#10
Canadien eh! Still unemployed after the bicycle taxi gig fell through, still living with roomates. You could tell he had to move fast as there is a line at the library to use the computer.
Michael Howard was accused of opportunism last night after he tried to increase pressure on Tony Blair ahead of tomorrow's Commons debate on the Butler report by qualifying his support for the Iraq war. The Conservative leader said he would not have backed the Government in last year's crucial vote authorising war if he had known No 10's claims about weapons of mass destruction were so unreliable. Mr Blair secured narrow support for military action against a big Labour rebellion last March thanks to the votes of Tory MPs including Mr Howard, who now believes he was misled. Yesterday he sought to keep attention on the Prime Minister's credibility amid signs of Tory unease at the party's failure to make headway against Labour under his leadership. I'm sure Howard would have done exactly the same as Blair in the same situation, and weasling around now doesn't change anything. Way to lose support, Howard...
This week will mark the final opportunity for Mr Howard to attack Mr Blair - either in tomorrow's debate or at question time on Wednesday - before Parliament rises for the summer recess. But it will also be a test of Mr Howard's ability to command the support of his MPs, who were dismayed to see the Tories slump to third place in last week's by-elections. Although there is no threat to his position, he may struggle to dispel a growing feeling among Tories that the optimism of his first six months as leader has evaporated and that the party is destined for a third consecutive general election defeat. Lord Tebbit, the former Tory chairman, said the Tories were "waffling along" under a "colourless" leader. Chris Patten, another former chairman, urged Mr Howard not to be "panicked" into moving to the Right. That what Patten said? Time to go right, then.
Mr Howard stopped short of calling for Mr Blair's resignation, but he claimed that he could not have supported the Government motion last year because it referred to Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles" posing "a threat to international security".
Tory officials denied that he had performed a U-turn. But Labour accused Mr Howard of plumbing "new depths of opportunism and hypocrisy". Hilary Benn, the International Development Secretary, said: "He lacks any credibility whatsoever." Sounds like an attempt at opportunism, more worthy of Charles Kennedy. If Howard has doubts now, then he has to admit he misjudged things before. Methinks he missed a good opportunity to keep quiet.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
07/19/2004 4:30:04 AM ||
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Need I add that this only confirms my view of the outstanding leadership of Tony Blair?
#3
I guess UK politics have confused me once again. I would not have expected this type of statment from a Tory. I thought the Tories were the party of Churchill and Thatcher.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 16:54 Comments ||
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#4
Sigh. I'm with SH. Is this just the enemy of my enemy shit? Or are they serious? WTF is going on with UK politics? Is this what they all really want?
Does Tony stand utterly alone, over there? Sheesh, wotta messy political scene.
BTW, does anyone have a link to images of those pink tanks they rolled out for Bush's last visit?
#5
Nah, its what ALL politicians think - "I am all that stands in the way of disaster" so anythings legit to elect ME. Isnt it worth questioning the war in Iraq, in order to keep Tony from passing the Euro Constitution?
Like we dont get this kind of thing from folks on BOTH sides of the aisle right here in the good old USA?
#6
LH: Isnt it worth questioning the war in Iraq, in order to keep Tony from passing the Euro Constitution?
Actually, the Tories *want* to pass the EU constitution, having given in to the business lobby a long time ago. The Conservative Party is now the party of Chris Patten, not Winston Churchill. This isn't about the EU - it's about power, and if they have to become communists to take power, they will. It would be the first time it's happened to the Conservative Party. After all, wasn't it Edward Heath who took wholeheartedly to the welfare state?
Every home should store emergency supplies, including tinned food, bottled water and medication, in case of a terrorist attack, Hazel Blears, the minister for counter-terrorism says today. In an interview with The Telegraph, she says the Government plans to issue guidance on what to do if al-Qa'eda attacks. It will also explain what it is doing to prevent terrorism similar to the Madrid train bombings. Although Miss Blears stresses that an attack is not inevitable and that people should not "live in fear", she says it is best to be prepared. Miss Blears says she does not want to be alarmist. But the terrorist threat "is serious, it is credible, it is real, it has increased and it is going to be with us for the long term". Speaking of the Government's responsibility, she says it must be as open as possible. "This is not like a traditional war where the Armed Forces are going to go out and fight on your behalf. This is something that is the responsibility of all of us." The Government has devised a strategy of "four Ps" for dealing with the terrorist threat: prevent, pursue, protect and be prepared. Ministers have drawn up plans for dealing with an emergency and there have been several practice runs. Victims of a mock chemical attack in Birmingham yesterday waited four hours for treatment.
Councils have been asked to make contingency plans. Preparations are being made for an attack involving chemical, biological and even nuclear weapons. The security services are involved in "horizon scanning", preparing for possible targets such as a big sporting event, political conference or election campaigns. "If there was a specific and credible threat, we would issue warnings," Miss Blears says. "Public safety is our top priority." Sir John Stevens, the Metropolitan police commissioner, has said that a terrorist attack is "inevitable". Miss Blears disagrees because the Government is doing everything it can to prevent one. But she acknowledges that terrorists are trying hard to obtain chemical and biological material.
Miss Blears admits that the war in Iraq has caused resentment in Muslim communities, which may make it easier for extremists to put their message across. "People did feel a lack of understanding about Iraq," she says. There is no point in denying that." She says also that the treatment of Palestinians has provided terrorists with a "route through" to Muslim communities. "Unless we attack some of the international issues which breed that sense of injustice and oppression, you have a more fertile ground." I cut out a lot of crap 'n' waffle from the article. The above quote suggests to me that Ms Blears isn't suitable for her position.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
07/19/2004 4:22:12 AM ||
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'..the treatment of Palestinians has provided terrorists with a "route through" to Muslim communities.'
Lady, we run our own politics - if muslim communities don't like it , they know where the door is... Have a word Tony. Sounds like Miss Blears has her women's things this week.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/19/2004 4:33 Comments ||
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"Victims of a mock chemical attack in Birmingham yesterday..."
We had similar mock drills here in US about a year ago.
#4
72 hours of planned self sufficiancy is good advice for all kinds of disasters that could impact a neighborhood, town or large metro area.
My kids call laugh at me all they want... Short of real SHTF (... hits the fan), I can get us through 3 days of most anything with no more inconvenience than a camping trip.
He's a traitor. It'll be interesting to watch the convolutions the lefties go through to justify his actions, should we actually bother to arrest him before he dies.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 23:52 ||
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I am perfectly comfortbale with him being a traitor overseas until he dies unless he fails to keep his yap shut. It is inevitable, though that his bozo relatives will bug us with amnesty plees. Why can't they just leave us alone?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/20/2004 1:41 Comments ||
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#2
they can visit him overseas - he has no citizenship or rights to come home IMHO
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/20/2004 8:17 Comments ||
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A round of military talks between North and South Korea that had been scheduled for Monday was called off after the South accused the North of violating a sea border, the South said. It was unclear if the border dispute caused the cancellation, announced in Seoul after the North failed to respond to Seoul's request for the meeting. "As we have agreed to hold working-level talks to verify dismantling of propaganda signboards along the Demilitarized Zone, we suggested on July 13 that we negotiate the schedule and the venue of the talks on July 19," South Korea's Defense Ministry said in a statement. "However, the meeting apparently was canceled due to the North's lack of response to our request," the statement said. The Defense Ministry expressed its regrets and urged the North to confirm that the meeting would take place "as soon as possible."
"Else we shall have lunch without you."
On Sunday, South Korea's military said a Northern boat entered waters controlled by the South. The North Korean boat sailed into South Korean waters off the west coast and sailed back to the North after 30 minutes, the South said. Seoul's navy said it made five radio warning broadcasts, but there was no immediate reply. On Saturday, North Korea's navy denied intruding into South Korean waters after another, similar charge by the South, and accused the South of spreading lies and "playing with fire."
They're on, they're off, they're on, they're off. Call us if anything happens.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/19/2004 12:21:42 AM ||
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What are waiting for not invading North Korea? NK is as big a threat to our interests as Iraq and should be dealt with swiftly.
#2
Good Gawd no, we don't want to invade NK -- we want NK to make a soft 'thud' as it implodes quietly.
Invasion = 15,000 artillery tubes currently aimed at Seoul being used. That means a half-million civilian dead right at the start. No thanks.
For all the whining from the left, Bush's strategy for dealing with NK, what some call 'engaged apathy', is just sublime. Let the NKors come to us, we don't need them.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/19/2004 11:38 Comments ||
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Exactly Steve. That take out NK BS is just more relitivism.
If NK goes into SK, the Norks will lose half their army while they wait for their fries with that burger. Which is prolly why that boat was sailing into SK waters anyway.
The Afghan pilot forced to fly a hijacked aircraft from Kabul to London has condemned a British court's decision to allow the hijackers to live in luxury in England.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
07/19/2004 22:54 Comments ||
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Unbelievable. Words fail me.
except this:
Mike's right - read this story!
Hell, TS - repost it again for tomorrow. I would like to hear others' thoughts, especially our UK cousins and I'll bet they were all offline when it hit. I'm boggled.
Leading Aircraftsman and medic Mohisin Khan, 25, from Ipswich, Suffolk, was punished by the RAF for going absent without leave (AWOL) last year. He absented himself on the grounds of conscientious objection because it was against his religious beliefs. He is challenging his conviction for being AWOL in the High Court. Two High Court judges on Monday heard he was fined nine days' pay by the RAF. The RAF's Summary Appeal Court upheld his conviction. His lawyers say current UK law provides no statutory basis for a reservist who is a conscientious objector to exempt himself from call-up. They will argue that the law is "defective" in not treating conscientious objection as a statutory basis for exemption from military service for reservists. His counsel, Nicholas Blake QC, told the judges that Mr Khan was permitted to resign in 2001 after joining up as a medical assistant in 1999, as "it did not suit him". However, he remained "vulnerable to reserve call-up". When this call-up came, he went absent without leave from RAF Honington in Suffolk. Mr Khan said he had thought he would be sent to Iraq. The RAF maintained the reservist was not going to be sent to Iraq. He had been called up for deployment in the UK in support of personnel who were going out to the country. The hearing is expected to last up to three days.
#1
I don't know that I would want to serve next to this clown, if he was deployed. I wouldn't trust that his "contientious objection" would prevent him from rolling a gernade into my tent at night. He certainly should have had to pay back any type of military scholarships or enlistments bonuses, but you really only wnat trustworthy patriots wearing the uniform.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 22:32 Comments ||
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EFL & tip to LGF
Central members of Kristiansand Progress party claims Hitler's Mein Kampf and the Koran are one of the same, and they want Islam banned in Norway. . Spunky little nords.
"We are not the only ones demanding this ban," said Halvor Hulaas, chairperson in Krstiansand Frp to the paper. "This is an opinion that is well established in Scandinavian countries. We are now importing people with a religion that is practiced in the same way it was practiced when it was established in year 600. The freedom we have in Norway may be taken away from us if we do not start to have some demands to these immigrants." So, ah, just what do you think of Islam, Chairman?
#4
'Bout goddam time somebody did this. I hope it goes through. Seething Film at eleven.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/19/2004 15:31 Comments ||
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mhw, I don't understand. The Norwegians hung pretty tough in WWII in relation to their resources, e.g., the Norwegian destroyer Svenner being sunk by an e-boat on D-Day.
Posted by: Matt ||
07/19/2004 15:33 Comments ||
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Interesting that this came out of the very pacifist Nordic region. Maybe others will actually listen rather than cry racist at the top of their lungs.
We'll see. The future of Europe may depend on it. In some cases it may already be to late since Islam is there already and breeding.
#9
In a secularized western society religion is not analogous to race. It is a choice of belief, and therefore subject to critical examination. In the most extreme cases, as with Nazism and KuKluxKlan ideology, certain belief systems are excluded on the grounds that the harm to free principles would be greater if they were allowed to be exercised unhindered. Violent, racist, sexist, homophobic ideologies would fall into this category, expecially if they have a documented hisotry of using violence to advance these hateful ideas. An outright ban on Islam would be no more an abridgement of freedom than are the common-law bans on human sacrifice and ritual rape.
#10
There must be a division between the harmless moderate muslims and the militant muslim extremists. It would be right to ban militants however stripping moderates of thier right to practice the religion of thier own choosing would be a step back in western civilization.
Posted by: John ||
07/19/2004 18:24 Comments ||
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John - "Moderate Muslims"? Sigh. Not that old shop-worn canard, again.
Exercise:
Put a real jihadi, just ONE, in front on 10 "Moderate Muslims" and see how many argue with him, fail to do what they're told, or turn him in. Then try it with 50. Then 100. Then come back and tell me how many you needed before they had the collective balls to do something - and tell me about the "Moderate Muslim", again. Sorry - no offense to you intended, but reality trumps your Western logic and good intentions every time.
I know your intentions are good, laudable even, but this is a hurdle that must be cleared to get to the next step: defending ourselves via every tool available, starting with profiling, closing our borders, throwing out the Wahhabi-funded Imams, throwing out every single Muslim that does not swear allegiance to the US, throwing out every Muslim that has given money or support of any kind to any "charity" found to actually be a conduit to terrorists, etc. There is a list a mile long that must be done to protect ourselves. We need to get the damned program moving, ASAP, and the Myth of the Moderate Muslim is the #1 obstacle to doing so.
#12
Banning a religion is wrong and a VERY scary precedent. For those that don't agree that it's wrong, remember that first it will be used in a way you agree with but next time it might not... in fact it might be used against you.
Banning Islam is not even a rational approach. It will definitely push moderates to the extreme.
