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Pakistan: U.S. Missile Kills 32 Hard Boyz
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
Page 2: WoT Background
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Africa Horn
Global warming Carjacking, abductions impede Darfur aid
Car-jackings, abductions and ambushes are hindering aid workers involved the world's biggest humanitarian relief effort in Sudan's violent Darfur region, a U.N. report obtained by Reuters on Monday said. A record 68 aid vehicles were ambushed
by hurricanes
in the first five months of 2007 and 23 of those attacks involved
partially melted glaciers looking for a little payback
abductions, the U.N. security report said. "The trend is still going upwards," it added. "Altogether 77 humanitarian workers have been abducted
at mercury-filled thermometer-point after the average daily temperature rose one-half of one degree over a period of fifteen years
in that way." In April, five Senegalese African Union peacekeepers were killed
by displaced, disoriented Monarch butterflies
during a car-jacking. The struggling mission has had dozens of vehicles stolen as it has become a target for warring factions in the
incandescent light bulb factory
rebellion in the remote west of Sudan. The report said there was a high risk of
unseasonably cold weather with a chance of a rare hard frost
being injured in the confrontations between car-jackers and security forces or in car chases or by being abandoned without
fair trade shade-grown coffee
communications gear, water or protection. Those abducted are usually released unharmed but it is "a traumatic experience that leaves psychological scars", it said.
Rather an inconvenient truth, ain't it?
Posted by: Seafarious || 06/19/2007 01:59 || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under: Janjaweed

#1  Somebody needs to tell those people to watch out for rapidly rising sea levels too. Those damned things will sneak up on you and get all over you like an animal.
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 06/19/2007 8:35 Comments || Top||

#2  Monarch Butterflies - Why do they hate us?
Posted by: Admiral Allan Ackbar || 06/19/2007 9:08 Comments || Top||

#3  Surf's up in Darfur.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 06/19/2007 12:38 Comments || Top||


Sudan ready for Darfur peace talks, says minister
Sudan is ready to attend Darfur peace talks under joint United Nations-African Union mediation to resolve a conflict that has driven 2,5-million people from their homes, its foreign minister said on Monday.

The rebels have split into more than a dozen groups since a peace deal last year signed by only one of three rebel negotiating factions. Many leaders have lost control of their commanders on the ground, creating a chaotic and dangerous environment for aid workers and peacekeepers.

"Any time they want the peace talks to start, we have always been ready," Foreign Minister Lam Akol told reporters. "The problem is with the other side."

The AU-UN initiative hopes to have all factions lined up to begin talks by about August. The former UN humanitarian chief in Sudan, Manuel Aranda da Silva, has said the rebels do not have to unite, but should have a unified position before talks.

Aid workers involved in the world's largest humanitarian operation say an agreement is a priority to create an effective ceasefire. Some have worried about slow progress to bring all factions to the table.

One aid official, who declined to be named, said international mediators should be based in Khartoum to be most effective, not just jetting in and out on short missions.

UN special envoy Jan Eliasson, a Swede, appointed Finn Pekka Haavisto to assist him. But Haavisto, like Eliasson, has decided to be based outside Sudan.

"They need to be based here to fully engage in this process and to understand all the stakeholders," said the aid worker.

Peacekeeping plan
International experts estimate 200 000 have died in more than four years of conflict in Darfur, violence Washington calls genocide. Khartoum rejects the term and puts the death toll at 9 000.

The conflict flared when mostly non-Arab rebels took up arms in early 2003 accusing the central government of neglecting the remote, arid Western region. Khartoum mobilised militias to quell the revolt.

The UN Security Council visited Khartoum on Sunday and said it was satisfied that Sudan had unconditionally accepted a joint UN-AU peacekeeping force of at least 20 000 troops and police and would recommend to the general assembly to fund the mission.

Foreign Minister Akol said the meeting was constructive and that all sides were in agreement, even over command and control of the force, which had been unclear.

"The commander is African," Akol said. "The [command and control] structures that are followed by the UN are the ones that we have agreed would be adopted by the AU."

"So we say the command and control structures are the UN," he added.

Diplomats said China, India and Pakistan had indicated interest in contributing to the force. Akol said those nations were friends of Sudan, but that the final decision would be up to the UN and AU.

"They have expressed interest within the hybrid operation," said Akol. "All of them are friends to Sudan -- I don't think we have anything against them."

He added the UN contingents of the joint force would wear blue helmets and the Africans, green. But all the troops would wear green AU badges.
Posted by: Fred || 06/19/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under: Govt of Sudan


Britain
Introducing the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain
For Sgt. Mom and our own dear Apostate, and for all the rest of us who have been waiting impatiently for those born Muslim to openly reject the fanatics in their midst.
There is an immense difference between understanding something with one's head, and understanding it with one's guts. Think of the phrase, "the courage of one's convictions". This week the true meaning of these words, hitherto eroded into a flat nap-worn cliche by overuse and misuse, comes home with the force of a kick in the belly. For on Thursday June 21 in London, a group of people are going to take a stand for their principles in a way that involves real courage, admirable courage, and which at the same time lights a torch of hope in a dark quadrant of the world's affairs.

The occasion is the launch of the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain, following the establishment of such groups elsewhere in Europe, notably Germany and Scandinavia.
Here in North America, there are groups speaking out in Canada and the U.S.
The British branch is led by the outstanding Maryam Namazie, Iranian-born champion of (among other things) human rights, women, and refugees from religious persecution. The manifesto of the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain eloquently speaks for itself, and I hope Maryam Namazie and her fellow-members of the council will not mind if I quote it here in full, because it deserves the widest publicity, not least because the 10 demands appended to it constitute a bill of rights which is absolutely necessary for everyone, non-religious and otherwise, to adopt and observe now that the world is again experiencing, with such bitterness, widespread religion-generated difficulties.

One point that has to be kept in mind here, because it illuminates the following document with the burning light of urgency, is this: apostasy (abandoning one's religion) by a Muslim is to this day regarded as a crime punishable by death in countries governed by Islamic law (it once likewise invited death in Christianity). This is why the council is the embodiment of courage, and why the principles in its 10 demands are so vital.
Manifesto of the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain

We, non-believers, atheists, and Ex-Muslims, are establishing or joining the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain to insist that no one be pigeonholed as Muslims with culturally relative rights nor deemed to be represented by regressive Islamic organisations and "Muslim community leaders".

Those of us who have come forward with our names and photographs represent countless others who are unable or unwilling to do so because of the threats faced by those considered "apostates" - punishable by death in countries under Islamic law.

By doing so, we are breaking the taboo that comes with renouncing Islam but also taking a stand for reason, universal rights and values, and secularism.

Whilst religion or the lack thereof is a private affair, the increasing intervention of and devastation caused by religion and particularly Islam in contemporary society has necessitated our public renunciation and declaration. We represent a majority in Europe and a vast secular and humanist protest movement in countries like Iran.

Taking the lead from the Central Council of Ex-Muslims in Germany, we demand:

1) Universal rights and equal citizenship for all. We are opposed to cultural relativism and the tolerance of inhuman beliefs, discrimination and abuse in the name of respecting religion or culture.

2) Freedom to criticise religion. Prohibition of restrictions on unconditional freedom of criticism and expression using so-called religious "sanctities".

