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Zahhar: Abbas has no authorization to end resistance
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
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Page 4: Opinion
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-Short Attention Span Theater-
Secret DaVinci Lab Found
Researchers have discovered the hidden laboratory used by Leonardo Da Vinci for studies of flight and other pioneering scientific work in previously sealed rooms at a monastery next to the Basilica of the Santissima Annunziata, in the heart of Florence.

The workshop rooms, located between the Institute for Military Geography and the Basilica, include frescos on walls painted by Da Vinci that have "impressive resemblances" to other examples of his experimental work, including a tryptich of birds circling above a subsequently erased representation of the Virgin Mary that "constitutes a clear citation of the studies by the Maestro on the flight of birds", according to the three researchers, Alessandro Del Meglio, Roberto Manneschalchi and Maria Carchio.

An angel painted as standing at the side of the fresco scene bears a striking resemblance to the angel in an Annunciation attributed to Da Vinci in Florence's Uffizi Gallery. snip

The discovery coincides with the opening in Rome on Tuesday of another major exhibit of 70 tables from Da Vinci's Codex Atalanticus, incorporating his visions of flying and other machines at Rome's Lincei Academy.snip The exhibition displays Da Vinci's designs next to working models of his versions of machines and modern machines operating today.snip
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/12/2005 3:19:33 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  In those days religion was the playing firled of the ignorany. The execution or imprisionment of various personalities who were seekers of knowledge was endemic in the body politic of the time :

BARTOLOMEU DE GUSMÃO

Father Bartolomeu de Gusmão, a Jesuit priest, was a major figure in aerostatics and is renowned for the bird-shaped balloon he built and which was named "Passarola".

On 8 August 1709, in “Casa da India”, Gusmão made a hot-air filled paper balloon ascent 4 meters in the presence of the court, the Ambassadors, and religious dignitaries, among whom was Cardinal Conti (later Pope Innocent XIII). The hot air was produced by “fire burning in a clay bowl nested in a wooden tray at the bottom of the balloon.” Fearing that the curtains would catch fire, the servants destroyed the balloon, but the experiment was a success.

Bartolomeu de Gusmão proceeded with his experiments with larger balloons and the legend has it that eventually he himself flew a balloon which was launched from St. Jorge Castle, on top of one of Lisbon’s seven hills, covered 1 km, and crashed in Terreiro do Paço. This bird-shaped balloon was to become known as the “Passarola”, but following this feat, Gusmão’s fortunes seemed to have waned. Intrigue and jealousy made him fall from grace and, when he was black-listed by the Inquisition, he found sanctuary with the Jesuits who sent him to Spain in 1724, where he eventually died in total destitution.


In modern times it is the athiest academics who are the troublesome ones like those who will not allow non-athiests into their university courses...

Full circle in 400 years...
Posted by: BigEd || 01/12/2005 16:37 Comments || Top||

#2  In those days religion was the playing field of the ignorant
Posted by: BigEd || 01/12/2005 16:38 Comments || Top||

#3  Belaclava was lost on the playing fields of Eaton.
Posted by: Shipman || 01/12/2005 18:13 Comments || Top||


wheren art thou roseanne?
No one knows for sure who he was, that Middle Eastern man in an American flag shirt and a cowboy hat who was supposed to sing the national anthem at a rodeo Friday night in the Salem Civic Center. But he sure shook up this town before leaving in a hurry. Introduced as Boraq Sagdiyev from Kazakhstan, he was said to be an immigrant touring America. A film crew was with him, doing some sort of documentary. And he wanted to sing "The Star-Spangled Banner" to show his appreciation, the announcer told the crowd.

Speaking in broken English, the mysterious man first told the decidedly pro-American crowd - it was a rodeo, of all things, in Salem, of all places - that he supported the war on terrorism. "I hope you kill every man, woman and child in Iraq, down to the lizards," he said, according to Brett Sharp of Star Country WSLC, who was also on stage that night as a media sponsor of the rodeo. An uneasy murmur ran through the crowd.

"And may George W. Bush drink the blood of every man, woman and child in Iraq," he continued, according to Robynn Jaymes, who co-hosts a morning radio show with Sharp and was also among the stunned observers. The crowd's reaction was loud enough for John Saunders, the civic center's assistant director, to hear from the front office. "It was a restless kind of booing," Saunders said. Then the man took off his hat and sang what he said was his native national anthem. He then told the crowd to be seated, put his hat back on, and launched into a butchered version of "The Star-Spangled Banner" that ended with the words "your home in the grave," Sharp said.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: muck4doo || 01/12/2005 1:15:51 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The funniest man in Kazakhstan! Well, the Kazaks have never really been known for their humor....
Posted by: Secret Master || 01/12/2005 14:29 Comments || Top||

#2  I'd subscribe to HBO just to see this d!ckhead dragged and stomped by a bull.
Posted by: ed || 01/12/2005 15:08 Comments || Top||

#3  LOL! Mucki you're just plane weird. You must have the search boolean from Bedlam or some such.
Posted by: Shipman || 01/12/2005 15:53 Comments || Top||

#4  Any applicable provision in the Patriot Act here? Like, get the fudge outta here, pilgrim?
Posted by: Captain America || 01/12/2005 17:25 Comments || Top||

#5  LOL Borat's back... Baron Cohen pulled a very similar stunt in the guise of Borat a few years ago during his first trip to the States - singing in front of a crowd at a sporting event. His trick that time was to sing his own 'anthem' in full, which took forever. That series was one of the funniest I've ever seen on TV (appealed to my somewhat absurd sense of humour) - his victims were across the political and social spectrum (he had Ralph Nader rapping, ridiculed the French language in conversation with "Boutros Boutros Boutro Boutros-Ghali", and seriously cheesed off the staff at the UN. Some real hoots with some real dupes). Sadly he's become more political and less genuinely funny with successive series, and he's hardly worth watching any more.
Posted by: Bulldog || 01/12/2005 17:56 Comments || Top||


