Hi there, !
Today Wed 01/05/2005 Tue 01/04/2005 Mon 01/03/2005 Sun 01/02/2005 Sat 01/01/2005 Fri 12/31/2004 Thu 12/30/2004 Archives
Rantburg
446949 articles and 1579245 comments are archived on Rantburg.

Today: 68 articles and 293 comments as of 20:08.
Post a news link    Post your own article   
Area: WoT Operations    Non-WoT    Opinion            Posting Order
Another most wanted found among Riyadh boomer scraps
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
Page 2: WoT Background
3 00:00 Bugaboo [261] 
7 00:00 RWV [260] 
1 00:00 Seafarious [256] 
2 00:00 Captain America [253] 
5 00:00 John Q. Citizen [259] 
0 [271] 
1 00:00 trailing wife [291] 
49 00:00 Zenster [422] 
0 [255] 
4 00:00 RWV [264] 
1 00:00 Captain America [265] 
7 00:00 Shipman [258] 
3 00:00 ocasional lurker [253] 
1 00:00 Shipman [267] 
1 00:00 .com [300] 
44 00:00 Zenster [427] 
4 00:00 Tony (UK) [253] 
0 [252] 
4 00:00 JFM [263] 
1 00:00 N Guard [250] 
4 00:00 trailing wife [260] 
4 00:00 leaddog2 [269] 
9 00:00 Shipman [302] 
Page 1: WoT Operations
0 [268]
0 [680]
0 [276]
4 00:00 Mrs. Davis [263]
0 [275]
0 [278]
0 [264]
0 [269]
0 [266]
5 00:00 GK [455]
6 00:00 Zhang Fei [272]
1 00:00 EoZ [270]
7 00:00 Shipman [360]
12 00:00 Aris Katsaris [326]
0 [266]
Page 3: Non-WoT
0 [268]
0 [259]
9 00:00 Zenster [260]
0 [263]
5 00:00 Zhang Fei [270]
10 00:00 Floting Granter5198 [368]
9 00:00 RWV [263]
0 [258]
0 [259]
2 00:00 Cheaderhead [265]
2 00:00 Dishman [268]
3 00:00 mhw [260]
2 00:00 Wuzzalib [252]
3 00:00 Tony (UK) [261]
1 00:00 .com [266]
4 00:00 Dishman [266]
2 00:00 Hupereger Clish6229 [282]
3 00:00 Raptor [246]
7 00:00 Hupailet Grereting6218 [421]
3 00:00 mojo [782]
1 00:00 jackal [270]
0 [257]
4 00:00 Poison Reverse [258]
8 00:00 Shipman [274]
0 [256]
16 00:00 mojo [278]
4 00:00 Bugaboo [266]
2 00:00 Aris Katsaris [266]
Page 4: Opinion
1 00:00 John Q. Citizen [253]
2 00:00 John Q. Citizen [257]
Arabia
Today's Arab News Cartoon
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 08:47 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [264 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I like this cartoon! The message seems to be that Muslims plan behave exactly as stupidly in 2005 as they did in 2004. They just don't learn nothin', do they?
Posted by: Sheik Abu Bin Ali Al-Yahood || 01/02/2005 12:54 Comments || Top||

#2  Yes, but check out the luxuriant moustaches! Not to mention the gorgeous upper back muscles pressing against Uncle Sam's jacket.
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/02/2005 15:13 Comments || Top||

#3  "Whacky" world of cartoons.
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/02/2005 17:18 Comments || Top||

#4  TW, well put, but also note the very prominent backbone in Uncle Sam. I guess the Arab News understands the consequences of the US election.
Posted by: RWV || 01/02/2005 17:44 Comments || Top||


Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
Soros Foundation to be kicked out of another country for mischief
A branch of the Soros Foundation in Kazakhstan has strongly denied charges of tax evasion by the authorities, describing the allegations as politically motivated. "It seems that the Kazakh government wants to close down the foundation," Dariusz Zietek, head of the Soros Foundation-Kazakhstan (SFK), told IRIN from the commercial capital, Almaty, on Thursday. "The whole story is politically motivated." His remarks follow this week's announcement by Kazakh financial officials that a criminal investigation had been opened against the acclaimed foundation funded by billionaire American financier George Soros, which has been active in Central Asia's largest nation since 1993. Kazakh officials maintain the Soros Foundation failed to pay some US $400,000 in back taxes it owned since 2001, plus some $200,000 in penalties... I think that's something like FIVE countries they've been kicked out of for trying to influence elections, and otherwise manipulate the government. George Soros wants to steal some country he can rule.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 01/02/2005 9:29:03 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [261 views] Top|| File under:

#1  People are catching on to the evil of Soros.
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/02/2005 21:50 Comments || Top||

#2  Kazakhstan has elections this year, and it's afraid of the precedents of the Rose and Orange Revolutions. In Kyrgyzstan also -- in these two countries the revolutions (if they happen) will be called "Tulip" and "Poppy" Revolutions (respectively I think, though I may have them mixed-up) and both will be against the Klemlin-backed dictators.

You are talking about "mischief" against a country as corrupt and un-democratic as Kazakhstan? In those places causing mischief is a moral *obligation* against the tyranny of the rulers.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 01/02/2005 22:02 Comments || Top||

#3  Aris, I somewhat agree about the obligation, but object to Soros on principle. He does not much affect the rulers, but the people usually bear the weight of his shenigans.
Posted by: Bugaboo || 01/02/2005 22:16 Comments || Top||


Europe
More than 330 cars torched
VANDALS torched a total of 333 cars in France during New Year's celebrations, according to official figures released at the weekend - an unpleasant annual tradition that is not seen anywhere else in Europe. The total was up nine from last year, prompting the interior ministry to note a "stability in the phenomena of urban violence". More than 270 people were detained for questioning in connection with the blazes, while 19 police officers were slightly injured. In nearly all cases, the arson attacks came in what the government considers to be "difficult" areas on the outskirts of Paris, the eastern city of Strasbourg and its suburbs.
Read Muslim areas
France is the only country in Europe where torching cars has become a New Year's custom, according to data collected by AFP's bureaux across the continent. French sociologist Michel Wieviorka explained the violence as a "response from victims of social exclusion to our society of consumption".
Oh. Well. In that case, I guess the Frenchies should just stop consuming things.
Posted by: tipper || 01/02/2005 6:55:47 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [258 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Of course. Just misunderstood victims of social exclusion. Torching cars... *slaps forehead* now why didn't I think of that back when I was a thug and vandal youth? What a perfect way of reaching out to others, revealing and sharing your pain and anguish. *sniff* Sorta gets to ya, y'know? *wipes tear*
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 7:35 Comments || Top||

#2  French sociologist Michel Wieviorka explained the violence as a "response from victims of social exclusion to our society of consumption".

An alternative explanation? No Second Amendment.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 01/02/2005 8:38 Comments || Top||

#3  Maybe they need one of these... Keeps everything neat and tidy.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 9:17 Comments || Top||

#4  Interesting how France, to their way of thinking superior in all ways, wants to teach the USA about being "civilized." I truly wonder how they reconcile what they do with what they say.
Posted by: PlanetDan || 01/02/2005 14:53 Comments || Top||

#5  Can't be certain this isn't some frence-u.n. money for torching cars scheme.
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/02/2005 18:04 Comments || Top||

#6  Oops. Scratch frence, add french.
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/02/2005 18:07 Comments || Top||

#7  LOl JQ..... a frogish fence = frence, so you may have been right the first time.
Posted by: Shipman || 01/02/2005 19:45 Comments || Top||


Fifth Column
Happy New Year, Mr. President (A Hussain Has A Brain Fart)
Posted by: tipper || 01/02/2005 06:45 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [253 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Tipper, you nailed it. No other comment needed.
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/02/2005 15:28 Comments || Top||

#2  And the only reason it made it into print?

3 guesses - or is 1 enough?
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 15:32 Comments || Top||

#3  "mmmm, New-yearsspeach of Jihad Unspun editor?
Posted by: ocasional lurker || 01/02/2005 15:42 Comments || Top||


Home Front: WoT
US plans lifetime detention for terrorism suspects: report
The Bush administration is preparing plans for the possible lifetime detention of suspected terrorists, including hundreds whom the Government does not have enough evidence to charge in courts, The Washington Post reports. Citing intelligence, defence and diplomatic officials, the newspaper reports that the Pentagon and the CIA have asked the White House to decide on a more permanent approach for those it would not set free or turn over to courts at home or abroad. As part of a solution the Defence Department, which holds 500 prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, plans to ask the US Congress for $A32 million to build a 200-bed prison to hold detainees who are unlikely to ever go through a military tribunal for lack of evidence. The newspaper reports that the new prison, dubbed Camp 6, would allow inmates more comfort and freedom than they have now. It says the camps would be designed for prisoners the Government believes have no more intelligence to share. "It would be modelled on a US prison and would allow socialising among inmates," the paper said.
"Why, they can make shivs if they want," the report added.
"Since global war on terror is a long-term effort, it makes sense for us to be looking at solutions for long-term problems," Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman, was quoted as saying. "This has been evolutionary, but we are at a point in time where we have to say, 'How do you deal with them in the long-term?'" A Pentagon spokeswoman, Lt Col Ellen Krenke, has no information on the reported plan.
"I can say no more!"
The Post reports that the outcome of a review under way would also affect those expected to be captured in the course of future counter-terrorism operations. One proposal would transfer large numbers of Afghan, Saudi and Yemeni detainees from the US military's Guantanamo Bay detention center into new US-built prisons in their home countries. A senior official is quoted as saying the prisons would be operated by those countries, but the State Department, where this idea originated, would ask them to abide by recognised human rights standards and would monitor compliance.
"Pretty please?"
Posted by: God Save The World || 01/02/2005 5:15:08 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [260 views] Top|| File under:

#1  A better solution for Terrorists for the sake of humanity ..... Extermination!
Posted by: leaddog2 || 01/02/2005 12:43 Comments || Top||

#2  These are the 2 stupidist ideas I have ever heard of. If there is not enough evidence to convict 200 prisoners before a tribunal, which has to be 20x easier to convict in than a court of law,let these suckers go like the other slime balls that have already been let go, and forget about taking prisoners next tiime round. $A32 million solution? That's not a solution, that's waste. And then the idea about US built prisons in SA and Yemen, operated by SA & Yemeni guards whom the US would monitor so they would "abide by recognized human rights standards...". Heheheheh. That's too precious, even for State Dept.

Easy solution from here on in - except for high value targets, take no POW's. Simple.
Posted by: joeblow || 01/02/2005 13:34 Comments || Top||

#3  Taking prisoners, even small-fry, is good thing to wring gently persuade whatever information we can out of them. Sadly, even the most gentle persuasion may encourage them to attempt to escape, during which time they will unfortunately be shot. VERY sad.
Posted by: Justrand || 01/02/2005 14:25 Comments || Top||

#4  Lifetime detention?

Let's hope it's a very short life.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 01/02/2005 14:41 Comments || Top||

#5  We shot German spies during WWII when they came ashore in a sub. We are getting soft. If guilty of killing Americans or allies give them the firing squad. Save the taxpayers some money. Besides they want to visit the dancing virgins.
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/02/2005 18:26 Comments || Top||

#6  Well, perhaps we made a deal with some of them: "Tell us where your weapons stash is, or next op will be, or who your financers are and you won't fry."

The ones who refused to talk, or were caught lying? Hang 'em.
Posted by: jackal || 01/02/2005 19:42 Comments || Top||

#7  Guantanamo is a close to Paradise as most of these guys are ever going to get. (snark on) Perhaps a better solution would be to contract with Castro to imprision them and give them a taste of Caribbean Communist Paradise. (snark off)
Posted by: RWV || 01/02/2005 19:43 Comments || Top||


New intelligence director may be named
President Bush is expected to name the first director of U.S. intelligence as early as this week part of the changes resulting from the Sept. 11 commission. The White House has been silent on the appointment, but some administration and intelligence officials said a leading candidate is John Lehman, a Republican member of the Sept. 11 commission and former Navy secretary. However, more than a dozen intelligence professionals interviewed by the Boston Globe said the commission recommended changes do not address the system's biggest problems: a lack of accurate intelligence coming in from the field and a shortage of skilled analysts. "It does little to address analytic and collection capabilities," Vincent Cannistraro, former head of the CIA's counterterrorism center, told the Globe. "I am not optimistic the so-called reforms are going to lead to quality intelligence. It does nothing to remedy the poor source information we have had."
Posted by: Fred || 01/02/2005 12:24:35 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [253 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Not Lehman! I've read quite enough post 9/11 Commission idiocy and bullshit from this guy to know his head's in tilt! mode. There are better people than Lehman out there. Somewhere in the 53% of the 295 million Americans is someone who can fill this position and maximize its potential for good. Correcting authority oversights - actually they're political turf issues by various House and Senate committees who get "face time" on TV to pontificate issues - will be a hard slog, but definitely worth it.

