Thirteen people, including prison officials, were injured after a fire broke out in Al-Hair Jail on the southern edge of the capital yesterday morning. According to a prison official, the fire affected the inmates of Cell No. 14. Of the 13 prisoners in the cell, nine were rushed to hospital with smoke inhalation. âThey are all safe and sound,â the official said in a statement. The blaze reportedly started in the juvenile section of the prison and was quickly extinguished by the Civil Defense.
Al-Hair Jail, which has some 3,500 inmates, was the scene of a major fire in September last year, which killed 68 inmates. As a result the Ministry of the Interior recently sacked the director of prisons in the Riyadh region and the chief of Al-Hair Jail and suspended several jailers. An inquiry established that the fire was started deliberately by an inmate who set a blanket ablaze, according to an Interior Ministry official. The prisoner, who was identified as Saad Fehaid Al-Subaie, will be put on trial.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/24/2004 10:17:52 AM ||
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Only injured?
Anyone want to place bets on their surviving their injuries?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/24/2004 11:23 Comments ||
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BBC reporters are receiving training in impartial journalism following criticisms made by the Hutton Report into the death of Dr David Kelly. The âimpartiality seminarsâ aim to encourage reporters and producers at BBC News to think outside of the âleft-leaning liberalâ mentality traditionally associated with the corporation. That should be good for a laugh
The two-hour seminars will include discussions about the dangers of not being neutral in reports, and about the nature of impartiality and how to encourage it. In an e-mail to staff, Richard Sambrook, director of BBC News, told workers that audiences were increasingly sceptical of the service they provided and the challenge was to "restate the case for our journalism and to articulate it in a multi-channel world". The Hutton Report criticised the BBC for the way it handled a radio report on the Today Programme about the Governmentâs policy on Iraq, which ultimately led to the resignation of chairman Gavyn Davies and director-general Greg Dyke.
Posted by: tipper ||
04/24/2004 1:02:17 AM ||
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They're already impartial. I don't get it? How could they be biased? This is the BBC! They're too professional to allow their personal issues affect their reporting. The BBC reporters are so professional that even to suggest that they're like other, lesser humans is simply offensive.
#3
'rewards and punishment' behavior modification? Cooool! Can I work the cattle prod this time?
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/24/2004 6:58 Comments ||
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#4
'Impartiality' Training for BBC 'Reporters'
There. Now the headline looks right.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/24/2004 8:11 Comments ||
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#5
What a load of horse manure. Propagandists have to be trained to insert bias, not to be impartial.
The devices of misleading half-truth, strawman, emotionally loaded connotation, and invited inference have to be learned.
Mass comm schools teach this, along with all the other devices of manipulation.
What we need to do, and I recognize that it is almost a hopeless task, is to educate the public in recognizing these devices and avoiding the false conclusions they invite.
Ignorance that one is being manipulated is one thing, the concious choice to be manipulated is something else.
A lot of media propaganda is designed to indoctrinate those who choose to conform, not to persuade those who have not yet made a choice. The media culture is glamorous, it is an outlet for the boredom, despair, and futility that fill many lives. The biases we see are very often so crude and transparent that they wouldn't persuade even the most naive viewer of anything, they are simply a way of cuing the conformists: this is what you will believe if you want to conform and vicariously bring the perceived elitism of media culture into your life.
#6
The two-hour seminars will include discussions about the dangers of not being neutral in reports, and about the nature of impartiality and how to encourage it.
Oh goody. Two hours of discussion and encouragement to counter years of education, culture and group-think.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/24/2004 09:24 ||
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Whatever the UN does, we need to get some regional repair teams working on the infrastructure of Haiti. We can pull out later if the Haitians decide to go with a Chavez wannabee, but fostering economic prosperity and mentoring a transparent democracy are not the UN's strong points.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/24/2004 18:21 Comments ||
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Mustafa Ceric, ... the leader of Bosniaâs Islamic Community, was born in 1950 and studied theology and philosophy in Cairo, taking his doctorate in Chicago. He has sought to portray Bosnian Islam as a tolerant, European Islam, open to both East and West, while remaining very clear about its beliefs. Nonetheless, many secular Bosnian citizens of all backgrounds, as well as religious Serbs and Croats, remain deeply suspicious of him, saying that he has quietly worked to put an Islamic religious stamp on Bosnia.
In any event, Cericâs public statements generally lack the anti-Western bias that some other prominent Islamic leaders from former Yugoslavia still retain from the communist period. At the same time, he has often noted that Bosnian Muslims acquired their Islam from the Ottoman Empire and not from Arabia, which places them in a different tradition from Islamic groups with their roots directly in Arabia. ...
On 16 April, Ceric gave an interview to veteran German-language Balkan correspondent Erich Rathfelder for Berlinâs die tageszeitung, in which Ceric addressed some highly topical issues. He began by rejecting the idea of a "clash of civilizations," saying that the world is moving toward freedom and democratic states based on the rule of law. "The world can thank Western civilization and especially Europe for this trend," he argued. ....
He denies that there is a specific "Bosnian Islam," but argues that Islam in Bosnia has experienced unique developments in the course of the past 500 years. Ceric calls the result "an Islam that threatens nobody and is directed neither against other peoples nor against its own society. We are for tolerance and civilized behavior and reject the mentality of tribal society. .... we live in Europe, and I as a European Muslim would like to make my contribution to European civilization and be recognized accordingly."
When Rathfelder asked him about the alleged wartime influx of Islamic fundamentalists from Saudi Arabia and elsewhere in the Middle East, Ceric responded that there are many more dangerous people from the Middle East in Germany, France, or Britain than in Bosnia. He noted that postwar Bosnia needs help and is in no position to turn down money from Saudi Arabia, which, in any event, remains an ally of the West. ....
What he does worry about is Muslims in Western Europe, who are primarily a diverse mixture of immigrant communities. "The Muslims in Europe must develop their own unified [institution]. This is in Europeâs interest. Our religious teachers should be educated in Europe and regard themselves as European Muslims," Ceric says.
.... a front-page editorial entitled "American Friends" quotes Ceric as saying that the Americans are indeed the friends of the Bosnian Muslims, who should make this point clear to their Muslim friends around the world. The Americans remain Bosniaâs friends, he adds, even if one would wish that the United States had a different policy in the Middle East. The editorial points out that the United States came forward with a donation of $1 million to make the proposed Srebrenica memorial center a reality in 2003. .....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/24/2004 12:42:56 PM ||
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Ceric responded that there are many more dangerous people from the Middle East in Germany, France, or Britain than in Bosnia
Posted by: B ||
04/24/2004 17:37 Comments ||
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#1
And there are people who think it could never happen here. I suspect there are some LLLs out there on the fringes of the political spectrum that would love to ban some of the more conservative leaning organizations just like there are some on the right who would like to do the same to organizations on the left. Unions specifically
#3
Umm, the Vlaams Blok is a pretty extremist party, kind of like the Flemish equivelent to Le Pen's National Front...
Although they shouldn't be banned, just criticised
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
04/24/2004 9:08 Comments ||
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#4
I almost fully agree with P.M. they should not be banned but they should not be criticised either, idiots like the "Vlaams Blok" should just be ignored.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/24/2004 16:15 ||
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I hope they have the giant puppets - nothing says "we want a serious policy discussion" like giant puppets
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/24/2004 17:31 Comments ||
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Inflatable John Kerry? Already inflated Michael Moore? Re-inflatable Rachel Corrie?
Posted by: Matt ||
04/24/2004 17:56 Comments ||
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#3
I hope they have another cardboard bulldozer. I can't get enough of those.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/24/2004 18:14 Comments ||
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#4
Give them part of what they want. Put a total stop to all new loans. A big freeze. Then sit back and see how they squeal.
Posted by: Michael ||
04/24/2004 18:38 Comments ||
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#5
Would someone please explain to me why, in an age of instant and secure communications, the IMF/World bank has to hold these meetings? (Besides the smiley face photo opps and the host city getting trashed, I mean.)
#6
....I can't wait until the G7 meet in Savannah - about 2 hours south of me - in a couple months. For all its 'liberal' reputation, that town brooks no crap from ANYBODY. The city fathers have already passed an ordnance that says you have to put down a deposit to protest, and the protesters are having conniptions. The cops have already said that if you demonstrate without a permit, you go to jail. Should be fun...
