This will liven up the morning commute.
Women crossed their arms and rubbed their hands to keep warm in the main concourse of Grand Central Terminal early Sunday, but it wasnât because of the chilly October air. The women — all 450 of them — were nude. They were posing as part of a human art installation being photographed by New York-based artist Spencer Tunick. I did photos for a while in high school and college -- yearbooks, etc. I never thought of this one.
Tunick has arranged nude installations in cities around the world, including London, Lisbon, Buenos Aires and Santiago. Heâs been arrested several times in New York City for previous projects. "I wanted to bring the most beautiful people into the most beautiful building," Tunick said Sunday. He said he first sought permission to use the New York Public Library and the Museum of Natural History for the shoot but was rebuffed by both. [Groan]
Women — all volunteers — arrived at Grand Central at about 3 a.m. Sunday, stripped off their clothes and composed their bodies into sculptural shapes and formations meant to imitate streets, buildings and cityscapes. "Pardon me, whenâs the next train to Altoona? 3 am you say? Great!"
Tunick took photographs from a stairway in the concourse. He shouted instructions through a megaphone, telling the women to form triangles and square with their bodies on the floor. The station was closed off to the public between 2 a.m. and 5 a.m. The current installation is part of the artistâs "Naked World," in which he has been traveling the world, hoping to gather more than 35,000 people to pose in group installations. He uses both women and men in his photos, but said he chose to use only women in the Grand Central shoot because female nudity is more "easily digestible" than male nudity in the United States.
He's right. When I consume nudity, I find the female flavor much more digestible. Gents' nudity gives me gas...
A documentary about the "Naked World" project will air on HBOâs "America Undercover" series on Nov. 2.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/27/2003 2:29:09 AM ||
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And no photo of the photoshoot? Doh! Why, that's just downright, uh, um, er, typical! It's un-American! Yeah, that's what it is!
Ya gotta love these people, the models, that is. They fulfill some secret phantasy - with no harm done - and probably to the smirky delight of people like me the Newsday reporter. The artiste, on the other hand is a lucky sumbitch mercenary loonie. [/sour grapes]
#9
"I wanted to bring the most beautiful people into the most beautiful building"
Grand Central Station for anyone who hasn't seen it in the last 5 years has been totally renovated and cleaned up--thank God for Jackie O who organized NY'ers to oppose tearing down this landmark in the 60's! Otherwise we'd have another eyesore like Penn Station
U.S. and Afghan troops patrolling the rugged border with Pakistan came under fire from alleged fugitive Taliban, and killed 22 in airstrikes called in to repel the attack. However, Gen. Atiqullah Luddin, a regional military commander based in nearby Logar province, said his men were involved in the Sunday patrol and that 10 Taliban had been killed and two arrested, and that no airstrikes were involved.
Are they talking about the same firefight? I always tended to notice airstrikes...
Both officials said two Afghan soldiers were injured in the fighting. Mohammed Ali Jalali, governor of Paktika province, said the Americans and Afghans were in Barmal district, just a couple of kilometers from the Pakistan border, when they were attacked by rocket-propelled grenades, heavy machine guns and Kalashnikov rifles. The troops called in airstrikes, he said, and a wave of heavy bombardment hit the unpopulated area near the village of Shkin, 220 kilometers south of Kabul. Taliban and al-Qaida rebels have been launching increasingly bold assaults in recent months, raiding police stations, killing aid workers and confronting U.S. troops in growing numbers.
I had stayed out of this story because I didnât think the implication of the story—that Afghanistan had allowed a beauty contest. A burkha sewing contest, maybe, but girls in bikini certainly not.
Contrary to claims made by Ms. Vida Samadzai, 25, Afghan beauty contestant at the Miss Earth competition in Manila, Philippines, the Afghan Embassy in Washington D.C. did not recommend her participation. Some of our women are babes? We canât allow that to become public knowledge! Those filthy American soldiers might get ideas.
During an interview with international media in Manila, Ms. Samadzai made false claims against the Afghan Embassy in Washington D.C. by proclaiming to officially represent Afghanistan in the contest. Afghanistan will be officially represented in the goat milking contest though.
Ms. Samadzaiâs participation in the beauty competition is a personal and private decision and does not reflect the position of the Afghan Government` said embassy spokesman. The position of the Afghan Government remains squarely centered in the seventh century.
Posted by: Sorge ||
10/27/2003 7:27:43 AM ||
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I seriously doubt a form in a burkha would get much consideration with the judges. On the other hand, Ms. Samazdai sure did something for me.
#2
I wrote: "I had stayed out of this story because I didn't think the implication of the story...."
I should have written "believe" where I wrote "think" (careless editing on my part.) Dumb error, my bad.
#3
Well, who you gonna believe, the Afghan Embassy or your own eyes? :-)
Posted by: Matt ||
10/27/2003 14:28 Comments ||
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This is still the girl that got me interested in Afghanistan. There something about her eyes that was haunting when she was young. It's still there in teh older woman if you look carefully.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 15:45 Comments ||
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I'm not sure that I want to see this bunch of Afghan girls.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 15:46 Comments ||
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The ousted are ousted. She is considered a symptom of HIV/AIDS under pretence of so called democracy from the mother of democracy. Go ahead you men of 20 centuries give a chance to your sisters and mothers they might be the first rather than a so called afghan girl from a poor country.
From World Tribune.com...
Britain has warned of imminent Islamic insurgency attacks against Westerners in Saudi Arabia. Al Q must be doing the big push in SA to maintain credibility.
British officials said the warning came after new evidence was relayed by Riyadh based on the interrogation of captured Al Qaida suspects. They said the interrogations confirmed that Al Qaida has smuggled anti-aircraft missiles into the kingdom in plans to strike incoming Western airliners.
"We advise British nationals against all but essential travel to Saudi Arabia," a warning by the British Foreign Office said. "We believe that terrorists may be in the final phases of planning attacks." The British warning was the first that raised the prospect of an imminent attack in the Saudi kingdom. The United States has also posted warnings to its nationals, but did not relay an immediate threat. Officials said Britain has received information that Al Qaida has completed plans for a series of attacks on Westerners. They said the targets would probably target some of the 30,000 British nationals in Saudi Arabia, including employees of defense contractors. U.S. officials did not confirm the prospect of an imminent attack. But they said Washington has received warnings of the prospect of Al Qaida strikes during the Islamic fast month of Ramadan, which begins this week. To celebrate the Religion of Peaceâ¢
I guess they are going to try for a "Tet offensive." The Dems are already gibbering about it...
"The [U.S.] embassy continues to receive information that terrorist groups within the kingdom are still active and planning future operations," the U.S. embassy in Riyadh said in a statement. "It is the embassyâs assessment that terrorist groups may place special operational significance on the upcoming month of Ramadan." For its part, Saudi Arabia has not acknowledged such plans by Al Qaida.
"Go ahead. Surprise us."
Saudi officials said the British warning was not coordinated with the Arabian kingdom. "The kingdom wishes that when such advice is given by sources outside the kingdom that there would be coordination between the people giving the advice and the authorities in the kingdom," a statement by Saudi ambassador to Britain, Prince Turki Al Faisal, said. Over the last two weeks, Saudi security forces raided several Al Qaida strongholds and found explosive belts used by suicide bombers. The increased Al Q activities in Saudi, coupled with Booming in Baghdad, shows how high the stakes are for the Islamists (and US, too). Iraq is the Guadalcanal of the WoT. The Islamists cannot afford to let Iraq go on its new direction as a secular republic. We cannot afford to have it not succeed. The Islamists will have to shoot their wad to achieve their goals, like the Kamikaze attacks in WW2. We have to hold on and make sure that they severely attrit for their effort. Saudi will either change or go down. Either way, terrorist financing will feel the pressure and will suffer. We will win this thing if we have the will.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/27/2003 2:15:35 PM ||
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I give odds that there will be no attacks on aircraft from Saudi soil. The princes who fun this Jihadi crap will not allow it. SA is still a bottomless pit of terrorist funding.
The Omani authorities warned Monday that non-Muslims who violate Ramadan, Islamâs holy month of fasting and alms-giving, would be punished. The ministry of religious affairs also urged non-Muslim women to wear "loose, non-transparent clothes covering the entire body," said a statement issued to mark the onset of Ramadan. Non-Muslims were asked not to eat, drink or smoke in public during the fasting hours - from dawn to dusk. The punishment for offenders was not detailed. I wonder what the punishment will be? Ah, the âholyâ month of Ramadan, such a warm and loving holiday, what with religious police and all
Posted by: TS ||
10/27/2003 9:47:11 AM ||
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TU -- That question was answered in Baghdad today.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/27/2003 10:10 Comments ||
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TU, there is a problem only if they intend to light the fuses from a cigarette. In that case they must light the fuse in a bathroom stall and run very quickly to the target. Fuse length is critical during Ramadan.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 10:11 Comments ||
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.com, I loved your Ramadan stories. I got the smoking in the boy's room from Healing Iraq.
I liked this excerpt from the story: We Want Our Rights:
Anyway, back to my driver. He was describing the fight to me; The gang were in a black BMW (very fashionable among gangs these days). 4 of them. The police patrol ordered them to stop by loud speakers. The gang tried to flee, and opened fire from their kalashnikovs on the two car police patrol. A policeman was injured. The patrol returned heavy fire and hit one of their tires. After a small chase the gang stopped and surrendered. My driver told me that while they were approaching the criminals, they blurted "Don't touch us", "We want our rights!", "Promise you won't hurt us!". Of course that was too much to ask. They had just shot and killed a police officer. I told my driver that I hope they beat the shit out of them. He relieved me by answering yes.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 11:28 Comments ||
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Can they still blow shit up?
As long as it's after the sun goes down, yes.
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/27/2003 12:23 Comments ||
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Can you EVEN imagine if Italy required foreigners to adhere to Good Friday protocol?!
A professor who rejected a studentâs application because he had been in the Israeli army has been suspended by Oxford University. Professor Andrew Wilkie, Nuffield professor of pathology, emailed the student saying he would not enroll "someone who had served in the Israeli army". "They tend to support the right of Jews to live."
A university spokesman said: "This ruling reflects that there can be no place for any form of discrimination within the University of Oxford." Professor Wilkie has been suspended from his academic duties, without pay, for two months and will have to undergo equal opportunities training. The student, Amit Duvshani, a masters student at Tel Aviv University, had applied to work for a PhD under Professor Wilkie. He says he was rejected in an e-mail from the professor which outlined his objections to Israelâs treatment of Palestinians. Rejecting him that way was uncalled-for to 25
The spokesman from the university said: "Professor Wilkie fully accepts the gravity of the situation and is determined to make full use of training to ensure that his actions and those of his staff reflect best practice in future. He particularly wishes to make it clear that he greatly values the diverse backgrounds of the staff and students with whom he works and looks forward to applications from able candidates, whatever their background." Unless theyâre Jewish.
#4
I seriously doubt that this "training" is going to do anything useful.
It's humiliating, and it's a warning to other bigots in academia. Especially as this is an Oxbridge Prof, it's a good shot across the bows. I would have hoped for something more punitive, but at least the University authorities didn't try to sweep the issue under the carpet.
#5
Bulldog, this only works for me if you're the one doing the training.
Posted by: Matt ||
10/27/2003 18:32 Comments ||
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Sorry I lost control, Bulldog. My older brother and I went to the Naval Acedemy, but our younger siblings went to extremely liberal institutions of radicalism. I felt very uncomfortable visiting them.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 19:21 Comments ||
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What a coincidence.
I have a student who served in the Soviet Army in the 1980s. We are happy to have him, but not half so happy as he is to be here.
#8
SH - one day, perhaps all too soon, they'll have the 'pleasure' of hot lead heading in their direction. It's amazing how that has a way of changing one's perspective. We had a really rabid liberal nut case with us at Khe Sahn. The day they dragged all us 'non-combattants' (intel types - we're not supposed to be "in harm's way") out to defend the perimeter and this turkey took the first few shots aimed in his direction, he became a card-carrying conservative!
9/11 was a wake-up call. There will be more incidents - it's absolutely guaranteed, what with our liberal campuses, our disdainful government employees, and our open borders. I just pray that all of us continue to survive the 'close calls', and never have to face anything stronger.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/27/2003 21:54 Comments ||
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OP--"liberal campuses" =an open invitation to terrorism? That's a stretch! And the open borders have been "controlled" by the Bushies for over 2 years--I see them doing nothing to stop the influx from Mexico (not that Clinton or GHWB did either) Their paymasters want/need the cheap labor! Scary thought--some Arabs can pass for Mexicans--wait till THEY get here to carry off the next 9/11 because someone was sleeping on the job in Arizona
#10
And the open borders have been "controlled" by the Bushies for over 2 years--I see them doing nothing to stop the influx from Mexico (not that Clinton or GHWB did either) Their paymasters want/need the cheap labor! Scary thought--some Arabs can pass for Mexicans--wait till THEY get here to carry off the next 9/11 because someone was sleeping on the job in Arizona
-Holy sh*t, write this down in the history books! I agree w/NMM on something for once. Right on about the border NMM.
A French national deported from Australia earlier this month may have links to al-Qaeda, Attorney-General Philip Ruddock said today. Australian authorities are continuing their investigations into Willie Virgile Brigitte, 35, who arrived in Australia in May this year on a tourist visa. They believe he may have been in Sydney planning terror-related activities. Mr Ruddock told ABC radio that reports from France had prompted police raids on cars and property in Sydney associated with Brigitte. "The information was in the report that he had been with groups that were training with al-Qaeda and had spent some months in training camps and that he had been in Australia. He was asked, the report says, to give shelter to an expert in explosives." He said police were not seeking any associates of Brigitteâs in Australia at the moment. Australian authorities were first alerted to Brigitte on September 22, when French authorities warned that he was thought to have trained with terror groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan. On October 7, while Australian authorities were still looking for him, the French warned that he may have been in Australia to plan terror-related activities. He was arrested for breaching his visa on October 9, and sent back to France eight days later, where he is facing terror-related charges.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
10/27/2003 2:23:13 AM ||
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More details on our friend Willie: Brigitte, who French officials say spent months in al-Qaida training camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan, was captured Oct. 9 in Sydney after France warned Australia of his suspected al-Qaida ties. He was returned to France under guard on Oct. 17 and placed under investigation afterward. Under questioning, Brigitte acknowledged he had traveled to Afghanistan to fight alongside the Taliban against U.S. forces after the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks, French officials said. Carr said contacts Brigitte had made and training he had received in Pakistan and Afghanistan "confirmed that he learned about explosives." Brigitte organized survival training lessons in Fontainebleau forest outside Paris before the Sept. 11 attacks, a French judicial official said. It was unclear who was participating in the training. He is also also suspected of running false passports to the assassins of former anti-Taliban rebel leader in Afghanistan, Ahmed Shah Massood, who was slain just days before the al-Qaida attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, the French official said on condition of anonymity. Brigitte is originally from the French Caribbean island of Guadeloupe and had taken the Muslim name Abdelrahman, Australian media reported Monday.
If the French don't want him, I bet the Afghan government would like to talk to him about Massood's killing.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 15:12 Comments ||
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From the Department of Reading Between The Lines:
Army helicopters involved in an incident in Italy more than 14 months ago were flying too low and failed to obey requirements for navigating across the country, U.S. Army Europe officials announced Friday. USAREUR officials acknowledge a report into the incident â which took place Aug. 14, 2002, in the coastal city of Barletta â was completed more than eight months ago. But it wonât be released until potential civil action by Italian authorities is resolved. So, what happened?
The helicopters, heading from their base in Germany, were on their way to a deployment in the Balkans. The crews spent the night of Aug. 13 at Aviano Air Base before continuing their journey south. While flying over a beach in Barletta, the helicoptersâ rotor blades stirred up sand and sent beach furniture flying. Six Italians were reportedly treated at a local hospital for minor injuries. The helicopters continued on their journey, later arriving at Camp Able Sentry in Macedonia. Crichton said the investigation, headed by an Army lieutenant colonel and an Italian counterpart, took 3Âœ months to complete. And how much of that time was spent examining the beach?
After internal reviews, SETAF forwarded the report along in February. âOur goal was to determine a clear understanding of the facts and a shared common picture of what happened,â Crichton said. âThat took time to determine.â Took me about 30 seconds.
As part of the investigation, a re-creation of the incident was staged at one of the Armyâs training areas in Germany. Oh, Iâd wager that they didnât include the primary cause of these chopper pilots flying low over that Italian beach in their little re-creation. Whatâs your guess?
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 2:32:13 PM ||
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Posted by: tu3031 ||
10/27/2003 10:19:46 AM ||
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What would make anyone think the elimination of Jock Sherock as a political force in France would be a good thing? The same monkeys that elected him would elect the next guy, right? This is the land of Robespierre, DeGaulle, and Pepe LePew, after all.
Posted by: John ||
10/27/2003 10:34 Comments ||
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Too bad they did not give Mssr. Sarkozy a stab at the elder care problem during last summer's heat wave. A lot of them might have lived.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/27/2003 10:56 Comments ||
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"Until the debacle of the Corsican referendum this summer, ...Mr Sarkozy could do no wrong, but even this failure was quickly forgotten"......
At least that is, until this article was written to remind us about it.
So I guess the point of the article is this: Oh sure, he may seem like a nice guy, but don't be decieved. Despite Mr Sarkozy's apparent success and popularity, we, the editors of this piece, would like you to be left with the impression that Mr Sarkozy is a hyperactive, relentlessly ambitious, back-stabbing, child molesting, kind of guy.
Posted by: B ||
10/27/2003 11:15 Comments ||
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Anybody have more background on the guy? He sounds like he would be an effective leader.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 11:35 Comments ||
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Sarkozy instituted the French Council of the Muslim Faith, hoping to give Islam an institutional voice in France. Sort of backfired when the regional councils turned out to be populated by extremists.
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/27/2003 15:05 Comments ||
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Does anyone here relaize that Chirac is right wing, speaks English and actually likes America?
EFL, thisâll play real well in Italy:
A Muslim rights advocate has scored a victory over the Catholic Church and conservative Italians, winning a court ruling that will remove crucifixes from the state primary school his children attend. A concordat with the Vatican confirmed in 1984 that Catholicism was no longer the state religion. And laws introduced in 1920s fascist Italy, making crucifixes mandatory in classrooms, have been interpreted loosely since then, though not revoked. The cross is still a permanent fixture in many government offices and hospitals. The judge argued that the 1920s norms were out of date and that the crucifix culture in schools showed that the state had "not the slightest respect" for the role of other religions. Unlike those open and tolerant muslim states.
