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| Bombing clues point to Islamist terrorists | ||||
| 2004-03-12 | ||||
U.S. officials cited circumstantial evidence yesterday that Islamist terrorists may have been behind the bombings in Madrid, but cautioned it is too early to tell whether al Qaeda or one of its affiliates was responsible.
Intelligence assessments of the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades vary, and some intelligence officials believe the group may exist in name only. One senior intelligence official said the group has no proven connection to bin Laden. It is not "a known terrorist organization," the official said, but rather an individual or group that has tried to take credit for other actions. The group claimed responsibility last year for the November bombings of two synagogues in Turkey and the August bombing of a Marriott hotel. In its e-mail yesterday to the al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper, the group also claimed it was behind Mondayâs attacks on a Masonic lodge in Istanbul. The letter, which dubbed the Madrid explosions "Operation Death Trains," called the attacks "a way to settle old accounts with Spain, crusader and ally of America in its war against Islam." The letter also warned that "the expected âWinds of Black Deathâ strike against America is now in its final stage."
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| Posted by:Dan Darling |
| #61 The train bombing COULD be ETA's attempt to weaken the government of Spain (i.e. the act was geared to increase dissatisfaction among the general population for Spain's association with US re: Iraq--but then, the Spaniards aren't exactly the French, or are they??? re: ETA). Or it COULD be AQ, OR a hybrid just "doing their thing" and feeling "big" (not) about it (i.e. the truly emasculated ones and their followers exercising personal pathologies at the expense of the innocent). My bet is on the Islamics--it just has that âIâm an Arab, hear me roarâ feel to it. My second choice would be an âIâll scratch your back/you scratch mineâ Islamic alliance with the ETA (thank you rkb--the world IS getting more and more unpredictable and weird). Time will tell. If it is ETA, they certainly arenât taking any credit for their âspectacular successâ which means either it wasnât them, or it was, and that theyâre after an indirect political goal as mentioned. GARRISON: Ah . . . the ever-elusive "FACTS"--hard to come by at times--so many players. Iâm with you, though. Awaiting the FACTS. I like facts. Iâd like the facts about this incident and a lot of other things, too. But, Iâm probably in for a long wait. Keep us posted if you hear anything. And calm down, okay? Everyone is just voicing opinions here, and so far, no one has the âFACTSâ --at least that we know of (except those that perpetrated the crime.) I liked your posting #34. âALARM! ALARM! BIG BAD GB!!!â Itâs all HIS fault! Vote J.F.K. (not) Kerry! . . . signed, The American Amoral-for-the-most-part Socialist Media Machine. ANTIWAR: Sure, everything has a "cause and effect," and perspectives control interpretations of political events and history. But you betray either your true loyalties, or your confusion, when you harp like a marxist about "colonialism" and "invasion" as some kind of purported explanation (or is it justification?) for the macabre work of todayâs terrorists. Would you be willing to be consistent and say, then, that the US also is justified for seeking to take out the multinational terrorists for INVADING New York City and Washington D.C. on 9/11, with the stated purpose of COLONIZING the world for Islam? Is it okay with you if WE fight back to defend ourselves against their oppression and tyranny--the unfair imposition of their will on us? Or did the US somehow deserve the attacks, as âgood olâ boy Billâ claimed? If you are a political/moral relativist, you would HAVE to say that any and all of us who oppose terrorism are "freedom fighters" and any and all of the terrorists are also "freedom fighters"--that perspective is the only constant, and nobody is in the right. They killed our people, and itâs understandable--and visa versa--or was it that we killed them first and theyâre going to kill us back, or--who started it anyway? OR, you'd have to come clean about your own philosophical underpinnings, motivations, and political opinions/aims. In other words, either there is a (albeit complex) foundation for what's right and wrong in the world regarding war ( and you have a motive and opinion which you havenât shared), or it's every âfreedom fighterâ for him(her)self, and may the best win (who do YOU think should win, antiwar? Which