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2006-01-26 Israel-Palestine-Jordan
Fatah sez Hamas Won!
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Posted by phil_b 2006-01-26 03:45|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [6473 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 It will now get nasty.
Guess that's the end of any peace fantasy the Israelis might have had.
The EuNiks must be gloating.
Posted by 3dc 2006-01-26 04:00||   2006-01-26 04:00|| Front Page Top

#2  Olmert said convening special defense session on Hamas win
By Haaretz Service and the Associated Press

Posted by 3dc 2006-01-26 04:16||   2006-01-26 04:16|| Front Page Top

#3 The United States and other members of the international Quartet will reassess peace prospects next week, in light of Hamas' showing in the election.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan and other members of the Quartet of would-be international peacemakers will meet Monday in London, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said.

The Quartet, which also includes the European Union and Russia, is on record against allowing Palestinian Authority cabinet status for anyone who has not renounced violence or recognized Israel's right to exist. Hamas has done neither.
Posted by 3dc 2006-01-26 04:18||   2006-01-26 04:18|| Front Page Top

#4 Hopefully their whole 'country ' will self implode now ..
Posted by MacNails 2006-01-26 04:23||   2006-01-26 04:23|| Front Page Top

#5 If a more hapless breed of people inhabit this earth I am yet to hear of them. F*ckwits one and all.
Posted by Howard UK 2006-01-26 04:40||   2006-01-26 04:40|| Front Page Top

#6 In the past week it has become clear this was some sort of Great Game with the Mullahs. Iran was funding Hamas, we were funding Fatah. Now we've gone and let them win, despite being able to rig the ballot. Truly incompetent. Expect an even more belligerent Ahmadinejad.
Posted by Jake-the-Peg 2006-01-26 05:09||   2006-01-26 05:09|| Front Page Top

#7 The EU will try and force us and Isreal to deal with the known terrorist org Hamas. As they say interesting times.
Posted by Sock Puppet O´ Doom 2006-01-26 05:18||   2006-01-26 05:18|| Front Page Top

#8 This may be a good thing.

There is a good chance the terrorism subsidies that come from the EU will decrease (and if they don't international lawyers have a better case to sue the EU after the inevitable terrorism events). There is also a good chance that HAMAS will discredit itself by being incapable of good government. The secularists on the west bank will get to taste what Islamist rules are all about and they won't like it. There is also a good chance of very substantial HAMAS vs. Islamic Jihad conflict.
Posted by mhw 2006-01-26 08:05||   2006-01-26 08:05|| Front Page Top

#9 Good, good, the opposition chairman in Israel goes on record as saying that they "have no intention of allowing negotiations to take place, or let someone else force us to recognize an organization that declares it seeks to destroy Israel," Shimon Peres' point seems true and the leftist Meretz party's line of attack accepts the premise that Hamas is belligerent ("launch peace talks or Hamas will win again and then we'll really have no case!")...

Incidentally, because of this I mildly disagree with the Likud MK who said that Israel should have prevented the PA elections... sounds a little too much like the anti-pullout mentality.
Posted by Edward Yee 2006-01-26 08:12||]">[]  2006-01-26 08:12|| Front Page Top

#10 Well as long as Jimmy Carter (yes, the old fool's there) certifies the election, I guess that it's all OK.

The Muslim ummah has spoken again and once again it's voted for Allahdaemmerung.
Posted by 11A5S 2006-01-26 08:17||   2006-01-26 08:17|| Front Page Top

#11 The vote is in, the numbers tallied, and the people have spoken. They have decided to follow the path of violence and death. This is a vote to declare war on the West and Israel. Hold on as they build their Army and prepare for attacks.
Posted by 49 Pan">49 Pan  2006-01-26 09:16||   2006-01-26 09:16|| Front Page Top

#12 Guess that's the end of any peace fantasy the Israelis might have had.