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
04/24/2004 23:47 Comments ||
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Democrats are furious about a statement by Republicans saying that comparing one of their candidates to presidential candidate John Kerry would be worse than comparing someone to the Ku Klux Klan. big-time F**k-up by the NYT
The dispute started when The New York Times "inadvertently" published a photo of Republican Senate candidate Pete Coors above a story about a KKK member who murdered a black sharecropper. The Times published a weak correction Saturday. Cinamon Watson, spokeswoman for Coors, said the error was "so outrageous itâs kind of funny. It could have been worse. Pete could have been identified as John Kerry." Oo-La-La! heh heh Chris Gates, chairman of the Colorado Democratic Party, hysterically demanded an do-over apology. He said Democrats are "out there campaigning positively on the issues, and the Republicans canât help but resort to the lowest level of insult and name-calling." "He betrayed America" - remember that?
Kerry spokesman Phil Singer said the comment was "the kind of thing people hate about Liberal politics." Coors, head of the Coors brewing empire, is seeking the Republican nomination to fill the seat being vacated by Republican Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell, who is retiring. Thank God for Peter Coors, who not only praises God, but makes better beer than Anheuser-Busch
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/24/2004 9:15:15 PM ||
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Things must be a little terse in the Kerry Kamp for the humor low level light to already be blinking.
#3
Good I'm glad the GOP is running a candidate with a recognizable for that open seat. Even hu8ngover guys will recognize that name. Sorry about Nighthorse's illness.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/25/2004 2:23 Comments ||
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[EFL]
Martin County [Florida] Girl Scout leaders thought the troops might enjoy a day at the mall with their fathers. The fathers and daughters could spend quality time together, completing a scavenger hunt for items in the store windows. Then, after lunch at the food court, they could shop for a Mother's Day present. But Treasure Coast Square mall management didn't agree that it was such a wholesome event. It seems Girl Scouts wandering around with their fathers- holding pencils and paper- violates the post-Sept. 11 security policy... "Our enhanced security prohibits us from hosting events that allow participants to wander freely around the mall area." "Hey you, stop that wandering over there!"
"But I was shopping!"
"You can't fool me- I saw you wandering! Now get out!"
In addition, surveys are prohibited on mall property- and girls holding pencils and papers "could be perceived as such..." "Pardon me, sir, on a scale of 1 to 10, how lame do you think this excuse is?"
"How do we know they're Girl Scouts?" "Green Uniforms?" "Check."
"With their fathers?" "Check."
"No explosive belts, AK-47s, or turbans?" "Check."
"Alright, must be terrorists!" If you don?t want the Scouts wandering around, have enough guts so say so. Don't use 9/11 as an excuse. [Hat tip to LWATCDR, posting at Slashdot.]
Posted by: Old Grouch ||
04/24/2004 12:46:33 PM ||
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Boycott the mall til this a-hole is canned
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/24/2004 15:29 Comments ||
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#2
Well, for decades leftists have been decrying the Scouts as "paramilitary organizations".
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/24/2004 22:32 Comments ||
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Excerpt from Secretary Rumsfeld Remarks to the Newspaper Association of America/American Society of Newspaper Editors
Today, in the global war on terror, there is often a non-trivial difference between what is reported and the facts on the ground. Al- Jazeera and Al-Arabiyah, with their broad coverage in the Middle East, are routinely telling the world lies about coalition actions. But I believe that that, too, will be corrected over time. Afghans and Iraqis are now free. After decades of being fed lies by dictatorial regimes and the controlled press, they are starting to thirst for the truth. In Iraq, since liberation one year ago, more than 200 newspapers have popped up. Afghanistan now has more than 100 papers in Kabul alone, Iâm told. Just a few years ago your contemporaries in Iraq and Afghanistan were jailed and tortured and killed if they had the courage to report the news as they saw it.
Just as Americans have, so too free Afghans and Iraqis will eventually develop their own sense of balance, their own inner gyroscopes, and an ability to absorb what they hear.
-snip-
Q Lou Ureneck from Boston University. Some experts have said that --
SEC. RUMSFELD: I thought this was for editors and publishers. (Laughter.)
Q Formerly of the Philadelphia Inquirer. (Laughter.) I teach journalism at Boston University.
SEC. RUMSFELD: Wellllll, thatâs close. (Laughter.) What do you think, folks? (Laughter.) (Applause.) You want to let him have it? All right. What is it, Professor?
Q Hopefully, the students are listening. (Laughter.) Some people say that the current insurrection in Iraq is traceable to the closure of a newspaper a couple of weeks ago by Mr. Bremer. Iâd like to get your thinking and reasoning about that event and what it may have contributed to the events of the last week and a half or so.
SEC. RUMSFELD: I love the beginning of that question, "some people think." There is nothing that some people donât think. (Laughter, applause.) The idea that the conflict and the flare-ups and the shootings and the killings that are taking place in Iraq today are a result of the closing of that paper, I think, is, A, a stretch, and B, undoubtedly not provable, and, I would submit, not only not provable, but not accurate. The paper was closed for 60 days, Iâm told. It still is under way. The coalition determined that it was inciting Iraqi citizens to violence by deliberately reporting false stories, which is a violation of the law that prohibits inciting civil disorder in Iraq at the present time. More than a hundred papers have sprung up in Iraq. Most are covering events in a very responsible way.
Now letâs get a REAL editor or publisher. (Laughs.) (Laughter.) I hope your students are not watching. (Laughter.)
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/24/2004 3:32:21 AM ||
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I think he handled that poorly; I think he'd have been much better off pointing out that Sadr has been planning these actions for a fairly long time, much longer than the time span of the closure of the newspaper.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
04/24/2004 11:16 Comments ||
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Ladies and gentlemen, itâs a pleasure to be with you. I feel like I belong here. Iâve sold newspapers in Illinois, Washington state, Oregon, North Carolina and California over my career, which Tony left out. (Laughter.) I want to offer some thoughts on our current situation in Afghanistan, in Iraq, and in the global war on terror, and then as he suggested respond to questions. But first let me take a few moments to comment and offer a few reflections on the interaction between your business and your government over these past years.
Those of us in government need to keep in mind the daily miracle of what it is you do, the work you do. You do something that is rare in Washington: you actually produce something. (Laughter.) Consider what might happen in government were asked to put out a daily newspaper. Well, for starters, there would likely be flurry of meetings, leaked memos, and then I suspect leaked recommendations, followed by the adoption of a draft policy guideline and then a 90-day open comment period where interest groups would proceed to shred that guideline. Then we would need a request for a supplemental budget for sure, possibly even a recommendation for a new federal agency, to be followed by a congressional investigation on why we missed our deadline. (Laughter, applause.) Followed, of course, by an independent commission to study what the congressional investigation had already studied.
-snip-
So yours is important work. Our republic was founded on the notion that an unchecked government is a major obstacle to human freedom and to progress, and that our leaders need to be challenged, internally through the complex constitutional system of checks and balances, and externally by a free and energetic press. This is a notion Iâve supported throughout my adult life. As a matter of fact, as a young member of Congress back in the 1960s, still in my 30s, I was a co-sponsor of the Freedom of Information Act. Now we all recognize that that act causes government officials occasional pain, but in my view, it has been a valuable act in helping to get the facts to the American people.
As secretary of Defense this time, I believe and I certainly hope that our department has offered reporters and media as much or more access than possibly ever before. Iâm told that Iâve held over 350 press briefings and press availabilities since I was confirmed in January of 2001. Itâs unbelievable. Itâs exhausting. (Laughter.) Itâs risky! (Laughter.) Thatâs for sure. Iâve also granted hundreds of interviews, and at Torie Clarkeâs suggestion, we instituted an embedding program during the combat operations in Iraq, including some 500 journalists from some 250 outlets that we believe enriched the coverage and serve the public well. Even today, we have dozens of embeds with our forces in Afghanistan and in Iraq.
Our great political system needs information to be self-correcting. While excesses and imbalances will inevitably exist for a time, fortunately they tend not to last. Ultimately truth prevails. The American people seem to have inner gyroscopes that keep them centered and balanced. Consider, for example, Harry Truman.
-snip-
But during his time as president and for many years thereafter, he was roundly criticized. Indeed, he was brutally ridiculed. But to my -- the amazement of many people he was reelected in 1948 notwithstanding the ridicule and the abuse, and today he has a deservedly proud place in American history. The sheep herd behavior by experts and pundits that led him to be so severely criticized prevailed for a while, but it did not last forever. The public seems to eventually find its way to the truth.
Fancy that.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/24/2004 3:01:24 AM ||
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And the fringes of the LLL cry endlessly about Nazis in the White House
Excerpt - approved by the Senate unanimously and Chiraq probably would have signed it as well as it is heavy on form and light on substance.
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government.
