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2007-12-09 Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Debka spin on the Iran finding. -- interesting but different than other sources
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Posted by 3dc 2007-12-09 02:30|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [6483 views ]  Top

#1 "Here is what happened: The rate of violent acts dropped in Iraq; therefore the American intelligence services discovered that Iran had halted its military nuclear program in 2003. This means that the resumption of violence will make American intelligence services find out that there is a secret military program that is different from the peaceful and famous one.

I don't know, smells like the usual sources are getting ready to work against any rationale to take out Iran's nuclear facility.

Remember the article about the fire at Iran's nuclear site. Must have been something because it made the news yhrough the backdoor and then disappeared into a black hole without any denials being issued.
Posted by Whomong Guelph4611 2007-12-09 03:34||   2007-12-09 03:34|| Front Page Top

#2 If W is such a part of this then why is he ignoring the NIE?
Posted by gorb 2007-12-09 05:10||   2007-12-09 05:10|| Front Page Top

#3 Gorb: How is the President ignoring the NIE? Didn't he publicly thank the authors?

This is the most convincing piece I have ever read at Debka. Let's hope they have no idea what they are talking about. It sounds like yet another American President has decided to throw Israel under the bus.
Posted by Excalibur 2007-12-09 08:26||   2007-12-09 08:26|| Front Page Top

#4 If this is not a complete hoax or a blilliant piece of intentional misinformation to lull the senses of Ahmadinagad against a decapitation strike (and to be honest I dont believe it is), then I think that G W Bush will go down in history as the first american president to initiate a third world war or at least a wholsale war in the middle east by simply sitting and doing nothing.
It is clear to me that if the true picture known to the Israeli intelligence community points to the continuing clandestine Iranian nuclear program, Israel will be forced to strike first and strike hard.
What Bush (or maybe Condi ?) does not understand is that while the US and Europe may be able to recover from a limited Iranian nuclear strike, For Israel such a thing will be an existential threat which cannot to be allowed to happen even in theory.
In my mind, if the change in American policy on Iran is indeed a fact, an Israeli first strike is inevitable even if it means the total disruption of Israel/US relationship.
Remember - Bush or no Bush, we cannot and will not allow a second Holocust to happen through inaction.
Posted by Elder of Zion 2007-12-09 10:43||   2007-12-09 10:43|| Front Page Top

#5 Or Bush has very cleverly thrown the hot potato(e) into the laps of the Europeans, who have so deftly negotiated with the Iranians, the Russians, who have built their reactors and the Chinese, who are just all around irritants, to deal with the problem as they become targets well before the US does and they would all me much more effected by the outbreak of an Arab-Israeli war. Or they can mount a public clamor for Bush to do something for them.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-12-09 11:22||   2007-12-09 11:22|| Front Page Top

#6 And that flotilla of Russian warships includes the world's largest ocean going tug. Why would a carrier need that? Unless it was built in France.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-12-09 11:26||   2007-12-09 11:26|| Front Page Top

#7 Bush or no Bush, we cannot and will not allow a second Holocust to happen through inaction

agreed.
Posted by Whomong Guelph4611 2007-12-09 11:30||   2007-12-09 11:30|| Front Page Top

#8 The Olmert government is paying the price for the military and diplomatic mismanagement of the war against Lebanon’s Hizballah of 2006.

Yes.

The US openly supported Israel in that war only to find that the Israeli government and some military leaders were inept, unfocused, unserious and in a few cases probably corrupt.

Our forces in Iraq absorbed increased Iranian weapons and attacks after that debacle.

To be fair, we had our Fallujah I as well. But bad as it was to suffer our own government's stumbles it was really damaging to us in Iraq to back Israel openly during that war only to have her mess up so incompetantly.
Posted by lotp 2007-12-09 12:36||   2007-12-09 12:36|| Front Page Top

#9 Fact is Iran really is Europe and Israel's problem. The USA really doesn't have the political capital to say our intelligence agencies have spotted WMD. I'm happy to pass the baton and let others take some political risks for awhile.
Posted by rjschwarz 2007-12-09 12:51||   2007-12-09 12:51|| Front Page Top

#10 "4. The naming of Saudi Arabia as a channel for arbitrating American and Iranian differences."

oh yas, the proverbial honest broker....
Posted by Guillibaldo Flerese4731 2007-12-09 12:53||   2007-12-09 12:53|| Front Page Top

#11  r.J. Schwartz wrote:
I'm happy to pass the baton and let others take some political risks for awhile.

