Article

2014-01-07 Government

Colorado's Pot Shops Say They'll Be Sold Out Any Day Now

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Fred 2014-01-07 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11127 views ] Top

#1 I've got a question for Dr. Steve. Aren't all these heavy pot smokers setting themselves up for the same nasty diseases as tobacco users?

Posted by PBMcL 2014-01-07 01:01|| 2014-01-07 01:01|| Front Page Top

#2 From the Pro-Cannabis Lobby - NORML Cannabis Smoke and Cancer: Assessing the Risk

From the National Institute on Drug Abuse

DrugFacts: Marijuana

Excerpt:

Marijuana use can have a variety of adverse, short- and long-term effects, especially on cardiopulmonary and mental health.

Marijuana raises heart rate by 20-100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug. This may be due to increased heart rate as well as the effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in older individuals or in those with cardiac vulnerabilities.

Posted by Black Charlie 2014-01-07 01:22|| 2014-01-07 01:22|| Front Page Top

#3 The only people I know whom kept using marijuana into adulthood, but then stopped, did so because they had also experimented or became addicted to harder drugs + ultimately suffered from serious-to-catastrophic health damage.

IMO "legal recreational use" is just another, indirect or roundabaout way of arguing that any + any drug use should be legalized.

Not unlike those whom are now calling for the legal right to marry one or more animals, or engage in pedophilia, polygamy, .......@etc. in follow-up to legal LGBT marriage.

I hope these people are aware that Socialists + Progressives only support these issues to attain political power = Govt control, + that once their -ism becomes permanently entrenched, these very same alternative rights will be taken away from them in the name of GOOD OLE" FASHIONED BUDGET-COST(S) ECONOMY.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2014-01-07 02:10|| 2014-01-07 02:10|| Front Page Top

#4 The induction of particulate matter into the lungs generally is not considered an optimal environment for the main organ of transferring oxygen to the blood in the body.

Commander Shepard: What's your opinion of this? The drugs, I mean.
Legion: These substances enhance short-term performance at the expense of long-term platform survivability. It is fundamentally similar to "over-clocking" geth hardware. We do so whenever necessary. However, should our platform be damaged by overclocking, we can be repaired. Why an organic would choose this is puzzling.

Posted by Procopius2k 2014-01-07 07:47|| 2014-01-07 07:47|| Front Page Top

#5 1. Prohibition never works. Not in the 20's, not in jail and not even in Soviet Russia. Repeat after me: it never has and never will work.

2. The war on drugs has cost a fortune, been a never ending excuse for taking away Constitutional rights, packed the jails and accomplished nothing.

3. Legal pot will cause problems, just like legal alcohol, legal vehicles and legal guns cause problems.

4. Countries that have legalized drugs (e.g. Portugal) have seen drug related problems go way, way down.

5. If you are concerned about the users, consider whether it isn't more compassionate to treat drug problems medically rather than criminally.

I understand that some people just can't see their way through to letting adults do what they want. Those people come from both the left and right, and they are each and every one of them dead wrong.

Posted by Iblis 2014-01-07 07:56|| 2014-01-07 07:56|| Front Page Top

#6 Number of people killed on America's highways and roads, not counting killed by other means, while 'under the influence' since the repeal of Prohibition is far greater than the number killed in America's wars since. There is no perfect. There are only trade offs.

Posted by Procopius2k 2014-01-07 08:13|| 2014-01-07 08:13|| Front Page Top

#7 5. If you are concerned about the users, consider whether it isn't more compassionate to treat drug problems medically rather than criminally.

'Treating drug problems medically'....with more drugs provided by big Pharma and Gov't? Yes, that's quite obviously the correct approach.