Now, if Norway wants to control it's immigration and not allow people in that they think won't contribute to society then they are welcome. But the day they ban those in country from performing a harmless ceremony or holding personal beliefs is the day Norway is on the way to hell.
#13
Btw... .com, I know moderate muslims. Some are even very supportive of our war in Iraq, some aren't. But none of the ones I associate with have anything but absolute hatred for Al Queda.
#14
DPA, I, too, don't doubt that they exist. Problem is finding them, and there I think .com has a point: either they won't speak up because they are more loyal to fellow Muslims than they are to what's right, or they're too scared - or maybe something else entirely. I don't know. But they complain a lot more about the way the West "villifies" and "demeans" and "is offensive to" Islam than they complain about the terrorists who are doing the same damned thing, and a lot more efficiently, too.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
07/19/2004 19:55 Comments ||
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DPA - Keep your cool as you read.
As for comment #12, is it merely a religion? No.
Regards comment #13, Did you give 'em the jihadi test? No? Have you ever met them at the moskkk door when they came out on Friday? Did they warmly greet you and stop to converse - or pretend not to know you? Have you ever seen them with the heat on? Have they ever had to choose between being your "friend" or being a "good" Muslim? Still able to go to a non-Wahhabified moskkk? Good for them. Just wondering.
It's easy to be nice when there's no challenge. Don't get pissed, either. I had "friends" in Saudi - a couple that I hung out with from both 92-93 and 2000-2003 tours - and when the gloves came off, when the heat was on, they were Muslims first, and never really my "friends" at all. I learned that I could, indeed, be their friend, but it was not reciprocal in SA. But what happens when peaceful Anytown USA is facing the jihadi crisis and it's more like SA with Muslims facing off against non-Muslims? Hey, it's cool and you can certainly believe what you like. I will remember clearly until my dying breath what I saw.
If this pisses you off, ask yourself why - don't bother shooting me, I've been there / done that and your statement fails the reality tests. I'm happy for you, if they're truly your friends. This is just FYI of a different person's experiences. As you were and Happy Motoring.
#16
.com, they're not really that religious... they don't go to the mosque except for holidays etc. so I've never had to opportunity to see them as they come out of mosques. 2 are investment bankers, 1 works at a hedge fund and 1 is a journalist (he's a wacked out liberal though)... they are pretty americanized, if you saw them you probably wouldn't even realize they were from egypt.
I think the muslims in the middle east are mostly a different breed. The ones that look for a better life and come to america etc are not the same. This is my point.
#17
DPA - Okay. The people you describe aren't really Muslims - they, at least on the surface, are Merkans. :-) They sound about as Muslim as Skeery is Catholic, it seems, lol!
Cool.
I do believe it is dangerous to counsel everyone to relax. I believe your experience is not the norm (but I congratulate you for having good friends!) and I counsel something between caution and suspicion. That's my take and now I'll STFU and leave it there.
Many French city suburbs are becoming ethnic ghettoes, a report has warned.
The study by the French domestic intelligence services found many areas were populated by poor, young French of north African immigrant backgrounds.
The report, leaked to Le Monde newspaper, found at least half of the 630 suburbs it looked at had already become separate ethnic communities. The report warned the ghettoes, cut off from mainstream French society, could encourage radical Islam to take root.
The intelligence service report deals with an extremely sensitive issue for France: just how bad the sense of alienation has become in the suburbs, among the French-born children of north African immigrant background. Sometimes, besides the withdrawal to the culture of origin and the rejection of Western values, a kind of negative identity is built which mixes the cultures of origin, the values of the public housing projects and rudimentary references to Islam.
The report - given to the interior minister, Dominique de Villepin - concludes that the situation is actually worse than previously thought. Of the suburbs studied, the report says at least half could already be called ghettoes, whose inhabitants felt rejected by, and were in turn rejecting, mainstream French society. The areas studied were chosen because they already had problems with unemployment, crime and violence, had a high proportion of immigrant families - some still practising polygamy - plus a growing number of Islamic prayer rooms as well as frequent anti-Western and anti-Semitic graffiti.
The intelligence services noted that many families of immigrant origin were rejecting French values and even the French language, following instead more traditional ways of life associated with their ethnic origin - including an increasing religious radicalisation among young Muslims, and a backlash against young Muslim women who wore Western clothing. Better-off families, mainly those of white European origin, were leaving such suburbs, creating an even greater sense of isolation.
The report's conclusions will worry the government, although they are not entirely unexpected.
For decades, France had hoped that its immigrants and their children would simply integrate into secular French society. Instead, it seems, the opposite has been happening, with the divide becoming ever greater. In an attempt to solve the problems of France's city suburbs, the government has proposed a five-year plan to improve social cohesion - although, as the newspaper Le Monde concludes, it will be a race against time.
Posted by: tipper ||
07/19/2004 11:32:18 AM ||
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The report warned the ghettoes, cut off from mainstream French society, could encourage radical Islam to take root.
Day late and a dollar short. The MSM is starting to see the obvious. They should have read Rantburg and other blogs that discussed this situation in depth. It is not just in France.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/19/2004 12:02 Comments ||
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Paul,
This is OT but I need a favor from you. Are you able to search on this site? If you are, can you search under Anonymous5854? He left a post for me that sounds like a threat (Dhahran is abserving you....). I would like to know what type of comments this person have been making in this site. Please, if you are able to do this, can you copy and paste a sample of his/her messages in this thread.
Thanks a million in advance.
#6
TW - Yep, only the "social futurists" who designed these spoke-and-hub "satellite" burbs thought that they would be mini-communities of wonderfully integrated happy people. Bright shining faces and gleaming eat-off-the-sidewalk mini-Utopias... I saw the promo films in school. I wonder what went wrong? Lol! Social engineering doesn't work so well, no? Leaving that fact aside... One thing they left out of the satellites was the fundamental services... They were too small to have separate police stations, medical facilities, etc. - you had to go up-spoke to the hub for these basics. The scale was all wrong. Smaller = hamlets, which might've worked better. Larger, with req services, might have worked better. The study of critical mass populations was ignored - in favor of architectural aesthetics. Sad, but true. The French were just doing what was done everywhere - look at such public housing failures in the US. Can we all say, "Fort Apache, The Bronx"??? I knew we could. Social Engineering is a failure. Housing developers who knock out 100-500 homes do a better job! Sorry for the windiness. Just a pet hobby of mine.
#7
Polygamy should be a disqualification for emigration to any Western country, and if you are found to have more than one wife, you should be immediately deported.
I think we should be more creative with our entrance requirements. If a Muslim wants to emigrate to the West, he should swear his allegiance to his new country over allegiance to Islam, and do it on a Quran, in Allah's name. That'll keep the numbers low.
#8
Where the old geezers that died in last year's summer heat ethnic Gauls?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 15:06 Comments ||
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Anon 4617---I have sent Emails to the editors about this and they will get back to you if they have your email address, or you can email me and I will relay, after verification.
Paul
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/19/2004 15:16 Comments ||
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#10
I fail to see the famed French Logic at work here.The Muslim immigrants have massive unemployment,which meant there were no jobs for them.So why let them into country in first place?It may be time for Europe to adapt the old Australian policy of no job,no entry,and apply it retroactively.Short term pain,long term gain.
Posted by: Stephen ||
07/19/2004 16:11 Comments ||
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Stephen:
These impoverished younger French Muslims are often the children of older immigrants who most certainly did have jobs.... with "did" being the operative word. Those jobs no longer exist.
It's a familiar pattern, one which can been seen in the United States as well. Take the San Francisco/ Bay Area. In the 1940's and 50's hundreds of thousands of black families moved there to work in the shipyards in Richmond, Oakland, East Palo Alto, and SF's Hunter's Point district. While the shipyards were still active these transplanted communities did pretty well for the most part, but with the end of the Koren War the shipyards mostly closed down leaving the population unemployed.
Been to West Oakland lately? Fort Apache, The Bronx indeed.
Many French city suburbs are becoming ethnic ghettoes
Becoming? Where have these French domestic intelligence services clowns been the last 10 years?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/19/2004 20:56 Comments ||
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#7Polygamy should be a disqualification for emigration to any Western country, and if you are found to have more than one wife, you should be immediately deported.
Plus the wife and kids, no sense in rewarding anyone for fraud. They can all reapply through conventional channels for proper entry.
I think we should be more creative with our entrance requirements. If a Muslim wants to emigrate to the West, he should swear his allegiance to his new country over allegiance to Islam, and do it on a Quran, in Allah's name. That'll keep the numbers low.
One would hope, even though permission is given in advance to lie in the name of spreading Islam. Polygamous fundamentalist types aren't going to blush over invoking such a privilege for themselves. Especially when they probably view one man utterly controlling several women as the height of Islamic male dominance.
#16
Anonymous4617---Fred has done an IP search on what you wanted, as well as a search for the poster you requested on Rantburg. Email him and he will give you the information, or you can email me.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/19/2004 22:48 Comments ||
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Al Qaida really has it in for Silvio Berlusconi. As the target of terrorist threats, the Italian prime minister ranks second in frequency only to President George W. Bush. On Friday, al Qaida again had Berlusconi in its sights. A message on the Ansarnet website that carries extremist Islamic content warned that unless Berlusconi was removed from office there would be terrorist attacks against Italy.
"Either you dump the incompetent Berlusconi or we will really burn Italy," the message said. "We are in Italy. None of you is safe." The message was signed by the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigade, an al Qaida affiliate which most recently claimed responsibility for the Madrid train bombings last March in which 190 commuters lost their lives and thousands were injured. The group is named after an al Qaida leader who was killed in Afghanistan in a clash with U.S. forces.
The al Qaida warning came two days after the expiry of a three-month truce declared unilaterally on April 15 by Osama bin Laden. In a taped message - pronounced authentic by CIA experts at the time -- bin Laden had said al Qaida would suspend operations against targets in Europe to give European members of the U.S.-led coalition enough time to pull their troops out of Iraq. Friday's website threat was seen as the resumption of terrorist "hostilities" against any country that still has its armed forces deployed in Iraq.
#3
"Either you dump the incompetent Berlusconi or we will really burn Italy," the message said. "We are in Italy. None of you is safe."
I think terrorists groups are too negative. They criticize Berlusconi for his incompetence, but they refuse to profer an acceptatbly "competent" candidate. I'm beginning to think that the current terrorists are just a bunch of grousers - part of the problem not the solution. Aren't there any progressive terrorrists out there?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 9:47 Comments ||
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#4
Methinks the Mafia have many Afghani contacts re: poppy cultivation. Could be handy.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/19/2004 9:48 Comments ||
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#5
Yo! Arabs. Listen up. You want to talk about 'burning' a country? Bring it on. We've got 1,000's of multi-megaton nuclear warheads. I hear it's not too hard to drill for oil through glass. Just remember, Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the results of someone pushing us too far.
#6
"An earlier website message July 7 warned Muslims "living in the West" to leave"
I don't think the Western Governments are giving that part of the message enough play. It solves a lot of problems if the unassimilated Muslims living in the West actually leave.
Until countries make a coherent attempt to identify and interdict Muslim extremists, al Qaeda will flourish. Italy, like every other nation in Europe, will need its own private terrorist atrocity before they purchase a clue.
via The American Spectator (h/t: Lucianne) - EFL
By Jed Babbin - 7/19/2004 12:08:03 AM
Let's pretend -- for just a few minutes -- that we still care about France. The Gauls seem determined to bring about their own economic and social destruction, and they're moving heaven, earth, and the rest of Europe to assure it. There are ways they could avoid what's coming. If we can see the solutions to their problems, why shouldn't we tell the French?
Okay, okay, there's a thousand reasons why we should buy popcorn and sit back and watch them sink. But here's another idea, one that will give us vastly greater pleasure, and is guaranteed to toss an anvil to the drowning cheese-eaters. There are few certainties in this world, but one is that your average Frenchman would rather kill himself than be caught following American advice. I say let's give them the very best help we can, confident in the knowledge they'd damn themselves to a wine-free hell before they'll do what we say. Here -- with malice aforethought -- are the Top Ten Loose Canon All-American Ideas to Save France. so click the link...
Rather funny proposition, so simplisme, it would prolly work!
Posted by: .com ||
07/19/2004 1:45:49 AM ||
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Jed even included Whoopi's Law:
10. Finally, quit whining about American reactions to French animosity. Many of us are boycotting your goods, and more and more will as people discover just how severe your dislike for us really is. If you don't like us, fine. But don't tell us we aren't entitled to react to your hate.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 16:59 Comments ||
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caught via LGF
President Clinton's national security adviser, Sandy Berger, is the focus of a criminal investigation after admitting he removed highly classified terrorism documents from a secure reading room during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings, The Associated Press has learned. Berger's home and office were searched earlier this year by FBI agents armed with warrants. Some drafts of a sensitive after-action report on the Clinton administration's handling of al-Qaida terror threats during the December 1999 millennium celebration are still missing.
Berger and his lawyer said Monday night he knowingly removed handwritten notes he had taken from classified anti-terror documents he reviewed at the National Archives by sticking them in his jacket and pants. He also inadvertently took copies of actual classified documents in a leather portfolio, they said. "I deeply regret the sloppiness involved, but I had no intention of withholding documents from the commission, and to the contrary, to my knowledge, every document requested by the commission from the Clinton administration was produced," Berger said in a statement to the AP.
