In the tiny Islamic nation of Qatar, the opening of Mel Gibsonâs The Passion of the Christ has become front-page news, breaking box-office records and sparking a remarkable interest in the Christian Gospel among Muslims.
"Do you have the New Testament in Arab? Me and all my friends would like to read it." That was the request of two students after seeing the film about the final 12 hours of Jesusâ life, according to an American couple working in the country, the Asia Times reported.
"This film is generating huge interest in Jesus and the Bible," said David and Natalie, who gave only their first names. "All this has never happened before!" they said in a message reported by the paper.
Many Arabs wanted to see the film only because of the anti-Semitic controversy surrounding it, according to the Times. But the movie has sparked hours of discussion between Christians and Muslims on questions of faith, the couple said. "The message of loving your enemies and Jesus who, even while up on the cross, prayed for and forgave them strikes all viewers deeply," said David and Natalie.
The American couple said they were amazed the Islamic government allowed the film to be released. "Many moviegoers react to the film," they said, according to Asia Times. "For example, those sitting next to us in the theater were moved and breathless. Others wept or had looks of disgust on their facers when watching the brutality Jesus underwent."
The filmâs popularity has prompted some theaters to cancel showings of other films in order to put "The Passion" on more screens. The English language daily Peninsula Qatar reported 66,321 tickets were sold in the first three days, surpassing the record once held by Matrix Reloaded, which had sold 59,000.
Qatarâs population is about 730,000.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/08/2004 11:14:15 PM ||
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Whether you believe in the spiritual message behind it or not - personally I do - it has something to say about human suffering and forgiveness, and I'm glad that they can see that. Maybe something like this is what they need to open their minds.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
04/08/2004 23:42 Comments ||
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Amazing! In Qatar! They're ahead of me. I haven't seen the film yet.
#3
Lol! Prolly got one legal print of the film, maybe two... Kinda screwed up by letting it be known they were adding screens, though, heh. Copyright? Whazzat?
#4
I am happy that the Passion of Christ is being shown; I am not happy that it may fuel more Anti-Jewish (Yewish; Hebrew didn't have "J's" feeling (as if they needed more).
If they get ahold of Bibles in Arabic, they need to make sure they see the parts of the Bible that makes in clear NO ONE GROUP was totally responsible for the crusification of Jesus. Those sentences should be put in BOLD print as our minds sometimes does not focus on what it doesn't want to see.
Interesting note: In Revelation it says the Christians would suffer 10 days; they actually were strongly persecuted for ten years (until Constantine). Therefore for those interested in prophesy-take note.
One of Saudi Arabia's most wanted Al Qaeda man called to kill Americans everywhere and vowed attacks against Arab leaders allied to Washington, according to a video carried on website. "O mujahideen, fight the Americans everywhere and fight the Americans with all your might and capabilities. Terrorise them as they have terrorised your brothers," said a masked man identified as Abdulaziz al-Muqrin in the videotape on Dirasat Islamic Website.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/08/2004 9:43:39 AM ||
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Mmmm... so this is really something new? Didn't he get the memo, they've been killing us for years. Loosen the turban, sport, let some new ideas filter in.
From Geostrategy-Direct, subscription reqâd....
The Saudi ruling family is desperately trying to keep the lid on tension within the armed forces. The tensions stem from internal struggles within the royal family. Various princes have control over different parts of the military and security forces and they have little reason for real cooperation.
Hereâs some scenarios being discussed within the U.S. intelligence community:
· Saudi Interior Ministry forces accidentally kill a leading Saudi cleric aligned with Al Qaida. Saudi clerics riot and the religious police retaliate. Killing clerics does get some peopleâs knickers in a knot, e.g., Yassin booming.
· Saudi religious police attack a liberal Saudi prince or his Arab expatriate employee. Crown Prince Abdullah is forced to order the National Guard to crack down on the police.
· A Shiâite group, sponsored by Iran, attacks the Saudi oil fields in the Eastern Province. Or maybe .comâs Army of Contractors pays a little visit, heh heh.
Saudi troops would crack down on the Shiâite minority and a rebellion would begin.
Nobody knows for sure. But many in the intelligence community say the Saudi powder keg is ready and the only thing missing is some fool with a match. And Allah knows that there are millions of fools runing hither and thither around the Middle East, and most of them carry matches or Bics.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/08/2004 12:25:09 AM ||
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Fuck@n nuts! It's as I thought. No real gov. Just turf and allah.
If you shut down their oil producing ability. Kidnapped their most lustful women. The four oh.
#2
This might be a good time to repost this link to Saudi info. You can see quite a bit of info for free. The subscription stuff is for our State Dept friends who're planning to sell their souls upon retirement...
For the Major Players, click on the Royal Family Tab at the top, then the Family Tree on the left.
You'll see:
Abd al-Aziz (Founded Modern Saudi Arabia)
Click to see the sons that are currently running things. They show 20 wives - I think there should be 26 - one wife for each of the other tribes he united. Check wife Hussa - her boyz are the 7 who are the Big Deal. They have all the key portfolios.
Click on History on the left, then click on Abd al-Aziz's picture. This shows who's running what.
Fahd, Abdallah, Nayif, and Sultan are the most powerful - with Fahd a drooling tottering wreck. Unfortunately they don't designate those who held a position, but no longer do (death, health, etc.), so you see some dupes on the positions. Hussa's boys are the keys.
Crown Prince Abdallah and Badr control National Guard (aka National Emergency Forces, I believe), Sultan runs Army / AF through Defense Ministry. and Nayif runs Religious Police / Educations System and a lot more through the Ministry of Interior.
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/08/2004 9:46 Comments ||
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Thanks for the link,.com. It's the best family tree info that I've read so far. Your comments about Hussa's sons running things are true. This powerful group is known as the Sudayri branch from their mother, Hussa bint Ahmad Sudayri. Here's what I can add about the other boyz.
Abd al-Rahman is Deputy Minister of Defense and Aviation. My guess is his main responsibilities are the Air Force (RSAF) and other aviation matters. Al-Rahman owned the Saudi Development Company when I met him.
Salman is the Governor of Riyahd which is also an influential position.
Ahmad is the smart one. He dropped out years ago and is living abroad.
Turki was the former Deputy Minister of Defense and head of the RSAF when I was there. I've lost track of him since he hasn't been in the news.
I learned from the link that they have three sisters not just the one I knew of. The boyz make sure the girls get a cut of the oil money as well.
Abdallah is a half brother; not one of Hussa's kids.
The thing about this culture is they keep recycling names and it is difficult to know who is who if the full name is not reported.
Last Updated: Thursday, 8 April, 2004, 08:56 GMT 09:56 UK
China sounds alarm on Aids
China hid a blood scandal in the 90s which infected entire villages Chinaâs government has called for an increased effort to stop the spread of HIV/Aids, warning of severe punishment for any attempt at a cover-up.
Health Minister Wu Yi told officials the epidemic was at a critical point where it could spread from high-risk groups to the wider public.
China admits to having more than 800,000 cases of HIV/Aids, but experts say the real figure could be higher.
The UN believes at least 10 million Chinese could be HIV positive by 2010.
"We can completely contain the momentum if we take it seriously. Otherwise, we will lose this best, fleeting opportunity," Ms Wu told regional health officials at a conference on HIV/Aids in Beijing.
"It must be reported timely and faithfully. And any people who intend to hide the epidemic should take responsibility and will be severely punished," the China Daily quoted the minister as saying.
This emphasis on openness suggests China has learned lessons from the Sars (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) crisis it suffered last year, which was worsened by an initial attempt by the authorities to suppress news of the disease, preventing adequate prevention measures.
China also announced on Thursday the establishment of its first formal research centre on Aids, in Shanghai.
""AIDS is accelerating its spread in China at a horrible speed of 30-40% every year. It is not only a medical issue but a serious social one," said its director, Yan Shaogang.
Ms Wu asked local officials to improve education, fight illegal blood sales, circulate condoms and clean needles, and step up surveillance of the disease.
A scandal of illegal blood selling operations in central Henan province in the mid-90s infected tens of thousands of people with HIV, which the Chinese authorities went to great lengths to hide.
In areas where Aids is rife, local government officials sometimes still try to cover up the extent of the problem, fearful that it could have an impact on inward investment.
When it comes to public education, there is still a long way to go.
A survey released last year indicated that one in four Chinese in the countryside have never heard of Aids, and only one in five people surveyed knew that HIV could be transmitted through sex.
While China has every right to properly earn a higher standard of living for its citizens, all of this must be done in an ethical fashion. So far, China has frequently shown an unwillingness to play by accepted rules. Using prison labor to produce goods for export is a sterling example of their misconduct. Permitting thinly veiled government or military wings to run major corporate interests is another important issue. Certain property speculation deals have also been shown to be a complete farce.
Factors like these should be of the greatest concern. China continues to throw its weight around over Taiwanâs potential independence. Not one nation is willing to accept an American let subcontract for sale of conventional submarines to Taiwan due to fear of ruffling Chinaâs delicate tail feathers. China has also exacerbated the crisis in North Korea by selling them critical weapons development technology. There are many other ramifications to Chinaâs conduct as well.
Letâs examine the recent SARS outbreak that originated in China. Disregarding whether this virus was the result of poor sanitation or substandard farming practices, the fact remains that China intentionally concealed or misled the world community and international health organizations about the outbreakâs severity until such a time where it could no longer be hidden. This in turn, caused a larger epidemic to happen because travel restrictions were not put in place quickly enough.
China was acting in a most putrid sort of self interest by trying to avoid a tourism downturn while putting many other populations at risk. How many billions of dollars did the SARS epidemic cost? How much of it might have been prevented if China had been more transparent about the issue? As an example, Canadaâs Asian tourism was off by almost one third for the first half of last year. It was down by almost one quarter for the month of May, 2003 alone. How many millions (if not billions) of lost dollars does that represent?
The SARS outbreaks pale in comparison to the medically caused AIDS epidemic. An Associated Press article details how impoverish Chinese peasants have had to rely upon selling blood just to get by. Corrupt aldermen and mayors turn a blind eye to unsanitary and outright dangerous collection practices, while taking bribes for permitting this to happen in their districts. Since the "bloodheads" are only collecting human plasma, there remains a large amount of red blood cells after centrifuging. It was a common practice to pool this blood and divide it back up into a number of portions equal to the (same blood type)donors. Thereafter, it was reinjected back into those people to prevent anemia related complications.
The result has been a massive epidemic of AIDS in some of the poorest districts. While China has finally taken measures to prevent this despicable enterprise, it is too late for many thousands of people. How many billions of dollars in NGO or WHO funds will be funneled into China as a result of this? Will the Chinese government take responsibility for turning a blind eye to the unscrupulous practices local governments engaged in? What sort of burden will this place on the developed countries and their contributions towards combating AIDS in other third world countries?
Chinaâs pattern of corruption has hatched a whole flock of chickens that are just now coming home to roost. How should this be taken into account as China begins to flex its economic muscle? Should the outside world permit China to maintain such corrupt practices when they have a direct impact on progress being made elsewhere? Should the global community disregard the tremendous economic burden that will be placed upon it due to Chinaâs unwillingness to publish health statistics or enforce transparent business practices? Should China be permitted to expand its economy at the expense of both its people and the quality of aid other nations provide? Should there be a form of excise tax placed upon Chinaâs exports until such a time when they more amply comply with eradication of corruption within their own borders?
There is soon to arrive a tidal wave of repercussions arising from Chinaâs underhanded policies. The major economic beneficiary will be China. They will have avoided spending money on law enforcement and yet been rewarded for this selfsame laxity by increases in medical and rural development aid to its ailing population. This sort of parasitic conduct must be thwarted and its costs must be reverted to Chinaâs account books. Until such a time, China should not be allowed to fully participate in global markets. Itâs slipshod law enforcement causes crimes against humanity and negatively impacts the global economy. Few nations seem willing to point this out for fear of incurring Chinaâs economic blackmail. There needs to be a concerted effort by the developed nations to force a proper accounting for Chinaâs misdeeds and their unwarranted diversion of funds badly needed elsewhere.
In Henan province the residents of Shuang Miao are beginning to die from the "worst medically caused AIDS epidemic in the world." Not just from the virus, but by their own hand as well.
In their corrupt greed, those Chinese government officials who profited from bloodhead graft turned a blind eye to the slipshod plasma collection practices that brought about this needless tragedy. Now, in a febrile attempt to lessen the human toll, the government is allowing the use of untested retroviral drugs upon these same hapless victims. Effectively, the Chinese government is permitting Shanghai Desano to turn Shuang Miao into an open air human laboratory. People who were given these new medications suffered such severe side effects that it forced them to stop taking the experimental drugs. Thatâs not much of a gesture in my book.
China has a +120 billion dollar trade deficit with the United States alone. Corrupt bloodsucking politburo leeches easily can afford to divert a small fraction of this enormous capital influx towards the purchase and distribution of proven retroviral drugs. Such medications might go a long way towards helping save the lives of those they threw into the jaws of this meat grinder. The lack of conscience displayed by these communist Mandarins quite possibly exceeds that of the imperial emperors they so triumphantly supplanted.
Long ago, China threatened to reverse engineer and begin duplication via chemical synthesis of the complex and difficult to develop (and test) retroviral drugs without compensating those Western companies who invested the funds to discover them. There is a consistent pattern of blackmail that China uses in its diplomacy. Be it in threatening the peaceful nation of Taiwan, other countries and corporations or the entire world populationâs health with unchecked outbreaks of the SARS virus.
Does anyone think for one minute that the distribution of these untested retroviral drugs is being done out of compassion for the AIDS patients? This is only happening in an attempt to diminish public outrage and lessen the governmentâs apparent culpability in this mass murder via slow agonizing death. If the government was really serious about this well known and long anticipated epidemic, they would have reduced the billions of yuan spent on their cosmetic space program and attended to more down to earth issues. The Chinese politburo is killing these people as surely as the AIDS virus is.
China should not receive one penny of WHO or NGO AIDS funding unless they decommision their extravagant space program. Until such a time, any money sent to China merely frees up that much more cash for them to pour into weapons development or the assimilation of Tibet and Taiwan. Hong Kong is proof enough of how lackluster a sense of commitment they have about keeping their promises.
The remaining global community must be prepared to stand back and let China implode due to this self-inflicted wound. If they are unwilling to curtail monstrous trade deficits and burgeoning military expenditure, then losing half of their population will place a dramatic damper on such ambitions. We have no obligation to finance Chinaâs corrupt vision of economic and military domination.
TOKYO (AP) - North Korea wants to resolve its differences with Japan and restart talks with Tokyo on establishing diplomatic relations, a former Japanese lawmaker was quoted as saying Wednesday. Taku Yamasaki, a former national lawmaker in Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's conservative party, made the remarks while briefing Koizumi on recent meetings he held with North Korean officials in China, Kyodo News reported. Yamasaki and another politician from the party went to the northern Chinese city of Dailin last week on what was billed as a private diplomatic initiative to jump-start negotiations with the reclusive communist state.
He told Koizumi at a dinner late Wednesday he came away from the meetings "convinced" that North Korea wants to normalize relations with Japan during the prime minister's tenure, Kyodo said, citing unidentified participants at the dinner.
Ex-legislator goes to China and makes peace with the NKors, none of whom are on tape. Sure.
The two estranged nations appeared to be on the verge of establishing diplomatic relations in September 2002, when North Korea admitted at a landmark summit that its spies kidnapped about a dozen Japanese decades earlier. Talks collapsed after North Korea refused to allow the children of five surviving abductees to join their parents in Japan and later revealed that it had been covertly developing nuclear weapons.
Koizumi says North Korea must resolve both issues "comprehensively."
So they're standing with us.
His spokesman could not be reached to comment on Wednesday's report.
"I will say no more!"
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/08/2004 12:06:16 AM ||
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Well, the "Sea of Fire" routine did not work, lobbing a test missile over Japan was (ahem) counterproductive. So an attempt at being nice is worth a NORK shot.
It's good that the Japanese aren't biting. Again, it is up to China and SKor if they want to continue their enabling behavior to this govt of death.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/08/2004 0:47 Comments ||
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If the NorKor has any sense they will launch another over Japan. Use them while you can. Your time is running out.
Paris police said on Thursday they were evacuating several stations on the Paris urban rail network in a bomb alert. A police spokesman said traffic on the RER A -- one of the main rail lines serving the capital -- would be suspended for an hour while checks were carried out. He gave no details of why the alert had been launched...
TERRORISTS who blew themselves up last weekend as rather than be arrested in connection with the Madrid train bombings had been plotting an attack on a sprawling shopping centre outside Madrid. Police combing through the apartment found evidence that included maps of Parquesur, a retail and leisure complex less than a mile (1.6km) from the apartment in the town of Leganes, El Mundo newspaper said, quoting police. The police also found at least two backpacks and a belt, all packed with dynamite and wired to detonators, the paper said. Interior Ministry officials were not available to comment on the report.
El Mundo said the attack was to have been staged on Sunday - the day after the police raid that prompted up to seven terrorists to take their own lives - or during the week before Easter, when millions of Spaniards are on vacation and schools are out, making the crowds that normally pack Parquesur even larger. The facility has 193 stores, a hotel and a 2500-seat multi-cinema.
Another newspaper, El Pais, said four days before the March 11 attacks, police acting on a tip-off from neighbours visited the rural house 30km south-east of Madrid where officials say the bombs used in the railway attacks were assembled. But police did not go into the house because they lacked a court order, and instead just jotted down the license plate numbers of cars parked outside, the paper said. Neighbours had called the police because a heavily overloaded car arrived at the house and they thought it might be carrying drugs or stolen goods, El Pais said.
Key suspects still at large include Amer Azizi, a Moroccan charged with terrorism in the indictment handed by Judge Baltasar Garzon last September against members of an alleged Spain-based al-Qaeda cell that he says helped prepare the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States. Garzon describes Azizi as the right-hand man of reputed cell leader Imad Yarkis in their campaign to recruit young Muslim men and send them to training camps in Afghanistan, Bosnia and Indonesia.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/08/2004 9:45:30 AM ||
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Ibernian notes links a column in which they think 7 dopes splodied. They can ID 4, but not the other 3.
Some are getting it, from an article John posted:
..."Reality also frequently dismantles the image of the Islamic terrorist as a hopeless pariah. Just look at the list of suspects from 3/11: the boss of the group, the sadly notorious Tunisian, had been at the university, like another of those the police are looking for; one of those in jail has a degree in chemistry; another is the owner of a phone shop; "El Chino" and his family had a clothing wholesale business, as did other suspects now in jail. This profile does not correspond to that of unfortunate individuals, just the opposite of the many thousands of immigrants, whether Muslims or not, who have to make their own way every day working at the hardest and worst-paid jobs without for one moment thinking of violence.
If we're looking for the causes, we should look at what causes the fanaticism which moves all terrorists and, in particular, the Islamist ones. Probably sectarian indoctrination is a lot more important than the intervention in Iraq. When we look for the roots of this situation, we should pay attention to Professor Fernando Reinares, an expert in the study of violence: "It's important not to confuse causes with pretexts." For now we know a lot about the pretexts but very little about the causes."
#2
pay me $3 million dollars and I'll tell you what causes it. It's spoiled children who believe they are entitled to privilige, but either can't make it or don't feel they should have to work within the existing system to achieve the position in life they feel they deserve. So rather than attempt and fail, they create their own little world in which they are "the man".
Usually they only command a little band of followers, but every now and then, the stars align and you get a bin Laden.
Posted by: B ||
04/08/2004 10:57 Comments ||
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If you want to look at causes, look to mainly Saudi money. They are the ones that financed Binny, the madrassas, the Charities from Hellâ¢, the enablers of aimless youth in a corrupt society.
I hope that the Spanish finally get a clue. It seems that once the terrorists get on step, they don't stop. Appeasement will not work.
