RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, July 25 -- Saudi security forces arrested man who was trying to set off a bomb he had in his possessions, an official said Monday. The Interior Ministry official said in a statement the suspect, Mohammed bin Said al-Omari, a Saudi, was arrested in Medina in western Saudi Arabia, after police was tipped about his whereabouts by local inhabitants. He was described as being one of Saudi Arabia's 36 most wanted terror suspects. "The security forces overpowered him and seized a bomb he tried to toss at them," the official said. He pointed out that two of his accomplices were seized, although they did not figure on the official list of 36 terrorists.
Additional: RIYADH - Saudi security forces on Monday arrested a terror suspect in the holy city of Madinah who figured on a recently issued list of wanted militants, after a tip-off from citizens, the interior ministry said. Mohammed bin Saeed al-Amri, a 25-year-old Saudi, was arrested âafter a group of citizens followed him and informed (authorities) about him,â said a statement carried by the official SPA news agency.
"You say al-Amri, and I say al-Omari.."
Security forces âstripped him of a pipe bomb he was carryingâ and also arrested âtwo people linked to him,â it said.
Now linked by decorative handcuffs
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 12:19 ||
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#1
Arrest any Saudi, and you got yourself a terror suspect.
Posted by: DO ||
07/25/2005 15:24 Comments ||
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#2
Y'know, I was just getting used to the 26 (or was it 28?) "official" terrorist list. Now they've caught (and released?) those and issued this new one with 36 names on it. Does that mean there are 62 (or 68) terrs in Saudi?
#9
It's hotter than a fart in a dead Arab here, too. The thing that worries me most is a small nuke in the hands of a Jihadi who isn't going to use it on the West, but on an Islamic "Holy Site". The PR for the Mad Mullahs would be terrific. The World knows only the US and Israel, plus a few other Western countries, have nukes so who could have done it but the US or the JOOOOS? That would rally every Mooselimb in the world against the evil US and Israel.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
07/25/2005 19:42 Comments ||
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EFL
Brazilian electricianillegal alien Jean Charles de Menezes refused to obey police orders and hence was shot eight times not just five by anti-terror police when he ran with a heavy coat at Stockwell Tube station.
An inquest opened into the death of the 27-year-old at Southwark Coroner's Court heard he was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder. Shame. That could have caused a detonation.
The details of his death have been confirmed by the Independent Police Complaints Commission. The shoot-to-kill-terrorists order stands.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) ||
07/25/2005 18:36 ||
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#3
I think we should not vilify the guy. I think he truly was at the wrong place and the wrong time and just panicked.
He was, as Jack Straw said, a legal alien and not connected to terror in any way. It should be made clear that he was shot by plainclothes police who were chasing him. Maybe he didn't understand they were legitimate police at all.
Given the circumstances police reaction is understandable. But right now there is no need to slander the guy. He might just have panicked. In a Brazilian slum running away from armed plainclothed police might be the thing to do, who knows.
Sorry TGA, I have limited sympathy given the circumstances. I could possibly revise my judgment if we learn the police didn't challenge him and demand that he stop sufficiently clearly.
#6
This tragedy is yet to fully play out. Several Google news reports now speculate that the man panicked and ran because he was in the country on an expired immigrant visa. You're right, TGA, 'wrong place and the wrong time' and guilty conscience.
Helluva price to pay for running when he should have stopped. Chances are no one would have questioned his immigration status since they had other more pressing priorities.
#7
Kalle, they weren't in uniform and we don't know if they identified themselves properly or if he clearly understood what was going on.
Brazil shouldn't wipe crocodile tears now, it's a country known for police violence. From what I know about Third World countries, plainclothes guys pretending to be police are often common muggers.
#8
Same here, limited sympathy. London is not a Brazilian slum.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/25/2005 21:43 Comments ||
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#9
plainclothes guys pretending to be police are often common muggers
You don't have to look very far, try eastern Europe.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/25/2005 21:45 Comments ||
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#10
From the Scotsman:
Mr de Menezes had given relatives a glowing report of life in the United Kingdom in a visit to Brazil soon after moving to the country. "They don't have violence," he had said. "It's good there. Nobody walks around with a gun."
Maybe it was exactly this scene that made him panick?
#12
I stand by my wrong place wrong time idea.
German tourists have been shot by highway police in the US because they weren't familiar with the rules (left car quickly, made fast moves).
#13
That could be, TGA. On the other hand I seem to recall reading that he grew up in a tough neighborhood in Brazil, one in which drug dealing was common. So it's not beyond belief that he was associated with the Islamacists living in the same apartment building, drug running or otherwise being involved in illegal activities -- probably without knowing what their aims were beyond making money in illegal ways. If true, he might well have panicked that day once the failed terror attempts were publicized and his building surrounded. News accounts specifically said that the police had photos of him that day when they surrounded the building. Don't have the link here with me on that one, tho -- sorry.
Still, I am saddened by his death if he had nothing to do with the terror cell.
#14
When you know there are terrorists on the run, trying to attack the tube, with major police efforts ongoing, you simply don't attempt anything like his final athletics when policemen ordered him to stop.
It's tragic, yes. It wouldn't have happened if Islamofascists hadn't repeatedly attacked London transports, let's not forget. And let's be grateful the British government has the intelligence and strength to ask its police to shoot to kill.
In the mid to late 70s, I used to see a lot of policemen walking around Swiss airports with machine-guns, due to Paleo-Arab terrorism. We knew there were civilian-clothed policemen too. Nobody ever tried to run when asked to stop. Ever. You're better off in jail if you're a thief, or deported if you're an illegal alien, than dead if you're an idiot.
João died because he acted like an idiot under the circumstances.
#15
Jack Straw actually said he is unsure what João's status was.
But there is NO WAY a Brazilian "electrician" could have a legal residency permit in the UK for that long. He must have gone there under false pretense (student visa) and then chose to be an illegal alien. I repeat, there is NO WAY he could have been a legal resident working full-time.
Jack Straw is likely trying to sound diplomatic in front of the cameras.
Mr Straw said: "I don't have any precise information about his immigration status here. My understanding is that he was here lawfully."
You bet he would know by now EXACTLY if the status were illegal. It would make the case that the Brazilian was indeed KNOWINGLY running away from police.
#17
But again:
Had this happened before 7/7 this would have been excessive.
In the afdtermath of the bombings it's clearly understandable. And the policy should continue. The death of that guy will have one positive effect: Everybody knows now how to behave.
#18
The Police in the UK are of such a standard that other countries law enforcement are measured against them. To be an armed officer in the UK means you have been vetted at an almost unbelievable level. I have no doubt these officers repeatedly commanded him to halt and identified themselves as police.
His english was not "limited", he understood english well.
He chose to go out in a long heavy coat on a very hot day.
He ran.
He failed to stop when commanded to do so by the police.
He vaulted the turnstile at a subway station.
He entered a passanger rail car with people in it.
He was shot 8 times.
He died.
He chose to do mutilple things beyond explaination and paid with his life.
The modern idea of law enforcement started in London. The cops there know how to do their job. I don't think it's proper for the press or anyone else to second guess them. We know what the late Mister de Menezes did wrong. The armed police in the UK are not trigger happy sheriffs in some old western. I will wait for a full, but unwarranted, investigation to find the police acted correctly..
#19
SPoD, had they been police in uniform I wouldn't even argue. With plainclothes police it's never that simple.
I'm sure they believed that they were stopping a bomber so nobody can blame them. But let's go easy on the victim.
How hot was this day and how heavy the coat? And why does a man in a heavy coat run faster than a dozen of trained police?
#20
Well I tell you what, if I put on my "protective vest" and my 45, 4 extra mags and 3 pair of handcuffs on my too heavy body, I can't catch up very well either. I am 53 to boot. *Under most circumstances they like me would have let him go. But this isn't "most circumstances."
As always, their main duty is to protect the many from the few. This time they got one of the many. That is entirely de Menezes fault. What was he thinking? I think I know what the police officers were thinking.
#21
It was a lamentable mistake in judgement by all parties. Happens a fair amount in law enforcement. Current issue of Force Science News (unfortunately not online yet)profiles a recent study by firearms trainer Tom Aveniof police shooting efficacy--in particular shootings of unarmed suspects. The combination of furtive movement (jumping a turn style and running away) with "mistake-of-fact" (the heavy coat is concealing a bomb) can be a lethal combo when cops have to make a split-second decisions. British police aren't immune to this problem. In fact, the May 31st issue of FSN details a recent visit by top British police specialists made to the Force Science Research Center to better understand officer involved shootings:
IV. FSRC HELPS VISITING BRITS UNRAVEL TROUBLING MYSTERIES OF POLICE SHOOTINGS
Representatives of 2 elite British policing units and a major police union traveled to the Force Science Research Center this month [5/05] for a private 3-day update on the latest scientific findings about officer-involved shootings.
Three of the visitors (Andrea Earl, Peter Smyth and Dave Bonnett) were spokespeople for the Metropolitan Police Federation while Mark Williams was from the main firearms unit (SO19)which supplies armed-response vehicles for all of London while Dave Blocksidge was from the Diplomatic Protection Group (SO16) (comparable to the U.S. Secret Service.)
"We've had a number of shootings that have caused problems over the years," Cst. Mark Williams of the SO19 firearms unit told Force Science News. "These have involved perceptual distortions, the movements of subjects and officers, and the effect of memory on the writing of notes [reports]."
As in the US, he says that an "incredible naivetŽ about firearms" among civilians complicates police activities. "It is frightening, really."
The visitors were particularly interested in information that might prove relevant to a 1999 incident in which 2 English officers shot a suspect in the head who they thought was wielding a shotgun inside a bag. After the smoke cleared, the "gun" was found to be a wooden table leg. The officers were charged with murder and a coroner's inquest returned a verdict of "unlawful killing." Although the verdict was overturned, the case still is not fully resolved. A second coroner's inquest returned a verdict of unlawful killing that was recently overturned at the high court of London. However, the officers are still awaiting a third decision by the crown prosecution service.
The presentations they experienced at FSRC headquarters at Minnesota State University-Mankato "answered so many questions," Williams says. "We received research information on police shootings we haven't had any knowledge of. It was awesome. There's nothing like this in the U.K."
Police investigating the London bombings on Monday named two suspects in connection with last weekâs failed attacks. The two suspects were named as Muktar Said Ibraihim, also known as Muktar Mohammed Said, and Yasin Hassan Omar, 24 years old. Police have not yet identified the third suspect. Police say all three entered Stockwell station on Thursday 21 July at 12.25pm.
