PRESIDENT KARZAI: Thank you very much, Mr. President. I'm very grateful, Mr. President, to you and the American people for all that you have done for Afghanistan for the last four-and-a-half years, from roads to education, to democracy, to parliament, to good governance effort, to health, and to all other good things that are happening in Afghanistan.
Mr. President, I was, the day before yesterday, in the Walter Reed Hospital. There I met wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan. And there also I met a woman soldier with six boys that she had left behind in America in order to build us a road in a mountainous part of the country in Afghanistan. Yeah, I read about that in the New York Times. Or not. We are very grateful.Mr. President, we, the Afghan people, are grateful to you and the American people for all that you have done.
PRESIDENT BUSH: We'll start with Jennifer Loven.
Afghanistan's president is urging Pakistan to close extremist schools and seeking support from US President George W Bush in a campaign against "places that teach terror".
"There will not be an end to terrorism unless we remove the sources of hatred in madrassas and the training grounds," Afghan President Hamid Karzai said on Monday. The Afghan leader distinguished between madrassas, or schools, that teach extremism to young people and those that provide education in Islam. "We need preachers in our religion," he said. Karzai said, "There will not be an end to terrorism unless we remove the sources of hatred in madrassas and the training grounds".
Karzai said he had no objection to madrassas that teach Islam to young people. But he said it was up to President Musharraf to deal with the problem of teaching hatred to young children. "Those places have to be closed down," he said. While it is Pakistan's job, the United States could provide some financial help to get it done, Karzai said.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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"Karzai said he had no objection to madrassas that teach Islam to young people. But he said it was up to President Musharraf to deal with the problem of teaching hatred to young children."
#2
How can we expect anything but nuanced? It is not Karzai's country to govern. Karzai has to somehow get along with ego-driven Perv(ert).
Yet it is out of Pakland that the radicals flourish.
Karzai should be publicly joined by every security minded country in speaking out about radicalism from Pakland and Perv(ert).
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/27/2006 3:21 Comments ||
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#3
Radicalism? Hmmmm. I think you are far too generous. It's not "radical", it's regular old everyday run-of-the-mill Islam. Same as has been practiced for approx 1400 years - spread at the point of a sword, or whatever is available.
Recall they would have executed the apostate convert to Christianity not long ago - and would have done it had it not been heavily publicized, forcing Karzai to get creative. They had to declare him "insane" - standing reality on its head - to wiggle out of practicing Islam.
The ISI is in export mode because they enjoyed controlling Afghanistan. That Karzai doesn't appreciate the interference is understandable. To presume his displeasure is because he and his fellows do not practice Islam as written is, IMHO, a non-sequitur. Just my opinion.
It is not the people of the madrassas who are radical, it is Karzai who is moderate bordering on heresy and apostasy. It is the people in the madrassas who are faithful to the teachings of the Koran and people like Karzai managed to get through indoctrination towards murder without being affected by it.
Question by Jennifer Loven (AP) And to President Karzai, if I might, what do you think of President Musharraf's comments that you need to get to know your own country better when you're talking about where terror threats and the Taliban threat is coming
PRESIDENT KARZAI: Ma'am, before I go to remarks by my brother, President Musharraf, terrorism was hurting us way before Iraq or September 11th. The President mentioned some examples of it. These extremist forces were killing people in Afghanistan and around for years, closing schools, burning mosques, killing children, uprooting vineyards, with vine trees, grapes hanging on them, forcing populations to poverty and misery.
They came to America on September 11th, but they were attacking you before September 11th in other parts of the world. We are a witness in Afghanistan to what they are and how they can hurt. You are a witness in New York. Do you forget people jumping off the 80th floor or 70th floor when the planes hit them? Can you imagine what it will be for a man or a woman to jump off that high? Who did that? And where are they now? And how do we fight them, how do we get rid of them, other than going after them? Should we wait for them to come and kill us again? That's why we need more action around the world, in Afghanistan and elsewhere, to get them defeated -- extremism, their allies, terrorists and the like.
On the remarks of my brother, President Musharraf, Afghanistan is a country that is emerging out of so many years of war and destruction, and occupation by terrorism and misery that they've brought to us. We lost almost two generations to the lack of education. And those who were educated before that are now older. We know our problems. We have difficulties. But Afghanistan also knows where the problem is -- in extremism, in madrassas preaching hatred, preachers in the name of madrassas preaching hatred. That's what we should do together to stop.
The United States, as our ally, is helping both countries. And I think it is very important that we have more dedication and more intense work with sincerity, all of us, to get rid of the problems that we have around the world.
#8
This Karzai is one righteous dude. He definitely has a clear view of the problem, not only in his country, but also in ours. He is doing what he can to move the ball forward, and that's more than most Americans. Keep it up.
#9
"It is not the people of the madrassas who are radical, it is Karzai who is moderate bordering on heresy and apostasy. It is the people in the madrassas who are faithful to the teachings of the Koran "
Because there is one interpretation of the Koran that is correct? Do you make your judgement of which is correct based on your knowledge of the Hadiths? Of the 4 major schools of Sunni Fikh?
Cmon, there aint no "authentic as it was written" Theres only how its practiced, and both Kharzai and the Talibanies have plenty of precedent to go by in terms of practice.
The United Nations and Sudan are discussing the deployment of UN military advisers to reinforce the African Union peacekeeping mission in Darfur, hoping to avert a standoff that could deepen the crisis in the war-torn region, officials from both sides said Tuesday. The proposal appeared to be gaining momentum amid fears violence could escalate. The United Nations has demanded Sudan accept a UN peacekeeping force in the region, but Khartoum has fiercely deposed it, insisting it will only accept strengthening the current African Union mission.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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Fresh bullshit from the UN, more half-measures (if that) that result in nothing.
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/27/2006 3:22 Comments ||
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KISMAYO, Somalia - Somali Islamists on Tuesday put down a small womens protest in this key southern port and imposed a curfew after violent demonstrations by residents against their new Muslim leaders.
No pics of the Islamicists beating and beheading the wimmins; that will come as soon as the soccer stadium is cleared.
A day after taking Kismayo peacefully but then opening fire on demonstrators, Islamist forces quelled a brief protest by several dozen women and children and slapped a 9:00 pm to 5:00 am curfew, witnesses said. They moved to break up about 70 women and children who had gathered to chant anti-Islamist slogans and an unknown number of people by some accounts two, by others as many as 20 -- were detained after the demonstration, they said.
The Islamic courts are occupiers, we dont want the Islamic courts here, we will not accept the rule of the Islamic courts, they yelled before being dispersed.
Kismayo police commander Abdullahi Farhan told AFP only about 20 people were chanting and that only five were now in custody, including two women arrested after Mondays protest.
At least two people died in Mondays violence, according to residents, but the Islamists have vehemently denied anyone was killed or wounded, and despite Tuesdays brief incident and overnight gunfire, the port appeared edgy but calm.
Kismayo residents said they were told the curfew had been imposed to preserve the peace. We dont know how long the curfew will stay in place, said Kismayo businessman Ahmed Sheilk Abdulle. If the plan is to avoid violence, we can wait, but everything must have its limits.
Heh, good luck in dealing with your new occupiers. Sucks to live under Sharia, eh?
Residents said there were fears the government-allied local Juba Valley Alliance (JVA) militia, which had held Kismayo until Sunday but then fled and Islamist advance, might attempt a counter-strike.
The port was the latest municipality in southern Somalia to fall into Islamist hands since they seized Mogadishu from warlords in June after months of fierce battles. Islamist officials say they took Kismayo, about 500 kilometers (310 miles) south of the capital and 150 kilometers (90 miles) east of the Kenyan border, to prevent proposed peacekeepers from landing.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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While they crossed the deserts, we could have done a little short division and subtraction on them. Ya know to bring up their math scores. Too bad to miss such an opportunity.
(Xinhua) -- The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) rejected further talks on its nuclear program because of U.S. breakdown, Choe Su Hon, Deputy Foreign Minister of the DPRK, said Tuesday. "It is quite preposterous that the DPRK, under the groundless U.S. sanctions, takes part in the talks of discussing its own nuclear abandonment," Choe said in his speech to the general debate of the 61st session of the UN General Assembly. "This is the matter of principle intolerable of even the slightest concession," he stressed.
Choe reiterated that the DPRK maintains its consistent position to resolve the issue of denuclearizing the Korean peninsula peacefully through dialogue and negotiations, adding it is willing to hold the talks more than any other countries. "However, the United States, soon after the announcement of the Joint Statement, has spent no time in imposing financial sanctions up on the DPRK," he severely blamed the United States.
What the United States had done eventually scrapped the already-agreed itinerary for the following rounds of the talks and created the present impasse, the deputy foreign minister argued. He pointed out that "it is crystal that the United States is not in favor of the Six-Pary Talks and the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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The two KOREAS are both complaining about Chinese textbooks ascribing the areas as part of China, and the Korean peoples as part of China's ethnic mix. Its getting harder and harder for North Korea to justify its claim as an independent, sovereign nation NOT under Chicom control.
#3
It is doubtful that they are going to engage until after they donotate the bomb, as they jack up the price for engagement. They also know Bush's days are numbered and they hope to find a donk in their stocking.
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/27/2006 3:25 Comments ||
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NY Times, login required
BERLIN, Sept. 26 A leading German opera house has canceled performances of a Mozart opera because of security fears stirred by a scene that depicts the severed head of the Prophet Muhammad, prompting a storm of protest here about what many see as the surrender of artistic freedom.
In the scene that offended Muslims and led to security fears, a king places the severed heads of religious leaders on chairs.
The Deutsche Oper Berlin said Tuesday that it had pulled Idomeneo from its fall schedule after the police warned of an incalculable risk to the performers and the audience.
The companys director, Kirsten Harms, said she regretted the decision but felt she had no choice. She said she was told in August that the police had received an anonymous threat, but she acted only after extensive deliberations.
LOS ANGELES (AP) - An Army medic who fled rather than serve a second tour in Iraq because he believes war is immoral turned himself in Tuesday to face a possible court-martial.
Army Spec. Agustin Aguayo, 34, turned himself in around 6 p.m. at Fort Irwin, an Army base in the Mojave Desert northeast of Los Angeles, said Army spokesman Ken Drylie. "It is the right thing to do," said Aguayo at a news conference in Los Angeles hours before going to the base. "I'm not a deserter or a coward."
Aguayo said he expected to face a court martial and some jail time.
Count on it.
"It's something I can live with," he said. "Something I can't live with is being a participant of war anymore."
Aguayo, a U.S. citizen who was born in Guadalajara, Mexico, said he was not anti-war when he enlisted in 2002. But his military experiences changed his mind. He applied for conscientious objector status in February 2004 before he was sent overseas. He served a year as a combat medic in Tikrit, Iraq, in 2004 after the military turned down his request. He then jumped out of a window of his base housing in Germany on Sept. 2 rather than be forced to ship out for a second tour with the 1st Battalion, 18th Infantry Regiment.
Explain to me how being a medic interferes with keeping his conscience 'clean'. You look after your unit, your guys, and you help civilians in the area. I'm not mil/ex-mil, but I sure would think that a medic has about the least claim to CO status, right next to the chaplain's assistant.
After being taken into custody, Aguayo will be sent to either Fort Sill in Oklahoma, or Schweinfurt, Germany, said John Wagstaffe, an Army spokesman at Fort Irwin. Army officials would then decide whether to court martial him, said Wagstaffe.
Aguayo likely will be charged with being AWOL and with a separate charge of missing movement because he didn't ship out to Iraq with his unit, said James Klimaski, one of Aguayo's Washington attorneys. Other soldiers who went AWOL and claimed they were conscientious objectors have been sentenced between a couple of months to two years in confinement and given bad conduct discharges, Klimaski said.