The court case was brought by Adel Smith of the Union of the Muslims of Italy. Of a Scots family, Mr Smith converted to Islam in 1987. Converts are always the most zealous.
In public, he termed the crucifix a "small body on two wooden sticks". He wanted Koran prayers displayed at his childrenâs school and lobbied to have an "offensive" 15th century Giovanni di Modena fresco removed from Bologna cathedral and Danteâs Divine Comedy deleted from the school syllabus. He said both showed the prophet Mohammed cast into hell. So heâs for the separation of church and state, but mosque and state are different, of course.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 10:19:50 AM ||
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We got Pledge of Allegiance guy and the Italians got this guy. There's always one in every neighborhood.
Posted by: John ||
10/27/2003 10:36 Comments ||
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lobbied to have an "offensive" 15th century Giovanni di Modena fresco removed from Bologna cathedral and Danteâs Divine Comedy deleted from the school syllabus.
I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for someone on the left to call this guy a censor.
He said both showed the prophet Mohammed cast into hell.
Which, quite honestly, is where a Catholic would expect to see Mohammed. But freedom of belief is just not something Muslims get, is it?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/27/2003 10:45 Comments ||
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He wanted Koran prayers displayed at his childrenâs school and lobbied to have an "offensive" 15th century Giovanni di Modena fresco removed from Bologna cathedral and Danteâs Divine Comedy deleted from the school syllabus.
Well this is interesting, to say the least. Suing to have one kind of religious symbolism removed only to have his own brand installed.
#6
My church will take the offending fresco, if the Italians will deliver it.
What's up with this?
"The judge argued that the 1920s norms were out of date and that the crucifix culture in schools showed that the state had "not the slightest respect" for the role of other religions. "
Is somebody from the Ninth Circuit vacationing in Roma?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 11:22 Comments ||
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When are people going to realise that they are having their roots "Pulled out".
What better way than to demoralise a population before going for the "jugular"?
Posted by: Barry ||
10/27/2003 11:41 Comments ||
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Suing to have one kind of religious symbolism removed only to have his own brand installed.
You're not seeing the positive side of this. In other regions of the world it's done through the barrel of an AK47 (and explosives if they're in a hurry).
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/27/2003 12:28 Comments ||
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"Suing to have one kind of religious symbolism removed only to have his own brand installed."
Actually, AFAIK, he asked for *either* the former or the latter. Either remove *all* religious symbolism, or include both Christian and Muslim items.
#10
Actually, AFAIK, he asked for *either* the former or the latter. Either remove *all* religious symbolism, or include both Christian and Muslim items.
I don't know where you're reading that, but the Guardian article pointed to by the original link gives no such details.
#11
Bomb-a-rama> I first read the story here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3215445.stm
"The president of a Muslim group, Adel Smith, initially suggested that a symbol from the Koran should be displayed alongside the crucifix in his children's classrooms. When this was denied, he took his complaint to the courts."
#16
Jarhead---twice in one day!? The icing on the cake is having a religious painting removed from a cathedral-->?! Now the Islamonutz have art approval in a Catholic Church? Over MY DEAD BODY
Opinion (Fred, delete if you would like. I found it heartening)
EFL from Townhall - whole article is worth the read.
And, 14 years ago, Germans destroyed the ultimate symbol of political slavery and oppression: the Berlin Wall. Its memories are preserved at the Mauer Museum, also known as the Haus Am Checkpoint Charlie, located near the old border crossing between East and West. It is a must-visit for anyone who doubts the durability of the human spirit.
Administered and defended by the two contending alliances, Berlin was the one spot on the continent where communist subjects could walk to freedom. And they did, by the thousands.
The best and the brightest, the young and the ambitious, simply walked away from the East German state, the so-called German Democratic Republic. The endless flow of refugees also embarrassed the Soviet Union: Why were people fleeing the communist paradise?
There also are accounts of those who failed. All told, 5,075 people are known to have escaped despite the Wall. But 176 died in the attempt; nearly 800 more were killed attempting to flee across the fortified border elsewhere into West Germany.
Some of the photo images will live forever. On Aug. 15, 1961, we see Conrad Schumann, the first border guard to escape, gracefully leaping over a tangled roll of barbed wire. On Aug.17, 1962, 18-year-old Peter Fechter bled to death after being shot down before he could reach sanctuary in the West.
This symbol of brutality and violence continued to divide Europe into the 1980s. Attempts at Republikflucht, or Republic Flight - a crime in East Germany - often ending in arrest, imprisonment, and even death, persisted up into 1989. On Feb. 5, 1989, 20-year-old Chris Gueffroy was shot attempting to escape into West Berlin, the last East German murdered while seeking freedom.
Soon demonstrations spiraled out of control in Leipzig, pushing the East German government toward oblivion. The authorities announced that they were relaxing border controls. On Nov. 9, 1989, when thousands of East Germans begin massing on the borders, the guards opened the gates.
The Wall had fallen. People danced on it and chipped pieces from it. It soon was torn down and the two Germanies prepared to reunify.
Checkpoint Charlie was formally demolished the following year. Now all that remains are the memories - and the MauerMuseum.
Of course, the struggle for human liberty did not end with the Berlin Wall. There remain the grotesque tyranny of Kim JongIl in North Korea, the oppressive rule of the Mullahs in Iran, a bevy of African and South Asian dictatorships and more.
But to visit the Mauer Museum is to develop hope anew in the prospect for freedom. Humans have not suddenly become good, neither has evil disappeared from the world. Nevertheless, most humans crave freedom. And the good guys sometimes win.
Is TGA involved with this museum? I understand that he is active in projects of this type.
I think the East Germans would find many kindred spirits in Iraq.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 7:50:10 AM ||
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During the whole pre-war France/Germany debacle, we heard all about the US saving France's ass in WWII. But we never heard a peep about the US role in bringing down the wall - you know, Cold War victory over communism, Reagan's "tear down this wall", all that. Musta been Canada that defeated the evil empire.
#2
The Wall would have fallen with or without the Liar there the German people knew they would be re-united and for the time being pretend to dance to the French tune till they recover
EFL
The secretary general of Spainâs governing Popular Party, Mariano Rajoy, says the Basque plan for autonomy is a betrayal of the state that will cause the destruction of the constitution. The Basque regional government on Saturday officially approved the plan, which proposes more independence from Spain. Spainâs political divisions are becoming more apparent as the national government prepares an official response to the plan. Drawn up by the Basque leader, Juan Jose Ibarretxe, the text of the proposed political statutes for the Basque country calls for a referendum to decide whether the region should become a sovereign state. The issue is causing considerable tension across Spain, especially in the Basque regional parliament. After an ugly slanging match, a Popular Party deputy was expelled from the house for calling opposition members the heirs of ETA, the armed Basque separatist group. The Popular Party executive is meeting this week to look at how to oppose the plan by all means possible. Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar says the Basque governmentâs proposal for greater autonomy legitimises the terrorism of ETA and has no chance of succeeding. But supporters of the plan claim it could end ETA violence and Juan Jose Ibarretxe denies he wants full independence from Spain. The next critical phase starts on 4 November with the Basque parliament expected to debate and then approve the proposal, preparing the way for a referendum. Under the EU format, wouldnât it be adventageous to "spin off" all your ethnic areas to gain more votes?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 7:21:11 AM ||
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The first al-Qaeda member convicted over the September 11 attacks could be freed from jail in Germany after intelligence chiefs called into doubt the role of his Hamburg cell in planning them. The possible release of Mounir El Motassadeq, a Moroccan jailed for 15 years for his support of the cell, emerged after the head of Germanyâs security agency said the attacks were planned in Afghanistan not Hamburg.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
10/27/2003 5:17:05 AM ||
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Ah, so if I understand correctly, he may be freed because the Germans now believe there was an AlQ 9/11 attack planning meeting that took place in Afghanistan. Of course, once that took place, there would no further planning or coordination or safehousing or funds disbursement or detail clarification / modification. Not a peep. Their lips were sealed. Hmmm... Perhaps, had the 9/11 perps been German, I might partially buy into this just because they are so legendary for their efficiency. But fucking Arabs?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Something is wrong here. Either the story is bogus or the Germans are trying to pretend it didn't happen or the head of the French German security agency is a politician who's for sale or...
#2
...or what d'you expect. This is Europe. Home of the 12 strikes and you're out (maybe) program.
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/27/2003 12:31 Comments ||
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#3
Either the story is bogus or the Germans are trying to pretend it didn't happen or the head of the German security agency is a politician who's for sale or...
Or maybe the Germans are getting into the terror sponsorship business. Why are they suddenly so interested in getting their hands of British nukes?
#4
The first al-Qaeda member convicted over the September 11 attacks could be freed from jail in Germany after intelligence chiefs called into doubt the role of his Hamburg cell in planning them.
Heinz Fromm: Your particular Hamburg Al-Qaida cell wasn't the one who helped plan the World Trade Center attack?
I returned from Washington, D.C. late Saturday night after a whirlwind trip in which I drove 800 miles within a twenty-four hour period. I joined other patriots in our nationâs capitol as it came under renewed assault from the anti-American, communist-backed group known as A.N.S.W.E.R. Now why on earth would I drive so far, leaving the comforts of my home, simply to be verbally assaulted by a group of left-wing wackos? The answer is simple; I made this trip to show my support for our president, our troops, and our country. This is Jon Alvarez, a Renew America columnist.
I also made this trip to show the nation and the world that these leftist protesters do not speak for me. I could not in good conscience sit by and allow for them to march unopposed, spewing their venomous hatred not only for President Bush, but also for our country. They do not represent mainstream America, despite the attempts of the mainstream media to lead us to believe otherwise. What the media fails to report is that the primary backer of the anti-war rallies has been the group A.N.S.W.E.R., a conglomerate of communist organizations. I was saddened to see some young children and teens marching with these people, unaware of what they stand for. The majority of the professionally made signs held by the anti-war protesters were stamped "International Socialist Organization". Enough said. In the Bay Area where I live ANSWER doesnât even try to hide the fact that they are largely a front for various communist, anti-semetic groups. The Berkeley Commune, anyone?
What else did the media fail to report? They did not report that this anti-war protest was deemed a huge failure. A.N.S.W.E.R. had estimated their numbers to be approximately 100,000, yet I can attest that they had no more than 10,000 people in attendance. Furthermore, I have heard reports that their event in San Francisco attracted only several hundred supporters. This is very good news in that it shows that their movement is losing supporters as their anti-American agenda becomes more visible. Good.
The mediasâ cameras also failed to capture the message of hatred for all things American. U.S. flags were desecrated with swastikas while our flags received the one-finger salute. Displays of anti-capitalism, sexism, racism, and anti-semiticism were not reported. Eggs were thrown at police officers. Now why on earth would "peace" protesters be carrying eggs? The terrorists of the world were watching these protests, taking great joy in the support they are receiving from their new allies on the left. The actions of these people could have a negative impact on the morale of our soldiers as well. Thatâs why itâs imperative that the media reports on the patriotic presence as well. Typical. In California this sort of behavior will get you elected to office.... isnât that right Senator Feinstien? The trick is to make a buck off of the war while you oppose it.... say, for example, by having a husband that owns 20% of Bechtel. Again, I give you Senator Feinstien.
It was at our second rallying point, along the parade route of A.N.S.W.E.R., that we came face to face with these people. Despite the eggs, despite the horrible signs painting our president as everything from a new Adolf Hitler to an evil capitalist criminal, I couldnât help but feel sorry for some of the participants. They fail to realize that they are on the wrong side of history. Surely they were unaware that they were marching with a vile, anti-American communist group? We, too, want the troops to come home. We donât want war, but we cannot allow terrorism to survive. To show weakness, to pull our troops from Iraq at this time, would only spell disaster for America.
I think several of these people were uncomfortable with the viciousness of the protesters as they came around the corner and saw our patriotic signs and show of support for our country. Like rabid dogs, they screamed, spit, ranted, and raved. They had better get used to it because screaming, raving, and ranting are the main attractions underneath The Big Tent!
These are the ones driven by anger and hatred. These are the same people that spit on our returning soldiers from Vietnam, who called them "baby killers". They are the social misfits, the dirty and the disheveled that relish social upheaval. They are the strong supporters of groups like A.N.S.W.E.R. and it was good that we have exposed them for what they represent. They didnât disappear after the anti-war protests of the past spring, only to reappear now. No, they had merely channeled their energy into working for the Howard Dean campaign.
No bias in the media? The D.C. Chapter of Free Republic, the organizers of the event, notified C-Span well in advance of the dayâs events, only to be told that they would only cover the A.N.S.W.E.R. rally. It must have been deemed that several hundred Americans, proclaiming support for their country, was not newsworthy. Furthermore, despite the abundance of reporters and camera crews that interviewed us during and after our engagement with A.N.S.W.E.R. along their march route, there was little if any reporting of our presence and viewpoint. Even my local news outlets, notified of my intentions weeks ago, seemed to have no interest yet carried the network headlines about "huge anti-war protests". So much for presenting both sides of the issue.
So, Al Goreâs "right wing media" point-blank told the counter-protesters that they werenât interested. How could THAT be?
#3
Finesteen cannot attend these rallies because we Californian have had enough with that crowd. Next year is going to be a very sad year for the Anti-American crowd (Demoncrats). Finesteen is trying to play the other side now that she has seen what will happen when she crosses the voters. She actually ENDORSED the Patriot Act! No if that aint pandering to the right I don't know what is. Wave goodbye Dianne. bye bye!
#4
Great post. Does it really matter that the main stream press doesn't report these things? Did the main stream press prevent us from winning in Iraq? Did the main stream press prevent Arnie from being re-elected?
Think about this....more people will discover, on-line, about ANSWER's real nature than will be swayed by it's omission in the mainstream press. And the best part is, when they realize the mainstream press failed to report it, its crediblity sinks even further.
These hate groups now have only a little bit more sway than the KKK did in 1970; a few bitter losers still showed up to grind their axes, but most people, even those still harboring mild prejudice, had no desire to be associated with the vile venom.
Posted by: B ||
10/27/2003 16:39 Comments ||
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#7
The indomitable will of the people, as expressed by those in the vanguard of the revolutionary struggle, will prevail over the Criminal Reactionary Bush and his Imperialist henchmen.
Posted by: The Commissar ||
10/27/2003 17:06 Comments ||
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#8
Yup, Mr Alvarez any group opposing the Bushies is a Communist Front--OK! And the Freepers are a bunch of crazed Fascists so we're even
#9
NMM Don't take anybodies word for it, just visit the 'Not In Our Name' and A.N.S.W.E.R websites. There are commie/socialists they just don't advertise.
#10
CS & JH--I don't agree with them--but you are dead wrong to say all Democrats are Communists and against success in Iraq--I don't agree with HOW we got into this war but agree with many of you that failure is not an option in Iraq -- we've disagreed but that's the nature of Rantburg
Soon after triggering explosions in and outside the bogies of Delhi-bound Shalimar Express on Sunday night, terrorists carried out a series of attacks in their bid to escape and cross over the border to Pakistan. The terrorists, suspected to be Lashkar-e-Taiba members, killed five persons, including three soldiers, and injured 11 others. Among the injured were an army Major and an NDTV cameraman. However, security forces gunned down two of the three militants in an encounter, which is still on in the border town of Akhnoor about 25-30 kms from here. After the explosions, the militants trekked one-and-a-half kilometres and stopped an Indica car at Gagwal on Jammu-Pathankote highway and fired indiscriminately on the occupants, killing two persons and injuring four others. The terrorists, wearing combat dresses, pushed out the occupants from the vehicle and forced the injured driver, Vikas Singh, to drive them towards Jammu, he said. rampage continued, read at site
Pakistan on Monday questioned three suspected al-Qaida operatives captured over the weekend, but the interior minister said a top fugitive financier for the terror network was not among them. Damm
Police have been searching for Ahmad Said al-Kadr, an Egyptian-born Canadian citizen, since he escaped a major military operation on Oct. 2 in the South Waziristan tribal region near the border with Afghanistan. On Saturday, police raided a home in Faisalabad, an industrial city in the eastern province of Punjab, and said they captured a suspect believed to be a senior al-Qaida leader, prompting speculation he might be the fugitive financier. Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayyat confirmed Monday that intelligence services have three suspected al-Qaida members- all from Yemen - caught in Faisalabad, "but none of them is an important al-Qaida leader." Just your run-of-the-mill Yemeni thugs.
The raid in Faisalabad on Saturday was based on information from two men from Yemen arrested earlier in the week, intelligence officials said. One, identified earlier as Abu Saleh, was believed to have been an aide of Abu Zubaydah, a senior bin Laden lieutenant who was arrested in Faisalabad in March 2002. The interior minister said he could not confirm the identity of any of the suspects. Several Pakistanis also were taken into custody for suspected al-Qaida links, he said. Trained al-Qaida operatives are adept at concealing their true names under interrogation, Hayyat said. "It will take some time to confirm their identify." Iâll bet he was twirling his moustache when he said that.
Two intelligence officials said the captives were were giving "valuable information." One body part at a time.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 11:43:02 AM ||
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EFL; just the update.
Suicide bombers struck the Red Cross headquarters and three police stations across Baghdad on Monday, killing about 40 people and injuring more than 200 in a coordinated terror spree that stunned the Iraqi capital on the first day of the Islamic holy month of fasting, Ramadan. One American soldier was killed in one of the police station attacks and six U.S. troops were wounded, the military said. Ibrahim put the Iraqi death toll at 34, including 26 civilians and eight police but not the attackers. ``We feel helpless when see this,ââ a distraught Iraqi doctor said at the devastated Red Cross offices. The Red Cross said 12 Iraqis were killed at its office, including two employees. Baghdadâs al Bayaa police station in the al-Doura neighborhood saw the most deaths, reportedly 15 including the American.``Of course we donât understand why somebody would attack the Red Cross,ââ Red Cross spokeswoman Nada Doumani said. ``The Red Cross has operated in this country since 1980, and we have not been involved in politics.ââ
In Geneva, Red Cross spokesman Florian Westphal said the ICRC had disclosed in August that it had received warnings of a threat and had been reducing its staff since a Sri Lankan staffer was killed July 22 south of Baghdad. ``Itâs a big shock,ââ Westphal said. ``It is obviously impossible to move onto a normal dayâs business, so we really have to step back and take stock.ââ Two buildings away, the explosion devastated the interior of the Al-Nawal private polyclinic operated by Dr. Jamal F. Massa, 53, who had been planning to open it as a full-fledged hospital next month. ``We feel helpless when we see this,ââ he said. He said he couldnât understand why the Red Cross was targeted. ``This only hurts guards and other Iraqis.ââ
Mouwafak al-Rabii, a Shiite Muslim member of the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council, said the United States must speed up the training of Iraqi police and soldiers and employ ruthless measures to crush the insurgency. ``There is no doubt about it that we need to change the rules of engagement with these people,ââ al-Rabii told CNN. ``The rules of engagement now are too lenient.ââ Seems to me that ordinary Iraqis want the "resistance" crushed.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/27/2003 2:12:30 PM ||
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A U.S. general says the one attacker captured alive in the suicide bombings that have killed 34 has a Syrian passport, fuelling suspicions that foreign fighters were behind a rising tide of violence. Brigadier General Mark Hertling of the U.S. Armyâs 1st Armoured Division said on Monday police shot and wounded the man when he got out of a car and tried to hurl a grenade at a Baghdad police station. The car carried three mortar rounds and was packed with TNT, he said.
