Afghan militants are planning to launch deadly attacks on civilians in Europe in revenge for the 2001 invasion by United States-led forces, a Taliban commander said on Sky News television Monday. Mullah Mohammed Amin said resurgent militants had built up stockpiles of weapons and were bent on vengeance against Āthe foreign invadersĀ. The Taliban, overthrown by the invasion, now wanted to export terror to the West, he said.
ĀItĀs acceptable to kill ordinary people in Europe because these are the people who have voted in the government,Ā he said. ĀThey came to our home and attacked our women and children,Ā he added. ĀThe ordinary people of these countries are behind this Ā so we will not spare them. We will kill them and laugh over them like they are killing us and laughing at us.Ā
Amin said the Taliban were inspired by tactics used by insurgents in Iraq, namely remote-controlled bombs, land mines and suicide bombers. ĀThey are our best tactic,Ā he said. Fighters were sheltering in Pakistan and being aided by sympathetic locals, he said in an interview with the British TV channel in the Pakistani border region.
NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said Thursday that suicide bomber tactics proved that Taliban rebels could not defeat multinational forces through conventional warfare. ĀThe Taliban and the other spoilers of the process of nation-building and democracy in Afghanistan are having to go with these kinds of horrible tactics Ā improvised explosive devices, suicide bombers and so on Ā because they know they cannot beat NATO in other ways,Ā he told BBC radio.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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I remember not long ago that the NATO call went out for more troops from EUROland, and no one answered (except for the admirable Poles).
Posted by: Captain America ||
10/24/2006 0:32 Comments ||
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#2
Fight them over there or fight them at home. Europe may have to live with the result of their choice -- if this really is more than big talk.
#4
I don't know why we continue to do business with the French. The French elites have been obstructionist and anti-American since WWI. They have nothing to offer but grief and frustration. Isolate them and let them sink. Place our bets on the East European countries that, if they can get past the corruption, actually advance our interests. Besides, both California and Australian wines are better than the French, Italian and Spanish wines anyway.
As many as 14,000 Somalis have crossed into neighboring Kenya since September, according to United Nations estimates. That brings the total for the year to 34,000, the biggest influx since the early 1990s, when the collapse of Mohammed Siad Barre's dictatorship opened a decade and a half of anarchy that made the Horn of Africa country the world's best-known failed state.
ĀLast week, a 3-year-old Somali girl in the camps was diagnosed with polio...Ā
The new arrivals now huddle alongside 130,000 other Somalis in refugee camps that sprawl across the sandy scrubland of eastern Kenya. Thousands more are expected to arrive in the coming weeks, and aid agencies are concerned about high rates of malnutrition and the threat of diseases from over the border, where there's no functioning health-care system.
Last week, a 3-year-old Somali girl in the camps was diagnosed with polio, the first case of the crippling disease in Kenya in more than two decades. The U.N. has appealed for $35 million in emergency aid to handle the influx.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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THE United States has condemned the Sudanese GovernmentĀs decision to expel the head of the United Nations mission to the country and said that international action was needed to contain the worsening conflict. Condoleezza Rice, the Secretary of State, described as Āunfortunate in the extremeĀ the move to order Jan Pronk, the Dutch head, to leave.
The Sudanese Government said that it had expelled him for saying that its army had recently suffered defeats against rebels in Darfur. Khartoum, which was already at loggerheads with the international community over moves to send a 22,000-strong UN force to Darfur, was infuriated by comments made by Mr Pronk on his blog, janpronk.nl. A Āsomewhat bemusedĀ Mr Pronk has been recalled to New York for talks with Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary-General, and will not return to Sudan.
The decision to order Mr Pronk out of the country raises the stakes sharply in the long-running dispute with the world body over the crisis in the vast western province, where an estimated 200,000 have died and more than two million have been driven from their homes in 3Å years of government-supported mayhem.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Hello? Is anyone home? Oh, I didn't think so
Posted by: Captain America ||
10/24/2006 0:34 Comments ||
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Yup, yup.....
Just more Black Christian Children laying face down in the sand.
If I go to Sudan, I will bring an AK-47 and show the world how to deal with that government - after ALL of them are dead.
I AM putting a hit on you there in Sudan. This is the most disgraceful thing on this planet at THIS TIME.
The last time, it was easier to throw the hands up and drown the whole world.
This time will be a good time to take specific advantage of targeting the evil.
I will not forgive what you have done in Sudan - YOU MUSLIMS.
Muslims are what currently destroy Africa. And muslims will not be around at all in a few decades.
#5
While the M-16 is a superior weapon, I suspect that AK-47 ammo and parts will be easier for the locals to obtain. Local familiarity is a plus for arming locals.
IIRC, that's why we let the Iraquis keep the AK-47s when they re-created the IA.
NS, wrt the M24 link, it was obvious it was written by a non-shooter who was (mis)quoting from several sources.
The description of the 1:24 rifiling twist made me think of some "water goat" (from hydraulic ram!-ed.) translations of technical publications that I have encountered in the past.
Posted by: N guard ||
10/24/2006 10:05 Comments ||
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#7
Unless there were a political consensus to allow the military to exterminate the janjaweed militia and to take down the Muslim government hard, we should stay far away. Unless you are willing to take sides in what is, for all intents and purposes, a war, then you are just putting American troops in harm's way for domestic feel-good politics.
#8
M-16's are overly fragile pieces of junk. The .223 round is great for varmint shooting, but a miserable choice for killing enemy combatants. Almost anything in .308 Win/NATO is dramatically better.
The .50 is great for taking out vehicles and the odd sniper shot against "soft targerts" at long range, but you would not want to shoot it too many times. It's a bitch.
Closedanger, I doubt that you've ever shot a Red Rider BB gun, let alone something that makes noise. Weiner.
Muslim protesters threw stones at a prison van carrying four men accused of distributing anti-Islamic literature to court Monday, and riot police fired into the air to break up the demonstration.
ĀThe four are accused of handing out a pamphlet that questioned the legitimacy of Islam and using words that would injure the feelings of Muslims.Ā
About 200 people packed into the courtroom, but there was no attempt inside to disrupt the trial of US citizens Andrew Saucier and Paul Garcia and Kenyans Michael Otanga and Patrick Ngei. The four are accused of handing out a pamphlet that questioned the legitimacy of Islam and using words that would injure the feelings of Muslims. They face fines if convicted. The trial was to continue Wednesday.
A day after the pamphlets were distributed outside a primary school on Oct. 17, Muslims demonstrated outside the Baptist church where the missionaries are based.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
I wasn't aware that Kenya is a Muslim country. Shows my ignorance, I guess.
#6
The four men are US nationals Andrew Saucier and Paul Garcia, and Kenyans Michael Mullei and Patrick Mutinda. Mr. Mullie and Mutinda are Christian converts who were evangelized through the ministry of the Calvary Baptist Church in Ngong. The 'pamphlets' are simply Evangelical tracts, the same kind that are often handed out by Christian missionaries all over the world. One of the tracts is entitled "Allah had no son". You can read it here.
Missionary work is becoming increasingly more dangerous throughout the world, and particularly in countries with more than a few muslims. Meanwhile, muslims in Kenya are free to spout the most vile and vicious lies about Christians that you can imagine, as well as flooding the entire country with anti-christian literature. Yet, not one Christian stands outside a mosque and protests. That's because the Christian God is big enough and powerful enough to deal with people himself. Apparently this Allah is such a weak and castrated god that he needs puny man to defend him at the smallest percieved slight. Muslims, if your god is really God, why can't he fight his own battles for a change?
(SomaliNet) Senior officials of Islamic Courts on Monday visited former Radio Mogadishu station inside the building of ex- information ministry in the capital of Somalia shortly after todayĀs Eid prayer, announcing the opening and Islamist run Radio. The Islamic Courts renamed the station into ĀRadio Mogadishu voice of Somali nationĀ and confirmed it will serve for Somali people under the authority of Islamists in a ceremony held inside the compound near former presidential palace ĀVilla SomaliaĀ that is now base for Islamic Courts. The radio station, which received no renovation for the last 15 years, had been run by supporters of Hussein Mohamed Aideed, the minister of interior in the transitional federal government.
"All turban, all the time!"
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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Maybe they could team up with Air Anti-America and cross-license their product. A lot of it's probably the same, anyway.
Why is it since Al Qaeda hates the west and everything about, do they insist on using western technology. You'd think they'd have some splain' to do to their followers.
It's a little like a pothead showing up for a TV show obviously stoned telling others about the evil of pot.
In what has been labeled by some a ĀbreakthroughĀ in Middle East political relations, Qatar on Tuesday extended an invitation to IsraelĀs Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni to visit the Arab nation for the first time. [...]
Last year, relations between the two countries began to show signs of warming when the foreign minister at the time, Silvan Shalom, met with Qatari Foreign Minister Sheikh Hamad bin Jasam al-Thani, in New York at the United Nations headquarters.
Qatar at the time revealed that it was contemplating establishing open diplomatic relations with Israel.
#1
Yeah, its very nice that qatar is acting sane and trying to mediate. Good for Qatar, good for Israel.
But I doubt very much that Qatar has any real sway over Hamas, so it doesnt do much at all to solve that. Either Hamas has to be crushed by force, or it has to be delivered by Damascus, in a "grand deal".
#3
Qatar is where the US Air Force went after we left Saudi Arabia. The Emir had an air force base built to the top NATO survivability standards, with enough hardened aircraft bunkers for at least 100 aircraft. The Qatari air force is very small, like 20 total aircraft.
We moved in, lock, stock, and barrel, and then left Saudi Arabia.
The Emir is looking for backdoor deals with the Israelis, and is using Hamas as his bitch to do so. He is pimping the situation with Hamas to provide cover for his in-depth negotiations with the Israelis on weapons, equipment, and counter-terrorism training.
(KUNA) -- British police were appealing for calm Monday after four men were beaten up in a mosque. Two men were arrested on suspicion of racial assault after police were called to the Eccles Mosque, in Salford, Greater Manchester, northern England, last night following a report of an attack inside the building, police said. One man was taken to hospital but has since been discharged. The other three men were only slightly hurt and did not need hospital treatment.
A 37-year-old man from Eccles and a 19-year-old man from Davyhulme, northern England, were arrested on suspicion of racially aggravated assault. Chief Inspector Geoffrey Wessell said "Greater Manchester Police take crimes of this nature extremely seriously and a thorough investigation is currently under way." He added "I would appeal to members of the local community in and around Eccles to remain calm, behave responsibly and let police deal with the incident and those responsible for it" MP Phil Woolas, the British Government's race minister, said "Any such attacks are appalling."
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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I predict more of this to come as the so called Muslim moderates do not stand up to the extremist in their Communities.Personally i think they secretly support them/share their views.
The eldest son has a yen to see Disneyland. A second son rocks to the riffs of Eric Clapton. A third is said to be the spitting image of his father. No one knows whether one of North Korean leader Kim Jong Il's sons will take the reins of power one day, but the succession issue has gained currency as North Korea enters a new era as a nuclear-armed state.
At 64, Kim has just surpassed the age at which his father, Kim Il Sung, picked him as the next leader in the first dynastic Marxist-Leninist succession in the world. Now, as Kim's bouffant coif makes him instantly recognizable around the globe, the hair is apparent but the heir is hidden. Some Korea watchers say it's because Kim frets over diluting his power. "If you announce a successor, you immediately create a second source of power for people who aren't satisfied with how things are going," said Jasper Becker, the author of "Rogue Regime: Kim Jong Il and the Looming Threat of North Korea," a book published last year.
Experts on North Korea differ over how and when Kim might pick a successor. "The third generation remains a question mark," said Sohn Kwang-joo, a former South Korean intelligence analyst who wrote a book about the Kim family and now heads the Daily NK, an Internet site. "It is certain he will try to pass on rule to one of his sons. Whether he succeeds or not does not depend on him but other factors."
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Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Now, now, I just I know I read someplace(s) that COMMUNISM + SOCIALISM was about Democracy, Justice, Equality and the "Rights of the People/Masses", NOT "succession" let alone "DYNASTIC SUCCESSION"??? RUS KIMBAUGH > its a terrible burden, just terrible D *** YOU, for Castro to have to routinely import and eat expensive hams while being forced by the decadent imperialist warmongering capitalist West to watch his people + Army starve.
#4
Joe communism has never been its theory rather raw power. The best way to describe communism from a cadre point of view is: What's mine is mine!
What's your's is mine!
#5
Communism is a system that works. For proof watch any episode of The Smurfs. It's only when the evil capitalist Gargamel came into their village (to kidnap them and turn them into gold for profit) did the Smurfs have any reason to fear anything.
Posted by: Papa Smurf ||
10/24/2006 2:11 Comments ||
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#6
Apparently, communism is also the best way to achieve gender equality, if the total invisibility of Kimmie's daughter is any indication. Just who decided Smurfette couldn't be a perfectly capable iron-fisted tyrant?
#12
There's gotta be a way to exploit this. Maybe someone can bump Kim Jong Nam off, and "leak" incriminating evidence to Daddy that Kim Jong Un offed his brother and is looking to bump off his Dad next. After Kim Jong Un meets with the inevitable "unfortunate accident," plant a rumor that Kim Jong Chol is preparing a coup, with Chinese assistance, now that his rival brothers are out of the way. Plant a counter-rumor that Dad is about to snuff Kim Jong Chol and the head of the secret police and transfer power to the daughter. Pop popcorn. Watch the fun.
Of course, that assumes a competent CIA, which we probably do not have.
On the other hand, . . . 'Spook, you know anybody that knows anybody that knows people in Korea?
Posted by: Mike ||
10/24/2006 16:37 Comments ||
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Just who decided Smurfette couldn't be a perfectly capable iron-fisted tyrant?
The White House fired back Monday at critics of its North Korean policy, saying direct talks with the North, which many are urging, would weaken efforts to confront the reclusive country's nuclear ambitions. J.D. Crouch, the White House's deputy national security adviser, also rejected claims that the North's explosion of a nuclear device on Oct. 9 represented a foreign policy failure for the administration President George W. Bush.
The United States and its allies, he said, are not responsible "for the decisions that are made in Pyongyang. They are. How we will be measured is by how we react to that, how we hold together, or whether we are seen as breaking apart as a result of this." Crouch said allowing separate talks between the United States and North Korea would eliminate crucial input from the other members of the so-called "six-party talks" - South Korea, Japan, China and Russia.
The North's nuclear program, Crouch told a gathering at the Center for Strategic and International Studies think tank, threatens "not just the United States but also the entire world. Other nations with influence in the region should be at the negotiating table."
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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How about 2-party talks? US and PRC. When you come right down to it, they are by far the biggest players in this opera.
#2
Sorry, but I doubt the Chicoms = Commies won't agree to it becuz one, the decades-old, geo-potemkinist ideo facade that Communists + Leftists are NOT imperialists; second, the facade of the NorComs that they fought against any and all forms of European andor External rule and influnce, i.e. KOREA FOR KOREANS ONLY; and third, by all accounts China has not forsaken its ambitions for Chinese- + Commie-centric Asia-Pacific hegemony. China needs the NORKORS to PC threaten other Asian nations + West so that China can have PDeniability, i.e. "save face". China is still weak or vulnerable in comparison to several of its regional competitors espec JAPAN + including SCO. China, like Mikhail Gorbachev, wants MODERNIZATION BUT UNDER COMMUNISM-SOCIALISM, and hence needs to work in the shadows, i.e. subtlely or covertly for the most part. This is why China will do little or nuthin to stop Kimmie unless Chinese control of North Korea is being directly = overtly threatened + Kimmie or successor directs Norkie fury at any other regional-world state except China. North Korea is viewed by many credentialed pundits-analysts as already being a nuclear power long before the recent nuke tests, JUST THAT IT DOES NOT CONTROL ITS NUCLEAR WEAPONS NOR ITS OWN ARMY - CHINA DOES. IN HYPER-CORRECT, DIALECTIC CHICOM/COMMIE SPEAK, NORTH KOREA = KOREAS IS OFFICIALLY [ before the World] SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT, BUT IN REALITY IS JUST A NON/UN-ANNEXED CHINESE PROVINCE(S). Even the latter is changing as both Koreas are complaining about Chinese books + maps which depicts the Koreas as geographically or ethnically part of mainland China. ITS GETTING HARDER AND HARDER FOR THE NOKORCOMS TO SAY OR PROVE THEY ARE NOT CHINESE = CHINESE-CONTROLLED! OOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPSSSIES, how does Kimmie Spears keep getting herself = himself = itself? into these thingys.
#9
If I understand Joe's (rather impressive) analysis correctly, the Chinese are engaged in Gorbachev-like capitalism under communism, but need the Norks to act as their proxy in order to keep their hand in the Asian hegemony game. The Norks stay alive this way, but the Koreans as a whole are starting to suspect that the Chinese are marking them for absorption at some later point. (Joe, how'd I do?)
I used to be confused by Joe but his writing is getting more and more incisive, particularly with respect to the Chinese. If only he'd leave off the weird capitalizations...
Posted by: Jonathan ||
10/24/2006 10:10 Comments ||
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#10
I think Joe sends the local keyboard retailer's kids to college.