Until we dry up the Saudi money stream, we are treating the symptoms and not the disease.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/08/2004 11:14 Comments ||
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WASHINGTON - Relatives of September 11 attacks victims said testimony given by national security adviser Condoleezza Rice to an official commission failed to fully explain why the United States was caught off guard by al-Qaeda. (As I predicted last week!)
"I think she really danced around the issues," said Mary Fetchet, whose son Bradley, 24, perished when terrorists flew a jetliner into the second World Trade Center tower on September 11, 2001.
"She gave very vague responses. Questions that she didnât want to answer, she didnât answer," said Fetchet.
She said she had hoped Rice would follow the example of former counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke, who in testimony to the commission two weeks ago apologized to the families for the governmentâs failure to prevent the attacks.
"She doesnât accept that she did not make good decisions, that she as national security adviser did not do what she was supposed to do," said Fetchet, who said her son might be alive today if the government had heeded the clues about an impending terror strike.
"Any mother will tell you, you need to learn from your mistakes so that you donât make them again. Unless people are ... honest about what the failures were and take some accountability for those failures, what are we really going to resolve?" she asked. (This woman is obviously loopy off the deep end!)
Some relatives felt however, that mea culpas were not called for.
"I think an apology would be inappropriate," said Debra Burlingame, whose brother Charles was the pilot of the plane that rammed the Pentagon.
"It wouldnât have mattered who was in the Oval Office on September 11. Nothing they could have done could have prevented my brotherâs murder and the murder of 3,000 other people," she said.
"We had breakdowns in our intelligence agencies, we had breakdowns with the FBI, we had legal barriers that prevented them from sharing information -- she explained all that," she said.
The biggest lesson from 9/11, Burlingame continued, was that "we have new enemies. We have to look ahead. We know now that there are individuals with laptops and cell phones and an overriding desire to kill Americans." (Nicely put!)
Hers appeared to be a minority view among family members however. Beverly Eckert, who lost her husband Sean Rooney in the World Trade Center attack, said she feared Americans were no safer today than before 9/11, especially since the US-led war on Iraq.
"The war in Iraq diverted resources. Honestly I donât know that weâre stopping terrorism by agitating that segment of the world," she said. "I donât think weâre safer from terrorism. I think weâre less safe." (Right from the DNC talking points memo.)
Rosemary Dillard said she felt the "utmost respect" for Riceâs grace under fire on the witness stand, but was unconvinced by the testimony, saying much of what Rice -- one of President George W. Bushâs most trusted aides -- had to offer was "spin."
"She would go on and on, and by the time she finished nobody knew what the original question was."
"She appears to be a very good person. She also appears to be the person whoâs going to protect her boss," said Dillard, whose husband Eddie was a passenger on the airliner that slammed into the Pentagon.
"I think our government owes us some answers," Dillard said. "We need to know that I can get on an airplane and not have this happen, or I can get on a train. I need to know that the government agencies that are supposed to protect us, protect us." (Again how would Mrs. Dillard would have liked things to be played out prior to 9/11?)Helga Gerhardt and her husband Hans, originally from Germany, said they had been frustrated that the information flow was slow, but, after attending the hearings, said they are piecing together the events which took the life of their son Ralph at the World Trade Center.
"Iâm getting more answers over time," said Gerhardt, who has lived for nearly four decades in Canada.
"For us itâs more important now to find out why this happened. When we saw it on television, we knew immediately that this was a terrorist attack. Why did it take so long to mobilize to protect the sites?"
Despite having attended hours of commission hearings, she said, "Iâm still not 100 percent sure I understand."
I hope you donât mind but I would like to cherry pick from this article:
-Vague answers as to how terrorists carried out this act
-No Apology
-Iraq diverting resources from WOT
-Still not safe
-Hiding something
Sounds like the talking points for the left not concerned family members. Sad that they donât understand that they are being used by the LLL. I canât imagine but if someone in my family had been killed on that day I would want two things: 1) Get those responsible and 2) make sure it never happens again. If these family members need to assign blame for the 9/11 attacks I offer Mr. Osama Bin Laden, not President Bush or Clinton or anyone in their administration. Also Kudos to Senator BOB Kerry for telling those Moveon idiots to stop clapping during testimony and shame on the ?Ben Venosti? for they most partisan questions of the meeting (jackass).
Our country has been under attack for at least a decade by Bin Laden and his gang of thugs. At No time prior to 9/11 had anyone (Dem Or Rep) suggested that we even remotely take the steps for security that were implemented AFTER 9/11. Dr. Rice gave some insightful testimony as to what is and isnât âactionableâ intelligence. Two men talking vaguely about something âbigâ that going to occur soon is NOT and example of intelligence you can use to employ assets (troops, CIA, ETC). Arabs at a flight school is not (pre 9/11) by itself actionable intelligence. The post 9/11 world would still have trouble acting on the chatter but we certainly would take a closer look at Arabs attending flight schools. Of course these points were missed by the âNewsâ correspondents that have 20/20 hindsight.
#1
Cybersarge, I got curious about anothe article I read that got reactions from four family members of 9/11 victims. They were Patty Casazza, Carie Lemack, Bob McIlvaine and Beverly Eckert. None were identified in the article(which I can't find to save my life I have the link as www.scoop.co.nz/mason/HL0402/s00021.htm that doesn't work.) Anyway I tracked them back to several groups: Voices of Sept 11, 911 Independent Commission and September Eleventh Families For a Peaceful Tomorrow. The last one isworth a hit. Frankly, I'm glad I don't qualify for membership to the first two but the third looks like a front for puppet-people.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/09/2004 4:41 Comments ||
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Fechet is a member of one or several of these groups as well.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/09/2004 4:48 Comments ||
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While I understand the propaganda value of this farce, I have to say that I think this 9/11 families thing is a negative for the Kerry side. All it does is call attention to the Tides Foundation, and DNC shallow underhanded tactics. Not only that - it's insulting that they really believe the peasants beneath them are this stupid....even though we know that some are.
I think this whole 9/11 Families thing is, overall, a big net loss for the democrats and shows just how sophomoric their minds really are.
#4
I am not just trying to rally those who think 'news' events like this could hurt Bush in Nov.
I think that everytime one of these smear pieces come out, Bush has a fresh insight on where his opponents are going. Just one TV ad stating that 12 years of sleeping at the wheel brought about 911, but just 30 months of war, extremely low collateral civilian casualties, and an inspired and motivated military, has made the world a safer place for civilian life; this in spite of defeatist comments made by senior party officials, an a sore lack of help from major and former allies.
If I were a democrat operative, I would be begging and pleading our left wing to please, please STFU about 911.
An Arabic-language jihadi website posted a message purporting to be "al-Qaidaâs plan of economic attack" on the U.S. that included setting forest fires, according to the Northeast Intelligence Network. The six-point plan appeared Saturday and called for:
1. attacks on the assets of large American companies all over the world;
2. attacks on U.S. oil refineries;
3. attacks on civilian airports with the goal of financially devastating U.S. airlines;
4. deliberate pollution of food system;
5. setting of fires in the forests â "especially those that provide the American market with the raw materials for the wood and paper and byproducts industries";
6.attacks like those on the railway transportation lines in Spain;
Last fall, WorldNetDaily reported on al-Qaidaâs threats against the forests of the U.S. and its allies â and pointed out the rash of devastating wildfires that raged through Europe, Australia and the U.S.
Law enforcement officials suspected several of the California wildfires that killed 18, consumed more than 718,000 acres and destroyed more than 2,400 homes in 10 days were deliberately set â increasing speculation there is a terror connection to the blazes. Only one man was arrested â Dikran Armouchian, 23, of Pasadena. He pleaded not guilty and has not yet been tried. Damage estimates exceeded $2 billion. The fires were among the deadliest and costliest disasters in California.
Meanwhile, there is evidence terrorism was behind other wildfires in Europe and Australia last summer. In the devastating forest fires that swept through the Maures mountains near the French Riviera in late July, investigators found Molotov cocktails, or gasoline bombs, were used to ignite the blazes that killed at least four and destroyed 50 homes.
Luc Jousse, the mayor of Roque-Sur-Argens, called the fires "a new form of terrorism." President Jacques Chirac threatened those responsible with "sanctions of an extraordinary gravity."
The fires in France were the worst ever in the region. In addition, southern Italy also was hit last summer with devastating wildfires also believed to be the result of arson. In August, Australian authorities launched an investigation into reports al-Qaida planned to spark brushfires in a new wave of devastating terror attacks.
A June 25 FBI memo to United States law enforcement agencies revealed a senior al-Qaida detainee claimed to have developed a plan to start midsummer forest fires in the U.S. The terrorist hoped to mimic the destruction that devastated Canberra last summer, killing four people and destroying more than 500 homes, as well as in other parts of Australia.
The memo, obtained by the Arizona Republic newspaper, said the unidentified detainee revealed he hoped to create several large, catastrophic wildfires at once. "The detainee believed that significant damage to the U.S. economy would result and once it was realized that the fires were terrorist acts, U.S. citizens would put pressure on the U.S. government to change its policies," the memo said. The detainee told investigators his plan called for three or four operatives to travel to the U.S. and set timed explosive devices in forests and grasslands.
"Australian security authorities are aware of reports that al-Qaida has considered starting brushfires in the U.S. as a form of terrorist attack," said a spokeswoman Australian Attorney General Daryl Williams. "Arson attacks are just one of a wide range of scenarios which have been considered as part of our investigations into al-Qaidaâs ability to conduct attacks in Australia."
In fact, Arab terrorists in Israel have started dozens of major forest fires over the years. As far back as 1988, Israeli police caught more than a dozen Palestinian adults in the act of setting fires, while other Arabs confessed to arson after arrest. Some fires followed specific calls by underground Arab terrorists. A leaflet issued by the Palestinian uprisingâs underground leadership called for "the destruction and burning of the enemyâs properties, industry and agriculture." Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir said at the time: "The need to set fires, which also leads to murders, is in my eyes worse than fundamentalism."
Israeli nature reserve authorities said 408 fires in May and June of 1988 destroyed 400,000 acres of land, nearly seven times the acreage burned from 1974 to 1986. Last year, Gilad "Gidi" Mastai, chief ranger in the Galilee region of Israel, told the Jerusalem Post: "Itâs extremely hard to find arsonists, just like itâs hard to close off the Green Line to terrorists. The forests here are on the front line."
But, he said, the vast majority of deliberate fires are started by Arabs with political motives. Forest rangers often need the help of the Israel Defense Forces to battle the terror blazes. Arson cases account for one-third of Israeli forest fires. "Political" arsonists cause the most with negligent hikers a close second.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/08/2004 2:16:35 PM ||
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Luc Jousse, the mayor of Roque-Sur-Argens, called the fires "a new form of terrorism." President Jacques Chirac threatened those responsible with "sanctions of an extraordinary gravity."
Ooooooooooooooo! Chiraq's statement will put fear into the Al-Q cells. I can see them now ditching their incendiary junk bags and making reservations for flights back to ___________ [ME location] and using ______________[fill in nation] passports. Fill in the blanks.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/08/2004 14:27 Comments ||
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#2
Unfortunately, things are pretty dry in the western US after several years of drought. Sigh.
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/08/2004 14:36 Comments ||
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#4
Fox News Alert just reported a refinery explosion in New Mexico. Two hurt and the rest evacuated. Fire out. There have be at least 3 of these recently.. one hopes they are not sabatoge.
#5
Fox News Alert just reported a refinery explosion in New Mexico. Two hurt and the rest evacuated. Fire out. There have be at least 3 of these recently.. one hopes they are not sabatoge.
#7
M4D, don't slap a tree. The birch never did anything to you and the bark was very helpful to Native Americans.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/08/2004 15:24 Comments ||
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#8
Ironically, all those forest fires are gonna put a huge damper on global warming. One measley fire in Canada a couple years ago cooled off the entire northeast in the dead of summer.
Posted by: Uncle War ||
04/08/2004 15:24 Comments ||
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Well, W just might have to declare a state of emergency and waive all those summer requirements which cause us to have 95 different blends of gas. We'd just have to deal w/it for one season.
#13
Wasn't it about this time last year that they were going to attack "the big refinery in Texas"?
Posted by: Matt ||
04/08/2004 15:51 Comments ||
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#14
Hmmmm. Maybe fight fire with fire. Dump several thousand tons of napalm into South Waziristan the first time we have proof of a terror-started wildfire. Hit North Waziristan if there's a second attempt. Hit downtown Damascus if there's a third. Think they'll get the hint????
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/08/2004 16:15 Comments ||
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#15
There lotsa car wrecks going on too i fear the worse and hed hurts good nite
Posted by: Man Bites Dog TROLL ||
04/08/2004 21:42 Comments ||
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#23
We can't guard all our country's forests all the time, but we can guard all our country's points of entry all the time. Nobody from any Moslem country should be entering the USA without being thoroughly vetted and without legitimate business to conduct. We're at war!
SEATTLE - A Muslim Army chaplain embroiled in a case involving a suspected espionage ring at the Guantanamo Bay detention center in Cuba returned home to Fort Lewis on Monday. Capt. James Yee arrived at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport about 4:20 p.m., a few hours late after he had problems clearing security and missed his original flight.
``Both he and his father have experienced this problem since the character assassination against him began last year,ââ his lawyer, Eugene Fidell, said early Monday morning. In the past, Fidell said, Yee has been refused a plane ticket, but he did not know specifically what delayed the chaplain on Monday as he was trying to depart from Baltimore. Yeeâs wife and daughter live in Olympia.
``Itâs the kind of thing that demonstrates how critical it is that the government ... clear his name and get him out of this security limbo,ââ Fidell said. Yee, 35, spent 76 days in custody after the military linked him to a possible espionage ring at Guantanamo Bay. He was eventually charged with mishandling classified material, failing to obey an order, making a false official statement, adultery and conduct unbecoming an officer. Last month the Army dismissed all criminal charges, but did find him guilty of the minor violations of adultery and improperly downloading pornography onto an Army computer.
He also requested Gen. James Hill, commander of the U.S. Southern Command, recuse himself from the case and asked that the military return Yeeâs passport, restore him to duty and grant him a formal apology. As of Monday he said he had received no response. Ainât gonna happen.
Fidell has said the Armyâs decision to drop most of the charges and hold an Article 15 proceeding - used to settle minor disciplinary issues - hurt Yeeâs defense preparation and minimized media scrutiny. Also dropped the level of proof to a preponderance of evidence where 50% sure heâs guilty plus the smallest smidge is good enough.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/08/2004 3:57:48 AM ||
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Something doesn't smell right here. All he needed to do was refuse to accept being disciplined under Article 15 - he could reject the Article 15 and demand a courts martial. So - the fact that he underwent Articke 15 punishment meant that he accepted this route - effectively the equivalent of a plea bargain.
#4
It's that other career he apparently thought he really had that worries me.
'Course, he'll never get in a position again to pursue that "career" effectively. And I expect he'll be watched, too.
Good.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
04/08/2004 21:57 Comments ||
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#5
I think the guy was guilty as hell, but the GOV.. didn't want to have to release certain intel info they defense was sure to ask for. Don't you think the Dept. of Justice has enough on it's hands for now?
#6
Gotta disagree here. If the guy is guilty of something, the government should say so and make its case. If not, they should shut up and use non-judicial means to neutralize the guy if they have sufficient suspicions. Trans fer him to Thule or wherever. But smearing people is a bad habit to get into and will dilute domestic resolve for the real WoT.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
05/30/2004 12:13 Comments ||
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Doorkbob dead... Pushing up daisies... Decomposing... Departed this vale of tears... Gone on to better things... One with the angels...
PHILIPPINE troops killed a US-wanted leader of the Abu Sayyaf Islamic group, and five other rebels in the southern island of Basilan on Thursday, the army said, adding a soldier died as well.
Hamsiraji Sali, who had a US bounty of $US5 million on his head, was killed along with his brother, Tahir and four other rebels on the outskirts of Isabela City, local army commander Colonel Raymundo Ferrer said.
Posted by: Jen ||
04/08/2004 15:31 ||
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that link isnt work right now. please try again later.
Six members of the Muslim extremist Abu Sayyaf group, including a senior leader wanted by the United States, were killed in a clash Thursday with Philippine troops on southern Basilan island, officials said. Hamsiraji Sali, one of five Abu Sayyaf leaders wanted by Washington for the deaths of two American hostages, was among the six killed by a Scout Ranger platoon in Basilan's Isabela town, military spokesman Lt. Col. Daniel Lucero said. Four troops were wounded in the gunfight, which erupted at noon in the village of Makiri. An official from the military's Southern Command said a civilian tipped off the soldiers on the location of Sali's group, but that the rebels apparently got wind of the military's plan to raid their hideout and were able to retaliate.
Well, until they got wacked.
Galib Andang, another senior Abu Sayyaf leader who is not on the U.S. list but recently was arrested, told authorities Sali broke off from Janjalani's group over disagreements over ransom money. In previous calls to local media two years ago, Sali said the break was due to contradicting views and goals. He said he wanted to surrender and cooperate with the government to help the civilian population of Basilan, where he is based. But Sali said this was conditional on the military halting its offensive there.
Sali is now unavailable for comment.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/08/2004 8:43:48 AM ||
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Additional: In a television interview, Army Southern Command chief Lieutenant General Roy Kyamko said Basilan residents and local journalists identified Sali's remains. One soldier was killed while three others were wounded, including their leader, Colonel Noel Buan, Kyamko said.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/08/2004 9:34 Comments ||
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The human rights organisation Amnesty International has called on Syria to release Kurds detained during last monthâs violent riots. "Hundreds" of Kurds are being held at unknown locations, incommunicado and without charge, Amnesty said. It called for an independent inquiry into the riots which left 25 dead and injured hundreds in five days. ....
The Syrian government has not revealed how many people were detained following clashes between demonstrators and troops.
Kurdish leaders said last month that hundreds of people had been released from custody, but that hundreds of others were still being held.
In its statement on Tuesday, Amnesty International said: "The incommunicado detention at unknown locations of many hundreds of Syrian Kurds is of serious concern, not least as it puts detainees at greater risk of torture or ill-treatment. .... Unless they are to be charged with recognisably criminal offences and brought to trial without undue delay, they should be released immediately."
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/08/2004 10:51:37 PM ||
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Way to go AI. Somebody should fire whoever is responsible for this. He's not in keeping with their regular program of whining about bad food at Gitmo.
While the anti-government riots that raged throughout the Kurdish-populated areas of Syria for much of the past week and a half appear to have subsided as of Monday, the recent unrest may prove to be the calm before the storm for Syriaâs Kurdish pro-democracy advocates.
On March 21, amidst banners condemning the continued repression of Kurds by Syriaâs ruling Baath party, some 50 protesters assembled in front of the Syrian embassy in Washington, DC. The embassy demonstration came as fires still burned on the outskirts of the northern Syrian city of Qamoshli, leaving Syrian president Bashar al-Assad with perhaps his worst political crisis since taking office in June 2000.
According to Kurdish sources, between 50 and 70 opponents of the Assad regime were killed and more than 200 injured by local police and the Syrian army during riots that swept through Qamoshli, Hasakah, Dirik, Amouda, and Ras el-Ein, all Kurdish-majority cities in northern Syria. In addition, as many as 1200 Kurds were reportedly detained or arrested during the uprising, although many have since been released. article continues
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/08/2004 8:56:28 AM ||
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I know these Kurds can be bad dudes and all...but I just can't help myself from secretly hoping that these guys get their own country with all of Mosoul's (sp?) oil as their own.
BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) - Syria has arrested dozens of Kurds in nightime raids of homes in the country's northeast, Kurdish officials said Wednesday. The arrests followed clashes between Syrian security forces and Kurdish rioters last month that killed 25 and wounded more than 100. Hundreds of Kurds were arrested following that unrest.
Rat: "s-s-s-ay, the cat does look a little busy at the moment ..."
"Syrian authorities have not stopped their nighttime raids, arrests, and oppression of safe Kurds in their homes, continuing the policy of persecution against the Kurdish people," Abdel Baki Youssef, leader of the Kurdish Yekiti Party, said in a statement that was faxed to The Associated Press in Beirut.