warriors do you support?) I think America âfor all its faults,â and itâs allies, should win at this point in history. If you doubt it, try living in an Islamic or Marxist state, WITHOUT being one of the rich power mongers, or a political manager, or a woman. Just a word about the terrorists--they are black and white thinkers to the extreme. Did you know that? And why is it that they never focus on US military targets? If you donât know, I do: These clowns used to tell me that they want average âAmericansâ to ârise upâ against their government and demand redress for the grievances against the Arab people, blah, blah, blah . . . They believe that if they keep blowing us up, that we will get fed up with being killed and have a revolution to adopt a new government favorable to them or better yet, an Islamic brand of socialism. Interesting, too, that the âArab peopleâ (i.e. the terrorists) also never focus on their OWN governments and problems. Itâs SO much easier to blame the US. And they become so popular among their peers. Not to mention that thereâs a lot of much money to be made going ape sh-t against the US. Plus, they get to spend some quality time out of their nappy countries. The REAL AND FINAL political/personal aim ( and it IS just this simple--ACCORDING TO THEM) is to overthrow or weaken America so that they can get the Jews out of Palestine. Period. DG: Sick little games for sick little minds--full of themselves and a few unmentionable other things . . . no excuse & Secret Master: Right on! Right on! |
| Posted by: ex-lib 2004-3-12 6:36:30 PM |
| #60 Apologies for the foul language there - Antiwar/Proterrorist pushed me to the limit. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-3-12 6:00:53 PM |
| #59 Antiwar: Years ago I had a girlfriend from Galway. She was cute as a button, smart as a whip, and Catholic as the Pope but the one time I asked her about the IRA her only comment was "bloody bunch of murderers." She knew it, I know it, and you know it too. A soldier only fights other soldiers, killing when he must and sparing innocent life wherever and whenever he can. Terrorists murder people indiscriminately. They kill children, soldiers, and civilians with an equal disregard for human life, often even their own. Some people like to call terrorists "freedom fighters" but true freedom fighters, like for example George Washington, are soldiers. The terrorists of the IRA are not. It's such a simple concept that I often have a hard time understanding why some people don't grasp it. I suspect that you would be one of those people Oh, and I don't think the terrorists (or their apologists) like our president very much at all. If they did, why would they continue to endorse John Kerry? He's already got Islamic Jihad's vote! |
| Posted by: Secret Master 2004-3-12 4:57:43 PM |
| #58 Antiwar, Bulldog is right. There is no "cause" for terrorist murder except that the terrorists are EVIL. "Why do they hate us?" Who the hell cares?! They either need to get over it and put down their arms or prepare to meet "Allah." End of story. President Bush is an outstanding CoC and terrorists fear him which is as it should be. |
| Posted by: Jennie Taliaferro 2004-3-12 2:14:23 PM |
| #57 Bulldog you suck syphilitic penises. Right I never said I supported terrorists/ism ,I merely said we need to look at the cause of it not just the symptoms. BTW if I apologise for terrorists why am I against Bush? If I were a terrorist I would think he is a good president which I dont. |
| Posted by: Antiwar 2004-3-12 1:11:00 PM |
| #56 Link |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-3-12 1:00:09 PM |
| #55 Antiwar: Why don't you contact the relatives of these people and tell them why they deserved violent deaths. Some Protestant, some Catholic. Have a good look at their faces then come back here and reiterate your support for the men who murdered them. You apologise for terrorists and you are beneath contempt. You are a cunt. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-3-12 12:57:07 PM |
| #54 Terrorism is the deliberate massacre of civilian men, wome and children to achieve a political aim. Period. If it is a 'symptom' of anything, it is of the terrorist's egotistic stance that his belief and any real or imagined grievances are more important than the lives of ordinary people, whom he is more than happy to maim, kill or drive into constant fear. Scum. |
| Posted by: no excuse 2004-3-12 12:24:34 PM |
| #53 Yes it could be Al Queda. Or maybe not.Time will tell. Howard btw maybe the IRA would leave you alone if Blair returned Northern Ireland to its rightful owners. Ireland united not divided,in case anyone is wondering I was born in Southern Ireland. I digressed there I know but terrorism is a symptom of a much more complex issue like colonialism and invasion of nations. |