The names were released as detective stepped up inquiries into the support network and international connections of at least eight terrorists. Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police commissioner, said inquiries were proceeding at an "extraordinary pace", before police revealed they had made a third arrest as they hunted four suspected bombers linked to the July 21 attempts, and those involved in helping them and others "financially and operationally".
Police believe the four terrorists behind the July 7 attacks on the London transport system, which killed 56 people and injured more than 700 others, died in the blasts although their wider connections remain unclear. But the police said over the weekend they believed that at least four people behind the failed attacks last Thursday were still in the UK, and that there was some evidence emerging of links to those who killed themselves in the July 7 attacks.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/25/2005 10:25 ||
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#1
Just as I suspected! Laplander and Amish extremists walking amongst us motivated by "Root Causes" no doubt! ... Hope the PO's and MI5 connect the dots quickly in their investigation. It should be very interesting when the trail of the boomers to and from the sites and up to the time of arrest are worked out. I'm sure the trail will be littered with the usual "good lads" and "nice girls" sharing at least one Root Cause thingy in common. Parents and peers will bemoan the wee ones being turned to the dark side by the badman while at the same time apologists will remind us that it was the seething anger over slights and injustices amorphous done to coreligionists overseas that led to the despair that necessitated trying to kill alot of their countrymen, and innocent ones at that. Yes, simple case of good folks led astray. That's all. No more and no less?
#2
" the controversy over the shoot-to-kill policy of terrorist suspects has fuelled anxiety among members of the Muslim community who fear they might also be shot as victims of mistaken identity"
Only if you run when the police challenges you because you're wearing a thick winter coat on a warm summer day.
And is there anything that makes them believe the Brazilian electrician was a Moslem? no? then why do Moslems claim a special victim status?
This whole thing wouldn't be necessary if Moslems were to give up their evil trinity of taqiya, jihad and sharia.
That the Islamophartz sent him out, and told him what to do to get himself into trouble, only they didn't tell him that was the objective.
Those cops ought to round up the folks in that house the Brazilian came out of, and put some Victoria's Secret finery over their heads until they start singing like canaries.
If life was a tv show, I'd say the CI5 is on the case.
MORE undercover marksmen will be deployed on the streets of London today after it emerged that a fifth bomber may be on the loose after Thursdayâs failed bomb attacks. Despite calls for an inquiry into Scotland Yardâs tactics after the killing of an innocent Brazilian, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, insisted that shoot-to-kill orders will stay in force. Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary, has postponed his family holiday to take charge of the fraught manhunt. Three days after Scotland Yard issued CCTV photographs of the fugitives, none has been arrested. But Sir Ian praised his officers, saying that âthey are playing out of their socksâ.
It emerged last night that a man was arrested on the street in Tulse Hill, South London, on Saturday but, like two others held on Friday, he was not thought to be one of the bombers. The three are being questioned at Paddington Green police station. Police sources also disclosed that a bag found at the weekend in a park in Wormwood Scrubs, West London, contained the same type of explosives that were used in Thursdayâs attacks. They believe that a fifth bomber may have abandoned his mission for unknown reasons. Detectives do not know how much explosive material the cell still has. Security forces fear that the four gang members â all believed to be London-based and of East African origin â will strike again before they are found or the explosives degrade.
Sir Ian said that his force took full responsibility for the death of Jean Charles de Menezes, a 27-year-old electrician, but said that there would be no change of orders to his 2,000 armed officers. Politicians and police chiefs believe that the risk of more mass killings is graver than another blunder. As Sir Ian apologised, the Brazilian Government demanded an explanation and Mr Menezesâs family and friends protested outside Scotland Yard.
Unless he's said something other than what I listened to on the radio, he didn't apologize. He expressed his regret. There's a difference.
#1
"Sir Ian said that the Brazilian had been seen leaving the address but admitted that he did not how many people shared the building. "
Many houses in London are shared by renters, each having a room and sharing access to the kitchen and bathroom. The Brazilian electrician may have been unfortunate to have been renting a room in the same flat as a terrorist. There'd be no way for the police to know what relationship there was between these people as it had been less than 24 hours since the attempted bombings and a few hours since the house was under surveillance.
#2
I can't imagine what is going through the mind of the failed bombers. They're probably thinking of trying something again, but it must rather unnerving to know that there are thousands of policemen in civilian clothing all over London, ready to shoot them in the head if they do anything suspicious. As has been convincingly demonstrated.
POLICE fear that there may have been a fifth bomber who failed to carry out his suicide mission last Thursday after the discovery of a suspect package in bushes near Wormwood Scrubs prison in West London. The package, found on Saturday morning, appeared to be packed with explosives, nails and bolts, similar to the device found at Warren Street. Police carried out a series of controlled explosions on it.
The four fugitives whose bombs failed to explode must know they cannot stay in one place for long. Their names are known to police, who are trying to find out if these are the menâs real identities. Many identification documents and other evidence had been cut into pieces but were carried in the rucksacks. Detectives are also studying telephone calls believed to link this cell with the four who blew themselves up on July 7. It is not clear if these are direct calls between the two, but the hope is that they may reveal the identity of other key figures such as the bombmaker and the man who co-ordinated that operation. Detectives want to establish if this gang can lay their hands on more explosives. Police scientists are also trying to identify the chemical signature of the explosive left in the rucksacks and match it to bombs used on July 7.
FBI specialists have offered their expertise amid warnings these chemicals degrade and may be dangerously unstable. The bombers must realise this, so unless they have access to another supply there is an urgent need for them to use what may be left. Police chiefs do not expect this gang to try to flee the country, even though all are believed to be of East African origin. One senior source told The Times: âThese men seem determined to die. They are likely to have been picked for their stronger resolve than the four men who died on July 7.â
Continued on Page 49
British police arrested a third man in connection with last week's failed attack against London's transit system and said Sunday they were trying to penetrate what they suspect is an al-Qaida network behind the plot. Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair expressed deep regret to the family of Jean Charles de Menezes, the Brazilian electrician shot dead by police on the subway Friday after he was mistaken for a terrorist. Blair called the killing a "tragedy," but defended officers' right to use deadly force against suspected terrorists.
The latest arrest was made Saturday in an area near London's southern Stockwell neighborhood, Tulse Hill, where Menezes had lived and near the subway station where he was killed. The man was arrested "on suspicion of the commission, instigation or preparation of acts of terrorism," said a police spokeswoman. Police are still holding two men arrested in Stockwell on Friday, Blair said. None of their identities have been released.
Police also said they carried out several controlled explosions Sunday to destroy a package found in northwest London that may have been linked to devices used in the botched attacks. Blair said he suspected an al-Qaida network was involved in last Thursday's failed attacks. He had previously said al-Qaida was probably linked to the July 7 attacks as well in which four suicide bombers killed 52 people and themselves. "The way in which al-Qaida operates is not a sort of classic cell structure," the police chief told Britain's Sky News television. "It has facilitators, so we're looking for the bomb makers, we're looking for the chemists, we're looking for the financiers, we're looking for the people who groomed these young people, so it will be a wide network that we're trying to penetrate."
Posted by: Fred ||
07/25/2005 00:00 ||
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Nay, it's not AQ. It's a cell of evil white rafters.
Posted by: Captain America ||
07/25/2005 1:31 Comments ||
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#2
Pure hysterical speculation that the Brazilian is not affiliated with the terrorists living in the same building. The weather that day was warm even for a Brazilian - no need to wear a quilted jacket, by jove. Also, as an electrician working in London he had a very high level of understanding English. Stop means stop. Get down means get down. Don't run or resist means exactly that. Jumping turnstiles and running down escalators doesn't mean you are hurrying for a train since you can't tell if it is waiting in station or not from upstairs. It will turn out to not be as big a mistake as it now appears, Watson.
Posted by: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle ||
07/25/2005 5:29 Comments ||
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#3
One word: internment. Round up all the asshats and stick them on the Isle of Man - as we did in WW2. I bet if, for whatever reason, we had conscription in this country the Pakistanis would be back to their homeland as quick as...
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/25/2005 6:19 Comments ||
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#4
What do you have against the Isle of Man? My daughter very much likes the place.
#5
OK - I think there's a Scottish island still rendered uninhabitable by 1950's experiments with anthrax. Would be much more suitable...
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/25/2005 8:01 Comments ||
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#6
What about the South Sandwich Islands, Howard? They should not be able to do much mischief there.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/25/2005 9:08 Comments ||
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#7
This from the BBC: The Brazilian man shot dead by police in south London, who mistook him for a suicide bomber, had been in Britain on an out-of-date visa, officials say. Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, may have run from police because of his visa situation, BBC correspondents say. The electrician had come to the UK on a student visa, which allows people to work for a small number of hours.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 9:13 Comments ||
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#8
Waiting for the Electrician, or someone like him.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/25/2005 9:17 Comments ||
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#9
One less clueless prick in the world.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/25/2005 9:31 Comments ||
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#10
AP - South Sandwich Isles - nearly all precipitation falls as snow. That'd be a change from Pakistan!
Posted by: Bobby ||
07/25/2005 9:39 Comments ||
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#11
"The electrician had come to the UK on a student visa, which allows people to work for a small number of hours."
Why call him an "electrician"? he was an illegal alien. Lots of foreigners come to London under the pretense of studying English (with a 12 months student visa) and then choose to stay & work illegally in the country. These are the type of people who rent a room in a shared house.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/25/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Nothing to defend. This guy did all the wrong things and that is why he is dead. This will waste time of investigators who could be used elsewhere and be ruled a good shooting in the end.
#4
Unfortunately, I do think there should be an investigation of the shooting, since the English Media reported that one of the five shots was to the body. If that is true, the shooting officer will need to be sent back to pistol training, since the whole idea of doing head shots is to avoid body shots on kamikazees with belt bombs. Detonators tend to react badly to bullets.
#8
It's certainly a sad thing that it happened. But given the circumstances the police had no choice. They had reasons to believe what they believed and the guy did not stop and ran towards the train.
The "shoot to kill policy" sounds drastic. But as long as you stop when police tells you so you won't be shot.
#9
Please let's spend time on the war on terror and not on an individual that did not comply to police instructions. To which groups and elements in society do we have to defend this policy....?
#10
TGA even look sideways at a cop in Brasil. I can assure people in Brasil stop when told to do so by the police.
There is no "shoot to kill" policy. It is a shoot to save lives policy. The UK police and are head and sholders above many police force in this world. This is totally blown out of importance.