No Lehman, puhleeze.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 15:42 Comments || Top||

#2  Agree with com, not Lehman. Not Lieberman (Joemenum) either, although I suspect that he was never in the running to begin with.

We don't need anyone from the 9/11 farce.
Posted by: Captain America || 01/02/2005 18:18 Comments || Top||


Iraq, Iran, North Korea top Bush agenda
The more things change, the more they remain the same...
The three countries US President George W Bush called an "axis of evil" in his first term are at the top of his foreign policy to-do list in the second, along with a revitalised Mideast peace process and continued efforts to repair European alliances frayed by the US-led invasion of Iraq. War and reconstruction in Iraq are likely to continue to command more attention than any other international issues, at least for the first couple of years of Bush's new four-year term. "The first priority has got to be getting Iraq right," said Max Boot, a conservative expert on national security at the Council on Foreign Relations.

But in the short run, the Bush administration also must juggle a complicated response to the devastation from the tsunami waves across South Asia amid some complaints that the rich United States is not doing enough. The massive relief effort - for which the United States increased its financial aid commitment Friday to $US350 million ($A449.47 million) - is drawing attention away from preparations for elections scheduled for January 30 in Iraq, but the distraction will probably be brief. Bush pledged to give tsunami relief plenty of attention, saying in his weekly radio address that "we join the world in feeling enormous sadness over a great human tragedy."

On Iraq, the administration will get a real and perceived boost in credibility if elections scheduled there for the end of this month come off well, Boot and others said. Another round of elections is planned for later in 2005. The alternative - protracted turmoil and violence that the United States cannot control - would complicate US foreign policy far beyond Iraq. "The odds are in our favour, but defeat is not out of the question," Boot said. "I think it's 60-40 in our direction."

The announcement on Thursday that Iraq's largest Sunni Muslim political party will not participate in the election won't help. The insurgency is believed to draw most of its support from Sunnis, who provided much of Saddam Hussein's former Baath Party membership. Delaware Senator Joe Biden, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said he found the security situation in Iraq worse during a trip in December than on three previous visits since the invasion. "We basically have no trouble achieving any military objective; we have considerable trouble securing it," Biden said. American patience with the war will soon wear thin, and doing the reconstruction job correctly could mean US troops stay in Iraq far longer than the public expects, he said. That leaves two options for Bush as he begins his second term, Biden said. "We muddle through for the next year, declare victory after the second election and leave, and then there would be chaos," Biden said. Or, "level with the American people and tell them we're going to be muddling through for the next four years, or longer." Bush seemed to acknowledge that Iraq remains Job No.1 during a year-end news conference. "We have a vital interest in the success of a free Iraq. You see, free societies do not export terror," Bush said.

Iran and North Korea, the other two countries in Bush's axis, loom nearly as large as Iraq. The United States suspects both countries are on their way to possessing nuclear weapons, or already have them. Both have repressive or authoritarian governments that could interfere with their neighbours or worse. US policy in all three nations is yoked to the continuing war on terrorism, since all three are potential training grounds or arsenals for terrorists. Bush must decide how much to push Iran and North Korea diplomatically; how much to cooperate with European efforts to contain the nuclear threats; and how much to listen to hawks in his own government who may press for a limited airstrike against Iranian nuclear facilities.

At the same time, Bush may play a central role in the next phase of peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians. For now, Britain is taking that lead while all sides await the outcome of January 9 elections to choose a successor to Yasser Arafat. China will probably also be a major focus of US economic and diplomatic efforts during Bush's next four years, and not just because of its vast size and resources. Beijing could help contain or confront North Korea, said Patrick Cronin, a foreign policy analyst at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies.

Bush will also have a wary eye on Russia, the Cold War nemesis turned ally in the war on terror. The administration chose mostly to hold its tongue as Russian President Vladimir Putin consolidated political and economic power while muting independent media organisations, but may now adopt a harder line.

As prominent as Iraq appears in US foreign policy now, priorities can change quickly. The world, and the US perspective on it, seemed very different before the terror attacks of September 11, 2001, said Cronin. "One single act of terrorism can completely change this agenda, one huge financial crisis, one assassination" of an ally, Cronin said. "It's incredible how you can go in with one agenda and come out with another. "
Posted by: tipper || 01/02/2005 7:05:37 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [265 views] Top|| File under:

#1  What? No honorable mentions. Excuse me, but when I see a citation by Joe 'Chia Head' Biden, I lose my lunch.
Posted by: Captain America || 01/02/2005 18:23 Comments || Top||


Army Medics Receive Intense Training
FORT CAMPBELL, Ky. (AP) - As the insurgents in Iraq step up their attacks, the Army has increased the intensity of its training of battlefield medics. That has meant moving the training from classrooms to more realistic settings and teaching medics to keep fighting the enemy - even if it means sometimes delaying treatment of the wounded.

``One medic on his weapon returning fire can make the difference between the enemy staying and continuing to fire on us, or saying `Whoa, I got to go,''' said Capt. Brad Tibbetts, the officer in charge of the Alfred V. Rascon School of Combat Medicine at Fort Campbell. ``That's one thing we teach them - when to delay and when you can't.''

This year, about 500 medics and others who work in small, isolated units will undergo training at the school. They attend the class partly to refresh skills they acquired during a 16-week course at Fort Sam Houston in Texas, where all new Army medics take civilian emergency medical technician classes and study battlefield techniques. Much of the training at the Fort Campbell school is conducted using strikingly lifelike dummies controlled by computers. The dummies ``bleed,'' breathe, blink and have a pulse.

Nearly 90 percent of Americans wounded in Iraq are surviving, compared with 73 percent in Vietnam and 78 percent in the 1991 Persian Gulf War. Col. Richard Agee, chief of staff of the U.S. Army Medical Department and School, credited better body armor and better training of medical personnel.

Master Sgt. Luis Rodriguez, the noncommissioned officer in charge of the training at the school, is a former medic who was hit by mortar fire in Iraq. He lost a leg, but the use of a tourniquet helped save his life. He said the first thing he tells the medics is that the enemy will fire at them even if they are rendering aid, and they must be prepared to fight. ``The most important piece of equipment isn't your aid bag, it's your rifle,'' Rodriguez said. ``We have to be aggressive, compassionate at the same time. But you have to bring the evil to the enemy.''

Fort Campbell started holding the final test for the class in a dark room after 101st Airborne Division medics returning from Afghanistan said they were not prepared to treat the wounded without light.

In a recent test, an out-of-breath Pfc. Merinda Karn rushed to the scene with aid bag in hand for a test of her medic skills. The 20-year-old Karn, who weighs about 140 pounds, was out of breath when she ran in to take the test because she had run six miles that morning and then dragged a 185-pound soldier about 200 yards before dashing into the room. She flunked the test because in the dark she failed to feel an exit wound in the back of her ``casualty,'' and it ``died.''

Afterward, the lights came on in the room and taps played. An instructor discussed what she did wrong. ``I just wasn't as thorough as I should've been,'' Karn said, before leaving the room to write a letter to the ``casualty's'' parents, also part of the medic training.

Tibbetts said it is OK to make mistakes here. ``I guarantee she probably won't miss it again,'' he said. ``If they learn it here, that's a good thing.''
Posted by: Steve White || 01/02/2005 12:25:27 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [250 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Tibbetts said it is OK to make mistakes here.

Good! The medics are getting some good high-quality training at last. Making the students write a letter to the parents is one way of making the consequences real to the trainees.

I wish they had done similar efforts at realism and consequences when I was in. It might have saved me some greif during my time on active duty.
Posted by: N Guard || 01/02/2005 14:04 Comments || Top||


International-UN-NGOs
More Disaster Photos and Videos
H/T Drudge

Via Yahoo:
Photos

Via Cheese and Crackers:
Videos (tons of them with mirrors)
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 2:27:08 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [300 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Don't know how long this link will last, but...
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 2:31 Comments || Top||


ElBaradei Unchallenged for Third Term as IAEA Head
Mohamed ElBaradei will run unchallenged for a third term as head of the U.N. nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said on Saturday, despite Washington's campaign to oust him. ElBaradei, an Egyptian lawyer, recently announced he would seek reelection as director general of the agency he has headed since 1997. No other candidates came forward before the deadline for nominations at the turn of the year, the IAEA said. "No new candidates were submitted for the position of director general," IAEA spokeswoman Melissa Fleming said.

Some U.S. and other countries' officials have privately complained that ElBaradei was not only soft on Iraq and Iran, but had also withheld information from the IAEA board of governors that could boost the U.S. campaign to refer Iran to the U.N. Security Council for economic sanctions. ElBaradei says there is no clear proof that Washington is right and Iran is seeking the bomb -- an allegation that Tehran denies. But he has repeatedly said the jury was still out. Countries on the IAEA's 35-nation board of governors will attempt to reach a common position before deciding whether to re-elect ElBaradei. Diplomats say that could take several months given Washington's opposition to ElBaradei.

However, Washington's efforts to oust him were damaged last month by allegations that the United States had access to wiretaps on ElBaradei's telephone. The Washington Post reported in December that U.S. officials had been combing through intercepted phone conversations between ElBaradei and Iranian officials for evidence of mistakes that could be used to force his ouster. U.S. officials have said they can block ElBaradei's re-election but diplomats have said it is unlikely Washington could now muster the 12 votes on the 35-nation IAEA board needed to block ElBaradei's re-election. The administration of President Bush has a long history of dissatisfaction with ElBaradei, which began with his refusal to back U.S. allegations that Saddam Hussein had revived his clandestine atom bomb program.
Lessee, we offered AQ Kahn, Rafsanjani, and I can't remember who else. Sheesh, with 6 billion people on the planet, and probably about 1 million of those more qualified to head the IAEA than Elbaradei, ya think this is another of those General Assembly "messages" to the Evil USofA? Time to pull out Le Veto - better the position is empty than to have bogus "Nope, didn't see anything!" reports from this Arab Apologist.
We committed a blunder by not putting up a candidate. You can't beat something with nothing ...
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 1:42:52 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [427 views] Top|| File under:

#1  3rd ElBaradei term = Iranian nuclear capability = WW III
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 2:29 Comments || Top||

#2  My position: Time to FUCK THEM ALTOGETHER.

By the way, Zenster, about what you said about the American consumer ...

HOW THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT US TO HAVE ANY EFFECTIVENESS AGAINST CHINA IF THAT'S WHAT OUR PEOPLE ARE MADE UP OF???
Posted by: Edward Yee || 01/02/2005 3:26 Comments || Top||

#3  That we did not put up a candidate may reflect that we could not succeed in getting enough countries to vote for an alternative. Rather than be defeated in a vote whose outcome was known, we chose to skip the vote and the defeat. But the real defeat here has probably been suffered by the UN. This is the kind of thing one does when one's attitude is, "Who gives a shit."
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 01/02/2005 7:34 Comments || Top||

#4  I do think it was a mistake not to put someone up. Make it a good tough candidate. Sure, you have no chance of getting him through, but then when this creep gets back in, say "Well, we tried to make the IAEA effective, but they insisted on putting the fox back in charge of henhouse security, so we'll do it on our own."
Posted by: jackal || 01/02/2005 11:11 Comments || Top||

#5  That's not W's way. He won't make a fuss in public because he knows it'll just generate more negative publicity. He'll just do what you suggest quietly in the background.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 01/02/2005 11:22 Comments || Top||

#6  Zenster, about what you said about the American consumer ...

HOW THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT US TO HAVE ANY EFFECTIVENESS AGAINST CHINA IF THAT'S WHAT OUR PEOPLE ARE MADE UP OF???


Edward, I was quoting (incorrectly, it turns out) the acerbic author Henry Mencken.

