Article

2004-03-02 Iraq

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Paul Moloney 2004-03-02 2:39:16 AM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The deathtoll is now being reported much higher

Posted by Paul Moloney 2004-3-2 6:32:44 AM|| 2004-3-2 6:32:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Al Qaeda is making colossal mistakes because the USA exercised an offensive strategy in the War Against Terrorism. An offensive strategy disperses the enemy, disrupts communications, and causes haste, confusion and panic.

Mistakes compound. The scales tip decisively. The rats flee.

No negotiated settlement. Total victory.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-3-2 7:09:05 AM|| 2004-3-2 7:09:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Total victory? You realize the people blame the U.S. for these attacks?

Our correspondent said anger was turned on anyone regarded as an outsider.

But as American forces arrived at the scene, they were pelted with stones by angry crowds and forced to withdraw.

Sounds like their new strategy is working pretty well so far.

Posted by gromky 2004-3-2 8:44:02 AM|| 2004-3-2 8:44:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Update: At least 125 people were killed and dozens wounded, hospital and police officials said. There were varying reports on the cause of the blasts. Stunned witnesses blamed suicide bombers or planted explosives. But a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad and an Iraqi police spokesman in Karbala reported mortars were fired at the shrines.
In Karbala, 80 kilometres south of Baghdad, five large blasts went off shortly after 10 a.m. local time near two of the most important shrines in Shiite Islam, hurling bodies in all directions and sending crowds of pilgrims fleeing in panic.
Ten bodies that appeared to be dead were loaded onto wooden carts and taken away. Bodies ripped apart by the force of the blasts lay on the streets.
There were varying accounts on the cause of the explosions in Karbala, where Polish troops are in charge of security. An Iraqi police spokesman said the blasts were caused by suicide attackers, wounding at least 300 people, the Polish news agency PAP reported. But Col. Zdzislaw Gnatowski, a Polish military spokesman in Warsaw, blamed a series of mortars fired into the shrine area.
At about the same time, three explosions rocked the inside and outside of the Kazimiya shrine in Baghdad. Panicked men and women, dressed in black, fled screaming and weeping as ambulances raced to the scene.
Angry mobs hurled stones at U.S. troops who later pulled into the square outside Kazimiya in Humvees and an armoured vehicle. Crowds of enraged survivors swarmed nearby hospitals, some blaming Americans for stirring up religious tensions by launching the war, others blaming al-Qaida or Sunni extremists.
Some witnesses at Kazimiya said the blasts were carried out by suicide bombers. The Kazimiya shrine in northern Baghdad contains the tombs of two other Shiite saints, Imam Mousa Kazem and his grandson Imam Muhammad al-Jawad.
In the southern city Najaf, near Karbala, police found and defused a bomb Monday hidden near the shrine of Imam Ali, the most important Shiite saint, Iraqi Police Capt. Imad Hussein said. Three sticks of dynamite with a timer were stuffed inside a water pipe 30 metres from the shrine, he said, adding if it had gone off, the explosion would have injured or killed many.

All Shiite holy places, almost like they were picked out, or something.

Posted by Steve 2004-3-2 9:03:23 AM|| 2004-3-2 9:03:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Same day as attack on Shiites in pakistan. Now granted, its a Shia holiday (one that had even a few rantburgers stirred up about the flagellants) so maybe its a natural time for Shia-haters to strike, but could it be a coordinated global plan to strike the Shia?

Posted by liberalhawk 2004-3-2 9:51:10 AM|| 2004-3-2 9:51:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 LH,

Many of the Sunnis hate the Shiites and are especially motivated to kill the Shiites during their period of mourning for the 12th Iman but that's not the same as a coordinated strike. Of course there are Sunnis in majority Shiite regions who get persecuted during other periods.

all in a day's work for the RoP

Posted by mhw 2004-3-2 9:57:50 AM|| 2004-3-2 9:57:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Angry mobs hurled stones at U.S. troops who later pulled into the square outside Kazimiya in Humvees and an armoured vehicle. Crowds of enraged survivors swarmed nearby hospitals, some blaming Americans for stirring up religious tensions by launching the war, others blaming al-Qaida or Sunni extremists.