"Heâs a foreign fighter. He had a Syrian passport and the policemen claim that as he was shot and fell that he said he was Syrian," Hertling told a news conference. "Iâm a Syrian fighter and Iâm here to liberate....Ouch!"
Iraqâs Deputy Interior Minister Ahmad Ibrahim told the news conference the wounded attacker was now unconscious in hospital. Captured alive by Iraqi cops, excellent.
Hertling said suicide attacks were not typical of supporters of ousted Iraqi president Saddam Hussein, who have been blamed by the U.S. military for most of guerrilla attacks on its troops and other targets in postwar Iraq. Since Sammyâs local boys didnât want to die during the war, I didnât think too many would be signing up for a vest now.
"There are indicators that certainly these attacks have a mode of operation of foreign fighters," Hertling said, adding that possible foreign links among the attackers would be investigated in the days to come. About time.
Thirty-four people were killed, including eight police officers, in the suicide attacks on three other police stations and the Red Cross headquarters, Ibrahim said. Another 224 people were wounded, 65 of them police. One of the bombers, driving an Iraqi police car and wearing a police uniform, was admitted to a police compound before blowing himself and the station up, Hertling said. Iâll wager the Iraqi police are getting a little pissed off.
He described the attacks as coordinated but said the coordination was not very sophisticated, extending no further than a decision by the various attackers to set off their bombs between 8 a.m. and 10 a.m. "Thatâs not professional, itâs actually somewhat amateurish," Hertling said.
There was no indication that Mondayâs bombings were related to a Sunday rocket attack on a fortified Baghdad hotel where U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Paul Wolfowitz was staying, Hertling said. A U.S. soldier was killed and 17 people were wounded in that attack, but Wolfowitz was unhurt. The rocket attack was a bit more sophisticated, but nothing you couldnât put together in a garage or small welding shop.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 12:34:59 PM ||
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#1
I'm surprised they didn't kill him, as I thought they would have. Those were some admirably restrained police officers.
"...fuelling suspicions that foreign fighters were behind..."
Is anyone counting how many foreign fighters have to be unearthed before each media outlet stops referring to their presence as "suspicion"? Maybe we should call these speculative people Murati-Iraqis in honour of our resident champion of the Iraqi [sic] Resistance?
#2
Call me an optimist, but the impression I'm getting is that it's now us and 90% of the Iraqis versus the "foreign fighters" and 10% of the Iraqis. Why not move a brigade of 4ID in the general direction of Damascus and see what that does to the flow of "foregn fighters"?
Posted by: Matt ||
10/27/2003 12:58 Comments ||
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#3
Matt - no need. We're training Iraqis for that job. A new "class" of about 40 graduate every week, and take up border patrol duties. My sources tell me they whack about 200 to 300 "foreign fighters" a night, usually in small to moderate sized groups. The attitude among the Iraqi border guards, apparently, is "You're not coming into MY country to screw things up, not after we've gotten rid of Saddam".
A few obviously get through. The current attacks against both Iraqi and NGO targets seems to be a shift from a war against the "American agressors" to one against the "non-militant" Arab population of Iraq.
Expect as Sadr to have a hand in this mess somewhere, and expect him to get whacked, probably by Iraqis tired of foreign troublemakers on their soil. I'm getting the impression that Sadr is now considered more "foreign" than "local".
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/27/2003 13:13 Comments ||
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#4
OP, great info. Thanks as usual.
Posted by: Matt ||
10/27/2003 14:19 Comments ||
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#5
OP, are you serious?
"My sources tell me they whack about 200 to 300 "foreign fighters" a night, usually in small to moderate sized groups."
Why don't we hear more about it? Politics? Not ready to really tackle that situation yet?
Which border do the majority try and come across?
(Iran, Syria, Saudia Arabia)?
Thanks,
Daniel
Posted by: Daniel King ||
10/27/2003 15:23 Comments ||
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#6
My sources tell me they whack about 200 to 300 "foreign fighters" a night, usually in small to moderate sized groups.
I hope they're bumping most of these bastards off, and not capturing them. Housing and feeding terrorist lowlifes in a prison is largely a waste of money.
#7
I'm surprised they didn't kill him, as I thought they would have. Those were some admirably restrained police officers.
Actually, taking people alive to get information out of them was practised even in Saddam's Iraq. I suspect the next few days are going to be difficult ones for this Syrian prisoner. Good...
#8
Daniel King,
I don't think we are seeing much of the border war because there is no media on the border. Slaughtering 100 to 300 people traveling across a landscape without cover is not out of the question.
Although there are jihadis dying in some numbers, don't expect the collation miltary to provide a daily tally. This action will not be won by body count, but by establighing stability and freedom in Iraq.
For the military it is much easier psychologically to concentrate on the good we are doing. Do you remeber the "thunder run" through Baghdad? That convoy by itself killed 2000 enemy fighters at a minumum. How many Iraqis died that day in all of Iraq? Quite a few died, but very few of them would have had much of a place in the new Iraq.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 19:40 Comments ||
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#9
Daniel - why tell your enemy he's losing? Let him continue to send the gun-bunnies into the shredder - sooner or later, you'll end up the same way the Germans did during WWII - hollow "divisions" that had fewer able-bodied men than a platoon, whole armies with less than a thousand effectives.
Let's consider the number high - let's say the real number is more like 100. This has been going on for more than four months now - thats 120 days. It could go on for another year or more. How many people are going to be willing to become worm food? Sooner or later, these dumba$$es will wise up that they've lost, and there's no way to "retake" Iraq. When that happens, the whole house of cards in the Middle East will start falling.
Also understand - every "martyr" whose life's blood drains out onto the sands of Iraq is one less we'll have to face in Syria, Iran, or anywhere else where the slimeballs that encourage and support this kind of stupidity live.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/27/2003 22:40 Comments ||
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#10
I HOPE you're right OP but think if that were the case the administration would be trumpeting those results
From HealingIraq today
-thanks to Fred for adding Zayad to his long list of hotlinked blogs
Baby Bombs
The Mujahedeen are getting very creative day by day. Someone told me yesterday that a woman carrying a baby just a few months old was arrested in front of Al Yarmuk hospital in Baghdad after trying to enter. The IP and FPS found out that the baby was wrapped in explosives between his clothes. After questioning the woman she confessed that the baby was kidnapped and that some Arabs does she mean arabs with non iraq accents?
had offered her a considerable amount of money to get the baby inside the crowded emergency hall in the hospital, leave it there and they would do the rest. Pretty amazing isnât it? Hospitals? I canât understand why they didnât hang the woman on the spot. Because obviously the terrorists are craving for some attention. We could have given them all the attention they wanted by doing that.
I find this almost too depressing for comment and yet, it demonstrates something about the kind of people who the AP and Reuters depicts as the heroes of resistance.
Posted by: mhw ||
10/27/2003 9:54:15 AM ||
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#1
Murat -- this is the "resistance" you've been crowing about.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/27/2003 10:06 Comments ||
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#2
Murat -- A 'Real Man' doesn't hide bombs in babies and then get a woman to do his dirty work either....
#3
Another reason why a picture of a four-year-old being frisked by a GI should not generate outrage at the GI but at the "resistance" and their mentality that any innocent is exploitable and expendable.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/27/2003 10:26 Comments ||
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#4
The Religon of Peace wishes everybody a Happy Ramadan!
#7
This highlights something very important about the situation in Iraq. It seems to me that the majority of violence is being done by non-Iraqis. I am more than happy to admit that there a lot of Iraqis who don't want us there. But I can't believe that they would be so eager to stoop this low!
#8
Greg,
I wish I could agree with you that only non Iraqis could be so in human. However, the Baathists had concentration camps for children, and they tortured and raped people in front of relatives. It isn't much of a step from that to putting disguised explosives on babies. This doesn't mean it was necessarily Baathists who did this, but it certainly could have been.
Posted by: B ||
10/27/2003 13:26 Comments ||
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#10
Sounds pretty terrible, but I'm going to do a doubting Thomas and point out that this story has nothing in the way of credible evidence to support it. I hope it's not true...
#11
Bulldog,
I read what Zeyed has posted so far and most of it rings pretty true. His coverage of the dog sniffing episode is pretty balancedand has detail that he would only have if he were talking to witnesses.
For instance, Zeyed relays that the day after "sniffex" the coalition had women Iraqi police at the site of the riot to conduct searches. This would be an obvious Western solution, but Zeyed expreses surprise that there is such a thing as women police.
This confusion as the two cultures mix strikes me as real.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 19:49 Comments ||
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#12
SH, I don't doubt that Zayed is reporting things faithfully, and no doubt that he's who he is and believes what he writes, it's just that this particular outrage could so easily be an urban myth. AFAIK, this hasn't been reported anywhere in any media, so I'm going to continue to be sceptical, unless/until it's corroborated.
President Bush said Monday that U.S. progress in Iraq is making insurgents more "desperate" and spurring attacks such as the bombings at the international Red Cross headquarters and four police stations across Baghdad that killed dozens of people. "The more progress we make on the ground, the more free the Iraqis become, the more electricity thatâs available, the more jobs are available, the more kids that are going to school, the more desperate these killers become," Bush told reporters at the White House. He said those who are continuing to engage in violence "canât stand the thought of a free society. They hate freedom. They love terror. They love to try to create fear and chaos." But Bush, sitting next to civilian U.S. Iraqi administrator L. Paul Bremer in the Oval Office, said he remains "even more determined to work with the Iraqi people" to restore peace and civility to the wartorn nation. Said Bremer: "Weâll have rough days ... but the overall thrust is in the right direction and the good days outnumber the bad days." George Al Sahaf speeking?
Posted by: Murat ||
10/27/2003 9:44:23 AM ||
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#1
While many call suicide and other bombs the tools and means of the weak and poor to express themselves ,they are instead the tools of expediency and sheer laziness of the ruling and upper classes to control and direct the wealth and people of the causes they say they fight for.Be it Islamist,Irish or American so what George Bush says is true to an extent but instead of desperation it is more caused by the love of death and apathy of humanity
Killing U.S. military personnel proves to be a rather difficult endeavor, so the next thing to do is bomb Red Cross offices and hospitals? Yep, sounds like desperation to me.
#3
Yesterday I commented that this is not the Tet Offensive, but now it looks like it as an incredibly pitfiful version of Tet. This is to Tet,what the touch football game in my back yard is to Monday Night Football.
Maybe we can get Sean Penn to play the Jane Fonda role and wander about Tikrit looking for Sadaam to let him know that the Americans are breaking.
It would be interesting to discover whether the anti-war rallies over the weekend were scheduled to coincide with the start of Ramadan in hopes that there would be attacks.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 11:33 Comments ||
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#4
SH - I hope we get to kill as many of these gutless turds as VC were wiped out during Tet. Hollyweird and Walter Crankcase notwithstanding, it was one of the very very few "stand-up fights" of VietNam - and they were decimated. Bremer's doing it right, though I wish he was far more charismatic.
#5
SH & .com - I agree. This ain't no TET no matter how the anti-war crowd wants to paint it. If you guys want a good laugh check out www.democraticunderground.com - most of the posters there make Not Mike Moore look like a Pat Buchannan wanna be. They were actually hoping Wolfowitz got killed in that attack over the weekend.
As I've said before reconstruction will be long, arduous, and messy but it will eventually happen. This isn't going to be overnight. It's going to take patience and a lot of gritty determination on all our parts. Americans just need to remember we're dealing w/a 50 yr old infrastructure and a people who have no idea what democracy looks like.
#6
So it's a sign of desperation? Probably true in part, but that simple fact hasn't helped the Israelis stop the attacks in a much smaller area than Iraq. The other part is that the radicals are going after civilian targets to frighten non-americans into leaving. Not to mention that like in 'Nam, we're fighting an enemy with an open border. I think some of you boys are in for a very rude awakening.
#7
Not to mention that like in 'Nam, we're fighting an enemy with an open border. I think some of you boys are in for a very rude awakening.
-Negative. The 'Nam comparisons do not wash. Some of these posters are 'Nam Vets and I'm an active duty Marine. We know the difference. I have friends who have jsut returned from Baghdad, this is not even in the same league. The mission is different, the goals are different, the enemy is different, and the terrain is 100% different. The Ba'athists and foreign fighters will get their licks in, hit & run, but eventually will be subdued. Israel's also a whole other situation completely & not a very good comparison.
#8
All wars are different. The common threads are the same: tactics, strategy, and grand strategy. Guerrilla tactics flourish when you have suitable territory for hiding, open borders, and a portion of the local population willing to support you. The essence of guerrilla war is the avoidance of direct combat, while resorting to indirect methods to wear down the patience, will, and morale of the enemy. The tactics go back to the Roman general Fabius, who hid out for years in the mountains of Italy using hit and run methods against the Carthiginians. I would suggest the book Strategy by Liddell Hart.
#9
I think some of you boys are in for a very rude awakening.
You're hoping so, aren't you slumming? I think you are in for a rude awakening in the next round of elections. Big turnout in DC last weekend?
Posted by: B ||
10/27/2003 13:24 Comments ||
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#10
Big turnout in DC last weekend?
Huh? So big it didn't make the news. I had almost forgot there was an idiotarian convention in DC. Was there even a couple thousand? Anyone know? There was a pro-War/pro-America rally in Atlanta this weekend. Still going on as a matter of fact, I'd guess between 150,000 and 200,000 people. Suck on that. Beyatch.
#11
Am I hoping for a rude awakening? Of course not. Am I expecting one. Probably. Has the military done anything wrong? Not at all. Does the military create grand strategy? No. Those are political, economic, and social strategies, to be formulated by the government leaders responsible for the war. Was that thought out by our government leaders? Not with any sense of reality. Finally, am I anti-war? Not that simple at all. Unlike many of our present leaders, I did my time. Volunteered in fact. It's just that before you start one, you had best be sure what you're going to do after the bombs stop dropping. Nobody bothered here, except with a bunch of vague platitudes. Given recent history, and the hatred of islam for the US, a guerrilla war was almost inevitable. Now we've got a big "oops, what now".
#12
slumming - so you're confident that the listed components (you left out cash, arms, logistics, etc) will allow guerilla tactics to flourish. Sorta like heat, oxygen, and fuel = fire. I would say that, as with the HOF=F formula, removing one or more of these essential components would make the presence of the others either irrelevant or far less so... and the guerillas would not have the required means for success. So hypothetically, of course, if the support of the local population was removed - or more precisely - the ability of the local population to provide support (food, shelter, communications, store arms, etc.) was removed, then what level of insurgency would you expect?
An example test might be the engagement and defeat of sympathetic support, say in the Sunni Triangle - a major source of indigenous trouble and a convenient store & hide for the Baghdad attacks, which would have occurred to some fair degree had we had a Northern Front to be the anvil for the Southern Front hammer. As it turned out, this area got a pass - and now is the primary thorn in the coalition's side, I'd wager. Make sense?
This is certainly the lynchpin region for those who want Iraq to fall back into Ba'athist control. And the situation has probably made strange bedfellows of the Sunnis with foreign fighters - even some Shi'a - with a common goal of driving out the coalition and then facing each other for control or the carving up of Iraq between them.
So what would we do if this hypothesis is satisfatory in covering the pieces needed for the current level of guerilla / insurgent activity?
Of course I have a suggestion, but it would get nothing but grief if it came from me - cuz I'm evil ;->
#13
I would suggest the book Strategy by Liddell Hart.
-Good to go, and I would suggest the book "Small Wars Manual" by the U.S. Marine Corps. Thanks for the rest of the history lesson. Although the
Iraqis are not one-tenth of what the V.C. were. When we start seeing a couple hundred servicemen deaths a week vice hundreds of civilian deaths then I'll have the rude awakening.
#15
I'd agree with slumming's point that the post-war planning has been exceptionally weak. It's as if the war planners have been caught off guard by the quick success of the earlier campaign. Even the guerilla tactics at the start of the war should have been a hint of what's to come.
The US is in a no-win situation here: the kindler-gentler approach means the US will take casualties and criticism at home; the strong-armed methods that are required will play into the hands of Islamic propaganda and draw condemnation from the world (and at this day and age that's very easy to do).
If there is in fact progress in Iraq, someone in Washington should be proclaiming this from atop a mountain every day. Even if it's trivial. Otherwise every bombing will be seen as a failure.
Having said all this, it is still a bit early to call this thing a big failure. If two years from now we are still at the same stage as today, then maybe I'll start to worry.
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/27/2003 14:53 Comments ||
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#16
The iraqis aren't even close to being a tenth of what the VC were. But that war lasted thirty years. Neither we nor the french were prepared for that. Of ourse the level of violence now doesn't come close to that: but then we knew we were in a full-fledged war. Also agreed that the items I mentioned are obvious, but many obviious things get overlooked. Such as you can fight with very limited cash and arms, and almost no logistics at all if someone else (like the Saudis and Syrians) will provide them for you. The base question doesn't relate to tens or hundreds of deaths a week. The goal of guerrilla war is to undermine the WILL of the enemy, not to defeat him. To maintain the will of the people, you have to honest with them up front what's going to happen before it actually happens; didn't happen here.
#17
To maintain the will of the people, you have to honest with them up front what's going to happen before it actually happens; didn't happen here.
Yes, it did. It's not the administration's problem that their statements have been twisted, that the opposition routinely lies about what was said before the war. The administration was honest and up-front; the opposition preferred to debate with strawmen.