Syrian officials could not be reached for comment.
"We will say no more! Actually, we didn't say anything in the first place."
Youssef said the arrests included four Kurdish schoolchildren, aged 12 and 13, taken from their school in Qamishli, 450 miles northeast of Damascus. He said they were sent to a prison in Hasakah, 50 miles southwest of Qamishli.
Yasss, the 'Young Kurdish Subversive League'.
Youssef claimed another Kurd, 26-year-old Hussein Hamak Nasso, died overnight Wednesday after being tortured in prison in the northern town of Afreen. He said Syrian security forces prevented Nasso's family from holding a funeral and forced them to bury him secretly in their presence.
They let the family live? Man, the Syrians must be getting soft.
Up to 40 people may have been arrested in Hasakah province in the past two days, Abdel Hamid Darwish, the leader of the Kurdish Democratic Progressive Party in Syria, said from Qamishli.
On Tuesday, human rights watchdog Amnesty International urged Syria to begin an independent judicial inquiry into last month's clashes, to end repressive measures against its Kurdish minority, and release "hundreds" of Kurds held without charges.
That's tellin' 'em! Hit 'em with a press release!
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/08/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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Like the man said, we're a little bit busy at the moment. You guys will just have to shoot your own Ba'athist fascists for a while.
A group claiming to have ties with al-Qaida offered Hungarian soldiers up to $100,000 if they leave Iraq in a letter published Thursday, but threatened their families if they stay.
The "Special Task Force of the Hungarian al-Qaida" said soldiers returning by May 1 would be paid through a transfer from a "secure European bank."
Soldiers staying in Iraq beyond May 1 "will have a great sadness," and their families would be harmed, said the letter, appearing in the daily Magyar Hirlap. "We are obliged to see the enemy in every invading soldier, including the Hungarian ones."
Hungarian police and intelligence services were investigating the letter, police spokesman Laszlo Garamvolgyi said, without elaborating.
In the two-page letter full of grammatical mistakes, the group also said there were "loyal Islam soldiers and a lot of explosives in Budapest." The letter warned that the group would blow up the parliament building, churches, schools, synagogues and train stations unless the Hungarian soldiers left Iraq.
Hungary has 300 troops stationed in Iraq carrying out transportation duties for coalition forces under Polish command. They were deployed in September 2003 and have a mandate from Parliament to stay in Iraq until the end of 2004.
The government has said it would be willing to consider extending the troopsâ mission into 2005.
"The situation in Iraq is deteriorating, but we are doing everything to ensure the safety of the Hungarian soldiers," Defense Minister Ferenc Juhasz said Thursday.
EFL.
For the second time in the four-day battle for Fallujah, U.S. forces called in one of their most devastating weapons â an AC-130 gunship that laid down heavy fire.
One Marine was killed Thursday, the fourth to die this week in Fallujah, where U.S. commanders have vowed to root out insurgents who have put up stiff resistance. Fallujahâs hospital reported more than 280 Iraqi dead since the siege began Monday morning.
"The mission is going particularly well. We made inroads into the city and we are driving the enemy resistance back," said Marine Lt. Col. Greg Olsen. "Weâre winning every firefight." Sounds Good.
The Marines have said they hold about a quarter of the city, one of the bastions of the Sunni-led insurgency that has plagued U.S. forces across central and northern Iraq (news - web sites) for months.
But militants in the city showed equal confidence.
"They canât get in. We challenge them to enter," a guerrilla commander from inside the city told the Al-Jazeera TV network in a phone interview. And then his lips . . . you know. The commander, identified only as Abu Hafs, said he belonged to a group called the "Mujahedeen of the Victorious Sect," which includes non-Iraqi Islamic militants.
"Morale is high for mujahedeen, and for the civilians," he said.
. . .
One officer said Marines encountered insurgents wearing suicide belts for the first time in the Fallujah campaign. Two Iraqis killed by Marines were found with belts bearing plastic explosives and metal for shrapnel. A raid on a weapons cache in a house also uncovered suicide belts.
It was a disturbing sign because suicide tactics had not been seen before in Fallujah.
Marines fought through the morning to recapture the Abdel-Aziz al-Samarrawi mosque, which they said had been cleared of gunmen a day earlier. After hours of fighting, with helicopters firing from overhead, tanks moved in around the neighborhood and Marines seized the mosque, witnesses said.
Gunmen moved back into the area after a six-hour fight Wednesday, during which a helicopter hit the mosqueâs minaret with a missile and a warplane dropped a 500-pound bomb on the mosqueâs wall to allow Marines to flood inside.
. . .
In a sign of widespread anger over the siege of the city of 200,000 people â particularly the fighting around mosques â Muhammed Hassam al-Balwa resigned as president of the U.S.-appointed Fallujah city council.
He told an AP reporter that the resignation was to protest "the killing of innocents in Fallujah and the striking of mosques."
Things have been busy here. You know I canât say much about it. However, I do know two things. One, POTUS has given us the green light to do whatever we needed to do to win this thing so we have that going for us. Two, and my opinion only, this battle is going to have far reaching effects on not only the war here in Iraq but in the overall war on terrorism. We have to be very precise in our application of combat power. We cannot kill a lot of innocent folks (though they are few and far between in Fallujah). There will be no shock and awe. There will be plenty of bloodshed at the lowest levels. This battle is the Marine Corpsâ Belleau Wood for this war. 2/1 and 1/5 will be leading the way. We have to find a way to kill the bad guys only. The Fallujahans are fired up and ready for a fight (or so they think). A lot of terrorists and foreign fighters are holed up in Fallujah. It has been a sanctuary for them. If they have not left town they are going to die. Iâm hoping they stay and fight.
This way we wonât have to track them down one by one.
This battle is going to be talked about for a long time. The Marine Corps will either reaffirm its place in history as one of the greatest fighting organizations in the world or we will die trying. The Marines are fired up. Iâm nervous for them though because I know how much is riding on this fight (the war in Iraq, the view of the war at home, the length of the war on terror and the reputation of the Marine Corps to name a few). However, every time Iâve been nervous during my career about the outcome of events when young Marines were involved they have ALWAYS exceeded my expectations. Iâm praying this is one of those times.
#1
God bless them all and bring them home someday soon safe, sound and victorious!
I'm praying for our troops and those of the Coalition everyday and in every way.
Let's Roll.
Posted by: Jen ||
04/09/2004 2:31 Comments ||
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Religious violence that erupted in the Nigerian state of Plateau a few weeks ago has expanded and resulted in the deaths of eight pastors and 1,500 Christian believers, and the destruction of 173 churches, according to a bulletin released by Open Doors USA. The Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN) released the names of the martyred pastors who served Baptist, Anglican, Roman Catholic, Assemblies of God and the Evangelical Reformed congregations, as well as the Church of Christ in Nigeria and the Evangelical Church of West Africa.
Nigeriaâs National Emergency Management Agency reported that religious violence in Plateau and Nasarawa states has resulted in the displacement of 25,000 people. Bauchi state official Alhaji Musa Lima told Compass, âAbout 50,000 displaced persons who managed to escape the hostility have temporarily relocated to some parts of this state,â placing enormous pressure on local resources. On March 28, Muslim-Christian violence broke out in the state of Nasarawa, reportedly claiming the lives of 15 Christians, according to Compass Direct.
Compass Direct reports Christian leaders have condemned Muslim fundamentalists for killing Christians and destroying churches in northern Nigeria, warning that the national governmentâs inability to address the violence could turn the country into a theater for religious war. The Christian Association of Nigeria issued a prepared statement that read, âHow can anyone explain the reason for invading a church where women, children and men were worshipping, asking them to surrender and lie face down and then proceed to machete and axe them to death in their house of worship?â The CAN statement asserted that Christians in Nigeria have never initiated violence against Muslims and claimed that Nigerian officials demonstrate lukewarm attitudes toward the plight of Christians. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/08/2004 11:07:31 PM ||
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Wonder what they did to piss them off now? Somebody fart in front of a mosque?
Last weekâs outbreak of the bird flu in South-East Asia succeeded in making as a mere footnote in the international media , the alarm raised by the World Health Organization (WHO) at about the same time, that new outbreak of polio (cerebral spinal meningitis) in Nigeria which had spread to about seven West African countries represent a serious health danger not only to the West African region but the possibility of triggering a global epidemic.
But a world devastated last year by the highly contagious SARS epidemic paid closer attention to events in South East Asia. Not even the media spin that claimed most of the victims of the present epidemic, largely in Islamic northern Nigeria refused government vaccines imported from the western world ,alleging the vaccines were laced with other deadly poisons meant to depopulate the Moslem community in Nigeria as part of a broader western world strategic calculations in the global war against terrorism could give prominence to the story.
Obviously, the entire world is out to get these Nigerian Islamists. Of course we're tainting their vaccines with AIDS/HIV compounds. Maybe it's for a good reason too, since they are responsible for the first major polio outbreak in modern history. A major die off in this region just might prevent a whole lot of downstream heartbreak.
The Ivory Coast has had its first polio case in four years. The outbreak from northern Nigeria has already spread to Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, the Central African Republic, Chad, Ghana, and Togo. Chad has more than 20 new cases directly linked to Nigeria's immunization blockade.
Pakistani forces have drawn a bead on a cluster of remote hideouts along the Afghan border and promised Thursday to send thousands of soldiers in a fierce crackdown if tribesmen there do not hand over al-Qaeda terrorists by April 20. .... This time, Pakistani forces have shifted their focus to North Waziristan, and more specifically to a group of mud compounds along a forbidding mountain range straddling the Afghan border in the forested area of Shawal. ....
... intelligence indicated foreign terrorists had used Shawal in the past, and that troops also were concerned about militant activity in two other North Waziristan towns â Shakai and Hamrang, and the village of Makin in South Waziristan. ....
On Monday, more than 100 tribal elders met in Peshawar with the local governor, who set the April 20 deadline for turning over the militants to avoid military action. One tribe has formed a 600-member military unit to round up terrorists, though it is not clear how vigorously they will support the military. ....
Lt. Col. Michele DeWerth, a U.S. military spokesman in the Afghan capital, said U.S.-led troops were patrolling the border closely and would continue to conduct "parallel and complimentary" operations on the Afghan side. She declined to give details. ...
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/08/2004 10:35:07 PM ||
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Locations of the remote hideouts will be released to the public tomorrow after they are sent to al-Qaeda by ISI.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
04/08/2004 22:55 Comments ||
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12 days? Are you sure they're giving them enough notice? It usually takes me two weeks to pack up for a move.
Anti-American SPIEGEL ONLINE, the online version of Germanyâs left-wing weekly SPIEGEL, presents an Instant Messenger communication between 2 Iraqi brothers during the Ramadi fighting where 12 marines were killed. The piece is in German, translated from the original version at qoqaz.com. It is clear from the communication: The insurgents are using women and children to attack the Americans.
Al-Anbari: All of the people in the area have started to move, men and women. I didnât think that the people in this area were so heroic. The mothers are even pushing their children into the fight.
Kamal: Whatever God wants! Blessed be the Almighty!
Al-Anbari: Imagine: I encountered a boy who was not even 15 years old who was carrying a weapon, but without ammunition (âŠ). When I saw this heroic impetuousness, I pulled my magazine out and gave it to him.
Kamal: Oh God! God is great!
Al-Anbari: I also saw a young guy who bravely stood up to the Americans and threw things at them, and they just couldnât react to it, even though they were so many.
Kamal: Such news strengthen ones pride. (our translation)
#1
If there's one lesson that is carried away from Mogadishu, it's that when insurgents use human shields, we must fire directly through them. Our soldiers' lives are worth more than either the hostage or (especially) the insurgent's.
A living soldier will better protect more Iraqi people by remaining alive. Once human shields are mown down indiscriminately, they may not be willing to participate so readily and might even resist attempts at being taken hostage. Until then, they will be cut in half by gunfire.
The cowardly actions of insurgents are not our fault.
The self inflicted Palestinian Intifada is costing the Palestinian economy US $11 billion, according to PA figures published in Gaza Thursday, Globes reported. I wasnât aware that the Paleos had an economy, other recycling humanitarian aid into suicide boomers.
Unemployment in the Gaza Strip and West Bank stands at 50%. The figures quoted by Globes also indicate that 84% of the Palestinian population lives in poverty.
The reportâs Palestinian authors call the present circumstances as the worst in history of the Palestinians in the territories. Average per capita income for Palestinians in the territories is now only $2 per day. Meanwhile Israel has far and away the highest GDP in the middle east excepting a couple of oil rich sheikdoms. I wonder why that is?
Posted by: Phil B ||
04/08/2004 8:32:37 PM ||
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Unemployment in the Gaza Strip and West Bank stands at 50%. The figures quoted by Globes also indicate that 84% of the Palestinian population lives in poverty.
The reportâs Palestinian authors call the present circumstances as the worst in history of the Palestinians in the territories. Average per capita income for Palestinians in the territories is now only $2 per day.
I guess this is what happens when you're no longer invited to the party anymore because you keep crapping on the carpet.
#2
Let us see....we will place the sample in the chamber, turn on the scanning electron microscope, adjust the screen, and voila:
The world's smallest violin at 0.2 microns long!
Got the picture. Print it out. Stuff it in an envelope [woops, almost forgot to draw the scale on the image]. Anyone got the address of the Paleostinian Authority?
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/08/2004 20:48 Comments ||
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#3
The figures quoted by Globes also indicate that 84% of the Palestinian population lives in poverty.
And yet the child they recently tried to use as a suicide bomber said he'd rather be playing on his computer or playing video games.
Guess their poverty is different from mine. Their morals certainly are.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
04/08/2004 21:08 Comments ||
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#4
pretty soon: worst case scenario - Paleos become congenitally incapable of living/supporting a "global - including Israel" economy
in which case subjugation and rehabilitation (on someone else's $) becomes the only option to extermination
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/08/2004 22:37 Comments ||
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We faced a force of four to five hundred rebels, with mortars, RPGs and various handheld weapons. There were four US soldiers---myself and the other people in my team----about twenty coalition soldiers, and thirty or so scared British and Aussie expats, including the British governor. The coalition soldiers had a couple tank/hybrid vehicles, but they didnât have much ammo for them. By midnight, everyone was running out. We kept impressing this on Higher, and they just couldnât get that through their heads. What the fuck good are they? We are running out of ammo. We will be over-run if light hits this place in the morning and finds us still here.
Posted by: Matt ||
04/08/2004 20:11 Comments ||
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#4
The Ukrainians have some BMP-types probably.
This was in Kut. I expect the small patrol in the compound didn't in fact have much ammo. They were cut off from resupply.
An ongoing report on Camp Pendleton Marines in Iraq from embedded North County Times (serving San Diego and Riverside) staffers Hayne Palmour and Darrin Mortenson
FALLUJAH, Iraq ---- As the sun set on Fallujah Wednesday, Cobra gunships swooped over the heads of Marines, firing rockets into buildings where U.S. troops have been battling insurgents for days.
Troops cheered the helicopter attack, which could have signaled progress against a stubborn enemy that had so far limited the Marinesâ advance into the heart of the city.
snip
This is the best coverage Iâve found on the day-to-day happenings in FALLUJAH
#1
nctimes is a pretty good regional (i.e. not big-city) newspaper
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/08/2004 17:24 Comments ||
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#2
This is the best coverage I too have come across. Many of these marines just left in February and are on their second tour. These are the same marines that brought over a couple of shipping containers of donated fire fighting equipment and 15,000 frisbees to hand out help win the hearts of some of these folks. This is not the turn of events they had been hoping for but lets hope they get a chance to do some "mind changing" ... These guys and gals are truly "best freinds and worst enemies"
#4
I saved the link on my favorites. All the Vet's in the Paint Shop are passing around the articles.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/08/2004 20:32 Comments ||
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#5
Marines reported killing dozens of insurgents during the long night as tanks and AC-130 Specter gunships blasted away with cannon and Gatling guns at groups of men massing in the city. Marine commanders refused to say how many insurgents they had killed or wounded.
The Specters are on the job (unlike the senator of the same name...)
A first-person account of the fighting by a female soldier posted at LiveJournal. Canât tell who she is, or where this was supposed to have happened, but it feels genuine. Seriously EFL.
At about four AM the other day, the coalition force rode out the gate and took back the town. At nine thirty we rolled out, arrived at our usual destination, and by ten thirty, we were under fire. We were in a compound of five or six major buildings, large enough to be hotels, not quite large enough to be palaces, that had once been owned by Chemical Ali.
We started out on the roofs, looking for snipers. But RPGs and mortar fire forced us down and as we retreated, the shooters started hitting the building more often because they were walking their weapons closer. Eventually, our safe area was reduced to just one hallway in a central building. . . .
. . . hug a chopper pilot, okay? Those guys saved my butt. That was the big thing keeping me and the rest of us alive. I hated how nobody thought it worth mentioning that we fought off this huge attack with a small force and then snuck away without any casualties on the site. One coalition soldier died elsewhere in that town that day, but we got really, really lucky. And thatâs scary in itself.
So go hug a chopper pilot. Iâve been getting teary-eyed every time I see one go by. . . .
Good luck, good hunting, and get home safe.
Posted by: Mike ||
04/08/2004 3:28:05 PM ||
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#1
Duh-OH! Duplicate post--please delete. Sorry about that.
Posted by: Mike ||
04/08/2004 15:35 Comments ||
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From al-Guardian; EFL and to get to the good part:
"The Americans think we are afraid while we recognise them as cowards," said the young man, the commander of this small band of fighters in this village. "We have many heroes who are standing here and elsewhere. We will not be afraid of their tanks and their weapons and their other equipment. We will stay until we defeat them."
Suddenly the gunmen scattered, unnerved by the sound of an approaching US helicopter. "Buck-buck-braaawwwwwk!"
Villagers who had been standing in the street fled into their shops and houses and, within seconds, the crossroads was deserted.
Posted by: Mike ||
04/08/2004 3:19:36 PM ||
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#1
Actually, we are hoping that you are not afraid. Scared jihadis scatter like roaches, but big macho studs like yerself stand out in the open, doing yer F.A.D.* and making a nice target for Hellfires.
#6
"Suddenly the gunmen scattered, unnerved by the sound of an approaching US helicopter."and being a brave Jihad male begins looking for women and children to use as shields.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
04/08/2004 16:10 Comments ||
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#7
Oh, yes, you will be afriad. You will be very afraid. You know we will come after you. You know we will hunt you down, wherever you run, wherever you try to hide. We will chase you through the cities, and into the river and into the sea. We will follow you into the hills, and across the desert. We will follow you through the valleys and over the mountains. We will follow you, and we will catch you. Then we will make you wish you had never been born. We will destroy you so thoroughly even your god will not want you. And when we are done, we will turn our back upon you and walk away, because we know you have been destroyed, and you and your kind can never harm us again.
(I don't remember where I read that, but it should become the motto of every US military member serving in the Middle East).
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/08/2004 16:23 Comments ||
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#8
the brave arab fighter ...mommy can you please get your ass out front!
Posted by: Dan ||
04/08/2004 16:30 Comments ||
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#9
Brave? Possibly. Smart? Not entirely. I too hate when the scatter, itâs too much like âwhack-a-moleâ at that point. Be brave little jihadis and stay close in a group. Stand tall in the face of those big M1 Abrams rumbling towards you. Soon you will be speaking with Allah one-to-one and eating rasins.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
04/08/2004 20:11 Comments ||
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#13
"The Americans think we are afraid . . ."
I could care less what they feel we think of them. I just want these cowards to regard us as cold, effecient, methodical killers of every last one of them.
Verbatim exchange edited from Press Brief concerning the status of Blackwater personnel, currently contracted by teh State Depatment after 6/30.
QUESTION: Adam, considering that come July 1, the State Department will assume responsibility for American presence in Iraq, now there is a private army or a mercenary army of anywhere between 10 to 15,000 people, according to reports. Are you structuring some sort of regulations where these guys have to abide by them?
