Tariq A. Al-Maeena, close_encounters@gawab.com
There is a line that the media dare not cross when it comes to generalizing on any race, religious sect or the ethnicity of a people. But the US media observes no such editorial limitations when it comes to Muslims.
He's talking about the U.S. media?
In the latest affront to Muslims the world over, MSNBC leads off a news column with âMuslim link to Madrid blasts?â â meaning Thursdayâs bombings in the Spanish capital. The choice of words and the leading inference are nothing short of offensive.
If you're among the easily-offended, of course...
It is an affront to one of the largest religions in the world and to the people who follow that faith. It cleverly misleads the uninformed into believing that the 1.2 billion Muslims in this world have nothing better to do than blow up innocent people everywhere. This is a flagrant example of racism in a so-called âdemocratic and free pressâ, intent on twisting the truth and falsely representing their so-called facts.
Islam isn't a race. It's a religion. You can be a member of any race and still be a Muslim. Of course, you have to be an Arab to be a member of the master race, but we won't go into that...
Well, I am a Muslim and I am proud of it.
Whatever for?
I do not condone terrorism anywhere, be it state-sponsored or by individuals and groups.
But first on the agenda, of course, has to be dealing with "state-sponsored" terrorism, like Israel indulges in, and India and the U.S. and Russia, and all those other non-Muslim countries. Then we can all worry about the itty-bitty pittances of terrorism carried out by individuals and groups. Right?
My religion forbids me such heinous crimes, and there is no reward except hell and damnation for all those who participate in such crimes.
Yet there seems to be a world-wide movement devoted to perpetrating just such crimes, that uses Islam as its justification...
But I am also extremely offended by the lack of ethics displayed today in US journalism. Can MSNBC or any US media organization print that African-Americans were behind the DC sniping, or Jews had a link in the New York serial murders or insider trading violations? Or that Christians, for that matter, were linked to the Oklahoma bombings? They would be shut down before the ink had a chance to dry.
Actually, they wouldn't if the religion or the color had been the driver, the justification, behind the crimes.
But they dare without boundaries when it comes to Muslims. They must be killed stopped. For the 1.2 billion Muslims the world over, a lawsuit must be prepared and slapped on MSNBC, to the tune of $1.2 billion, one dollar for every Muslim. The case must be for defamation and derogatory references to the good name of Muslims everywhere. I call on Muslims everywhere to take charge and prepare a landmark case against MSNBC, including any websites that blatantly refer to a religious group with no regard to their feelings or beliefs.
Hurt your feelings, did it? Can't have that. Tusk tusk.
Responsible journalism must be licensed protected. The manipulations we witnessed in the past few years by the US media have indeed sunk to very low standards and must be fought and contained. It is time to do it through their pocketbooks. Muslims will not be held hostage or put on the defensive for the actions of a few deviants that may attempt to hijack Islam, for there is nothing Islamic about such dastardly acts. Islam is a peaceful religion, a submission to Godâs will. We will not be insulted nor submit to a manipulative media anywhere.
Apparently it's God's will that the turban and automatic weapons set blows up someplace with a large crowd of people every six months or so. There's no human intervention. It's just something that happens, so Muslims obviously can't be held responsible for the actions of a few... thousand.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/12/2004 9:20:30 PM ||
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#1
If Muslims want the US and maybe just the ROW to start really hating Muslims then this lawsuit will just confirm the worst fears of a full Muslim attack on all that the US and many other people stand for and believe in.
#2
Some of this man's co-religionists (probably), using his religion as justification, and guided by his religion's sacred texts,slaughter hundreds of innocents. He then seeths not at the terrorists for murdering and sullying his faith, but rather at the US press -- simply because it indicated the truth that he doesn't have the guts to face. What a perfect example of everything that is wrong with "moderate Islam."
#3
I know this "Arab Democracy Initiative" Bush has started us on has a noble purpose and is being undertaken with high hopes for a peaceful future, but reading crap like this gives me grave doubts that it will work. I really, really wonder if there is any hope of civilizing these savages.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
03/12/2004 22:41 Comments ||
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#4
Closet neo-con: So true. Loved your post. The moderate Muslims never really rail against their "brethren" they way they do against other perceived threats. Plus the typical hysteria is really evident in this piece--MSNBC is involved in a conspiracy against him! My question is: How many of the 1.2 billion other Muslims he refers to hold his opinions, versus how many support the terrorists and celebrate with each new attack? At least we can agree that we are all "offended by the lack of ethics displayed today in US journalism."
#5
Tariq, I must have missed your indignation at the terrorists on 9/11 and now in Spain. If you dont want people to associate the deliberate targetting and murder of innocent civilian with Islam then perhaps you should condem the terrorists and put a stop to their highjacking Islam to their own twisted version of hate instead of whining about a single newspaper article.....
this seems about right ...
Saudi Arabia has launched an undeclared war on George W. Bush. This simple fact must be understood by policy and strategy elites, the press, and the general electorate. Otherwise, the Saudis may well succeed in their tacit campaign to sabotage the long term success of Americaâs war on terror, by engineering the electoral defeat of George W. Bush in November. President Bush has provoked this response by proclaiming his intention to encourage democracy and liberalism in the Middle East, liberate the Arab masses from despotic rule, bring peace and prosperity to the region, and halt the spread of militant Islamic terror groups. horrible!
Unlike past Presidents who, in varying degrees, paid lip service to these ideals, President Bush has acted decisively on them. His politically perilous actions, such as his invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, his conditioning support for a Palestinian state on the cessation of terror, corruption, and dictatorship, and his active promotion and support for liberal groups in the Arab world, have aroused Saudi fears and provoked a quiet counterattack. George W. Bush seriously disrupted the previous cozy relationship that Saudi Arabia historically enjoyed with the Bush family -- and with Washington power brokers, in general. The Saudis feel that their familyâs absolute rule over the kingdom may be endangered, and that their efforts to spread their virulent brand of Islam, Wahabbism, may be curtailed by the current Administration. The Saudi royals may well feel abandoned, and in their disillusionment have resolved to prevent a second term for George W. Bush.
The Saudis traditionally had a symbiotic relationship with the Bush family and with George H.W. Bushâs coterie among the policy elites of the Republican Party. The largesse of the Saudi royal family is legendary. The Saudi Ambassador to the United States, Prince Bander bin Sultan, has boasted of his success in cultivating powerful Americans:
If the reputation then builds that the Saudis take care of friends when they leave office, you would be surprised how much better friends you have who are just coming into office.
The list of ex-office holders who propagate pro-Saudi spin is a long and disgraceful one. Hume Horan is an ex-Ambassador to Saudi Arabia who is a noble exception to the rule. He says this of his former colleagues who are now on the Saudi dole:
There have been some people who really do go on the Saudi payroll and work as advisors and consultants. Prince Bandar is very good about massaging and promoting relationships like that.
This phenomenon becomes self-evident in charting the history of Bush I and his White House staffers. Former President Bush I traveled the lecture circuit in Arab lands, earning upwards of $100,000 an appearance. Sentiment-tinged gifts to his Presidential Library and $500,000 to fund a scholarship in his name at Phillips Academy Andover (son George Wâs preparatory school, not coincidentally) are certainly important, but pale in comparison to his profits from participating in the Carlyle Group. The Carlyle Group is a supremely successful merchant bank, which also has James Baker (Bush I consiglieri) and Brent Scowcroft (Bush I National Security Adviser) as partners. This particular investment group has enjoyed access to investment funds from the Saudi royal family. Undoubtedly, the triumvirate of former officials, none of them previously renowned for investment prowess, has handsomely prospered from the arrangement.
One-sided relationships are fleeting and rare in the political world, and one is entitled to ask what the Saudis have received in return for their munificent gestures. Publicly, James Baker and Brent Scowcroft have written editorials critical of the approach Bush II has taken towards the Middle East (particularly his support for Israel and regime change in the dictatorships that rule the Arab world). The New York Times reported in 2001 that Bush I had phoned the Saudis in Bush IIsâs presence, and assured them that his son would do the âright thingâ with regard to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Presumably, this meant pressuring the Israelis.
This sort of arrangement, a comforting one for the Saudis, whose sybaritic lifestyles promoted a level of comfort unknown to all but a few human beings in the history of mankind, began to end as the two Boeing 767s approached the World Trade Center on that fateful morning over two years ago. The terror attacks convinced George W. Bush that Americaâs approach to the Middle East needed to be drastically changed, to ensure Americaâs safety. His campaign to oust the Taliban from theocratic rule in Afghanistan and his defeat of Saddam Hussein sent a message to the Saudis that âbusiness as usualâ was a thing of the past. In calling for liberalism throughout the Arab world and for the acceptance of other religions, Bush challenged the support structure of the Saudi royal family, whose legitimacy is predicated on their role as defender of Islamâs holy sites and propagator of the faith. Much more importantly, in severing the ties that once bound, Bush II has declared that the ties of filial duty, which both animate and constrain the dynamics of the Saudi royal family, do not matter so much in his family. Not anymore, at least, no matter what the former appearances. In doing so, George Bush has become an apostate to the Saudis. It is not merely a matter of interests, but rather an issue of deep principle, fundamentally linked to their own way of life, and to their survival.
From the vantage point of the Saudis, Bush II is not just unreliable, but also a danger. He is a self-identified born-again Christian, and is closely allied with the religious wing of the Republican Party. In a theocratic nation which forbids the practice of Christianity, a leader linked to rival religion is anathema. In their eyes (as well as those of some of President Bushâs most ardent opponents) he may seem to be something of a theocrat himself, but from a longstanding historical rival religion. When the Presidentâs Christian moorings are combined with the exaggerated role that Jewish neo-cons supposedly have in the White House (once again the fevered imaginations of the Saudis bear some resemblance to those of the Presidentâs most extreme domestic antagonists you noticed that too, huh?),
trouble of the most fundamental sort looms for their regime. All along, the fanatic Wahabbi wing of the clergy has preached that a holy war exists with the West, and that accommodation with the infidels can only be a tactical pause in the eventual all-out war. From their perspective, it is easy to understand why George W. Bush -- the Christian âpuppet of the Jews,â and thus the embodiment of Wahabbi nightmares -- needs to be removed from office.
How have the Saudis acted to destroy George Bushâs political career? By using the âoil weaponâ to torpedo the American economy over the next eight months, and thereby weaken electoral support for George W. Bushâs candidacy in November. The Saudis have traditionally been a swing producer within OPEC, acting to ensure oil prices remain âjust so -- not too high, not too lowâ by increasing or decreasing their marginal production. Oil prices which are too high may encourage conservation and the development of alternative energy supplies. Prices which are too high also weaken the Western economies where Saudi Arabiaâs investments must be parked. However, this historical concern seems to have been trumped by Saudi short term desires to inflict as much pain on the American economy as it can, by raising oil prices in the run-up to November. By restricting OPEC output since the end of hostilities in Iraq, the Saudis have forced oil prices up over the past several months. The American economic recovery is being slowly, almost imperceptibly, throttled. From a low of $23.61 per barrel in May, 2003, average crude oil prices have risen rather steadily, to $31.03 last month, up nearly one-third in eight months. If this rate of increase continues over the next eight months, the economic consequences for America will be grim.
Jobs are not being created at the expected rate, and increasing voter dissatisfaction with the President is shown in public opinion polling, with jobs and the economy heading the list of concerns. Additionally, the Saudis may have been reducing their holdings of petrodollars and converting them into non-dollar denominated assets. This has hurt the value of the dollar. Money flows are difficult to follow, and currency manipulation may have unintended consequences, but a proxy for the Saudi desire to hurt America may be seen in the increasing number of oil field contracts going to non-US companies.
The other factor which may hurt Bushâs chances for reelection is the situation in Iraq. Terrorists have been streaming in from Saudi Arabia, to wreak havoc and fund terror groups, despite protestations to the contrary by Saudi spinmeisters. Although attacks have been trending downward, an increase over the next several months would trigger renewed cries of âquagmire!â
On the domestic front, Saudi-funded think tanks such as the Meridian International Center and the Middle East Institute have been a fount of op-ed writers and experts on cable news channels, who criticize President Bush. The Middle East Institute (headed by ex-Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Edward Walker) is the home of one of President Bushâs fiercest critics, Joseph Wilson. Mr. Wilson was at the center of a scandal that plagued the White House when Wilson charged that the White House had leaked to columnist Robert Novak the information that Wilsonâs wife was a CIA agent, thereby putatively endangering her. Wilson has proudly declared that his goal in life is to destroy George Bushâs Presidency. It is telling that this man, who has no campaign experience, was recently hired by the Kerry campaign. Given that Wilson is also a fierce critic of Israel, the Saudis seem to have spent their money wisely.
The Saudis require stealth for their plan to succeed. They cannot be seen to be suddenly, openly, and catastrophically retaliating against President Bush, as OPEC did with its 1973 oil boycott in the wake of Israeli victory in war. The American public is in no mood to be pushed around by feudal Arab regimes. Instead, they have opted to quietly tighten the noose on the American economy, hoping to escape public blame. The Bush Administration, which still needs to deal with the Saudis, and many other repressive Arab regimes on the receiving end of Saudi largesse, undoubtedly perceives what is going on, but is constrained by the norms of diplomacy from openly acknowledging the reality of the situation. Voices urging accommodation with the Saudis are still heard within the State Department and elsewhere in the foreign policy apparatus.
That's what I've been saying. They're doing good cop-bad cop between Powell and Rumsfeld. And Powell, for all his smoothness, has been playing hardball. The past three years have probably been the most brilliant in American diplomatic history...
Neither the Bush Administration nor the Saudis can afford to have explicit and open conflict disrupt important ongoing common interests. Third parties also depend on the smooth flow of oil to markets. Nobody wants a cessation of Saudi oil exports or any other extreme measures, which could cripple America economically, and disrupt our military readiness, not to mention the disastrous consequences for poorer countries. Nevertheless, it appears to be the case that the Saudis are engaged in a silent slow motion war with George W. Bushâs Administration, aimed at limiting his Presidency to a single term. If they continue with this plan, Republicans can take nothing for granted in November.
Just as Bush is engaged in a silent, slow-motion war against the princes...
Posted by: American with a long commute, watching gas prices and mad at OPEC ||
03/12/2004 9:03:28 AM ||
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#1
I think W's old man should call in some markers with the Saudis to get them to increase production to moderate the price of oil, especially if Chavez continues down his current path of destruction. The Bushes have a lot invested in their Saudi ties, so it's time for those investments to start paying off for the US.
Posted by: Tibor ||
03/12/2004 10:29 Comments ||
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#2
This is an incredibly well-written article - my sincere Thx for posting. I hope every RBer sends the link to everyone they know. I just did that with this preface:
The upcoming US general election will be crucial. You've heard this before - so often that it has probably lost its meaning. The choice between Kerry and Bush is stark - and the winning Presidential candidate will automatically become an historical figure. Remarkably, we have seen this before: when Reagan's administration swamped the Soviets with our superior technical capabilities and raw economic power causing the collapse of our strongest communist adversary.
We are at war, again - this time with insanity incarnate. I also believe, in this election, we have a choice of whether to deal with our adversaries (seen and unseen) from a position of strength and resolve or from one of dilute weakness and pathetic pandering to foreign interests - who seek no less than to restrain us or destroy us. This motherfucker matters, to put it simply.
No matter what your current position may be, think it through for yourself and please vote. November is a pivot point of extreme importance. Let it be decided by Americans with brains, not political whores or foreign interests.
#3
I think it's time to teach foreign powers not to meddle in US elections. The House of Saud needs to cease to exist. The funding of terrorists needs to stop. The teaching of Wahabbi islam needs to be terminated. Nuke the entire damned country into glowing radioactive glass, and shoot any we miss. Do it NOW, not after the elections. Do it with the full force of the might of the United States. The entire world will be better off.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/12/2004 11:21 Comments ||
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#4
What makes no sense about this is that the default Democratic position remains to defer to Jerusalem's position and I really don't see that changing.
If Riyadh really believes that making life difficult for Dubya will make their lives easier they have another thing coming; particularly since this election is still Dubya's to lose.
Of course, being in denial is the default Saudi position.
#5
Hiryu - "What makes no sense about this is that the default Democratic position remains to defer to Jerusalem's position and I really don't see that changing."
Can you explain what you mean by this statement? I'm not sniping. It just isn't clear to me what you're saying - and I really want to know - honest!
#6
It's clear the Saudi House of Saud is feeling the heat imposed on it by the military campaign in the Middle East..Because of the US-Shia alliance, almost the completly Gulf is now Shia dominated territory, and that poses a serious security problem for the Saud Dynasty, who risks being squashed between the US and the Wahhabist. I reckon the US has nothing to gain from a implosion of the system in that country..But it's now in a position in which it can pressure the Saudi's into full cooperation in the war on terror, which means in the first place, total transparancy of it's intelligence information...
This whole oil thing is nothing more then a futile resistance effort by the Saudi's, but i doubt it will manage to deflect US pressure..
Posted by: Dan ||
03/12/2004 14:05 Comments ||
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#8
lyot - Are you trying to tell us something? There's no consistent point in your blather, just fuzzy-minded mumbling with some imaginary sinister subplots and equally imaginary air of being informed. You don't know jack.
"US-Shia alliance"
WTF? Are you referring to the CPA's dealing with the Shi'a majority in Iraq? This notion is patently stupid on its face. You're a looney.
"almost the completly Gulf is now Shia dominated territory"
"Sunni Muslims make up the majority (85%) of Muslims all over the world. Significant populations of Shia Muslims can be found in Iran and Iraq, and large minority communities in Yemen, Bahrain, Syria, and Lebanon."
-About.com
Funny, that not only doesn't substantiate your assertion, but if you knew your geography, you'd realize it refutes it. The Gulf Cooperation Council includes Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates (UAE). Only one other nation is on the Gulf - Iran - and that is the ONLY Shi'a-dominated country in the lot. You still miss when you include the entire M.E. as the citation from About.com ALSO demonstrates. You really don't know much about Arab Islam, do you?
"I reckon the US has nothing to gain from a implosion of the system in that country."
Do you refer to the eventual flight to Switzerland (or wherever) of the Royals? There is no "if", there's only "when". The Royals care about one thing: sucking on the oil tit as long as possible. Implosion with or without our help is coming. Rather than allowing them to continue to fund terror and slowly strangle the economies of the entire industrailized world, I suggest we should not wait - that we should take their oil away from them. Period. I have no idea what you thought your point was, but one thing is clear: You reckon wrong.
"But it's now in a position in which it can pressure the Saudi's into full cooperation in the war on terror, which means in the first place, total transparancy of it's intelligence information..."
We did not have an overwhelming (one which over-rides restraints - we've been tempted, eg. '73 embargo) reason to do it until they lost control of a few loose Wahhabi cannons (eg. OBL) who screwed up the Royal Plans (to keep it under the radar and bleed us slowly) and made the conflict between the US and their Islamofascists both very public and very "hot" - and revealed the depth and breadth of the enmity directed toward the West in general and the US in particular. In every way except for the deaths of 3,000 people, the 9/11 attack has been a disaster for the Islamofascists and an overdue wakeup call for the US and the West. In fact, I'm more than glad they acted before Khan (or other asshole) gave them a nuke capability.
"This whole oil thing is nothing more then a futile resistance effort by the Saudi's, but i doubt it will manage to deflect US pressure."
You don't really have a point, do you? You just like to practice your English in RB. You're a moron - and your comments suck.
You are about as uninformed regards Saudi Arabia, the US, the mechanics of diplomatic relations, oil production and markets, hell - just about everything involved in this topic as a person can be - or you're just a looney who makes whatever statements form in that vaccuous space between your ears. Thank you so very very much for the opportunity to work off a little steam. That is, indeed, the one useful function of trolls. FOAD.
#10
Great article and great comments and analysis, guys! It is hard to work full time on water plant design and go to Rantburg U, too! So much protein to digest and so little time.
I remember the oil embargo of 1973 and how the Saudis started to realize that THEY could control the spigot and let the wealth of the industrialized world flow into their bank accounts. I remember reading about gas lines in Europe, except in France, where they sold their national soul to the Arabs, so they were flush with oil. The sooner all the consumer nations have alternate oil sources to make up for the loss of Saudi oil, the better, more stable, and healthier we all will be. Saudi money is poison to western civilization. In this country Wahhabist money is funding mosques which are becoming a fifth column. We are too politically correct now to seize assets and freeze the money. But that is what we need to do to survive.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/12/2004 15:24 Comments ||
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#11
Great comments, AP, dotcom and good post.
How many times have the GOP Senators put up ANWR only to have the Dim Senators vote it down because it would endanger the caribou?
Paul, maybe you know about ANWR...
Bad thought: If the killers will do what they did yesterday in Madrid before the Spanish election, what might the USA have to "look forward to" before our elections in Nov.?
#12
We are too politically correct now to seize assets and freeze the money. But that is what we need to do to survive.
Sorry, Paul, it's too late for that. It's time to take the war to the people that are instigating, driving, supporting, funding, and pushing it - the Wahabbi clerics and the House of Saud that has enabled them. They need to be totally destroyed, so the rest of the world can understand that free people will not tolerate attempts at subjugation, however stealthy it might appear to be. Kill all wahabbis today - it'll help guarantee your freedom tomorrow.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/12/2004 15:45 Comments ||
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Drudge
A BRITISH captive freed from Guantanamo Bay today tells the world of its full horror - and reveals how prostitutes were taken into the camp to degrade Muslim inmates.
Hookers? They got hookers?
Jamal al-Harith, 37, who arrived home three days ago after two years of confinement, is the first detainee to lift the lid on the US regime in Cubaâs Camp X-Ray and Camp Delta. The father-of-three, from Manchester, told how he was assaulted with fists, feet and batons after refusing a mystery injection.
That'd be the giggle juice, I guess...
...shackled for up to 15 hours at a time in hand and leg cuffs with metal links which cut into the skin... A diet of foul water and food up to 10 years out-of-date left inmates malnourished. But Jamalâs most shocking disclosure centred on the use of vice girls to torment the most religiously devout detainees. Prisoners who had never seen an "unveiled" woman before would be forced to watch as the hookers touched their own naked bodies. The men would return distraught. One said an American girl had smeared menstrual blood across his face in an act of humiliation. THIS WACK JOB IS FREAKIN PLAIN CRAZY. This is JUST OVER THE TOP!
These guys spend entirely too much time fantasizing about tampons...
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
03/12/2004 2:32:05 PM ||
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#1
The looney lefty liberal limeys will EAT IT UP. The Mirror knows its readership.
Posted by: M. Murcek ||
03/12/2004 14:36 Comments ||
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Posted by: Mike ||
03/12/2004 14:52 Comments ||
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#5
I pointed out in the other thread, "How's it possible to get frostbite in a tropical climate"? Not even the bums homeless in Boston Common get frostbite!
Muckie and Antiwar have yet to comment, like I'd actually expect honest debate from either one...
#6
In Britian the press pays for these kind of stories. Wanna bet this guy got about GBP 50K to allow the Mirror to come up with this "personal" account? I would love to see Ted Olson go after this guy using GB libel laws.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
03/12/2004 15:09 Comments ||
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#7
Raj, I think that muck's a parody, not a real person.