3) Freedom of religion and atheism.

4) Separation of religion from the state and legal and educational system.

5) Prohibition of religious customs, rules, ceremonies or activities that are incompatible with or infringe people's rights and freedoms.

6) Abolition of all restrictive and repressive cultural and religious customs which hinder and contradict women's independence, free will and equality. Prohibition of segregation of sexes.

7) Prohibition of interference by any authority, family members or relatives, or official authorities in the private lives of women and men and their personal, emotional and sexual relationships and sexuality.

8) Protection of children from manipulation and abuse by religion and religious institutions.

9) Prohibition of any kind of financial, material or moral support by the state or state institutions to religion and religious activities and institutions.

10) Prohibition of all forms of religious intimidation and threats.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/19/2007 16:10 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under: Global Jihad

#1  Introducing the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain

Posted by: Zenster || 06/19/2007 16:50 Comments || Top||

#2  Lotsa good stuff here, but some slippery slope stuff too. Look at point 8. I send my daughter to a Catholic school. Is she being "manipulated"? Some would surely think so. That said, I am pleased to see a group like this stand up. I would prefer to see a group of active Muzzies stand up and say that several core tenets of our religion HAVE to change, otherwise we are quitting. Hey, they could quit become Episcopalians...the rules there seem somewhat...malleable. (Please note that I attend the Episcopalian church, but find I have to hold my nose frequently.)
Posted by: remoteman || 06/19/2007 17:08 Comments || Top||

#3  Zen, don't be so cynical.

Another less cynical approach...

There are a lot of former muslims that have their head screwed on right. That is, they are able to think and form logical conclusions. It may as well have a component of betting on a strong horse... the initial impetus that may have been at the beginning of their departure from Islam. They must see that Islam is coming to closure and it is in death throes. Trashing about, it has still enough strength to wreak havoc here and there, but ultimately, it is dying. Itself (as ummah) it does not know it yet and perpetuates it own delusions but many former muslims see clearly the sign on the wall.

We can only hope that there is enough of them coming out into open that they may influence or provide a moral support for others that are less brave, and that their numbers would increase in more than linear progression.

It is one of the factors that may influence the duration and casualty list of this war.
Posted by: twobyfour || 06/19/2007 18:26 Comments || Top||

#4  We can only hope that there is enough of them coming out into open that they may influence or provide a moral support for others that are less brave, and that their numbers would increase in more than linear progression.

Sorry, pal. I'm an optimist but in no way do I have any confidence that Islam will manage to reform itself significantly enough to avoid self-imposed extermination. We're talking almost SIX YEARS after the 9-11 atrocities and the number of protesting Muslims amounts to zilch.

Sure, I like the notion that some Muslims are brave enough to exit the closet and declare their opposition to Islam's Neanderthal dogma. Anti-Islamic propaganda needs all the help it can get with increasing public awareness about the threat. That in no way changes how important it is to catastrophically disassemble this shitwagon of a political ideology, STAT. Theocracy of any make or label needs to be demolished post haste. It is absolute poison and should not be tolerated by the civilized world.
Posted by: Zenster || 06/19/2007 19:01 Comments || Top||

#5  Zen, I were talking NOT about reforming Islam (a futile exercise--one can deprogram cultists but not a cult), but about EXITING it.
Posted by: twobyfour || 06/19/2007 19:11 Comments || Top||

#6  I think that there are more of these folks than we know. But it will take locals horrors happening before they sign on.
Posted by: Thinemp Whimble || 06/19/2007 20:33 Comments || Top||

#7  Zen, I were talking NOT about reforming Islam (a futile exercise--one can deprogram cultists but not a cult), but about EXITING it.

Fear not, twobyfour, you were not at all unclear. My point remains that far too many Muslims simply will not—by choice or compulsion—rise up against Islam's clerical elite and break their own ideological chains. The West is in no way obliged to sympathize with their bulk subscription to such an auto-destruct sequence. We have one—and only one—mandate, eliminate the threat. Since the Koran itself, along with all who even marginally adhere to it, represent both a retrograde force and fundamentally lethal toxin to over a thousand years of governmental progress, there can be no respite granted in our pursuit of simple survival.

Speaking as a scientific agnostic, I find little objection with Muslims converting to Christianity or other more tolerant faiths. I welcome and encourage abandonment of such a death oriented cult in the largest scale possible. However, there is absolutely NOTHING which gives me any confidence—short of an entirely improbable wholesale migration away from the Koran's suicidal dictates—that will provide the least insurance against continued assaults upon the West. For that reason I am resolutely committed to a catastrophic disassembly of Islam at the soonest possible opportunity.
Posted by: Zenster || 06/19/2007 21:10 Comments || Top||


China-Japan-Koreas
North Korea 'plans to shut N-reactor in July'
Posted by: Fred || 06/19/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [8 views] Top|| File under:

#1  North Korea 'plans to shut N-reactor in July

July of 2015 but who's keeping track?
Posted by: Zenster || 06/19/2007 0:02 Comments || Top||

#2  When they do, if they do, hand 'em a suitcase full of c-notes...
Posted by: Elmagum Ghibelline3832 || 06/19/2007 2:01 Comments || Top||

#3  North Korea 'plans to shut N-reactor in July

The Reactor needs sum real Bubble gum and Duct tape work, poor Kimmy's expenses are cutting into his walk around Scotch money.
Posted by: Red Dawg || 06/19/2007 2:11 Comments || Top||

#4  ...and re-open as soon as Kim is back from St. Tropez in August.
Posted by: Jack is Back! || 06/19/2007 10:06 Comments || Top||

#5  "When they do, if they do, hand 'em a suitcase full of c-notes..." - Kim doesn't need the c-notes. He makes his own.
Posted by: Super Hose || 06/19/2007 22:58 Comments || Top||


India-Pakistan
Gorkhas won’t fight for India, says Maoist leader
The elite Gorkhas of the Indian Army, renowned for their bravery, may soon disappear if Nepal's Maoists have their way.

The Maoists are strongly opposed to Nepali youth fighting on behalf of foreign countries. "It is totally wrong for our (Nepali) young men to be sacrificing their lives to protect the sovereignty of other countries," Baburam Bhattarai, Nepal's senior Maoist leader, told HT on Tuesday.

Bhattarai said that the Maoists have been opposing the recruitment of Nepali youth into the Indian and British armies since 1996. With Maoists now part of the ruling eight party alliance, they intend to press harder to stop the practice.

There are over 35,000 Gorkha soldiers in the Indian army, 80 to 85 per cent of whom are Nepali nationals.

A senior Army officer told HT in Delhi that despite the provocative statements made by Maoist leaders now and in the past, the rules for recruitment of Gorkhas in the Indian Army remain unchanged.

As for the British Army, Gorkhas have been joining it for the last 191 years, ever since the Anglo-Nepal war ended. They have been awarded 13 Victoria Crosses.

General VP Malik, army chief during the Kargil war, lauded the courage shown by the 1/11 Gorkha Rifles in his book Kargil: From Surprise to Victory: "After climbing up a mountainside for seven hours, the Gorkhas reached their objective on the ridge. Some of the most heroic deeds of valour were witnessed in this part of the battle…"

The unit earned bravery 29 awards and was conferred with the title "bravest of the brave".
Posted by: John Frum || 06/19/2007 17:34 || Comments || Link || [16 views] Top|| File under:

#1  As they say, be careful what you wish for...