Not to mention the proponents of the so-called "road map".
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2006-01-26 09:25||   2006-01-26 09:25|| Front Page Top

#13 "Allahdaemmerung"

Lol, 11A5S. Your coinage always rocks, lol. A keeper.
Posted by .com 2006-01-26 10:27||   2006-01-26 10:27|| Front Page Top

#14 this merely makes clear to all that the Paleos will never accept a state with Israel still in existence. A pox on there entire death-cult society and all future generations! Expect a civil war as Fatah and IJ, who were recipients of most of the graft and corruption, now become common thugs in Hamas eyes and everyone with a gun becomes a martyr. Nice job, Yasser!
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2006-01-26 10:28||   2006-01-26 10:28|| Front Page Top

#15 Good riddance. Can we stop giving the @ssholes money now?
Posted by Ol Dirty American 2006-01-26 10:28||   2006-01-26 10:28|| Front Page Top

#16 Somebody at National Review Online wrote an extensive piece that more or less agrees with my earlier "this could be a good thing" post.

it is at:
Posted by mhw 2006-01-26 10:43||   2006-01-26 10:43|| Front Page Top

#17 I honestly believe this is more a vote against fatah rather than for the hamas platform of destroying Israel. After all, as they say, all politics is local.

What strikes me most, though, is that if the plight of the paleos does improve under hamas rule, it clearly proves that the hardships they endured were not the fault of Israel, but of their own making. In other words, that they could have fixed their problems all along. The fact that they didn't merely shows just how despicable that reptilian, corrupt arafat was. He had the power to improve their situation, but lined his pockets instead. And so, it demonstrates that -- amidst virtual unanimous paleo backing of arafat through all those years of cronyism, corruption and ineptitude -- they absolutely don't deserve to govern themselves.

And yet, regardless of whether paleo conditions improve, the world will still blame Israel for whatever the paleos suffer.

The only way the world will be satisfied is if hamas' objectives are actually fulfilled.
Posted by PlanetDan">PlanetDan  2006-01-26 12:27||   2006-01-26 12:27|| Front Page Top

#18 Nice article mhw. Unfortunately, it seems that the Muslims don't "love their children too." So I predict nuclear war within the next three years.
Posted by Secret Master 2006-01-26 12:34||   2006-01-26 12:34|| Front Page Top

#19 “ ‘I will not negotiate with a government that does not meet its most basic obligations -- to fight terrorism. We are prepared to assist the Palestinians and [Palestinian President Abbas] very much but they must meet their commitments,’ Olmert said, according to a statement released by his office.”

Ka-BAM! Beautiful.

“Speaking in the Knesset, Peretz said that he would not conduct negotiations with Hamas. ‘We will not conduct negotiations with an organization that does not recognize Israel’s right to exist,’ he said. ‘If we have to, we will implement unilateral moves. We will not agree to a diplomatic stalemate. The changes in the Palestinian Authority will not take us hostage,’ he said.”

Who needs caffeine this morning?
?SOPD #7-Sounds about right.

#14 :)

#16 Great link, mhw.
Posted by Jules 2 2006-01-26 12:38||   2006-01-26 12:38|| Front Page Top

#20 There is now a clear chain of responsibility/blame for Palestinian terror. The tactic of denial and obfuscation is now unavailable, as it is for Iran now their intentions are out in the open. Matters are coming to a head.
Posted by Grunter 2006-01-26 12:47||   2006-01-26 12:47|| Front Page Top

#21 I offer one tiny observation: all of the (excellent) comments are only relevant for those who practice Western (Aristotelian) logic.

None of what has been said here will mean diddley-squat to Paleos, Arabs, or Muzzies. Just noise to them.

As you were.
Posted by .com 2006-01-26 12:51||   2006-01-26 12:51|| Front Page Top

#22 Somebody at National Review Online wrote an extensive piece that..

Well reasoned, no doubt, but the problem is that it's the Paleos, where logic and reason typically don't apply. And in the case of any further terrorist attacks against Israel, well, there's always the "it wasn't us" or the "rogue factions" excuse.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2006-01-26 12:52||   2006-01-26 12:52|| Front Page Top

#23  If a more hapless breed of people inhabit this earth I am yet to hear of them. F*ckwits one and all.

Author! Author!

One truly good thing is that if Hamas does not renounce their use of terrorism, then any sitting of Palestinian government now becomes a terrorist conclave and represents a suitable target for IDF airstrikes.

The Palestinians have some extremely difficult lessons to learn with respect to how a state is run. Following Iran's lead in this matter is about as stupid as stupid gets. I no longer have the least sympathy for the Palestinian people. They have sealed their doom by allying themselves with Hamas. They demonstrated this long ago by their popular support for this terrorist organization, but now it is official. May they all rot in a fiery hell.
Posted by Zenster 2006-01-26 13:06||   2006-01-26 13:06|| Front Page Top

#24 I wait with batted breath to see the rationalizations that the West (including USA) will evolve to justify their continued support for the Hamas-led "Palestinian People".
Posted by gromgoru 2006-01-26 13:13||   2006-01-26 13:13|| Front Page Top

#25 i tend to agree with MHW, and EY.