#10
Mike
Wow, No fair on that one... I clicked the link to see some lighthearted "Scarface" interogation technique and saw that article. That was the most comprehensive piece I have seen written on that particular aspect of 911...largly underreported because even the sensationalized press had the common decency not to talk about it.
#12
Al-Harith is the whore, Al Mirror is the pimp, and the sniveling masses of the Brit-bigot chatterati are the Johns. It's a world-record gang-bang, or is that a lefty lovefest? Or is there a difference (certainly wasn't in the 60s)?
#13
Fortunately, the sniveling bigot mob do not have a monopoly on tabloidism. Expect a response from the Sun quite shortly.
Two years ago, they responded to Al-Mirror's original Gitmo horror stories with a half-page headline declaring "LIES!"
A Briton released after more than two years at Guantanamo Bay today told of the beatings and psychological torture he faced at the hands of the American military.
"Oooh! Ouch! Hey! Stop that! O-o-o-o-o-o-ow! My ear! Give it back!"
Jamal al-Harith, a 37-yearold website designer, claims his captors forced the most devout Muslims to watch prostitutes and described vicious attacks by US soldiers that left him and other inmates black and blue. He said inmates were not given access to clean water, being forced to drink water which was either murky and yellow or "black - the colour of Coca-Cola".
"And it was sweet-tasting... And if you spilled it and it dried it was sticky... And it had bubbles in it..."
He also claims they were fed meals that were up to 10 years past their sell-by date. So thatâs what they do with them
The Muslim convert, who is divorced and has three children, said that brutal camp guards known as the Extreme Reaction Force (ERF), who would shackle prisoners for up to 15 hours, would come into his cell in riot gear and rain blows on him with batons, fists and feet.
"Smedley! Rain some blows on that man!"
"Yessir! Shall I use fists and feet? Or my baton?"
"All of them, Smedley! Use all of them!"
Prostitutes were brought into the camp and the ERF would pick out the most committed Muslims, some of whom had never seen an unveiled woman before, and force them to sit and watch her touching her naked body. "Me, me Iâm the most committed"
Mr al-Harith claimed one had even smeared menstrual blood on a young inmate. What sort of drugs were they giving these nuts
He said: "I knew of this happening about 10 times. It always seemed to be those who were very young or very religiousâ"I would joke with the other British lads âBring them to us - weâll have them.â It made us laugh. But the Americans obviously knew we wouldnât be shocked by seeing western women, so they didnât bother. Bummer
"I mean, I tried to fake it, tryin' to look real young or real holy, but they wouldn't buy it. All I had for company was my hand. Sometimes Mahmoud, in the next cage, would back up real close to the wire, but it was... never... close... enough!"
"It was a profoundly disturbing experience for these men. They would refuse to speak about what had happened.
"Wha' hoppened, Mahmoud?"
"I don' wanna talk about it."
"It would take perhaps four weeks for them to tell a friend â and we would shout it around the whole block." Is that when they used to send in the Extreme Reaction Force (ERF)?
He added: "The whole point of Guantanamo was to get to you psychologically. The beatingsâwere not nearly as bad as the psychological torture â bruises heal after a week, but the other stuff stays with you."
"But I'm tough. Wanna see my muscle?"
Mr al-Harith, who comes from the Moss Side district of Manchester, Anyone from the Moss Side would never worry about a biffin
told the Daily Mirror he accidentally strayed into Afghanistan after going to Pakistan to study Islam.
"I'm very devout, but really lousy with directions..."
He had asked a truck driver to take him to Turkey so he could get home, but when the driver used a route through Afghanistan he was captured by the Taliban who imprisoned him and accused him of being a British spy.
"Yore name?"
"Harith. Al Harith."
After US forces took the country the Red Cross offered him the chance to go home, but he had no money and stayed in the country trying to contact the British Embassy. Then the Americans arrested him and flew him to Cuba. At Camp Delta his cell was a wire cage, exposed to the elements and to snakes and scorpions common in the area. Cue violins
Posted by: tipper ||
03/12/2004 6:00:19 AM ||
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Should thank his lucky stars he's not swinging on the gallows. Hang them all for treason. (and Piers Morgan - editor of Mirror).
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/12/2004 6:22 Comments ||
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Howard you are one twisted motherf*^%$#.If this happened in Iraq for instance you would be whinging about democracy and human rights. But apparently its ok for US to torture prisoners.
#3
Born and raised in Britain but shooting at our troops. Treason in my book. Don't know what this guy's real story is but by Darwin's law of natural selection he's one numpty for being a westerner in this warzone post 9/11. They should all be hung for treason or stupidity or both...
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/12/2004 6:48 Comments ||
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#4
told the Daily Mirror he accidentally strayed into Afghanistan
I think this says all we need to know about his credibility.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/12/2004 7:01 Comments ||
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#5
Antiwar: You moron! You got these guys saying this kind of stuff, yet every other detainee that has been released to date said Gitmo was great. That the guards were nice, the food was good, and they had actually gained weight.
Plus, as unlawful combatants in a warzone, what should have been was shot him on the spot. Instead of arresting him and putting him up at Gitmo, regardless of the conditions.
But you are soooo willing to believe the worst, that you will take these statements and ignore all the rest. Ignore all the positive comments about Gitmo, from other detainees. The idea that one or the other is lying, and it just might be your guy, is something that you are totally blind to.
Sheesh!
Posted by: Ben ||
03/12/2004 7:05 Comments ||
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#6
I think it is imperitive to follow the Geneva Convention to the letter. Next time one of these Jihadis is captured, interrogate and execute him on the spot. No uniform, no national army: not a soldier. Spies, saboteurs, and unlawful combattants are to be executed.
BTW, would any English here say "Extreme Reaction Force"? I can't imagine any American comming up with a name like that.
Prostitutes were brought into the camp
Haha. In their wildest fanatsies. He left out the part where they were 72 nine year old virgin prostitutes.
Posted by: ed ||
03/12/2004 7:20 Comments ||
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#7
"Our" guy coming out with blatant cr*p like this could hardly be better material for the pro-Guantanamo/pro-WoT camp. It'll fracture and crumble the left. Those more rationally thinking amongst them will find that they can't rely on the testimony of the menstrually-smeared, invisibly-injured yet surprisingly chippy and healthy-looking former inmates. This is worse than no evidence of mistreatment at all...
#8
I am unwilling to believe this story. I have heard other reports where inmates of Guantanamo have said they are being treated humanely and decently, eating better food than they did in their home country, have full religious dignity and are actually thankful that they are being treated so decently - compared to what they were led to believe, and how prisoners would be treated in their home country.
#9
This is the most ridiculous load of crap I've read this week. And in a week full of bs that's saying a lot. It's amazing that there are morons that will buy this jokers story (a lot of them to boot) and it's amazing that a "newspaper" would print this garbage.
#10
Ahem. The captured al'Qaeda manual says you should make a lotta noise about being tortured if you're ever arrested by the infidels. This guy's just following SOP.
He said inmates were not given access to clean water, being forced to drink water which was either murky and yellow or "black - the colour of Coca-Cola".
So they were given the choice of Mountain Dew or Coke? Or maybe it was a store brand?
Prostitutes were brought into the camp and the ERF would pick out the most committed Muslims, some of whom had never seen an unveiled woman before, and force them to sit and watch her touching her naked body.
Now this is beyond the pale! We're telling our sailors to avoid bars like this, and yet we're supposedly providing this service FREE to Gitmo inmates?!
Antiwar -- you're a tool, if not a sock puppet.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
03/12/2004 8:25 Comments ||
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#11
Read the whole original article and the other linked stories and you will find plenty of nuggets stating that this guy was deliberately hostile and non-cooperative. The "Turkey" story cracks me up -- this guy thought he was trucking from Pakistan to Turkey? That's at least an incredible journey through Iran no matter how you slice it! People with no sense of geography should stay home. He's hostile, non-cooperative, at least a bit delusional, and ignorant. I feel sorry for his neighbors.
Posted by: Tom ||
03/12/2004 8:48 Comments ||
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#12
...the men were followed off the plane, into a police station for questioning, then to their homes, where their families posted notes on the doors telling reporters to please contact their media consultants. The price of an interview was said to start at around $75,000.
#15
give em some of the $1 million bills the lady tried to pass at Walmart
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/12/2004 9:51 Comments ||
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#16
Hey if the GIs are getting Hooks to come on base I may have to rethink my retirement! Antiwar, please take your meds. This is SOOOO much left wing/anti america babble that it aint even funny. We don't torture people, even if they deserve it.
#17
basically these five fuckers are british only by thier fuckin passport - nothing else.I'm seriously unhappy about these bastards being released but am actually even more livid with piers morgan the wank stain for seemingly treating them as some kind of heros as if thier fuckin terry waite or nelson man fucking dela,. I feel i may be forced to shit into an envolope and send it to the daily mail
#19
welcom back antiwar! godd to see you again! we miss you here even if some of them dont sound like it. i even thought changing my name to antimeat in memory of you.
#20
Hookers in Guantanamo!!! Patriotic ones, too!!! Freshly flown in from Norfolk, Virginia!!!
I know somebody who was stationed in Gitmo (before 9/11). He said it's the worst place to be stationed..because there are NO WOMEN! (except military of course).
But I guess these guys had a few wet dreams. And maybe you wanna work on that giggle juice..lol
#21
Didn't have time to read the whole thing. How much weight did this guy gain?
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
03/12/2004 11:15 Comments ||
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#22
This guy is great. Half of his stories didn't happen to him or the other British captives because the captures knew they'd be immune to such punishments. Easier to avoid being tripped up on little details that way.
The sad thing is the story stinks in every way imaginable but it will be quoted left and left by those looking desperately to prove their point tha the US=Nazi Germany.
#23
This guy is great. Half of his stories didn't happen to him or the other British captives because the captures knew they'd be immune to such punishments. Easier to avoid being tripped up on little details that way.
The sad thing is the story stinks in every way imaginable but it will be quoted left and left by those looking desperately to prove their point tha the US=Nazi Germany.
#24
Anitwar - you are one twisted mother F!@#%*@.......you and your kind believe that everyone is your brother - while noble - very naive. you cannot force someone to like. what these arab asshats have done is declare war big time...the gloves are off and war is dirty..... you should just thank god that there are people who will do the dirty work so you and your kind can still express your views. you should go and join your brethern in syria -- only problem is people like are all talk and no action.
these times require drastic and decisive action....
Posted by: Dan ||
03/12/2004 12:24 Comments ||
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#25
Anitwar - you are one twisted mother F!@#%*@.......you and your kind believe that everyone is your brother - while noble - very naive. you cannot force someone to like. what these arab asshats have done is declare war big time...the gloves are off and war is dirty..... you should just thank god that there are people who will do the dirty work so you and your kind can still express your views. you should go and join your brethern in syria -- only problem is people like are all talk and no action.
these times require drastic and decisive action....
Posted by: Dan ||
03/12/2004 12:24 Comments ||
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#26
Anitwar - you are one twisted mother F!@#%*@.......you and your kind believe that everyone is your brother - while noble - very naive. you cannot force someone to like. what these arab asshats have done is declare war big time...the gloves are off and war is dirty..... you should just thank god that there are people who will do the dirty work so you and your kind can still express your views. you should go and join your brethern in syria -- only problem is people like are all talk and no action.
these times require drastic and decisive action....
seems kinka funny that the guys let go so far said it wasn't bad...like that little old man for afghanistand let go last summer - he stated the food was great...but then again these aholes came from a more privalaged place than afganistan.
your a dumbass not really see what is going on -- no war for just the sake of no war is meaningless - just means you take the blows while not responding.
Posted by: Dan ||
03/12/2004 12:29 Comments ||
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#27
Antiwar and / or muck4doo - If you're inclined to believe this guy, kindly explain to me how someone catches frostbite in a tropical zone.
That statement alone ought to set your BS meters off, but somehow I doubt it.
#29
Mucky, in your honor, I'm going to Ruth's Chris tonight and have that giant Porterhouse. I've been debating the question all morning, but your posts settled the issue. Thanx! And, BTW, are you sure the frostbite was in your toe? I know, with debilitations such as yours, that sort of detail can be awfully confusing - so I was just wondering.
#30
Al Mirror knows its audience.
They don't really expect anyone to believe this, it simply supplies a source for those who get their kicks pretending to believe outrageous lies, druggies, neurotic authoritarians, arrogant pop-culture conformists, pompous bigots.
"Antiwar," I not only don't believe this shit, I don't believe that you and the other terror-apologists believe it yourselves.
Pacifism is a lie, a criminal cult allowing nihilist power-seekers to cause untold damage and misery while clothing themselves in the trappings of traditional middle-class moralism.
#31
muck4doo - sorry, I was referencing the wrong link:
Describing medical treatment, Jamal said he knew of 11 men who had legs amputated and two who lost toes and fingers. He was told that the Americans had removed far more tissue than was necessary.
HE added: "The man in the cell next to me had frostbite in two fingers and two toes. He also had it in his big toe, but they didn't treat that for a year by which time they had to cut off much more than was needed.
"All the men who had lost limbs complained they would chop them off high up and not bother to try to save as much as possible."
My question, of course, remains. How do people get frostbite ina tropical (i.e, very warm, sunny) zone? I eagerly await a serious reply.
#32
Ex foggy-headed liberal democrat, now clear-thinking conservative republican female ranter says:
Theyâre not all this way, but . . .
# 1) This particular type of Muslim male LOVES to lie--makes him feel like a "real man." In fact, he clearly demonstrates (i.e. DEFINES) the "Islamic"/Arab penchant for emotional "storytelling" geared to get the "Really? They did what? No! Tell us more--especially the details about the women. OOPS. Uh, we mean, how terrible! Those Crusader pigs! Death to Satan America! Destroy the Infidel occupiers! Um . . . hey, what were those American women like, did you say?" response from his colleagues. Very gullible westerners, like antiwar, are just an added bonus to guys like this (dear anti--WAR: this guy is making WAR on you--on YOUR brain, on YOUR emotions, on YOUR opinions, and, he hopes, on YOUR CIVIL ACTIVISM! After all, it's an election year. He's probably working for J. F. K. (not) Kerry. No doubt, antiwar, et al, you're already chanting the mantra "Damn that George Bush and his prostitute concentration camps serving flat colas! What's an Islamic terrorist sympathizer to do? I know! I'll vote for boy scout Kerry. Iâm sure that little incident between Kerry and the intern was just a mistake . . !â Antiwar: If youâre going to call yourself âantiwar,â then at least be consistent! Youâre being played and itâs embarrassing.
# 2) This particular type of Muslim male actually has a very DIRTY MIND and HATES WOMEN because he's personally threatened by them--an inner psychic conflict going on 24/7. (He probably--like most of these guys--is a porn addict and goes to strip joints when he's not in our jails, because the truth is that he's NOT a real man at all capable of a meaningful relationship with a woman based on mutual respect and devotion, and never will be). Besides-- "forced" to touch a naked woman's body is âtortureâ for a guy? That's a good one! Sure goes against the hardwiring. I can only imagine the abolute âbrutalityâ of such a âpsychologically maimingâ strategy. American GI to prisoner: âTouch her Mr. Islamic Terrorist! I said, touch her! No, not there. There. Over to the right a little. I mean it! Go on now . . . !" Or perhaps Jamal is desperately trying to assert that it was so very tough on those âpoor, innocent, pure-as-the-driven-snowâ prisoners because of their deep and abiding regard for the sensitivities of female-kind. Iâll bet it just broke their little hearty-heart-hearts to see women disrespected and treated so badly by those ruthless American soldiers. Wait--I thought everyone already knows that forcing women to be humiliated, degraded, forced into prostitution, and sexually abused on a routine basis, is actually an Islamic-terrorist-type specialty (no doubt the reason his own sick mind came upon the idea for this ridiculous âshockerâ). And the menstrual blood thing is REALLy amazing! Totally offensive to any reader and especially upsetting to women readers. Interesting that he didnât claim that GIâs smeared urine, or semen, or feces on the prisoners--or even pig blood. Wonder why . . . ? Could it be that the report is designed to be the âend all of end allsâ of gross humiliation against the âworthyâ Islamic male by âevilâ female aggressors, as all women are (in his demented mind)? In any case, his claim is definitely guaranteed to send every black-blooded Islamic to his machine gun! It reminds me of the âUS Marines have to kill their parents and eat a live baby to rise in rankâ story they like to float around. Too much!
#3) I went to college with these clowns--the âeducatedâ âcream of the cropâ types of the Islamic world--20 some years ago--and they were just the same then: stupid, irrational, narrow-minded, irresponsible, oppressive, given to hysteria, and wanting to blow up America in order to get rid of the Jews in Palestine.
#4) My personal opinion about Jamal is that âblack and blueâ happens to goes nicely with brown (skin), that the snakes and scorpions were probably just investigating the rumor that evil human archetypes of the same had invaded the island (the good snakes and scorpions were simply checking out prisoner cage security so they themselves could sleep witnout worries), and that the âExtreme Reaction Forceâ Jamal refers to, is only a psychoanalytic moniker for his own mental illness. Finally, I think he should be happy we rescued him from the Taliban. I donât think their prisons are as comfy as ours, cola or no cola.
Posted by: ed ||
03/12/2004 15:40 Comments ||
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#35
Too bad I couldn't get the contract to "torture" these dumbs$$$$. I could have had some FUN! Can you imagine supplying Playboy toilet paper? Air HBO 24/7, with the volume just high enough you have to strain to hear - and have it all dubbed in Finnish. The things I could have done, all nice and pleasant-like to warp, twist, fold, spindle, and mutilate the minds of my A-rab brothers. They'd have PLEADED to go to Siberia! Instead, they were well-treated, fed decent meals (instead of 40-year-old K-rats), given access to the Koran, even had chaplains assigned to minster to their spiritual needs (I'd have hired Jerry Falwell and Jimmy Bakker, myself...). Even with all that, they complain. Some people just don't know when to STFU!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/12/2004 16:10 Comments ||
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#36
LuuuuCKY, LuuuuCKY, LuuuuCKY git back here we're starting to worry.
#37
Let's keep exlib and trade mucky and antiwar. We should be willing to give an undisclosed draft choice to anyone who will take them. Although I might miss mucky.
#40
If nothing else it's a good screening mechanism: anyone who comes back screaming of mistreatment is probably hard-core AQ.
Extreme Reaction Force would probably be Quick Reaction Force (QRF). Discipline cases would get some bruises and spend a lot of time in restraints as is common in any prison. Bland food is a standard part of the conveyor. It probably wouldn't hurt to add some food coloring to the gruel or water, or it could just be hallucinated. For a Pushtun or Arab lad who's never seen an unveiled woman, doubtlessly a female interrogator or translator in a T-shirt and BDU trou would seem "naked." I've read of Soviet interrogators urinating on hard cases after a week or two on the conveyor. It was a sure fire way to break a man. The fact that the Guantanamo subjects didn't talk about it for four weeks after seems to support the fact that they were broken and were looking for some excuse to justify talking. I'm not saying that US personnel did anything in violation of the Geneva Conventions, but I'm with OP on this one. Sign me up. I'd love to play with these guys' minds.
#41
Cyber Sarge: Yeah--what a great job for Jamal . . . He and Johnny go way back, and way forward, and way back . . .
Did you hear J.F.K. (not) Kerry's recent on-the-campaign-trail "off mike" (oh sure, right) clandestine-type comment about how "corrupt" and "scary" Pres. GB is? Definitely designed to alarm the undecided, brain-dead. "Wow, what does Kerry know? He knows something we don't . . . he's definitely got my vote. I've never trusted government."
11A5S: What minds? Youâre giving them too much credit!
Sgt. DT: Huh?
Atomic Conspiracy: I enjoyed your posting #30. I knew this guy once--a professional âpacifistâ--who used to hang out at the university I went to. He would organize demonstrations and the like. He was about 50-ish years old. When I left he was still there, and when I came back to the campus five years later, he was STILL there, doing the same thing. No one ever questioned him because of the student turnover. When I saw him I said, JOE . . . youâre still here! Joe, what do you do for a living? Joe, who pays you to hang around . . .? Boy, did he scram. Then I saw him at another university in another town in the same state. He freaked when he saw me. Pacifists? They have an agenda, and it ainât âpeace.â
#42
Acually (IRF) would stand for immediate reaction force but it's all the same thing
the water is not brown and the food is not 10 years past sell by date and just so you know the water is the same water that the mp's drink
the "shackels of horror" is simply a belly chain with legs and hands cuffs. the same as in a normal jail. no spikes or anything like that. there is no use of batons and hitting a detainee is not permited. and every time the IRF is used there is also a camera to witness
this is from the inside
#44
Hookers in Guantanamo!!! Patriotic ones, too!!! Freshly flown in from Norfolk, Virginia!!!
Not Norfolk - Havana. Cuba's frozen out of those lucrative Iraq rebuilding contracts. Overcharging all those Hollywood sycophants who show up to slobber all over Castro only goes so far. What tourists that are there are vacationing on the cheap. Cuba needs the money and hookers are its most marketable product. Q.E.D.
A convicted Peruvian terrorist who last year married Lori Berenson, an American serving a 20-year sentence for aiding leftist rebels, has been granted conjugal visiting rights at her Andean prison. "They gave me permission in late October to visit her two times a month," Anibal Apari told The Associated Press by cell phone from the Andean city of Cajamarca, 350 miles north of Lima, where Berenson is being held.
"She cut me down to twice a month. Twice a month! I shouldn't complain, two guys I know she cut out completely."
Apari dismissed a report in the tabloid newspaper Correo on Thursday that Berenson is trying to become pregnant. "We still haven't talked about that," he said, adding that the use of birth control is required by prison authorities.
Must ... resist ... don't ... ask ... how ...
Apari was released from prison in June after serving 12 1/2 years of a 15-year sentence. The terms of his parole initially prohibited him from leaving Lima, and his father had to stand in for him at the Oct. 2 prison wedding.
"Dearly beloved, who gives this groom in ... hey!"
Berenson, 34, and Apari, 40, met while both were serving sentences for involvement with the Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement. Prior to November, Apari had not seen Berenson since October 1998, when she was transferred to a different prison. Berenson was convicted by a secret military court in 1996 and sentenced to life in prison for being a Marxist scumbag Tupac Amaru leader and plotting a thwarted attack on Peru's Congress. That decision was overturned in 2000. The following year she was convicted in a civilian court on the lesser charge of terrorist collaboration and sentenced to 20 years in prison, including time served. Berenson denies the charges.
"Lies! All lies! And I want my mommy!"
Berenson is hoping her conviction will be overturned by the Inter-American Court of Human Rights in Costa Rica. Her father, Mark Berenson, told The Associated Press from his home in Manhattan that the case is expected to be heard in early May. Asked whether his daughter wants to start a family, he laughed. "He wants that ... He's 40," Berenson said, referring to Apari. "I would love to be a grandfather, but I don't want to pressure them."
Don't worry, Gramps, if you live to be 90 you might get your wish.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/12/2004 12:27:38 AM ||
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#1
I'm satisfied knowing that asshat is cooling her heels for the next 16 years or whatever. I'll never understand what makes these psuedo hippy marxist retards want export that silliness outside of their own commune. They always seem to get tied up with violent rebels somewhere. St. Rachel Araflat Pancake is another example.
I'm sure the Inter-American Court of Human Rights carries alot of weight with the Peruvians.
