Article

2007-07-01 Britain

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Fred 2007-07-01 00:00|| || Front Page|| [5 views ] Top
File under: al-Qaeda in Britain

#1 The Haymarket is one of the most closely monitored areas in the world. Westminster Council has 160 24-hour CCTV cameras trained across the area.

Yet, even this level of surveillance cannot discourage the murderous assaults of Islamic terrorists. What does this say for the prospects of thwarting (what shall soon become), everyday terrorism?

Police are appalled by the threat of car bombs because of their destructive power.

Yet, they remain even more appalled at daring to connect the dots between their Muslim population and the near-constant threat of vicious atrocities.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-07-01 02:31|| 2007-07-01 02:31|| Front Page Top

#2 Yet, even this level of surveillance cannot discourage the murderous assaults

But it did enable them to catch the perp quickly.

Prevention of terrorism is very difficult, as is prevention of most crime, which is why the emphasis (re crime) is on detection.

Posted by phil_b 2007-07-01 03:01|| 2007-07-01 03:01|| Front Page Top

#3 Rapid detection, pursuit and arrest following a crime is fine when you are trying to catch bank robbers or drug pushers. Also, the high arrest and conviction rates can discourage potential perpetrators.

But suicidal terrorists do not fear any punishment the law can inflict so the efficacy of law enforcement will not discourage them. And since their objective is to inflict as much carnage and destruction as possible, it is critical to stop them before they can carry out their mission.

This will require a change in approach far beyond making our law enforcement capabilities more robust. It requires a combination of things which are already extant to various degrees:

1. Secure borders
2. National ID cards
3. Domestic surveillance
4. Denial of national entry to those with an undesirable ideology (or theology) linked to terrorism
5. Political, economic and military interdiction abroad in failed states/state sponsors of terrorism and possibly targeted killings of foreign terrorist planners/agents based on intel

Sadly, a number of highly lethal attacks will probably take place in our Western nations before sufficiently serious countermeasures are taken. The lesson I take from the events of the past few days is that we have collectively made strides in security but our greatest ally has been luck and the incompetence of our enemy.

Posted by Grumenk Philalzabod0723 2007-07-01 04:03|| 2007-07-01 04:03|| Front Page Top

#4 Prevention of terrorism is very difficult

Especially if you refuse to remove Muslims from within your society. Any bets on terrorism dropping by over 90% in a society where there are no Muslims? You bet this is nasty. Guess what? Terrorism is even nastier and there must be an end to it. Muslims are the single largest source of terrorism and until they themselves begin doing something to reverse that statistic, they should be excluded from civilized society.

But suicidal terrorists do not fear any punishment the law can inflict so the efficacy of law enforcement will not discourage them. And since their objective is to inflict as much carnage and destruction as possible, it is critical to stop them before they can carry out their mission.

Which is simply impossible. Open society precludes the opportunity to avert clandestine terrorist attacks. While such measures as secure borders, national ID cards and the like will help reduce terrorist attacks, they cannot ensure against them. Sadly, the absence of Muslims is one of the few things that will reduce terrorist attacks by several orders of magnitude. Were there other equally effective strategies, I would cheerfully support them. Quite simply, there are not. Witness the dramatic reduction in bomb vest attacks now that Israel's security fence excludes the presence of unwanted Muslims.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-07-01 04:33|| 2007-07-01 04:33|| Front Page Top

#5 terrorist Omar Khayam

"A jug of triacetone triperoxide, a loaf of C-4 and thou."

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-07-01 04:38|| 2007-07-01 04:38|| Front Page Top

#6 Just out of curiosity, is there any political party in Britain or the rest of Europe for that matter, that is advocating a serious solution to the "Muslim Problem"? (ie. expelling them).

Posted by CuriousGeorge 2007-07-01 05:07|| 2007-07-01 05:07|| Front Page Top

#7 curious

only the national front in france and BNP in UK.however we are bombarded by BBC types telling us these are hoodlums/extremist.To my mind they are the only ones willing to stand up to the enemy within!!!!