#11
The BBC has wanked itself into a frenzy over this for four days now. The bombs of 7/7 and the last week's failed attacks were being described on the Today programme (BBC Radio 4) this morning as the 'London incidents'. The Egyptian attacks and the investigations in London have had to play second fiddle to this story. Utter loonies. They should have had the photos of the bombers at the front of each bulletin like the other channels. But, as so often with the Beeb news, fuck the majority of people and concentrate on some poor prick from the minorities.
If this guy thought he was under threat why didn't he approach the uniformed coppers that are in all tube stations at the moment? Why vault the barrier? Prick deserved to be shot. South American? Coke dealer? Mmmmm...
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/25/2005 5:12 Comments ||
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#15
As to the victim's mistake it's obvious enough that you don't run like a rabbit from the PO's and especially so when you are in a place that is under heightened security due to terrorist attacks. One would expect better discretion from a Brazilian abroad. The PO's though should look to learn from the incident.
#17
Unless I've missed a correction to the story, he *did* come out of a house frequented by Islamoboomers, right? If that is true, then perhaps he wasn't as innocent as the BBC is making out? Just because the police didn't have anything on him doesn't make him "innocent" except in the legal sense.
Hanging out with that crowd, then running like he did in a subway that's been bombed *twice* in two weeks... well, I hope the next cop pulls the trigger quick (and repeatedly) when faced with the same situation.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
07/25/2005 9:14 Comments ||
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#18
I think it is important to conduct a full investigation here--this was a serious incident and a tragic misunderstanding. It's important to determine whether or not the police were uniformed or able to identify themselves to the victim. It's also important, as Shieldwolf stated, to ensure police are trained to hit potential suicide bombers with head shots, not body shots!
That being said, dressing unseasonably warm in a long, bulky coat while jumping turnstiles in a subway system that has been bombed twice in recent weeks to flee from police is NOT a smart thing to do--especially if you're a young male of a complexion that can be mistaken for Middle Eastern. It's unfortunate this idiot had to die for being nothing more than ignorant, but it sends a clear message that the UK is serious--deadly serious--about stopping terror.
I only hope this incident doesn't hogtie the police response in the future. It was regrettable, but it was also necessary.
And to the miserable apologist who asks what's wrong with us, understand this: We are at war. Incidents like this will happen when you are trying to defend a population from fanatics who are willing to kill themselves while taking as many innocent men, women, and children with them. These incidents are regrettable, but they are reactions to the real problem, not the problem itself.
Posted by: Dar ||
07/25/2005 9:53 Comments ||
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#19
'London Mayor Ken Livingstone described Mr Menezes as a "victim of the terrorist attacks".
He said: "Consider the choice that faced police officers at Stockwell last Friday - and be glad you did not have to take it." '
I find myself in complete agreement with the above.
#27
U.S. SWAT team snipers are trained to shoot and sever the medulla oblongata. The boomer or perp as it is cannot pull the trigger or detonator. These police officers had a couple of seconds to make a decision. They were brave in that they did not know they would not be blown up. Let's wait and find out more about the Brazillian. Why was he wearing a heavy coat in warm weather. Why did he run? Why did he not stop when commanded? He did understand English from what I understand. Why did he vault a turnstile? Why was he coming out of a house that had been under surveillance for suspected terrorists. The police made a righteous shooting as far as I can tell. The one officer might have to go back to the range for more practice.
kinda makes my suggestion of deportation look tame, no?
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/25/2005 16:19 Comments ||
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#30
Stupidity is a terminal illness. This case proves it.
Howard, what's the chances of getting a gang of renegade Welsh miners to take out the BBC? Seems to me that would warrant a medal or something from Parliament.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
07/25/2005 17:41 Comments ||
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#31
To put Brazilian complaints in context: Police violence has long been a fact of life in Brazil. Amnesty International reports that in 2004 there were 663 killings by officers in Sao Paulo state, and 983 in Rio de Janeiro state.
Three policemen were killed and six Russian regular soldiers wounded in the latest fighting with separatist rebels in Chechnya, a local official said Monday. The six soldiers were injured during 16 separate assaults against military positions over the last 24 hours, the official in the pro-Russian Chechen government told AFP on condition of anonymity. Two policemen were killed when their vehicle came under fire in the Vedeno region, a mountainous rebel stronghold. The body of another policeman was found shot dead on the outskirts of Grozny, the official said. In another incident early Monday the occupants of a vehicle opened fire on a police checkpoint, wounding one policeman. The car was later found abandoned. Two rebels died, apparently while trying to lay explosives outside Grozny, the official said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/25/2005 11:09 ||
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A bomb exploded beneath a train in Russia's violence-plagued Dagestan region on Sunday, killing one person and injuring four others, police said. A powerful explosive device went off under the first car of the train as it headed from the regional capital, Makhachkala, to the town of Khasavyurt, derailing the car and leaving a crater on the track bed, said Akhmed Magomayev, chief of staff of the transport police in Dagestan. A woman who was among five people injured by the blast died on the way to a hospital, Magomayev was quoted as saying by The Associated Press. One of the injured was a guard on the train, he said.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/25/2005 00:00 ||
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France has declared a new policy of tracking down and prosecuting Muslim radicals in the wake of terrorist bombings in London. Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy said the decision was made based on the opinions of the country's anti-terrorist police and judges, who have said the country faces a serious threat from "jihadists," The Times of London reported. "We have decided to put into effect a wide-scale operation for the early screening of the elements of radicalization," Sarkozy said. "When you see the age of the young suicide bombers of London, you see the responsibility of the radical preachers on weak minds and I have no intention of tolerating it." France is home to some 4 million Muslims, many from Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia, and state officials maintain hundreds have been trained abroad in guerrilla tactics to fight in Afghanistan, Chechnya and Iraq.
What's the over-under before a major booming in France?
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 10:15 ||
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#1
Sarkozy's got a little bit of an understanding of what's important and it isn't Danone either.
#2
france hasnt had an attack yet, and the naive attribute this to Frances policies in the ME. Of course France HAS been attacked abroad, french reps in Karachi, and a tanker near Yemen. what has NOT happened is an attack IN France. Which makes me think its NOT the ME policy, but something else France is doing. My suspicion is that the French have the muslim community much more heavily infiltrated with spies and informers than UK does. I mean they have connections deep in North African society since colonial days, and strengthened by their close relationship since 1990 with the current algerian govt. It would stand to reason that some of the migrants to France are folks who were already in the pay of French intell when they were in North Africa. And that France, which has been very nervous about the muslim extremists ever since the Algerian civil war broke out, have been trying to expand that network ever since.
#3
France has not given asylm to nearly as many Jihad preaching clerics as has Britain. Also, the French have not treated the Jihad preachers as rock stars - (e.g., inviting them to prestige events, hosting hate-America/hate-Israel rallies). The London mayor has done all this.
#4
Shows you what you know, LH.
In 1995, there were no less than 3 terrorist bombings in Paris, 2 of which were on the subway system: Link to story
Do you ever research or Google anything before you start shooting off your mouth and posting away?
#5
I often provide strictly facts, however in this instance I did not. Thanks for providing a data point, thats always helpful.
Im not sure it contradicts the rest of what I posted though. The last incident the French had on their soil was 10 years ago, before AQ's big offensive (9/11 and beyond) began. In fact Im not sure if GIA was associated with AQ at that point. However im not trying to argue statistically from the handful of attacks AQ has launched. There simply arent enough anywhere in the West to make a statistical argument. And there could be an attack in Paris tomorrow, that would totally change the numbers upto this point. I was merely speculating on what France is probably doing.
#6
France is almost as much a ticking time bomb, with its hordes of Muslims, than the UK.
There are 6 million Muslims in France (out of a population of 30 million), much more than Britain's 1-3 million out of 60.
France's Muslims have not assimilated and live in marginalized ghettos (les banlieus) where the police are afraid to go.
And unlike any other Western power, France did make Islamist enemies with their brutal "civil" war in Algeria in the 1960's.
In addition, numerous bad guys have chosen to go into exile in France from the Ayatollah to the PLO where they rally the faithful around them.
Sarko's no idiot and knows France has reason to be afraid that Paris will witness another 7/7 or worse.
But the barbarians got in the gate a long time ago.
French police aren't armed and even if they were, their laws are too lenient and there's no death penalty, so the terrorists aren't scared of much there.
If they're not attacking France, it's because they've pretty much taken it over by stealth already.
But to opine that "France has nothing to worry about Islamist terrorists" is just silly.
#9
The hijab ban was window dressing.
It's another instance of "too little, too late."
It would be have effective 20 years ago in "secular" France, but now it's not and it was really enacted to protect Jews from being attacked as it also bans Jewish and Christian jewelry and headwear like Stars of David and yamulkes.
Don't know what you know about France (not much), but they've had an unprecedented number of attacks on Jews and Jewish property since 9/11.
And there's no reason to believe that the French authorities have any "spies" or even tipsters in the Muslim community--That would be regarded by them as the ultimate betrayal, punishable by death.
One of the things the French have really had trouble with are gang rapes in the Muslim ghettoes.
It goes with that wonderful treatment of women that Islamist men are so famous for.
#10
France has not been the focus of islamists because of the significant support it gives to muslim issues -- anti-war in iraq, anti-american, anti-israel, antisemitism. Appeasement in it's finest form. And, as appeasement is destined to do, it will wear off because it level-sets expectations: what was a privilege or an honor once becomes a right later. No billboards with women? Fine. Liquor stores open in muslim communities? Close them. It's a slippery slope. Sure, it's fine now, but if France does anything to upset them, watch out. Recall the hijab incident.
And the fact of the matter is that France can't continue down this path without giving up much of its own culture. And they won't. It's simply a matter of time. Enough French people will, at some point, say "Enough!"
To avert this, Muslims have the choice to:
1. assimilate into the broader culture (which they are loathe to do). Many cultures have done this in the west. For muslims, though, this would provide women with rights, and would allow men to look at porn. Won't happen.
2. remain in enclaves, separate and apart from the broader culture, as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on others (again, which they are loathe to do). Doing this would limit their economic potential and would forever banish them to the ghettos. The sense of entitlement and superiority in the muslim culture wouldn't allow this, either.
3. More and more, enter into prolonged and increasingly violent clashes with the broader culture, trying to islamicize it.
My guess is they'll choose #3. They already have in England, Holland, a bit in Germany and France and are starting in Scandinavia.