Sure, let's gather all Gurkhas in Nepal, and kick the Maoists' ass for good and evah.

Posted by: twobyfour || 06/19/2007 18:29 Comments || Top||

#2  Heh, what 2x4 said. Bring 'em home for a rest.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/19/2007 19:47 Comments || Top||

#3  Lafayete Escadrill
Lincoln Brigade
Eagle Squadron
American Volunteer Group (the McCoy)

We've done it too, just short-term.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/19/2007 19:51 Comments || Top||

#4  I'm so the "no exciting jobs for Nepalese youth" will go down a treat.

P.S. If you're hungry in London
http://www.gurkhasdiner.co.uk/Introduction.htm
Posted by: Bright Pebbles || 06/19/2007 23:31 Comments || Top||


Nishtar Park case : Accused remanded in police custody till Saturday
Two men accused of the Nishtar Park suicide bombing as claimed by the Karachi police, were remanded to the custody of the Investigation police till June 23 by Administrative Judge for Anti-Terrorism Courts (ATCs) Justice Qaiser Iqbal Monday.

Earlier, the accused - Mufti Zakir Hussain Siddiqui and Rehmatullah alias Rehmat - were produced before the Administrative Judge under extra-ordinary security. They were brought to the court just before 1:00 p.m. in separate Armored Personnel Carriers backed up by a heavy police contingent. The other accused shown as absconders are Amanullah, Qari Abid Iqbal, Khalid alias Abrar, Sultan and Muhammad Amin.

Muhammad Siddique from the NWFP village of Sarai Kamashi was alleged to be the suicide bomber who blew himself at Maghreb prayers at the park. The entire top leadership of the Sunni Tehrik was wiped out in the attack in addition to many prominent social and political figures on 12th Rabi-ul-Awwal, (April 11, 2006) in the jurisdiction of PS Soldier Bazaar.

A case was lodged on a complaint by one of the organizers Muhammad Altaf Qadri. More than 50 people died in the attack.

The police are seeking twelve-day remand of the accused till June 29 for which they stated that the accused confessed to their involvement in the tragedy and also spilled the beans on the conspiracy, planning and execution. Remand papers were silent about how, where and when the accused were nabbed. After perusing the remand papers, the judge, remanded the accused to police custody till June 23.
Posted by: Fred || 06/19/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under: Taliban


Pakistani parliament protests honour for Rushdie
ISLAMABAD - Pakistan’s parliament has condemned the award of a British knighthood to author Salman Rushdie, whose novel ‘The Satanic Verses’ outraged many Muslims around the world, and said Britain should withdraw the honour.

Pakistan’s lower house of parliament adopted a resolution condemning the award. ‘This is a source of hurt for Muslims and will encourage people to commit blasphemy against the Prophet Mohammad,’ Minister for Parliamentary Affairs Sher Afgan Khan Niazi told parliament. ‘We demand Britain desist from such actions and withdraw the title of knighthood,’ he said.

Farhana Khalid Binori, a Pakistani woman member of parliament from a conservative religious party, said Rushdie’s knighthood was an insult. ‘It is a slap on the face of Muslims. It is not acceptable at all,’ she said.
Posted by: Steve White || 06/19/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [11 views] Top|| File under: Global Jihad

#1  Pakistani parliament protests honour for Rushdie

good gawd these paki pols are worser than ours....

[reflects..]

... murtha, reid, pelosi, skerry, hellary, boxer, bush, arlen spector, leahy, durbin, ted 'the lush' kennedy, schumer...

[/reflects..]

OMG what waz I stinking!
NAW no way I apologize, ima getting sick now...
Posted by: Red Dawg || 06/19/2007 2:32 Comments || Top||

#2  Rushdie’s knighthood was an insult.

Ab-so-fucking-lutely! He oughta been made Supreme Emperor of All Muslim Lands™ so he could pimpslap the entire bunch of these whingeing pansy-ass lily livered tantrum-prone layabout nancyboys hard enough that they'd be looking for their teeth half a yard up queer street.
Posted by: Zenster || 06/19/2007 4:52 Comments || Top||

#3  Exactly why there's never been a muslim Shakespeare/Voltaire/Joyce let alone a Wilde.
Posted by: Howard UK || 06/19/2007 6:42 Comments || Top||

#4  woman member of parliament from a conservative religious party
say it ain't so - youse represented by wymyns?
Posted by: Spot || 06/19/2007 8:32 Comments || Top||

#5  thisislondon.com has a picture of Rushdie with his wife who is kinda hot. She's a couple of inches taller than he is and more than a few years younger. Showing some skin too in a most unIslamic manner. It's enough to give hope to fat old bald guys the whole world over.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 06/19/2007 14:51 Comments || Top||

#6  I gotta get me a copy of that book. Anything that pisses them off that bad must be good.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 06/19/2007 14:53 Comments || Top||

#7  ooops...it's thisislondon.co.uk. How American of me.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 06/19/2007 14:57 Comments || Top||

#8  BOO HOO!

C'mon, cry me a river. Make it deep and wide!
Posted by: mojo || 06/19/2007 15:25 Comments || Top||

#9  I thought The Satanic Verses was actually rather dull, Ebbang Uluque6305. I don't think it would have sold well were it not for the fatwa.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/19/2007 16:27 Comments || Top||

#10  From Ebbang Uluque6305's link:
Labour's Lord Ahmed expressed surprise at the decision to give a knighthood to Rushdie, who was placed under a fatwa, or death sentence, by Iranian leader Ayatollah Khomeini 18 years ago after the publication of the allegedly blasphemous The Satanic Verses.

"I was appalled to hear Salman Rushdie had been given a knighthood," Lord Ahmed said.

"Two weeks ago the Prime Minister was calling for building relations between the Muslim world and Britain, then suddenly this knighthood is given to a man who has not only been abusive to Muslims, but also to Christians - because he used abusive language towards Jesus Christ."

He said whoever had made the decision had made Gordon Brown's job very difficult as he takes over as Prime Minister.

"The confidence that was being built within Britain with inter-faith work and community cohesion work has once again been damaged because of this provocative decision.

"This man not only provoked violence around the world because of his writings, but there were many people who were killed around the world.

"Forgiving and forgetting is one thing, but honouring the man who has blood on his hands, sort of, because of what he did, I think is going a bit too far."

Not quite got that "freedom of Speech" part clear as of yet, eh Lord Ahmed? Here's a clue for you, go piss up a rope. In light of Rushdie's somewhat marginal accomplishments, I'd have to agree with other critics of his and suppose that this entire affair amounts to a pimpslap for Islam by Britain's royal family. With each ensuing bit of further crapulence, slowly but surely Islam issues its own death fatwa.
Posted by: Zenster || 06/19/2007 17:16 Comments || Top||

#11  a pimpslap for Islam by Britain's royal family

That's my take on it too. I've always admired Queen Elizabeth.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 06/19/2007 18:05 Comments || Top||

#12  Anything that pisses them off that bad must be good.