Last year, Aguayo sued in federal court in Washington to overturn the military's rejection of his conscientious objector bid. He lost the court case but has appealed the decision. Arguments are scheduled for November. If Aguayo wins his lawsuit on appeal, that would overturn any court-martial decision, Klimaski said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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In past wars, many genuine CO's chose to serve as medics, so as not to pick up a gun, and served honorably.
#2
Most oldstyle CO's didn't surrender with press coverage.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/27/2006 0:58 Comments ||
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Look for the looney left to rally behind this volunteer traitor. He becomes the darling of MSM.
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/27/2006 3:29 Comments ||
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CA, he already is. The first contact listed on aguayodefense.org is Elsa Rassbach, the same German anti-war nutjob who organized a Cindy Sheehan visit and anti-war protest outside the gate at Ramstein a few months ago (Aguayo was assigned to Schweinfurt).
A roughly 50/50 breakdown indicates to me that the military does a pretty good job assessing C.O. applications in good faith. Too good, if you ask me, considering there is no draft.
#5
Of what value to the military are these guys if they've applied for CO and been denied?
It seems to me the problem is economic. It costs a lot to train a troop, whatever the service. If they want to opt out, there should be a liquidated damages clause in their contract that allows them to get a less than honorable discharge and re-imburse the government for their training cost if they decide their conscience can't take it. That would end up being a large number. Very large. But if they want to pay uncle back in 5 years, they can. If they don't pay off on time, wait till the day before the statute of limitations and sue to collect the money, forcing bankruptcy if necessary. Perhaps fraud charges can be added if they never make payments.
#6
I'm not mil/ex-mil, but I sure would think that a medic has about the least claim to CO status, right next to the chaplain's assistant.
That's the traditional position for COs who are not traitors.
Of what value to the military are these guys if they've applied for CO and been denied?
Agreed. Anyone who doesn't get approved as a CO should be discharged. Isn't there a status that simply says "didn't complete service"?
Of course, with a volunteer military, it's hard to give a rat's ass about people who suddenly wake up and realize what they're expected to do.
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
09/27/2006 8:18 Comments ||
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Conscientious objector? Heres a real CO. He was drafted. He didnt volunteer. Yet he upheld the oath he took upon entering the Army, unlike this person.
Punishment? For whom? Just creates more problems for other personnel. To take the words of Shakespeares Henry V - Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
Give the lad a General Officer Article XV and a bad conduct discharge. If the lad hesitates, then go ahead and courts martial him. Hell enjoy the federal felony conviction. If he is naturalized, that then goes puff too. And James Klimaski is full of it if he thinks that the CO appeal will have any effect upon AWOL charges. Separate offense, along with missing movement, disobedience of orders, etc. All compounding to an administrative discharge for bad conduct. Bye, bye VA entitlements and programs.
No doubt this guy hopes to be a poster boy for the anti-war movement. Note that he joined after 9/11 (even after war in Afghanistan started...). He knew what he was getting into.
#10
As RC points out, the guy's a traitor and ought to get death for desertion in wartime. But he's gaming it very carefully, having turned himself in just before the 30-day mark (this being the point where AWOL becomes desertion).
Further, his name wasn't on the manifest when his unit deployed, so he probably won't be charged with missing movement either. I'd guess the command was well aware of his intentions and said, fuck it, who needs him. Unfortunately, that documentary proof was a key element of the offense, so a conviction on that will be one real hard to get.
No Big Chicken Dinners for Art. 15s or administrative separations either -- BCDs and DDs are possible only upon conviction by a general court-martial. I'm sure he's gunning for an admin sep, because the worst admin discharge is an OTH (under other than honorable conditions), which does not entail the loss of too many government benefits. Or count as a federal conviction.
From a legal point of view, this guy is being the biggest pain in the ass he can possibly be. He's not just a coward: those sorts piss hot, ask for an out in lieu of court-martial, and take the OTH like a man. Aguayo is an activist: he wants the publicity.
#11
The best interest of the Army is what we should be discussing and nothing more. This guy does not matter to any of us in DOD and I think it would be in our best interest to give the jerk a general discharge and wash our hands of him. Otherwise he will be the latest anti war poster boy, a hero for the upcomming elections and the left. This is an all volunteer Army, cut bait on him and lets not waste any more assets and taxpayers dollars on this guy.
Posted by: 49 Pan ||
09/27/2006 10:52 Comments ||
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#12
Ok, I never served, but I still don't see how someone in a volunteer military can claim conscientious objector status and get it approved. How would someone do that? (Would it generally be something like conversion to a religion that is pacifist, like the Quakers or Jains, or are there other ways to do it?)
#13
Blondie,
The US military has always recognized - though usually in the breach - the right of even a volunteer to suddenly have a 'road-to-Damascus' moment and no longer wish to be part of a military force. The question that has always arisen is whether or not such moments are genuine as opposed to the 'oh-sh*t-I-could-get-shot-at' sort. But in any case, there is and has - as nearly as I can tell - always been a procedure to investigate and sort out such instances. It is FAR from pleasant, and in the case of the USAF I know it was usually a guilty until proven innocent mindset. I did 20 years in the AVM and knew several people who decided they could no longer be military, though only one was - IMHO - a genuine conversion.(That individual is now a full-time missionary, and has served in some nations that are best described as unpleasant to Americans.) The rest all got fair hearings at Government expense. All but one were sent home with General Discharges and the last got an Article 15 for falsifying Government documents - to wit, saying he wasn't a CO on his enlistment paperwork.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
09/27/2006 12:27 Comments ||
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#14
49 Pan, I would tend to agree with you, but there'' a principle here that needs to be upheld loud and clear, or it will degrade the entire concept of Military discipline and structure. You don't have to volunteer. You don't have to swear an oath. But if you do, you WILL be held accountable for it. The moonbats be damned. Imprison the man.
#15
He signed a contract and violated it. A dishonarable discharge and jail time is justified. If he is willing to suffer the consequences then it's his choice. So what if the Sheehan handlers want to make him a poster boy. That whole Sheehan thing did little more than to expose the aging lefties as a bunch of loons and losers from an era gone by. He's going to spend his life rationalizing his decision. A dishonorable discharge is no small matter - it follows you for life.
#16
OK lets back up a minute. He served a tour in combat. That is a life changing event in its own right. He did not run in combat, he served. It was only after he returned to the states he had his, Road to Damascas moment, (thanks Mike)when he heard he would have to go again. It does not seem to me to be CO thats driving him. My bet is it's fear. He's seen it, been there, done that, and he's scared to death to go back. Looking at the numbers of CO's it seems trivial and more of a consumer of jag manhours that they are worth to our system. Maybe after all these years I'm getting soft, or wiser, but from my perspective he's a waste of time for the Army, soldiers could care less about him and we don't need him, throw his ass out on a general and get back to spending the energy on troops that want to be here.
Posted by: 49 Pan ||
09/27/2006 16:27 Comments ||
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#17
49 Pan,
I'm inclined to agree with you to a certain extent, insofar as the guy probably is just plain scared - and God knows I don't blame him. The kid was a medic, and even the most well-adjusted warrior would probably have nightmares given what he may have seen. But there are even programs in place for that, assuming he was willing to avail himself of them.
The Army, however, genuinely needs to land on these idiots with both feet. Political problems with court-martialing alleged CO's? Fine. Court-martial them for falsifying government documents and failure to obey an order unless they formally apply to be CO's. If they are truly COs, they'll go through the system and take their chances. At that point, if they still refuse, Leavenworth their as*es. A genuine CO will take retraining into a stateside job.
The UCMJ has many and manifold ways to take down someone who is trying to game the system, which is exactly what this lad is trying to do.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
09/27/2006 16:49 Comments ||
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#18
Interesting date. September 2nd (this year, I presume) - if you're AWOL for more than 30 days, the charge becomes "desertion in a time of war."
#19
I'm with you on that Mike. Good order and disapline will require The courts martial and probably some jail time. Our conversation will be the exact same one the panel at the courts martial will have. Should make good conversation when its over.
Posted by: 49 Pan ||
09/27/2006 17:18 Comments ||
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#20
Prison will make them martyrs to the media and the people who put them up to it. No jail time. Make the penalty financial.
#21
I have to wonder what this guys relationship was with his unit? I mean if I was deploying and one of my guys went AWOL I would be VERY upset. That angered would be tendered if I didnt like the guy. He sounds like someone that wasnt and wont be missed by his unit. Finally, he could have accomplished the same thing by simple not going, facing his discipline, and he would have also found a willing soapbox in the media. I guess he wanted a few months to rant about the war, smoke pot, and bad mouth his country. DROP AND GIVE ME 20 SWEAT PEA!
#22
Mike and 49, soldiers do not create a legal clusterfuck of this magnitude just because they're scared. After his CO claim was denied, you'll notice that he filed suit in federal court -- in D.C., while stationed in Germany -- lost, and appealed. This would have required an investment of many thousands of dollars in legal fees (which he paid out of an E4's salary?) and many, many hours of writing, e-mailing, and on the phone. Add to this the legal shitstorm he'll have to deal with on the military side now.
Guys who are scared at least usually have the courage to admit it, and take their lumps. Further, guys who are genuinely COs are perfectly content as medics. Neither is the case here. Aguayo is a publicity hound who -- with the help of his attorneys, no doubt -- has calculated his every move to drag this out and create as many difficulties for the government as possible.
#24
There ya go exjag, buy ya a beer at the next RB meeting, gotta make one before I PCS to Mesa. Dump this guy, general discharge and move on to spending time and money on helping the warfighter, F*&k him.
Posted by: 49 Pan ||
09/27/2006 18:19 Comments ||
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#25
I agree with 49 Pan. Haul him to Ft. Sill, quick admin process, give him an OTH, and dump him. If you do it right, it can be done in a day (personal experience serving on a board). Okay it's Army - maybe three days... :p
WASHINGTON (AP) - Despite intense partisan divisions over the course of the Iraq war, the House on Tuesday easily approved $70 billion more for military operations there and in Afghanistan. Lawmakers also adopted a record $448 billion budget for the Pentagon. With Iraq alone costing about $8 billion a month, another infusion of money will be needed next spring.
The House passed the Pentagon appropriations bill by a 394-22 vote Tuesday night, and the Senate is due to cat before adjourning this weekend for the fall campaign.
Gee, not too many Dhimmicrats voted against it. Wonder if the election focused their minds?
The House-Senate compromise bill provides $378 billion for core Pentagon programs, about a 5 percent increase, though not quite as much as President Bush asked for. The $70 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan is a down payment on war costs the White House has estimated will hit $110 billion for the budget year beginning Oct. 1.
With final passage of the bill, Congress will have approved $507 billion for Iraq, Afghanistan and heightened security at overseas military bases since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, according to the Congressional Research Service.
The core bill contains $86 billion for personnel costs, enough to support 482,000 Army soldiers and 175,000 Marines. That would provide for a 2.2 percent pay increase for the military, as Bush requested in his February budget. The bill provides $120 billion for operations and maintenance costs, just less than the Pentagon request. And $81 billion goes for procurement of new weapons, with $76 billion dedicated to research and development costs.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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Gee, not too many Dhimmicrats voted against it. Wonder if the election focused their minds?
Well, for now at least. But then again, focused is such a loose term when you're dealing with one immature brain cell that can only think "Must regain power at any cost".
WASHINGTON (AP) - A plan to tighten U.S. borders by requiring passports or tamper-resistant identification cards from everyone entering the country by land from Mexico and Canada has been delayed. House and Senate lawmakers agreed to push back the program by 17 months, saying they want to make sure new ID cards being developed by the Bush administration will better secure borders against terrorists without slowing legitimate travelers from Canada and Mexico. The new ID's will be required for Americans and all others entering the U.S.
The delay would only apply to travelers entering the U.S. over land borders from Canada and Mexico. It would not affect travel rules for people coming into the country by airplane or boat, who will have to show their passports to Customs officials as of Jan. 8, 2007, to gain entry.