Authorizes the President, after notifying specified congressional committees, to provide to the Iraqi democratic opposition organizations: (1) grant assistance for radio and television broadcasting to Iraq; (2) Department of Defense (DOD) defense articles and services and military education and training (IMET); and (3) humanitarian assistance, with emphasis on addressing the needs of individuals who have fled from areas under the control of the Hussein regime. Prohibits assistance to any group or organization that is engaged in military cooperation with the Hussein regime. Authorizes appropriations.
Directs the President to designate: (1) one or more Iraqi democratic opposition organizations that meet specified criteria as eligible to receive assistance under this Act; and (2) additional such organizations which satisfy the Presidentâs criteria. ...
Here are some questions that might be pertinent for the 9/11 Commission to ask themselves:
Do you think that this document might have been a reason for the Bush Administrations fascination with regime change in Iraq?
Could it be that it was legislated national policy that he was sworn to implement?
Isnât the essence of the Executive branch of government to enforce legislation that Congress enacts?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/24/2004 2:15:56 AM ||
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Anyone paying attention during the 1999-2000 Presidential primary would know then Governor Bush and then Vice President to the President of Vice alGore both told voters they would change regimes in Iraq. AlGore was lying. President Bush was dead serious. Bravo President Bush.
#2
I think the general idea was to keep passing blowhard, no-substance resolutions like this until Saddam finally laughed so hard he popped a blood vessel and died. Then we could have just walked in.
It's like my 8-ball strategy of leaving all my balls on the table as obstacles and hoping my opponent will scratch on the 8.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/24/2004 8:09 Comments ||
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#3
"Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government."
Strange that the Demos weren't having fits then. Well, I guess they're just plain reactionary when their guy's not in the Oval Office.
Kuala Lumpur has threatened to push the selection of the next secretary-general of the Jeddah-based Organization of the Islamic Conference to a vote for the first time in the organisationâs 35-year history. âThis (vote) may be the only avenue available if Bangladesh and Turkey, who are also vying for the post, do not agree to a compromise,â Malaysian Foreign Minister Syed Hamid Albar was quoted as saying by diplomatic sources in Dhaka yesterday. Bangladesh is a serious candidate for the same post. The prime ministerâs parliamentary affairs adviser Salauddin Quader Chowdhury has been nominated for the post. Some 35 OIC member countries have expressed their support for Bangladeshâs candidature. The latest country to back Dhakaâs bid is Djibouti. The commitment of unequivocal support has been conveyed in a letter addressed to Prime Minister Khaleda Zia by president of Djibouti Ismael Omar Guelleh. In his letter, President Guelleh said the Bangladesh candidate possesses the leadership qualities and the negotiating skills that are required to make the OIC more effective to advance the interests of the Islamic Ummah, Foreign Ministry officials said in Dhaka.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/24/2004 10:19:08 AM ||
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What the world needs is an Organization of the Non-Muslim conference. At this conference, non-Muslims can talk about the problem of Islamic terrorism.
Ali Hashemi, the head of Iranâs counternarcotics agency, said that there are 2 million drug addicts in the country, contradicting an earlier figure of 2.7 million, though he admitted the number is imprecise. .... He said the country hopes to maintain the figure at 2 million over the next decade, the daily added. .... between 25 and 30 percent of Iranians suffer from "psychological illnesses" and 6 percent have "acute depression," but only 1 percent receive any treatment. ... 2-3 percent of Iranians are schizophrenics, while depression, stress, obsession, sexual problems, and sleeplessness are far more prevalent.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/24/2004 12:57:41 PM ||
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Disagreeing with the government is often described as a "psychological illness" in fascist regimes.
#2
Actually, if you looked at Americans clinically, they would probably have a similar statistical breakdown in many ways, with of course some variation.
Start with the Standard Distribution Curve, i.e., 50% of *any* population is "below normal" as far as mental health go. 17% (of the total) are so mentally ill as to have difficulty functioning in society, and 5% probably need institutionalization.
Now, this is just using the SDC. There are a TON of mitigating factors working both ways, that is, pushing people towards mental health *and* mental illness.
So in all fairness, in a country with a lot of modern stresses such as war, authoritarian government, high unemployment, etc., and a lack of not just modern medicine to treat psychiatric problems, but also competant support organizations and people, you *will* see pretty high rates of mental illness.
Zimbabwe's Finance Minister Chris Kuruneri was arrested for violating currency laws, becoming the first senior government official to be jailed under President Robert Mugabe's crackdown on corruption. Kuruneri, 54, was arrested in Harare for "externalising foreign currency" -- one million US dollars, 100,000 British pounds and 300,000 South African rand -- over the past two years, police spokesman Wayne Bvudzijena told AFP.
ESTEEMED SIR,
YOU ARE PROBABLY SURPRISED TO RECEIVE THIS COMMUNICATION FROM ME. ALLOW ME TO INTRODUCE MYSELF. I AM CHRIS KURUNERI, FINANCE MINISTER OF ZIMBABWE...
But he said it was not clear whether Kuruneri had siphoned the money out of the country or had failed to repatriate the funds to Zimbabwe in line with the strict laws governing the country's scarce hard currency flow. "We have arrested the minister of finance under the Exchange Control and Regulations Act for externalising foreign currency, believed to have occurred between March 2002 and March 2004," Bvudzijena told AFP. "It is believed most of the money was destined for South Africa," he added. Kuruneri was last month reported by South African media to be building an eight-bedroom mansion in a plush suburb of Cape Town. Kuruneri is also being investigated for breaching citizenship laws that prohibit dual citizenship, Bvudizjena said. Kuruneri reportedly holds Canadian and Zimbabwean passports. Mugabe launched a nationwide anti-corruption drive early this year, appointing a special minister responsible for overseeing the campaign which he described as "an internal war to fight the evils within our system." So far two senior officials from the ruling Zimbabwe African National Union Patriotic Front (ZANU-PF) have been arrested in addition to several business people.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/24/2004 3:08:00 PM ||
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"becoming the first senior government official to be jailed under President Robert Mugabe's crackdown on corruption"
damn - Miller Lite out the nose! Scrappleface, right? no?
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/24/2004 15:25 Comments ||
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#2
You just can't trust those 'Canadians', now, can you?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/24/2004 18:53 Comments ||
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A Turkish immigrant who is charged with killing his wife and critically injuring his two daughters in their Scottsville [near Rochester, NY] townhouse allegedly claimed he acted as a matter of honor. Ismail Peltek, who was indicted Friday on charges of second-degree murder in the April 15 slaying of his wife, Hatice Peltek, claimed he attacked his wife and daughters after learning that his brother had molested his wife and his 22-year-old daughter, according to court documents. Peltek, 41, said he attacked his 4-year-old daughter because she had been âsulliedâ by a gynecological exam. âI was concerned that my familyâs honor was taken,â he allegedly told investigators.
Peltek allegedly made the remarks 14 hours after the attack to Monroe County sheriffâs investigators at Strong Memorial Hospital, where he was treated for self-inflicted stab wounds to his abdomen and hammer wounds to his head. His 39-year-old wife died after being stabbed repeatedly and bludgeoned on the head with a hammer. His daughters suffered fractured skulls from hammer blows. âIf you had the opportunity to kill the family again, would you?â he was asked by Rochester police Officer Emre Arican, who was brought in to help investigators because he speaks Turkish. âMy female family, yes. My male family, no,â Peltek allegedly replied. .... Peltek and his family, which includes sons who are 18 and 17, came to the United States five years ago, he told investigators. They settled in Scottsville 16 months ago. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/24/2004 1:01:48 PM ||
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Peltek, 41, said he attacked his 4-year-old daughter because she had been âsulliedâ by a gynecological exam.
Checking for abuse?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/24/2004 13:11 Comments ||
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#2
I suggest he undergo a testicular exam, by Louisville Slugger.
Batter up!
#3
I am doubtful that the two sons are going to be the type of citizens that we want to add to the melting pot. Interview them and expel them as required. I a human family (no I didnât mean humane) would be more than happy to adopt the daughter.
TS, give his brother the treatment also and don't spare the pine tar. You don't want the grip to slip. If bro molested the four year old girl, have him pitched over the fence into the alligator pond at the local zoo.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/24/2004 18:45 Comments ||
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#4
If one feels compelled to kill in the name of the family honor hows about going after the person who actually acted to dishonor the family, namely the frigging brother. This is what awaits the wives and daughters of our European brothern if the Islamofacsits ever take over
#5
If one feels compelled to kill in the name of the family honor hows about going after the person who actually acted to dishonor the family, namely the frigging brother. This is what awaits the wives and daughters of our European brothern if the Islamofacsits ever take over
#6
Maybe theses pussies go after the wife and daughters because to go after the actual perpetrators of the crime would probably result in them getting their asses kicked and, Allah knows, think how that would fuck with their "honor".
