, where even dictatorships could join without a problem, as long as they were *friendly* dictatorships.

But it's not akin. You are not fully democratic, you ain't entering -- you have unresolved disputes with a prior member state, you ain't entering.

Freedomhouse still labels Turkey as "Partly Free", even though it has improved in recent years. (http://www.freedomhouse.org/research/freeworld/2003/countryratings/turkey.htm) When it becomes fully free, we may talk again.

If the Cyprus issue is first resolved, of course.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-04-07 6:37:57 PM|| 2004-04-07 6:37:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Well Turkey? Was it worth it?

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-04-07 7:23:17 PM|| 2004-04-07 7:23:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Dan - True - the vote was close. And that is irrelevant for it doesn't change the decision they made. So?

They didn't have to participate, all they had to do was grant "right of passage" -- and they denied it. Fuck any "next time around" - when will you figure they have evened the scales for dead American troops in Iraq directly attributable to the circumstances resulting from their decision?

Hey, if they had told us up front, before the 4th ID was sitting in ships off their shore and we hadn't started offloading equipment on their docks - say a month or two before that, we would've at least been able to get 4th ID in the fight - which undoubtedly would have had some forces moving through the SunTri. Keep the timeline in mind and what exists today makes perfect sense - it didn't just spring up out of the ground. Cause, effect, consequence, learn lesson - or rinse, repeat.

Posted by .com 2004-04-07 9:09:31 PM|| 2004-04-07 9:09:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 .com---I sympathize with your sentiments about Turkey and trust. However, strategic situations are fluid. We may not be able to work as close with Turkey as we once did, but we must remain flexible to meet new challenges. For example, I do not think that we should crawl into bed with Libya, but for whatever reason G'Daffy decided to change his tune, it is working out better for us now. If we remained too rigid and dogmatic, and wrote Libya off, we would not be there now. Gotta be flexible, not enough to sell our souls, but be flexible.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-04-07 9:18:50 PM|| 2004-04-07 9:18:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 AP - I didn't say I had a broom handle up my ass, Lol! I can be flexible. I just don't trust them nor do I think that they are trustworthy.

Hey, I'm one of the guys who commented that Daffy had been an asshole for 30 years so going way slow was wise when he flipped his game, heh.

I stand by my statements regards Turkey. Don't turn your back and don't make plans which have any crucial component that depends upon them. K?

Posted by .com 2004-04-07 9:25:06 PM|| 2004-04-07 9:25:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Fuck 'em all....

Posted by Halfass Pete 2004-04-07 9:33:24 PM|| 2004-04-07 9:33:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 I blame this on the fake cooked Turkey Bush held for the photo-op in Iraq. Everything else is our fault, why not this?

Posted by Frank G 2004-04-07 9:33:30 PM|| 2004-04-07 9:33:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 LOL!!! Nice segway! Dunno where it leads, but it's damned funny!

Posted by .com 2004-04-07 9:42:31 PM|| 2004-04-07 9:42:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 D'accord er excuse my French, .com. Agreed. LOL! I guess I meant work with em if you can, but always watch you six, no matter what.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-04-07 10:55:26 PM|| 2004-04-07 10:55:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 On this rarest occasion I agree w/ .com--don't trust Turkey after their behavior--but I don't see the tie in with their membership in the EU--they are definitely not and will never be an EU country culturally--and don't get me started about religion...

Posted by Not Mike Moore 2004-04-07 11:18:01 PM|| 2004-04-07 11:18:01 PM|| Front Page Top

19:40 cingold
13:20 Dcreeper
12:47 Dcreeper
00:22 ex-lib
21:53 FED UP
15:01 Dcreeper
14:04 ex-lib
12:55 Dcreeper
10:08 ex-lib
07:09 Shipman
02:31 Dcreeper
01:53 .com
01:30 Super Hose
01:18 Super Hose
01:11 Mark Espinola
00:50 Zenster
00:45 ex-lib
00:37 Anonymous2U
00:11 ZoGg
23:59 GK
23:50 Phil Fraering
23:44 RWV
23:18 Not Mike Moore
23:15 Super Hose