| Posted by: Antiwar 2004-3-12 11:57:50 AM |
| #52 Just reported on Boortz that Madrid was 911 days since 911. |
| Posted by: DG 2004-3-12 10:42:54 AM |
| #51 Amen MJH! |
| Posted by: Lil Dhimmi 2004-3-12 10:27:01 AM |
| #50 mjh: And the shooter needs to be found and brought to justice (e.g. EXECUTED). Spain has no death penalty. Not having a death penalty is a condition of EU membership. Will this nudge the Euros into re-introducing the hangman's noose? I wouldn't hold my breath... |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-3-12 10:17:58 AM |
| #49 I personally don't give a shit whether this attack was the work of AQ or ETA, both groups are terrorists and need to be pursued and eliminated. The argument above is like arguing whether a man who has been shot died from blood loss or trauma...it doesn't matter, he's still dead. And the shooter needs to be found and brought to justice (e.g. EXECUTED). |
| Posted by: mjh 2004-3-12 8:47:03 AM |
| #48 The CNN commenter has only to read Arana's (the ideologue of Basque nationalism) racist texts to understand how little a non-Basque live matters to a hardcore Etarra. Besides since when marxists have cared for the working class? One only has to remind the woeful state of the Sanitary Corps in the Red Army (leading to the death of hundreds of thousands of Eta not willing to harm members of the working class because they are marxists? Only on CNN. |
| Posted by: JFM 2004-3-12 8:41:03 AM |
| #47 Darn, my comment #46 went without the embedded link. Paul's post is here. |
| Posted by: rkb 2004-3-12 8:38:08 AM |
| #46 I think we're seeing the very ominous trend of various terror networks cooperating, despite having differing ideologies / rationales. Paul Moloney's post on ETA buying Stingers and getting training from al Qaeda shows that we can no longer assume what any given group will or won't do. |
| Posted by: rkb 2004-3-12 8:36:20 AM |
| #45 There was a terrorism expert on CNN claiming the bombers could not have been ETA due to the bombs having gone of in working class neighborhoods. The Marxist ETA would never bomb working people. Abject stupidity. A terrorist willing to leave a bomb to go off in a public place does not give a damn who she kills. And the bombs were not planted in neighborhoods. They were planted on commuter trains and -- according to some reports -- in train stations. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 8:17:47 AM |
| #44 Traveller- We are all losing our innocence. It is Europe's turn...this will be a painful process. - Hang on a min.. We've had the IRA trying to blow us up here for the past thirty years. I lost my innocence when the IRA tried to blow up my neighbourhood ten years ago. My comment that it's Blair's fault was intended to br I-R-O-N-I-C. Still got my money on ETA though :) Regards, H |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-3-12 7:23:32 AM |
| #43 The issue yesterday was that a number of people, both here at Rantburg and prominent politicans, were assuming it could only be ETA. They were rushing to conclusions in the absence of good evidence and the real issue was the Euros need for ETA to be responsible, because the alternative is that they have to do something about their unassimiliated moslem minorities, and that requires junking large amounts of ideological baggage. |
| Posted by: Phil B 2004-3-12 7:16:03 AM |
| #42 I vote for ETA too, or more likely, some younger fanatical members who have grown in prominence since a large portion of the ETA leadership have been arrested. Virtually every attack Al Qaeda has carried out since it was created have been suicide bombings, even when they weren't necessary for the success of the attacks themselves. According to media accounts i've read, the bombs were placed by people who left the trains before they went off. That sounds like the actions of someone who didn't want to die. I think that the inspiration for this attack probably came from Al Qaeda, since their brand of nihilistic slaughter is pretty popular with extremists of all types. |
| Posted by: Paul Moloney 2004-3-12 6:28:25 AM |