A market vendor sold Christian brothers Saleem and Rasheed Masih ice cream, then told them they had to pay for the bowls because he couldnât again serve a Muslim from the now-defiled utensils. The brothers refused. Days later, the vendor accused the brothers of verbally insulting the Prophet Mohammed. Under Pakistani law, Section 295-C, thatâs blasphemy, which can be punishable by life in prison, a stiff fine or death. The Masihs were sentenced to 35 years. They spent four years in Sahiwal Central Jail before a Lahore High Court judge acquitted them in April 2003.
But the case received wide press coverage. Fundamentalist Muslims who refused to believe their innocence immediately began pursuing them. The brothers left the jail in one car and switched to a different one as they fled into hiding. They shaved their beards and have lived in three cities since their release from prison to protect themselves from violent mobs. A year after their acquittal the brothers, who are Roman Catholic, remain in hiding as they seek asylum in the West.
"We canât go home to our village. In Islamabad, people are looking for us. Our lives are in danger,â Rasheed Masih said. "In Pakistan, there isnât any safe place (for us)."
The Masihs are among a growing number of Pakistanis, both Christian and Muslim, whose lives have been thrown into turmoil because of false allegations of blasphemy. According to prominent Karachi-based Christian attorney M.L. Shahani, from 1948 until 1986, only 14 blasphemy cases were registered. But from 1987 until 1999, 44 stood accused of blasphemy, and in 2000 alone, 52 cases were registered 43 against Muslims and nine against Christians. Pakistanâs Christian community claims to be some 4 million strong in a country of 150 million.
"Anybody can go to a police station and register a case under Section 295-C against any person," Shahani writes in an undated report titled Sharia and State. "The police would immediately register a case and arrest the accused without checking the veracity of the facts."
An accusation by a single person is all thatâs needed to put the alleged blasphemer behind bars, where he must prove his innocence, said Elizabeth Kendal, the World Evangelical Alliance Religious Liberty Commissionâs main researcher and writer. "The amount of suffering a charge of blasphemy produces is so great that the blasphemy law must be considered a serious problem," she said. "The accusation virtually turns the victim into a âdead man walking."
Joseph Francis, director of the Lahore-based Christian organization Centre for Legal Aid Assistance and Settlement, or CLAAS, said that lower courts punish all blasphemy cases "but higher courts acquit them after investigations." CLAAS lawyers defended the Masih brothers.
But simply abolishing that law today isnât so easy. In the early 1990s, the Supreme Court upheld its constitutionality. Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf, who came to power in a 1999 coup, sought to repeal it, but a violent public outcry and general strike forced an end to his efforts. In response to the rising numbers of blasphemy cases, CLAAS has joined Christian lawyers and political leaders in preparing a bill that will criminalize filing false blasphemy charges. Because the blasphemy law is used more against Muslims than those of minority faiths, Muslim opposition to the law is rising. "But it will take time," Francis said. After the new bill is drawn up, lawmakers will need at least six months to process it. And it, too, may be met by extremist violence.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/24/2004 12:53:27 PM ||
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#1
Why don't we give these guys asylum in the US and ship Pakistan the sick bastard who tried to kill his kids?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/24/2004 13:13 Comments ||
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Ah, the religion of peace and tolerance. *spit*
The head of Iranâs prisoners of war commission, Brigadier-General Abdullah Najafi, said on 22 April that "there are no Iraqi prisoners whatsoever in Iran" from the 1980-88 war with Iraq, ISNA reported. He said Iranâs "Islamic and humane" treatment of prisoners led to 7,634 Iraqis staying in Iran, where "they currently live as Iranian citizens ... and those who returned preached the Islamic religion to their families."
But the Foreign Ministry "is gathering evidence to take legal action against Saddam [Hussein] because most Iranian prisoners were subjected to torture that was illegal and inhumane," he said, adding that "a number of" Iranian captives who sought asylum in Iraq were given to the Mujahedin Khalq Organization (MKO), an Iranian rebel group. "According to our reports, after the fall of the Saddam regime, these asylum seekers remain in the barracks under [MKO] guard and are not allowed to leave." Najafi accused U.S. occupying forces of preventing the Red Cross from visiting them to ask if they wish to return to Iran.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/24/2004 12:47:32 PM ||
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If you want to know the real perpetrator of every disaster or every act of terrorism, look for the Zionist Jews. They are behind all the violent and terror operations that have occurred everywhere in the world. [They do this] first of all in order to slap [the label of the attacks] on the Arabs and Muslims, and second to harm them, distort their image, and represent them to the world as terrorists who endanger innocents. What is even more dangerous is that after every terror operation they perpetrate, they leave a sign, clue, or traces meant to show that the perpetrators are Arab Muslims.
Their most recent operation was the bombings in Spain. Spanish Interior Minister Angel Acebes said a videocassette in Arabic was found near one of the Madrid mosques, and in it the military spokesman of the Al-Qaâida organization took responsibility for these attacks. But [Acebes] repeatedly contradicted [himself] by saying that the credibility of the cassette had not yet been proven... In addition, a van was found next to the Atocha train station in Madrid with traces of explosives and a cassette of the Koran.
It is obvious that the Jews are the ones who placed these things, in order to prove to the entire world that the Arabs and Muslims are behind the bombings. But because Allah wanted to expose them and their games, the Spanish prime minister declared immediately after the incident that the explosives that were used in these [attacks] were of the same type used by the ETA organization in previous explosions!! This in addition to the U.S. statement that the cassette that was found was not genuine and did not belong to the Al-Qaâida organization, but had been planted [to implicate] them.
It is the Jews, with their hidden filthy hands, who play their part with expertise in order to harm the Arabs and Muslims and to intensify hatred towards them. They have experience in this area. All precedents attest to this. Their black history is the best possible proof that hatred toward the Arabs and the Muslims fills their hearts and blinds their eyes. They are behind all troubles, disasters and catastrophes in the world.
Actually, it is they who are behind the events of September 11. Proof of this is what was broadcast by the Canadian news agency on September 17 ... that prior to the events the CIA had received a report that the Mossad would carry out an attack operation on American territory, in a new attempt to divert attention from the barbaric Israeli operations against the Palestinian people.
Further [proof] of this is the news in the American papers at that time, that 4,000 Jews of American origin who worked at the World Trade Center received instructions from the Mossad not to go to work that day.
We also find a heavy blackout by America regarding the results of the investigations into the September 11 events. So far it has published no conclusions, and has not told us who the real perpetrator of these events is, as revealed by the investigations. Since America knows very well that the Jews and the Mossad are behind these events, it will never declare the results of the investigations. This is so as not to anger its ally Israel and in order to evade the evil of these Jews and of the Zionist lobby that infiltrates and rules the decision-makers in America. In addition, the ongoing blaming of the Arabs and Muslims gives America justification to escalate and develop this wild attack on the Muslims, even though it is an imaginary charge not grounded in reality. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/24/2004 12:28:46 PM ||
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#10
Yeah, BMN.
If only those Jews would just quit wanting the land they've fought for (at least 3 times in modern history) and that Jehovah gave them and just go quietly to the cattle cars waiting to take them to the death camps, Antiwar would think they're super!
Posted by: Jen ||
04/24/2004 15:13 Comments ||
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#11
"If you want to know the real perpetrator of every disaster or every act of terrorism, look for the Zionist Jews."
Obviousley this is saying the same thing you are Antiwar. You forgot to read the first sentence. I give up. WhatEVER!
#15
You know, it's very funny that the Jews are behind everything, because that would imply that they already have conspiracies with a level of that control that put them basically in charge of the world . . . but wait, they're behind everything because the followers of Allah are the only ones keeping them from taking over the world . . .
My brain hurts.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
04/24/2004 23:30 Comments ||
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#16
The Mossad! I knew it!
You know if the Mossad was as good as these psychos seem to think they are, there wouldn't be a muslim left on this planet.
#19
Jen God gave that land to the DESCENDANTS of Abraham etc i.e the Palestinians.Hey Lil Kuffar formerly Lil Dimmy haven't heard from you in a while. BMN and Bom-a-rama you are both idiots.
Al-Guardian's way behind the curve on this story. It's been around for at least a month...
.... Anecdotal evidence suggests several hundred young women are burning themselves to death every year in western Afghanistan. A government mission sent to investigate the problem in Herat, the biggest city in the countryâs west, reported that at least 52 young, married, or soon-to-be married women had burned themselves to death in the city in recent months. The youngest was a 13-year-old bride-to-be.