#11
I'm impressed the White House is finally publicly defending its policies and defusing some of the criticism. President Bush cannot be blamed for a foreign policy failure if the rest of the world, including China, oppose Kim's ambitions to unilaterally hold the world hostage to nuclear blackmail.
In an address to the 5th Congress of European Defense, which is currently underway in Berlin, German Defense Minister Franz Josef Jung said the difference between internal and external security was now so fluid that both elements had to be better "interlocked."
"The German armed forces must be deployed for domestic missions in cases where it is the only body with necessary capabilities," Jung said according to an advance text of his speech.
Germany has strict constitutional limits for deploying its armed forces on domestic missions -- a reaction to massive abuses under the Nazi Third Reich -- and Jung's plans could require a change to the constitution.
A strategy for the future
Minister Franz Josef JungBildunterschrift: GroĆansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Jung called for the interlocking of internal and external secuirty
Germany's government is due on Wednesday to approve a new white paper on the future of the Bundeswehr, the country's combined armed forces.
There are presently 247,000 troops in the Bundeswehr and about 10,000 are serving on missions in Afghanistan, Lebanon and the Balkans.
Jung underlined that Chancellor Angela Merkel's government viewed the transatlantic alliance with the United States and NATO at its central security pillar.
"A close and trusting relationship to the US is of paramount importance for Germany's security in the 21st century," Jung said.
Merkel, who came to power with a grand coalition government a year ago, has made strong efforts to improve ties with the United States, ties which were damaged by bitter battles between former chancellor Gerhard Schrƶder and US President George W. Bush over the Iraq war.
Staying on NATO's friendly side
The US and EU flags flying in separate directions at the European Council building in BrusselsBildunterschrift: GroĆansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Germany is an advocate of closer relations between the EU and the USA
While also calling for European Union capabilities to be built up in the security sphere, Jung stressed that the EU and NATO must not be allowed to enter into any kind of competition.
He said forging better strategic ties between the US and the EU would be on the agenda for Germany's EU presidency during the first half of 2007.
"The German government is going to make efforts to improve relations between both organizations," Jung said.
#1
He's right on target. Time to change the flippin' laws now, so the miitary can function internal to German borders when required. He sees the upcoming showdown with the muslim horde. They have lots of them in Germany, "supposedly" peaceful. I still think Germans will hold their own.
#1
You may talk o' gin and beer
When you're quartered safe out 'ere....
Ever notice how all the usual suspects will Monday morning quarterback from 4,000 miles behind the lines. If their grand schemes fail and the Paleos come swarming across the border to slaughter the Jews, why it will be somebody else's fault. Soros and his paid toadies will sit safely in Washington , New York, and Beverly Hills blaming the massacre on George Bush while looking for some other poor souls upon which to inflict their "help."
#4
Not surprising to read that he would back this. He has given interviews that make it clear he detests religious Jews more than anything else, including Republicans.
#9
I believe the technical term for it is "If im so smart why aint I rich - well damn it I AM rich, so ergo, I know everything about everything syndrome"
#11
He has given interviews that make it clear he detests religious Jews more than anything else, including Republicans.
Except that most Jewish Israelis aren't in the least bit religious, despite the picturesque images shown on television. I've seen Mr. Soros quoted as saying that Israel's existence is the cause of antisemitism, which strikes me as argumentative, given that he spent his teen years trying to survive the antisemitism of the Holocaust... and Israel hadn't been yet been invented at that point.
The man doesn't like religious Jews, Israeli Jews, Americans as a group, conservative Christians (no doubt of all nationalities), and anyone who disagrees with his rapine of national currencies and economies. All in all, a total swine.
Some poor countries, such as Mauritania and Haiti, improved their record in a global press freedom index this year, while France, the United States and Japan slipped further down the scale of 168 countries rated, the group Reporters Without Borders said yesterday.
The news media advocacy organization said the most repressive countries in terms of journalistic freedom -- such as North Korea, Cuba, Burma and China -- made no advances at all.
The organization's fifth annual Worldwide Press Freedom Index tracks actions against news media through the end of September. The group noted its concern over the declining rankings of some Western democracies as well as the persistence of other countries in imposing harsh punishments on media that criticize political leaders.
"Unfortunately nothing has changed in the countries that are the worst predators of press freedom, and journalists in North Korea, Eritrea, Turkmenistan, Cuba, Burma and China are still risking their life or imprisonment for trying to keep us informed," the organization said in a news release. North Korea holds the worst ranking at 168.
Iran ranks 162nd, between Saudi Arabia and China. The report said conditions in Russia and Belarus have not improved. It said that Russia continued to steadily dismantle the independent media and that the recent slaying of investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya "is a poor omen for the coming year."
Northern European countries top the index, with no reported censorship, threats, intimidation or physical reprisals, either by officials or the public, in Finland, Ireland, Iceland and the Netherlands. All of those countries were ranked in first place.
Serious threats against the artists and publishers of the Muhammad cartoons, which caricatured the prophet of Islam, caused Denmark, which was also in first place last year, to drop to 19th place. Yemen, at 149th place, slipped four places, mostly because of the arrests of journalists and the closure of newspapers that reprinted the cartoons. Journalists in Algeria, Jordan, Indonesia and India were harassed because of the cartoons as well.
Although it ranked 17th on the first list, published in 2002, the United States now stands at 53, having fallen nine places since last year.
"Relations between the media and the Bush administration sharply deteriorated after the president used the pretext of 'national security' to regard as suspicious any journalist who questioned his 'war on terrorism,' " the group said.
"The zeal of federal courts which, unlike those in 33 U.S. states, refuse to recognize the media's right not to reveal its sources, even threatens journalists whose investigations have no connection at all with terrorism," the group said.
Lucie Morillon, the organization's Washington representative, said the index is based on responses to 50 questions about press freedom asked of journalists, free press organizations, researchers, human rights activists and others.
France, 35th, dropped five places since last year because of searches of media offices and journalists' homes, as well as physical attacks on journalists during a trade union dispute, the group said.
In Lebanon, a series of bomb attacks targeting journalists and publishers in 2005, and Israeli military attacks last summer, contributed to a drop in the country's ranking from 56th to 107th in the past four years. I'm sure there's no bias or slant or outright political "October Surprise" bullshit here. Nope. None. Take it to the bank. Amerikkka, The Gulag. The world should know. Then they'd all stop trying to come here. Just another PSA from WaPo.
#1
"in Finland, Ireland, Iceland and the Netherlands"
I'm sure the beheading of a filmmaker doesn't have to happen every year, or members of Parliament threatened to create a chilling effect. Yeah they are not strictly "press" but the press gets the message and I bet you can count the number of articles that are critical of of Islam on one hand these days.
Meanwhile in the US constant full force Bush-bashing continues and nobody has been arrested for it. State secrets have been given out and nobody has been arrested for it. An entire scandle over nothing (Vallery Plame) was jinned up and nobody has been arrested for it. And yet the US slips because Bush said these things are bad and the press should be responsible?
#2
No shit. While France drops to 35th on reports of searches of media offices and journalists' homes, while the US drops to 53rd.
Can you immagine searches of journalists homes in the US ?
The list is indeed a sham.
#3
Let's see... The NYT exposes a secret government surveillance program of banking data that was helpful and effective in tracking terrorists. CNN just aired a jihadi propaganda video showing snipers gunning down US troops. I could go on and on about the "Rathergate" forged memo, the Reuters news "fauxtography", the Reuters cameraman encouraging rock throwers, etc., etc.
In my opinion, sliding down a few more notches on this list might be a good thing.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/24/2006 13:21 Comments ||
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#4
How about the arrest of a journalist and consfiscation of computers and documents detailing corruption by the organisation which is supposed to fight corruption?
An Ontario judge struck down a section of Canada's Anti-Terrorism, saying it violates freedom of religion in the country's Charter of Rights.
Ontario Superior Court Judge Douglas Rutherford made the decision in the case of a Canadian who is charged with conspiring to carry out bomb attacks in Britain.
Rutherford said the clause in the law that limits the definition of terrorist activity to acts motivated by religion, politics or ideology was unconstitutional.
He severed that clause from the rest of the Anti-Terrorism Act, which he left in place.
His ruling was in response to a constitutional challenge by Momin Khawaja, a Canadian Muslim who was the first person charged under the Anti-Terrorism Act, which became law in 2001 following the September 11 attacks on the United States in 2001.
Khawaja faces seven charges under the act that do not detail religious or ideological motivation but rather such concrete actions as conspiring with others to develop explosives.
Rutherford ruled that those charges should proceed, and rebuffed an argument by Khawaja's lawyer that the Anti-Terrorism Act is too broad and vague.
Khawaja, arrested in 2004, remains in jail and will proceed to trial on January 2.
Seven British Muslims accused of being his co-conspirators are on trial separately in Britain.
One of them, Omar Khyam, told a court in London last month of his delight with the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Centre in New York, and said Pakistanis and Afghans loved the attack's mastermind, Osama bin Laden.
One of the reasons the Canadian legislation had included the section on political, religious or ideological motivation was so that people with other motivation, for example labour union demonstrators, would not be labelled terrorists.
Rutherford said the effect, however, was to unfairly focus investigation on political, religious and ideological beliefs.
#1
So the good judge says the government cannot profile terrorists. This is called an attack?
Sounds like the lawyer was arguing that his client was not a terrorist as the religious grounds in the law comstituted a violation of his Charter rights. So the judge says OK, no religion, but he is still a terrorist.
Lawyer just got slammed by a very smart judge. Bwahahahahahah!
Posted by: john ||
10/24/2006 19:58 Comments ||
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The United States cannot win the global war on terror if U.S. leaders don't understand it -- and Rep. Nancy Pelosi does not understand it, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said on Tuesday.
Hastert -- who holds the job that Pelosi is eager to assume -- was reacting to Pelosi's remarks on the CBS program "60 Minutes." He said her comments should serve as a "bellwether" for the American people.
"Democrat Leader Pelosi would trust the terrorists to give up their objective and play nice in exchange for the United States leaving Iraq. This outlook is foolish, naive and dangerous," Hastert said.
Pelosi told CBS's Leslie Stahl that yes, there are terrorists in Iraq. "But that doesn't mean we stay there. They'll stay there as long as we're there. They're there because we're there," she said.
Hastert said the minority leader is wrong. The global war on terror is just that -- global, he said. "It is not fought in just one country. It is not even fought in one hemisphere."
Hastert said that's why Pelosi's comments are "irresponsible."
"Is the Democrat Minority Leader really turning a blind eye towards the countless number of terrorists that we are fighting in the streets and battlefields of Iraq and also in numerous countries around the world? Does she forget the nearly 3,000 victims of September 11th? The 201 victims of the Madrid train bombings? And the 52 victims of the London bomb attacks? These were all innocent victims of the Global War on Terror. And what about the countless others who have been saved because of our efforts?
Hastert said Pelosi could not be further from reality when she say terrorists are in Iraq only because U.S. troops are there: "If the United States had not brought the fight to foreign soil, terrorists wouldn't disappear -- they would deploy to the United States."
He said that's why President Bush and the Republican-led Congress "have chosen to go on the offensive and take the fight to the terrorists before we have to fight them in American neighborhoods."
Hastest said if Democrats controlled Congress, they would "cut and run from the Global War on Terror, continue to coddle terrorists, create a United States Department of Peace -- and call it a day."
Later on Tuesday, Rep. Henry Hyde (R-Ill.), chairman of the House Committee on International Relations, echoed Hastert's criticism of Pelosi. Terrorists aren't confined to Afghanistan, Hyde said.
"A failure to recognize this could be disastrous to American security."
Hyde said until the fledgling government of Iraq is stable, terrorists will be able to maximize disorder - and their "plots will move forward unimpeded."
"It is only the U.S. presence in Iraq that prevents chaos from taking complete control of that country. A free and stable Iraq will be a major U.S. victory in the war on terror," Hyde said.
CNN restricted an on-air discussion about a new book dealing with the Iraq war because peace activist Cindy Sheehan threatened to sue over provocative claims about her in the book, one of its co-authors claims.
"American Mourning" examines how the death of two U.S. soldiers in Iraq affected their families. One of the two is the Sheehan family.
Co-author Melanie Morgan told Cybercast News Service she was slated to appear on CNN's Headline News' "Glenn Beck" program last week and that a producer told her it would be a short segment, focusing on passing claims in the book regarding Sheehan's personal life.
Morgan said she replied: "OK, fine, whatever," and continued on the promotional tour for the book, which deals with the families of Casey Sheehan of Vacaville, Calif., and Justin Johnson of Rome, Ga., friends who were killed within five days of each other in separate ambushes in Sadr City, Iraq, during April 2004.
While en route to CNN studios to tape the interview, however, Morgan received another call from the producer telling her that the segment would now deal with "everything but the sex issues."
Morgan -- who is president of the conservative organization Move America Forward -- said when she asked about the reason for the last-minute change, the producer told her it was made because of "legal issues."
Morgan and her co-author, journalist Catherine Moy, told Cybercast News Service that they believe they know what "legal issues" CNN was concerned about when they changed the focus of the interview.
One day earlier, peace activist Sheehan said on the nationally syndicated Stephanie Miller radio show that she planned to sue Morgan and Moy "for every nickel they have."
Sheehan stated during the interview that her anger was based on several statements in the book, including a claim that after her son's death, "Cindy had become addicted to online chat rooms of a pornographic nature."
The book also asserts that Sheehan exchanged "hundreds of explicit emails and instant messages" with a married man.
Sheehan in the radio interview called Moy and Morgan "hate-mongers" engaged in "yellow journalism."
"These people are using our tragedy for profit," she charged. "They always accuse me of exploiting Casey's death for profit, and what are they doing?"
The activist dismissed the statements in the book as "third- or fourth-party information" and "hearsay."
"We're gonna see them in court, and I hope they sell a bunch of their crappy books, because I'm gonna sue them for every nickel they have," Sheehan said.
Janine Iamunno, a spokesperson for CNN Headline News, told Cybercast News Service that the hearsay issue was a prominent part of the decision to alter the substance of the interview with Beck.
"I'm not really going to get into what the conversation was between the booker and Melanie," Iamunno said, "but I will tell you that Glenn felt that there were plenty of other issues with Cindy Sheehan to discuss that weren't hearsay, which is what he felt this element of the book was."
However, Kristen Schremp, a publicist for Morgan and Moy, told Cybercast News Service that the authors "thoroughly researched and documented each and every fact in this book. There are over 600 phone records, emails, instant messages and FEC documents that back up these facts."
"We hope for the sake of Ms. Sheehan's loved ones that we are not forced into litigation," Morgan and Moy said Monday. "But, if the documents are subpoenaed, we will have no choice but to act in accordance with the court's requests, therefore making the documents public."
"It's not like this book was written to pick on Cindy Sheehan," Schremp added. "It honestly was not. It was written, more than anything, to let the soldiers -- the people fighting for our country -- know that not everyone feels the same way that Cindy Sheehan does."
The book emphasizes "how wonderful and patriotic both of these boys were," she added. "We talk about their families and their upbringing and all of the things surrounding that, and within that context, we talk about Cindy Sheehan."
Schremp also noted that the book did not ignore aspects of the second family's reaction to the death of their son, including the fact that Justin Johnson's father, Joe, began drinking again after being sober for more than a decade. He later enlisted and was himself deployed to Iraq.
"Everyone's focusing on one page's worth of information in a 221-page book," she stated. "We're more interested in telling the rest of the story."
Repeated attempts by telephone and email since Friday to obtain response from Sheehan regarding this article were unsuccessful by press time.
#3
"These people are using our tragedy for profit," she charged. "They always accuse me of exploiting Casey's death for profit, and what are they doing?"
Unlike Cindy "Laying on His Unmarked Grave" Sheehan.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/24/2006 21:53 Comments ||
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Pakistani militants Mohib and Amir used to cross the porous border from the Waziristan region of northwest Pakistan to neighboring Afghanistan whenever they had the urge to fight U.S.-led forces. But their trips have stopped since Waziristan tribal leaders struck a deal with Pakistani authorities last month barring militants from entering Afghanistan from the semi-autonomous tribal state.
Sitting cross-legged in a bazaar near the Afghan border, the two bearded militants say the arrangement is an inconvenience rather than a barrier to their goals to wage "jihad", or holy war, against U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan. "The border is not just in Waziristan," 25-year-old Mohib, who declined to give his full name, said with a smile as he sat in a market stall in Miranshah, the main town of Pakistan's North Waziristan border region. "If you can't go into Afghanistan from Waziristan, you can go from other areas. There are many, many other ways to go," he told Reuters, stroking his beard with one hand, while holding an AK-47 assault rifle with the other.
since the deal was clinched, attacks against U.S.-led NATO troops and Afghan government forces have tripled in eastern Afghanistan
The September 5 pact signed between tribal leaders and pro-Taliban forces and the government has ended clashes between militants and Pakistani security forces in which hundreds of people have been killed this year. The Pakistani government believes the arrangement will enable it to stem a growing tide of "Talibanization" among members of the conservative and fiercely independent Pashtun tribes who live in six semi-autonomous tribal states along the Afghan border. In return for curbing Taliban and al Qaeda activity, Pakistan has pledged to take a much lower profile in Waziristan.