The border crackdown was wrapped up in an overall $34.8 billion spending plan for the Homeland Security Department. The House and Senate each aim to approve it later this week, before lawmakers recess for the elections.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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Here's a link to the declassified portion of the NIE report that was leaked. It's a PDF file.
About the role of Iraq:
We assess that the Iraq jihad is shaping a new generation of terrorist leaders and operatives; perceived jihadist success there would inspire more fighters to continue the
struggle elsewhere. ... The Iraq conflict has become the "cause celebre" for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement. Should jihadists leaving Iraq perceive themselves, and be perceived, to have failed, we judge fewer fighters will be inspired to carry on the fight.
The soft underbelly of the jihadists:
The jihadists' greatest vulnerability is that their ultimate political solution -- an ultra-conservative interpretation of shari'a-based governance spanning the Muslim world -- is unpopular with the vast majority of Muslims.
The need for democratic reform:
If democratic reform efforts in Muslim majority nations progress over the next five years, political participation probably would drive a wedge between intransigent extremists and groups willing to use the political process to achieve their local objectives. Nonetheless, attendant reforms and potentially destabilizing transitions will create new opportunities for jihadists to exploit.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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Bush released this to demonstrate how WaPo and NY Slimes cherry picked it.
After the release, CNN, MSNBC both continued to cherry pick the document, totally ignoring the favorable text.
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/27/2006 3:33 Comments ||
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#2
As predicted yesterday, Instapundit has an early review:
While we should fire the leakers on general principles, we should probably also fire whoever wrote this -- for producing a meaningless document full of empty bureaucratic twaddle. If the jihadists win, they'll have more prestige! And they will probably use the internets! Do tell. Jesus Christ, if this is the quality of intelligence we're getting, no wonder we haven't won yet.
Bush should let this be used as an impeachment of the CIA to justify reductions in its funding and the creation of new, effective intelligence agency(ies) in its place.
#4
Statement by the Director of National Intelligence, John D. Negroponte, in response to
news reports about the National Intelligence Estimate on Trends in Global Terrorism (PDF)
#5
NS, the sad part is that is representative of the intelligence we are getting. There is a LLL Mo0nb@+ culture in CIA and State that views everything through a We hate Bush and We know better prism. I bet the only good work is being done with the three vilified programs: Interrogations, phone monitoring, and bank monitoring.
#6
This morning the local television news anchor announced that this had been released, and that anyone who is interested can go look at it. There are enough people who will, I suspect, to kill this the issue aborning. The proof one way or another is whether the MSM continues to talk about it for more than a few days.
ISLAMABAD: Many in Pakistan are as surprised and taken aback by General Pervez Musharraf's version of the 1999 Kargil operation in his book In the Line of Fire as people in India, with some saying it undercut the country's Kashmir cause to the point of no return.
The Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) accused the President of "lying" to project the operation as a victory for Pakistan and demanded the publication of the minutes of the Cabinet Defence Committee meetings on Kargil.
Nisar Ali Khan, the party's acting parliamentary leader said at a press conference that General Musharraf had admitted that the operation was a failure during a meeting with then Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif at Lahore, before the latter's departure for the U.S. to meet President Bill Clinton.
Mr. Sharif made the allegation some months ago that he had not been informed of the operation and learnt about it only after Atal Bihari Vajpayee, the then Prime Minister of India, called him about it.
In the book, Gen. Musharraf has said while the operation was "a landmark" for the Pakistan army, Prime Minister Sharif, who knew about the operation from word go, threw it all away by capitulating to the U.S.
In a "white paper" on Kargil last month, the PML(N) said Pakistan's decision to withdraw from the mountain heights that it had occupied during the operation was done at the behest of Gen. Musharraf, who said it was the only "honourable' option left.
The Dawn, describing the operation as a "misadventure", called for an impartial enquiry.
"Let the government appoint a retired judge of the Supreme Court to hold a thorough investigation and let the nation know the truth about Kargil," it said.
Posted by: john ||
09/27/2006 20:05 ||
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Somebody send an emmissary from the Arab League to Pakistan Muslim League that it is mandatory to claim victory when your butt has been kicked by an infidel.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/27/2006 23:11 Comments ||
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"uprising by the people" ? That is the same garbage he tries with India in Kashmir
On the eve of the tripartite meeting between himself, Afghan President Hamid Karzai and President Bush at a White House Ifthar dinner hosted by Bush, President Pervez Musharraf slammed Karzai, describing him as "an ostrich," who doesn't want to tell the world about the real facts in Afghanistan "for his own personal reasons."
In an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, only hours after Karzai had described Musharraf as 'his brother President Musharraf,' in a joint press conference with Bush at the White House, Musharraf said, "He is not oblivious, he knows everything, but he is purposely denying -- turning a blind eye like an ostrich. He doesn't want to tell the world what is the fact for his own personal reasons. That is what I think."
Musharraf was responding to a question by Blitzer who said that in a March interview, Musharraf had said Karzai "...is totally oblivious to what is happening in his own country. "Blitzer asked him if he believed Karzai was still oblivious or whether he (Musharraf) owed him an apology.
Musharraf went on to say, "In the governance in Afghanistan there is a certain community, which is feeling alienated and it has 50-60 per cent representation in Afghanistan. That is his problem."
"He (Karzai) has to balance out and he has not been able to do that and therefore he is trying to hide that everything is happening from Pakistan," he added.
Musharraf warned, "This is a Pukhtun uprising by the people. If he doesn't understand this, he will keep going on and we are going to lose in Afghanistan."
Going by the tensions and the rhetoric that keeps exacerbating, President Bush will certainly have his work cut out in refereeing this contest on Wednesday over dinner and one wonders whether instead of breaking the Ramadan fast with the traditional dates, which precedes the Ifthar dinner, Musharraf and Karzai may end up flinging them at one another!
Posted by: john ||
09/27/2006 17:01 ||
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So, American troops are dying because of an "uprising" by Pashtun people?
Perv, America is not India, the whipping you can expect is beyond your comprehension, or pathetic wargaming...
A head of state saluting the comedy central audience and peddling his book...I've seen it all...
Posted by: john ||
09/27/2006 17:13 Comments ||
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Comedy Central is the appropriate audience for the Perv, after all.
Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf bluntly told Canadians on Tuesday to stop complaining about the number of soldiers they were losing in Afghanistan, saying Canadas death toll was far less than Pakistans.
Canada has 2,300 troops based in the southern Afghan city of Kandahar. In the last three months, 20 soldiers have been killed in clashes with Taleban militants, prompting calls for the mission to be brought back home.
Musharraf told the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. that if Canada was worried about soldier fatalities, it should not be in the war-torn country. When you get involved in places like Iraq or Lebanon or Afghanistan, yes indeed you have to suffer casualties, and the nation must be prepared to suffer casualties. So if youre not prepared to suffer casualties as an army, then dont participate in any operation, he said in an interview.
Since Canada joined the U.S.-led war on terror in late 2001, about 35 of its soldiers have died in Afghanistan. Musharraf, whose country neighbors Pakistan, dismissed this as a mere handful. We have suffered 500 casualties. The Canadians have suffered four or five. What are you talking about? Who are you talking to? Who are you talking to? You are talking to the president of a country that has suffered 500 casualties, he said. You have suffered two dead and there is crying and shouting all around the place that there are coffins. Well, weve had 500 coffins.
Prime Minister Stephen Harpers chief spokeswoman said she was unaware of the comments.
Musharraf also dismissed a suggestion by Canadian Defence Minister Gordon OConnor that Canadian troops might be based in Pakistan to help the fight against militants. I can assure you our troops are more effective and we have more experience of war. This (suggestion) shows a lack of trust in Pakistan, he said.
Posted by: john ||
09/27/2006 16:59 ||
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our troops are more effective and we have more experience of war
You more experience of losing war Perv.
Posted by: john ||
09/27/2006 17:07 Comments ||
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Making Friends and Influencing Allies: Perv's Book and Amity Tour.
#3
So far he has pissed off the Governments in Washington, London, Ottawa, Canberra, Kabul and New Delhi.
Wonder who is next?
Posted by: john ||
09/27/2006 17:40 Comments ||
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Just keep on pissing in the punchbowl, Perv. So long as Pakistan remains the world's premier trainer and exporter of lunatic jihadist killers, your whingeing about domestic troop casualties will just outrage more and more people. Every time you open your damned piehole more ICBMs get retargeted.
#7
Sorry, I am with Pervez on this one. The other day I saw a headline that the American death toll surpassed the lives lost during 9/11. I think the whole body count mentality is stupidity by the West. Individually, each soldier death is a precious and depressing loss, but there is no magic number of deaths we can reach after which this war becomes a mistake. Anyone who doesn't get it should contact the PTA of a town called Beslan and ask them how many Russian soldiers they are willing to lose in fighting terrorists.
Make fun of Pervez, but remember that eventually he will die in this war and we will live. I expect that once the kooks finally get him we will be forced to address the problem in Pakistan directly. Right now he is buying us time because we have plenty more to do. Pakistan certainly has not been a military success, but right now there are Pakistanis sitting at high altitude on a glacier shooting at Indians. They don't quit.
If we are to win this, it would be better to drop the tote board and certainly not complain about our losses to visiting heads of state.
It would be worse if we started complaining to the Iraqis about our casualties. We have decided, rightfully so, that we don't want to fight terrorists in Des Moines and instead are fighting them in the blood washed streets of Baghdad. Unfortunately the blood is currently gushing from the Iraqi civilian populous. We owe one thing to is and to them. We need to win.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/27/2006 23:50 Comments ||
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Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf lashed out at Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai in an interview with Canada AM, accusing him of misleading the public on the war on terror. "I think he is purposely, purposely not speaking the truth. That is what I think," Musharraf told host Beverly Thomson in an interview in New York on Tuesday. "He knows the truth. He's finding it more convenient for himself to hide the truth and cast all expression on Pakistan."
Musharraf accused Karzai of casting blame on Pakistan to distract from the ethnic imbalance in the Afghan government. "Taliban have ruled Afghanistan for six years. Where did they come from? They come from Pakistan? They took over the whole of Afghanistan -- they were the locals, they were right there," said Musharraf, whose Muslim nation is a key ally of U.S. President George Bush in the war on terrorism.
The general said he was forced to consider how Afghan-trained insurgents might attack North American targets when he decided whether to play a role in the war on terror. "The route is through Pakistan and therefore we would be sucked in. We have to play a role, otherwise we will be forced to play a role, maybe, especially with our security problems in the east," he said. "We had an enemy in India who would be prepared any time to support and play a role in rolling over Pakistan and reaching out to Afghanistan, so all these things have to be considered."
"Otherwise we will be forced to play a role, maybe, as a target"
Karzai and Musharraf, who are squabbling over whether Pakistan is doing enough to prevent militants there from supporting the insurgency in Afghanistan, are to meet with Bush on Wednesday. Bush said Tuesday he wanted "to watch the body language of these two leaders to determine how tense things are." Karzai replied: "I'll be good."
Karzai hasn't named Pakistan, but has been clearly inferring for months that his neighbor to the south and east has been soft on the ethnically Pashtun, Islamic fundamentalist Taliban, which has roots in both countries. On Tuesday, Afghanistan's elected leader said: "We know our problems. We have difficulties. But Afghanistan also knows where the problem is, in extremism, in madrassas preaching hatred, places by the name of madrassas preaching hatred."
"Places beginning with the letter "P".
Karzai also appeared critical of a deal Musharraf's government reached early this month with the tribal chiefs in North Waziristan, an area along the Afghanistan border that's only nominally under government control. The tribal areas of Pakistan along the Afghanistan border are seen as a sanctuary for al Qaeda fighters -- and possibly even hiding leaders like Osama bin Laden -- and of fighters for the Taliban. The deal will see Pakistan's troops retreat to their barracks and not attack the tribal leaders. In return, the tribal leaders agree not to go fight in Afghanistan. Foreign fighters, meaning those with al Qaeda, would have to leave or respect the deal.
