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2007-07-02 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

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Posted by Steve White 2007-07-02 00:00|| || Front Page|| [1 views ] Top
File under: Fatah

#1 I suppose this might not be the worst idea. Better though would be to relocate them and give them buildings in which to play games of chance.

Posted by Mike N. 2007-07-02 00:15|| 2007-07-02 00:15|| Front Page Top

#2 I agree with Steve's highlighted sentiment.

Posted by twobyfour 2007-07-02 02:22|| 2007-07-02 02:22|| Front Page Top

#3 "games of chance"

Russian Roullette?

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2007-07-02 07:29|| 2007-07-02 07:29|| Front Page Top

#4 Russian Roullette?

Nope: "guess the right wire".

Posted by gromgoru 2007-07-02 09:14|| 2007-07-02 09:14|| Front Page Top

#5 "...Security forces in Gaza were told they would be paid only if they stayed home and refused to work under Hamas command."

like being paid not to grow corn

Posted by mhw 2007-07-02 09:49|| http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]">[http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/] 2007-07-02 09:49|| Front Page Top

#6 Well then Steve seems to be in agreement with a number of leftie commentators, who say that Hamas support on the West Bank is considerable, that Fatah is divided and incompetent, and that Hamas will inevitably beat Fatah on the WB as well. (And of course its not just Steve, as far as I know Bibi and lots of other well-informed non-lefty people hold that as well)

Well it MAY be true. I think the chance that Fayed and Abbas can make it through are worth the costs of the measures proposes so far. And the "hasbara" (PR) value is important.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2007-07-02 10:06|| 2007-07-02 10:06|| Front Page Top

#7 "Israel is committed to ... strengthening the new (Palestinian) government

The very same "Palestinian government" that is publically and privately committed to destroying Israel--how nice of the Israelis. This is bad craziness.

Posted by Crusader 2007-07-02 10:49|| 2007-07-02 10:49|| Front Page Top

#8 '"Palestinian government" that is publically and privately committed '

The Fayed govt is not publically commited to the destruction of Israel.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2007-07-02 11:05|| 2007-07-02 11:05|| Front Page Top

#9 LH, I'm not convinced that the Fayed gummint is committed to anything other than 1) it's own survival and 2) death to the Joooz.

Fayed doesn't have to say he's committed to the destruction of Israel -- all his fellow Paleos understand. Note that he hasn't said anything about a two-state solution, foregoing the right of return, etc. Any of those things would be a death sentence and thus violate rule #1, above.

I am in agreement with those who say that Fatah is incompetent -- they're the old boys who were there to help Arafat hold and divide the boodle. They know little about fighting and thus got their asses well and truly kicked. If they have a shoot-out with Hamas in the West Bank, they'll lose there as well. I don't know if that's 'left' or 'right', but it does seem to be reality.

Public relations has its place, of course, but throwing money at Fatah seems (to me, at least) do delay the necessary day of reckoning when the average Palestinian finally decides that he/she has been well and truly beaten, and it's time to have a true peace.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2007-07-02 13:20|| 2007-07-02 13:20|| Front Page Top

#10 "LH, I'm not convinced that the Fayed gummint is committed to anything other than 1) it's own survival and 2) death to the Joooz."

I see no particular evidence they are committed to 2.

"Fayed doesn't have to say he's committed to the destruction of Israel -- all his fellow Paleos understand."

I disagree.

"Note that he hasn't said anything about a two-state solution,"

I'll have to do some googling. My understanding is he has. Certainly Abbas has accepted Oslo, and the Road Map, and my impression was the the new govt had done so explicitly as well.

" foregoing the right of return, etc."

We've been over that before. Its a bargaining chip, one of the few the Pals have. They are not going to give it up BEFORE negotiations. They will give it up (except for some face saving device) as part of negotiations, in exchange for something else.

"Any of those things would be a death sentence and thus violate rule #1, above."

Well again, Abbas has explicitly accepted a two state solution.

"I am in agreement with those who say that Fatah is incompetent -- they're the old boys who were there to help Arafat hold and divide the boodle. They know little about fighting and thus got their asses well and truly kicked. If they have a shoot-out with Hamas in the West Bank, they'll lose there as well. I don't know if that's 'left' or 'right', but it does seem to be reality."

Hamas didnt have much experience with conventional war either. Yeah they won in Gaza. Again, thats the center of their strength. And Dahlan, Fatahs man in Gaza, was absent.

I obviously cant guarantee Fatah can beat Hamas on the WB. I dont think one can generalize from Gaza, though. And I do think the idea is to weaken Hamas so much, they cant even get to that point.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2007-07-02 13:52|| 2007-07-02 13:52|| Front Page Top

#11 BTW, need I remind everyone, that when folks here were talking about popcorn, and looking forward (implicitly) to an extended Pal Civil war, I indicated that Civil Wars are often won? Who here predicted IN ADVANCE that Hamas would blow away Fatah?

Posted by Liberalhawk 2007-07-02 13:58|| 2007-07-02 13:58|| Front Page Top

#12 When considering the Paleos, betting on the worst possible outcome is always easy money, LH.

But just because Fatah was the weaker devil does not make it an angel.

Posted by Grumenk Philalzabod0723 2007-07-02 18:45|| 2007-07-02 18:45|| Front Page Top

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