But since the deal was clinched, attacks against U.S.-led NATO troops and Afghan government forces have tripled in eastern Afghanistan, especially in areas bordering North Waziristan. Nevertheless, the United States and Afghanistan have adopted a wait-and-see approach with the accord under which militants in Waziristan promised to halt attacks inside Pakistan as well as across the border in Afghanistan.
Some wear badges on their chests reading "Appointed by the office of the Taliban, the mujahideen of the North Waziristan Agency".
Critics fear the Waziristan pact risks creating havens for al Qaeda and Taliban fighters. But Pakistani officials say the deal will empower tribal elders to control militants in their region. These days, Pakistani forces are nowhere to be seen and government officials keep low profiles in their offices. Instead, long-haired, bearded militants wearing skull caps and with AK-47 rifles slung over their shoulders, roam Miranshah and the nearby town of Mir Ali. Some wear badges on their chests reading "Appointed by the office of the Taliban, the mujahideen of the North Waziristan Agency".
Mujahideen, or "holy warriors", flocked to the border region in the 1980s to battle Soviet invaders in Afghanistan. Many left Afghanistan and sought refuge in Waziristan after U.S.-led forces ousted Afghanistan's Taliban in 2001. From there, they infiltrated back into Afghanistan to fight foreign and government troops, until last months' deal.
Near Miranshah's main bazaar, the militants have opened an office in an Islamist madrasa, where their officials settle disputes among Pashtun tribesmen.
Near Miranshah's main bazaar, the militants have opened an office in an Islamist seminary, or madrasa, where their officials settle disputes among Pashtun tribesmen. "We are responsible for maintaining law and order in the bazaar," Eid Niaz, the deputy head of the office, told Reuters as tribesmen sat in a circle, waiting to plead their cases on issues such as disputes with neighbors.
Under the deal, tribes can be held responsible and punished for any violation to the agreement in line with tribal law. Punishment includes having vehicles confiscated by the government and shops and houses demolished or sealed. Residents said crime had fallen since the militants took over security responsibilities in the region, though several people accused of being "American informers" had been killed. "We're happy that they have taken charge of law and order. We don't have robberies anymore," said one resident.
The situation is similar to that in adjacent South Waziristan, where militants virtually took over after months of fighting with Pakistani forces. Many locals oppose President Pervez Musharraf and his support for the U.S.-led war on terrorism. Before the latest deal was reached,
Haqqani, who is also a firebrand cleric, said they were not sending militants into Afghanistan but still offered "moral support" to those fighting jihad there.
Taliban commanders in Afghanistan urged their allies in North Waziristan to stop fighting Pakistani forces and concentrate on jihad in Afghanistan instead, militant sources told Reuters.
Maulana Abdul Khaliq Haqqani, a member of a militant council, or shura, said his followers were strictly abiding by the pact, though he said the government had yet to keep its promises, such as compensation for families of those killed in the fighting. Haqqani, who is also a firebrand cleric, said they were not sending militants into Afghanistan but still offered "moral support" to those fighting jihad there. "There is no doubt that we support this jihad against infidels, against these Christians who have invaded a Muslim land ... We support oppressed people in Afghanistan and we pray for their success," he said.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Many locals oppose President Pervez Musharraf and his support for the U.S.-led war on terrorism.
???
How about "No locals who express support for President Pervez Musharraf and who don't wholedheartedly support Islamic terrorism could be found. On the other hand, we didn't ask much about it for fear of being killed."
India on Monday accused Pakistan of adopting a policy to actively encourage Indian soldiers to betray their country, while also charging Islamabad with operating a spy network between New Delhi and Kathmandu. The allegations came after India said at the weekend that it had arrested an army sergeant for allegedly handing secret military papers to a Pakistan High Commission employee. Talking to reporters on the sidelines of a Coast Guards commandersĀ conference, Indian Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee said: ĀIt is a matter of extreme concern that the ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence) is trying to infiltrate and subvert our armed forces.Ā Pakistan has denied that its employee was involved in espionage activity. But there was no immediate reaction from Islamabad to New DelhiĀs latest charge.
ĀOur intelligence networks in all the three services are active as there have been inputs that the ISI is trying to infiltrate the services and also make some of the personnel corrupt,Ā Mukherjee noted. He said that the armed forces had launched a major hunt for spies in its million-plus army, adding that Āsometimes we catch moles. But this time the exercises are aimed at nailing the kingpinsĀ.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Pranab Mukherjee is the new Indian Foreign Minister.
AK Antony, a former chief minister of Kerala state (and a christian) is the new Indian defence minister.
Posted by: john ||
10/24/2006 13:46 Comments ||
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BAGHDAD, Oct. 23, 2006 Ā Everybody knows the bad news: In September, the lights were on in Baghdad for around four hours a day. One study has OctoberĀs levels so far at 2.4, the lowest since the invasion.
A lot of Iraqi public opinion runs on rumors, and those with their ears pricked will tell you that after three-plus years and billions of reconstruction dollars, thereĀs a sneaking suspicion out in town that the U.S., whoĀs been putting men in orbit for four decades, could have had Baghdad twinkling like Times Square years ago if they wanted to. The conspiracy theory goes that the Americans have, insidiously, chosen not to. That theyĀre keeping Iraqis down, man. Either that, or we just donĀt care.
So the big question at a recent Iraqi media roundtable on electricity, hosted by the U.S. Army Corps of EngineersĀ Gulf Regional Division, was -- translated roughly from the Arabic -- ĀItĀs been three years and $4 billion. What gives?Ā
Leaning slowly forward to take it was Al Herman, a senior consultant with the State DepartmentĀs Iraq Reconstruction Management Office (IRMO) who works in Iraq with the Ministry of Electricity on project management and system planning. Herman has rebuilt and rehabbed electricity grids in 36 countries in 30 years -- if he just didnĀt care, heĀd probably have retired by now. And if he was evil (colleagues have nicknamed him ĀThe Prince of Darkness,Ā but thatĀs just blackout humor), well, heĀd probably have gotten himself an easier job.
But he sure had an answer.
ĀNine of the transmission lines bringing power into Baghdad have been interdicted. Blown up. Down and out.Ā If those lines were up and operating, Herman said, Baghdad would have in excess of 12 hours of power per day. ĀThe minister and his people have tried on numerous occasions to repair these lines. They keep getting attacked, killed, kidnapped and threatened.Ā
Security trumps a lot in Baghdad. And as far as infrastructure targets go, the transmission towers and wires that bring power into the capital make fairly juicy ones. TheyĀre exposed. TheyĀre pretty fragile. A tower, Herman explained, is easy to find, easy to knock down and not too hard to put back up. The bad guys can demonstrate their disruptive abilities, keep MoE manpower tied up and keep Baghdad dark without, say, taking out an entire power plant Ā which would make it spectacularly obvious that they, and not U.S. or Iraqi incompetence, are to blame for the lights being out.
ĀItĀs a game of cat and mouse,Ā Herman said. ĀWeĀre hoping over the next few months that we will be able to repair most of these lines and get them up and operating. And we need the help of all Iraqis in keeping them up and operating.Ā
But thereĀs more to the story than violence. Baghdad is also short on power because the rest of IraqĀs population is enjoying levels of electricity itĀs never seen before.
Electricity and politics do tend to function in tandem. A light switch may not care whoĀs flipping it, but the way infrastructure is distributed in a nation is a pretty reliable sign of where, well, where the power lies. Under Saddam Hussein, the lights in Baghdad were on all day and night. Favored Baathists were even allowed air conditioners and satellite TVs. Outside the capital? They got the scraps.
But just as the new Iraq constitution has devolved much political power away from the capital, reconstruction efforts have focused on making sure the spoils of power are spread around too. So even as demand for electricity Ā those now-legal air-conditioners and satellite TVs, and the momentum of consumerism Ā has risen steadily since the invasion, three-quarters of Iraqis have twice as much power as they did before the war.
ĀUnder Saddam Hussein, Baghdad pulled its power away from the rest of Iraq. WeĀve gone to a policy to try and equitably distribute that power across the country,Ā Army Col. Jon Christensen, GRDĀs electricity sector director, said. ĀSo now, outside of Baghdad, they have gone from zero in some cases, up to twelve or fourteen hours of power a day.Ā
Overall, the GRD has started 520 electricity-related projects and completed 220 of them so far. The peak generation capacity of IraqĀs nationwide network is now 4,500 megawatts -- still short of the goal of 6,000 megawatts, buthigher than the pre-war levels of 4,200. And much better-distributed, by much better equipment.
ĀUnfortunately,Ā said the colonel, ĀBaghdad has paid the price for that.Ā
So whatĀs next? In the short term, Col. Christensen focuses his smaller projects in specific areas after they have been cleared by Baghdad Security Plan operations Ā moving as quickly as possible to take advantage of the drop in violence after an operation moves through (and trying to demonstrate to citizens that U.S. and Iraqi officials have more on their minds than checkpoints and house searches). And Herman has plans to ĀhardenĀ the transmission towers, along with other measures, to make the Āweak linksĀ of BaghdadĀs power chain a little harder to snap.
But the longer-term vision, Herman said, is for IRMO and the MoE to spend 2007 putting Baghdad on its own power footing, with more generation and more facilities in the so-called ĀBaghdad Ring,Ā so that thereĀs no chain to break. ĀWe donĀt want the over-reliance on the grid that Baghdad has now,Ā he said.
As with just about everything else the U.S. is trying to do in Iraq, IRMO, USAID and GRD are fast turning the job of building, maintaining, and fueling an Iraqi electricity system worthy of the 21st century over to the Iraqis. GRD expects to complete its remaining 300 construction projects in the next year or two. USAID, after contributing 1,292 megawatts of generation (half from new plants and half from rehabilitated ones) to this point, will devote its efforts for the next few years to training Iraqi workers and contractors to maintain and repair modern turbine generation systems that they havenĀt seen before. Although Herman likes what heĀs seen in the MoE and its engineers so far.
ĀWhen they go out and repair transmission lines, they do a marvelous job, even compared to what we do in the United States. They are actually quicker at recovering from blackouts than we are in the United States,Ā he said. ĀThey have experience in this.Ā
The future, the Prince of Darkness said, Ālooks brighter.Ā But bringing twenty-four hours of power to all 18 provinces will take Āanywhere from $20-30 billion over the next seven years,Ā and with the U.S. no longer budgeting for new construction, that money will have to come from the Iraqis.
Even if the security situation were to improve overnight Ā ĀIf you can promise me no one will come and blow up the transmission lines, I can promise you weĀll get power into Baghdad,Ā Herman said at one point -- Iraqis who may have expected miracles when the U.S. arrived in March 2003 are going to have to settle for the best we can do in the time weĀve had. In the reality we found here.
ĀWhat you need to understand,Ā Herman told the journalists, Āis that the $4 billion that we have spent on electricity here in Iraq in the three years has done nothing more than what I would call kick-starting the system.Ā
ĀYou donĀt rebuild an electric system as bad as this one was, in a short period of time.Ā
Turns out electricity in Iraq is pretty much like, well, like everything else in Iraq. Held hostage in Baghdad. Better in the rest of the country. A long way and a lot of work from reaching first-world standards, but all in all, far from hopeless. Yet rapidly proving that even the mighty Americans will need the Iraqis to finish the job.
Heck, it took us almost a decade just to put a man on the moon.
Waaaaay too complicated for "The Evening News"
Posted by: Bobby ||
10/24/2006 06:13 ||
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Arabs. It doesn't matter. If you build it, they will come - and blow it up. Even if they had the sense not to self-fuck by blowing it up, they'd tear down the power lines and steal the copper - and complain about the outage.
Arab society, using symptoms as the defining criteria, runs on rumors and fantasies and sectarian hate and blood feuds and slights, whether real or imagined. Were it not for the ideology and Sharia Law of Islam, they would have disappeared from the world centuries ago.
Expecting anything but duplicity and blame and violence, whether fed by sectarian hate or romantic jihadi fantasy or the most amazing collection of misogynistic and misanthropic lies ever assembled under one tent, is for the dupes and symps of the MSM, the diplodink accommodating appeasers, and the Stalinist and Gaullist and ChiCom triangulating foreign policy wonks of the enemies of freedom.
#2
I'd say Baghdad hasn't been deserving of power lately. Let the f*ckers build their IEDs in the dark. I'd keep the power off in Sadr City as a message
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/24/2006 9:05 Comments ||
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#3
We'll know that Maliki & Co are semi-serious when they ban all motorized vehicular traffic and cell phones - permanently. These two modern conveniences appears to be essential for any significant level of killing to continue. They don't need them. Mo got along without them, so that should be good enough for these clowns, too.
Taking the ankle express to "war" and being reduced to shouting strike me as apropos to these "warriors".
#6
Arabs. It doesn't matter. If you build it, they will come - and blow it up. Even if they had the sense not to self-fuck by blowing it up, they'd tear down the power lines and steal the copper - and complain about the outage.
Thanks,.com. That is the most trenchant and incisive analysis of the ME that I have ever read. Made my day.
#7
If any of these worthless f**ks ever put in an honest workday, they wouldn't have so much energy to be up all night killing each other. Maybe some of their broken infrastructure would get fixed. And, if they worked all day fixing something, they wouldn't be so eager to let some numbskull blow it up at night. The best thing to do is abandon these worthless shits. Let them figure out how to take care of their sandpile. Maybe they'll get it righted by say 2310.
#11
Lol - Oh yeah, they've surely proven they deserve that "improve your lives bit". What with the Unity Govt and the rejection of foreign influence and interference by both the Sunnis and the Shia - and the dismantling of the militias, woohoo, it's hard to say where to begin when praising the Iraqi Arabs.
#12
Ok, it least youre consistent and make logical sense. If it werent for the Kurds, youd be for withdrawl, I take it.
As sympathetic with the Kurds as I am, I dont think we can maintain an indefinite occupation of the Rest of Iraq, with no hope for improvement in the lives of IRaqi arabs, just to help the Kurds. It costs us too much - in lives, in the use of force that could be used elsewhere, in money, in war weariness at home (that should be conserved for elsewhere) and in repuation abroad.
(note none of the above means I AGREE with you on what Iraqi arabs deserve - just that I dont care to rehash that now)
#13
Lol - you take it wrong. I'm not for withdrawal.
Funny thing is, much of the speculation you and I could engage in would become moot with 2 actions: removal of the Mullahs and a long-overdue showdown with the Saudis.
Syria would go off-line rather quickly as a source of grief both in Iraq as well as Leb. They are so addicted to Mad Mullah Money they'd probably implode.
Both sides of the Arab sectarian bullshit that ails Iraq would suddenly be sponsorless - and dependent upon the successful economic development of the country, not their usual centuries-old blood feud. It would be interesting to see if they were finally capable of getting it - since the money flow for fighting would substantially dry up - or if they, the Iraqi Arabs of both flavors, are just too stupid to live.
Anyway, with those two de-funding actions, the entire M.E. equation could be altered forever and the myth of "stability", which only favors the asshat situation prevalent since it was carved up into the present mess, finally flushed.
#14
Personally, I think an attack on Iran is going to need boots on the ground, and so cant really be done while we're on Iraq (or till weve gone much farther in terms of expanding the army, which means years, which amounts to the same thing) I realize strategic views differ.
But, if you think that the violence would end with the end of the sponsors (I tend to think youre right there) then what does that say about the depth of the insurgency in Iraq? If the Shiites are really dead set against us, than Id think they would be hell to deal with, even without the shaped charges and other goodies the Sadrists get from Iran. If the Sadrist insurgency melts away without outside assistance, Id say that suggests that most ordinary in the street Shiites arent so far gone, that maybe the lions share of them ARE interested in the new Iraq that the admin talks about. In which case Im not sure they arent deserving of things improving.
#15
"the dismantling of the militias, woohoo, it's hard to say where to begin when praising the Iraqi Arab"
Youre an Iraqi Shiite Arab living in Baghdad. Every day Al Qaeeda types come to kill your neighbors, torture your neighbors, blow up your houses of worship, your markets, etc. A bunch of guys who are like you, some of whom you know, who follow a guy who defied the old regime, say theyre going to protect your neighborhood, and maybe go after the AQ types in their own areas. But some suit from the govt, whose forces have not managed to protect you, and his foreign pals, whos forces have also not managed to protect you (and for all you know are going to be gone in a year anyway) tell you that you should want these friendly protectors disarmed, cause, I dunno, "Guns kill" or something like that?
What would you say? Id bet it would a variant on "f*** you". We're not the only country, or the only civ, with "Jacksonians"
#16
Personally, I think an attack on Iran is going to need boots on the ground, and so cant really be done while we're on Iraq (or till weve gone much farther in terms of expanding the army, which means years, which amounts to the same thing)
Hold on. You think we've taught the Iraqis, who fought the Iranians to a standstill with Soviet equipment and tactics, nothing? You don't think U. S. air, naval and intel support might make a teeny difference? You don't think an action in Iran would be a whole lot more fun to watch if the Iraqis did the bootwork while we did the rest? No, I say if Iran supplied Iraq with the tiniest causus belli, we could have a lot of fun now. If there were any Jacksonian Iraqis.
#22
We all need a chance to lighten up a bit. And as this article points out, sex is always on the male mind ....