As I think about it, one way to change this is to woo the next generation of muslims over to the dark side. Introduce them to the benefits of the west -- luxuries, opportunities, etc. And all the while, show them that their parents are out of touch. Slowly. Gradually. Not directly -- let them come to that conclusion. Once that's in place, let them conclude that radical islam is not in their best interest.
Unless France rescues the next generation of muslims, they are destined to suffer a more and more radicalized and active muslim community.
#12
Since Jennifer is fact checking (which is a good thing!) I should add that France as a population of 60million, not 30 as she said in one of her early posts. According to the cia world factbook. This is a big difference.
As far as knowing how many muslims, there are no real counts for that, but under religion, we get an estimate of 5-10%, which makes it very possible there are ~6million muslims...
As far as the UK, according to the factbook, the population of the UK is 60million also. Muslims make up an estimated 2.7%, say 3 million tops...
So I would agree w/Jennifer that France has a significant problem with Islamists. It may be dormant right now, but rest assured, just like Mt. St. Helens in my own backyard, france will see an eruption soon enough.
Incidently, my grandmother (born and lived in Paris), told me in the early 80's that France was doomed due to it's liberal immigration policy. I of course being in my early 20's, oh so worldly and educated in your typical left leaning university simply thought there were the delusions of a dottering old women in the twilight of her life...
Kick me in the ass, she was right about that, and a whole lot of other things. So listen to your parents AND your grandparents. :=)
Posted by: Francis ||
07/25/2005 12:29 Comments ||
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#13
Francis - here's a Twain quote to throw around that's in line with your sage conclusion:
"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years."
#14
IIRC France has about 61 millions habitants (leaning on 62+), and muslim pop. is evaluated from 3,7 millions (Michèle Tribalat's survey, she is a non-PC demograph but this seem waayy to low) to about 10 millions (the most probable figure, it is estimated there are now 12-15 millions persons of non-european descent, about 80% muslim), official figure being set at 6 millions. It is forbidden by law to use religious or ethnic figure for demographic surveys, which explains this uncertainty.
French birthrate is 1,9, but "ethnic french" are probably at 1,4-1,5, while immigrants birthrate has been evaluated between 3,2 to 4, depending on origin (birthrate is actually higher than in home country, because of social subsidies, next generations are probably lower, but remain higher than below-remplacement "native" birthrate, again), no hard data because of PC.
According to Maxime Tandonnet, one immigration specialist, there are about 400 000 to 500 000 migrants in France each year, most of them africans, 80% muslims (while 50 000 well educated french leave the country, mainly to the USA or England), only 5% of them working immigration as Sarkozy himself IIRC acknowledged, the rest of them being family reunion.
About one third of births are said to be from muslim families (this may be a little alarmist); Sarkozy, in his infinite wisdom during his first stint as interior minister, forbid the publishing of wedding and birth annoucement by mayors... as the ones published in certain regions of France showed a disproportionnate numbers of muslim names.
Time is working for them, and they perfectly know it; assimilation never was an option, and integration has not worked very well, and there is more and more revendications.
Sarkozy seems quite ok with a partage of power (he suggests reforming the 1905 law of separation of State and Church, funding the building of mosques, the formation of imams, with tax money, which would give islam a state-funded status no other religions would have), he's a vocal proponent of muslim affirmative action, he dialogs with the muslim brotherhood, etc, etc... you get the picture.
I wasn't aware that Sarkozy was so accomidating. How sad. And Jennifer, as far as being in Paris in 90/92, I went back around that time to bury my grandmother.
I too was shocked at the decay and apparent decline in the banlieu around the city. I went back to visit the apartment complex in Charenton where they lived for 50+ years, (and I spent summers and a few full years in the late 60's).
The pristine apartments, with their grass courtyards filled with little kids running around were gone, replaced with concrete, grafitti everywhere, and gangs of north african kids haning around. Needless to say I didn't stop.
At least I take solance in the fact I got to enjoy France as a boy, even though I won't take my son there...
Posted by: Francis ||
07/25/2005 12:55 Comments ||
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#18
Merci Fracis
My first name is actually anglo-saxon, Kevin, but thanks anyway Mrs. Taliaferro :-).
You're very right about the criminalization of french muslim, about 75% of crimes are comitted by them (as acknowledged by a MSM mag, "Le Point" IIRC, or was it "L'Express"?), and there is a real climate of insecurity in certain parts of France, not to mention the intifida-like low level "insurrection" (torching cars, schools, stoning of firefighters,...), the religious attacks (vandalized churchs), the antisemitism (only 8% of recorded antisemite acts come from the far right, official figure), and the ubiquitous gangrapes (as seen in Danemark, Norway, Australia,...).
Note that french police DO pack heat, both policemen and gendarmes (paramilitary police) are armed, and some of them have no qualms at all about busting an head or two (the BAC antigang units, or the CRS anti-riot squads, who are actually quite good at what they do)... simply, they are overhelmed, mostly powerless and not backed by justice.
A muslim uprising is quite seriously envisaged by the authorities, french army even has a contingency plan for that, supposedly dubbed "Plan Wacco" (as in the davidians, btw), which was leaked to Algeria a few years ago. See http://www.france-echos.com/actualite.php?cle=1227 (link in french)
Note that immigration in France is increasing steadily; official immigration went from 125 000 in 1995 to 217 000 (children are not counted in that total), only 9% of them european, plus 90 000 asylum seekers (only 10% admitted, the remaining staying in place anyway), at the very least 100 000 illegals. Statisttically the number of foreigners in France doesn't increase, because there are massive naturalization each year.
Again, I don't want to charge Sarkozy, who is at least atlantist and pro-free market (more than most french pols, anyway), but when he talks about "quotas", he actually sez there is the coming need for economic immigration, and therefore plan on increasing immigration, not slowing or stopping it.
#20
LH: Which makes me think its NOT the ME policy, but something else France is doing.
According to a CNN program that aired last week, France has one of the toughest anti-terror laws in Europe. They have one person who acts as both judge and prosecutor (if I understood correctly). So if a search warrant is needed by the police, little time is wasted. And you can imagine what sort of policing power this one person holds. The implication being that terrorist cells have a hard time going about their business in France.
Posted by: Rafael ||
07/25/2005 14:50 Comments ||
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#21
Why should France have to worry? They didn't support the Iraq war. They are peace loving pacifists and are really nice to these terrorists. The terrorists surely won't attack France...
#22
We all agree, France is headed south and is up to no good. Now, why can't I keep hell raiser #2 outa there? Obviously his education is not taking. Sterm measures may be called for. Maybe Cuba.
#23
Let him enjoy it now, Shipman, while the kufr are still allowed in. Besides, this may well be the experience that clears his mind and brings him back to the side of Good. ;-) Just make him read Revel's Anti-Americanism, so that he recognizes what is legitimate discussion and what is simplisme bigotry.
#24
The muzzies are terrible, bad, and nasty people, but they do have the common sense to not bomb France. The first thing France would do is surrender, then what would the muzzies do with all those nasty french liberals.
Posted by: 49 pan ||
07/25/2005 21:18 Comments ||
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The midday threat at Pennsylvania Station arose after someone threw a backpack at an Amtrak ticket agent and said it was a bomb. It was a false alarm, and service on all lines was restored by early afternoon. Amtrak's railroad police detained a man, but it was not announced whether he had been arrested.
#2
Pretty funny, dood. I hope they put you away someplace fetching, say Riker's Island, because you're too stupid to be allowed out in public unsupervised - and medicated.
Anyone taking bets on his political preferences / associations? Can you say "selected, not elected"?
#3
NYPD has no sense of humor when it comes to stuff like this. Perhaps his paperwork could get lost, it's a really big prison system they've got there, accidents do happen.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 8:54 Comments ||
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Posted by: Fred ||
07/25/2005 00:00 ||
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Those arrested included Luisa Medrano, 50, of Cliffside Park, N.J., a suspected ringleader. A U.S. citizen and native of El Salvador, Miss Medrano is the owner of three bars in Union City, N.J., and Guttenberg, N.J., where the young women worked, the indictment said. She also owned three multi-unit buildings in Union City, where the women were forced to live while they worked to pay off their smuggling debts, it said.
Can you say, "stripped of citizenship", and "assets seized and sold off"?
DAMASCUS - Syria has extradited to Saudi Arabia 12 âextremistsâ linked to a killed Tunisian militant who it said had planned to set up a training camp for militants on Lebanese territory, the state news agency SANA said on Monday.
Normally it's the Saudis running the camps training Tunisian cannon fodder.
The agency did not state explicitly that the 12 were Saudi nationals or say when they were handed over, but said it was the first of several planned extraditions of an unspecified number of militants to their countries of origin. âThe Syrian authorities have started to extradite a number of extremists who are in their custody and who belong to several Arab nationalities to their respective countries,â SANA said.
I'll take that as a "Yes".
It said the militants had been involved in a clash on the Syrian-Lebanese border on June 22, when a Tunisian identified by the media as Majdi bin Mohammed bin Said Al Zreibi was killed. The agency, which referred to the Tunisian only by his initials, (MbMbSAZ) said he had âplanned to establish a camp for training extremists on Lebanese territoryâ, without saying if the purpose was to train volunteers for the anti-U.S. insurgency in Iraq.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 14:48 ||
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Sounds like the 12 guys needed some R&R.
Posted by: Matt ||
07/25/2005 15:05 Comments ||
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#2
Can't wait to hear the endless complaints about them being sent to countries that practice torture.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/25/2005 15:14 Comments ||
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#3
catch and release, ME style
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/25/2005 15:18 Comments ||
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#4
Well I suppose they will be given a warm welcome and some walking around money and sent on their way. SA is doing nothing to stop these fools. I really think they are encouraging thses guys to leave in hopes they will get killed a solve some of the surplus Jihadi problem that is a threat the royals.
BEIRUT, Lebanon, July 25 (UPI) -- A small bomb exploded Monday under the car of a former member of Lebanon branch of Syria's ruling Baath party south of Beirut, causing minor damage. Police said the car of Wajih Jaafar was parked outside his house in the village of Beshatfin when a man threw the bomb under the vehicle early Monday. The blast caused minor damage to the car.
This is what you call a "hint" in Lebanon. Jaafar should consider relocating.
On Friday, a similar bomb exploded under a car parked in a crowded street in Beirut, injuring 12 people.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 09:20 ||
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Oops, better move to Syria...
12 months later...
Oops, better move to, uh, um, oops - no more Ba'athist enclaves. You're fucked. So sad.
