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2 Iraq graves may hold remains of 7,000
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
Page 1: WoT Operations
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5 00:00 Zhang Fei [332] 
1 00:00 Sock Puppet 0’ Doom [308] 
1 00:00 trailing wife [339] 
3 00:00 phil_b [328] 
2 00:00 Shipman [374] 
27 00:00 Colonel Flagg [483] 
2 00:00 MacNails [332] 
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2 00:00 Pappy [338] 
3 00:00 Frank G [326] 
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Page 2: WoT Background
3 00:00 badanov [463]
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2 00:00 Bobby [314]
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14 00:00 OldSpook [462]
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8 00:00 thibaud (aka lex) [309]
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6 00:00 Cliches For A Dollar [318]
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Page 3: Non-WoT
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9 00:00 Anonymoose [360]
3 00:00 Fred [320]
2 00:00 Steve White [315]
4 00:00 trailing daughter of the trailing wife [314]
22 00:00 Atomic Conspiracy [328]
9 00:00 Zhang Fei [322]
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8 00:00 MBA [336]
1 00:00 ed [311]
1 00:00 josephmendiola [328]
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4 00:00 Sock Puppet 0’ Doom [350]
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11 00:00 Dar [323]
4 00:00 Tom [305]
Page 5: Local News
8 00:00 Chinese Uninetch9873 [318]
-Short Attention Span Theater-
BIG Apologies to Old Spook who is NOT a Troll
despite the fact that I clicked on the wrong button a moment ago. I need Fred's help to fix this - I don't have authorization to unban him myself.

UPDATE: And COL Flagg too. I'm backing away slowly from the keyboard now ....
Posted by: rkb || 04/16/2005 1:02:58 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [483 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ...not to worry.....Troll is just a cover story.
Posted by: Spaimble Hupuper3881 || 04/16/2005 13:18 Comments || Top||

#2  and you never saw us together, either
Posted by: Colonel Flagg TROLL || 04/16/2005 13:34 Comments || Top||

#3  So now who trolled Col. Flagg?

Wudn't me. I never saw him...
Posted by: Fred || 04/16/2005 13:57 Comments || Top||

#4  Since I blew away the restore routine I was using, that one (OS's) was less than perfect. Sorry for the dupe...
Posted by: Fred || 04/16/2005 13:58 Comments || Top||

#5  Thanks, Fred. Sorry for the screwup, guys.
Posted by: rkb || 04/16/2005 14:00 Comments || Top||

#6  heh heh - so I'm a Flagg troll too?
Posted by: Frank G || 04/16/2005 14:00 Comments || Top||

#7  and you never saw us together, either
Posted by: Colonel Flagg || 04/16/2005 13:34 Comments || Top||

#8  and you never saw us together, either
Posted by: Colonel Flagg || 04/16/2005 13:34 Comments || Top||

#9  Im not The Mossad and that's not Flagg.
Posted by: The Mossad || 04/16/2005 14:04 Comments || Top||

#10  Must be moose and squirrel...
Posted by: badanov || 04/16/2005 14:25 Comments || Top||

#11  Now I've forgotten who *I* am!
Posted by: Sheik Abu Bin Ali Al-Yahood || 04/16/2005 16:01 Comments || Top||

#12  heheh. 291 posts in em sinktrap today. :)
Posted by: muck4doo TROLL || 04/16/2005 16:34 Comments || Top||

#13  Got an error when trying to post a news link:
Warning: mysql_connect(): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: NO) in C:web
antburgwwwlPosterHolder.php on line 8
Unable to connect!

Trolls must have gotten into the server.
Posted by: ed || 04/16/2005 16:37 Comments || Top||

#14  Trolls will be marked even until the 7th generation of the 11 son.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/16/2005 18:22 Comments || Top||

#15  Which of course leads us naturally to SPAM ovens and who gets baked.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/16/2005 18:23 Comments || Top||

#16  Fixed the headline poster bug... Next!
Posted by: Fred || 04/16/2005 19:22 Comments || Top||

#17  Ship, you don't bake spam. Everybody knows you fry it and serve it on white bred with mayo ...
Posted by: anon || 04/16/2005 19:56 Comments || Top||

#18  ..serve it on white bred with mayo ...

I eat it on a plate with steamed rice....
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 04/16/2005 20:30 Comments || Top||

#19  I put a fail-safe in where if you're on the list of approved posters the troll button's not going to work on you. Unless you change your name. Or cheese me off...
Posted by: Fred || 04/16/2005 20:34 Comments || Top||

#20  Be forewarened FredMan has a nohair trigger and hates SPAM with mayo.

Couse we all like steamed rice.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/16/2005 20:43 Comments || Top||

#21  Grilled peanut butter & fried SPAM sandwiches are great.
Posted by: Dave D. || 04/16/2005 20:45 Comments || Top||

#22  Grilled peanut butter & fried SPAM sandwiches are great.

for what poultices? Ugh!
Posted by: Frank G || 04/16/2005 20:58 Comments || Top||

#23  No kidding, Frank, I'm serious: they're almost as good as grilled PB and bacon.
Posted by: Dave D. || 04/16/2005 21:31 Comments || Top||

#24  After reading this thread, I am awf'ly glad I keep semi-Kosher. *shudder*
Posted by: trailing wife || 04/16/2005 21:38 Comments || Top||

#25  OS, have you seen my husband? They did the same to him and he's now like Charley on the MTA.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis || 04/16/2005 21:45 Comments || Top||

#26  Mrs D.,
Do you hand him a sandwich as the train comes rumbling thru?

Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 04/16/2005 22:09 Comments || Top||

#27  and you never saw us together, either
Posted by: Colonel Flagg || 04/16/2005 13:34 Comments || Top||

Yemen: 300,000 Wahabbis in Training in Underground Schools
Underground religious schools that promote extremist forms of Islam are drawing more than 300,000 young students across Yemen, the country's prime minister said Saturday.
Prime Minister Abdul-Kader Bajammal warned that the religious education promoting the ideas of Wahhabism, a strict form of Islam, "will bring a disaster to Yemen and this generation." He promised to eliminate the underground schools, which he estimated numbered about 4,000 and drew about 330,000 students.
"We are not against the religious education ... but we are against extremism," he said in a speech to teachers and Education Ministry officials.
Bajammal said that the government will not remain silent over what he described as "crimes committed against our children and the next generations."
Like many Persian Gulf countries, Yemen - the ancestral home of Osama bin Laden - largely funded and did not interfere with religious schools before the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks in the United States
After the attacks, the country initiated an anti-terrorism state policy and began monitoring what was being taught, attaching conditions to financial assistance and shutting down the Religious Institutions Department in the Education Ministry.
Religious officials have condemned the government for its policy change.
It was in the southern Yemeni port of Aden that the USS Cole was bombed in 2000, killing 17 American sailors.
As hard as their government fights extremists, Yemen is strategic enough to become the next major regional conflict, exacerbated by the Saudis to the north.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 04/16/2005 10:31:20 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [356 views] Top|| File under:

Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
Caucasus Corpse Count
ROSTOV-ON-DON, Russia - Russian forces in a pre-dawn raid on Friday shot dead four suspected rebels in possession of two portable anti-aircraft missile systems near the main air base in war-torn Chechnya, a military spokesman said. The operation took place in a village outside the regional capital, Grozny, near the Khankala air base, said Maj. Gen. Ilya Shabalkin, chief spokesman for the federal forces in Russia's North Caucasus. The four dead suspected militants included a citizen of the Central Asian nation of Kazakhstan, he said. The bandits under cover of darkness were sneaking around and looking for a vantage point to fire the Strela anti-aircraft missile to shoot down aircraft," the federal forces' press service said in a statement.
Posted by: Steve White || 04/16/2005 00:00:00 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [338 views] Top|| File under:

#1  So where are they getting the Soviet designed missles from?
Posted by: Sock Puppet 0’ Doom || 04/16/2005 0:28 Comments || Top||

#2  Likely stolen from depots or
possibly bought on the black market.
Posted by: Pappy || 04/16/2005 0:56 Comments || Top||

Down Under
Imprisoned Schapelle turns to God
SCHAPELLE Corby has turned to God as she waits to find out if she will be executed in Indonesia.