Posted by Paul 2007-07-01 07:09|| 2007-07-01 07:09|| Front Page Top

#8 "We know al-Qaeda-style terrorists have spoken about targeting nightclubs and, specifically, women."

Once the public fully understand this fact, the government had better have taken sterner measures than any that have been tried thus far (in a democracy). It will be lynchings and mass reprisals.

At that point we find out if the power of the State will once again be used to prevent its own citizenry from defending itself as the whole topples into a new islamic Dark Age.

Zenster: I believe you are showing great moderation in your discussion of this latest outrage. My suggestions are currently illegal... One day they will either be mandatory or irrelevant to Rantburg readers as the lot of us shall be dead or fighting on from the hills.

Posted by Excalibur 2007-07-01 07:40|| 2007-07-01 07:40|| Front Page Top

#9 Adding to #3:
6. Separation from muslims by large distances.

Posted by ed 2007-07-01 08:35|| 2007-07-01 08:35|| Front Page Top

#10 But suicidal terrorists do not fear any punishment the law can inflict

Bloody posturing nonsense. There's nothing the terrorists fear more, deep in their hearts, than ending up maimed and in solitary confinement for the rest of their long, long lives. No end to the pain, no virgins at the end of it, and no mates to impress with ever more viciously unrealistic plans for world conquest.

Posted by trailing wife 2007-07-01 08:52|| 2007-07-01 08:52|| Front Page Top

#11 Indeed. It's what they fear most.

Posted by Shipman 2007-07-01 09:39|| 2007-07-01 09:39|| Front Page Top

#12 When it's least expected - you're elected. You're the star today

Smile! You're on Candid Camera!

With a hocus-pocus - you're in focus. It's your lucky day

Smile! You're on Candid Camera!

It's fun to laugh at yourself. It's a tonic, tried and true.

It's fun to laugh at yourself as other people do.

How's your sense of humor? There's a rumor: Laughter's on its way.

Smile! You're on Candid Camera! Smile! You're on Candid Camera!

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-07-01 09:48|| 2007-07-01 09:48|| Front Page Top

#13 Noooooooooooo! 'moose! Nooooooooo, go back to the thousands and thousands of stuff, Allen Funt is take over my Hed!

Posted by Shipman 2007-07-01 09:52|| 2007-07-01 09:52|| Front Page Top

#14 only the national front in france

Nope, nope, nope... the FN base is anti-immigration and anti-islam and would love to have muslim shipped back to their countries, but the FN itself never advocated more than halting immigration and reserving jobs and social services for french (the catch being the immigrants born in France are french too, this ambiguity never was resolved, and was used to try very unsuccessfully to attract the migrant vote this year).

In all aspects, it was assimilationist, and the new strategy it follows since 2002 is to even reduce that to integrationsim, JMLP said during the presidential campaign that he saw islam as a factor of social cohesiveness in the 'hoods, he had a publicized venture into an islamized area to tell the inhabitants they were french, and that he would help them integrate into society.
Of course, this "normalization" of the FN, and its leftization (the party's ideologist and one adviser were part of a symposium recently, with the main guest being a general from venezuela, come to expose the chavez revolution's ideals... think about it, the new reference for the new FN is chavez...) have been badly perceived by the base, all the while sarko was acting like if he was a conservative and a rightwinger, so the FN is in serious decline, and in dire internal crisis and in the way of becoming a cult around the aging and dictatorial JMLP and his spawn (with hindsight, he was a terrible, terrible thing to happen to the white national movement, from his unwillingless to actually try to get in power, to his antisemite bon mots).

Believe me, there's no political party in France that advocate mass expellations. In the current situation, this is IMPOSSIBLE (and like Roger Holeindre, one very interesting FN biggie said, "there's too many of them, and they're french")... and the day it will become possible to advocate it, then, we all will have shifted paradigm, and will be in a whole system/situation altogether. Basically, we'll be in pre-civil & ethnic war. Not a pleasant thought.