“No one in this world, so far as I know, has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people.”

— H. L. Mencken —

It seems Mencken was painting with a much broader brush than just the American public, which is actually more appropriate.

I'd like to think that this is why we elect leaders; So that they can utilize tools of state in order to notify the public of trends and methods whereby they can help implement foreign policy or national security.

We have the Department of Homeland Security recruiting our citizenry in order to maintain better security at airports and public gathering places. Yet, our government is conspicuously silent about the threat that China represents to American and world prosperity alike.

I feel that this is due to economic influence (or pressure) applied by special interests that stand to lose money if the torrent of cheap goods flowing from China is finally choked off. These special interests have not one whit of concern about America's manufacturing capacity, merely it's buying power. If burger flippers can purchase their products, then this entire nation could be made up of burger flippers, for all they care.

Wal-Mart is an economic Trojan horse. Municipalities provide huge tax incentives for siting of their superstores only to have their small business communities hollowed out. Furthermore, Wal-Mart compensates their employees so poorly that community services like health provision and childcare are suddenly burdened by these same underpaid workers. To top it off, Wal-Mart sells people low quality goods made by a country that operates directly counter to American interests world-wide. That US consumers are so cost sensitive whereby they willingly subsidize such an organization does not speak well for their level of common sense.

Similarly, that our government continues to downplay the looming threat which China represents in the face of their financing North Korea and proliferating weapons technology to Iran is a gross dereliction of duty. China already subverts segments of America's economy through institutionalized copyright piracy and theft of intellectual property. Other branches of our public services are burdened by the flood of refugees and illegal immigrants fleeing communist China. Yet, while correctly identifying an "Axis of Evil," the White House cannot bring itself to notice how China's economic contributions and military support in Iran will finally necessitate armed intervention at the cost of BILLIONS of dollars.

What prevents the Bush administration from doing this? The ramifications are glaringly obvious. China's communists are destabilizing the exact same area we are spending untold billions of dollars to pacify and introduce democracy into. There is a direct clash of National security interests that continues to be greeted with thundering silence. We face the possibility of Iran equipping terrorists with a nuclear weapon for potential use against America. How can this possibly escape the notice of our government?

If it hasn't, why then are there not more significant measures in place to counter the threat of Chinese support for our enemies? The inability of Bush to directly address this issue is a searing indictment of his will to defeat antidemocratic (read: communist) forces at work in this world.

The sham that ElBaradei and Europe's dalliance with Iran represent are merely symptomatic of an overarching malaise. There is a prevailing global blindness to exactly where and how the threat of terrorism is being bred up. Few other nations willingly recognize that all support for terrorist regimes must be cut off. Somehow, just about no one is willing to point at China's underwriting of these terrorist sponsors, Bush included. America deserves better.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 16:21 Comments || Top||

#7  Once again you have expended 1,000 words without benefit of a plan, Grasshopper. How do you propose to deal with China and Iran starting NOW? Lets talk about "next steps" instead of just Bush-bashing. What should happen NEXT? Cut off all trade with China? Blockade Iranian oil to China? Be specific, Grasshopper.
Posted by: Tom || 01/02/2005 16:33 Comments || Top||

#8  Ah, the man-without-a-non-nuclear-plan demands that others provide one.

We need to begin instituting tariffs on Chinese goods that benefit from their institutionalized theft of intellectual property and copyright piracy. Whichever Chinese industries are controlled by the military or powered by prison labor should face trade barriers. Prohibit the import of products that rely upon unfair price competition through lax environmental enforcement or human rights violations by manufacturers. There are many ways to erect well-justified trade restrictions against the flood of unfairly leveraged Chinese goods. Forcing China to realistically peg their currency would be another good start.

While a blockade of Middle East oil is not a functional solution, crippling Iran's petroleum export capability would certainly fire a warning shot across China's bow. Damaging Kharg Island's supertanker facility would instantly curtail Iran's petro-dollar income and place a damper on China's access to cheap oil. Iran's nuclear threat to regional and global stability is the perfect pretense for doing so.

All righty then, Tom. What solutions do you have to present? Or are you just here to carp? A substantial portion of your own posts deal with the inappropriate use of nuclear weapons but rarely demonstrate any real-world functionality.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 16:58 Comments || Top||

#9  You're here for therapy, Zenless, why can't Tom be here for carping? You come and bitch for 1000 (or more) words and he can't write 50 that differ? Pshaw. That has a rather fascist flavor, doesn't it?
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 17:08 Comments || Top||

#10  You come and bitch for 1000 (or more) words and he can't write 50 that differ?

I'm just waiting for Tom to start providing some actual solutions, instead of his usual nuke-em-all strategy. He can write whatever he wants, but lack of constructive criticism doesn't cut any ice with me.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 17:28 Comments || Top||

#11  Since you've stepped into the fray, .com, let's hear your solutions to how we should go about reining in communist China. Or do you not see any problem with their incessant meddling?
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 17:30 Comments || Top||

#12  It was only 593 words Tom.
Posted by: Shipman || 01/02/2005 17:33 Comments || Top||

#13  BTW what's the commie chinks stand on 2 fag families? I figure they're for the 0 child aspect but against the social upheavel it might cause which would mightily slow down their rise towards world domination thru inexpensive textiles and quality whiz bangs.
Posted by: Shipman || 01/02/2005 17:38 Comments || Top||

#14  Like the U.N., Grasshopper, you think that using many words can solve problems, but you don't realize that truths tend to be concise. Your many words are poorly chosen:

1) Believe it or not, most Chinese industries are neither controlled by the military nor powered by prison labor.

2) Lax Chinese environmental enforcement is not the issue either. What would you enforce, U.S. standards? Would you write Chinese law for the Chinese?

3) You say "human rights violations by manufacturers" but what you must mean is "low wages". That's what affects prices and thus sales the most. So you want the Chinese to raise their prices. Then we can buy less for more. And they will still have the money to buy oil from Iran.

4) "Forcing China to realistically peg their currency..." How? What is this force?

5) "Damaging Kharg Island's supertanker facility..." Instant WWIII, Grasshopper.

In fact, almost everything you advocate in your anti-Chicom rants is a ticket to a WWIII with China. You would do well to study the background on the start of WWII as regards Japan and oil. And when WWIII begins, and I have little doubt that it will eventually, we had best try to keep the Chicoms out of it. Right now the Chicoms are moving toward capitalism and we have other fish to fry. As for nukes, we will only win a world war against the Axis of Evil the same way as before -- by obliterating our foes. Luckily, this time we have the arsenal ready.

Grasshopper, if I give you the one corner of a problem and you cannot find the other three corners by yourself, the lesson will not be repeated!
Posted by: Tom || 01/02/2005 17:48 Comments || Top||

#15  Now, now...

"doesn't cut any ice with me"

RB isn't your site and it's not your call. You are tolerated, no? So is Tom. The debates here are often silly - especially when it gets arisified into a shitfest about Aris - the topic long lost. Usually, we're all talking past each other, rather than to each other. The maxim is that Internet Debate Isn't - that it's actually a joke.

I disagree with or find fault in much posted - hell, my own included viewed a day or more later, lol - but have respect for those who "grow" - and you've seen it when a discussion (not a debate) occurs and someone actually changes their POV because of info others posted. That's cool and laudable - on the part of the person honest enough to acknowledge another's point or data. Otherwise, it's just I think this vs I thank that. Opinionated assholes, lol - you can get that tripe anywhere.

RB is what we make it, collectively. It could be more than a bunch of soap boxes scattered around Hyde Park. Those who try to use it to acquire some sort of standing are fools fooling themselves.

China! Nuke 'em! (Happy? Subtext: I'll post what I think about China when I'm good and ready, K? You don't control my schedule, lol!)
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 17:55 Comments || Top||

#16  .com, did you have to use the four letter word of he who should not be named? You know he searches the site to find his name so he can turn an otherwise interesting thread into an opportunity to have everyone gaze into his glorious navel.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 01/02/2005 18:05 Comments || Top||

#17  Mrs D - You're absolutely right - and definitely my bad. I promise it won't happen again, lol! Honest.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 18:21 Comments || Top||

#18  Zenster is a deconstructionist, and his arrogance and continual penchant for pontificating is anything but "Zen."

His ultimate goal is to disrupt necessary and important societal norms as well as present political structures and conduits of political energies, and replace them with new arrangements, of his own making, that favor his particular views. In other words, he's not really here to discuss things. He's here to "make things happen."

One of his tools toward that goal is to slowly syphon people's support away from president Bush (as he also was doing before the election), by ongoing attempts at criticism, and by inserting pseudo-conservative militantism (ala Andrew Sullivan--"gays can be pro-military too") that is actually devoid of intelligent political thought or real solutions. Interestingly, during the pre-election conversations here, there was NOT ONE WORD about John Kerry from him. I found the silence both deafening and revealing. Now, as then, most of his arguments pivot on how "terrible" the current administration is, and how stupid and unworthy underdeveloped nations are. He has a clearly fascist outlook toward world affairs and his "political" positions always remind me of the comic book-like self-proclaimed "savior geniuses" who eventually turn out to be the arch villain dictators with aspirations toward world domination. His harping about the Islamofascists and DOMA have the same whining ring to them and probably emanate from the same personal stance he takes on sexual "orientation."

His smaller aim, and the aim of his little group of parrots on Rantburg, is to to "gain a following" among the unsuspecting, and through it to change public opinion, and if possible, the course of the nation. In fact, his agenda has become so abundantly clear to seasoned posters, and his methods for achieving it so startlingly apparent in their duplicity, that Antiwar and Gentle would be proud to call him "bro." The "greek guy" already does.

What to do? Not sure, but we already know he has loads of time to spend here, and I can promise that his redundancy will NOT cease or be genuinely modified. His method will be to continue to post things he thinks people want to hear, and then he will "test" the waters by sometimes revealing his true political directions, then he will adjust his tactics somewhat depending on the feedback he gets, then he'll go again. Over and over and over and over--until he is satisfied that he has been persuasive.

As for me, I WILL NEVER BE PERSUADED by the idiocy of "Captain Z-Troll."

Posted by: ex-lib || 01/02/2005 18:49 Comments || Top||

#19  Rrrrrrrrrrip! Lol, ex-lib!
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 19:20 Comments || Top||

#20  1) Believe it or not, most Chinese industries are neither controlled by the military nor powered by prison labor.

Some still are and inappropriate government participation in China's manufacturing sector is the source of much corruption. We'll refrain from mentioning how it has also contributed to massive bad bank debt that is slowly coming home to roost.

2) Lax Chinese environmental enforcement is not the issue either. What would you enforce, U.S. standards? Would you write Chinese law for the Chinese?

If China is obtaining corporate profitability through massive environmental damage (much like the machiladoras in Mexico) then we need to offset such shortsighted business practices through tariffs. However misguided the Kyoto protocols may be, they still represent some sort of approach towards environmental responsibility, a notion that remains completely foreign to the Chinese mandarins.

3) You say "human rights violations by manufacturers" but what you must mean is "low wages". That's what affects prices and thus sales the most. So you want the Chinese to raise their prices. Then we can buy less for more. And they will still have the money to buy oil from Iran.

No, I do not mean "low wages." Those are your words, not mine. I'm talking about incredibly hazardous workplace conditions. Ever follow the incessant stream of coal mine disasters in China? That's just the tip of the iceberg. Cutting corners on workplace safety to such an extent that it kills the labor force is an unfair competitive advantage and needs to be penalized.

4) "Forcing China to realistically peg their currency..." How? What is this force?

How about the threat of a trade embargo? Something our spineless politicians just can't seem to comprehend.

5) "Damaging Kharg Island's supertanker facility..." Instant WWIII

Really? I do believe that now you are the one who is over-reacting. America has every right to go in and interdict Iran's nuclear weapons program. I doubt that even China is insane enough to militarily respond against such a move.

Unless you mean that China is using the threat of military retaliation if America attempts to neutralize Iran's nuclear weapons program. Again, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Right now the Chicoms are moving toward capitalism and we have other fish to fry.

Unfortunately, the Chinese are using their unfair competitive advantage to finance a steady stream of destabilizing regimes which constitute a threat to America. Diverting massive amounts of our national budget towards combating these various rogue governments is both costly and counter-productive. We will not win the war on terrorism by putting out each individual flare-up as it ignites. There will come a time where a real firebreak must be established between such flash points and those who keep lighting them off.