The accused drug smuggler has been baptised as a Christian in a Bali jail and defies sweltering heat to pray at two church services every Sunday.
Ms Corby, who collapsed at court in a dramatic appearance this week, also reads the Bible in her cell.

In another development yesterday, a note by a top security official, who died mysteriously after alleging drug running at Sydney Airport, has been delivered to lawyers for Corby.

Her lawyers claim the note supports Corby's plea she is the innocent victim of criminal networks using airports for drug trafficking.

Its author, former Australian Protective Services officer Gary Lee-Rogers, was found dead in his Queanbeyan flat in October, 2002.

An autopsy was unable to find the cause of death but his family and whistleblowers believe he was murdered after uncovering corruption in the APS's operations at the airport.

Corby, 27, has been in Bali's Kerobokan Jail since October. She was arrested at the island's airport with 4.1kg of cannabis in her boogie-board bag.

Corby, who could face execution by a firing squad if convicted, has made the two hour-long church services a ritual.

Vasu Rasiah, a member of the Australian's legal team, said: "She has a strong faith now. It is a very important part of her life.

"Jail is jail, but going to church gives her a release. She is more calm."

Ms Corby supporter Ann Potter said she had watched the accused drug peddler finding solace in God.

The Sunbury woman bribed her way into the Indonesian prison to see Ms Corby on April 3, and attended a Sunday service with the Queenslander.

"She seems to be finding a lot of peace attending those church services," Ms Potter said.

"Her (Sunday) ritual was (to attend) two church services, one Protestant and one Catholic."

Ms Potter said Ms Corby attended the services, conducted in Indonesian, with about 50 other prisoners.

Ms Potter, a former City of Hume mayor, who turned her family holiday into a Corby crusade, said she witnessed one of the judge's text-messaging during a court session and saw another fall asleep.

It was also revealed that Corby has decided she wants more privacy. Her lawyers will ask the court this week to shield her from the media, Mr Rasiah said.

Mr Rasiah said the strain of the frantic attention was proving too much.

"She was scared to go to court," he said.
Posted by: God Save The World || 04/16/2005 7:16:57 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [332 views] Top|| File under:

#1  and this is page 1, why?
Posted by: Frank G || 04/16/2005 19:58 Comments || Top||

#2  I think it's at least page 2, if not page 1. This is probably going to provoke a severe crisis in the relationship between Australia and Indonesia. She's getting a much more severe sentence for being an unwilling or unknowing mule than the surviving plotters of the Bali attack did for their crimes.
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 04/16/2005 21:03 Comments || Top||

#3  no disrespect to the lady or her ordeal, but she hardly smuggled C4. She F*&ked up and got caught with 9lbs of pot....I agree the sentence is harsh, just trying to keep perspective
Posted by: Frank G || 04/16/2005 21:51 Comments || Top||

#4  Indonesia and Malaysia both execute Western "drug smugglers" (real or framed) on a regular basis. No one ever cares, except for the families involved. The Australian gov't won't do shit, and neither would the US if it were an American citizen. Good point about the Bali bombers though, there's nothing right, or just, about anything in this situation.
Posted by: Sheik Abu Bin Ali Al-Yahood || 04/16/2005 23:28 Comments || Top||

#5  PF: This is probably going to provoke a severe crisis in the relationship between Australia and Indonesia.

I agree. That Bali sentence and now this. Even if she was smuggling drugs into Indonesia, this is not going to be good for people (typically on the Aussie left) who say that Australia needs to become part of Asia.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 04/16/2005 23:58 Comments || Top||

Terror Networks & Islam
Turkish Army Spring Offensive
April 16, 2005: The Turkish military reports the biggest battle in years with PKK guerrillas in southeastern Turkey. The battle took place April 13-14 near the town of Pervari near both Iraq and Syria. The PKK lost 21 guerillas and three Turkish troops were killed. The Turkish military is "in pursuit" of the guerrilla force. The PKK unit may have infiltrated from Iraq during the past week. Apparently, the Turkish military had tracked the infiltrators and were able to interdict them with a mobile combat force. The army had also fought a series of skirmishes with a PKK unit during the first week of April. Apparently the firefights occurred near the Turkey-Iraq border. Nine PKK guerrillas died in the firefights. Turkey has been claiming since late 2004 that the PKK planned to launch new attacks into Turkey. Where is the PKK getting financial and military support? Syria and Iran are the most likely suspects. Both Iran and Syria have an interest in keeping Iraq stirred up and in preventing its fledgling democracy from spreading --to places like Syria and Iran. Provoking Turkey via the PKK is one way to keep the pressure on Iraq. -- Austin Bay
Posted by: ed || 04/16/2005 5:29:55 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [308 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I have a hard time feeling bad when Commies get killed. So I won't.
Posted by: Sock Puppet 0’ Doom || 04/16/2005 21:55 Comments || Top||

Jordan: Federalization and Annexation?
King Abdullah II is deeply preoccupied in restructuring governance in his realm according to a self-designed pattern of democracy. This revolutionary process is going forward quietly step by step. This month, he appointed a new government shorn of policy-making authority in the fields of foreign affairs, defense and home security, prerogatives that will pass to the royal court. Furthermore, he is acting to decentralize parliament in Amman.
But along with these radical reforms, the Jordanian king's peripheral sight is fixed on his western neighbor. He has not missed Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas's descent deeper day by day into the morass of disorder and revolt...
Of one thing Abdullah is certain: he cannot afford a Hamas takeover of Palestinian government in the West Bank and Gaza. The Palestinian Hamas terrorist group is not isolated or autonomous; it is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, a worldwide jihadist movement whjch is strongest in the Arab world. A Brotherhood-dominated government in Ramallah would point a knife at the Hashemite throne in Amman.
Abdullah is therefore turning over the possibility of Jordan moving in to fill the power vacuum that would be formed on the West Bank by Abu Mazen's downfall...
Posted by: Anonymoose || 04/16/2005 5:49:16 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [339 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Fascinating. A good outcome for Israel, if it works. The Jordanian monarchs have been more successful at maintaining civilized society than the Palestinians have yet shown themselves even interested in. And certainly Israel would rather not have to risk her citizenry -- both civilian and military -- continuing to attempt to enforce order.
Posted by: trailing wife || 04/16/2005 22:06 Comments || Top||

Australia Sending More Troops To Iraq
The Bushmaster

PRIME Minister John Howard will farewell 450 Australian troops bound for Iraq tomorrow, an additional deployment which broke an election promise.

Mr Howard announced in February that Australia would virtually double its troop numbers to Iraq, breaking a pledge not to dramatically increase the number of defence personnel sent to the war-torn country.

Australia's second contingent of troops will take over from 1400 Dutch soldiers who provided security for Japanese military engineers in the southern province of Al Muthanna.

Defence Minister Robert Hill and Defence Force chief Peter Cosgrove will also be in Darwin for the official farewell, sending the troops off with a barbecue for them and their families.

The first wave of soldiers will leave aboard the heavy landing craft HMAS Tobruk for the 19-day journey to the Middle East. The Tobruk will be loaded with 20 Australian light armoured vehicles (ASLAVS), stores, equipment and almost 200 crew.

The remaining Darwin-based 1st Brigade soldiers and ASLAVS are due to follow by sea and commercial air in late April, early May.

In addition, 10 of Australia's new Bushmaster troop carriers will be shipped on the Tobruk, and will undergo their first operational testing in Iraq.

Bushmaster is a large four-wheeled vehicle able to carry 10 soldiers and their equipment at highway speeds over substantial distances. Its light armour provides protection against small arms fire and mine blast.

Army officer Captain Keith Wilkinson said the Tobruk would unload the equipment and personnel into a safe port in the Middle East.

The Tobruk has previously provided sea transport and logistic support to the army during operations in East Timor, Bougainville and Somalia.

It is the vessel's first deployment to the Middle East in support of Operation Catalyst, the Australian Defence Force's contribution to the rehabilitation and stabilisation of Iraq.

One Australian has lost his life while serving in Iraq.

Flight Lieutenant Paul Pardoel, a 35-year-old former RAAF officer, was killed along with nine British servicemen on January 30 while serving with the Royal Air Force.

Flt Lt Paul Pardoel, from Victoria, died when a British C-130 Hercules transport plane crashed north of Baghdad.