I have a follow-up on that.
MR. ERELI: When we take over, when it goes to an embassy, the embassy will be accredited to the government of Iraq and it will be the job of the government of Iraq to determine how its country is policed and the terms under which citizens exercise their civic rights -- civil rights. So the issue of private militias is something, I think, that after July 30th is a --
QUESTION: No, Iâm not talking about private -- Iâm not talking about private militia. Iâm talking about a mercenary army, an American mercenary army that is drawn from former Rangers, former Navy Seals, former Green Berets and so on, Blackwater. I mean, last night it was on Nightline. They spoke to the guy that runs the operation. He says he has anywhere between 10 to 15,000 people providing security.
MR. ERELI: I wouldnât call that a mercenary army. I would call --
QUESTION: Well, but theyâre saying that theyâre not abiding by any laws.
MR. ERELI: Whoâs they?
QUESTION: Well, these fellows. Theyâre --
MR. ERELI: Which fellows?
QUESTION: The guys that belong to Blackwater and --
MR. ERELI: Are saying they donât abide by any laws?touche
QUESTION: Well, apparently, they donât. They donât abide because the U.S. forces--
MR. ERELI: Iâm sorry, I canât get into a back and forth over something I havenât seen. I donâtâŠ
QUESTION: Have you -- have you looked into that?
MR. ERELI: Hereâs the point. Hereâs the point. After July 30th --
QUESTION: June 30th.
MR. ERELI: June 30th, excuse me. After June 30th, there will be -- the American forces look forward to, I think, remaining in Iraq in cooperation with the Iraqi government to help the Iraqi government and people provide security and stability in that country.
They will be operating in conjunction and cooperation and with the approval of the Iraqi authorities. And thatâs the kind of arrangement thatâs going to govern everybody operating in Iraq. And I kind of reject the suggestion that there are mercenary armies running around unchecked and out of control, at least that are Americans, in Iraq.
QUESTION: They call them security contractors --
MR. ERELI: I reject it. Thank you.
I applaud this thorough spanking as delivered to the anonymous reporter by Mr Ereli. [Holds lighter aloft. Thumbs striker to lite flame. Waves arm back and forth]
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/08/2004 3:18:59 PM ||
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#1
Any word on who our intrepid reporter was? The mercenary black helicopter squadron might need a name and address.
#2
TU, I couldn't tell from the transcript. The video might show the asshat. Do you get the impression he came to the briefing with an anti-military ax to grind?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/08/2004 15:37 Comments ||
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#3
Do you get the impression he came to the briefing with an anti-military ax to grind?
Don't they all?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/08/2004 15:42 Comments ||
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#5
unfortunately someone that prejudiced and dense won't understand when they've just been spanked: "he kicked my ass all the way to Tikrit wouldn't answer my question"
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/08/2004 17:18 Comments ||
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#1
I damn sure hope the Japaneese are thinking about Korea and Red China while they decide what move to make in regards their captives. I would advise massive reenforcements and active, even agressive patroling.
Two more US marines were killed Thursday by snipers in the Sunni hotspot town of Fallujah, west of Baghdad, where US troops were meeting with ferocious resistance as they pressed on with the offensive against insurgents.
Marines in Fallujah inched forward block by block taking sniper fire and hit-and-run attacks with mortars and rocket-propelled grenades which have limited their advance in more than three days to just two kilometres through an industrial zone which they had thought was largely abandoned.
The thud of mortar rounds echoed around the town and plumes of smoke dotted the landscape. Machine-gun fire rattled through the streets as F-16 warplanes buzzed overhead carrying out surveillance.
"This is like Hue city in Vietnam," said Lieutenant Colonel Brennan Byrne, a battalion commander, referring to the former imperial capital where in 1968 US troops faced the the most ferocious street fighting of the communists' decisive Tet offensive.
The insurgents in Fallujah seem to be numerous, well-prepared and well-trained. This MAY be the final battle against the Baathists and their allies who have been eluding direct battle for the last year. Its looking like a hard slog, and may take weeks.
Re Karbala:
The US army also rushed 120 troops to reinforce 480 beleaguered Bulgarian troops in the Shiite holy city of Karbala, where fierce fighting broke out after armed radicals gave them an ultimatum to quit.
No mention of Poles. Looks like Sanchez is carefully rationing his forces, continuing the cleansing of Sadr city, and sending enough Americans to reinforce the Slavs to maintain the defensive position in Karbala.
#6
A little history. We lost something like 1500 + Marines during Tet. Militarily it was a disaster for the VC and NVA, Politically due to people like today's Kennedy and Kerry, the enemy decided to fight on because they were encouraged by the left in this country.
Fallujah is not Hue, but Senators Kennedy and Kerry are just as dangerous as their counterparts in 1968. The insurgents are quoting these two right now, and that should tell us who we should vote for in November.
Finally, the insurgents may be well prepared and armed, but they do not have armor, air cover or time on their side.
Prediction they will run out food, ammo and bodies (not necessarily in that order) in the not too distant future.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
04/08/2004 22:41 Comments ||
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BAGHDAD -- Moqtada al-Sadr, the fiery Shi'ite cleric whose militia has been at the center of this week's violence in Iraq, complains that the Americans have broken their promises of democracy by ordering his newspaper closed -- the action nearly two weeks ago that sparked protests, then armed assaults.
Coalition officials say Sadr is suspected of worse. This week they arranged a news briefing with the investigating Iraqi judge who has built a murder case against the cleric in the April 10, 2003, death of Abdel-Majid al Khoei. US officials had brought Khoei back to Iraq when Baghdad fell last year in hopes that he would be the leading moderate voice among Shi'ites.
The judge, whose name wasn't given because officials feared he'd be assassinated, said that he built the murder case against Sadr on facts and that he was under no political pressure to reach his findings. He said he interviewed "many, many" witnesses and that autopsy evidence collaborated their statements.
Baghdad CSI is on the case.
According to the judge, Khoei was meeting with other Shi'ites at the Grand Imam Ali Shrine in Najaf when Sadr's supporters attacked him, shooting him in the hand. They then dragged him through the entrance, stabbing and beating him. At one point, the judge said, Khoei ran to Sadr's office in the shrine compound, but the younger cleric refused to let him inside and locked the door. So Khoei took sanctuary with a nearby merchant, where he fell unconscious from his wounds. Upon learning Khoei was still alive, the judge said, Sadr sent his followers to the shop with these orders: "Take him from here and kill him in your own special way."
"Rid me of this troublesome cleric!"
A mob then supposedly descended on Khoei and dragged him unconscious by the feet down some concrete stairs, his head banging on the steps. They stopped 50 yards from the shrine and a Sadr follower finished him off with an AK-47 shot to the head.
"You're fired!"
Posted by: Steve ||
04/08/2004 11:57:55 AM ||
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AS violence in Iraq dominates the news, imagine a Middle Eastern country in which the government works in simple offices and spends its money on education, a state in which the prime minister still lives in his parentsâ home and builds libraries instead of palaces.
How about a Middle East in which young men and women study together at a university where no political party rules the campus, freedom of speech is encouraged and internet access is unrestricted.
Try, if you can, to imagine a Middle Eastern population that regards America with respect and gratitude.
It isnât a dream. Itâs a reality.
Welcome to free Kurdistan.
As my former comrades in the military struggled against terror and violent rebellion in central and southern Iraq, I was embarrassingly safe in the same country. While mortar rounds were landing in Baghdad and our military displayed its power and resolve in Fallujah, I was sweating in a traffic jam.
It was a great traffic jam. In this case, it was a sign of the economic progress the Kurdis have been making. And the only "terrorist" is the occasional lousy driver.
People walk the streets and live their lives without fear. And women arenât attacked for dressing as they choose.
The Kurdish capital city of Suleimaniye can seem like a giant construction site. But in place of the corruption that plagues development elsewhere in the region, much of the work is done under rigorous government-private sector partnerships. The Kurds are even implementing zoning codes and thinking about the environment.
Anyone who has ever been to the Middle East knows that this is just short of a miracle. The prime minister, Dr. Barham Salih, doesnât fit the pattern either. Instead of fearing him or hating him, the people love him - heâs the closest thing Kurdistan has to a matinee idol. And instead of using his popularity to enrich himself or establish a ruling dynasty, heâs encouraging democracy. (Heâs even had a kebab shop named after him. Iâm still waiting for Bush Burgers in D.C.)
The University of Suleimaniye, devastated by Saddam, has been rebuilt and now has over 7,000 students. And theyâre a lively bunch - serious, hardworking and, most important, full of probing questions. Female students can choose for themselves whether or not to wear headscarves. Most choose not to - but everyone respects everyone else - and they all sit and study together. American parents of college-age sons and daughters could only envy the intensity and hunger with which these young people pursue education.
Go to that university and, instead of hearing anti-American protests, youâll hear how the 101st Airborne Division got their Dell computers through to them, red tape be damned. On how many campuses in the world do the students regard an American general (in this case, Maj. Gen. Dave Petraeus) as a hero?
The United Nations stole the money the Kurds should have received under Saddam. Now, the United States has redirected the remaining Oil-for-Food funds and the Kurds are using them with an efficiency never before seen in the region. Astonishingly, the money is really going to the people. Instead of the U.N.âs outdated, overpriced medicine, the Kurds can now bargain hard in the marketplace for the goods the people desperately need.
Most importantly, instead of succumbing to the culture of blame that plagues the Middle East, the Kurds have gone to work to build a better future.
Their country is still very poor. But itâs free. And freedom really does work.
Business is encouraged, the government stresses the future, not the past, and the leaders are trying their best to work constructively with old enemies. De- spite horrific suffering in the recent past, the leaders are hopeful, not vengeful. They know that a unified Iraq may not work - but theyâre determined that the failure will not be their fault. And they cherish freedom.
Isnât this what we claim we want in the Middle East?
At a time when elements within both Sunni Arab and Shiâa Arab Iraqi society are trying to kill the Americans who liberated their country and when there is no sense of gratitude for our sacrifices, how can the Bush administration fail to grasp that the future of the region lies in what the Kurds have done successfully, not in the Arab cult of failure?
The Kurds are far from perfect. So are we. Weâre all human. But this small people deserves our respect and support - no matter what else happens in Iraq. If we truly want to help spread freedom, we have to start by backing those who have made freedom work - against tremendous odds.
Almost 100 years ago, Lincoln Steffens, an American charlatan, returned from the brand-new Soviet Union. Disembarking from his ship on a New York City pier, he told a great lie. A radical socialist, he said, "I have seen the future, and it works." I hope Iâm more honest than Steffens was, but Iâll paraphrase his words and say, "Iâve seen what the future of the Middle East could be. And we should all hope to God that it works."
Ralph Peters is the author of "Beyond Baghdad: Postmodern War and Peace."
Posted by: tipper ||
04/08/2004 11:56:32 AM ||
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#1
Cut these people loose from the Arabs.
Freedom. They get it and they obviously know what to do with it. The difference between the Kurds and the Iraqi Arabs defines stark.
As a whole, the Arabs are perverse freaks of nature. They manage to combine a wide range of self-defeating and dead-end traits into a confabulation of blame and chronic self-cuckoldry -- a singular regression of the human condition -- and this they call their society.
The Iraqi Arabs, again as a whole, sadly meet the Arab "standard" as defined. The exceptions, and we know there are, indeed, outstanding examples - should leave. Go North, young man, go North!
As for the rest, just recall the picture of their outstanding "moderate" "leader" Sistani. He lives in the Caliphate of his mind. He defines insane. Chalabi? He's one of the more successful schemers of our age - and defines untrustworthy and duplicitous. The rest of the GC? Others, such as the Tribal Leaders? Is there a Jefferson or Washington in the lot? Is there a Saddam or ten?
Partition.
Forcing the Kurds to wait for the Iraqi Arabs to get a clue, much less change, is akin to shackling them to mankind's lepers.
#2
I wonder if Murat or Aris would welcome an independent Kurdish state?
What would the argument against a Kurdish state be?
Posted by: Les Nessman ||
04/08/2004 13:39 Comments ||
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#3
Great post, tipper.
Right on, .com. I've always liked the Kurds, generally speaking. They will do a lot better if they're self-governed--but then, wouldn' t the Arab whackos just get jealous and accuse them of stealing Iraqi "wealth" and prosperity?
#4
It is gratifying to see what the Kurds have done, even when they were only getting protection from the no-fly zones in the 90s. I have real problems with people who give their kids scalp wounds that cause bleeding all over (the Shiites). In most of the world, this is child abuse and the law would be all over you for doing it. That is only one symptom of that sick society.
My intuition says that we are giving Iraq our best effort at having representative constitutional government (democracy is the wrong word and is misused). It is an uphill battle. But if the Sunnis and Shiites cannot get their sh-t together, partition will take place. GW is not going to walk away from the Kurds. They are achieving what we are setting out to do in all of Iraq. If the Iraqis want a better life, they better starting choosing sides and run the Riff-Raff Rat Club out of town.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/08/2004 14:22 Comments ||
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#5
This ppl deserve there own country,we should really give them one.
#6
ex-lib - You bet they would, a perfect "Arab" response, in fact.
AP - I hope you're right about Dubya, but first we have to get him re-elected. Prez Skeery would echo the Arab response ex-lib points out, and prolly propose a "busing" type of policy: drag everyone down to the Lowest Common Denominator, rather than make the Arabs clean up their own mess. Just opinion based upon Donk history.
#8
.com---that thing with Kerry and the dems is EXACTLY what I fear most. They do that with everything. Like in civil engineering with cut and fill, you take off the hill and put it in the hole and everything is average. The LLL takes off the top down to the level of the hole and then walks away. /analogy
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/08/2004 15:11 Comments ||
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#9
Les
arguments against a Kurdish state
1. Breaking up Iraq, will be seen across the arab world as against their interests, and will confirm what the antiamericans are saying, that this was an invasion to break up an arab country. IF you think that we need to worry about arab hearts and minds, this is a big consideration. If not, not.
2. Pulling the Kurds, the most democratic and secular element, out of Iraq, substantially increases the odds that the rest of Iraq will end up as neither secular nor democratic. IF you still think the project of establishing Iraqi democracy is viable, this is a big issue. If not, not.
3. What borders for kurdistan??? Kurdistan with only the 3 governorates that were under Kurdish control prior to Op Iraqi Freedom is A. Weak economically and B. Unable to protect the interests of fellow Kurds in Kirkuk. OTOH an independent Kurdistan that included Kirkuk is A. Subject to an ongoing intifidah by non-Kurds (Turkmen, Sunni Arabs, and Assyrian Christians) in Kirkuk. B. Reliant on US protection from a. Turkey b. Rest of Iraq
All in all, from the US POV, its a big mess, and worth going for only as a last resort, and questionable even then.
The best answer is to have the Kurds INSIDE Iraq, remaking Iraq in their image.
#11
. OTOH an independent Kurdistan that included Kirkuk is A. Subject to an ongoing intifidah by non-Kurds (Turkmen, Sunni Arabs, and Assyrian Christians) in Kirkuk. B. Reliant on US protection from a. Turkey b. Rest of Iraq
Though I suspect Kirkuk would get pacified rather quickly and brutally, I have to agree with the rest, especially wrt Turkey. Talk about reviving 'Byzantine'! I'd also add Iran to the mix.
#12
Continue to let the Kurds amass monetary wealth and political influence. While Shiite and Sunni insurgents decimate their own populations, cities and internal economies, the Kurds will merely gain even greater preeminence. All the better for whatever pluralistic government rises from Iraq's ashes.
EFL:
Palestinian fedayeen fighters have joined the ranks of the rebel Mahdi Army militia in recent days, militia leaders here told The Jerusalem Post Wednesday. The coalition forces accuse nutbag firebrand Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army of stirring up a rebellion in a swath of predominately Shi'ite cities in the center and south of the country that led to more than 100 Iraqi and 20 coalition forces' deaths. Some 25 Palestinian fighters volunteered as suicide bombers against American troops, Sa'id Amr al-Husseini, one of Sadr's leading lieutenants said Wednesday at the headquarters of the Mahdi Army in Sadr City, Baghdad's largest Shi'ite neighborhood. "Yesterday the Palestinians came to these headquarters and expressed their desire to be martyrs, ready for sacrifice at the order of the Hawza," Husseini said.
OK, welcome to the kill zone.
I'm guessing this is the same flavor of Paleo that supported Sammy when he took over Kuwait, a fifth column that came crawling out of the woodwork. That resulted in the Paleos' expulsion from Kuwait, amid wails of anguish from the Washington Post. It would probably be a really good idea to give all the Paleos in Iraq 24 hours to get out of Dodge, but I doubt we'll do it.
The Hawza is Iraq's leading Shi'ite clerical order, believed to wield immense power among Shi'ites. The Mahdi Army's claim could not be independently confirmed, though Sunni leaders are increasingly willing to share in the "glory of jihad with the Shi'ites," said Abd Satar Jabani, imam of Baghdad's largest Wahhabi mosque on Tuesday.
Sunni's will fight till the last Shiite.
In the complex tangle of Iraqi politics, Saddam Hussein's abuse of the Shi'ite majority and his championing of the Palestinians made natural enemies of the two groups. But Husseini, using the catchword of "united jihad," said the war against the American occupiers has brought Iraqis, Sunni and Shi'ite, "together for martyrdom."
Don't forget the Iranians.
Sheikhs, tribal leaders, even businessmen have crowded into his cramped office since the start of the Shi'ite insurrection to offer, money, guns, and food to the outlawed militia, he said. At the militia's stronghold in Sadr City, black clad militiamen strut in and out, antique knives tucked into their trousers, pistols stuffed into belt loops.
The SS with turbans
Any Hitler Youth knives?
Husseini blamed the the bloodshed on the coalition forces. But internal pressure for a cease-fire among Shi'ites is mounting, even as clashes resumed Wednesday night. Shi'ite clerics, tribal sheikhs, and even Governing Council members are sending countless missives to Sadr in an effort to broker a cease-fire that would end the bloodshed. Sadr, holed up in Najaf, has balked. He will not fight, he said in a statement Wednesday. His fate will be "either assassination and martyrdom or arrest." Sadr's brinkmanship and the coalition's determination to rid Iraq of the Mahdi Army's brownshirts semi-organized confederations of outlaw fighters has disrupted what had been cordial US-Shi'ite relations.
He jumped the gun, his masters in Iran will not be pleased.
While fighting raged in Fallujah and Ramadi, there were signs the Shi'ite uprising might be close to burning itself out. A new poster crowned the Mahdi Army fort here â a portrait of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. It was a gesture aimed both at paying lip service to moderate Shi'ite leaders and recruiting of a broader segment of Shi'ite for Sadr's swelling army. After four straight days of bloody battles in which an estimated 150 Shi'ites and about a dozen coalition troops lost their lives, Husseini's office hummed with activity. He handed out $100 bills to followers out of a bulky black plastic bag.
Wonder where that money came from?
Simultaneously, he dealt with a delegation of three Shi'ite tribal leaders urging calm. Scanning a fax, he begrudgingly acquiesced to their demands: that the Mahdi Army cease fire and allow police to return to their stations. In exchange, US tanks, guns pointed at Husseini's office 400 meters away, would leave, and no harm would come to Sadr.
I doubt we were included in this negotiation.
Sadr is wanted by the coalition forces both for links to the murder of another Shi'ite cleric last April and for fomenting the current uprising. To the press, Husseini vowed to step up the jihad "to the last drop of blood," even though "we are a peaceful group."
Oh, we can see that...
"The quiet you see now, during the day, is misleading. The Americans come at night, with tanks, and that is when the fighting takes place," he said. He made no mention of concessions, no reference to compromise.
Humm, is Sadr running the show or is it Husseini with Sadr as front man?
Why don't we nail one of them and find out?