Posted by Besoeker 2014-01-07 08:17|| 2014-01-07 08:17|| Front Page Top

#8 My major concern is that unlike typical recreational alcohol use, marijuana shows a much more serious tendency to increase psychological and developmental deficiencies. Legalize it? Ok, but let's not act as if there will not be generational costs, especially developmental ones, that result in a huge demotivated chronic psychological mess in a decade, unless regulation and a ton of research is done concerning all the physical and psychoactive substances present in marijuana, at least to the level of research that has been done for ethanol. Ethanol is a single substance and well known - easy to determine intoxication levels, constant in strength by volume, and well know metabolism. With marijuana, there is no standardization of strength nor intoxication, when inhaled it also brings other possible harmful substance with it, etc. for marijuana there is a large amount of long term risk out there much of which is still unknown, including the "unknown unknowns". Research is needed, and a lot of it. Also compare underage drinking, and imagine the increase in underage drug use with the easier and wider availability of pot now - and remember these are developing minds, that pot has a huge impact on, retarding psychological maturation. I have personally seen pot use demolish kids. So yes legalize it, but don't be stupid and expect all sunshine, rainbows and unicorn farts. There will be negative and serious consequences.

Be careful what you ask for, you may get it but not what you thought you were getting.

Posted by OldSpook 2014-01-07 10:06|| 2014-01-07 10:06|| Front Page Top

#9 "So yes legalize it, but don't be stupid and expect all sunshine, rainbows and unicorn farts."

This is my 2584th comment. You all know I'm as hard right as it gets. This is not about rainbows and unicorns. OS is correct - legalization is no panacea. We are trading one set of problems for another. My belief is that it's a good trade.

And a special note to P2K - tens of thousand of auto deaths each year is a terrible price to pay -- but how many want prohibition back? Trade offs indeed.

Posted by Iblis 2014-01-07 10:28|| 2014-01-07 10:28|| Front Page Top

#10 If you want to stop the use of wacky tobacky just have Phillip Morris start to sell it; the left hate that company.

Posted by Airandee 2014-01-07 10:45|| 2014-01-07 10:45|| Front Page Top

#11 I remember an article on long term effects of Marijuana. The main take away was that THC was ten (10) times as likely to cause cancer as the same amount as nicotine. fortunately most people do not use as much marijuana as tobacco. Smoking Marijuana and tobacco had a greater effect than additive effect.

Given the costs to society of smoking tobacco, I do not see the logic in legalizing something that is 10x as dangerous.

Al

Posted by Frozen Al 2014-01-07 11:00|| 2014-01-07 11:00|| Front Page Top

#12 This risk may be greater in older individuals or in those with cardiac vulnerabilities.

Shucks. I guess I better not.

But make no mistake, legal marijuana will find its way into the lungs of children. Oh, and think of all those Air Force cadets. Yeahhhhhh.

Lemme ask you this: If you work in the HR department of an airline company, are you gonna think twice about hiring pilots who grew up in Colorado? How about a hospital hiring anesthesiologists?

Research is needed, and a lot of it.

Yeah. I'm afraid the research is currently under way in Colorado.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2014-01-07 11:50|| 2014-01-07 11:50|| Front Page Top

#13 Some forms of exercise cause harm.
Some people even get a high from exercise!
We should ban that too while we're banning things.

The only drugs I'd regulate heavily are Antibiotics as their is a societal ham from misuse (rather than a persona harm).

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2014-01-07 12:17|| 2014-01-07 12:17|| Front Page Top

#14 Because I was asked by PBMcL in #1:

I find it strange that we are making pot legal while we try to stamp out tobacco.

I'm a pulmonary doc and I hate tobacco (I really do), but I don't agree with what's being done to make it illegal to use. Our laws tend to be heavy-handed, imprecise, and hypocritical. Further our laws tend to glorify the "forbidden fruit". Despite all the laws to date, the smoking rate in our society remains hovering around 25% of the population. Further restriction isn't going to make tobacco go away. Here's why:

Smoking tobacco is done for one reason only: it's by far the best, most efficient way to deliver nicotine to the brain. If there were a better way we'd do it.

Likewise, smoking weed is done for one reason: it's the best, most efficient way to deliver THC to the brain. If there were a better way we'd do it.

It's all about delivering to our brains chemicals that our brains (those of us who are susceptible) really, really like. If you're a smoker it's because you really like what nicotine does for you. Ditto for weed and THC. The onset of action, the binding to their receptors, the length of time they stay bound, and the effects of that binding are all such that we want to get those into us quickly, and smoking does that.

Keeping weed illegal hasn't stopped people from smoking it to dose themselves with THC. Making tobacco illegal won't stop people from dosing themselves with nicotine.