And it just continues; for example, Clark used the "imminent" lie a few times in last night's debate.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/27/2003 15:26 Comments ||
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#18
Honest disagreement here. But then, that's what the whole problem revolves around. WMD's are dangeroous to have around, particularly if you're as paranoid as Hussein, and worried your own generals will use them against you. Claiming you have them works just about as well. Myself, I think the Iraqis before the war were throwing out dis-information by the truckload, and the CIA and the Administration fell for it because it jibed with what they believed. Just please don't tell me that wasn't the justification for immediate war. It was. As the months roll by and no WMDs are found, the Admins authority drops correspondingly. Hell, even I believed him originally.
#19
If I hear one more person rant 'Poor post-war planning' I am going to track them down and BITCH-SLAP them! There is NOBODY on this earth (except maybe the DEM Dwarfs) that could predict what is going on now. For Christ's sake the 'war/occupation' hasn't lasted a year! The insurgents/terrorists are fighting in desperation. IF they could attack U.S. forces they would, so they DESPERATELY attacked a Red-Crescent site. This will NOT endear them to the local population. It has been the Iraqis that have lead our forces to weapons caches and terrorists. Also, most reports have US chasing THEM, not the other way around. If they are still bombing hotels next spring, I would concede defeat. All I am saying is give them a friggin chance to SUCCEED! It may take longer than a Hockey season, but it WILL be worth it. FINNALY: THIS IS NOT VIETNAM.
#20
As the months roll by and no WMDs are found, the Admins authority drops correspondingly.
Ah. Another person who has never bothered to read beyond the NYT version of the Kay report.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/27/2003 16:13 Comments ||
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#21
PLANS for WMDs have been found. I've gone quite a ways beyond the NYTimes, which by the way I don't read since they're way too slanted. Since when do PLANS constitute an imminent threat? He had them. He got rid of them sometime after the inspectors left. He lied to everyone about still having them to scare people off (probably one of the biggest blunders in military history). Our intelligence fell for the dis-information. The insurgents aren't desperately attacking civilian targets. They're TERRORISTs, and doing things to inspire terror (another one of those obvious things that gets overlooked). Still bombing next spring? Try ten years from now. These people fought the crusaders for two hundred years, and they remember.
#22
Not to mention that like in 'Nam, we're fighting an enemy with an open border. I think some of you boys are in for a very rude awakening.
The border situation might be similar to the Vietnam War, but that's where the similarity ends. Infiltration of Iraq via Syria isn't likely to be tolerated for the length of time that infiltration of Vietnam from Laos and Cambodia were.
Unlike Johnson, this president so far appears to be very willing to use a blunt instrument in the proper manner if the situation calls for it.
#23
So throw up your arms and give up. Oh wait, you already have. You're so well informed and yet so, uh, helpless and distraught. Such insight. Such empathy. So concerned. I think you're Diane Sawyer.
#24
To .com: Helpless? Distraught? I don't think so. I just like to know what I'm walking into before I get there. Surprises in war are always unpleasant. If you can't deal with every possibility, you can at least plan for them. I don't come here to comment often. When I have, I've been generally impressed that even people who disagree with me rather sharply avoid the snotty personal attacks. Not you. Is it just possible you haven't anything more intelligent to say? It isn't a question of whether or not infiltration will be tolerated or not. There are hundreds of miles of open border not just from Syria but Iran and Saudi Arabia as well. Patrolling it all will be virtually impossible. Once again, this isn't due to any fault of the military. It reflects a lack of proper grand strategic thinking. No one could have predicted this sort of outcome??? Please. This sort of thing is exactly what should have been thought of by high level planners with all the contingency plans in place. If there were no acceptable alternatives, the strategic plan itself should have been re-worked to cover the borders from the outset.
#25
Cyber Sarge: If I hear one more person rant 'Poor post-war planning' I am going to track them down and BITCH-SLAP them!
Save a cheek for me... a question I'd like to insert into the next debate, when they start this line of comments:
"As candidates, you had all plans for winning the Presidency. But, with the possible exception of Mr. Dean, it appears that President Bush's plan for Iraq has done much, much better than your Presidency plan. Would you care to comment?"
#26
You offer nothing. You just whine. I responded, at length, to your post above - and you ignored it and went on whining and moaning and playing the NaziMedia dupe - then denying it.
Woulda shoulda coulda...
Offer suggestions. Quote your magic book, if needed, but cut the whining and contribute something other than endless rejection of everything posted. Geez, what waste of time.
#27
To .com: I believe you just proved my point. Your last comment is nothing but more character attacks. You really don't like it when soomeone disagrees with you, do you? Just like preaching to the choir?
Since you feel I ignored you: yes there is a lot of problems in the Sunni triangle. Unfortunately, even if we subdue the area, we still have islamic extremeists crossing over to gain entrance to heaven by killing the infidel swine.Yes, it would have been a lot better if we had had Turkish support. But we didn't. Since we would have had better information about the threat level if our intelligence agencies had done their job, we could have waited until the Turks came around, and had a far better base to interdict raiders coming from Syria, and better logistical support for the north. Now we're stuck in the hated Vietnam quandry: how to win the hearts and minds of the people short of killing them. Cordoning off the Sunni triangle would require about twice the unumber of troops we have now, unless your enigmatic last comment was a suggestion to nuke the whole area.
As far as my "Magic" book, it isn't really just mine. Patton once said he kept his copy under his pillow so he could read it when he had trouble sleeping. Rommell had a copy as well.
So what do I offer? It's a little late, isn't it? But I would suggest doing a Nixon. Stablize the rest of the country, arm our guys to the teeth, declare victory, and get the hell out. If the good guys really have the support of the people, they should be able to get rid of the evil-does themselves.
#29
"I believe you just proved my point. Your last comment is nothing but more character attacks."
Geez - more whining. I didn't attack your character - I stated the truth:
you offered nothing but observations regarding obvious problems - and declared them insoluble.
Well, your conclusion fits your view:
"declare victory, and get the hell out"
#30
Just was watching Lou Dobbs interviewing a man named Kirek, who was responsible for helping the Iraqi interior ministry set up police and security until a month ago. He said much the same thing. Arm the Iraqis, train 30,000 Iraqi police, and turn it over to them. They can root out the bad guys, we can't. Since he was running the program, maybe he knows what he's talking about. I didn't say declare victory and get the hell out. I said arm the Iraqis to the teeth, turn the job over to them, declare victory, and get the hell out. Same thing. I think if Bush would say much the same thing in public, he would be a lot better off, like: we got rid of the bad guys, we'll train and equip the good guys, we're not going to watch over them forever. Or are you really looking at this like we have a permanent colony now in the mideast? I haven't declared problems insoluable, nor have I been whining all that much. I have pointed out at some length the various trails of poor reasoning and thought that got us to this point. On the other hand, I didn't get us into this mess in the first place. "NaziMedia dupe" isn't a character attack? On the other hand, you feel that this site belongs strictly to people who believe only what you do, just say so. I mean, god forbid you should have to have a real arguement with someone if you don't think that's reasonable.
#31
To: .com Checked around to some of your posts on other questions. You really do go in for the personal attack, don't you? Must be because you don't have much else to say. I'll keep it in mind and not bother with you in the future.
#32
Slumming, I think .com means be patient. Americans have a tendancy for proactivity, that is a very admirable quality. As a country, we also have the failing of not being able to step back and look at the big picture. Nixon cut and ran; but we did a lot better in the end by staying the course in Korea - which at many points looked an awful lot worse than Vietnam ever got.
Irans nuclear program and the Syria/Lebanon instability will require us to be in Iraq for the time being anyway. Let's not be so quick to slap together the Iraqi police force and army that we reinstall the very same bozos that we just had to fight.
When I was a kid, my great uncle taught me how to feed chickadees out of my hand. Patience and perserverence is what this is going to take.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 20:02 Comments ||
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#33
The fellow Kirek that Lou Dobbs was interviewing said it would take about 18 months to train the police. I don't think that's cutting and running, and I think people would stand for it. Someone in top level authority needs to say that's what we're going to do. Build them so they can take care of themselves, turn it over to them, and leave. Or not. I can be patient as long as I have the idea that someone has put together a cogent exit strategy, and that they understand what we're in, and that these bad people aren't just going to fade away because we wish they would. Nixon didn't just cut and run. We spent years building up the ARVN. The trouble there was that the government was corrupt and didn't have the backing of their own people.
That doesn't mean we can't say that Bush is doing a shit job if in fact he is doing a shit job (or whoever the brains behind post-war Iraq happens to be).
Posted by: Rafael ||
10/27/2003 21:32 Comments ||
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#35
slumming--Congrats--you've just joined the League of dissenters who get personlly whacked by .com's insane character assassination--disagree with him--and it becomes personal--instantly!
A man described as a key local Baath Party figure plotting against coalition and Iraqi authorities was killed and eight people were captured during a raid by U.S. forces, the U.S. military said Monday. Capt. Brian Cope, spokesman of the 2nd Brigade, 101st Airborne Division, identified the dead man only as Abu Fares. Cope said the man was killed before dawn Sunday when he opened fire on U.S. forces during a raid. "Youâll never take me alive.......Ouch!"
An Iraqi woman was injured in the raid, Cope said. He said those arrested were "a combination of former regime loyalists and active cells" that were "currently plotting against the coalition as well as the local government and local police." Cope described Abu Fares as a Baath Party figure and suspected leader of "an organization that is plotting against both the coalition and the local government." Now a dead figure.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 9:25:09 AM ||
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#1
The other eight should have been deep-sixed also. The only good Baathist is a DEAD Baathist.
#2
We need to try them, find them guilty where the evidence is conclusive, then hang them in the busiest public square in the city. Leave the bodies there to rot. Let the peace-loving people know we'll protect them to the best of our ability, and let the ass-hats know we'll see them rotting in Iraq - THEN in Hell - for their behavior.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/27/2003 11:55 Comments ||
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#3
In the style of Black Jack Pershing; a trench needs to be dug, filled w/pig entrails & fecal matter, be-head the other eight, drop their sorry asses in the trench, and top it off with some freshly slaughtered swine carcasses. Make it public for all the locals to appreciate. Let them see some old school American justice. Happy Ramadan.
#4
UH--Jarhead--I don't think MY country stands for that kind of barbaric action--leave that to the crazed, eye rolling jihadis--as Americans we're much better than that!
#5
NMM, our country did stand for that in the Phillipines when Pershing was there, albeit a long time ago. Guess what, it worked. You're looking at them w/a western & Christian attitude my friend. We are not dealing with either over there. Meet people on their terms and in a way they understand. The folks we're dealing w/respect brute force - kindness is mistaken for weakness as is leniency. Same attitude the Somalis had in '93.
A BAGHDAD hotel where US defence chief Paul Wolfowitz was staying was yesterday blitzed by rockets made in FRANCE. Half of the missiles fired were modern French weapons, said experts â produced after the arms embargo imposed on Iraq following the first Gulf War. The French government has furiously denied turning a blind eye to illegal weapon supplies, despite the recent discovery in Iraq of military hardware apparently built there.
"Non, non! Certainment not!"
The rockets were fired from a home-made launcher disguised as a power generator. Six hit the hotel, two hit the ground, six more did not explode and 11 failed to launch.
Posted by: Karma ||
10/27/2003 6:55:24 AM ||
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#1
Sacre Blow!
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
10/27/2003 9:34 Comments ||
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#2
When will ChIrak get diselected so that he can be tried!?
Posted by: Dan ||
10/27/2003 10:55 Comments ||
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#4
This is pretty completely unsourced. The "experts" aren't named, or identified in any way. Color me unconvinced.
Posted by: john bragg ||
10/27/2003 11:48 Comments ||
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#5
John, here's your source: Altogether, the launcher held 40 missile pods, said Brig. Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, commander of the First Armored Division, whose responsibility is the security of Baghdad. General Dempsey spoke Sunday evening at a news conference held in a building in a compound near the Rashid Hotel.
Half the missiles were 68-millimeter, which have a range of two to three miles; the other half were 85-millimeter, with a three- to four-mile range, he said. The smaller ones were French-made, and designed for use by helicopters. The others were Russian. The French rockets, officers said, were quite new, and were probably purchased after the arms embargo was in place. ``They were in pristine condition,'' said one military officer who inspected the rocket tubes and assembly. Mr. Hussein had weapons of that type, but General Dempsey said he did not know if the missiles used the hotel attack came from Mr. Hussein's arsenal.
General Dempsey described the device as ``clever, but not sophisticated.'' He called it ``a science project in a garage with a welder and a battery and a handful of wires.''
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 12:16 Comments ||
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#6
Dan is right! we should be grateful that they use Frog weapons! It is in our own best interests!
#8
They French were assured that the missiles were only to be used for peaceful purposes. The Russians didn't know that any missles had been sold and can't find any documentation regarding the missiles manufacture.
Sounds like the rats are getting bolder.
A car bomb exploded Monday in front of the international Red Cross building and police said at least two people were killed and several injured. A series of blasts rumbled through the city. One witness said the bomb was packed in an ambulance but there was no confirmation from police. Ah, some Paleos slipped across the border.
Iraqi police Lt. Sultan Mohammed said the blast at the Red Cross building was caused by a car bomb. He said the driver and perhaps a passerby were killed. Two cars could be seen burning in front of the building. A Red Cross staffer, Mahdi Saad, said several people were believed to have been killed or injured inside the building, which appeared to have suffered some damage. Three other blasts could be heard throughout the city following the Red Cross blast, which occurred after 8:30 a.m. Witnesses said one blast was in the al-Khadra neighborhood, where the relief organization CARE is located. Another was in the al-Shaab district, another witness said. Targeting the NGOâs? Wonder if they had accepted or declined US security measures?
They saw the UN run after they got boomed. They expect the others to do the same...
The blasts occurred one day after a rocket attack on the Al Rasheed Hotel, where U.S. military and coalition officials lived. An American colonel was killed and 18 people were injured in the Sunday attack. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz was in the building but escaped injury. The explosion at the Red Cross building apparently broke a water main because the streets were flooded with water. American troops and Iraqi police streamed into the neighborhood and cordoned off the area. Ghani Kadim, 50, a cigarette vendor, said he watched an ambulance move down the street toward the Red Cross building. "As it entered the front gate of the compound, it exploded," he said. Another witness, Maiytham Mohammed, said the blast knocked him off his feet and "there was huge smoke from the area." "We are aware of an explosion near the Red Cross building," a U.S. military spokesman said. "A quick reaction force was sent to the area." Now would be a good time for some local intel to cash in.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/27/2003 2:21:56 AM ||
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#1
Ten bucks that later today the US is blamed for allowing the bombings to happen, instead of blaming who carried them out.
Posted by: Charles ||
10/27/2003 2:32 Comments ||
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#2
Targeting the UN & NGOs is classic Izzoid - they don't give a shit about their fellow Muslims - endless suffering is what they want. They know the media will, indeed, blame the US... right after they figure out how to blame the US for the recent sunspots and the resurgence of polio and moronic Muslim fears of vaccines and disappearing penises. They won't bother with looking too long -- if the facts don't drop by the hotel bar and demand to be taken into account, they'll just make 'em up or use spin to cover the lack.
Charles, after much deliberation, I'll put $10 on "The Jooos Did It"
#3
The morlock authoritarians ("true because we say it is") at nazimedia are already blaming the US, not for allowing the bombings to happen, but for actually carrying them out.
I wonder if the media-careerists who run nazimedia understand that the steady diet of incitement to terrorism and violence they provide to their timid but impressionable audience must sooner or later reach critical mass? The climax could come very suddenly, given the extreme conformity and mob mentality of the far left.
At that point, the nazimedia audience, the moonbat conformist element of the pop-left, will spontaneously erupt in really massive violence.
I believe that this will happen next year, when nazimedia and other LLL agitators will try to delegitimize either the Democratic nomination (because a non-moonbat is nominated), or (if Dean or Kucinich is nominated) the general election. The 2000 election and the recall in California have provided a lot of practice for this.
The nazimedia and LLL leaders, of course, do not want a violent showdown, but they are trapped by their own rhetoric. In order to maintain their own power and prestige, they must maintain the perceived level of stridency and feed the outrage of their followers, until the latter reaches the point at which their natural aggression overcomes their innate cowardice.
The "peace movement" is dropping any pretense of interest in peace, and revealing themselves for the murder apologists and savage power-seeking authoritarians they have always been.
"The peace movement is objectively pro-fascist"-George Orwell, 1942.
#4
No offence but you have to give those Iraqis some credit, they are getting more and more organised, they knew exactly in which hotel Wolfowitz was sleeping. Those mean Baathy boys disturbing so ruthlessly Paulâs beauty sleep, he should sue Saddam for getting him ripples.
Posted by: Murat ||
10/27/2003 5:02 Comments ||
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#5
Murat, that building, indeed the whole city, is full of fifth column media career builders who would cheerfully sell their mothers to Kim Il Sung for a little access. How much easier then would it be for the media-swine to provide a little intel to people with whom they actively sympathize, and probably have lucrative financial relationships? The jihadis didn't know which room Wolfy was in, or they were unable to hit it (perhaps because the heroic rocketeers ran away before their weapons launched). Gloating about this shows just how desperate the Saddam apologists and islamo-fascist sympathizers have become for any semblance of success.
#6
Maybe he was wise enough to switch rooms with the colonel who knows.
Posted by: Murat ||
10/27/2003 5:25 Comments ||
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#7
I should've guessed this would bring out the shitheads.
Murat, for any visitors, is one of the three disingenuous denizens of hate that frequent Rantburg on an irregular basis - whenever they think there's something to gloat about or an interminable debate afoot where someone might mistakenly take them seriously or well after everyone else has gone for the day. (those are hints)
Murat is our gloater. He peaks in orgasmic giddy joy when an American dies. He is a Turk. He is a Moslem. He is an asshole. But first, and foremost, he is our pet bitch.
I leave it the regular Rantburgerians to guess the other two spheres (i.e. pointless) of disinfluence.
I now think of them as Rantburg's very own Axis of Bitches.
Relax down, easy boy, take your pills before you get hurt yourself, donât throw with dirt while you self are the elite member of the axis of assholes. Why do you have to take shitty words always, do you have problems with clean language (oh well I shall not expect a decent level from you and blame it on your childhood, bad education from your mama)
Posted by: Murat ||
10/27/2003 5:56 Comments ||
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#9
Zeyad at Healing Iraq isn't about to join you and "give those Iraqis [sic] some credit, they are getting more and more organised". He accounts:
"My brother came home from school very early this morning and told us all about it. His high school is about 200 meters from the targetted site. He told us that blood was all over the place and people from the area were putting injured kids from the school into taxis taking them to hospitals. Parents were panicking trying to find their children among the mess."