Mr Shah says he knows of more than 80 cases of self-immolation in nearby Farah province - where Mallali took her life - in the past two years. A niece of his was among the victims. "There is not a village in Farah where a young woman has not burned herself to death," he said. .... "In our culture, women have always burned themselves, because they have always been so badly treated," said Amina Safi Afzali of the Afghan Human Rights Commission. "But this phenomenon was never as prevalent as it is today."
Behind the increase, says Ms Afzali, is a disillusionment felt by many educated Afghan women because the two years since the fall of the Taliban have brought precious little freedom. This is felt most among former refugees who returned from Iran and who had grown accustomed to a freer life there. Significantly most of the female suicides recorded in Herat, about 60 miles from the border with Iran, were educated women, including several nurses and teachers. "There are many more pressures on young Afghan women today because they have learned what freedom is from radio and television, but that is not what they have," Ms Afzali said. "In the past, every girl knew she belonged to her family, she existed only for her father and her husband: she knew she wasnât free. Now, young girls know they should have rights, and they are prepared to burn themselves to show society that they do not have them yet." ....
"Women in this country are in a very bad situation, with forced marriages, families selling their daughters to pay drug debts, women being beaten all the time," said Suraya Sobah Rang, the deputy womenâs minister. "We have to change these things in our society. But what society wants, and what women want, are two different things."
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
04/24/2004 12:20:55 PM ||
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#1
...They're burning themselves?
Got my doubts on that one.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
04/24/2004 12:43 Comments ||
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I wish I had doubts. I also wish we were able to do more to lift the state of women there. Women's hearts and minds are the deciding factor in this war. Modern society is nothing without women and no one can expect to compete globally when half their population is prevented from contributing.
Posted by: joe ||
04/24/2004 13:03 Comments ||
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#3
Yeah, I'm with you Mike...makes you wonder. And when you're "freer in Iran," you know you got issues. Bet a lot of these are "cleansing" killings to clear the families' names b/c they cooperated with the infidels...I mean the U.S.
Posted by: BA ||
04/24/2004 13:06 Comments ||
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#4
Or they talked to the wrong boy, or they refused to be married off to a cousin in exchange for a couple goats, or they told someone about their being abused, or...
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/24/2004 13:17 Comments ||
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Taking a cue off RC, it's that or get acid splashed in their faces.
Georgia's new president dramatically escalated a war of words with a rebellious regional leader on Thursday, calling for the overthrow of the country's "major problem". Mikhail Saakashvili, elected in January after leading a bloodless revolution, has been locked in a stand-off with Adzharia leader Aslan Abashidze almost since taking office. Last month, they came to the brink of bloodshed after both sides mobilised their forces in a crisis sparked by Adzharan militias refusing to allow Saakashvili into the region, which includes the major oil-shipping port of Batumi.
Western powers have watched the tension closely, keen for stability in a country that forms part of the route for a major oil pipeline between Azerbaijan and the Mediterranean. "The major problem...is the situation linked to Aslan Abashidze, and not with Adzhara itself," 36-year-old Saakashvili told the first session of a parliament elected last month, saying Abashidze and his entourage were criminals. It was his first appearance in parliament since he overthrew veteran leader Eduard Shevardnadze in last November's "rose" revolution. "Freeing the Adzharans from these criminal elements must be the responsibility of the new Georgian leadership." Saakashvili has promised to crack down on corruption and rein in separatist regions. Adzhara has never declared independence, unlike two other regions, but Abashidze has run it as a personal fiefdom since the fall of the Soviet Union. Abashidze defused last month's tensions by agreeing to surrender some of his powers and disarm militias. But he has back-pedalled on these promises and Saakashvili said the government would never agree to him remaining in power.
Saakashvili said there was a criminal regime in Adzhara that was involved in drug trafficking, illegal detention of people, murder and other crimes. "I will never allow the existence of criminal elements, drug dealer and killers," he said. Parliament is packed with Saakashvili supporters, who won a landslide in last month's poll. Only one opposition party managed to pass a seven percent threshold to enter parliament. Saakashvili said parliament should adopt a new tax code to try to straighten out public finances, while he would try to improve international relations. "My key duty is to establish serious partner-like relations with Russia," he said. Georgia's relations with its giant neighbour have been poisoned by Moscow saying Georgia is harbouring rebels fighting Russian rule in Chechnya, while Tbilisi has accused Russia of dragging its feet over the withdrawal of Soviet-era military bases from Georgia.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/24/2004 10:25:41 AM ||
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Buoyed by success in foiling the opposition move to siege Hawa Bhaban, the political office of the ruling Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP) chairperson Prime Minister Khaleda Zia, law enforcers have launched a fresh crackdown to frustrate any attempt of the Awami League to force the government to resign by April 30. Police continued their lightning swoop at different places in the capital and more than 2,500 were arrested till yesterday. The arrested were being shown held randomly on various charges. According to the police, most of the people were shown arrested under the Dhaka Metropolitan Police Act while a few of them were netted in regular cases or warrants. The raids were conducted mainly at all the entry points to the capital such as railway stations, bus terminals and launch terminals and stadiums, market places and some opposition party offices.
Barring a few people â the aged, females and the sick â all the people were taken to the police stations concerned. The police released some of them after questioning while the others were shown arrested on different charges. Many of the police stations in the capital were seen crowded with the arrested. They were kept in the duty officersâ rooms as there was no room for them in the lockups. Many of the arrested shouted claiming themselves âinnocentâ and blamed the police for implicating them on âfalse chargesâ. The police said the raids would continue till April 30, the deadline set by the Awami League for the BNP-led four-party alliance government to resign and pave the way for midterm general election.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/24/2004 10:22:54 AM ||
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Excerpt from Secretary Rumsfeld Remarks to the Newspaper Association of America/American Society of Newspaper Editors Q My question is that in recent weeks, a couple of composers have come up with musical renditions of your speeches, classical and popular. Now that this talent of yours has been discovered, what do you plan do to do with it? SEC. RUMSFELD: What was the last part of that?
Q What do you plan to do with this talent that has come out? SEC. RUMSFELD: Are you talking about that silly compact disc that some opera singer sings my press conferences?
Q There is more than one. (Chuckles.) SEC. RUMSFELD: Are there more than one? (Laughter.)Someone gave me a copy of this thing, and here is this woman with a wonderful voice singing my press conference. (Laughter.) Now, if that doesnât tell you something about the state of the world! (Laughter.) Fatherâs Day is coming.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
04/24/2004 3:39:38 AM ||
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#1
Can anyone get me the name of that album or (please) put a copy of it in kazaa and place the File-name here?
From the "Project for the New American Century". Read the whole of it through the link, Iâm only posting two paragraphs from near the end.
...
We need to fix the situation. It would of course have been better to have planned for higher force levels from the beginning, rather than to have to scramble now, calling forces back from well-earned leaves and disrupting rotations. Had the proper number of forces been in place in Iraq from the beginning, some of the recent violence might have been deterred, or suppressed more speedily. Had the proper number of forces been in place, the military would have been able to act more aggressively and thoroughly to disarm, pacify, and secure Iraq. Instead, we tried to keep a lid on things, while terrorists became better organized and militias became stronger. Had the proper number of forces been in place early on, the looting that did so much damage to Iraqâs infrastructure might have been stopped, munition dumps could have been secured, economic reconstruction would have moved ahead more easily, and more men and resources could have been devoted to the training of Iraqi soldiers. Perhaps we could even have reduced infiltration from Iran, lessening Tehranâs ability to stir up trouble in the south.
Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld famously talks about preparing for the "unknown unknowns." Yet the present crisis was hardly unforeseeable, and Rumsfeld did not ensure that the military was prepared to deal with it. He failed to put in place in Iraq a force big enough to handle the challenges at hand. That is a significant failure, and we do not yet know the price that will be paid for it.
...
Posted by: Aris Katsaris ||
04/24/2004 12:56:15 AM ||
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Don't buy any of it. All of the assumptions in that first para are incorrect, and the analysis of everything since April '03 is wrong. The whole glib false litany we've been getting from the latest fad bandwagon. Almost none of the issues noted were a question of numbers, but of strategic choices and intel. Dumps might have been secured if the entire US armed forces were sent, which still would leave the huge # of pre-collapse caches unaffected. Same #, different choices (smack Sadr early, more carrot/less stick in Sunni heartland past summer/fall, earlier resort to aggressive sweeps, less flaccid policy in the south WRT Iran intel, orgs. like Hezbollah) might have made a difference, but same choices with higher # unlikely to yield much different outcome.
#4
Americans are tired of these "woulda, coulda, shoulda's". This type of second guessing, is not resonating with the majority of the American population.
You are singing to the choir Aris. As each day passes, the country becomes more aware of the threat to our freedoms from Islamic extremists and becomes more committed to the war.