At some point, support for these various tyrannies and hostile entities must be cut off at the source. One major source is communist China. Merely crushing the upstarts will not solve the actual problem. Your plan of waiting around for the communists to go capitalist will come at the price of confronting a fully modernized and and even more well-armed Chinese military. Measures are better taken now while China is still relatively vulnerable. Waiting until later only assures that China will show even less regard for any consequences that their aggression might entail.

Tom, your "status quo" approach is clearly not viable. In such a scenario, America is faced with thwarting an endless succession of threats-by-proxy being ginned up by China. The economic drain of doing so is not sustainable. Your approach plays directly into China's hands and does nothing to solve the problem.

#15 RB isn't your site and it's not your call.

Where do I say it is, .com? That Tom's incessant sniping doesn't cut any ice with me, is my own call to make. I'm not telling him, or anyone else for that matter, that he shouldn't post here. I just refuse to accept criticism that is devoid of constructive content.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 19:21 Comments || Top||

#21  You appear agitated, Grasshopper.
Posted by: Tom || 01/02/2005 19:28 Comments || Top||

#22  You appear agitated, Grasshopper.

Not in the least, Tom, that's merely you projecting (something you are rather accomplished at). I'm just waiting for you to drop the childish personalities and display some actual forensic ability.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 19:38 Comments || Top||

#23  Is a legal background a prerequisite for posting here? I thought this was a spook site. But then, perhaps there's no difference.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 01/02/2005 19:45 Comments || Top||

#24  "I just refuse to accept criticism that is devoid of constructive content."

When, pray tell, have you EVER accepted criticism from ANYBODY? That same phrasing and attitude is the signature of The One That Shall Not Be Named - and he is loved and respected for it, no? Lol! Pfeh. You don't even acknowledge the ideas or thoughts of others unless:
1) they agree with you, then you post a "pat on the head"
2) you are sucking up to someone here whom you perceive to have wide respect

ex-lib has your number. So do I, Jen, and phil_b. We've seen what's under the cloak - and it's an ugly moonbat looneytoon agenda. Others will figure it out, too - long before you make it to "authoritative" or "respected".
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 19:50 Comments || Top||

#25  Much corruption, massive environmental damage, shortsighted business practices, incredibly hazardous workplace conditions -- mercy, sounds like they'd sink under the weight of all that. Except that you could describe the U.S. of 100 years ago that way.

Damaging Kharg Island is not a prescription for dealing with Iran's nuclear program. It's just a way to escalate the problems. And it's a classic example of Zenster grasshopper thinking that would pit us directly against over a billion Chinese in addition to the WOT.

My approach is to take out the Iranian nuclear program and the mullahs in one massive strike, sparing as much Iranian population and oil capacity as possible. No invasion. The secondary goal would be to scare the hell out of all of our adversaries and the remaining Iranians by unleashing only a tiny portion of our nuke capability. We will never prevail over the mullahs or other Islamic fanatics through diplomacy. For us to win, their only perceived choice must be religion of peace or extermination.
Posted by: Tom || 01/02/2005 19:55 Comments || Top||

#26  The far flung legions of Lucky are gathering in the night.
Posted by: Shipman || 01/02/2005 19:57 Comments || Top||

#27  When, pray tell, have you EVER accepted criticism from ANYBODY?

On a regular basis, especially when such persons display a polite and productive attitude. I cannot count the excellent advice countless thoughtful people have gifted me with that has become part of my daily decision-making process.

We've seen what's under the cloak - and it's an ugly moonbat looneytoon agenda.

While that's your privilege to maintain, I find it absolutely laughable. Need I detail how many of my liberal friends label me as "reactionary" because of how I poke gaping holes in their fantasy-based approach to global politics?

Tom, because you are more recently arrived here, I'll point out that long ago I suggested a full decap of the mullahs and their nuclear sites. Along side of those points I also mentioned how Kharg island should be taken out of service by pinching off the pipelines that feed it, not by destroying the pumping complex itself.

As to your own propositions:

The secondary goal would be to scare the hell out of all of our adversaries and the remaining Iranians by unleashing only a tiny portion of our nuke capability.

Upon whom do you propose "unleashing only a tiny portion of our nuke capability"? Such a move would specifically invite terrorist nuclear retaliation upon American soil and escalate the war against terrorism in a dramatic fashion.

Please clarify exactly where and when you would like to start WW III. Your suggestions go a lot further towards sparking such a conflict than my own do.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 20:15 Comments || Top||

#28  "On a regular basis"

ROFL!!! Right, lol, you're such a generous poster! Oh, may face hurts - thanks for the laugh. As for your friends and their reaction - hey, good. What is just is and everyone dealing with reality is a help. Those not dealing with reality are, by definition, lost in phantasy. Everyone who can join us in the real world is welcome. I made that leap, leaving behind the silly and clueless, yet remarkably dangerous, world of bleeding hearts. I hope they make it, too.


"I find it absolutely laughable"

Funny - so do I!

Now, uh, let's see. Who was the President from 2000-2004?

And who will be sworn in as the President on Jan 20, 2005?

Just wondering, Mr Consistency.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 20:25 Comments || Top||

#29  Now, uh, let's see. Who was the President from 2000-2004?

And who will be sworn in as the President on Jan 20, 2005?


George W. Bush was seated as president by the supreme court during 2000 - 2004.

George W. Bush actually won election to the American presidency on November 2, 2004.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 20:33 Comments || Top||

#30  Grasshopper, how can you be in so many places at once when you're not anywhere at all?
Posted by: Tom || 01/02/2005 20:34 Comments || Top||

#31  Well, you are consistent on that point, lol!
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 20:35 Comments || Top||

#32  George W. Bush was seated as president by the supreme court during 2000 - 2004.

GIVE IT A FRIGGIN’ REST !

Let’s have a little lesson in politics. Our system of presidential election is that, by and large, each state gives “electoral votes” not “popular votes” toward the election of a president. That’s been the U.S. system for, like forever.

The question in 2000 was who won the popular vote in Florida -- because whoever won the popular vote in Florida took the electoral votes for the state, and thereby won the national election. The question of who won the popular vote in Florida was marred by Democrats trying to set up selective recounting procedures that violated Florida statutes governing elections, in select portions of Florida, using invented techniques of ballot counting, after the MSM had already screwed the conservative vote in the panhandle.

It was entirely appropriate for the U.S. Supreme Court to step in, addressing a federal question about a federal election, and put a stop to the monkey business. But, the most amazing thing is this rather underreported news gem:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A comprehensive study of the 2000 presidential election in Florida suggests that if the U.S. Supreme Court had allowed a statewide vote recount to proceed, Republican candidate George W. Bush would still have been elected president. The National Opinion Research Center (NORC) at the University of Chicago conducted the six-month study for a consortium of eight news media companies, including CNN.
Posted by: cingold || 01/02/2005 21:07 Comments || Top||

#33  Regards China (lol!) 3 things are crystal clear to me... I do not have the range of expertise needed to cover the range of aspects and considerations that need to be covered.

1) They represent the largest state threat we will ever face. As implacable as Islam, but several orders of magnitude more intelligent and (Lol - long time since I used this term!) diabolical than mere Jihadis and Mad Mullahs.

2) Every President from Truman on has underestimated them. And, also starting from that point, each has hamstrung his successor more than he started with in terms of how we can deal with them, further limiting our options, until now we are faced with either continuing the status quo until they are our miltary match and they choose the timing - or we initiate the inevitable break and treat them as pure adversaries to be defeated in every venue we can address. Wholesale and total defeat is probably the only thing that will do. And, of course, this is where a wide range of expertise for a workable and reasoned set of strategies, is needed, from economics to logistics to military.

3) We need to act sooner, rather than later. Soon enough, they'll even steal the Whitehouse silver set - to go... with... the... china. Nevermind, bad pun. But sooner is far far better militarily. They're stealing and or buying (via so-called neutrals and allies alike) our technological lead. We must take them on before they have any more. Yesterday would've been good. Or back when Truman fired MacArthur would've been a helluvalot better.

That's all I have to say about that. At the moment.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 21:10 Comments || Top||

#34  .com, you and I are in total agreement regarding China. I'm glad to see you have that sort of perspective. Not enough people do and it is downright scary to see so much inaction with respect to a threat that is on such a massive scale.

So, Tom, got any non-nuclear solutions to suggest? I can only regard your status quo attitude and willingness to initiate a nuclear attack as being totally deluded.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 21:31 Comments || Top||

#35  Mrs. Davis, you also forgot to mention how I hypnotize everyone into mentioning me so that I have an excuse to "arisify" the thread. Still no word from Fred on the issue I mentioned. As for you, tell us again about the need to recognize the independence of the Macedonians, please.

Tom, for someone who recently spoke about the need not to use condescension when speaking, what exactly do you think the repetition of the word "Grasshopper" indicates if not that? Follow your own damn advice, kiddo. And as for China going capitalist - true. Too damn bad it's not going any more democratic or freedom-loving, or any less imperialistic. For thousands upon thousands of years imperialists didn't need communism to be dangerous you know.

If anything the fact that China's going capitalist is all the more dangerous as it's installing an actually *functional* economic system beneath the motor of its aggression. Soviet Imperialism was doomed to failure because of the dysfunctional economic system of the Soviet Union. Your gladness about China going capitalist should have been dismay instead: the dragon is putting sharper teeth within its jaws, but its mind remains as evil.

Hi, ex-lib. This "greek guy" still wishes you to either back up or apologize for the outrageous slander you spoke against me in this thread, when you claimed that "he's said so himself" that "if he can influence toward an anti-American ideology, he’s done his bit".

When did I ever "say so myself", ex-lib?

.com> Have you ever thought that when a person doesn't change his mind after speaking with you, the failure may be yours rather than his?

How's *this* for arisifying a thread? I mean after three people bringing me up in different insulting ways, I choose to appear. As someone said -- just like Beetlejuice. No worries about spelling out my name, though, implication also works.

Bullies always hate it when people stand up to them -- just like liars hate it when their lies are challenged, bigots when their bigotry is exposed, and hypocrits when their hypocrisy is revealed.

Now .com has been recently going into rants against people strong enough in their opinions that mere repetition of insults against them doesn't cause them to yield in submission. Yes: It's called actually needing *arguments* to change an honest person's mind. You can't bully your way into convincing them, .com.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 01/02/2005 21:32 Comments || Top||

#36  The only thing that makes you of note is that everyone knows who is being referred to when such phrases as total fucking arrogant pissant asshole child and other such endearments are mentioned. So don't get all swelled up, sonny, You're still irrelevant, an attention whore, and a leech of the First Order (How is that massive Tip Jar contribution coming, BTW, LEECH-BOY?). Toddle off back to your playpen, now.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 21:37 Comments || Top||

#37  Oy, *that's* the kind of argument that will convince a person. Come on! Use some more of those analytical and synthetical abilities against me. The inventiveness of the insults shall shut me up. Any decade now, you'll succeed where in the past years you've failed.

As for the Tip Jar, it's yet again Fred's choice to decide whether the money are for the forum or the forum is for the money. And I'm afraid that Fred's decision on whether to tell me to take a hike or no will have to be made without any monetary promises on my part.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 01/02/2005 21:47 Comments || Top||

#38  Aris, you cry out for respect and thus are advised to avoid condescension. I seek no respect from Grasshopper or you.

I never said that China isn't a BIG problem. I just don't see the point in cutting off its Iranian oil and forcing an immediate and total confrontation with both Iran and China. Grasshopper would target Kharg Island for no benefit I can see other than to satisfy his impulse to poke a stick at the awakening dragon.
Posted by: Tom || 01/02/2005 21:52 Comments || Top||

#39  Regards, China, again I didn't offer a solution - just made observations on the situation.

I will say that today, using purely conventional arms, and suffering fewer casualties than many would presume on first blush, they could be sent back to the 18th century in a matter of a few days. Their commercial and industrial strength is rather concentrated, their infrastructure and lines of cummunications are extremely vulnerable, their high-tech centers are well known to us, and they can't project power beyond their own neighborhood.

Hell, if we were willing to suffer approx the same casualty rate as Vietnam for aircraft, we could use B-52's, F-15 & F-16 cover and some mud-moving, after the Wild Weasels and Stealth craft took down the "fence". But that's just talk from a grunt - you need a real spook to make it feasible.