#4
Anybody else note that same imbecilic grin on this loonie's face that we saw on the faces of the JI cannon fodder in the Indo trials?
The inner "peace" that comes from believing your shit doesn't stink and that you know better than the rest of the world must be externalized by this bizarre Mona Lisa rictus-imitation.
#5
There are things that could be put into her food to ensure a miscarriage. There are things that could applied to his testicles that will ensure a repeat pregnancy doesn't happen. There are ways to make these things known before hand.
#7
Wonder what she'll think when she comes down with some veneral disease. Wonder if his "conjugal visits" will continue, or if our dear St. Lori of the Loonies will get a new trial - for murder!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/12/2004 16:15 Comments ||
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Arab News
Wednesday's Madrid massacre is arguably Europeâs Sept. 11. It came three and a half years to the day after Al-Qaedaâs murderous attacks on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. The danger is that this latest outrage may wreak the same change in attitudes among Europeans as the New York and Washington crimes did for Americans.
I suppose in Arabia they might consider that to be a danger...
The fury that Madridâs traumatic horrors have caused across Europe has yet to coalesce, because it is not yet clear who perpetrated this savagery. The Spanish governmentâs immediate blaming of ETA terrorists now seems premature, all the more so given ETAâs denial, although they can hardly be taken at their word. The discovery of a stolen van with seven detonators and an audiotape with verses from the Qurâan in the town of Alcala de Henares has inevitably cast suspicion on Al-Qaeda.
As does the technique, the corpse count, and the timing...
The van might have been planted by ETA but this would undermine the impact of the terror attack. In the past the Basque killers have happily acknowledged their butchery. The simultaneous timing and pitiless nature of the assaults on civilians are far more in keeping with the depraved record of Al-Qaeda.
That's what I said...
If this is proven, the impact upon European policy toward the Middle East will be profound. Thus far, Europeâs leaders have attempted to put the brakes on the aggressive Bush White House approach toward Iraq, Palestine and Israel. European leaders have been prepared to argue the Palestinian case and condemn Israelâs brutalization of the inhabitants of the occupied territories.
They're continuing to 9-10 it, making distinctions among terrorists...
A majority of Europeans, even in the UK and Spain whose governments actively supported Washingtonâs Iraq policy, has opposed the Iraq invasion and felt that the Coalition has brought the subsequent violence there upon itself and the Iraqi people. If Al-Qaeda is shown to have perpetrated the Madrid crimes or had anything to do with them, the sentiment in Europe is likely to undergo a fundamental change. European cities will brace themselves for further massacres. The same bigoted reaction toward Muslims that took place in the US after Sept. 11 may well be seen in Europe.
Some of us consider our reactions to be quite reasonable, given the circumstances. And the reaction's not toward all Muslims, but toward Islamists — the people who want to impose Islam on the rest of the world at the point of a gun. The people who're willing to blow up trains full of people in Madrid.
Indeed it may be worse. Europeâs racist bigots like Franceâs National Front are bound to try and cash in, claiming their vicious xenophobia has been vindicated.
Indeed, perhaps it has. Europe's now chock full of people who are determined to adhere to a different, inimical culture. Why go to Europe if you're not going to be European? Unless it's to impose your own culture and displace the existing populace.
Europe could easily be infected with American paranoia and illiberalism. Most crucially, it might start to accept Israelâs craven claims that it too is a helpless victim of fanatical Muslim terrorism.
Bus booms, train booms — show me the difference...
If Al-Qaeda were responsible for the enormity of Madrid, nothing could have been better calculated to destroy the position of moderate European politicians searching for an end to Palestineâs agony.
Too bad for the Paleos, huh? Maybe they should have negotiated. I guess it's a cultural thing.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/12/2004 9:11:27 PM ||
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#1
It's not just the Paleos you need to worry about. That separatist movement in the Saudi eastern provinces might heat up too.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
03/12/2004 21:41 Comments ||
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Interior Minister Angel Acebes said the armed Basque separatist group ETA remained the prime suspect, although suspicion has also fallen on Al-Qaeda. But ETA yesterday denied responsibility for the attacks, a Basque newspaper said. The pro-Basque independence daily Gara, which ETA often uses to issue statements, told The Associated Press a caller claiming to represent the group phoned its newsroom to deny government allegations that ETA was behind the attacks.
As evening fell, hundreds of thousands of Spaniards gathered in Madrid and other cities for marches to protest the bombings. Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi, French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin, European Union President Romano Prodi and German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer attended a massive rally. An estimated two million took part in the rally in Madrid. Hospital officials said a 7-month-old baby girl died yesterday, raising the death toll to 199. The babyâs mother is apparently hospitalized and her father is missing.
Earlier, a militant Basque politician denied ETA was involved and accused the government of lying to seek political advantage in tomorrowâs national elections. âThe Spanish government is lying deliberately,â Arnaldo Otegi, leader of the banned Batasuna party, told reporters in the northern city of Bilbao. If ETA is deemed responsible for Thursdayâs attacks, that could boost support for Mariano Rajoy, Aznarâs hand-picked candidate to become Spainâs next leader. Both have supported a hard-line crackdown on the violent separatist group, which is fighting for an independent state in northern Spain, ruling out talks. However, if Thursdayâs bombing is seen by voters as the work of Al-Qaeda, that could draw votersâ attention to Aznarâs vastly unpopular decision to endorse the US-led invasion of Iraq and the deployment of Spanish troops.
Or it could turn the Spanish people around to the point where they want to kill the bastards.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/12/2004 9:06:02 PM ||
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Cut from a longer article.
Acebes said the discovery of an unexploded bomb meant to be used in the bombing had opened new leads. A sports bag was found on one of the mangled trains which contained explosives similar to a type Acebes said ETA had used in the past. He said the detonator was the same as those found in the van in Alcala de Henares but did not address media reports that the type of detonator was different to ones commonly used by ETA. Which seems conclusive that the van was used by the boomers.
The bomb was intended to be set off by a mobile phone and was packed with shrapnel, Acebes said. Packing shrapnel around a bomb to maximize death and injury is a paleo technique.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/12/2004 8:29:47 PM ||
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...where I signed the book of condolences. I kept my friends from Rantburg in mind as I signed, and it occurred to me just how absolutely pointless the act of bombing trains and train stations full of civilians truly is.
Notice to evil people everywhere...This. Did. Not. Help. Your. Case. Prepare to learn another hard lesson in Cause ==> Effect.
#2
Thanks for the gesture,Sea. I e-mailed the Spanish Consulate in LA last night.
My outrage at this despicable deed is almost equal to my anger on 9/11/2001. I hope that the civilized world sees this as an act of war and not just criminal behavior.
From al-Jazeera: The following is the translation of the purported al-Qaida linked group which is claiming responsibility for yesterdayâs Madrid bombings. The statement was published in Arabic in the London based newspaper Al-Quds Al-Arabi.
In the Name of God
In its last statement (al-Qaida statement in relation to Baghdad and Karbala bombings) dated 11 Muharam, 1425 Hijri calendar corresponds to 2 March, 2004, Abu Hafs al-Masri brigade promised that it was preparing more attacks.
Here the brigade is keeping its word. The death squad (of the Abu Hafs Al-Masri Brigades) succeeded in penetrating the crusader European depths and striking one of the pillars of the crusader alliance - Spain - with a painful blow. These bomb attacks were part of settling old scores with the crusader Spain for its war against Islam. And when they say old, they mean the Moors being kicked out of Spain.
Where is America to protect you today, Aznar. Who is going to protect you, Britain, Italy, Japan and other hirelings from us?
When we hit Italian troops in Nasirya (Iraq) and sent you and other hirelings a warning to withdraw from the alliance against Islam, you did not comprehend our warning â now we have made it clear - we hope that it will be understood this time. We understand that you are cold-blooded killers and we need to exterminate you.
We in Abu Hafs al-Masri did not feel sad for the death of the so-called civilians. Is it lawful for them to kill our children, women, elderly and men in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, and Kashmir, and is unlawful for us to kill them back. (The statement then refers to Quranic verses saying that Muslim should hit back if attacked).
Stop targeting us, release our prisoners, and leave our land, we will stop attacking you. The people of US allied countries have to put pressure on their governments to immediately end their alliance with the US in the war against terror (Islam). If you persist we will also continue⊠We want to tell you that the Death Smoke squad will reach you soon, and then you will see your dead in their thousands â God willing⊠This is a warning⊠Death Smoke squad + dead in thousands = chemical attack?
In a separate attack the Jund al-Quds (Soldiers of Jerusalem) targeted a Jewish Masonic lodge in Istanbul. Three top Masons were killed in the operation, and if it was not for the technical failure all the masons would have been killed, but for some Devine wisdom only three were killed. Thanks God anyway. Guess God wanted you to fail.
We would like to tell Bilal bin Rabah Squad that the leadership agreed on the proposal, and when the representative arrives, work will start. That would be a operational message to a terror cell, note western didnât report them but al-Jaz did.
We also would like to tell Abu Ali al-Harithi Squad that the leadership decided that Yemen would be the third quagmire for the idol of the time, America, and to teach the government which comes in the second place after Musharaf, in treason and infidelity, a lesson. Another message to a Yemen cell, theyâve been getting hit pretty hard there, guess theyâre in Dire Revenge mode.
Therefore, all cells are to be on alert. Action will start at (time and code given) â Do not forget to debilitate, do not forget Abu Ali al-Harithi, and do not forget the Muslim scholar who was extradited to Egypt by Yemen Sheik Abd al-Qadir Abd al-Aziz (Sayyed Imam Sharif). He was imprisoned three months after the September 11 attacks. Egypt is also on todayâs Revenge list.
We want to inform those who kill Muslim Sunni scholars (Ulamaaâ) in Iraq to come to a halt otherwise ⊠Otherwise, what? Youâll make faces?
We would like to announce to all Muslims in the world that 90% of the preparations of operation "wind of black death" designed to be performed in America has finished, and will be performed soon God willing (at the Mujahideenâs convenience). God gave the order, but youâll get to when you have time?
Believers will celebrate the victory of God. Youâve been getting ready to destroy the US for a long time, weâre still waiting.
Warning to the nation:- Avoid being close to the civil and military installations of America and its allies. Would that be the Islamic Nation, or a specific one?
God is great, God is great â Islam is drawing closer by the might of mighty and by humbling the mean. You ainât seen mean, yet.
Signed by "Abu Hafs al-Masri/al-Qaida" and dated 11 March, 2004.
Al-Quds al-Arabi - Aljazeera translation by Ahmed Janabi
Posted by: Steve ||
03/12/2004 11:31:46 AM ||
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#6
Well, I guess it's like in The Hunting of the Snark: What TGA tells us three times is true.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
03/12/2004 12:24 Comments ||
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#7
Stop targeting us, release our prisoners, and leave our land, we will stop attacking you.
this is bullshit - these asshats have been hitting the west well before 9-11 - afganistan and iraq......no matter what we do we will be hit -- the landen 1997 decaration stated we needed to get out of saud land....well we are no longer there and there rational adjusts for these facts....... this will continue in a vicous cycle until iran, syria are taken out....
Posted by: Dan ||
03/12/2004 12:36 Comments ||
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why would it stop when Iran & Syria are taken out ?
#10
NRO has an interesting article, written by president of MEMRI, that analyzes the memo (for language and style) and comes to the conclusion that it probably isn't an genuine al Queda document. Link here.
Hat tip LGF.
If youâre wondering how the Islamist terrorists got enough explosives to kill 198 Spaniards and wound 1200 more, many maimed for life, hereâs a dispatch from the daily news report of Radio Free Europe which may be an answer.
According to the Czech Republic news agency, CTK, Czech police seized "hundreds of tons of imported, military-grade plastic explosives and detained two men on weapon-trafficking charges on March 10." The police, no doubt sensitive to protocol, failed to identify the country from which the shipments originated but a Czech newspaper spilled the beans: The country is Sweden and the shipment was 328 tons of explosives. 328 tons! Might have blown up all of Madrid for all I know.
The Czech daily, Mlada Fronta Dnes, further reported that the suspected seller was supposed to have destroyed the explosives but instead exported them â but to whom? Who needs 328 tons of plastic explosives? The newspaper doesnât say. It adds that the alleged buyers of the 328 tons of plastic explosives "were two Czech businessmen who intended to reprocess the explosives for resale." But to whom? Al Qaeda, or intermediaries? We know who the buyers are, I assume, but who were the end users? And more, who in Sweden is making plastic explosive and how could 328 tons get loaded onto to a vessel unobserved, without anyone asking questions? How? HOW? I WILL BE ANSWERED!
Anyway, not to worry. The "businessmen" now under arrest are going to be tried under Czech law as well as under the 1991 Montreal Treaty prohibiting weapons trafficking. Have a good day.
Posted by: Steve from Relto ||
03/12/2004 11:16:13 AM ||
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#1
Oops⦠Put this in Terror Networks or Europe, whichever is more appropriate.
Posted by: Steve from Relto ||
03/12/2004 11:17 Comments ||
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Could be ETA or a combo of both. IRA's starting to work w/a lot of different groups.
Rucksack bombs used in deadly Madrid train bombings were set off by mobile phone and contained copper detonators, which are not generally used by armed Basque separatist group ETA, a radio station has reported. Only one source reporting this so far.
Cadena Ser radio station quoted security sources as saying the bombs, which blew up on four trains killing 198 people, were activated by mobile telephones which had had their alarms set for 7:39 a.m. (6:39 British time) on Thursday. Phone with a built in alarm clock? Sounds reasonable, either used as a timer or you could call it to set off the charge. Anyone out there have a phone with alarm feature?
The detonator in an unexploded bomb recovered by police contained a copper detonator whereas the detonators commonly used by ETA are made of aluminium, the report said on Friday. While this is one more clue, they could have just stolen a different batch of detonators. The phone is a bigger clue, al-Qaeda is quite fond of mobile phones.
The Interior Ministry could not immediately confirm the report.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/12/2004 10:59:41 AM ||
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#2
Guess I'm old fashioned, I just use mine to call people.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/12/2004 11:40 Comments ||
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Hmmm, from Iberian Notes:
According to TV 3, the Corriere della Sera is reporting that a group of some 80 Basque terrorists made their way to Iraq after May 20, 2003, in order to join the Saddamite resistance. Most of them have left, but some have stayed under the cover of NGO workers. Two of them were those arrested in Cuenca with more than 500 kilos of explosives. If this is true, and I want to see a lot of evidence that it is before I believe it, then ETA is a full member, and one in good standing, of the Terror International.
#5
Why are the new batch of trolls so LAZY?!?
Look, you dumbasses, it's clear you either started reading RB *yesterday* or you have no idea how to use Google!
As to this article, remember the 2 appeasers yesterday who kept babbling that the Madrid bombings had to be ETA because they were using "their" explosive?
Guess this puts that to rest for good and all.
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/12/2004 17:57 Comments ||
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#7
LOL, Frank, no worries!
After yesterday, I'm not in the mood for the Clueless, the appeasers or the terrorist apologists!
I am sick to fricking death of seeing pictures of people blown up, people crying in shock and horror and sorrow, sick of this senseless murder of the innocent and unwitting!
Make. it. stop.
... so if I'm a little cranky here, I apologize.
The headline is weasily misleading implying that ETA sometimes used the kind of denotators used, while no evidence is presented that ETA have ever used this kind of detonator.
Rucksack bombs used in deadly Madrid train bombings were set off by mobile phone and contained copper detonators, which are not generally used by armed Basque separatist group ETA, a radio station has reported. Cadena Ser radio station quoted security sources as saying the bombs, which blew up on four trains killing 198 people, were activated by mobile telephones which had had their alarms set for 7:39 a.m. (6:39 British time) on Thursday. The detonator in an unexploded bomb recovered by police contained a copper detonator whereas the detonators commonly used by ETA are made of aluminium, the report said on Friday. The Interior Ministry could not immediately confirm the report. Still like my theory of islamofacist, probably paleo, boomers for hire.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/12/2004 10:37:22 AM ||
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#1
I have been informed that Cadena Ser has ties to the opposition Socialist Party who wish to link this to Al Qaeda in order to embarrass Aznar before the elections. Who knows? Still, all must be factored in, including obvious--both ETA and Islamists could be involved.
Posted by: Roger L. Simon ||
03/12/2004 10:49 Comments ||
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YESTERDAY, terrorists took the lives of almost 200 Spanish civilians, wounding perhaps 1,400 more. Ten coordinated explosions struck three morning commuter trains entering Madrid. It happened on the 2 1/2-year anniversary of the attacks on Manhattan and Washington - 30 months to the day. The symbolism was intentional. The facts are still coming in. The Spanish government initially blamed the ETA, a Basque separatist organization with minimal popular support and a maximum will to violence. But evidence of al Qaeda links - including a letter claiming responsibility - soon surfaced. And itâs startling how closely yesterdayâs killers followed the 9/11 template. The terrorists exploited the openness of public transportation - this time trains, not planes - to stage dramatic, merciless and nearly simultaneous strikes on massed civilians. It was 9/11 on rails.
Whatever their other human flaws, terrorist leaders arenât stupid. They learn from successes and failures. Even beyond the tactical details of the attacks, the greatest lesson the terrorists drew from 9/11 was the importance of thinking big, of staging stunning, interconnected attacks that, amplified by the media, appear even greater than the painful sum of their parts. If anyone doubts that the War on Terror is global or that itâs a struggle between civilization and barbarity, yesterday gave further proof that we have no choice but to fight with all our resources.
Why strike Spain? The letter from the "Brigade of Abu Hafs al-Masri" reportedly said: "This is part of settling old accounts with Spain, the crusader, and Americaâs ally in its war against Islam." But the deeper reasons those trains were attacked was because of Spainâs growing success, because of the Madrid governmentâs courage, and because of Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznarâs vision. Spain has not only taken a firm stand against domestic terrorism, but joined the global War on Terror as an equal partner. The most striking strategic moment of Operation Iraqi Freedom wasnât the opening salvo lighting up Baghdad, but the Azores summit before the war began. The three boldest leaders of Western civilization stood shoulder to shoulder: President Bush, the valiant Tony Blair and Prime Minister Aznar - in many ways the bravest of the three. Donât forgt Aussie PM Howard
On the eve of war, Aznar faced a situation much like the one FDR faced between 1939 and Dec. 7, 1941. FDR knew that we had to join the fight, but the American people didnât appear ready to accept that necessity. Aznar went FDR one better. He ignored the political torpedoes - a majority of Spaniards didnât support sending their troops to Iraq - and did what he saw as essential for the future of his own country and our common civilization. Aznar risked all politically to do the right thing. As a result, the forces of international terror want vengeance against Spain.
I think they want Spain back, actually...
Equally threatening to the international extremists has been Spainâs recent renaissance. In the generation after the death of Franco, Spain came from behind on virtually every front. Itâs now the most promising country in Europe - culturally, diplomatically and economically.
That's gotta gall them. Spain, lest we forget, stagnated for all those years under Franco, the world's only remaining fascist state, at the tail end of Europrosperity. Francisco croaked, Juan Carlos returned, and without its economy being managed it shoots ahead. So now the Islamists want to replace that with another version of fascism...
With our "old establishment" fixated on what our secretary of defense affectionately termed "old Europe," remarkably little has been broadcast or written about the new Spainâs transformation from ugly duckling to strategic swan. What happened was almost unique: The dreary decades of Francoâs rule climaxed centuries of Spanish stagnation. Spain, the great colonial power, in the end had "colonized" and brutalized itself. Spain had slipped so far behind the rest of Europe that it resembled a Latin American banana republic.
But the economy was managed...
But Francoâs death and the virtues of Spainâs indispensable man, King Juan Carlos, unleashed 400 years of pent-up social, creative and intellectual energies. Spainâs progress has been without peer in Europe. Freedom worked. The first milestones on the path out of tyranny and stagnation appear in the arts. And Spanish film, literature and even cuisine have become the most innovative in Europe. On the business front, Spanish banks and investors think strategically: Theyâve poured billions into Latin America through good years and bad, taking a long-term view.
Then Spain produced a prime minister - Aznar - with a revolutionary vision of his countryâs place in the world. Although some Spaniards still indulge in leftist tirades against the United States, thatâs just a hangover from the black years - when Washington was all too ready to excuse Francoâs oppression. Weâve moved on, and the Spain that matters has moved on. Like the Arab street, the Spanish street clings to the past - and determines nothing. Along with the United Kingdom, Spain is the obvious strategic partner for the United States on the Atlantic littoral. Our three countries have synergistic ties across the ocean - not only with each other, but with Latin America and Africa, the two continents with the most undervalued potential. In this new century, our interests converge. As a result, the threats against us also converge. Terrorists hate successful democracies, public freedoms and thriving economies. Foreign and domestic, the forces of terror hate all that 21st century Spain stands for. The losses suffered by the Spanish people on March 11, 2004, were as devastating to our allies and friends as the losses of 9/11 were to us. Spain stood by us. Now we must have the vision to stand by Spain. Ralph Peters is the author of "Beyond Terror: Strategy in a Changing World."
Posted by: tipper ||
03/12/2004 7:06:29 AM ||
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#1
Ralph cannot claim he knows who perpetrated the bombings, but he claims to know the REASONS for the bombings. The Ralphs of this planet should WAIT until they have the FACTS for prescribing motives.
#2
Garrison should STOP capitalizing RANDOM words. It MAKES him look STUPID.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
03/12/2004 8:28 Comments ||
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#3
AND sometimes APPEARANCES don't DECEIEVE.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/12/2004 9:23 Comments ||
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#4
Does anyone have a link to Garrison's blog? I'd much rather read his STUFF there.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
03/12/2004 11:12 Comments ||
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#5
I dont know whether it was ETA or Al Queda or (fill in terrorist organization's name here. I expect we will find out in time.Motive likewise unknown as of yet.
#6
On the contrary, the motivations and purposes of each of these groups are a matter of public record, easily accessible to even the most obtuse lefties and terror-apologists.
The attribution of motive is not therefore complete speculation.
If ETA did this, we know why.
If AQ or its associates did it, we also know why.
#7
I hope, regardless of the rest of the crap stirred up by all this, it ends all doubt that we are at war, not in the middle of a "crime". It is a war against our entire civilization, and it is a war that will not end until one side or the other either surrenders or is totally destroyed. Europe is a target - it's time for them to quit hiding and either get on board, or get the he$$ out of the way.
In one way, this was a collossal foul-up on the part of the terrorists. It once more revives the truth that we are fighting a relentless enemy that considers anyone not like them a target. It's time to dump Kerry in the garbage can, stand up for civilization as we know it, and end the attacks by destroying the attackers and their backers. This is not rocket science. We are faced with a menace just as diabolical, just as cruel, and just as relentless as NAZI Germany or militant Japan. It's also time to stop thinking that, just because some people don't come right out and say they support this war, the clandestine support doesn't exist. Those that support these terrorists, by word, deed, financing, or in any other way, need to be rooted out and destroyed.
Personally, I'm getting kind of tired of preaching the obvious, and getting a glassy stare back in return. Those that "don't get it" should really, really get it - right where it counts.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/12/2004 16:28 Comments ||
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Motive likewise unknown as of yet.
No, it isn't. We know their motive, whoever did this. They want to murder as many people as possible.