True story from the early 1970s. I was meeting my fiance's grandmother for the first time. A proper Lady, she was, and quite intimidating. Until, in a discussion of the hippy movement, she leaned forward and said,
"Sex, sex, sex. You young people think you've invented it. I've forgotten more about sex than you all have learned so far!
And when I later saw photos of her in her beautiful youth in the '20s, I could believe it!
Amen. Long hard slog ahead. I've already made my points in, oh, about 6 or 7 thousand different ways, lol, so no use in belaboring it further on every thread every day. Now I just wanna sit back, snark, appreciate others posts, ogle stuff, spit a little to keep up my aim, and flow with the go. :-)
Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Barham Salih warned against defeatism and panic on Monday as his U.S. and British allies came under growing pressure to change their Iraq strategy in the face of relentless bloodshed. Salih, in London for talks with British Prime Minister Tony Blair and other British ministers, made clear his anxiety about the change in tone in London and Washington, where senior figures are questioning whether the current strategy in Iraq is viable. "I'm obviously concerned about the debate both in the U.S. and Europe, I have to say, because there is too much of a pessimistic tone to this debate -- even I would say in certain circles a defeatist tone," he told BBC radio.
We need to be realist but not defeatist. We need to understand that there is a need of utmost urgency to deal with many of the problems of Iraq but we must not give in to panic.
"We need to be realist but not defeatist. We need to understand that there is a need of utmost urgency to deal with many of the problems of Iraq but we must not give in to panic."
U.S. military deaths in Iraq in October have reached 83, making it the most deadly month for Americans this year and raising pressure on President George W. Bush before Congressional elections next month in which Republicans could lose majorities in both houses. U.S. military officials in Iraq have admitted that a two-month plan to secure Baghdad has failed to curb violence.
In Britain, army chief General Richard Dannatt sparked a political storm by saying British troops should withdraw from Iraq soon as their presence was worsening the security situation.
In Britain, army chief General Richard Dannatt sparked a political storm this month by saying British troops should withdraw from Iraq soon as their presence was worsening the security situation there and in the wider world.
Salih said the current situation in Iraq could not go on. "Especially the last month has been exceptionally tough and difficult, but really failure is not an option..." he said. British officials gave a similar message before their meetings with Salih. Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said: "We need to keep our nerve. We need to get Iraq back on its feet. We need to establish greater stability."
The Iraqi government recognized it could not be business as usual and planned important laws on demobilization and disarmament of militias.
The Iraqi government recognized it could not be business as usual and planned important laws on demobilization and disarmament of militias, Salih said. Bush said on Saturday he would make "every necessary change" in tactics to try to control violence in Iraq, but said the U.S. goal there was clear and unchanging. U.S. State Department official Alberto Fernandez said on Al Jazeera television the U.S. had shown "arrogance" and "stupidity" in Iraq, but later said he had misspoken.
Blair has vowed to stand firm on his policy of withdrawing progressively from Iraq as local security forces take over from British troops. An official said at the weekend that Iraqi security forces could be ready to take over within a year.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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U.S. military officials in Iraq have admitted that a two-month plan to secure Baghdad has failed to curb violence. I saw one guy quoted as saying that it hadn't reduced the violence as much as they'd hoped/planned. Not quite the same as 'failed'.
In Britain, army chief General Richard Dannatt sparked a political storm this month by saying British troops should withdraw from Iraq soon as their presence was worsening the security situation there and in the wider world. I heard him say (on the radio)"after the mission is complete."
U.S. State Department official Alberto Fernandez said on Al Jazeera television the U.S. had shown "arrogance" and "stupidity" in Iraq, but later said he had misspoken. So why is it repeated here?
Reuters road-apples
Posted by: Bobby ||
10/24/2006 6:40 Comments ||
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#2
They always use these "power" words, such as "panic" and "fear", where "huh?" and "yawn" would suffice.
#3
We Americans aren't panicked. You sanddogs are when you detect that we're getting pissed. Worn out. Tired of your shit. Yup, we're gonna be packing our bags soon. Get used to it.
Five months after taking office in the citadel, Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki finds his leadership increasingly paralyzed by wrangling within his coalition and Shi'ite allies, as frustration among U.S. officials grows over his failure to move against militias and tackle a host of other issues.
In a recent interview, Vice President Adel Abdul Mahdi said Iraq's most dangerous problem was decision-making.
Disarming militias is a political decision, not a military one. But who is going to take it
"Disarming militias is a political decision, not a military one. But who is going to take it? Maliki alone cannot take it even though he is the prime minister," a senior Shi'ite official close to Maliki said on condition of anonymity. "The challenges are big but the issue is not about who is the prime minister or about his personality," the official said.
That's kind of the problem with "governments of national unity," isn't it?
Maliki was thrust to the forefront of Iraqi politics with the image of a tough Shi'ite Islamist who could weld warring factions together into a national unity government. His nomination by the Shi'ite Alliance bloc ended months of deadlock over his dithering predecessor Ibrahim al-Jaafari. His brisk style earned him praise from U.S. officials anxious for a decisive leader capable of stemming a drift toward civil war.
Now, election-year pressure is piling on President George W. Bush to revise his Iraq policy as sectarian violence worsens and the U.S. death toll climbs. Media reports that Bush officials are drafting a timetable for Baghdad to address violence and assume a larger role in security suggest Washington is prepared to push Maliki harder but the premier's aides say lack of government cohesion and growing Shi'ite factionalism are holding Maliki hostage.
They say he has found every decision challenged, whether by minority Sunni Arabs or Kurds or Shi'ite rivals.
They say he has found every decision challenged, whether by minority Sunni Arabs or Kurds or Shi'ite rivals. "Maliki understands that him staying as prime minister depends on pleasing other political groups and on being diplomatic with all powers, so how can he accomplish anything?" said Hazem al-Naimi, a political science professor.
Rival Shi'ite groups within his coalition include the powerful Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) and the faction of Moqtada al-Sadr, a volatile cleric who heads a militia blamed for many sectarian killings. U.S. commanders have been pressing Maliki to crack down on Sadr's Mehdi Army, but Maliki's political fortunes depend on the support he gets from Moqtada's group in parliament. Last week, U.S. officials arrested a senior Sadr aide in Baghdad but reluctantly released him next day after following a request from Maliki that he be freed.
A widening power struggle in the Shi'ite heartland between Sadr and the Badr Brigades, linked to SCIRI, sparked clashes last week in Amara and other towns in the oil-rich south. A Shi'ite versus Shi'ite war would add more headaches to U.S.-led forces, battling Sunni rebels in central and western Iraq. "There is a lot of political maneuvering going on and these clashes are part of that," Major Charlie Burbridge, a spokesman for the British forces in Basra said of the fighting in Amara.
Signs of straining relations between Washington and Baghdad emerged last week when Maliki used a telephone call with Bush to seek assurances that the United States would not set a deadline for him to improve security and address sectarianism.
Bush administration officials publicly endorse Maliki but have hinted that their patience is not open-ended. Bush has talked of changing tactics if not strategy. Signs of straining relations between Washington and Baghdad emerged last week when Maliki used a telephone call with Bush to seek assurances that the United States would not set a deadline for him to improve security and address sectarianism.
Some Shi'ite politicians complain that U.S. pressure to form a power-sharing system in post-war Iraq among its three main groups has blocked them from exercising decisive majority rule. "Maliki did not choose his own government. Some ministers were forced on him. If he wants to replace an inefficient minister with another more professional one he can't do it," a SCIRI official told Reuters.
The political paralysis is hindering not only Maliki's pledges to disarm militias and overhaul the Interior Ministry, but also plans to stamp out graft and improve public services. "We can't even decide on building an oil refinery in Samawa," Mahdi said. "We have the money and it's a safe place. Why can't we do it? Because nobody can make a decision."
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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Would you buy a used car from this guy? I didn't think so.
Posted by: Captain America ||
10/24/2006 0:41 Comments ||
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You had better become a leader overnight Mr President. Americans are out of charity. Pockets empty, graves full for removing Saddam. So, You are who must take Iraq BOLDLY forward. Forget Poetry.
My brother, Please learn how to lead them instead of playing kindergarden teacher with them.
#3
Five months after taking office Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki finds his leadership increasingly paralyzed by wrangling within his coalition and Shi'ite allies, as frustration among U.S. officials grows
Sounds like the American people getting frustrated with Bush's policies and donk defeatism and ankle biting.
They say he has found every decision challenged
Sounds a lot like the situation George Bush has with the donks.
Sounds like we've done a pretty good job of installing American style government over there. Time to start handing out more of that oil money to get the votes to pick a winner and then raise taxes to pay for it.
Think of Sadr City as K Street. The only challenge is to get them to use money instead of bullets.
The Iraqis elected the real "good guys" pro US secular democrats to only about 10% of the seats in parliament. Add the Kurds, another 20%, with their own agenda, but willing to do what needs to be done to make things work.
20% Sunni parties, which range from suspicious of the US but pragmatic, to al Qaeeda sympathizers.
But just over 50% went to the United Iraqi Alliance, a Shiite coalition. As long as the UIA acts as a block, you cant make a govt without them. We've made two tries - Jaafari, and now Maliki, to get UIA to lead a coalition govt, and be pragmatic about A. A compromise on federalism that accommodates the sane Sunnis and B. Cracking down on militias.
The problem is that the nastier militias, the Sadrists, are PART of the UIA. And no UIA leader trusts the Sunnis, or the Allawi-secularists, enough to be willing to break with the Sadrists.
so there are two questions facing Condi, Baker, Hadley and whoever else is making policy on Iraq now. 1. Do we have the political will to break the UIA - which means threatening something - either a withdrawl, or a coup, or an unauthorized attack on Sadr that breaks the UIA - to get certain friendly Shia parties to take the leap and break with the Sadrists? 2. Are we prepared to send in enough troops to be able to take down the Sadrists, while holding against the Sunni insurgents, and knowing that many of the trained Iraqi forces are not reliable against the Sadrists?
Note, both these represent admitting that "staying the course" isnt enough - though they deviate from the course in seemingly opposite directions - the first involves the dems favorite strat of setting timetables for the Iraqis - the second involves the McCain approach of more boots on the ground.
#5
There is another possability, liberalhawk, which is explored on Rantburg here
If we stay, whether it be ten weeks or ten years, at some point the Iraqi Army will be able to stand on its' own. Then we can hang around and make popcorn.
Posted by: Bobby ||
10/24/2006 17:38 Comments ||
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More and more cars stolen in Norway are turning up in Iraq, with some of them being used by suicide bombers. The car thefts in Norway are thus being linked to terrorist activity and the financing of terrorism. Car thefts have often been carried out by criminals who later use them in armed robberies, the drug trade or for sale in developing countries. Investigators are now tracking them to the Middle East, where sometimes their license plates are merely covered over by local plates.
Many of the cars carry large loans, meaning their theft amounts to a swindle against the lender financing them or the car's insurance company. Nearly 60 stolen cars worth as much as NOK 20 million are believed to have been sent to northern Iraq via Syria and Turkey as early as 2004. Geir Skjelstad, whose company Hera AS works for an automobile finance company, claims some of the cars were then smuggled into southern Iraq. "The information we're getting is that they are used in suicide bombings or in other terrorist operations," he told newspaper Aftenposten over the weekend.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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How are they being sent? Several years ago, cars stolen in Chicago were driven into shipping containers and loaded onto ships bound for Norway, but the SUV's were destined for Russia. Tracking cargo containers both in and out of the region and finding who is doing the shipping would unravel another terrorist/criminal ring.
Allies are supposed to be off-limits. Palestinian governing Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) condemned on Tuesday the abduction of a Spanish photographer that works for the Associated Press (AP) near a Gaza hotel by unknown masked militants.
In a written statement sent to reporters, Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoom urged the kidnappers to free the foreign photographer immediately and without conditions.
Palestinian security sources and eyewitnesses said that unknown masked militants abducted AP photographer Emillio Yomartani near Palestine Hotel on the beachside of Gaza City and fled the scene.
The sources said that the masked militants forced Yomartani to get into their car and ran away from the area.
No one has claimed responsibility and no contacts had been yet conducted with the unknown abductors.
"Actions of abductions are not our culture and are not in our doctrine. The Spanich photographer should be immediately freed,"said Barhoom, adding "Hamas condemns the abduction of guests that carry eminent massages."
Meanwhile, Hamas-led government spokesman Ghazi Hamad also denounced that "this crime is a violation of law and hurts the image of the Palestinian people."
"The government totally rejects such actions that feed chaos and anarchy," he stated.
The abduction of the Spanish photographer was carried out two months after the abduction of two Fox News journalists who were released after a two-week kidnapping in Gaza.
Two weeks ago, an American student was also abducted by unknown militants in the West Bank city of Nablus. The abductors calledfor freeing women and children from Israeli prisons. The student was finally freed.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has reached a deal to broaden his shaky coalition by adding a far-right party that seeks to annex parts of the West Bank and reduce Israel's Arab population.
The move is seen as an attempt to stabilise the faltering coalition Government, which has been struggling for months. But the new partner Ā Israel Beiteinu, or Israel Is Our Home Ā strongly opposes concessions to the Palestinians.
The deal signals that Mr Olmert is now more concerned with internal Israeli politics than with initiatives to deal with the Palestinians.
The agreement changes the complexion of the Government, which previously presented itself as centrist. The shift has been caused largely by the two military crises in Gaza and Lebanon. Polls suggest Mr Olmert would be heavily defeated in an election now by more traditional, right-wing parties.
The Prime Minister has already indicated that the central theme of his election campaign, a withdrawal from some Jewish settlements in the West Bank, has been put on indefinite hold. The latest development reinforces that notion.
On Monday, Israeli forces killed six Palestinians, at least three of them militants, in clashes in the northern Gaza Strip, the scene of repeated fighting in recent months.
Mr Olmert overrode opposition from some liberal members of his coalition to bring in the party led by Avigdor Lieberman, a Soviet immigrant who advocates annexing Jewish settlements in the West Bank and transferring most Arab citizens of Israel to a future Palestinian state.
Mr Lieberman enjoys massive support among many Russian-speaking immigrants. His secular but strongly Zionist message won unexpectedly strong backing at the March general election.
Before the election, he admitted being an opponent of Israeli-Arab coexistence, proposing that large Arab Israeli towns be transferred from Israel in exchange for Jewish settlements in the West Bank.
He called for Israeli Arab MPs who met Palestinian politicians from Hamas to be executed.
These views could cause problems with more moderate elements of Mr Olmert's coalition, especially the Labour Party.
The Prime Minister said he planned to make Mr Lieberman a deputy prime minister responsible for "strategic threats" against Israel, a portfolio that would include monitoring Iran, which Israel regards as its most dangerous enemy.
Ahmed Hushiyeh holds degrees in political science and communications, and dreams of becoming a photojournalist. But after a futile search for a job, the young Palestinian works as a janitor at his alma mater, Birzeit University. He is saving money in the hopes of moving to Europe, enrolling in another university, and finding work.
Political paralysis during Hamas's brief tenure leading the Palestinian government and escalating violence between rival security forces has convinced Mr. Hushiyeh that his career path lies abroad. "I am not optimistic. The situation is only deteriorating. Maybe outside, the opportunities are much better," he says. "Every young man wishes to have a job and have a life. But when he sees what we have here: occupation, siege, a low standard of living, security crisis - all of this creates a desire to leave. I want to get out of this crisis."
Like Hushiyeh, a growing number of Palestinians are openly saying they'd like to leave the West Bank and Gaza if given the chance, raising concern about the possibility of a Palestinian brain drain. The sentiment, which flouts the long-held Palestinian belief that Israeli occupation can only be resisted by staying put, is yet another indication of the deepening despair since Hamas was elected to run the government.
Birzeit University pollster Nader Said, who has monitored emigration attitudes for 12 years, says the percentage of Palestinians willing to relocate once hovered just below 20 percent. When that figure jumped to 32 percent in a September survey, Mr. Said says he was shocked. The catalyst, the pollster says, has been Palestinian disillusionment following Hamas's half-year in government. "What the Israelis were unable to do - try to push the Palestinian out of the country - the internal strife is achieving," he says. Even more telling, adds Said, is that the percentage surges to 44 percent among Palestinians in their 20s and 30s. Among young men, it surges beyond 50 percent.
Malik Shawwa, a consultant specializing in obtaining Canadian visas, says his workload has jumped by two-thirds over the past seven months as more Palestinians ask about leaving. "This is the most important subject in the Palestinian territories," he says. "It's not just a matter of a lack of jobs. It's the situation. They're not secure. They don't trust the government."
Among Palestinians, the mere mention of hijra - Arabic for emigration - is enough to stir up painful memories of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war that left hundreds of thousands of Palestinians stranded outside the newly independent Israeli state. "Emigration means that you are escaping the occupation and that you don't want to liberate your land. It's a shame on you," says Abdel Nasser Najjar, a columnist for the Palestinian daily Al Ayyam. "Now it's different. There are many pressures: economic pressure and psychological pressure. Many people are speaking out."
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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the percentage of Palestinians willing to relocate once hovered just below 20 percent. ...that figure jumped to 32 percent in a September survey... The catalyst has been Palestinian disillusionment following Hamas's half-year in government. ... the percentage surges to 44 percent among Palestinians in their 20s and 30s. Among young men, it surges beyond 50 percent.