It's damn near unreadable.
Posted by: Pappy || 06/19/2007 21:47 Comments || Top||

#13  A n y t h i n g ... t h a t ... p i s s e s ... t h e m ... o f f ... t h a t ... b a d ... m u s t ... b e ... g o o d.

A l l ... b e t t e r, ... P a p p y ?
Posted by: Zenster || 06/19/2007 22:18 Comments || Top||

#14  Forget Rushdie. What will the Pakistanis do when they discover that Meatloaf was knighted. I mean, that can't be halal.
Posted by: Super Hose || 06/19/2007 22:34 Comments || Top||


Pakistan ranked 12th among 'failed states'
Pakistan has been ranked the 12th most unstable country in the world – worse even than North Korea at 13th – in the 2007 Failed State Index issued on Monday by Foreign Policy magazine and the Fund for Peace.

For the second year in a row, Sudan tops the index, largely because of the humanitarian catastrophe in Darfur. Iraq now ranks as the second most unstable country and Afghanistan the eighth. The other seven countries in the top 10 are all in Africa. They include Somalia, Zimbabwe, the Ivory Coast and Congo. The index of 177 countries gives each country points out of 10 for 12 “social indicators of instability”, with higher scores indicating greater instability. Pakistan’s highest scores were for ‘security apparatus’ (9.5), ‘factionalised elites’ (9.5) and ‘group grievance’ (9.0). Its best score was for the economy (5.8).

Iraq fell from fourth place last year to second. “The report tells us that Iraq is sinking fast,” said Fund for Peace President Pauline Baker, according to the Washington Post. “We believe it’s reached the point of no return. We have recommended—based on studies done every six months since the US invasion—that the administration face up to the reality that the only choices for Iraq are how and how violently it will break up.” In a parallel series of reports, the Fund for Peace, a research and advocacy group, suggests a policy of managed partition for Iraq. The experiences of Iraq, as well as Afghanistan, show that billions of dollars in aid may be futile unless accompanied by a functioning government.
Posted by: Fred || 06/19/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hé hé, nice pic. Anyway, at least they're not 13th, I mean, that would have been bad luck, wouldn't it?
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 06/19/2007 3:35 Comments || Top||

#2  How come the US isn't even in the top ten? We're being dissed!
Posted by: Harry Reid || 06/19/2007 7:19 Comments || Top||

#3  Where's the fatwa?
Posted by: Raj || 06/19/2007 8:20 Comments || Top||

#4  These Joos "forget" Chimpy McHitlerburton's Climate War on the Democrat congressional districts of New Orleans.

/various House Democrats
Posted by: Excalibur || 06/19/2007 8:44 Comments || Top||

#5  That would explain why the Pakistani police are rioting against each other link

Hundreds of police from Pakistan's Punjab province went on a rampage against their Islamabad counterparts Tuesday to protest the death of a fellow officer.

About 1,000 Punjabis had been brought to the capital last week as reinforcements for a crackdown on radical militant clerics demanding the imposition of Islamic Sharia law and their madrassa school students. During the operations, a Punjabi officer was injured and later died, and his fellow officers claim the Islamabad police force did nothing to help him.

Several hundred of the 1,000 visiting officers went on a rampage, throwing stones and burning tires, and some chanted slogans from the madrassas they had come to raid. Several Islamabad police officers were also beaten in the protest.

The situation was brought under control when a senior police official from neighboring Rawalpindi arrived and calmed the Punjabi officers.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/19/2007 13:06 Comments || Top||


Israel-Palestine-Jordan
West Bank v. Gaza: unrelated people, different cultures
Bernard Wasserstein, professor of history at the University of Chicago,write a backgrounder useful in understanding Palestinian fault lines.
Suddenly there are two Palestines: a Hamas-ruled Gaza and a Fatah-controlled West Bank. It seemed to happen overnight but the roots of this division extend back far into Palestinian history. In the inter-war period, when Palestine was ruled by Britain under a League of Nations mandate, the Arab elite was divided into rival coalitions of notable families.

One, headed by Hajj Amin al-Husayni, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem,
Yasser Arafat's uncle or near cousin, oddly enough.
was traditionalist Muslim in outlook, suspicious of modernisation and Western values, and militantly hostile to Zionism and British imperialism. The mufti developed a countrywide network of power based on his control of Muslim religious institutions and trusts. He accused the Jews of designs on Muslim holy places. His followers rioted at the Western Wall in Jerusalem in 1929 and rose in revolt in 1936. Even with massive troop reinforcements and brutal repression, it took the British three years to bring the rebels to heel.

A second coalition was headed by the mufti's chief rival, Ragheb Bey Nashashibi, long the mayor of Jerusalem. He was a more pliable character who got on better with the British and the Zionists. Whereas the mufti wore old-fashioned robes and the traditional headgear of the hajji (pilgrim to Mecca), Ragheb Bey always appeared in a smart business suit. He and his supporters were widely suspected of being financially beholden to the Zionists. Pro-mufti newspapers accused Nashashibi and his supporters of being "pack animals of imperialism". During the revolt the mufti's men resorted to bullyboy tactics, assassinations and intimidation to cow their rivals.

After the Israeli victory in the 1948 war, what remained of Arab Palestine was divided into two disconnected fragments. In the Egyptian-occupied Gaza strip the mufti set up a short-lived "All-Palestine Government" which drew support mainly from the refugees who had flooded in from elsewhere in Palestine. Meanwhile, what became known as the West Bank was annexed by King Abdullah of Transjordan who installed Ragheb Bey and many of his supporters in positions of authority.

Between 1948 and 1967, Gaza, with its refugee majority, sealed off from Israel and Egypt, was economically prostrate. The West Bank, where the pre-1948 settled population still formed a majority, was a little better off; its elites formed a modus vivendi with the Hashemite rulers of Jordan, and, except in the refugee camps, some semblance of normal social life continued.

The Israeli occupation in 1967 consequently evoked somewhat different reactions. In the early 1970s, resistance to Israeli rule was fiercest in Gaza until suppressed by Ariel Sharon. By contrast, the Israelis encountered little serious impediment in the West Bank during the first two decades of the occupation. Gaza remained the poorest region of Palestine; housing conditions were grim; population density, fertility rates, and family size were among the highest in the world. Traditional clan loyalties remained a basic element of the society. Much of the population depended for survival on international aid.

The first intifada was sparked off in Gaza in 1987 and then spread to the West Bank. Hamas, which emerged in Gaza during the first intifada, found its inspiring leader there: the quadriplegic cleric, Sheikh Ahmad Yassin. In several ways he resembled the mufti. He dressed in traditional garb and thought in pre-modern categories. His movement was based on Islamic institutions that also offered social services. His popularity was heightened by inflammatory religious oratory and his programme combined rigid piety with fierce rejection of Zionism, the West and any accommodation with enlightenment principles. He drew support from the most alienated and desperate sections of society.

As the Oslo process faltered, Hamas denounced the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority as compromisers and traitors. The PLO leaders who returned from exile in the mid-1990s to lead the authority were regarded rather like the communist leaders who returned to Germany from Moscow in 1945 as outsiders who had done well out of the wars. They were secular in outlook, schooled in the precepts of Marx rather than Mohamed. With the notable exception of Arafat, they exchanged their battle fatigues for business suits. Like the Nashashibis a generation earlier, they were accused by their opponents of selling their political souls for self-enrichment. Men such as Muhammad Dahlan, the Fatah security chief in Gaza, a sophisticated and charming thug, were widely denounced as tools of the CIA.