Cut the funds, (euros do that to)

Keep your powder dry. Finish the security fence.

Posted by liberalhawk 2006-01-26 13:37||   2006-01-26 13:37|| Front Page Top

#26 Well, grom, Bush sez we won't deal with 'em. And he won't - as Arafat discovered.

I thought this was the #1 hysterical "story" of the lot:
Foreign Leaders Shocked at Hamas Win
Posted by .com 2006-01-26 15:25||   2006-01-26 15:25|| Front Page Top

#27 .com Well, grom, Bush sez we won't deal with 'em. And he won't - as Arafat discovered.

Bush admin didn't deal with PA in the universe where you live .com?
Posted by gromgoru 2006-01-26 15:52||   2006-01-26 15:52|| Front Page Top

#28 Lol. I get it. Do you?

Bush most certainly changed the game - and relative to those who preceeded him, grom, he proved that he gets it.

Much of what did (and does) occur is Congressional and State Dept BS, some of it enacted legislation that Bush can't just dismiss - no matter what he (or we) thinks or wants. You don't think USAid decides its own actions, do you? Regards State, well as you know, there are serious problems within the Kool Aid section at State, which is why Rice was given the job of reining them in. Our Govt was almost turned into another Tranzi outpost - the insanity rampant in Europe. Bush is the one who stopped the transition - and is reversing it. Isn't that a good thing? Not fast enough? Lol. It never is - for any of us.

If you can't acknowledge that things have changed a lot since Dubya took over, then you're among the dispeptic ankle-biter krowd who give no credit unless it matches your personal agenda. Hell, I could say I'd prefer Israel go ahead and wipe out the Paleos - but that wouldn't be any more realistic than your piss n' moan routine.

The world will always fail to measure up to your bile-ridden derangement. Tough shit. Give credit where due, if you can manage it. If you can't, well, LOL, who give a shit?
Posted by .com 2006-01-26 16:11||   2006-01-26 16:11|| Front Page Top

#29 .com sez: None of what has been said here will mean diddley-squat to Paleos, Arabs, or Muzzies. Just noise to them.

That is the basic tenant in dealing with the ME. So we are dealing with people that do not use Aristotlian logic and have a disconnect between cause and effect UNTIL it affects them personally.

Now Sharon did his strategic withdrawl from Gaza in order to set up a free fire zone. The only problem is that Egypt has done nothing, so Gaza will become Hamasistan, and Hamas is stockpiling supplies and ordinance in Gaza for the final push against Israel. Hamas went shopping for a sugar daddy and found a warm welcome with the Iranian MMs. So they have the funding and the supplies. The PA is discredited, so they have very little left in the sugar daddy dept. If there is a civil war, Hamas will stomp their asses and the takeover will be complete. In effect, Israel will have Iranian proxies on their northern and southwestern borders. Iran will initiate a war on many fronts: Israel, Iraq, Straits of Hormuz. They may get stomped, or not.

The key to getting out of all ME pickles seems to point to Iran, they are the big financial bad guy. Lots of countries now have a dog in this fight. Israelis for their existance, UAE, Saudi for protection of their oil fields, Turkey for their natural gas supplies, Iraq for their resources and independence, Chicoms for their oil, which fuels their economic machine, other oil consumers in Europe and Asia, bunch of Stans that do not want to get taken over by Iran for their oil and gas resources.

It all goes back to Iran, everything else is a defensive holding action. Since we are dealing with nutcases in Iran, the best defense is a good offence. Negotiation is a waste. But, we are not in this alone. The rest of the world is, too. The question is: will they be able to wake up in time? Sanctions will not work. There will always be someone who will circumvent the sanctions. And we do not have the time. The MMs and their little parrot Ahmadinejad think that the time is right for them to make their big moves.

Iran needs for some of its infrastructure supporting the money machine be interrupted at critical nodes. We have talked about how to do this pretty much completely at RB. Then we better be ready to decapitate the regime. Israel's long term health will depend upon what happens to Iran. Theirs is the most critical concern. The rest of us are affected, too. We collectively better realize it PDQ.
Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul  2006-01-26 16:59||   2006-01-26 16:59|| Front Page Top

#30 AP got to the crux.