| #41 A couple of good posts here. I don't feel I need to "apologize" to anyone who assumed right off that this had to be done by al Qaeda. As others have posted, there are plenty of other groups who can pull of this sort of atrocity and have done so in the past. Now - it might indeed be an al-Q affiliate that did this. Or it might not. Or, most ominously, Europe may be seeing the merger or at least close cooperation of previously unrelated terror networks, as may be happening in South America. I'll reaffirm what I wrote yesterday: I think it's a huge mistake to assume that all violence of this sort is perpetrated only by the network of terror groups, some more closely linked and some more loosely so, that call themselves al-Qaeda. If we were to think that, then we might think the proper response is a law enforcement effort. But if we realize that the stability and democratic institutions of the civilized world are under attack, we will properly treat this as war, and respond appropriately. Kudos to Jennie etc. if you turn out to be right - but "owe you an apology"?? Ummm .... time to take yourselves a little less seriously guys. [smile] Robin, with the obligatory multiple graduate degrees, none of which are in counter-terrorism |
| Posted by: rkb 2004-3-12 6:27:41 AM |
| #40 Oh Howard, this isn't Blair's Fault, or Bush's or Kerry's when he's elected President (....lol). This has been around for a while, it's just that the means and manners of ALL Terrorist/Murderers (I am coming to detest the phrase, "militants,"), is becoming more virulent, more vicious, far more deadly. It doesn't matter if it was ETA or Al-Q or some Algerian splinter group...they are all cut from the same cloth...they move freely among us...and they intend to kill us. What I find interesting is the twisting that so many people are doing to avoid there being shown any possible Arabic connection. Of course we must wait for the facts...and yet all this foolery about the Koranic tapes and detenators being left behind as just being too stupid to be Jahadi...is strange. It bespeaks more of the writer's large emotional investment in maintaining a lost innocence than any seeking for the truth of the matter. (My business is fixing things when people do the most incredibly stupid stuff...and I like people...but doing stupid things is the norm for humankind not the exception...lol). Leaving behind detinators and tapes? Sounds just about like what a 9/11 hijacker did leaving a rental car at the airport...Stupid? Not really, this is how people behave under intense stress. We are all losing our innocence. It is Europe's trun...this will be a painful process. No Surprises here. Be Good, |
| Posted by: Traveller 2004-3-12 6:18:15 AM |
| #39 PS. I reserve judgement on whether it was ETA, AQ, or a combination of terrorist orgs. The Spanish have ETA culprits transporting explosives and the Dec. attempted train bombing. I hope they get interrogated with extreme prejudice. There are too many lives at stake to play Mr. Nice Cop with such vermin. As far as I am concerned, their lives are forfeit the moment they joined the the terrorist org. |
| Posted by: ed 2004-3-12 5:54:06 AM |
| #38 As long as everyone else is taking a punt, so will I. I think it was ETA with prossibly some help from some Muslim group like Al-Qa'ida. The material used is ETA. The Spanish police claim that ETA was planning a major attack for some time. The timing is very close to the spanish elections. If Al-Qa'ida had done it we would have seen a sucide bomber involved somewhere. We would also have received some earlier cryptic warning. Also generally Al-Qa'ida does not take responsibilty for the operations. When they do its only after a long period of time. |
| Posted by: Bernardz 2004-3-12 5:50:37 AM |
| #37 Garrison, When was the last time al-Qaida used dynamite placed in backpacks? The first Bali bomb in the Sari nightclub was a backpack bomb. When patrons from the clubs evacuated to the street, the main car bomb was detonated |
| Posted by: ed 2004-3-12 5:45:25 AM |
| #36 Same here in the Uk - if it was AQ then it's all Blair's fault for supporting Bush in Irag. Gives the anti-war crew something to bleat about. ETA trying to shit stir methinks. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-3-12 5:05:02 AM |
| #35 I have been watching the Spanish TV roundtables. A journalist claims to have interviewed some of the wounded who told her they noticed a guy "forgetting" his rucksack. The journalist did not mention peple telling her the perpetrators looking Arab. Notice that this is not a proof, only a slight hint. |
| Posted by: JFM 2004-3-12 5:04:08 AM |
| #34 What I object to in the news reports prematurely linking al-Qa'ida to the bombing rampage in Spain is they ultimalely seek to pin the blame for the terror attacks on President Bush for waging his "silly" war on terrorism and the state sponsors of terrorism. The reporters and commentators and news readers imply, "If only President Bush had turned the other cheek after receiving the slap on 11 September 2001 and forgiven America's enemies, all those people killed or injured in Spain on Thursday would be alive and well today." |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 4:46:42 AM |