Berger served as Clinton's national security adviser for all of the president's second term and most recently has been informally advising Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry. Clinton asked Berger last year to review and select the administration documents that would be turned over to the commission. The FBI searched Berger's home and office with warrants earlier this year after employees of the National Archives told agents they believed they witnessed Berger put documents into his clothing while reviewing sensitive Clinton administration papers, officials said.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/19/2004 8:17:00 PM ||
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#1
rewriting history, Sandy?
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/19/2004 20:21 Comments ||
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#2
Frank -- Definitely. Wow.
And as for the "sloppiness" statement - WHAT? Berger's acting like lifting classified documents is no big deal - when he KNOWS it's drop-dead prison time. And this lame disingenous liar was Clinton's NSA? He RAN the office? He had regular access to everything? This is how he treats classified intel? He figures discarding classified docs from the Archives is trivial?
#3
it just made the headline and flashing light at Drudge, LOL. This is going to go over really well before the Dem convention...shows the ass-covering unseriousness of the Clinton years in technicolor
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/19/2004 20:32 Comments ||
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#4
What do you guys think the actual meaning of this is? Why'd he do it? Was he hiding something or is he just that big of a moron?
#5
Frank and Dotcom, no kidding!
I love it that the Clintoon Team got caught (again), but I also wondered what the destroyed documents said about our security that I have no doubt we need to know!
Sure, Berger should do hard time, but then so should his master, Billary.
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 20:49 Comments ||
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#6
Damn Proud American,Yes.
Frank G,Berger is a Democrat,the press will ignore this.
Posted by: Stephen ||
07/19/2004 20:52 Comments ||
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#7
Probably embarassing parts for the Clinton Admin, is my guess. Then the coverup starts, and rather than be embarassed, all hell breaks loose over the improper handling of classified material. Berger will take the fall, etc etc. and Bubba will be clean. That is my 70% probability view. *sigh* We are now as a nation paying for the sins of these asshats.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/19/2004 20:53 Comments ||
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#8
DPA - I dunno - I'm truly dumbstruck by this. There is no latitude or wiggle room for plundering, pillaging, whatever the National Security Archives. Is there anything anyone could do, short of a foreign power attacking the US, which is more dangerous?
I sure hope there was a fiche or computerized archival system (such as the one I designed for the fucking Saudis waay back in '92) behind these physical documents. Scan in a lossless format and burn to CDR (write only) - very easy to do. Here's how 46 states handle the matter. No telling what he "cleaned" from the Archives. Just mind boggling. I never thought Burger was an asshole - he even put Dickie Clarke in a bind a few times, but this is simply criminal.
#9
I agree with Stephen. We'll be lucky if this makes p.20 of Pravda -- I mean, the NYT -- or WaPo.
Posted by: Infidel Bob ||
07/19/2004 21:06 Comments ||
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#10
I've got $20 that says it's news even in the MSM. They'll try and downplay it, but how do they explain away this:
Berger and his lawyer said Monday night he knowingly removed handwritten notes he had taken from classified anti-terror documents he reviewed at the National Archives by sticking them in his jacket and pants. He also inadvertently took copies of actual classified documents in a leather portfolio, they said.
where else did he stick documents, LOL, in his underwear? This sounds like Clouseau trying to smuggle out info...
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/19/2004 21:11 Comments ||
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#11
It's on Fox right now - Hannity & Colmes. Peter Hoekstra, R Mi, agrees this is a huge issue, if true. That's at least not a white-wash and from someone who can initiate or support action. Also running Berger story on the marquee at bottom of the screen.
#12
Michael Savage is all over this right now too. Questions that need to be answered.
Why did you take those documents. Were you told or asked to take them, if so by who? What was the reason you took them? What exactly was on the documents you misplaced? When did you misplaced them. Where were you when you misplaced them. Did anybody else see or handle any of the documents, if so you are they? Was anybody aware that you had taken documents?
Get this guy in public and get some answers. I'm very pissed about this.
Kills me that some lose their houses for doing their crime, Others get Larry King and a book deal.
Clinton, Kerry Adviser Probed After Taking Home 'Highly Classified' Terror Memos -- And Losing Them!
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/19/2004 21:32 Comments ||
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#14
I'm not even sure that his previous security clearance was intact. It's likely that he was given the clearance by the 9/11 Commission Circus.
The good news is that this is, indeed, under investigation by the Fibbies. And searching for stuff, determining whassup - after the crime, is their forte'. If he's dirty, he's toast. THEN the press can go wild about the persecution of this fine American. Wotta an asshole - I hope they burn his ass to a crisp. And fuck the MSM, lol! Almost forgot that part, heh.
#15
My opinion as to what happened/will happen, FWIW ...
Sandy was sent to purposely intercept something that was known to be politically damaging to members of the previous administration. He will brush off the missing doco as "nothing critical to national security, but 'potentially embarrassing'" (watch for that choice of words) to President Clinton, et al.
The investigation will be carried out, the hammer will drop, Sandy will take the fall ... and the whole time, the question of what was actually in those documents will be ignored. Another gleaming success for politics-by-distraction!
Now, I hope .com is right about there being an electronic storage of everything ... but my gut instinct is that there are still things that are available as hardcopy only as a way to ensure the security of those documents.
#16
He did this accidently through sloppiness. Don't Leahy and his staff do the same thing on purpose?
At least the housekeeping staff at the White Hoise was thoroughly vetted and reliable during the Clinton years. With all the FBI background briefs, intelligence reports and White Water billing reecords lying about among the pizza boxes, cigars butts and used condoms, the garbage man could have had enough of an intelligence windfall to retire to the Caymans with his pockets full of wan.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 22:00 Comments ||
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#17
EM - What you say certainly rings true - and I've never been a Clinton Conspiracist... But I have to wonder: How many people have taken a "fall" of some sort for the Clintons? Jail time, suicide / murder, lost careers in Govt, the whole nine yards. Anybody here deep into this topic? Mebbe you could provide some numbers? If you're right, EM, it's yet another individual biting the bullet for them. There must be some very big bucks behind them - and some hefty bank accounts waiting for these people... at least those who're still alive to spend it. Boggles.
#19
When I was informed by the Archives that there were documents missing, I immediately returned everything I had except for a few document that I apparently had accidentally discarded," he said.
And how were the TOP SECRET documents discarded? In the trash? Obviously had Sandy shredded them, he would have noticed the big TOP SECRET on each page and might have suspected that he shouldn't be destroying them. He should do hard time.
#21
Oh, but, .com ... money isn't needed for the "true believer"(tm) ...
And, remember, that for the "true believer" (tm), the only thing important is a return to power for those willing/able to wield it ... such as someone with last name "Clinton". ;-)
2008! Lol! I bow to your political insight! I'd still demand big bux, but to be called back to serve in some capacity in the New Clinton Admin. Freakin' brilliant! Power is, indeed, the ultimate aphrodesiac!
#23
This isn't going to go away easily... the networks are starting to pick it up and Drudge is all over it.
This just sounds so insane I don't even know what to think. Why would berger risk commiting such a serious crime to protect clinton's ass? Maybe he was protecting his own ass?
#24
Was just at Pejmanesque and he had posted this from USA Today:
...Why were the media so willing to believe Wilson when he was an obvious Democratic partisan? He not only worked for the National Security Council in the Clinton White House, he also is a foreign policy adviser to the Democratic presidential campaign of John Kerry. Why, indeed?...
Now that Berger's busted, anyone else getting a coincidence thought?
Posted by: John ||
07/19/2004 23:18 Comments ||
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#26
The documents seem to have included info on port and airport security.Speculation includes documents may have listed recommendations that if carried out might have prevented 9/11,or dealt w/severe problems w/Boston airport.If so,this would explain why Clinton NSA Advisor tried to sneak the info out.If that's case and Republicans can keep in news for a couple of weeks,that kills Kerry's convention.Which is why I expect major press to try to bury story by weekend.
Posted by: Stephen ||
07/19/2004 23:53 Comments ||
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#27
A2U, ran a couple of libraries of that type. We used recipe cards as it was the early 90's - maybe they still do. An audit would have been required for all signed out material. His signature was on the cards for the missing material.
Gary Aldritch made it pretty clear that other presidents would have terminated many Clinton White House staffers based on on background checks. I alwaysd thought the higher lelvels appointees would have An understanding that copying notes from Top Secret documents onto yellow stickies was an extremely bad idea.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/20/2004 0:14 Comments ||
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via WaPo (h/t: Lucianne) - EFL
Login: cybeprunk@cyberpunk.com / cyberpunk
By Michael Getler - Sunday, July 18, 2004 Ombudsman
There was no ambiguity in the conclusion of the massive report released by the Senate's bipartisan Select Committee on Intelligence on July 9. "Most of the major key judgments" made by the intelligence community about Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction were "either overstated, or were not supported by, the underlying intelligence reporting. A series of failures, particularly in analytic trade craft, led to the mischaracterization of the intelligence."
The Post has done a good job sifting through and reporting on this exhaustively detailed study. But only one of perhaps a score of stories has attracted criticism from readers. That story, by staff writer Susan Schmidt, appeared on Page A9 July 10. It reported on what the committee had to say about a CIA-sponsored trip to Africa by former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV in February 2002 to investigate reports that Iraq was seeking to buy uranium in Africa, and about the role of Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, who was an undercover employee of the CIA at the time, in the decision to send him.
There is no room here to go into all the details, but Wilson's trip, and his subsequent public criticism of the Bush administration, became a much longer-running and high-profile story than his original secret assignment. In addition, a federal grand jury has been conducting a criminal investigation for several months now into who identified Plame by name to columnist Robert D. Novak a year ago. ...more...
And, for those who've followed this closely, has the Ombudsman come clean?
Posted by: .com ||
07/19/2004 1:25:18 AM ||
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#1
The Ombudsman comes about 60% of the way towards clean.
A few people on the left have come clean on this. A lot of people on the left haven't. But, so what? The longer the left defends Wilson, the more it discredits itself.
#2
The white house forced to do that. Bush is losing the voters and Rumsfeld was not help with number of scandals surfacing Iraq.
Posted by: Jim ||
07/19/2004 1:34 Comments ||
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#3
Bullshit, Jim.
Rummy has done an outstanding job.
The WOT has been a big success, the military part of which Rumsfeld has led brilliantly, and Bush is going to win in November.
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 1:39 Comments ||
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#4
Jen, why is Bush going to win? I'm very concerned that the 'Glowboys' are going to get in and really don't want a US hamsrung by those jerks for the next four years. So any evidence you have that points to a Bush re-election will be very welcome to me.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/19/2004 1:53 Comments ||
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#5
Worse scandals about Abu in the wings, I'm afraid. Apparently Motormouth Seymour Hersh addressed an ACLU[barf]conference last week and said the US government has videotapes of boys being sodomized at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. Irony - Hersh expects shock from the ACLU, solicitors on record for NAMBLA and other pervs. "The worst is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking," Seymour Hersh told an ACLU convention last week.
This will not be good for Rummie. That whole Abu scandal had shades of homoeroticism - perhaps yet another legacy of Billie Jeff's "progressive" policies for the military.
Posted by: rex ||
07/19/2004 1:54 Comments ||
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#6
Seymour Hersh? Boys being sodomized at Abu Ghraib?
This has shades of Fred Phelps' site -- "God Hates America".
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
07/19/2004 2:10 Comments ||
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#7
Tony, if you're basing your conclusions on who's going to win the election on what you hear in the press, they will never tell you about the broad-based support for Bush here in America.
(I tend to think that this is true of Britain and Blair, too).
Don't believe the BBC, the WaPo or the NYTimes--not only do a majority support and will support Bush in the fall, but the opposition is terrible!
Many Dems and those "independent" voters just don't like Kerry, just as Michael Howard hasn't done a good job rallying the Tories.
Tony Blair has domestic problems (like with education and the NHS) and there's his support for the EU Constitution which we're all against, but all-in-all, Tony seems to try and work with the British people somewhat.
Bush doesn't have these problems and not only has he conducted the WOT successfully, but he's dealt with a host of domestic issues, also, that give him quite a position of strength politically.
I'm hoping for a landslide Bush victory in November.
But please, don't read the Leftist press (The Guardian and the Independent)--if you must, read the Telegraph and The Sun.
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 2:30 Comments ||
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#8
TUK, the electorial vote should come out in GW favor. Florida will be a close call but I think the voters who checked Bush last time will do so even greater. Texas is big too. And California just had their recall of Clinton lite, Gray Davis, so that is in play. But I don't see the red states going blue, but I see the blue states being in play, even Mass and NY. Hillary got dissed at that police/firefighter memorial. A lot of people know what went down and why.
The problem now is voter fraud. Thats why the popular vote is a fraud. Burns me up!
#9
The problem now is voter fraud.
Motor Voter law = voter fraud. The Motor Voter law should be repealed or it'll eventually make it impossible to get a Republican Prez elected.
Posted by: rex ||
07/19/2004 4:38 Comments ||
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#10
"Rumsfeld drops off the radar screen"
WTF? Is he piloting a low-flying plane or something? Seeing if he can get through someone's radar defenses a la Mathias Rust, who landed his Cessna in Red Square in 1987?
Rumsfeld isn't in the news much because, very likely, Rumsfeld is busy working on the next phase of the war.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
07/19/2004 9:37 Comments ||
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#11
Dave D...I would add to this: Rumsfeld is busy working on the next phase of the war. ...And at the completion of the liberation of a country one is entitled to a little quite time without the partisan media nipping at your heels.
#12
1. Rummy under wraps - hell he was interviewed on NPR this AM. Not very under wraps
2. Abu graib - from what ive seen, it looks like Rummys clean. Probably Feith too, though hes more exposed, and might take the fall. Cambon (sp?) in trouble though.
