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2012-11-02 Africa North
Benghazi: It just gets worse: US air assets had targets in sight when countermanded
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Posted by Frozen Al 2012-11-02 21:08|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [722 views ]  Top

#1 Is this true? 'cause I recently read... maybe an alternate view of this las discussion....

That --- the SEALs knew there was no help coming and "painted" the enemy to get them to move the mortar.... taking time to break it down, reset, etc... etc.... thus buying as much time as an hour for escape for all.

And that lasing cost them their lives... cause they got spotted... seemingly, the mortar was a "true" hit...
Posted by Sherry 2012-11-02 01:07||   2012-11-02 01:07|| Front Page Top

#2 Unless countermeasures are available, I am not aware that the very small IR signal from a Laser Target Designator can be seen or detected by anyone. Using one of these devices for anything other than it's intended purpose (actual kinetic targeting) expends valuable battery life.

My knowledge is very dated, so if anyone has additional updates or corrections, please jump in.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-11-02 03:12||   2012-11-02 03:12|| Front Page Top

#3 Maybe Chinese or Russians have ways of LTD detection, Besoeker. You seriously suggest that these were available to the ragheads attackers?
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2012-11-02 03:19||   2012-11-02 03:19|| Front Page Top

#4 I read that smartphone cameras lack certain filters, which the hard boyz in Afghanistan have learned to use to visualize IR and hence spot good guy positions (can't find the link now). I don't think IR and laser wavelengths are the same, but if LTDs also emit an IR signal . . . Maybe the mortar team had a spotter with a smartphone?
Posted by RandomJD 2012-11-02 09:28||   2012-11-02 09:28|| Front Page Top

#5 If you are receiving machinegun fire from the top of a building, it automatically moves to the top of the list as a mortar or indirect fires target.

Rather not discuss #4 comment.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-11-02 09:37||   2012-11-02 09:37|| Front Page Top

#6 Random and Bosoeker,
The Taliban's use of smartphone to detect IR is dicussed by Michael Yon. LTDs DO use an IR signal.

The other interesting part of the post is its discussion of how the approval process works when an ambassador is in danger:

1) An ambassador is considered the equivelent of a 4 star general. When he is in danger everyone stops what they're doing and proceeds to rescue him.
2) The POTUS does not order people to commence rescue operations. That happens automatically. The affected commands have their contingency plans and troops on call, and they go through their preplanned tasks.
3) If the POTUS says "go ahead" the troops proceed to rescue the personnel.
4) If the POTUS DOES NOTHING the troops proceed to rescue the personnel.
5) The only way the rescue attempt can be aborted is if the POTUS gives on actual order to stand down. Apparently this had to be done several times because the troops were so anxious to go in.
6) While the SOS is culpable for events leading up to the attack, she had no chain of command role in the events of 9/11.
7) While I originally thought that simply froze when the attack happened, it appears he was actively involved PREVENTING rescue attempts from succeeding.
Posted by Frozen Al 2012-11-02 11:58||   2012-11-02 11:58|| Front Page Top

#7 Whatever frequency of light it may be, it is designed to be picked up by something. Dust/Particulates in the air would scatter that light, creating the ability to trace back.

We are also in an era where ultra high speed video recorders are not only available to the general public, but there is a TV series where people are filmed doing mundane tasks, such as playing the drums, and reviewed.
Posted by swksvolFF 2012-11-02 12:22||   2012-11-02 12:22|| Front Page Top

#8 Frozen Al: I concur. POTUS would have definately had to intervene to stop (stand down) the normal security and evacuation process. Proof of that may be found in the actions of loyal soldiers of the regime such as Panetta's (early on) gag order on DoD and the Generals. Add to that the Susan Rice now infamous road tour with the Allah video story. Rice's statements compliment by the Hildebeast and Champ's lame performance at Dover AFB, the House and Senate Permanent Select Committees on Intgelligence stale lunch and wave off by Intelligence community (IC), and lastly, the DNI, the Champ and Willard, all going silent.

Perhaps what we are seeing here is what many at the Burg and elsewhere have warned of for years. We have an out of control, unlimited budget organization, which answers to no one controlling the action.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-11-02 12:33||   2012-11-02 12:33|| Front Page Top

#9 Or/and, Besoeker, perhaps there are real reasons (that we would agree with) for the actions, inactions and story-telling.
Posted by Glenmore 2012-11-02 14:08||   2012-11-02 14:08|| Front Page Top

#10 Yes Glen, there are bound to be "real reasons". Obfuscating, manipulation, and lying to the Congress and the American people are not the methods which should be used to avoid disclosure.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-11-02 14:18||   2012-11-02 14:18|| Front Page Top

#11 "...the attack is renewed, and while the mortars aren’t “painted” with lasers, some of the attackers are — as “warnings not to fire.” Three mortar shells then hit the roof, killing Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods."
Posted by newc 2012-11-02 15:20||   2012-11-02 15:20|| Front Page Top

#12 Newc,
Your article is a discussion of the CIA's "Friday document dump". It does a pretty good job of absolving the CIA. However as the article says:

What is missing from this account? Any details at all about the military or White House’s situational awareness and decision-making.
Posted by Frozen Al 2012-11-02 16:43||   2012-11-02 16:43|| Front Page Top

#13 Well, This is CIA. They left the door open on CINC. It is time for the Officers that have been appointed to do something about this CINC decision.

It's time during Command and Staff to hold utter silence until the Chief cracks, and he will crack.

Hell, Hillary and He watched their Friend die on live feed and she was quite torn up about it.

That article debunked some of my questions but am hoping that I no longer have to shake the tree on this.

I would want to see good Officers tangled in this thing when it all meshes out. After all, we all swore the same Oath.

The matter is important both for the security of all staff serving overseas and contingency planning.

Sometimes with a Commander like him, it's better to just ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

Just totally Un-FN-reliable.
Posted by newc 2012-11-02 20:53||   2012-11-02 20:53|| Front Page Top

#14 Would not want to see Good Officers tangled up in this. I watched Petraus choke back and deliver the Administrations line about the video, and it was far from convincing. They set him up as fall guy, but it's going to backfire, and hard.

Posted by newc 2012-11-02 20:55||   2012-11-02 20:55|| Front Page Top

#15 Good work on your web page, newc. Thank you.
Posted by trailing wife 2012-11-02 21:23||   2012-11-02 21:23|| Front Page Top

#16 Twitter is ever more valuable by the week too TW. I'm pimping out Rantburg there. Thanks for putting up with me. I may have lost my mind if not for this forum.
Posted by newc 2012-11-02 22:27||   2012-11-02 22:27|| Front Page Top

#17  I may have lost my mind if not for this forum.

Quite a few of us here could say that, newc dear, including me. And a hearty welcome to all your twitter friends!
Posted by trailing wife 2012-11-02 23:18||   2012-11-02 23:18|| Front Page Top

23:31 trailing wife
23:30 Frank G
23:30 trailing wife
23:18 trailing wife
23:12 trailing wife
22:54 Redneck Jim
22:27 swksvolFF
22:27 newc
21:32 trailing wife
21:23 trailing wife
21:20 Anguper Hupomosing9418
21:11 CrazyFool
21:03 Ptah
21:02 trailing wife
20:55 newc
20:53 newc
20:22 Procopius2k
20:10 Alaska Paul
20:07 DarthVader
18:54 Shipman
18:53 Frank G
18:48 Shipman
18:45 Shipman
18:40 Shipman

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