Palestine today consists of two pitiably unviable entities, governed by two deeply unpopular movements. The mayhem, carnage and gang warfare in Gaza are unlikely to earn Hamas much new kudos. Mahmoud Abbas's pathetically belated and futile response demonstrates yet again his inadequacy as a leader.

On a microscopic scale, the separation of Gaza and the West Bank resembles that between East and West Pakistan in 1971. But the new state of Bangladesh had a powerful patron in neighbouring India. Hamas-controlled Gaza can look only to Iran and, to a lesser extent, Syria. In their tiny sliver of territory, hemmed in by Israel and Egypt, Gazans have no conception of themselves as a nation and no prospect of forming an independent state.

The West Bank, which imagines itself the Piedmont of the Palestinian Risorgimento, is by no means solidly behind Fatah. Hamas boasts considerable support in Hebron and Nablus and among the minority of the population who still live in refugee camps. But the palpable failure of Hamas in government since its election victory in January 2006 has led to general despair. "A plague on both your houses" is the most common view.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/19/2007 14:13 || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under: Hamas


Carter: Stop favoring Fatah over Hamas
The United States, Israel and the European Union must end their policy of favoring Fatah over Hamas, or they will doom the Palestinian people to deepening conflict between the rival movements, former US President Jimmy Carter said Tuesday.
And here you all been saying that he's a moron!
Posted by: gromgoru || 06/19/2007 11:16 || Comments || Link || [9 views] Top|| File under: Hamas

#1  Someone should ask Carter and others why they think the Israelis should talk with a party who swears to murder them and does not renounce violence.

They should ask them directly.
Posted by: Penguin || 06/19/2007 13:27 Comments || Top||

#2  There's some people ya wish just wouldn't wake up some morning...
Posted by: tu3031 || 06/19/2007 13:33 Comments || Top||

#3  tu3031, it will happen. Whether soon enough, that's another question.
Posted by: twobyfour || 06/19/2007 13:38 Comments || Top||

#4  Well, Jimmy, are you suggesting we favor Hamas over Fatah instead? Wait! Don't answer that.
Posted by: Mike || 06/19/2007 13:54 Comments || Top||

#5  I say we send Jimmy to meet with Hamas...

With a one way plane ticket.
Posted by: DarthVader || 06/19/2007 14:07 Comments || Top||

#6  Wasn't there some chemical used in peanut preparation back in the 70's that caused people exposed to it to have hallucinations, delusions and affect their grasp on reality?

Just wondering...
Posted by: Tony (UK) || 06/19/2007 14:30 Comments || Top||

#7  Jimmy - how about squirrels over rabbits?
Posted by: Raj || 06/19/2007 14:44 Comments || Top||

#8  Dhimmi "Butt-boy" Carter grabs ankles again.
Posted by: Spot || 06/19/2007 15:27 Comments || Top||

#9  Carter said the United States and others supplied the Fatah-controlled security forces in Gaza with vastly superior weaponry in hopes they would "conquer Hamas in Gaza" - but Hamas this month routed Fatah because of its "superior skills and discipline."

Well at least Rosalyn will be happy because it sounds like Jimmy's sporting wood again...
Posted by: tu3031 || 06/19/2007 15:39 Comments || Top||

#10  Far from encouraging Hamas's move into parliamentary politics, Carter said the US and Israel, with European Union acquiescence, has sought to subvert the outcome by shunning Hamas and helping Abbas to keep the reins of political and military power.

"That action was criminal," he said in a news conference after his speech.


This action just goes to show the penis farmers true allies. Jimmy you have been officially added to the "shit on their grave" list.
Posted by: Icerigger || 06/19/2007 16:29 Comments || Top||

#11  when is someone finally gonna tell carter too shut the fuck up. it's not like he did the best job or even mediopvre job as pres , so how about keeping your coments too yourself everyonce in awhile. hell is he still in GA i will go tell him my self. senile old shit
Posted by: sinse || 06/19/2007 16:41 Comments || Top||

#12  Note that Carter always says this shit when he is overseas. He is a traitor. The things he says run so counter to the interests of this country that it raises the issue of whether he has been coopted by a foriegn government(s). I say that with all seriousness, and not just in the standard pay off for saying nice things about us way that the Saudis do, but a real hard core, they've got his nuts in a vice kind of way.

He really is odious scum. Worst. President. Ever.
Posted by: remoteman || 06/19/2007 17:14 Comments || Top||

#13  Carter: Stop favoring Fatah over Hamas

Actually, he's right. Fatah and Hamas are both in equal need of killing, but I doubt that Jimmy ("Mister Irrelevant") Carter meant that. I wonder if Carter even realizes that his servicing of the Arabs only brings him scorn both at home and from his Islamic masters as well.
Posted by: Zenster || 06/19/2007 17:25 Comments || Top||

#14  Taking a line from the Cthulu party, I guess: Why settle for the lesser of two evils?
Posted by: Gary and the Samoyeds || 06/19/2007 20:19 Comments || Top||

#15  Why settle for the lesser of two evils?

Especially not when both are equally crunchy and go well with ketchup.
Posted by: Zenster || 06/19/2007 21:23 Comments || Top||

#16  You would think that Carter would be less enthusiastic about terrorists in the pay of the Iranian regime.

Somebody should ask for clarification from Carter whether he now sides with the mullahs in that whole embassy hostage deal.
Posted by: Super Hose || 06/19/2007 22:53 Comments || Top||

#17  Send Jimmuh to Gaza, as a Nobel Peace Prize nominee - by himself with no security detail.

Posted by: OldSpook || 06/19/2007 23:03 Comments || Top||

#18  Send Jimmuh to Gaza, as a Nobel Peace Prize nominee - by himself with no security detail.

But with his prize.
Posted by: Gary and the Samoyeds || 06/19/2007 23:41 Comments || Top||


Egypt arranging Fatah return to W. Bank
Egypt is trying to arrange passage to the West Bank for more than 300 Palestinians from the Fatah group who fled the Hamas takeover in Gaza, Palestinian and Egyptian security officials said Monday.

Egyptians and Palestinians have agreed to "ease the trip back to the West Bank" for some 340 security officials close to ineffectual Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party, said a Palestinian official at the Rafah border crossing between Egypt and Gaza. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. The crossing has been closed since Hamas took it over last week, and dozens of civilians could be seen stranded on the Egyptian side Monday.
And they're the lucky ones.
A Palestinian security official in the West Bank town of Ramallah confirmed the procedure to repatriate Fatah loyalists had begun. He said the Palestinian officials are to get temporary Egyptian travel documents, then fly to Jordan before heading to the West Bank.
And the Israelis are going along with this?
Palestinians are still trying to work out arrangements with Jordan, but expect the people to start traveling in the next two days, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the matter with the media.

An Egyptian security official, speaking on condition of anonymity for the same reasons, confirmed that the Fatah personnel _including 13 gut shot wounded being treated in an Egyptian military hospital_ would "return soon to the Palestinian territories."