#13
Tony, for my two cents, the election is both too close to call and (more important) too early to call. The best thing Bush has going for him in pure election terms is Kerry: the guy can't make up his mind and is so boring that a two-minute speech by him seems like two hours. I think the election is likely to be decided by (1) external events and/or (2) plain old machine politicking, i.e., who can get his supporters to the polls on election day.
Posted by: Matt ||
07/19/2004 10:44 Comments ||
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#14
Matt, the best thing President Bush has going for him is his record, which is pretty terrific!
Likewise, the worst thing Kerry has going for him is his (Senate voting) record, too, which is pathetic.
President Bush has accomplished much in less than 4 years, both in foreign policy and domestic, too.
To say that this election--so important because who wins this war is so important and it is after 9/11--is down to "old machine politicking" represents a complete disconnect from current events.
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 10:49 Comments ||
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#15
I agree w/Jen and have been saying all along that if the GOP were to focus on Kerry's liberal senatorial voting record sharply enough - that would prolly give them the firepower needed w/the American voter.
#16
Dragon Fly may have hit on it: "Rumsfeld is busy working on the next phase of the war."
What if it is NOT THE SAME WAR? I would strongly suggest that something big is in the works, and soon. What with seven aircraft carriers toodling about, and Israel announcing it is ready to attack Iran, and...???
#18
Jen, I didn't think Howard was asking why I intended to vote for Bush. The question as I read it was who's going to win, and no matter how strong your record you still need to get your folks down to the voting booths if you want to win. Bit if Bush wins for the reasons you've identified, I'll ululate with the rest of us.
Posted by: Matt ||
07/19/2004 11:15 Comments ||
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#19
Cheers, Matt.
One thing the Republicans are the best at--and 2004 should be no exception--is getting out the vote.
Democrats are abyssmal at this and frankly, I pity them having to get excited about getting out of the house to vote for sKerry.
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 11:27 Comments ||
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#20
Kerry is a terrible, terrible candidate who's already let himself be defined by Bush as, you know, flipper. My greatest fear was that they'd replace him with a real candidate -- Hillary -- but that worry seems to be past.
Bush will win; remember how the media in 2002 kept predicting big Democratic gains? Same dynamic now -- you can't beat something (Bush) with nothing, even if the nothing has a service record.
#21
It all comes down to numbers of warm body voters, not "records" of the incumbent vs the unknown contender.
And although Jen is right about the greater numbers Democrats, unlike Republicans, being less likely in the past to exercise their right to vote, I'm not so sure that the same will be true in this election. For one thing, there is an unprecedented visceral hate for George Bush, the person, by the left that may motivate all those sleepy head Democrat welfare recipients to get out of bed and vote this time.
While I'd agree that Kerry is a loser, he's no worse than Al Goresky was in 2000-let's be honest-AND this time round Kerry has pretty boy Edwards as his running mate. Lieberman was not an asset to Gore, but in as much as I despiese what Edwards represents, Edwards is a very attractive candidate for the Kerry ticket. Picking Edwards was one of the few helpful things Kerry did for himself.
Jen, you can be as optimistic and rah, rah as you want, but that's not going to change reality-it's a tight race and there's no certainty which man will win the WH.
Worst case scenario is that the Republicans lose both the WH and Congress. Best case scenario is the opposite. What may happen is that one party wins the WH and the other party dominates Congress.
Posted by: rex ||
07/19/2004 12:16 Comments ||
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#22
We, Republicans, get out the vote. Period.
(Lib Dims will bitch til the cows come home about how much they hate Bush and then never register to vote.)
And I fully expect the GOP to keep a firm majority in the House and to pick up some seats in the Senate giving us a bigger majority there.
The real record the American people have is 9/11 itself.
We had 8 years of Clinton and Dimocrat policies, all of which proved to be failures.
Under President Bush, we have liberated 2 countries and 50 million people with minimal casualties on both sides, haven't had another terror attack here, passed the partial birth abortion ban, tax cuts, education bill, faith-based charity initiative and Medicare prescription drugs.
We've set up the Patriot Act and Homeland Security and we are catching and putting on trial those who've supported terrorism here and also we've frozen their funds around the world.
Al Queda was put on effective notice from 9/11 onwards that they had attacked the wrong country and would pay dearly for killing innocent Americans.
If listing our accomplishments under Bush is being "rah-rah," i guess I'm a Bushie cheerleader.
So what?
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 12:27 Comments ||
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#23
Oh, and rex, you and one other guy are the only people in the country who think Edwards is such an asset for the Dim ticket--Kerry's numbers went up 1 whole point, whereas it was thought they would go up by 15.
They're calling it the 'dead cat bounce."
Americans are sick to death of trial lawyers.
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 12:33 Comments ||
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#24
Jen...just as an aside. The 15% bounce expectation was created by the Republicans. This was not widely believed to be the bump they would receive. Essentially we set the Democrats for an image of failure when they failed to get a 15% bounce.
Fools! That means he's engaged his cloaking device! One dares not trifle with the Master.
Posted by: Mike ||
07/19/2004 12:37 Comments ||
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#26
The only thing Kerry/Edwards can rely on to help them get into office is bad news. The economy is recovering; Iraq has been liberated and turned back over to the Iraqis; Afghanistan is Taliban-free and rebuilding; and there has not been another terror attack like 9/11 since 9/11. Granted, things aren't perfectly rosy, as the continuing attacks in Iraq show, but what Kerry/Edwards need is something horrendously bad.
Posted by: Dar ||
07/19/2004 12:41 Comments ||
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#27
I hope you are right about Edwards, but I think you are wrong. Edwards is an asset and since you claim to only read the Washington Times because of the fear that other journals may infect your fine mind,I doubt you have any basis to crowing about the Edwards choice giving Kerry a dead cat bounce. What you have to be careful about, Jen, is intellectually distancing your rah-rah everything is coming up roses with GWB naive vision from what's out there in the real world.
Posted by: rex ||
07/19/2004 12:41 Comments ||
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#28
Oh, I read everything--it's only the WashTimes and FoxNews that I believe!
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 12:44 Comments ||
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#29
Tony (UK):
You might want to check out the Iowa Electronic Markets, at
http://www.biz.uiowa.edu/iem/
and look under "political markets". The Presidential Winner-Takes-All market and the Presidential Vote Shares Market are real-money futures markets on the outcome of the race and, if what I've heard is true, they have a rather good record of predicting election outcomes.
My own view is that Bush will win, although I expect it is going to be a VERY close-run race. But that's just my opinion.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
07/19/2004 12:47 Comments ||
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#30
rex, if you think the Dems could take Congress I have this bridge to sell you...
#31
Look, #30, it's a dead heat race for the Oval Office. Everyone but Jen recognizes that fact. The country is divided into a 2 party battle ground, with a small percentage of undecided, who will decide the election of the President. So why are you so confident that Congressional races will not have similar close match ups? As a poster noted in another thread, the Republicans are having troubles fielding good candidates. And voter fraud, which we know exists, will have no less an effect on Congressional races than it will have on the Presidential race. So explain to me the reasons for your confidence?
Posted by: rex ||
07/19/2004 13:05 Comments ||
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#32
Worse scandals about Abu in the wings, I'm afraid. Apparently Motormouth Seymour Hersh addressed an ACLU[barf]conference last week and said the US government has videotapes of boys being sodomized at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. Irony - Hersh expects shock from the ACLU, solicitors on record for NAMBLA and other pervs.
If true (with Hersh it's safe to bet it's not), then it's likely videotapes of prisoners raping other prisoners. Remember, one of the photos was of two guys being punished for raping another prisoner.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/19/2004 14:28 Comments ||
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#33
rex, I refuse to let the media (or you) tell me who to vote for!
It's only their biased polls that say this race is going to be close or that Kerry is leading.
Polls don't vote.
And Americans are not going to vote against a strong, successful Presidential incumbent in the middle of a war!
And I haven't heard or read anywhere that the GOP is having problems fielding good candidates for Congress.
It's more Dimocrat disinformation!
The Abu Ghraib story was dead weeks ago and Seymour Hersh should have hung it up 30 years ago.
Why come to RB or visit the blogosphere at all if you believe everything the MSM tells you?
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 14:43 Comments ||
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#34
If true (with Hersh it's safe to bet it's not), then it's likely videotapes of prisoners raping other prisoners.
I got 20 bucks that says the videos are porn film clips, doctored and planted, presumably right in Hersh's mailbox. Any takers?
#35
I'm in, badanov!
(and I'll bet they excited Seymour, too!)
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 14:52 Comments ||
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#36
rex, I refuse to let the media (or you) tell me who to vote for!
What are you raving about now? Who said I was talking to you, much less trying to convince you of doing anything but to keep focused and on point?
Why come to RB or visit the blogosphere at all if you believe everything the MSM tells you?
I come to Rantburg to exchange information with fellow conservatives, with people who read widely and who expose their brains to ideas beyond what they hear by looking at their reflection in their bathroom mirror.
Oh well, yet another discussion thread ruined by shrill, empty-headed attempts at character assassination.
Posted by: rex ||
07/19/2004 14:55 Comments ||
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#37
rex, you mentioned me by my name, which is why I assumed you were talking to me, among others.
And as you are repeating the Dimocrat talking points to be found on the cable news and virtually every online newspaper about the election, I made a general appeal that savvy RB readers see them for what they are and not swallow those talking points wholesale.
I did not engage in assassinating your character before, but now, but I will say this: you, sir, are no Conservative.
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 14:59 Comments ||
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#38
you mentioned me by my name
Do you read anything in full? I mentioned your name as an aside in a sentence about the fact that most normal people recognize that this will be a close election in November. In another instance I mentioned that you were wrong about Edwards being an asset to Kerry and another poster added that the dead cat bounce analogy you used was based on a false premise of "high hopes."
I DID NOT ADDRESS YOU as in trying to persuade you to change your vote or to engage you in further dialogue. Believe me, I have zero interest in your predictable, unsupported views, Jen, sorry but I'm being honest.
I did not engage in assassinating your character before, but now, but I will say this: you, sir, are no Conservative.
LOL. That's all you do is make personal attacks on people, that's your modus operandi, to try to drive posters away by accusing them of being closet Democrats or of being racist or chauvinistic or being John Birch member. Your repartee posts are emptyheaded emotional attacks.
How's this for a fresh start, please do me the courtesy of NOT responding to my posts. And I will extend to you the same courtesy. Then we can enjoy exchanging ideas with other Rantburg posters without chancing a clash with one another.
Posted by: rex ||
07/19/2004 15:30 Comments ||
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#39
I will be compelled to respond to your posts if they're filled with untruths, disinformation or spin from the Left side of the aisle, as they have been in the past.
It's nothing personal; I just love my country and my President and I want us to win this war.
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 15:33 Comments ||
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#40
What a clever choice you made, Jen. Hey girl, you go for it. Be my guest at attacking me personally with your rants. Maybe you will be successful and drive me off Rantburg. Then you can claim victory and start again on raj and aris and mike espinosa and why not take on some new targets who show too much individualized thinking...like jarhead and Lucky... and then there's also .com who often does not toe the rah rah line so he can be problem to Jen's perfect world as well.
We'll see how long it will be before you drive every interesting poster off Rantburg and cause the number of hits for this forum to nose dive into the toilet. P.S. Claiming that you do what you do because you love your country and your President does not excuse your rude, abrasive, and distracting posting style.
Posted by: rex ||
07/19/2004 15:57 Comments ||
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#41
I think you are the one that is trying to attack me personally and drive me off the forum.
So that makes us even.
As for distracting ability, you wrote the book on that one. Literally.
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 16:01 Comments ||
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#42
Oh lets put money were the mouth is 50 bucks sez Bush wins .If Kerry wins I put 50 in tipjar for Rantburg if Bush wins you put 50 in Rex.
#43
Tony-The truth is we are all doing a crapshoot here. Who has the blueprints of the future?
Who could have predicted the news that has come out incrementally over the past 5 months in Iraq, both to Bush's favor and detriment? I think it's going to come down to what news hits and in what sequence. What if Oil-For-Food gets more "interesting"? What if there is a large-scale terrorist attack (anywhere)? What if a brand new scandal on any of the candidates comes out? When one asks what will happen, recall a line from a well-loved movie-"difficult to say-always in motion, the future".
(BTW-I wish I would stop reading gloating comments about how there hasn't been an attack in the US since 9/11-yes the admin has done an outstanding job, but as they themselves say, all you have to do is make a mistake once and jihadis have a terrorist "success".
#44
rex: gerrymandered (mostly incumbent-protecting) Congressional districts. The Texas redistricting alone essentially guarantees continued Republican control of the House.
We have listened to Senator Kerry falsely attack President Bush for months over funding for veterans, and it's time to set the record straight. The truth is President Bush has led the way on improving veterans' benefits, supporting our troops and restoring honor and dignity to the White House.
Since 2001, President Bush has increased veterans funding by over $20 billion, and funding for veterans' health care has increased by 40 percent since he took office. Funding for veterans has gone up twice as fast under President Bush as it did under President Clinton, and those who accuse the President of cutting funding are simply not being honest with veterans.
Meanwhile, John Kerry voted against a $1.3 billion increase in veterans health care, skipped votes on concurrent receipt and voted against funding for our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. And while he talks a good game, Kerry's record shows he is out of the mainstream. The American Flag symbolizes our ideals, our history and our values. President Bush shares this belief and supports a Constitutional Amendment banning desecration of the Flag. John Kerry believes this is "an attack on free speech."