After the prime minister's February announcement on the extra troops, Opposition Leader Kim Beazley said Mr Howard had misled voters and demanded he explain what had changed to justify the decision to send the extra troops to the war-torn nation.
Posted by: God Save The World || 04/16/2005 4:41:28 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [328 views] Top|| File under:

#1  His answer should be "To give them invaluable skills that can only be learned in a minimally hostile environment. Skills that can now be purchased cheaply for dollars, but could later possibly only be purchased at the expense of the lives of our sons and daughters." Then he could offer the testimony of "many" who had fought in war before, to attest that what he had just said was true. Finally, he should turn the question around, and ask: "What is more important, a few dollars now, or the lives of our soldiers later?"
Posted by: Anonymoose || 04/16/2005 17:23 Comments || Top||

#2  So, 450 Aussies = 1400 Dutchmen ;-)
Posted by: trailing wife || 04/16/2005 22:03 Comments || Top||

#3  which broke an election promise BullS***, he said there were no plans to send additional troops. The request came after the election.
Posted by: phil_b || 04/16/2005 23:02 Comments || Top||

iraqi Army surrounds hostage town
IRAQI soldiers have surrounded a town south of Baghdad where gunmen, believed to be Sunni militants, are holding scores of Shiite residents hostage and have threatened to kill them unless all Shiites leave. The mass seizure of residents coincided with a string of insurgent attacks across the country in which at least 17 Iraqis were killed, seven of them in one explosion in central Iraq.

In an incident likely to heighten sectarian tension between the majority Shiites, who swept January's elections, and the embittered disempowered Sunnis, gunmen blew up an empty Shiite mosque in Al-Madain after taking the hostages. An interior ministry official said the gunmen were holding some 80 hostages and threatening to kill them unless all Shiites left the town, some 30km south of Baghdad. Iraqi army special forces had surrounded the town and there was a brief exchange of gunfire, the official added.

The stand-off began when the gunmen, riding in pick-up trucks, seized hostages and called over loudspeakers on Shiites to leave, a defence ministry official said. Scores fled the town, some heading for the city of Kut further south. "They have detained more than 80 people, including women and children, and they are threatening to kill them unless Shiites leave," Captain Haitham Mohammed, of the Iraqi army, said.

Many Iraqi soldiers and police put on civilian clothing to flee the mixed Sunni-Shiite town, located on the Tigris river on the site of the ancient city of Ctesiphon. The area around Al-Madain is home to several Sunni Arab tribes who follow the radical Wahabi brand of Islam that dominates Saudi Arabia. Recent reports suggested that Shiites had set up vigilante groups for protection. An interior ministry official suggested events in Madain could be a response to the abduction of Sunnis from the powerful Dulaimi tribe, who have a presence in the area.

In other violence, at least 17 people were killed, including two US soldiers and a Turkish truck driver, in separate incidents, US and Iraqi officials said. In the most lethal attack, seven died, including a number of policemen, and five were wounded when a bomb went off in at crowded restaurant in Baquba, north of the capital, police said.

In Baghdad, one civilian was killed and three wounded when a suicide bomber drove his car into a military-guarded convoy. The al-Qaeda-linked group of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi said in statements carried on the internet that it carried out both attacks. An Iraqi policeman was also shot dead in southern Baghdad while driving his car, the interior ministry said.

In continuing attacks on the estimated 140,000 US troops in Iraq, one American soldier, travelling in a convoy, was killed by an explosion near Taji, north of Baghdad, the US military said, one day after another had died of his wounds in an attack near Tikrit, further north.

A Turkish truck driver was killed when a roadside bomb exploded near the northern oil refining town of Baiji, setting his vehicle ablaze. An Iraqi soldier died and another was wounded in an explosion near Samarra, north of Baghdad, and four civilians were wounded in a car bomb attack against an Iraqi army convoy in the same area.

The Iraqi army meanwhile said it had arrested 20 people in Khalis, north of Baghdad, on suspicion of involvement in insurgent attacks. It also said its soldiers had killed two leaders of Ansar al-Sunna, an al-Qaeda-linked network.

The leader of the network was identified as Abu Bakr Mohammed Nayef al-Janabi, a former intelligence officer under Saddam Hussein.
This article starring:
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
Captain Haitham Mohammed
Ansar al-Sunna
Posted by: God Save The World || 04/16/2005 4:30:12 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [374 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Omar at Iraq the Model has comments on this
Posted by: Sherry || 04/16/2005 17:16 Comments || Top||

#2  Im expect MFP to chime in to.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/16/2005 18:35 Comments || Top||

Bombs rock Iraq as top Sunni cleric calls for amnesty
Right. The two parts of that headline just seem to go together, don't they?
Bomb attacks across Iraq killed at least four people as inmates rioted in a U.S.-run prison and an official warned that a new government was at least a week away from formation. After a surge in violence in the capital that followed a relative post-election lull, influential Sunni cleric Sheikh Abdel-Ghafour al-Samarrai urged President Jalal Talabani to honor his offer of amnesty to insurgents.

Baghdad woke up to bombs for the second day when a car bomb intended for a U.S. military convoy passing through the capital's upscale Mansour neighborhood killed at least one person and wounded five, including an American soldier, police and the U.S. military said. Al-Qaeda's wing in Iraq said one of its suicide bombers drove his vehicle into a convoy of American "cross worshippers" while traveling in Mansour and inflicted casualties. Just 10 minutes later, a roadside bomb went off in eastern Baghdad, targeting an Iraqi Army convoy, killing one civilian and wounding three, an interior ministry source said. A roadside bomb near the central city of Samarra killed two Iraqi soldiers, an army source said. The attacks came the day after twin suicide car bombs hit a highway police patrol in Baghdad, killing 11 people and wounding dozens.

In southern Iraq, a prisoner at the U.S.-run Camp Bucca detention center was murdered, triggering a fight between inmates that left 12 wounded on Thursday night, the U.S. military said. "The fight was confined between the detainees in one compound and was not directed at U.S. forces," the American military said in a statement. The incident comes just two weeks after 12 prisoners and four American guards were wounded in a riot in which detainees burned tents and hurled rocks at Camp Bucca, the country's largest U.S.-run detention facility with more than 6,000 inmates. The International Committee of the Red Cross has called for an investigation into the incident at Camp Bucca, which was the scene of another riot at the end of January that left four dead.
Posted by: Fred || 04/16/2005 11:17:19 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [332 views] Top|| File under:

#1  thanks ICRC - why don't we have some of your PR people stay in the prison as embeds? Kinda like Iraqi Brubaker?
Posted by: Frank G || 04/16/2005 11:23 Comments || Top||

#2  hehe Iraqi Brubaker!

In other news ..

Sunni's kidnap Shia's in Madain, about 30km (20 miles) south-east of Baghdad , and demand Shia's leave town .

Religion of Pieces strikes again !
Posted by: MacNails || 04/16/2005 11:53 Comments || Top||

2 Iraq graves may hold remains of 7,000
Two mass graves that appear to contain the remains of as many as 7,000 people killed by Saddam Hussein's government have been discovered in southern Iraq, according to an Iraqi government minister. The new Iraqi government may use some of the remains to build its case against war crimes suspects, including Hussein, Human Rights Minister Bakhtiar Amin said yesterday. Iraqi officials said they have been unable to excavate the burial grounds found earlier this year because of security concerns and because Iraq lacks enough forensic workers to perform the grisly task. Amin said that several of his investigators recently visited the sites and calculated the number of bodies by surveying the contours of the graves and interviewing witnesses of the burials.

The larger of the grave sites is in a deserted area near the southern port city of Basra, where Hussein's Sunni-led Baathist government waged a brutal campaign against a Shiite uprising after the 1991 Persian Gulf War. Amin said 5,000 bodies of people involved in the uprising might be buried there. Amin said the rest of the bodies were found in Samawa, a less-inhabited area in south-central Iraq. "We have found about 2,000 remains in the Samawa area of the family of Massoud Barzani," Amin said, referring to the current chief of the Kurdish Democratic Party, one of the two most powerful Kurdish organizations in Iraq and a longtime leader of a guerrilla movement against Hussein. Hussein's army detained 8,000 of Barzani's clansmen in their homeland in northern Iraq in 1983, and they were never heard from again. If the ministry's estimates are correct, the two mass graves would be among the largest of 290 secret burial sites reported found in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion. Iraqi human rights investigators estimate that 600,000 to 1 million people disappeared during Hussein's rule.
Posted by: Fred || 04/16/2005 11:11:28 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [788 views] Top|| File under:

Africa: North
Zoellick Visits Darfur Camp to Stress U.S. Commitment
Standing Friday in a vast camp sheltering as many as 100,000 refugees from violence in Sudan's Darfur region, Deputy Secretary of State Robert B. Zoellick asked Salwa Gaffar, a woman making pasta, where she came from.