We recognize the spearhead into Baghadad was probably the most bloodless and spectacular victory in recorded history to date. Don't forget - our murder rate here at home is far higher than the death toll in recent months.
From where I sit, the choir is becoming more shrill, but the country is becoming more committed.
I suggest you try a different tactic. This one's not working well.
#5
Aris: How can it be hypocritical since the "Project for the New American Century" weren't the ones that so reduced the military?
Aris is right - this isn't hypocritical. The problem is that it's impractical. Our military expenditures are what they are. We should not increase them - we are not at all-out war, and the deficit is increasing at a tremendous rate. We should not increase taxes - they are too high in the first place, with federal, state and local taxes combined (counting social security and property taxes) at European levels. Expanding the force structure without increasing total expenditures is a way to obsolete our military - it can only be done by starving the equipment procurement machine - the very same machine that allows our forces to prevail at a relatively cost in friendly casualties. It is also the machine that enables us to win the kinds of large scale conventional wars we may fight against potential opponents like China and Russia.
#6
I thought it when I heard the troop numbers initially, before the beginning of the war, it is based in a historical quote. Don't recall who said it originally, general of some stripe . . .
. . . when you are planning a military endeavor and devise the proper number of soldiers . . . double that number and you might be right.
OIW-Too much is never enough. On the other hand . . . did we have it to spare? I do not know enough about existing formations to talk intelligently about what we do or do not have.
Posted by: Benjamin L Silver ||
04/24/2004 12:15 Comments ||
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#7
Again, it doesn't really matter what they coulda, shoulda done. No one cares. We are where we are. There is nothing more annoying than people who sit around and say what we should have done. It's not productive.
American's understand that all contingencies couldn't be planned for. They want to move forward, not sit around and play the blame and shame game. The blame and shame game is the Arab's thing. That's why they are stuck in the year 700. Christianity allowed us to let it go and move forward several thousand years.
Posted by: B ||
04/24/2004 12:27 Comments ||
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#8
"Again, it doesn't really matter what they coulda, shoulda done. No one cares."
They very much *should* care about learning from past mistakes.
"From where I sit, the choir is becoming more shrill, but the country is becoming more committed."
It's very good to become more committed -- but it'd be ever better when one also becomes wiser as well.
"I suggest you try a different tactic. This one's not working well."
If I cared for popularity votes I'd never have come to Rantburg, B.
If you never figure out what went wrong (nobody cares you say?), you are only doomed to repeat it next time around. You may not care about the waste of American lives for little gain, but I most definitely do.
#9
Yeah, sure, Aris. You REALLY care about American lives. Much more than Americans do, uh-huh.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/24/2004 13:29 Comments ||
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#10
Robert Crawford, your belief or disbelief matters to me about as much as B's vote of popularity.
When B says "Don't forget - our murder rate here at home is far higher than the death toll in recent months.", I'd have used the exact same sentence as a reason to care about reducing the murder rate at home. B on the other hand is using it as a reason to not care overmuch about the death toll at Iraq.
#11
He's doing what's called putting things in perspective. No, I don't expect you to understand it.
Your arrogance at presuming to care more about American lives than actual Americans do is breathtaking.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/24/2004 14:03 Comments ||
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#12
"The site I linked to is the definition of "neocon"."
Actually, it's not. It's just the opposite--it's run by William Kristol and Robert Kagan and as such, is the epitome of the "paleocons."
This is another hit piece on Rumsfeld and the way he's been running the Dept. of Defense and the war.
There's nothing wrong with our military--it's the war of hearts, minds and memes here at home that's the problem and criticizing men like Rumsfeld while we're at war is, as Rummy himself would say, "not helpful."
Rumsfeld isn't dumb and if we need more Army divisions and less techno toys, he's doing something about it.
Posted by: Jen ||
04/24/2004 14:04 Comments ||
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#13
Jen--
Weekly Standard is neocon (Irving Kristol is most famous user of name, having written a book about it). Paleocon is Pat Buchanan. I don't think you'll find many pro-war paleocons.
#14
"He's doing what's called putting things in perspective."
The end result is the same -- that he seems to me to feel there aren't enough American casualties that we should feel concerned about them.
"Your arrogance at presuming to care more about American lives than actual Americans do is breathtaking."
Only if I was nationalistic. Which I'm not.
You see, non-nationalistic people are allowed to try and care about people from other nations as much as they care about people from their own. Strange concept, I know, caring about all human lives regardless of nationality.
The same way that non-racist people are allowed to care about the lives of people from other races as much about the lives of people from their own.
Many people here have also cared to presume that they care more about the lives of Iraqis than Saddam did, or about the lives of Palestinians than Hamas or Arafat did. I don't blame them. I am among them.
#15
BMN, true but William Kristol is an odd duck and to call him a "neocon" is being more than generous.
His Conservative ideology isn't all that transparent.
This is a hit piece on Rumsfeld--Trust me.
(I wouldn't put it past Aris Katsaris to be poking sticks at Jews and Zionists by posting this, plus his remarks above about "certain people not caring about the lives of others from other nations or cultures.")
What holier-than-thou drivel, AK!
Mr. Fabulous the Greek cares about everyone!
Well, get a grip, pal!
Americans care about people from all nations and all races.
But they're wearing out their welcome.
When men from other races and nations kill 3,000 of us in an hour and a half on our soil, we tend to get all nationalistic and "rascist" (in the sense that Middle Eastern Muslims are going to get racially-profiled) on your ass in a hurry!
Katsaris, time to piss or get off the pot: Are you an American citizen posting in America or what?
Posted by: Jen ||
04/24/2004 14:31 Comments ||
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#16
"Many people here have also cared to presume that they care more about the lives of Iraqis than Saddam did, or about the lives of Palestinians than Hamas or Arafat did. I don't blame them. I am among them."
P.S. Katsaris:
I do care about the lives of Iraqis.
I do not much care about the lives of Paleostinians; they chose to follow Arafat, believe his lies and do their bit to destroy Israel and the Jews by using terrorist murder.
As such, the "Palestinians" have taken the love of "nationalism" and "rascism" to its ugliest, most murderous and most horrible conclusion which is probably their own elimination and very few, except you, will shed a tear when that happens.
Posted by: Jen ||
04/24/2004 14:37 Comments ||
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#17
"Americans care about people from all nations and all races."
Americans have diverse attitudes, the same way that people of every nationality have diverse attitudes.
That's another bit of nationalistic propaganda, when you try and claim that the attitudes of everyone within a nation are monolithic.
"Are you an American citizen posting in America or what?"
I'm a Greek citizen of Greek nationality posting from Athens, Greece. My apartment is near the borders of Pagkrati, Daphni and the city of Athens proper, three blocks away from the subway station "Agios Ioannis", named after the neighbouring church. The street is Artemonos. I will refrain from giving out the street number. My email address belongs to Otenet.gr, a Greek ISP provider. You can also reach me at my university account at the university of Athens, grad0473@di.uoa.gr. Want my cell phone number?
#18
And Jen, if I had any respect for you, I might be interested in which races and nations you care about and which races and nations you don't.
But then again the fact that you see the accident of descent as a significant criterion on which to judge whether human life has value or not, means by itself that I couldn't have respect for you.
#19
AK, thank you for clearing that up--at least we know.
(Better get your fellow Greeks busy on the Olympic venues--I hear they're far from ready for the Games.)
Americans do care about people from all nations and races, as more than amply illustrated by our free trade, tourism, charitable and missionary giving, and our support of aid and funds to other countries as voted on by our Congress (which we all elect regardless of our "diverse attitudes"), which includes the passage of budgetary items like President Bush's $15 billion AIDS intiative for Africa.
You can hate America and Americans all you want, but it's baseless hatred.
And many Greeks (inter alia) have come here and made great lives for themselves, lives far better than the ones they would have had in Greece.
Posted by: Jen ||
04/24/2004 14:48 Comments ||
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#20
"But then again the fact that you see the accident of descent as a significant criterion on which to judge whether human life has value or not,..."
I have no idea what you mean by this, unless you're trying to give the Paleos a pass because they were "born Palestinian."
The reason I gave for not caring about them was political, i.e. following Arafat and using terror.
Try again, Katsi.
If they were born Paleostinian, then they're "nation" is Jordan.
They know and you know it.
Posted by: Jen ||
04/24/2004 14:52 Comments ||
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#21
Jen> "AK, thank you for clearing that up"
Yeah, it's the very first time I *ever* mention I'm Greek or that I live in Greece, wasn't it?
Pfft.
"Americans do care about people from all nations and races, "
Some Americans do. And some Americans don't. As happens with every people in the world.