#11
Shitheads, asshole, bitches - these words upset you? So, uh, the death of Americans amuses you, but these words offend? You are a singuar treasure, muRat, and my favorite troll bitch.
And to be named an elite, not just a card-carrying or regular member, but an elite member of those you would consider to be the "axis of assholes" (I see it didn't bother you all that much, now did it!) is an honor I shall wear proudly.
BTW, my mother was a dead-eye shot and would've kicked your ass with ease - in any venue. Oh, and say hello to your wife for me, we "smoked" again recently, but no words were spoken. None were needed, of course. 8^)
#12
AC - Those are excellent and telling points. I would like to believe the follower-twits aren't quite that gullible, but there is scant evidence for such optimism - and plenty for your predictions. Sigh. Thx.
BD - Thx. I hadn't checked Zeyad out today, but I will now! BTW, "sick f***" - can I order you a new kybd? Mine seems to work a little better... ;->
I did not start this war did I? If there is a credit you talk about it is on the account of the US and UK, do you remember that limbless kid whose family died in the rain of bombs (happy to be liberated by the US), victim of the mass destruction weapon lies. My heart is aching with the compassion you try to picture now dear Bulldog, albeit a camouflaged one it is nice tried, you almost convinced me the US and Britain being saints.
Posted by: Murat ||
10/27/2003 6:49 Comments ||
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#14
There was a difference then, Murat. The US and Britain went to extreme lengths to avoid civilian casualties during the war itself. Now in Baghdad, suicide bombers are deliberately targetting civilians, delibertely setting off bombs outside schools in the full knowledge that innocent people will die as a result. Their main target was a humanitarian organisation, FFS. And for this activity, you ask us to give "credit" to the murders.
On the one hand you condemn the coalition for a mounting a campaign in which civilians were not targetted (a campaign in which the aggressors dropped concrete bombs on armoured vehicles hidden in civilian areas where their owners thought they might have enjoyed protection from allied bombs precisely because they would go to strenuous efforts to avoid civilian casualties), which removed a man and his regime which over the years was responsible for the pointless deaths of millions of your fellow Muslims, and then you revel in the deliberate slaughter of more of your fellow Muslims in the streets and schools of Baghdad today. Calling someone a "sick f***" is not something I do very often, but unless you start condemning murder instead of "crediting" it, it's a label you're going to be stuck with.
#15
UPDATE: The BBC now puts the death toll at "more than 30".
Police also apparently stopped one suicide bomber:
"At a fifth police station, officers stopped an apparent suicide bomber before he could detonate his vehicle. "He was shouting, 'Death to the Iraqi police! You're collaborators!'" said police sergeant Ahmed Abdel Sattar."
I guess it's likely that his was the only death at that location.
Does the "credit" level rise in line with the death toll, Murat?
#16
Whow now donât put words in my mouth, where did I write to give credit for murder, I gave them credit for more and more organised attacks, or do you claim different?
They do get more and more affective, bombing of the hotels where Americans reside, bombing of the UN, bombing the Turkish embassy, shooting rockets on the al Rashid hotel disturbing the nightly rest of Paulie, shooting down a black hawk. They are fighting an asymmetric warfare like David against Goliath, and for the body count they are nowhere near the death toll the âalliesâ inflicted upon the Iraqis. At least they are the one fighting against the occupation and the looting of their oil. Ahhh, I guess you are now going lecture me on the noble aims of the US to better the world and all of those billions invested into the war and those casualties sacrificed has nothing to do with self benefit and the hegemony on the world resources. You guys are saints, simply lovely.
Posted by: Murat ||
10/27/2003 8:27 Comments ||
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#17
Wonderful kick-off to the "holy" month of Ramadan, eh?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/27/2003 8:33 Comments ||
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#18
According to a StategyPage.com article the situation in Iraq is a civil war like the one in Lebanon ten years ago rather than resistance against The Coalition. So once a permanent Goverment is in place the Shi'a and Kurd forces plus some Sunn'i allies would wipeout the Baathists and Islamists
#19
Murat, let's not refer to the Red Cross bombers and Saddam loyalists and foreign terrorists as "those Iraqis" -- that's an insult to Iraqis. And ".com": let's not refer to Murat as a Turk or a Moslem -- that's an insult to Turks and Moslems. I can't dispute "gloater" though, and that's a characteristic that no Rantburger, Iraqi, Turk, or Moslem would find to be endearing. Scurry away, m-YOU-RAT! Back to your hole!
Posted by: Tom ||
10/27/2003 8:38 Comments ||
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#20
I gave them credit for more and more organised attacks
And this morning's bombings weren't "organised attacks"? Firing rockets within central Baghdad at a hotel doesn't endager civilians? you can't criticise the coalition for inflicting civilian casualties and at the same time relish these bombings and rocket attacks taking place now, or are you too stupid to see the contradiction? f I wasn't feeling so charitable, I'd call you a hypocrite, for that is what you are.
They are fighting an asymmetric warfare like David against Goliath
I don't remember David sneaking off to the Philistine camp to murder innocent women and children. Come to think of it, I don't remember David trying to kill Goliath in his bed. David fought like a man, not like a coward. The terrorists you admire so much are successful at the moment only because they attack soft targets and use the innocent as their shields. They, and you, are scum.
#21
What a wonderful sense of outrage from Bulldog and his ilk. Really droll, calling Murat a "sick f***". That really ends all argument. Murat is silenced forever. Speaking of civilian casualties, I find it even more refreshing to find that according to people like Bulldog and .com, the US army evidently did not kill any civilian. It's like this -- all the people killed by the US army just had to be terrorists, right? Otherwise what coould they have been doing standing in the line of fire?
Oh yes, and the cluster bombs that are now strewn all over the countryside? The ones that will undoubtedly kill and maim a few hundred Iraqi children more? They were probably planted by the French/Iraqi/German/Rest of the world opposing unilateral action, just to discredit the US.
I find all this very convincing, really. It's the truth. It's probably on Fox news as well.
Besides, what would we do without the US protecting us from evil dictators like Saddam and Musharraf...(oops, not Mush. He is a "trusted ally against the war on terror")? Three cheers for the USA. Selflessly sacrificing soldiers and other civilians for the true goal - democracy. The oil reserves are an incidental bonus...the US never thought of that, honest...
Just to be clear, then--it's OK when the PKK, for example, kills Turks in order to end the occupation of their land (the PKK aren't even foreign fighters!). They should also target Red Cross installations and civilian targets--that way I should jump on Rantburg to "credit" them, correct?
I used to understand your point of view even when I disagreed with it. No more. If you miss Saddam, just come out and say so.
If you like fighting like a man you could arrange sophisticated weapons, attack helicopters, space and radar technology and all of the rest of armoured material to the Iraqis and fight on an equal basis. Or you could leave all of those armors, helicopters etc. and fight man to man like a real man does, I know you would do that since you donât belong to the cowards and scum dear Bulldog.
Posted by: Murat ||
10/27/2003 8:54 Comments ||
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#24
Fighting the occupation, over the body of one Cypriot child at a time. I mean, it was fair what your side did to them, right Murat?
Baiting Aris...
Posted by: Brian ||
10/27/2003 9:15 Comments ||
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#25
To Prof I do not recall the manual abuot combat that states civilians never die in wars however there is a far difference between trying to avoid civilians causalities with some being killed or wounded and deliberate attacks of civilian targets. As for the remark about Musharff instead of using him as a reason not to have overthrown Saddam who a butcher of humanity why don't You instead call for the ouster Musharrf who as a supporter of Islamic Criminal Groups is responsible for the murder of many thousands though not to the scale of Saddam's Mafia
#26
Or you could leave all of those armors, helicopters etc. and fight man to man like a real man does
Ah, the third-world myth of the warrior. It's so cute when they feel their manhood is threatened.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/27/2003 9:28 Comments ||
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#27
Murat talks about fighting like a man. Sorry Murat, but 'real men' dont target innocent civilians. 'Real men' dont target non-combatants like the Red Cross. 'Real men' dont hide in hospitals and ambulances.
Murat, what we have here are a bunch of rabit dogs and they should be treated as rabid dogs and outright killed on sight before innocent people get hurt.
This isn't 'David vs Goliath' (a Jewish reference Murat?).
And Prof. If we wanted the Oooiiiilll! We would not be building schools and hospitals would we? We would simply take and hold the oil fields and let the rest of the country (except for the pipelines) burn -- f*ck them.
Instead we are building and repairing schools and hospitals. Restoring and Improving infrastructure. And allowing the Iraqi people to be free.
You see we did this sort of thing before in Japan and Europe after WW 2. Its an odd habit we have to rebuild countries. We are not 'perfect' and we dont claim to be.
#29
Snellnr: I'd put my money on Lewis even if it were Jerry Lewis he was fighting.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/27/2003 9:47 Comments ||
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#30
Charles: I hate to post where Murat, The Troll, has sucked all the air out of the bandwidth...but your question (how long before they blame the Americans) has already been answered; it took nano seconds.
One official said that the military had specific intelligence of an imminent attack on the hotel, the Rashid, where senior personnel of the American occupation live and eat, but that no special precautions had been taken.
they said, it was unlikely that Mr. Wolfowitz was a target. His visit was not announced in advance.
Nonetheless, a senior military official said, ''We knew this was coming.'' The official, speaking on the condition that he not be identified, declined to give details, but said several precautionary security measures could have been taken, including moving Mr. Wolfowitz and his delegation out of the hotel, increasing the security alert and increasing patrols around the hotel. None of those things happened, he said.
Oh but wait, the reporter either has dementia or didn't get a complete scoop and an editor tagged it into this piece later. Because apparently the terrorists managed to bypass security measures which had been taken.
The launcher was hidden in a blue trailer made to resemble a mobile electricity generator, a ubiquitous item in Baghdad, where electrical service is unreliable. In the quiet of early Sunday morning, a white passenger vehicle towed the trailer down a major street that runs between the hotel and a large park. It was then unhitched at a cloverleaf that had been closed by the Americans for security reasons. The car pulled away. Soon after, at 6:08 a.m., 8 to 10 missiles thudded into the hotel, about 450 yards away, officials said.
Posted by: B ||
10/27/2003 10:44 Comments ||
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#31
Murat - never seen a post of yours where your an
idiot. What gives?
Fight like a man - just like the turks left all their tanks, attack helicopters and jets when fighting the kurds. And this was not against a very large country with a large armed forces....and the turks were very virtuous in their actions during this endeavorâ¦I bet your history books are full of bullshit.
What a load of crap you spew these days...you sound like the little country that is too stupid to admit their own shortcomings.
The Euroelites spanked your Asses - not allowing NATO come help you guys and then giving you shit on membership in the EU.
You are in a dangerous part of the world and your only friends (well kind of if we have too) are the Americans.
Posted by: Dan ||
10/27/2003 10:54 Comments ||
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#32
Ahhh, I guess you are now going lecture me on the noble aims of the US to better the world and all of those billions invested into the war and those casualties sacrificed has nothing to do with self benefit and the hegemony on the world resources. You guys are saints, simply lovely.
Murat-
You would prefer Saddam - youâre a frog.
Bottom line is that the United States no longer is going take this bullshit of hate and violence directed towards her. These countries cannot support terrorism and be immune. No matter who is president we cannot shriek from this challenge - not when our homeland is endangered.
And obviously Murat - as a Turk - you are a little peeved and envious of our power. You used to be top dog in your sphere - no more...get used to it. We are in this for the long haul and no bombings by a few idiots is going to change this.
Iraq today is a much different place than 8 months ago - no one can refute this. Yes there are some problems, but look at where the problems are. They are with the Sunnis - the same people who have ruled the majority for the last 80 years and who have the everything to loose. Why because under Saddam (your buddy) they reaped the benefits at the expense of the rest.
So take a hard look at what is happening in your neck of the woods and ask yourself "Just how bad is it? If you want the status quo it is very bad, but if you want a chance at freedom the future is looking a little brighter than 8 months ago.
Posted by: Dan ||
10/27/2003 11:20 Comments ||
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#33
The Red Cross?!
What evil jihadi ignorant f'ers.
Muhammed did say all crosses would be smashed, so they are just following their evil prophet.
From the Hadiths:
"Jesus son of Mary shall descend; then he will kill the swine and destroy the Cross; and a congregation will be held for him for the Prayer; and he will distribute so much wealth that people will be satiated with it; and he will abolish the tribute; and he will encamp at Rauha', B and from there will go to perform Hajj or 'Umrah, or both."
"'When the liar will see Jesus, he will start dissolving like the salt in water. Then Jesus will advance towards him and will slay him; and it will so happen that the trees and the stones will cry out: '0h Spirit of Allah, here is a Jew hiding behind me.' None will be left from among the followers of the Dajjal, whom he (i.e. Jesus) will not kill."
"Then in the morning Jesus son of Mary will join the Muslims, and Allah will cause the Dajjal and his hosts to be routed, until the walls and the roots of the trees will call 'out: "0h believer, here is a disbeliever hidden behind me: come and kill him." (Ahmad, Hakem)."
"Jesus will say, "I shall strike you a blow which will not let you live." And he will overtake him at the eastern gate of Lod, and Allah will cause the Jews to be defeated.... And the earth will be so filled with the Muslims as a vessel is filled with water. The entire world shall recite and follow one and the same Kalimah (word) and none shall be worshipped except Allah."
"The Last Hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews. "
Read all about the apocalyptic mass murder and 'final solution' of the 'Master faith':
http://islamicweb.com/history/ww3.htm
#35
The "Prof" wrote: Speaking of civilian casualties, I find it even more refreshing to find that according to people like Bulldog and .com, the US army evidently did not kill any civilian.
No, perfesser, the US army does acknowledge that civilians have died in the liberation of Iraq. It went to great lengths to avoid killing civilians but acknowledges that civilians did die. Further, it acknowledges that some civilians died after the major fighting was declared over. You may have missed the apologies given by some US commanders to the families of the civilians who died, and the compensation paid to those families.
I realize that such news may burst your ideological bubble. Sorry :-)
The "Prof" also wrote: Besides, what would we do without the US protecting us from evil dictators like Saddam
Tell me, Perfesser, what is your assessment of Saddam? Do you consider him evil? And if so, who is more evil, Saddam or GWB?
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/27/2003 11:46 Comments ||
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#36
Murat wrote: If you like fighting like a man you could arrange sophisticated weapons, attack helicopters, space and radar technology and all of the rest of armoured material to the Iraqis and fight on an equal basis. Or you could leave all of those armors, helicopters etc. and fight man to man like a real man does ...
Murat, you have to know how silly that sounds. It might make a good end-of-Hollywood-movie (we've seen it before here in the States): hero puts down pistol leveled at bad guy, then hero and bad guy duke it out with furious fists and karate kicks (meanwhile heroine screams and looks pretty).
But modern warfare isn't like that. It isn't about being a warrior, it's about being a soldier. Soldiers don't do stupid things, because stupid things get them killed. And putting down your superior weapons to go mano-a-mano with the bad guys is supremely stupid.
I think it was George Patton who said (paraphrasing), "you don't win a war dying for your country, you win by making the other son-of-a-bitch die for his." That's why you don't put your weapons down. It isn't about being a warrior, it's about winning a war.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/27/2003 11:53 Comments ||
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#37
There's also the point that US or British soldiers wouldn't climb into a truck packed with explosives and career it into a Red Crescent building. Manhood's not about the strength of your equipment (no sniggers pls) - it's about how you conduct yourself.
"Prof" - you're obviously not an English master, or you'd know the definition of "unilateral" and where it's use is inappropriate. Perhaps English isn't your first language. And you should go and get some reading glasses too - where on earth do you get the idea that I, or anyone else here, don't think that the coalition caused any civilian casualties? If you can't formulate a semi-coherent argument without inventing others' opinions and distorting reality, I recommend you souldn't bother trying.
#38
About Murat do not worry about what he says because if a Unified Islamic Emirate is established there will be a civil war between the various contenders of rulership.Which are mainly the Sunni Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Egypt;The Aryans of Pakistan,Afghanistan and India;the Malays of Indonesia,Thailand and Malaysia;the Turkic peoples of Turkey,Uzbekistan and Azerbaijan; and finally the Africans of Nigeria,Somalia and Kenya not to mention the Shias of Iran and Lebanon and the Turkic group would be among the first losers. the hypothetical civil war will happen because of the inherant racism in the above mentioned peoples
I'm currently an officer in the Marine Corps. So let me educate you "Professor", on a few things having to do w/the war in Iraq: Civilians die, children die, soldiers die. We don't target civilians. Nothing goes exactly to plan. We are not perfect but we try to execute our missions to perfection. Saddam was an asshole - I know you're going to talk about Rumsfeld/Reagan supporting him in the early 80s...who gives a shit. F*ck Saddam. He's done now & that's history. He was fighting a bigger enemy for us in Iran at the time. Musharaf is also a jerk but let's take it one asshole at a time. As far as protecting you from evil dictators - no thanks necessary, that's just a bonus from your beloved American armed forces. We're sworn to support & defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic as well as carry out the orders of the president. If that means we waste Hussein then good to go. If that means we waste the Ayatollah, Kimmie, or even Mushi then also good to go. Unless you've been to Iraq or had close buddies there you don't know what you're saying. I'm sure you just get the great coverage off C-Span. If we just wanted the oil would we be putting 87 billion up front and really believe we'll be the sole recipient of oil money? Get a clue. War is not the most terrible of things - men who have nothing that they believe is worth fighting for are.
#41
Hey Fred, could you turn that honkin' long URL in B's comment above into a link? It makes the whole page a screen and 1/2 wide in Mozilla. Thanks!
Posted by: Old Grouch ||
10/27/2003 13:14 Comments ||
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#42
oops...sorry..I forgot.
Posted by: B ||
10/27/2003 13:29 Comments ||
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#43
OG - You only need the stuff in front of the "?" (question mark) - the rest is just parameter data. I tried it and it works - there isn't anything essential beyond it.
Keep this in mind when you get URLS - if you see a "?" in it, everything after that point is passed data - and may not matter. In fact, sometimes modifying a URL lets you get into surprising places - where the full URL will get you a "refused" response (for several possible reasons)... I try all sorts of modified URLS to go places that a poor / sloppy webmaster hasn't properly protected through configuration. Try everything up to and including a "/" (forward slash), for example, (particularly true of the last one in the URL) and you may find yourself browsing the site FTP-style. Heh. Enjoy! ;-)
#44
"Or you could leave all of those armors, helicopters etc. and fight man to man like a real man does,"
This kind of playground taunting is quite common among the leaders and philosophical authorities of the so-called peace movement. Rigid Hollywood/Berkeley colonial conformist that you are, you would naturally use it yourself.