Not that they have much choice. Coalition forces here have essentially given up negotiating with Sadr, essentially declaring war. For his part Sadr refused to back down, too proud to lose face among his people.
If he backs down now he's a putz and one of his own will bump him off. The penalty for failure is death. It's the code of Boskone... Or SPECTRE. Or one of those groups...
But sources in the Governing Council said late Wednesday that they are working on a plan to end the Shi'ite impasse. Shiekh Abdel Karim al-Mahameidi, a Governing Council member from the marshlands in the south, said his group would send a delegation to Sadr's base in Najaf on Thursday to stop the bloodshed. Just steps away from the Mahdi Army fort Wednesday afternoon, two old men leaned against a bullet-pocked wall. They were watching youths at the little compound's gates chant: "We will die for you, O Sadr."
Yeah. And "Saddam, we will defend you with our blood!" Where's Saddoun Hamadi these days?
"Really," said Kaddum Abdullah, who said he was 50, but looked 80. "We are tired from Saddam. The US came here to free us, so that is what we want them to do; enough of this fighting." A boy distributing posters of a scowling Sadr walked up and offered the men one. A reporter gladly took one and stuffed it into his bag. The old men politely declined. "No thank you," said the second man, "we see enough of him already."
Posted by: Steve ||
04/08/2004 10:39:43 AM ||
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#1
Pray Tell: 1.) Why is the Mahdi Army's fortress still standing? 2.)Why are the tank guns, pointing at Husseini's office, not blazing?
What's with these restrictive rules of engagement?! The simple fact that 5 marines had to be shot yesterday before they were cleared to bomb the mosque perpetuates the myth that the US is not willing to do what is necessary to win this war!!!
#3
Our armament needs to take out the office, no matter who is in it. Lop off the head, and the body will flop around and quiver until it quits. We must send an unequivocal and strong message now. Being nice and fair is being perceived as weak. Middle East Anthropology 101.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/08/2004 11:48 Comments ||
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#5
I'm not sure I agree. Intel may have word that the Sadr brigade is running low of food, etc. in which case, a bit of waiting is in order. From everything reported so far, the sadr brigades are not super organized and may well be vulnerable to siege type tactics.
#6
The most important holiday on the Shiite calendar occurs on Monday. The areas around Najaf and Karbala are going to be overrun with Shiite faithful. I heard that the CPA already said that they are not going to be able to provide security becuase of Sadr. They certainly don't want to carry out a major military campaign in the middle of this religous celebration. That would only kill a lot of innocent Shiites and hamper our ability to pacify that community in the future.
The money portion of the story is the last paragraph. The older folks are sick if the seethe program. They and most people want to get on with life. Be patient. We will deal with Sadr, but on our schedule, not his.
Posted by: remote man ||
04/08/2004 12:19 Comments ||
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#7
On FoxNews right now there's a NewsWeek reporter who's just left Najaf (wonder why?) saying that the Madhi's took some goodies from the Police stations there: guns, uniforms, and flak jackets, in particular.
This will make ID'ing the bad guys more difficult when the Shi'a's ding-dong festival ends and we move back in.
#8
Remote Man, It seeme like the to CPA could just blcokade the few major roads headed into the holy cities out in a unpopulated area. I don't know th elay of the land, though.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/08/2004 14:30 Comments ||
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#9
We certainly do not want the Iranian operatives Shiite pilgrims⢠to miss their Monday love-in at Najaf and Karbala. I apologize in advance for my cultural insennnnnnnnnsitivity.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
04/08/2004 15:43 Comments ||
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#10
Yes! we are now the very model of a New Mahdi Army.
Posted by: Abu Cromwell ||
04/08/2004 16:04 Comments ||
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#11
Look to pilgrims either re-inforcing Shiites in the mosque or acting as human shields.
Posted by: John Simmins ||
04/08/2004 16:28 Comments ||
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#12
SH - Marines have definitely cordoned off Fallujah, and it seems that US Army has cordoned off Sadr City. Not sure of other towns. An effective cordon will have to be more complete than just main roads, IIUC. That takes troops. I presume the commander on the ground will attempt to cordon off the biggest troop concentrations, then defeat the enemy in detail.
#13
LH, if the following is true, then it appears that Fallujah is leaky - at least inbound. I hope they don't let these jokers back out, that would be adding insult to injury.
#14
Lux - i guess they werent going to use weapons against civilians, purportedly carrying food and medicines (I presume ammo got in as well, but presumably nothing big)
#15
Personally, I don't give a rats about being sennnnsitive (hat tip to Savage) with these idiots, but I also don't want to stir up more angst within the populace. Lux's link is a good indication of what I mean.
When we kill the civs, the locals get pissed. We just need to be careful and kill the fighters as much as possible. That is our current SOP. We need to stick to it.
Posted by: remote man ||
04/08/2004 16:51 Comments ||
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#16
They operate behind the innocent because they believe we will not risk killing them. This strategy is only employed against armies that have western values.
The correct response is the moab. Demonstrate there is no way to fight a moab, and civilian shields are not an effective strategy.
As for upsetting the people, these people lived through Saddam. They know whats at stake.
#17
We should not lay off the pressure while their recharging, they're not going to stop once their organized. We don't have much time left until we drop this in the lap of the new Iraqi government.
We haven't seen anything yet, wait until June or July when everyone under the sun is grabbing for power or contesting the election. We might as well hit these hostiles real hard and clean, right now.
#18
PS-Better that we found out they were planning an Irannian style revolution the whole time, instead of after the elections when they really built up the militia.
EFL
An Iraqi group has kidnapped three Japanese hostages, including one woman, and promised to burn them alive if Japan does not withdraw its forces from Iraq. Al Jazeera television help to film screened a video today showing three Japanese heros dressed in civilian clothes. They are believed to be two journalists and an aid worker Bad move.
The television said a statement by the hitherto unknown Iraqi terrorist group called Saraya al-Mujahideen had given Japan three days from the airing of the video to withdraw its troops from Iraq before it killed the hostages. I think someone needs to review the history of Japanese warfare. They just might be fâin with the wrong country.
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
04/08/2004 10:16:48 AM ||
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#1
Please delete Fred. I am a wanker. Just saw earlier post.
#2
and yet, John Kerry calls the Imam who's giving the go-ahead to these "militants"...
"...a legitimate voice in Iraq."
immediately correcting himself afterwards with, "... Well, let me ... change the term âlegitimate.â ..."
but then following up with, "Not if itâs an isolated act without the other kinds of steps necessary to change the dynamics on the ground in Iraq,"
How many "isolated incidents" and "fringe groups" threatening to burn Japanese hostages alive, need to strung together before before the message penetrates the layers of botox and frozen facial muscles, and get into his brain?
How can anyone vote for a man who is so eager to condemn his own country's actions, and yet use the word "legitimate" in the same sentence, or even the same paragraph as anyone who would exort his countrymen to take the kind of actions that groups like these are? When was the last time that President Bush said, "Unless all terorist activities against the U.S. stops, we'll burn all of the inmates at Gt'mo alive!"
Sorry, gang. This is more like an anti-Kerry rant, I guess. I saw him on CNN and Cavuto last night before I went to sleep, and I guess it left a bad taste till now. Still, if the shoe fits....
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
04/08/2004 14:38 Comments ||
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#7
Something tells me that Allah might take a pretty dim view of barbecuing living human beings.
Regardless of what the Islamic deity thinks, I know how American special forces regard such barbarity, and I would not want to one of the hostage takers when this is finished. I doubt any of them will be breathing after the next few days are over.
Since these hostage takers are Shiite, I suggest we merely hold their most holy shrines hostage. Destroying them is for future consideration. No one goes in or out of the Karbala Mosque containing (the grandson of Mohammed) Hussein's tomb for one solid year. Next year's pilgrimage will have no final destination and all because of Shiite barbarism. I do not care if American troops remain stationed for the duration to enforce it. Mine the location if necessary and cordon it off with razor wire. There is no reason to play fair against those who are without compunctions regarding the slaughter of civilians.
Should continued atrocities and mutilations occur, perhaps a few lesser shrines get dynamited as war forsaken monuments to so much barbarity. The Shiites are walking over thin ice on a hot day. We are dealing with religious fanatics who count upon their enemy's aversion to extreme violence. I consider holding their religious sites hostage as one of the only ways to pacify such resistance. It may enrage them, but after having a few of their lesser holy sites demolished, they'll realize that Hussein's Tomb is endangered by their own atrocities and stop.
If they refuse to stop, then the world's Shiite population must confront the fact that their own intransigent reliance upon barbarity resulted in destruction of a most holy site. I refuse to have any mercy for these ungrateful wretches. They have shown none and deserve none in return.
The Shiites shall not simultaneously enjoy renewed civil and religious liberties only to turn around and attack those who secured them because they have been "invaded." This sort of hypocritical nonsense will exact severe penalties if pursued.
People are quick to think that what is happening in Iraq is about a revolt of all Shiites against allied occupational forces. In reality, however, supporters of the 24 year-old Imam Muqtada Al-Sadr, are composed of a faction of unhappy citizens, most with ties to the old Iraqi regime and Iran. Moreover inspiring the revolt led by the young imam are many cases of personal vendettas and power struggles. This is what we learn from an interview conducted with Wael Al-Rukadi, vice-secretary general of the Council of Iraqi Tribes. Wael, 42, lives in the Shiite-majority town of Nassiriyah, where the Italian military is headquartered in Iraq. In the past, Wael was a journalist. After the fall of the Hussein government he took up politics. During an exclusive phone interview with AsiaNews, Wael expresses solidarity with Italian forces in Nassiriyah and said that a withdrawal foreign troops before any power transition "would only lead to chaos".
The media are talking about a "Shiite revolt". Does such unity exist among Shiites in support of Imam Muqtada Al-Sadr?
Absolutely not. Sayyed (the imam's honorary title) Muqtada Al-Sadr does not enjoy the total support of all Shiites. On the contrary, many Shiites are against him. Most Shiites are do not support him and thus keep their distance.
What makes him capable of threatening Iraq's internal stability?
Weapons. He supporters resort to force and weapons. This explains why the whole press is talking about him.
Why is Sayyed Al-Sadr filled with so much hatred for the Coalition and PGC?
Underlying everything is his wish to take part in the PGC, from which he and his followers have been excluded. I think that his inability to become noticed and carry out his desires is one reason behind his hatred. Sayyed Al-Sadr's wishes to destabilize the internal situation. And this explains why he has attempted escape from a court order for his capture on charges of homicide. Finally there is another reason: that of external forces, which in his opinion, are trying to destabilize the country.
Which external forces does he refer to?
To Iran. And to Iranian secret service agents present wherever in Shiite regions. Iranian intelligence travel around freely. They have power in the media and a very strong influence in a certain press publication.
Imam Muqtada Al-Sadr, however, rejects Shiite and Persian Margia'a (infallible spiritual leaders). He tends to create one composed of only Arab leaders⊠What is your opinion?
A Shiite becomes a Margia'a when he is worthy of being followed and is well-learned. He is also someone who sets exemplar moral and spiritual standards, in the sense that he can serve as a model to others. Muqtada Al-Sadr, has no possibility of becoming a Margia'a. He's too young, not wise enough and does not have a high level of education. The little support he enjoys comes from some imams in mosques and from other forces, which are in union with him for totally political and non-religious motives. The people of Falluja, for example, want to magnify the so-called "Intifada" or people's revolt, which in reality doesn't exist. With such actions they are trying to force Coalition troops to leave Iraq, and this really makes me laugh. However the growing number of victims will increase a boomerang effect against them. Soon people will begin to express their own refusal to follow Sayyed Muqtada Al-Sadr's actions.
Is there support for Al Sadr from within the country?
A minority of hot-headed youth between the ages of 20-25 stand behind him. In terms of Shiite support, there are made up of faithful followers of his father, Imam Mohamed Sadek Al-Sadr. Yet no political party or Iraqi Shiite organization supports him. Sayyed Al-Sadr gathers support from the old system, the BAATH party oligarchy, which remains outside positions of government power, like him.
It's strange to see an alliance between a Shiite advocate and ex-BAAS Party members. But the latter are willing to join hands with devil, even for obtaining their own political goals.
Who can calm down the young rebellious Imam?
Surely Ayatollah Sayyed Ali Al-Sistani. The Ayatollah is known for his rejection of violence and for resolving problems peacefully. A firm decision on his part would immediately cause As-Sadr's followers to withdraw their support.
Ayatollah Al-Sistani has urged people to stay calm. But why does he delay in making a firm intervention?
I believe ayatollah Al-Sistani is against all inter-Shiite division. He's a calm and wise man. He prefers not getting involved in hopeless diatribes. Before stating his opinion he wants to be certain of the sure obedience to his mandates by Sayyed Muqtada Al-Sadr's followers. It's clear that a peaceful solution should concur with some concessions by Coalition forces. This can be found in the release of some innocent prisoners or by considering giving a role to Sayyed Muqtada Al-Sadr's minority group in the PGC, assigning them power according to popular vote. Democratically speaking, if he were really to have the support of voters, even Sayyed Al-Sadr could play a political role in the future government. The Americans must make some concessions so that Iraqi's don't feel humiliated.
As a Shiite how do you view the presence of foreign troops in Iraq?
Any withdrawal of foreign troops from Iraq at this time before a transition of power, elections and return to stability would only lead to chaos and all-out civil war in Iraq.
But Italian carabinieri troops were attacked in NassiriyahâŠ
The Italian soldiers are much loved by the people of Nassiriyah. Triggering the violent incidents were people from the outside, to be exact, from Falluja and the western part of the country. These were actually people from Falluja who brought sophisticated weapons to the city. "The (Italian) soldiers never opened fire first nor did they act as the aggressors. They only defended themselves.
I'll say it again: Italian soldiers are much loved by our people. The local population is in favor of returning to stability and the disarmament of those troops who shouldn't be in possession of weapons.
Posted by: Steve ||
04/08/2004 9:59:35 AM ||
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#2
Anonymous2U: I had a completely different take on this.
"Iranian secret service agents present (everywhere) in Shiite regions." Well, that's just peachy--no wonder they got problems.
"The people of Falluja want to magnify the so-called 'Intifada' or people's revolt, which in reality doesn't exist." Another "smoke and mirrors" presentation, courtesy of the mullah-American press.
"With such actions they are trying to force Coalition troops to leave Iraq, and this really makes me laugh." Yeah, me too.
"The Americans must make some concessions so that Iraqi's don't feel humiliated." Gotta let them at least think they're the big dogs. Good strategy.
"The local population is in favor of returning to stability and the disarmament of those troops who shouldn't be in possession of weapons." Our message is getting through! No weapons for idiots.
#4
Crush Sadr, dig out and expose the Iranians (the Iraqis still have hard feelings from the 1980-88 war), tie them to Sadr, and end the entire charade. It will bring significant stability to southern Iraq, and embarrass the monkeys wearing turbans in Tehran.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/08/2004 14:13 Comments ||
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here is a sampling of what the iraqi bloggers are saying------------------------
http://www.dear_raed.blogspot.com/ says
Every body, even the GC is very careful how they formulate their sentences and how they describe Sadirâs Militias. They are thugs, thugs thugs. There you have it.
----------------------------------
Iraq the Model says,
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
The coalition forcesâ spokesman declared that the coalition intends to arrest Muqtada and sue him for atrocities heâs accused of.... I prefer to see the IP capture him rather than the coalition soldiers because this -although maybe difficult- will show that Iraqis will stop who tries to harm our people and destroy our future even if heâs a cleric and even if he has many aggressive supporters.
------------------------------
Healing Iraq [zeyad is the link at the right] says,
Sadrâs aide and head of his office in Najaf, Qays Al-Khazâali, has declared the latest looting and killing spree going on in several Iraqi southern cities as an Intifada against the occupation. Speaking on behalf of Muqtada, he stated that they will certainly not calm down any soon because the Quran orders them not to; "Fight those who fight against you".... One of his aides claimed that a delegation from Sistani met with Sadr informing him that the leading Shiâite cleric supports Sadr and his followers and that their cause is legitimate. This contradicts Shitstaniâs statements yesterday, indicating that the old wizard is either suffering from senility or is playing his own dirty tricks. None of Sistaniâs agents have either denied or confirmed this claim, but they say that he will personally meet with Sadr tomorrow....I work in the Basrah governorate weeks ago, terrorizing IP officers, civil servants, and doctors but nobody was listening. I donât think I will be heading back there any soon now. What surprises me is the almost professional coordination of the uprisings in all of these areas. Iâm assuming, of course, that the money and equipment supplied by our dear Mullahs in Iran is being put to use good enough, not to mention the hundreds of Pasderan and Iranian intelligence officers.. sorry I mean Iranian Shia pilgrims that have been pouring into Iraq for months now.
...A couple of GC members have shyly spoken against the violence. Ayad Allawi (INA) first described the uprisings as being directed by âevil and dark forces who wish no prosperity for Iraqisâ, then he started beseeching his âbrotherâ Muqtada Al-Sadr to stay calm (Even he is scared from Sadrâs thugs?). SCIRI leader, Abdul Aziz Al-Hakim condemned the behaviour of occupation forces in killing civilians in Najaf and called for their punishment. The Iraqi Ministry of Justice stated that they had absolutely nothing to do with the arrest warrant for Muqtada Al-Sadr. And you want us to keep hope?
No one knows where it is all heading. If this uprising is not crushed immediately and those
militia not captured then there is no hope at all. If you even consider negotiations or appeasement, then we are all doomed.
Posted by: mhw ||
04/08/2004 10:07:40 AM ||
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#1
If you even consider negotiations or appeasement, then we are all doomed.
Then they probably are. While watching a news proggy before coming to work this morning, the little ticker at the bottom of the screen said that there were negotiations going on for Sadr to call off his followers. If there's any truth to this, then this development is NOT good. Losing nerve and chickening out is not the way to run a war, or an occupation.
#2
Deal with him and his boys NOW. With a bullet in the head. Then you won't have to deal with them anymore. The Iraqis have been here before and if we don't deal with this situation better then we did the first time we were over there, Iraq is gone. They'll never trust us again.
#3
Will I be proven as right about Iraq as I was proven right about Kosovo? I mentioned from the very start that the overthrow of Saddam, instead of being a blow against the Islamofascists. did nothing but pave the way for them to try and take control of it. If they were utterly crushed that'd be good ofcourse -- but it's now becoming obvious that the Coalition either doesn't have the forces or the will to do that.
In which case, the overthrow of Saddam did nothing but hand over Iraq to the Islamofascists on a platter.
The war against Sadr is as important and difficult -- possibly even more so -- as the war against Saddam. Saddam was a secular dictator that didn't belong to any kind of "axis of Terror" with Iran and Syria. Proof of it is that the chief terrorist organization (if they were indeed so, I've not studied their actions and history) he supported were the MEK who *opposed* the mullahs of Iran.
Sadr on the other hand would be an Islamofascist dictator who has already publicly declared his allegiance to such an axis with Syria and Iran.
#4
Aris> before you go patting yourself on the back, may want to review Gen Kimmit's & Gen Mattis' remarks. We have the will & the fire power. Sadr has too many enemies - even amongst his own people. If anything we're erring on the side of caution because of the bystander casualty prevention - as we always do. Let's give it some time before the "I told ya so's" comes out.
#5
Aris - And it was under Saddam that civil society in Iraq was destroyed, leaving what little political space the Baathists did not take up to the fundies. Relying on Saddam as a barrier to fundamentalism was never a long term strategy. Your post would seem to imply that IF the Iraqi people were to overthrow Saddam on their own, we should have opposed that, since such an overthrow would equally have handed iraq to the fundies "on a platter". The strategy of using secular dictators as a barrier, tried through the '80s and '90s, failed. We all saw it fail, on September 11, 2001. Thats why we determined to do something different.
And evidence from Iraq is that the fundies are NOT getting Iraw on a platter. The majority of Iraqi Shiites do NOT support Sadr, and we're seeing this being played out on the streets of Sadr City and elsewhere right now.