"We will have to wait and see if that is going to be implemented exactly the way it is signed," Karzai said.
"It's not like I believe it, but one must observe formalities"
"But, generally, we will back any move, any deal that will deny terrorism a sanctuary in North Waziristan or in the tribal territories of Pakistan."
Musharraf, who was interviewed by Canada AM to talk about his new autobiography "In the Line of Fire," said he felt it important that he write his memoirs. "As far as I'm concerned, I took the reality into account that I am in focus today, and that Pakistan is in focus today," he said. "There are so many misperceptions and misunderstandings of the area and fight against al Qaeda or Taliban or the environment of Pakistan," he said.
You mean like the misperception that you're an trusted ally
On Monday, Musharraf said it was Karzai who wasn't doing enough to battle extremism in Afghanistan. "As soon as President Karzai understands his own country, the easier it'll be for him," he told the U.S. Council on Foreign Relations.
Bush played down the sniping, saying it wasn't affecting efforts to fight terror. "Quite the contrary. We're working as hard as ever in doing that," Bush told reporters."It's in President Karzai's interest to see Bin Laden brought to justice. It is in President Musharraf's interests to see Bin Laden brought to justice. Our interests coincide," Bush said.
Musharraf would be delighted if Binny was captured any place but Pakistan.
Musharraf became the first head of state to appear on the hit U.S. political satire show "The Daily Show" this week. He had barely thanked host Jon Stewart for the jasmine green tea and Twinkies when Stewart cut to the chase.
"Where's Osama bin Laden?"
"I don't know," replied Musharraf in the pre-recorded interview. "You know where he is? You lead on, we'll follow you."
So you won't mind if we start overturning stones in Pakistan?
But Musharraf was frank when Stewart asked if he had not mentioned the U.S. war in Iraq in his memoir because it has "gone so well." "It has led certainly to more extremism and terrorism around the world," Musharraf said.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/27/2006 09:47 ||
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Locals? In times of Massood, the Northern alliance captured a number of Taliban "locals" who didn't speak a word of Pahsto only in Urdu. Funny locals isn't it?
#4
Why is it Pakistan so strongly denies Al-Qaida exists on it's soil?
Admitting it means they'd get more pressure to do something about it.
They wouldn't do anything about it, which would likely result in some sort of punishment. They might lose access to parts for fighters, or access to the US market, or even their nukes.
It would also mean the US would tend closer to India, which would put Pakistan in a worse position.
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
09/27/2006 12:03 Comments ||
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Karzai versus Peverse, the later is the greater BS star any day.
Accusing Pakistan of being a nursery of global terrorism, India has asked Pakistan once again to stop all cross-border terrorism as promised and dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism still intact on its soil. While the fragile political fabric of states in Indias neighbourhood is a source of continuing anxiety to New Delhi, Pakistan remains a nursery of global terrorism, said visiting Indian Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee in a talk at Harvard University in Boston on Monday. Post 9/11, Pakistan has reportedly helped the US to fight terrorism along its western border with Afghanistan. But it has done precious little to dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism on its eastern border with India, he said in his talk on Indias Strategic Perspective.
India has repeatedly stated that, in order to proceed with the ongoing peace-process between the two countries, Pakistan must implement the solemn assurances it has given to stop all cross-border terrorism, and the Indian defence minister said that this has not yet happened. If Pakistan claims to be a frontline state in the global war against terrorism, then it must do much more to dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism still intact on its soil, Mukherjee said welcoming the recent Havana accord between the two countries to set up an institutional mechanism to tackle cross-border terrorism.
The rise of religious fundamentalism and terrorism is today one of the gravest security challenges to states, economies, peoples and democratic polities, he said adding, It has been starkly etched in our memory by the recent Mumbai blasts, the London, Madrid and Bali bombings, and of course, the traumatic terrorist attack on the US five years ago. Putting terrorism at the top of Indias six principal security challenges, Mukherjee said India had suffered the most gruesome and repeated acts of terror since the late 1970s first in Punjab, then in Jammu and Kashmir, and in recent years in many other parts of the country.
Mukherjee said that the Mumbai blasts of 1993 were the original act of mass terrorism. Indias places of worship, symbols of rapid economic growth, prestigious centres of learning, popular shopping complexes and symbols of vibrant democracy had all been systematically targeted, he added.
While in most parts of the world, terrorism is perpetrated by non-state actors, in India it is sponsored and supported by state agencies from a hostile neighbourhood, Mukherjee said obviously referring to Pakistan. The second challenge in his view was that India, which has had to fight three wars on its western borders and one in the north since independence, continues to face a proxy war from across its western border, he said in another obvious reference to Pakistan. Its unresolved territorial and boundary issues with neighbours persist he noted.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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What is it about the LINE-OF-CONTROL regions between INDIA, PAK, + CHINA that makes people turn towards Radicalism, want OWG + Totalitarianism, and ultim to attack and destroy America??? To want and desire SUPPRESSION + REPRESSION + REGRESSION + ANARCHIES, etal. in the name of freedom and independence.
#5
If India keeps this up, they will gain well-earned and appropriate credibility as one of the few truly functional sub-continental or Asian democracies.
Senator Khurshid Ahmed of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal has complained to the Senate Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges that security agencies did not let him meet nuclear scientist Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan in Aga Khan Hospital, Karachi.
The senator said Senate Chairman Muhammadmian Soomro, who is currently acting president while Gen Pervez Musharraf is in the United States, had arranged the meeting but still security agencies disallowed it. The standing committee is scheduled to meet on September 28. Mr Ahmed said he wanted to convey "prayers and the felicitations" to Dr Khan.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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PESHAWAR: The management of a cinema owned by the Pakistan Air Force on Tuesday refused to close the cinema during Ramazan on the directives of the provincial government. The NWFP government on Monday circulated a notification among all the cinemas in the province asking them to close in Ramazan. Naeem Khan, manager of the PAF cinema, told Daily Times that he received the government notification on Monday evening. I did not sign the letter issued by the Department of Religious Affairs and refused to close the cinema, Khan said. I told the police to take up the case with PAF officials as we accept orders from the PAF and not the provincial government.
Khan said the police visited the cinema three times to close it but we refused. Wilayat Khan, manager of Tasweer Mahal Cinema, Ejaz Khan, manager of Novelty Cinema, and Mumtaz Khan, manager of Picture House Cinema, said they closed their cinemas after they were served government notices through police station house officers. In the notification, Minister for Religious Affairs Imanullah Haqani told cinema owners that they must close their cinema houses in respect of the holy month of Ramazan, the managers said. The SHOs had us sign the letter and warned us to close the cinema otherwise the police will not be responsible for any attacks on the cinemas, they said.
The police forced us to close the cinema, Rohullah, an employee of Sabrina Cinema, told Daily Times. He said the owners had closed their cinemas for fear of attacks by religious activists and clerics.
The Amar Bil Maroof Wanahi Anil-Munkar organisation created by Dr Zakir Shah and local clerics has banned music and video shops and cable operators in four colonies in the city: Yousaf, Anis, Ittihad and Muslim colonies. There is a complete ban on music and video centres, video games arcades and cable operators for the past 15 years, said Maulana Saddique, an imam and an active member of the organisation. These are the main sources of obscenity and vulgarity and should be banned from society, Saddique said. The whole of Peshawar would soon be free of cable, music and video centres and cinema houses as the organisation is expanding its operations to cover the entire city, he said. It is not Talibanisation. It is done solely to live according to the Shariah and provide a peaceful and Islamic society to our youth, Saddique said.
The youths of these colonies said they were not in favour of these restrictions but were forced to comply with the organisations orders. We wish we had cable connections, music and video centres but it is impossible since for the past 15 years no one including the government has been able to oppose the organisation, Arif, a young resident of Peshawar, said.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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Maulana Saddique, an imam and an active member of the organisation.
Saddique, that is an adequate name for a Mullah. Specially in French, where it is pronnounced identical as "Sadique" (with a single d) who means sadic.
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/27/2006 20:22 Comments ||
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Must be nice to be a business over there with ready accessibility to close air support when dealing with these assholes.
Mahmoud the sweetmeat vendor must be green with envy. And also closed...
President General Pervez Musharraf on Monday night said he was confident that he would win elections "hands down" because he was popular in Pakistan. Replying to a question during an interview with Fox TV whether US President George Bush was pressuring him to restore full democracy in Pakistan, Musharraf said that while Bush encouraged him to do so, he was under no pressure at all. At the same time, he said he has brought about democracy in Pakistan from the grassroots to the top tier the parliament.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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President General Pervez Musharraf on Monday night said he was confident that he would win elections "hands down" because he was popular in Pakistan. the only one allowed to run.
There. Fixed it.
Posted by: Baba Tutu ||
09/27/2006 0:36 Comments ||
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LOL! Well, if you have to have a dictator, it's better to have one with a sense of humor! Heck, I'll bet he can even tell you how many votes he'll get!
#4
I don't know if anyone caught the General on The Daily Show last night but I made a point to tune in. I was glad to see a sense of humor in the General.
For those who missed the interview, here's all you really need to know. Stewart presented, in all seriousness, a hypothetical to the General. Given how "divided" Pakistan is between extremists and moderates (personally, I'm not so sure it really is that divided), if both George W. Bush and Osama bin Laden were running for President in Pakistan, who would win?
#7
It's both important that Perv win and win big, and that his opponents, the Islamists, lose and lose big. He has just handed them a humiliating defeat with his women's rights act, so hopefully they will get the snot kicked out of them in the elections.
This matters, because they have stood in past between him and cracking down on the madrassas. In fact, they've done everything they could to give aid and comfort to the bad guyz.
With them mostly out of the way, I expect that he will start doing some major hurt on a lot of people we don't like.
President General Pervez Musharraf on Tuesday rejected NATO security assessments that Talibans headquarters was in Quetta. Anyone who says this is wrong. This is the most ridiculous statement, he said, adding that Pakistan did not have financial resources to support the Taliban who, he said, were being financed by poppy growers.
Speaking at the Council on Foreign Relations after the formal launch of his book In The Line of Fire, Musharraf said Afghan President Hamid Karzai didnt understand the environment in his country and said that the Taliban could not be defeated only by force. He criticised Karzai for claiming that militants hiding in Pakistans tribal areas were behind the rise in violence in Afghanistan. The sooner President Karzai understands his own country, the better, Musharraf said, adding that the Afghan president was to be blamed for disenfranchising the Pushtoons, who make up a majority of the Afghan population.
However, Musharraf praised his Afghan counterpart as the best choice to lead Afghanistan as it rebuilds after decades of war. To a question, he said Pakistan was being made a scapegoat for the resurgence of the Taliban and the increase in their attacks in Afghanistan. It is unfair that Karzai thinks all this is happening from Pakistan, he said, claiming that Mulla Omar has not been in Pakistan since 1995, AFP reported. Its unfortunate that everything is blamed on Pakistan.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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If not Quetta, where?
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/27/2006 3:37 Comments ||
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Chittagong (Bangladesh) Anchorage Tally: Thirty three incidents have been reported since January 28. Pirates are targeting ships preparing to anchor.
Recently reported incidents
September 24 2006 at 1012 LT near Moyapura in Hugli River, Kolkata, India. One boat with four persons carrying grappling hooks approached a container ship underway. Crew mustered and boat moved away.
September 24 2006 at 0545 lt at Dar Es Salaam outer anchorage, Tanzania. Five robbers boarded a LPG tanker at forecastle deck. Deck Officer raised alarm, activated SSAS [Ship Security Alert System], crew mustered and secured accommodation doors form inside. Robbers stole ship stores and escaped. Port control informed and security police boarded for investigation.
September 23 2006 at 0440 LT at Chittagong anchorage 'A', Bangladesh. Eight robbers in a boat approached a bulk carrier and two robbers boarded at stern. Alert crew raised alarm and crew mustered with bars. After 10 mins robbers jumped into the water and escaped. Port control informed.