"Number 21," Gaffar said, pointing toward one of the neat rows of mud-brick homes in the camp. Then she giggled shyly, realizing the visitor wanted to know which village she had fled in Darfur, where African rebels have been fighting government troops and Arab militias for two years.

Robert B. Zoellick also met with an ex-rebel leader in southern Sudan.

Zoellick arrived here after zigzagging around Africa's largest country, at one point delayed by a fierce sandstorm. He flew to Rumbek in the south to meet with former rebel leader John Garang. Then he headed west to inspect the Darfur camp visited in June by then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell.

The tour followed a day of meetings with officials in Khartoum, the capital. Zoellick pressed them to quickly implement a peace accord with the south and to take concrete steps to end the attacks in Darfur, which is a separate conflict. He said he traveled to both conflicted areas to emphasize Washington's commitment to resolving the disputes.

"The gap in understanding between Washington and Khartoum and Rumbek and Darfur is enormous," Zoellick told reporters traveling with him. "This is going to be a very hard problem to address." But he said he hoped he had laid out a road map this week that might begin the process of reconciliation. And he said continued U.S. financial support for the north-south accord would hinge on demonstrable progress in Darfur.

Ten months after Powell's visit, however, the sense of permanent crisis in Darfur was striking. Last summer, Abu Shouk had 40,000 people living in fragile shelters of wood and plastic. Now, more than double that number inhabit acres of mud-brick homes. The nearby headquarters of the African Union peacekeeping mission has also expanded from a single ramshackle house to an expanse of air-conditioned trailers and huge tents.

Nearly 1.9 million people live in more than 100 camps in Sudan, and tens of thousands have died in the Darfur conflict, which broke out in early 2003 when African rebel groups attacked police and military posts. The United Nations accuses the Arab-led government of supporting militias and bombing villages to crush the rebellion.

Aid groups have complained that they face intimidation from both government and rebel forces, as well as a shortage of funds. The U.N. World Food Program announced this month that it will be forced to cut rations for more than a million people beginning in May.

When Zoellick asked Gaffar whether it was safe in Darfur, she shook her head. When he asked whether it was safe in the camp, where an aid group is training 90 women, including Gaffar, to make and sell pasta, she said it was still dangerous at night.

"All Darfur is now a camp, because there is insecurity all over Darfur," said Mohamed Mustafa El-Mekkai, a tribal leader who met with Zoellick on Thursday.

U.S. officials said they sense the government in Khartoum is "chastened," as one put it, by international condemnation of the atrocities in Darfur, including a U.N. Security Council resolution authorizing possible war crimes prosecution. They said they hope the creation of a national unity government with southern rebels could lead to the granting of greater autonomy to ethnic groups throughout Sudan.

The north-south conflict, which lasted 21 years, pitted the Islamic government against the Sudan People's Liberation Army in the mostly animist and Christian south; 2 million people died, primarily from famine and disease, and 4 million were left homeless. Under the January accord, the South will be not be subject to Islamic law, known as sharia, and will have six years of self-rule, followed by a vote on whether to remain part of Sudan.

When Zoellick landed on the red dirt strip outside Rumbek, he was greeted by a band, an honor guard and several hundred people.

With the signing of the peace accord, about 600,000 people have returned to southern Sudan, and Rumbek has the feel of a boom town. Potholed tracks have been graded, and thatch-roof huts are being built. This week the market was stocked with colorful fabrics. A one-room courthouse, a jail and a small bank are located on the dirt field called Freedom Square.

But the area is still desperately poor. There is no running water, and the nearest paved road is hundreds of miles away.

Zoellick, who attended a conference in Oslo earlier this week that raised $4.5 billion to implement the peace agreement, said Garang asked him for an immediate infusion of $30 million to help build the new government.

Posted by: Robin Burk || 04/16/2005 9:42:22 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [328 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The Sudan starting to get that Haiti/Somalia it's always gonna be hopeless vibe.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/16/2005 10:58 Comments || Top||

Afghanistan/South Asia
Nepal schools obey Maoist shutdown order after rebels bomb schools
KATHMANDU - Nepal's private schools outside the capital, Kathmandu, obeyed on Friday a Maoist rebel order to shut after guerrilla bombs,planted as a warning, exploded in three empty schools, officials said. Two of the blasts occurred Thursday while the other took place last week, Nepal's private schools' association said. All of the bombs exploded in rebel-dominated west Nepal, damaging the buildings but causing no injuries.

Schools outside Kathmandu, where the Maoists hold sway, heeded the rebel closure order that marked the latest challenge to the authority of King Gyanendra who seized power February 1. But educational institutions in the tightly guarded capital, Kathmandu, functioned normally after re-opening for the new academic year in the country of 27 million people.

The Private and Boarding School Organization-Nepal said the Maoist student wing had been bombarding schools with threatening e-mails and telephone callstelling them to close unless they met a series of demands. "No students or teachers were injured in the bombings but the school buildings were damaged," said Bhim Pant, a senior member of Nepal's private schools' association. "Maoist student leaders have been constantly threatening the schools by telephone and e-mails to close down all private boarding schools or face dire consequences."

The Maoists want the institutions to cut fees, scrap singing the national anthem and remove photographs of Gyanendra as part of their drive to install their own "people's education" system. But the schools have refused to obey the Maoists.
Posted by: Steve White || 04/16/2005 00:00:00 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [326 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Are they the ones in the habit of kidnapping entire schools, using the females for what they're good for, turning all the males into soldiers?
Posted by: trailing wife || 04/16/2005 10:40 Comments || Top||

#2  Somehow I never realized that Nepal has that many people. The Netherlands is only 16 million, Greece 10 million, Canada 32 million. Afghanistan 28 million .... hmmmmm
Posted by: too true || 04/16/2005 12:41 Comments || Top||

#3  TT: they're including the Chinese agents fomenting rebellion
Posted by: Frank G || 04/16/2005 13:38 Comments || Top||

US consulate in Karachi reopens after three-day closure
KARACHI - The US consulate in the volatile Pakistani city of Karachi reopened on Friday after being closed for three days because of a security threat, an official said. The building, targeted by a deadly suicide bomb blast in 2002 that killed 12 people, had been closed since Tuesday after police received a telephone call warning that militants planned to attack the building. "The consulate is open today with all the staff at work,"  Greggory Crouch, press attache at the US embassy in Islamabad, told AFP. However security had been stepped up around the building, he added.
Why would we "step up" security? Isn't it supposed to be at the max already?
Posted by: Steve White || 04/16/2005 00:00:00 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [321 views] Top|| File under:

Kashmir Korpse Kount
SRINAGAR, India - Six terrorists militants, including three wanted commanders, a soldier and a Muslim civilian were killed in Kashmir during raids by Indian troops on Friday, a day before the arrival in India of Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, the army said. Soldiers killed four terrorists militants in a raid on a terrorist rebel hideout in the central Kashmir district of Budgam in the early hours of Friday, an army spokesman said, adding that a civilian had died during the exchange of fire. "Three of the banged slain terrorists militants were wanted commanders from the hardline al Badr group, including group's chief commander General Omar," the spokesman said. Four houses and three cowsheds were also destroyed during the fighting, residents said.
"Ma! They got Bessie!"
Another terrorist rebel was shot dead in a separate raid by Indian troops in the southern town of Kulgam, the spokesman said. "Both clashes erupted when troops raided the hideouts on tip-offs," the spokesman said. Police said a soldier and a terrorist militant were killed in another clash at a terrorist rebel hideout in southern Rajouri district on Friday evening. In other violence Friday, suspected terrorists rebels shot dead an alleged army informer in northern Baramulla district, police said. The bloodletting comes on the eve of Musharraf's first visit to India since a collapsed summit in July 2001. He will hold talks with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Kashmir and watch the last match of the one-day cricket series between India and Pakistan.
Posted by: Steve White || 04/16/2005 00:00:00 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [1125 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Amazing folk these 'rebels'.
Someone born in another country (Pakistan) can leave Pakistani Punjab and enter India. He then becomes a 'rebel' against the Indian state (to which he owes no allegiance being a foreigner).
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 8:51 Comments || Top||

#2  This is how the Pakistan newspaper Dawn reports the AFP story

SRINAGAR, April 15: Nine people, including three wanted commanders, were killed in various parts of occupied Kashmir during raids by Indian troops on Friday, the army said.

