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2003-10-12 Africa: North
Talks on French Airline Bombing Stall
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Posted by Steve White 2003-10-12 12:09:47 AM|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [364 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 No, it's sour grapes--the French are pissed that the Americans were much better negotiators re: compensation for terrorist victims--then faced a firestorm from Le Monde etc.
Posted by Not Mike Moore 2003-10-12 12:25:55 AM||   2003-10-12 12:25:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Yes, sour grapes and typical French one-upmanship (oh, how are those wine sales to the USA, by the way?) and we're better at targeting as well. Don't forget the fear factor.
Posted by Raj 2003-10-12 12:59:17 AM|| []  2003-10-12 12:59:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 "without aggression, but without weakness"

This is just hysterically pfunny. Chirac trying to sound tough using their patented Pfrench diplo-speak. It just gives me the giggles shivers to hears such weasly greed majestic sentiment and empty threats commanding power couched in such sniveling soaring language! He ees, sans doubt, zee Master!
Posted by .com 2003-10-12 3:49:00 AM||   2003-10-12 3:49:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 4:55am,2 sips of coffee,and achuckle.Now that is the way to start the day.Libya agrees,gets the sanctions lifted,then backs out of the deal,
Soup grapes indeed.

Come on,Chirac go for that UN Resolution.Wonder if Negrponte would laugh in his face outright or be"diplomatic".
Posted by Raptor  2003-10-12 8:00:47 AM||   2003-10-12 8:00:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Maybe the Frenchies should try and get a Security Council resolution and invade Libya...

Who would we support? A madman in the dessert or our longtime ally?

Hmmmm.... well the madman does have Wheelus.
Posted by Shipman 2003-10-12 8:28:13 AM||   2003-10-12 8:28:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Drôle de guerre
Posted by True German Ally 2003-10-12 9:35:49 AM||   2003-10-12 9:35:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 The fact is a few years ago the (socilaist) French government was very ready to forget the bombings, tell the victims relatives to get lost and sell his soul trade with Lybia. However an obstinate judge and a press campaign derailed the plan. The governement still managed to have the relatives get nothing. Had not the US government not managed to get a better deal the French one wouldn't have lift a finger for the victims. Bastards.
Posted by JFM  2003-10-12 9:57:06 AM||   2003-10-12 9:57:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 France wouldn't allow overflight IIRC for Reagan to bomb Khadaffy Duck's tent in response to a terror attack in Berlin (among other mischief).

John Lennon was right: "Instant Karma's gonna get you"
Posted by Frank G  2003-10-12 10:57:17 AM||   2003-10-12 10:57:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Frank G.

France was not alone in that attitude if my memory is any good. I think Germany andf Italy did the same. And Khaddafi rewarded France by bombing that plane mentionned in the article.

On another side it was the Germans who spent the 80s trying very hard to surrender to the Soviets (anyone here remembers the demonstrations against Pershing deployments and has meditated on the meaning of the "Better Red than dead" slogan?) and France who was telling: "missiles are east-side and pacifists are west-side").

Note: thre was a mistake in my previous post: the
French victims in the UTA plane got some indemnification but it was peanuts: governemnt didn't want to sour his new friend.

Posted by JFM  2003-10-12 2:34:15 PM||   2003-10-12 2:34:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 JFM, you're correct - made it more difficult when they had to fly from Maggie Thatcher's England. Also, IIRC Italy had socialist-communist leanings at the time. Berlusconi's a welcome change, no?
Posted by Frank G  2003-10-12 2:49:31 PM||   2003-10-12 2:49:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Who would we support? A madman in the dessert or our longtime ally?

The latter, probably. Question is: would it be State Department or French-syle?
Posted by Pappy 2003-10-12 3:16:21 PM||   2003-10-12 3:16:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Sometimes its tough to ge the use of other people's air space, but air is still free if you own a flattop in the Med.
Posted by Super Hose  2003-10-12 3:30:39 PM||   2003-10-12 3:30:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 air is still free if you own a flattop

Hell yes! This is a loop-hole in the Freedom of the Seas thingy...... it's (yep) Rule Britannia.
Posted by Shipman 2003-10-12 3:45:25 PM||   2003-10-12 3:45:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 SH and Shipman, that's true, but not for heavy bombers. I still recall with a smile the "Line of Death" Khaddafy invoked across the Gulf of Sidra...cost him a few jets, didn't it?
Posted by Frank G  2003-10-12 4:41:25 PM||   2003-10-12 4:41:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Have been across the Line O' Death and yet I live on. Maybe Super Hose is a zombie?
Posted by Super Hose  2003-10-12 8:44:38 PM||   2003-10-12 8:44:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I was in England, not far from Lakenheath, when the US bombed Libya. About all the French did was force our pilots to fly an additional five hours round trip, and it took five refuelings instead of three. That and give us a good indication of what a war in Europe would be like between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Having to have an extra three wings of fighter aircraft to protect our backside changed a lot of warplans, but there was no way the US would trust the French after that.

BTW, the FB111 is carrier-capable. In fact, it was one of Macnamara's big ideas to cut costs by making all "new" aircraft capable of being used by both the Air Force and the Navy. About a third of US Air Force pilots are carrier-landing qualified.
Posted by Old Patriot  2003-10-12 10:14:26 PM|| []  2003-10-12 10:14:26 PM|| Front Page Top

23:26 Ed
23:58 Jabba the Nutt
23:30 mojo
23:28 Jabba the Nutt
23:23 mojo
23:18 mojo
23:17 Jabba the Nutt
23:14 mojo
22:14 Old Patriot
22:05 Super Hose
21:59 Super Hose
21:57 Super Hose
21:51 R. McLeod
21:51 Super Hose
21:49 Super Hose
21:48 tu3031
21:35 tu3031
21:26 tu3031
21:23 Super Hose
21:22 tu3031
21:18 tu3031
21:08 tu3031
21:05 tu3031
21:00 tu3031

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