Dear Mr. Scwartz,
when the nukes start flying, dont expect Israel (frankly I dont give a shit about Europe) to give any consideration to US interests in the ME.
selling Israel to the dogs may turn out to be a double ended stick.
Posted by Elder of Zion 2007-12-09 13:04||   2007-12-09 13:04|| Front Page Top

#12 Yes.

The US openly supported Israel in that war only to find that the Israeli government and some military leaders were inept, unfocused, unserious and in a few cases probably corrupt.

Lotp,
so when your friend stumbles - you stab him in the back ?
I just remind you that Olmert was never elected by anyone. we "inherited" him as a result of Sharon's coma !
Indeed Olmert is corrupt and not to be trusted, however, has Israel stabbed the US in the back after Nixon was impeached ?
Friends are tested at a time of trouble and not when everything is "just roses"
Posted by Elder of Zion 2007-12-09 13:35||   2007-12-09 13:35|| Front Page Top

#13 I agree, Elder. But the Lebanon debacle seriously eroded Bush's ability to take on Iran right now. That's unfortunate, but it's also a reality.
Posted by lotp 2007-12-09 13:39||   2007-12-09 13:39|| Front Page Top

#14 His a bloody "reminder" for you Elder.
Posted by Besoeker 2007-12-09 13:43||   2007-12-09 13:43|| Front Page Top

#15 dont expect Israel to give any consideration to US interests in the ME.

I don't expect Israel to look out any more for US interests than it did with the Liberty, Michael Pollard, the F-16...

Countries don't have permanent alliances, they have permanent interests. Perhaps Israel should start looking for new allies? France, perhaps. China?

Anyone who thinks the US will throw Israel to the wolves has very little understanding of how the US political system works.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-12-09 14:05||   2007-12-09 14:05|| Front Page Top

#16 resp...Elders of Zion.

"so when your friend stumbles - you stab him in the back ?"

I think Winston Churchill nailed it when he said, "no such thing as enemies and friends, only business". Israel is turning into a liability for America so America is inturn dumping it.

Posted by Leah Ashley 2007-12-09 15:12||   2007-12-09 15:12|| Front Page Top

#17 Israel is important to us and will continue to be for, at the very least, the remainder of the WoT. So needless to say, that means a really long time.

However, Israel carries with it a lot of baggage via the territories.

It is very important to the U.S. and to Israel that they stop perpetuating the unsuccess of occupation. The only reason occupation has been tenable for as long as it has is due to the imcompetent and barbaric natue of the Palestinians. If Arafish had used Gandhi as a role model, he would have brought his people a state decades ago, but as the saying goes, "The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."

A solution to the Palestinian issue will likely need to forced upon them since they're uncapable of doing anything for themselves. Whether it be removal of the Palestinians or a state, it needs to happen.

My own opinion is that Israel can't address the Palestinians properly until there is a Palestinian state to deal with. Israel ahs gone to war kicked the asses of all the states around them. Those states have learned through conditioning not attack Israel. The Palestinians can't learn that until they have a state to lose.
Posted by Mike N. 2007-12-09 15:30||   2007-12-09 15:30|| Front Page Top

#18 our British Columbia anti Joooo friend Leah Ashley is showing her disturbing bias. America's interests, generally, are the same as Israel's. Leah, apparently, wants to wear a burka and be smacked when she doesn't STFU. If she's OK with the second part, then I am too
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-12-09 16:39||   2007-12-09 16:39|| Front Page Top

#19 Leah is indeed an idiot of the most profound sort.
Posted by lotp 2007-12-09 16:44||   2007-12-09 16:44|| Front Page Top

#20 wrong..... Americas interests were generally the same as Israels during the cold war. This time however Israel has only turned America into an outcast through it's unconditional support. What good has America recieved since Jonathan Pollard, the USS Liberty, and lastly Israels misadventures in Lebanon. You claim the, "war on terror" but with America continuing its path of unconditional support for you it alienates and pushes out the moderates and only creates and strengthens the radicals, which in turn is not in Americas interests.
America for a while has not worked in its interests for some time probably due to the powerful Jewish Lobbys such as AIPAC, the ADL and the strong influence jews have in the media supporting the neocons in the past. Hopefully with this report America can slowly start going back to be the honest broker it once was and force peace in the Middle East starting with a Palastinian state.

