Article

2006-11-23 Europe

The Ultimate Turkey May Ground Airbus Permanently

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Posted by .com 2006-11-23 05:23|| || Front Page|| [11135 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 A year ago, Airbus could do no wrong. It had outsold its American rival for the fifth successive year, and was looking forward to putting more clear blue sky between itself and Boeing.

Twelve months on and Airbus is in a mess.

European socialism snatches yet another resounding defeat from the elusive jaws of victory. The raucous laughter emanating from SeaTac is nothing short of deafening.

One word: Dreamliner

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-11-23 05:50|| 2006-11-23 05:50|| Front Page Top

#2 The superlatives abound. It is wider than a football pitch and almost as long, four times the height of a double-decker bus

Assembled with allen wrenches and 1498 widths of hex sockets the 380 is a marvel of modern science. Metric, English and Rule of Thumb are all brought together in this magnificent monument to heavier than air flight. The tea cart alone weighs 58 Stone and is powered by a light weight 2 cycle supercharged diesel engine capable of moving the set along at 10 knots down the 2 rod wide aisles and producing 500 gallons of boiling water an hour. The future? Hardly, it'll be here in 2 years!

Posted by Shipman 2006-11-23 06:19|| 2006-11-23 06:19|| Front Page Top

#3 £166 million GBP is NOT $471.5 million USD

Posted by Bright Pebbles in Blairistan 2006-11-23 06:25|| 2006-11-23 06:25|| Front Page Top

#4 Well, on the north island it is. The difference (471.5 - 317.6 = $153.9M) is VAT.

Posted by .com 2006-11-23 06:35|| 2006-11-23 06:35|| Front Page Top

#5 How much is that in Guilders?

Posted by Shipman 2006-11-23 07:11|| 2006-11-23 07:11|| Front Page Top

#6 From industry talk.

A380 will NOT be dropped.
Nor will A380F.

Further, the EU is probably going to heavy subsidies again (it does now, but at a rate that keeps the US govt. from giving Boeing tons of aid). Unlike the past, this will be more for locals, as closing factories and killing jobs in the EU is very non-non!

If this happens, look for funding to Boeing and of course a repeat of 10 years ago when there was major fighting between US and EU regarding funding of major OEMs by govts.

Posted by bombay">bombay 2006-11-23 10:27|| 2006-11-23 10:27|| Front Page Top

#7 Unlike in the past, refers to the last time EU subsidies were tossed around to Airbus like candy, it was for The Grand Notion of the EU.

This time it is not so much about the EU, but more so about the individual state interests in the EU. Germany doesn't want to cut, France doesn't want to cut.

Last time was, Our wonderful EU needs a wonderful bird. This time, My Germany needs Jobs, My France needs Jobs, etc.

However, the result is the same, govt. subsidies and sparking off the same to Boeing.

Posted by bombay">bombay 2006-11-23 10:35|| 2006-11-23 10:35|| Front Page Top

#8 Didn't President Bush say recently that American business isn't competing with companies, it's competing with countries?

Posted by KBK 2006-11-23 11:17|| 2006-11-23 11:17|| Front Page Top

#9 The problem with the 380 was not the wiring, it was with the engineering and with the management. The development of this airframe was completely mismanaged and the EADS management inditments show this out. Now they will suck off every taxpayer in EU to pay their debt and bring them back.

Posted by 49 Pan 2006-11-23 12:05|| 2006-11-23 12:05|| Front Page Top

#10 I'll say it again, whatever else Boeing is, it is the only company in the world that knows how to reliably and profitably build big airplanes. It is the sole survivor in the competitive US marketplace, McDonnell Douglas and Lockheed having left the business). That ruthless competition led to excellence whereas the Airbus European collaboration model has produced a political bureaucracy administering an international WPA program. There is nothing that Airbus can do to pull out of this death spiral and I, for one, never really feel safe flying on an Airbus product and avoid them whenever possible.

Posted by RWV 2006-11-23 13:18|| 2006-11-23 13:18|| Front Page Top

#11 Imagine a couple cruise ships worth of passengers embarking/debarking around airport primetime at existing airports. Could you imagine the line in front of the TSA maze. Imagine an airline that requires a hub route system to support movement of passengers to and from these behemoths, just as some ~~formerly~~ profitable airlines discover little non-hub dependent Southwest eating their shorts. Anyone remember when Polaroid finally go around to instant video just as another technology, VHS, hit the market? Too late with old technology. On the other hand it seems to be a better than usual welfare program for engineers. Anymore expensive than keeping five or more National Laboratories funded and busy in America?