#6
Liberalhawk> If the Iraqi people were to overthrow Saddam on their own, then America wouldn't have had to spend more than half of its available troops in Iraq, when they could have been used to with far greater purpose in Syria or Iran.
The point isn't whether you should "rely" on Saddam as a barrier to fundamentalism, the same way that the point isn't to rely on Musharraf or Qaddafi.
The point is that Iraq under Saddam wasn't part of the global Islamofascist axis. Iraq under Sadr will be. It'd be the equivalent of the allies invading Spain during WW2, wasting half their troops in an effort to occupy Spain, just because Spain had Nazi sympaties, despite the fact of it not being an actual member of the nazi Axis.
If you had troops to spare, then by all means, overthrow every dictator in the world, install democracies -- I have no problems with it on a moral level.
#7
Jarhead> Let us hope you are right, and that Sadr will be killed or captured.
But any outcome that leaves Sadr alive and free will be an outcome that essentially leaves him in power -- a triumph for him, and a disaster for the secularists of Iraq.
#8
Aris> agreed on both counts. A great outcome would be if Sadr gets detained or neutralized by Iraqi police or ICDC para-military w/US as backing force. Better outcome is that he gets taken care of by rival Shiites. I see the first outcome having more chance though most likely it will be US troops doing the dirty work and hopefully we are savvy enough to give credit to the ICDC.
#9
First Baathism is form of Islamofascism, if that term is a meaningful reference to movements in the Islamic world that were based on fascism, and not just a snarky way of referring to fundamentalism. Second your reference to troops is NOT the point you made in your earlier post. Third we are not going around overthrowing dictatorships everywhere - we ARE doing so in a key strategic location in the heart of the Middle East, adjacent to Saudi, Syria and Iran.
Third where else would we be using troops - extra US troops would probably not be a good idea in Afghanistan.
You think US troops could have been used to better purpose in Syria or Iran. I disagree strongly. In Syria the majority of the population IS hostile to the US, and we would have had few if any friends on the ground. A US occupation of Syria would have been a grand disaster. Iran is gradually moving towards its own revolution. A US intervention there would have solidified support for the regime, given historic US-Iranian relations. Iran is a more open regime than Iraq, and the prospect for internal change considerable greater.
I would welcome a decision by Greece to invade Syria, however :)
Fourth, you say Sadr "will be" i doubt Sadr will take power.
Fifth, you compare Saddam to Perv. That is absurd, Perv has held elections, allows a vibrant press, opposition parties, etc.
#11
Liberalhawk> "First Baathism is form of Islamofascism, if that term is a meaningful reference to movements in the Islamic world that were based on fascism,"
It's not. It's a reference to fascist movements based on Islam. The Baath party even included Christians in it.
"and not just a snarky way of referring to fundamentalism. "
Snarky? For starters "Islamofascism" would be a shorter way to refer to "Islamic fundamentalism".
Secondly I've seen before debates on the meaning of "fundamentalist", and arguments that to be a fundamentalist doesn't necessarily mean that you want to impose your views on anyone else, it simply means "strict adherence to fundamental principles".
I don't really buy that argument, but either way "Islamofascism" seems a more accurate way to refer to fascist-like movements based on Islam than "fundamentalism".
The same way that "anti-abortionist" seems to me a more accurate expression than "pro-life". You call them fundamentalists if you like, but "Islamofascist" works better for me.
Lucky> Being slated for destruction and actually being destroyed is two different issues. Let us see.
I have to agree with you. I hear a lot of talk about "destroying this" and "destroying that," but I don't see much actual destroying being done. If all we're going to do is negotiate with these people, we should just cut our losses and pull out now. Negotiating with Sadr means that he's won.
Posted by: Infidel Bob ||
04/08/2004 13:15 Comments ||
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#13
Aris
Baathism was based on notions of arab superiority which are rooted in Muslim texts. The Christian founder of Baathism admired the role of Islam in history as advancing Arab power and glory, and is said to have converted to Islam on his death bed. Baathism in power, notably in Iraq, has assimilated considerable Islamic elements.
Saying that the Qutbist jihadi ideology is "basd on Islam" is, to my way of thinking (and i know a lot of clash of civers here and elsewhere disagree) a concession as to what "Islam" is. Many Islamic moderates claim that Jihadism/Salafism is NOT based on Islam, but is based on a misinterpretation of Islamic texts, and Islamic tradition. I am not a muslim and it is not my role to determine which side in that islamic debate is correct. What I CAN say is that when fascism hit the SOCIAL and POLITICAL conditions of the Islamic world, it generated two fascist movements - one which focused on arab racial superiority, and one which focused on the Wahabist form of Islam. Both are forms of Islamofascism. Both are results of the failure of the core Islamic world to adapt to modernity, and both in turn are obstacles to modernity.
I suggest reading Paul Berman's "Liberalism and Terror"
#14
On the issue of destroying Sadr's militia. It may be easier than it looks right now. There doesn't seem to be much depth to the Sadr brigades. All they have is Sadr's pedigree and money from Iran and the second is dependent on the first. There is a good chance that Sadr's capture or death will be the end of the movement.
#15
Liberalhawk> "Many Islamic moderates claim that Jihadism/Salafism is NOT based on Islam, but is based on a misinterpretation of Islamic texts, and Islamic tradition."
And there are many Christians that claim that the Pope isn't a Christian but a heretic instead, and that therefore the Spanish Inquisition wasn't composed by Christians either, but I really don't give a damn about such kind of arguments.
If the fanatics themselves try to impose what *they* see as Islam on the world, that's enough for me. The same way that the Spanish Inquisitors believed themselves Christians and that's enough for me to call them such.
-------
"it generated two fascist movements - one which focused on arab racial superiority, and one which focused on the Wahabist form of Islam."
Look, like it or not, a Christian can't be an Islamic fascist, okay? That's self-evident. Would you call Nazism and Communism forms of Christian fascism, just because they originated in Christian lands?
And you are talking about Baathism and Wahabbism as if they are the only two forms of "Islamofascism" as you call it -- does that mean that you don't consider Iran to be an Islamofascist state? The state which after the fall of the Taliban, becomes the primary example of Islamofascism in my view?
Because Iran is neither Baathist nor Wahabbist. It's Persian and Shiite, which means that it can be neither.
#16
But the crusades and Nazism didnt evolve in the same period, under the same influences.
The Baathism and Qutbism did evolve at the same time, subject to the same influences, and resemble each other in many key aspects.
Should we not call Nazism faschist, becuase it was a fundamentally racist and antisemitic movement, while Italian fascist placed nation over race, and was not in origin antisemitic?? Should we not call Francoism fascism, because it was a traditionalist Catholic movement, in contrast to Mussolonis modernism?? Indeed, by such narrow definitions, how can we call Jihadism fascism at all???? since its not a nationalist movement?? Clearly we need a deeper analysis of fascism. I think the best is found in Paul Bermans "Liberalism and Terror" which i heartily recommend.
He also goes into great detail on the ideology of Michael Afleq, the Maronite origin Lebanese who founded Baath ideology, and his relations to Islam.
#17
Yet another excellent discussion of stuff that matters at Rantburg University. I think LiberalHawk and Aris are in violent agreement.
European fascism did indeed inspire more than one movement in the Arab world, and generally one could group these into the more secular (Ba'athist) and religious (Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, etc) fascist movements. Aris suggests that we reserve "Islamofascist" for the latter, and I've heard other bloggers (e.g., Andy Sullivan) use the term the same way -- a fusion of radical 'fundamentalist' Islam and fascism that elevates both their particular notion of Islam and Arab racial superiority. I generally also reserve my use of Islamofascist to this view to avoid confusion.
Aris asks whether the Iranian black turbans would be considered Islamofascist. I think so -- it has its own version of religious fundamentalist primacy combined with a totalitarian group on power and the use of the state as the prime mover of events in the nation. It's objectively Islamic and fascist at the same time. I'd use the term on Iran, yes.
For the secular Arab/Muslim fascism, I think "Ba'athist" or "neo-Ba'athist" is perfectly proper. Ba'athism is the major secular Arab fascism that has survived to date.
But I will quibble gently with Aris on one point: Naziism and Communism do have similar roots, that being in 19th century European socialism and marxism. The fascists elevated nationalistic and racialist superiority into their blend of state-sponsored socialism, while the communists elevated the worker and proletariat. In practical matters they were not always distinguishable. Aris might disagree, and unfortunately Greece has had some first-hand experience with both of these in its history.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/08/2004 14:58 Comments ||
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#18
SW. good summary. I would note that Berman, democratic Socialist, would find parallels between Leninism and Fascism NOT in Socialism, but in terrorism and the cult of death. Terrorism was a key part of the Russian revolutionary movement before Lenin, and is one of the antecedents of Leninism, quite apart from Marxism. Berman lays out the entire net of relations among 19th century anarcho-terrorism, the romantic cult of death, european fascism, Baathism, and Qutbism/Jihadism much more elegantly and learnedly than i can do here.
The Afghan Government was preparing to send troops to a northern province that has come under attack from forces of a regional strongman in a fresh challenge to President Hamid Karzai's authority. The Defence Ministry said a battalion of troops would be sent to the remote northern province of Faryab after forces of the ethnic Uzbek strongman General Abdul Rashid Dostum, who is also an adviser to Mr Karzai, occupied several districts. "The detachments will go anytime today," a spokesman said on Thursday. "If the need arises, we will send more."
Several truckloads of national army soldiers, armed with assault rifles and rocket propelled grenades, were seen at Kabul military airport where a US military transport plane was standing by. The Government is defending the provincial governor, Anayatullah Anayat, as its legitimate representative in Faryab, and warned that if an investigation finds General Dostum had acted against him, it will be deemed "an unlawful act". Mr Karzai's spokesman, Jawed Ludin, said: "General Dostum is an adviser to the President. However, that does not give him the right to deploy forces or get involved in any military operational issues." Deployment of the national army would be "just one measure" to ensure the situation did not worsen, he said. "We would like to ensure security for the people and uphold the authority of the central government." Mr Anayat appealed for the troops after fighting came within 20 kilometres of the provincial capital, Maimana. He said his forces were outnumbered and many had been disarmed by General Dostum's troops. Although he did not have any casualty figure, there were "bound to have been deaths," he said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
04/08/2004 9:44:12 AM ||
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One by one the old cabinet members warlords are isolated and exterminated. The brightness of the future of Afghanistan is inversely proportional to the power of the warlords.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/08/2004 13:39 Comments ||
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#2
"The brightness of the future of Afghanistan is inversely proportional to the power of the warlords."
An Afghan axiom for the ages. Well said, SH!
Tweak it a little and you can, indeed, make it a Universal Axiom applicable to the remaining World of Want, such as the entirety of the ME, Africa, etc.
EFL
Iraqâs leading Shiâite cleric yesterday appealed for an end to the violence sweeping the country between followers of firebrand Shiâite cleric Sheik Muqtada al-Sadr and coalition forces. And who would that be?
Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Shistaniâs statement helped ease fears that the uprising would spread to more moderate Shiâites, who make up the majority of Iraqâs population. There was no evidence of that happening as of yesterday. Ah, Shitstani is getting a little jittery.
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
04/08/2004 9:33:19 AM ||
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#1
shitani's 3 day silence and then his 'a little of this, a little of that' comment was pretty lame
- many people think he is afraid of 'the new Qusay' Sadr
#2
Meh, Zeyad can use that epithet for Sistani - his ass is on the line, and it's his country, after all. But I think it's in bad taste for non-Iraqis to use it, except in quoting somebody like Zeyad.
OK, Iranians, too. But only because Sistani still speaks with a thick Farsi accent, from all accounts...
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
04/08/2004 12:18 Comments ||
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Mitch,
decent point
I notice that the ayotalloh, known as Shitani by a famous Iraqi blogger, hasn't spoken out about the little problem of hostage taken; maybe he doesn't consider it a problem.
Three Japanese and eight South Koreans were kidnapped in Iraq on Thursday, according to media reports. The Arabic TV station al-Jazeera aired video of the Japanese blindfolded.
Of course they did, just saw it on Fox.
The South Koreans were detained by unidentified "armed men" in Iraq but one was later released, the South Korean Yonhap news agency reported, citing an unnamed Foreign Ministry official in Seoul. The report gave no further details. The Foreign Ministry told The Associated Press it did not know who was responsible for the capture of the South Koreans.
In Tokyo, lawmakers said the Japanese were kidnapped by a terrorist-related group, according to the Japanese news agency Kyodo. A videotape aired by Al-Jazeera and shown by Japan's NHK television showed three Japanese identified as two journalists and an aid worker. The Japanese were blindfolded and surrounded by gunmen. The video showed the hostages' passports, confirming their nationality. The Al-Jazeera report said the kidnappers had threatened to kill their captives, two men and a woman, unless Japan withdraws from southern Iraq.
Thanks, Spain.
Japan has sent several hundred ground troops to Iraq on a noncombat mission to help rebuild the country. Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi has been one of the strongest backers of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, a stance that has raised concern Japanese troops could be targeted by insurgents in that country. The Japanese were taken by a group identifying itself as the "Mujahedeen Squadrons," which Al-Jazeera said gave a three-day ultimatum for Japan to announce it will withdraw its troops or they would be killed. "Three of your sons have fallen into our hands," the Al-Jazeera announcer said, quoting a statement he said came with the video tape. "We offer you two choices: either pull out your forces, or we will burn them alive. We give you three days starting the day this tape is broadcast."
Posted by: Steve ||
04/08/2004 8:53:26 AM ||
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#1
we will burn them alive
ROPMA.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/08/2004 9:11 Comments ||
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#2
"the kidnappers had threatened to kill their captives, two men and a woman, unless Japan withdraws from southern Iraq."
-such brave warriors killing tied-up men & women........pfft, do not negotiate w/terrorist; communicate w/them just long enough to get a gps reading.
#6
Ha'aretz is reporting two Israeli Arab Christians have also been kidnapped.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/08/2004 11:18 Comments ||
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#7
(1) I don't interpret kidnapping civilians to be a sign of confidence in an impending Sad'r/Sunni victory.
(2) I think Paul Fussell wrote somewhere that if western ideas of heroism were applied to the Japanese army in WWII, every single Japanese soldier would have qualified for the Medal of Honor or the Victoria Cross. Granted that today's Japanese aren't their grandfathers, I don't think that pissing off the Japanese is a good long-term move.
Posted by: Matt ||
04/08/2004 12:07 Comments ||
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#8
Matt
It is EDUCATION and SOCIETY what makes people brave not genes. Look what a heavy indoctrination of flower power, political correctness and "piss at all costs" has made from the descendants of Cortez. Look at how different the Europeans are from the Americans despite having basically the same genetic pool. Japanese are no longer educated in the ways of Bushido, dying for the emperor and suiciding to avoid capture: they have become a pacifist society: see the recruitment ads for the Japanese Navy: "Seamaship, seamanship, for peace, for love".
PS: Don't think that Japanese soldiers never fled, they did.
PS2: Japanese Army paid a high price when it faced American fire power for its tendency to defend every yard of terrain and reluctance to tactical retreats.
PS: If you read the reports for actions leading
to Medal of Honor awards you will see that the instances of someone covering a grenade with his body are a minority. Most are about people displaying not only great courage, but incredible skill and brains to inflict great damage to the enemy. Quite the opposite of Japanese screaming Banzai and being mown down by 50 cal machine guns.
#9
"We offer you two choices: either pull out your forces, or we will burn them alive.
What choice? For every Japanese hostage killed, send in another thousand troops. If the Japanese have Elite Forces, invite them to track and kill the hostage takers. Be sure to get it all on video for the folks back home.
#10
Whoa, JFM, good post, but I wasn't trying to write a history of the war in the Pacific or an analysis of Japanese culture.
Now that you mention it, however, can you think of an example of a WWII Japanese infantry unit being routed? The closest I can come is the "long patrol" by Carlson's Raiders against a Japanese column on Guadalcanal.
Posted by: Matt ||
04/08/2004 19:53 Comments ||
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We just got back on base. For a while there, I didnât think that would happen. We got ambushed yesterday, except it was a twenty-one hour ambush. We made CNN, except of course they got it wrong. They said that the Ukrainians have left my city. This is not true. We had to evacuate the compound. If you see first a clip of a guy in a white shirt running carrying an AK next to a railing, thatâs my city. That bridge behind them? The insurgents mined it.
At about four AM the other day, the Ukrainian force rode out the gate and took back the town. At nine thirty we rolled out, arrived at our usual destination, and by ten thirty, we were under fire. We were in a compound of five or six major buildings, large enough to be hotels, not quite large enough to be palaces, that had once been owned by Chemical Ali.
It goes on from there, including describing some odd behavior on the part of the British administrator.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
04/08/2004 2:21:29 AM ||
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They said that the Ukrainians have left my city
1. Tigris Valley/Sunni Triangle
A. Fallujah - Coalition reports USMC controls 25% of city. But thats at least 18 hours old. Heavy fighting
B. Ramadi - fighting continues, but slackening? USMC in firm control
2.Baghdad
A. Heavy fighting continues. Coalition troops control police stations in Sadr City, and have destroyed Sadr's office. Still considerable resistance from Mehdi army. Shiite population of Sadr City is NOT rising en masse, though some Sunni elements are supporting the uprising.
3. South
A. Karbala - report on NPR this AM that Mehdi army controled, Sanchez does not admit that coalition has withdrawn. No combat reports since report of Polish killing of Sadr aid yesterday
B. Kufa - Yesterday seemed to be in Sadr control, Sanchez did not mention, situation unclear
C. Kut - Sanchez reports coalition forces still have presence in city, and will retake it "imminently" Backed up by report posted above.
D. Najaf - Sanchez reports coalition forces still present. Situation complicated by presence of "pilgrims" for Shiite festival. Sadr presumed to be here, also Sistani.
E. Asmara, Nassiriyah, Basra - quieting down??
Posted by: Matt ||
04/08/2004 11:33 Comments ||
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#5
oops i got my rivers mixed up Falluja/Ramadi are in Euphrates valley, Tigris valley is Samarra/Tikrit.
Hits self on head, "my father was a wandering Aramean, who came from across the River (IE Euphrates)" etc. Thats what comes from going to Reform Passover seders, where they dont include whole text.
#7
More on the Poles and Bulgarians in Karbala
from Fox Polish and Bulgarian soldiers drove off Shiites who attacked them near the municipal hall in Karbala south of Baghdad during all-night battles, a Polish spokesman said.
Coalition forces suffered no casualties but killed nine attackers and wounded about 20 others, Lt. Col. Robert Strzelecki said in an interview from Iraq.
The attacks began about 11 p.m. Wednesday and continued until nearly sunrise, Strzelecki said. The attackers, loyal to al-Sadr, used machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and small arms during fighting that the spokesman described as heavy.
So fighting is ongoing in Karbala - to clarify, Fox quotes Sanchez as saying Mehdi army has control of all of central Kut, but only partial control of Najaf. IIUC Spanish troops are fighting in Najaf. And Op Resolute Sword refers to the entire op against Al Sadr, not just the retaking of Kut.
#8
I'd like to actually read this story but the link is apparently going to the wrong place (a story about the Alamo). A fix of the link would be appreciated. Thanks.
At least 26 policemen have been killed in a landmine attack in eastern India, officials say. The police were on patrol in a remote part of Jharkhand state, about 150 km (95 miles) from its capital Ranchi. Police said the blast happened late on Wednesday when officers were searching for left-wing rebels in a dense forest area in Jharkhandâs Chaibasa district. In February, the Peopleâs War Group and another rebel group, the Maoist Communist Centre, said they planned to step up attacks against the police. More than 6,000 people have died during the rebelsâ 20-year armed struggle for a communist state in tribal areas of India.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
04/08/2004 4:23:24 AM ||
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Sadr militia say they have Spanish hostages and maybe one American - possibly civilians as well as troops.