THEY'RE FUCKING COWARDS and too chicken to fight the military on an actual battleground. I hope they like it hot, because they're all going to burn in Hell. The sooner, the better.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
03/12/2004 23:21 Comments ||
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From February 27, 2002
Three Eta members travelled to al-Qaida camps in Afghanistan last year to buy ground-to-air missiles and train in their use, according to a report from an unnamed Arab intelligence service obtained by Tiempo magazine in Spain. The magazine said the Basque separatists had bought three Stinger missiles, which Spanish intelligence services feared they would try to use to bring down official aircraft carrying government ministers or King Juan Carlos.
Official Spanish documents seen by the Guardian confirm that officials believe Eta has obtained anti-aircraft missiles. Some of Spainâs major airports, especially those in the Basque country in the north, have put into place special protective measures to avoid ground-to-air attacks, according to Tiempo. The intelligence report quoted by Tiempo said that the three Eta members travelled from Brussels to Islamabad, Pakistan, in January using false Belgian passports. They were reportedly accompanied by Syrian-born Imad Eddin Barakat, alias Abu Dahdah, the alleged leader of a Spanish-based al-Qaida cell who is in jail in Madrid under suspicion of being involved in the September 11 plot. The four travellers were spotted by an intelligence service informer in Islamabad airport because they spoke to one another in Spanish, despite their Belgian passports. They told immigration officials they were Belgian journalists travelling to Afghanistan.
The Eta members were reportedly met at Islamabad airport by Anwar Adnan Salah, a Palestinian who previously lived in Madrid. According to Spanish court documents, Mr Salah founded the Spanish al-Qaida cell but left to help run the Jalada training camp in Afghanistan three years ago. A Spanish judge has claimed he worked for Osama bin Ladenâs Makhtab al-Khidamat recruiting organisation. The party travelled to Peshawar and Jalalabad before arriving at the Jalada training camp, where they stayed for 18 days and trained in the use of several kinds of ground-to-air missiles. It was unclear how the Stinger missiles, originally given to Bin Laden by the CIA when his group was fighting the Russians, could have been transported to Spain or to Etaâs logistics bases in France. Tiempo reported that Eta paid around £300,000 for them. Last year Eta was reported to have made contact with other Middle Eastern groups, including Hamas. El Mundo newspaper claimed that the Basque group, which has carried out several spectacular explosives robberies in French warehouses in recent years, was providing the group with explosives for use in suicide attacks in Israel.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
03/12/2004 3:37:54 AM ||
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#1
The convergence of multiple terror networks with roots in a variety of different ideologies is IMO the clearest sign that what we really face is a general threat to civilization as a whole.
#2
I read somewhere those Stingers were built to go out of order after a few years:none of the 80's stock should be in working order or even reparable now.Can you confirm that?
Posted by: El Id ||
03/12/2004 9:12 Comments ||
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#3
The Stingers are quite the urban legend. As I understand it, they take a certain amount of care and maintenance, which they were unlikely to receive in the caves and dusty huts of Afghanistan. In addition, their batteries would be long dead. The only danger you might be in from one of bin Laden's Stingers is dropping one on your foot.
BTW, the notion that the CIA gave bin Laden anything is also questionable. There has been some discussion about him fighting much of his war from a hotel room in Pakistan, bragging to reporters.
#5
El Id -
The Stingers we sent to Afghanistan would have been useless within a year or so at most. Chuck is right on the money when he points out that they require serious, consistent maintenance and storage. In addition, the batteries would have been useless in a year or so. Even if these were original missiles with new batteries, there's a strong risk that if you tried to fire them, you'd get a spectacular visual display where the launching guy used to be.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
03/12/2004 9:44 Comments ||
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#6
OK Mike - now I'd pay to see that!
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/12/2004 16:34 Comments ||
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A somewhat different perspective on the subject than the other story.
The flood of conflicting evidence and clues that emerged from the carnage of the Madrid bombings yesterday pointed in two very different directions, leaving counterterrorism officials in a country painfully familiar with terrorist violence struggling to identify a culprit. Just hours after the bombings, the Spanish authorities blamed the Basque separatist group known as ETA. Hours later, the same officials announced the discovery of new evidence they said left open the possibility that Islamic militants had been involved. "Could it have been Islamic fundamentalists?" one senior Spanish antiterrorism official asked last night. "It could have been. Spain is clearly a target of Al Qaeda; Osama bin Laden has said so himself." The scale of the violence, the indiscriminate nature of the killing and the near-simultaneity of the 10 bombings yesterday were all reminiscent of Al Qaeda. In addition, the Spanish interior minister said the police had found detonators and an audio tape of Koranic verses inside a stolen van that was parked near the station where three of the four bombed trains originated. Unless the Basques have decided to switch religions on us, a van loaded with detonators and Arabic audiotapes tends to point things in the Islamist direction ...
In a sign of concern that the violence might not be limited to Spain, France raised its national terrorism alert from the lowest level. A senior French security official said in the days before the Madrid bombings that they had indications of possible terrorist attacks on railways in France and other European nations. That would be the ransom demand that we heard about a little while ago.
Yet in the chaotic aftermath of the bombings, antiterrorism officials cautioned that other evidence seemed to implicate ETA. One Spanish official who spoke on the condition he not be named said the dynamite-like explosive used in the attacks, Titadine, had been used before by ETA, which stands for Euskadi Ta Askatasuna, or Basque Homeland and Freedom. It is also widely available commercially, per the WaPo article.
Most recently the police found the same explosive in a vehicle they intercepted last month as it was driven to Madrid by ETA militants. The police also found bomb-laden backpacks like those used in yesterdayâs attacks when they foiled a bombing at a Madrid train station on Christmas Eve, an event they linked to ETA. Yesterdayâs bombings also came after months of intelligence reporting that ETA was planning a major attack, several Spanish officials said. The timing of the violence â with national elections scheduled for Sunday â seemed to suggest ETAâs hand as well, they said. Or Binnyâs jackboots wanting to pay back Aznar and the Popular Party for supporting the war in Iraq while he was still in office. The evidence can be interpretted either way, though I doubt the van w/ the detonator and the tapes can ...
But even as the interior minister, Ãngel Acebes, was blaming ETA directly for the carnage, another senior Spanish counterterrorism official questioned privately whether the Basque group would wantonly kill so many innocents, most of whom were the sort of working-class people to whom ETAâs Marxist-oriented leaders have traditionally tried to appeal. "Iâm not so certain," said the official, who has investigated Basque terrorism for more than a decade. "The problem is that ETA has never taken a step of this magnitude before. This would be off the charts for them."
ETA has long demanded an independent Basque state in northern Spain and southern France. The group has been under increasing pressure from both governments in recent years, and officials said they believed its capacity for violent action appeared to have declined. The Spanish authorities reported arresting 125 ETA members and accomplices last year. The French arrested 46 others, including some senior leaders. "Neither ETA nor Grapo maintains the degree of operational capability it once enjoyed," the American State Department reported this year, referring also to a smaller radical organization called the First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Group. "The overall level of terrorist activity is considerably less than in the past, and the trend appears to be downward." Some in Spain fear that yesterdayâs bombings could be an indication that the crackdown could be driving radical young Basques into the ETA underground. "If this was ETA, it is the crazies, the cubs, who have grown more and more radical," a senior Spanish antiterrorism official said. "The more political cadres are losing influence, and these ones are more difficult to reason with." The problem is, the krazed kiddies arenât going to be the ones with the intelligence, patience, or sophistication to orchestrate what happened in Madrid, at least IMO. So that means either some of the old guard are still at large and have expanded their horizons or that itâs somebody else. What the Basques could possibly hope to accomplish by perpetrating this atrocity is anyoneâs guess, it sure ainât going to get them their own country anytime soon.
In Washington, a counterterrorism official cautioned against assigning blame, saying terrorism experts would carefully review the evidence before ruling out involvement by ETA. He said American officials were still discussing whether to send experts to assist the Spanish governmentâs investigation. Before yesterday, Al Qaeda had not carried out any known attacks in Spain. But prosecutors say the group has maintained cells in Spain since at least the early 1990âs, insinuating themselves among the countryâs growing Arab immigrant population. The Spanish police and intelligence agencies, strengthened in part by their long struggle against Basque separatists, began watching such groups well before most of their European counterparts. By the mid-1990âs, they were monitoring a network of Syrian immigrants, many of them affiliated with the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood whose members have since been accused of logistical and other support to the Sept. 11 hijackers. In a nearly 700-page indictment issued last year, the Spanish investigative magistrate Baltasar Garzón accused one of the Syrians, a successful businessman named Muhammad Galeb Kalaje Zouaydi, of distributing $800,000 for the Qaeda network under the cover of a Spanish real-estate development company. Mr. Kalajeâs lawyer has denied the charges.
"Nope. Nope. Never happened. Nope."
Mohamed Atta, the hijacker who was the pilot of the first plane to slam into the World Trade Center, visited Spain two months before the terror attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Spanish officials said they believed Mr. Atta may have held a strategy session with other leaders of the hijacking plot outside Madrid. The Spanish authorities also asserted links to Al Qaeda in rounding up 16 terrorism suspects in January 2003 around the northeastern cities of Barcelona and Girona. Although the police seized a cache of explosives and chemicals, most of the men were released for lack of evidence.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/12/2004 12:46:11 AM ||
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#1
There aren't a lot of English citations for Titadine (almost sounds dirty) on the web but several of the Spanish citations seem to indicate that Titadine is a brand name for dynamite, i.e. "dynamite (trade)marked Titadine." Apparently ETA stole a big batch from Brittany (the French province, not the pop-tart) some years ago.
Here's the paranoid conspiracy theory that is cropping up in my mind. ETA plants the bombs, and this was clearly an ETA-style job, but tries to make it look like Al Qaeda, or at least bring up the suspicion as best they can--and note that the first person to link the alleged "Arab resistance" group and the massacre in Madrid was none other than ETA mouthpiece Arnaldo Otegui. Their strategy: Piss off the people against Aznar and the PP, their sworn enemies, for getting us in the sights of Al Qaeda. That's a terribly narrow and selfish attitude to have--"Aznar and Bush got these people killed" for daring to use force to stop terrorism. Enough people might have that very attitude, though, that there's a backlash at the polls on Sunday against the PP and they lose the election. That's something ETA would very much like to see.
It seems possible. The tape containing verses from the Koran, left in a stolen van left outside a station - its presence would comfortably fit with John's theory. Wonder what was on the other tapes. Music? Western music? Arabic/North African music? It would be interesting to know.
The Brigade of Abu Hafs al-Masri also claimed A/Q responsibility for the East coast power blackouts last August. Their letter should be taken with salt.
So far, the MO, for sheer scale and complexity, looks more A/Q than ETA but the materials used all apparently point towards ETA. And there's plenty of evidence that ETA have been planning similar attacks themselves recently. To me, it still looks like an ETA job, with a yet-to-be-established A/Q contribution.
#4
Dan: Where is it written only al-Qa'ida terrorists can possess Arabic audiotapes? Does it seem even the least bit "convenient" for the ETA that detonators and an audiotape containing Koranic verses would be planted on the frontseat of a vehicle in plain sight at the nexis of the bombing plot? As the Islamic Fascist terrorists have a preference for martyrdom operations, why is it the "bomb backpacks" were not strapped to al-Qa'ida terrorists when they went boom? It would seem likely guided backpacks full of explosives would kill more people than backpacks left sitting on trains and in stations. How do you explain similar backpacks found in possession of ETA terrorists in December? Just a coincidence? Just a coincidence an ETA van loaded with explosives was intercepted about two weeks back? I await the FACTS.
#5
France has a Basque problem and were working a bomb plot threatening the targeting of railways. Spain has a Basque problem and their railways were targeted for bombings. Just a coincidence, Dan? France which opposed the Iraq war elevated their terror alert status. Did Germany? Did Belgium?
#6
France has no Basque problem. Spain has one because, thanks to a protectionist policy who favored Basque industries and was lethal for agricultural South, the Basque region became richer than average. This motivated Sabino de Arana, a Basque who didn't speak a word of Basque, to get a swollen head and start a movement advocating the RACIAL superiority of Basques and their separation of Spain.
But France's Basque country, who has a MUCH lower population than its Spanish counterpart, is not an industrial power house, has never been richer than average France and is in the shade of Bordeaux and Pau. So no swollen heads and no significant separatist movement in France.
#7
Dan: The French have not been spared from ETA bombings, kidnapping, murder and robbery. The ETA terrorists captured with bomb backpacks in December and the ETA terrorists captured with a 1,000 pound car bomb last month made their bombs with Titadine stolen from France. France pisses of the ETA whenever they go into the Basque region to arrest an ETA terrorist as they did in December when they picked up an ETA commander. France has a Basque problem. I shall wait for investigators armed with FACTS to make the appropriate conclusions as to what group of terrorists are responsible for the carnage.
For what it's worth, my money's on Garrison being right...
Posted by: P Ass ||
03/12/2004 8:35 Comments ||
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#11
I never said he was wrong; I just said his tic is getting a bit annoying. He seems pissed off that people are speculating.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
03/12/2004 8:46 Comments ||
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#12
Garrison:
I'm sure there's no law prohibiting the Basques from having Koranic audiotapes but the whole point of engaging in apocalyptic terrorism like this is to claim responsibility for it, not to try and pin the blame on al-Qaeda or a related group. Otherwise, what exactly was accomplished by yesterday's atrocities? Not a further step towards Basque independence, that much is sure. As far as the lack of suicide bombers, at least one unconfirmed media report has stated that there was at least one and the investigation is still ongoing in this regard.
As for the ETA van being intercepted just 2 weeks ago, that actually argues AGAINST them being behind the attack, IMO. They aren't that terribly large an organization to begin with and their capabilities have been heavily degraded over the last several years thanks to Aznar's crackdowns. So I figure the intercepted van w/ explosives was likely their big plan for some election atrocities and that it was thwarted. The fact that the same kinds of explosives were found in of itself doesn't prove anything one way or another given that the type involved appears to be a commercial model.
With regard to France raising its terror alert, do you really think that al-Qaeda gives a damn as far as who opposed or supported the war in Iraq? Turkey more or less opposed it, but that didn't save them from the Istanbooms. More to the point, Ayman took the opportunity to rant on the French hijab ban in his latest audiotape.
For what it's worth, this is my own supposition, I am making no pretenses for it being the absolute truth.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/12/2004 8:49 Comments ||
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#13
...what exactly was accomplished by yesterday's atrocities? Not a further step towards Basque independence, that much is sure.
Proximity to the elections... Majority of Spaniards already hostile to Aznar's role in the WoT... Make the bomb look like Islamist work... Scare and/or enrage electorate... Backlash against Aznar and PP at the ballot box... Soft-on-terror left wing government elected... Too late (after election) - authorities pin blame on ETA... ETA resurgence...
Scroll down Iberian Notes to Why I am convinced ETA did it for John's (insider's) take. Ask yourself - right now, what have ETA to lose, and what have they to gain?
He also reports the authorities may have pictures of some of the perps caught in the act.
#14
"Not a further step towards Basque independence, that much is sure"
well bulldog seems to think that an Islamist attack hurts the PP, and that ETA wants PSOE to win, since theyre not as "hardline" as PP. Ive seen elsewhere someone say that ETA actually DOES want PP to win, since PSOE by reaching a peaceful settlement with the Basques would undercut ETA.
So its like, if youre the Real IRA, would you rather see Ian Paisley do well or David Trimble? Would you rather see the Tories win a UK election or Labour?? I think some folks here may be letting their ideological blinders ("the terrorists like the socialists") get in the way of strategic analysis.
I also agree with Dan, that it doesnt make sense to reduce AQ's agenda to Iraq.
#16
see, im one the folks who think that the Paleoterrorists tendency to boom in large number just when an Israeli Labour govt is facing reelection is NOT just coincidence. They set up a string of booms that knocked Peres out and basically elected Netanyahu in 1996. They unleased the second intifida in 2000, just before the Israeli election, insuring Baraks defeat and the election of Sharon. One of the reasons I dont take Pal complaints about "hardline Sharon" seriously - they basically elected him, for reasons that are not too hard to fathom.
Are you trying to compare Aznar to Ian Paisley over David Trimble? That's just nuts. No one in mainstream Euro politics can compare to Paisley. And if I was the Real IRA, I'd sure as hell prefer Labour over the Tories to be in UK government. The Lib Dems would be a dream, but that just ain't gonna happen. Haven't you noticed the governments' legion concessions to Republicanism since Blair came to office?
As for idelogical blinders, I think too many people here have forgotten that terrorism's been around in Europe since long before 9/11. Yes, an Islamic element may have been involved in yesterday's bombings, but it's far from a requirement, and the evidence for it at the moment is flimsy indeed. Have you read John's analysis on Iberian Notes?
#19
No one in mainstream Euro politics can compare to Paisley.
I heard Paisley speak to a largely hostile audience over 30 years ago and left the hall and thought to myself that I would never hear a better public speaker in my life. Its probably the only prediction I made at the stage in my life that came true.
I subsequently met and talked with the man and remain convinced he was the most talented person I have ever met in my life.
And to give you context I was strongly sympathetic to the republican position at the time.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/12/2004 9:52 Comments ||
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#20
i certainly didnt mean to say that Aznar was like Paisley. The point I was trying to make is that a hardline govt is NOT necessarily always something terrorists dislike, if it helps them gain versus there more moderate rivals. Yeah, I know Blairs made concessions. Now my question is, has that strengthened the Real IRA?
Yes I know terrorism predated 9/11 in Europe, and hasnt always been . I remember the Brigati Rossi and the Baader-Meinhof. I was repulsed that my some of my fellow New Yorkers sent money to the IRA. We also had non-Islamic terrorism in the US - do you remember Oklahoma City? we do.
But Im still trying to get my arms around ETA's motivations for doing this, at this time(which I know are obvious to you). We should all wait for further evidence, to be sure, but at this point it seems just as possible that this was Islamists, or ETA subcontracting to Islamists, as that it was a 100% ETA operation.
#21
I say we just blame the whole thing on both ETA and Al-Qaeda, and punish them both for it. Would either of these groups really be innocent of any wrong doing even if they weren't involved? They are both terrorist groups. Kill em' all!
Posted by: Lil Dhimmi ||
03/12/2004 10:18 Comments ||
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#22
"but it's far from a requirement, and the evidence for it at the moment is flimsy indeed"
evidence
1. a coordinated attack by numerous bombers, at a landmark building (the Atocha station) AQ's trademark. Yes ETA could be copying. But this is not that easy to pull off (despite some comments about how all you need is wristwatches)and ETA is apparently a wounded organization
2. Islamist orgs in Londonistan claiming credit on behalf of AQ, while ETA is silent. (yes, they could BOTH have reasons to shift blame to AQ)
3. The van with the Koran and the detonators (well yes, that could be a red herring planted by ETA or by some Islamists, to reinfore 2)
4. The date, on the anniversary of 9/11. (See 2 and 3)
The evidence for Islamists is far from flimsy. Of course ALL of it could be planted as part of a conspiracy to throw off the hunt. But barring evidence that it MUST have been ETA, and couldnt have been islamists (so far i only see the A. The use of a particular explosive, which is commercially available and B. The absence of suicide bombers, which is not confirmed yet, and is not probative, anyway) Occams Razor would suggest an Islamist attack as at least the working hypothesis.
#23
There is another explanation for that truck. It appears to have been stolen in February already. The tape found is one that helps "new muslims" to learn Qoran verses (by reciting them). That means it's meant for "beginners" (children or new converts. You'd think islamic terrorists are a bit more advanced in their "religion of peace".
The tape could simply belong to the owner of the stolen truck.
I'm still sticking to my "radical ETA faction theory". Although that doesn't exclude contacts with Islamic jihadis.
LH you raise a good point. The Baader Meinhof Group (later RAF) tried to "convince" the Germans into believing that they lived in a pseudo-totalitarian state. They did have their share of radical leftist supporters. But in the end people didn't buy it. The RAF failed in bombing Germany into a repressive state. In the end the RAF pretty much gave up and dissolved.
It's possible that ETA is at that point but a small radical faction isn't ready to concede failure and embraces the AQ methods now.
Hell the Basques enjoy more autonomy than the Bavarians!
Occam's Razor still has the ETA option as the simpliest... for now.
But it's true that Spain's famous judge Baltasar Garzón (who opposed Iraq) had warned Aznar not to join the coalition.
"Lo único que va a generar esta guerra injusta es el aumento de terrorismo integrista a medio y largo plazo...Su crecimiento en otros puntos, entre ellos España, es algo tan evidente como terrible y usted no quiere o no sabe verlo"
#24
There has been a 199th death: a toddler. His parents are missing and probably dead. I don't
know if this is a bad thing or a good thing since the suffering of their baby's death has been spared to them. May the ones who perpetrated this, may the ones who give them comfort, may the ones who "understand" them be hanged.
Pero colgarlos por los huevos. But hanged by the balls.
#25
There has been a 199th death: a toddler. His parents are missing and probably dead. I don't
know if this is a bad thing or a good thing since the suffering of their baby's death has been spared to them. May the ones who perpetrated this, may the ones who give them comfort, may the ones who "understand" them be hanged.
Pero colgarlos por los huevos. But hanged by the balls.
#27
ETA has just denied responsibility for the attack, through a Basque paper theyve used for statements in the past.
ETA has denied responsibility. An Islamic group has claimed responsibility. EVERYTHING else, about methods, motivations, etc is UNCLEAR, with alternative explanations possible either way, and with difficulties either way.
I still claim that while there are lots of possibilities, Occams dictates Islamist involvement as the working hypothesis.
#28
Tactically speaking, what would ETA have gained from escalating their campaign at this moment, right before the elections? Why would the ETA, which has discrete, identifiable territory that could be subject to retaliation by authorities, have decided that this was a good move to further their cause?
As for the argument thus far, why is it assumed that the ETA could be using Al Qaeda as a tool for plausible deniability, but the opposite (that Al Qaeda struck in a manner to sow dissension within Spain and fuel strikes against Basque separatists with the full knowledge that this terrorist attack might be blamed on ETA) has not been countenanced?
Young Muslims in the Netherlands are being recruited for armed terrorism missions against Western targets, the Dutch secret service warned today. In a note to parliament, the agency â known by its Dutch acronym AIVD - repeated its November 2002 warning that recruits are active in the Netherlands. âItâs known that some stayed in a training camp. Others are involved in supporting Islamic terrorism-related activities like arranging money and passports,â the agency said. âStill others are in turn trying to win over other potential recruits.â Since the terror attacks in the United States on September 11, 2001, 17 terrorism suspects have been tried in the Netherlands on the basis of information provided by the secret service, including 12 suspects accused of belonging to a recruitment ring. All were acquitted of major offences.
Y'don't think that might have something to do with the fact that the problem's continuing?
âIn the past year and a half, there was a noticeable decrease in the age of the group of young men susceptible to recruitment,â the AIVD said. âIn some groups of young Muslims, the wish to take part in jihad appears to be part of youth culture.â The agency said that some Islamic-interest Web sites frequented by young men appeared to be âfascinated with violence.â
Partly it's a religious thing. Partly it's due to the fact that teenies who've never seen a corpse are fascinated with death and heroism and all that hormone-related stuff...
âIt definitely canât be ruled out that some of these youths just want to make an impression on their peers with radical behaviour and statements,â the AIVD said.