A key suspect in the July 7 transit bombings in London has long been wanted by U.S. authorities for prosecution in this country, particularly after federal officials developed evidence three years ago that he was trying to help establish a terrorist training camp on the West Coast to wage war against Americans. But federal investigators said they did not locate Haroon Rashid Aswat, a British Muslim of Indian descent, even after they agreed to give his alleged collaborator in Seattle a light prison sentence in the hope that the man would lead them to him.
Justice Department officials in Washington said Sunday that the Seattle man, Earnest James Ujaama, had been extremely helpful in putting together an indictment against another London Muslim, Egyptian cleric Abu Hamza al Masri, but that he had not led them directly to Aswat. Had they found Aswat, officials conceded, it might have prevented the deadly London attacks on three subway trains and a bus that killed 52 people, plus the four suicide bombers. Investigators in Britain believe that Aswat had perhaps as many as 20 cellphone conversations with some of the London suicide bombers. But U.S. authorities questioned a report in Sunday's Seattle Times quoting unnamed current and former federal officials as saying that Washington had blocked Aswat's indictment in Seattle. "That's obviously not true," one senior Justice Department official with intimate knowledge of the Seattle case said Sunday. "There were plenty of terrorism cases handled around the country â in Buffalo, in Chicago, in North Carolina. The districts where the suspects or targets resided is generally where they were prosecuted."
But, he said, indictments of suspects living abroad were usually assigned to the U.S. attorney's office in New York, which specializes in extraditing them to this country for trial. Jim Neff, investigations editor for the Seattle Times, said the paper stood behind its report.
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/25/2005 09:53 ||
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It appears that the networks are continuously "testing" all possibilities for any inroad, future venture for possible "terrorism factor" and skillfully manipulating the tension of the fishing line patiently, skillfully, noting each response and responder then with maximum exposure cutting the line and with it all the fish caught on it. The spin doctors who have invested the time and money on this "fishing excursion" sponsored by the "network" buff the progress notes with a high shine so the result is a always a success and the participants trophy winners. Tarpin fishing for terrorists. Corporately sponsored, government sanctioned, and paid for by the taxed citizen. Fighting terroism should be a black bag operation without corporate review. America has alway been good at hiding the truth with misdirection, planted stories in the media, and corruption on every level well guess what folks. You have competition on a global scale with unlimited funds and a suicidal following with a documented "ground-zero effect." God help the innocent mothers and children continually seeing this play unfold in their streets and in the lives. There are no disbelievers in foxholes.
Actually, somewhere between six and 11 percent of American foxhole denizens are atheists. And yet they manage to do their bit for the team without flinching anyway.
DEBKAfileâs terrorism sources note Al Qaeda struck in Sharm al Sheikh Friday night, July 22, just 24 hours after US secretary of state Rice landed in the Middle East. At least 59 people were killed, 200 wounded in a series of al Qaeda car bomb attacks minutes apart. Britons, Dutch, Spaniards, Qataris, Kuwaitis and Egyptians were among the casualties. One Israeli was initially reported with minor injuries. Egyptian police say there were 4 to 7 car bombs â starting at the Old Market area and following in Naama Bay near the Ghazala Gardens and Moevenpick hotels. The bars and market were packed. People fleeing from one explosion were trapped in another.
Last October, al Qaeda struck resorts in northern Sinai resorts including Taba Hilton killing 34, among them 13 Israelis. On July 15, DEBKA-Net-Weekly 214 reported that al Qaeda was diluting its Iraq force for a major terror offensive in Europe and Middle East engineered by Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and on its recommendation. The countries targeted were named as Britain, Italy, France, Denmark, Russia â with the UK and Italy at the top of the list; and, In the Middle East, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Israel. Zarqawi in one recent release: Israel is in our sights â and very soon.
Al Qaedaâs ability to carry out tightly coordinated strings of attacks very close together in different parts of the world has shocked many terrorism experts. According to our sources, the organizationâs networks are now operating across the Middle East, Europe and West Africa from a headquarters established by Zarqawi in Iraqâs western province of Anbar. This large area bordering Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia has passed under his control. To relay operatives, instructions, explosives and funds to the bomber teams on the ground, the Jordanian terrorist is working with Middle East criminal smuggling rings linked to European and African mafias.
Continued on Page 49
According to intelligence estimates, Zarqawi holds on to Anbar â a territory roughly the size of Texas - with a little more than 5,000 men, of whom roughly 1,000 are Saudi and Yemeni zealots, 300 Jordanian and an unknown number of Syrians, Moroccans and Palestinians. His firm grip on Anbar persuaded the al Qaeda hierarchy in Pakistan and Afghanistan that 1,000 men could be expended from other parts of Iraq and diverted to the new terror offensive outside Iraq.
Checking the net, Al-Anbar has a surface area of 33,000 square miles, and Texas has a surface area of 268,601 square miles.
This is a size difference of a factor of eight.
Is "Verlaine in Iraq" around?
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
07/25/2005 8:51 Comments ||
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#2
NAGCJ* for sure, Phil.
*Numerically And Geographically Challenged Journalist
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/25/2005 9:16 Comments ||
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#3
Well, this particular item is from Debka. I forget, are we believing Debka this week?
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
07/25/2005 9:23 Comments ||
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#4
Well, waddya want? He thinks "a long way" is Wall Street to the mid-80s. It's bigger than Rhode Island, so it's the size of one of those states you fly over.
#5
phil_b, yes I'm around ..... I think I commented briefly on a similar item in the last few days .... I can't add to or dispute most of this, but the idea of a "grip on Anbar" doesn't sound right .... Zarqawi and his merry band have had their hands full for a long time trying to survive and operate in Iraq, and hardly have a "grip" on any sizeable territory .... the untold story this item touches on is the key role played by criminal networks in ostensibly religious/ideological/political terrorism, especially in Iraq .... that's worth a look, but I find the idea that AQ-Iraq can "spare" resources to attack Europe implausible
#6
Oh, well, yeah, VAI, but that's because you don't know what the MSM does! They know the Iraq war is breeding little Jihadis by the zillions, training then in urban warfare and subway booming, and making the whole world less safe.
That's their story, and they're sticking to it!
Now you know.
Oh, my son was there (Anbar) last winter. Nobody has a grip on it!
Posted by: Bobby ||
07/25/2005 10:17 Comments ||
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#7
33,000 square miles. So what state IS that closest to?
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/usa/states/area.shtml
has is at between Maine and South Carolina, ranked 39 and 40th. Fine states indeed, but not Texas at all.
Posted by: Dave ||
07/25/2005 11:57 Comments ||
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#8
Hi Verlaine! Thanks for your comment.
Can you talk about where you're stationed in Iraq, and what you're doing, or is that going to have to wait for your memoirs?
Regarding Al-Anbar Province: I was under the impression that while it was big, the population itself was pretty much concentrated along the Euphrates and the road to Damascus. For practical purposes, is that correct?
It also seems strange that the media is now talking about Al-Anbar as if it's the source of everything, and ignoring the problems faced in pacifying Al-Anbar thanks to infiltration from Syria.
(And as an aside, I'm not Phil_b. I used to joke that I had dibs on being the "evil Phil," but I'm beginning to wonder if maybe he's the "Plan B" Phil, ready to step in at a moment's notice should I get hit by a truck...)
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
07/25/2005 13:44 Comments ||
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An Iraqi government newspaper said Saturday that toppled President Saddam Hussein was expected to be sentenced and executed within weeks. The government-financed al-Sabah daily quoted unidentified sources close to a special court hearing Saddam's case that the verdict will be issued in the next three weeks against the former leader and his top former aides.
Did they outsource the proceedings to the Bangladesh Speedy Trial Tribunal?
The sources said they expected the first death penalty against the former regime officials to be handed to Saddam after the special court convicts him on 12 charges of "crimes against humanity." The court last week completed its questioning of Saddam over his role in the alleged killing of 150 residents from al-Dujail by the security forces of his regime after a foiled assassination attempt against Saddam in the area in 1992.
"Guilty! Next case."
"Your honor, next case is 'People of Iraq versus Majid'."
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 16:13 ||
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If true...
Imagine the coming Hue and Cryâ¢. Apologists the world over will go apeshit... and the Sunnis and remaining Ba'athists will have a monumental case of cognitive dissonance not seen since, well, wince Uday and Qusay had their Bonnie & Clyde moment.
#19
Mucky, the best information I have been able to Google so far is that the use of capital punishment was suspended by the US Central Command as Saddam Hussein was ousted from power. However, the interim Iraq government re-instated the death penalty on August 8, 2004 for a limited range of crimes including murder, kidnapping, rape, drug offences and threats to national security. The prescribed method of execution is hanging or shooting (firing squad?).
#20
I hope it is filmed, so future generations can learn from his murderous history and miserable end. Same as the Ceaucescus (anyone have an online video of that?).
Ceaucescu's death was broadcast on Romanian TV as a way of breaking the resistance of the Securitate. Saddam should have been tried and executed a long time ago. They should do the same with high-level terrorists and Baathists they catch. Make them sing then wrap them in pigskin and execute them on tv.
Heads of killed enemy leaders used to be displayed on pikes for a good reason.
#22
I'd still prefer the treatment Macduff proposed to Macbeth:
Then yield thee, coward,
And live to be the show and gaze o' the time:
We'll have thee, as our rarer monsters are,
Painted upon a pole, and underwrit,
"Here may you see the tyrant."
#23
Where is Vlad the Impaler when you need him? He could shove a sharpened pole up your ass and out your mouth so that you lived for about three days. Just hanging out.
Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has announced he is moving his office to Gaza until the completion of Israel's withdrawal from the territory. He said he would be co-ordinating the Palestinian side of the withdrawal, and mediating between different factions.
He wants to be in place to take credit. Hamas may have other ideas.
I hope he's brought his bullet-proof vest...
The run-up to the pullout has seen renewed clashes involving militants, Palestinian police and Israeli forces. Israel, which has occupied Gaza since 1967, plans to start evacuating all 21 settlements in about three weeks' time.
At which point it's all over but the shootin'...
Mr Abbas has been based in Ramallah in the West Bank, since his election following the death of Yasser Arafat. "I'm going now to Gaza to stay for the entire disengagement period to follow all the details about the disengagement from Gaza," Mr Abbas told Palestinian radio. "I will have contact with all the Palestinian parties."
