Article

2007-08-07 Europe

Der Spiegel expose': Germany Is Ignored!

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by mrp 2007-08-07 10:47|| || Front Page|| [4 views ] Top

#1 How do you say "schadenfreude" in German?

Posted by Rambler">Rambler 2007-08-07 16:04|| 2007-08-07 16:04|| Front Page Top

#2 Better be careful, though. Remember what happened last time the Germans were pissed off . . .

Posted by The Doctor 2007-08-07 16:05|| 2007-08-07 16:05|| Front Page Top

#3 The Germans do not matter because they have destroyed their military and their courage. German conscripts are the worst troops I have EVER worked with - they are far different from those in the 80's.

The worst part is - the NCO Corps has rotted in PC-ness and babying of the troops.

Best weapon in the world is useless without a fighting spirit behind it.

Its to the point where if Germany did seriously try to fight, with the exception of some GSG and special units, they'd get their asses handed to them. THe old joke about a Vietnamese rifle is close to beign true in Germany:

For Sale - One slightly used Bundeswehr assault rifle; Never been fired, only dropped once.

IMHO, Man for man, the Dutch and French have better troops.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-08-07 16:51|| 2007-08-07 16:51|| Front Page Top

#4 If I remember correctly, the German conscripts are a) unionized and b) go home on weekends.

boggle

Posted by lotp 2007-08-07 16:59|| 2007-08-07 16:59|| Front Page Top

#5 Germany had behaved like a kindly sheepdog, gently driving the herd in one direction, keeping everyone nicely together and making sure that no one strayed too far from the herd. But now it's becoming clear that there could very well be a few wolves lurking in the herd.

Because, you see, all the nations of the West should be docile sheep herded about by Germany because it has such a moral and righteous point of view on things.

Spit.

Posted by lotp 2007-08-07 17:11|| 2007-08-07 17:11|| Front Page Top

#6 OK, so I'm at a conference a couple months ago and talking with some Germans involved in their defense establishment. And the senior German guy says that their way of staffing the military is best because it's important to keep the military connected to the people.

A worthy goal, I agree, but how to maintain professionalism and skills? His response? They are far less important than insuring that the military's attitudes and values closely match popular culture.

Says it all .....

Posted by lotp 2007-08-07 17:58|| 2007-08-07 17:58|| Front Page Top

#7 Well, we didn't ignore Germany circa '44-'45. You want that kind of attention again? I think its better for both of us, if we keep it the way it is now. The attention getting Germany was just too expensive.

Posted by Procopius2k 2007-08-07 19:05|| 2007-08-07 19:05|| Front Page Top

#8 P2k, it isn't a massive semi-secret German re-armament program that concerns the world today, it's the huge disarmament draw-down that is drawing attention For instance, this 2004 BBC article.

Excerpt:

Mr Struck said that on top of the closures and spending cuts, the army would be cut by 35,000 troops to about 250,000.

That "250,000" is the entire military establishment, with 50,000 personnel being 18-25 yo conscripts. Germany spends about 1.5% of its GDP on defense, which makes Deutschland, for all practical purposes, a US military dependency.

Posted by mrp 2007-08-07 19:57|| 2007-08-07 19:57|| Front Page Top

#9 lotp - exactly the attitude I met working with them. The few NCO's that were any good were resigned to being custodians of these untrained mob of spoiled brats. How far they have fallen.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-08-07 21:38|| 2007-08-07 21:38|| Front Page Top

#10 Germany does want to exert its influence on world events, but its role as a medium-sized power precludes it from being able to assert this claim.

Also the rest of the World still remembering the last time.

Posted by gromgoru 2007-08-07 23:10|| 2007-08-07 23:10|| Front Page Top

#11 The German "neurosis" is very old. Back before the German states were unified, Germans were made fun of around Europe as ignorant rural peasants, despite Prussia, the most rural of all.

And this really bugged the Germans, especially after unification, when they rapidly industrialized and developed the world's preeminent chemical and other industries.

Even after WWI, the Germans were still very self conscious about being looked down upon, and this was very useful in the rise of Hitler, as he emphasized German pride in a way that they wanted to hear.

For their part the French very actively tried "to keep Germany down", even openly proposing that it be remade into an agricultural nation.

And national pride can go a long way, for good or ill.

Unlike France, however, Germany has had a long run with a strong leader, electing a long tradition of stuffed shirts and mediocritans.

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-08-07 23:15|| 2007-08-07 23:15|| Front Page Top

23:35 twobyfour
23:27 gromgoru
23:26 Anonymoose
23:23 gromgoru
23:23 gromgoru
23:15 Anonymoose
23:10 gromgoru
23:05 gromgoru
22:59 gromgoru
22:32 trailing wife on vacation
22:10 3dc
22:09 Zenster
22:03 Pappy
21:48 Pappy
21:42 twobyfour
21:39 lotp
21:38 OldSpook
21:36 OldSpook
21:31 OldSpook
21:29 Pappy
21:15 Pappy
21:04 Pappy
20:50 Jonathan
20:42 mrp