That's what I just said...
The agency said it had also âestablished that some Muslim women, too, foster sympathetic feelings for the violent Islamic struggle. However, they donât play a prominent role in recruiting, as far as is known.â
Teeny babes are relegated for the most part to admiring the antic of the boys. It's a left over trait from when we were ground monkeys. Chimps and gorillas act about the same way. They settle down when they mature, usually. Occasionally humans do, too.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/12/2004 12:06:58 AM ||
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#1
Along those same lines, there was an interesting article in one of the big news magazines shortly after 9/11/01. The article talked about the difficulties that all the herd/pack type mammals (chimps, elephants, horses, dogs, humans etc.) have with their adolescent males. They get big and strong, and start threatening the monopoly that the older males have on the females. The solution in most cases is to ostracize the young males, let 'em go off on their own and duke it out with each other, until they have the smarts and strength to fight the dominant males. In fundo Muslim society, they just send 'em off to boomer school madrassah with visions of raisins dancing in their heads...
#2
Just for those that don't know, the Dutch ran Indonesia for a long time before the 1940s, and there is a significant Indonesian population in the Netherlands. It is at least conceivable that some of those have links with the folks in Aceh.
#3
"There's only two things in this world that I can't stand: people who are intolerant of other cultures....and the Dutch."
I just love that line.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
03/12/2004 2:51 Comments ||
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#4
I'm with you Rex. I've been one of the few on this blog to point out the dangers of the tulip conspiracy and it's impact (Dutch Reagan & Roosevelts for instance)on real Americans.
U.S. officials cited circumstantial evidence yesterday that Islamist terrorists may have been behind the bombings in Madrid, but cautioned it is too early to tell whether al Qaeda or one of its affiliates was responsible.
Well, they have taken credit for it...
The attacks, in which 10 bombs exploded in trains and stations along a commuter line in Spainâs capital city, bore several hallmarks of Osama bin Ladenâs network or its allies, including the synchronized nature of the explosions and the clear targeting of civilians, counterterrorism officials said. Spanish officials, who initially placed blame for the bombings on the Basque separatist group ETA, said later in the day that new lines of investigation were opened after police discovered a van with detonators and an audiotape of verses from the Koran. The vehicle was parked near a station where three of the targeted commuter trains had originated.
Sounds pretty Islamist to me...
In addition, a shadowy group affiliated with al Qaeda, the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades, sent e-mails to two London-based Arabic newspapers claiming responsibility for the bombings and warning that an attack against the United States is "90 percent" ready.
It's gonna come off February 2nd, y'know...
But U.S. officials cautioned that the group, which takes its name from a slain al Qaeda leader, has frequently claimed credit for attacks and events for which it is clearly not responsible, including the power failure that plunged New York City and much of the Northeast into darkness last summer. "This was a very well-planned and highly synchronized attack that targeted innocent civilians," said one U.S. counterterrorism official. "There are a lot of indicators here that indicate it could be a radical Islamist group. . . . But we are keeping our options open for the moment until we can compile more hard evidence." Officials with the CIA, FBI and other U.S. agencies said they are awaiting results of forensic tests and other analysis before reaching any firm conclusions. U.S. officials also said they are relying on information supplied by Spanish authorities in making assessments. "It is too soon to tell who did it," a senior U.S. intelligence official said.
Intelligence assessments of the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades vary, and some intelligence officials believe the group may exist in name only. One senior intelligence official said the group has no proven connection to bin Laden. It is not "a known terrorist organization," the official said, but rather an individual or group that has tried to take credit for other actions. The group claimed responsibility last year for the November bombings of two synagogues in Turkey and the August bombing of a Marriott hotel. In its e-mail yesterday to the al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper, the group also claimed it was behind Mondayâs attacks on a Masonic lodge in Istanbul. The letter, which dubbed the Madrid explosions "Operation Death Trains," called the attacks "a way to settle old accounts with Spain, crusader and ally of America in its war against Islam." The letter also warned that "the expected âWinds of Black Deathâ strike against America is now in its final stage."
Gonna give us plague, huh?
The senior U.S. intelligence official indicated that some of the early evidence found by Spanish authorities was inconclusive. Dynamite discovered in connection with the attacks, which was first labeled as being the same type used by ETA, is widely available commercially and has not been used by the Basque terrorist group for many years, the U.S. official said. The train bombings do not bear key similarities to past attacks by ETA, which usually provides a warning, kills comparably few people and primarily targets Spanish government officials and facilities.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/12/2004 12:04:14 AM ||
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#1
Dynamite discovered in connection with the attacks, which was first labeled as being the same type used by ETA, is widely available commercially and has not been used by the Basque terrorist group for many years
The explosives used were the only real (supposedly) evidence that it was ETA. I think a couple of people owe me an apology after I was attacked for pointing last night (for me) that the rush to blame ETA had more to do with Euro need for it not to have it be Islamofascists even though this looked like a jihadi atrocity.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/12/2004 0:17 Comments ||
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#2
The folks in the media are certainly going to significant links to "award credit" to Islamic Fascist terrorists for terror attacks described as punishment to Spain for her alliance with America. It is almost obscenely, lustfully, fawningly obsessive how the media is arguing the case for al-Qa'ida. It is almost as though the global free media desperately wants al-Qa'ida to be the bombers out of hope such a link will somehow adversely effect President Bush. The current doings of the dominant media are more sickening to behold than usual. I await presentation of FACT before coming to a conclusion. Meanwhile, Usama and his minions bask in the glow of billions of dollars in free publicity.
#3
I quite agree, Phil, and I got attacked with you for the same reasons.
The "guilty" know who they are.
Not that we get any real joy for being right, but it's just not fun to be attacked for calm, cool reasoning!
I like sharing your company, though, PB!
#4
Phil B: We are not privy to the evidence gathered up to now. I variously read Spanish authorities had collected intel a major ETA attack was coming from a younger and more radicalized faction within the ETA, finger prints linked bombing evidence to known ETA terrorists, an ETA-linked van was recently found packed with explosives of the type thought to be used in the Thursday bombings, and ETA-linked backpacks similar to those thought to be used in Thursday's bombing were found in train stations in December.
#5
Garrison I don't pretend that I know who is responsible. All I was doing was pointing out the rush to blame ETA was striking, including the UNSC resolution. If were to make a list of organizations known to perform coordinated attacks on transportation. I have a list of one - AQ. If were to make a list of organizations who systematically attack public transportation I would have three. Two of which are now defunct. The other is paleo boomers operating under various brand names.
Your welcome Jennie!
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/12/2004 0:46 Comments ||
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#6
Jennie: It does not take a genius to GUESS any terror attack anywhere in the world might be the work of Islamic Fascists. You were right about what based on what? You can draw conclusions based only on frequently inaccurate reports put forth in the media. You are not an expert on terrorism. When was the last time al-Qaida used dynamite placed in backpacks? Reports claim a van with detonators and a tape of Koranic verses was found on the FRONTSEAT of a stolen truck. Gee. That seems a bit too obvious. Almost as though a member of ETA planted the "evidence" to throw the authorities off their trail. ETA has murdered 850 people. What's a few hundred more to such vermin? I await the FACTS.
#7
Garrison, Phil B and I were basing our opinions not only on the blast news reports but on the many news stories we've read in our lifetimes (I'm 47,don't know about Phil) here at RB, at other fine blogs and of course, publications of all sorts, plus reading books and analysis of events based on all of our collective personal knowledge and experience--that enough for you?
And for the record, I have not one, but 2 Masters degrees.
That enough official book learning for you?
For our comments and reasoning, read the posts on the original Madrid blast story yesterday here at RB.
#8
Phil B: "Not that we get any real joy from being right," posted Jennie. Replied Phil B., "Your welcome Jennie!" How many çoordinated attacks on public transportation can you attribute to al-Qaida? How many can you attribute to Hamas, Islamic Jihad, al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigrade, and dozens of others that have not been in the news of late? What law of nature mandates a terror group to act only as it has acted previously? Perhaps ETA is learning from its comrade terrorist vermin how best to be heard in the global media. I give more weight to the Spanish authorities than unnamed sources in the media and posters to message boards. I await the FACTS.
#9
Garrison I think you are out of line. The fact is Jennie and I were 12 hours ahead on of what is now the consensus view. I just heard on the BBC that the Spanish Interior Ministry now thinks AQ is more likely than ETA.
What blogs do well is seperate the facts/evidence from the media's spin and biases and see what other interpretations fit. Thats all we did.
BTW, I have more than a little direct experience of terrorism.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/12/2004 1:11 Comments ||
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#10
For what it's worth, I doubt it is ETA. Wanting a Quebec type autonomy or sovereign statehood is a far cry from killing noncombatants (as defined by the West). The only really active group I know of that defines noncombatants (as defined by the West) as combatants is the islamofascists. That is to say, only AQ-type islamofascists are this malignant and evil, IMHO.
#11
I have one master's degree, Jennie. And I know "master's" requires an apostrophe. Right away I have to question the relevance of your "official book learning". And over the years you have read news stories! Impressive. Then you should know news reports are frequently inaccurate. Very few people with "official book learning" will draw conclusions from news reports. I recall folk with "official book learning" immediately concluding al-Qa'ida was responsible for the anthrax attacks initiated in 2001. And the DC SNIPER ATTACKS had to be perpetrated by a white man who was a loner with connections to the militia movement. Given any individual can reason al-Qa'ida might have been involved in the Thursday bombings, what precisely were you RIGHT about? I await the FACTS.
#12
Phil B: I heard of the bombing at or about 3:30 am Thursday from CNN International. The speculation THEN was al-Qa'ida might have been involved. My first thought was al-Qa'ida could be involved. There is nothing special about you guessing al-Qa'ida might have been responsible for the bombing. You are not ahead of any curve. You need to check your ego. As for the BBC: That is a "reputable" source. There is nothing OUT OF LINE about cautioning people to refrain from jumping to conclusions based on news reports. I await the FACTS.
#13
Clarification: The global consensus view -- opposed only by the Spanish authorities -- at 3:30 am (CDT) was al-Qa'ida was responsible for the bombings of the Spanish trains. I do not know what the consensus view was prior to 3:30 am (CDT) as I was dozing, but I suspect the very first news report hitting the international media included speculation al-Qa'ida might have been involved. I await the FACTS.
#14
While Garrison is awaiting the FACTS, I'd like to thank Phil and Jennie for their comments on this atrocity both yesterday and today. Your analysis was well thought out and, as is becoming increasingly clear, accurate. Your posts lived up to the Rantburg tag-line "Civil, well-reasoned discourse."
Posted by: Scott ||
03/12/2004 1:46 Comments ||
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#15
Given any individual can reason al-Qa'ida might have been involved in the Thursday bombings, what precisely were you RIGHT about?
Go back and read my first post and then yesterday's thread and when you in possession of the FACTS come back. BTW I watched the BBC (international) coverage and don't recall any mention of AQ last night. I do recall a whole procession of people saying with complete certainty that it was ETA.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/12/2004 1:51 Comments ||
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#16
It occurred to me there was a coordinated attack on the Japanese subway system. Presumably, Phil B. will add the organization responsible to his list of ONE organization that has carried out a coordinated terrorist attack on transportation. Of course, I do recall the Chechyns carrying out coordinated attacks on Russia transportation with two or three backpackers toting bombs earlier this year. I just have to wonder how much of a terrorism expert someone is when his list of organizations that have carried out coordinated attacks on transportation is limited to AQ. It seems to me the coordinated attack on transportation is all the rage among terrorist organizations of late: A Japanese cult, Palestinian terrorist organizations, Islamist organizations, Chechyns and so on. I do not believe it takes a genius to argue al-Qa'ida or ETA or some other group is responsible for the terror attacks in Spain. It takes a civil, well-reasoned individual to resist coming to conclusions as he awaits the FACTS.
#17
Garrison, you're not being or having very much fun, are you? Now, IMO I think it was the AQ, for sure:
March 11, 2004 --> 2 years and 6 months after
Sept. 11, 2001
3 is 6 away from 9
Somebody needs to do a psychological profile on BL if he is not protein paste, and his most likely reserve command structure if he is. This is both anal and infantile, and my guess (accordingly) would be whoever conceived of and planned the 911 event/date.
#18
Phil B: I do claim to be RIGHT when I state more than one organization has perpetrated coordinated attacks on transportation. Your assertion AQ was the only such organization was and is WRONG. As for what you recall of BBC coverage, I am not sure what your point may be. I would be astonished to learn that the first thought coursing through the minds of one billion informed people on hearing of a mass casualty bombing anywhere in the West was other than, "Al-Qa'ida". It could have been al-Qa'ida. It could have been ETA. It could have been the folk claiming to have planted bombs on French railway lines reports of which surfaced last week. It could have been some other organization. I await the FACTS.
Posted by: Rodney King ||
03/12/2004 2:22 Comments ||
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#20
Cingold: It is great fun for ME not jumping to conclusions. I am not ready to accept that every terror bombing occurring on the 11th day of a month is al-Qa'ida related. Is it possible every bombing for which al-Qa'ida is believed to have perpetrated from 12 September 2001 to 10 March 2004 did not occur on the 11th day of the month? Spooooky. I await the FACTS.
#22
First off...a very good thread. 2nd, thanks Jennie for the reality check regarding the Kerry chunks....you know of which I speak. On the surface...what does ETA gain from this? It doesn't fit their M.O. Their targets have usually been specific in nature...i.e. individuals in position of power. This was a well coordinated strike. We all need to wait until the facts are in on this. In the meantime, dust off the MOABs.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
03/12/2004 2:35 Comments ||
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#23
Spooooky. I await the FACTS.
To catch a crook, you have to learn the mind of a crook. I imagine the same is true of malignant, vile islamofascists. Start with some observations, analyze them, and then synthesize your analyses (then rinse, and repeat) -- it's called critical thinking, and it's fun . . . It is great fun for ME not jumping to conclusions.
Who is jumping to conclusions? I was just thinking out loud . . .
#24
Phil B: You are a terrorism expert with significant knowledge of coordinated attack on transportation. I am recalling yet another coordinated terrorist attack on transportation that occurred way back before I was born. BLACK SEPTEMBER rings a bell. Four or five hijacked airliners come to mind. Could my vague recollection be linked to a coordinated attack on transportation perpetrated when Usama was but a wee spout?
#25
Garrison, I officially crown you RB's newest, most tedious troll and laziest.
Here's your crown of TP and Heinz pickles!
But I DEMAND the return of Muck4doo!!
If we are to have a resident troll here, no-one out-trolls the Muckster.
#26
Cingold you wrote, "Now, IMO I think it was the AQ, for sure...." Cingold you wrote, "Who is jumping to conclusions?" YOU! Haaahaha.....Jennie: It has been my experience when INTELLIGENT people show up at a message board and question the assertions of regulars, folk like you have nothing much to offer other than calling the individual a TROLL. There is nothing more TEDIOUS and LAZIER than namecalling. You do not impress. I await the FACTS.
All of you might be correct. This younger, more radicalized faction of the ETA may in fact have trained with al Qaeda. ETA might be doing errands, like moving explosives around, on al Qaeda's behalf. More here.
Some of these leftest terror groups need a patron. The USSR is dead and gone. Carlos the Jackal has converted to Islam. And check your medieval maps. After all, Naverre was never conquered by the Muslims.
Posted by: Pete Stanley ||
03/12/2004 2:55 Comments ||
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#28
Excellent posting, Pete. Motivations and alliances and events are rarely black and white. I have read articles previously on the emerging anti-globalist, anti-Western, anti-capitalist Red/Green/Brown alliance. Thank you for the links.
#29
The key is: if people think is ETA there will be a backslash against those who are perceived as soft pr friendly to terrorists. But if people think it is Al Quaida there will be a backslash againt those who involved Spain in Irak ie the same people who brought ETA to its knees.
That is why I strongly believe that a not completely stupid ETA would try to make the operation politically profitable. Like by remaining silent and planting clues pointing to Islamic terrorism.
Now about this not being the MO of ETA, there was a time in the 50s and 60s when ETA was a honorable organization who never went for innocent targets and who, when collecting money, made clear to prospects that people not sharing their ideas were free to not pay. But these times are long over.
The facts are:
1) ETA has tried to cause a 9/11 in 2000. So much for ETA does not try to cause mass casualties.
2) Police has been intercepting vast quantities of explosives aiming for Madrid during the last weeks. And the people who were shipping them were Basque not Arabs
3) Al Quaida mount suicide operations. Its people are indoctrinated that this a great way to get sex for eternity. Here we have had 13 bombs and no one has remained to claim his 72 virgins.
#30
JFM: Good posting. The news account of detonators and a tape with Koranic verses reportedly on the frontseat of a van at the nexis of the attack appears too obvious. The Spanish terror attack occurring precisely 911 days -- as reported in the blogosphere -- after America's Bloody Tuesday seems too obvious on the face of it. TERROR MIND THINKING: Asnar has been tough on the ETA. There is an election on Sunday. Asnar's political alliance might be harmed politically by an al-Qaida attack due to his support for the unpopular liberation of Iraq. A weakened or distracted Asnar might releave pressure on ETA. TERRORISTS tend to be STUPID. By using mostly Saudi terrorists, Usama tried to pin 9/11 on Saudi Arabia hoping President Bush would attack Saudi Arabia. I do believe the perpetrators will be identified shortly and the perpetrators will know BACKLASH. I await the FACTS.
#32
I still put my money on ETA, and that truck with the Qoran doesn't change much.
The attack bears the handwriting of a radicalized ETA faction that has learned a few things from islamist terror.
So what about the truck?
1) Could have been placed by ETA to confuse investigation
2) Could have been placed by some Muslim group to claim the attack
3) Could have been placed by shady Spanish political figures (leftist rather) to steer the election their way
4) Could have been placed by CIA/Mossad to get Europe more involved in WOT (/sarcasm off on the last one, please)
All I'm saying is: Jumping to conclusions now is premature. But there is a pattern of terrorist organisation going from very small, targeted attacks to indiscriminate bloodshed.
This happened with the Palis, happened with other groups when they saw they were getting nowhere. Could as well have happened to some etarras.
It has happened to nation warfare, too. Remember that Germany started to bomb England when it lost the war over British airspace.
Europe hasn't closed her eyes to jihadi terror. We all know that it's going to happen here. The Strasbourg Christmas market attack was foiled in the last minute. Would have been a carnage.
#33
Listening to BBC Radio 4 this morning, the guy from Al-Quds who received a letter from Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades on behalf of AQ sounded like all his Eids had come at once... just hope he and his family are on the tube when they blow that up.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/12/2004 4:29 Comments ||
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#34
What I object to in the news reports prematurely linking al-Qa'ida to the bombing rampage in Spain is they ultimalely seek to pin the blame for the terror attacks on President Bush for waging his "silly" war on terrorism and the state sponsors of terrorism. The reporters and commentators and news readers imply, "If only President Bush had turned the other cheek after receiving the slap on 11 September 2001 and forgiven America's enemies, all those people killed or injured in Spain on Thursday would be alive and well today."
#35
I have been watching the Spanish TV roundtables. A journalist claims to have interviewed some of the wounded who told her they noticed a guy "forgetting" his rucksack. The journalist did not mention peple telling her the perpetrators looking Arab. Notice that this is not a proof, only a slight hint.
#36
Same here in the Uk - if it was AQ then it's all Blair's fault for supporting Bush in Irag. Gives the anti-war crew something to bleat about. ETA trying to shit stir methinks.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/12/2004 5:05 Comments ||
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#37
Garrison,
When was the last time al-Qaida used dynamite placed in backpacks?
The first Bali bomb in the Sari nightclub was a backpack bomb. When patrons from the clubs evacuated to the street, the main car bomb was detonated
Posted by: ed ||
03/12/2004 5:45 Comments ||
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#38
As long as everyone else is taking a punt, so will I.
I think it was ETA with prossibly some help from some Muslim group like Al-Qa'ida.
The material used is ETA. The Spanish police claim that ETA was planning a major attack for some time. The timing is very close to the spanish elections.
If Al-Qa'ida had done it we would have seen a sucide bomber involved somewhere. We would also have received some earlier cryptic warning. Also generally Al-Qa'ida does not take responsibilty for the operations. When they do its only after a long period of time.
#39
PS. I reserve judgement on whether it was ETA, AQ, or a combination of terrorist orgs. The Spanish have ETA culprits transporting explosives and the Dec. attempted train bombing. I hope they get interrogated with extreme prejudice. There are too many lives at stake to play Mr. Nice Cop with such vermin. As far as I am concerned, their lives are forfeit the moment they joined the the terrorist org.
Posted by: ed ||
03/12/2004 5:54 Comments ||
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#40
Oh Howard, this isn't Blair's Fault, or Bush's or Kerry's when he's elected President (....lol).
This has been around for a while, it's just that the means and manners of ALL Terrorist/Murderers (I am coming to detest the phrase, "militants,"), is becoming more virulent, more vicious, far more deadly.
It doesn't matter if it was ETA or Al-Q or some Algerian splinter group...they are all cut from the same cloth...they move freely among us...and they intend to kill us.
What I find interesting is the twisting that so many people are doing to avoid there being shown any possible Arabic connection. Of course we must wait for the facts...and yet all this foolery about the Koranic tapes and detenators being left behind as just being too stupid to be Jahadi...is strange.
It bespeaks more of the writer's large emotional investment in maintaining a lost innocence than any seeking for the truth of the matter. (My business is fixing things when people do the most incredibly stupid stuff...and I like people...but doing stupid things is the norm for humankind not the exception...lol).
Leaving behind detinators and tapes? Sounds just about like what a 9/11 hijacker did leaving a rental car at the airport...Stupid? Not really, this is how people behave under intense stress.
We are all losing our innocence. It is Europe's trun...this will be a painful process.
I don't feel I need to "apologize" to anyone who assumed right off that this had to be done by al Qaeda. As others have posted, there are plenty of other groups who can pull of this sort of atrocity and have done so in the past.
Now - it might indeed be an al-Q affiliate that did this. Or it might not.
Or, most ominously, Europe may be seeing the merger or at least close cooperation of previously unrelated terror networks, as may be happening in South America.
I'll reaffirm what I wrote yesterday: I think it's a huge mistake to assume that all violence of this sort is perpetrated only by the network of terror groups, some more closely linked and some more loosely so, that call themselves al-Qaeda. If we were to think that, then we might think the proper response is a law enforcement effort.
But if we realize that the stability and democratic institutions of the civilized world are under attack, we will properly treat this as war, and respond appropriately.
Kudos to Jennie etc. if you turn out to be right - but "owe you an apology"?? Ummm .... time to take yourselves a little less seriously guys. [smile]
Robin, with the obligatory multiple graduate degrees, none of which are in counter-terrorism
#42
I vote for ETA too, or more likely, some younger fanatical members who have grown in prominence since a large portion of the ETA leadership have been arrested.
Virtually every attack Al Qaeda has carried out since it was created have been suicide bombings, even when they weren't necessary for the success of the attacks themselves. According to media accounts i've read, the bombs were placed by people who left the trains before they went off. That sounds like the actions of someone who didn't want to die.