Some are capable of recognizing reality, and actually responding realistically.
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/24/2006 8:22 Comments ||
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#4
If only they didn't drag along with them the virulent Paleo hate baggage they were fed from birth and use their Western salaries to support the Hate MachineĀ that created them.
#5
I wonder if they would be willing to relocate to, say Iraq, and put their education to use in rebuilding within their own culture? Plenty of opportunities and jobs to fill there so our military can get some R & R. Seems like the Palestinians have more hope of becoming part of a productive society in the region than either staying in Gaza or relocating to the Muslim ghettos of Europe. Reason apparently isn't genetic, though.
#6
They want to relocate, but what country in its right mind would take them? Palestinians have proven themselves to be toxic. They do not assimilate. They become a drain on whatever country takes them in. Look at what they did to Jordan. Palestinians are the mosquitos and termites of the arab world.
#7
Danielle, Saddam Hussein brought in Palestinians and gave them a privileged place in his country. Once he was gone and they were no longer protected, news reports indicated that the Iraqi people drove the lucky ones out of the country and killed the rest. Palestinians would not be welcome in most of Iraq.
#8
You Paleo scumbags ought to be aware of something you nay have missed due to your marching, tire burning, and daily gun sex orgies. No one in the civilized world wants any more sand fleas. You are radioactive persona non grata. Stay in the hellhole of your making. Swim in the shit turds of your own cesspool. No one else wants to be infected by the lowest form of humanity on the earth.
it's the same old story - and while nobody wants the Paelo's because they carry all of that hate/blame baggage - I can't help realizing that this sentiment is what makes America strong.
The smart ones see the hoplessness of their current and have the get up and go to get out.
#10
anon, America is strong because previous immigrants came to America becaue they wanted to become Americans. I have no problem with immigrants who want to become Americans, who accept American values, who obey our laws, who want to work to make better lives for themselves and their families, who accept the responsibilities of being a citizen. Palestinian, and muslims in general, don't fall into that category. They like the wealth of the country but despise the system that created it. They think we are stupid and weak becaue of the rights that we acknowledge belong to our citizens. They reject our laws and our culture. They look down on Americans as infidels to be cheated, conquered, or killed. They keep apart and work to overthrow our culture and our country. They are poisonous serpents in our midst and only a suicidal fool would allow them entrance.
#12
"Every young man wishes to have a job and have a life. But when he sees what we have here: occupation, siege, a low standard of living, security crisis - all of this creates a desire to leave. I want to get out of this crisis."
Hey, Mr. Hushiyeh, what about killin' all them Jews? Was that something you wanted too? If so, then you helped dig that cesspool you're so desperate to climb out of. Just sayin'.
Hamas prime minister Ismail Haniya appealed for Palestinian unity and continuing resistance to Israel Monday amid a standoff with moderate president Mahmoud Abbas and clashes between their rival supporters. ĀStop the bloodshed, stop using weapons against your brothers, and unite,Ā Haniya told a crowd of about 20,000 gathered in Gaza City after prayers for the Eid al-Fitr feast marking the end of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
Supporters of his ruling Hamas movement and AbbasĀ rival Fatah faction have clashed repeatedly since the Islamists routed Fatah from power in January elections, with the confrontations increasing during the past weeks.
On Sunday, a member of the security services loyal to Abbas was killed in clashes with Hamas forces, two days after gunmen opened fire near HaniyaĀs convoy, the latest of more than two dozen people killed in the internecine violence.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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Stop the bloodshed, stop using weapons against your brothers, and unite,Ā
Oh, ya, that's gonna do it
Posted by: Captain America ||
10/24/2006 0:43 Comments ||
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Of course with Haniya wearing the golden turban.
Posted by: ed ||
10/24/2006 0:48 Comments ||
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#3
We all have a lot of things in common.
(1) We all hate Jews.
(2) We all hate Americans.
(3) We all hate each other.
IRAN'S President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has called for a baby boom to almost double the country's population to 120 million and enable it to "triumph" over the West.
Mr Ahmadinejad told MPs he wanted to scrap birth control policies that discourage Iranian couples from having more than two children. Women should work less and devote more time to their "main mission" of raising children, he said.
His comments amounted to an attack on official policies sanctioned by senior Islamic clerics aimed at limiting Iran's population, now 70 million. The Government backs birth control measures including female sterilisation, vasectomies and mandatory family planning classes for newlyweds. Iran also has a state-owned condom factory.
"I am against saying two children are enough," Mr Ahmadinejad said. "Our country has a lot of capacity. It has the capacity for many children to grow in it. It even has the capacity for 120 million people.
"Westerners have got problems. Because their population growth is negative they are worried and fear that if our population increases, we will triumph over them."
Critics said Mr Ahmadinejad's call was ill-judged at a time when Iran is struggling with surging inflation and rising unemployment, unofficially about 25 per cent.
Mr Ahmadinejad's call is similar to one by the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, after the 1979 Islamic revolution. The policy led to a population explosion but was reversed because of the strain on the economy, and population growth dropped from an all-time high of 3.2 per cent in 1986 to about 1.2 per cent, similar to Australia.
#4
I wonder if Mr Math is aware that it takes 2.1 to break even.
Ironically, the Iranian pop has boomed because Khomeini decreed birth control to be haram back in '79. So they have this large bubble or relatively young folks - and these are the people that, largely, are pro-western / anti-mullah. Sadly, there seems to be a majority across all age groups who get a woodie about having nukes, so the rest of it sorta doesn't matter. Sad, that. Dickhead calling for these people to reproduce for the state won't mean much - they're not his little 'bots.
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LebanonĀs government has received a ĀfinalĀ UN text laying out the legal basis for an international court to try suspects in the 2005 killing of former premier Rafiq Hariri, a judicial source said Monday. Nicolas Michel, United Nations under secretary general for legal affairs, handed over the document on Saturday, the source said, and it could be approved by the Security Council Āthis weekĀ. The text would then need to be approved by the Lebanese government before its adoption in parliament. No official comment was immediately available on the contents of the document.
Lebanese daily LĀOrient Le Jour on Monday quoted Prime Minister Fuad Siniora as saying the new text was Āthe final oneĀ and no longer mentioned Ācrimes against humanity ... a judicial obstacle feared by certain partiesĀ. Hariri was assassinated on February 14, 2005 in a massive bomb blast on the Beirut seafront that also killed 22 others. A UN probe, which is still underway, has implicated senior officials from Syria, which for decades was the power-broker in its smaller neighbor. Damascus strongly denies any connection with the killing. Beirut said in September that a tribunal proposal submitted at the time needed clarification before a final version was adopted, without saying what issues were outstanding.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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Hizbullah refused to comment Sunday on Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmad Abou al-Gheit's remarks that the resistance group may have initiated the July-August war with Israel to escape the looming issue of disarmament. A Hizbullah official, who wished to remain anonymous, told The Daily Star on Sunday that "Abou al-Gheit and his comments are not worthy of a response or a comment."
Posted by: Fred ||
10/24/2006 00:00 ||
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"Besides, what can we say?"
Posted by: Bobby ||
10/24/2006 6:52 Comments ||
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Dr. Tawfik Hamid holds a boxed lunch in one hand and offers me his book, The Roots of Jihad, with the other. A Muslim, he wears Western clothing. Still, I refrain from extending my hand. We walk back to the conference room. No photographs of Dr. Hamid are allowed. ĀFor security reasons,Ā says the doctor, who looks younger than his 45 years.
Dr. Hamid fled his native Egypt because he espouses a peaceful interpretation of Islam based on the Koran. Today he is one of the leading authorities on the Islamic texts (Sulafi) which are responsible for the wildfire spread of jihad in the Arab world. As I listen to his articulate scholarship, his bitter condemnation of his own people, Icatch myself staring.
Before he embraced this new way of seeing, Dr. Hamid was an ideological extremist on the fast track to becoming a real live terrorist. ĀI was eight when I first heard the teaching that says, ĀWhen you die a martyr, you are not dead Ā you are alive,ĀĀ says Dr. Hamid, who was raised in a secular Muslim family. ĀDying for Allah was the only guarantee that we would not go to the grave. ĀFor us, the grave was frightening. Sulafi Islam teaches that only punishment awaits us in the grave. So to me, and many kids around me, the idea of dying for Allah and going to Paradise was wonderful. For me, a child, that meant eating lollipops and candy and chocolate. Believe me. This was my dream!Ā
Later, the dream changed. During medical school, Dr. Hamid joined JI (Jaamma Islameia), an outlaw fundamentalist group calling for jihad against Muslims who have abandoned their faith (apostates) and non-Muslims.
He met Dr. Aiman Al-Zawaheri Ā now Al QaidaĀs second in command under Osama bin Laden Ā in JI. Asked what Al-Zawaheri was like, Dr. Hamid does not hesitate. (And any Muslim who hesitates Āeven for one secondĀ when answering a question is being deceptive, he later stresses.) ĀAl-Zawaheri was a very nice man on the personal level,Ā he says. ĀHe was very dedicated to the concept of jihad against the US. He often came to the mosque I went to. We prayed together. We talked.Ā
I need to know why Dr. Hamid is no longer an extremist. What happened? ĀAt first I followed the teachings of Sulafi Islam. Ichanged into a person that justified the killings of innocents. I thought in a totally distorted manner. I became like a beast.
ĀWhen it came time to go forward and commit certain acts Ā I was invited to go Afghanistan, to train for jihad, to die for Allah Ā I felt this struggle between my conscience and the religious teachings. I started to think. ĀAnd this word, thinking, probably is what saved me. I began to question. You see, at the theoretical level things seemed OK. But at the practical level, when I was about to act . . .
ĀA friend introduced me to another form of Islamic thinking that was relatively peaceful. I say relatively peaceful, compared to the other kind. ĀThis sect was primarily based on the Koran. I began studying Koranic verses in a totally different manner. There are many verses in the Koran that praise BĀnai Yisrael; that grant the Israelis the land. Soon I started to preach this new understanding.Ā
One day, he was called to preach at the mosque. ĀI gave a lecture, and people listened peacefully. It was good. But afterward, some fundamentalists surrounded me. They said, if you come here again we will kill you. Then they attacked me, and my friend. We ran. But soon they began stoning me.Ā
Dr. Hamid looks at me with pained and furious eyes. ĀUnfortunately, this resistance to peaceful teaching is not limited to fundamentalists. It is now at the level of the people.Ā Rest at link.
Posted by: ed ||
10/24/2006 06:38 ||
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It seems possible that there is at least one moderate Muslim, (that'd be the author, Dr. Tawfik Hamid, who has quite a bit of courage, it seems), so the existence of moderate Muslims is no longer "Mythical".
Posted by: Bobby ||
10/24/2006 6:52 Comments ||
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#2
He's a phony. His kind will attack jihadis overtly, by claiming their terror is executed without ulama (Muslim religious leadership) support, while covertly supporting operations against the non-Muslim enemy. That way they fake opposition to jihadism.
#3
ĀA friend introduced me to another form of Islamic thinking that was relatively peaceful. I say relatively peaceful, compared to the other kind.
Read the whole article. Dr. Hamid has put his life, and the lives and safety of his entire family, on the line in order to speak out. Some tricks for how to ask questions and demand answers... and no hope that the world can live with this entire generation of Muslims, barring a few exceptions. Good find, ed.
#4
TW: I have read the Koran and I don't remember a single verse friendly to the Jews That is why, like Snease, I tend to believe that he is an impostor.
#5
It seems possible that there is at least one moderate Muslim, (that'd be the author, Dr. Tawfik Hamid, who has quite a bit of courage, it seems), so the existence of moderate Muslims is no longer "Mythical".
The Myth of the Moderate Muslim is not that they exist -- thats certainly a fact -- but that they're the majority. IMHO, they're not even a sizable minority.
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
10/24/2006 9:18 Comments ||
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#6
Especially if sizable is to equate to relevant, much less vocal or effective.
#7
There is a collection of references to Jews in the Koran here. The first few lump Jews, Christian, and Moslems together as believers.....
But there are some in boldface that are supposed to be negative, often talking about non-believers. Some of these I find confusing. Hmmmm
Posted by: Bobby ||
10/24/2006 9:22 Comments ||
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#8
I Must say that there are Useful Ediots in the world today..no disrespect to lotp,But She'He Needs to wake up to the reality..we're not living in a Polyana World..Islam Needs to be dealt with-FPeriod! non of this Nonsense and politically correctness..
I Say what i Kn ow to be correct..Like i said Yesterday,It More Humane to Kill a Few Dirty Killers than Allow them to Kill us All? What Wrong with that lotp? Yes,Some innocent People will also die,But better to see a Small amount die than Millions Right? or don't you see this?
Islam Is a Cancer ok? You're twice the Fool if you Don't see this? ok,Maybe some want to put their head in the Sand..
But lotp,They will Slit your Throat too! in war,Innocent get Killed..That the Nature of War..Since these Bastards have declared War on us Already,Let Fight Back with them with all our Might..
And the Way to win the war,Is to deal with the Root cause of Jihad! The root cause being the Koran..That where they get their Inspiration from..so let Give them What they understand,War,Before they Nuke us all?
Chris
UK
#9
I wanted to make a comment but I can't recall what I was going to say.
Would somebody please use photoshop to superimpose a burka on that nubile burnette featured in the Ranger Up Pro-Military t-shirt blogad? I find that woman distracting.
Posted by: Mark Z ||
10/24/2006 9:56 Comments ||
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#10
I still say 'moderate muslims' are a myth. Call them moderate pseudo-muslims or some other phrase. The Koran mandates Jihad. That is an inescapable fact. Moderation simply means denying the muslim faith, as taught in the Koran. To the extent that 'muslims' moderate their faith, they have also deviated from that faith.
America has many thousands of 'muslims' who would describe themselves as 'moderate'. My contention is that they may be many things, and many of those things may be good and praiseworthy. But they are not muslims. How do you moderate a faith whose fundamental foundations are inherently radical? You can't make a Rolls Royce out of a Yugo.
#11
I think only two things will defuse this conflict. First - alternate fuel sources that are so useful and cheap that even Russian and China prefer them to oil. That would dry up the source of money that funds jihad and the war would be over the very next day.
Second - moderating Islam with Sulafi or something like it - allowing the average Muslim a way to keep their faith and move it into the 19th Century. Most people just want to live life, be prospersous, raise kids and die peacefully in their sleep.
#12
But better to see a Small amount die than Millions
Your "small amount" is approximately 1/4 of all the humans on the planet.
Pfeh. It may come to that, but I'm not rushing to make it happen any sooner than it is clear it needs to.
Oh, and Chris -- before you start assuming I'm naive and a useful idiot, you might want to hang around Rantburg for a while and find out what my experience in the Middle East is and some hint about with whom I work today. But let's start with you. Tell me about your experience there and then I'll mention (again, to the boredom of regulars) my experience doing business (some of it defence related) in Israel, Saudi Arabia and other countries in the region. I do confess that I still have to use a grammar and dictionary when reading Arabic most of the time, tho.
#16
The question isn't whether we could carry on with the surivors after any all-out war. The question is whether we are at the point where we are justified in killing people because of a belief rather than because of actions they have taken or are plotting to take.
We can fight the jihadis without destroying the core of who we are. And I don't mean John Kerry / Democrat "fight". I mean fight to the death. And fight by surveillance, reconnaisance, covert ops when / where possible, open operations as needed.
What we do NOT need to do, nor are warranted in doing at this point IMO, is to round up and deport or kill people just because a bunch of fundamentalist Islamacists want to enforce 7th century norms on a modern world.
Look -- I understand the shock of meeting that mindset up close, whether via Islamacist web sites, propaganda videos or reading the Koran in translation. Been there, seen that. But it's a mistake to assume that those views hold for all muslims. They don't.
The war with the Islamacists has several dimensions. Their hatefilled preaching is as much aimed at the whole 21st century (TV, internet, global banking and investments, womens' rights) as at 'infidels' and 'apostates'. They are deadly serious in their intent to bring our civilization down and we should take the threat seriously.
But it's a mistake IMO to lump all muslims in with them. It's a mistake for several reasons. There are many muslims for whom the Koran is .... guidance .... rather than literal law and who dislike the fundamentalist preachers deeply.
Yes - the Islamacist movement is an existential challenge to the West and we have got to fight it, with the will to prevail over a long struggle.
But at this point, I do not believe it is either justified or wise to lump all who were raised muslim in the same category as that enemy.
#17
hey, at least you get called a useful idiot. I don't get that much credit
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/24/2006 12:43 Comments ||
Top||
#18
Lol, Frank. Meee Twooo.
lotp - We're a long long way from anything substantive - except defense. The Taliban and Saddam were purely defensive moves. IMHO. What has followed has been the stupidity of the jihadist, I believe, in adhering to the flypaper when it is a simply dumb move: they're facing our military. Smart move would be to attack the soft civilains in the US, not the Iraqi civilians. I am happy they aren't smart. Surely no one doubts that they could infiltrate the US, and should have long before now, via our open borders. Hell, we've just barely had Islam and Fascism connected, though it's as obvious as the sunrise.
Re defensive moves: The same will go for Iran, assuming that needed move ever arrives.
Sadly, as so many have said before, we will have to be hurt, at home, in quantity, again and again before anything offensive occurs.