Israel now has two large, Iranian-funded, openly terrorist organizations surrounding it to the North and to the South. Both are now able to stockpile weapons pretty much without restraint. Both want to destroy Israel. I'd want to crush them asap and carefully watch the West Bank.

2006 is shaping up to be the 1941 of WW II.
Posted by Kalle (kafir forever) 2006-01-26 17:50||]">[]  2006-01-26 17:50|| Front Page Top

#31 Can't help but think that the Pals might be in for a very rude awakening - and in the very near future.

Sure it's all fire guns in air today and ululating. But what happens when Paleostine doesn't turn into a paradise with jobs and food and money for all - terrific schools and booming businesses within 2 weeks (not a patient people these)?

Will they still be so joyful within a month from now when it becomes clear that Hamas has no intention of "governing" Paleostine or "improving" anything vis a vis day to day life. Their mission is to erase Israel. That mission hasn't changed.

And now with the deep pockets of Iran funding them and the philosophies of the Taliban driving them, they see a clear path to attack.

The only "jobs" going will the house-to-house issue of suicide belts. And an order to "get on with the job".

Pals are about to experience a truly "islamic" lifestyle - just as they wanted. They're going to be mighty surprised at just how much worse things are going to get.

But for a people to embrace death as amorously as they have done, very fitting.

There is just as big a bang in imploding as exploding.
Posted by Hupomoger Clans9827">Hupomoger Clans9827  2006-01-26 18:21||   2006-01-26 18:21|| Front Page Top

#32 Iran needs for some of its infrastructure supporting the money machine be interrupted at critical nodes.

Exactly, Alaska Paul. Hamas has no economic agenda in terms of creating a viable Palestinian industrial base for its electorate. They derive their income as proxy Iranian mercenaries and have no intention of serving the Palestinian people in anything other capacity than a military role. If Iran's economy goes @ss over teacups due to massive bombing of its petro-infrastructure, where will Hamas get their funding?

This sordid victory and self-immolation of the Palestinian people must be strangled in the cradle. Hamas wants a battle to the death and should be given nothing less than their deepest desire. We are now confronted with the gruesome spectacle of a democratically elected government sworn to terrorism. This is a people making a mass self-indictment of themselves as murderous thugs. Ignore it at your peril.
Posted by Zenster 2006-01-26 18:55||   2006-01-26 18:55|| Front Page Top

#33 1941 or 1914?
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-01-26 19:24||   2006-01-26 19:24|| Front Page Top

#34 . com Bush most certainly changed the game - and relative to those who preceeded him, grom, he proved that he gets it.

No he doesn't. Bush administration
(a) Provides funds that Palestinians use for terrorism and/or for the amelioration of the consequence of engaging in terrorism.
(b) Pressures Israel into moderating the retaliation --- which is the only means of controling Palestinian terrorism.

Of course, unlike his predecessors, Bush maybe perfectly sincere in believing that Paleos can change, but that doesn't make him a hero --- except to you.

p.s. How's Iraqi democracy going?
Posted by gromgoru 2006-01-26 19:45||   2006-01-26 19:45|| Front Page Top

#35 he's a hero to me too - Grom, your opinion doesn't count if you can't take off the blinders and see the alternatives: all worse. W has been and will be Israel's best friend, and not just because it's in our best interest. Support of Israel causes us problems, all which I consider worth it, and I believe W does as well. Does Israel do the same when they sell advanced weaponry and equipment to China??? Thanks for your continuous thankful response
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2006-01-26 20:58||   2006-01-26 20:58|| Front Page Top

#36 Too long perhaps, but worth a post:

Israel the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the world's population, can lay claim to the following:

The cell phone was developed in Israel by Israelis working in the Israeli branch of Motorola, which has its largest development center in Israel.

Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel.

The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel. Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel.

The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel.

Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.

Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.

The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis.

Israel has the fourth largest air force in the world (after the U.S., Russia and China). In addition to a large variety of other aircraft, Israel's air force has an aerial arsenal of over 250

F-16s. This is the largest fleet of F-16 aircraft outside of the U. S. Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined .

Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita.

According to industry officials, Israel designed the airline industry's most impenetrable flight security. U.S. officials now look (finally) to Israel for advice on how to handle airborne security threats.

Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.

Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people --as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.

In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the U.S. (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).

On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech startups.

With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and startups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world -- apart from the Silicon Valley, U.S.

Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind the U.S. Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies.

Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East.

The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the U.K.