Posted by Procopius2k 2006-11-23 13:45|| 2006-11-23 13:45|| Front Page Top

#12 Stop with all the handwringing! Just this past week, Airbus announced they had the 380's weight problem solved; so what if it is still 2 years ( and growing) late?
And they also announced they were going to build the A350 WB out of carbon fiber panels riveted to metallic frame members, unlike the entirely composite barrel sections Boeing is using for the 787. So what if that will drive up parts count and force the use of titanium rivets? Aluminum and steel corrodes very quickly in the presence of carbon without any sort of insulating material / sealant. So we know that the highly trained and subsidized Airbus work force and those of the airlines that choose to force these albatrosses on their workforce will never use the wrong fastener, and cause the landing gear, for instance to leave the airplane prematurely.
Biggest laugh though is from the Airbus marketing guy, who was extolling the benefits of the carbon panels: he said that whenever a panel was dented, it could be easily replaced, unlike the Boeing barrels. I have never seen a carbon panel 'dent' when hit by something. Shatter, yes, but more imprtantly, subsurface delaminations of the various plies develop as a result of the impact. This delam grows until it fails catastrophically. I don't think i want to fly in any Airbus airplane with that mentality.

Posted by USN,Ret 2006-11-23 14:39|| 2006-11-23 14:39|| Front Page Top

#13
Assembled with allen wrenches and 1498 widths of hex sockets the 380 is a marvel of modern science. Metric, English and Rule of Thumb are all brought together in this magnificent monument to heavier than air flight. The tea cart alone weighs 58 Stone and is powered by a light weight 2 cycle supercharged diesel engine capable of moving the set along at 10 knots down the 2 rod wide aisles and producing 500 gallons of boiling water an hour. The future? Hardly, it'll be here in 2 years!

Phrench Translation

Posted by Foghorn Leghorn">Foghorn Leghorn 2006-11-23 15:30|| 2006-11-23 15:30|| Front Page Top

#14 So what if that will drive up parts count and force the use of titanium rivets? Aluminum and steel corrodes very quickly in the presence of carbon without any sort of insulating material / sealant.

Extremely interesting little tidbit. Thank you.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-11-23 15:32|| 2006-11-23 15:32|| Front Page Top

#15 The really good foodfight will start when it's announced that the "logical" way to cut costs will be to build the A380 in one place-France,where the assembly is scheduled to be done. Germany will get the future A350. This has already been floated and the Germans weren't happy,to say the least. But if a massive subsidy is required otherwise,well...

Posted by Stephen 2006-11-23 16:45|| 2006-11-23 16:45|| Front Page Top

#16 RWW, I was on an airbuss that lost its wing pilon cone on landing, it stayed on hanging by the grounding strap. My faith in EU building aircraft is limited to say the least.

Posted by 49 Pan 2006-11-23 17:17|| 2006-11-23 17:17|| Front Page Top

#17 Woops. RWV - sorry bout that

Posted by 49 Pan 2006-11-23 17:18|| 2006-11-23 17:18|| Front Page Top

#18 Relevant Statistics:

Length: 882 ft 9 in long
Width: 92 ft 6 in wide
Weight: 46,328 tons
Propulsion: Two 16,000 HP engines
Two bronze triple blade props

Oh, sorry, I thought we were discussing the RMS Titanic.

Posted by DMFD 2006-11-23 17:31|| 2006-11-23 17:31|| Front Page Top

#19 Plane size sounds like a terrorists wet dream - a wonderful terror magnet.

Posted by borgboy 2006-11-23 18:23|| 2006-11-23 18:23|| Front Page Top

#20 Re #3 (Bright Pebbles)
The article is from New Zealand.
The $471.5 million is NZ Dollars.

Posted by Chuck 2006-11-23 19:04|| 2006-11-23 19:04|| Front Page Top

#21 Plane size sounds like a terrorists wet dream - a wonderful terror magnet.

With a full plane, they could kill a hostage an hour and still drag out the negotiations Arab-style for weeks.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2006-11-23 20:22|| 2006-11-23 20:22|| Front Page Top

#22 Zenster: Basic galvanic action / reaction; if you consult a table that lists various metals in molecular activity; the closer together they are, the more compatible they are.
The best way to ensure isolation is to lay up a full layer of fiberglass on the side(s) that the other metals contact. But in the drive to cut weight, I expect the full ply to be replaced with little patches; that increase the opportunity for workers to miss-lay or completely omit them, and then the electrolysis starts when a bit of moisture gets into the joint.
That is one of the reasons for the manufacture of carbon structures with all detail parts co-cured so it becomes one complete part.

Posted by USN,Ret 2006-11-23 22:17|| 2006-11-23 22:17|| Front Page Top

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