Samir Mashharawi, a Fatah security official, said there were about 400 Fatah loyalists including men wearing burqas women and civilians now on Egypt's side of the border, but denied all would head back to the West Bank. "There's no decision to where these people will travel after Egypt," he Mashharawi. "Each one of them has his own destination," he said, adding that Palestinians were working with Egypt to deliver travel documents to these people.

Fatah members ran away fled Gaza when the Preventive Security Service's headquarters were taken by terrorists militants from the radical Hamas group late Thursday. Egypt's state-run news agency, MENA, reported that scores of Palestinian civilians had continued to run away flee to Egypt from Gaza over the weekend.
Posted by: Fred || 06/19/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [8 views] Top|| File under: Fatah

#1  I don't suppose that Condi took steps to investigate the number of Fatah deaths at the hands of Hamas murderers, before announcing a $40 million aid package to Gaza. And the UN - those heroes of Rwanda - gets to divvy it out.
Posted by: McZoid || 06/19/2007 14:04 Comments || Top||

#2  Uh, the aid going to the West Bank, not Gaza? You know, the other part of Paleo-Land?

But hey- why let facts stand in the way...
Posted by: Pappy || 06/19/2007 21:54 Comments || Top||


Barak sworn in as new defense minister
Posted by: Fred || 06/19/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [9 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Not to be confused with the same guy that gave away the Golan Hei.....wait, wait a minute.. I believe it's the same guy!!

Excellent 3rd world politics by the Israelis. Bravo.
Posted by: Poison Reverse || 06/19/2007 21:52 Comments || Top||


Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Iran Attacks [Brand New] Palestinian Government
The emergency Palestinian government set up by president Mahmoud Abbas after Hamas took control of Gaza is anti-democratic, Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister Mehdi Mostafavi said on Monday.
"The creation of a Palestinian emergency government is against democracy and accentuates political tensions in occupied Palestine," Mostafavi was quoted as saying by the Mehr news agency.

Iran is a major backer of Hamas, the Islamic Resistance Movement which, like the Islamic republic, refuses to recognize Israel.

Abbas on Thursday disbanded the unity government headed by Hamas' Ismail Haniya after the Islamists routed members of Abbas Fatah faction from the Gaza Strip in fierce fighting that left over 110 dead.

"Setting up another government alongside that of Ismail Haniya weakens Palestine and it's what the Zionist regime wants," Mostafavi said.

"Intra-Palestinian divisions can but please supporters of the Zionist regime like the United States," he said.(AFP-Naharnet)
Posted by: mrp || 06/19/2007 08:18 || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under: Govt of Iran

#1  There will never be peace until Iran and Syria are sorted out!

US to beat Iran and Israel to beat Syria is what the West Craves!!!!
Posted by: Paul || 06/19/2007 10:24 Comments || Top||

#2  It would be interesting to have Iran back Hamas while Jordan, Egypt and the Soddies backed Fatah.

Good for the popcorn industry.
Posted by: mhw || 06/19/2007 14:58 Comments || Top||


Iran will resort to 'oil as weapon if needed'
Tehran: Iran will not rule out using oil as a weapon if the United States resorts to military action against the Islamic Republic over its nuclear programmme, an
Iranian oil official said in remarks published on Tuesday.

"When the Americans say that military action in regard to the nuclear issue has not been put aside, Iran can also say that it will not put aside oil as a tool," Iran's OPEC
governor, Hossein Kazempour Ardebili, told Sharq newspaper.

Posted by: anonymous5089 || 06/19/2007 06:31 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under: Govt of Iran

#1  The oil weapon works both ways. Oil is a fungible commodity, so the only way it is a 'weapon' is if Iran holds it off the market altogether (withholding from one customer only to sell to a different one simply means oil which would have been purchased by the second customer from a different seller is available to be purchased by the embargoed one.) I don't believe Iran can afford to stop selling oil. In fact, in a war I suspect one of the first things we'd do is close down their ability to sell oil - can't buy new bullets without cash, and oil's their main source of cash.
Posted by: Glenmore || 06/19/2007 7:24 Comments || Top||

#2  Isn't Iran that country that imports most of it's PETROL?

I'd have thought Bush would be thinking "Make my Millenium" at pathetic threats like these.
Posted by: Bright Pebbles in Blairistan || 06/19/2007 7:37 Comments || Top||

#3  they've already been wielding the weapons of mass lubrication...against their own gov't officials...
Posted by: Seafarious || 06/19/2007 8:10 Comments || Top||

#4  Iran's economy seems to be completely funded by oil to me. How could they stop selling oil, even for a month? I don't think they could.
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 06/19/2007 8:30 Comments || Top||

#5  Ain't much of a weapon when it's burning.
Posted by: ed || 06/19/2007 9:07 Comments || Top||

#6  This is where even a broke-dick geezer like me can contribute to winning the War on Terror. Electric vehicles are just around the corner. I'm gonna get me one of the first Phoenix SUVs that roll out the door next year. http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/models/consumer.html


Posted by: Penguin || 06/19/2007 12:01 Comments || Top||

#7  That's ok Iran. We will resort to scouring your infrastructure to bedrock if needed.
Posted by: DarthVader || 06/19/2007 12:10 Comments || Top||

#8  They must be starting to sweat if they're talking like this. Number one, if they have to make threats like this it is an indication they think we really might attack. Number two, if they have to threaten to use oil as a weapon it means they don't have a helluva lot of faith in any of their other weapons. It sucks to be Iranian. I think once they've been attacked and blockaded for a while they'll be begging to sell their oil.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 06/19/2007 13:10 Comments || Top||

#9  Iran can take another country's oil off the market almost as easily as they can take their own off. Look at the map.
Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418 || 06/19/2007 14:28 Comments || Top||

#10  Oh, the tribology!
Posted by: eLarson || 06/19/2007 15:44 Comments || Top||

#11  Don't you folks remember? These are the guys with the Greatest-Military-in-the-Known-Universe a.k.a. - The Mighty Mad Mullah Mighty Military Machine™. Why would they need oil as a weapon?

The Mullahs get sillier, while Carter gets stupider.

Yeah, I know Mighty is in there twice.
Posted by: Bobby || 06/19/2007 16:59 Comments || Top||

#12  Ain't much of a weapon when it's burning.

Ima likin the way yer thimkin, ed.
Posted by: Zenster || 06/19/2007 17:41 Comments || Top||

#13  I heard a stat yesterday on talk radio that Iran imports approx 40% of the oil it uses. Maybe that 12th imam dude has some big-ass oil reserve down that well we just don't know about.
Posted by: Broadhead6 || 06/19/2007 21:16 Comments || Top||


Syrian official says war with Israel will not be conventional
Introducing the new arab buzzword.

Yaakov Katz, THE JERUSALEM POST

Former Syrian information minister Mahdi Dakhlallah said Monday that if a war broke out with Israel, it would be a war of Resistance™ and not a conventional war that Israel was accustomed to winning.

The Syrian official's remarks confirmed fears in the Israeli defense establishment that Syria was preparing to use Hizbullah-like guerrilla warfare tactics in a future conflict.

"I believe that if a war breaks out, it will not be a conventional war - the kind of war that Israel is used to winning swiftly," Dakhlallah, said in an interview on NBN TV which was translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI). "It will be a war of Resistance™, in which the armed forces may be defending the rear lines of the Resistance™."