Twenty-four per cent of Israel's workforce holds university degrees, ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and Holland and 12 per cent hold advanced degrees.

Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.

In 1984 and 1991, Israel airlifted a total of 22,000 Ethiopian Jews (Operation Solomon) at Risk in Ethiopia, to safety in Israel.

When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she became the world's second elected female leader in modern times.

When the U. S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya was bombed in 1998, Israeli rescue teams were on the scene within a day -- and saved three victims from the rubble.

Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship - and the highest rate among women and among people over 55 - in the world.

Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth. Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious freedom, and economic opportunity. (Hundreds of thousands from the former Soviet Union)

Israel was the first nation in the world to adopt the Kimberly process, an international standard that certifies diamonds as "conflict free."

Israel has the world's second highest per capita production of new books.

Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century with a net gain in its number of trees, made more remarkable because this was achieved in an area considered mainly desert.

Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.

Israeli scientists developed the first fully computerized, no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.

An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring proper administration of medications, thus removing human error from medical treatment. Every year in U. S. hospitals 7,000 patients die from treatment mistakes.

Israel's Given Imaging developed the first ingestible video camera, so small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from the inside, cancer and digestive disorders .

Researchers in Israel developed a new device that directly helps the heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save lives among those with heart failure. The new device is synchronized with the camera helps doctors diagnose heart's mechanical operations through a sophisticated system of sensors.

Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U.S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its workforce employed in technical professions, Israel places first in this category as well.

A new acne treatment developed in Israel -- the Clear Light device produces a high-intensity, ultraviolet-light-free, narrow-band blue light that causes acne bacteria to self-destruct -- all without damaging surrounding skin or tissue.

An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in southern California's Mojave desert.

All the above while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy that seeks its destruction, and an economy continuously under strain by having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any other county on earth.
Posted by Flomotch Thaiper2166 2006-01-26 22:02||   2006-01-26 22:02|| Front Page Top

#37 I wait with batted breath to see the rationalizations that the West (including USA) will evolve to justify their continued support for the Hamas-led "Palestinian People".

I think you are wrong. Time will tell.

Flomotch - You may be onto something. I think Israel really needs a better PR department (as does the US). It may be unrealistic, but I think it would make a difference if they got a positive message to counteract all of the negative stereotypes.
Posted by 2b 2006-01-26 22:18||   2006-01-26 22:18|| Front Page Top

#38 Cherry-picking goodies is fun.

And where, pray-tell, would Israel be were it not for the stalwart support of the US? Nowhere. Literally.

This does not, however, dissuade assholes and fools from posturing and preening. Our efforts are never enough, our aid is ignored - treated as their due... remind you of any other group?

The Israel-Paleo drama is the tiniest zit on the tip of the tail of the dog, yet they believe it should wag the whole damned dog. Bullshit. I've just about reached my fill.

Bush did not inherit Hamas running Paleoworld - for the first time the situation on the ground there is unmuddled by previous agreements or BS "road maps". This time he has a free hand in deciding how HE will deal with the new reality.

He and Rice say they will not fund any "govt" run by Hamas. The Euros are watching - and seem to be headed the same way, given the gist in other articles. Prolly waiting to let Bush do it and take whatever heat there may be first. But hey, we shall see, won't we?

If he cuts off aid, then will we see the dispeptic gromgoru change his tune? Nah, he'll just switch gripes. That's his gig. For a few years he's come to RB, posted short, terse, cryptic, gutteral fartlets - usually pointless. I don't expect that to change.

Stay off the buses.
Posted by .com 2006-01-26 22:20||   2006-01-26 22:20|| Front Page Top

#39 "p.s. How's Iraqi democracy going?"

It's booming - literally.
Posted by Anya 2006-01-26 23:55||   2006-01-26 23:55|| Front Page Top

23:55 Anya
23:30 Barbara Skolaut
23:29 Frank G
23:18 Frank G
23:17 Frank G
22:53 James
22:48 Frank G
22:41 JosephMendiola
22:41 Frank G
22:38 Inspector Clueso
22:32 JosephMendiola
22:32 Old Patriot
22:32 CrazyFool
22:30 Frank G
22:30 Sgt. Mom
22:30 macofromoc
22:29 JosephMendiola
22:26 Redneck Jim
22:22 Alaska Paul
22:20 JosephMendiola
22:20 .com
22:18 2b
22:15 Redneck Jim
22:12 Dave D.

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