The only question being which way the guns will be pointed
The BBC's Alan Johnston in Gaza says Mr Abbas has clearly decided he needs to be at the centre of the action, co-ordinating the Palestinian side of the process. Our correspondent says the Palestinian leader will be trying to persuade militants to stick to an unofficial ceasefire and refrain from attacking the departing Israelis. Hamas gunmen have been involved in clashes with Palestinian Authority security forces after the militants launched rocket attacks on Israel. That is perhaps another good reason for Mr Abbas to base himself here through what may be a hot and difficult political summer, says our correspondent.
If Hamas tries to wack him in Gaza before the Israelis finish pulling out, he's hoping the IDF will protect him. Not a bad plan.
He's the safest man in the Middle East until the day after the Israelis finish their withdrawal.
He adds that Mr Abbas wants the pullout to lead to fresh peace talks with Israel and further withdrawals from occupied land. But he says that is less likely to happen if the Gaza withdrawal is a bloody and bitter affair.
Which it will be.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 15:29 ||
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He said he would be co-ordinating the Palestinian side of the withdrawal,..
What's there to coordinate? All that really needs to be done is to leave the Israelis alone, and Mazen has already demonstrated that he can't even get terror organizations stationed on his territory to do THAT.
#2
they'll be there, throwing rocks at the back of the last tanks and APC's, claiming they drove the Joooos out, just like So. Lebanon. Call it "instant historical revisionism"
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/25/2005 16:40 Comments ||
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#3
Watch out for a patented Bobby Lee double back and trap some rats maneouver.
BAGHDAD/CAIRO - Saddamâs half brother Barzan Al Tikriti and his cousin Ali Hassan Al Majid (âChemical Aliâ) have made statements incriminating the former dictator during preparations for the trial against him and former aides, the examining judge said, according to the al-Sharq al-Awsat on Monday.
I knew the rats would start pointing fingers at each other, trying to save their own necks. Not that it's gonna save these two.
The former Iraqi foreign minister, Tariq Aziz, had also incriminated Saddam in a statement, the magistrate Raed Jouhi told the Arab daily in an interview.
He might just be able to stay alive if he cooperates
I'd let him think that now and every day, right up to the morning of his execution. "Say Tariq, you know the sounds of carpentry outside your cell last night? Guess what?"
Al Majid, who is charged with a chemical weapons attack on the Kurdish town of Halabjah, said during a hearing that he had done nothing âwithout an order from Saddam Hussein himselfâ. The trials against functionaries in Saddamâs regime would begin within a month, Jouhi said. Jouhi stressed that Saddam has denied several accusations against him and had not been forced to make any confessions during interrogation. âHe has not been put under pressure from any side,â he added. The former Iraqi president is in US custody although he is officially a prisoner of the Iraqi justice system.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 14:34 ||
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and without their testimony he would've walked?
Nails #2,754,908 and 2,754,909 in his coffin
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/25/2005 15:06 Comments ||
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Who gets to keep the fingernails and teeth that were extracted during interrogation? Will they be sold on EBay?
"Gold Crown of Left Lower Molar of the Infamous Chemical Ali of Iraq"
Bidding starts at $1,000.00!
MIRANSHAH, Pakistan - A Pakistani army major was wounded early on Monday as militants unleashed a barrage of more than 30 rockets on four different army locations near the Afghan border, security officials said. Another army officer was slightly injured when a remote-controlled bomb hit his patrol convoy overnight in the violence-plagued tribal region being used as a hideout by Al Qaeda and Taleban-linked insurgents, they said.
The overnight rocket attacks started around 11:00 pm (1800 GMT) Sunday and continued intermittently until 4:00 am Monday, a security official said on condition of anonymity. Troops in retaliatory strikes arrested three suspected militants, one of whom was wounded, one security official said. At least seven rockets targeted a checkpoint outside Miranshah, the main town in the tribal North Waziristan region, wounding the army major. Seven rockets each also hit near the Saidgai and Shawal check posts. And about a dozen rockets struck near a troop base in Razmak, damaging a nearby telephone exchange but causing no casualties.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 14:06 ||
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red on red violence - friendly fire's always terrible ...
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/25/2005 14:40 Comments ||
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Allah be cursed upon you, Ahmed!
I told you to point the rockets northward towards the Americans, not southward you goat's unwashed ass!
EFL: KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - Militants attacked a patrol by U.S. and Afghan troops in the country's south Monday, setting off a gunbattle that killed one American soldier, one Afghan soldier and 11 of the rebels, the U.S. military said. The U.S. military also said six U.S. troops were wounded Sunday in a roadside bombing elsewhere in the country.
In Monday's deadly assault in a small village in Uruzgan province's Dihrawud district, three American troops and an Afghan soldier were wounded, a military statement said. U.S. fighter jets and attack helicopters responded to the assault and pounded militant positions, it said. Eight insurgents were captured and four rocket-propelled grenades and two assault rifles were seized.
The wounded were rushed to a nearby base for treatment and one of the injured Americans was later flown to Germany for additional medical care. Another was taken to the main base in the country's south, while the third was treated and released, the statement said. "This tragic loss strengthens our resolve to further the advance of a democratic Afghanistan. We extend our prayers and condolences to the family of our service member, and we share their loss," said U.S. Army Brig. Gen. Jack Sterling, deputy commanding general of Combined Joint Task Force-76.
The death brings to 173 the number of U.S. troops killed in and around Afghanistan since Operation Enduring Freedom began in 2001. The latest death came a day after another U.S. service member was killed in a firefight in neighboring Helmand province. The roadside bombing that wounded six U.S. troops was in the same mountainous area where a commando team was ambushed and a special forces helicopter shot down last month.
Militants opened fire at the U.S. convoy after the blast in Kunar province's Asadabad district, prompting U.S. forces to launch airstrikes and artillery fire against suspected enemy positions, a separate U.S. military statement said. It was not immediately known whether any insurgents were killed or wounded, it said.
The wounded U.S. troops were in stable condition after being taken to an airfield in nearby Parwan province for medical treatment. "We are aggressively looking for the individuals responsible for this attack," said U.S. army spokesman Lt. Col. Jerry O'Hara.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 12:02 ||
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US and Afghan forces have captured seven suspected militants following a weekend attack in southern Afghanistan in which one American soldier was killed, the US military said Monday. The men were suspected of being involved in Sunday's attack by up to 20 insurgents on a joint US-Afghan military patrol in Helmand province in a clash that also left one militant dead. "Seven suspected enemy combatants have been captured in southern Afghanistan as Afghan and US forces continue to search for the people responsible for an attack by 15 to 20 individuals yesterday," the military said in a statement.
Another American soldier and a coalition interpreter, as well as two enemy fighters, were wounded in the gunfight in the Ghrishk district of Helmand, some 520 kilometres (325 miles) southwest of Kabul on Sunday. The deaths bring the number of US troops killed by hostile fire in and around Afghanistan to 37 since the beginning of the year compared to 23 in 2004, according to the defense department statistics. This includes 16 killed when Taliban rebels shot down a Chinook helicopter in the eastern province of Kunar, the department's website said. Another 22 US troops have died in accidents or from other causes this year.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 11:28 ||
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They are only suspected militants. They might be pacifists carrying AKs.
Fugitive Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar has called on supporters to put aside differences and continue their war against the government and foreign forces in Afghanistan, the Taliban said on Monday. Omar made the call recently in a message via field radio to the Taliban's leadership council, which has been expanded to 18 members, Taliban spokesman Abdul Latif Hakimi said. A recording of the message purporting to come from Omar was handed over to Reuters in the southern city of Kandahar on Monday by a man who did not identify himself. In it Omar said: "Unite, and do not disagree, continue your jihad (holy war) and victory will be yours."
Hakimi, who spoke himself from an undisclosed location, did not say where the message was recorded. He said the leadership council, which previously numbered ten men, now had eight new members, based on a decision by Omar. Neither he nor the message named the new members.
In the message, Omar told Taliban guerrillas not to harass people while waging war against President Hamid Karzai's government and U.S.-led foreign forces. "Carry out your works quietly," he said. Omar did not elaborate on the disagreements he referred to in the call for unity, or the reference to harassing people.
The message is one of only a few from Omar issued to the media. In a written message in March, he dismissed U.S. military claims that he was no longer in control of the insurgency and vowed to step up attacks attacks on Afghan and U.S. forces. Hundreds of people have died, many of them guerrillas, but also many local government officials, police officers and Afghan and foreign troops.
I guess killing them doesn't count as harassing them
The dead have included 36 US soldiers killed in action, making it the bloodiest period for US forces in Afghanistan.
Most of the violence has been in areas near the border with Pakistan and Afghan officials have repeatedly complained that Taliban attacks are mostly organised in Pakistan. Pakistan was the Taliban's main supporter until Sept. 11, but became a major U.S. ally in its war on terror. Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz visited Kabul on Sunday and pledged that Islamabad would do all it could to stop infiltration of militants ahead of the elections. Last week, however, Pakistani police said security forces arrested a handful of Taliban officials from a refugee camp northwest of Islamabad.
Pakistani newspapers quoted unnamed sources as saying that Mawlavi Abdul Kabir -- a deputy of Omar -- was among them, but senior Pakistani officials were unable to confirm this.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/25/2005 10:42 ||
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A potential new recruiting tool? Join up, and we'll put you on the Council!
Posted by: Bobby ||
07/25/2005 12:04 Comments ||
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Why is Guy Pearce wearing a turban? I can understand the beard, which I saw in that cannibal movie he starred in, but the turban is a weird touch.
#3
"Unite, and do not disagree, continue your jihad (holy war) and victory will be yours."
Note that it's "your" and "yours" and that Omar has been reduced to speaking to his own council by field radio. All good signs.
Let us know when you get to 52, Mohammad, and we'll give you a deck just like Saddam's.
Posted by: Neutron Tom ||
07/25/2005 14:40 Comments ||
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Ummm... did Mullah "One-Eyed-Jack" Omar by any chance issue forth his commands from an ISI-Paki-Skank-Land Joint Operations' Army base in Pakiland?
#5
I think the comments perfectly bracket the Taliban. Now when we shrug off the PakiWaki "help", lol, and both approve a hot pursuit / hot tip ROE and put the ISI on the terrorist list we'll get somewhere.
Egyptian police exchanged fire with gunmen today as they hunted for six Pakistanis suspected of involvement in deadly bombings in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh on Saturday. The firefight with Bedouin gunmen erupted in the mountainous interior of the Sinai peninsula some 30 kilometres from the scene of Saturday's carnage on the coast, security officials said. It came after police surrounded the nearby villages of Khurum and Rweissat in overnight raids, they said. 'Two Pakistanis had been staying there and it is suspected that the bombs were assembled in this area,' an intelligence source said.