| #33 Listening to BBC Radio 4 this morning, the guy from Al-Quds who received a letter from Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades on behalf of AQ sounded like all his Eids had come at once... just hope he and his family are on the tube when they blow that up. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-3-12 4:29:50 AM |
| #32 I still put my money on ETA, and that truck with the Qoran doesn't change much. The attack bears the handwriting of a radicalized ETA faction that has learned a few things from islamist terror. So what about the truck? 1) Could have been placed by ETA to confuse investigation 2) Could have been placed by some Muslim group to claim the attack 3) Could have been placed by shady Spanish political figures (leftist rather) to steer the election their way 4) Could have been placed by CIA/Mossad to get Europe more involved in WOT (/sarcasm off on the last one, please) All I'm saying is: Jumping to conclusions now is premature. But there is a pattern of terrorist organisation going from very small, targeted attacks to indiscriminate bloodshed. This happened with the Palis, happened with other groups when they saw they were getting nowhere. Could as well have happened to some etarras. It has happened to nation warfare, too. Remember that Germany started to bomb England when it lost the war over British airspace. Europe hasn't closed her eyes to jihadi terror. We all know that it's going to happen here. The Strasbourg Christmas market attack was foiled in the last minute. Would have been a carnage. |
| Posted by: True German Ally 2004-3-12 3:56:36 AM |
| #31 You know it doesn't matter,ETA, AQ,PLO,Hamas,every other abbreviated terror group there all quilty kill them all. |
| Posted by: djohn66 2004-3-12 3:40:47 AM |
| #30 JFM: Good posting. The news account of detonators and a tape with Koranic verses reportedly on the frontseat of a van at the nexis of the attack appears too obvious. The Spanish terror attack occurring precisely 911 days -- as reported in the blogosphere -- after America's Bloody Tuesday seems too obvious on the face of it. TERROR MIND THINKING: Asnar has been tough on the ETA. There is an election on Sunday. Asnar's political alliance might be harmed politically by an al-Qaida attack due to his support for the unpopular liberation of Iraq. A weakened or distracted Asnar might releave pressure on ETA. TERRORISTS tend to be STUPID. By using mostly Saudi terrorists, Usama tried to pin 9/11 on Saudi Arabia hoping President Bush would attack Saudi Arabia. I do believe the perpetrators will be identified shortly and the perpetrators will know BACKLASH. I await the FACTS. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 3:25:31 AM |
| #29 The key is: if people think is ETA there will be a backslash against those who are perceived as soft pr friendly to terrorists. But if people think it is Al Quaida there will be a backslash againt those who involved Spain in Irak ie the same people who brought ETA to its knees. That is why I strongly believe that a not completely stupid ETA would try to make the operation politically profitable. Like by remaining silent and planting clues pointing to Islamic terrorism. Now about this not being the MO of ETA, there was a time in the 50s and 60s when ETA was a honorable organization who never went for innocent targets and who, when collecting money, made clear to prospects that people not sharing their ideas were free to not pay. But these times are long over. The facts are: 1) ETA has tried to cause a 9/11 in 2000. So much for ETA does not try to cause mass casualties. 2) Police has been intercepting vast quantities of explosives aiming for Madrid during the last weeks. And the people who were shipping them were Basque not Arabs 3) Al Quaida mount suicide operations. Its people are indoctrinated that this a great way to get sex for eternity. Here we have had 13 bombs and no one has remained to claim his 72 virgins. |
| Posted by: JFM 2004-3-12 3:10:13 AM |
| #28 Excellent posting, Pete. Motivations and alliances and events are rarely black and white. I have read articles previously on the emerging anti-globalist, anti-Western, anti-capitalist Red/Green/Brown alliance. Thank you for the links. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 3:06:31 AM |
| #27 Garrison, Jennie, Phil: All of you might be correct. This younger, more radicalized faction of the ETA may in fact have trained with al Qaeda. ETA might be doing errands, like moving explosives around, on al Qaeda's behalf. More here. Some of these leftest terror groups need a patron. The USSR is dead and gone. Carlos the Jackal has converted to Islam. And check your medieval maps. After all, Naverre was never conquered by the Muslims. |