-Signs, Portents, and the Weather-
It's Not An Official Disaster Till You Get The Concert
Elton John has joined the lineup for what has now been expanded into a two-hour telecast to raise funds for victims of the South Asian tsunami. NBC Universal said the lineup for "Tsunami Aid: A Concert of Hope" -- which already included Madonna, Eric Clapton, Norah Jones, Jan & Dean Sheryl Crow, Beach Boys Stevie Wonder, Dick Dale Kenny Chesney, Tom Jones and The Ventures Gloria Estefan -- has also been expanded to include Nelly and Annie Lennox. Producers also announced Clint Eastwood, Renee Zellweger, Ray Romano, Ben Affleck and Morgan Freeman will appear on the special, scheduled to air live at 8 p.m. Saturday over NBC and its cable channels. Halle Berry, Usher, George Clooney, Uma Thurman, Matt Damon, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Michael Douglas, Bruce Willis, Danny DeVito, Tim Robbins, Eric McCormack and Sean Hayes are also scheduled to appear on the show. NBC Universal is producing the special in collaboration with the American Red Cross.
Posted by: Steve || 01/12/2005 12:36:02 PM || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  More like Gettinp Aid.
Posted by: BH || 01/12/2005 13:11 Comments || Top||

#2  How much foreign aid's getting shipped in to California? When's Kofi showing up?
Posted by: tu3031 || 01/12/2005 16:31 Comments || Top||

#3  I'd actually pay money to see Dick Dale and the Ventures, good musicians, and of course Tom Jones on general principal.
Posted by: Hupereger Clish6229 aka Jarhead || 01/12/2005 21:20 Comments || Top||

#4  agreed, and Eastwood's motivation is non-political left.....
Posted by: Frank G || 01/12/2005 21:29 Comments || Top||


Britain
Tougher intruder laws ruled out in UK
In sum: UK citizens may continue to roll up their copy of the Grauniad, but they may not rap the intruder sharply on the snout with it, nor even display it in a manner that could be construed as "threatening," on account of the intruder's self-esteem, which could be damaged by such posture.
The law on the amount of force householders can use against burglars will not be changed, Home Secretary Charles Clarke has announced. A review has concluded the current law, which allows people to use "reasonable force" against intruders, is "sound". But Mr Clarke says there will be a publicity campaign to ensure people understand they can protect themselves. "What we would not want to do is extend [the present law] so you actually feel it's your responsibility to go down the stairs and actually attack the burglar," said Mr Oaten.
Well, it is the BBC.
Thanks, Aunty!
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/12/2005 3:30:42 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Texas Intruder Law; "If I find you in my house tonight, they'll find you there tomorrow"
Posted by: Steve || 01/12/2005 16:39 Comments || Top||

#2  English Public: get these clowns out of office NOW!
Posted by: Secret Master || 01/12/2005 16:45 Comments || Top||

#3  Y'know...

If the intruder enters, but does not exit...

And the next trash pickup to the community dumpster has about 150-200 pounds of extra in lawn cleanup bags, although everyone lives in an apartment...

And there was a curious short in the electricity for a few seconds. There is that project of your artistically talented daughter with the diamond nose stud brought home from art school. An aluminum foil carpet, now with two foot-shaped char marks, and a curious discoloration where an "exposed" electrical cord, plugged in, ran under it. Now she says her project is ruined...

There would be just another name of a man with a criminal record added to the police missing persons list...

No body - no body of the crime...
Posted by: BigEd || 01/12/2005 17:00 Comments || Top||

#4  I'm right there with ya, BigEd. You have to look at this in terms of the incentives created. The way I see it, they are giving the resident the incentive to kill the intruder and hide the corpse. Big loss.
Posted by: BH || 01/12/2005 17:25 Comments || Top||

#5  The eventual solution to problems like this is vigilantism in some form. It can be as simple as several large men approaching a stranger in their 'hood and asking him to leave, to outright murder. But it does require that the citizenry decide that, since the authorities aren't helping, then they need to be excluded from the process entirely. That is, nobody *ever* calls the police, even if the body lays in the gutter for a week. This in itself is an even more powerful message to the authorities than a body being there in the first place. "But why didn't anyone call?", "Because you are of no help--you are useless", sends deep shock waves through all levels of government.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 01/12/2005 17:31 Comments || Top||

#6  A slightly different perspective:

"What we would not want to do is extend [the present law] so you actually feel it’s your responsibility to go down the stairsinto the cockpit and actually attack the burglarhijackers,"
Posted by: Dishman || 01/12/2005 18:23 Comments || Top||

#7  While I appreciate the participation of Blair in the WoT this is again proof that he and his Labor party just don't get it. Criminals of every stripe should understand that any occupied abode has a invisible sign that says come in here and die posted. They should also understand that it means what it says.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom || 01/12/2005 19:05 Comments || Top||

#8  Intruder meet spade in face and dog on leg . Then spade in face again . Call it vigilantism of some description if you please , I call it protection .
If I go to jail , so what , I'll likely be out in 3 months for good behaviour as our detaining laws are sooo crap .
Posted by: MacNails || 01/12/2005 19:06 Comments || Top||

#9  There goes MacNails, being all moderate again! :-)
Posted by: Seafarious || 01/12/2005 20:22 Comments || Top||

#10  There goes MacNails, being all moderate again! :-)
Posted by: Seafarious || 01/12/2005 20:22 Comments || Top||

#11  "What we would not want to do is extend [the present law] so you actually feel it’s your responsibility to go down the stairs and actually attack the burglar," said Mr Oaten.

What happened to the policy of pre-emptive strikes, i.e. shooting intruders just across the threshold? The Brits just don't get the beauty of our Second Amendment.
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/12/2005 20:28 Comments || Top||

#12  What is needed in the UK is for the population to have a Network moment, and use their voting power to toss as many MPs out as possible that have ANY kind of reservations about victims of crime fighting back in whatever way possible.

When a person can be prosecuted and jailed for protecting his/her property against criminals, I'd say that the point has been reached where enough is enough.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 01/12/2005 22:29 Comments || Top||


Europe
U.S. Military baselets in Bulgaria?
The United States Congress will consider a list of eight military bases in new NATO member Bulgaria to use jointly with its troops, the daily Dnevnik reported Wednesday.

The daily quoted NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe Gen. James Jones and Bulgarian Army Chief of Staff Gen. Nikola Kolev the bases in question include the Graf Ignatievo and Bezmer airfields, the Sarafovo civilian airport, the port of Burgas, the Atia naval base, the Novo Selo ground forces practice ground and two defunct army facilities, whose location was not disclosed.

On Wednesday a Ministry of Defence spokesman said the U.S. was looking just at [the Bezmer, Atia and Novo Selo facilities].

Jones said the bases in Bulgaria, should not be seen as American military outposts. [T]hey would be smaller than current bases in Western Europe that the Pantagon is planning to close down. (see? "baselets"!)