Pictures of the six Pakistanis believed to have entered Egypt in early July were distributed to police stations in the Sharm el-Sheikh area after the attacks, which followed an earlier bombing spree in Sinai resorts in October. Their passports were found in an unspecified Sharm el-Sheikh hotel, police said, adding that one of them may have died in the deadly bombings but stressing that the Pakistanis were not necessarily the bombers. Pakistani authorities said they had yet to be approached by their Egyptian counterparts about the six suspects. Pictures of more than 30 other suspects were also distributed, mostly Egyptians as well as internationally wanted terror suspects. At least 130 people have been arrested in a police dragnet as part of a massive search for the perpetrators of the attack on a hotel, a market and a parking lot.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
07/25/2005 10:31 ||
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Pakistanis are quickly making themselves equal with Chechens in the world-wide persona non grata contest
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/25/2005 12:04 Comments ||
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Sunni Arab members of a committee drafting Iraq's new constitution have ended their boycott, six days after they walked out to protest at the assassinations of two fellow Sunni constitution commissioners. The Sunni decision lifted the threat that the country's new constitution would be a product of only two of three major Iraqi ethnic and religious groups, leaving out the Sunni Arabs who form the core of the insurgency and thus failing to provide hope of a political exit from the incessant violence gripping the country. A spokesman said six of the 12 Sunnis on the committee rejoined their colleagues at a meeting. The others were absent because they lived too far from Baghdad or had other personal commitments.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 10:01 ||
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The Sunnis seem to change their position more often than Oprah changes diet plans.
Algerian troops killed three Muslim extremist gunmen and captured a fourth in an attack in western Algeria in which one soldier died, reports said Monday. The daily al-Khabar said the army conducted a search Sunday in the western province of Mediya, where they located a group of gunmen, killing three and capturing a fourth after he was injured. A soldier was also killed in the operation, which targeted gunmen from the Salafi Group for Daawa and Fighting, Algeria's most feared armed organization.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 09:29 ||
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ALGIERS, Algeria, July 25 (UPI) -- Algeria's Muslim extremist Salafi Group for Daawa and Fighting Monday applauded the kidnapping of two Algerian diplomats in Iraq. The group said in a statement carried on its Web site that it welcomed the kidnapping of the diplomats of the "atheist Algerian regime which is trying to veil its support for the crusaders in Iraq while stabbing the Iraqi people in the back."
"In that happy occasion the Salafi Group for Daawa and Fighting in Algeria congratulates the brothers in the al-Qaida organization in Mesopotamia for avenging the bloodletting of Muslims and the occupation of Muslim land by crusaders," the statement said. It vowed to "keep up the jihad until the liberation of the whole land of Islam."
The Algerian foreign ministry said its charge d'affaires in Baghdad Ali Belaroussi and the diplomatic attache, Ezzedine Belkadi, were kidnapped in the Iraqi capital last Thursday.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 09:27 ||
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Egyptian police are searching for six Pakistani men who were in Sharm el-Sheik during the attacks that killed 88 people and have since disappeared. Police announced that they have also found the remains of what they believe may be a Pakistani man at the Ghazla Gardens Hotel, where a suicide car bomb attack was carried out early on Saturday. The photographs of six missing Pakistani men who were staying at a Sharm hotel and had left their passports at the reception have been circulated at checkpoints in the southern Sinai Peninsula resort city.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
07/25/2005 04:38 ||
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Time for Perv to risk it all in an out and out assault on the ISI bad boyz. Would stand a good chance of turning up Uncle Osama as well.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/25/2005 5:20 Comments ||
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Not much chance of that Howard. The only reason Perv has survived so far is that the ISI itself hasn't tried to kill himm, only jihadi boyz (likely at the behest of the ISI).
#3
Some years ago when Nawaz Sharif was PM of Pakistan, he had a meeting with Egyptian President Mubarak. Mubarak presented him with intelligence on the terror camps where egyptian jihadists were being trained and demanded that he close them down.
He made the normal Pak excuse, "that area is tribal and not really under our control".
Mubarak was quite angry. He wanted to know how it was possible that Pakistan could not control what was going on in its own territory.
Exasperated, he asked "What is the problem? Do you want me to send the Egyptian army to do the job?"
Posted by: john ||
07/25/2005 7:26 Comments ||
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Pakiland - No Problem. It's all quite tribal actually. A traditional disorganized society that honours age old violent cultural/character faults.
#5
I don't think the Beeb have realised that 'tribal' can have negative connotations as yet. Expect the tribal areas to be renamed 'regions of indigenous population' or some sort of madness. Interesting observation John. I think bot the Blair and Mubarak are about to hear that old chestnut again. Time for Perv to put the Pakistani house in order.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/25/2005 9:24 Comments ||
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#6
Six pak?
Posted by: Captain America ||
07/25/2005 12:36 Comments ||
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Twenty-five people were killed yesterday when a suicide bomber blew up a truck full of explosives outside a police station in Baghdad, Iraqi officials said, but the US military put the death toll at 40. âThe bodies of the victims, many of whom were policemen, were completely burned by the blast,â an Interior Ministry official said, adding that 33 others were wounded.
The US military, citing initial Iraqi police reports, said 40 people were killed, but police said they were uncertain where the figure came from. The US military said the suicide bomber used a semi-truck loaded with 220 kilograms of explosives. Twenty-two cars, 10 shops and a residential building were set ablaze in the massive explosion outside Al-Rashid police station in the Al-Mashtel neighborhood in the southeast of the capital. âIt appears that the bomber who was driving the truck wanted to enter the police station, but for some reason the explosives detonated 20 meters before the police station,â the official said, adding that US and Iraqi security forces had cordoned off the area. It was the deadliest attack in Iraq since a suicide bomber blew himself up near a Shiite mosque on July 16 in the central city of Musayyib, igniting a fuel tanker and killing nearly 100 people.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/25/2005 00:00 ||
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Ever notice it's ALWAYS "the deadliest attack since"...Ever notice that when OUR soldiers do something extraordinary, it's never the "biggest catch of terrorists since" or "more terrorists were killed than since..." Wonder if there might be an agenda that little discrepancy?
Police detained scores more people, mostly prayer leaders, over the weekend as part of a continuing crackdown on extremists following the London bombings, officials said on Sunday. At least 210 were detained in the Punjab after Friday prayers and on Saturday, but 125 were freed on bail after pledging not to violate restrictions.
"Dig deep, Brethren and Sistern! Our holy man's gotta make bail again!"
Among them were 56 people who had been charged with making âprovocative speechesâ at Friday congregations, while 10 more were being held for selling audio cassettes and CDs of fiery speeches by clerics.
"Fiery speeches" seems to be Urdu for "spittle-spewing rants."
Posted by: Fred ||
07/25/2005 00:00 ||
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Why am I unimpressed?
So which Western hotel will they be staying at while the "roundup" proceeds? Are they receiving complimentary fruit baskets, courtesy of the ISI? Will those who haven't been kicking back the expected zakat percentage be handled roughly when they check out?
#4
They're going to start slowly, mucky. First, there will be turban registration. Then, you'll need to get a license to own a turban. There will be a limit to the number of turbans you can buy in a month, and a 15 day waiting period to buy a turban.
Next, they will insist that all turbans be stored unwrapped in a locked wardrobe. Then, there will be rules prohibiting the wearing of turbans near schools or in public buildings.
The National Turban Association will, of course, fight these laws.
Two bombs exploded in a house in Gilgit on Sunday night. However, no information was available on the number of casualties. The bombs went off in a journalistâs house within the city police station precincts, according to the report. According to residents of the house, unknown individuals entered through the front door and placed three bombs in the house while the occupants were having dinner. The terrorists fled as two of the three bombs went off immediately, whereas the third did not explode, sources said. The police had reportedly started an investigation into the incident.
Ibrahim Shahid adds from Gilgit: Law enforcement agencies have detained as many as 43 activists of various religious parties for alleged involvement in sectarian violence in Gilgit over the past week. Official sources said the suspects had been arrested during several raids. They said that a wave of violence started last Sunday after a passenger bus was ambushed near Chilas. Five passengers were killed and six were injured in the ambush. Six more were killed in revenge attacks, which left Gilgit paralysed for six days.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/25/2005 00:00 ||
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An Afghan national was killed and four people were injured on Sunday in a bomb blast near the Pak-Afghan border. Chaman Administrative Officer Rafiq Tareen said that the man killed in the explosion blast was believed to be the bomber who was planting the explosive when it went off near Chaman, about 125 kilometres northwest of Quetta. The device exploded close to a Pakistani immigration office, near the Friendship Gate between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Witnesses said that blood and the bomber's body parts were strewn across the scene of the blast near the immigration checkpoint. The four injured, including a 22-year-old woman, who were all passers-by, where rushed to hospital.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/25/2005 00:00 ||
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A firefight on Sunday between US forces and militants left an American soldier dead and another wounded, while an insurgent was also killed and two others injured in the battle in southern Afghanistan, the US military said. Between 15 and 20 militants attacked the US patrol in Helmand province's Gereshk district, the military said in a statement. An interpreter employed by the American forces was also wounded in the attack. The wounded US soldier and the interpreter, as well as the two wounded insurgents, were transported to Kandahar Airfield for treatment. The other rebels fled the area after the attack and US ground troops and attack aircraft were searching for them. The name of the deceased soldier was withheld pending notification of his family.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/25/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
God rest you well, soldier, and our heartfelt thanks to you and your family for the gift of your service.
#3
It's from the heart, smn. The most warlike thing I've ever done is to offer my mite here, in the hope that those cleverer than I will find it useful. My parents did their bit during WWII and (Daddy) Israel's war of independence, and I suspect at least one of the trailing daughters will do her bit for the war on terror. But words are about all I have to offer, except for the occasional care package. And tea, of course, for those who'd like it. ;-)
Posted by: Fred ||
07/25/2005 00:00 ||
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Sheesh. Except for the idiotic blather about the UN and blah3, he almost gets it right. You continue the process because it's the right thing to do, not that drivel about external obligations, Zabari. And Talabani, you are well beyond being a mere disappointment, you're a fool.
Amazing how spineless the world has become - and how contagious it is. Grab a clue, already. This attitude must be part 'n parcel of how they were dominated for decades and why having your golden opportunity handed to you on a silver platter does not bring out the best in a given population. The Wolf Brigade leader should be running the place, not wimpy cheesedicks like Zabari, Talabani, and Jaafar.