It is quite similar, in its own crude way, to the "Cult of Valor" that prevailed in heavily militarized Europe during the 19th Century.
On this side of the Atlantic, George A. Custer was a noted exponent. He is justly vilified today, but few have questioned his courage or his sportsmanship.
During the First World War, this "Cult of Valor" led elderly militarists to champion the bayonet and, conversely, to condemn such weapons as submarines, tanks, and bombers for their "unsporting" nature.
The immediate result was the enormous slaughter of the time, when unprotected conscripts walked straight into a firestorm of machine guns and quick-firing artillery. A whole generation was massacred, and the effects resonate to this day; not least in your own land of Turkey.
It is a measure of the "Peace" Movement's depraved hypocrisy that it now endorses this evil and destructive relic from a well-vanished past.
Having someone inside would definitely make it easier. EFL.
A contractor supplying kitchen staff and secretaries for the Al Rasheed Hotel, the scene of yesterdayâs rocket attacks, was allied to Saddam Husseinâs security services and might have been providing intelligence to the anti-U.S. resistance, an Iraqi informant said yesterday. Time to vet the contractor list. Again.
The hotel is one of the most sensitive sites in Baghdad, serving as office and residence to top coalition officials as well as many members of the Iraqi Governing Council. Resistance fighters fired a barrage of rockets into the hotel yesterday, killing an American colonel and wounding 17 persons. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, who was staying at the hotel, was unhurt. The informant, who works with the newly trained Iraqi police, detailed his charges about a fifth column in the hotel kitchen in a letter to U.S. coalition officials almost two months ago but appears to have been ignored. The Washington Times turned over another copy of the letter to a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Armyâs 1st Armored Division yesterday and was told it would be investigated. The informant, who identifies himself fully in his letter but declined to have his name published, focuses his charges on Muslel Muhammed Farhan Al-Dilemi, 53, the manager of the Al-Tamoor Trading Co. which provides services to the hotel. Mr. Al-Dilemi "used to meet with [SaddamÂŽs] heads of security, intelligence and ... most of the Baath Party officials," the Sept. 2 letter says, adding that the walls of his office are decorated with photographs of him posing with top Baathist officials. The letter says Mr. Al-Dilemi placed several people with jobs in the hotel kitchen and staffed the hotel with a number of "beautiful secretaries" for whom he arranged sexual liaisons. That fits with being Baathist. Wonder if he also worked the UN compound in Baghdad?
 "His people are the ones who get the hotel kitchen food ... and he gets half of what they get on a daily basis," said the letter, implying that Mr. Al-Dilemi was running a food-smuggling racket. It added: "He already knows which the important floors are â such as floors 8, 9, 10 and 13 â and also that most of the Governing Council people live at the hotel." Mr. Wolfowitz is reported to have been sleeping in a room on the 13th floor when the rockets struck early yesterday. Looking more and more like Wolfie was the intended target.
The letter claims that members of the hotel management are in league with Mr. Al-Dilemi. A hotel manager â named in the report â ensured Mr. Al-Dilemi got the best contracts from the hotel during the Saddam era and is still working there, the letter says. "Who knows what information is being passed to the [pro-Saddam resistance] fighters?" the informant said yesterday, suggesting that the most recent attack might have been avoided if he had been taken seriously. "Itâs obvious that only an insider could have told the attackers that Mr. Wolfowitz was in the hotel, and that he was on the 13th floor," the informant concluded. That was disputed by Brig. Gen. Martin E. Dempsey of the 1st Armored Division, Baghdadâs effective military commander. He told reporters he believed the attack had been planned for two months and that the rockets had missed their targets because of an inaccurate propulsion system. That doesnât mean they werenât trying to hit Wolfie or someone else at the hotel.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/27/2003 2:17:34 AM ||
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Somebody fire the guy who ignored the letter. Over-looking something like this is in-exusable.
Posted by: Charles ||
10/27/2003 2:40 Comments ||
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#2
Shit.
[rant]
The "quagmire" is here (and it's domestic equivalent at Homeland Security) - and was the import of Rummy's memo. Not to hurt feelings, but shouldn't Chief Wiggles and his peers get rock-hard serious when something - no make that anything - comes in that smells this bad? I love a good toy drive and I'm not one who thinks military intelligence is an oxymoron (because it saved my ass at least a few times) and I hate the "20/20 hindsight / I told you so" shit, but there is something very wrong with this. And it doesn't matter if it's a fluke, which I don't buy at the moment, cuz flukes kill, too. I would not want to be the one who has to explain to the late Colonel's wife how and why this could happen - that should be enough motivation alone to make some hard decisions and the changes they entail.
Sorry, but this is a stupid SNAFU and needs a fucking steamroller applied. The same thorough ass kicking also should be applied to the Sunni Triangle strategy team. Enough is enough. Gloves off internally and externally.
OP, I think they need a wakeup call from someone they will understand and take criticism from. Until Rummy's people craft a roadmap of rolling heads and dynamited empires, these people need a helping hand - before they get themselves blown up. Again.
[/rant]
#3
My God! In its own way, this would be as stupid as appointing a traitor and fifth columnist like Ramsey Clark to a cabinet position. Can you imagine anyone being so stupid?
Oh, never mind.
#4
I was really puzzled about the Viet Nam and Somalia experiences.
It didn't take long before the US was hiring anybody who walked in the door without worrying about security.
It's as if they had a blind spot.
Posted by: Richard Aubrey ||
10/27/2003 9:12 Comments ||
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#5
Ah, why would they need a inside man? Everybody knows the Al Rasheed Hotel is full of juicy targets. And with the multiple rocket launcher they used, just hitting the hotel would do the trick. Now, if they had precision guided weapons, that would be different.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 11:50 Comments ||
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#6
I'm not surprised our 'military leadership'outside the actual war-fighting skills is so shaky - I saw this coming ten years ago.
Most promotions of senior officers and NCOs is based more on political rather than military behavior. I don't mean the Dem/Rep type of thing, but the bootlicking, yes-man type of politics that gets one a "good" ER, regardless of individual merit. That also includes going to the right 'school's, getting the right tickets punched, and being a go-along/get-along kind of guy. It's also appropos that the best war-fighting general the US Army has fielded in the last hundred years was George W. Patton, who was the exact OPPOSITE of most of that.
Leadership is a rare commodity, worth its weight in gold in any organization. I saw thousands of true leaders bail after the first Gulf War, the election of Bill Clinton, and the downsizing of our military by several hundreds of thousands of positions. Too many of the people that were left were the 'greasers', the slick manipulators who work not for the best of the military, but for promotion and their own personal agrandizement. I doubt Rumsfeld or Wolfowitz need a reminder - I'm sure they see it every day. It's hard to get rid of these useless pegs, but that's what needs to be done. They certainly don't need a position where high integrity and innovative thinking are necessary prerequisites.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/27/2003 12:31 Comments ||
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#7
Anyone know if the whole staff of this hotel was replaced? It was built/controlled by Saddam to be a showcase hotel for Western journalists--now we're surprised that there was an Iraqi spook in the kitchen!>!?
Rich Galen, Of the blog www.mullings.com, has taken up the challenge of the provisonal government of Iraq, and is on his way to report to duty in Bagdhad. Try and stop by and give the man a decent send off, for giving up his lucrative public relations practice and putting himself at risk for the betterment of Iraq and the US, I think he is to be applauded.
(excerpt)
Two weeks ago, I received a call from what we know as a "high administration official" asking me if I would be willing to go to Baghdad to help with the communications effort.
I, of course, said "yes" immediately.
My principal duties will involve helping Americans understand better the work which is being successfully accomplished in Iraq.
As an example, a Civil Affairs Reserve unit from Chicago was recently the subject of a Stars & Stripes article for the work they did rebuilding an elementary school which had been looted and ransacked just off the Baghdad Airport property.
On the first day of school, the children arrived in their best clothes and took turns thanking the soldiers after which the principal presented the company commander with a bouquet of flowers.
If I had been on the ground and operational, we would have taken a camera crew to the first day of school, put together a package, and fed it back to Chicagoland TV stations.
I will be going to Iraq on or about November 3 as a full-time employee of the Department of Defense for a period of between two and four months.
Obviously, normal Mullings fare would be inappropriate. Further, in accordance with the Ethics in Government Act, while I can be paid for writing generally, I cannot be paid for writing about things which have to do with the job the government is paying me for.
After consultations with the General Counselâs office at the Pentagon I am going to do the following:
I will suspend the three-day-a-week Mullings effective November 1.
I will attempt to write Mullings on a once-a-week basis. It will be more in the manner of a Travelogue - highlighting what I have seen during the week and summarizing the stories we covered that week. It will be sent through Focus Data Solutions, but without advertisements.
I will suspend subscriptions for the period I am in Baghdad; that is, if I remain in Iraq for three months, a person whose subscription was due for renewal in February would not be due until May. I will be announcing this to my readers next week, although the word is moving through Washington pretty quickly now.
I want to thank each of you for your support over the years and hope we can pick up where we left off when I return.
Since we no longer have Lt. Smash giving us the day to day info, We can expect to get a good picture of thing from Rich. Hats off to ya Rich!
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
10/27/2003 12:48:48 AM ||
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Take some pictures of the mass graves for me please. I want to blow them up and put them on signs during the Democratic Caucass here in my state. I think my message will be:
Looking for WMD's? Try the Mass Graves.
Good luck, and watch out for bullets. Seriously, watch out for bullets.
Posted by: Charles ||
10/27/2003 2:48 Comments ||
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#2
Good luck! Watch out for the bullets, and make sure you have a few bullets of your own handy.
Posted by: B ||
10/27/2003 10:53 Comments ||
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EFL:
THE Muslim holy month of Ramadan begins today but it will not automatically halt terrorism in Indonesia, according to convicted Islamic cleric Abu Bakar Bashir. We really didnât expect it to.
Described by many as the spiritual leader of terrorist network Jemaah Islamiah, Bashir explained that "jihad, which is justified by religion, is good". Asked if violence was permitted during Ramadan, Bashir told The Australian that "violence" was a term used by infidels who wanted to destroy Islam. Yup, thatâs the first thing on my mind when I wake up; "How am I going to destroy islam today?"
Speaking by telephone from Salemba prison in Jakarta, where he is serving a four-year term for subversion, Bashir explained the difference between jihad and violence.
"Islam is peaceful, but there is jihad to defend yourself, and the infidels changed the meaning into violence," he said. I see, so itâs a translation problem.
Some radical Muslims, such as JI followers, believe Western nations, and particularly the US, directly oppress Muslims in Palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq as well as indirectly oppressing Muslims throughout the developing world. They believe it is justifiable jihad for Muslims to return the attack. I"m not real clear on this whole "indirect oppression" thing.
Announcing that Ramadan would start today, Indonesian Minister of Religious Affairs Said Aquil al-Munawar said on Saturday that he hoped the holy month would be peaceful. "I also hope the Yankees will win the World Series"
Yet, the general secretary of the extremist Islamic Defenders Front, Shobri Lubis, said it was obligatory for the frontâs followers to attack entertainment venues that did not close during Ramadan. "If we canât have fun, ainât nobody gonna have any!"
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 10:51:55 AM ||
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This must be the Muslim version of what the meaning of the word "is" is.
Posted by: B ||
10/27/2003 11:19 Comments ||
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#3
Ok..Steve and Fred do too, but that's a given.
Posted by: B ||
10/27/2003 11:21 Comments ||
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#4
Yet, the general secretary of the extremist Islamic Defenders Front, Shobri Lubis, said it was obligatory for the frontâs followers to attack entertainment venues that did not close during Ramadan.
There it is again... Guys, am I wrong for REALLY starting to doubt Islam is a "religion of peace"?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/27/2003 12:18 Comments ||
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#5
Well I, for one, am certainly satisfied with Indo justice: Bashir fought the Law and the Law won. His leadership of JI has clearly been impacted and he no longer subverts or anything. I'll bet the "reporter" had to even ask prison officials for permission to interview him. That's the cruel price exacted from this peaceful soul for planning to kill then-VP Milliwatti. Barbarous! In fact, just a couple of weeks into his sentence and I think we'd all have to agree - the man has learned the error of his ways and already paid a terrible price - imposed by the vengeful Indo Justice System. I say let's go ahead and give them Hamball, as they have requested - but we'll insist that his cellphone use be restricted. No calls during Prayer Time.
This sniveling coward who tearfully begged for mercy Holy Man has made me feel nauseated touched me with his call to "violence" - whatever the Hell that really means message of Peace. Now I understand everything. Mine eyes have seen the light! And it IS our fault that this little shit wasn't gutted like a Tyson chicken Islam is misunderstood. Our bad. I think I'll go have a beer bash myself over the head with a fucking sword till I bleed like a stuck pig Jooo.
#6
Whenever I try to ponder a point of view, I try to think like that person. In this case, my thoughts made me violently ill. His thoughts might not be compatable with my infidel sensabilities... or it could have been that nasty Tyson chicken I had for lunch.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 16:52 Comments ||
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#7
Wow, I used to think that being Christian was hard, what with the direction to love my neighbor, tell the truth, etc. Just IMAGINE how tough it is to be Islamic--after all, he just pointed out that it was "obligatory" to attack movie theaters and other entertainment venues. I'd make a lousy Muslim!
The feared Jemaah Islamiah terror network is beginning to regroup and launch new attacks against Christians in Indonesia to mark the onset of Ramadan, according to new reports. Following several weeks of violence in Poso, central Sulawesi, in which 13 people died, Indonesiaâs respected Tempo magazine yesterday said the attacks were the handiwork of militants linked to JI. The Government and religious leaders have called for tolerance and peace during the holy month of Ramadan, during which observant Muslims must fast from dawn to dusk. But in Poso, where Christians and Muslims have been engaged in sporadic but bloody fighting since 1998, Islamic militants recently relaunched a "jihad against Christian groups" to mark "perang amaliah", a local tradition of waging war during Ramadan. Ainât these local traditions wonderful?
Another man was shot dead there yesterday, although police were hesitant to blame the killing on religious extremists. "In Poso this kind of incident can be common. We are not sure and it could be a business rivalry," Poso police chief Akbp Abdi Dharma said. Just another one of those local traditions.
But a former leader of the Laskar Mujahdin extremist group said he had no doubt the latest round of violence was prompted by JI. Mr Ikhwanudin, now working for an aid group in Poso, said JI militants failed in an attempt to recruit him back to the group three months before an upsurge of rioting earlier this month. "I had enough. The ones who got benefits were the elites," he said. I guess he found he can skim more money working for an aid group, itâs safer too!
Indonesia has moved extra forces to Poso to restore security. But Mr Ikhwanudin said the military must also be shifted into Sulawesi in greater numbers to quell the re-emergence of JI. "Intelligence have found out that JI leaders were here, so they have to add some forces," he said. "They (the militants) are all ready to die." OK by me.
The militants were using recruiters on Indonesiaâs main island of Java to help support the fight, he said. Running out of local cannon fodder.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 9:47:10 AM ||
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launch new attacks against Christians in Indonesia to mark the onset of Ramadan
There it is again. Ya know, I'm beginning to think this stuff about "religion of peace" is a buncha crap.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/27/2003 10:14 Comments ||
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#2
"Oh, yeah...Ramadan..Isn't thet the month where er get to beat the crap outa ya in daylight hours 'cause ya can't fight back?..."
#3
Since it seems that 70% of Muslims want to be martyrs, I think it's our civic duty to help them in their endeavor. Therefore, I think every non-Muslim should set a quota of five Muslims a day to be vaulted into Heaven as martyrs. Men between the age of 16 and 55 carrying a weapon count as two, women and small children count as one-half, unless wearing explosive belts or carrying explosives on them. Large explosive devices, rapid-fire weapons, or weapons of mass destruction are banned: all killings must be done in person, using weapons of 50-caliber or smaller. Knife kills count as two on males of the prime age group. Significant penalties will be levied against those that kill, maim, or injure non-Muslims during hunting expeditions, except where such non-Muslims are engaged in "Rachel Corrie" type activities. Under those circumstances, the non-Muslim counts as one-half a Muslim. Licenses are required, but are free. The licensee is responsible for all expenses, including weapon and ammunition, transportation, and any additional fees that may be assessed in the hunting area. Good luck, and good shooting!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/27/2003 17:43 Comments ||
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Hat tip: LGF. EFL
The U.S. Capitol Building, not the White House, was the fourth target of the Sept. 11 attackers, a German magazine reported Sunday citing results of interrogations of suspected al Qaeda leaders. Der Spiegel said also planning for the attacks on New York and Washington in 2001 began as early as 1996, but plans hatched in 1999 to use four planes in the attacks were temporarily halted because only two pilots could then obtain U.S. visas. The operation, code-named "Porsche 911" by its perpetrators, was finalized in July 2001, the magazine said. "The Porsche is ready to start," it cited Mohamed Atta, the Egyptian-born student who piloted one of the two hijacked planes that destroyed the World Trade Center, as saying.
Spiegel magazine said its report was based on transcripts of the U.S. interrogation of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the accused mastermind of the attacks, and Ramzi bin al-Shibh, the man suspected of coordinating them. "The fourth plane, according to bin al-Shibhâs questioning, should have hit the Capitol, the U.S. parliament ... U.S. authorities long suspected that it should have hit the White House. Only bin al-Shibhâs statement corrected the error," the magazine reported. The magazine did not say where it had obtained the material but said parts of the transcripts dealing with Germany had been passed to German authorities. According to Spiegel, Sheikh Mohammed first suggested in 1996 an attack on the headquarters of the CIA using a chartered jet but this was rejected by al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden as not being spectacular enough. Sheikh Mohammed later suggested a 10-plane attack, it added.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
10/27/2003 6:31:27 AM ||
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The U.S. Capitol Building, not the White House, was the fourth target of the Sept. 11 attackers, a German magazine reported Sunday citing results of interrogations of suspected al Qaeda leaders.
I seriously doubt that this revelation would bring home to Democrat lawmakers the fact that we are in a war.
The F-16 pilots who carried out the air force raid near Damascus three weeks ago said their bombs caused huge secondary explosions since they scored direct hits on ammunition bunkers. In an exclusive anatomy of the October 5 air strike, the Air Force Magazine quotes pilots and officers of the "Northern Knights" Squadron of F-16 jets describing their preparations and descriptions of the attack. The magazine also published before and after aerial photos of what Israel said was a training base used to train Islamic Jihad and Hamas terrorists, a dozen kilometers north of the Syrian capital.