We are disturbed that John Kerry would try to scare veterans with his false accusations, and we are disappointed in his lack of support for today's troops. Please join us in setting the record straight and showing your support for President Bush -- a leader who has proven his support for those who have served, backs our troops defending our nation and shares our values.
Sincerely,
John Baker, Jr.
Medal of Honor Recipient
General Pat Brady, USA (Ret.)
Medal of Honor Recipient
Robert Bush
Medal of Honor Recipient
David C. Dolby
Medal of Honor Recipient
Walter Ehlers
Medal of Honor Recipient
James Fleming
Medal of Honor Recipient
Rodolfo "Rudy" Hernandez
Medal of Honor Recipient
Thomas J. Hudner
Medal of Honor Recipient
Robert R. Ingram
Medal of Honor Recipient
Arthur Jackson
Medal of Honor Recipient
George Charles Lang
Medal of Honor Recipient
Major General James Livingston, USMC (Ret.)
Medal of Honor Recipient
David McNerney
Medal of Honor Recipient
Ola "Lee" Mize
Medal of Honor Recipient
Robert Modrzejewski
Medal of Honor Recipient
Robert O'Malley
Medal of Honor Recipient
Richard A. Pittman
Medal of Honor Recipient
James Taylor
Medal of Honor Recipient
Michael Thornton
Medal of Honor Recipient
Gary Wetzel
Medal of Honor Recipient
Paul Wiedorfer
Medal of Honor Recipient
Posted by: OldSpook ||
07/19/2004 12:25:43 AM ||
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This was forwarded to me on a mailing list. Fred feel free to move it or edit it - but please consider leaving the list of names intact.
Its pretty impressive seeing who the MoH group lines up with.
Just wondering if the press will ever report news (esoecially fo this sort and the "Bush was right" uranium stuff) instead of functioning as a campaign arm of Kerry/Edwards-04
#2
I posted this a day or 2 ago and no one commented. Glad you posted again.
Posted by: rex ||
07/19/2004 0:44 Comments ||
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#3
Thats what I mean. Joe Average knows what came down, knows who, what, were, why. The uninformed will be late for work come election day and they'll be loaded that night.
#4
All you have to do is go to military.com to see the improvemments in Vetrans Benefits.I am a Vet that depends on Vetrans health care(and have for many years).The Tucson Vetrans Medical Center has taken damn good care of me($15,000 prosthetic leg for one thing,I think they are getting ripped off.Not for the leg itself,it was manufactured on-site.But the gel-sock cost $6,000.
#9
The VA estimates that the cost of providing adequate health care to all veterans under current law in 2004 is $30 billion.4 The final budget, which gives VA $30 billion for all discretionary funding in FY 2004, allocates only $29 billion for VA health care. This is thus $1 billion less than the Administrationâs own estimates acknowledge is needed to provide care to all veterans. Moreover, the VAâs fiscal constraints will get even worse due to cuts in future years. The budget passed by Congress provides $1 billion less than the Presidentâs request for FY 2005 - FY 2008.5
Overall, the VA budget for the next decade provides $6 billion less funding than Congressional
Budget Office estimates is necessary to meet obligations under current law.
#10
what an angry little man A5876! "due to cuts in future years" - how do you know what will be spent in future years, Nostradamus? Are you talking cuts in increases? Cuts in current budget? You're talking out your ass, troll. Raptor's needs were met based on his service, and good on him for that! STFU
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/20/2004 16:36 Comments ||
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Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 14:53 Comments ||
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#2
Excellent follow up article--I am really glad to see this. I had serious doubts about the initial article, but this has convinced me of its veracity. I can only hope this is as widely distributed as the initial article was and the outcry will lead to some reforms--like arming the pilots, actual profiling instead of this random "fair" screening selection B.S. that masquerades as a security measure, and enforcement of already established rules, such as no congregating in the aisles! Enough of this pussyfooting around!
Posted by: Dar ||
07/19/2004 15:54 Comments ||
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There's also a veryyyyyyyyyyy interesting article on World Net Daily....Syrians taking flight lessons at a muslim owned flight school in Texas. Also, Iranians coming in....
Posted by: jawa ||
07/19/2004 19:22 Comments ||
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#4
Sorry, found the meat, under the self-congradulation.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 23:16 Comments ||
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The Koranic passage CAIR quotes about "stand up firmly for justice" is not about issuing press releases or signing petitions. "Standing up for justice should mean taking real action." Stephen Schwartz, a Sufi, tells me. "In today's situation, that translates into identifying and helping arrest Muslim evildoers by driving them from the community; outlining a straight path of moderation; and making clear one's loyalty to America."
Nebulous condemnation statement with no attached action - guess we know which convention Cair will be attending. Maybe some of their 650K signatores are helping draft the platform.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 15:03 Comments ||
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SH - Maybe?
How about "most assuredly"?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/19/2004 15:32 Comments ||
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Barb and Super h
I doubt any CAIR types had much to do with the Dem platform on the mideast. It was written mostly by Representative Robert Wexler (who lives in my neighborhood). The platform on the mideast is very pro Israel and will be very similar to the Republican platform.
On the other hand, the Nadar platform on the mideast will be very anti Israel and CAIR wouldn't even need to lobby to get it that way.
#4
mhw, would Kerry follow Bush's lead on Israel or would he tend more towards the Carter Clinton position with repect to Middleast Peace - I beleive their position is unofficially termed 'doggie style' in some quarters.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 23:20 Comments ||
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America's spy chief yesterday said while several al-Qaeda plots against America have been foiled since Sept. 11, 2001, the terror threat remains as high as it has ever been.
``We've disrupted plots - maritime plots, air plots, plots against infrastructure, plots being planned overseas - to unfold in the United States in all of these things,'' said John E. McLaughlin, acting director of the Central Intelligence Agency, without providing any specifics.
But al-Qaeda remains ruthlessly determined to strike America again, he stressed.
``It's important to remember here that for these people, an attack in the United States is the brass ring,'' McLaughlin said on the ``Fox News Sunday'' show. ``We can be successful 1,000 times and these people have to be lucky only once.''
Fugitive al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden is probably hiding somewhere near the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, the spy agency head said.
``A lot of the reports indicate that, and we give some credibility to that,'' McLaughlin said.
McLaughlin rejected the recommendation expected this week from the Sept. 11 commission that a national intelligence chief be appointed to oversee all intelligence gathering.
``With some modest changes in the way the CIA is set up, the director of Central Intelligence could carry out that function well and appropriately,'' McLaughlin said.
The spy agency head noted that while Iran has been singled out as a state sponsor of terrorism, the country was not directly involved in the 9/11 plot.
``I would stop there and say we have no evidence that there is some sort of official sanction by the government of Iran for this activity,'' he said.
McLaughlin said while there were contacts and training exchanges between Iraq and al-Qaeda, there was no ``relationship of operational control or command'' between the two. Still, he cautioned, the exact nature of the relationship remains ``an evolving story.''
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/19/2004 8:37:17 AM ||
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#1
Keep up the great work. It is a pretty thankless job, since the more successful you are, the less apparent it is that you've done anything.
It will continue to be a thankless job until the CIA starts displaying some necessary PR awareness.
Frankly, after their singular lack of success in foreseeing any major event over the past, oh, two decades (Collapse of the USSR ? HEL-lo !), I am unwilling to accept the claim that they have necessarily unpublicized "successes".
Uh-uh, I don't believe you guys anymore.
Start figuring out how to publicize your "successes" without compromising yourself.
And you better start soon, because right now I am on the "raze the CIA, sow Langley with salt, and start over" end of the spectrum, so you guys have a looooooong way to go.
/rant
Posted by: Carl in N.H ||
07/19/2004 11:51 Comments ||
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I was a Damage Control Assistant(DCA) on a ship. Sucessful DCA's remain happily "thankless." Post 9/11, our homeland team has made internal security boring an uneventful. I hope all firemen, policemen and EMT's continue to be underappreciated for the near future.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 12:02 Comments ||
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#4
DCA? Yikes! No man is more reviled on a ship after a REFTRA or INSURV visit than a DCA.
Nothing is less glamorous than watertight doors or fire hoses, but without them the ship goes to the bottom if hit. A perfect analogy.
#5
Carl, the CIA for all it's probs had 25 years of hand cuffing from stupid policies (Toricelli) and gutting by the Clinton admin. I don't blame it all on the agents, I blame it on the piss-ant politicians who put them in the position of having no human intel.
I hear you bro, but I want the CIA to show me the money.
Curse the politicos of course, but the CIA really needs to start showing what they are doing for us. They need to balance out their spectacular failures with some successes.
I call bullsh!t on their claims without publicizing the results to back them up.
#7
Jarhead, I am impressed with McLaughlin. An organizatrion with brains and determination should do the job now that the shakles are being removed. The judgement of the CIA's effectiveness should be done by Congress. If Congressmen wanted to perform oversight effectively, it wouldn't be hard to come up with a batting average on intelligence items. It would work very simular to Fred's terrorism futures set-up, but it would deal with individual pieces of intelligence. Regardless, the results would), have to be classified - until political football season rolled around.
OT - with respect to civil liberties, does anyone ever notice how tame the provisions of the evil Patriot Act are when compared to the Espionage Act (1917), Sedition Act (1918) or Smith Act?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 16:42 Comments ||
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#8
No man is more reviled on a ship after a REFTRA or INSURV visit than a DCA.
Actually, if you do your job right, the DCA should be the most reviled man before OPPE, REFTRA, or INSURV.
EFL & Hat tip to Instapundit
American officials believe that millions of dollars Saddam Hussein skimmed from the scandal-plagued U.N. oil-for-food program are now being used to help fund the bloody rebel campaign against U.S. forces and the new Iraqi government, The Post has learned. U.S. intelligence officials and congressional investigators said last night that the "oil-for-insurgency link" has been recently unearthed in the numerous probes now under way into the giant U.N. humanitarian program, in which Saddam is believed to have pocketed $10.1 billion through oil smuggling and kickbacks from suppliers.
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
07/19/2004 10:59:13 AM ||
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http://acepilots.com/unscam/ everything about the UN oil for food scam.....
#2
Thank God I am not the only one who can see how stupid the concept is of seeking approval from the UN on anything anymore-they are the very people who greased the skids for stealing money from Iraq using Oil for Food. I hope it all comes out and every corrupt "allied" leader that Kerry wants us kissing up to is revealed to be the criminal he/she is.
EFL- Iran says that the WOT is all over. We can all go home now.
Iran says it has located and dismantled all branches of the al-Qaeda network in the country. Intelligence Minister Ali Yunesi said his ministry had stopped al-Qaeda's terrorist acts, state TV reported. However, the broadcast gave no details of the operation and did not say how many people had been detained. Iran has previously denied allegations that it gave sanctuary to al-Qaeda fugitives who escaped the US-led invasion of neighbouring Afghanistan. In January, Iranian Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi announced that 12 suspected al-Qaeda members being held in Iran would go on trial, but he did not say when. "We are too buzy with the research involved with the death of the Canadian Journalists. Ah, such a difficult case we have never seen. The process might take two whole days in court."
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 11:35:50 PM ||
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Well, if Iran says so...
Posted by: John ||
07/19/2004 23:53 Comments ||
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Iran says it has located and dismantled all branches of the al-Qaeda network in the country.
Haahahahahahahahahaaa, this is about as funny as when Iraqi authorities, in the runup to the war, promised to help the inspectors find their own banned weapons.
From FoxNews.com [EFL] ...
President Bush said Monday the United States is exploring whether Iran had any role in the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, a scenario discounted by the CIA... "We will continue to look and see if the Iranians were involved," Bush said. "I have long expressed my concerns about Iran. After all it's a totalitarian society where people are not allowed to exercise their rights as human beings... As to direct connections with Sept. 11, we're digging into the facts to determine if there was one," said the president, who has branded Iran as part of an "axis of evil" along with North Korea and prewar Iraq when it was ruled by Saddam Hussein.
A hard-line prosecutor has ordered Iranian newspapers to censor their coverage of a trial of a secret agent accused of murdering an Iranian-Canadian photojournalist, journalists said Monday. Speaking to government spokesman Abdollah Ramezanzadeh after his weekly press conference, several reporters said Tehran prosecutor Saeed Mortazavi called their offices and told them to not report on parts of the trial, which ended abruptly Sunday. One journalist said Mortazavi told him, "It's in your interest to consider the murder trial over and avoid publishing things that you should not."
#1
So has anyone noticed the recent upsurge in Iranian "FOAD"s? Seem like they'd really like a tussle right about now: Agents in Iraq, border incursions in Iraq, the Brit boat heist and now the moot court stuff with Canada.
- you don't suppose they read the news reports about how over-extended the US military is , do you? and I wonder what kind of a deal they have cooked up with their little playmate, "Kimmie, the Wonder Wart"? We'll get their attention, then when they move those troops out of SK, you kick 'em.
#2
I'm not sure that the death of a Canadian journalist would be newsworthy in Iran to begin with. Many of their own journalists are behind bars already. I can't remember whether Castro has more journalists in prison or whether Iran is the world leader in press suppression.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 22:24 Comments ||
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#1
Damnit, W. F**k your 2'nd term, we would all (awake American's) hate to see another 9/11 on an exponential scale to awaken our sleeping bretheren. Faster, and don't be a pussycat. Post November may be too late.
Michael, with due and proper kudos to Dan for doing alot of the legwork, thank you. Your clarity is refreshing, maybe W will open his eyes before he multiplies his father's mistake a million times.