September 21 2006 at 2005 LT at 12:01S - 077:13.5W, Callao Roads anchorage no.12, Peru. A robber boarded a container ship whilst port authorities boarded for formalities. Deck Officer raised alarm but the robber threw ship's stores overboard and threatened the duty crew with a big knife. Upon seeing crew alertness the robber jumped into the water and escaped with a boat waiting with four accomplices. Harbour master was informed and a coast guard patrol boat arrived to search the area.
September 20 2006 at 1750 UTC in posn 22:09.57N - 091:44.77E, Chittagong anchorage, Bangladesh. Eight robbers in an unlit boat attempted to board a container ship from the stern by using hooks and ropes. Alert duty crew raised alarm and robbers aborted attempt. Port control and coast guard informed.
September 19 2006 at 0300 LT in posn 24:07.7S - 046:18.2W, Santos anchorage no.4, Brazil. Three masked robbers armed with guns boarded a container ship and held a duty crew as hostage. They took his walkie talkie and freed him at 0420 LT and he raised alarm. Robbers opened eight containers but escaped empty handed.
September 19 2006 at 0215 LT in posn 24:07S - 046:21W, Santos anchorage area no.4, Brazil. Seven robbers armed with guns in six meter long blue hull boat boarded a container ship. They held hostage one watchman but another watchman escaped and report[ed] to Deck Officer. Crew mustered and SSAS activated and port authorities informed. Robbers broke in to a container and escaped 50 mins later in their boat.
September 19 2006 at 0200 LT in posn 24:05.1S - 046:21.5W, Santos outer anchorage no.3, Brazil. Robbers boarded a container ship and broke seals on 16 containers on deck but escaped empty handed. Port control informed.
And from the Better Late than Never Desk:
September 11.09.2006 at 2355 LT in posn 06:19.5N - 003:25.0E, Lagos outer roads, Nigeria. Two robbers boarded a product tanker during Ship To Shore operations. Alert crew mustered but robbers stole ship's stores and escaped.
#5
Don't laugh, but the crew possessing firearms would place the ship's 'merchant' classification in jeopardy.
A ship could hire security personnel, but most owners won't. One, it costs money. Two, insurance generally covers the losses, or the financial loss is limited to the ship (in many cases, shipowners will create a separate company for each vessel they own).
If a crew member dies or gets injured in a pirate attack, well, there may an insurance payout by the casualty/indemnity company, insurance the individual was able to take out, or somebody else willing to take the injured/decedent's place.
Iraqi President Jalal Talabani said that the US military presence in Iraq keeps neighbors from invading his country. "The American presence has always prevented any kind of foreign invasion to Iraq," Talabani said.
"That's one of the main reasons why we think that we need an American presence, even symbolical, in the country to prevent our neighbors attacking us," he said at a forum at the Woodrow Wilson Center, a Washington think thank.
Talabani also said Baghdad could not "further tolerate" neighbors' interference in its internal affairs. "I think that our neighbors must understand that our patience is limited," he said, refusing to single out countries but adding "we mean all of them."
And wouldn't you know it but the Iraqi army is rapidly improving ...
Asked if there was concern over aggression from Turkey, Talabani said: "I don't think there is any danger for invasion by Turkey to Iraq." Iraq has "good relations" with the government of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and could help Ankara in its conflict with the separatist Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), he said. "We could convince PKK to stop fighting in Turkey," the Iraqi leader said.
Might be a good idea to do just that then.
Talabani also insisted that Iraq would not spiral down into civil war. "There would be no civil war. We have problems, we have some kind of extremists who are fighting against each other. They are not representing the whole society," he said.
He also defended the US military presence in Iraq. "The immediate departure of coalition forces would only unleash the terrorists," Talabani said. "I cannot promise when or how the American presence will completely end in Iraq but I can promise that American soldiers do not fight in vain."
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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Talabani: US troop presence keeps neighbors from invading
#2
He's, of course, right. We need to sustain our presence until the Iraqis are fully capable of taking care of themselves. They live in a bad neighborhood.
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/27/2006 3:40 Comments ||
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#3
I think he means Iran who would love to takeover Iraq!!!
#7
"I think that our neighbors must understand that our patience is limited," he said, refusing to single out countries but adding "we mean all of them."
He's absolutely correct not to single any out and to say "we mean all of them". The only countries bordering on Iraq that want them to succeed are Kuwait and Jordan.
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
09/27/2006 11:58 Comments ||
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Is this another speech?
If so, he's starting to warn them on a regular basis.
#9
Turkey wouldn't mind a piece of the Kurdish area on the pretense that they're fighting the PKK.
Maybe. I could imagine Turkey going in there to do a little housekeeping, but I don't think they'd stay if they didn't have to. They want very little to do with the Kurds, and I don't think the Kurdish area has any oil. Then again, there's Cyprus.
(Xinhua) -- U.S. President George W. Bush said on Tuesday that he "strongly disagrees" that Iraq war was a mistake and it is wrong to think the Iraq war has worsened terrorism. According to a national intelligence assessment report by the Bush administration and leaked to the media, the threat of terrorism has become worse since the Sept. 11 terror attacks due to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
"Some people have guessed what's in the report and concluded that going into Iraq was a mistake. I strongly disagree," Bush said at a press conference with visiting Afghan President Hamid Karzai. "I think it's a mistake for people to believe that going on the offense against people that want to do harm to the American people makes us less safe," he said.
Watched him on the Fox newsfeed as he answered this: there was the Dubya I know and admire.
Bush said at the press conference that he decided to declassify part of the report called National Intelligence Estimate. UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan has warned that if the current violence continues in Iraq, a full-scale civil war might break out in the country.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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But he's not foaming at the mouth when he says it, so he must be wrong.
#3
You mean like 'democratizing' the former British colonies in North America when blacks, women, non-landowning males were excluded from participation? Or the political cleansing that followed as 10s of thousands of crown loyalists were greatly encouraged to depart their property and home for 'friendlier' locations? How many people of the period really thought it was going to last long? How many Europeans were surprised when Washington freely gave up power?
Why do so many people use perfection as a standard and anything less as failure?
I do recall something Bush said about this whole thing was going to be long and difficult, regardless of the 'newspeak' coughed up by the Donks and moonbats.
#4
Jihadi are coming to Iraq and we are killing them in large numbers, and Iraq may actually develop Democracy despite the bloodshed.
I'd say things are working according to plan even if the Democracy doesn't happen I'd call it a success if we don' thave to invade Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Iran to get them.
#5
Obviously, there are 2 kinds of Iraqis. Those who want a chance at freedom, and those who are willing to kill and die for (Allan, Baathist, tribal whatever, hate mericans, all of de above).
When the latter realizes that the former is by far the majority, and they are becoming very powerful, then this experiment enters phaze 2.
Till then, America's military is becoming smarter and smarter tactics wise, and war experienced, which reduces casualties while kicking asses.
Iran is going to look pretty simple when we have 140,000 experienced Americans and 300,000 experienced Iraqis on their border.
#7
Iraq war was no mistake but failure to name the enemy in the WoT properly is still a mistake. That hateful ideology is still islam although some of its born (and forced to remain) adherents themselves may privately have different ideals about life but ineffectually.
#8
I know we'd all feel better if the villian were named but really is it that important? Everyone in the West is pretty clear on who is the problem and it gives a bit of wiggle-room to the less violent Muslims to come on over to the winning team rather than side with, and die with, the seething hordes.
AMMAN - Jordans parliament has approved a law bringing Muslim preachers under government control despite objections from Islamist MPs, a parliamentary source said Tuesday.
The law, due to be approved by the senate on Wednesday, covers Islamic sermons and classes in mosques and requires preachers and teachers to get written approval from the ministry of religious affairs. The government said the law was necessary in the fight against terrorism, the source said.
Jordans 17 Islamist MPs abstained from voting on Sunday, slamming the law in a statement as a step backward for public freedom and democracy in Jordan.
And you have to be a real Islamist to understand public freedom and democracy in an Arab state.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Please make a list of objectors and their objections.
a step backward for public freedom and democracy in Jordan
So why are you whining?
I hope that guy in the graphic isn't holding that book upside down or he must die.
GENEVA - Israel has turned the Gaza Strip into a prison for Palestinians where life is intolerable, appalling, tragic and the Jewish state appears to have thrown away the key, a UN human rights envoy said on Tuesday.
Got everything right except the 'cause-effect' part.
UN special wrapper rapporteur on human rights in the occupied Palestinian territory John Dugard said that the suffering of the Palestinians was a test of the readiness of the international community to protect human rights. If ... the international community cannot ... take some action, (it) must not be surprised if the people ... disbelieve that they are seriously committed to the promotion of human rights, he told the United Nations Human Rights Council.
The international community generally isn't committed to human rights, it's committed to talking about human rights. That's a difference a special wrapper of the UN should understand.
Israel hit back saying there was an alarming disconnect between the rapporteurs report to the UNs human rights watchdog and the experience of Israelis who continued to face the daily threat of Palestinian terrorism.
'Alarming disconnect' is the proper diplomatic form of "You idiot! Pay Attention to what you're seeing!"
The South African lawyer, who has been a special UN investigator since 2001, repeated earlier accusations that Israel is breaking international humanitarian law with security measures which amount to collective punishment.
Since the Paleos seem to be in it together, it's appropriate to keep them all away from the Israelis.
Israel says its security restrictions, which include the construction of a steel and concrete barrier in the West Bank, are designed to stop suicide bombers entering Israel. Bombings have declined since the barrier was built.
Which the special wrapper didn't notice: it's hard to see the gore that hasn't been splattered.
It also maintains tight restrictions on the movement of goods and people into and out of Gaza, a coastal strip that it pulled out of last year after 38 years of occupation.
Especially the guns and ammo.
Dugard also attacked the United States, the European Union and Canada for withdrawing funding for the Palestinian Authority in protest at the governing party Hamass refusal to accept Israels right to exist. Israel violates international law as expounded by the Security Council and the International Court of Justice and goes unpunished. But the Palestinian people are punished for having democratically elected a regime unacceptable to Israel, the US and the EU, Dugard said.
The Paleos have a right to elect crazed killers to lead their government. We have a right not to give cash to crazed killers. That's one of our rights under that vaunted international law of yours, you could look it up.
But Israels ambassador to the UN in Geneva Itzhak Levanon said that by putting the entire blame on Israel the report absolves the terrorists that have taken Palestinian society hostage from even the most minimal responsibility.
You're trying to talk sense to a special wrapper and that doesn't work ...
Dugard said that three-quarters of Gazas 1.4 million people were dependent on food aid.
Stop the food aid and the Paleos might finally wake up. Cold but true.
Bombing raids by Israel since the June 25 capture of an army corporal by Palestinian militants had destroyed houses and the territorys only power plant. Gaza is a prison and Israel seems to have thrown away the key, he said.
It's just not enough of a prison yet for the Paleos to come to their senses.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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First time in history tht prisoners built their own prison then locked them selves into it and threw away the key.
#2
Suppose you were to take the entire population of Gaza and ship them someplace else, say Geneva, and replace them with a like number of Swiss citizens.
Does anyone doubt that in short order Geneva would become a fetid wasteland of violence and corruption, poverty stricken and shunned as hopeless and threatening by its neighbors, while the new Gaza would be peaceful, prosperous and open?
The problem isn't Israel. It's Palestinian culture. Can't be fixed by funding. They are going to have to want to change it for themselves. So far there's little sign they do, and therefore little reason for hope.
Posted by: Baba Tutu ||
09/27/2006 0:57 Comments ||
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#3
Baba Tutu, don't reveal next year's Survivor - it will get Fred sued.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/27/2006 1:03 Comments ||
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#4
Israel has turned the Gaza Strip into a prison for Palestinians where life is intolerable, appalling, tragic and the Jewish state appears to have thrown away the key, a UN human rights envoy said on Tuesday.