The attack came on the eve of Yom Kippur and was in retaliation for the suicide bombing of Maxim restaurant in Haifa which killed 21 people. The magazine detailed how the squadron officers were quickly assembled from around the country, draw plans dusted off and precedent-setting mission accomplished in less than 12 hours from the time of the suicide bombing. "I was on my way with my family to eat at a restaurant off of the base," squadron leader Lt.-Col. Z was quoted as saying. "The guard at the door of the restaurant told me of the terrible attack in Haifa. A few moments later I phoned the squadron and told them to start making preliminary preparations in case we were required to attack." The atmosphere at the base, in the northern part of the country, became charged when aircrews and flight technicians started flowing in along with the reports of the severity of the suicide bombing. By evening, the draw plans had become operational and the Northern Knights went into war mode.
Maj. Avi Elmoiel, the squadronâs technical officer responsible for preparing and arming the fighter jets, said he got first word something was up on his beeper while eating lunch in Tiberius. "All it took was a few short telephone calls and we were able to reach all the technical teams who were at home and get them to the squadron," Elmoiel was quoted as saying. "The orders were to arm the aircraft." The IAF maintains the bulk of its aircraft in a constant state of readiness. In fact, the Northern Knights squadron was reportedly able to "deliver" the jets for this particular mission half an hour before the deadline, the bimonthly said.
As the jets were being armed and fueled, the pilots and weapons specialists were in the briefing room pouring over the maps and aerial photos of the target. Standing out among the arrows and colored marks were a number of small marks that had been circled: these indicated areas protected by surface-to-air (SAM) missile batteries. "This was a strike in a hostile area with all its ramifications," Lt.-Col. Z said. "We knew what we were getting into, an attack near the Syrian capital and we planned for all possible scenarios, including anti-aircraft fire and interceptors. We knew the targets well and took off with the knowledge that we had the best jets with the most suitable weapons for the mission."
When the squadron commander said they had the most suitable weapons, he meant every word. He told he magazine that they chose precision guided bombs instead of dumb bombs because it was imperative not to miss. "Not everyone knows this, but just 100 meters from the wadi where the training base was located were houses from a civilian village. We needed to have absolute accuracy," he said. Lt.-Col. Z, who personally led the mission, said they were concerned with the proximity of the civilians to the base, but were confident their strike would be on target.
By 3 a.m. the jets taxied on the runway and took off for what would be the first aggressive air strike deep in Syrian territory since the Yom Kippur war 30 years ago. The magazine did not say how many jets took part in the attack or give any indication that other squadrons flew cover. "There was amazing and complete silence. Not a sound," Lt.-Col. Z said, recalling the moment when they crossed the border. "All of your senses become sharpened when you enter a hostile zone, your fingers run over the various switches and prepare the weapons for that critical moment. Outside the cockpit we could clearly see the lights of Damascus. I passed on the last radio instructions to the planes in the formation and that was it." He described their attack, saying the terrorists hope of finding protection inside a deep valley proved futile as each jet dropped its bomb on target. "Bullâs-eye!," he said. "The explosions were very large and full of fire. The secondary explosions that followed a few seconds later proved that the place was an ammo dump and full of weapons."
Lt.-Col. Z dismissed foreign reports that quoted Syrian officials as saying the target had been a refugee camp. "This is simply not true. It was a legitimate target and there are films proving that his place was a terrorist training base," he said. Back on the base, the technicians were biting their nails. They were not told where the heavily armed jets had been sent to strike. It was only when the pilots returned safely and climbed down with huge grins on their faces that they found out. "Only when the last jet touched down did I feel a huge weight lift off my shoulders," Elmoiel said. "I have been part of a lot of strikes in my life, but for me this was THE attack. To see all of these jets return safely to base, their bomb racks empty and knowing that they had hit their targets, well there is no better feeling than that."
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
10/27/2003 4:15:19 PM ||
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Former President Charles Taylor should stand trial at the U.N.-backed Sierra Leone court accusing him of war crimes, Liberiaâs new leader said Monday. Well, thatâs not exactly what he said, but continue.
Gyude Bryant, who heads a newly installed power-sharing government, said the ex-warlord should leave his exile in Nigeria and face the court, which indicted Taylor for supporting a brutal Sierra Leonean rebel movement during that countryâs 1991-2002 civil war. Now for the quote.
"I think Taylor should go to the court in Sierra Leone and face the tribunal and exonerate himself from the charges made against him," Bryant said. "Itâs only honorable that Taylor do that." See, Gyude said that Chucky should go on his own to face the court and show that the allegations are false. This way he looks good to the press without worrying about it really happening. If he was serious, heâd have asked Nigeria to extradite Chuck.
Taylor is fighting the indictment issued by the U.N.-Sierra Leone court in June. Taylor took up refuge in Nigeria Aug. 11, with Liberian rebels besieging the capital and international leaders clamoring for his departure. Nigerian President Olusegun Obasanjo says he offered Taylor asylum in the interest of regional peace and will not hand him over to the court. Taylorâs lawyers are due to argue his appeal in hearings in the Sierra Leonean capital, Freetown, on Friday. His lawyers say the indictment against him is invalid because Taylor was head of state at the time of his alleged crimes and therefore immune. That defense didnât work for Germans or Japanese after WW2.
After Taylor left Liberia, insurgents lifted their siege of Monrovia and signed a peace accord a week later setting up a transitional government, meant to arrange democratic elections in late 2005. The warring parties chose Bryant, a Monrovia businessman, to head the interim government on Oct. 14. In a statement that day from exile, Taylor congratulated Bryant and said he supported his fledgling administration. Uh huh.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 3:40:55 PM ||
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If all the war crimminals lords left their posts in the new government to face chages in Sierra Leone, would there be anyone left?
Same question in Afghanistan with Dostum and company.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 16:38 Comments ||
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EFL AP from Newsday Killing the NGOâs seems to be a growing trend.
Nine Sudanese relief workers for an American aid agency were killed during clashes between warring tribes in western Sudan. Andrew Natsios, head of the United States Agency for International Development, told reporters at the American Embassy in Khartoum that the nine workers were killed a week ago while transferring aid to displaced Sudanese in camps in the countryâs western Darfur region. It was unclear who killed the workers. I suspect it was guys with guns. Letâs do ourselves a favor an give these guys the Somalia treatment.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 2:24:36 PM ||
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The Khartoum government has for nearly two decades supported the murderous activity of abbala (camel and baggara (cattle) Arabs against the Fur, Zaghawa, Berti and other tribes of Sudan's Darfur. It is the classic struggle of Arabs and their army against the African tribals who were Islamized quite late in Muslim history. It is almost certain that the AID people who were helping the displaced were killed by Arabs.
Although it is not a news article, this piece includes some a more detailed list of American citzens getting whacked on a near continuous basis than I have personally tracked. Kind of topical with the USS Liberty being current news for some. I thought the only US to Palestinean terror were isolated to Hizbellah and Abu Nidal. Looks like I was wrong.
Three Americans -- John Branchizio, Mark Parson, and John Martin Linde -- were murdered last Wednesday when terrorists in Gaza bombed the diplomatic convoy they were riding in. News accounts immediately described the attack as a first -- ââan unprecedented deadly attack on a US target in the Palestinian territories,ââ to quote the Associated Press. But Branchizio, Parson, and Linde were not the first Americans to be murdered by Palestinian terrorists. They were the 49th, 50th, and 51st in the past 10 years alone.
A few hours after their deaths, the White House condemned ââthe vicious act of terrorismââ that killed them, extended ââheartfelt condolences to the families,ââ and promised ââto bring the terrorists to justice.ââ The families of the many previous US victims of Palestinian terror might reasonably wonder why there was no such presidential concern when their loved ones were massacred.
The president did not vow to see justice done, for example, when Dr. David Applebaum and his daughter Nava died, on the eve of what was to be Navaâs wedding day, in the bombing of Jerusalemâs Cafe Hillel last month. Or when Cleveland native Alan Beer was killed in a Palestinian bus bombing in June. Or when four Americans -- Marla Bennett of California, David Gritz of Massachusetts, Benjamin Blutstein of Pennsylvania, and Janis Coulter of New York -- lost their lives in the bombing of the Hebrew University cafeteria last year. Or when Shoshana Greenbaum, a New Jersey tourist, was slaughtered in the horrific Sbarro pizzeria attack of August 2001. Or when, three months earlier, 14-year-old Kobe Mandell of Silver Spring, Md., was one of two boys stoned to death in the cave where Palestinian terrorists found them hiking. Or in April 1995, when Brandeis University student Alisa Flatow was murdered in a Gaza terror attack.
Americans have been dying at the hands of Palestinian terrorists for decades, yet the US government and media rarely if ever portray Yasser Arafat and his lieutenants as avowed enemies of the United States. The State Department does not demand the extradition of Palestinian killers of Americans, not even when the killersâ identities and whereabouts are known. President Bush has never given the Palestinian Authority the same ultimatum he gave the Taliban in Afghanistan: Hand over the terrorists or be destroyed.
Instead he issues incoherent declarations like the one he made on Wednesday -- blasting the Palestinian Authority for refusing ââto fight terror in all its forms,ââ while assuring Americans that the United States is ââworking closely with the appropriate officialsââ -- i.e., the selfsame Palestinian Authority -- to find and prosecute those responsible. As if it isnât those very officials who have been aiding and abetting such butchery all along.
To hear Bush tell it, the deeper tragedy of terrorist acts like Wednesdayâs is that they are ââan obstacle to achieving the Palestinian peopleâs dream of statehood.ââ What kind of state does Bush imagine would be created by the people who danced for joy on Sept. 11? How long is he going to keep up the pretense that terrorism represents a failure, rather than an core element, of Palestinian governance?
Arafat and the Palestinian Authority were quick to distance themselves from the murder of the three Americans. But violence against Americans is routinely celebrated by the PA. ââDuring the war in Iraq,ââ notes Itamar Marcus, the director of Palestinian Media Watch, ââthe PA actively endorsed the killing of Americans, and even produced a music video celebrating the deaths of US soldiers that was broadcast repeatedly on official PA TV.ââ (An extensive compendium of anti-American hatred in the Palestinian media is posted at www.pmw.org.il.)
For years, sermons preached in Palestinian mosques and aired on Palestinian radio and television have rhapsodized about inflicting pain on the United States. ââOh, Allah, destroy America, for she is ruled by Zionist Jews,ââ proclaimed Sheik Ikrima Sabri, the Arafat-appointed mufti of Jerusalem, in one such sermon. ââO God, destroy the Jews and their supporters . . . destroy the United States and its allies,ââ implored Sheik Ibrahim al-Mudayris in another. And from a third, Sheik Ahmed Abu Halabiya: ââHave no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country. . . . Wherever you are, kill those Jews and those Americans who are like them.ââ
A few months ago, Palestinian officials renamed the central square in Jenin after Ali Jafar al-Naâamani, the Iraqi suicide bomber who killed four US Marines at a checkpoint in Najaf on March 29. That is what Arafat and the Palestinian Authority think of spilled American blood.
There is only one rational response to the murder of Branchizio, Parson, and Linde last week: the destruction of the Palestinian Authority, a network of killers posing as a government. If that doesnât happen, this much is sure: the 49th, 50th, and 51st Americans to lose their lives to Palestinian terror will not be the last.
And they are scoping out synagoges in the UK.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 2:18:12 PM ||
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The major difference between all the earlier deaths and the last three is that these were diplomatic personnel working to bridge the gap between nations, rather than tourists, or just plain busy-bodies that get in the way. The assassination of these three diplomats should be the last straw. Unfortunately, the United States has this idiotic belief that it can create a lion and a lamb, and have them live in peace and harmony. The old joke goes, "the lion may lay down with the lamb, but only the lion will sleep". It's time to end this decades-long self-deception that the Arabs in the area known as "Palestine" are willing to live in peace with Israel. Once you quit believing that lie, it's easy to go on to the next one, that there's such a thing as a "palestinian" to begin with.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/27/2003 22:58 Comments ||
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EFL - BBC from Worldwire
A total of five directors of Zimbabweâs only privately-owned daily newspaper, the Daily News, have been arrested. On Saturday, the paper went on sale again for the first time in six weeks, after a court ruled the authorities were wrong to refuse it a licence. But police shut the newspaperâs offices and then detained Washington Sansole. On Monday, four more directors, including chief executive Samuel Nkomo, were arrested and charged with publishing without a licence. The newspaperâs legal adviser, Gugulethu Moyo, said Mr Nkomo, Rachel Kupara, Michel Mattinson and Brian Mutsau all presented themselves to the police. This is the latest setback for the Daily News, which is known for being highly critical of President Robert Mugabe and his bully boyz government. Ms Moyo had said the police were refusing to release Mr Washington until they were able to interview all the other eight company directors. "They are holding him on charges of publishing without a licence, and they are saying they will hold him until the other directors turn themselves in," she said. Senior assistant police commissioner Wayne Bvudzijena denied they were holding Mr Sansole until the others were apprehended, although he did say police were keen to interview them.
With truncheons...
The authorities said Fridayâs court ruling did not give them permission to start publishing. The paperâs lawyers disagreed, saying the ruling rendered media regulations invalid. Under controversial legislation introduced last year, all newspapers must apply for a licence through the stateâs Media and Information Commission (MIC). In September, police seized computer equipment and closed down the Daily News offices after a ruling by the supreme court that the paper was operating without a licence. The commission then denied the paper a licence, saying it had missed the deadline for applications and failed to supply the commission with free copies of the paper, as required under the law. Lesser requirements: Parade magazine - Africa version, written explanation of all Dilbert cartoons — MIC didnât understand them and easier crosswords.
In Fridayâs ruling, the judge said the commission had not been properly constituted invalidating all its actions to date. The court has now ordered the MIC to issue a licence by 30 November. Was the judge talking about the MIC or the entire government? Hope the judge owns body armor.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 10:27:30 AM ||
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Every so often some judge throws a (temporary) monkey wrench into Uncle Bob's plans. Don't any war veterans want to be judges?
Posted by: John ||
10/27/2003 10:39 Comments ||
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Hezbollah guerrillas shelled Israeli positions in a disputed southern Lebanese border area on Monday for the first time in two months, security officials said. The Lebanese officials said Hezbollah forces fired a volley of rockets and mortar shells at the Israeli military outposts of Roueissat el-Alam, al-Samaka and Ramtha inside the Shebaa Farms area. There was no immediate comment from Hezbollah or Israel on casualties or damage. The IDF will comment later today or tomorrow, as soon as the planes are loaded.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 9:20:00 AM ||
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Too bad the Iowa-class battleships still weren't in service. I'd support stationing one off the Lebanese coast for a week or so, firing 16" shells into Hezbollah camps.
#3
Debka is saying on their headline posting that the IAF already bombed the sites. Hopefully the hit more than rocks and goats.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
10/27/2003 11:15 Comments ||
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#4
"Too bad the Iowa-class battleships still weren't in service."
Back in the day, being on the receiving end of an Iowa was one of the most demoralizing attacks possible. Today, being on the receiving end of 2000lb JDAMs that *never* miss must be even more so. Today two guys on the ground w/GPS and a LRF... programing the B-2 overhead is all that it takes to get the job done.
Posted by: Dave ||
10/27/2003 11:28 Comments ||
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#5
Update: Israeli troops responded to the attack, which began at 3:20 p.m., with air strikes and 155 mm artillery fire, targeting suspected guerrilla hideouts on the outskirts of villages near the Israeli-occupied Chebaa Farms, the security officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
Two Israeli warplanes fired eight missiles on valleys and mountainous areas on the outskirts of the villages of Kfar Chouba, Hilta and Rashaya al-Foukhar, they said. Officials in southern Lebanon said Israeli artillery fire also targeted mountainous areas on the outskirts of the villages of Rashaya al-Foukhar and Kfar Hamam.
There was no immediate word on casualties. Israeli military officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Israeli fighter jets attacked Hezbollah targets in response to the attacks on the Chebaa Farms army outposts. "The jets hit several Hezbollah points," the officials said.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 12:08 Comments ||
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#6
Today two guys on the ground w/GPS and a LRF... programing the B-2 overhead is all that it takes to get the job done.
Yes, but an Iowa Class could do it one shell every fifteen seconds for DAYS. Not only that, each hit could be different - not just HE, but white phosphorous, armor piercing, mine dispensing, even chemicals and bioweapons, if we stooped to such lows. There was a Vietnam war legend that a Marine battalion commander called for indirect fire support from the Wisconsin during the war. He passed four-digit UTM coordinates to the battlewagon, only to have the gunner asked, "and on which corner of that box do you want it, sir?" A four-digit (actually, about eleven digits, depending on the map used) UTM coordinate is for a 1-meter square. The revised battleships recommissioned during Vietnam were that accurate.
My dad was in the 4th Armored Division during WWII. They went ashore at Normandy on the 11th of June, and fought until the war ended. He told me once, that when they were in the hedgerows beyond the beaches, they used battleships for tank suppression fire. Not even the vaunted Panzer Mark IV could withstand three volkswagen-sized shells packed with HE.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/27/2003 15:17 Comments ||
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EFL from a longer piece concerning Korea by Ralph Kinney Bennett.
Military forensic geologists have been poring over maps of North Korea (the best ones, incidentally, were made by the Japanese back in 1904-5 during the Russo-Japanese War) to look for geological weak points and anomalies. They study multiple radar images to get even more precise pictures of the topography. Is it possible, for instance, to discover fissures in seemingly solid rock, or badly weathered rock formations that might be entry points for earth-penetrating bombs?
Another resource that may be employed is HAARP, the High-Frequency Active Auroral Research Project, located in Alaska. HAARP employs 72 huge antennae to send signals that heat the ionosphere, thus creating a "mirror." Extremely long frequency (ELF) and very long frequency (VLF) radio waves are bounced off this temporary mirror to penetrate the earth. Anomalies in the return signals can be processed to "paint" images of underground cavities, including the geometric patterns of man-made tunnels and facilities.
HAARP data can be used to direct more focused satellite and spy plane photography and help pinpoint camouflaged or hidden tunnel entrances for future targeting. It may even help precisely target the exact point in an underground complex at which an earth-penetrating warhead should enter.
Hopefully tunnel busting will now be easier. We are near to closing the mine shaft gap.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 9:16:34 AM ||
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Well, won't this make Turgidson's [Clark] job easier. Speaking of turgid...
Posted by: Brian ||
10/27/2003 9:20 Comments ||
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#2
Can we use this technology to find caves in Afganistan or disturbed areas of desert in Iraq?