I think that the inspiration for this attack probably came from Al Qaeda, since their brand of nihilistic slaughter is pretty popular with extremists of all types.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
03/12/2004 6:28 Comments ||
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#43
The issue yesterday was that a number of people, both here at Rantburg and prominent politicans, were assuming it could only be ETA. They were rushing to conclusions in the absence of good evidence and the real issue was the Euros need for ETA to be responsible, because the alternative is that they have to do something about their unassimiliated moslem minorities, and that requires junking large amounts of ideological baggage.
Posted by: Phil B ||
03/12/2004 7:16 Comments ||
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#44
Traveller- We are all losing our innocence. It is Europe's turn...this will be a painful process. -
Hang on a min.. We've had the IRA trying to blow us up here for the past thirty years. I lost my innocence when the IRA tried to blow up my neighbourhood ten years ago.
My comment that it's Blair's fault was intended to br I-R-O-N-I-C. Still got my money on ETA though :)
Regards, H
Posted by: Howard UK ||
03/12/2004 7:23 Comments ||
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#45
There was a terrorism expert on CNN claiming the bombers could not have been ETA due to the bombs having gone of in working class neighborhoods. The Marxist ETA would never bomb working people. Abject stupidity. A terrorist willing to leave a bomb to go off in a public place does not give a damn who she kills. And the bombs were not planted in neighborhoods. They were planted on commuter trains and -- according to some reports -- in train stations.
#46
I think we're seeing the very ominous trend of various terror networks cooperating, despite having differing ideologies / rationales.
Paul Moloney's post on ETA buying Stingers and getting training from al Qaeda shows that we can no longer assume what any given group will or won't do.
#48
The CNN commenter has only to read Arana's (the ideologue of Basque nationalism) racist texts to understand how little a non-Basque live matters to a hardcore Etarra. Besides since when marxists have cared for the working class? One only has to remind the woeful state of the Sanitary Corps in the Red Army (leading to the death of hundreds of thousands of soldiers members of the working class from relatively minor wounds during WWII, one only has to remind how the Soviets cleared minefields: by sending members of the working class into them.
Eta not willing to harm members of the working class because they are marxists? Only on CNN.
#49
I personally don't give a shit whether this attack was the work of AQ or ETA, both groups are terrorists and need to be pursued and eliminated. The argument above is like arguing whether a man who has been shot died from blood loss or trauma...it doesn't matter, he's still dead. And the shooter needs to be found and brought to justice (e.g. EXECUTED).
#50
mjh: And the shooter needs to be found and brought to justice (e.g. EXECUTED).
Spain has no death penalty. Not having a death penalty is a condition of EU membership. Will this nudge the Euros into re-introducing the hangman's noose? I wouldn't hold my breath...
#53
Yes it could be Al Queda. Or maybe not.Time will tell. Howard btw maybe the IRA would leave you alone if Blair returned Northern Ireland to its rightful owners. Ireland united not divided,in case anyone is wondering I was born in Southern Ireland. I digressed there I know but terrorism is a symptom of a much more complex issue like colonialism and invasion of nations.
#54
Terrorism is the deliberate massacre of civilian men, wome and children to achieve a political aim.
Period.
If it is a 'symptom' of anything, it is of the terrorist's egotistic stance that his belief and any real or imagined grievances are more important than the lives of ordinary people, whom he is more than happy to maim, kill or drive into constant fear.
Scum.
Posted by: no excuse ||
03/12/2004 12:24 Comments ||
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#55
Antiwar: Why don't you contact the relatives of these people and tell them why they deserved violent deaths. Some Protestant, some Catholic. Have a good look at their faces then come back here and reiterate your support for the men who murdered them.
You apologise for terrorists and you are beneath contempt. You are a cunt.
#57
Bulldog you suck syphilitic penises. Right I never said I supported terrorists/ism ,I merely said we need to look at the cause of it not just the symptoms. BTW if I apologise for terrorists why am I against Bush? If I were a terrorist I would think he is a good president which I dont.
#58
Antiwar, Bulldog is right.
There is no "cause" for terrorist murder except that the terrorists are EVIL.
"Why do they hate us?" Who the hell cares?!
They either need to get over it and put down their arms or prepare to meet "Allah."
End of story.
President Bush is an outstanding CoC and terrorists fear him which is as it should be.
Years ago I had a girlfriend from Galway. She was cute as a button, smart as a whip, and Catholic as the Pope but the one time I asked her about the IRA her only comment was "bloody bunch of murderers." She knew it, I know it, and you know it too.
A soldier only fights other soldiers, killing when he must and sparing innocent life wherever and whenever he can. Terrorists murder people indiscriminately. They kill children, soldiers, and civilians with an equal disregard for human life, often even their own. Some people like to call terrorists "freedom fighters" but true freedom fighters, like for example George Washington, are soldiers. The terrorists of the IRA are not. It's such a simple concept that I often have a hard time understanding why some people don't grasp it. I suspect that you would be one of those people
Oh, and I don't think the terrorists (or their apologists) like our president very much at all. If they did, why would they continue to endorse John Kerry? He's already got Islamic Jihad's vote!
#61
The train bombing COULD be ETA's attempt to weaken the government of Spain (i.e. the act was geared to increase dissatisfaction among the general population for Spain's association with US re: Iraq--but then, the Spaniards aren't exactly the French, or are they??? re: ETA). Or it COULD be AQ, OR a hybrid just "doing their thing" and feeling "big" (not) about it (i.e. the truly emasculated ones and their followers exercising personal pathologies at the expense of the innocent). My bet is on the Islamics--it just has that âIâm an Arab, hear me roarâ feel to it. My second choice would be an âIâll scratch your back/you scratch mineâ Islamic alliance with the ETA (thank you rkb--the world IS getting more and more unpredictable and weird). Time will tell. If it is ETA, they certainly arenât taking any credit for their âspectacular successâ which means either it wasnât them, or it was, and that theyâre after an indirect political goal as mentioned.
GARRISON: Ah . . . the ever-elusive "FACTS"--hard to come by at times--so many players. Iâm with you, though. Awaiting the FACTS. I like facts. Iâd like the facts about this incident and a lot of other things, too. But, Iâm probably in for a long wait. Keep us posted if you hear anything. And calm down, okay? Everyone is just voicing opinions here, and so far, no one has the âFACTSâ --at least that we know of (except those that perpetrated the crime.) I liked your posting #34. âALARM! ALARM! BIG BAD GB!!!â Itâs all HIS fault! Vote J.F.K. (not) Kerry! . . . signed, The American Amoral-for-the-most-part Socialist Media Machine.
ANTIWAR: Sure, everything has a "cause and effect," and perspectives control interpretations of political events and history. But you betray either your true loyalties, or your confusion, when you harp like a marxist about "colonialism" and "invasion" as some kind of purported explanation (or is it justification?) for the macabre work of todayâs terrorists. Would you be willing to be consistent and say, then, that the US also is justified for seeking to take out the multinational terrorists for INVADING New York City and Washington D.C. on 9/11, with the stated purpose of COLONIZING the world for Islam? Is it okay with you if WE fight back to defend ourselves against their oppression and tyranny--the unfair imposition of their will on us? Or did the US somehow deserve the attacks, as âgood olâ boy Billâ claimed? If you are a political/moral relativist, you would HAVE to say that any and all of us who oppose terrorism are "freedom fighters" and any and all of the terrorists are also "freedom fighters"--that perspective is the only constant, and nobody is in the right. They killed our people, and itâs understandable--and visa versa--or was it that we killed them first and theyâre going to kill us back, or--who started it anyway? OR, you'd have to come clean about your own philosophical underpinnings, motivations, and political opinions/aims. In other words, either there is a (albeit complex) foundation for what's right and wrong in the world regarding war ( and you have a motive and opinion which you havenât shared), or it's every âfreedom fighterâ for him(her)self, and may the best win (who do YOU think should win, antiwar? Which warriors do you support?) I think America âfor all its faults,â and itâs allies, should win at this point in history. If you doubt it, try living in an Islamic or Marxist state, WITHOUT being one of the rich power mongers, or a political manager, or a woman. Just a word about the terrorists--they are black and white thinkers to the extreme. Did you know that? And why is it that they never focus on US military targets? If you donât know, I do: These clowns used to tell me that they want average âAmericansâ to ârise upâ against their government and demand redress for the grievances against the Arab people, blah, blah, blah . . . They believe that if they keep blowing us up, that we will get fed up with being killed and have a revolution to adopt a new government favorable to them or better yet, an Islamic brand of socialism. Interesting, too, that the âArab peopleâ (i.e. the terrorists) also never focus on their OWN governments and problems. Itâs SO much easier to blame the US. And they become so popular among their peers. Not to mention that thereâs a lot of much money to be made going ape sh-t against the US. Plus, they get to spend some quality time out of their nappy countries. The REAL AND FINAL political/personal aim ( and it IS just this simple--ACCORDING TO THEM) is to overthrow or weaken America so that they can get the Jews out of Palestine. Period.
DG: Sick little games for sick little minds--full of themselves and a few unmentionable other things . . .
The author is a former Indian intelligence chief whose writings have been posted here before.
Who could have been responsible for the bomb blasts at three Madrid railway stations which have killed over 190 innocent civilians? ETA, the Basque separatist organisation, or the International Islamic Front formed by Osama bin Laden in 1998 and presently co-ordinated by the Lashkar-e-Taiba of Pakistan? The Lashkar has sleeper cells in the UK, which could operate anywhere in Europe.
The timing of the blasts just before the general election in Spain points the needle of suspicion at ETA, which had used improvised explosive devices effectively in the past and had not hesitated to target innocent civilians -- for example, in the June 1987 attack at a Barcelona supermarket which killed 21 shoppers. It has been reported that while openly blaming the ETA for the Madrid explosions, the Spanish authorities have not ruled out the possibility of this being a reprisal attack by jihadi terrorist elements for the Spanish governmentâs support to the US and UK for their invasion and occupation of Iraq and for sending Spanish troops to Iraq, which were the target of attacks by International Islamic Front elements last year, resulting in fatal casualties. ETA itself has not so far claimed responsibility for the blasts. While it is a ruthless organisation, it had not come to notice for such co-ordinated attacks, which must have involved the use of large quantities of explosives, more than the ETA was known to have access to.
Madrid has a large number of immigrants of Moroccan origin, many of them sympathetic to bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Moroccan components of Al Qaeda and the International Islamic Front participated in some terrorist strikes, the last of them in Casablanca in Morocco last year. Apart from Spainâs role in Iraq, its close co-operation with the US in the hunt for Al Qaeda agents has also earned it the wrath of Al Qaeda and the International Islamic Front.
Other countries too have been targeted by bin Laden -- the UK, France, Italy, Germany, Australia and West Asian countries co-operating with the US. Why should they choose Spain at the present moment? Most probably because there were gaps in physical security there and any terrorist would be tempted to take advantage of such gaps. These are still speculative theories at present. One has to await concrete evidence before coming to a definitive conclusion.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/12/2004 12:02:10 AM ||
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#1
Does it really matter? Find the terrorists, any and all terrorists and kill them. ETA, AQ, it does not matter. They want to kill? Kill them first.
Posted by: Ben ||
03/12/2004 7:13 Comments ||
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Hat tip LGF. EFL.
The government is accusing a one-time journalist and Congressional aide of secretly becoming a paid Iraqi intelligence agent before trying to influence her distant cousin â the White House chief of staff â on U.S. policy. Eep.
Charges brought Thursday by federal prosecutors in Manhattan against 41-year-old Susan Lindauer hinted at Hollywood-style espionage with packages left in what the prosecutorâs office described as prearranged "dead drop" operations in Baltimore. Dead drop, eh?
But the defendant told WBAL-TV outside the Baltimore FBI office that prosecutors were mistaken in charging her with conspiring to act as an unregistered agent of the Iraqi Intelligence Service and with engaging in prohibited financial transactions with the Iraqi government. "Iâm an anti-war activist and Iâm innocent," she said after her arrest in her hometown of Takoma Park, Md. "I did more to stop terrorism in this country than anybody else. I have done good things for this country. I worked to get weapons inspectors back to Iraq when everyone else said it was impossible." In court, Lindauer was relaxed and smiling as she faced charges that carry a potential penalty of 25 years in prison. She declined to speak afterward, as did two court-appointed defense lawyers. Only 25?
She was released to a halfway house in Baltimore, where U.S. Magistrate Judge Susan Gauvey ordered a psychiatric evaluation and said she can be released as soon as bond is posted for her $500,000 bail.
"Bailiff, check her for lunacy!"
The indictment said she accepted $10,000 for working for the Iraqi Intelligence Service from 1999 to 2002, including payments for lodging at the Al-Rashid Hotel in Baghdad and expenses during meetings in New York City with Iraqi agents. Viqi Shesh of Kuat!
The government portrayed the agency as a spy nest responsible for foreign intelligence collection, counterintelligence, covert actions and terrorist operations including the attempted assassination of former President Bush. Only 25 years?
The indictment makes no mention of Lindauerâs congressional staff work. She was not directly charged with espionage. Oh.
What would the indictment have to do with her congressional staff work? Or was she being indicted for that?
According to the indictment, Lindauer delivered a letter "to the home of a United States government official" on Jan. 8, 2003, in which she described her access to members of dictator Saddam Husseinâs regime "in an unsuccessful attempt to influence United States policy." The U.S. official was not identified. But a government official, speaking on condition on anonymity, said the recipient of the letter was White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card, a distant cousin of Lindauer. "Wonât you do this for a relative?"
"Get stuffed, beauzeau."
White House spokesman Scott McClellan said that the last time Card recalls seeing or talking to Lindauer was during January 2001 inaugural events. McClellan said the FBI interviewed Card about his contact with Lindauer and that Card cooperated fully. Card told the FBI that Lindauer had tried to contact him on behalf of the former regime several times. The indictment did not specify a motive.
Posted by: Steve from Relto ||
03/12/2004 1:03:09 PM ||
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#1
All the best "anti-war activists" use dead-drops these days, I guess. Funny, that used to be a hallmark of "tradecraft", but things change, huh?
#2
This is treason, she was hoping to help insurgents kill Americans AFTER Saddam had been deposed (that's what the FBI sting contacted her about). They should make an example of her.
Hangings too good for her, burnings too good for her, she should be chopped into little bity pieces and buried alive!
#3
If you've ever been to Takoma Park Maryland, you know this woman is pretty typical of the inhabitants of that place. They were anti deterrence in the cold war, so much so that other Marylanders referred to them as the People's Republic of Takoma Park. They once adopted a sister city in the Soviet Union which turned out to be a slave labor camp city.
#4
Michael Medved is dishing up the goods on Miss Lindauer on his show right now( its worse than even I thought!):
www.krla870.com
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
03/12/2004 16:16 Comments ||
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#5
Post a transcript of that part latter on Frank.
Posted by: Charles ||
03/12/2004 17:03 Comments ||
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#6
We had our fill of her dad John Lindauer in the governor's race in 1998 in Alaska. Incomplete campaign declarations about money from his campaign, esp loans from his wife. After that incident, they moved out of state. Heh heh.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/12/2004 19:15 Comments ||
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#7
we were looking for you yesterday paul! Once we googled this chick, we came across all the info on the alaskas govenors race with lindauer.
check yesterdays posts on susan lindauer on the matter.
Posted by: frank martin ||
03/12/2004 22:04 Comments ||
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On March 15, 1995, by Executive Order 12957, the President declared a national emergency with respect to Iran pursuant to the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701- 1706) to deal with the unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security, foreign policy, and economy of the United States constituted by the actions and policies of the Government of Iran, including its support for international terrorism, efforts to undermine the Middle East peace process, and acquisition of weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them. On May 6, 1995, the President issued Executive Order 12959 imposing more comprehensive sanctions to further respond to this threat, and on August 19, 1997, the President issued Executive Order 13059 consolidating and clarifying the previous orders.
Because the actions and policies of the Government of Iran continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security, foreign policy, and economy of the United States, the national emergency declared on March 15, 1995, must continue in effect beyond March 15, 2004. Therefore, in accordance with section 202(d) of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d)), I am continuing for 1 year the national emergency with respect to Iran. Because the emergency declared by Executive Order 12957 constitutes an emergency separate from that declared on November 14, 1979, by Executive Order 12170, this renewal is distinct from the emergency renewal of November 2003. This notice shall be published in the Federal Register and transmitted to the Congress.
#1
George, feel free to end the National emergency by frying a few black turbans.
Better yet let the spooks stir them up and have their own yutes do it.
#2
Good catch, Chuck!
(I caught this at the White House website last night, too.)
Notice how Clinton was all over this situation...but you get the feeling that in President Bush's competent hands, it means something a little more--shall we say?--hard-core.
AMERICAN soldiers in Iraq will this month be armed with a stun gun that uses a babyâs high-pitched scream to bring enemies to their knees. Bhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Sorry
The "Secret Scream" gun fires sonic "bolts" across distances as far as 300m at up to 145db, with results ranging from excruciating agony to permanent deafness - or even death after a prolonged burst. The weapon consists of a large megaphone on an armoured vehicle, aimed by a computer. It will be used to control rioters and target gunmen.
The Pentagon reportedly made an order for a prototype of similar weapons last July. They visited American Technology Corporation, run by Woody Norris, who is a pioneer in ultrasound technology. "(For) most people, even if they plug their ears, it will produce the equivalent of an instant migraine. Some people, it will knock them on their knees," he said. The device emits so-called "sonic bullets" along a narrow, intense beam up to 145 decibels, 50 times the human threshold of pain. The baby scream can be projected at such high levels that it can literally leave a victimâs skull vibrating, Mr Norris claims.
The pioneering aspect of Mr Norrisâs work is based on the direct path his sonic bullets take. Previous attempts to create such a weapon proved difficult because sound travelled in all directions, harming bystanders near to any specific target. US defence department officials are reportedly keen on the weapon in the hunt for al-Qaeda operatives in Afghanistan. With sound ricocheting in their tight cave hideouts, experts believe terrorists fighting US forces would be flushed out quickly. Marine Colonel Peter Dotto told the American ABC network: "They would have to come out and they probably would come out with their hands over their ears so they would be very easy to subdue at that point."
The technology developed by Norris could also be picked up by retail companies hoping to sell their products. Sounds such soft drinks being poured over ice could be directed at passers by to subliminally make them feel like a drink. It could also be used in home entertainment to direct television or hi-fi sounds away from those in the house not wishing to be disturbed.
Posted by: tipper ||
03/12/2004 7:21:26 AM ||
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#1
At least they didn't disclose innerworkings of the fabulous Deano Driver.
#3
...On the other hand, anyone who's actually had to deal with babies can confirm you don't need a sonic cannon to achieve this effect, and one should keep in mind a unexpected effect the USAF found along these lines some years back.
At the E&E school up at Fairchild AFB, WA, the sim POWs were kept awake all night by an endless loop of a baby crying - all, that is, execpt the guys there who were actually parents. They slept like rocks.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
03/12/2004 8:25 Comments ||
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#4
A friend of mine used to joke about his infant daughter's "Dreaded Ultrasonic Baby Shriek."
It's not a joke any more.
Posted by: Mike ||
03/12/2004 8:36 Comments ||
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#5
Marine Colonel Peter Dotto told the American ABC network: "They would have to come out and they probably would come out with their hands over their ears so they would be very easy to subdue at that point."
Or just, you know, shoot them.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
03/12/2004 9:32 Comments ||
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#6
Not to mention the chemical warfare attacks by diapered babies... What is that green stuff anyway?
Posted by: Steve from Relto ||
03/12/2004 10:10 Comments ||
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#8
I fear we are entering into a dangerous arms race. What will happen when Al Quaida scientists develop
the "Jihadi number 5" perfume for use against US troops?
#9
I fear we are entering into a dangerous arms race. What will happen when Al Quaida scientists develop
the "Jihadi number 5" perfume for use against US troops?
Hat tip LGF.
THE UN Security Council has voted unanimously to immediately blame Basque militants ETA for the Spanish train bombings. The vote was made before evidence emerged pointing to al-Qaeda. OoopsâŠ
The 15-nation council, on which Spain holds a non-permanent seat, passed a resolution naming ETA as the perpetrator of the attack after diplomats said they accepted the accusation put forward by Madrid. But previous resolutions have stopped short of naming a specific individual or group, and several UN officials privately expressed surprise at the decision to finger ETA for the bombings, which came ahead of weekend elections in Spain. The country was a firm US ally in the war on Iraq and suspicion mounted later that Islamic militants may have carried out the bombings that left more than 190 dead and 1400 wounded in the Spanish capital.
French UN ambassador Jean-Marc de la Sabliere and his US counterpart John Negroponte said the council had accepted Spainâs decision to blame ETA, although diplomats said other nations expressed some reservations. Negroponte shrugged off suggestions that al-Qaeda or Muslim militants angry over the war might have had a hand in the attacks, saying he had no reason to contradict close war ally Spain. "We are satisfied by the fact that the Security Council acted with such promptness to condemn unanimously this terrible terrorist attack," he said. He said Madrid had claimed that there had been other threats made by the militant separatist group in the run-up to the elections. "It is the judgment of the government of Spain that these attacks were carried out by the ETA, and we have no information to the contrary," Negroponte said. Within hours, however, a letter delivered to an Arabic newspaper and attributed to Osama bin Ladenâs al-Qaeda claimed responsibility for the simultaneous blasts on busy rush hour trains in Madrid. "It was us! Allahu Ackbar!!!!!!"
Meanwhile Spain announced that police had found an audiotape with Koranic verses in Arabic along with several bomb detonators in a van suspected of being linked to the bombings. Diplomats on the Security Council, which was bitterly split over the Iraq war, have repeatedly stressed the need to put those divisions behind them and put forward a united front amid the drive to rebuild Iraq. "We have to give a powerful signal," Chileâs UN ambassador Heraldo Munoz said. He appealed for "unity and clear condemnation" from his council colleagues before the vote.
Munoz heads a key council committee responsible which oversees sanctions against al-Qaeda and the Taliban, which was created in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States. But officials noted that a Security Council resolution passed the day after those attacks did not mention al-Qaeda, and that similar resolutions condemning attacks in Bali and Moscow also refrained from naming a specific perpetrator. "You get the feeling they just jumped the gun on this," one UN official said. In the letter sent to the Al-Quds al-Arabi paper based in London, a group calling itself the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades/Al-Qaeda said it had carried out the Madrid bombings and an attack in Istanbul two days earlier.
The statement, a copy of which was sent to AFP by the paper, said its "death squad" had carried out the attacks, "part of the settling of old scores with crusader Spain, Americaâs ally in its war against Islam". Spainâs Interior Minister Angel Acebes said the focus of the investigation would remain on the Basque group, adding: "We must be very cautious and investigate other leads." At the United Nations, where Spain heads the Security Councilâs counter-terrorism committee - also formed after September 11 - deputy ambassador Ana Maria Menendez said her government was "comforted" by the resolution.
Posted by: Steve from Relto ||
03/12/2004 10:25:40 AM ||
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Fighting broke out Wednesday between Muslim guerrillas and government soldiers, who bombarded the rebels with artillery and helicopter fire ahead of a planned resumption of peace talks, both sides said. At least one rebel was killed as each side blamed the other for breaking last yearâs truce and raising new obstacles to efforts to end a three-decades-long Muslim insurgency. The clashes erupted near a Moro Islamic Liberation Front camp in Sirawai town in the mountainous southern province of Zamboanga del Norte. The military said about 200 men opened fire from two sides at an army platoon, prompting soldiers to fire back and call in artillery and air support from their headquarters a few kilometers away. The soldiers were not initially aware the attackers were MILF rebels, Lt. Col. Renoir Pascua said.