The new facilities will have logistic functions and will be used to train U.S. and NATO troops, Dnevnik quoted Joens as saying.
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/12/2005 3:26:35 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Cantonment?
Posted by: Don || 01/12/2005 17:20 Comments || Top||

#2  Specializing in surface-to-air missiles, no doubt.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 01/12/2005 17:32 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Politix
The 'Media Party' Is Over
Posted by: tipper || 01/12/2005 21:47 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Could Cold War spies sue the CIA?
Posted by: God Save The World || 01/12/2005 7:08:04 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This seems like a guy who got greedy after helping the US to win the cold war - he got caught in the downdraft of the recession.

BUt then again, you have to consider the effects of such actions on people whoa re currently considering becoming "spies" for the US. IF they see the CIA screwing over (in their eyes, not ours) someone who helped them win the cold war, then how can we expect to have them beleive any of the promises we make to them now that we will take care of the spy and their family?

Tough case. I think its "penny-wise and pound foolish". And indicative of more mismanagement at CIA.
Posted by: OldSpook || 01/12/2005 10:42 Comments || Top||

#2  And indicative of more mismanagement at CIA.

What I'd like to know is, did the CIA actually make that kind of a promise? Nowhere in the article is this established as fact, and the plaintiffs' they-told-me-so claim doesn't make it true.

If the paintiffs are simply trying to pull one over on the government, then the CIA needs to defend itself on that grounds, instead of saying that the plaintiffs have no legal right to sue, which sounds too much like a coverup of some sort (at least to me it does).

And if the CIA operatives did make that kind of promise, they should live up to it, and choose their words a bit more carefully the next time around.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 01/12/2005 12:18 Comments || Top||

#3  If the two are what they claim and the CIA broke their promises, then they should be eligible for compensation and damages. They performed a vital and dangerous mission for the US and the west. The consequences of them getting caught would have been execution. They earned at least the same protections of any US citizen.
Posted by: ed || 01/12/2005 12:35 Comments || Top||

#4  This seems like a guy who got greedy after helping the US to win the cold war - he got caught in the downdraft of the recession.

BUt then again, you have to consider the effects of such actions on people whoa re currently considering becoming "spies" for the US. IF they see the CIA screwing over (in their eyes, not ours) someone who helped them win the cold war, then how can we expect to have them beleive any of the promises we make to them now that we will take care of the spy and their family?

Tough case. I think its "penny-wise and pound foolish". And indicative of more mismanagement at CIA.
Posted by: OldSpook || 01/12/2005 10:42 Comments || Top||

#5  This seems like a guy who got greedy after helping the US to win the cold war - he got caught in the downdraft of the recession.

BUt then again, you have to consider the effects of such actions on people whoa re currently considering becoming "spies" for the US. IF they see the CIA screwing over (in their eyes, not ours) someone who helped them win the cold war, then how can we expect to have them beleive any of the promises we make to them now that we will take care of the spy and their family?

Tough case. I think its "penny-wise and pound foolish". And indicative of more mismanagement at CIA.
Posted by: OldSpook || 01/12/2005 10:42 Comments || Top||


Dems look ahead: whom to hate in 2008
ScrappleFace
(2005-01-10) -- As the internal wrangling over who will lead the Democrat party continues, some within the party already grapple with a bigger question: "Whom shall we hate in 2008?"

According to a Washington Post report today, Democrats already have a comprehensive, progressive, optimistic, results-oriented plan for the next four years -- blocking President George Bush's efforts to keep his campaign promises.

But once President Bush enters his final year in the White House, some strategists worry that the party will lack a suitable "target of rage" so essential to fundraising efforts.

"It's hard to imagine," said one consultant, "getting all worked up over Rudy Giuliani, Condi Rice or even Jeb Bush. But that's what we must do. And we need to start laying the foundation for anger against each top Republican now so we'll be ready for whoever emerges as the frontrunner."

Strategists agree that the alternative to their "anybody but blank" (ABB) philosophy would be "to develop a set of principles for governance based on the founders' vision of this nation, the dignity of individuals and families and on extending the blessings of liberty to oppressed people worldwide."

"Of course, that's already being done," the unnamed consultant said. "So, we need to bring something fresh to the marketplace of ideas. I'm already starting to like the sound of 'Anybody But Rice.'"
Posted by: Korora || 01/12/2005 12:04:24 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  It may be ScrappleFace, but it's far closer to a slam dunk prediction than satire.
Posted by: PBMcL || 01/12/2005 0:51 Comments || Top||

#2  2008 is going to be a catfight of the highest order. I heard Newt is throwing his hat into the ring. I don't know but he could be a huge target for the left. He actually got rid of welfare as a lifetime entitlement.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge || 01/12/2005 11:35 Comments || Top||

#3  Although this is a scrappleface, I did hear on Fox, the Dems are really going about doing this, i.e. trying to find new ways to be disruptive and a nuisance in general. Hell, we have not even inaugerated George W. yet. I'll bet the Dems will still be counting votes in Ohio in 2008. The Dem attitude is "We don't have anything viable or useful to do so why don't we just make ourselves a pain in the ass" for everyone else.
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/12/2005 11:41 Comments || Top||

#4  Newt's hubris is causing him to make a huge error in judgement. He couldn't win the Rep majority, and he sur as hell isn't going to get Dem votes. His relationship/lifestyle decisions won't endear him to women either
Posted by: Frank G || 01/12/2005 12:03 Comments || Top||

#5  Agreed Frank G. Newt doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell. I think his value is in framing issues--and perhaps policy and legislation. However, he will be ducking a lot of political bullets. I don't think he can make it by the primaries. He may slow the process of the Republicans getting to a viable candidate for 2008. Dems also have a problem of finding a viable candidate. The Dem party is bankrupt for ideas and and direction.
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/12/2005 12:14 Comments || Top||

#6  Hmm-could it be that the Dems will no longer be living by the mantra of their fearless and spotless leader:

Avoid the politics of personal destruction?
Posted by: Jules 187 || 01/12/2005 12:17 Comments || Top||

#7  Actually, for selfish reasons, I'd like to see if the Dems can come up with a winning candidate. Hillary-uh unh, her negs are terrible, even with feminists. Lieberman? At least the guy has some level of self-preservation (apparently missing from most Dems), but he, like Kerry, has a voice custom made for putting a person to sleep. Is there a Democratic contender out there who is a pragmatic, honest, charismatic, and hard-working leader? All I hear is the echo of wind in a seashell.

Interesting item to consider: If Hillary runs opposite Giuliani. I love Giuliani for what he did in NY and think he would be a far superior president to Hillary, but Kerik's splash is still soaking him through with the morality question. Opposite Hillary, the sympathy meter for marital misdeeds and sexual immorality will likely and unfortunately tilt towards Hillary (louse vs lous-ee).