Soldiers killed four freedom fighters in a raid on their hideout in Budgam early on Friday, an army spokesman said, adding that a civilian had also died during the exchange of fire.

"Three of the slain militants were wanted commanders from the hard line al Badr group, including group's chief commander General Omar," he said. Four houses and three cowsheds were destroyed during the fighting, residents said.

Another freedom fighter was shot dead in a separate raid by Indian troops in the Kulgam area, the spokesman said. "Both clashes erupted when troops raided the hideouts on tip-offs," he said. Police said a soldier and a militant were killed in another clash at a militant hideout in Rajouri area. Suspected Mujahideen shot dead an alleged army informer in Baramulla. -AFP
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 11:03 Comments || Top||

#3  well, they are fighting against freedom..
Posted by: Frank G || 04/16/2005 11:12 Comments || Top||

#4  In the beginning, the struggle of Kashmiris to attain their right of self determination was indigenous. After the end of Afghan war, its ranks were infiltrated by foreign Mujahideen as well as Pakistani elements. Both of them shared hateful Wahabbi ideology. From then on Kashmiris struggle took a negative, destructive turn, resulting in the killings and rape of Kashmiri women by the so called freedom fighters.

Posted by: muslim for peace || 04/16/2005 11:26 Comments || Top||

#5  Terribly sad .

Kashmir is one of the most beautiful places in the world . I seriously doubt I will ever get a chance to visit again in my lifetime .
Closest I have gone in recent years is the Indian state of Himachal Pradesh .

I still wonder and hope that any of my old friends are safe and well , but I seriously doubt it .

Religion of Peace , my arse .
Posted by: MacNails || 04/16/2005 11:41 Comments || Top||

#6  Dear MacNails ,
I share your feeling of sadness and dismay at the situation of Kashmir.However, I can assure you that things are totally different on the Pakistani side of Kashmir.Presently,I do not live there,but If you decide to visit that part of Kashmir,I would be delighted to facilitate.
Best regards.
Posted by: muslim for peace || 04/16/2005 12:11 Comments || Top||

#7  Kashmiris do have 'self determination'

You are confusing self determination with independence.
Kashmiris have no 'right' to independence just as Texans do not (the US supreme court has ruled that secession is unconstitutional (Texas v. White)

Kashmiris have more rights than most folk throughout the world.

For example, there is representation without taxation. They can send representatives to the Indian parliament but taxes levied by said parliment do not apply unless the Kashmiri legislature approves them.

Non-kashmiri resident Indian citizens are barred from owning land in Kashmir. This provision of the Indian consitution protects the demographic character of the state and prevents the local poplace from being swamped by outsiders.

How many folk in, say, California, would love to restrict outsiders in such a manner.
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 12:20 Comments || Top||

#8  Of course the Pakistani side is peaceful. You don't defecate in the same place you sleep. The state sponsored jihadi terrorist base camps are there.

There has never been an election in the Pakistani part of Kashmir. Pakistanis love to talk about self determination but they cannot even choose their own president in democratic elections
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 12:23 Comments || Top||

#9  muslim for peace: educate yourself a little about Kashmir


Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 12:36 Comments || Top||

#10  Instrument of Accession

Whereas the Indian Independence Act, 1947, provides that as from the fifteenth day of August, 1947, there shall be set up an independent Dominion known as INDIA, and that the Government of India Act, 1935, shall, with such omission, additions, adaptations and modifications as the Governor-General may by order specify, be applicable to the Dominion of India,

And whereas the Government of India Act, 1935, as so adapted, by the Governor General provides that an Indian State may accede to the Dominion of India by an Instrument of Accession executed by the Ruler thereof :

Now, therefore, I Shriman Inder Mahander Rajrajeshwar Maharajadhiraj Shri Hari Singhji Jammu and Kashmir Naresh Tatha Tibbet adi Deshadhipathi, Ruler of Jammu and Kashmir State, in the exercise of my Sovereignty in and over my said State do hereby execute this my Instrument of Accession; and

1. I hereby declare that I accede to the Dominion of India with the intent that the Governor-General of India, the Dominion Legislature, the Federal Court and any other Dominion authority established for the purposes of the Dominion shall, by virtue of this my Instrument of Accession but subject always to the terms thereof, and for the purposes only of the Dominion, exercise in relation to the State of Jammu and Kashmir (hereinafter refrred to as "this State") such functions as may be vested in them by or under the Government of India Act, 1935, as in force in the Dominion of India, on the 15th Day of August 1947, (which Act as so in force is hereafter refrred to as "the Act").

2. I hereby assume the obligation of ensuring that due effect is given to provisions of the Act within this State so far as they are applicable therein by virtue of this my Instrument of Accession.

3. I accept the matters specified in the scheduled hereto as the matters with respect to which the Dominion Legislature may make laws for this State.

4. I hereby declare that I accede to the Dominion of India on the assurance that if an agreement is made between the Governor-General and the Ruler of this State whereby any functions in relation to the administration in this State of any law of the Dominion Legislature shall be exercised by the Ruler of this State, then any such agreement shall be deemed to form part of this Instrument and shall be construed and have effect accordingly.

5. The terms of this my Instrument of Accession shall not be varied by any amendment of the Act or the Indian Independence Act, 1947, unless such amendment is accepted by me by Instrument supplementary to this Instrument.

6. Nothing in this Instrument shall empower the Dominion Legislature to make any law for this State authorising the compulsory acquisition of land for any purpose, but I hereby undertake that should the Dominion for the purpose of a Dominion law which applies in this State deem it necessary to acquire any land, I will at their request acquire the land at their expense, or, if the land belongs to me transfer it to them on such terms as may be agreed or, in default of agreement, determined by an arbitrator to be appointed by the Chief justice of India.

7. Nothing in this Instrument shall be deemed to commit in any way to acceptance of any future constitution of India or to fetter my discretion to enter into arrangement with the Government of India under any such future constitution.

8. Nothing in this Instrument affects the continuance of my Sovereignty in and over this State, or, save as provided by or under this Instrument, the exercise of any powers, authority and rights now enjoyed by me as Ruler of this State or the validity of any law at present in force in this State.

9. I hereby declare that I execute this Instrument on behalf of this State and that any reference in this Instrument to me or to the Ruler of the State is to be construed as including a reference to my heirs and successors.

Given under my hand this 26th day of October, nineteen hundred and forty-seven.

Hari Singh,
Maharajadhiraj of Jammu and Kashmir State.

Acceptance of Accession by the Governor-General of India

I do hereby accept this Instrument of Accession.

Dated this twenty-seventh day of October, nineteen hundred and forty-seven.

Mountbatten of Burma,
Governor-General of India.
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 12:38 Comments || Top||

#11  Yes, religion of peace...

"More then 13,600 civilians lost their lives in the last fourteen years."

"Of these, 10,000 were killed by terrorists. The rest lost their lives when they got caught in the crossfire between the militants and the security forces," he said.

He lambasted the Pakistani president for not mentioning the figure of the security personnel killed in terrorist violence.

"We have lost 3,600 personnel of the security agencies."

"We have killed more then 16,700 terrorists in various operations, more then seventy per cent of them foreigners," he added.

He gave a detailed list of the arms and ammunition seized during anti-terrorist operations.

"We have captured 25,000 Kalashnikovs, 325 sniper rifles, over 1,000 machine guns, 1,800 rocket propelled grenades, 4,000 rocket launchers, 10,000 mines and 4000 wireless sets."

In addition to this, we have seized over 50,000 hand grenades, thirty tonnes of explosives and 7.5 tonnes of RDX," the former governor said."

Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 12:56 Comments || Top||

#12  The illegality and fake character of the so called Instrument of Accession has been established by Professor Alistair Lamb , renowned Historian , in his famous book on the subject of Kashmir.
I am not a Kashmiri and also do not favor the stance of either India or Pakistan .Both of them have their own stakes in Kashmir . It is the people of Kashmir who are suffering since 1947.
If East Timor, a much smaller entity can become an independent state , why not Kashmir , with so much tourism income?
It is high time that a referendum should be held to determine the free choice of Kashmiris.
Posted by: muslim for peace || 04/16/2005 13:10 Comments || Top||

#13  muslim for peace

"Presently,I do not live there,but If you decide to visit that part of Kashmir,I would be delighted to facilitate."

How would you facilitate?
Posted by: Ulaique || 04/16/2005 13:25 Comments || Top||

#14  tickets on the "peace bus"?
Posted by: Frank G || 04/16/2005 13:28 Comments || Top||

#15  Since I belong to Pakistan, I can facilitate the visit through my friends there.
Posted by: muslim for peace || 04/16/2005 13:29 Comments || Top||

#16  no thanks
Posted by: Daniel Pearl || 04/16/2005 13:31 Comments || Top||

#17  I would facilitate through my friends there.
Posted by: muslim for peace || 04/16/2005 13:32 Comments || Top||

#18  No westerner is safe either side of the line of control , even if they have friends there (hence I havent been back) . Such is the blind hatred of the agressive Muslim terrorists supported by Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence Agency.

And just for the record , my friends are Hindu's , no doubt persecuted into oblivion in that region .

The basic Kashmiri wants peace above all else , but the 'ye olde Islamic fruitcakes' dont .

I revert back to my original statement 'Religion of Peace , my arse '

Oooh and a small note ,the Pakistani security services *cough,splutter* Lieutenant-General Mahmoud Ahmad was dismissed from his post after it became clear that he had been involved in transferring $100,000 to the account of Mohammed Ati, one of the organizers of the September 11th terrorist attacks in the USA.

Safe place to visit ? Nahh .

I think I'll just stick to hoping my friends havent been murdered by a Pakistani based terrorist retard with less i.q. than a turd.
Posted by: MacNails || 04/16/2005 13:57 Comments || Top||

#19  Islam has been hijacked by Wahabbi thugs ,who rule in Saudi Arabia and thru their supporters in various Muslim states,notably Pakistan.IF ISI Chief was dismissed ,why he is not in Guantanamo Bay? Things are not that simple! For the record I do not like ISI.
Posted by: muslim for peace || 04/16/2005 14:14 Comments || Top||

#20  Fake?

A document signed by Lord Mountbatten, the former Viceroy of India, Supreme Allied Commander Southeast Asia Command) WWII and cousin to the present British Queen?

The IRA murdered him in 1979.
Before his death, did he say that the document was faked?

Please read this

"Was the Instrument of Accession that Hari Singh signed "fraudulent" as averred by Pakistan's foreign ministry? Now, as Dr A S Anand, India's ex-chief justice, has argued in his book The Constitution of Jammu and Kashmir (Universal Law Publishing Co Ltd, 1998), "fraud" is to cause a person to do something to his detriment or to another's advantage by deceit. But there was absolutely no evidence of any deceit practised by India. Further, says Dr Anand, if by fraud it is meant that the Government of India should not have accepted the accession unless it had been endorsed by the people of J&K, well, the Government of India had no authority to question the maharaja as he alone had the right and power to take a decision for his State.

It is a small mercy that, unlike the so-called historian Harry Alastair Lamb and some recent Pakistani journalists -- to whom India's oh-so-secular English newspapers generously extend the premium space of their op-ed pages -- Pakistan's ministry of foreign affairs hasn't doubted the very existence of this Instrument of Accession.

To pre-empt that eventuality in future, let it be mentioned here that the BJP Today magazine of August 1-15, 2001, reproduced in its entirety a copy of the Instrument of Accession with blanks duly filled in and signed in Maharaja Hari Singh's own handwriting dated October 26, 1947. What's more, India's external affairs ministry has reportedly distributed its copy to every news organisation. "
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 15:50 Comments || Top||

#21  Why is Ahmad not in gitmo?
The same reason that AQ Khan (nuclear walmart) isn't.
Musharraf is protecting him.

Osama Bin Laden and Pervez go way back.
They are mass murdering buddies.

"In May,1988, the Shias, who are in a majority in Gilgit, rose in revolt against the Sunni-dominated administration. Zia put an SSG group commanded by Gen. Musharraf in charge of suppressing the revolt. Gen. Musharraf transported a large number of Wahabi Pakhtoon tribesmen from the NWFP and Afghanistan, commanded by bin Laden, to Gilgit to teach the Shias a lesson. These tribesmen under bin Laden massacred hundreds of Shias."

" Faced with a revolt by the Shias of the Northern Areas (Gilgit and Baltistan) of Jammu & Kashmir (J&K), under occupation by the Pakistan Army, for a separate Shia State called the Karakoram State, the Pakistan Army transported Osama bin Laden's tribal hordes into Gilgit and let them loose on the Shias. They went around massacring hundreds of Shias--innocent men, women and children."
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 16:00 Comments || Top||

#22  I dislike both ISI and Musharraf.
The pertinent question is who is protecting Musharraf ?
Posted by: muslim for peace || 04/16/2005 16:44 Comments || Top||

#23  USA of course.
He is the "loyal ally in the war on terror", soon to be given 70 nuclear capable F-16 (block 52) fighters as a reward.

Given that Pakistan transferred one of its previous F-16s to the Chinese for reverse engineering, the boys in Shanghai must be waiting expectantly.
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 17:01 Comments || Top||

#24  I don't understand why you, as a pakistani, dislike Musharraf.

He is the perfect pakistani leader, in the very image of MA Jinnah.
The Pakistan of today is the state bequeated by MA Jinnah.

The following is an extract from a 1949 book by Margaret Bourke-White.

You may find it instructive

The Messiah and The Promised Land
Margaret Bourke-White was a correspondent and photographer for LIFE magazine during the WW II years. In September 1947, White went to Pakistan. She met Jinnah and wrote about what she found and heard in her book Halfway to Freedom: A Report on the New India,Simon and Schuster, New York, 1949. The following are the excerpts:

Pakistan was one month old. Karachi was its mushrooming capital. On the sandy fringes of the city an enormous tent colony had grown up to house the influx of minor government officials. There was only one major government official, Mahomed Ali Jinnah, and there was no need for Jinnah to take to a tent. The huge marble and sandstone Government House, vacated by British officialdom, was waiting. The Quaid-i-Azam moved in, with his sister, Fatima, as hostess. Mr. Jinnah had put on what his critics called his "triple crown": he had made himself Governor-General; he was retaining the presidency of the Muslim League -- now Pakistan's only political party; and he was president of the country's lawmaking body, the Constituent Assembly.

"We never expected to get it so soon," Miss Fatima said when I called. "We never expected to get it in our lifetimes."

If Fatima's reaction was a glow of family pride, her brother's was a fever of ecstasy. Jinnah's deep-sunk eyes were pinpoints of excitement. His whole manner indicated that an almost overwhelming exaltation was racing through his veins. I had murmured some words of congratulation on his achievement in creating the world's largest Islamic nation.

"Oh, it's not just the largest Islamic nation. Pakistan is the fifth-largest nation in the world!"

The note of personal triumph was so unmistakable that I wondered how much thought he gave to the human cost: more Muslim lives had been sacrificed to create the new Muslim homeland than America, for example, had lost during the entire second World War. I hoped he had a constructive plan for the seventy million citizens of Pakistan. What kind of constitution did he intend to draw up?

"Of course it will be a democratic constitution; Islam is a democratic religion."

I ventured to suggest that the term "democracy" was often loosely used these days. Could he define what he had in mind?

"Democracy is not just a new thing we are learning," said Jinnah. "It is in our blood. We have always had our system of zakat -- our obligation to the poor."

This confusion of democracy with charity troubled me. I begged him to be more specific.

"Our Islamic ideas have been based on democracy and social justice since the thirteenth century."

This mention of the thirteenth century troubled me still more. Pakistan has other relics of the Middle Ages besides "social justice" -- the remnants of a feudal land system, for one. What would the new constitution do about that? .. "The land belongs to the God," says the Koran. This would need clarification in the constitution. Presumably Jinnah, the lawyer, would be just the person to correlate the "true Islamic principles" one heard so much about in Pakistan with the new nation's laws. But all he would tell me was that the constitution would be democratic because "the soil is perfectly fertile for democracy."