I once hoped we would try a travel and technology quarantine - before stronger measures. But given the triangulation of several UNSC members, who can't even take North Korea seriously, I doubt we'll have that luxury.
So, unless I misunderstand half the posters here, we've dismissed / jumped any further half-measures, peaceful measures, and reached the offensive stage in our arguments. It makes sense to try to make sense of what we're doing now, extrapolate it to the big picture, and defend our civility and sanity in the process. In other words, I appreciate your position. But the writing is on the wall, IMHO: they won't let us end it there.
It will be several painful and costly years before the hard decision comes, and yet I do not doubt that it will come. They insist.
Sad.
On the bright side, perhaps the WWF people will accept those 1.25 Bn dead as a down payment. Sorry - that was awful. I'm so ashamed. I should have willingly sacrificed myself and my family for the greater good, rather than putting "Paid" to the WWF invoice with people who either want to kill me, support those who want to kill me, or don't care if I'm killed as long as they aren't bothered while they bang their heads 5x per day.
#19
Running out the door to give a presentation in the city, so I'll be brief-hopefully, I'll make it back before the thread closes for the day.
It is a life and death struggle-deadly serious, you are right about that, lotp.
Do we think we are going to get a neat little ultimatum from Islam about required fealty to the umma and faith so that we can change our course in time to do something about it? I don't think so-that "culture" is clever enough to shut up and wait it out until odds tip in their favor. Then, our opinion about "1/4 of the population" disappearing won't mean squat-we'll be the ones at risk of dying. And anyone who thinks they-whether it's just the crazy leadership or the entire passive/aggressive umma-won't push for a worldwide enforced caliphate upon pain of death, once they have majority power, has a poor understanding of what makes Islam tick. It is about submission and force, baby.
What I meant, wxjames, is that in the end, it is the survival of western civ that matters more than the numbers that die, and that, without a doubt, a choice to save lots of Muslims when that could mean the death of lots of westerners is at best self-defeating and worse, self-annihliating. It may mean more to them, but to us, the life of Muslims cannot mean more than our own lives.
#20
lotp, I think we NEED to have a dialog on whether Islam is a religion or a death cult clothed as a religion. We MUST define the movement as what it is and take the necessary action to end the jihad.
However, never has the human experiment been without serious leadership than today when the UN is a useless clusterfuck, and the US Congress has become a bloody street fight. There are people attempting to speak on this subject, but the MSM will not cover it, and most universities are so left, they can't pry open their brains enough to release a fart.
Once we determine that Islam is an organized random murder cult, we can make demands that 'moderates' separate themselves so we can remove the scum from the ponds. I can't forsee that happening, so I recommend preparation for civil chaos. In Europe first, then in the US if no changes are made to guarantee our safety.
#21
The blessed shall recline on jeweled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them
immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine (that will
neither pain their heads nor take away their reason); with fruits of their
own choice and flesh of fowls that they relish. And theirs shall be the darkeyed
houris, chaste as hidden pearls: a guerdon for their deeds. (Sura 56:15-24)
.
But moderating I-slam is useless. You may be successfull for time being, but the remaining ambers would start fires again, 's just a matter of time. There is a clause, catch 22, somewhere in their manifesto... you can bet that would happen.
I-slam has to go. If we can find the way to do it without anihilation of majority of its adherents (there is no doubt what we have to do regarding a minority of I-slam adherents), I am all for it.
#23
I'm sure we all agree that every individual has certain inalienable rights. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
However, if a man or woman believes it his or her duty to kill anyone who does not believe as they do, are they not then guilty before the fact ?
i.e."I believe it my duty to kill you, so you better kill me first."
Must he be holding a weapon for you to kill him in self-defense ? Is it not enough to know he is capable of wearing a hidden explosive, and practicing the 'religion' of death ?
Or, do we follow the PC model that only the government can take such action, and only then without profiling. Utter madness.
#24
However, if a man or woman believes it his or her duty to kill anyone who does not believe as they do, are they not then guilty before the fact ?
By that measure, some here are guilty of genocide.
Must he be holding a weapon for you to kill him in self-defense ? Is it not enough to know he is capable of wearing a hidden explosive, and practicing the 'religion' of death ?
I'm an NRA member and a gun owner. Is that enough for you to know to justify shooting me on sight -- or more conveniently, nuking the next NRA convention?
#28
lotp, are you a "splodey martyrdom" believer? No?
Wxjames, if I may do a bit of interpretation and skip academic chitchat, spake thus:
You are enering the mall for your saturday shopping with your family (a hubby and perhaps 2 kiddies). While at the middle of the mall, you notice a ME looking man whose forehead is sweating, despite of the mild temperatures afforded by the season. He is also wearing a long jacket and despite him being in mid 20s and his face being quite lean, he does look quite overweight.
A thought, a horrible suspicion would cross your mind. You have a concealed-carry license and can pull your gun in the matter of seconds.
The man may be sick and have a case of bloating caused by his sickness. Or he has a splodey belt wrapped aorund his torso and every precious second counts.
There are a LOT of moslems who are sticking their neck out for us in the Middle East, in, for example, the Iraqi Army. In spite of recruiting stations being blown up by Al Qaeda and/or Iranian stooges.
And there are a lot of perfectly western, even in appearance, leftists out there working to put the National back into Socialism, that would just as willingly cut those necks off, and call it a "people's revolution" against the imperialistic United States.
And they'd be just as happy to see you rant and rave about how the problem is Islam; terrorism (and leftism generally) enjoys practicing the "Let's You and Him Fight" strategy.
#32
The only thing every muslim is guilty of is creating and supporting an environment in which murderers can freely go about an otherwise normal life. That is a crime.
#33
lotp, are you a "splodey martyrdom" believer? No?
LOL - no, not hardly. Like I said above, I've seen the middle east at close hand. Have zero desire to live there or like that.
What I am is the wife of a retired US military officer. Someone who is strongly pro-defense and currently working to support our military defense of this country.
I'm a citizen who is deeply concerned about the internal rot in Western culture as well as the external threat of Islamicism (which IS a threat only because of that rot).
And I'm someone who believes that we can deal with this threat within our Constitutional principles.
And by that I don't mean a neutered, shackled Consitution which many on the left would like to impose. But neither do I mean a Constitution that is set aside lightly on the grounds that doing so would provide us an easy way out of a difficult challenge.
#34
Someone who is strongly pro-defense and currently working to support our military defense of this country.
As my husband also continues to do, by the way.
We have specific threats we need to deal with NOW. They include Iran's nuclear program and the infiltration of jihadis in cahoots with MS-13 and other quasi-insurgent groups across our borders.
Let's deal with them and let those muslims who just want to raise their kids and live a pious life alone unless/until they do something that is illegal. There are enough dangerous idiots out there to legitimately take on.
#36
Surely no one doubts that they could infiltrate the US, and should have long before now, via our open borders.
.com, I do doubt it. Much more than I doubt that they have not tried. I do believe we have not been attacked again thanks to the visible efforts of our troops around the world and the invisible efforts of our security services and various Americans who practice Islam and others who were reared in it who have no troth with the Islamofascists who are their enemies as well as yours and mine. They don't want to paint targets on their backs and have chosen anonymity for fear of what would happen to themselves or to relatives still in the Old Country.
Much of this war is being fought in dark ugly corners far worse than those of the cold war and just as we do not yet know or really appreciate what was done by the unsung heroes of that war, so we don't now know all that was done on our behalf by those of whom we know nothing. What I do not doubt is that it is not a coincident we have not suffered another successful attack in this country to date. If they could, they would.
#37
ĀUnfortunately, this resistance to peaceful teaching is not limited to fundamentalists. It is now at the level of the people.Ā
We can thank the good Doctor for making one thing clear, it is not just the imams who espouse jihad, this mind set has reached all the way down to the street.
While I welcome whatever way that avoids eradicating one quarter of the world's population, it cannot come at any significant cost to the West. Not in continued terrorist atrocities, not in even partial installation of sharia law and not in even remotely preferential treatment of Muslims, right down to publishing cartoons of Mohammed.
It is nearly impossible to envision how Islam will ever reach a reconciliation with the above three relatively mild constraints I have placed upon it. The intolerant and ascendant nature of Islam literally prohibits it.
We are confronted with 25% of the world's population wanting their faith to be 100% of the world's religion. That equation is wholly unacceptable. Equally unacceptable, however inevitable it continues to seem, is having to tolerate even one more atrocity anywhere in the world, but most especially here on American soil. It is why I continue to advocate a proactive stance as the only sure way of preventing another such attack.
I think only two things will defuse this conflict. First - alternate fuel sources that are so useful and cheap that even Russian and China prefer them to oil. That would dry up the source of money that funds jihad and the war would be over the very next day.
anon, Russia has far too much at stake in keeping oil usage maximized to ever show the least interest in shutting down a principal revenue generating segment of its natural resources. China is so incredibly self-serving that we would have to invent, industrialize and mass produce some such alternative and then give it to them for free, before they would go through the least expense or effort involved with converting their economy away from oil.
Second - moderating Islam with Sulafi or something like it - allowing the average Muslim a way to keep their faith and move it into the 19th Century. Most people just want to live life, be prospersous, raise kids and die peacefully in their sleep.
This is a key factor and I have continuously called for Islam's reformation. When you consider that apostasy is punishable by death, what then are the chances for a major revision of the Koran's text? Add in how the most dominant strains of Islam are extremely fundamentalist in nature and the chances of reform diminish just that much more. Finally, when you examine the self-interest of the extremists and the loss of control they would experience should Islam become pacified, there is an even more dramatic decline in the likelihood for internally driven reform. Now, incorporate the immense prestige that the Saudis derive from being gatekeepers for the haj and their exceptionally unhealthy symbiosis with Wahhabism and the odds of IslamĀs reform decrease exponentially.
Furthermore, the Islamic clergy preaches against prosperity, just as it preaches against democracy. Individual wealth interferes with jihad by enhancing worldly comfort which distracts adherents from their spiritual mission. Democracy is seen as complete and total anathema to Islam because, in their eyes, it makes the word of man have equal power to the word of God. This is central in getting Islam to abandon its theocratic aspirations. Its lust for theocracy is precisely what renders Islam a political ideology. Such mainstream opposition to democracy renders any hope of reformation stillborn.
If there is no reformation, Islam remains a virulent threat to Western civilization and one that must not just be contained but neutralized. Containment will not prevent the MME (Muslim Middle East) from developing nuclear weapons. Once they have acquired same it is only a matter of time before they deploy them against the West. Thus, containment or quarantine is not effective.
This prunes down the decision tree quite significantly. The remaining options are military conquest of al MME countries in order to quell Islamic ascendancy. Physically crippling them by destroying their infrastructure to delay the onset of any threat phase. Or, finally, simply eradicating this violent threat through nuclear holocaust. This is not genocide as no one particular ethnicity or race of people is involved. Such a measure is based upon the continuous threat represented by a violent religion that refuses to reform its own calls for global domination.
As Jules so aptly summarizes:
... in the end, it is the survival of western civ that matters more than the numbers that die, and that, without a doubt, a choice to save lots of Muslims when that could mean the death of lots of westerners is at best self-defeating and worse, self-annihliating. It may mean more to them, but to us, the life of Muslims cannot mean more than our own lives.
Islam's intransigence must make up our own minds. Its inability and abject refusal to coexist with other cultures must surely spell its doom. Its odds of self-reformation are so remote that we cannot possibly rely upon such a dim prospect. This is why I continue to suggest that we impose demands for religious freedom in MME countries and give them two or three years to do so. If they refuse to permit freedom of religion, then that must be interpreted as the adoption of politically ideological status and thereafter be dealt with accordingly.
If Iran was not so hell bent on acquiring nuclear weapons, the time line for all of this might be more relaxed. Such is not the case and it is one of the factors that compels me to advocate much stronger measures to ensure our survival, as in the proscription of Islam in America.
#38
Who knows? There are so many things you've left out of the scenario that would factor into a decision like that.
Two principles I hold onto WRT my weapons.
First, that I will shoot to defend myself and my family when I have reasonable grounds to believe their lives are threatened.
Second, that I am morally and ethically and legally responsible for the decision I make to do so, including if I am wrong in my judgement or if I wound or kill bystanders to do so.
#41
I'm a citizen who is deeply concerned about the internal rot in Western culture as well as the external threat of Islamicism (which IS a threat only because of that rot).
Attributing much of Islam's actual threat to America's domestic political dissent or appeasement is a tremendous oversight. Look at France, whose appeasement of Islam knows no bounds. They are being taken apart at the seams.
Islam will seek global domination regardless of whether other countries experience internal division or not.
I'd appreciate it if you clarified that statement, lotp.
There's something there, alright. We've had some solid successes in the prevention arena. Some of it first-rate work, and some more of that pure dumb luck we're apparently blessed with.
But I don't think we've stopped them all from infiltrating, unless they're all as dumb as I posited in another post, lol. Unfortunately, some probably aren't. I look at the stats regards Mexicans coming across the border - and the probably accurate estimates that we're only grabbing a minor percentage of those who come.
The same must be true of the jihadis - especially since they've got the funds to buy the best coyotes around - and even the services of the drug cartels, who obviously have the motivation and means to get their mules across much of the time. What other "cargo" could've crossed? Just about anything, if you take into account the sophisticated tunnels with hard-pack floors that were in operation for years before discovery.
So I think some are here. Fewer than would be the case if our enemy was smart, but more than you seem willing to accept. I'll split the difference with you. I dread to think what they brought in with them. Just my take.
#43
Islam will seek global domination regardless of whether other countries experience internal division or not.
I would amend that to "Islamacists ...."
Yes, of course they will. The question is, under what conditions would they have a hope of prevailing?
And the answer is, only if the West were too decadent or divided to whomp them upside the head the first time they tried it, and again and again as necessary.
It was foreseeable that there would be an attempt at a Ba'athist insurgency in Iraq - their heros the Nazis tried it too. The mess in Iraq is due in part to the not so covert encouragement they were given by the left here and in Europe.
It was foreseeable that people from tribal cultures that in most cases are illiterate would try to bring old, barbaric customs with them when the immigrated. They are a cultural threat because they were not told, in no uncertain terms backed up by action, that such behavior is not acceptable in Paris, in Malmo, etc.
Ahmadinajad thinks Allah will help him establish the Caliphate because the Russians, French and the Germans under Schroeder -- not to mention the Chinese -- have been helping him try to do just that.
The list goes on and on.
Of course Islamacists would push for what they can grab. Children are self-centered, dogs pee on the carpet, teenaged boys are potential hooligans, UNLESS those behaviors are corrected with consistency and firmness. When they are, children mature, teenaged boys grow into responsible men and dogs adapt amazingly well into human households.
#45
Jack Kelley of USA Today once reported at a school run by Hamas, he saw a youth of eleven years give a report to his class:
"I will make my body a bomb," said the boy, "that will blast the flesh of Zionists, the sons of pigs and monkeys. . . . I will tear their bodies into little pieces and will cause them more pain than they will ever know." His classmates shouted in response, "Allah Akhbar," [God is great] and his teacher shouted, "May the virgins give you pleasure."
#47
Who knows? There are so many things you've left out of the scenario that would factor into a decision like that.
It's just that, you saw the man a second ago right smack in the middle of the mall and you don't have any additional info. Except that an explosion may kill somewhere in the vicinity of 300 hundred people, given the layout of the mall.
Well, I know it's tough. The man is not a splodey, at least not in the sense of current understanding.
It happens 4 years from now after some lab in ME manages to weaponize certain strain of yersinia pestis. If you shoot him now, about 50% of 1000 people that came to a closer contact with the man would die in 4 days. The splater from the bullet impact will land on you and your chances of survival will shrink to 0.
If you do not shoot him, he'll have 3 days to infect about 25,000 people and based on the mortality rate, about 12,000 would die in 4 days. You'll be amongst the survivors.
Second, that I am morally and ethically and legally responsible for the decision I make to do so, including if I am wrong in my judgement or if I wound or kill bystanders to do so.
Of course you are. That's a given and there is no dispute about it.
#48
Well, I can work that math IF I know he's infected. Or I can work that math based on an assumed probability distribution of the likelihood he's infected.
The point is, of course, that I don't know. And your scenario doesn't say whether the militarization of the bio threat is known to me to have (most likely or certainly) happened, whether there have been previous successful or unsuccessful attempts at the walking-plague attack, whether we in fact might be able to treat or protect against infection, whether other attacks of other kinds have happened here.
Really, IMO those decisions are a function of all of those issues and more. I can certainly dream up all sorts of potential danger scenarios myself and I can war game them too.
That and $3.00 will buy coffee at Starbucks.
Sorry, I was influenced at an impressionable age by the great Herman Kahn, who insisted we look at nuclear response/attack scenarios across a range of likelihoods and options.
Are we facing real threats? Of course. Can a civilization be brought down by barbarians? You betcha it can -- and we're in danger of having just that happen to the West. No disagreement there.
The question is what to do about it. Let's start with the known, well-locatable threat of the Iranian nuclear program and of their funding of Hamas and Hezb'allah alike, in Iraq, in Lebanon, in south America and seeking to cross our borders.
Let's monitor and interdict the hatepreaching that the Saudis are funding here. Splash it all over the front pages of newspapers, on TV, on the Internet. Let the bulk of Americans see what is being promulgated in *some* mosques.
