Article

2007-07-03 Britain

'Islamist' is the word for these terrorists

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Posted by lotp 2007-07-03 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11135 views ] Top
File under: al-Qaeda in Britain

#1 But the days of refusing to confront Islamist ideology are drawing to an end. There is a new determination in government to spell out hard truths.

That would be the first step to start winning.

Posted by twobyfour 2007-07-03 01:39|| 2007-07-03 01:39|| Front Page Top

#2 Islamic organizations in the West claim to be oriented on civil rights. BS. They are Islamists. Their true agenda won't be declared until - and if - they have the numbers to steamroller their totalitarian scheme. In France, within a generation the election of someone like Sarkozy will be impossible. Islamists will have a veto over French foreign and domestic policies, even as Western ideas are cleansed out of their homelands. Ergo: do whatever we have to do to ensure that they don't have the numbers.

Posted by McZoid 2007-07-03 02:57|| 2007-07-03 02:57|| Front Page Top

#3 These are repudiated by decent Muslims everywhere.

Stark testimony to the sparse population of "decent Muslims".

They teach their children to recite the Koran, just as I learnt to recite the Latin mass as an altar boy.

Except one preaches death and destruction and the other doesn't. Slight difference there, eh?

'Islamist' is the word for these terrorists

Bullshit. They are not "Islamists", they are Muslims following the correctly interpreted dictates of their beloved Koran. Robert Spencer is absolutely correct in pointing out how even a most polite translation of the Koran still yields up a terrorist handbook. Islam is a violent, intolerant political ideology with no redeeming features. I invite anyone to prove otherwise.

"Islamists" are dutiful Muslims performing the recommended acts of their supposedly holy book. Those Muslims who protest such terrorist atrocities are blasphemers or apostates that Islam would just as soon put to death. We need to stop turning such a blind eye to these simple and basic facts.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-07-03 04:13|| 2007-07-03 04:13|| Front Page Top

#4 Muslims who protest such terrorist atrocities are blasphemers or apostates

Muslims who protest such terrorist atrocities are brave people that almost always end up being called blasphemers or apostates...

I know that it is a few words longer than your rendering, but probably more accurate.

Posted by twobyfour 2007-07-03 05:09|| 2007-07-03 05:09|| Front Page Top

#5 Agreed, they are brave people. I'll never deny that, but they are not "true" Muslims. The Koran is very plain about who should be killed or subjugated and its approval of using terrorism to do so.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-07-03 05:28|| 2007-07-03 05:28|| Front Page Top

#6 Winston Churchill put it better than I can;

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property-either as a child, a wife, or a concubine-must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proseltyzing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science-the science against which it had vainly struggled-the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

Posted by Bunyip 2007-07-03 05:41|| 2007-07-03 05:41|| Front Page Top

#7 Come-on 2x4, Muslim who doesn't believe in Jihad is like catholic who doesn't believe in communion.

Posted by gromgoru 2007-07-03 05:41|| 2007-07-03 05:41|| Front Page Top

#8 Maybe there'll be a new aphorism: "Is the Pope Catholic? Do Muslims believe in Jihad?"
"But the days of refusing to confront Islamist ideology are drawing to an end." -- Nope, this is wishful thinking & is not happening. The moral leadership from the top is just not there. The "whole democratic world" no longer believes in itself. However, this article is a baby step in the right direction.

Posted by Pearl Greaper5013 2007-07-03 09:22|| 2007-07-03 09:22|| Front Page Top

#9 I think the jury's out on whether 2x4 or Zen is right on this.

Ultimately, what is and is not a true Muslim is for Muslims to decide. We know what the Wahabists and Salafists claim. We also should acknowledge the fledgling start at reformation of Islamic teachings by some respected imams who reject those claims.

Remains to be seen how that will play out IMO.

Posted by lotp 2007-07-03 09:38|| 2007-07-03 09:38|| Front Page Top

#10 Who's banging Fatah al-Islam in Lebanon?

Posted by Mike N. 2007-07-03 09:53|| 2007-07-03 09:53|| Front Page Top

#11 Muslim who doesn't believe in Jihad is like catholic who doesn't believe in communion.

Catholocism is but one sect of Christianity. Who's to say that Islam can't find ways to water itself down, like Lutherans?

Posted by Mike N. 2007-07-03 09:57|| 2007-07-03 09:57|| Front Page Top

#12 Who's to say that Islam can't find ways to water itself down, like Lutherans?

That is an inappropriate comparison. Plums to smelly durians. By their fruit you recognize them...

Who's to say that Islam can't find ways to water itself down, like Nazism?

As you see, that IS the problem in a nutshell.

Posted by twobyfour 2007-07-03 11:44|| 2007-07-03 11:44|| Front Page Top

#13 Who's to say that Islam can't find ways to water itself down, like Nazism?

Is this to say that multiple sects of Islam haven't already?

Posted by Mike N. 2007-07-03 11:46|| 2007-07-03 11:46|| Front Page Top

#14 lotp, we are both right. We are essentially saying the same thing, but from a slightly different angle.

As gr0mgoru notes: "Muslim who doesn't believe in Jihad is like catholic who doesn't believe in communion."

He is not saying that they don't exist. They just find themselves in the state expressed above for a short time.