What plans did he have for the industrial development of the country? Did he hope to enlist technical or financial assistance from America?

"America needs Pakistan more than Pakistan needs America," was Jinnah's reply. "Pakistan is the pivot of the world, as we are placed" -- he revolved his long forefinger in bony circles -- "the frontier on which the future position of the world revolves." He leaned toward me, dropping his voice to a confidential note. "Russia," confided Mr. Jinnah, "is not so very far away."

This had a familiar ring. In Jinnah's mind this brave new nation had no other claim on American friendship than this - that across a wild tumble of roadless mountain ranges lay the land of the BoIsheviks. I wondered whether the Quaid-i-Azam considered his new state only as an armored buffer between opposing major powers. He was stressing America's military interest in other parts of the world. "America is now awakened," he said with a satisfied smile. Since the United States was now bolstering up Greece and Turkey, she should be much more interested in pouring money and arms into Pakistan. "If Russia walks in here," he concluded, "the whole world is menaced."

In the weeks to come I was to hear the Quaid-i-Azam's thesis echoed by government officials throughout Pakistan. "Surely America will build up our army," they would say to me. "Surely America will give us loans to keep Russia from walking in." But when I asked whether there were any signs of Russian infiltration, they would reply almost sadly, as though sorry not to be able to make more of the argument. "No, Russia has shown no signs of being interested in Pakistan."

This hope of tapping the U. S. Treasury was voiced so persistently that one wondered whether the purpose was to bolster the world against Bolshevism or to bolster Pakistan's own uncertain position as a new political entity. Actually, I think, it was more nearly related to the even more significant bankruptcy of ideas in the new Muslim state -- a nation drawing its spurious warmth from the embers of an antique religious fanaticism, fanned into a new blaze.

Jinnah's most frequently used technique in the struggle for his new nation had been the playing of opponent against opponent. Evidently this technique was now to be extended into foreign policy. ....

No one would have been more astonished than Jinnah if he could have foreseen thirty or forty years earlier that anyone would ever speak of him as a "savior of Islam." In those days any talk of religion brought a cynical smile. He condemned those who talked in terms of religious rivalries, and in the stirring period when the crusade for freedom began sweeping the country he was hailed as "the embodied symbol of Hindu-Muslim unity." The gifted Congresswoman, Mrs. Naidu, one of Jinnah's closest friends, wrote poems extolling his role as the great unifier in the fight for independence. "Perchance it is written in the book of the future," ran one of her tributes, "that he, in some terrible crisis of our national struggle, will pass into immortality" as the hero of "the Indian liberation."

In the "terrible crisis," Mahomed Ali Jinnah was to pass into immortality, not as the ambassador of unity, but as the deliberate apostle of discord. What caused this spectacular renunciation of the concept of a united India, to which he had dedicated the greater part of his life? No one knows exactly. The immediate occasion for the break, in the mid-thirties, was his opposition to Gandhi's civil disobedience program. Nehru says that Jinnah "disliked the crowds of ill-dressed people who filled the Congress" and was not at home with the new spirit rising among the common people under Gandhi's magnetic leadership. Others say it was against his legal conscience to accept Gandhi's program. One thing is certain: the break with Gandhi, Nehru, and the other Congress leaders was not caused by any Hindu-Muslim issue.

In any case, Jinnah revived the moribund Muslim League in 1936 after it had dragged through an anemic thirty years' existence, and took to the religious soapbox. He began dinning into the ears of millions of Muslims the claim that they were downtrodden solely because of Hindu domination. During the years directly preceding this move on his part, an unprecedented degree of unity had developed between Muslims and Hindus in their struggle for independence from the British Raj. The British feared this unity, and used their divide-and-rule tactics to disrupt it. Certain highly placed Indians also feared unity, dreading a popular movement which would threaten their special position. Then another decisive factor arose. Although Hindus had always been ahead of Muslims in the industrial sphere, the great Muslim feudal landlords now had aspirations toward industry. From these wealthy Muslims, who resented the well-established Hindu competition, Jinnah drew his powerful supporters. One wonders whether Jinnah was fighting to free downtrodden Muslims from domination or merely to gain an earmarked area, free from competition, for this small and wealthy clan.

The trend of events in Pakistan would support the theory that Jinnah carried the banner of the Muslim landed aristocracy, rather than that of the Muslim masses he claimed to champion. There was no hint of personal material gain in this. Jinnah was known to be personally incorruptible, a virtue which gave him a great strength with both poor and rich. The drive for personal wealth played no part in his politics. It was a drive for power. ......

Less than three months after Pakistan became a nation, Jinnah's Olympian assurance had strangely withered. His altered condition was not made public. "The Quaid-i-Azam has a bad cold" was the answer given to inquiries.

Only those closest to him knew that the "cold" was accompanied by paralyzing inability to make even the smallest decisions, by sullen silences striped with outbursts of irritation, by a spiritual numbness concealing something close to panic underneath. I knew it only because I spent most of this trying period at Government House, attempting to take a new portrait of Jinnah for a Life cover.

The Quaid-i-Azam was still revered as a messiah and deliverer by most of his people. But the "Great Leader" himself could not fail to know that all was not well in his new creation, the nation; the nation that his critics referred to as the "House that Jinnah built." The separation from the main body of India had been in many ways an unrealistic one. Pakistan raised 75 per cent of the world's jute supply; the processing mills were all in India. Pakistan raised one third of the cotton of India, but it had only one thirtieth of the cotton mills. Although it produced the bulk of Indian skins and hides, all the leather tanneries were in South India. The new state had no paper mills, few iron foundries. Rail and road facilities, insufficient at best, were still choked with refugees. Pakistan has a superbly fertile soil, and its outstanding advantage is self-sufficiency in food, but this was threatened by the never-ending flood of refugees who continued pouring in long after the peak of the religious wars had passed.

With his burning devotion to his separate Islamic nation, Jinnah had taken all these formidable obstacles in his stride. But the blow that finally broke his spirit struck at the very name of Pakistan. While the literal meaning of the name is "Land of the Pure," the word is a compound of initial letters of the Muslim majority provinces which Jinnah had expected to incorporate: P for the Punjab, A for the Afghans' area on the Northwest Frontier, S for Sind, -tan for Baluchistan. But the K was missing.

Kashmir, India's largest princely state, despite its 77 per cent Muslim population, had not fallen into the arms of Pakistan by the sheer weight of religious majority. Kashmir had acceded to India, and although it was now the scene of an undeclared war between the two nations, the fitting of the K into Pakistan was left in doubt. With the beginning of this torturing anxiety over Kashmir, the Quaid-i-Azam's siege of bad colds began, and then his dismaying withdrawal into himself. ....

Later, reflecting on what I had seen, I decided that this desperation was due to causes far deeper than anxiety over Pakistan's territorial and economic difficulties. I think that the tortured appearance of Mr. Jinnah was an indication that, in these final months of his life, he was adding up his own balance sheet. Analytical, brilliant, and no bigot, he knew what he had done. Like Doctor Faustus, he had made a bargain from which he could never be free. During the heat of the struggle he had been willing to call on all the devilish forces of superstition, and now that his new nation had been achieved the bigots were in the position of authority. The leaders of orthodoxy and a few "old families" had the final word and, to perpetuate their power, were seeing to it that the people were held in the deadening grip of religious superstition.
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 17:12 Comments || Top||

#25  Musharraf should remember the fate of former
" loyal allies " like Shah of Iran, Suharta of Indonesia and Zia - ul - Haq of Pakistan.
Posted by: muslim for peace || 04/16/2005 17:23 Comments || Top||

#26  To compare Jinnah with Musharraf is to compare a giant with a pygmie.
Posted by: muslim for peace || 04/16/2005 17:26 Comments || Top||

#27  To compare Jinnah with Musharraf is to compare a giant with a pygmie.
Posted by: muslim for peace || 04/16/2005 17:29 Comments || Top||

#28  of course! After all, Pakistan leads the world in....ummm.... what, exactly, besides Bugtis, Talibs, Marassahs, and fake documents? Not meaning to disparage Pakistan undeservedly, but I believe there's so much that I could cite that it's not necessary, is it?
Posted by: Frank G || 04/16/2005 18:22 Comments || Top||

#29  I agree.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/16/2005 18:25 Comments || Top||

#30  Of course that's the plan.
Posted by: The Mossad || 04/16/2005 18:26 Comments || Top||

#31  What plan?
Posted by: Col. Flagg || 04/16/2005 18:26 Comments || Top||

#32  The Plan is to waste Fred's bandwidth, thereby creating a market for chocolate covered cotton in Cairo.