There's lots we can do, but the most important one is to rally a strong will across the populace to deal with the threats that are immediate and real. Trying to deport all muslims will have the exact opposite effect unless and until there is clear evidence that the majority of muslims living here -- many of whom are law abiding citizens -- have turned to jihad.
I used to make that distinction. After viewing the "Obsession" video, I no longer think it is applicable. Too much of the Muslim world is, if not overtly cheering on jihadists, silently awaiting their success and doing little if anything to stop them.
The question is, under what conditions would they have a hope of prevailing?
I think that one critical such condition is the refusal to label unreformed Islam a political ideology. Theocracy is not a religion and it remains a central tenet of Islam. Until this abjectly political component is wholly repudiated, Islam remains a political force.
I'll agree that lack of concensus among and within Western nations regarding the current threat presented by Islam also plays into this, but our internal divisions are not the real danger. Islam alone is responsible for its hostility. Any internal divisions or lack of cohesion in the West does not alleviate Islam's responsibility to reform itself. We cannot blame ourselves for the fact that Islam is incompatible with the entire world.
And the answer is, only if the West were too decadent or divided to whomp them upside the head the first time they tried it, and again and again as necessary.
I'll offer that whatever "whomping" that is being done is insufficient disincentive for Islam to reform or retreat. What then should we do?
I have no problem with unilateral action. It will probably prove necessary, especially in light of Europe's incessant dithering. The love taps we have been doleing out so far have been of marginal use. The flypaper effect is probably one of the biggest benefits and it is effective only because of the profound stupidity of our enemy.
Much more significant measures must be taken. If we do not seek to begin girdling Islam at its trunk, then it may well prove useful to stop its fruit from seeding our own lands. Removal of Muslims from American soil and banning the practice of Islam would largely attain that objective.
If enough countries return "Westernized" Muslims to their places of origin, perhaps then they may finally understand that they must take back their home countries by force in order to displace these autocrats and religious tyrants. If they cannot, then they are welcome to enjoy their Islamic utopias and witness firsthand the joys of sharia law.
Repatriating Muslims who have witnessed the benisons of true freedom may be one of the few innoculations that will achieve actual reformation of Islam. Until then, I still feel as though we harbor an immense fifth column within our borders.
Taqqiya makes it utterly impossible to sort out who is and who is not of danger. Banning the hijab and burqa will be a first step in identifying the stupid extremists. Catching the smart ones will still pose many more problems. This is why I feel that mass deportation may be one of the few alternatives. Let them long for freedom back on their home turf. Maybe then they will import it themselves.
I'm not interested in assigning lofty statements of generic responsibility. I'm interested in the choices we make here in the US and I want those choices to be tied to behaviors, as the principles of our rule by law have demanded for centuries.
And I will repeat one last time that there is a difference between islam and islamacists. Not in some countries, perhaps, but definitely HERE. Which is the country from which many of you wish to expel (or worse) all muslims.
I'm done with this topic here at RB for a good while. But as I leave it, I will respeat one last time my other point on this issue:
Those here who persist in refusing to see Islam as a religion or who identify it only with the Islamacist fundamentalists and/or the cynical thugs of Palestine are choosing to ignore its attraction for many converts in the West. Don't be surprised if, having closed your eyes, you are blind to the direction from which danger arises.
#51
I think GolfBravoUSMC points out an important part of the puzzle. The problem seeds itself in the minds of its followers at a very early age. The youth in MME countries are being bred to continue the problem. Perhaps a new approach to attract the next generation of jihadis away from extremism may not be a bad idea.
The problem with this is that in order for the wound to heal it must be exposed to the open air, which is doubtful to happen any time soon.
Just as amish children are bred to forgive and live life at peace, extremist muslim children are bred as weapons against infidels and apostates.
#53
You are enering the mall for your saturday shopping with your family (a hubby and perhaps 2 kiddies). While at the middle of the mall, you notice a ME looking man whose forehead is sweating, despite of the mild temperatures afforded by the season. He is also wearing a long jacket and despite him being in mid 20s and his face being quite lean, he does look quite overweight.
You make eye contact. Although he is some distance away, you can just barely read his lips as he whispers "Allah Akbar". He gives you a nervous smile. Adrenaline kicks in. You pull out your full-auto Glock and shred the guy to pieces. What remains of him falls to the ground. Silence. You think to yourself, "it's over, we're all safe."
You feel something hit you just before you go flying through the air and everything goes black. You wake up. You don't know where you are. You see people but aren't sure who they are. You ask someone "what happened?" Someone answers, "The all-American-looking guy standing next to you had a bomb in his knapsack. You killed the wrong guy. Congrats."
Posted by: Papa Smurf ||
10/24/2006 16:59 Comments ||
Top||
#54
Re #49: "Repatriating Muslims who have witnessed the benisons of true freedom..."
I ask you, oxymoron or just moron?
#55
Or maybe the guy with a bomb is a Marxist who thinks he's a "rationalist" because he worships Lenin, Mao, and Che' instead of some traditional deity.
#56
bravo lopt. I will take it one step further and point out that there is a fine line between good and evil. What makes us different, better and will assure our victory in the end is our willingness to show mercy whenever we can.
#58
So I think some are here. Fewer than would be the case if our enemy was smart, but more than you seem willing to accept. I'll split the difference with you. I dread to think what they brought in with them. Just my take.
I'll buy some of that, especially about how smart the enemy is. But the ones who are here are either sleepers, or those who got here and turned themselves in or were turned. I suspect those who are here and have tried to get local recruits have gotten turned in with surprising regularity and speed. So much so that inspite of the ease of getting them into the country, the senior command of al-Q no longer sends them over in any volume. As the article I posted yesterday noted the US is sterile ground for Islamofascists. Even the number sent into Euro countries and successful at attacks is really pretty small when you think about it.
The law enforcement part may be working pretty well with the native/immigrant community to identify the wackos. But think about it. In whose interest is it to see more terrorism in the US? Certainly not the immigrant community who came here to be classic immigrants. Not the Saudis who know we can put a trail together pretty quickly that inevitably leads back to their money. They don't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs and drives the F-15s. Not Perv and the ISI, they know it would get back to them and we'd take the nukes and kill lots of them. So nobody but binny in his cave really benefits from terrs coming to the US.
That's why they all go to Iraq and Lebanon. Little training training required and lots of local support infrastructure. Move the reconquista forward a little bit now into al-Andalus, Kosovo. Save the big one for last after they've gotten more powerful and put Europe into dhimmi status.
#59
So long as American Muslims do not raise more of a stink about their opposition to and universal condemnation of international terrorism, I'd say that they are the real morons. They put their own selves at risk by not clearly distinguishing themselves from those who would do us harm.
To paraphrase that Spanish journalist:
After a while silence is no longer consent. Silence is a lie.
American Muslims and their Thundering Silence in the face of atrocity after atrocity begin to undermine the validity of their place in our society. Their collective lack of response begins to resemble tacit support for terrorism more than anything else.
When a given group of people have a bunch of skunks in their midst and still insist upon their right to wear black clothing with broad white stripes, don't be too surprised if others tire of the stench trying to sort them all out.
On a final note; lotp, I have no doubt that you are an extremely intelligent woman. Given that, it astounds me that you still rise to defend a putative religion that globally enforces Abject Gender Apartheid. I refuse to believe that you can sustain cognitive sufficient cognitive dissonance to play at moral relativism. Consequently, I'm at a loss to understand your position. If you've honestly checked out of this thread for the day, please do not feel compelled to respond to this. I've posted this question before and I'll happily post it again at another eppropriate time. I do not mean this as some sort of parting (or provoking) shot to drag you back into this discussion (I refuse to play those sort of games). What I do hope is that you will consider your position on this in order that we might exchange ideas about it later on.
#61
"They put their own selves at risk by not clearly distinguishing themselves from those who would do us harm."
It is you, Zenster, who cannot and will not distinguish them from those who would do us harm. You would "repatriate" all for the evil intent of a few. I know three Muslim families and there is not a person among them that I fear. I'm also not clear on where you're going to "repatriate" them to, since many of them were born and raised in the U.S. and the U.K. What's next with you, Zenster? Putting them all on trains to work camps and gas chambers? A "final solution"? Get a life.
#62
Not relativism. I'm not DEFENDING Islam. I'm working from personal experience both with the Saudis pause to edit what I say and with US citizens who are muslim, moderate and peaceful.
In other words, I'm seeing the full range of what is covered by "Islam". I'm fully aware of the percentages involved, especially overseas. I know what Hamas is engendering in their children, and how they will pay for it.
As for editing, nobeard, the answer is that botched eye surgery leaves me with poor vision and sometimes I either mistype or click before I mean to. Occasionally I change that if I see it right away. If I didn't have the privilege of doing that I'd just be posting a lot more correction comments.
#63
That's an interesting take, NS. I sure hope like heel that you're right.
# 50: Islam alone is responsible for its hostility
I'm not interested in assigning lofty statements of generic responsibility.
I am interested in getting it crystal clear to this world why and how Islam is bringing down potential holocaust on its own head. There ain't nothing "lofty" about it. Holding the West responsible for the fact that Islam adheres to a hostile and violent doctrine of global domination is nothing more than blaming the victim. I'm confident that all of us here have had enough of that bullshit.
#67
When you think moderate moslem do not think in comparison to moderate Christian. That is an Apple to Oranges comparison. The moderate is modifying the second word, Moslim.
A more accurate way to view the term is think about the term "moderate sociopath".
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/24/2006 18:09 Comments ||
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#70
It is you, Zenster, who cannot and will not distinguish them from those who would do us harm.
Where is it written that America is obliged to winnow through this nation's or this world's Muslim population in order to find the psychotics hiding and being hidden in their midst? You're saying that potential rape victims are responsible for going out and identifying potential perptrators before the fact. If someone is living with a person who goes on and on about raping women and does nothing to get them taken into custody, that's being an accomplice.
Somewhere in America, there are tens of thousands of Muslims who are hearing their imams preach hatred and genocide each and every Friday without lifting a finger to stop it. Are they totally innocent of any wrongdoing?
You would "repatriate" all for the evil intent of a few.
It's not a few. If even only some 10-20% of Muslims world-wide are jihadist, that equals the population of the entire United States. Only if those "all" continue to remain inert in the face of crimes against humanity being preached and commited in their name. Why is there not an American Muslim movement to reform Islam and rewrite the Koran? I can comprehend how that might be difficult in other Islamic hell holes, but here, with the protection of law enforcement, there is still bupkus being done by Muslims to reframe what remains a violent and hostile ideology.
I know three Muslim families and there is not a person among them that I fear. I'm also not clear on where you're going to "repatriate" them to, since many of them were born and raised in the U.S. and the U.K. What's next with you, Zenster? Putting them all on trains to work camps and gas chambers? A "final solution"?
Nice try. I wonder if you can even remember how it's Islam that has avowed to finish Hitler's job of killing all the Jews. Of course, this in no way prevents you from bypassing the sequence of events I have posited. I'd rather see the practice of Islam banished in America if, given the chance to reform and install religious freedom, the MME nations refuse to do so.
Care to address that or are you just trying to tar me by short-circuiting my arguments?
Like Darrell I know moderate Muslims who are US citizens. They work, they educate their kids and contribute to the society. Some are serving in uniform -- including honorably in our current combat zones. It's offensive and simply inaccurate to lump them in with the jihadis.
Pfeh. Enough from me. Go pant all you want and drool at the thought of a Final Solution.
The Internet is for porn, for sure. Pity so much of it has nothing to do with sex.
#72
When they can't have booze then its Hash and opium morphine heroin LSD and whatever..
Not the drug shooting galleries our Marines found all over Fallujha where the brave Jihadist hang out.
Consider how assassin is derived from the root word Hashishian a cult of jihadist killers who smoked hashish all day and were hired killers to pay for it.... A nice lovely Islamic tradition.
So one of the drivers of Jihad has to be encouragement of drug us and targeted amoral killing by young men.
#74
Where is the pressure for islamic reformation going to come from? The multi-cultis in the west won't permit it. It will be branded cultural imperialism to moment it is tried. I agree that American muslims and those in Europe who are brave should lead this program, but I think it is just a pipe dream. When no reformation occurs and the attacks on the west intensify, then the call for final solution-type tactics will inevitabley increase.
#75
"You're saying that potential rape victims are responsible for going out and identifying potential perptrators before the fact."
No, but you're saying you'd deport all males because some may rape. Don't put words in my mouth, Zenster. You already get a fairly big share of the bandwidth.
#76
No, but you're saying you'd deport all males because some may rape.
I just knew you'd try that bit of specious garbage. Not all men are Muslims. Not all men in America subscribe to a philosophy that says women should have sex violently forced upon them.
All American Muslims do subscribe to a religion that advocates the forcible overthrown of host countries world-wide and the installation of sharia law therein. By that very act, they render themselves suspect. This is not "guilty until proven innocent". This is guilt by direct association with known seditious elements who pose a grave danger to our nation.
If you are unable to see the difference, you are blind.
As usual, you've yet to address the intermediate steps I've proposed in an effort to tar me as an extremist. When you get around to doing some actual heavy lifting, please let me know.
As always, it's funny how you wage total war on me while giving a pass to others right here in this thread that espouse even more extreme views. Go ahead, come back in and post how I "want to kill them all" and trash like that. Either you've read my posts where I declare how desirable it would be to avoid any needless loss of human life and have purposefully chosen to ignore that, or you are just being unethical.
#78
Where is the pressure for islamic reformation going to come from?
It has to come from Muslims who are willing to rehabilitate their faith. No one else can do it for them. What we can do is apply pressure on Muslims, world-wide to make life miserable for them should they choose to ignore our pointed suggestions. Unfortunately, this is a far more likely outcome. Few Muslims undestand how urgent the need is to begin this task. Far too many are either complacent or unwilling to go against the fundamentalist grain and risk being branded apostates.
That these dissatisfied Muslims can somehow sequester their unhappiness and justify remaining as part of an obviously flawed creed shows that there is a lack of genuine will or resolve to reclaim Islam from the jihadists. If that is the case, they have no right to complain when we come around to dismantle it.
#80
Where is it written that America is obliged to winnow through this nation's or this world's Muslim population in order to find the psychotics hiding and being hidden in their midst? You're saying that potential rape victims are responsible for going out and identifying potential perptrators before the fact. If someone is living with a person who goes on and on about raping women and does nothing to get them taken into custody, that's being an accomplice.
Exactly!
Based on my own personal experiences and contact with Muslims, the ones that "lotp" refers to are a very tiny fraction of the Muslim population.
We can ill afford to try and winnow them out. I say punish the lot collectively. Just like they do us. Also, we cannot afford a decades long conflict, it only weakens us and increases the likelyhood of our defeat.
Also, there was a discussion a few days ago, someone said Islam was not a religion, and a number of folks seemed to rush to Islams defense.
Whether you consider Islam a religion or not, you need to de-legitimize Islam by denying it legitimacy. It is basically the same tactic used by the left, repeat something often enough and it becomes a defacto truth.
That is what I do. Whenever the topic of Islam arises, I declare it illegimate, and then I make very sound arguments for that position by comparing it to other religions. The seeds of doubt vis-a-vis Islam must be planted and nurtured if we are to win this thing. I could not care less about some miniscule number of decent Muslims that are caught up in the destruction.
Islam has to go. Whatever it takes. Some of us are ready, and some still want to wring their hands.
#82
To FS6724 and his ilk,
If that's how you think then you are in the minority! You will lose! Why? Because people like you have always lost throughout history!
Better start your own backyard nuke program soon, dude. You're gonna need it.
Posted by: Papa Smurf ||
10/24/2006 21:42 Comments ||
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#83
Twoby four, have you ever been placed in that situation?
#86
"I wanted to make a comment but I can't recall what I was going to say. Would somebody please use photoshop to superimpose a burka on that nubile brunette featured in the Ranger Up Pro-Military t-shirt blogad? I find that woman distracting."
Nice to hear I'm not the only one who's had trouble concentrating since she showed up...
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/24/2006 22:22 Comments ||
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#87
Please, no Photoshop burka for the lovely young lady. She is a pleasant distraction.
#88
If that's how you think then you are in the minority! You will lose! Why? Because people like you have always lost throughout history!
It isn't necessary to kill every Muslim on the planet to end Islam. It might take killing a whole bunch of them, but not all. By taking the steps to strip Islam of its legitimacy and all that goes with it, we can make it impossible for Muslims to practice their death cult outside of Muslim lands.
Basically, we isolate them in society, economically, etc. etc. Cut off trade, end immigration, bottle them up in their own lands and keep them there, by force if necessary. Islam will die on its own then.
One way or another though, Islam must be put down. Even ex-Muslims that have left the faith agree.
The population of the US is 300,000,000. The population of the EU is what, about 450,000,000? So 750,000,000-not the 1 billion figure of Muslims worldwide-but still a pretty big chunk of the world's population.