And you didn't condemn the followers of Arafat, whether just misguided or true bastards, you condemned the Palestinians as a whole because of what their majority did. That's accident of birth, and whether their nation-state is/should be Jordan or not is quite irrelevant.
#22
In poll after poll taken in the "Palestinian areas," the Paleostianian people have backed, by large majorities, Arafat and given their endorsement of terror attacks by to get what they want.
I'm no rascist and neither is my President nor the foreign policies of my country.
Posted by: Jen ||
04/24/2004 15:04 Comments ||
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#23
So, when you say that you don't care about the lives of Palestinians, you actually mean that you don't care about the lives of the specific people participating in these "large majorities", or are you using the ethnic division as a unit whose members can be judged solely based on the attitude of the majority of that group, whether large or small?
#25
"...neither is my President nor the foreign policies of my country." I never claimed they were."
Actually, you did--by innuendo and implication, you insinuated that I was a racist and a nationalist and so was President Bush, as were our national "policies" as supported by the American electorate.
This is precisely the kind of "reasoning" Osama Bin Laden used when he had America attacked on 9/11 and why he and the other Islamists are still waging a war against us now...because of American "rascist and nationalist" 'policies.'
Posted by: Jen ||
04/24/2004 15:44 Comments ||
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#26
No, by innuendo and implication I claimed *you* were a racist and a nationalist. I am pretty sure I never said anything about Bush or America's foreign policies.
#29
And if I did I dare you to find me a quote that so insinuated it.
(Ofcourse all countries' policies are atleast *some* nationalistic, with the milder meaning of 'nationalistic' as nation-centered. But that'd be a truly weak accusation to make.)
#30
Katsaris, you Greek asshat, I stand with my President and my country for "equal protection and equal rights under the Law" for all.
Posted by: Jen ||
04/24/2004 15:52 Comments ||
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#31
"Katsaris, you Greek asshat, I stand with my President and my country for "equal protection and equal rights under the Law" for all."
Possibly. But if you weren't a nationalist (with the non-mild of meanings) I doubt you would have cared so much about whether I was Greek or not. When I was insulting people which I considered moronic assholes, I don't remember bothering to mention their ethnicities -- because I considered it trivial on the matter of their moronical assholeyness.
#32
B: There is nothing more annoying than people who sit around and say what we should have done.
"What we should have done" will have a big impact on whether (rational) people support the next militaristic endeavor. How many here for instance, would have supported the war in Viet Nam knowing that the outcome would be what it historically turned out to be?
It is too early to tell if Iraq is a big SNAFU, but if it turns out years down the road that it is, my support for any non-defensive military pursuit will be extremely hard to win. I'm sick and tired of half-assed jobs.
The other thing that sickens me is the casual acceptance of casualties as if anything below a pre-determined number is OK. "In Viet Nam we were losing 30 guys a day" so I guess anything below that number in Iraq is OK. Bullshit! How many of the 700 dead soldiers died without firing a single shot, while on patrol, in an ambush? About half. This is a stupid way of waging a war. If I agree with this article it is on the issue that not enough is being done. Either fight or get out.
Posted by: Rafael ||
04/24/2004 21:02 Comments ||
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#33
Remember the total deaths cited also include a few heart attacks from older reservists, disease, car accidents, etc. Not all are combat deaths. And the great majority of combat deaths have been from roadside explosives, not ambushes and firefights.
#34
This is another bogus argument. It doesn't matter whether they say that we need more troops in Iraq or that we need a draft. The stark fact is that Congress sets the troop levels, not the Executive Branch. If they want more troops, they should authorize and fund a larger force structure. Until they do or advocate that, they should just STFU.
The country is in flames! Actually, most of the country continues to rebuild and is at peace. The fighting is restricted to a few areas, but this is where the reporters and cameras go. Construction and commerce do not make for dramatic news stories and so are rarely covered. The Iraqis who are causing all the commotion are the same ones who have been using their guns to threaten other Iraqis as well. Coalition attempts to deal with this are being condemned as oppressive to all Iraqis. But unless the warlords (Saddam followers wanting to regain power, or Islamic radical Shias who want the country run by clergy) can be defeated and disarmed, Iraq will never no peace. The coalition hoped this day of reckoning could be put off until the Iraqis held elections, and could do it themselves. The warlords were not willing to wait for that.
American are hated in Iraq! Not according to the polls that have been conducted, nor according to the experience of most Americans working in Iraq. But a lot of Iraqis, especially those who used to work for Saddam, or who want to set up an Islamic theocracy, donât like the Americans and their "alien" ideas about democracy and rule of law. If someone hates you, itâs a good idea to find out why. But most Americans get their news from the mass media, which is more interested in âwowâ than âwhy.â
U.S. troops are fed up with the war and leaving in droves! New recruits, and people wanting to stay in are at record levels in the armed forces. This applies to reservists as well as active duty troops. The Department of Defense regularly releases data on recruiting and re-enlistments, and they have been up since before September 11, 2001. But since the war on terror began, the numbers have increased still more. The air force and navy are even conducting layoffs.
The Iraqi Governing Council is despised by most Iraqis! Any 25 Iraqi leaders would be despised by most of the population. The 25 members of the Iraqi Governing Council were selected by the coalition to help run things until elections could be held. Members were selected from all of the ethnic and religious groups in the country. Each member has a large constituency. But Iraq has lots of constituencies, including over a hundred tribes and dozens of religious leaders with large followings. The country has not allowed any party politics for over four decades. You need more than 25 members of a government to even begin to cover the demands of all the constituencies for representation. Even after the elections, Iraq will have more than 25 organized factions competing with each other.
The U.S. Army doesnât have enough troops to handle current combat operations! Although combat commanders feel that "too much ainât enough" when it comes to troops, they learn how to go with what they got. The last two weeks of violence in Iraq were suppressed with available combat troops, and more were called for in case the violence returned on a grander scale (an unlikely event, as more became known about who was behind the current attacks on Iraqis, foreign aid workers and coalition troops). For example, three battalions of marines dealing with Fallujah, and available troops were able to suppress the al Sadr militias within two weeks. Sending more troops wonât help with the basic problem; gathering intelligence. That requires people speak Arabic and have police experience. More American troops wonât solve that problem, more trained Iraqi police will.
The effort in Iraq detracts from the war on terror! Arab countries are where al Qaeda comes from, they were just using Afghanistan as a base. Invading Iraqi forced al Qaeda to come and defend itâs Arabian heartland. The Iraq operations inflamed al Qaeda members in Saudi Arabia to start attacking Saudis and other Arabs. This cost al Qaeda a lot of support among Arabs, and would not have happened if Iraq were not invaded. The war on terror is mainly a police and intelligence function. The troops that are needed most for counter-terrorism are special operations (Special Forces and commandoes.) Special operations forces were pulled out of Afghanistan for the Iraq campaign, but most of the action in Afghanistan is best handled by regular coalition troops, Afghans and the Pakistanis. After 2001, the war in Afghanistan was mainly political, not military. Special Forces troops specialize in a particular part of the world, and they are all over the planet chasing down terrorists. The war in Iraq gave the Special Forces an opportunity to work intensively, and without restraint, in an Arab country.
U.S. Army should be expanded! It takes several years to recruit new troops, train them and organize them into new units. By then, the army leadership feels they wonât be needed. But the army will still have to pay for them. This will mean less money for training and new weapons and equipment. To the army leadership, that strategy will get more soldiers killed in combat in the long run. The basic problem is that you cannot expand the army quickly and still have the same highly effective professional troops.
Iraqi army should not have been disbanded after Saddam fell! The Iraqi army has been, for over half a century, the chief source of tyranny and oppression in the country. Army commanders overthrew the government time after time, and used their soldiers to brutalize the population. By keeping all, or part, of the army intact, and armed, coalition risked a quick return of the warlord attitude that gave the Iraqi people dictators like Saddam (and several others who preceded him.) Saddamâs innovation was to establish the Republican Guard as a force to keep the army from overthrowing him. Saddam also freely fired, or executed, army officers who appeared likely to try and stage a coup. And there were several coup attempts by army officers, even in the face of Saddamâs secret police and Republican Guard. Keeping the old Iraqi army in business was just asking for more trouble.