#2
Anbody think that the real reason we are moving armor out of SK so quickly is for clean-up in Iran? The IDF makes the airstrike to flush the nuclear toilet...we put another armored division on the border to keep the blackhats at bay??
#3
ABC News just today had a GW quote about the spicifics of the Iranian Brewhaha currently raging. He mentioned all the main points, Nuclar, AQ connections and such. Thats a good sign.
It's how you take out these guys out that is way beyond my feeble mind to game. But Ladeen made an interesting point about how past enemies shot their wad prematurely and forcing our response.
#4
Ledeen is making a huge mistake if he believes that there isn't an aggressive policy in place against Iran. It just isn't being delineated in a bright line way publicly. Yet.
#5
I agree. Though I can see Ledeen's viewpoint, he hasn't been willing to give the administration much credit-- for either integrity or common sense-- on Iran: he wants action, he wants it right NOW, and has taken that position for many months.
The way I see it, the main purpose of the Iraq war was to establish the necessary prerequisites for getting down to the REAL nitty-gritty in the WoT: (1) establishing a secure supply of oil that is not subject to capricious shut-off by pissed-off Arab sheikhs or Persian mullahs, and (2) a secure land base that's adequate for large-scale American military operations against Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia.
Those are the two ingredients we've never had in the past. And now we have them.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
07/19/2004 15:50 Comments ||
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#6
For my kids and their kids, your kids and all of of our kids sake, I hope you guys are right. Hopefully W is making the tough and right decisions behind the scenes.
But never matter how dark the hour, as a proud descendent of the Crusader Jordan d'Exeter who prevailed against the Moselm hordes on the banks of the River Jordan against all odds... Percussa Resurgo, "When struck down, I rise again."
#7
Dave, if W doesn't gain the second term, then those plans would be for naught. Thus the need for after faster, please.
sKerry take the fight the the terror masters? hah! Our great grandchildren and their grandchildren may still be fighting this crusade, in the streets of our cities, if that happens.
#8
"Dave, if W doesn't gain the second term, then those plans would be for naught. Thus the need for after faster, please."
I hear ya, believe me: I've had a sharp knife out for the Black Hats ever since November, 1979. I knew then, during the Iran Hostage Crisis, and I've known every day since, that those people are at war with us and mean to destroy both us and our entire way of life. And my reaction on 9/11, as I watched the plane slam into the South Tower, was not "Oh, my God! We're at war!"; it was "Well, I wonder if we're going to start taking the goddamn murderous Muslim bastards seriously NOW and start doing something about them?"
Yes, if Bush doesn't win a second term, whatever plans he's made will most definitely come to naught: Kerry is no leader; he's a follower, like Clinton. Kerry's entire record of the last quarter-century suggests that if elected, we will see a prompt cessation of all meaningful activity in the WoT and a return to ineffectual, superficial piddling-around with the U.N. and the EU.
But at the same time, I really cannot see how Bush could possibly have pulled off any kind of forceful confrontation with Iran without first establishing a base for our forces in the area, and securing a supply of oil for the West; nor can I see how he could possibly do anything decisive right now, in the current political climate. Would you trust the Democrats to refrain from undermining the effort if they thought they could get a few more votes at the expense of thousands of American soldiers' lives? I wouldn't.
I suspect the administration had originally envisioned moving against Iran before the election this fall; but the Democrats threw a monkey wrench into the works by embracing their lunatic-left anti-war fringe. I didn't foresee that, and I suspect the Bush administration didn't, either. Who could have imagined the unity we all felt after 9/11 would be so quickly swept aside by domestic politics? I certainly didn't.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
07/19/2004 17:11 Comments ||
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#9
Maybe we should think in terms of the time we can keep all those carrier battle groups deployed. Oh, but wait, that's just an exercise.
Posted by: Matt ||
07/19/2004 17:46 Comments ||
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#10
If W doesn't win in November, look for the wheels to come off the wagon. The same freakshow that Clinton had as a cabinet is waiting in the wings to "rectify" the "mistakes" of Rumsfeld, Rice, and Powell. Rudyard Kipling's "Recessional" best describes what would happen next:
Far-called, our navies melt away;
  On dune and headland sinks the fire:
Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
  Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
#11
How are we going to go into Iran right away? Our military is tapped out, both financially and, momre importantly, from a manpower standpoint.
I don't get why the Bush Admin has not increased the size of the services, reversing some of the cuts of the Clinton years. While I agree with the Rumsfeld "be nimble" theory, we just have too much to do with the existing force structure. The reserves are not designed for repeated, long term deployments.
I would like to see the pres publicly cut some non-defense programs and redirect those funds to the military with the express purpose of adding 2-3 operational divisions. I know this will take some time, but this war is going to be a long one and we are going to need a larger force. Better to be ready sooner.
Posted by: remote man ||
07/19/2004 19:23 Comments ||
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#12
RM - Where you been, bro? It's been lonely, but I've tried repeatedly to get this particular discussion off the ground - going waaay back (6+ months) when Old Patriot was around to argue with me. OS has teased us with an undescribed alternative - still waiting for him to reveal the game-plan (Now would be good, OS! Please? Help! Lol!)
Short-term or long-term? Short-term is nuke facility destruction. Long-term is regime-change...
Think:
1) Decap strike (TLAMs, cruise missiles, standoff Naval fire) Mad Mullahs, Rev Guard, Guardian Council, new Puppet Legislature, Basij... Have GPS coords, will decap...
2) Spec Forces ops for hard targets (fixed bases, etc.) and securing oil infrastructure
3) Arming populace - THEY are the boots on the ground and this will be, primarily, their revolution. Scale up or down the two previous items depending upon the degree with which they are willing to take on the Mullahs.
4) 100% Air Cover and helicopters (attack & transport) offered to facilitate native pop.
Just my 2 cents since no one else has ever been as stupid as me and tried to specify anything beyond the magic word "decap".
I think yours is the strategy. The general Iranian populace is the additional "2-3 operational divisions." They need air cover, and the decapitation strikes, but that shouldn't be a problem given that the Mad Mullahs are giving us plenty of reasons for us to hit them. As you said, the Iranin people "are the boots on the ground." And, they are damn sick of the Mullahs.
#14
If Bush loses in November I think you'll see a large scale attack on Iranian facilities by Israel before January. Followed by US forces provoking Iranian forces on the border to draw them into open conflict. War with Iran will be unavoidable before Bush leaves office in January.
That being said the odds of Kerry winning in November are almost non-existent.
#15
As a general point the problem here isn't islam it's extremism. For many reasons on average muslims are FAR more religious than christians, jews etc. Most christians and jews believe in religion in an abstract way, they don't buy that things happened the way they're written... instead viewing these things as metaphors etc. They also understand that many of the rules written in the bible applied to a different time and are not applicable in today's world.
Many muslims take there religion word for word. This is the problem, it is not some abstract concept for them with metaphors and moral lessons. It is the word of god.
That being said there are moderate muslims who don't buy into the whole thing and view relgiion the way most christians and jews do. As a % they are rarer but they do exist.
The goal isn't to elimnate islam, because this is impossible. The goal is to elminate extremism. I believe spreading democracy and capitalism as quickly as possible throughout the world, using war as neccesary is the way to proceed. I also believe that if we don't act soon and with extreme aggresivness things will become MUCH more difficult for us shortly.
#16
BTW, why is it (again) that student demonstrations in Iran arenât newsworthy? My wife had a bunch of Iranian friends in college and expects revolt, soon. These kinds of things are probably a warm up.
/*sarcasm on*/ Oh, thatâs right (I forgot), it doesnât bash the U.S. or Bush, so it canât be newsworthy. /*sarcasm off*/
#17
cingold - Oops, needed at least one carriage return between images!
I think they're ready, or nearly so. It stopped being a youth-only movement when they (The Basij thugs) started the brutality - that changed a lot of Joe Average Persian minds, and they now support the kids. I can see a few older people in the second photo - bottom left are 2 older guys.
If our CIA isn't frozen in place due to Tenet's resignation, then one would suppose they are mining contacts and offering real support to these people - and, without giving away the farm, trying to coordinate action at some point in time. One thing I do not doubt at all: we are getting tons of intel - it just needs vetting and I believe we have contacts there to do that.
#18
DPA, I'm not convinced that the average muslim is more devout than the average Christian, etc. It's just that their religion involves required DAILY rituals while Christian services are required only WEEKLY.
Posted by: Tibor ||
07/19/2004 21:19 Comments ||
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#19
Tibor, thats what I'm hoping too. Do good and free a muslim.
Wonder if contact has been made to Iranians ready for the fight.
If it gets destroyed, there will be more than one type of fallout spreading over Iran.
And to be sure, the Israelis are going to have to be very creative: they cannot overfly Iraq on the way in or out.
Unless they are hiding an operational aircraft carrier someplace, put a pin in the reactor location on the map, draw 3 sets of circles: smaller ones are the 2-way max laden range of an F-16 and then an F-15. Largest ones are 1-way range circles. In between is an irregular outline -bascially max-range from the reactor to the border, and then out from there (i.e. flying in to do the strike and ejecting just across the border).
Now examine the areas where there exist sufficiently isolated areas where a temporary airfield could be set up by commandos. Commandos who arrive via a commercial cargo plane and parachutes, and depart as soon as the F-15/16 lands, refuels, and takes off again.
Now look at the approach routes availabe from those areas. See which ones provide the best ingress, least opportunity to be picked up by *anyone's* on radars.
And if its a one-way trip, you dont need to worry about egress.
This is what's going to happen, unless Israel has some MRBM's that can reach that reactor, which I have not seen anything saying they do.
Faced with Mullahs with nukes and long range missles (from N Korea probably), there comes a time you ask your pilots to give their lives to save their nation.
Question left as an exercise to the readers (and the Mullahs): Remember Chernobyl?
#21
OS - Excellent. And if Bush is re-elected or it happens before November, then it will definitely be a 2-way trip with refueling available. He's got the stones and hasn't wimped on any real threat, despite all the boo-birds who want everything nuked yesterday and blame him for not doing so.
The F16I's that were commented upon just a couple of days ago - word was that they had the range. This page says they can hit "well within" Iran - 500 mile range.
So maybe none of the Israelis will have to take such drastic chances as E&E on foot. But I still believe Bush would be there for them, if needed. Skeery would pontificate and roll-over for a UN butt-probe.
#22
Old Spook, If I were going to set up the Op, I would look top pay dollars for a one night air strip rental in one of the Stan's and then arrange to ditch the aircraft in the GOO for submarine pick-up.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 23:01 Comments ||
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Hat-tip to the master, Instapundit:
UPDATE: David Pinto emails:
I posted this in the comments to Brad DeLong's 1030 Days post, but I thought you'd be interested:
An attack against Iran will be much easier now since we can force them into a two front war, attacking from both Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe this has been the strategy all along.
We've done a pretty good job of surrounding potential trouble makers. Pakistan has the US on one side and India on the other. Iran has the US on two fronts. And Syria has the US and Israel on two fronts. Not a bad strategic maneuver.
Gee, do you think they had that in mind all along?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! /Rumsfeld fu
Posted by: Spot ||
07/19/2004 11:25:38 AM ||
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We will threaten them to bring their forces to the borders, but we will not attack. Iran will be forced to choose whether to guard against invasion or rebellion.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 15:11 Comments ||
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#2
Don't read too much into my statement. It was the first thing that popped into my mind.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 15:17 Comments ||
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#3
Unless we find a 'smoking gun', W won't be able to attack. He sure can rattle the bars of their cages, though.
#7
IMHO, W had all the reasons he needed to take out Saddam, even without the WMDs.
The problem isn't with W, it's with the DONKS and Media, especially after the Iraq WMD thingy. While many of us don't even read/listen/see the Media, the vast majority of Americans do. W needs a strong case.
I believe, along with Steyn, that Osama never left Tora Bora and he is nourishing various worms and other life forms. I also believe that most of AlQ has been in Iran for a while, protected and supported by the IRGC. Now, if we could show that, I think the American people would support a mission to Iran.
#8
.com - LOL! Rummy's da Man.
I sure as hell hope they have this strategy. The blackhats and Baby Assad need a good whooppin'. Iran has been asking for it since 1979. (Don't get me started on that pussy Jimma Carta...)
#9
Spot - :) thx! Amen, bro. I hear lotsa grumbles about Bush not doing lots of public stuff on Iran. Lol! WTF do they think - that he's gonna show his hand in the middle of an election season? Especially one that's virtually tied? And their insecurities are "special" and he should do it to make them feel better? The public's right to know. Pfeh.
Bush is doing what a Commander in Chief should be doing: keeping tabs, planning, supporting our ally - the target - Israel, etc. No matter what shows up in the press, make no mistake that the Mad Mullahs are getting all of the messages being sent their way. That they misunderstand them as often as not is, of course, a problem with their stupidity. No doubt they are "getting it" often enough.
#16
Accidents and serendipity, mainly. That link came from GK - THANX, GK! Lol! They're all over, you just gotta save the links - and Sacred Cow must have 200-250 images, alone!
Ayman al-Zawahiri was released in the summer of 1997. He joined Osama bin Laden in Jalalabad and re-established his links with the Iranians secretly. By this time the Iranians had started denouncing not only the Taliban but also Al Qaeda because Arab fighters played an important role in all the major battles in northern Afghanistan.
An old friend of bin Laden and Zawahiri was, however, still getting help from the Iranians. His name: Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. This Pashtun leader and ex-prime minister of Afghanistan had deadly differences with both Ahmed Shah Masood and the Taliban. He was living in Tehran under official security. He advised the Iranians not to speak against bin Laden because the Saudi dissident was also speaking against America.