Which Muslim leaders-not the umma, but the people with the actual power to determine yes or no-will decide that, in a battle between the East and the West, fighting for Islam's supremacy isn't worth the destruction of 1/4 of the world's population? Just askin'. I can't think of one, were that the actual choice. I have no reason to believe that Muslim-led states will come down on the side of moderate reason, because the world seems to be suffering from a lack of moderate-Muslim-led states. Even Jordan, often touted as the moderate state, turns a blind eye to the murder of female citizens because they date or have sex before marriage (honor killings), which is against the law of Islam. Who could call that state-sanctioned murder moderate?
I appreciate, lotp, that you are not a person to promote use of nuclear weapons lightly. I am not necessarily, either. I think the question should be about why a weapon can or can't be used; the nature of the weapon is a tactical concern. Is a nuclear weapon less acceptable than a large chemical or biological weapon?
Unfortunately, we can't say that MAD self-control (mutually assured destruction) has meaning in a community which so idolizes self-martyrdom for the glory of a blood-thirsty god. If they are not moved by self-restraint and we are bound by self-restraint, how do you see the struggle ending?
The existential dilemma seems to be:
We won't use whatever means necessary to be the victors because it would mean losing our values. However, our opponents are not bound by these same values and are arguably willing to use those means-those weapons. Because of the realer risk of attack by their more serious weapons, Islam in effect outpowers the US. When we are outpowered by Islamism, what makes us think our values will remain supreme? Without conviction to do what is necessary to remain victorious, the result for us could be loss of life AND loss of values. At what point do we switch from waiting it out to confronting a threat? Will conventional attacks on friends or ourselves be enough or will it take a nuclear strike from them on us to make us concede we can use the "baddy" weapons? Or could the slow, steady erosion of our values occur merely by multiple mini-appeasements?
I like Tancredo's off the cuff proposal (to be used as an ENFORCED restraint on Islam): attack any western country, be prepared for attacks on your holy sites. There are plenty to chose from; we can pick them off one by one or do it in one fell swoop. We need to cause Islamists to fear aggressive movements against the West.
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/24/2006 22:34 Comments ||
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#91
It isn't necessary to kill every Muslim on the planet to end Islam. It might take killing a whole bunch of them, but not all. By taking the steps to strip Islam of its legitimacy and all that goes with it, we can make it impossible for Muslims to practice their death cult outside of Muslim lands.
Basically, we isolate them in society, economically, etc. etc. Cut off trade, end immigration, bottle them up in their own lands and keep them there, by force if necessary. Islam will die on its own then.
One way or another though, Islam must be put down. Even ex-Muslims that have left the faith agree.
It'll take a lot _more_ dead Americans with people like you turning this war into WW1-but-fought-against-a-billion or so people, some of whom have nuclear weapons, than if we try the war we're fighting now.
How many Americans do you want to get killed in your lust to drive the Northern Alliance or the Iraqi Army (both of whom are under much greater threat from the extremists) into the waiting arms of Zawahiri and Pervez Musharraff?
You know, I thought Sun Tzu said that one is supposed to attack your _enemy's_ plans and alliances, to divide them, to not fight the people you don't have to.
And not to attack _your own_ alliances, betray your allies, throw out your own plans...
#92
Which Muslim leaders-not the umma, but the people with the actual power to determine yes or no-will decide that, in a battle between the East and the West, fighting for Islam's supremacy isn't worth the destruction of 1/4 of the world's population?
Hell, they may not care about their own populations, but they do care about their villas. Just a thought.
#93
Smurf, I just see you trolling around in your blue helmet. LOL!
Funny thing, neither FS6724, nor I were talking about nukes, but fancy that, you are.
There may be nukes flying during the conflict, but if that can be avoided, I am all for it. Unfortunately, our current pussyfooting makes the flying nukes rather a predictable feature.
Read three conjectures to get a bit of familiarity with some concepts in that regard.
I can't speak for FS6724, but as I am concerned, there is a whole range of means how to achieve relegating Islam to the dustbin of history. And done it has to be, make no mistake about it.
#94
Pappy, no, at least not in that scope, experienced a situation in which I had to make a quick decision many decades ago where some lives were at stake, but then, these were rather tame times in comparison... I know that I may be in very similar situation one day.
My point was not to pry on lotp, but rather to introduce a scenario in which many of us may be a chance participant.
#95
#92-I was referring to the destruction of OUR 1/4 population, not theirs. That would be your neighbors and family and mine, AS. Ok if they all die?
What if Iraq's alliance with the US and coalition is not as strong as Muslim fealty to the supremacy of Islam?
#96
The whole problem is that you don't have no PS2 or X-box going there. Not only that, the Bushitler admin is takerway all frisbee. That's the problem. You wanna know why they hate you? Look no closer than your radiator gaskets. Goddamn freepers. Chainey has shed more blood than Osama in the last 9 months.
/Can you deny it?
//Didn't think so.
///It's fun to troll. :)
#97
Those who argue that Islam should be politically tolerated in the USA because it's a religion are dropping two essentials:
- when the Founding Fathers thought of religion they knew of the Judeo-Christian strands that teach universal love, strict honesty, and equality of souls
- Islam teaches collective hatred, murder, lies, and slavery
I'm not willing to tolerate moderation in murder, dishonesty, or slavery. Even if it wears a tag screaming "RELIGION OF PEACE" while it preaches total submission and promotes mass-murder.
If there are misguided souls who belive they are Moslem but do not adhere to the Koranic death cult, they need to find a new path. We don't need to sacrifice ourselves, our children, and the entire Western world to their mistaken understanding of what Islam stands for.
#98
I like Tancredo's off the cuff proposal (to be used as an ENFORCED restraint on Islam): attack any western country, be prepared for attacks on your holy sites. There are plenty to chose from; we can pick them off one by one or do it in one fell swoop. We need to cause Islamists to fear aggressive movements against the West.
This is what I proposed years ago when I first arrived here. Hold the shrines hostage with a retaliation in kind program. Either that, or physically take them hostage and ruin the haj whenever there is another atrocity.
Funny how it's never the imam's sons or daughters that go boom. Perish the thought that an imam might have the courage of his own convictions and wear the belt himself. Unfortunately, our enemies are too fucking stupid to even realize this and step up to the plate in endless succession.
We must begin decapping Islam's jihadist clerics. Just offing the following key players would cause a sea change in how Islamic terrorism is conducted:
Abu Bakr Bashir, Osama bin Laden, Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi, Moqtada Sadr, mullah Krekkar, Mawlawi Dadullah, Kahled Meshaal, Ahmad Abu Laban, Hassan Nasrallah, Anjem Choudary, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Seyed Ali Khamenei.
We have to make all of these maggots extremely cautious about showing their faces in public or railing on about "death to America". Who gives a rip if they call us the Great Satan? Just so long as they are scared shitless every time a car backfires, we'll have done our job.
#99
#92-I was referring to the destruction of OUR 1/4 population, not theirs. That would be your neighbors and family and mine, AS. Ok if they all die?
And if I don't do what you suggest _right now_ they're all gonna die?
What if Iraq's alliance with the US and coalition is not as strong as Muslim fealty to the supremacy of Islam?
Maybe you ought to send the Iraqi Army and the extremists fighting against them whatever memo you got that from first. They're suffering many more casualties fighting the terrorists than the US Army is.
#101
I'm not willing to tolerate moderation in murder, dishonesty, or slavery. Even if it wears a tag screaming "RELIGION OF PEACE" while it preaches total submission and promotes mass-murder.
Well said, Kalle. Add to that list: institutionalized abuse of women plus Abject Gender Apartheid and Islam's value to this world is lower than a snake's belly full of buckshot.
#102
Abdominal Snowman, please permit me to ask you these questions.
1): Can you forsee an unrestrained Islam abandoning its quest for the imposition of global sharia law?
2): Can you imagine that Islam will reform itself in the absence of external compulsion?
3): Are you willing to bet that Islam will not commit any further atrocities?
4): Would you be willing to say that Islam will not use nuclear weapons against the West?
All my answers come up no. Islam will bring its destruction upon itself. The only thing in question is when. How much mayhem and slaughter are you willing to endure before resorting to some sort of disincentive or deterrent measures? I say we begin them now, starting with hunter-killer teams, crushing terrorist infrastructure, choking of terrorism's financiers and demanding that all MME countries institute genuine freedom of religion (not Afghanistan's facsimile thereof).
#105
All I'd add to that, Kalle, is that in the absence of MME (Muslim Middle East) nations actually adopting genuine freedom of religion, we should then ban Islam throughout the West. Reciprocity must be the new law.
#106
The parallel activities need to include: pumping oil where WE have it, building nuclear power plants, massively subsidizing research into energy sources and modes of energy transmission, as well as making war bonds available to the public. And executing traitors.
I want to be able to finance new carrier battle groups. Beyond what small amount Congress chooses to grab from my taxes.
#107
It'll take a lot _more_ dead Americans with people like you turning this war into WW1-but-fought-against-a-billion or so people, some of whom have nuclear weapons, than if we try the war we're fighting now.
Huh? You're way off base, not to mention reading impaired. I have no problem with killing as many Muslims as needed, in as cost effective manner as needed. I just don't think it will be necessary to kill off all of them. Attrit their population by half or more, and the fire will leave them.
Of course, if I am wrong, we can just finish the job and it would not bother me. Settle down there sparky, you have some kind of parity error in your reading and comprehension skills.
#108
"And if I don't do what you suggest _right now_ they're all gonna die?"
Not at all. If risking it makes you feel safer and happier, I won't try to talk you out of it. If I'm wrong, we all win. If I'm right, it's your family and friends-no skin off my teeth. Aim for what matters to you.
The closest concept the West has to that of Zen is the German word "gestalt". Reduce a house to its separate components of wood, wires, pipes, bricks and nails. Looking at the pile of materials, you are seeing the house, but you are not seeing the house as it was in its assembled state. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
This is part of Zen. It is a philosophy that believes in the charismatic imperfection of man, that mankind's mind is perfectable and represents more than just the sum of its component parts. Zen prescribes meditation and comtemplation of koans or conundrums ("the sound of one hand clapping"), and studying with masters to achieve this enlightenment.
I like Zen for its peaceful nature, cheerful assessment of man's worth and the sometimes exhilirating challenges it can pose to the human mind in fully appreciating our own existence.
Posted by: Papa Smurf ||
10/24/2006 23:50 Comments ||
Top||
#118
Naw, I just think Papa Smurf's out of his depth and unable to provide any actual insight, just criticism and condemnation. Maybe some long line fishing from underneath a bridge.
Waders required for this puff-love piece. I've refrained form snarking every frickin' line cuz, well, it's not necessary - it is a self-snarking piece of dandelion fluff.
TAMPA - For Denise Sloan, Monday marked the beginning of a transformation.
"This is the culmination of a lot of hard work and spiritual growth to be a better person than I was last year," said the Sligh Middle School teacher. "I am so thankful to God because I know I am not the same person I was when I started Ramadan."
Sloan, a Muslim for 26 years, joined Muslims around the world Monday to celebrate Eid al-Fitr, a holiday that ends the strict fast observed during the holy month of Ramadan.
Eid al-Fitr, or "the festival of fast breaking," comes after a month during which Muslims abstain from eating, drinking, smoking and sexual relations from dawn to dusk to become closer to God. Eid al-Fitr is celebrated with gift exchanges, feasts and celebrations.
It's also a time for giving thanks to God and alms to the poor, called Zakat.
Ramadan's end was a festive affair at the Islamic Society of Tampa Bay on Sligh Avenue, where a morning prayer and carnival drew 5,000 revelers.
Many dressed in their holiday best enjoyed midway rides, food and vendors selling everything from incense and oils to jewelry, art and purses.
The greeting of the day was Eid mubarak, which means blessed Eid.
"We're a minority here" in Tampa, said Ahmed Bedier, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Tampa. "It's important to give our children a sense of awareness of their religion. They see Christmas, Hanukkah and Easter, so it's important for them to celebrate here and to know what it means."
Despite the festive mood, the violence in the Middle East wasn't far from Bedier's mind.
"How thankful we are to be living in America, to be celebrating our holiday in safety," he said. "While we're grateful we can worship freely here, we can't take for granted all the luxuries and freedoms. We need to continue to educate people and build bridges."
Kay Young of Tampa attended the celebration to show her support for Muslims. Although she is not a Muslim, she fasts during Ramadan each year.
"It makes me a stronger person," Young said. "I've grown to love the Muslim faith and its people. It's a very compassionate religion, and it helps a lot of poor."
One of the hottest venues at the festival was the henna tent, where dozens of young women and girls waited patiently for the chance to sport one of Neveen Nawany's creations.
"This is a tradition all women can show off," said Nawany, 15, of her body art. "It's beautiful, and it's perfect for an important celebration like today's."
The carnival continues from 11 a.m. to 8 p.m. today.
"I am not the same person I was when I started Ramadan."
Hannan Danon, 12, fasted for the month of Ramadan. Her brother Abdullah, 6, fasted for two days. Both celebrated on swings Monday.
Natalie Cooper, left, the granddaughter of Denise Sloan, celebrates at the Islamic Society of Tampa Bay with her new friend Layla Vann. The carnival to mark Eid al-Fitr will continue from 11 a.m. to 8 p.m. today.
Rema Hamoyi, 12, holds on tight to Janan Nimer on one of the carnival rides. The holiday also is celebrated with gifts and feasts. Allan's Snackbar?
They are happy to be here, far from the killing - cuz there are (now) insufficient numbers for critical mass. Tomorrow, well, we'll leave that to Allan, it seems. I am uplifted.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Afghan militants are planning to launch deadly attacks on civilians in Europe in revenge for the 2001 invasion by United States-led forces, a Taliban commander said on Sky News television Monday. 
As many as 14,000 Somalis have crossed into neighboring Kenya since September, according to United Nations estimates. That brings the total for the year to 34,000, the biggest influx since the early 1990s, when the collapse of Mohammed Siad Barre's dictatorship opened a decade and a half of anarchy that made the Horn of Africa country the world's best-known failed state. 
THE United States has condemned the Sudanese GovernmentĀs decision to expel the head of the United Nations mission to the country and said that international action was needed to contain the worsening conflict. Condoleezza Rice, the Secretary of State, described as Āunfortunate in the extremeĀ the move to order 
Muslim protesters threw stones at a prison van carrying four men accused of distributing anti-Islamic literature to court Monday, and riot police fired into the air to break up the demonstration. 
(SomaliNet) Senior officials of Islamic Courts on Monday visited former Radio Mogadishu station inside the building of ex- information ministry in the capital of Somalia shortly after todayĀs Eid prayer, announcing the opening and Islamist run Radio. The Islamic Courts renamed the station into ĀRadio Mogadishu voice of Somali nationĀ and confirmed it will serve for Somali people under the authority of Islamists in a ceremony held inside the compound near former presidential palace ĀVilla SomaliaĀ that is now base for Islamic Courts. The radio station, which received no renovation for the last 15 years, had been run by supporters of 
The eldest son has a yen to see Disneyland. A second son rocks to the riffs of Eric Clapton. A third is said to be the spitting image of his father. No one knows whether one of North Korean leader Kim Jong Il's sons will take the reins of power one day, but the succession issue has gained currency as North Korea enters a new era as a nuclear-armed state. 
The White House fired back Monday at critics of its North Korean policy, saying direct talks with the North, which many are urging, would weaken efforts to confront the reclusive country's nuclear ambitions. J.D. Crouch, the White House's deputy national security adviser, also rejected claims that the North's explosion of a nuclear device on Oct. 9 represented a foreign policy failure for the administration President George W. Bush. 
Some poor countries, such as Mauritania and Haiti, improved their record in a global press freedom index this year, while France, the United States and Japan slipped further down the scale of 168 countries rated, the group Reporters Without Borders said yesterday.
The United States cannot win the global war on terror if U.S. leaders don't understand it -- and Rep. Nancy Pelosi does not understand it, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said on Tuesday.
CNN restricted an on-air discussion about a new book dealing with the Iraq war because peace activist Cindy Sheehan threatened to sue over provocative claims about her in the book, one of its co-authors claims.
Pakistani militants Mohib and Amir used to cross the porous border from the Waziristan region of northwest Pakistan to neighboring Afghanistan whenever they had the urge to fight U.S.-led forces. But their trips have stopped since Waziristan tribal leaders struck a deal with Pakistani authorities last month barring militants from entering Afghanistan from the semi-autonomous tribal state.
Five months after taking office in the citadel, Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki finds his leadership increasingly paralyzed by wrangling within his coalition and Shi'ite allies, as frustration among U.S. officials grows over his failure to move against militias and tackle a host of other issues.
Palestinian governing Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) condemned on Tuesday the abduction of a Spanish photographer that works for the Associated Press (AP) near a Gaza hotel by unknown masked militants. 
Hamas prime minister Ismail Haniya appealed for Palestinian unity and continuing resistance to Israel Monday amid a standoff with moderate president Mahmoud Abbas and clashes between their rival supporters. ĀStop the bloodshed, stop using weapons against your brothers, and unite,Ā Haniya told a crowd of about 20,000 gathered in Gaza City after prayers for the Eid al-Fitr feast marking the end of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
Hizbullah refused to comment Sunday on Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmad Abou al-Gheit's remarks that the resistance group may have initiated the July-August war with Israel to escape the looming issue of disarmament. A Hizbullah official, who wished to remain anonymous, told The Daily Star on Sunday that "Abou al-Gheit and his comments are not worthy of a response or a comment."