So let's cut the pretense.

The harmful effects of tobacco, from the toxic materials and residues that result from inhaling burned organic plant matter, are well described. Guess what -- the same harmful effects are seen from inhaling burned weed. Smoke is smoke, and while researcher might quibble and shade over which is worse, both are bad for your lungs. Both cause emphysema, lung cancer and other cancers. I have pictures.

The pharmacology of nicotine and THC are such that the 'boom' and 'blast' are best delivered via inhalation.

Likewise, a heroin addict will tell you that while he/she COULD skin-pop or snort, the way they like it best is injected. Why? Because the pharmacology of heroin is such that the 'boom' and 'blast' are best delivered by intravenous push into the blood.

And the pharmacology of alcohol explains why we drink it rather than snort it: the timing of the 'buzz' of alcohol means that we can deliver it orally; there's no advantage to getting it into us more quickly.

So yes, heavy marijuana smoking is associated with the same spectrum of lung disease as is smoking tobacco.

But good luck trying to get either of them out of our society.

Posted by Steve White 2014-01-07 12:32|| 2014-01-07 12:32|| Front Page Top

#15 But growing up in Colorado does not make one a Coors drinker. In fact, I LMAO last at Coors Field with the Bud Light courtesy golf carts.

Crap in the lungs is as old as humanity, whether chiseling stone, mining salt, or campfire smoke. Tobacco smoke is indeed bad and for the sake of existence, unnecessary. But it is society, like MUJ is part of society.

To be flat honest, I'm not worried about these people who wait in line to legally purchase a product, they show responsibility.

Posted by swksvolFF 2014-01-07 13:01|| 2014-01-07 13:01|| Front Page Top

#16 Airandee, I heard that PM had a package for such a thing designed...in the 90's.

And y'all don't forget that there is the oral way via brownies or whatnots, not everyone likes to smoke. The responsible user, especially with kids, will have it put away as if it were booze, detergent, or a firearm. I believe that is what happened with the 2 year old who at least made our localized news. My guess is the pee nass ate a granola in front of the kid and threw it into the unlocked drawer, or worse left it on the table.

Posted by swksvolFF 2014-01-07 13:07|| 2014-01-07 13:07|| Front Page Top

#17 Colorado's Pot Shops Say They'll Be Sold Out Any Day Now

Don't worry, it'll be Marlboro to the rezque - until then, 420 Baaaby ...

Posted by Blossom tse Tung8825 2014-01-07 14:05|| 2014-01-07 14:05|| Front Page Top

#18 call me a libertarian but I really do not care what people smoke or do as long as my rights are not violated and I am not handed the bill for the irresponsible behaviors of others. However this coutry fails to require responsibility with rights and freedoms. Which is why you and I have to pay for others abortions, contraceptives, illegimate children, drunkenness and insobriety, miss behavior, poor decisions, laziness....

Posted by airandee 2014-01-07 15:39|| 2014-01-07 15:39|| Front Page Top

#19 Remind me not to drive to Colorado and anytime soon, say two months.
Bu then the pot heads should be used to the higher THC, and it should be fairly safe, just look carefully for Potheads at red lights.

(They'll be the ones going through whether or not it's red)

I wonder what the state will do, perhaps DUI will fit?

Posted by Redneck Jim 2014-01-07 16:32|| 2014-01-07 16:32|| Front Page Top

#20 Doc. W. nails it. We like pushing the button in the easiest way possible, not likely to change.

Posted by Shipman 2014-01-07 16:35|| 2014-01-07 16:35|| Front Page Top

#21 20% tax; what budget does that feed?

Other than the local pizza joint.