John Dugard is either stupid or had a gun in his ear. Since he probably spoke to this reporter from his air-conditioned office in the UN, anybody not part of the UN can probably figure out the correct answer here.
I'd say the Paleostinians did it to themselves. And honestly they seem to enjoy it. Probably out of ignorance. As soon as they get smart and figure that out, things will get better.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/27/2006 5:12 Comments ||
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#8
. . . Gaza Strip into a prison for Palestinians where life is intolerable, appalling, tragic . . . the suffering of the Palestinians was a test of the readiness of the international community to protect human rights
It never ceases to amaze me that they spend more time worrying about paleos, where much of the tragedy is self-inflicted, than they do on Darfur, where TENS OF THOUSANDS of people are being killed, raped, displaced.
Any mention of the rockets fired into Israel, or weapons smuggling, all of which occured after Israel UNILATERALLY withdrew from Gaza? Any mention of the factional infighting? Any mention of the lack of productive, positive collaboration amongst paleos to create a better life? Any mention of the looting? Any mention of the destruction of property after the withdrawal?
Didn't think so.
"Collective punishment." It seems to me that it was the "collective" that brought Hamas into power. It is the "collective" that does nothing to stop rockets. It is the "collective" that does nothing to create a thriving community.
It is EXACTLY this sort of report that sustains hope for paleo victory and provides support for antagonism. It thwarts cooperation and compromise. Paleos think that these reports lend credibility to their plight and that world pressure will force Israel's hand. The UN is complicit in creating the very conditions they complain about.
What they don't realize is that the dynamic has changed. There is less sympathy for them now than there has been in a long time. Regardless, Israel will not succumb to pressure that will endanger her citizens.
The cluebat doesn't seem to be working. Get a bigger one.
#12
Well said Baby Tutu! The problem with the Pals (and most Arabs) is that they were never taught and have no inclination to become self sufficient. The un has institutionalized them to the point that they cant even take care of themselves. They dont know how to build a society, but they know how to make bombs, that alone should tell you a lot. I like the Swiss analogy. Switzerland has few natural resources, a small work force, and uses three languages, yet they are light years ahead of any Arab Middle Eastern society.
#13
It never ceases to amaze me that they spend more time worrying about paleos, where much of the tragedy is self-inflicted, than they do on Darfur, where TENS OF THOUSANDS of people are being killed, raped, displaced.
The (current) victims in Darfur may be Muslim, but the perpetrators are also Muslim, and are seen as more Arab than the victims.
Didn't one of their leading intellectuals declare all the concern over the genocide campaigns in Sudan to be a Zionist conspiracy?
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
09/27/2006 11:55 Comments ||
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#14
The UN never cared much about the timorese, for that matter, nor the southern sudanese... first a vehicle for third-worldism and marxists (as Pacepa explained), now a vehicle for tranzis and West-haters, with muslim pulling the strings with their deep pockets, and chinese playing their games.
(Xinhua) -- Palestinian Foreign Minister Mahmoudal-Zahar said on Tuesday that the Hamas-led government would not recognize Israel, nor would meet international demands. "The Palestinian government's position is steady and didn't change," Zahar, who is from Hamas, said in a news conference held in Gaza after his meeting with Brazilian ambassador in Jerusalem. "It won't recognize Israel, won't meet the international quartet's demands, won't respect signed deals and will continue resistance," he clarified.
The international community demands Hamas to recognize Israel, renounce violence and honor previous peace deals. Zahar argued that the nine previous Palestinian governments had abided by the international demands but failed to serve people or satisfy their minimum political and economical demands. Zahar's remarks came one day after Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas canceled his meeting with Prime Minister Ismail Haneya, who is also a senior Hamas official.
Regarding the meeting scheduled for Tuesday, Zahar said that Abbas did not cancel the meeting but "postponed it for some internal problems." Zahar added that the Hamas would meet with Abbas' deputy who would participate in meetings in Gaza to discuss the formation of a national unity government. The talks between the ruling Hamas movement and Abbas' Fatah on the coalition government was to some extent in a stalemate after the initial agreement on forming such a government reached on Sept. 11. Abbas' Fatah movement has accused Hamas of reneging on the agreement.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Oh, the poor Paleostinians. Perhaps the EU could help enable their behavior by giving them more money now.
#3
WHY SHOULD THEY - DEBKA.com + STRATEGYPAGE.com + other blogs > the Hizzies = Hezzies claim they still have 20,000 rockets and refuse to disarm Meanwhile, UNIFIL2 > duties more CAN'T, than can, wid more than enuff loopholes for Terrorists/
Terror units to slip through, or not stopped from doing anything agz Israel.
Egypt has demanded that Hamas immediately release a captured Israeli soldier to avoid a worsening crisis in the violence-battered Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials and Arab diplomats said Tuesday. The Egyptian demand came in a "strongly worded letter" from Egypt's powerful intelligence chief Omar Suleiman to the Syrian-based Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, they said. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the letter. The letter also demanded Hamas cooperate fully with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in forming a national unity government, a step that has been stalled by the militant group's refusal to form an administration that recognizes Israel.
The message reflected increasing impatience with Hamas by Egypt, which has been mediating for months, trying to reach a deal on a prisoner swap for the release of Israeli Cpl. Gilad Shalit, who is being held by Hamas-allied militants in Gaza. "The leadership has received the Egyptian letter today and is studying it," said a Hamas official close to Mashaal. "They are studying it carefully before they send back their response," he told the Associated Press from Damascus.
Israeli Channel 10 television reported earlier Tuesday that the letter carried a warning that if Shalit was not released by the end of the month Israel would launch a series of deep incursions into Gaza aimed at Hamas organizational targets and at high ranking Hamas figures. The Hamas official in Damascus said the letter contained no such warning and "no ultimatum what so ever, but its content was quite clear." Another Palestinian official in Cairo said Suleiman's letter was "strongly worded."
"He told them enough is enough and they should release the soldier immediately," he said.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Still think that the answer is to return Gaza to it's pre '67 condition. AKA make Egypt take it back. Should get rid of a whole lot of problems, no?
#2
In other words: "Quick, Hamas, make some sort of feeble meaningless halfhearted empty gesture to take the spotlight off of our clandestine nuclear program!"
Yadda yadda, though this one is particulary arrogant and aggressive (little racist, dwarf)... I like that bit : The Gaza imam said the only Christian-Muslim dialogue that is acceptable is one in which "all religions agree to convert to Islam."
KUALA LUMPUR The worlds largest Islamic grouping would revive two Saudi Arabia-based news organisations to counter Western medias skewered view of Islam, a Malaysian official said on Wednesday.
And you can count on a Saudi-based news organization not to "skewer" anything. Except maybe an infidel during sweeps week.
The 57-member Organization of the Islamic Conference, or OIC, would restart the International Islamic News Agency and the Islamic States Broadcasting Organization both set up in the 1970s, Malaysias deputy Information Minister Ahmad Zahid Hamid said. Malaysia is the current chairman of the OIC. We want to revive it, Zahid said, adding the Saudi information minister has asked Malaysia to head the task.
"Saudis" and "work" being exclusive of each other
It wasnt clear how long or why the two organizations which would provide text and video have been dormant. Zahid didnt provide details. The negative view of Islamic countries must change. The foreign media often has a bias against us, he said. They have a skewered view. No starting date or costs were provided.
Muslim nations, including Malaysia, have said media coverage by Western news organizations, particularly in the Middle East, is lopsided and portrays a negative view of Islam.
Ya mean reporting all those boomers, head-loppers, etc?
Malaysian Foreign Minister Syed Hamid Albar, after a tour of Lebanon, recently complained images and stories displayed a bias toward Israel.
Must be watching Fox News and not the BBC
Zahid said Malaysia has offered to set up a center for journalists from Islamic countries, which would be funded by the OIC, the worlds largest political grouping of Muslim nations.
Next part is....interesting
Separately, a news network under the 118-nation Nonaligned Movement would launch a Spanish news service, Malaysias Information Minister Zainuddin Maidin said. Zainuddin said he met representatives from Cuba and Venezuela recently, and four Spanish-language journalists from South America would soon be based at the NAM News Network headquarters in Kuala Lumpur.
Just what we need, a southern front
Posted by: Steve ||
09/27/2006 08:54 ||
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#1
Hahahaha! LOL, great headline.
. . . "skewered view"
Ya think that's a translation issue ("skewed"?) or a Freudian slip (i.e., "Western infidels, soon to be skewered upon the sword of Allah!")
I think we're going to have to start looking at further sanctions on Syria if it is to continue on the path it's currently on, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said on Tuesday. Rice, whose interview with The Wall Street Journal appeared on the State Department web site, said, "I think as Syria continues to show its stripes and isolate itself from its Arab friends, that may be somewhat easier to do. I think we're going to have to start looking at further sanctions on Syria we're going to have to look at tougher measures if Syria continues to be on the path that it's on."
"I think that the Syrians look as if they've made their choice and their choice is to associate with extremist forces in Iran, not with their traditional - calling it allies is not quite right - the traditional partners like the Arab states. But I think that that will cost Syria and I'm not certain how ultimately stable that configuration is to Syria. And it is isolated. The speech that Assad made accusing the Egyptians and the Saudis and the Jordanians of all kinds of things - has not helped them - but only helped him with his normal partners," she said.
Regarding the progress of democratization in the Arab world, Rice said, "In the Middle East, I think those trends are moving in the right direction but I think that we got a very big wakeup call in the summer with the war in Lebanon because in a way that it had not really been clarified before the Middle East with all of its historic animosities and so forth, I think had to confront its modern - its current environment, which is one in which extremism on one side and moderation on the other came into pretty sharp relief."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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This is Part Two of a two-part series by Ronald Kessler on the Central Intelligence Agency. To get the whole story, read Part One of the series, "Gen. Hayden Moves to Unify CIA."
WASHINGTON -- At least 5,000 terrorists have been captured or killed since 9/11, Gen. Michael V. Hayden, director of the Central Intelligence Agency, said in an interview.
Most of the terrorists have been rolled up by the CIA or with the agency's help. In some cases, the agency has killed terrorists, either with its paramilitary officers or its armed Predator drone aircraft. In other cases, the agency has fed leads to the military, the FBI, and foreign countries leading to capture of terrorists. CIA officers often participate in their capture as well.
"Al-Qaida's core operational leadership has been decimated, and their successors are in hiding or on the run," according to Hayden.
Despite those successes, "The organization remains capable of attacking us, because they're constantly evolving, and they're constantly trying to get back on track," Michael Morell, the CIA's associate deputy director, said in an interview following the meeting with Hayden. "And their command and control, to some extent, remains in place, and their ambition in no way has been diminished. They want nothing more than to have a success here in the homeland. The U.K. plotting is another example of that. So their capabilities, although diminished, remain. And that's why keeping up the pace here is so critically important."
#2
Only 5000? Gotta be a lot more total. This must refer to ones CIA had a hand in only.This snit on Iraq by the Dummocrats misses the entire point. Someone in DC, Cheney, Rummy (whom I'm no fan of) or someone else has it just right on Iraq. This is a magnet drawing the dimwits to the kill box. Let us keep a stand here with the brave troops and slaughter as many muzzie f**kwits as possible. Where do you clueless Dummocrats want to make your stand Philly ? Atlanta ? Westwood, Ca. ? I prefer to get them in the sewer of Iraq. My only complaint is that we need more boots and replenished equipment. Putting too much strain on this dedicated group we currently rely on. Can't find it in the budget? Bullshit! Increase the slice for DOD to 9-10% of GDP as in past during 'Nam. It was waay beyond that in WW2. Let's get serious and apply whatever level of effort is required now. Take the cuts somewhere else. I could find plenty. I'm sure these bright memebers of Congress could also, if they would stay there and work.
LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) - Kentucky's law forbidding protests within 300 feet of military funerals and memorial services was suspended temporarily Tuesday after a federal judge ruled it was too broad.