According to Dakhlallah, terror Resistance™ was the "method that opened before the Arabs the path to victory" and succeeded in defeating Israel. President Bashar Assad has said that Resistance™ appears to be the only way to liberate the Golan Heights.

"When Israel [fought] armies, it reached Beirut and the outskirts of Damascus, but ever since the Arabs have begun using Resistance™, the Israelis are building a security wall to hide behind," he said. "They are the ones who say it is a security wall. Therefore, even though I don't know the scenario of this war, I know it will definitely not be a conventional war."
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means".
Senior officers in the Northern Command warned recently of the possibility that Syria would launch terror attacks along the border in an effort to draw Israel into a conflict. The officers pointed to the large amounts of money Syria had invested in replicating Hizbullah military tactics, particularly in establishing additional commando units and fortifying its short and long-range missile array.

Syria, the IDF has warned, had also built fake villages along the border that could be used to draw Israel into an asymmetric war like the that which the IDF encounters in combat against the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as well as against the Hizbullah in Lebanon.
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 06/19/2007 06:23 || Comments || Link || [12 views] Top|| File under: Govt of Syria

#1  1. he thinks Syria is good at fighting such a war
2. he thinks Israel can't learn from mistakes and adapt appropriately
Posted by: PlanetDan || 06/19/2007 6:34 Comments || Top||

#2  The secret's in the headband, they're magik.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/19/2007 7:05 Comments || Top||

#3  Um, Syria has a plenitude of "hard targets" that precludes the use of strictly guerrilla tactics.
You can sneak around in the bushes all you want, but when the Jews bomb the shit out of your power plants and oil infrastructure you are still hurting at the end of the day. This is so arab, I can't even conjure the words.
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 06/19/2007 8:42 Comments || Top||

#4  Wars of "resistance" only work if the occupier wants to hold land and if the occupier cares what a fifth-column of press has to say about said occupation. Rubble does not make trouble. Kill everything. Withdraw to the heights.
Posted by: Excalibur || 06/19/2007 8:43 Comments || Top||

#5  amen. When Damascus streets can't be travelled due to the rubble, and the highways are potholed and no power or water is available, that "unconventional" war isn't gonna be much comfort, Syrian Assholes
Posted by: Frank G || 06/19/2007 8:53 Comments || Top||

#6  The All New "Arab Warfare"! Now with Resistance™!!
Posted by: tu3031 || 06/19/2007 8:57 Comments || Top||

#7  The only answer for such tactics is total destruction, say the first mile in from the border -- after bouncing the rubble pound it to dust, incidentally collapsing the bunkers in on the occupants. Israel doesn't need to conquer with boots on the ground like in 1967, they just need to erase the problem. Syria's problem is that they only see as far as the testosterone riddled romance of the terrorists, not the businesslike response of those who fight wars to win (God grant the new defence minister means to do exactly that!).
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/19/2007 8:59 Comments || Top||

#8  Mahdi Dakhlallah is probably right about the war with Israel not being conventional. He is wrong about it being a "path to victory", or defeating Israel. The Syrians would do better to build a fake Damascus, instead of fake villages. The real one will probably be standing "for a limited time only" -

Isaiah 17:1 "The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap."
Posted by: Mullah Lodabullah || 06/19/2007 9:22 Comments || Top||

#9  5089 seems to be alluding to a different meaning of 'non-conventional' war, because if there is a sustained SW wind Israel could still likely 'win' that kind of fight quite quickly. Neither Dakhlallah nor Israel would be occupying Damascus for 10,000 years.
Posted by: Glenmore || 06/19/2007 9:30 Comments || Top||

#10  Isaiah 17:1 "The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap."

Methinks it's about time for this prophecy to come true.
Posted by: Mike N. || 06/19/2007 9:33 Comments || Top||

#11  what number 3 said. Israel had lots of political complexities bombing Leb infrastructure, since Israel wants to influence Leb politics, since the Lebs are sympathetic in the West, etc, etc. No such constraints apply in Syria.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 06/19/2007 9:37 Comments || Top||

#12  Rubble does not make trouble.

Excalibur, I am soooo gonna have to steal that line.

The 'burg is right. Syria is too rich in hard targets to fight a "resistance" war properly. I think Assadie is counting on the fact that Israel will not bomb them because of the flak it would catch from the Western nations. Might work. Might not. Depends on if leaders are chosen that are willing to take off the gloves.
Posted by: DarthVader || 06/19/2007 10:04 Comments || Top||

#13  Great minds, y'all. ;-) Although I don't know that Syria has much has much oil infrastructure, though. The Syrians were almost as blessed as the Jews in the mineral riches of their homeland.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/19/2007 10:09 Comments || Top||

#14  Pity the syrians are cursed in the field of cranial wealth extraction.
Posted by: Bright Pebbles in Blairistan || 06/19/2007 11:01 Comments || Top||

#15  #7: My goodness,TW,is that really you ? Methinks the forum here is having an effect on your civilized sensibilities after all. Once everyone has modified their approach to the Death Cult, the solution is simple and direct. Wonderful !
Posted by: Woozle Elmeter2970 || 06/19/2007 11:43 Comments || Top||

#16  I dunno - if they're threatening "non-conventional" warfare, I read it to mean they will use chem/bio (since they have no nukes) against Israel.

The mere threat should be enough to get Damascus leveled.
Posted by: mojo || 06/19/2007 11:58 Comments || Top||

#17  There's more petrol targets than you might think in Syria, they've become a minor player from a few finds recently.
Posted by: Shipman || 06/19/2007 14:19 Comments || Top||

#18  What a stupid sod - whenever *I* hear the phrase 'not conventional' I equate it to chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. I imagine that the Israelis think something along those lines too. Now the mere fact that Israel is *known* to have at least one 'non-conventional' weapon would be enough to make me very careful about using the phrase 'not conventional' when talking about future wars with the Israelis.

So why is he saying this then?
#1 He's a bloody idiot, and is talking tough to get attention with all the keffiyeh wearing dolts
#2 He's a bloody idiot
#3 He's aware that Syria has it's own 'not conventional' weapons (was it a fiction, all those lorries leaving Iraq in early 2003, on their way to Syria?) and thinks he can go toe-to-toe with the Israelis

I'm presuming #1, (#2 goes without saying) but if it's #3, then things could get very nasty indeed, and it's got to be likely that the Syrians would lose control of the situation very quickly indeed...
Posted by: Tony (UK) || 06/19/2007 14:26 Comments || Top||

#19  lets game this out.

lets say, the tribunal finds Syria guilty wrt to Hariri, and they try a war with Israel as a diversion. What do they do?

Well leaving aside the main front, they get Hamas to go to war, and they mess around in Leb. But Hamas is contained in Gaza. Some nasty hits to Sderot, but not as bad the hurt that Hamas takes. They have Hamas cells attack Fatah in the WB, but that means blowing Hamas' sleepers for Syrian purposes, and a one time gain at that. Fatah will be rocked, but may hold. At worst, Jordan will back them up.

Syria cant to much in Leb without provoking the euros. Not a good move, unless theyre completley desperate.

On the main front. they start shooting long range missiles at Israeli cities. Daring the Israelis to come in conventionally along the main front. Along which theyve a hezb style defense, well trained infantry (Assuming Syr inf is as trained and motivated as Hezb) in heavily fortified villages.