Generally, though, what a waste for these Dems-spending time on who to knock, instead of using these 2-3 years between elections to find a winning candidate.
Posted by: Jules 187 || 01/12/2005 12:32 Comments || Top||

#8  The New Improved Tree from Tennessee?
Posted by: Shipman || 01/12/2005 16:04 Comments || Top||

#9  Why not try one of these guys?
http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2066&p=3
Posted by: Secret Master || 01/12/2005 19:56 Comments || Top||

#10  Well, now, that didn't work....

Try this folks: www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2066&p=3
Posted by: Secret Master || 01/12/2005 19:58 Comments || Top||


Home Front: WoT
Hacker breaches T-Mobile systems, reads US Secret Service email
Posted by: Dutchgeek || 01/12/2005 05:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  l33t H4x0rz Rox0rz ma Boxorz! N3v4h h€$i+Åt£ l33tness !!
Posted by: MacNails || 01/12/2005 10:12 Comments || Top||

#2  Non-issue. These guys are just puffing things up to make for a better story.

If it was anything truly classified, it would not be on a non-secure system, especially an over-the-air system like that. If they allowed classified to spill there, the agents in question should have their asses handed to them for breaching security.

From my experience:

"Sensitive" documents? That means they wer not classified -otherwise they would have said "classified documents". Bascially, these are things like confirmations of actions and unclassified policy stuff (like the memorandum alluded to in the article). At worst it was "Unclassified/FOUO" info, probably due to personal privacy issues (Privacy laws cause a lot of stuff to be marked for restricted distribution due to sensitive nature of personal info in them - if you dont, you can get sued). If there was any truly classified stuff there the agent who put it there should be fired.

Putting on my "devil's Advocate" hat...

Remember, its in the best interest of the press AND the Secret Service to "play up" the nature of the documents, because it makes for a better story for the press, and makes the uninformed judge/jury think that these documents were somehow more special, and thus more likely to convict and hand down a harsh sentence. And the Secret Service can then use the threat of that to bargain with him to flip to their side.
Posted by: OldSpook || 01/12/2005 10:20 Comments || Top||

#3  Look Here for a definition of FOUO.
Posted by: OldSpook || 01/12/2005 10:23 Comments || Top||

#4  OS ...good point!
Posted by: 2b || 01/12/2005 10:30 Comments || Top||

#5  ...and yet some of these hackers are quite bright, have too much time on their hands, are motivated, and have a kind of sociopathic personality that drives them to match wits with in place computer security systems. Computer security might be an achilles heel for a technologically sophisticated country. Hackers don't have to hack into Secret Service computer files; they can go after less secure targets and raise havoc. We need to focus a lot of attention on protecting computer systems that are tied to our infrastructure.
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/12/2005 10:43 Comments || Top||

#6  While it may not be significant for the Secret Service... it looks really bad for T-Mobile.
... particularly since he was able to target users.
There's something in the back of my head regarding Catherine Zeta Jones, photographs, and a lawsuit.
Posted by: Dishman || 01/12/2005 11:18 Comments || Top||

#7  Dishman. Catherine Zeta Jones. Oh, er, what was the rest of your message? I had trouble getting by CZJ.
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/12/2005 11:21 Comments || Top||

#8  There's something in the back of my head regarding Catherine Zeta Jones,..

With T-Mobile, I guess you really do "get more".
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 01/12/2005 13:04 Comments || Top||

#9  Just a 'connection' of T-Mobile, their spokesman, and a lawsuit by her over publication of 'personal photos'. I'm not saying they're connected to this.
Posted by: Dishman || 01/12/2005 16:52 Comments || Top||

#10  Non-issue. These guys are just puffing things up to make for a better story.

If it was anything truly classified, it would not be on a non-secure system, especially an over-the-air system like that. If they allowed classified to spill there, the agents in question should have their asses handed to them for breaching security.

From my experience:

"Sensitive" documents? That means they wer not classified -otherwise they would have said "classified documents". Bascially, these are things like confirmations of actions and unclassified policy stuff (like the memorandum alluded to in the article). At worst it was "Unclassified/FOUO" info, probably due to personal privacy issues (Privacy laws cause a lot of stuff to be marked for restricted distribution due to sensitive nature of personal info in them - if you dont, you can get sued). If there was any truly classified stuff there the agent who put it there should be fired.

Putting on my "devil's Advocate" hat...

Remember, its in the best interest of the press AND the Secret Service to "play up" the nature of the documents, because it makes for a better story for the press, and makes the uninformed judge/jury think that these documents were somehow more special, and thus more likely to convict and hand down a harsh sentence. And the Secret Service can then use the threat of that to bargain with him to flip to their side.
Posted by: OldSpook || 01/12/2005 10:20 Comments || Top||

#11  Look Here for a definition of FOUO.
Posted by: OldSpook || 01/12/2005 10:23 Comments || Top||

#12  Non-issue. These guys are just puffing things up to make for a better story.

If it was anything truly classified, it would not be on a non-secure system, especially an over-the-air system like that. If they allowed classified to spill there, the agents in question should have their asses handed to them for breaching security.

From my experience:

"Sensitive" documents? That means they wer not classified -otherwise they would have said "classified documents". Bascially, these are things like confirmations of actions and unclassified policy stuff (like the memorandum alluded to in the article). At worst it was "Unclassified/FOUO" info, probably due to personal privacy issues (Privacy laws cause a lot of stuff to be marked for restricted distribution due to sensitive nature of personal info in them - if you dont, you can get sued). If there was any truly classified stuff there the agent who put it there should be fired.

Putting on my "devil's Advocate" hat...