Iraqi security and army troops, and police cannot be relied on! About half the police and security troops have worked well with coalition troops when put under pressure (attacked by al Sadr militia or Sunni gangs). Another 40 percent simply fled and about ten percent went over to the rebels. This was because the screening and training process for Iraqi police and security troops is still a work in progress. The sad truth is that Iraq never had a real police force. What was called police took care of traffic control and low level crime. There was little training for the police. The population was controlled via secret police terror and a huge system of informers. All this was backed up by the Republican Guard. The army and police were never trusted and were terrorized as well. So it was realized, even before the invasion, that the police force and army would have to rebuilt from scratch. And thatâs been going on for a year. It will take years to create a professional police force and army. The old Iraqi police and army were accustomed to corrupt practices (bribes and personal influence) rather than evenhanded application of the law. Eliminating the bad habits takes time. Meanwhile, the only way law and order will return to Iraq is via a professional police and security force. Foreign troops cannot do this.
Keeping all Baath Party members out of the new government was a mistake! All Baath Party members were barred from government jobs after Saddam was topped for the simple reason that the vast majority of the Iraqi people hated the Baath Party. The Baath Party, like the Communist and Nazi party earlier in the century, was a political movement that controlled the nation by demanding that all key positions (management, government, academic, judicial) be held by members of the party. You had to prove to local party members that you would be a loyal Baathist before you were admitted to the party. After that, you could pursue your career. But the party had the right to call on you to do whatever the party needed done. That could include being an informer, or murder of âan enemy of the party.â Many people who joined the Baath Party just for career reasons, later fled the country when the party asked them to do something vile (from being an informer to participating in some bit of terrorism to control the population.) But most stayed, cultivated their career and just hoped the party never called on them to be a bastard. When the Baath party was thrown out, Iraqis knew which Baathists were bastards and which were just opportunists. The former were often war criminals, but the latter were also hated for their opportunism and lack of scruples. Many Iraqis refused to join the Baath party, and accepted career damage in doing so. As a result, all Baath Party members were seen as tainted. Unfortunately, many of them are skilled administrators and professionals. From the beginning, some key professionals were allowed back on the job even though they had been in the Baath Party. This was always done at some cost, for there were always other Iraqis who were quite bitter about any Baath Party member being back in a position of authority. This situation will continue for a generation.
Posted by: tipper ||
04/24/2004 12:19:35 AM ||
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#3
..This is by the inimitable Jim Dunnigan, who almost gave Tom Brokaw apoplexy during Desert Storm - there are a lot of people online who pretend to understand the military, he does.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
04/24/2004 1:54 Comments ||
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#4
Whoa! Most Baathists were members of convenience. What G.W. Bush, and his near-sighted ersatz-prophet - Victor Davis Hanson - implemented and support in Iraq, is the effective abolishment of secularism. GWB, an impulsive, rhetoric intoxicated over-achiever, created a power vacuum that Islamofascists filled. Do not mistake one-time elections for democracy.
Yeah, I know most posters here oppose scrutiny of GWB. However, it is a fact that last week he allowed Iranian Shiites to attempt to broker a status quo peace with al-Sadr's animals. And he did that after Ayatollah Rafsanjani fatwahed at a Friday pray meeting, ordering al-Sadr to attack the "wounded American animal." Say it: Bush blew it; VDH is a fellatial gas-bag.
Posted by: Man Bites Dog ||
04/24/2004 5:52 Comments ||
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Most baathists weere NOT members of convienience. THe loyalty tests, vetting and repressive security measures for anyone as low as local leadership positions was pretty thorough. And very harsh if there was even a percieved slight defect in loyalty to the Party and Saddam.
GWB is not an "intoxicated" anything - nice slur there, cannot defeat the logic so you slime the person - shows the lack of reasoning ability in your position.
Overachiever? Probably. He got where he is by effective management, delegation and then making decisions under risk with analysis. Just the sort of things they teach when you get an MBA. No "Gentleman's C" exist in the graduate schools.
THe "Power Vacuum" was not created. It was set up prior to the war by the Iranian IRG who set Sadr up with the Mahdi Army, and by Hezbollah, and Saddam himself with the Feydayeen Saddam and their pipelining of Hamas and Hezbolla foreign fighers since BEFORE the war started.
As for the Shia negotiating - its the LOCAL leadership in the town that are attempting to negotiate the surrender of the heavy weapons of the mostly FOREIGN fighers in their city - the locals are trying to save their city from being crushed between the Marines and the Syrians/Iranias/Paleos/etc that are there. Isnt liberation supposed to be about giving these peopel a chance to determine their future? Seems we shoudl give them a chance to save thier own town from the terrorist who threaten local police and families with death, and who also are trying to bait the Marines into destructive combat in the city.
Seems the one who blew it is you, and the fellatial gas-bag here is you MBD.
Now go prattle elsewhere before I beat the dog sh*t out out you again (verbally). Your lies will not stand here.
#8
Old Spook:
Learn to spell, moron. It will help you think.
Those who matter:
You need to ask yourselves if GWB's nation-building plan can work, in context of his suicidal indulgence of Iranian intervention in Iraq, which has now turned into open subversion. On April 9, Iranian Executive Council power-man, Rafsanjani, fatwahed an order to al-Sadr (who he met in June 2003) to "punish the wounded American animal." He could only do that because he knew that the "faith based" jackass in the White House, will continue to indulge Shiite beligerence. The "axis of evil" should be re-named "axis of hollow-rhetoric."
Cut the self-denial crap. The Democratic Presidential campaign is still in the Meet-Kerry stage. And they are already neck-and-neck with GWBs "faith based" squanderers. No matter what human doormats like VDH spew, the $150,000,000,000 spent on Iraq is a bill-of-goods unless Iran is kept away from the 90% of the Mideast oil fields that are in Shiite majority areas. Congress members saw GWB's inept Press Conference last week, and they know a dead duck when they see one. They will force the oil-patch rich brat's hand.
Let this fact impact on your brains: American taxpayers are not going to shell out a trillion dollars for a Shiite-Iraq, controlled by Iran. GWB/VDH can shove this CPA plan up their crappers:
http://www.cpa-iraq.org/regulations/index.html#Orders
Say it: Bush Blew It!
Posted by: Man Bites Dog ||
04/24/2004 15:49 Comments ||
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#9
Picking on my typing skills instead of addressing the facts. How droll.
Whats the matter sonny, Victor far too skilled for you to counter? Is that why you spew so much venom (and what little brainpower you have) to engage in calling him names instead of addressing his reasoning?
First off, let this impact your tightly closed mind: the Shia are not in rebellion. Get the facts, not what you imagine to be the case. Become informed before you speak. Talk to someone over there. I have. It is only in a few cities and concentrated in a few neighborhoods. Around the Mosque in Al Kut, the NW part of Fallujah (mainly Syrians there from what I hear), and a few spots throughout the *SUNNI* triangle area. The trouble is coming mainly from a few funded and trained Iranian groups, and some Syrians and the remnants of the Fedahyeen Saddam Baathists.
Secondly, why are you attacking "faith"? You sound like one of those bigoted anti-religious folk who sneer down their noses at anyone of any faith, but especially so at Christians.
Thirdly, your continued use of pejoratives toward President Bush and others brands you not only as a fool, but a rather cowardly one. Stooping to namecalling ("jackass", "doormat") shows your lack of ability to counter the rhetoric flowing from the other side of the argument - basically it shows that you are intellectually bankrupt. Hows it feel to have revealed that you have nothing in your core position other than grammar school namecalling?
Fourth - I notice you didnt address any of the arguments and facts that I raised - whats wrong, you don't want to address them for fear that you will have to admit that you are wrong? Too bad - you are wrong whetehr you admit it or not - the only difference is whether you continue to delude yoruself into believing what you post is anywhere near reality.
Try addressing the facts. Try finding fault in the reasoning. Try proposing a solution that will work. (none of which you have done at all).
Cite and link to the Fatwha that you claim, from a credible source. The best I can find on that quote given is that it was a political comment, not a fatwha. (And FYI, fatwha is not a verb).
Post facts and proper inferences to support your supposition that peopel assume President Bush to be a "dead duck".
Post a "fisking" refutation of Victor David Hanson's scholarly essays.
I bet you do not - mainly because you are incapable of doing so. The only self delusion here is yours - believeing that you can win an argument when you are comitting fallacy after fallacy, and imparting as much reasoning and information as a chimp. Your level of intellectual discourse is about equivalent to that of a small simian flinging feces at those superior to it.
Your posts are typical of feebleminded people like you MBD. You've shown a stunning lack of intellectual ability and rational capacity. And you compounded it with your replies. Thanks for revealing that not only do you lack the fundamental knowledge that woudl indicate intelligence, you also lack the ability reason with what few poor assumptions you do hold dear.
In sum, as I have pointed out, you've done a marvelous job of demonstrating the behavior of a vacuous worthless shell of a human. I truly pity you if you really believe the bilge you post.
Say it MDB - you just got gobsmacked again, and YOU blew it, you are the fellatial gasbag you claim others to be.
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