How many of these guys are rabble-rousers specifically sent to stir up trouble? Can we be certain that these guys are the relatives of the dead? If I were a terrorist planner, the after-action festivities would be the most important part of the bombing. If the terrorists can show the news cameras that Americans aren't welcome in Iraq, maybe the American public will clamor for a withdrawal.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-3-2 10:24:36 AM|| 2004-3-2 10:24:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 The media have also been known to exaggerate the scale of events. Note the hysterical media coverage of the Israeli raid on Jenin.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-3-2 10:26:24 AM|| 2004-3-2 10:26:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Update: Simultaneous explosions ripped through crowds of worshippers Tuesday at Shiite Muslim shrines in Baghdad and the city of Karbala, killing at least 143 people on the holiest day of the Shiite calendar, a U.S. official said. It was the bloodiest day since the end of major fighting. The blasts came during the Shiite festival of Ashoura and coincided with a shooting attack on Shiite worshippers in Quetta, Pakistan that killed at least 29 people and wounded more than 150.
Three suicide bombers set off their explosives in and around Baghdad's Kazimiya shrine, killing 58 and wounding 200, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt told reporters. At least one suicide attacker blew himself up and pre-set explosives went off in Karbala, killing 85 and wounding more than 100, he said.
A fourth suicide bomber whose explosives did not detonate was captured at Kazimiya, and four people were arrested in connection to the attack in Karbala, Kimmitt told reporters in Baghdad.

Caught a live one, squeeze him dry and hand him to the Iraqis for trial.

Iraq's Governing Council blamed the attacks on "terrorists" seeking to enflame sectarian divisions in the country. In a show of unity, Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish council representatives appeared before journalists, calling on Iraqis to maintain calm "in order to cheat our enemies of the chance to inflict evil on the nation."

Posted by Steve 2004-3-2 10:27:16 AM|| 2004-3-2 10:27:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 fourth suicide bomber whose explosives did not detonate was captured

If he's a Sunni, all hell is going to break loose.

Posted by Charles 2004-3-2 11:43:31 AM|| 2004-3-2 11:43:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Sounds like a full scale race riot

Posted by Lucky 2004-3-2 11:50:08 AM|| 2004-3-2 11:50:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Zawahiri is executing his strategy. Will it start a religious war between the Sunnis and Shia or will we be able to turn that anger against foreigners and Islamism?

Posted by 11A5S 2004-3-2 2:07:03 PM|| 2004-3-2 2:07:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 I believe you mean Zarkawi, 11A5S.

Fortunately we publicized the letter attributed to him so today's events (carried out on a Shiite holy day) play into the narrative of an ongoing campaign by Al Queda and FRLs to drive a wedge between the Sunni and Shia so that the Americans will choose to leave rather than act as a referee.

This was always a bad idea. If we play our cards right, we'll get more cooperation from the Shia and can use it as leverage to keep the Sunni in line. This is already happening to a degree.

Hopefully we see even more enthusiasm by the Shia for joining the Iraqi police and military in hopes of dominating these institutions. The Sunni will in turn better understand that the US is the only force protecting the Sunni minority in Iraq from a now even angrier Shia majority. At the same time, our role in bringing about a Shiite majority state with reasonable degree of political freedom may have 2nd order benefits in Iran.

I'm not saying today's news is good, only that we can make the best of it.

Posted by JAB 2004-3-2 6:37:06 PM|| 2004-3-2 6:37:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 "How many of these guys are rabble-rousers specifically sent to stir up trouble?"

All of them.

Didja ever notice when the Chinese dig a child out of a collapsed well, someone always shows up with 1000 brand new shovels - and there's always some guy there that speaks about 'all pulling together' in perfect unaccented english?

Posted by Rawsnacks 2004-3-2 8:54:13 PM|| 2004-3-2 8:54:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 time to flush the Syrian toilet.

Make Assad the first turd gone.

Posted by anymouse 2004-3-2 11:51:50 PM|| 2004-3-2 11:51:50 PM|| Front Page Top

15:49 rkb
01:53 B
00:03 Anonymous2U
23:51 anymouse
23:46 Stephen
23:42 Tibor
23:41 Tibor
23:31 Grunter
23:15 JAB
23:08 Super Hose
23:01 Garrison
22:56 JAB
22:54 Super Hose
22:49 Mike Sylwester
22:48 Super Hose
22:48 Pappy
22:47 Alaska Paul
22:42 Super Hose
22:40 Alaska Paul
22:28 Super Hose
22:25 Hyper
22:24 Alaska Paul
22:18 Frank G
22:17 Bomb-a-rama