| Posted by: Pete Stanley 2004-3-12 2:55:37 AM |
| #26 Cingold you wrote, "Now, IMO I think it was the AQ, for sure...." Cingold you wrote, "Who is jumping to conclusions?" YOU! Haaahaha.....Jennie: It has been my experience when INTELLIGENT people show up at a message board and question the assertions of regulars, folk like you have nothing much to offer other than calling the individual a TROLL. There is nothing more TEDIOUS and LAZIER than namecalling. You do not impress. I await the FACTS. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 2:53:51 AM |
| #25 Garrison, I officially crown you RB's newest, most tedious troll and laziest. Here's your crown of TP and Heinz pickles! But I DEMAND the return of Muck4doo!! If we are to have a resident troll here, no-one out-trolls the Muckster. |
| Posted by: Jennie Taliaferro 2004-3-12 2:44:23 AM |
| #24 Phil B: You are a terrorism expert with significant knowledge of coordinated attack on transportation. I am recalling yet another coordinated terrorist attack on transportation that occurred way back before I was born. BLACK SEPTEMBER rings a bell. Four or five hijacked airliners come to mind. Could my vague recollection be linked to a coordinated attack on transportation perpetrated when Usama was but a wee spout? |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 2:42:16 AM |
| #23 Spooooky. I await the FACTS. To catch a crook, you have to learn the mind of a crook. I imagine the same is true of malignant, vile islamofascists. Start with some observations, analyze them, and then synthesize your analyses (then rinse, and repeat) -- it's called critical thinking, and it's fun . . . It is great fun for ME not jumping to conclusions. Who is jumping to conclusions? I was just thinking out loud . . . |
| Posted by: cingold 2004-3-12 2:37:20 AM |
| #22 First off...a very good thread. 2nd, thanks Jennie for the reality check regarding the Kerry chunks....you know of which I speak. On the surface...what does ETA gain from this? It doesn't fit their M.O. Their targets have usually been specific in nature...i.e. individuals in position of power. This was a well coordinated strike. We all need to wait until the facts are in on this. In the meantime, dust off the MOABs. |
| Posted by: Rex Mundi 2004-3-12 2:35:29 AM |
| #21 We can all get along, Rodney. As long as that does not require jumping to conclusions. I await the FACTS. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 2:30:28 AM |
| #20 Cingold: It is great fun for ME not jumping to conclusions. I am not ready to accept that every terror bombing occurring on the 11th day of a month is al-Qa'ida related. Is it possible every bombing for which al-Qa'ida is believed to have perpetrated from 12 September 2001 to 10 March 2004 did not occur on the 11th day of the month? Spooooky. I await the FACTS. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 2:27:54 AM |
| #19 Why can't we all get along? |
| Posted by: Rodney King 2004-3-12 2:22:45 AM |
| #18 Phil B: I do claim to be RIGHT when I state more than one organization has perpetrated coordinated attacks on transportation. Your assertion AQ was the only such organization was and is WRONG. As for what you recall of BBC coverage, I am not sure what your point may be. I would be astonished to learn that the first thought coursing through the minds of one billion informed people on hearing of a mass casualty bombing anywhere in the West was other than, "Al-Qa'ida". It could have been al-Qa'ida. It could have been ETA. It could have been the folk claiming to have planted bombs on French railway lines reports of which surfaced last week. It could have been some other organization. I await the FACTS. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 2:18:06 AM |
| #17 Garrison, you're not being or having very much fun, are you? Now, IMO I think it was the AQ, for sure: March 11, 2004 --> 2 years and 6 months after Sept. 11, 2001 3 is 6 away from 9 Somebody needs to do a psychological profile on BL if he is not protein paste, and his most likely reserve command structure if he is. This is both anal and infantile, and my guess (accordingly) would be whoever conceived of and planned the 911 event/date. |
| Posted by: cingold 2004-3-12 2:12:30 AM |