Remember, its in the best interest of the press AND the Secret Service to "play up" the nature of the documents, because it makes for a better story for the press, and makes the uninformed judge/jury think that these documents were somehow more special, and thus more likely to convict and hand down a harsh sentence. And the Secret Service can then use the threat of that to bargain with him to flip to their side.
Posted by: OldSpook || 01/12/2005 10:20 Comments || Top||

#13  Look Here for a definition of FOUO.
Posted by: OldSpook || 01/12/2005 10:23 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
Japan mulls setting up tsunami orphanage
Japan said Tuesday it would provide funds as quickly as possible to help children who lost parents in Asia's tsunamis and mulled setting up an orphanage.
No, no. That won't do. Japan's not Islamic...
The Indonesian government has banned the adoption of children from the devastated province of Aceh amid reports that human traffickers were spiriting youngsters away. Japanese Justice Minister Chieko Nono proposed at a cabinet meeting that the government fund a home for orphans in a disaster-hit area, according to Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura, who said Tokyo would consult international organizations on the best way to contribute. "Considering the reports children orphaned by the disaster are being trafficked in Indonesia and other countries, we cannot leave the situation as it is," Machimura told reporters. "I would like to consider what Japan can do for them (the orphans) as quickly as possible in coordination with UNICEF and others," he said.
Posted by: Fred || 01/12/2005 00:00:00 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Helicopter transporting Maluku governor crashes on Wetar island
A helicopter transporting Maluku Governor Karel Alberth Rala Halu and Patimura Military Commander Brig. Gen. Syarifuddin crashed on Wetar island, Southwest Maluku, on Tuesday. No casualties have been reported. The helicopter, which was also transporting a number of Maluku officials, flew to the island on Tuesday morning from Kupang, said Umbu Saga Anakaka, spokesman of East Nusa Tenggara province. The helicopter's engine cut out moments after take off and crashed into a building, Anakaka said. East Nusa Tenggara Governor Piet A. Tallo, Anakaka said, had instructed the head of local transportation office to prepare a speedboat to pick up the helicopter passengers from Wetar.
Too bad it couldn't happen to a planeload of MMI thugs, only with casualties...
Posted by: Fred || 01/12/2005 00:00:00 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Aid workers face Aceh restrictions
"Welcome to Shariah Fantasy Island! Allan's finest are watching you...
Indonesia has announced all foreigners and aid groups must seek official approval and be escorted on any travel in Aceh province outside of the capital, Banda Aceh, and the town of Meulaboh. For nearly two years, the Indonesian military has been waging an often brutal military campaign against separatists in Aceh, largely free of attention from the media. It had imposed tough entry and movement restrictions in Aceh which went out the window when the disaster struck. But with the military still waging war, General Endriartono Sutarto has announced that armed forces must accompany and monitor aid groups and foreigners on all missions outside Banda Aceh and Meulaboh. Indonesia's coordinating minister for people's welfare, Alwi Shihab, says more vaguely that Indonesian teams will accompany aid movements. The International Crisis Group disputes the military's motives, saying the rebels have no interest in attacking foreigners. It says the Indonesian Army is seeking to reimpose its rigid control on Aceh province, while it still has the chance.
Note: the International Crisis Group is blaming the Indon military, not the rebels. Read on:
In other developments: Hardline Muslim leaders in Indonesia have warned that Australian troops should not stay long in Aceh, the region worst hit by the Boxing Day tsunami.
So is the army brutally suppressing legitimate resistance or trying to keep aid workers from being sacrificed to the moon god? Guess it's all relative...
Posted by: God Save The World || 01/12/2005 5:28:45 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  One good source of opinion and information about these matters is the voice of Sidney Jones, the South East Asia Project Director of the International Crisis Group. In a BBC piece, Will Indonesia seize its chance? she writes:
The tsunami disaster that struck Aceh could change the dynamics of the long-running conflict there between government forces and pro-independence fighters - but only if the relief effort is well handled. If it isn't, resentment of Acehnese toward the central government could increase, and we could all be back to square one. Aceh has a proud history of resisting outside rule. * * * Last September, the Indonesian military claimed that since martial law, it had killed 2,879 Gam members, arrested 1,798 and accepted the surrender of 1,954. * * * The tsunami hit only a few months into the presidency of Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who promised during his campaign to look for non-military solutions to Aceh. But he put no new ideas on the table and, in November, he extended the state of emergency in Aceh for another six months. * * * The relief and reconstruction efforts now underway will help keep Aceh open, and this in turn will likely lead to pressure for an end to the emergency. It will not lead to negotiations with the rebels, because the military is dead set against the idea, convinced that talking is a sign of weakness, that it gives Gam legitimacy that it does not deserve, and that it would undo all its efforts to crush the insurgency by force. Can military operations and a state of emergency co-exist with a huge international relief effort without running into serious friction? If the Indonesian military continue to work alongside relief agencies and cannot separate its humanitarian and counterinsurgency roles, it could undermine what should be the apolitical nature of humanitarian relief. * * * In many parts of Aceh, dissatisfaction with the government tends to lead to support for Gam, despite the latter's none-too-stellar record on human rights. If the government does not get in place a smooth machine for delivering aid, we are going to have anger at Jakarta, and in some areas, a new rationale for recruitment into the insurgency. The problem is that the same old government institutions, mired in corruption, incompetence and inertia, have been mobilized for a task that is larger than they have ever had to handle before, and it is not clear that they are up to the job. This disaster has created opportunities for conflict resolution. The question is whether anyone will seize them.
Posted by: cingold || 01/12/2005 2:32 Comments || Top||

#2  And, in other news, the new Indo Pres may be seeking to strike while the iron is hot and drive a wedge between the islamofascists and the GAM “rebels” seeking autonomy in Aceh. See link, President Seeks Foreign Input on Rebel Issue.
Laksamana.Net -- President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono on Monday (10/1/05) met with the ambassadors of Britain, Japan, Libya, Singapore, Sweden and the US to hear their views on how to resolve the separatist conflict in Aceh, said a senior government official. * * * “The Indonesian government actually wants to resolve the Aceh problem directly with GAM, but the obstacle is that its leaders are in Sweden. So we have asked the Swedish ambassador to pass on this message,” Yusril was quoted as saying by detikcom online news portal. * * * five rebel negotiators survived the devastating December 26 earthquake and tsunamis as they had recently been transferred to jails in Java, whereas hundreds of other rebels detained in Aceh were killed when the gigantic waves destroyed their prisons. * * * There are hopes that Yudhoyono will be more successful than his predecessor Megawati Sukarnpoputri in bringing peace to Aceh. Yudhoyono was Megawati’s chief security minister when Indonesia signed a short-lived truce with GAM in December 2002. * * *
Posted by: cingold || 01/12/2005 2:49 Comments || Top||

#3  Here's an idea: Stop the aid effort, let the two sides battle it out now and settle the matter once and for all. Then resume aid operations after they're done.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 01/12/2005 14:13 Comments || Top||


Sri Lanka
Lanka Prez to adopt Tamil orphan
Posted by: Fred || 01/12/2005 00:00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Stoning has been dropped from Iranian penal code, spokesman
"No, no! We're much more modern than that! We just flog them to shreds and then hang 'em!"
Stoning has been dropped from the penal code for a long time, the Judiciary spokesman Jamal Karimirad said on Tuesday. Karimirad said that propaganda campaign had been launched accusing Iran of stoning certain individual. "Even senior officials of different states have voiced concern over stoning certain individual, whereas, international observers can see her alive in Iran," Karimirad said. "We do not have stoning in our penal code for a long time," he said. Asked whether the Judiciary respects the law that the students involved in demonstrations should be dealt by the Campus Disciplinary Committee, Karimirad said that the Judiciary Chief Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi believes that charges against the students over unrest in the universities falls within the jurisdiction of the disciplinary committees.
Posted by: Fred || 01/12/2005 00:00:00 || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under:

#1  click here for more info
Posted by: MacNails || 01/12/2005 10:06 Comments || Top||

#2  No stoning. I thought Dylan said "Everybody must get stoned."
Posted by: John Q. Citizen || 01/12/2005 14:32 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Tech
Hacker Breaks Into T-Mobile Network
A hacker broke into a wireless carrier's network over at least seven months and read e-mails and personal computer files of hundreds of customers, including the Secret Service agent investigating the hacker, the government said Wednesday.