Speculation from a non-economist:
The economic impact would be large. We are wired into them and their product assembly & Mfg. No one will build a plant today in the US to make toasters that sell for $14.95 unless the total mfg cost is well under $4 (Isn't 4:1 the common minimum ratio for this sort of item, today, for profitability? Read this somewhere...) - and that ain't happening with our labor costs. So if we remove sources of good, they won't be picked up here - maybe Mexico or Central America - but not in the US. We are priced out of many markets, now, solely on labor alone.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 21:56 Comments || Top||

#40  Aris and Zenster sound pretty much the same to me.
Posted by: ex-lib || 01/02/2005 22:12 Comments || Top||

#41  Golly says Gomer!
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/02/2005 22:29 Comments || Top||

#42  (Isn't 4:1 the common minimum ratio for this sort of item, today, for profitability? Read this somewhere...)

I've heard it as 5:1 or more. I also agree with your strategic assessment. The hit we will take putting China in its place is expanding daily. Failure to act by our politicians (of any stripe) is a disservice to all American people.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 23:08 Comments || Top||

#43  Of course we're leaving out a small fact: political suicide. The number of businesses and people hurt would be enough to swing any election since Nixon - McGovern.

But it's coming.

More Science vs Golden Dragon
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 23:21 Comments || Top||

#44  Of course we're leaving out a small fact: political suicide.

The only reason it's political suicide is because the American public has the global awareness of a hamster. We need to wake up to the threat that communism has always been.

American business is addicted to eating from Uncle Mao's all-you-can-eat fast profits trough. If this nation's people have any brains, they will cheerfully accept paying 10-25% more for their cheap goods and avoid a nuclear war several years from now. It's either that or accept China absorbing much of the east Asian quadrant. Too bad so few people are capable of thinking on such a scale.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 23:37 Comments || Top||


Syria-Lebanon-Iran
US seeks Syrian cooperation on Iraq border
U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Richard Armitage said Sunday there has been progress in Syria's control of its border with Iraq but more needs to be done. Following a meeting with Syrian President Bashar Assad and Foreign Minister Farouk Sharaa in Damascus, Armitage said while Syria has managed to do much to prevent insurgents from infiltrating into Iraq, the government needs "more effort concerning elements of the former Iraqi regime who take part in activities in Iraq, and who enter and leave Syria." Armitage said the Syrian leadership agreed with Washington "on the need to hold the Iraqi elections on time and for the participation of all Iraqis in the polls," scheduled for Jan. 30. He said the message he was carrying from Washington included the "need for Iraq to have friendly relations with Syria in the future and for the Syrians to be committed to such a friendship."
Posted by: Fred || 01/02/2005 12:22:12 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [259 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I'm going to ask nicely once.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 01/02/2005 12:28 Comments || Top||

#2  The U.S. MAY NEVER deal with the Syrians as we should for larger diplomatic reasons. On the other hand, I fully expect that Iraq's new NON-SADAMM controlled government will do some inside Syria eliminations in 2005 and beyond. We WILL NOT hinder Iraq in any way, if the new government should choose such a path.
Posted by: leaddog2 || 01/02/2005 12:51 Comments || Top||

#3  This is getting embarassing. We have been "asking" for many, many months. Hint: they aint gonna change unless they encounter a mind changing experience.

Target bombing at 0300 hours.

-- Roger that, sir.
Posted by: Captain America || 01/02/2005 14:29 Comments || Top||

#4  The "Ask Nicely" box is checked.
The "We Know You're Doing It" box is checked.
The "Sabres Have Been Rattled" box is checked.

What's left except Capt A's demonstation of
"We Really Did Mean It - You Stupid Fucking Arabs" ?
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 15:27 Comments || Top||

#5  I'd say count your fingers after shaking hands with the Syrians, but on the other hand just bomb the assholes if they don't get in line and quit their terrorist ways.
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/02/2005 18:21 Comments || Top||


Iranian Presidential Election Set for June
Posted by: Fred || 01/02/2005 12:17:39 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [291 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Why?
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/02/2005 15:42 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
Red Cross diss Sadam
(oh & Syria Is Next US Target )
from DEBKAfile Exclusive Report
DEBKAfile's Exclusive Middle East sources reveal here the main contents of the Duleimi's briefing to his fellow lawyers and the account of his conversation with Saddam to his journalist friend. The ex-ruler is in good health, the lawyer reported, and says he is in even better shape physically than he was in March 2003 ahead of the war. Now and again he gets sharp twinges of pain in his left shin. Saddam is confined to a cell of five by three meters with no window. Sometimes he is let out to a 15 by 5 meter unroofed hall where he can see the sky. The food he says is good. The American warders do not talk to him but the Iraqi officers who accompany them address him as "Mr. President."

The former Iraqi dictator is cut off from the outside world. Despite some reports, he has no access to newspapers, radio or television. He has received only two letters from his close family, the contents of which were mostly deleted or cut out by the censors. He spends most of his time writing but would not disclose his subjects, except to say that some of it is poetry. Duleimi quoted a line of Saddam's "verse:" "If you can't be the head, don't be the backside because there is nothing there but a tail." He had two main gripes. One was that the Americans will not let him shave his beard despite his repeated requests. He even offered to let a US military barber shave him, but they refused. His theory is that the Americans want to make sure that whenever he appears in public, as he did on June 30, 2004 before an Iraqi investigating judge, he will look confused, unkempt and too low in spirits to bother to shave. His second complaint was against the Red Cross workers. He wanted their visits stopped because he said they are neither polite nor respectful.
Posted by: Classer || 01/02/2005 4:24:26 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [256 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I always wondered how the interrogators address the former high ranking officials.
Posted by: Seafarious || 01/02/2005 14:57 Comments || Top||


Africa: Horn
Sudanese President Suggests Power Sharing
Encouraged by the signing of a peace deal with southern rebels, Sudan's president suggested Saturday that he may hold power and wealth sharing talks with rebels fighting army forces in the western region of Darfur. Thousands of Sudanese turned out in the capital, Khartoum, to welcome the return of the government delegation that negotiated the deal in the Kenyan city of Naivasha on Friday to end the 21-year southern civil war. Opposition groups also embraced the peace accords and cease-fire agreement signed by government officials and southern rebels.

The agreements cleared the way for warring sides to sign a comprehensive peace deal next month in the Kenyan capital, Nairobi. South African President Thabo Mbeki, who witnessed the deal signing in Naivasha, also was greeted by 50,000 people in Darfur, the site of a separate conflict in western Sudan that has killed tens of thousands of villagers and displaced nearly 2 million from their homes since fighting started in February 2003.
Posted by: Fred || 01/02/2005 12:18:37 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [271 views] Top|| File under:


Israel-Palestine
Abbas Offers to Protect Mideast Militants
Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas told hundreds of armed militants at a Gaza campaign rally Sunday that he would never abandon them and would fight to protect them from Israeli raids. In his presidential campaign to replace Yasser Arafat, Abbas is courting support from gunmen considered heroes by many Palestinians but terrorists by most Israelis. Israeli troops, meanwhile, concluded a three-day operation in southern Gaza early Sunday just as they began another operation in northern Gaza. Israel says it was targeting militants who fire homemade rockets and mortar rounds at Israeli towns and settlements. Three Israeli civilians were wounded in such attacks Sunday, one seriously.
Posted by: Fred || 01/02/2005 12:15:09 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [422 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Huh! This is suspicious.
Posted by: leaddog2 || 01/02/2005 12:53 Comments || Top||

#2  Um, how is he going to manage this? Heh. Seems to me that until the Paleo Air Force exists and controls the airspace, he's sorta full of shit. Just political poop for mass consumption, methinks.

"Please pass the hot buttered grub clusters, Mom!"
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 15:31 Comments || Top||

#3  This from today's Jpost seems to indicate that it is the same old tune.

calls for the destruction of the State of Israel again being broadcast on state run Palestinian Television


"We say no to a return to 1967 borders... we are
interested in returning to the true borders of out
country, we want to go back to the 1948 borders... and we shall yet return to them," went the Friday sermon read out by Ibrahim Mudayris, according to a translation of the Arabic released Sunday by the Jerusalem based 'Palestinian Media Watch.'

The weekly televised Palestinian sermon went on to
warn America against moving its embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, a move mandated by the US Congress, warning that it will be "the last nail in America's coffin."

"By the life of Allah, America will be buried on the day her embassy is moved to Jerusalem," the sermon continued.


Certainly don't believe in Dennis Ross' understanding of the situation

Optimism from Ross
Posted by: Cynic || 01/02/2005 16:25 Comments || Top||

#4  "Please pass the hot buttered grub clusters, Mom!"

Cripes, .com. If you're going to lift Firesign Theater's work, please do it right.

It's "hot buttered groat clusters."

Hungry for anything, George gets more than he bargained for when he accepts the Pastor’s offer for Hot Buttered Groat Clusters. "My God, it’s still warm," George exclaims ...

You're confusing groat clusters with the episode out at the "Wild West Dude Ranch" where chuckwagon cook Medium Raré offers up grubs cooked in holy corn oil. That is, oil from the corns of holy men. "Grubs again, grumble grumble ..."

What's more, Porgy's mom is cooking him groatcakes. "Don't eat with your hands, son. Use your entrenching tool!" Aside from that, I really enjoy your (however mangled) references to one of the best comedy teams that has ever come down the pike since The Marx Brothers.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 17:21 Comments || Top||

#5  LOL! Don't you ever try that again PD or you will be chastised.
Posted by: Shipman || 01/02/2005 17:41 Comments || Top||

#6  Lol - You must still have access to the LP's... I'm so jealous I could *spit*! I haven't heard them in, oh, 30+ years *grumble grumble*...

Sorry, you're right - I muffed the punt!

I heard them all numerous times, but it was sooooo long ago... I'm now like the Granny the Cops stop coming out of the psycho-rocka-rocka Old Folks Dance Marathon - and her "stash" is merely asprin, heh.

I did get that reference right, didn't I?

And maybe we should also set up a "strategic" lending library and drop books, "The Naked Lunch", IIRC, on the Sunni Triangle. Who could complain? Hmmm, the Librarian Vote, yumm!

Memory tripping... Absolutely agreed that Firesign was the best, funniest, most innovative, most complex, most relevant "comedy" (I consider so much more than that, lol!) ever, lol!

I have a library of Firesign sound files - none containing the groat clusters, lol - if anyone's interested. I'll make up a page all, lessee, 31 of them if so.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 17:42 Comments || Top||

#7  Sorry, you're right - I muffed the punt!

S'alright. At least you have the class to quote some of the best modern humor there is. My severe mental scarring proficient recall of their work can probably be traced back to seeing Firesign live a few times.

Their multi-level content remains largely unsurpassed by all modern humorists save Robin Williams (who I've also seen live). Only The Simpsons makes any sort of similar effort to include such strong literary reference and historical footnotes.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 18:25 Comments || Top||

#8  Ship - Have you heard them? Hey - credit where due - they really do deserve correct quotation, lol! I wish I had the CD's I've heard about - hearing one end to end is the most incredible mind trip - and they are so spot-on it's spooky, heh. The best part is that you can listen 5 times - and hear something you missed with each pass. Incredible work.

These guys were so incredibly talented it boggled.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 18:33 Comments || Top||

#9  Hey - credit where due - they really do deserve correct quotation, lol!

It's nothing short of hysterically funny that both of us find ourselves in complete agreement on this particular point. How hilarious.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 19:29 Comments || Top||

#10  Right is right - and I do give credit where due, it's just reality, heh - I'm no fool, lol!
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 19:53 Comments || Top||

#11  Never hoid of 'em. I gotta go, it's my time for a bottle of Damn It All. (comes with a lid you can chew on).

Posted by: Shipman || 01/02/2005 20:03 Comments || Top||

#12  Never hoid of 'em.

Please accept my sincere condolences on leading such a deprived existence. I recommend starting with "The Further Adventures of Nick Danger" off of "All Hail Marx and Lennon" ("How Can You Be In Two Places at Once When You Aren't Anywhere at All?") or "Waiting for the Electrician or Somebody Like Him."