I met Osama bin Laden again in May 1998. By this time he was under a lot of restriction from the Taliban and he did not speak for an alliance between the Taliban and Iran. Then, in April 2001, an international conference on the Palestinian dispute was arranged in Tehran by the government of Iran. Hizbullah chief Hassan Nasrallah, Hamas leader Khalid Mashaal, and other militant leaders participated in that conference. I learnt during this conference that many Al Qaeda leaders of Arab origin were living in Tehran. I found it hard to believe because the Iranians were condemning the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the international press. But they were also secretly in contact with them.
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/19/2004 8:59:32 AM ||
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NPR this AM reports on the 9/11 commitee's report that 9/11 hijackers traveled through Iran (on their way from Afghan to KSA), but with no Iranian marks on their passports. NPR of course spins this as "see Iran more implicated than Iraq - nanana" but it strikes me as the beginning of open discussion about Iran support for AQ. Will we see more?
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/19/2004 9:36 Comments ||
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LH-The local news put the same spin on this report as NPR. "Haha, see we missed the bad guys by one country. How is this going to play, blah, blah" (/paraphrase). It appears the partisan media has received the talking points. If thought at all like me they would say: "And the reports seem to indicate that Iran is next."
'My fellow Americans. Our esteemed media has pointed out that invading Iraq was a mistake. They tell us that Iran has solid ties to Al Qaeda. I'm sad to say, they are right. So, since they are obviously right and to make it up to you, I've ordered our forces currently in Iraq to withdraw from Iraq immediately and to invade Iran. God bless America.'
Then when they bitch and moan about that he could say, 'but the media told me to do it.'
An Iranian general collaborated with al Qaeda to arrange the transit through Iran of nine of the September 11 hijackers, the Arabic newspaper Asharq al-Awsat reported on Monday. "A general in the apparatus (Revolutionary Guard) coordinated with the number two man in al Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahri, to provide 'safe passage' to around nine of those who carried out the attacks," the London-based paper said. It cited as its source an official in the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, and said Zawahri, who requested the help, had links with the general going back to the early 1990s. Iranian government spokesman Abdollah Ramazanzadeh challenged the newspaper to back up its story. "If they have concrete proof they should hand it over to the United Nations, and if they really trust their sources they should let us know too," he told a weekly news conference when asked about the report.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/19/2004 8:54:38 AM ||
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"If they have concrete proof they should hand it over to the United Nations,..
Where it will be debated and debated and debated, the end result being that little or nothing will come of it.
#2
"If they have concrete proof they should hand it over to the United Nations, and if they really trust their sources they should let us know too," Please, hand over your sources to our most merciful security investigating apparatus. We hope they are female journalists - they are the most fun for us.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 11:55 Comments ||
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TEHRAN, 19 July 2004 — Iran acknowledged yesterday that suspected Al-Qaeda members involved in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks may have passed through its territory, but insisted they would have done so "illegally". Illegally, my ass. The only reason they are admitting now to having them in their territory, is because they now realize that the State Department knows more about their goings than they thought.
"We have very long borders and it is impossible to totally control them," Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi told reporters. "It is natural that five of six people could have crossed our borders illegally without us seeing them," he insisted. "The same thing happens on the border between the United States and Mexico."
Asefi was responding to the Sept. 11 commission report, due out Thursday in the United States, which according to US media reports alleges that Iran may have helped in the attacks by providing eight to 10 Al-Qaeda hijackers with safe passage to and from training camps in Afghanistan.
But John McLaughlin, the acting director of the Central Intelligence Agency, told Fox News yesterday Washington has no evidence that Tehran sanctioned the Sept. 11 strikes. "We have ample evidence of people being able to move back and forth across that terrain," McLaughlin said. "However, I would stop there and say we have no evidence that there is some sort of official sanction by the government of Iran for this activity. We have no evidence that there is some sort of official connection between Iran and 9/11," he said.
Posted by: Anonymous4617 ||
07/19/2004 3:18:09 AM ||
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âHowever, I would stop there and say we have no evidence that there is some sort of official sanction by the government of Iran for this activity. We have no evidence that there is some sort of official connection between Iran and 9/11,â he said.
For those of you looking for signs of blowback from our recent political drubbing of the CIA's ability to interpret intel, here it is. "Sure we know the Iranians let them in, sure we know the border guards were under orders to cooperate and not stamp their passports, sure they had all sorts of assistance in-country from the Iranian government, but that doesn't mean that the Iranian government actually supported them in their plan." I could get a jury conviction on accomplice liability based on the little bit that's made its way into the papers but though they have vastly superior knowledge it appears that the CIA is now effectively paralyzed and/or at least unable to make the call. This bodes ill for any significant US action in the WOT in the near future IMHO.
#2
9/11 Commision Circus, pfeh. 95% crass and craven political grandstanding and TV face-time game. They will tell us nothing that wasn't intuitively obvious to the casual observer, and will likely continue to do truly stupid things, such as recommend replacing Tenet now, in the middle of the most vicious political season in 140 yrs, instead of after the election. Wankers - with mild apologies to the very few who seem to understand what their actual mission was: make America safer.
Cool flag, though, doncha think? Their own fucking flag. Right. Believe that shit? Wonder how much that cost us.
#3
.com, I'm surprised Richard ben Veniste doesn't have his own flag. The Black Banner of the Grand Inquisitor, or something like that.
Posted by: Matt ||
07/19/2004 17:42 Comments ||
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He certainly made his name well known outside the Beltway. How the "commission" members were chosen has to be a trip. "Okay, all the Donks can be asshats - and 50%+ of the Pubs. That'll be fair and insure the report will do some good." Pfeh.
About 2,000-2,500 Christians in Sindh and nearly 5,000 in Punjab have been suffering since 1986 under the Hudood Ordinance, Michael Javed, president of the All Pakistan Minorities Alliance (APMA) and a former member of the Sindh Assembly, told Daily Times on Monday. The police have booked these people on false charges of adultery, kidnapping and violating prohibition, he said. "The Hudood Ordinance, which was promulgated in 1986 during the era of General Ziaul Haq, is a discriminatory law and is badly affecting minorities," he said. "If a minority community woman is raped, she needs the evidence of four Muslim adult males," he said. He said the Christian community, which played an important role in the creation of Pakistan, was condemned to live in constant fear due to discriminatory laws. "Neither can there be a Christian judge in a Shariat Court nor can a Christian lawyer plead a case there," he said.
He claimed the discrimination against Christians could be gauged from the fact that during the colonial era the maximum punishment for blasphemy was 10 years, but now it was life imprisonment or death penalty. He said the Christian community could not even think of blasphemy. He said during 1947-1985 there were only seven cases of blasphemy registered in Pakistan, but today as many as 4,000 people had allegedly been implicated in blasphemy cases in Punjab and 1,200 in Sindh. He said Christians in Punjab had been particularly implicated in blasphemy cases, and in Sindh it were mostly Muslims. "Not a single case of blasphemy has been proved since 1986, but people booked under this law are suffering immensely," he said. He claimed there were incidents when these people were killed even in jails. He was of the view that judges in the lower courts faced undue pressure from the right-wing mullahs and said, "a Lahore High Court judge who acquitted a person involved in blasphemy was murdered a few years ago."
"Pakistan came into being with the contribution of the minorities. Minority leaders including, C Gibbon and S P Singha, who were members of the Punjab assembly, had cast their votes unconditionally in favour of Pakistan in 1946," he said: adding: "There were four votes from the minority community and they were decisive votes." He said Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah was for a secular and democratic Pakistan, but people, he claimed, who succeeded him transformed the country into a theocratic state. "President General Pervez Musharraf has given 33 percent representation to women, but there is not a single women who has been elected on the reserved seats from the minority community," he deplored. He said the minority community had only 10 seats in the National Assembly, which was "totally unjust." He added even people of the Federally-Administrated Tribal Areas had nine seats in the National Assembly and nine in the Senate, although they were fewer in number than the minority community.
EFL, this is one of many reasons I moved.
Law enforcement officials in the Florida Keys are mystified by a bizarre new pastime -- young people dangling themselves from meat hooks on a popular sandbar. Hey, I used to fish there. Nice bonefish, tarpon.
A U.S. Coast Guard spokeswoman said on Sunday that the Monroe County sheriff's office and Coast Guard were called on July 12 to the sandbar off Whale Harbour in Islamorada where locals say wild behaviour is becoming a tradition. WWJBD: What would Jimmy Buffet do?
They found that five young people had erected a bamboo tripod and hung meat hooks from it. A young woman, her feet brushing the surface of the shallow water, dangled from the frame, hooks embedded firmly in her shoulders. Image: Reef shark skimming the flats for bait.
According to a Coast Guard video, she did not seem to mind the hooks. But the shark may be a different story altogether.
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
07/19/2004 10:37:14 AM ||
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Florida huh? No wonder they couldn't master the punchcard ballot! Was one of the kids hanging named 'Chad'? I just want to know.
Posted by: Ol_Dirty_American ||
07/19/2004 8:56:55 AM ||
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"My bad. My bad. Thought I was a Saudi for a minute."
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 16:07 Comments ||
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Hey! Nepotism's all right, as long as you keep it in the family.
Arafat is going to get himself whacked by his own team. They'll still blame Israel and give him a hero's funeral, but Yasser's minutes are counting down.
Egypt and the other big players are looking to carve up the pie. Let us all hope that for one blinding moment the Palestinian people get a chance to see themselves as what they really are ... PAWNS!
EFL - a lot of postings yesterday and the day before on Arafatâs appointment of his cousin as security chief.
Last Update: 19/07/2004 ] 16:51
Arafat annuls appointment of his nephew as security chief
By Arnon Regular and Gideon Alon, Haaretz Correspondents
Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat annulled the appointment of his nephew, Musa Arafat, as security chief on Monday, less than three days after the controversial appointment sparked violent clashes between Fatah militants and PA security forces....
Posted by: mhw ||
07/19/2004 10:05:02 AM ||
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The US has a responsibility to defend the State of Israel, which is "an old friend" and a "democratic country," US President George W. Bush told the French daily Le Figaro in an interview published Saturday. He told the French daily. That will get thier panties in a wad.
Bush's affirmed commitment to Israel came in response to a question about whether successive "US presidents are obliged to defend Israel at every occasion." We are not just obliged. We are morally obligated.
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
07/19/2004 9:57:28 AM ||
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I think it goes deeper than that. Even the founders of the United States recognized that they were the first true "revolutionaries", call it of the "international democratic conspiracy". From the very start, as an example, they printed and distributed copies of the US Constitution to every corner of the planet.
Many US Presidents since have taken this idea to heart, despising kings, dictators and tyrants of all types and openly plotting against them. (You will note the harshness of criticism when we make even a temporary agreement with a lesser evil of a dictator to fight a greater evil dictator.)
It has been a continual pressure eminating from the US through every channel, to persuade and educate the world about democracy.
For this reason, we will do most anything to support most democracies (with a few exceptions, like Prussia), if we can, when they are being oppressed by those whose governments we despise.
#2
It's odd that the Wilsonian FDR types are willing to create Israel which they then abandon for the Palestinians. It then falls to the realists Jacksonian conservatives to perform the janitorial function of dealing with the results of this little project of the bleeding-hearts. I think I coudl win the Nobel Prise for Peace by issuing Play Station II equipment to distract/deter the most immature demographic Americans from involvement in world issues. There is a real element of Peter Pan mentality in some of the soft-core left.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 11:51 Comments ||
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It's that whole pesky, being a man of your word...
but I doubt the French understand such a simplistic concept.
#4
W, just giving me one more reason to vote for him, again! ;)
Posted by: RJB in JC MO ||
07/19/2004 18:46 Comments ||
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"Defending and old friend" is naturally something so alien to the French it just won't register. What an exotic and incomprehensible species this easygoing hegemonic beast from Texas must be in French eyes.
#6
Correction, Anonymous4021, they can keep their word -- to terrorists ... I remember the leftists of France complaining about the allowed extradition of a Red Brigade "bloke" ...
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
07/20/2004 1:20 Comments ||
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Russian President Vladimir Putin today dismissed several top military and security officers. Russian news agencies say Putin dismissed General Anatolii Kvashnin as military chief of staff and General Vyachelsav Tikhomirov, the head of Interior Ministry forces. The reports say he also sacked Anatolii Yezhov, deputy director of the Federal Security Service (FSB), who was responsible for the North Caucasus region, and Mikhail Labunets, commander of the North Caucasus military district.
Another Yezhovshchina?
The Russian military, Interior Ministry, and FSB all are involved in Russiaâs campaign against separatist rebels in Chechnya. There was no immediate explanation for the dismissals. They came after last monthâs coordinated attack by militants on police facilities in Ingushetia, which borders Chechnya, that left 90 people dead.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/19/2004 9:20:13 AM ||
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Maybe this is an opportunity for Tommy Franks to rake in some consultation rubles.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 9:39 Comments ||
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Bulganin once said, "you come to Stalin's table as a friend, but you never know if youâll go home by yourself or if youâll be given a ride--to prison.â
Posted by: Super Hose ||
07/19/2004 16:12 Comments ||
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I'm with you, someone - this gives me great pause...
Fred? You're definitely a Kremlinologist, and almost (not quite) a fan of Putty, IIRC -- got any insights to offer on this or more generally regards where things are headed?