Newsflash - no link yet except Debka (I know)
They are trying to secure the release of Sadrâs deputy, Mustafa Yacoubi, who was arrested on Saturday.
I officially feel sorry for the Spanish now.
Posted by: Lux ||
04/08/2004 4:20:26 AM ||
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Iraqi cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's militia are holding an undisclosed number of Spanish hostages and possibly an American soldier, whom they intend to swap for the release of Mustafa Yacoubi, an aide to al-Sadr, Agence France- Presse reported, citing Amar al-Husseini, a spokesman in Baghdad for the group.
Al-Sadr's Mahdi army, which numbers about 3,000, has been rebelling against the U.S.-led occupation in southern Iraq since the weekend. Al-Sadr has called for a withdrawal of coalition troops from the country. A Spanish government spokesman had no information on the alleged hostage-taking...
And vicious subversive un-P/C renegade elements within Spain's military have provided our snipers with stamped Spanish ammunition to center-punch each and every Mahdi hostage-taker with.
#6
Probably is civilians (if they have anyone at all of course), because there are now more reports of hostages been taken - link - this time Japanese and South Korean.
If this is all Sadr related, then it looks like he's falling back on more 'traditional' terror tactics.
The Spanish media say nothing about civilians be it for confirming or denying their capture. The only info they have is about no soldier being captured.
Of course it is a lot easier to check for missing soldiers than for missing civilians who could have travelled privately.
To all> taking Skor/Japanese prisoners is a big gamble on Sadr's behalf. These countries will either cower or get more agressive, developments will be interesting. Any comments?
Japanâs Defense Agency said Tuesday it has decided to suspend the activities of Japanese ground troops in Iraq outside their camp in the southern city of Samawah in the wake of growing security concerns following fatal clashes between Iraqis and coalition forces elsewhere in the country. The decision was made after considering that a Shiite religious event will be held around Saturday, Iwao Kitahara, head of the secretariat of the agencyâs director general, told a news conference. The Ground Self-Defense Force (GSDF) troops will suspend operations outside their camp until the festivities are over. It is the first time since the first contingentâs arrival in Samawah in January that the agency has decided to halt the troopsâ activities for security reasons. ââThe Defense Agency made the decision with the greatest concern possible to ensure the safety of our troops,ââ Kitahara said. The 530-member GSDF contingent in Samawah will, for the time being, suspend operations such as renovating local schools and repairing roads.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
04/08/2004 3:44:50 AM ||
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Bunker mentality,if they stay hunkered down in thier base they are nothing but a target.
#2
"We are at, I believe, a tipping point for events in Iraq and I am not convinced that the United States has the capability to tip this back the other way in our favour," said Charles Pena of the Cato Institute.
It's pretty amazing how 30 KIA over 3 days constitutes a tipping point. I would tend to guess that Pearl Harbor would constitute the mother of all tipping points. And what about the Tet Offensive in Vietnam, where the Vietcong launched an offensive against the US that killed 1,500 Americans (at a cost of 45,000 of their own dead)? 30 dead in 3 days is not a tipping point of any kind, unless it's of the point where the anti-American voices raise the volume of their clamorous objections even further, if that's even possible.
#3
Don't forget they are adopting tactics similar to the one our peacekeepers using in the Balkans: becuase we were obligated to have troops there for very good geopolitical reasons, but could not risk casualties for domestic political reasons, we adopted a similar bunker mentality.
Can't say as I blame the Japanese on this one.
Posted by: Carl in N.H ||
04/08/2004 14:09 Comments ||
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EFL MARK DAVIS: President Musharraf thanks very much for your time.
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Youâre welcome.
"Wanna touch my turban? You can't!"
MARK DAVIS: You are right in the middle of an assault on the tribal regions of Pakistan. Itâs been fairly obvious for a couple of years that this region has almost become the terrorist capital of the world. Why has it taken you so long to act decisively there?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: I wouldnât call it the terrorist capital really.
"Perhaps a major adminsitrative and banking center..."
I think whatever is happening in Afghanistan is mainly happening from inside Afghanistan. Itâs very clear. If you see where the operations are taking place, the vast majority is taking place in areas, which are not bordering Pakistan, inside Afghanistan Iâm talking about.
"Well, maybe they do border Pakistan, but not very close. Or we don't think of them as being very close..."
However, yes, there are people here. We canât really define whether this is. . . I mean I certainly am very clear that everything in Afghanistan is not happening from here, not even 50% of it is happening from this end.
"But even if it's 90 percent of it, that's not all, so it's not our fault, is it?"
But yes, they were here and we didnât know. You see the issue is that they are not holding areas deployed as forces. They are hiding in various places, in valleys and hills.
"That's an entirely different thing. I'm not sure how, but it is. Somebody told me it was, anyway. I think."
MARK DAVIS: Well letâs talk about those early days, thatâs quite interesting to me. After September 11, George Bush offered you a fairly stark ultimatum, either you abandon the Taliban and join with the US, or you would be effectively regarded as an enemy of America. Now that must have been a very difficult choice for you to make.
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Well, it was difficult certainly, the way things developed and all of a sudden you have to break off relations, but let me tell you it wasnât all that difficult because we here in Pakistan, the Pakistan Government never was in favour of the Taliban way of governance.
"We're more feudal brutality-oriented than religious brutality-oriented..."
Nobody in Pakistan ever wanted Pakistan to be governed or Pakistan to have the perceptions of Islam as the Taliban in Afghanistan had.
"Qazi did, of course. And Fazl. And Sami. And all those loons that flock to Jhang. And the Bugtis. But nobody of substance. Nobody in uniform, anyway. Hardly. Except for Hamid Gul. And Aslam Beg. And..."
I am very clear on that.
"At least I think I am..."
Every government was in fact trying to moderate on the Taliban to leave extremism, to come to a moderate understanding or moderate view of Islam.
"They just wouldn't listen, though. It's sad, really. They had such promise. And so many weapons. And they all had turbans..."
MARK DAVIS: They never showed any sign that that was ever going to happen and thatâs why Pakistan was so broadly criticised, that Pakistan had gave birth to the Taliban and that there was absolutely no ability for them to. . .
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: No, nobody, let me assure you I have frankly no love lost for the previous governments in the â90s, but nobody gave birth to the Taliban, let me assure this thing.
"The fact that they erupted out of Pak madrassahs and that many of them were Paks, that's just pure coincidence. Could happen to anybody..."
They emerged out of the circumstances there. After the Soviets left, there was total chaos, breakdown of law and order.
"So who better to govern than our own Pashtun hillbillies?"
Every group, every tribe was fighting each other there was the Northern Alliance, Ahmad Shah Masood, there was the Hazaras, there were the Uzbeks, there was the Pashtun and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, and many others, they were all fighting among themselves, they were destroying the whole country.
"I mean, Hek was the guy that rocketed Kabul and all, and the others were all allied against him, most of the time, but if they'd just surrendered, think of all the problems that could have been avoided..."
In these circumstances, with all the atrocities committed by each one of them against each other, these people emerged, they emerged among themselves.
"When you've got atrocities being committed left and right, who's gonna care about a few more, especially when the intentions are good and the perpetrators have turbabs?"
But then they swept up Pakistan so fast, that any government in Pakistan had no other alternative being the only Pashtun representatives, and we have a Pashtun government, Pashtun population here to recognise that, because 90% of Afghanistan was held by them. How could Pakistan, how could any government in Pakistan ignore them?
"I mean, it's not like we could have declared them bandit gangs and continued recognizing the Northern Alliance, like the rest of the world did..."
MARK DAVIS: Weâll move on from the Taliban, but letâs look at the extremists within Pakistan, and this is of great concern to America, indeed the whole world. It seems that itâs a very dangerous balancing act, that you are having to engage in. If you donât go in hard enough, if you like, against the extremist groups here, you are in danger of alienating America. If you do go in too hard, you are in danger of alienating your own Muslim support group here and possibly elements of the military. Is it possible to keep these two very contradictory forces happy?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Yes, itâs very possible. Because there is this perception in one aspect of what you have said. Here, the extremists are not in the majority. Now I know what the magazines are writing, I know what they are thinking. I donât at all accept this view. In Pakistan the majority is moderate, the majority is vastly with me.
"That's why they spend so much time shooting at each other and planting bombs and raping their neighbords. Y'see, they only do it in moderation..."
I know that, I know that 200%. If they were not with me, people would be out in the streets because all the extremists want me out. They would be out on the streets, nobody is out on the streets and I have been challenging them in my interviews to the local. . . come out, let me see what there is.
"Where are the riots? Where are the fire-breathing mullahs? Are there no poor laws? Are the workhouses all full?
MARK DAVIS: Itâs a bit unfair, sir. They donât have much of a chance to vote you out, do they? So itâs a bit hard to judge public sentiment on that one.
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: No, no, no. Itâs absolutely clear on. . . . the people, the vast majority is satisfied with what is happening. They are in my favour.
"I mean, the little people love me. Really. Take my word on this!"
There is a very aggressive minority, now that minority is certainly aggressive, and there are terrorist elements in them. Now that is the danger, but that is not the vast majority. They cannot get rid of me or remove me to political power, political authority. Not at all. It is out of the question.
"Unless they manage to kill me, of course..."
They can, yes, they are trying to use terrorist means to eliminate me and with suicide attacks. Now that is the danger. So we should not confuse the issue.
"That's my job!"
This is a small minority who get involved with al-Qaâida sponsorship, money being pumped in and they utilise these extremists to carry out extremist attacks. But if anyone thinks that vast population of Pakistan is extremist and they are against me, then they would be out on the streets, why are they not coming out?
"NWFP, Balochistan, Punjab, those are only a small minority in this country! Karachi? A smidgeon! Less than a tenth of one percent!"
MARK DAVIS: One of the groups you have banned is Lashkar-e-Tayiba. One of their graduates is of interest in Australia - Willie Brigitte was recently discovered in Australia, allegedly with plans to blow something up, again itâs widely believed and according to that ICG report, that Lashkar-e-Tayiba is still functioning in Pakistan. Now, you may say these groups arenât threatening Pakistan, but they are threatening other countries. Is it acceptable that they can survive in any form?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Lashkar-e-Tayiba has not been banned, this has not been banned. Lashkar-e-Tayiba is not threatening anybody. Who has told you that they are threatening anybody? It is Jaish-e-Muhammed which threatens and Jaish-e-Muhammed is banned.
"There's a difference, see? And it's a very important difference: one group's got turbans, and the other... ummm... they've got turbans."
MARK DAVIS: Willie Brigitte, who is now in French custody, allegedly had plans to. . .
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Who?
"Who the hell are you? Have we been introduced?"
MARK DAVIS: A man named Willie Brigitte, heâs now in French custody. He said he was trained by Lashkar-e-Tayiba in Pakistan, he was discovered in Australia, apparently with plans to blow something up. Thereâs another Australian, David Hicks, who is now in Guantanamo Bay. He trained with Lashkar-e-Tayiba. He says that he was given training by the Pakistani army in Kashmir. So these groups do seem to be growing rather beyond any Kashmiri or any Pakistani issues.
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: It is very clear as far as we are concerned. Letâs leave Kashmir aside. In Kashmir there is a freedom struggle going on and the people of Pakistan are emotionally involved with it.
"Out of 90,000 dead, most of them are Paks. We've very distraught over that."
This is a 50-year-old dispute and we better resolve it politically. Letâs leave that aside. We donât think there is any terrorism going on there.
"We call it Freedumb Fighting, you know..."
Now if anybody is carrying out terrorism around the world, we certainly are against it and we would like to act against it.
"We just don't consider what we do to be terrorism. It's... ummm... something else."
Now the name that you are taking, frankly I donât know about that.
"And prob'ly don't want to."
MARK DAVIS: I might just clarify that - it might be a pronunciation problem of mine - Lashkar-e-Tayiba - I mean this is not a banned group?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: No, no, no, this is certainly not a banned group.
"They're good friends of mine, in fact. Sturdy Freedumb Fighters, strong of arm! Fleet of foot! All around nice fellows, y'know?"
MARK DAVIS: The American have just taken into custody a group of them in Iraq, outside of Baghdad, that they say, were operating. . .
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: No, I think we are mistaken there. I donât think Lashkar-e-Tayiba has come out anywhere. That is not the reality, I donât think so.
"I mean, it might look like them, but it's prob'ly imposters. Maybe even Zionists. You know how they are."
Maybe you are talking of Jaish-e-Muhammad, which is the main troublesome organisation which has been. . .
"Are you rolling your eyes, Mr. Davis? You really do that quite well. Have you ever considered accepting the True Religion? You seem to have an aptitude for it..."
MARK DAVIS: Letâs move on to Afghanistan, although we have discussed it earlier. Do you take any responsibility for the reported resurgence of Taliban in Afghanistan.
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Now where are they operating from? Let me tell you, most of them are operating from within Afghanistan.
"Not very far within Afghanistan, of course, but on that side of the border. The fact that they have breakfast is Pakistan is purely coincidental."
If I was to show you a map of all the operations that are going on, and we know that, they are inside of Afghanistan, well inside, out of our border, so this is a misperception, as if every Taliban is coming from Pakistan.
"Maybe a few of them, perhaps. But certainly not many..."
They are doing that inside Afghanistan themselves, and Americans know it by the way. Ask the US, ask General Labisset, heâll tell you where they are operating from.
"I know nothing! No-thing! Tell them, Hogan!"
MARK DAVIS: ...I canât have an interview with you without discussing the hot topic at the moment, which is the nuclear smuggling. In the current war on terror, America is being very kind, indeed tolerant of Pakistan, were you concerned that that relationship was going to snap when the news of the nuclear smuggling allegations came out?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Again, there is a difference, let me tell you. I interact with the State Department, I interact with Secretary Colin Powell, or with President Bush, all the senators and the Congressmen who come here. They are very clear, they have always been clear, and we have always been onboard with all that we are doing, they have been clear, they have been convinced by us that these are individuals who have acted and not the government and the army.
"No, no! Certainly not the government and the army! We'd never do anything remotely like that!"
MARK DAVIS: Are these your lips, sir?
It is unfortunately the media, which tries that they are not convinced and they are under pressure, every time when I see Colin Powell, a lot of people think that he has come to pressurise me. He hasnât come to pressurise me at all, he didnât pressurise me at all. He is fully convinced that the government is not involved.
"A remarkably easily convinced man, in fact, is Colin Powell. He has an aptitude for the True Religion, too, y'know? I've often seen him rolling his eyes, just like you are..."
MARK DAVIS: Given the circumstances, shouldnât the media be concerned? I mean, you refer to Dr Kahn as a hero, now given that is actions threatened the entire world, whatever America says, donât you think you are being a little too kind to him?
PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Yes. Well here a lot of people say that because, yes, he has proliferated, there is no doubt in our minds, and we have found that, we have the evidence, right.
"After all, the Americans gave us the evidence, you know. And the Brits. And the UN. And the Samoans. And some Equimeaux came by, and they had some folders, too..."
So therefore he is a culprit, but however this was a very sensitive issue.
"After all, he's our culprit. True, his actions could have resulted in nuclear holocaust such as the world never wanted to see, such as could possibly destroy the entire world, certainly would destroy civilization of we... ummm... you know it..."
Its sensitivity is to the extent that he is a national hero, he is a national hero to anybody walking in the streets of Pakistan.
"Even if we were all incinerated as a result of his actions, he'd still be a national hero..."
You talk to anybody and you will find that he is a national hero. He is a symbol of the sovereignty of the state, a symbol of a person who has given us this nuclear power.
"The fact that he stole the basic knowhow, that he lied, cheated, connived, and aided the enemies of the West, that's kinda Pakistan all over, isn't it? Brings a tear to my Islamic eye..."
Heâs a danger to the world, so heâs not a hero to anyone else. He might be. . . We have to tackle the international perspective and the national perspective. Therefore, you have to do a little bit of a balancing act here, which was required, and also there was in 1954, the US nuclear technology was passed to the Soviets by one Mr Robert Heinberger - that was the name I think - and nothing happened to him. He was left scot-free, he went into that detail also. In 2002, there was a Dr Lili who passed nuclear secrets to China and the Soviet Union, he was left scot-free. There were 60 charges against him. 59 were absolved and he didnât get any punishment.
"So we're just saving a bit of time and money by not even charging Abdul Qadeer Khan..."
At the end of the interview, the President conferred with his staff and advised that Lashkar-e-Tayiba is a terrorist group and that it is banned in Pakistan.
"Oh, yes. Them! Thought you were talking about somebody else of the same name. Yes, of course they're banned. Always have been. Always will be..."
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
04/08/2004 2:55:49 AM ||
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#1
Poor perv, having to keep that alphabet soup straight.
For comparison. More of the same "balanced" reporting. Or perhaps wishful thinking? From the BCBC
For a third day fierce battles raged in and around Fallujah, with U.S Marines pounding suspected Sunni rebel positions. "Suspected"? Could be Sunni rebels. Could be baby ducks. You never know with those Marines.
But U.S. forces are still far from pacifying the city where four American civilians where killed and their corpses mutilated last week. There are also grounds for skepticism about U.S. claims. Really? Iâm all ears...
"What I would say is that this fight is happening on the Marine Corpsâ terms right now, and we are winning the fight," said Maj. Joseph Clearfield. But the fighting appears to be escalating. Street battles raged in various parts of the city overnight and into Wednesday morning.
A U.S. Cobra helicopter fired a missile on a mosque compound in Fallujah. Witnesses said as many as 40 people were killed. Many wounded were sent to the already crowded local hospital. Um, the grounds for skepticism...where are they?
But the casualty count is a shocking one for the Americans as well. There have been 30 U.S. casualties since Monday and more that 130 Iraqis. Um, the grounds...
Ukrainian troops pulled out of the Iraqi city of Kut on Wednesday in the face of mortar and infantry attacks by Shiite militia fighters. ...skepticism??
The occupation forces are now trying to deal with a war on two fronts: attempting to pacify the area known as the Sunni triangle, as well as in cities to the south where a Shia militia spurred on by a crackdown on cleric Muqtada al-Sadr attacked coalition troops in five cities on Tuesday. The militias, known as the Mahdi army, say they will turn Iraq into another Vietnam for the Americans. I guess they watched T.Kennedy the other day.
"Either they withdraw, or they will die here," said one man. Yay, we found the grounds for skepticism!! This one man...he says...well...um...grounds for skepticism...there he is!!!
...
Some analysts are noting evidence of co-operation between the Shia and Sunni fighters and are saying there is a real possibility of a much wider rebellion against the occupation. "We are at, I believe, a tipping point for events in Iraq and I am not convinced that the United States has the capability to tip this back the other way in our favour," said Charles Pena of the Cato Institute. Yes, wishful thinking indeed.
Posted by: Rafael ||
04/08/2004 2:44:31 AM ||
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#1
I screwed up the smartassery. It should've been: "...there he is! Quote him!" (not much better, I know)
Posted by: Rafael ||
04/08/2004 2:50 Comments ||
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#2
I still can't get over how utterly stupid the reporters are. News Flash: there are about 130,000 troops. They are in almost all the right places. They are armed. They know what to do. They can play Whack a Jihadi like they invented the game, cuz they did. They have ROEs and SOPs running out their ears. They do not rush from hotspot to hotspot like dumb fucking ambulance-chasing merc reporters because someone is already there to deal with it. They are professionals. They deal with it when it sticks its ugly mug above ground. When the asshats fight, they get whipped. Sometimes the good guys lose some good people. That is good for the bad guys for about a microsecond - then it is very very bad because they die even faster as things "loosen up". Go home journo-tards. You don't know fuck-all and haven't shown any capacity to learn. Find your way back to the Hotel Bar, assuming you ever left it. Kill your liver and STFU.
That's it. Either that or they're projecting...you know, astral plane stuff.
Posted by: Rafael ||
04/08/2004 3:12 Comments ||
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#4
Eek! A quagmire! Vietnam!
Stick a sock init. The Mad-i's army doesn't have a jungle to hide in, and they're attacking fortified positions against some of the best infantry in the world. It's a game they cannot win.