| #16 It occurred to me there was a coordinated attack on the Japanese subway system. Presumably, Phil B. will add the organization responsible to his list of ONE organization that has carried out a coordinated terrorist attack on transportation. Of course, I do recall the Chechyns carrying out coordinated attacks on Russia transportation with two or three backpackers toting bombs earlier this year. I just have to wonder how much of a terrorism expert someone is when his list of organizations that have carried out coordinated attacks on transportation is limited to AQ. It seems to me the coordinated attack on transportation is all the rage among terrorist organizations of late: A Japanese cult, Palestinian terrorist organizations, Islamist organizations, Chechyns and so on. I do not believe it takes a genius to argue al-Qa'ida or ETA or some other group is responsible for the terror attacks in Spain. It takes a civil, well-reasoned individual to resist coming to conclusions as he awaits the FACTS. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 2:02:46 AM |
| #15 Given any individual can reason al-Qa'ida might have been involved in the Thursday bombings, what precisely were you RIGHT about? Go back and read my first post and then yesterday's thread and when you in possession of the FACTS come back. BTW I watched the BBC (international) coverage and don't recall any mention of AQ last night. I do recall a whole procession of people saying with complete certainty that it was ETA. |
| Posted by: Phil B 2004-3-12 1:51:17 AM |
| #14 While Garrison is awaiting the FACTS, I'd like to thank Phil and Jennie for their comments on this atrocity both yesterday and today. Your analysis was well thought out and, as is becoming increasingly clear, accurate. Your posts lived up to the Rantburg tag-line "Civil, well-reasoned discourse." |
| Posted by: Scott 2004-3-12 1:46:54 AM |
| #13 Clarification: The global consensus view -- opposed only by the Spanish authorities -- at 3:30 am (CDT) was al-Qa'ida was responsible for the bombings of the Spanish trains. I do not know what the consensus view was prior to 3:30 am (CDT) as I was dozing, but I suspect the very first news report hitting the international media included speculation al-Qa'ida might have been involved. I await the FACTS. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 1:42:36 AM |
| #12 Phil B: I heard of the bombing at or about 3:30 am Thursday from CNN International. The speculation THEN was al-Qa'ida might have been involved. My first thought was al-Qa'ida could be involved. There is nothing special about you guessing al-Qa'ida might have been responsible for the bombing. You are not ahead of any curve. You need to check your ego. As for the BBC: That is a "reputable" source. There is nothing OUT OF LINE about cautioning people to refrain from jumping to conclusions based on news reports. I await the FACTS. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 1:32:36 AM |
| #11 I have one master's degree, Jennie. And I know "master's" requires an apostrophe. Right away I have to question the relevance of your "official book learning". And over the years you have read news stories! Impressive. Then you should know news reports are frequently inaccurate. Very few people with "official book learning" will draw conclusions from news reports. I recall folk with "official book learning" immediately concluding al-Qa'ida was responsible for the anthrax attacks initiated in 2001. And the DC SNIPER ATTACKS had to be perpetrated by a white man who was a loner with connections to the militia movement. Given any individual can reason al-Qa'ida might have been involved in the Thursday bombings, what precisely were you RIGHT about? I await the FACTS. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 1:22:44 AM |
| #10 For what it's worth, I doubt it is ETA. Wanting a Quebec type autonomy or sovereign statehood is a far cry from killing noncombatants (as defined by the West). The only really active group I know of that defines noncombatants (as defined by the West) as combatants is the islamofascists. That is to say, only AQ-type islamofascists are this malignant and evil, IMHO. |
| Posted by: cingold 2004-3-12 1:13:10 AM |
| #9 Garrison I think you are out of line. The fact is Jennie and I were 12 hours ahead on of what is now the consensus view. I just heard on the BBC that the Spanish Interior Ministry now thinks AQ is more likely than ETA. What blogs do well is seperate the facts/evidence from the media's spin and biases and see what other interpretations fit. Thats all we did. BTW, I have more than a little direct experience of terrorism. |
| Posted by: Phil B 2004-3-12 1:11:39 AM |