The law passed earlier this year was aimed at members of a Topeka, Kan., church who have toured the country protesting at military funerals. The Westboro Baptist Church claims the soldiers' deaths are a sign of God punishing America for tolerating homosexuality.
U.S. District Judge Karen Caldwell wrote that the law could restrict the free speech rights of people in nearby homes, sidewalks and streets, even if they cannot be seen or heard by funeral participants. The 300-foot zone "is large enough that it would restrict communications intended for the general public on a matter completely unrelated to the funeral as well as messages targeted at funeral participants," Caldwell wrote in a ruling issued in Frankfort.
I have to say that she's prob'ly right about this, but it's going to increase the chances of a confrontation with the degenerates from Westboro.
About a dozen states have similar laws in place, and Congress passed a law earlier this year prohibiting protests at military funerals at federal cemeteries.
Kentucky Attorney General Greg Stumbo said he would consider an appeal. "I believe that society has an interest in honoring its war dead. Funerals are times of sacred and solemn reflection which must be protected from aggressive disruption," Stumbo said in a statement.
Lili Lutgens, general counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky, which filed the suit, said Caldwell "reinforced the importance of freedom of expression," and that the ACLU will seek a permanent injunction throwing out the law. "We continue to support the commonwealth's efforts to protect funerals, but we know it's not necessary to violate the First Amendment to do that," she said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/27/2006 00:00 ||
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"... 300-foot zone "is large enough that it would restrict communications intended for the general public on a matter completely unrelated to the funeral as well as messages targeted at funeral participants," Caldwell wrote in a ruling issued in Frankfort."
A military person goes half-way around the world to die for freedom and we can't mandate a football field worth of quiet for the family as the space might inconvenience nitwits who are using the burial as venue for their jackassery.
We don't need an ordanance, we need vigilantees with clubs.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/27/2006 0:13 Comments ||
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#5
Nothing that a few sessions of energetic parking lot therapy can't cure. This is the scumbag crew of that twisted phreak, Fred Phelps. May they all fester and rot in their own eternal Christian hell. I wish the topside photo had a nice red laser dot between this sick fuck's eyes, just like I want for all the psycho imams.
If fundamentalist Christianity ever wonders why they have such a hard time gaining acceptance with secular America, look no further than Fred Phelps. I hope he is found dead of a heart attack in the arms of his AIDS infected underage homosexual transvestite prostitute lover.
If I haven't made myself clear enough, let me go on to say ... waaaaahgh!
#7
If fundamentalist Christianity ever wonders why they have such a hard time gaining acceptance with secular America, look no further than Fred Phelps.
Well, not to be picky, but Fred Phelps doesn't represent Fundamental Christianity any more than OJ represents the NFL Hall of Fame.
Fundamental Christian just means a Christian who believes in the fundamentals of the faith as non-negotiable, believes in the authority of scripture, and governs their life accordingly. While the scripture does condemn homosexuality as an abomination in several places, it never says a Christian should be the one doing the condemning. That's God's arena, not man's.
A Christian's reaction to what the Bible considers sin should be the same reaction as Christ's. His message was one of forgiveness and reconciliation with God. He spared his harshest criticisms and condemnations for the religious leaders of his day, who were too busy condemning other people to see their own spiritual needs.
As a Christian who believes in the fundamentals of scripture, and as a Baptist, I can tell you this guy does not reflect the thinking of Baptists in any way shape or form. 1 Jn. 4:8 says 'He who does not love does not know God, because God is love.'I sense no love for man in Mr. Phelps.
As to secular America's reaction to Christianity, the secular world has always been hostile to the true teachings of scripture. The Bible calls evil what it is, and the vast majority react to that with hostility --- and understandably so. This should in no way change the message. Christ never wavered in his message of truth, and what was the world's ultimate reaction to that? (I seem to remember something about a cross) The list of people who have been persecuted, imprisoned, mutilated, burned, etc. for their unwavering faith is too long to write.
The person who wishes to live a Biblical Christian life should expect hostility from some, but in no way should he seek confrontation in order to bring it out. Speaking the truth in love will do that just fine.
Does this guy hurt the cause of Christ? Of course he does. But, there are nutjobs in every religion. Paul said it as "there are some who trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ".
#8
Yes, but then again aren't such bans on demonstrations at abortion clinics long on the books and upheld?
The whole friggin 'justice system' is a cluster of individual princes deciding what they feel like today with inconsistancy between various federal districts and regions. It certainly brings credibility to the system doesn't it.
#9
#8 Yes, but then again aren't such bans on demonstrations at abortion clinics long on the books and upheld?
Indeed! Protesting a life snuffed prior to birth is totally unacceptable. Protesting a life sacrificed for the cause of freedom.... march ON PROTESTORS! It is your "choice" your right under the lst Amendment... say the law givers and judges.
#11
Well, not to be picky, but Fred Phelps doesn't represent Fundamental Christianity any more than OJ represents the NFL Hall of Fame.
I appreciate your well-thought-out response, mcsegeek1, and have little, if any, argument with what you say.
Nonetheless, I'm sure that we can still agree how OJ probably inspired a whole new generation of racist bigots. In a similar fashion to Islam, Christianity has allowed itself to be hijacked by the likes of Swaggert, Falwell, Bakker, Robertson and so many other high-profile hucksters. I'd be just as happy to see large street demonstrations by Christians against how their faith has been perverted by these money grubbing televangelists. Thank goodness the peaceful nature of Christianity makes this nowhere near the critical issue it is for Islam.
#12
Thanks Zen. The voices against the two-bit pseudo-christian con artists are out there, believe me. They just get drowned out by the MSM's glee over the sins of others, and the popular culture's built-in hostility toward anything dealing with Christ.
Also, I don't think I'd characterize these hucksters efforts as a 'hijacking', because that would imply they have control of Christianity's direction, which they do not. For every Swaggart, Hinn, Bakker and Robertson, there are thousands of good, decent, humble and upright men who do the real work of their faith, and have far more influence on real Christianity that these wolves in sheeps clothing ever did. They are the lunatic fringe, just like Phelps. Every family has that one relative who's a complete ass. Christianity perhaps has more than it's share.
#13
Yes, but then again aren't such bans on demonstrations at abortion clinics long on the books and upheld?
There are no "bans", this isn't the Nazi nation you make it out to be. There is a "bubble" law preventing protestors from approaching nearer than between eight and one hundred feet, depending upon circumstances. Ill give you an example.
Every Saturday, there are protesters outside of the Planned Parenthood clinic in my neighborhood. They are there because Saturdays are when the abortions are performed, so that the many women who must work for a living can have the operation safely performed and return to their job on Monday.
Please try to remember that around TEN PERCENT of Planned Parenthood's budget goes towards providing abortions. The other NINETY PERCENT goes towards providing low-cost women's reproductive health services to those who can least afford them. We're talking about breast examinations, Pap smears, treatment of venereal disease and a host of other important diagnoses that can save a woman's life while helping to prevent sometimes fatal conditions and often painful and unnecessary death.
Do these protestors care? Quite simply, no.
THEY SIT OUTSIDE OF THE CLINIC WITH HUGE 4'x4' FULL COLOR PHOTOGRAPHIC PLACCARDS SHOWING PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTIONS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TINY TWISTED BLOODY BODIES AND CAVED IN HEADS OF NEAR-TERM FETUSES.
This is the absolute most repugnant of all types of abortions and there are few, if ANY, doctors who will perform one if the mother's life is not mortally endangered by the prospective birth.
Does this prevent these demonstrators from displaying their damned filth every Saturday when people are walking their children to the library? Does it stop these protestors from yelling, "DON'T KILL ME MOMMY!" to women entering the clinic? It does not, so don't piss and moan to me about the bubble law.
Big clue, there isn't a single woman who wakes up in the morning and says to herself, "I think I'll go out and get pregnant so I can HAVE AN ABORTION!" It is usually an agonizing choice and one fraught with psychological complications a lot of people wouldn't like to live with at all. It often is the one sole alternative to becoming a single mother and destroying any possibility of a woman's financial independence or sustained career.
Do I like abortion? No. I think it is the single worst form of contraception there is short of a wire coat hanger. Should it be outlawed? Not until women have completely equal socioeconomic status in our culture. Something that the glass ceiling puts a total lie to. Women are still consistently underpaid and overlooked for career promotion in today's society.
When women have that equal socioeconomic status, then watch out. There will have to be some major revisions regarding a sorely overlooked portion of civil law dealing with paternal rights. Eventually, a man should also have some sort of say in whether his offspring is aborted. The one technological advance that should put an end to all of this debate is the invention of an artificial womb. If government thinks that they can be so intrusive into a persons individual life as to insist that a fetus be brought to full term, then they had best provide the means to do so if a woman is not of sufficient physical, financial or mental health to carry that pregnancy to full term. Until these issues have been resolved, we need government to stay the hell out of our lives.
When I see those clinic demonstrators volunteering down at the orphanage or helping over at the homeless family shelter (where I have volunteered as a chef), theyll have a lot more credibility in my eyes. Even if they demonstrated the conviction to picket the clinic a full six days each week during the hours when it is open, that would carry more weight with me. But showing up for a few hours on one day a week to specifically torture the women who often have little, if any, choice about what theyre having to do cuts ZERO ice with me.
As to the actual topic of this thread, Ill go with Darth Vader.
I'm all for this.
It makes the chance of something truely unplesant happening to these assholes all that much more likely!
A little parking lot therapy will go a long way with cowardly assholes like Phelps gang of Bible thumping thugs.
#14
Good point, Zenster. And in that logic, I'm sure you will soon be taking to the streets to condemn the men in this world who abuse women, sexually harrass them and exploit them. IIRC something like on rape happens every sixty seconds or something like that. Being a man - clearly you want to organize something to disassociate yourself from that - right?
#16
I still think Fred Phelps and his crew should have some non-fatal accidents - such as having their kneecaps moved to their hips by white ash axehandles. "I know nothing, nothing!"
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
09/27/2006 17:42 Comments ||
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#17
For every Swaggart, Hinn, Bakker and Robertson, there are thousands of good, decent, humble and upright men who do the real work of their faith, and have far more influence on real Christianity that these wolves in sheeps clothing ever did.
mcsegeek1, I sincerely hope and actually do believe that you are right. Please know that I, personally, do not view Falwell et al as true representatives of Christianity. Sadly, much of America's television-watching population is less able to clearly discern the distinctions you rightfully make. While the media largely is to blame, I wish that more Christians would vociferously denouce these ungenerous televangelist maggots.
Legend has it that Billy Graham gathered together Falwell, Swaggert, Bakker and other major televangelists in a meeting where he addressed them about ethical fundraising on television. Graham's words reportedly were met with hysterical laughter.
#18
But showing up for a few hours on one day a week to specifically torture the women who often have little, if any, choice about what theyre having to do cuts ZERO ice with me.
Sorry, but they had more than a little choice. They could have remained celebate, or determined only to have sexual relations with men that were worthy of becoming fathers. Once they ignored those available choices, there's still reason aplenty not to throw away an unborn.
#22
Personally, getting back to the point at hand, I think a 300' zone is reasonable. Good grief, how many cemetaries are out there that are smaller than 300'? Not many, I'd guess (except in the wilds of the west and maybe the south). My point being, these so-called Christian freaks (Phelps et al) could STILL BE INSIDE THE CEMETARY and not be closer than 300'. And, if there's a crew of them, 300' isn't probably enough distance to drown out their "hate speech." Personally, I somewhat agree with Phelps' theory (on God's hand of protection on this nation), but you will NEVER find me spewing crap like he does, and I consider myself a Fundamentalist Baptist too.