If your IDF CoS, what do you do? First you go after the rockets from the air. As in Leb, you dont have to kill them all, just keep them off balance, to reduce damage to Israel. You go after the villages with armor and infantry, but this time you mobilize from the start, and you try to use armor more creatively. You also pulverize villages from the air. Not good for your image, but these are Syrians, not Lebs, and you arent worried about the political impact in Syria. At the same time you hit back on Syrian infrastructure. This time without apology. Will the Israeli homefront be willing to take hits, knowing youre inflicting worse? Will the US be able to defer a UNSC ceasefire while you do what you need to do? Keeping in mind that Syrias not quite as popular at the UN as Leb is. And lastly, at what point is the Syrian govt to weakened to maintain control against the various oppositions.

Assads last trump, of course, is your fear that if hes gone the MB will come to power. But if Syria is attacking Israeli cities, and supporting a Hamas war in the WB, how much worse can the MB be?
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 06/19/2007 14:38 Comments || Top||

#20  israel too syria: you will lose in an unconventional war too
Posted by: sinse || 06/19/2007 16:42 Comments || Top||

#21  Wars of "resistance" only work if the occupier wants to hold land and if the occupier cares what a fifth-column of press has to say about said occupation. Rubble does not make trouble. Kill everything. Withdraw to the heights.

Word, Excal.

The only answer for such tactics is total destruction, say the first mile in from the border -- after bouncing the rubble pound it to dust, incidentally collapsing the bunkers in on the occupants. Israel doesn't need to conquer with boots on the ground like in 1967, they just need to erase the problem. Syria's problem is that they only see as far as the testosterone riddled romance of the terrorists, not the businesslike response of those who fight wars to win (God grant the new defence minister means to do exactly that!).

Had enough, have we, dear trailing wife? It is distinctly cockle-warming to see more and more people throw the old "boots-on-the-ground" strategy under the bus. Why risk any troops when all you really need to do is leave some smoking holes in your wake?
Posted by: Zenster || 06/19/2007 17:56 Comments || Top||

#22  RESISTANCE IS FUTILE ---
BEHOLD THE ARMY OF RESISTORS!!!!
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 06/19/2007 21:08 Comments || Top||

#23  lets game this out.

Sure. Some call it 'work', but what the hey.

Lets say, the tribunal finds Syria guilty wrt to Hariri, and they try a war with Israel as a diversion. What do they do?

If the Syrians do anything, it'll be before the tribunal comes to a judgement.

Well leaving aside the main front, they get Hamas to go to war, and they mess around in Leb.

Quite likely.

But Hamas is contained in Gaza. Some nasty hits to Sderot, but not as bad the hurt that Hamas takes.

If Hamas attacks, it won't be with just missiles. Walls aren't impregnable. As fat as the 'hurt' I suspect that will already be factored in.

They have Hamas cells attack Fatah in the WB, but that means blowing Hamas' sleepers for Syrian purposes, and a one time gain at that. Fatah will be rocked, but may hold. At worst, Jordan will back them up.

Possibly. Likely what one would see is a repeat of what is going on in Lebanon.

Syria cant to much in Leb without provoking the euros. Not a good move, unless theyre completley desperate.

Ah, here's where we have a slight disagreement. It may not be Syria itself doing the heavy lifting. And you are counting on a better reaction from the Europeans than I am.

On the main front. they start shooting long range missiles at Israeli cities. Daring the Israelis to come in conventionally along the main front. Along which theyve a hezb style defense, well trained infantry (Assuming Syr inf is as trained and motivated as Hezb) in heavily fortified villages.

Again, it may not be Syria directly initiating, but counter-responding to the IDF.

If your IDF CoS, what do you do? First...

Again, it all depends on howw it starts. That's the 'fun' of playing defense.

Will the Israeli homefront be willing to take hits, knowing youre inflicting worse? Will the US be able to defer a UNSC ceasefire while you do what you need to do? Keeping in mind that Syrias not quite as popular at the UN as Leb is.

A lot of ifs-and-maybes. Syria may not be quite as popular, but it has some pretty powerful backers in the UN. North Korea is even less popular than Syria - what has the UN accomplished in that matter?

And lastly, at what point is the Syrian govt to weakened to maintain control against the various oppositions.

Ah, the linchpin. Same thing can be argued about Syria's partner, Iran (except that it's more a matter of control over its population). Judging by the two nations' reactions, I'd say they are quite concerned.

Assads last trump, of course, is your fear that if hes gone the MB will come to power. But if Syria is attacking Israeli cities, and supporting a Hamas war in the WB, how much worse can the MB be?

Not necessarily much of a trump. But I'd also wager that Iran is quite willing to let Assad hang if it advances their objectives.
Posted by: Pappy || 06/19/2007 22:20 Comments || Top||


Report links Assad to Katyusha attack
Syrian President Bashar Assad was linked to Sunday's Katyusha rocket attack on Kiryat Shmona, the Kuwaiti Al Siyasah newspaper reported on Monday. In an exclusive article, the paper claimed that Assad's motive was his anger at the Arab League foreign ministers' positions during last week's Cairo summit, particularly the stances of Egypt and Saudi Arabia, who called for an end to Syrian involvement in Lebanon. According to the newspaper, Assad reacted harshly to the criticism, saying: "They will see how I will plough up Lebanon."
Posted by: Fred || 06/19/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under: Govt of Syria


U.N. to investigate latest Lebanon assassination
The U.N. Security Council approved Lebanon's request for United Nations help in investigating the murder of an anti-Syrian legislator, killed in a bomb blast last week, according to a letter published on Monday.

Lebanon's Prime Minister Fouad Siniora last week requested Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon to agree to "technical assistance" from the U.N.-established International Independent Investigation Commission in the assassination of Walid Eido. A parked sports utility vehicle packed with explosives blew up last Wednesday as Eido's car left a Beirut beach club. One of his sons and two bodyguards were among the dead and at least 11 people were wounded.

In response, Belgium's U.N. Ambassador Johan Verbeke, this month's council president, said the 15-member body approved Siniora's request. The commission was originally set up to investigate the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri, killed with 22 others in Beirut on Feb. 14, 2005. Verbeke wrote that the council was "determined to continue to assist the government of Lebanon in the search for the truth and to bring to justice perpetrators, organizers and sponsors of that terrorist attack and of other terrorist attacks and assassinations committed in Lebanon since October 2004."

Eido is among a series anti-Syrian figures killed before and since the the Hariri assassination, including Pierre Gemayel, a Lebanese cabinet member. Many Lebanese have accused Syria of involvement in the slayings, a claim Damascus denies. The U.N. Commission is involved in 16 investigations. The killing of Eido occurred three days after a Security Council resolution came into effect on creating an international tribunal to try suspects in Hariri's murder. The court is opposed by Syria and its Lebanese allies. A team of U.N. experts to aid the commission was expected in Beirut shortly, headed by Belgian prosecutor Serge Brammertz.
Posted by: Fred || 06/19/2007 00:00 || Comments || Link || [8 views] Top|| File under: Govt of Syria

#1  Great, now we can have another 15 member team standing around with their thumb up their ass, all the while making $150K a year with no hope of result.
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 06/19/2007 8:46 Comments || Top||



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