Posted by: Milo || 04/16/2005 18:28 Comments || Top||

#33  Hush, Moron for Peace and Jon are discussing!
Posted by: Shipman || 04/16/2005 18:29 Comments || Top||

#34  Let's table this right now.
Posted by: abu Bruce || 04/16/2005 18:30 Comments || Top||

#35  Power! to them peeeeples right! on! now!
Posted by: abu Byrd || 04/16/2005 18:31 Comments || Top||

#36  35 only. Heh, no match for 'Aris-ed' threads!
Posted by: Sobiesky || 04/16/2005 18:48 Comments || Top||

#37  > giant with a pygmie

Musharraf has succeeded where Jinnah failed.

Today Pakistan gets billions in aid. It no longer needs the Russian threat. It creates the very threat (jihadi terrorism) that it is being paid to fight. It has proliferated the most dangerous nuclear technology to the most irrational rogue nations and gets rewarded with billions of US taxpayer dollars. Jinnah could never imagine such chutzpah.

Today Musharraf is feted in the city of his birth, Delhi, travelling there by 747.
Jinnah died in a run down ambulance on the side of the road.

Jinnah's children and grandchildren are Indian citizens while Musharraf's children, grandchildren and parents are US residents and citizens.

Who is the most successful? Who is the pygmy?
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 19:32 Comments || Top||

#38  Who is the most successful? Opra

Who is the pygmy? Donna Shalala
Posted by: Bin Sleepen || 04/16/2005 19:47 Comments || Top||

#39  //#36 35 only. Heh, no match for 'Aris-ed' threads!
Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-04-16 6:48:47 PM Comment Top Page 1

did he leeve for bootcamp yet?
Posted by: muck4doo || 04/16/2005 19:51 Comments || Top||

#40  dunno Mucky - I thought May....
Posted by: Frank G || 04/16/2005 20:09 Comments || Top||

#41  thinkin that wuld maker good reeality teevee show.
Posted by: muck4doo || 04/16/2005 20:11 Comments || Top||

#42  Gomer Pyle has already been done. Re-making it in Greek is not a plus.
Posted by: Tom || 04/16/2005 20:21 Comments || Top||

#43  lmao!
Posted by: muck4doo || 04/16/2005 20:26 Comments || Top||

#44  Oh! Nevermind. I was thinking Wackist Shit in the Army.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/16/2005 20:37 Comments || Top||

#45  More jihadis turned to fertilizer

Top Hizb-ul-Mujahideen commander killed


"some of the residents alleged that the militant commander was not killed in the exchange of fire but while in custody."
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 21:34 Comments || Top||

#46  Herewith I present, for your learning pleasure, this thread of Rantburg University!

Thank you john, muslim for peace. Perhaps, by the time this phase of the War on Terror has been completed, beautiful Kashmir will once again be peaceful, free of religious persecution, and open to visits from those who wish it well and remember it fondly. (I have been accused of being a Pollyanna ... today I exercise the attitude. Still, with the clear failure of the jihadi philosophy to affect the political changes its adherents seek, the possibility is real, if not yet measurable.)
Posted by: trailing wife || 04/16/2005 22:00 Comments || Top||

#47  Some statistics (graphs)

Jihadi terrorists killed

Captured weapons
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 22:19 Comments || Top||

#48  Photographs of killed jihadi terrorists
(warning - graphic images !!! )

Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 22:25 Comments || Top||

#49  More fertilizer
Warning - graphic photo!!
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 22:35 Comments || Top||

#50  Ooh what a mess , glad i left this thread when I did :)
Posted by: MacNails || 04/16/2005 22:43 Comments || Top||

#51  Martha Stewart recommends that you turn the Jihadis over once early in spring for full mulch effect, sprinkling lightly with Kosher salt to balance the Ph
Posted by: Frank G || 04/16/2005 22:58 Comments || Top||

#52  These fellas are well on their way to mulch
Warning - graphic image!
Posted by: john || 04/16/2005 23:27 Comments || Top||

Israeli troops in the Golan Heights capture infiltrator from Syria
JERUSALEM - Israeli troops captured a 21 year-old gunman who infiltrated the Israeli-controlled Golan Heights on Friday from a refugee camp in Syria, an Israeli military official said. The official, speaking on customary condition of anonymity, said the infiltrator was armed with a hunting rifle and was captured near the farming community of Hazaka in the central Golan Heights after firing nine rounds at an Israeli army outpost. She said he was a Palestinian resident of the Yarmouk refugee camp and under interrogation disclosed that he planned to kidnap an Israeli officer and bring him back to Syria.
She also noted that he wasn't too bright, and further that he was extremely fortunate to be alive.
Infiltration into the Golan Heights is relatively rare. The Israeli official said an inquiry would be conducted to determine how the gunman managed to enter the territory.
"I think he walked, sir."
"Knock it off, Avi, and go fix the damned barbed wire!"
Posted by: Steve White || 04/16/2005 00:00:00 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [336 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Was he a Pole Walter?
Posted by: Sock Puppet 0’ Doom || 04/16/2005 0:21 Comments || Top||

#2  Maybe Israel can swap this mook for the two dogs that 'infiltrated' Lebanon yesterday. And has anyone told PETA about that? Maybe the guy in the chicken suit could go and negotiate their release.
Posted by: SC88 || 04/16/2005 0:29 Comments || Top||

#3  PETA is printing up shirts now.
FREE Schlemiel and Schlimazel!
Unfortunately the chicken suit guy started yelling "The chickens have come home to roost" and Wendy's employees misunderstood him to say roast, and now there are reports of chicken fingers in the chicken fingers. But as luck would have it Jesse Jackson has volunteered to "negotiate, not expatiate but exonerate the canines incarcerate".
Posted by: Gleaper Cleregum9549 || 04/16/2005 1:29 Comments || Top||

#4  I like that, GC. It's got a certain rhythm and rhyme.

Negotiate, not expatiate
exonerate the incarcerates ....
Posted by: too true || 04/16/2005 7:59 Comments || Top||

#5  Geez, that's good stuff GC. Ever note how poetry comes natural like to Gleapers?
Posted by: Shipman || 04/16/2005 8:44 Comments || Top||

#6  boy's got talent ... (assuming GC's a boy, if not the girl's got talent)
Posted by: too true || 04/16/2005 13:58 Comments || Top||

#7  ...the kid's got talent...

There -- that's nicely neutral for you, too true ;-) And true, too.
Posted by: trailing wife || 04/16/2005 22:09 Comments || Top||

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Meet the Mods
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Steve White
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Two weeks of WOT
Sat 2005-04-16
  2 Iraq graves may hold remains of 7,000
Fri 2005-04-15
  Basayev nearly busted, fake leg seized
Thu 2005-04-14
  Eleven Paks charged with Spanish terror plot
Wed 2005-04-13
  10 dead in Mosul suicide bombings
Tue 2005-04-12
  3 charged with plot to attack US targets
Mon 2005-04-11
  U.S.-Iraqi Raid Nets 65 Suspected Terrs
Sun 2005-04-10
  Tater thugs protest US presence in Iraq
Sat 2005-04-09
  Scores dead as Yemeni Army seizes rebel outposts
Fri 2005-04-08
  2 killed, 18 injured in explosion at major Cairo tourist bazaar
Thu 2005-04-07
  Hard Boyz shoot up Srinagar bus station
Wed 2005-04-06
  Final count, 18 dead in al-Ras shoot-out
Tue 2005-04-05
  Turkey Seeks Life For Caliph of Cologne
Mon 2005-04-04
  Saudi raid turns into deadly firefight
Sun 2005-04-03
  Zarq claims Abu Ghraib attack
Sat 2005-04-02
  Pope John Paul II dies
Fri 2005-04-01
  Abbas Orders Crackdown After Gunnies Shoot Up His HQ

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