The hacker obtained an internal Secret Service memorandum and part of a mutual assistance legal treaty from Russia. The documents contained "highly sensitive information pertaining to ongoing ... criminal cases," according to court records.

The break-in targeted the network for Bellevue, Wash.-based T-Mobile USA, which has 16.3 million customers in the United States. It was discovered during a broad Secret Service investigation, "Operation Firewall," which targeted underground hacker organizations known as Shadowcrew, Carderplanet and Darkprofits.

Nicolas Lee Jacobsen, 21, of Santa Ana, Calif., a computer engineer, has been charged with the break-in in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles. Investigators said they traced the hacker's online activities to a hotel near Buffalo, N.Y., where Jacobsen was staying.

Jacobsen, who was arrested in October in California, has been released on a $25,000 bond posted by his uncle, who was ordered to keep his own personal computer locked up so Jacobsen couldn't use it.

The hacker was able to view the names and Social Security (news - web sites) numbers of 400 customers, all of whom were notified in writing about the break-in, T-Mobile said. It said customer credit card numbers and other financial information never were revealed.

"Safeguarding T-Mobile customer information is a top priority for the company," said a spokesman, Peter Dobrow. He said T-Mobile discovered the break-in late in 2003 and "immediately took steps that prevented any further access to this system."

Court records said the hacker had access to T-Mobile customer information from at least March through October last year.

An online offer in March 2004, traced to Jacobsen, claimed hackers could look up the name, Social Security number, birth date and passwords for voice mails and e-mails for T-Mobile customers, court records said.

The Secret Service (news - web sites) said its agent, Peter Cavicchia, should not have been using his personal handheld computer for government work. Cavicchia, a respected investigator who has specialized in tracking hackers, was a T-Mobile customer who coincidentally was investigating the T-Mobile break-in, according to court documents and a Secret Service spokesman, Jonathan Cherry.

Cavicchia, who won the Secret Service's medal of valor for his actions in the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, resigned to work in the private sector. He told The Associated Press he was not asked to leave and said he was cleared during an internal investigation into whether he had improperly revealed sensitive information or violated agency rules.

The case against Jacobsen was first reported by the Web site Security Focus, which is owned by Symantec Corp.

Cherry, the Secret Service spokesman, said the agency's own e-mail servers were not affected by the T-Mobile break-in. "The account was a personal account of a Secret Service agent that was for a time compromised," Cherry said.

Cavicchia's T-Mobile handheld computer contained "very limited investigative material" that was obtained by the hacker, Cherry said, adding that no government investigations were compromised. Cherry said Secret Service policies prohibit agents from keeping work-related files on personal computers.

Cavicchia said Secret Service supervisors frequently e-mailed documents and other files to his wireless computer to review while he was traveling. "The only way for me to review documents while I was on the road was for them to send them to that address, which they knew wasn't an agency address," Cavicchia said.

John Frazzini, a former Secret Service agent, praised Cavicchia, who worked on some of the government's most sensational hacker cases. "His record is one of the most impressive that I have seen in the area of cybercrime investigations," Frazzini said.
Posted by: tipper || 01/12/2005 10:04:58 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Home Front: Economy
U.S. Dec budget posted surplus, Bush blamed
(Reuters) - The U.S. government ran a $1 billion budget surplus in December, helped by a rise in corporate tax payments, the Congressional Budget Office said in its latest budget report released on Friday.

The surplus, which compared with an $18 billion deficit in the previous December, helped create a smaller fiscal deficit for the first three months of the 2005 fiscal year, than in the same quarter of the prior year.

"In December, most corporations make their fourth quarterly payment of income taxes," the CBO said, adding that corporate tax refunds were lower than in the previous December.

Congress' nonpartisan fiscal watchdog said the 2005 shortfall now stands at $114 billion, about $16 billion less than for the same period last year. The 2005 fiscal year began on Oct. 1.

The Treasury Department is expected to release the final budget statement for December on Wednesday.

Treasury Secretary John Snow said earlier on Friday that he planned to work with Congress to bring down the deficit, which hit a record $412 billion last year.

Financial markets have been rattled by the huge budget and current account deficits and President George W. Bush has pledged to halve the deficit by 2009. But CBO numbers released earlier this year show that he is not on track to achieve this aim.

CBO is projecting that the deficit will narrow slightly to $348 billion in 2005. It will update its forecast for 2005 and 2006-2015 on January 25.
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/12/2005 2:28:55 PM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:


Home Front: Culture Wars
Maryland's 'Ballistics Fingerprint' System Doesn't Work
(CNSNews.com) - Maryland's "ballistics imaging" system isn't working and ought to be scrapped, says a report from the Maryland State Police. A Maryland law that took effect in 2000 requires gun makers to test-fire all new handguns sold in the state so that each gun's "ballistic fingerprint" may be entered into a state database. Each fired shell casing has unique markings that police -- theoretically -- can use to identify guns that were used in crimes.
But as gun control opponents have long noted, the unique markings that gun barrels leave on shell casings can be easily altered, either deliberately or through wear on the gun.
A little valve grinding compound on a brass brush will change it enough so the computer won't find a match
Second Amendment supporters say "ballistics imaging" systems amount to gun registration.
Well, that was the whole point of the exercise anyway
The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA) is congratulating Republican Gov. Robert Ehrlich's administration for releasing the findings of the Maryland State Police Forensic Sciences Division.
The report recommends that "this program be suspended, a repeal of the collection of cartridge cases from current law be enacted, and the Laboratory Technicians associated with the program be transferred to the DNA database unit."
CCRKBA says Maryland has spent $2.5 million over the past four years -- with nothing to show for it. "Guns found to be used in the commission of crime...are not the ones being entered into" the system, the state police report noted.
"By admission of the Maryland State Police, ballistics imaging doesn't work, and it appears to be a waste of money," said CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb in a press release. "The Citizen's Committee and other gun rights groups have been saying all along that ballistics imaging was a fraud as a crime-prevention tool, and now it's also being proven as an ineffective crime-solving tool."
Gottlieb said taxpayers in every state need to know about the Maryland report so they can resist the "gun control zealots" who are pushing similar "ballistics imaging" programs in other state legislatures. New York has a ballistics imaging program, which also should be scrapped, CCRKBA said, a move that would save taxpayers about $4-million a year. "Taxpayers expect to have their money wisely spent on genuine anti-crime measures, not on some boondoggle that amounts to gun registration by another name," Gottlieb concluded.
Posted by: Steve || 01/12/2005 11:43:31 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:


Home Front: Tech
We're Doing It For The Children
If you're ticketed by Green Bay police, you'll get more than a fine. You'll get fingerprinted, too. It's a new way police are cracking down on crime.
If you're caught speeding or playing your music too loud, or other crimes for which you might receive a citation, Green Bay police officers will ask for your drivers license and your finger. You'll be fingerprinted right there on the spot. The fingerprint appears right next to the amount of the fine.
Police say it's meant to protect you -- in case the person they're citing isn't who they claim to be. But not everyone is sold on that explanation.
"What we've seen happen for the last couple of years [is] increasing use of false or fraudulent identification documents," Captain Greg Urban said.
Police say they want to prevent the identity theft problem that Milwaukee has, where 13 percent of all violators give a false name.
But in Green Bay, where police say they only average about five cases in a year, drivers we talked with think the new policy is extreme.
"That's going too far," Ken Scherer from Oconto said. "You look at the ID, that's what they're there for. Either it's you or it's not. I don't think that's a valid excuse."
"I would feel uncomfortable but I would do it," Carol Pilgrim of Green Bay said.
Citizens do have the right to say no. "They could say no and not have to worry about getting arrested," defense attorney Jackson Main said. "On the other hand, I'm like everybody else. When a police officer tells me to do something, I'm going to do it whether I have the right to say no or not."
That's exactly why many drivers are uneasy about the fine print in this fingerprinting policy.
Police stress that the prints are just to make sure you are who you claim to be and do not go into any kind of database; they simply stay on the ticket for future reference if the identity is challenged.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 01/12/2005 10:17:16 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Didn't GA require fingerprints on the back of their DLs?

Why don't they just do that?

Although I hate it.
Posted by: anonymous2u || 01/12/2005 11:16 Comments || Top||


Why the USS San Francisco Ran Aground
January 12, 2005: The American nuclear submarine USS San Francisco hit an uncharted seamount on January 7th, killing one sailor and injuring 23 others. Facts about the incident were slow to emerge. It appears that the sub was traveling on a course it was ordered to follow, at a depth of 500 feet and a speed of about 56 kilometers an hour. This was the first time the navy had given the speed of a Los Angeles class sub as anything but "25+ knots" (45 kilometers an hour.) It has long been believed that these subs could make more than 55 kilometers an hour.
The visible damage to the sub indicated that the sonar dome at the front of the sub was partially collapsed, and, according to information released by the navy, some of the forward ballast tanks were damaged. The pressure hull was not compromised. The submarine immediately surfaced after the collision, which was apparently a glancing one. The crew had some trouble getting to the surface, because of the damaged forward ballast tanks (which hold water, that is rapidly pumped out, and replaced with air, to give the sub buoyancy and bring it to the surface.) The impact, of course, caught everyone unawares, which is why there were so many injuries. The sailor who died, had been thrown forward, hitting his head on a pipe. He died of that injury two days later.
The captain usually losses his command after accidents like this, although in this case, that might not happen. If the captain was following all procedures correctly, and there was no way the seamount could be detected, the incident might not destroy his career. There are many uncharted underwater features, especially 500 feet underwater. The technology does not yet exist to economically chart all of the ocean bottoms to that, and greater, depth. Most waters are charted sufficiently to protect surface ships. But there are only about two hundred subs that normally operate at the depth this accident took place. There may be a call for the navy to change its procedures, and have the sub use more active sonar devices when traveling in certain waters. But this will generate protests, because active sonar disturbs the fish. There are also technical issues regarding how effective such sonar would be in avoiding all types of underwater collisions. Moreover, in wartime, you avoid using sonar as a navigation aid, as it gives away your position. Actually, traveling at high speed gives away your position, because of the noise generated by the propulsion system and water rushing over the sub. In wartime, the sub might have been moving at 10-20 kilometers an hour, which would have caused less damage and fewer injuries.
If the Navy adheres to maritime tradition, that calls for the naming of previously unknown underwater features after the vessel that "discovered' them, even if by running into them, the uncharted seamount will now be known as the "San Francisco seamount".
Accidents like this are rare, but there will probably be a review of the charts, of underwater geography, that are used by American subs. This review process is standard whenever there is a major underwater earthquake or volcano eruption. For example, the December 26, 2004 earthquake off Aceh is known to have seriously rearranged the ocean bottom in that area, and efforts are already underway to update charts. But now an effort will be made to try and determine where there may be other potential "San Francisco seamounts".
Posted by: Steve || 01/12/2005 9:48:53 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  But this will generate protests, because active sonar disturbs the fish.

You have got to be shitting me.
But, of course, you're not...
Posted by: tu3031 || 01/12/2005 10:01 Comments || Top||

#2  Say what you want, but the sub hit the seamount at ahead flank and they were able to get her back to Guam. This says quite a bit for the design and construction of a 688. It also says a hell of alot about her crew.
Posted by: Penguin || 01/12/2005 10:24 Comments || Top||

#3  hitting anything at 30kts and being able to bring back the boat and all souls but 1, that is more a cause for commendation instead of a career ender (like I first assumed). If this was truly an unknown seamount, and the boat was under orders to mvoe the way it was , then there is no holding the skipper accountable as long as all the regs and procedures were properly followed.