I know everything is proceeding apace, but I am losing much of my enthusiasm for the Iraqi "govt". They seem congenitally lame and apologetic. Essentially unworthy of the sacrifices made on their behalf. Oh well, it had to be tried. We shall see if they catch on before they implode in a daisy-chain of tranzi fellatio.
Personal Truism: If you walk around with your hat in your hand, someone will put your head in it.
#3
I think Talabani is a president in the European model, the constitutional head and not an elected official with legislative powers as in the US model. He is required to unify all sectors rather represent his electors and implement hism program. In theis context his remarks are expected.
#7
Without the input of Sunni leaders, the constitution could be rejected by Sunni voters, who would then also boycott the elections for a full-term government...
Sounds like Pappy's right - they could devolve into Paleos.
Posted by: Bobby ||
07/25/2005 9:05 Comments ||
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#8
I bet, just like with the elections, once they see the boat is leaving without them they'll scramble to keep up. This sounds like a lot of huffing and puffing to me, or the indignant whining of some petulant brat who now has to share his toys with his visiting cousins.
Posted by: Dar ||
07/25/2005 9:58 Comments ||
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#9
So the Sunnis - like all brats everywhere - threaten to take their ball and go home if they're not catered to.
One problem - they're already home, and it's not their ball anyway.
Whatcha gonna do now, idiots? Prolonged thumbsucking can damage your teeth.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/25/2005 18:33 Comments ||
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CAIRO: Egypt launched a vast manhunt on Sunday after the multiple bombings in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh that killed 88 people and fuelled global terror fears after the London attacks. Egypt's deadliest attacks, that came at the peak of the tourist season and killed at least nine foreigners, drew a barrage of condemnation from around the world and dealt a blow to a regime increasingly exposed to Islamist terrorism just weeks ahead of a landmark presidential election. The bombings, claimed by an Al Qaeda group, sent chills through a world still reeling from a series of attacks in London.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/25/2005 00:00 ||
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Fat lot of good that'll do, if they are looking for Beduins, when it's Al Qaeda that's taken credit for the booms.
#2
It has been reported that they are seeking around a half dozen Paki's at the moment. But remember that whatever happens, Paki's have nothing to do with it, right?
#4
"and one bush on fire that keeps burning without ever consuming the bush. Strangest thing you ever did see. Almost like someone was sending a sign, or something"
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 13:00 Comments ||
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Does Phil_B know about this bush? I'd like his input. Seems to contrary to certain principles of thermodynamics.
COXâS BAZAR: Bangladeshi forces fought gun battles with Myanmar rebel groups and destroyed several camps in a series of raids this month along the heavily forested border between the two countries, security officials said on Sunday. âTwenty-six fugitive rebels from Myanmar, along with huge weapons and ammunition including 31 AK-47 rifles, were arrested during the raids,â a senior official of Bangladesh Rifles, (BDR), border guards said. No Bangladeshi troops were injured and rebel casualties could not be ascertained, he said.
In the latest incident, a rebel camp was destroyed following an hour-long encounter on Saturday afternoon at a forest near Naikkongchhari, 400 km southeast of Dhaka. âFour anti-personnel mines and 16,000 rounds of ammunition were recovered and a rebel was arrested in the latest raid on Saturday,â Lieutenant Colonel MA Awal of BDR told Reuters. Rebel groups with different political ideologies, and operating in Myanmarâs western state of Arakan, often set up temporary camps in Bangladesh to escape raids by Myanmar forces.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/25/2005 00:00 ||
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Ok, I remember the lecture on ammunition, but 16,000 rounds still seems like an awful lot!
#2
but 16,000 rounds still seems like an awful lot!
Nah, that's a small cache for a real rebel group. These are the guys that have been fighting the Burmese regime for years, they moved base camps into Bangladesh to rest and reload.
It's the gangsters in the Bangladesh cities that are lucky to have a dozen rounds for a shutter gun found on their bodies.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/25/2005 8:28 Comments ||
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#3
For my one bit of active fighting in Vietnam, I was issued an M-2 carbine and 800 rounds of ammo in 8-round clips. Weighed a TON! I think I turned back in about 40 rounds...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
07/25/2005 16:31 Comments ||
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Naval Intelligence has sent a ââclassified and specific alertââ to Customs officials to be on the lookout for a North Korean ship that is carrying arms and ammunition and heading towards India. The alert also said that the ship is likely to drop its consignment somewhere along the western coast.
Moved to 7/25, as this is sure to be of interest to all of us. AoS.
Posted by: john ||
07/25/2005 00:00 ||
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Why didn't they stop it at sea?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
07/24/2005 21:55 Comments ||
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#2
sink it at sea
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2005 22:06 Comments ||
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#3
What happens when a NoKo boat carries a nuke on-board?
#6
possibly - you remember this actually happened, right?
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/24/2005 23:27 Comments ||
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#7
"...sent a ââclassified and specific alertââ to Customs officials..."
What country is the US customing? The sovereign Neptune's Oasis? I hope they don't stop the shipment before the 6 party talks bear fruit with the NORKS, or they might just take it the wrong way or worst...retaliate!!
#8
The ship can't be stopped or boarded in international waters. There's no legal justification. India's not at war with NK, nor is there an international authorization a la Iraq.
Once in Indian waters, it can be stopped for 'safety' reasons. Still can't do anything about the cargo.
Best thing would be to track the ship and catch it as it's unloading. Methinks India does not wish to do this and have to deal with the ramifications. Hhence the rather public 'classified and specific alert'.
The US has customs agents in India, but only for inspecting containers bound for the US. The alert came from Indian Naval Intelligence to Indian Customs.
#11
I do remember, Frank. We had to let it go because the buyers insisted (I don't remember who the buyers were, but then my memory has been a bit porous lately.) Would the same ploy work this time, do you think?
#12
Hmmm. Why else is North Korea in the news right now? Here's one scenario I just pulled out of thin air:
1. Someone 'leaks' to US intelligence that a rogue NorK ship is out there stuffed full of arms -n- ammo.
2. US goes on high alert, navy fleet starts monitoring/hassling all NorK shipping. (Since this is a WAG, I note that I have no idea how much shipping commerce heads to/from NKor)
3. NorKs storm out of six party talks, stating (plausibly) that the US is agressing towards NKor and they will not negotiate with unstable cowboys who are desperate to disarm them and leave them defenseless.
4. MSM dutifully reports the NorK statement minus the moonbeams and Kimmie gets a PR coup as the chattering class nods its head thoughtfully and agrees this mess is all W's fault, prolly to distract attention from the sentencing and trial of Karl Rove.
#16
We had to let it go because the buyers insisted
It was Yemen.
Someone 'leaks' to US intelligence that a rogue NorK ship is out there stuffed full of arms -n- ammo.
Sigh.
For the second time, this was not U.S. Naval Intelligence. This was Indian Naval Intelligence in an alert to Indian Customs officials. For the love of Alfred Thayer Mahan, will you all RTFA before commenting?
#18
Pappy, come on!! We all know that the real "Eyes In The Sky" in this matter is the US! The Indians don't cry uncle unless 'Sam' has a say about it! The alert may be by India, but the "Buck Stops Here"!!!
#19
.com, no argument here with your proposed campaign. In fact, it'd be a nice little 'courtesy'.
What chafes me is the meme that the Indians couldn't have possibly come up with this intel on their own. Bullshit. What an absolutely bigoted and asinine assessment.
They've already been through this once, and paid for it when the alert wasn't taken seriously. They might not want to sink the bastards, but they sure as hell want to stop the arms from making landfall.
#20
Ah, I misunderstood what you were so righteously pissed about. I re-read everything and still didn't cotton to exactly what ticked you off - so I posted again - sorry I missed your point. *whew!*
#22
smn, what is it with the Left and their myopic parochialism. I know this may come as a shock, but other countries do have intelligence and customs services.
If the report is genuine the Indians won't hesitate to intercept on the high seas. However, I'm wondering who in Western India has the bucks and connections to order arms from NorkLand.
BTW, India has its own satellites and also buys data from the Russians.
#23
Maybe the Maoists with their Greater Maoland Plan for Northern India/Nepal/Bangladesh are looking for more firepower. They have been doing bank robberies, kidnappings, and drug smuggling, so they would have the funds. And NoKors are desparate for hard currency, and have piles of old ComBlock weapons laying about. A few thousand AKs, RPGs, RPKs, and ammo would come in handy for the Maoists right about now.
I don't think any disinformation would work on Bush - he gives a rat's ass for false positives (or is it true negatives?). He will act without over-wrought analysis and hand-wringing. He will do a London Policeman on them and then see what is in the hold.
Posted by: Douglas MacArthur ||
07/25/2005 5:23 Comments ||
Top||
#25
while India has its own satellites, its image analysts probably don't monitor the North Korean ports regularly. This information is almost certainly from a friendly government - the USA, Japan, South Korea, Russia.
US Pacific Command has links with the Indian Navy.
It was on a tip off from the US that India seized a North Korean freighter laden with missile parts in 2003.
Posted by: john ||
07/25/2005 7:39 Comments ||
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#26
However, I'm wondering who in Western India has the bucks and connections to order arms from NorkLand.
Western India? You sure they don't mean Pakistan? Kashmir is landlocked, AFAICR, so that's out.
Maybe the NorKs are trying to fund yet another Muslim separatist group?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/25/2005 8:04 Comments ||
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#28
Pappy - I would assume we tracked that boat long before the Indians knew about it - they surely don't want it landing, but we, the SK's and teh Japanese have first dibs on teh concerns about shipping leaving NK. That's not bigotry, racism, or anything other than noting India prolly has few assets in the Korean vicinity, no?
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/25/2005 11:05 Comments ||
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#29
Interesting about the Yemeni bound boat. The raid was conducted by Spanish commando's on a tip from India. No wonder Saeh got to keep his Scuds.
#30
I agree that the US has the best intel assets and India likely got their info from outside sources.
It's the myopic view that India has no intelligence capability of its own that pissed me off.
As for who the intended users are, I'd sumrise that, given the coast it's supposedly headed for, it's likely Muslim. Still, I wouldn't rule out maoists or Tamils.
#32
Not knowing the first thing about Indian Intelligence matters.... (so?) One asset India has is semi-similar to the Zionist Entitys'. To wit a hell of a lot of worldly merchants all over the place, even in Japan, Korea Taiwan Minneapolis, etc.
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