Having been in that position a time or two, I don't think they cared...
There were no immediate reports of casualties among government troops. The guerrillas denied attacking, saying the army began shelling their camp for reasons not clear at dawn Wednesday, setting off a clash that killed one rebel and wounded another. "In the face of the aggression, we were being shelled and attacked by helicopters, (and) we had no choice but to defend ourselves," rebel spokesman Eid Kabalu said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/12/2004 12:33:55 AM ||
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The black gates of the headquarters of Hamas, the militant Islamic group fighting Israel, are shut tight on Nablus Street in a densely packed Palestinian refugee neighborhood in Damascus. Locals say the complex - more apartment building than office - has fallen quiet since the Syrian government, under U.S. pressure, ordered Hamas and other Palestinian organizations to lower their profile. The only telltale sign is a poster of Sheik Ahmed Yassin, Hamasâ spiritual leader, plastered on a cement wall opposite the gates.
Whether the change is more than cosmetic could be critical to a looming showdown between the Bush administration and Syria. The White House, charging that Hamas and other groups use Syria to plan attacks in Israel and the Palestinian territories, is debating whether to impose tougher new diplomatic and economic sanctions on Syria. In an effort to avoid being pushed further into the group of countries that Washington describes as pariahs, the Syrian government recently has improved its cooperation with the CIA against al-Qaida and against Arab fighters trying to sneak across its border into Iraq, U.S. intelligence officials said. "Thereâs been some cooperation. Itâs certainly not what youâd like, but itâs better than itâs been," said a senior U.S. official.
The improved Syrian cooperation has prompted a debate within the Bush administration about whether to impose tougher sanctions now. Officials in the CIA and the State Department argue that further isolating Syria with diplomatic sanctions could kill the chances of persuading the Syrians to cooperate more fully. Some officials in the Pentagon and the White House argue that force is the only language the Syrian regime understands. The Syrians, for their part, are trying to end their isolation from the global economy while remaining a bastion of Arab opposition to Israel. Palestinian representatives in Damascus deny that theyâre plotting terrorist attacks. The officesâ only function, they say, was public affairs - to promote the Palestinian cause in the media.
Both sides agree on one thing: The officesâ closure, demanded last summer by Secretary of State Colin Powell, has had little effect. "The political movement is there, whether there are offices are not," said Ali Badwan, 42, a Syrian-born Palestinian and member of Yasser Arafatâs Palestine Liberation Organization. The offices were closed "just to please the Americans," said Hamdan Hamdan, a Palestinian writer and former member of Syriaâs ruling Baath Party. Whatever can be accomplished in offices can also be accomplished in Damascusâ ubiquitous coffee shops, said Hamdan, who said he isnât allied with the militant groups.
U.S. officials charge that while Syrian President Bashar Assadâs government cut the electricity and phone lines for groups such as Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, it has allowed militants to remain in Syria, using cell phones and generators. The charge that Syria supports terrorism, including backing the Hezbollah Islamic militant organization in southern Lebanon, is just one of Washingtonâs beefs. The White House says Assadâs government is developing weapons of mass destruction, has allowed foreign fighters to cross into Iraq to attack U.S. troops and has refused to turn over assets that belong to the new Iraqi government.
President Bush must choose at least two sanctions from half a dozen, ranging from mild measures such as prohibiting Syrian commercial airline flights to a ban on all U.S. exports to Syria, other than food and medicine. Powell, signaling the administrationâs frustration with Syria, told Knight Ridder in an interview last month that, "at best, their steps have been half-hearted." In Damascus, Syrian officials and intellectuals invariably portray the U.S. moves as a result of pressure from Israel. Syria and Israel are technically still at war. They dismiss the impact of the sanctions. "They will not affect Syria economically. ... It is symbolic," said Mounzer Mously, a former parliament member and veteran Baathist who reflects the official line. Mously echoed the desire that almost everyone interviewed in Syria expresses: good relations with Washington. "America is a superpower now. It is stupidity for us to be an enemy of the United States," he said.
The denials are unlikely to mollify the Bush administration. "If Syria chooses to ignore all facts and ignore the positions that we and others have taken, then thereâs not much prospect for our relationship," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said Thursday.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/12/2004 12:22:18 AM ||
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EFL, etc.
The widow of Abu Abbas, the Palestinian leader who died in US custody in Iraq, has accused the United States of "killing" her husband, and vowed to bury him on Palestinian soil. Good luck finding some.
Meanwhile US officials claime Abbas died of heart disease. That suggestion however, has done little to appease Abbasâs family. Tough Shitsky, as the Russians say.
"I accuse the Americans of having killed him since he died in their custody, either they killed him directly or they neglected him," Reem Nimr (Abbasâs widow) said from her family home in Beirut. You last saw him how many years ago? He was too hot to even live in Beiruit, you say? Had to slink around in Mordor-lite, is that right? Cunt.
"We had a meeting with the ICRC. The (US-led) coalition authorities (in Iraq) should hand over his body to the ICRC who will then give it to us," she (Nimr) said. Donât do it. Bury the scum at sea, from a great height. Sharks gotta eat too.
A Pentagon spokesman said on Tuesday Abu Abbas, the Palestinian who planned the 1985 hijacking of the Achille Lauro cruise ship in which a wheelchair-bound American hostage was killed, died on Monday of "natural causes" in US custody. "URK!! (thump)
US forces on 14 April took Abbas - after ousting Iraqi president Saddam Hussein - into custody in Iraq, where he had been living for several years.
Posted by: mojo ||
03/12/2004 1:52:00 AM ||
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#1
Transport him back to Mordor in a Magen David Adom Ambulance...
#6
any person capable of marrying a terrorist shuld be told to STFU or she'll eat the peanut too
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/12/2004 8:53 Comments ||
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#7
should, not shuld, D'oh! Where's my coffee dammit?
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/12/2004 8:53 Comments ||
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#8
Hey Nimr! Did you know that human beings are mortal?
Posted by: Steve from Relto ||
03/12/2004 10:15 Comments ||
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#9
A 500 pounder right down her Beirut chimney would allow the bitch to be with her husband again. The catch: they'll both be where it's very, very hot.
#11
bawha bawha.....do not give a damn what these people think.....he committed terrorists acts against the US..and just glad he got to spend his last moments as a captive of the US military - poetic justice! no matter when an act of terror is committed WE WILL NEVER FORGET!
should take his body and bury it with pigs!
allaha will not protect your ass!
Posted by: Dan ||
03/12/2004 13:47 Comments ||
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#12
My image is that Leon Klinghoffer has gotten young, strong, and healthy in heaven, and that God is gonna let him have 15 minutes alone with Abu Abbas.
We remember you, Mr. Klinghoffer.
Posted by: Matt ||
03/12/2004 15:40 Comments ||
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I had to get out my ululator when I heard of this dirtbag's much-looked-for death.
Good riddance to some very bad rubbish!
Long live Leon Klinghoffer!
Egypt will host talks between Yasser Arafatâs government, militant groups and numerous other Palestinian factions on how to control the Gaza Strip after a proposed Israeli withdrawal, an aide to the Palestinian leader said yesterday. Israel has hinted to the Palestinians that if there is quiet in Gaza, it might be willing to discuss the fate of the West Bank with the Palestinian Authority, said Nabil Abu Rudeina, a top Arafat aide. Keeping the volatile Gaza Strip under control wonât be easy, however. Gaza militants have not succeeded in crossing the heavily militarized fence and border zone with Israel but have launched crude rockets over it, causing some damage in Israeli border towns. And inside the strip, there are growing signs of anarchy, with rival armed gangs and security forces battling for influence. Abu Rudeina said Egyptian-sponsored talks between the Palestinian factions and the Palestinian Authority will be held in Cairo and the Palestinian territories in the coming weeks, though he didnât give a date. âThe dialogue will focus on the aftermath of an Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, how the Palestinians should run Gaza,â Abu Rudeina said.
Israel's forcing them to govern, if it can be done. I don't imagine it can be, but I could be wrong. For one thing, Yasser has no idea how to do it...
Although presented as a unilateral withdrawal, Israel is seeking solid backing from the United States and coordination with Egypt â and to a lesser extent with the Palestinians â to make sure âchaos and anarchyâ do not prevail in Gaza, a senior Israeli official said.
Popcorn, anyone?
Posted by: Fred ||
03/12/2004 9:50:15 PM ||
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#1
As usual Arafish's timing couldn't be worse. Is there a pool on when his own people will do him in?
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
03/12/2004 22:22 Comments ||
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#2
how to control it? I'd suggest deadly force...nothing less has worked
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/12/2004 22:39 Comments ||
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#3
So what is wrong with chaos and anarchy? They want an independent Paleostine? They are getting it on the installment plan. It will be one hell of a reality show!
Popcorn: Check!
Trail mix: Check!
Fine dark ale: Check!!
Assortment of meats, cheeses, dainties: Check!
Remote control batteries new, fresh and installed: Check!
TV screen scrubbed clean and spotless: Check!
Chores done, dogs, sheep, and chickens fed: Check!
Today is POETS Day*: Check!
We are ready. Let the games begin!
*Piss On Everything Tomorrow's Saturday
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/12/2004 22:41 Comments ||
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Why should Israel give a shit what happens in Gaza? The Palestinians laid the foundation for the current threat of chaos and anarchy, so let them reap the rewards of their efforts. Station troops at the border to put the boot to the faces of any Palestinian that tries to escape their self-made hell.
#5
"Palestinians to Discuss Control Over Gaza"--Ever seen a bigger description of a circle jerk (today)?
These idiots deserve to kill each other because they're so obnoxious and stupid!
Sure, they've had since 1948 to discuss how to run Paleostine.
Sure, since Arafish's Supreme Leadership, they're going to discuss "control" of Paleostine as if they were the Arab Founding Fathers writing the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
I am so over these scumbags.
Finish the fence and let the internecine slaughter begin already!
Popcorn in 3-2-1.
Fears of a religious war between Iraqâs Sunni and Shiite communities were palpable yesterday as hundreds of worshipers, some of them armed, gathered at a Baghdad mosque to pay tribute to a slain cleric. Dozens of guards, their faces wrapped in headscarves, and a US military team stood tense watch, as worshipers were searched at the entrance to the Findi Al-Kubaiysi mosque, its wall scarred with bullet and shrapnel marks. US officials say Imam Ali Hussein Hassan Al-Obedi was gunned down on a nearby street Monday by four men in a brown BMW vehicle. No clear leads have emerged from the investigation so far.
But people who came yesterday to the Sunni mosque to pay their respects in this predominantly Shiite quarter of Shorta Al-Hamsi spoke of a campaign by foreigners to covertly ignite a civil war between the two communities. One worshiper was gunned down in his home near the mosque on Wednesday. On Thursday, a security guard was killed when a grenade was tossed toward the entrance from a passing car, people here said. They said another imam in the district was also attacked and injured and that two members of his family were shot dead. On Feb. 21, men assassinated a Sunni cleric from a nearby mosque at his home. âThey want to spark a civil war,â said an official from Iraqâs US-appointed Governing Council, but he was certain âtheyâ were not Shiites, or even Iraqis.
Maybe the Indos are right. It's sure starting to sound like Pakland. Wonder if they're opening local branches of Lashkar e-Jhangvi?
Posted by: Fred ||
03/12/2004 9:47:06 PM ||
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NY Times -- Registration required
The American occupation authority said today that four of the six men arrested after gunmen shot and killed two American civilians on Tuesday were carrying "current and valid" documents identifying them as members of the new Iraqi police force. Iraqi police officers in Karbala said that several of the killers had worked at a police station opposite the place where one of the civilians, Fern Holland, 33, worked. Ms. Holland promoted womenâs rights, and the killersâ motive appeared to be anger at American efforts that some perceive as hostile to local social mores, they said. Faced with opposition, the Iraqi cops decided to take care of things the old fashioned way... killâem and dissapear the bodies.
A fifth man seized in the killings was a former member of the police force under Saddam Hussein, an American spokesman said, while the sixth man was described as a civilian. Three days after the killings on a road near Karbala, the Shiite holy city 70 miles south of Baghdad, American officials identified the American victims as Ms. Holland and Robert Zangis, 44, a former marine, who was working with Iraqi newspapers to promote press rights. An Iraqi woman working as an interpreter was also killed when the car that all three were traveling in was chased down by the gunmen about 20 miles east of Karbala at sunset on Tuesday. American officials continued to hold back further details of the killings, citing concern for the families of the victims. They also said that the investigation by the F.B.I. and Iraqis was not complete, and that some details about the attack remained uncertain. Snipped a lot of NY Times whining and carping about cultural relativism. Sorry NYT, any culture that deals with diversity by snuffing it out with guns is a big fat f***ing goose egg. Human life come before cultural sensitivity. The person is more important than the Idea.
I never knew that!
For 100 nights a year over three decades, punk-rock guiterrorist Johnny Ramone stood with his head down, face in an intense scowl of concentration, legs shoulder-width apart, hammering at his blue Mosrite with a blurry right hand. The cacophony was pure bliss, a white noise ringing that punched holes in all that was peaceful, shards of the power chords busting into little aural stars, like the lights you see when you smack your head, only in your ears. It was such good, loud pain.
Johnny dropped his job as a construction worker in 1974 and held down stage right for 22 years as the guitarist for the most influential rock band of the last 30 years. The Ramones fertilized the punk-rock scene first in their hometown of New York City, then in England. Eventually â who knew? â that sound would form the chassis for what the corporate rock industry later dubbed "alternative" and, eventually, infiltrated top 40.
He was a rebel in a rebelâs world, though. Johnny Ramone was a fiercely Republican-voting, NRA-supporting musician in a milieu that is remarkable for its embrace of all things left. Johnny went worldwide public with his partisanship in 2002, when the Ramones were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. At the microphone to give props to the people who made it all possible, he offered his own version of a Michael Moore moment. "God bless President Bush, and God bless America," he said, clad in his trademark T-shirt, ripped blue jeans and leather jacket. "I said that to counter those other speeches at the other awards," Mr. Ramone says in a phone interview. "Republicans let this happen over and over, and there is never anyone to stick up for them. They spend too much time defending themselves."
#2
thks for posting Raj - I saw this and (ahem) was too lazy. Good counter tho' - Ramones Rock!
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/12/2004 18:29 Comments ||
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Johnny was an unabashed capitalist. His favorite TV show was Squawk Box, and he recorded a love song to Maria Bartiromo on his final album, âDon't Worry About Meâ. Maria was quite proud. Here's the first verse.
What's happening on Wall St.
What's happening at the Stock Exchange
I want to know
What's happening on Squawk Box
What's happening with my stocks
I want to know
I watch you on the TV every single day
Those eyes make everything okay
I watch her every day
I watch her every night
She's really outta sight
Maria Bartiromo
Maria Bartiromo
Maria Bartiromo
Posted by: Eric Jablow ||
03/12/2004 19:28 Comments ||
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Just reported as "Breaking News" on FOX News; no link as of this post. The search for Waldo bin Laden continues...
Here's the text...
The U.S. military has launched a new offensive in Afghanistan called "Operation Mountain Storm" aimed at rooting out elements of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, Pentagon officials said Friday. Though Mountain Storm is a new operation, it is also a continuation of a series of efforts that began last summer and fall. Those operations, including one called Mountain Resolve, aimed to drive terrorist elements out of the south of Afghanistan and some areas of the north, and back toward the border with Pakistan. U.S. military officials have called the strategic technique "hammer and anvil." Now, U.S. and other coalition forces â including elements of the Afghan National Army â will be working the Afghan side of the border in pursuit of Taliban and Al Qaeda remnants holed up in the mountains. Military officials said the specific intent was to locate and neutralize any "high value" targets to be found there. Military officials said no new U.S. forces will be committed to Mountain Storm. Of the 11,000 U.S. troops now in Afghanistan, it is not clear how many will participate in the sweep through the border region.
I'm still not happy. Driving them out of Afghanistan and back into Pakland just drives them back into their safe haven. Eventually we'll have to go in and kill them and their supporters.
#2
If this is the big push to find Binny, I hope the troops have armed themselves with lots of digging implements, baggies for bone and hair samples, and suitable instruments for scraping the latter out of collapsed rat holes.
WASHINGTON â The U.S. military has launched a new offensive in Afghanistan (search) called "Operation Mountain Storm" aimed at rooting out elements of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, Pentagon officials said Friday.
Though Mountain Storm is a new operation, it is also a continuation of a series of efforts that began last summer and fall. Those operations, including one called Mountain Resolve, aimed to drive terrorist elements out of the south of Afghanistan and some areas of the north, and back toward the border with Pakistan (search).
U.S. military officials have called the strategic technique "hammer and anvil."
Now, U.S. and other coalition forces â including elements of the Afghan National Army (search) â will be working the Afghan side of the border in pursuit of Taliban and Al Qaeda remnants holed up in the mountains. Military officials said the specific intent was to locate and neutralize any "high value" targets to be found there.
Military officials said no new U.S. forces will be committed to Mountain Storm. Of the 11,000 U.S. troops now in Afghanistan, it is not clear how many will participate in the sweep through the border region.
Fox News' Bret Baier contributed to this report.
Sounds like the afgha.com story covers the anvil
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
03/12/2004 16:51 Comments ||
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#4
Get yer popcorn goin' folks. It's Friday Night At The Fights.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
03/12/2004 16:58 Comments ||
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Now is the moment, excellent contrast on the scopes. Let's Roll! Cut loose the pups and open the gates! It's showtime!
#6
From Strategy Page --- probably a big part of this...
INFANTRY: Task Force 121 and Alexander the Great
March 12, 2004: Task Force 121, a force of over a thousand US Special Forces troops, intelligence experts, special aviation personnel and commandoes (from the U.S., Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Canada) has been sent to Afghanistan to catch Osama bin Laden. Their prey is thought to be hiding somewhere along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border zone. The unit is touted as being a unique hybrid of civilian intelligence and military striking power. It is unique, and it isn't.
The concept behind Task Force 121 is not really all that new, but few nations have been able to put together the right ingredients. Historical examples of operations similar to Task Force 121 are numerous. Alexander the Great brought lots of academics and diplomats when he invaded Persia 2500 years ago. He used brains (lots of good intel and diplomacy) and brawn to get the job done. The Spanish conquistadors used a similar approach 500 years ago to bring down the native empires. By enlisting local support with diplomacy (via knowledge of local politics) and using their superior military technology, they repeated Alexander's feats. The 12th century Mongols used the same combination of brains and muscle, as did the Romans at their prime. Napoleon also used extensive networks of spies and diplomats to facilitate his conquests.
One critical elements of Task Force 121 is the US Army Special Forces, which are a unique military organization (in the world, and historically). They are multilingual soldiers who can operate as commandoes or diplomats, as needed. But Task Force 121 will have major technical advantages like UAVs (particularly the Predator), which can watch an area round the clock. In addition, there are electronic warfare units that scan for any emissions in the target area, as well as monitoring of local Internet use. But most important is the network of informants the Special Forces established (on both sides of the Pakistani border) in the past two years. Recruiting informers takes time. Information is the key to victory in this campaign.
The commander of Task Force 121 is also a major asset. Rear Admiral William H. McRaven began his navy career as a SEAL commando. He is highly respected as a very honest, smart and physically tough SEAL veteran. He is very well thought of in SOCOM. Many were surprised that he got promoted to Admiral, as he has a reputation for being uncompromising (the higher one rises in any organization, the more pressure there is to compromise in order to get everyone moving in the same direction.)
But the key to Task Force 121's success will be information. The border area is over a thousand kilometers long and contains hundreds of mountain valleys, thousands of caves and many villages (often built to look, and act, as a small fortress) where bin Laden could be hiding. The commandoes and Special Forces are excellent at patrolling and staking out remote areas. The New Zealand SAS contingent is noted as the most proficient mountain troops in the world. So wherever bin Laden takes refuge, the Task Force 121 operators can get to him. Task Force 121 has the use of special helicopters that can fly in any weather and at night. Teams of commandoes can be put into remote areas to block escape routes, or grab bin Laden if he comes out of his hole. British SAS commandos, in late 2001, successfully assaulted a major Taliban cave complex in a daring operation that benefited from excellent reconnaissance, planning and daring execution. It will take all of that to catch bin Laden.
Het tip LGF. EFL.
Ahmed Rami wanted to buy his six-year-old son alphabet blocks to help him read, but little Rami wanted a sleek black M-16 plastic rifle instead. "I wanna kill them Jews!"
"I want to shoot at the (Israeli) army," Rami yelled at his father in the shop in the West Bank city of Jenin, a hotbed of militants who have been fighting Israel for more than three years. "They stole our oxygen for their use!"
Toy stores are packed with plastic arsenals of rifles, miniature tanks, missiles and artillery pieces. Outside, boys with toy guns organize street battles reminiscent of those fought between Palestinian gunmen and Israeli troops. "All people are equal!" "Worthless Infidel! Budda-budda!"
"I shot you, why didnât you play dead," one boy shouted at his playmate. "Your bullet missed me. I am lucky," his friend replied. War games might be a perennial favorite of children across the world but many in the West Bank and Gaza Strip fear they could also be a symptom of a generation that sees no future but violence in the territories seized by Israel in the 1967 Middle East War and where Palestinians want a state. And a second Holocaust.
Posted by: Steve from Relto ||
03/12/2004 11:40:39 AM ||
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The Chadian army battled Islamic militants near a remote village on the countryâs western border with Niger, killing 43 "terrorists" of a group suspected of links with al-Qaida, the government said Friday. I like that body count.
Three soldiers were also killed and 18 wounded in two days of fighting that started Monday near the village of Zouake, Chadâs information minister, Moukhtar Wawa Dahab, said in the capital, NâDjamena. Suspecting that al-Qaida might be recruiting and planning new attacks in the deserts and jungles of Africa, the United States is helping train and equip security forces in Chad, Niger and two other Saharan nations to better guard their porous borders against terrorists and arms trafficking. If this is true, these troops deserve strong support.
Some 200 U.S. soldiers have been deployed throughout the continent to patrol alongside local armies or hunt terrorists on short notice if necessary. However, a U.S. defense official, speaking in Washington on condition of anonymity, said Thursday that no American forces took part in the fighting in Chad. Good. The anti-terror struggle is our; but national defense is up to the nationals.
Clashes started when five trucks packed with fighters from the Salafist Group for Call and Combat crossed from Niger into Chad, where soldiers on a routine patrol intercepted them, Dahab said. The Salafist group is an Algerian Islamic militant organization believed to have ties to Osama bin-Ladenâs al-Qaida... The only good terrorist is a dead one.
Posted by: Man Bites Dog ||
03/12/2004 10:22:44 AM ||
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#1
YOU FUCKING BASTARDS HOW DARE YOU SAY THINGS LIKE THAT IT IS YOU THE PEOPLE OF THE DUMB WEST THAT SHOULD BE TREATED LIKE THIS NOT INNOCENT MEN WHO ARE NOW FREE BUT THE QUESTION THAT REMAINS IS WHY ARE THEY NOW FREE IF THEY WERE GUILTY???!!! YOU WILL ROT IN HELL BELIEVE ME YOUR TIME WILL COME
A plot to abduct the long-serving president of the small, oil-rich west African nation of Equatorial Guinea has been unveiled on national television by the alleged leader of a group of mercenaries. "It wasnât a question of taking the life of the head of state, but of spiriting him away, taking him to Spain and forcing him into exile and then of immediately installing the government in exile of Severo Moto Nsa," said the man, introduced as Nick du Toit.