Shia, Sunni - no difference. They will die in large numbers, whomever they think shoulda inherited Big Mo's crown.
#5
Remember, the media declaring quagmire has been a sure predictor of swift and decisive coalition victory (Mark Steyn sums it up best). So all hail the good omen!
PARIS, April 8 (AFP) - "The country is on the verge of civil war today. The majority of Iraqis are certainly happy to be rid of Saddam Hussein, but they are all against the American occupation, which is resented as a humiliation," Blix told the Le Parisian daily.
How many visits for you in Iraq since Saddam fell, Inspector Clouseau?
Worse, the United States hasn't stationed enough troops in the country to maintain order and prevent attacks so "Iraq has become a machine producing terrorism."
He's a WMD expert AND a military strategist!
US President "George (W.) Bush, who has presented this war as part of the 'War on Terror' has gotten opposite result," the former Swedish foreign minister and longtime diplomat said in comments translated from French.
Find your hind end yet, Blixie? It's there somewhere.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/08/2004 12:45:51 AM ||
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Blix is a little worm-putz
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
04/08/2004 1:03 Comments ||
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#7
Could someone send Blix to Pendleton for the Marines to play with? I'm sure it would be entertaining... maybe even "enlightening".
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/08/2004 14:39 Comments ||
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#8
Not to worry, Kerry and the Dims will surely bring him over here in some capacity to pacify and appease his French and Euro wienie friends. Then all will be happy and the world will be one again and we will all laugh about our little spat. Ya man.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
04/08/2004 16:15 Comments ||
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#9
After making a dog's breakfast of his own job in Iraq, this Swedish meatball has the nerve to armchair quarterback any continuing action. Why can't we arrange for him to be taken hostage? It would sure as Hell expand his world view a tiny bit.
#10
Please, for the last time. No more dog breakfast remarks. I still believe you are thinking of Polish Honey.
Be thoughtful, most dogs life lives of desperate quietness.
WASHINGTON, April 7 â United States forces are confronting a broad-based Shiite uprising that goes well beyond supporters of one militant Islamic cleric who has been the focus of American counterinsurgency efforts, United States intelligence officials said Wednesday. That assertion contradicts repeated statements by the Bush administration and American officials in Iraq. On Wednesday, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld and Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that they did not believe the United States was facing a broad-based Shiite insurgency. Administration officials have portrayed Moktada al-Sadr, a rebel Shiite cleric who is wanted by American forces, as the catalyst of the rising violence within the Shiite community of Iraq.
But intelligence officials now say that there is evidence that the insurgency goes beyond Mr. Sadr and his militia, and that a much larger number of Shiites have turned against the American-led occupation of Iraq, even if they are not all actively aiding the uprising. A year ago, many Shiites rejoiced at the American invasion and the toppling of Saddam Hussein, a Sunni who had brutally repressed the Shiites for decades. But American intelligence officials now believe that hatred of the American occupation has spread rapidly among Shiites, and is now so large that Mr. Sadr and his forces represent just one element.
Meanwhile, American intelligence has not yet detected signs of coordination between the Sunni rebellion in Iraq's heartland and the Shiite insurgency. But United States intelligence says that the Sunni rebellion also goes far beyond former Baathist government members. Sunni tribal leaders, particularly in Al Anbar Province, home to Ramadi, the provincial capital, and Falluja, have turned against the United States and are helping to lead the Sunni rebellion, intelligence officials say. The result is that the United States is facing two broad-based insurgencies that are now on parallel tracks.
How 'bout some more data to back up the "broad" part of this?
The Bush administration has sought to portray the opposition much more narrowly. In the Sunni insurgency, the White House and the Pentagon have focused on the role of the former leaders of the Baath Party and Saddam Hussein's government, while in the Shiite rebellion they have focused almost exclusively on the role of Mr. Sadr. Mr. Rumsfeld told reporters at the Pentagon that the fighting in Iraq was just the work of "thugs, gangs and terrorists," and not a popular uprising.
According to some experts on Iraq's Shiites, the uprising has spread to many Shiites who are not followers of Mr. Sadr. "There is a general mood of anti-Americanism among the people in the streets," said Ghassan R. al-Attiyah, executive director of the Iraq Foundation for Development and Democracy in Baghdad. "They identify with Sadr not because they believe in him but because they have their own grievances." While they share the broader anger in Iraq over the lack of jobs and security, many Shiites suspect that the handover of sovereignty to Iraqi politicians from the American occupying powers on June 30 will bypass their interests, Mr. Attiyah said.
Also hard to gauge is the relationship between Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani and Mr. Sadr. Ayatollah Sistani is an aging cleric venerated for his teachings, while Mr. Sadr is a youthful rabble-rouser, with little clerical standing. This week, Ayatollah Sistani issued a statement supporting Mr. Sadr's decision to act against the Americans, but emphasizing the need for a peaceful solution. In this, the older man seemed to be marking out a position that allowed him to associate with the tide of Shiite popular feelings, while allowing Mr. Sadr, for whom he is said to harbor a personal contempt, to risk his militia â and his life â in a showdown with the Americans.
"Yes, grasshopper, you should go fight the Americans. Now. Today."
"But what of you, venerated one? Will you fight?"
"Pshah, boy, you think I'm crazy? Now go."
While Mr. Sadr's militiamen prepared for battle, all was quiet at the Kufa headquarters of a rival militia that has helped sustain Mr. Sadr's political influence â the Badr Brigade. Nominally controlled by another Shiite political organization, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, the Badr Brigade has generally been seen as underpinning Ayatollah Sistani's authority.
In the Shiite-dominated areas of Iraq, some Pentagon officials and other government officials believe that Hezbollah, an Iranian-backed Shiite extremist group, is now playing a key role in the Shiite insurgency. The Islamic Jihad Organization, a terrorist group closely affiliated with Hezbollah, is also said by some officials to have established offices in Iraq, and that Iran is behind much of the violence. C.I.A. officials disagree, however, and say they have not yet seen evidence that Hezbollah has joined forces with Iraqi Shiites. But C.I.A. officials agree that Hezbollah has established a significant presence in postwar Iraq. The Lebanese-based organization sent in teams after the war, American intelligence officials believe.
There were some clues to an Iranian presence in Kufa this week. There are close ties between the Shiite clerical establishments in the two countries. But whether the Iranian role extends beyond finance is hard to know.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/08/2004 12:27:43 AM ||
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The NYT is a piss yellow rag. Its journalistic offal should not be posted herein or on any other website frequented by decent people.
#2
I dunno, John Burns (contributed to this piece) is pretty good and reliable. It's worth hearing a contrary opinion.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/08/2004 1:03 Comments ||
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#3
Perhaps the Shiite's are pissed about job opportunities. That would explain the "broad based" aspect. Yep I think jobs! I mean think about it. "It's the economy stupid."
And thats how I feel, stupid. How could I have missed such an obvious Hesbollabian moment. Sad!
#4
Also hard to gauge is the relationship between Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani and Mr. Sadr. Are you kidding me? A quick google search will show you:
1. On the same day that al-Khoi was murdered, Sadr's supporters besieged the home of Grand Ayatollah 'Ali Sistani in Najaf and demanded that he leave town or be killed.
2. Muqtada al-Sadr is directly involved in Sheikh al-Khoi's murder.
3. Sheikh al-Khoi's father: Grand Ayatollah Abu al-Qasim al-Khoi was a personal mentor and friend of Sistani's
4. In 1999, shortly after the four days of American and British airstrikes during Operation Desert Fox, Sadr's father, Muhammad Sadiq al-Sadr, began to preach against the regime in his Friday mosque sermons. The elder Sadr was a senior Shiite clergyman who had previously avoided friction with the Baath regime, and so his sermons against Saddam immediately won him huge support with younger Shiah. Attendance at his sermons ballooned. Grand Ayatollah Sistani objected to Sadr's preaching because he feared the regime would retaliate in devastating fashion against the entire Shiite community. Muhammad al-Sadr was soon assassinated, almost certainly by Saddam's intelligence services, who feared he might spark a general Shiite revolt against the regime. The Sadr family, and the deceased ayatollah's son in particular, never forgave Sistani for his objections.
5. In 1992, Sistani's competed with Khamenei for the position of Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The Iranians fear that Sistani's may be quietly supporting a limited U.S. presence and, more importantly, a democratic Iraq rather than the a theocracy.
6. Sistani is allied to the Iranian moderates (President Khatami and his circle), while the Sadr is allied to Khamenei, the Rahbar (Supreme Leader).
#5
The more you read NY Times and other leftist news outlets, you will steep yourself into the world of rhetoric and bywords. Idioms like 'broad-based' and 'rising' and concocted ideations of something which exist only through speculation such as 'large hatred'; these things are used by leftist journalists ( an oxymoron for sure ) too lazy to find out what is really going on.
Really. Someone tell me what does 'large hatred' means. Did the writer just concoct a concept for which there is no corresponding reality?
I think it is the sound of the words; maybe they get a raise from the boss or a blowjob from an intern, I dont know.
Read other 'news' articlse by the NY Times and listen to NPR. You will hear these terms and learn to find out even more weird concepts the left creates in order to advance their main agenda: Destruction of the United States by wrecking its military/security systems.
#6
Well said Badanov. It's like watching somebody play Jeopardy. "What Mohammed said befor he slay the dragon."
A Bi-polar attack from Iran!? Me think'n Sadr is old cannon fodder of the Iranians. Dupes. "Yea play along and Iraq can be yours." Now their done with. Useful idiots, no!
#10
Well seeing as there is close to 7 million people between Baghdad and the rest of the triangle, if say even half revolted - that's 3.5 million. Take into account we have only 130K troop strength don't ya think if 3.5 million people were fighting us we'd be overwhelmed in about a day? However, as of right now we have a little more then 40 casualties.......WAKE UP UH-MERIKA!!
#11
OS: I'm sure that was a rhetorical question, but: no. When we win, the NYT will report that the rebellion has been "driven underground" and our brutal tactics in repressing the rebellion have created more terrorists. Note that the whole article is structured to reinforce the "Bush Lied" theme.
Posted by: Matt ||
04/08/2004 9:52 Comments ||
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#12
You know before WWII, newspapers actually declared their party affiliation. Every burg had it's Republican and Democratic papers. A really big city like NYC had socialist papers. It must have been the strong feelings of national unity during WWII, leading into the "Cold War consensus," but somewhere along the way, newspapers started pretending that they were bipartisan and above the fray. I'd be much happier with a NYT that printed "The Nation's Leading Liberal Voice" on its masthead than with the current fiction.
It was also the decline in the number of newspapers, leading to lots of newspaper monopolies. Who dont want to leave open space for a competitor by going overtly partisan. Reinforced by growing distrust of party affiliation in a more educated, middle class country. Lots more independents, fewer party members willing to vote a straight ticket regardless of candidate personality and ideology.
Thinks nostalgically of the fat, chain smoking lady next door who had a job through the Brooklyn dem machine, and brought around petitions for whatever candidate needed sigs. Didnt think much of those hippie Mcgovernites. she didnt.
#14
Take into account we have only 130K troop strength don't ya think if 3.5 million people were fighting us we'd be overwhelmed in about a day?
Actually, no. 3.5m people need weapons and ammunition. A general revolt would produce a host of targets. Our problems in Iraq don't stem from our inability to kill large numbers of people. The issue has always been to find and either capture or kill the bad guys. If they're all bad guys, the choice is easy - bring in the B-52's, the B-1's, the A-10's, the AC-130's, the howitzers, the mortar tubes, the MLRS's, et al. We can quash this in a matter of months, once and for all. And the aftermath would be peace, as in Japan and Germany after most of the fighting-age population was killed off. But that's not what we're getting - it's the same old hit-and-run tactics we've been getting for about a year - insufficient to inflict real damage in the form of thousands of US KIA, but enough to bring the Cassandras out in force about the drip-drip-drip nature of American losses, which according to these defeatists, could be ended by simply withdrawing from Iraq.
So why not withdraw? Because this would be interpreted (correctly) by America's potential adversaries as evidence of American weakness. The fact is that the US cannot afford to withdraw from Iraq. It's not a matter of machismo - it's a matter of deterrence. If the US withdraws from a region that is critical to US national security interests (home to 2/3 of the world's oil) what will it do with respect to far less important countries like Taiwan and South Korea. Our enemies (China, North Korea, various Muslim terror sponsors) are watching this. The toll in Iraq will be a small downpayment on the pain ahead if we withdraw.
#15
"Actually, no. 3.5m people need weapons and ammunition."
-um, maybe you mis-read my post I'm saying there is no general uprising as much as the media would like it to be.
But, actually yeah, ZF if we're talking hypotheticals - only 1/2 the pop there needs to provide aid and comfort to a guerilla force of even half that. And no, we would not level cities in a general revolt from civilians, unfortunately due to political reasons. You even stated the problem - they are not all bad guys. Thus the rub. We would not make Fallujah, Kut, Ramdi, or anyother piss hole a Free fire zone. If 10,000 guerillas were dug in and started ambushing patrols in an urban environment - we would be in a shit load of trouble, especially if they had the backing of the majority of the local pop, which they don't right now. I've done enough urban training to know of what I speak.
#16
LH: All of your points are correct. I was guilty of oversimplifying. There is also talk radio, which seems to have captured a lot of the conservative audience and perhaps even pulled it away from newspapers. Network TV news has another problem altogether. Their viewer base is contantly shrinking. They are too afraid to jettison Rather and Jennings for fear of losing the over 50 demographic (their last remaining stronghold). And they are too afraid to make the radical changes they need to compete.
The Internet as a medium is really polarizing. Mostly because of its participatory nature, I think. Conservatives are mostly Thinkers and Judgers. Liberals are mostly Feelers and Perceivers. Since usually the most extroverted of both types participate on web forums, the exchanges tend to be acrimonious and thus polarizing. I think that in the end, it will force us communicate better. That's another post, though.
EFL - Strategy Page
It's no Mogadishu, it's no Tet -- in fact, the ugly, baiting murders in Fallujah and Muqtada al-Sadr's made-for-Tv rebellion may be an extraordinary opportunity for the United States and Iraqi democrats, if the military operations and politics are handled with finesse... The Fallujah massacre and al-Sadr's riots are calculated, violent acts orchestrated by desperate thugs confronting imminent loss of power. An Iraqi democracy threatens the sorry lot of them, so they?re taken their best shot at halting the process. The Fallujah fascists and al-Sadr think they can defeat or at least deflect America by causing U.S. casualties, then parading the bodies before Peter Jennings and Al Jazeera. Al-Sadr adds another wrinkle: multiple "hotspots" to seed the impression of broad insurrection. It's a clever gambit, staging gunfights in Basra, Kut and Baghdad, and leverages contemporary cable Tv's appetite for 24-7 repetition and magnification. The goal is a "Tet effect," an echo of North Vietnam's 1968 offensive, which was a battlefield disaster for the North Vietnamese but a media (and hence political) victory. However, Tet 1968 and Mogadishu 1993 are dated scripts. We?re post 9-11.
In military terms, the U.S. and Iraqi forces will be conducting large-scale cordon and search operations (in Fallujah and in Sadr's alleys), supported by raids and limited attacks on diehard strong-points. Politically, the operation becomes a peculiar "show of force": Post 9-11, the challenge of thugs angling for "body bag" media victories will be met and trumped. The Marines' Operation Vigilant Resolve in Fallujah appears to have this strategic goal in mind. Iraqi security personnel are intimately involved, as interpreters and police. The uncensorable image for the cameras: New Iraq's security capability is growing. We're not going to destroy neighborhoods, but we will eliminate resistance. The Marines are targeting specific suspects, using information gleaned from video, informants and various sensors, to include unmanned aerial vehicles... Such standoffs, with innocents grabbed by cornered militiamen, send another message: Baath and Islamo-fascists aren't leading popular rebellions, they are holding Iraqis hostage, to their own evil ends. I doubt we will see this well reasoned viewpoint in the NY Times or on CNN any time soon.
Posted by: OldSpook ||
04/08/2004 12:30:17 AM ||
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#1
Fred can you fix the single quotes? Apparently the posting system tries to do smart quotes or else doesn't understand UTF8.
#3
The N.Y.T. & CNN plus NPR should unify with 'Mahdi-Media i.e., Al Jazeera News for total 'unfair & never balanced' neo-news :)
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
04/08/2004 0:53 Comments ||
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Unfortunately, I think the Tet analogy (US military victory undermined by US media traitors)is going to have legs. On my commute today, one acquaintance of mine (ex-USAF, B52 bombardier, Vietnam vet) spluttered his fury at Bush for getting 20-plus men killed in the past 3 days or so. Praise be to "Puget Pravda" (aka the Seattle Post-Intelligencer)...Stalin would be proud of you, you bottom-feeding fifth-column assholes.
Posted by: Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) ||
04/08/2004 1:07 Comments ||
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#5
ABC News made a bovine attempt at American defeat today. IMHO.
#6
If the Al Q/Al Answar/baath cell (or cells) hiding in Fallujah are knocked out by this operation, it will be a great milestone. If all we get are the cannon fodder, well, that won't take care of the problem.
#7
I also think the Tet analogy will have legs, which is why folks hearing it should run with it: Tet was a military victory and a political loss because US media went wobbly. The media is going wobbly again.
The bad guys learned the lessons of history, perhaps the media should as well.
For the second time in two weeks President Hamid Karzai is sending newly trained Afghan National Army troops from the capital to quell fighting in outlying regions, this time in northern Afghanistan, government officials said. Heavy fighting broke out today as an Uzbek warlord's militia advanced on Maimana, the provincial capital of the northern province of Faryab, forcing the local governor to appeal for support from the central government. The government ordered a battalion of 750 men to prepare to fly to Maimana on Thursday, said Gen. Mir Jan, a spokesman for the Defense Ministry. A senior government delegation, led by the deputy chief of staff and a presidential adviser, left for the region today, he said. The militia loyal to the warlord, Gen. Abdul Rashid Dostum, are fighting forces loyal to Gen. Hashim Habibi, who recently refused orders from General Dostum and declared his allegiance to the local governor and the central government. General Jan said that the militia forces attacked in four different areas, suggesting a coordinated operation.
Or four sub-warlords who won't work together.
General Dostum's forces had seized control of several towns in the north of the province and were advancing on Maimana, the local intelligence chief, Homayoun Aini, said in a telephone interview. He said the militia forces had captured Juma Bazaar, a suburb just 12 miles from the center of the provincial capital, and two other districts to the north. "Fighting is still going on in two areas," he said. "Government soldiers and supporters have fled in disarray." There were no immediate reports of casualties, but government officials said there were bound to be some.
I dunno, Hek's boys can't hit the broad side of a barn, are these guys any better?
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/08/2004 12:21:16 AM ||
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Question is can Karzi weld enough strength to bring these folks to heel?
KERBALA, Iraq, April 7th, 2004 (Reuters) - Polish troops killed the head of militant Iraqi cleric Moqtada al-Sadrâs office in Kerbala during overnight clashes in the holy Shiâite city which killed at least seven people, Iraqi police said on Wednesday.
Iraqi police spokesman Rahman Mashawi told Reuters Murtada al-Mussawi, who ran Sadrâs Kerbala office, was killed in fighting with Polish troops in the centre of town.
A spokesman for the Polish forces, who head a multinational division in the area, said he could not confirm the report but was checking.
Lieutenant Colonel Robert Strzelecki said the overnight clashes with Sadrâs militias had ended at around 7 a.m. (0300 GMT). He said seven Iraqis were killed and five Iraqi security officials wounded. There were no Polish casualties, he said.
Sadrâs militias have been battling occupying forces across south and central Iraq since Sunday. Sadr has rallied supporters with calls for an end to the occupation. The U.S. army said on Wednesday it would destroy his militia.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
04/08/2004 12:05:07 AM ||
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Thanks, Poland!
More like this, please.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
04/08/2004 20:18 Comments ||
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