What he doesn't get (Phelps) is the irony of "protesting" men and women who die to protect this nation (many whom are Christians themselves, and "doing God's work" in defending this nation) and most of whom probably agree with his stance on homosexuality. If he truly thinks the gays are the reason we got struck on 9/11, shouldn't he protest those pushing the gay agenda? Protesting the soldiers who die so that he can spew his hate is absolutely bass-ackwards. Much like the liberal far-left (the gay-agenda pushers, the extreme secular humanists, etc.), he doesn't get that if he TRULY got his way, and Islam came to power here, he/they'd be the first to be "silenced," if you get my drift.
Posted by: BA ||
09/27/2006 21:31 Comments ||
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#23
Sorry, but they had more than a little choice. They could have remained celebate, or determined only to have sexual relations with men that were worthy of becoming fathers.
Crusader, in an ideal world, such would be the case. Currently, there is a lot of resistance to decent sex education in our schools. Due to that, few teenagers have the least idea about how to maintain a responsible relationship. Couple that with the low-emphasis that so much of modern movie and television media places upon moral behavior and it's a wonder that we've been able to reduce teen pregnancy rates at all.
From what I've been able to gather, very few modern parents take the time to sit their children down and explain the workings of rational philosophy and how it applies to daily life. This, pretty much, cripples any sort of prudent decision-making capacity right there. Expecting young kids to evaluate their dates in terms of marriageable prospects requires a depth of consideration that simply isn't being taught nearly often enough at home or in the schools.
Furthermore, I've yet to see many parents who convey their love for children in straight-forward and well-thought-out terms. Too often it is merely vague touchy-feely crap or just going through the motions and most kids can sniff out that sort of perfunctory bullshit in an instant. Confronted with a lack of genuine love at home they will find it somewhere. Often in the arms of a boyfriend or girlfriend.
When America begins to provide its children with honest love and affection, coupled with truly useful education that includes critical analysis and some concept of morals and ethics, we'll see some changes. So long as kids continue to be fed garbage like; "You can't know anything for sure", "Everything is just shades of gray" and "Truth is relative" along with all that other moral relevatism bullshit, don't expect too much to change.
That same sort of empty-headed crap will be carried forward into relationships and manifest as high divorce rates, broken homes, unwanted pregnancies, abortion and unwanted children. Just ask yourself where all of the young gang members come from.
#24
he's an attention whore. He stands for nothing. He's plain crazy too. I'm tired of every crazy, wacked-out, nut-job, psychotic getting the headline news. In fact I'm getting really sick of it. The more completely f*&^ed up you are the more attention you get. I'm not a prude. I have no problem with people having fun, making some mistakes and living life. But I'm getting really, really, really, sick of the 24/7, 365 days a year, year after year, dysfunction that is being shoved down our throats by the media culture. I'm not sure exactly when it changed from a celebration of dysfuntion into a worship of it.
It's like watching someone puke. It's fascinating and you feel compelled to watch, but not something you want to have to endure day after day.
#25
If he truly thinks the gays are the reason we got struck on 9/11, shouldn't he protest those pushing the gay agenda?
Because a lot of gays wouldn't think twice about stomping the living shit out of these bilious microencephalitic fuckwads. Cowards like these always go after the soft targets, you know, like grieving widows and families.
Much like the liberal far-left (the gay-agenda pushers, the extreme secular humanists, etc.), he doesn't get that if he TRULY got his way, and Islam came to power here, he/they'd be the first to be "silenced," if you get my drift.
Yup. I've had to convince multi-cultural type gay people that Islam will kill them first. I liken this to the Neo-Nazi skinheads who adore Hitler, not even realizing that real Nazis would shove inbred morons like them into the cattle cars ahead of the Jews.
#27
I'm not sure exactly when it changed from a celebration of dysfuntion into a worship of it.
I'll give you a hint. Look at when television media was reoriented over to lowest common denominator programming. Shows like "All in the Family" that glorified bigotry. Soap operas with their titillating and completely amoral plot lines. Thinly disguised softcore pornography like "Baywatch", once rated as the world's most popular television show. "Squeal of Fortune" with its exalted air-head bimbo. "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" with its glorification of conspicuous consumption and wretched excess. Movies like "Forrest Gump" that elevate stupidity into the realm of worthiness. All of the slasher movies that promote victimization of women. The current crop of "reality shows" that have nothing to do with reality. "Idol" shows that rely on a thin veneer of talent to drive a hugely profitable pay-per-call telephone voting system.
Need I go on? The day television network broadcasters stopped selling their content to us, the viewers, and began marketing us viewers to their advertisers was the day that the dumbing down of America officially began.
#29
Methinks Frank is hitting at your abortion rant in #13. Let's keep the enemies in mind. We have both internal and external enemies. Phelps and his crew are just a mere "sideswipe" at getting attention off of the real world.
Like I said before, I think Phelps is a complete nut job (and I consider myself a Fundamentalist/Baptist). However much I may agree with his theory on God taking His hand of protection off of our nation (and, no, I don't think it's just the gay-agenda pushers, but goes further back to the hippies/free-love era and abortion, honestly), you'll never find probably almost ANY OTHER baptist boycotting with Phelps, that's for sure. In fact, my Baptist church honors our troops (heck, we have a HUGE banner on each side of our worship center w/ a troop pictured and sayings like, "Never forget to thank God for our troops and our Freedom," etc.) almost every week. There's a young Marine who always attended church in his uniform (until he shipped out recently) and another buddy of mine at church (Reserves) just shipped out this week to Iraq. I don't think your "typical" Baptist would protest like Phelps does, and, in face, we'd protest the gay-agenda pushers, if truth be told.
Posted by: BA ||
09/27/2006 23:16 Comments ||
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#30
whoops, ....in fact...
Now, carry on.
Posted by: BA ||
09/27/2006 23:17 Comments ||
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#31
Re:13, Zenster, I agree with your line of reaoning 100%. My girlfriend, now my wife of >33yrs, and I got careless and had to make probably the most difficult choice of our lives; we were not in any sort of position to support ourselves, much less a baby and a safe abortion was the only way out. She had to travel (alone) to a big city after making all the arrangements via telephone. We have told no one of this, but given the chance for a do-over, I beliee we would make the same choice. So those protesters at the clinics and those at military funerals deserve nothing less than our complete contempt (and a kick in the ass).
#32
Thank you, USN,Ret. Please accept my condolences on your long ago loss. I'll just say how glad I am that your relationship had the strength to prevail over such sadness. I'll also take a moment to thank you for serving our great country. America's debt to its fighting men and women is endless.
I can still remember going to Planned Parenthood so that my highschool girlfriend and I could get the counseling for her to obtain oral contraceptives. Getting her pregnant would have destroyed both of our lives, instead, even though we are no longer together, our relationship was one of love and caring.
However much I may agree with his theory on God taking His hand of protection off of our nation
I beg to differ, BA. Even as a scientific agnostic, if there is one nation that shall never be cast from beneath the shelter of God's wing, it is America. Never has another country done so much for so many with so little thanks to show for it save our own enduring freedom and that of millions upon millions of people world wide. Look at all of the nations we have vanquished with out taking more than a scrap or two of land in conquest.
What you say borders far too closely to "America deserved 9-11" for my own tastes. I can only hope you might reconsider such a direly misplaced notion.
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Afghanistan's president is urging Pakistan to close extremist schools and seeking support from US President George W Bush in a campaign against "places that teach terror".
KISMAYO, Somalia - Somali Islamists on Tuesday put down a small womens protest in this key southern port and imposed a curfew after violent demonstrations by residents against their new Muslim leaders.
(Xinhua) -- The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) rejected further talks on its nuclear program because of U.S. breakdown, Choe Su Hon, Deputy Foreign Minister of the DPRK, said Tuesday. "It is quite preposterous that the DPRK, under the groundless U.S. sanctions, takes part in the talks of discussing its own nuclear abandonment," Choe said in his speech to the general debate of the 61st session of the UN General Assembly. "This is the matter of principle intolerable of even the slightest concession," he stressed. 
LOS ANGELES (AP) - An Army medic who fled rather than serve a second tour in Iraq because he believes war is immoral turned himself in Tuesday to face a possible court-martial.
WASHINGTON (AP) - A plan to tighten U.S. borders by requiring passports or tamper-resistant identification cards from everyone entering the country by land from Mexico and Canada has been delayed. House and Senate lawmakers agreed to push back the program by 17 months, saying they want to make sure new ID cards being developed by the Bush administration will better secure borders against terrorists without slowing legitimate travelers from Canada and Mexico. The new ID's will be required for Americans and all others entering the U.S.
Accusing Pakistan of being a nursery of global terrorism, India has asked Pakistan once again to stop all cross-border terrorism as promised and dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism still intact on its soil. While the fragile political fabric of states in Indias neighbourhood is a source of continuing anxiety to New Delhi, Pakistan remains a nursery of global terrorism, said visiting Indian Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee in a talk at Harvard University in Boston on Monday. Post 9/11, Pakistan has reportedly helped the US to fight terrorism along its western border with Afghanistan. But it has done precious little to dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism on its eastern border with India, he said in his talk on Indias Strategic Perspective. 
Senator Khurshid Ahmed of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal has complained to the Senate Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges that security agencies did not let him meet nuclear scientist Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan in Aga Khan Hospital, Karachi. 
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President General Pervez Musharraf on Monday night said he was confident that he would win elections "hands down" because he was popular in Pakistan. Replying to a question during an interview with Fox TV whether US President George Bush was pressuring him to restore full democracy in Pakistan, Musharraf said that while Bush encouraged him to do so, he was under no pressure at all. At the same time, he said he has brought about democracy in Pakistan from the grassroots to the top tier the parliament.
President General Pervez Musharraf on Tuesday rejected NATO security assessments that Talibans headquarters was in Quetta. Anyone who says this is wrong. This is the most ridiculous statement, he said, adding that Pakistan did not have financial resources to support the Taliban who, he said, were being financed by poppy growers. 
Chittagong (Bangladesh) Anchorage Tally: Thirty three incidents have been reported since January 28. Pirates are targeting ships preparing to anchor. 
Iraqi President Jalal Talabani said that the US military presence in Iraq keeps neighbors from invading his country. "The American presence has always prevented any kind of foreign invasion to Iraq," Talabani said.
AMMAN - Jordans parliament has approved a law bringing Muslim preachers under government control despite objections from Islamist MPs, a parliamentary source said Tuesday.
GENEVA - Israel has turned the Gaza Strip into a prison for Palestinians where life is intolerable, appalling, tragic and the Jewish state appears to have thrown away the key, a UN human rights envoy said on Tuesday.
(Xinhua) -- Palestinian Foreign Minister Mahmoudal-Zahar said on Tuesday that the Hamas-led government would not recognize Israel, nor would meet international demands. "The Palestinian government's position is steady and didn't change," Zahar, who is from Hamas, said in a news conference held in Gaza after his meeting with Brazilian ambassador in Jerusalem. "It won't recognize Israel, won't meet the international quartet's demands, won't respect signed deals and will continue resistance," he clarified. 
Egypt has demanded that Hamas immediately release a captured Israeli soldier to avoid a worsening crisis in the violence-battered Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials and Arab diplomats said Tuesday. The Egyptian demand came in a "strongly worded letter" from Egypt's powerful intelligence chief Omar Suleiman to the Syrian-based Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, they said. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the letter. The letter also demanded Hamas cooperate fully with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in forming a national unity government, a step that has been stalled by the militant group's refusal to form an administration that recognizes Israel.
I think we're going to have to start looking at further sanctions on Syria if it is to continue on the path it's currently on, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said on Tuesday. Rice, whose interview with The Wall Street Journal appeared on the State Department web site, said, "I think as Syria continues to show its stripes and isolate itself from its Arab friends, that may be somewhat easier to do. I think we're going to have to start looking at further sanctions on Syria
we're going to have to look at tougher measures if Syria continues to be on the path that it's on." 
LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) - Kentucky's law forbidding protests within 300 feet of military funerals and memorial services was suspended temporarily Tuesday after a federal judge ruled it was too broad.
