Article

2007-08-07 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Fred 2007-08-07 00:00|| || Front Page|| [5 views ] Top

#1 Another good officer sacrificed to PC.

Posted by gromgoru 2007-08-07 06:11|| 2007-08-07 06:11|| Front Page Top

#2 Officer cashiered? No reference to Pat Tillman? How really serious and newsworthy can this possibly be.

Posted by Besoeker 2007-08-07 08:04|| 2007-08-07 08:04|| Front Page Top

#3 Another good officer sacrificed to PC

Getting punished for your troops screwing up and shooting a 14-year old girl (Palestinian or not) during an operation is not being 'sacrificed to political correctness'.

Then again, I'm responding to someone who thinks assassinating their own prime minister was a good thing and that the goyim should just shut up...

Posted by Pappy 2007-08-07 10:36|| 2007-08-07 10:36|| Front Page Top

#4 PC or not, he violated a direct lawful order, and apparently has issues with command. Not a good thing for an officer in any army.

I know there is sone leeway for stuff like this with SF untis, but given that they are selected for good judgement and then trained and drilled to the max, leeway for them is justified. Not so for a line officer. If the ROE porevent you fronm accomplishingthe mission, you do what you can then draw back and report up the chain of command that the ROE prevented successful compltion due to unacceptable risks.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-08-07 11:33|| 2007-08-07 11:33|| Front Page Top

#5 From the article:

The landmark Supreme Court ruling banning the use of human shields was prompted by an outcry over the army's widespread practice, in a 2002 West Bank offensive, of forcing Palestinian civilians to approach fugitives' hideouts.

The army, which launched the offensive following a rash of suicide bombings, defended the practice at the time, saying it kept civilians out of harm's way and encouraged terrorists to surrender peacefully. And it says it never allowed troops to use civilians for cover during battles.

Human rights groups say the use of civilians in military operations has dropped sharply since the Supreme Court ban, but has not disappeared.

Using human shields is, of course, forbidden by the Geneva Conventions. However, I need some convincing that forcing civilians to act as negotiators is NOT forbidden. On the one hand, one has the principle that civilians are not soldiers, and so should not be pressed into roles reserved for soldiers. On the other hand, there IS the overarching meta-principle that loss of civilian life is to be minimized, so if the practice actually DOES minimize civilian losses, then it should be made an obligation of the occupied populace per the Geneva Conventions.

In fact, after some reflection, it DOES seem that the GCs, while laying obligations on armies, does not also lay obligations on occupied peoples to merit GC protections. There are probably reasons why this is so, but it IS ripe for abuse, and addressing abuse is something the GCs are notoriously silent about.

Posted by Ptah">Ptah 2007-08-07 11:45|| http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]">[http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2007-08-07 11:45|| Front Page Top

#6 The GCs are simply out of date.

Posted by wxjames 2007-08-07 11:50|| 2007-08-07 11:50|| Front Page Top

#7 However, I need some convincing that forcing civilians to act as negotiators is NOT forbidden.

So do I. With the majority of Palestinians supporting the Hamas terrorists, they become complicit in all acts of terrorism against Israel. Marching randomly selected adult Palestinians up to their compatriots' hideouts in order to obtain close-in positions really doesn't bother me a whole lot. Hamas and all the other terrorist groups intentionally target and kill Israeli children, so preventing loss of innocent life really doesn't come into play here. Palestinians need to be reminded of the consequences to their acts at all turns. Having them get shot up by over-eager terrorists is a good way of doing that.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-08-07 14:10|| 2007-08-07 14:10|| Front Page Top

#8 Getting punished for your troops screwing up and shooting a 14-year old girl

The sturdy voice of stupidity and ignorance. This officer, and the least of his men, are worth a million of you.

p.s. You're also a liar. To wit: "Then again, I'm responding to someone who thinks assassinating their own prime minister was a good thing "

Posted by gromgoru 2007-08-07 18:57|| 2007-08-07 18:57|| Front Page Top

#9 The sturdy voice of stupidity and ignorance. This officer, and the least of his men, are worth a million of you.

It's the voice of someone who's commanded troops.

So the troops under his command didn't screw up and shoot a 14-year old girl? Or it's okay for a CO's troops to screw up and shoot a 14-year old girl as long as she's isn't the 'right sort'?

p.s. You're also a liar. To wit: "Then again, I'm responding to someone who thinks assassinating their own prime minister was a good thing "

Someone once asked you if you knew Yigal Amir. You replied "not personally". How does one interpret that?

Also, in all the time you've been at Rantburg, you never made one condemnation of the act.

Posted by Pappy 2007-08-07 21:29|| 2007-08-07 21:29|| Front Page Top

#10 It's the voice of someone who's commanded troops.

In urban warfare? In warfare at all?

Someone once asked you if you knew Yigal Amir. You replied "not personally". How does one interpret that?

That depends on the interplay between genes & environment.

Also, in all the time you've been at Rantburg, you never made one condemnation of the act.

You got me!

Posted by gromgoru 2007-08-07 22:59|| 2007-08-07 22:59|| Front Page Top

23:35 twobyfour
23:27 gromgoru
23:26 Anonymoose
23:23 gromgoru
23:23 gromgoru
23:15 Anonymoose
23:10 gromgoru
23:05 gromgoru
22:59 gromgoru
22:32 trailing wife on vacation
22:10 3dc
22:09 Zenster
22:03 Pappy
21:48 Pappy
21:42 twobyfour
21:39 lotp
21:38 OldSpook
21:36 OldSpook
21:31 OldSpook
21:29 Pappy
21:15 Pappy
21:04 Pappy
20:50 Jonathan
20:42 mrp