Posted by anonymous5089 2007-07-01 11:35|| 2007-07-01 11:35|| Front Page Top

#15 Until there is real peace and powersharing in Ulster, getting rid of all the Muzzies in the UK will not necessarily make the UK safe from terrorism. Their experience with the IRA goes back a lot further than the current crop of terrorists. The IRA even got close to Maggie, remember?

Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back! 2007-07-01 13:45|| 2007-07-01 13:45|| Front Page Top

#16 Good point, JiB. Britain's resolution of The Troubles would finally allow them to decouple any ambiguity as to the origin of future terrorist attacks. Until then I suppose we can always rely upon the bloodyminded Muslims to trumpet their responsibility.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-07-01 14:30|| 2007-07-01 14:30|| Front Page Top

#17 I confess I am bit baffled at what appears to be an ongoing blind spot toward the IRA amongst many Americans. There is no ambiguity about pakistani men shouting "allah". Even the worst of the IRA's attacks - including the ones which discredited them amongst Irish "nationalists" in Ireland if not in the States - were nothing compared to the calculated barbarity of the muslims. For all that the IRA targeted, for example, Harrod's as part of its fatuous armed struggle they never set out to slaughter women in nightclubs, rape schoolchildren or manufacture snuff videos for the internet. The IRA's Catholic fascism-with-a-Marxist-veneer and, for that matter, the Protestant death-squads and their sympathizers in the Ulster security forces maintained still had limits as to what they would do.

But as for the ambiguity: muslims are not subtle and they are not terribly bright. After the fact many will simultaneously claim credit for an attack while blaming it on the Jews (as will the traitor left and the BBC). But the actual culprits almost invariably make a home video for their Orc god before setting out to kill. Aside from a hypersensitive media I doubt any future attack will vary so much in its MO that there will be any lasting doubt as to the authors of the grisly work.

Posted by Excalibur 2007-07-01 14:55|| 2007-07-01 14:55|| Front Page Top

#18 Well now ExMan, it's culturalal thing, once we have the concentrations camps going it'll become all to damn clear for you.

Posted by Shipman 2007-07-01 15:49|| 2007-07-01 15:49|| Front Page Top

#19 Shipman: I have no idea what you mean.

Posted by Excalibur 2007-07-01 17:13|| 2007-07-01 17:13|| Front Page Top

#20 I submit for you the stunning example of the 41,000 Somali's who were admitted to the US legally last year. 95% Sunni, literally from a lawless state with no background checks because none are possible given the fragmented, chaotic, virtually non-existent government there. Further, almost certainly illiterate or marginally educated, clannish to the extreme, experienced in virtually nothing except crime and corruption given the nature of the cultural milieu they come from, and concentrating in Minnesota, San Diego and New Jersey. Gang crime and violence, intolerant behavior towards non-muslims.... do we really want them coming here?

Posted by Just AboutEnough 2007-07-01 17:34|| 2007-07-01 17:34|| Front Page Top

#21 no, we don't. Contact your congresscritter and demand accountability!

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-07-01 17:44|| 2007-07-01 17:44|| Front Page Top

#22 There were quite a few Bantu's from Somalia in Fort Wayne when I lived there from 2000 to 2006. I never noticed their involvement in any gang violence. They were good citizens. Note - there was plent of meth related crime in the rural outskirts and several gang related shootings in the urban areas.

Posted by Super Hose 2007-07-01 17:45|| 2007-07-01 17:45|| Front Page Top

23:57 Mike N.
23:56 Grumenk Philalzabod0723
23:56 Zenster
23:50 twobyfour
23:46 Sherry
23:39 Zenster
23:33 Broadhead6
23:24 Zenster
23:18 Zenster
23:08 twobyfour
23:07 KBK
23:07 trailing wife
23:06 gromgoru
23:03 Broadhead6
22:56 Broadhead6
22:55 gromgoru
22:51 twobyfour
22:49 trailing wife
22:46 trailing wife
22:46 3dc
22:45 twobyfour
22:40 Barbara Skolaut
22:40 twobyfour
22:37 gromgoru