"Mah fellow settlers. We stand here on the banks of the Mississippi River looking west, towards a new frontier. What may appear to the faint-hearted as a limitless expanse of Godforsaken territory is, in reality, a golden opportunity for ourselve and our children and the generations a'comin' to carve a neeeeeewwww life out of the American ... Indian!"
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 20:28 Comments || Top||

#13  And in reading it, Ship, I heard it - a Gabby Hayes voice. Bravo! The memory trips is a scream! Thx, Zenster - great laugh!

As I said, I'll post the best sound files I can find, if anyone wants to listen.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 20:34 Comments || Top||

#14  Post the Rough-As-A-Cob March.
Posted by: Dave D. || 01/02/2005 20:41 Comments || Top||

#15  Dave - A little background, key phrases, something? I don't recall that, specifically. I've found a motherlode of the files, too, but that one doesn't ring a bell...

Here's a source page to a bunch of sites - and part of the FT Webring...
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 21:17 Comments || Top||

#16  Thx, Zenster - great laugh!

All from memory and distincly my pleasure.

Try and dig up, "Beat the Reaper" or the "Ralph Spoilsport Mantra."

-----------

"Ask the cop on the corner. Ask the cop on the rooftop. Ask that cop who's knockin' on your back door."

[knock knock knock]

"Mister policeman, what makes America great?"

[barbershop quartet]

"It's candied apples and ponies with dapples
that you can ride all day.
It's girls with pimples and cripples with dimples
that just won't go away.
It's spics and whops and niggers and kikes
with noses as long as your arm.
It's mics and chinks and gooks and geeks and honkies [bicycle horn]
that never even left the farm!"

So remember, Abraham Lincoln didn't die in vain.
He died in Washington DC!
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 21:18 Comments || Top||

#17  Here's the intro for Beat The Reaper (aiff fmt) - not much but fired off memories, heh.

I'd love to hear the whole Ralph Spoilsport routine, again. Awesome... did they ever make it to the Ventura Freeway, lol?
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 21:24 Comments || Top||

#18  Abraham Lincoln...
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 21:26 Comments || Top||

#19  The Plague at the end of BTR...
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 21:31 Comments || Top||

#20  I Hate Cops...
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 21:32 Comments || Top||

#21  Good on you for digging up all the links, .com. Gotta edumahcate deese Rantburgers.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 21:37 Comments || Top||

#22  I dunno... Are we on the hook for subsistence posts once we've got 'em addicted?
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 21:38 Comments || Top||

#23  Playing Arafat politics?
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/02/2005 21:47 Comments || Top||

#24  "Oh, we'll go marching, marching to Shibboleth!
With the eagle and the sword,
Praising Zion unto death,
Til we meet our last reward!"


'Zat ring a bell, .com? I'm amazed I can recall it, given how... [ahem!] altered my state of consciousness was the last time I heard it...
Posted by: Dave D. || 01/02/2005 21:51 Comments || Top||

#25  Lol, Dave! Used to be a mantra of mine that I had seen Fantasia 20 times, but never straight, lol!

The lyrics do ring a bell... I'll keep nosing around, heh.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 22:00 Comments || Top||

#26  Not sure, but I suspect it might have been on the "Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me the Pliers" album.

Never saw Fantasia, straight or otherwise. But I did see Night Of The Living Dead while tripping. It was very... realistic.
Posted by: Dave D. || 01/02/2005 22:04 Comments || Top||

#27  ROFL!!!
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 22:06 Comments || Top||

#28  When I think of how I conducted myself all those years ago, the idea that I actually survived just leaves me in stunned amazement.
Posted by: Dave D. || 01/02/2005 22:12 Comments || Top||

#29  Okay, I'm officially screwed, now - I found where to get old albums on CD. Gulp! This is gonna be very expensive, lol!
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 22:13 Comments || Top||

#30  Geez - talk about the same wavelength, lol! Another maxim (Drop the "x" and you've got the right guys!) of my gang of co-thugs was that if I got out of High School alive, it would mean the Universe was definitely out of balance and definitely playing favorites - cuz I sure was, lol! I, uh, had an unfriendly rep, heh! The Name That Shall Not Be Written Has No Idea How Lucky He Is That I Can't Reach Out And TOUCH Him, lol! From the crotch to the sternum in one single motion with my Tek.

Anyway, I'll prolly oder the phreakin' damned CD's, now, and just rip 'em. Here are the ones I know I'll order: 2 Places / Bozos / Everything / Dwarf / Electrician / Friends. Heh.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 22:22 Comments || Top||

#31  Done $81 with shipping, so not so bad, heh.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 22:29 Comments || Top||

#32  Seems to me the CDs would not be the major expense item involved in re-creating the overall experience...
Posted by: Dave D. || 01/02/2005 22:35 Comments || Top||

#33  The rush comes with it, for me - cheap date nowadays, lol!

And I found the Ralph Spoilsport routine!!!
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 22:38 Comments || Top||

#34  When I think of how I conducted myself all those years ago, the idea that I actually survived just leaves me in stunned amazement.

In other words;

"If I had known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself."

- George Burns -

From the crotch to the sternum in one single motion with my Tek.

As Issac Asimov said:

"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent."

I think you can do better than that, .com. A lot better. Kick back, pour a tall one and enjoy your Firesign instead.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 22:39 Comments || Top||

#35  Isaac's dead. There is zero recidivism. No Comebacks.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 22:45 Comments || Top||

#36  BTW, enjoy the Ralphie file - I had to steal the sucker.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 22:48 Comments || Top||

#37  And I found the Ralph Spoilsport routine!!!

Be sure to include a link to the second part of it:

"Hi friends, Ralph Spoilsport, owner and operator of the largest dealership west of Baalbek. As usual, we're overdosed again with all tastes and kilos. Let's just take a taste of some of this Yucatan Blue, scored for you from the sky blue waters of that fabulous Mexican bay. Wine-soaked and sugar cured, completely clean for your smoking enjoyment, our complete price to you, only two thousand FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS in easy monthly sentences of year to life, delivered by me, Ralph Icebag, by a brown-shoed square in the dead of night."

Ten silver dimes to the person who can identify the famous literary passage Ralph starts quoting as he begins to ramble on ("and she said to me ...") at the end.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 22:55 Comments || Top||

#38  Any Brother Dave Gardner fans?

Douglas Adams HHGG? He was the next to hit the high-water marks, IMHO.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 22:56 Comments || Top||

#39  Ulysses?!!!?! Lol!
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 22:57 Comments || Top||

#40  D@mn close, .com! Please take another shot. You've certainly earned it.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 22:59 Comments || Top||

#41  For first-timer Firesign novices, try these 2 short 'n sweet bits from Nick Danger, 3rd Eye...

Falloff.wav
Spread Eagle.aiff

If they don't interest you, well, you should shoot yourself, heh.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 23:03 Comments || Top||

#42  Sure, today's modern work-a-day world is a little like having bees live in your head, but - there they are...
Posted by: mojo || 01/02/2005 23:05 Comments || Top||

#43  I just got a flash of the "yes, and she drew me down, yes, and the sky was blue, yes, and the grass was green, yes..." blah blah blah from Ulysses - no more than that flash, lol! Never could finsh that goddamned book! Drove me mad!

I'm afraid that's as close as I'll get! Sorry...
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 23:06 Comments || Top||

#44  Is that FT, mojo? I don't see anything that matches...

Here's the sound file behind something I post here frequently - in response to rabid Engrish, usually, heh.

Shout.wav
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 23:09 Comments || Top||

#45  Bravo, .com. You were right. I thought "The Garden of the Alameda" was a separate work by Joyce (whom I also find about as pleasurable to read as giving birth to a porcupine, backwards). The passage is, indeed, from Ulysses:

O and the sea the sea crimson sometimes like fire and the glorious sunsets and the figtrees in the Alameda gardens yes and all the queer little street and pink and blue and yellow houses and the rosegardens and the jessamine and geraniums and cactuses and Gibraltar as a girl where I was a flower of the mountains yes when I put the rose in my hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he kissed me under the Moorish wall and I thought well as well him as another and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breast all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad yes I said yes I will Yes.

(James Joyce, Episode 18, in Ulysses, 1922)

I owe you one.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 23:23 Comments || Top||

#46  Naw - Lh and I laughed about Ulysses some time back - how friggin' unreadable it was. Now if I was still a dopehead, I could prolly mellow down to pre-coma and get through it. I made it about 3 chapters-worth and that was that. Can't remember how far Lh got - but same boat as to the mental anguish, lol! Joyce had to have been on a opium pipe or full of paregoric.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 23:32 Comments || Top||

#47  Yeah, .com - off "Don't Crush That Dwarf", I think. Or possibly "We're all Bozos on This Bus"...
Posted by: mojo || 01/02/2005 23:41 Comments || Top||

#48  mojo - Look at this page and see if you can locate it - there are quite a few from both LP's.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 23:45 Comments || Top||

#49  Lh and I laughed about Ulysses some time back - how friggin' unreadable it was.

Trust me, you're not alone. Just scrolling through an entire Episode (in the pathological sense) so I find that one passage at the end was physically painful. Henry James is the only thing that comes close. Even reading a phone book has more entertainment value.

While Joyce himself may have been, at least, novel. Acting like you understand his content one whit is the height of pretension. I recommend the episode of Ripping Yarns titled, "Thompkinson's Schooldays." It is a superb sendup of Joyce's "Portrait of the Artist." Joyce makes reading Sean O'Casey feel like romping through a Tom Clancy novel.

Again, congratulations on catching the Joyce reference. You are the second person I've ever met who even knew of it. Thank you for your contributions to an enjoyable evening.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 23:57 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
Jordan hopes for peaceful year in region
Posted by: Fred || 01/02/2005 12:07:45 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [255 views] Top|| File under:


Afghanistan/South Asia
Sami supports Musharraf's uniform
Maulana Samiul Haq, chief of his own Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam faction, announced on Saturday that he supports General Pervez Musharraf and was against protests at the president's position as army chief. Sami said this while speaking to a private television channel, APP reported. The JUI-Sami is part of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal, a six-party alliance of religious parties, that made the call for protests against Gen Musharraf. The announcement is likely to hasten the parties exit from the MMA.

Staff Report adds: Also on Saturday, the Central Council of the JUI-S expelled its MNA from Karachi, Qari Gul Rahman, and the minister of law in the NWFP government, Ayaz Khan, for violating party policies. The decision was taken at a meeting of the council chaired by Sami. Qari Rahman, who was elected to the National Assembly from the Keamari area of Karachi, and Ayaz Khan had defied party discipline by attending MMA meetings. Talking to a Daily Times correspondent in Karachi over the phone, Mufti Osman Yar Khan, deputy secretary of the party, said that Qari Rehman and Ayaz Khan had been warned several times not to attend MMA meetings. Mufti Osman accused the Jamaat-e-Islami and JUI-F of "misguiding" its party members, which was tantamount to horse-trading. "On the one hand both parties protest against the autocratic rule of President Musharraf, and on the other they behave in a dictatorial manner themselves," he said. Mufti Osman said that the JUI-S had "expelled" the JUI-F and JI from the MMA because they had been working against the agenda agreed by the component parties of the alliance upon its formation. To a question, he said that his party did not support the protests against President Musharraf's decision to continue holding his army chief post. "Our efforts are aimed at restoring the 1973 Constitution," he said. Qari Rahman was not available for comment
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 01/02/2005 4:27:22 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [267 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hmmmm.... I see three gang signs.
Posted by: Shipman || 01/02/2005 17:23 Comments || Top||


Islamabad, Delhi swap list of N-facilities
Pakistan and India exchanged on Saturday information on nuclear installations and facilities, through diplomatic channels, foreign office spokesman said.
"Here's our target list, where's yours?"
"Both the countries exchange information on the first working day every year, according to Article-II of Pakistan-India agreement on Prohibition of Attacks against each other's nuclear installations and facilities," Masood Khan said. The exchange, which includes stating the exact location of each other's nuclear installations, took place 'through diplomatic channels' in Islamabad and New Delhi simultaneously. The agreement on the prohibition of attacks on each other's nuclear sites was signed between the two nuclear rivals on Dec 31, 1988, and came into force on Jan 27, 1991. Under the terms of the agreement, "Each party shall refrain from undertaking, encouraging or participating in, directly or indirectly, any action aimed at causing the destruction of, or damage to, any nuclear installation or facility in the other country."
"Cross our hearts and hope you die!"
The term 'nuclear installation or facility' includes nuclear power and research reactors, fuel fabrication, uranium enrichment, isotopes separation and reprocessing facilities as well as any other installations with fresh or irradiated nuclear fuel and materials in any form and establishments storing significant quantities of radio-active materials. The agreement also states that the two sides shall inform the other on Jan 1 of each calendar year "of the latitude and longitude of its nuclear installations and facilities and whenever there is any change." The first such exchange between the two countries was held on Jan 1, 1992. Under the agreement both Pakistan and India are to refrain from attacking each other's nuclear facilities in the event of a war. Pakistan and India have also been holding expert level discussions on nuclear confidence-building measures and have narrowed down differences on agreement on pre-notification of flight testing of ballistic missiles.
Posted by: Steve White || 01/02/2005 12:58:52 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [253 views] Top|| File under:

#1  And the Pakiwakis, thinking they had pulled one over on the Indios, *laughed* about the site they had kept from their list.