A group of thugs, wielding offensive implements and calling themselves 'al-Qaeda', on Saturday stormed the Okaikoi North Constituency office of the NPP and attacked the executives. The bloody attack, allegedly led by Mr. Dickson Yaw Adjei Amankwaa, an aspiring parliamentary candidate, left Mr. John Owusu Afriyie, the constituency chairman with a badly damaged eye and the constituency Youth Organiser, Abudulai Banda with bruises on his body, The Chronicle gathered.
Amankwah, who is the Special Assistant to the Accra Metropolitan Chief Executive, reportedly stormed the party offices with an AMA vehicle with registration Number GT 7961P in which his group sped away after the incident. The victims, Mr. Afriyie and Mr. Banda were taken to the Tesano Police station where they lodged complaint. They were issued with police medical forms for treatment at Achimota hospital. They were discharged later in the day. No arrest was made but the Police were said to be searching for Amankwah and the "al-Qaeda" boys.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/19/2004 8:43:12 AM ||
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buncha local thugs, playing a local thuggish game, decide to call themselves AQ. Wannabes. Like some guy who shoplifts says hes the Communist Party, or whatever.
#2
All these are Akan/asante names and less likely to be muslim. In Ghana, the muslims are mostly northeners. This is not the real Al Q but a wannabe thinking the game is cool...maybe its a setup to get Afrijie some pub.
Former Afghan president Burhanuddin Rabbani on Monday criticised the postponement of a parliamentary election until April, saying it was against the spirit of the constitution and nurtured public mistrust. Afghanistan had planned to hold presidential and parliamentary elections in June, but logistical problems, attacks by Taliban militants and the slow pace of disarming factional militias forced delays. The presidential election, which President Hamid Karzai is widely expected to contest and win, is to take place on October 9 with the parliamentary one scheduled for April. "This (the delay) will create an atmosphere of mistrust and further deepen it, and I think this will not work for the benefit of strengthening law or stability," the silver-bearded Rabbani, 66, told Reuters at his Kabul residence.
Afghanistan's new constitution, adopted in January, called for every effort to be made to hold the two elections together. Rabbani said the decision to delay parliamentary polls until spring could harm Karzai's prospects in the October vote, with disgruntled parliamentary candidates likely to lobby against him. "Parliamentary candidates will try to discourage people from voting for the presidential candidate because of the postponement," Rabbani said. "So this will not benefit Karzai either," added the former Kabul University theology lecturer. Rabbani heads the Jamiat-e-Islami faction made up of leaders of the "mujahideen", or "holy warriors", who ousted the Soviets in the 1980s and then fought against the hardline Islamic Taliban regime after it took power in 1996. Many senior members command private militias who flout central authority in the north and west. Analysts say a nationwide drive to disarm them could weaken figures like Rabbani, who they suspect could resort to force to coerce voters.
Karzai has said that factional forces are a greater risk to stability than Islamic militants like the Taliban, who oppose his government and the elections and have killed hundreds of people in a wave of attacks in the last year. Karzai's comments came two months after he had held talks with factional leaders including Rabbani during which mujahideen heavyweights said the president had agreed to share power in his government in return for their support for his candidacy. Rabbani said on Monday that the timing of parliamentary polls, which his Jamiat faction will contest, was tantamount to a reversal by Karzai of the agreement. He also argued that Taliban militants would have a greater opportunity to sabotage the elections if they were delayed.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/19/2004 8:40:00 AM ||
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SUKKUR: Salim Mazari's house raided
By Our Correspondent
SUKKUR, July 16: Kashmor police raided the house of former provincial minister Saleem Jan Mazari and arrested four persons including Ghulam Mustufa Domki, Noor Khan Mazari, Rind Ali Leghari and Mir Ali Murad Domki.
Cause of the raid and allegation on the arrested persons could not be known immediately. Meanwhile, one more person Wazir Ali Umrani, a close political ally of Saleem Jan Mazari, was also arrested. It is, however, learnt that these arrests were made in connection with recovery of six-year-old Naveen Kumar, who was kidnapped from Kashmor.
According to police, the outlaws were being provided shelter by the influential landlords of the area and police were building pressure on these landlords for the release of all the hostages who were kidnapped by the dacoits during the last one and a half month.
Brig. Tariq Sher, in charge monitoring cell, Larkana Division, directed DIG Larkana Fayyaz Leghari to ensure safe recovery of Naveen Kumar and asked him to arrest the landlords who were harbouring the dacoits irrespective of their influence and political affiliations.
Due to the pressure of monitoring cell in Larkana Division eleven persons including six from Jacobabad were released by the dacoits.
Those released included Mumtaz Ali, Bashir Ahmed, Anwar Ali and Soomar Mal who were kidnapped from Kashmor some one month ago, while Imran son of Mir Muhammad Mirani, Manzoor Ahmed son of Dildar Mirani, Shahnawaz son of Lal Bux Mirani, who were kidnapped from Ghauspur reached their homes safely.
The police said that they have not paid any ransom and gave an assurance to the Army officials that Naveen Kumar would also be recovered soon.
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17 tribesmen arrested for casting bogus votes
KUNDHKOT : Police detained 17 men belonging to Chatti and Mazari tribes for casting bogus votes, on the orders of Returning Officer for NA-210 on polling day.
As per details, the returning officer for NA-210, exercising his powers as Magistrate, caught 17 persons red-handed, trying to cast bogus votes in favor of Saleem Jan Mazari at a polling station in Government high schools and send them jail for ten days.
Jordan's King Abdullah says he hopes Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia does not resign. Speaking on CNN's Late Edition, Jordan's King Abdullah said he thinks Prime Minister Qureia's resignation could hurt efforts toward a lasting Israeli-Palestinian peace. "If the old fart Abu Ala pushes up daisies gives up on Monday, as is a possibility, then this will be a serious blow to all of us that are trying to push the process forward," said King Abdullah. "And, I think, will reflect very negatively on President Arafat himself."
Jordan's King Abdullah decried the recent violence in Gaza, saying it underscores the need to strengthen Palestinian security and government institutions. "And I think, maybe, what's happening in Gaza, as maybe a street reaction, will hopefully be a wake-up call to many of those in Palestinian institutions of government, that they need to address these problems, and address them now," he emphasized.
"And don't try to push it off on me!"
King Abdullah said his country is closely watching Egypt's efforts to help restore security to Gaza. "Depending on how successful that is, then, there may be a discussion on what Jordan can provide in helping provide training to Palestinian security forces," King Abdullah added. Under the auspices of the United Nations, Jordan helped train Palestinian policemen from the West Bank in the early 1990's.
Meanwhile, King Abdullah said, he thinks a new national unity government under negotiation in Israel could potentially have a positive effect on the international peace plan for the Middle East, known as the Road Map. "If the formation of a new [Israeli] government allows more interaction between the Israelis and the Palestinians, and the rest of us in the international community, to move the Road Map along, obviously, that would be a positive thing," he said. "But we have to wait and see, and keep our fingers crossed."
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/19/2004 12:53:46 AM ||
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King Abdullah needs to get his head out of the sand. As long as Arafart is still in charge, it doesn't matter WHO is in the PM's office. The only hope the Paleos have is if Arafart is forcibly removed from office (killed, preferably).
#3
Yeah, what Lucky said (what does Yasshole have on the other Arabs that they don't off him themselves?) What, you mean they don't really care about their Paleo cousins and love it when Joooooos are killed? No shit.
#4
Ok, folks. Its far better that Arafat NOT die in office, especially not from violence. Dont need to turn the corrupt, cynical old manipulator into a martyr to the cause of arab nationalism.
Best possible outcome - Arafat walking the streets of Paris, arm in arm with Suha, shopping in all the finest boutiques. Put posters of THAT in every refugee camp, in every Gaza slum, in every Lebanese hellhole. THAT would put the stake through the heart of the Arafat myth, and might help clear the ground for a rational Pal politics.
As for Abdullah of Jordan, hes doing just what he should be doing, IMO.
Jordan's King Abdullah says he would not favor dispatching troops from his country to help bolster security in Iraq. King Abdullah says the international community, including his own country, must be unwavering in its support of stability and security in Iraq. But he questioned the wisdom of having Iraq's neighbors, including Jordan, send troops to Iraq. "I do not think that Jordan is the right country [to send troops to Iraq], not any of the countries that surround Iraq, because I believe that we cannot work with transparency. We would all have personal agendas."
Whoa! That twitched the surprise meter. I'm amazed he said that publicly.
"Therefore, I do not think that we are the right people, morally, to commit to Iraqi security. But at the same time, this Iraq government needs 110 percent support from all of us in the international community. If the Iraq government was to ask us for support, it would be difficult for us to say no," said King Abdullah. The king was quick to add that he did not believe such a request from Iraq is likely. No Arab nations have sent troops to join the multi-national coalition military force in Iraq.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/19/2004 12:49:15 AM ||
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"I am answering a question which will not be asked." Lol! F**kin Duh, there dood. And what do you know, I finally agree with "King" Abdullah - heart flutter. Yo, "kingy", you've got plenty of shit to clean up in your own cesspool, get busy. And don't call us or the press or anyone else, you're not the player you think and your plate is already full.
#6
Lucky, Abdy is having an existential crisis trying to figure out if he will have his country come down on our side 100% or with the terrorists or how long he can stall by not making a decision at all.
Of course, there's the attendant problem of hanging on to his own power--How do you support democracy and secularism in Iraq while Jordan is still an Islamic oligarchy of the Hashemites?
(And how long before the Paleostinians burn down everything in the West Bank and start heading his way to their real homes?)
Schadenfreude is under-rated!
Posted by: Jen ||
07/19/2004 3:10 Comments ||
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But as far as the Oil goes, I think Jordan is doing a careful balancing act. And yes, the admission is very pragmatic in insight and function. Abdullah knows that if he sent troops into Iraq his apparent motive would be closely associated with the other Arab States' view of America's, namely it's all about the oil. (Truth doesn't matter, it's the assertion that suffices.)
Jordan has historically been a poor country. No access to oil, save Iraq. Modern wealth has mostly come about as a result of the peace with Israel, and balancing between the interests of various ME parties. As I've noted under my previous nic, there are nearly more Paleosimians in Jordan than Jordanese. Any action in Iraq would likely cause incredible unrest at home. Abdullah was a commando and saw action against Islamic militants at home before gaining power, he seems to be something of a strategist as well.
#9
Abdullah is possibly engaging in a little CYA here. The Jordanian government earlier hinted that they might be willing to send troops to Iraq after the handover, but the interim Iraqi government has repeatedly made it clear - I think they've got their foreign minister going around to the self-same neighboring states right now - that they do _not_ want troops from states bordering on Iraq in Iraq, though they're willing to entertain contingents from Arab and Muslim countries further afield.
Posted by: Joe ||
07/19/2004 5:15 Comments ||
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Jordan's personal agenda is two fold. One is to engage Arab support to balance the still large numbers of Paleos in Jordan.
The second is the restore the family's honor by returning a family member to the throne of Iraq.
#11
I dont' know about your second point Chuck, but I do know Jordan is scared shitless about Al Qaeda and is trying to take a "don't bother us and we won't bother you" Saudi approach.
#12
1. I think Joe is right about Abd doing CYA
2. Chucks point one is definitely right - how do you survive in a Mid East that must become more democratic, when 60% of your pop is Pal origin, and theres chaos about to open up in Gaza and the West Bank? How do you support stability in those places without A. Looking like your supporting Israel or B. Commiting to keeping order there yourself
3. Chucks second point - ive seen that around the blogosphere. May be the case, but if so I think Abdullah will pursue it very cautiously
4. Report this AM that Jordanian troops killed three terrs trying to cross into Israel. Jordan govt is against not only AQ, but against anti-Israel terrorism as well. But they have to balance carefully.
#8
#6Dan, innocents in crossfire, other than that I got nothing.
Anonymous5858, I used to have a problem with that too. Then I read about how 85% of the Palestinian people support Hamas and changed my mind. Few aspiring nations have less to recommend their prospective statehood to the remaining world than Palestine.
Iraq's soccer team played in a major competition for the first time since the Iraq war started last year, losing 1-0 to favored Uzbekistan at the Asian Cup in China. Mirdjalal Kasimov scored the lone goal Sunday to give Uzbekistan the victory over Iraq, netting a free kick in the 22nd minute to put his squad atop Group-C.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/19/2004 12:44:02 AM ||
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It is necessary to show the world media some good news other than the daily slaughter of Iraqi children by US planes !
Posted by: Rick ||
07/19/2004 3:42 Comments ||
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That was never a free kick.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/19/2004 4:39 Comments ||
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Jordan's King Abdullah yesterday described Jordanian extremist Abu Mussab Al Zarqawi as a "street thug" who, despite being the "most wanted" man in Iraq for his suspected role in attacks there, is not as smart and threatening as he has been depicted. "It's a long history, but he was basically involved in criminal gangs," Abdullah told CNN's Late Edition when asked how Zarqawi ended up in Iraq. "He was basically a street thug. That's probably the best way I can describe it," he said.
Zarqawi spent around eight years in jail in Jordan before being released under a royal amnesty in 1999. He had been sentenced to 15 years of hard labour in a case involving membership of an Islamist group. Zarqawi made his way to Afghanistan to fight with the Mujahideen before heading to Iraq, Abdullah said. "You say that he's the most wanted man in Iraq. I think that the press made him much more capable than actually he really is," Abdullah told CNN.
Jordan, the king said, is working with the international community to hunt him down, "and hopefully the net is closing in on him." The US-led coalition blames Zarqawi for at least 25 attacks in Iraq. There is a $25 million bounty on Zarqawi's head.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/19/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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ummm. ima think he graduate past street thug now.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