Posted by twobyfour 2007-07-03 11:51|| 2007-07-03 11:51|| Front Page Top

#15 #6
Thanks Bunyip,

I had read this quote before. I think Churchill uttered it very early in his career around 1908. Never more true. Amazing how he could lay things out plainly. There has been no peer since. Only Thatcher approached his clarity of thought. If only he were here today to guide his British compatriots.

Posted by Woozle Elmeter2970 2007-07-03 11:59|| 2007-07-03 11:59|| Front Page Top

#16

Catholocism is but one sect of Christianity.
Obviously, you must be killed.

Who's to say that Islam can't find ways to water itself down, like Lutherans?
One noted french pundit on islam noted that islam is an involutive religion, where the ideal is not in some kind of soteriology like for the christian religion, with the apothesis being in the future, but at the start. That is, perfection is in the beginning, in mo', who is the perfect human being who must be imitated as closely as possible, and in his original companions.
So, whenever islam try to evolve, there always will be a reverse pulse to go back to that initial perfection, embodied by the k'ora'n and by old mo'. And that perfection is one of a looter and conqueror who set rules for dealing with the "outside world".

I think the jury's out on whether 2x4 or Zen is right on this.
Reading people far more intelligent than me led me to believe our current "muslim problem" is both circumstancial (muslim theological and ideological reawakening, transnational orgs and revolutionary gvt that form an "islamintern" to structure that, strenghts due to population surplus exported to kufr lands, oil money to buy influence, pusillanimity - real or perceived - of the opponents, self-inflicted cultural and ideological weakness of the West and Europe in particular, cognitive dissonance between the muslim self-perception and the reality of thes tate of muslimland & sense of being under siege from "modernity" brought by globalization)... and inherent to the "civilizational DNA" of the muslim identity.
Thus, if/when our "muslim trouble" ends successfully for us kufrs, we'll have peace, as it will go to sleep, like it did under colonization, with the ins allah fatalism,... only to resurge again and again, whenever the circumstances are right (think the original late 19th century mahdi). Until islma is reformed top to bottom, the trouble being it was originally conceived, perhaps by other people than old mo' (jewish or judeo-nazarean roots of islam, old mo' being a semi-mythical or mythical messiah figure invented later), as a motivator for conquest and a glue for conquered empires, at heart a vehicle for arab and arabized imperialism.

Posted by anonymous5089 2007-07-03 12:00|| 2007-07-03 12:00|| Front Page Top

#17 If you wish, they're islamists, right, but islamists are made from muslims who got back to the "source".

Posted by anonymous5089 2007-07-03 12:03|| 2007-07-03 12:03|| Front Page Top

#18 Mike, Piazzi nothwithstanding, hassassin were sufi.

The numerous sects beside sunni, shia, sufi, are always small, and not one relegated jihad into a dustbin.

Lahore Ahmadiyya are an exception in that their jihad is strictly non-violent, but they are not really muslims.

Posted by twobyfour 2007-07-03 12:06|| 2007-07-03 12:06|| Front Page Top

#19 Well, then fuckit, lets kill'em.

Posted by Mike N. 2007-07-03 12:15|| 2007-07-03 12:15|| Front Page Top

#20 Good lord -- look at our a5089 write! I remember when he clearly sat with a French-English dictionary propped up in front of his monitor and a grammar next to it, painstakingly translating his thoughts. And now look at his post #16: I've got a pretty good vocabulary (in English, anyway), and I had to look up words and concepts completely new to me, and reread the post twice to make sure I got everything out of it. anonymous5089, I am highly, highly impressed!! :-D

Posted by trailing wife 2007-07-03 12:17|| 2007-07-03 12:17|| Front Page Top

#21 5089, that's a good post about the problems restarting again. The reason that mussellmen have a chance to again be a problem is oil money. The west is funding both sides of this current war.

Posted by Mike N. 2007-07-03 12:25|| 2007-07-03 12:25|| Front Page Top

#22 Mike, today it's oil, tomorrow it will be dillitium. The problem is Islam itself, not the means. Contained tomorrow, the ambers would grow into fire again the day after tomorrow.

Find a way to kill not the people but the ideology, Islam, and the problem will be solved.

Posted by twobyfour 2007-07-03 12:54|| 2007-07-03 12:54|| Front Page Top

#23 Tubafor, I agree. I just also think that the ultimate decision has to made by the followers of the prophet. I can see Islam shrinking and I can see what's left of Islam being much less militaristic, I just can't see it going away completely.

Posted by Mike N. 2007-07-03 13:03|| 2007-07-03 13:03|| Front Page Top

#24 Gordon Brown has already failed the first test of leadership during a crisis: speaking honestly and forthrightly about the nature of the problem.

Any poster to this site could serve the English better.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=26110_Gordon_Brown-_Dont_Say_Terrorists_Are_Muslims&only

Posted by Grumenk Philalzabod0723 2007-07-03 19:56|| 2007-07-03 19:56|| Front Page Top

#25 On July 4, 1776, ole England started to loose it's best posession. On July 3rd, 2007, ole England started to loose it's mind.
Better silence your new idiot, Brown and save face now. What the hell ius Brown's vision of the future ? Animal Farm ?

Posted by wxjames 2007-07-03 22:37|| 2007-07-03 22:37|| Front Page Top

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