P.S #18 FRANK G. If you were not a Jew you would see the wrongs that the Jews were comitting and in turn you would be an anti Jooo too ...oooooooooh.
Posted by Leah Ashley 2007-12-09 18:01||   2007-12-09 18:01|| Front Page Top

#21 I hate nazis (neo- inclusive).
Posted by twobyfour 2007-12-09 18:07|| http://www.twobyfour.nfo/]">[http://www.twobyfour.nfo/]  2007-12-09 18:07|| Front Page Top

#22 I ß nazis, too.
Posted by twobyfour 2007-12-09 18:13|| http://www.twobyfour.info/]">[http://www.twobyfour.info/]  2007-12-09 18:13|| Front Page Top

#23 Dear Leah Ashley (for google's sake), nice try, b*tch. I'm a Roman Catholic, and I make NO apology for my support of Israel, the Jooooos, or our mideast policy that helps Israel. Inasmuch as you're comfortably ensconced in British Columbia, I have no opportunity to physically bitch-slap you, so I'll have to accept this forum. I've seen your previous unintelligent comments. They have done nothing other than convince the other side that twits like you should be publicisized, ridiculed, and shamed. Care to give us a mailing address? Idiot
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-12-09 18:14||   2007-12-09 18:14|| Front Page Top

#24 "P.S #18 FRANK G. If you were not a Jew you would see the wrongs that the Jews were comitting and in turn you would be an anti Jooo too ...oooooooooh."

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!! Leah, if stupidity were music you'd be a 50-piece brass band.

We need an "Asshole Of The Week" award. Seriously...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2007-12-09 18:38||   2007-12-09 18:38|| Front Page Top

#25 Leah, you ignorant dunce. Your personal bias has once again lead you to believe what is not true. the percentage of Jews on this board is actually fairly low.

Myself, I'll admit that I, moreso than most on this site, am very critical of Israeli policy. There's a difference between being critical and being blind, my young bigot. I know better than to believe in some conspiracy nonsense that tells me some mystical "Jooish Lobby" controls American foreign policy.

If you're genuinely intereseted in a clue, this is a great place to pick one up.
Posted by Mike N. 2007-12-09 18:43||   2007-12-09 18:43|| Front Page Top

#26 Actually, Miss Ashley, the Jews do own the world, including that part your computer is attached to. And the part that supplies your electricity and hot water, and the grocery stores. We own your bank, the job you hope to get someday... oh, and we own your parents, too.

Do try a bit harder to keep us from noticing you. It's so unpleasant when we have to actually take care of annoyances.
Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife  2007-12-09 19:04||   2007-12-09 19:04|| Front Page Top

#27 Ashley is just doing her thang...

Shes likely to show up on Christmas Eve supper this year Drunk off her ass and ruin the whole show because someone didn't give her the drumstick this Thanksgiving.
******************************************

These are times that test men and test alliances.

a thesis:

Israel has the perfect opportunity to take out Iran's nuke facilities, tomorrow.

Look what happened to Syria and the aftermath.

Aftermath you say, what aftermath?

The USA and Israel did that together.
Was this lost on Iran?
Ha! don't think so.
Does Israel have the ability to neutralize Iran's air defences? YES.

Israel has the attack aircraft,
the air refueling capability,
the proper targets in Iran,
the proper munitions,
all Israel needs is the "Need To" and the "WILL" to set back Iran's Nuke operations for 8-10 years or more.