"Hallo, Moto!"
Equatorial Guinea called for the extradition of Mr Moto, who tried to mount a coup against President Teodoro Obiang Nguema in 1997 from Angola and recently set up a government in exile in Spain. Mr Obiang, who came to power in a 1979 coup, announced the arrest of 15 mercenaries on Tuesday.
Only been in power 25 years?
"A group of mercenaries entered the country and was studying plans to carry out a coup dâetat in Equatorial Guinea," he was quoted as saying, pointing the finger at the exiled Mr Moto. "The group was supposed . . . to start by identifying strategic targets such as the presidency, the military barracks, police posts and the residences of government members," Mr du Toit said. Then "it was supposed to have vehicles at Malabo Airport to transport other mercenaries who were due to arrive from South Africa. At the last minute, I got a call to say that the other group of mercenaries had been arrested in South Africa as they were preparing to leave the country."
Mr Obiang had also alleged the group were linked to 67 men detained in Zimbabwe at the weekend when their plane was impounded. Zimbabweâs Government has warned that the suspected mercenaries could face the death penalty. Mr Obiang said he been tipped off to the plot by the South African President, Thabo Mbeki, "who warned us that a group of mercenaries was heading towards Equatorial Guinea .. . . Angola also sent messages to tell us to be vigilant." Earlier national radio had named Mr du Toit, 48, a South African, as the groupâs leader. The remainder of the 15 were from Angola, Armenia, Sao Tome and Principe and South Africa, as well as one German. But a South African diplomat based in neighbouring Libreville said he had no knowledge of Mr du Toitâs background, described on the radio here as a "trafficker in arms and diamonds".
Posted by: tipper ||
03/12/2004 6:26:14 AM ||
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Talk about bad opsec,what did these guys do take an add out in the personals.
The siege of a girlsâ school by militants and other violence in Kashmir killed 14 people on Thursday, amid spiraling bloodshed not yet eased by ongoing peace efforts between India and Pakistan.
Militants and security forces waged a gunfight at the school in the town of Khrew, where the militants had taken refuge after a failed attack on a nearby army camp. Jaish e-Muhammad, a banned militant group, took responsibility for the attack in Khrew in a call to the local office of the British Broadcasting Corp. Police officers at the school said two militants and two soldiers had been killed in the gunbattle. Lt Colonel Kulwant Singh, who took part in the operations, said two civilians were also killed in the crossfire outside the school. After the firing stopped, the army searched the school and some neighbouring homes but didnât find any militants hiding there, Col Singh said. He said the militants had targeted the nearby army training school for counterinsurgency operations. About 210 girls, eight teachers and two other staff were trapped in the building for almost four hours while security forces and militants exchanged fire. The militants freed the children and the teachers at midday, allowing police officers to enter the campus and lead them out. Scores of Muslim girls wearing headscarves and in long Kashmiri tunics trooped out of the school, crouching as they walked behind a wall from where the militant fire was coming. The body of one woman was found full of bullets and wrapped in a blanket in a drain behind the school. It was unclear whether she had been used as a human shield or shot in the crossfire.
The bloodshed continued elsewhere in the Kashmir Valley on Thursday, killing at least seven other people. Orchard worker Javed Ahmad Dar was killed in Paner, 60 kilometres south of Srinagar, when he was mistaken for a militant. Mr Dar did not halt on being asked to do so by soldiers, local officers said on Thursday. Hundreds of mourners sat by his body in his village, asking for punishment of the soldiers who had fired. Early on Thursday, suspected guerrillas shot and killed ruling party member Abdul Khaliq, in his home in Khanda village. In Nowpora-Jageer village, government troops killed three suspected rebels in a gunbattle on Thursday. Two soldiers were also killed and three homes were damaged in the fighting. Separately, a woman wounded in a grenade blast on Wednesday died of her injuries in the hospital on Thursday.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
03/12/2004 4:25:55 AM ||
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EFL
Days before the start of Muharram, the Sindh police had warned its counterparts in Quetta of possible trouble during the month in that city. The warning from Sindh followed the arrest by Karachi police of two hardcore militants of the proscribed Lashkar-e Jhangvi who revealed the group was planning attacks during Muharram. Now, when a tribunal is collecting accounts of around 180 witnesses to the Quetta attack on Youm-e-Ashur which killed 50 people and left more than 100 mourners injured, Sindh police officials told TFT authorities in Quetta had been warned of strong possibility of an attack in that city. âWe donât think the warning was taken seriously or security measures put in place in line with the level of warning,â says a police official in Karachi.
On February 17, two weeks before the Quetta massacre, Karachi police arrested two religious militants, including one suspected of involvement in the kidnapping and killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. The two men, Sajid Jabbar alias Budha, and Mohammad Athar alias Khalid Memon were arrested in an overnight raid and belong to the Deobandi-sectarian outlawed group Lashkar-e Jhangvi. Police suspects Budha of involvement in the 2002 kidnapping and murder of Pearl as well as several other militant attacks. âHe carries a head money of Rs500,000,â says an officer. This officer says Budha was a close associate of Asif Ramzi, another suspect in the murder of Pearl, who accidentally got killed in December 2002 in Karachi while handling explosives. Investigations revealed that Budha and Memon were planning fresh attacks in Karachi and elsewhere. The police also seized a huge amount of weapons and explosives from their possession. Budha, who is the chief of the provincial wing of LJ is wanted in at least 10 separate terror attacks, including mailing parcel bombs to senior police officers.
The two militants also gave information of earlier unknown Muslim United Army, a conglomeration of some other jihadi and sectarian outfits. The MUA (whose activities have previously been reported by The Friday Times) has taken responsibility for the parcel-bomb attacks in October 2002 and attacks on 21 petrol stations owned and run by the Anglo-Dutch Shell Company. Meanwhile, investigators in Quetta have found the remains of two suspects in a house and recovered ammunition and weapons engraved with the name of LJ and slogans eulogising the banned Deobandi-sectarian terrorist organisation.
The "remains of two suspects"?
"Ahmed! Mahmoud's dead!"
"Just shove his carcass in the closet."
"But Mustafa's in there!"
"So what? He's dead, too!"
"Yeah, but he's been there a long time. He smells funny!"
On July 4, 2003, terrorists attacked an imambargah in Quetta, killing 53 people and injuring more than 100. During investigations, the Balochistan police tipped the Sindh police about a certain Sanaullah who it claimed was heading the Akram Lahori faction of the banned LJ and was hiding in Sindh after the attack. The police in Karachi has since captured many LJ activists but Sanaullah remains at large. TFT investigations revealed that Sanaullah was among the 21 LJ activists and other militants that were hiding in Afghanistan and who the former Taliban government had refused to hand over to Pakistan after Islamabad gave Kabul a list of terrorists. That list was topped by LJ chief Riaz Basra. Basra was killed in a police encounter in the Punjab in 2002 when he sneaked into Pakistan following the ouster of the Taliban government. Some others on the list, most of them wanted and carrying head money, included Basraâs deputy Zakiullah, Muhammad Ajmal alias Akram Lahori, Muhammad Aslam Muawia, Tariq Mehmood, Shakeel Ahmad, Javed Ahmad, Rustam Ali Khan, Muhammad Tanveer Khan, Abdul Aziz alias Katona, Ghulam Shabbir alias Fauji, Amanat Ali, Dilawar Hussain, Hafiz Mazhar Iqbal, Shabbir Ahmad, Ihsanullah, Asghar Ali, Shafiq, Qari Asad, Akhtar Muawia and Qari Saifullah Akhtar.
Qari Saifullah Akhtar, who headed Harkat-e Jihad-e Islami with its base in Afghanistan, was wanted for his alleged role in the unsuccessful attempt to dislodge the government of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto. Major-Gen Zaheerul Islam Abbasi and Brig Mustanser Billah were tried and convicted by a military court in the same case. Most of the accused on the list have either been killed in police encounters or have since been captured. Police sources say the LJ factions led by Akram Lahori and Asif Ramzi have not yet lost their strength despite Lahoriâs arrest and Ramziâs mysterious death. âWe have information that they are regrouping and getting new recruits from the smaller towns and rural areas across Pakistan,â says an intelligence officer.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
03/12/2004 2:19:51 AM ||
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Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili appears determined to crack Georgiaâs Chechen conundrum. His efforts so far, however, have angered many, while leaving few satisfied. Shortly after taking office in late January, Saakashvili characterized Shevardnadzeâs lack of action on the Chechen separatist question as "dangerous policy," and pledged to tighten border controls along the Georgian-Russian frontier. During Saakashviliâs early February visit to Moscow, the Georgian president vowed to work with Russian leaders to improve security along the two countriesâ shared frontier, offering to form joint military patrols. He also indicated he would step up efforts to extradite suspected Islamic militants. Saakashvili reportedly admitted to Russian officials that Shevardnadzeâs administration had turned a blind eye to Chechen separatist activity in the Pankisi Gorge.
After returning to Georgia, Saakashvili told reporters on February 18 that the country needed to confront the threat of "Wahabbism" â a term that is commonly interchangeable in the parlance of the Commonwealth of Independent States with Islamic radicalism. He promised to undertake "severe actions" to drive Islamic radicals out of Georgia. "They should not expect any compromise on our part," the Georgian president said. Mysterious actions followed Saakashviliâs tough words. On February 19, Russian authorities detained two Chechens â Beqkhan Mulkoyev and Hussein Alkhanov â at the Georgian-Russian border three days after the duoâs unexplained disappearance in Tbilisi. Russian officials said Mulkoyev and Alkhanov were wanted on an Interpol warrant for suspected terrorist activity. The pair was among a group of 13 Chechens who had been detained in 2002 on suspicion of entering Georgia illegally. Just under two weeks before being taken into custody by Russian authorities, Mulkoyev and Alkhanov had been acquitted by a Tbilisi court of the illegal border-crossing charge.
Georgian officials denied any involvement in either the disappearance of the two Chechens, or their subsequent arrest. But a leader of the Chechen community in Georgia, Khizri Aldamov, disputed the Georgian official account. "No one would believe that they [Mulkoyev and Alkhanov] went to the Russian border themselves," Aldamov told the Civil Georgia web site. "They did not intend to leave Georgia."
And maybe Georgia didn't intend to keep them...
In moving to crack down on suspected Islamic radicals, Saakashvili is striving to accomplish several political aims in one stroke: If successful, the crackdown would go a long way towards reestablishing central authority in the Pankisi Gorge; it also would serve to demonstrate that Saakashviliâs administration is serious about cooperating with Russia, thus raising the odds that solutions could be found to a host of bilateral problems, including Abkhaziaâs political status; and it would reassure the United States on Georgiaâs commitment to fight international terrorism. The shift in Georgian government policy has alarmed thousands of Chechen refugees in Georgia, most of whom are concentrated in the Pankisi Gorge. It also has caused concern among Kists, ethnic Chechens who are indigenous to the Pankisi Gorge. Some observers suggest the crackdown could result in violations of the civil rights of both refugees and local residents. According to Civil Georgia, many Chechen refugees worry that Georgian-Russian cooperation "might threaten their security."
One Chechen advocate in Georgia, Dzhokola Acheshvili, said the Georgian governmentâs campaign was not distinguishing between radicals and mainstream believers of Islam. He went on to suggest there was a religious motive to the crackdown, in which Saakashvili, as leader of Christian Georgia, was seeking to curb the practice of Islam in the country: "The Georgian president has said he is beginning a struggle against so-called âWahabbism,â" Acheshvili said in a statement posted on the Chechen web site Kavkaz-Tsentr on February 19. "In fact, this is nothing other than a struggle against Islam."
That's the usual charge, isn't it? Fires up the rubes, y'know...
Acheshvili accused Saakashvili of trying to "isolate Kist children" from their cultural heritage, and alleged that authorities had condoned attacks against Islamic cutural sites in Pankisi, including the desecration of a mosque in Duisi, the regional center. "The fact that Saakashvili has decided to attack religion will bring nothing good to Georgian society," Acheshvili added.
Trotting out the mosque desecration charge right on schedule...
Other reports posted by Kavkaz Tsentr have made vague references to possible retaliation if what it portrays as the harassment of Chechen refugees does not cease. "Chechens are not responsible for future problems in relations that most probably could arise," said a March 7 commentary on the arrest of an 18-year-old Chechen on the Georgian-Azerbaijani border.
"Certainly they can't be expected to control themselves, or to react rationally to any stimulus..."
While Saakashviliâs crackdown on Islamic militants has unsettled refugees in Georgia, it apparently has not satisfied some influential members of Russiaâs government. On March 6, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov complained in an interview with the French newspaper Figaro that separatists are continuing to use Georgian territory as a safe haven. Ivanov said Islamic militants from outside the former Soviet Union continued to use Georgia as a transit point on their way to fight in Chechnya. "Neither the [Georgian] army nor the police take any measures," Ivanov said. "We have eliminated dozens of foreign terrorists, including nationals from NATO member-states, mainly Turkey. Georgian visas have always been found in their passports." According to a British Broadcasting System report March 9, Russian officials had found documentation on separatists killed in action that indicates some Islamic militants are being recruited in Britain.
Al-Muhajiroun still hasn't beens down...
Saakashvili vigorously denied Ivanovâs allegations, according to an Itar-Tass report March 8. Saakashvili reiterated Georgiaâs offer to conduct joint patrols with Russia in an attempt to seal the Georgian-Russian border. "Nothing has been done" by Moscow to follow up on the Georgian offer, Saakashvili said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/12/2004 12:29:48 AM ||
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HARARE, Zimbabwe (AP) - Sixty-four suspected mercenaries allegedly hired to overthrow the government of oil-rich Equatorial Guinea will face charges in Zimbabwe, along with their three-man flight crew, the attorney general said Thursday. Attorney General Bharat Patel was quoted by state radio as saying the men, who were arrested Sunday when their aging Boeing 727 stopped at Harare International Airport, are expected to appear in court Friday or Saturday.
Worse for wear, too, I bet.
Patel said the men would be charged under Zimbabwe's aviation, firearms and immigration laws. Foreign Minister Stan Mudenge has said they could face the death penalty, but none of the charges mentioned by Patel is a capital offense.
This is Bob-land, laws don't matter!
Fifteen other alleged mercenaries were arrested in Equatorial Guinea on Tuesday, also on suspicion of plotting to overthrow the government. Zimbabwean Home Affairs Minister Kembo Mohadi said Wednesday that Equatorial Guinea's rebel leader, Severo Moto, had offered the group $1.8 million and oil rights for overthrowing President Teodoro Obiang Ngeuma. Mohadi claimed the CIA, together with British and Spanish intelligence agencies, had persuaded Equatorial Guinea's police and military chiefs to cooperate with the coup plotters by promising them Cabinet posts in the new government. The agencies also were supplying the plotters with communications equipment, he said.
Reporter: "How do you know they were plotting a coup?"
African leader: "'cause they're asking just like I did when I came to power!"
A U.S. intelligence official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said "the notion that the U.S. government is involved is uproariously funny absurd." South Africa's foreign minister met with an Equatorial Guinea delegation Thursday in Pretoria to discuss the issue. South Africans account for 20 of the 64 men detained in Zimbabwe, with most of the others being from Namibia and Angola. The South Africans, who include former members of the South African military, could also face anti-mercenary charges at home, South African President Thabo Mbeki said.
The mercs should have stayed in bed.
Details of the coup plot came from an alleged co-conspirator who was detained Sunday as he waited to meet the plane, Mohadi said. He has been identified as Simon "the Weasel" Mann, a British agent allegedly involved in efforts to buy weapons from Zimbabwe's state arms maker. Along with the plane, Zimbabwe authorities seized what they called "Outward Bound military materials" - including satellite telephones, radios, backpacks, hiking boots, bolt cutters and an inflatable raft. There were no reports of weapons on the plane.
I've got everything except a sat phone and raft here at the house. Wonder if they want to arrest me?
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/12/2004 12:19:57 AM ||
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Eight federal troops and local police officers have been killed in rebel raids in Chechnya over the past day. Five of them died in 19 rebel raids on federal outposts throughout Chechnya since Wednesday. Two of the soldiers died in a clash with rebels Wednesday near the southern village of Gekhi. A member of the security detail of Chechnyaâs Moscow-supported leader, Akhmad Kadyrov, was killed and two of his colleagues were wounded when their car hit a rebel land mine Wednesday near the village of Galsonchu in the eastern Nozhai-Yurt region. Two officers in the Moscow-backed local police were wounded Wednesday by a federal soldier in the city of Argun after they refused to stop for checks at a railway station. Over the past 24 hours, Russian artillery shelled suspected rebel hideouts in the southern mountains and troops detained at least 160 people for suspected rebel ties.
Magomed Khambiyev, a one-time defense minister in the separatist government of Chechnya, surrendered to the Moscow-backed local administration this week, becoming the highest-ranking rebel to take advantage of the Kremlin amnesty. Speaking to reporters in Chechnyaâs second-largest city of Gudermes on Thursday, Khambiyev denied allegations that he had been forced to surrender after the detention of his family members. ``I was in opposition to Russia for 13 years, but I decided to stop because my people want peace and tranquility,ââ Khambiyev was quoted as saying. He added that he was eager to help the Kremlin-backed Chechen administration. Kadyrovâs son, Ramzan, who leads his security detail, told Interfax that another rebel warlord, Boris Aidamirov, and 10 of his men surrendered Thursday. He said Aidamirov was an aide to separatist leader Aslan Maskhadov.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/12/2004 12:25:28 AM ||
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A small group of U.S. troops quietly helped Chadâs military in a running battle this week against an Algerian Islamic group, U.S. sources said Thursday. U.S. forces have been providing communications, intelligence and reconnaissance support to the Chad forces, but have not participated in combat, U.S. sources said. The reconnaissance includes Navy P-3 aircraft operating out of Algeria, a U.S. military source said. Publicly, the United States has only acknowledged that it is providing training for African military forces in the region. The U.S. military mission is not covert, but officials have not talked about the details because of sensitivities in the region concerning the presence of U.S. forces.
In the latest firefight, military forces from Niger chased GSPC members across the border into Chad. The GSPC group, believed to number 43, was surrounded by Chad forces, which U.S. intelligence estimated to be "in the hundreds," according to a U.S. source. The government of Chad said GSPC leader Saifi Ammari, also known as "al-Para" was killed in the firefight, but the United States has not been able to confirm that. Chad asked U.S. intelligence officials for a photograph of the terrorist leader so it can be compared with one of the bodies, sources said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/12/2004 12:17:02 AM ||
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Chadâs army has killed 43 Islamic militants during two days of heavy fighting near the border with Niger, the government said Thursday. The government said in a statement that those killed belonged to the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat, a hard-line Algerian Islamic militant group that recently pledged its allegiance to al Qaeda "The government forces have neutralized the threat from the terrorists," the statement said. Washington has vowed to assist Mauritania, Niger and Chad to combat security threats. Chad said among the dead were nine Algerians and nationals from Niger, Nigeria and Mali -- all countries where the United States fears al Qaeda is recruiting militants and setting up cells. This is the first weâve heard of non-Algerian fighting with the GSPC. Looks like Sahraoui has indeed expanded their horizons.
Three government soldiers were killed and 18 were wounded, the statement said. The army seized weapons, including mortars and pickup trucks with mounted heavy machine guns, and satellite phones, it said. The army found the group of Islamic militants in Zouarke, 80 miles from Zouar -- a remote desert town in northern Chad near the border with Niger, the statement said. Soldiers captured five prisoners, including a Chadian said by the government to be a member of a the countryâs rebel movement. The main Chadian rebel group is the Movement for Democracy and Justice, otherwise known as MDJT. This is the first Iâve heard them being Islamist or having ties to the GSPC.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/12/2004 12:14:51 AM ||
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#1
Chadâs army has killed 43 Islamic militants...
So would those be ... "hanging Chads"?
(rimshot)
Sorry to be juvenile ... think of it as some therapeutic gloating after 24 hours of seething over Madrid.
Posted by: Another Dan ||
03/12/2004 2:57 Comments ||
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#2
Sorry but the Sahraoui are the tribes from former Spanish Sahara who are not happy with Moroccan occupation. If they are like their Algerain cousins then they are predominatly Suffi and legitimate targets for the GSPC wahabists.
#3
Dan is referring to Nabil Sahraoui, who was reported as taking over the GSPC last year.
It's interesting that judging from the countries of origin, the Salafists have recruited black Africans as members. That seems like more evidence that the Salafists are becoming a true regional outfit across Africa, rather than an Algerian insurgent group with bases/support in other countries.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
03/12/2004 4:11 Comments ||
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#4
if they're pursued across borders like this effort apparently did, I doubt they'll be "alive" long. Good hunting!
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/12/2004 9:22 Comments ||
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#5
Note this may be one reason Powell et al are playing nice with Sudan - current govt of Chad is pro-Sudan (if not in fact Sudanese puppet) would be hard to do this without Sudan's cooperation.
A bomb blast killed two American soldiers in Iraq, the military said Friday. The violence came amid growing concerns that Iraqi police - not just impostors in Iraqi uniforms - may have been behind the killings of two coalition staffers and their translator. The soldiers died Thursday when their Humvee struck a homemade bomb northeast of Habbiniyah in the Sunni Triangle. The shooting deaths Tuesday of the civilians, the first from the U.S. occupation authority to be killed in Iraq, prompted concern about safety.
One of the CPA workers was 33-year-old Fern Holland, a human rights expert from Oklahoma who worked on women's issues in the Hillah region where she was killed. "If I die, know that I'm doing precisely what I want to be doing," Holland wrote in an e-mail to a friend in Tulsa on Jan. 21. She met often with Iraqi women around Hillah and communicated their needs to Iraq's Governing Council, even influencing the interim constitution completed this week, said one of her colleagues, Judy Van Rest. "She was extremely dedicated to what she was doing," Van Rest said. "She carried a lot of hope with her about the future of Iraq." The other American killed was Robert J. Zangas, 44, of suburban Pittsburgh. Zangas went to Iraq last year with his Marine Corps Reserve unit and returned as a regional press officer with the coalition, according to his wife, Brenda Zangas.
The shooting Tuesday night raised two possibilities: that guerrillas had adopted a new tactic of posing as police to carry out attacks, or that some members of the security forces being trained by U.S. troops are turning to violence. Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the U.S. commander in Iraq, said it was not yet known if the attackers were disguised as police or the real thing. "They were in police uniforms. We haven't established that it was the police," Sanchez, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, told reporters in Baghdad.
We caught them red-handed. Seems simple enough to me to figure it out.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/12/2004 12:08:41 AM ||
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#1
The shooting Tuesday night raised two possibilities: that guerrillas had adopted a new tactic of posing as police to carry out attacks, or that some members of the security forces being trained by U.S. troops are turning to violence.
Either way, guilt needs to be determined swiftly, and if found guilty, the punishment should be equally swift. I would prefer putting them in front of a firing squad myself.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