| #8 Phil B: "Not that we get any real joy from being right," posted Jennie. Replied Phil B., "Your welcome Jennie!" How many çoordinated attacks on public transportation can you attribute to al-Qaida? How many can you attribute to Hamas, Islamic Jihad, al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigrade, and dozens of others that have not been in the news of late? What law of nature mandates a terror group to act only as it has acted previously? Perhaps ETA is learning from its comrade terrorist vermin how best to be heard in the global media. I give more weight to the Spanish authorities than unnamed sources in the media and posters to message boards. I await the FACTS. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 1:04:39 AM |
| #7 Garrison, Phil B and I were basing our opinions not only on the blast news reports but on the many news stories we've read in our lifetimes (I'm 47,don't know about Phil) here at RB, at other fine blogs and of course, publications of all sorts, plus reading books and analysis of events based on all of our collective personal knowledge and experience--that enough for you? And for the record, I have not one, but 2 Masters degrees. That enough official book learning for you? For our comments and reasoning, read the posts on the original Madrid blast story yesterday here at RB. |
| Posted by: Jennie Taliaferro 2004-3-12 12:57:09 AM |
| #6 Jennie: It does not take a genius to GUESS any terror attack anywhere in the world might be the work of Islamic Fascists. You were right about what based on what? You can draw conclusions based only on frequently inaccurate reports put forth in the media. You are not an expert on terrorism. When was the last time al-Qaida used dynamite placed in backpacks? Reports claim a van with detonators and a tape of Koranic verses was found on the FRONTSEAT of a stolen truck. Gee. That seems a bit too obvious. Almost as though a member of ETA planted the "evidence" to throw the authorities off their trail. ETA has murdered 850 people. What's a few hundred more to such vermin? I await the FACTS. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 12:48:11 AM |
| #5 Garrison I don't pretend that I know who is responsible. All I was doing was pointing out the rush to blame ETA was striking, including the UNSC resolution. If were to make a list of organizations known to perform coordinated attacks on transportation. I have a list of one - AQ. If were to make a list of organizations who systematically attack public transportation I would have three. Two of which are now defunct. The other is paleo boomers operating under various brand names. Your welcome Jennie! |
| Posted by: Phil B 2004-3-12 12:46:05 AM |
| #4 Phil B: We are not privy to the evidence gathered up to now. I variously read Spanish authorities had collected intel a major ETA attack was coming from a younger and more radicalized faction within the ETA, finger prints linked bombing evidence to known ETA terrorists, an ETA-linked van was recently found packed with explosives of the type thought to be used in the Thursday bombings, and ETA-linked backpacks similar to those thought to be used in Thursday's bombing were found in train stations in December. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 12:34:16 AM |
| #3 I quite agree, Phil, and I got attacked with you for the same reasons. The "guilty" know who they are. Not that we get any real joy for being right, but it's just not fun to be attacked for calm, cool reasoning! I like sharing your company, though, PB! |
| Posted by: Jennie Taliaferro 2004-3-12 12:28:26 AM |
| #2 The folks in the media are certainly going to significant links to "award credit" to Islamic Fascist terrorists for terror attacks described as punishment to Spain for her alliance with America. It is almost obscenely, lustfully, fawningly obsessive how the media is arguing the case for al-Qa'ida. It is almost as though the global free media desperately wants al-Qa'ida to be the bombers out of hope such a link will somehow adversely effect President Bush. The current doings of the dominant media are more sickening to behold than usual. I await presentation of FACT before coming to a conclusion. Meanwhile, Usama and his minions bask in the glow of billions of dollars in free publicity. |
| Posted by: Garrison 2004-3-12 12:26:02 AM |
| #1 Dynamite discovered in connection with the attacks, which was first labeled as being the same type used by ETA, is widely available commercially and has not been used by the Basque terrorist group for many years The explosives used were the only real (supposedly) evidence that it was ETA. I think a couple of people owe me an apology after I was attacked for pointing last night (for me) that the rush to blame ETA had more to do with Euro need for it not to have it be Islamofascists even though this looked like a jihadi atrocity. |
| Posted by: Phil B 2004-3-12 12:17:17 AM |