Hezbollah will attempt to fire thousands of rockets at Israel etc. but let's all hope that Olmert and co. have been busy coming up with plans and solutions to mitigate that problem and a few others since 2006.
Posted by RD">RD  2007-12-09 19:05||   2007-12-09 19:05|| Front Page Top

#28 Last i checked the Jews don't own the world but according to Gen. Wesley Clark they do own New York and Jewish money has been flowing, trying to get America to attack Iran. This goes with alot of peoples assesments...generals, politicians, think tanks, etc... that attacking Iran would be catastrophic to American interests in the region and abroad. The whole Middle East would be destablized, the Hormuz got get shut down creating an economic recession, Hizbolla and Hamas would drag Israel into another war, Syria could be dragged in, Iraqs shites would attack American targets in Iraq, Iran will respond with it's ballistic missles against American and Israeli interests abroad.

http://www.forward.com/articles/top-dem-wesley-clark-says-ny-money-people-pu/

You think you will be fighing terrorism but you will only strengthen it bye creating 10-20-100 terrorists for everybuilding destroyed and terrorist killed.
Posted by Leah Ashley 2007-12-09 19:51||   2007-12-09 19:51|| Front Page Top

#29 Ashley is probably my sister in law who grew up poor in Canada and goes off every so often about how the Jews control the banks etc. I never had any white trash on my side of the family, so it was at first shocking to me but then it became almost funny to watch her turn from a normal looking human being into a little chuckie doll whose head would spin as she covered the room with projectile vomits of vile green puke.
Posted by Whomong Guelph4611 2007-12-09 19:52||   2007-12-09 19:52|| Front Page Top

#30 The only reason anybody here mentions Clarks name is when it's an insult.

One question, would you care to provide any proof that "Jewish money is flowing to try to get America to attack Iran."?
Posted by Mike N.  2007-12-09 20:00||   2007-12-09 20:00|| Front Page Top

#31 JPOST > IRAN CONFLICT wid Israel will be UNAVOIDABLE unless Iran cooperates and reveals its nucprogs. Suggests ISRAEL NOT AFRAID TO PREEMPT. *TOPIX > ISRAEL CONTINUES TO BELIEVE IRAN WILL HAVE NUCLEAR BOMB BY 2010, despite new US NIE.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-12-09 20:05||   2007-12-09 20:05|| Front Page Top

#32 Poor, stupid General Wesley Clark, ret. has said a great many things since his retirement party, to which not a single one of his bosses came, I heard -- no doubt a US Armed Forces record. He almost started a war with Russia over Kosovo in a fit of pique, my dear Miss Ashley. Is that really the kind of person you want to pin your world view to?

Goodness, Whomong Guelph4611 -- I hope it doesn't get into the gravy!
Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife  2007-12-09 20:36||   2007-12-09 20:36|| Front Page Top

#33 Besides, I thought the Italian Mafia owned New York. We do mean the city, not the state, right? Because I know for a fact the Poles and the Italians split Buffalo, the internationalist professors get Amherst, the doctors get Williamsville and, I believe, Orchard Park, and the Muslims have Lackawanna's First Ward. That's where the Lackawanna Six came from.
Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife  2007-12-09 20:41||   2007-12-09 20:41|| Front Page Top

#34 FRANK G. If you were not a Jew you would see the wrongs that the Jews were comitting

Ok, that does it, I don't believe she's for real.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2007-12-09 21:06||   2007-12-09 21:06|| Front Page Top

#35 see that g(r)om? The hate I endure because I'm not a Joooo? LOL. Leah's a fool and a flaming bag of sh*t. :-)
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-12-09 21:36||   2007-12-09 21:36|| Front Page Top

#36 g(r)omgoru, she's for real, just one of these stupid ignorant bigotted anti-semitic byatches. It is likely that someone poured that shit into her braincase and connected it into an infinite loop. Probably beyond repair.
Posted by twobyfour 2007-12-09 21:45|| http://www.twobyfour.info/]">[http://www.twobyfour.info/]  2007-12-09 21:45|| Front Page Top

23:46 JosephMendiola
23:39 JosephMendiola
23:38 Whomong Guelph4611
23:16 trailing wife
23:02 trailing wife
22:54 Pappy
22:53 DMFD
22:52 trailing wife
22:51 DMFD
22:51 Grampaw Thrish3238
22:49 Mike N.
22:42 ryuge
22:41 Sonny Graiper3958
22:33 Bright Pebbles
22:27 Bright Pebbles
21:56 Zhang Fei
21:45 twobyfour
21:36 Frank G
21:34 moody blues
21:33 g(r)omgoru
21:31 Whomong Guelph4611
21:29 Zhang Fei
21:27 lotp
21:27 g(r)omgoru
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