Posted by swksvolFF 2014-01-07 18:49|| 2014-01-07 18:49|| Front Page Top

#22 With regards to sweet Mary Jane, first and foremost does America, especially it's youths, really need another intoxicating substance to run away from our "harsh" reality? No.
1.)Humans have a 5000+ year cultural history of alcohol use and look at the the problems it still presents. MJ is a whole 'nother deal. The culture around use is non-restricitive because you can function high much easier in regular society on a daily basis undetected. A regular user can easily go through the work day high and most people do not notice it. Because, you see, the drug is "harmless".
2.) There will always be an illegal market for legalized pot, OUR KIDS! This will find it's way into the hands of kids easily, much easier than alcohol. A joint is cheaper, more concealable, less detectable more addictive (for a kid) and much preferable to a 40. Or how 'bout a cookie or brownie for the entreprenurial, great way to lure the little ones.
3.) Impairment laws have not been concretely established. What is impairment and when will the first leagl challenge of a mandatory drug test for employment surface? How about blood tests as a constitutional violation?
4.) Drugs hurt people, there is no "responsible user" of any drug because their are no cultural or societal mores for appropriate use, unlike alcohol. Maybe there are the "lucky few" small percentage burners who like to pretend it's still college on Fri and Sat. But for those "1%ers", many people somewhere along the food chain got hurt, some real bad. Legalization will not stop this because the users behaviour is the problem, not the drug. That is why it was wisely made illegal in the first place.

Posted by jefe101 2014-01-07 20:22|| 2014-01-07 20:22|| Front Page Top

#23 I work in the oilfield, offshore. If this becomes legal, then I want the death penalty for anyone caught working under the influence while in ANY position that involves driving, heavy machinery, safety critical awareness, well monitoring, etc.

No ifs, buts, or he was only...there's an accident, you test positive, then you get dragged to the rig floor and beat to death with sledgehammers. There's enough danger as it is out there, we don't need this as well.

Posted by Silentbrick 2014-01-07 21:56|| 2014-01-07 21:56|| Front Page Top

#24 Doc Steve, I'm not arguing for prohibition, but I am warning that MJ use is not without cost, and there will be long term cognitive/emotionall developmental delays and other related issues that will be harmful (perhaps severely) to society as a whole, as well as to the individual. .Marijuana usage is conclusively and casually linked to a reduction in ability to consolidate new memories for about 24 hours after you smoke; which for heavy or daily marijuana smokers means all the time. Essentially, marijuana can decrease your ability to learn. Also there are other delays in development related to the development of mature self motivation. Basically Imarijuana does cause decreased academic, professional and general life performance. It does lessen the ability to learn, and when younger teens smoke marijuana heavily, they do not effectively develop emotionally and do not learn effective and appropriate ways to deal with emotional and social challenges that are necessary to become a fully functional adult. The cost for society of a "lost generation" will be enormous, in terms of opportunity cost, loss of productivity, and eventually psychological/medical care and/or treatment.

I don't want to be stuck with the cost of someone else's stupidity, at least when we should have a chance Now to impose restrictions until such costs are identified and prevented or mitigated to some degree. Let's legalize but do it wisely, instead of "passing it to find out what's in it"

Posted by OldSpook 2014-01-07 22:53|| 2014-01-07 22:53|| Front Page Top

#25 Doc (and others), these issues are not new. Try this for a start as a journal resource during the Clinton years: Am Fam Physician. 1999 Dec 1;60(9):2583-2588.

Posted by OldSpook 2014-01-07 23:05|| 2014-01-07 23:05|| Front Page Top

#26 But...

MJ keeps the population quiet and peaceful... and voting democrat. They won't recognize what the government is taking away from them. (Most don't recognize it now). And will just keep voting democrat (because the evil Republicans will take their MJ away!)

Some explained once that the long term effect of MJ to basically retard maturity of the brain - it just stop developing and doesn't mature like it should.

Posted by CrazyFool 2014-01-07 23:17|| 2014-01-07 23:17|| Front Page Top

23:17 CrazyFool
23:05 OldSpook
22:53 OldSpook
21:57 USN, Ret.
21:56 Silentbrick
21:55 JosephMendiola
21:52 JosephMendiola
21:46 JosephMendiola
21:37 USN, Ret.
21:35 JosephMendiola
21:31 JosephMendiola
21:26 Rambler in Virginia
21:25 JosephMendiola
21:05 JosephMendiola
21:00 Frank G
20:53 Frank G
20:38 Pappy
20:31 DepotGuy
20:22 jefe101
20:05 Thing From Snowy Mountain
19:58 Procopius2k
18:49 swksvolFF
18:32 Rambler in Virginia
18:14 Chantry