This one goes in my book along with the shuttle disaster as "deaths caused by eco-fascists" (no using the active sonar for the sub, and that cheesy insulation that fell off the booster tank due to "environmentally friendly propellant" changes for the shuttle)
Posted by: OldSpook || 01/12/2005 10:53 Comments || Top||

#4  The decision to reveal the submarine's speed is indeed unprecedented, though very high underwater speeds have been reported for many years. Submarines designed after the late 1950s use the spindle-shaped "Albacore" hull form, which gives higher speed submerged than surfaced. It has consequently been relatively easy to conceal their actual speeds. Contrary to common assumptions, the real advantage of nuclear power is not endurance at sea (which is limited by factors other than fuel) but sustained underwater speed. In water, power requirements increase in proportion to the cube of the speed. 30 knots would require 64 times as much power as 7 1/2 knots, for example.
Some conventional submarines are capable of very high speeds as well, but only for very short bursts, typically an hour or less at full power before the batteries run flat. OTOH, they can run submerged for a week or more at lower speeds. The nuclear submarine, with its enormously higher energy density, can run at high speed for days or even weeks on end.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 01/12/2005 10:57 Comments || Top||

#5  Sailors versus fishes, employ the sonars, damn it!
Posted by: Captain America || 01/12/2005 11:16 Comments || Top||

#6  I don't think you can blame the eco-nuts for this--submariners don't want to use active sonar unless it's an emergency because it broadcasts their position way beyond its effective range. It's like shining a flashlight in the dark--you can only see the stuff immediately lit up in front of you, but EVERYONE now knows where you are.

I think rather than using active sonar they'll have to restrict depths and speed in areas that are not sufficiently charted and get some dedicated survey ships--like the USNS John McDonnell and USNS Mary Sears mentioned in previous posts--out there to update their navigational charts.

As I understand, active sonar on subs is only employed when under attack. The logic being that the enemy knows where you are already so you activate your sonar to locate him and any other boats out there. Additionally, you'll be twisting and turning at high speed to evade torps which will make your passive sonar useless.
Posted by: Dar || 01/12/2005 11:27 Comments || Top||

#7  Actually, what the protesters have been bitching about is their claim that active sonar negatively affects dolphins and whales.

Regarding underwater speed, the propeller can be turned faster at depth because the higher water pressure prevents cavitation on the back side of the prop.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste || 01/12/2005 14:13 Comments || Top||

#8  what do you expect when the hydrographic training vessels were used as party boats by the current leadership?
Posted by: G5 || 01/12/2005 14:48 Comments || Top||

#9  Explain please, G5.
Posted by: Seafarious || 01/12/2005 14:53 Comments || Top||

#10  I can say no more.
Posted by: G5 || 01/12/2005 14:54 Comments || Top||

#11  G5, *whose* training vessels were used as party boats? By *which* "current leadership?" Don't throw something out there you won't can't back up...
Posted by: Seafarious || 01/12/2005 14:59 Comments || Top||

#12  Are they Haliburton Command and Control Vessels now? Has it gone that far? This is what happens when you build the big pontoon boats.
Posted by: Shipman || 01/12/2005 16:17 Comments || Top||

#13  Good to see you visiting here, Mr. Den Beste.
Posted by: Brett_the_Quarkian || 01/12/2005 16:25 Comments || Top||

#14  It was just a snarky comment. Forget about it.
Posted by: G5 || 01/12/2005 16:58 Comments || Top||

#15  :) Done that G5.
Posted by: Shipman || 01/12/2005 18:34 Comments || Top||

#16  ... and get some dedicated survey ships--like the USNS John McDonnell and USNS Mary Sears mentioned in previous posts--out there to update their navigational charts.

In the area involved, probably. Maybe a bit larger area too - one doesn't want to draw too much attention to one's survey ships.

As a rule, surveying and re-surveying areas is time consuming and expensive. Not every place needs to be surveyed either. The areas affected by the tsunami that are high-traffic regions will be done. The rest will probably go decades, if not centuries, before a survey is done. I've used charts of regions in the South Pacific and Middle East that had the bulk of the hydrographic data compiled in 19th century (even some late 18th century) with occasional updates since then.
Posted by: Pappy || 01/12/2005 20:12 Comments || Top||

#17  It was just a snarky comment. Forget about it.

It was classified!!! ;)
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 01/12/2005 22:34 Comments || Top||

#18  hitting anything at 30kts and being able to bring back the boat and all souls but 1, that is more a cause for commendation instead of a career ender (like I first assumed). If this was truly an unknown seamount, and the boat was under orders to mvoe the way it was , then there is no holding the skipper accountable as long as all the regs and procedures were properly followed.

This one goes in my book along with the shuttle disaster as "deaths caused by eco-fascists" (no using the active sonar for the sub, and that cheesy insulation that fell off the booster tank due to "environmentally friendly propellant" changes for the shuttle)
Posted by: OldSpook || 01/12/2005 10:53 Comments || Top||

#19  hitting anything at 30kts and being able to bring back the boat and all souls but 1, that is more a cause for commendation instead of a career ender (like I first assumed). If this was truly an unknown seamount, and the boat was under orders to mvoe the way it was , then there is no holding the skipper accountable as long as all the regs and procedures were properly followed.

This one goes in my book along with the shuttle disaster as "deaths caused by eco-fascists" (no using the active sonar for the sub, and that cheesy insulation that fell off the booster tank due to "environmentally friendly propellant" changes for the shuttle)
Posted by: OldSpook || 01/12/2005 10:53 Comments || Top||


E-Mail Shows Toll of Crash on Submarine
The nuclear submarine that ran aground Saturday in the South Pacific hit so "incredibly hard" that about 60 of its 137 crew members were injured and the sailor who died was thrown 20 feet by the impact, according to internal Navy e-mail messages sent by a top admiral. The messages said the submarine's hull was severely damaged after the head-on crash into what Navy officials believe was an undersea mountain that was not on the navigation charts. One message said the submarine, the San Francisco, was traveling at high speed, and the impact practically stopped it in its tracks and caused flooding in parts of the bow.

The messages were written by Rear Adm. Paul F. Sullivan, the commander of submarines in the Pacific. They paint a more dire picture of the accident, which occurred 360 miles southeast of Guam, than had previously been disclosed. They also hint at the extensive efforts to steady the vessel and save the sailor who died. The e-mail indicated that the Navy had tried to evacuate the fatally injured man, Machinist Mate 2nd Class Joseph A. Ashley, within hours after he had been thrown forward and hit his head on a metal pump, which knocked him unconscious. Petty Officer Ashley's father, Daniel L. Ashley, said in an interview he had been told that as a helicopter hovered over the choppy seas, crew members could not maneuver a stretcher carrying his son through the submarine's hatches before he died. "They tried numerous times to maneuver him through various hatches," Mr. Ashley said. "But it just didn't happen."
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Posted by: Steve || 01/12/2005 9:34:47 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:



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