Meanwhile, the Indios *snickered* about both of the sites they had kept from theirs.

And then the game continued...
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 1:13 Comments || Top||

#2  "A-6."
"Hit. Hey, you sank my cyclotron!"
Posted by: Seafarious || 01/02/2005 1:24 Comments || Top||

#3  LOL, Em! Though nothing in their collection covers more than two spaces in that game ...
Posted by: Steve White || 01/02/2005 1:51 Comments || Top||

#4  Well, I guess I think the 'sentiment' is well-intentioned.

I suppose it's cheaper than KH-11's...
Posted by: Tony (UK) || 01/02/2005 18:21 Comments || Top||


Africa: North
Moroccan body unravels graveyards of detainees
The Equity and Reconciliation Authority (ERA), the official body appointed by Moroccan King Mohammed V a year ago to expose human rights infringements in the country, on Wednesday succeeded in locating the corpses of citizens who lost their lives due to torture. Idris bin Zikri, the ERA Chairman, said: "The state had previously admitted the dead persons, but did not specify their graves." However, Moroccan and international legal bodies had spoken of the existence of mass graves where Leftists opposed to King Mohammed II's regime, were buried. The ERM, during the previous week had held two open hearing sessions for torture victims between 1965-99 which were broadcast by the official media. But although both sessions were applauded by the Press, the ERM work was yet criticised by some Moroccan legal organisations because it did not disclose the names of those who were steeped in human rights violations. In the first session, however, six of the victims testified detention, oppression and kidnapping operations which they had undergone, without mentioning any names of those who were responsible for the acts.
"It wouldn't be polite."
The ERA is expected to hear the testimonies of over 200 persons in coming sessions. King Mohammed the Fifth said he was concerned in closing the human rights violations file by means of an equitable non-legal arbitration. But legal societies in Morocco were sceptical about the efforts being exerted by the king in that respect, saying that his efforts were futile, since a new human rights violation file has been opened in 2003, especially following the Casablanca explosions.
In which the captured jihadis underwent full contact questioning.
The Amnesty International said that a secret jail existed in Tamarat, a town located in the suburbs of Rabat. Bin Zikri said "Some reports are exaggerated"  and that human rights violations in the past were less in degree than those which had taken place after the Casablanca explosions. Meanwhile, the public hearings will continue in the first week of this month in nine other Moroccan cities, after which the committee will present its report to the king, amid discontent among opposing bodies that the functions of the ERA were useless since oppressors were occupying positions of responsibility in the country. 
Outside of Iraq, is there any other Arab country even beginning to address human rights the way the Moroccans have?
Posted by: Steve White || 01/02/2005 12:42:52 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [252 views] Top|| File under:


Israel-Palestine
Turkish FM set for fence-mending trip to Israel
ANKARA - Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul travels to Israel this week for a long-awaited visit to thaw the chill between the two regional allies after Turkey's prime minister accused Israel of state terrorism against the Palestinians. Gul is scheduled to meet with President Moshe Katsav, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom on Tuesday and Palestinian leaders on Wednesday.
Try to repair the budding alliance?
Analysts have questioned whether the so-called strategic partnership between Turkey and Israel is on the skids after Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in May condemned as "state terror" a deadly Israeli raid on the Rafah refugee camp and Ankara temporarily recalled its ambassador from Tel Aviv.

Two months earlier Erdogan called the assassination of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin a "terrorist act," and in November 2003 turned down a request by Sharon for a brief visit to Ankara, citing his busy schedule.
Acting like a Muslim and not a European, Erdogan is.
Friendly ties with Turkey, a strictly secular non-Arab Muslim nation, are crucial for Israel to ease its isolation in the region. The two countries attracted the ire of Arab nations and Iran in 1996 when they struck a military cooperation accord, which was followed by a sharp increase in trade and cultural exchanges.

Its alliance with Israel gave Turkey leverage in 1998 to put pressure on Syria, its former arch-foe, and secure the expulsion of Kurdish rebel leader Abdullah Ocalan from his long-time safe haven in the Arab country.

Some analysts say Turkey could not have kept mum in the face of Israel's heavy-handed policies against the Palestinians at a time when it is working to improve its estranged ties with the Arab world. Others have described Erdogan's outbursts as lip service to supporters of his Justice and Development Party, an offshoot of a banned Islamist movement, many of whom are hostile to Israel.

Both Turkish and Israeli officials, however, say the tensions are now a matter of the past and agree the two sides should focus on how to use their partnership to advance the Middle East peace process. "The relations are back on track," said Emmanuel Nahshon, deputy chief of mission at the Israeli embassy here. "What was lacking were communication channels on issues on which friends may sometimes disagree. Those channels are now being established."

A senior Turkish diplomat said Turkey's criticism of Israel was "parallel" to the reactions of the international community and underlined that Ankara had also regularly condemned Palestinian violence but just not as loudly. "Those reactions (against Israel) are now matter of the past,"  he told AFP."What we want to do now is to make a real contribution to the peace process as true friends would do," he said. "Turkey is one of the few countries in which both Israel and the Palestinians trust."
Do the Paleos trust anyone?
The diplomat said the peace process would be high on Gul's agenda, with Turkey keen to help if assistance was demanded from it.

Nahshon said Israel was also eager to discuss regional developments, pointing at the recent improvement in Ankara's ties with Damascus and Tehran, both bitter opponents of the Jewish state. "We are not worried about your good relations with Syria and Iran. On the contrary, good ties in the region are an asset," he said. "If only Syria and Iran could be inspired by Turkish values of democracy and good neighborly relations."
If only.
The two parties are also expected to discuss boosting bilateral trade, which increased from 450 million dollars in 1996 to about 1.7 billion dollars (1.25 billion euros) in 2004. Turkey and Israel have also reached a water deal under which Israel is set to buy 50 million cubic meters (1.75 billion cubic feet) of water annually from Turkey over 20 years in a bid to solve its water shortage. The inauguration of the project is awaiting Israel's decision on how the water will be transported.
Why not run the pipeline through Syria, Turkey's soon to be southern-most new province?
Posted by: Steve White || 01/02/2005 12:31:14 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [263 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The relationship with Turkey is equivalet to a marriage of convenience. The main incentives for Israel are the military and political aspects.
I believe after what Abdullah Gul did to the US at their time of dire need in the north, we do not take our "allience" with them too seriously.

As they say here in the ME : "once a backstabber
always a backstabber".

Abdullah's name literally translates from arabic as "Allah's slave". The only thing now separating
turkey from the Sharia is the military establishment.
Turkey is a schizoid state torn between its poor moslem majority and the government need to economically integrate with western Europe.
As Eurostan steadily becomes Islamized,who knows
what will happen in turkey (maybe Murat ??)
Posted by: EoZ || 01/02/2005 1:18 Comments || Top||

#2  There can be no long term alliance between a Muslim country and a civilized country - not with Pakistan, not w/Saudi, not w/Turkey.
Posted by: Glereper Craviter7929 || 01/02/2005 1:42 Comments || Top||

#3  Glereper,
I agree with you
that's why we cannot trust any Paleostinian State
If they ever get one.
Posted by: EoZ || 01/02/2005 2:02 Comments || Top||

#4  There could be a long term alliance when Turkey was kemalist since a real Kemalist will see Islam as something bad for Turkey and in fact a tool of Arab domination. But Turkey is no longer Kemalist.
Posted by: JFM || 01/02/2005 11:01 Comments || Top||


Terror Networks & Islam
Al-Qaeda still seeking bioweapons
THE international pursuit of Osama Bin Laden has not stopped his Al-Qaeda network from seeking to build weapons of mass destruction, senior US officials said last week. Recent intelligence indicates that the group is turning its attention to chemical and biological weapons. Despite severe technical obstacles to the launch of terrorist biowarfare, Washington believes Bin Laden has become convinced that only a WMD attack would be sufficient punishment for the US-led invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. "The overwhelming bulk of the evidence we have is that their efforts are focused on biological and chemical weapons," said John Bolton, undersecretary of state for arms control.

Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/02/2005 12:05:48 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [260 views] Top|| File under:

#1  It's high time someone organized an unnatural meeting between Osama and his maker.
Posted by: EoZ || 01/02/2005 2:07 Comments || Top||

#2  Lot numbers on his video and audio tapes would go a long way to mapping his location.
Posted by: 3dc || 01/02/2005 13:38 Comments || Top||

#3  Yes they are....No they ain't....Yes they are....but it's too hard....No, it ain't....(to be continued)
Posted by: Captain America || 01/02/2005 14:31 Comments || Top||

#4  Didn't we conclude yesterday that the terrorists are unlikely to be able to create a workable biological weapon, and that chemical weapons aren't nearly as effective as the scaremongers' hype? In fact, that the terrorists' best weapons are booms and bullets?

If so, let them waste as much time as they please on seeking the unfindable....this generation's Philosopher's Stone. And may the search bring them much joy, as there shall -- in the end -- be no finding.
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/02/2005 15:07 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
Primary Threats to the Iraqi Reconstruction
The Republic of Iraq (Al Jumhuriyah al Iraqiyah) has, since its 1932 independence, been divided to 18 governorates or provinces (muhafazat, singular muhafazah):[1]

Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/02/2005 12:14:57 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [269 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Threats to the Iraqi Reconstruction.

In descending order: Islam, PanArabism, Western "intellectuals".
Posted by: gromgorru || 01/02/2005 3:43 Comments || Top||

#2  I would add criminality.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 01/02/2005 9:34 Comments || Top||

#3  And I'd come back and reverse the order.
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 01/02/2005 10:10 Comments || Top||

#4  All of you are correct. It seems that these 3 evil groups coordinate the hell that they cause and the innocent people who die as a result. The lazy and morally corrupt "intellectuals" in the "ivory tower" universities are probably the worst of all of them.
Posted by: leaddog2 || 01/02/2005 12:40 Comments || Top||


Israel-Palestine
Concern grows for Mahmoud Abbas' safety
Color me cynical, but Abbas has been the leading and most highly visible candidate to run the Paleo Splodeydope Syndicate and International Aid Sinkhole ever since Brother Arafat failed the Hatpin Test. Why is concern only growing now?
AS THE Palestinian bureaucracy gears up for next Sunday's presidential election, fears are growing for the safety of leading candidate Mahmoud Abbas, while Palestinian officials claim Israeli authorities have done little to ensure a smooth election process.
Fears. Whose fears? Nobody's in particular, I see. Just some nameless dread, swirling about Occupied Paleoland. Or perhaps author Annette Young won't reveal her sources...
In the first major elections since 1996, an estimated 1.5 million voters are expected to turn up at more than 1,000 polling booths across the West Bank and Gaza next Sunday, which has been declared a national holiday by Palestinian authorities.
Holidays are always celebrated with fireworks. And popcorn. And lawn chairs...I've got mine!
The election will be viewed as an important litmus test for the upcoming Palestinian legislative assembly elections, expected to be held before June.
Again, we have no idea whose "view" has an interest of this election.
But with just one week to go, there are growing concerns on both Palestinian and Israeli sides that deemed frontrunner and Fatah candidate Abbas is under risk of assassination from militants. A former prime minister, Abbas, who took over the PLO after Arafat's death on November 11, is favoured as a future peacemaker by Israel and the United States. "All of us in the Palestinian peace camp believe this to be a serious concern," Palestinian Cabinet minister Saeb Erekat told Scotland on Sunday. "But there is a limit to what we can do under Israeli occupation."
Aha! Erekat is concerned. Shoulda guessed. And now he goes off to the woodshed. (Gets out hickory axe handle...)