#4
Rabidfox, I used to work with eddy current and resonance test equipment on applications for bearing rings. I would think you could use this technology in Afghanistan and in the West Bank, eventually. It will take a number of years to perfect. Detailled knowledge of conditions before excavation would be extremely helpful.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 10:07 Comments ||
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#5
Silly fools, HAARP isn't a radar imaging system, it's a Death Ray! However, a series of patents owned by the defense contractor managing the HAARP project suggests that the Pentagon might indeed have more ambitious designs. In fact, one of those patents was classified by the Navy for several years during the 1980s. The key document in the bunch is U.S. Patent number 4,686,605, considered by HAARP critics to be the "smoking raygun," so to speak. Held by ARCO Power Technologies, Inc. (APTI), the ARCO subsidiary contracted to build HAARP, this patent describes an ionospheric heater very similar to the HAARP heater invented by Bernard J. Eastlund, a Texas physicist. In the patent--subsequently published on the Internet by foes of HAARP--Eastlund describes a fantastic offensive and defensive weapon that would do any megalomaniacal James Bond super villain proud.
Bwahahahaha!
Posted by: Steve ||
10/27/2003 10:07 Comments ||
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#6
Thank you, Steve. Nickolae Tesla died too soon. He would have been quite happy to know that he was right all along. I think he would have like microwave popcorn too.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 11:41 Comments ||
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#7
Ah, Tesla!!! My absolute favorite genius! What a wild, wacky, and wierd wizard! For pure fascinating reading, Tesla is my favorite science subject! And Death Rays? Ha! Child's play! Can you say ELF? I know you Navy guys can. Well there's still a backlog of Tesla ideas using ELF. Communications to wireless power transmission - hell, weather weapons may be next. The Russians sure found it "interesting" enough.
Check out Project Tesla: http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys4/prjtesla.htm
He was a trip - and the tiny amount of credit he has received thus far (many of his ideas are still beyond the ken of current science) for what we know and depend upon today in modern life is a crime, IMO.
#8
Colorado Springs hosted Tesla for awhile. Three blocks from my house there's a street named Tesla. The Tesla Museum used to be located down on Bijou Street, before it suffered severe funding cuts. Tesla is a very misunderstood man, and deserves far more credit for far more ideas than he's received. It's a shame so much of his research was destroyed by a deliberately-set fire. Strange man - a Serb, a non-muslim, and a little be more than just a tad crazy, but still a genius who deserves greater recognition.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/27/2003 13:03 Comments ||
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OP, I know you don't watch TV, but this episode of NOVA is something special. Saw it at about three in the morning with my oldest boy. He had to be awake for 24 hours before having a brain MRI. He became a Tesla fan with me that night. We got our picture taken in front of Tesla's statue at Niagara Falls.
It is called the Master of Lightning. Probably available on tape from the library.
Mark Twain loved Tesla.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 16:58 Comments ||
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#10
OK you tech guys like SH--don't we now have ground penetrating radar that can look for WMD's and other stuff underground? I recall seeing sledlike things dragged over possible crime scenes..or maybe just watch too much sci fi
#11
NMM I have seen the same device. The problem with that device for this application is that the tunnels are farther underground. The more depth you desire in any type of probing the lower the frequency and higher the power you have to use.
To perform a tunnel search, I speculate that you would need something mounted on in an aircraft at least the size of a C-130. I would expect that we are years away from practical applications.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/28/2003 7:50 Comments ||
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Talk about being delusional
In the war of October 1973, Egypt crushed the Israeli army of occupation. They destroyed the Barlief Line that was described by military experts as unparalleled in military history and ended the lie that Israel had an invincible army. This year for the first time Egypt is celebrating its victory throughout the month of October rather than just on the day of victory.
The Egyptian mediaâs strong interest in this historical event led to the uncovering of a number of previously hidden facts about the Egyptian attack which have remained unknown until this year. Maj. G.K. Molton, a former officer in the US Air Force and considered an expert and strategic military analysis, says, âThe steps taken by Egypt and Syria on the military and political planning level greatly contributed to the victory... On the 6th of October, the Egyptian Air Force bombed all command and strategic Israeli targets in Sinai using 240 planes. In the ensuing confrontation, the Egyptians brought down 50 Israeli planes in three days â this was never admitted by Israel. The Egyptian Air Force also destroyed or damaged around a quarter of the Israeli Air Force during the war... The second and third armies then crossed the Suez Canal and broke through the Barlief Line under the cover of cannon fire... All Egyptian military battalions played their roles in an exceptional manner... The October War was truly an important triumph for Egypt and the Arab world.â
Time Magazine International said of the war: âThe Egyptian soldiers crossed the Suez Canal with ease ... Within 72 hours, the Egyptian forces moved 70,000 soldiers and 70 tanks onto the eastern bank of the canal â a number that cannot be underestimated in view of the water barrier and the sand dams (of the Barlief Line). The Israeli Air Force could not destroy the crossings that the Egyptian Army constructed along the canal. Whatever Israeli planes bombed was rebuilt in record time by the Egyptian engineersâ regiment.â
Israel was totally devastated even though the Egyptian forces didnât advance into Palestine. Golda Meir saved Israel by sending out an SOS which was answered by the ever-biased American administration through the great Zionist himself, Henry Kissinger, then at the peak of power.
I say to Israel that Egypt is capable of defeating Israel â yesterday, today and tomorrow â and it is this that leads the Israelis to dedicate a prayer every day to the death and destruction of all Egyptians. Your nuclear arsenal wasnât the deterrent that stopped Egypt as you may have been led to believe. You were never in fact able to use anything other than nuclear mines â which are limited weapons â in fear of retaliation from Egypt. In addition, your crossing at the opening led by Ariel Sharon was the biggest mistake and had it not been for Kissingerâs interference in the negotiations at the 101st km on the Suez Canal, the number of Israeli soldiers who died would have been a great deal higher.
Today Sharon repeats his mistakes â causing the death of hundreds of Jews because of his clumsy policies. Will Colin Powell or anyone else orchestrate some negotiations like those on the Suez Canal to save the Israelis from the fury of the valiant Palestinian resistance? Or will he retire at the next election leaving room for the Zionists to fuel the fire in the Middle East?
Posted by: tipper. ||
10/27/2003 9:11:34 AM ||
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ref. the Bulldog comment at 9:18
Posted by: Brian ||
10/27/2003 9:17 Comments ||
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#2
By this measurement, it's been nearly 62 years since Japan's victory over the U.S. at Pearl Harbor...
#4
tu -- no, they surprised us at Pearl Harbor. It's an important distinction to make when you try to understand the overall context -- and the point I was trying to make here...
I could take the first punch against a pro fighter I met on the street, and maybe give him a bruise. But I wouldn't throw the last punch in the fight...
#6
Man! I sure do love those victories where the enemy has my army surrounded and his troops further into my territory than the starting line of the war!
Crack cocaine, it ain't just for breakfast anymore.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
10/27/2003 10:39 Comments ||
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#7
30 Years Since Egyptâs Victory Over Israel?
Uh huh. That explains why Israel gave back the Sinai in 1979.
#8
The ^*(^%*&%&^*&^ October 1973 war kept me from getting an all-expenses paid vacation to Israel from Uncle Sam. Yeah, I watched the Egyptians "destroy" Israel. What a load of crap. The Israelis had a long line of defenses spread out from the Mediterranean to the Red Sea, with a few additional outposts along the Red Sea down to Sharm al Shaik. The whole thing didn't amount to two batallions. It was a tripwire, nothing more.
The Egyptians managed to cross in three places, mainly because the Israeli Air Force was busy destroying the Air Forces of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan. As soon as the Arab air assets were destroyed, the main Israeli Army struck, and drove the Egyptians back into the Suez. The Egyptians lost almost half a million men, including more than 80,000 captured.
I have no idea who this Maj. G. K. Molton is. I spent the time between 1966 and 1991 in Air Force intelligence, and knew most of the guys that worked the Imagery side. His name doesn't stir any memories.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/27/2003 12:58 Comments ||
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#9
The Egyptian Air Force also destroyed or damaged around a quarter of the Israeli Air Force during the war...
Yep. The Egyptians destroyed a quarter of the Israeli ammunition by bravely ramming it with their planes.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/27/2003 13:52 Comments ||
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#10
Hey, anyone who can deny the Holocaust or call 9/11 a US or Jooo plot or believe that Jooos Control the World (the moonbat list is quite impressive) can certainly believe this. The Arab world could be better described as Fantasia / Fantasy Land / Fantasy Island / ??? - your choice. And nothing but having their noses rubbed in it seems to work, either. So...
#11
Actually IDF aircraft losses were pretty severe - but not due to enemy air action. Everything to do with the Soviet designed and manned (?) sam belt. Once the Egyptians got to the edge of the sam umbrella it was good nite nurse. The IAF started taking SEAD seriously about then.
#12
Old Patriot, can you (or anybody else) recommend a good book on the '73 war? I wish Oren would do one like his '67 book.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
10/27/2003 14:54 Comments ||
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#13
Rats: I enjoyed "Two O'Clock War" by Walter J. Boyne. Subtitled "The 1973 Yom Kippur Conflict and the Airlift That Saved Israel", it uses the uses the establishment of the re-supply airlift as a framework for an interesting history of events before, during, and after the war.
WASHINGTON (AP) - A Republican congressman said Sunday that opposition from the White House caused him to scrub plans to lead a group of U.S. lawmakers to the site of North Koreaâs nuclear weapons program.``At the 11th hour, the White House withdrew its support for our bipartisan visit to North Korea,ââ Rep. Curt Weldon, R-Pa., said in a statement. It said Sundayâs scheduled departure has been delayed temporarily.
KCNA, North Koreaâs official news agency, reported that the congressional delegation had notified Kim Jong Ilâs government Friday that the trip was canceled ``due to the opposition of the White House.ââ
A White House official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Bush had good discussions on his recent trip to Asia on moving forward with multinational diplomacy to persuade the North to move forward to end its nuclear weapons program. To try to keep the focus on that process, the official said, ``we believe that a congressional delegation visit to North Korea at this time would not be appropriate.ââ More engaged apathy, as Steven Den Beste would call it. Let the NKors hang.
Weldon is considered an expert on foreign policy matters, especially involving Russia, China and other former Cold War rivals such as North Korea. He had planned to visit the communist-led North from Tuesday through Friday. He led a delegation there in late May and said on his return that North Koreaâs government was ready to bargain about its weapons development program and nuclear stockpiles. See how well that turned out?
KCNA said North Korea had planned to invite Weldonâs delegation to visit Yongbyon, North Koreaâs main nuclear complex. Weldon and his congressional colleagues would have been the first outsiders at the plant since North Korea threw out U.N. nuclear inspectors late last year. The Congresscritters, unschooled in basic nuclear inspection, would have issued some statement how things looked âokâ, thus complicating our diplomacy. Hence the delay.
``Discussions continue between our delegation and North Korean officials,ââ Weldon said in his statement. ``The members of the delegation still believe that a congressional visit will positively impact relations between our two nations.
``In that regard, the North Koreans continue to make overtures that our delegation will have access to the Yongbyon nuclear facility.ââ
Secretary of State Colin Powell said Sunday any reciprocal agreement leading to written assurances against an attack on North Korea would have to be verifiable.``The president has made it clear since the beginning of this situation last year that he had no intention of invading North Korea,ââ Powell said on NBCâs ``Meet the Press.ââ ``North Korea listened to these assurances, and weâve been doing diplomatic dances for the last year.
``And in the last several days, after the president, once again, reaffirmed his position with President Hu Jintao of China and other leaders in Thailand last week, the North Koreans have responded ... to suggest they wish to pursue the ideas that the president has put on the table.ââ "Marvin! Whatâs the situation with North Korea?"
"Well Mr. Secretary, the North Koreans say they want to pursue what the President offered to them."
"Figures. Allright, what does the calendar look like?"
"Well Mr. Secretary, April, 2004 is open."
"Nope, nope, have to see the dentist then."
"July is promising."
"Canât, thatâs the summer vacation with the wife and kids."
"February, 2005 is open for now."
"Book it. Now then, how soon can the Chinese turn off the oil?"
"Before then."
"Excellent, Marvin, excellent."
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/27/2003 12:30:59 AM ||
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#1
Whadda ya say we don't hand 'em any hostages just yet, eh?
#2
A congressional delegation to NORK would be counter productive to our interests. The NORKS would just use it as divide and conquer, or a wedgie, if you please. The congresspeople need to stay the hell out. One can see how much progress has been made with the NORK talks with Elliot Richardson. The sooner Kimmie falls, the sooner the world can help the North Korean people, who have taken the brunt of this madness too long.
On an unrelated topic, I was in touch with Frank G in Santee yesterday. They had raging fires about 4 miles from his house, with ash falling. He and his family are packed and ready to evaacuate, if necessary. Good thoughts and prayers for him and his family.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/27/2003 11:16 Comments ||
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#3
Re: FrankG - Good Luck, man - I SURE hope they contain it before it reaches Santee! Take care of the family - everything else is just stuff.
Re: NorK - The President sets Foreign Policy - AP is dead right. If the President decides that the US message and position will be muddled, or that there are delegation members who need psychiatric treatment, he can and should try to dissuade them. Travel to NorK is unrestricted (amazing... see for yourself: http://travel.state.gov/nkorea.html). They have to show some good sense. A novel idea.
#4
I think the White House is assuming that Kim will try to use the trip by the Congressmen as a bilateral forum. This potentially lets China off the hook for dealing with their problem child.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/27/2003 11:48 Comments ||
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#5
You're all wrong. Weldon must've bailed after he got a copy of the NKOR menu:
Breakfast: Tree bark & grass.
Lunch: Grass and tree bark.
Dinner: Tree bark & grass.
SEOUL, South Korea (AP) - A top North Korean official involved in reconciliation efforts with South Korea has died of injuries suffered in a traffic accident four months ago, the Northâs official media said Monday. Kim Yong Sun, 69, was a top aide to North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, a member of the Central Committee of the Workersâ Party and Pyongyangâs top policy coordinator on relations with South Korea since 1992. He died Sunday after treatment in a hospital following the June 16 accident. The highways in North Korea are eight lanes wide and have virtually no traffic. How did he wreck? Wonder if he had a "Saudi-style" accident.
Kim was involved in the reconciliation efforts that followed a 2000 summit between the leaders of the two Koreas, said KCNA, the Northâs official news agency. Kim was the only senior North Korean official who sat in at the summit between Kim Jong Il and South Korean President Kim Dae-jung, whose five-year term ended in February. Inter-Korean relations flourished following the summit, but chilled in the past year when the money stopped going north over the Northâs suspected development of nuclear weapons.
The agency said Kim was awarded the ``Kim Il Sung Order,ââ the highest accolade in the communist country. It is named after the late national founder and father of Kim Jong Il. ``He strove hard to raise the international authority of the Party and strengthen the international solidarity with our revolution,ââ KCNA said. Wonder if the medal is edible?
The last time Kim Yong Sunâs whereabouts were reported by North Koreaâs state-run news media, he accompanied Kim Jong Il on a tour of farms on June 13. Might have had an intrathecal injection of lead while int he back seat of the limo.
There was no immediate official reaction from South Korea. But the South Korean news agency Yonhap quoted President Roh Moo-hyunâs national security adviser Ra Jong-yil as saying Seoul might consider sending a messenger to deliver a suitcase full of money condolences to Pyongyang.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/27/2003 12:22:12 AM ||
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#1
Looks like another defector bites the dust.
Posted by: Charles ||
10/27/2003 2:33 Comments ||
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#2
This is a popular way to get rid of a rival or end dissent. During the 80's a number of high officials met the same fate. You are correct that there are too many cars in NK and a car crash is highly suspect.
SEOUL, South Korea (AP) - The highest-ranking defector from North Korea, a man who once mentored leader Kim Jong Il, left for the United States on Monday in a trip that could further strain relations between Washington and the communist state amid tension over its nuclear weapons program. "further"?
Hwang Jang Yop, who defected to Seoul in 1997, has been invited several times to speak before a U.S. congressional hearing, he had not been allowed to travel outside South Korea until now. He has accused the South Korean government of restricting his movements.
Hwang, 81, was once chief of North Koreaâs parliament. When he came to Seoul, South Korea hailed his defection as an intelligence bonanza, while the North denounced him as a traitor. In South Korea, Hwang lives under tight security and has written books and given lectures condemning Kimâs regime as totalitarian. In an interview with the national news agency Yonhap last week, Hwang said the Washington trip was part of his campaign to ``save the North Korean people moaning under the dictatorship of Kim Jong Il.ââ ``Any struggle against the Kim Jong Il dictatorship cannot be separated from an alliance with the United States, which is the center of the worldâs democratic forces,ââ he said. Maybe he should stay in South Korea and educate the folks there.
South Korean authorities revealed few details about Hwangâs weeklong trip to Washington, except that he would attend a forum organized by the Washington-based conservative policy group, Defense Forum Foundation, on Friday. Hwang left for Washington on a Korean Air flight. Authorities kept him out of the sight of journalists at an airport outside Seoul.
Until now, South Korea had opposed Hwangâs U.S. trip, fearing his outspoken criticism of Kim in the United States would hurt Seoulâs efforts to reconcile with Pyongyang. Once ammunition for South Koreaâs propaganda war with North Korea, Hwangâs criticism of Pyongyang lost currency in South Korea as the South pushed its so-called ``sunshineââ policy of engaging the North in dialogue.
Hwang once headed the prestigious Kim Il Sung University in Pyongyang and is known as the architect of North Koreaâs guiding philosophy - juche, or self-reliance. The architect of juche? Is he also the father of white slag?
He served three times as chairman of the legislature, the Supreme Peopleâs Assembly. He was a member of the Central Committee of the ruling Workers Party, when he defected in Beijing in 1997 with an aide, Kim Duk Hong, on his way home from an academic seminar in Japan. Wonder what made him defect? I donât think it was his conscience.
Hwang said last week that his juche philosophy degenerated into ``dictatorship by a one-man leaderââ under Kim Jong Il and a ``combination of Stalinism and patriarchal despotism.ââ Wotta surprise.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/27/2003 12:18:00 AM ||
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#1
I'm absolutely shocked! NK has people going to academic seminars!
Posted by: Charles ||
10/27/2003 2:37 Comments ||
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#2
Why, certainly. How else would all those conferences on the study of the Juche idea get guest speakers?
#3
I agree, Steve, he's damned late for the dance. And his resume is hard to ignore, as well, if one is to take him seriously as anything but yet another asshole who saw the writing on the wall and acted to save his own ass. Pick his brain and give him the minimum pkg deal.
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