Saeb. Abbas is not being threatened by the Israeli occupation. Stop wringing your hands and crying to the Western press like a schoolgirl. If Mahmoud is being threatened by your dogs, slap a muzzle on 'em, take away their toys, and throw 'em back in the kennel. The Israelis would be delighted to house sit the loonies 'til sometime after the election. If they are too rabid and can't otherwise be controlled, shoot 'em.

But I bet *your* thugz are doing exactly what they've been told.
On Thursday, Abbas attended a rally in Jenin where he was greeted by a group of some 20 Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade gunmen who let off dozens of rounds of bullets. The gunfire was described as a "greeting" by the militants' leader Zakaria Zubeidi, who is also one of Israel's most wanted men. Although Zubeidi is reportedly suspicious of Abbas's moderate politics and his willingness to negotiate with Israel, he said he will support him.
And here's the real problem. If Abbas acts too much like a moderate, the loonies will kill him. If he throw in with the fundies, Israel just might have to 'let' the loonies kill him. They are pretending to try to have an election, but the hatred and seething is so intense it will burn *anyone* who stands anywhere near it.
Still, there is severe worry among Palestinian and Israeli security services that other hardline militants may not be so forgiving and will attempt to kill Abbas on the grounds that his candidacy is a threat to their existence. "We believe the major threat comes from Iranian-backed extremist groups who have made it clear that Abu Mazen [Mahmoud Abbas] is fair game," said Ranan Gissin, a spokesman for Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon.
That's an interesting diversion. Look at Iran, not at Hamas, or Islamic Jihad, or Al-Aksa (now Arafat) Martyrs Brigades. All the headbands and masks are just so much campaign materiel.
In the meantime, officials at the Palestinian Central Elections Committee (CEC) say despite promises from the Israeli government, both candidates and election workers have been unable to move freely. "The reality on the ground, particularly in Gaza, is very different," said Majdi Abu Zaid, the CEC regional co-ordinator in Gaza. "Elections depend heavily on movement, transfer of staff and material, not to mention candidates," he said. "In Gaza, it has been almost impossible to get through checkpoints, and in one case it took us a month to arrange a permit for one of our vans to travel from Gaza City to Rafah."
My sympathy meter almost quivered ther, but I recovered. Exactly what does that have to do with Mahmoud's personal safety? That's right. Exactly nothing. Just a extraneous graf to show us what meanies the Zionists are.
Erekat, who has been meeting regularly with officials from the Israeli prime minister's office, has urged the international community to place pressure on Israel "to ensure free and fair elections". "I have been and will continue to raise these issues with Dov Weisglass [Sharon's chief of staff]," he said. "But, again, there is only so much we Palestinians can do as we are under Israeli occupation, so it is up to the likes of British Prime Minister Tony Blair and President Bush to do their bit."
Knock it off with the "We can't control our trigger fingers cos we're Occupied," Saeb. It's getting old and stale.
Gissin disputed the Palestinians' claims, arguing that the Israelis had done everything possible to facilitate the elections. "We have provided maximum access for the candidates," he told Scotland on Sunday. "However, I will stress that we have the right to defend ourselves in view of the fact that the Palestinians are doing nothing about reining in terrorists." He added: "There are more extremist groups who want to scuttle this process. The only thing free about this election will be the freedom of armed men to dictate the outcome."
Sadly, I agree with his assessment.
Most of the seven candidates are running on independent tickets, with the exception of Abbas and Bassam al-Salhi, the secretary-general of the Palestinian Communist Party. However, Abbas is expected to win with a sizeable majority. The CEC says several hundred international observers will join 20,000 local election monitors to ensure the election occurs without hiccups. Other details still to be finalised this week include how to physically collect votes from some 125,000 eligible voters living in East Jerusalem. In 1996, Israeli authorities allowed Palestinian citizens in East Jerusalem to vote by postal ballot, and last week they announced that the same procedures will apply next Sunday. The issue of having polling booths in East Jerusalem is a thorny one for Israel. By allowing polling booths, it would be seen as de facto acknowledgement of Palestinian sovereignty of the city. But CEC officials say that they have yet to receive final confirmation of how the postal vote in East Jerusalem will be conducted.
"We'll get back to you on that."
Meanwhile, escalating violence in the Gaza Strip is also creating concern for those organising next week's election. A missile fired by an Israeli aircraft killed two Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip on Friday, the second day of an operation the army said was aimed at stopping mortar and rocket attacks on Jewish settlements.
Yup. The Zionists are just randomly firing missiles willy-nilly all over Gaza, especially when Abbas is campaigning.
N.B. Here is another article written by Annette Young.
Posted by: Seafarious || 01/02/2005 11:47:21 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [302 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Wow, Sea! Erakat will have to buy a dozen Saville Row suits to assuage his injured feelings after this! And a dozen pair of Italian loafers, just for good measure!

As for Abbas's safety, I gotta admit it's kept me up nights, too. I heard Holocaust Denier's Anonymous sent out a bulletin about it and ever since then, well, I've been Sleepless in Sin City. Glorious Golden Gloria had nothing to do with it, whatsoever, I swear, heh.
Posted by: .com || 01/02/2005 1:33 Comments || Top||

#2  Palestinian officials claim Israeli authorities have done little to ensure a smooth election process.

What on earth could Israel do that would not be held against them? This is the ultimate no-win situation. Any Israeli assistance would be called meddling and a complete withdrawal during the election will be labeled a lack of support for Palestinian democracy.

The election will be viewed as an important litmus test for the upcoming Palestinian legislative assembly elections

D@mn right it will be. From my own point of view, if over half the seated assembly favors terrorism, it means that a majority of Palestinians support terror attacks. Any culture that extolls terrorism must be denied all vestiges of credibility or respectability.

... there are growing concerns on both Palestinian and Israeli sides that deemed frontrunner and Fatah candidate Abbas is under risk of assassination from militants.

Palestine's own factionalism poses a threat to even the most popular candidate. Though the lessons here are manifold, most of them will undoubtedly elude the Palestinians. Abbas is not a true moderate. He, too, still uses the classic weasle-words and argot to rationalize terrorism. However wisely he realizes that it will never work, he's still pandering to the more psychotic elements within the Palestinian culture.

The Israelis are not fooled one bit by this thin disguise. Evermore ironic, the hatred coming from his own side is so blind that even the most remote concession to the Israelis, claiming terrorism is a blind alley, is enough to earn Abbas a death warrant.

Abbas attended a rally in Jenin where he was greeted by a group of some 20 Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade gunmen who let off dozens of rounds of bullets.

REAL MESSAGE: One of these bullets could just as easily have hit you.

"The only thing free about this election will be the freedom of armed men to dictate the outcome."

Of any sentence in the entire article, this is the keystone. Palestine and its embrace of terrorist violence has reached a logical extension. By adopting a "guns only" mentality, it is "guns only" that will determine this election. A "guns only" election may as well be a shotgun wedding for all concerned. More than likely, guns alone will play the final determining role in this sordid little vignette.

I still maintain that, similar to the unfortunately necessary biological (AIDS) meltdown in Africa and almost unavoidable economic (civil war) meltdown in China, the Palestinian people's philosophical meltdown is an equally vital component for their rebirth as a functional culture.

What they have now is merely the penultimate of death cults.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 2:23 Comments || Top||

#3  The terror monster created by the Arafish will now haunt the stupid paleo's for a long, long time.
Abbas, is indeed walking a tight rope. He cant be too cooperative with Israel for fear of being tarred and feathered by the Hamas, and he cant be too venomously anti-israely because that losses him any international support.
The only way for him to survive is to take the old trustworthy Mooslimb/Paleo methods of whining and crying and throwing the blame at others.

Until the West does not completely severe the ties between the Paleo's and the terror supporting regimes in Iran, Syria and the damn Saudi's there is going to be no peace in the region and the fucker's are going to continue suffering because of their "Dear leaders"'s duplicity, lying and impotence.
P.S. Saeb Erakat is a pathological hypocrite.
Posted by: EoZ || 01/02/2005 2:30 Comments || Top||

#4  Abbas' death would be a HEAVY blow to chances for Peace.
Posted by: gromgorru || 01/02/2005 3:53 Comments || Top||

#5  Typical isn't it - blaming the Isrealis for any perceived problems with the 'election process' (see, I can use scare quotes too).

I disagree gromgorru - once Abbas has been killed (by his own side, and I imagine the circumstances will be very similar to those that Zenster has mentioned), they'll wheel up another one to replace him. The Israelis can sit back and wait until a real moderate is 'elected'.
Posted by: Tony (UK) || 01/02/2005 5:22 Comments || Top||

#6 
The Israelis can sit back and wait until a real moderate is 'elected'.
Nice thought, Tony (UK), but I doubt the paleos have one.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 01/02/2005 11:18 Comments || Top||

#7  This is why the Wall MUST BE COMPLETED as rapidly as possible. Build it HIGH, DEEP and STRONG. Cut off ALL CONTACT with Palestine PERMANENTLY. Let that insane society kill itself off if they choose to do so! If there are any survivors, they will have to cut out their own Islamist cancer. Then SOMEDAY, perhaps in 25 to 50 years, the barbarian Palestinians can be very cautiously allowed to rejoin the civilized world.
Posted by: leaddog2 || 01/02/2005 13:26 Comments || Top||

#8  once Abbas has been killed (by his own side, and I imagine the circumstances will be very similar to those that Zenster has mentioned), they'll wheel up another one to replace him. The Israelis can sit back and wait until a real moderate is 'elected'.

Bingo, Tony. Although I doubt that Israel will play quite the passive role you mention. Between the terrorist thugs and Israel's IDF, there is going to be a revolving door rapid succession of Palestinian leaders in the near future.

Only after a complete meltdown of Palestinian self-government will there be any chance for true progress. Right now, what we are witnessing is the gruesome spectacle of a cannibalistic society sorting through all the available warm bodies for its next rhetorical feast.

Palestine's incurable bloodlust requires that they first reach the logical conclusion of their hatred. Self-decimation is that process and they richly deserve it. The only substantial benefit it represents to the outside world is a vivid object lesson in Islamist politics and what awaits any other countries that contain substantial Muslim minorities.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/02/2005 16:42 Comments || Top||

#9  410
Posted by: Shipman || 01/02/2005 17:43 Comments || Top||



Who's in the News
68[untagged]

Bookmark
E-Mail Me

The Classics
The O Club
Rantburg Store
The Bloids
The Never-ending Story
Thugburg
Gulf War I
The Way We Were
Bio

Merry-Go-Blog
Hair Through the Ages










On Sale now!


A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.

Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.

Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has dominated Mexico for six years.
Click here for more information

Meet the Mods
In no particular order...
Steve White
Seafarious
Pappy
lotp
Scooter McGruder
john frum
tu3031
badanov
sherry
ryuge
GolfBravoUSMC
Bright Pebbles
trailing wife
Gloria
Fred
Besoeker
Glenmore
Frank G
3dc
Skidmark
Alaska Paul

Two weeks of WOT
Sun 2005-01-02
  Another most wanted found among Riyadh boomer scraps
Sat 2005-01-01
  Algerian deported from San Diego
Fri 2004-12-31
  NKors threaten to cut off contact with Japan
Thu 2004-12-30
  Ugandan officials meet rebel commanders near border with Sudan
Wed 2004-12-29
  43 Iraqis killed in renewed violence
Tue 2004-12-28
  Syria calls on US to produce evidence of involvement in Iraq
Mon 2004-12-27
  Car bomb kills 9, al-Hakim escapes injury
Sun 2004-12-26
  8.5 earthquake rocks Aceh, tsunamis swamp Sri Lanka
Sat 2004-12-25
  Herald Angels Sing
Fri 2004-12-24
  Heavy fighting in Fallujah
Thu 2004-12-23
  Palestinians head to polls in landmark local elections
Wed 2004-12-22
  Pak army purge under way?
Tue 2004-12-21
  Allawi Warns Iraqis of Civil War
Mon 2004-12-20
  At Least 67 killed in Iraq bombings - Shiites Targeted
Sun 2004-12-19
  Fazlur Rehman Khalil sprung

Better than the average link...



Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
3.235.45.196
Paypal:
WoT Operations (15)    Non-WoT (28)    Opinion (2)    (0)    (0)