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2006-11-17 Europe
Europe is Finished, Predicts Mark Steyn
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Posted by anonymous5089 2006-11-17 08:50|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [427 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Regretfully, not fast enough.
Posted by gromgoru 2006-11-17 09:45||   2006-11-17 09:45|| Front Page Top

#2 At this point, America doesn't have the will to do this. So, Fortress America (great game too) will become a reality and we will become more isolationist.
Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader  2006-11-17 10:35||   2006-11-17 10:35|| Front Page Top

#3 Yes it is a wonderful game...which my copy of was 'kept' by Laurence of the Rats...he lets me play it when I go down to visit him.

But yes, the Fortress America is a bad strategy, far better to do as the Roman's did and fight battles outside of your home country.
Posted by Silentbrick">Silentbrick  2006-11-17 11:03||   2006-11-17 11:03|| Front Page Top

#4 America Alone is a good book. It reads fast and Steyn painlessly imparts painful facts about the decline of the West. The main thesis is that the West with the exception of America is depopulating. Birth rates are well below replacement levels, in some cases less than half. Aging shrinking western populations spell doom for Europe. In Russia, 70% of pregnancies end in abortion. By 2050, Europe as we know it will be gone. Steyn is a master of snark, but this is a very depressing book.
Posted by RWV 2006-11-17 12:32||   2006-11-17 12:32|| Front Page Top

#5 Fortress America (which I still have never lost to anybody 'Brick, hahaha) as a strategy would only work if it was complimented with a full on Roman "mess with us and we destroy your entire nation and crucify anybody that looks at us sideways" attitude.

But the US doesn't even seem to want to defend itself or even fight our enemies at all, so what we'll get is head down turtle strategy.

That turtle route leads directly to Belmont's Three Conjectures, either by the US or Russia/China after we're gone.
Posted by Laurence of the Rats">Laurence of the Rats  2006-11-17 13:08||   2006-11-17 13:08|| Front Page Top

#6 "Pre-modern Islam beats post-modern Christianity."
Well put. And this is the group that we should appeal to for a coalition in out struggles.
Hogwash.
Posted by wxjames 2006-11-17 13:38||   2006-11-17 13:38|| Front Page Top

#7 I just don't think it is accurate to say that we (Americans) aren't willing to fight for our beliefs/culture. I think that we just haven't seen enough pressure yet. Until the man in the street sees his way of life under threat, why would he want to fight? Unless you read these doom and gloom blogs a person wouldn't have a clue as to the subtle erosions already taking place. The people who say we've already given up the fight are no better than the global warming fear mongers. Yes, there is a problem, is it an imminent threat? No it's not, so most people are just going to keep on living their lives. When a real, tangible threat to our way of life manifests, we'll fight. Guaranteed.
Posted by AllahHateMe 2006-11-17 13:54||   2006-11-17 13:54|| Front Page Top

#8 When a real, tangible threat to our way of life manifests, we'll fight. Guaranteed.

I'd say it is "real" and "tangible" right now. Problem is, the MSM is hiding the reality from the majority of the population. By the time the threat is so severe that the MSM can no longer hide it, it might be too late for anything other than a 3rd Conjecture type response.

That to me is the biggest crime of all. That the MSM is apparently, willingly complicit in trying to engineer our demise is shocking. I would like to see all of them decorating the trees and light poles. I believe that things are far worse than anyone realizes, and it could all go over the edge in the blink of an eye. JMO.

Posted by Mick Dundee 2006-11-17 14:54||   2006-11-17 14:54|| Front Page Top

#9 ...we'll fight. Guaranteed.

What if there is very little left to fight with? Seems to me we are being led by the nose into financial ruin. Imagine, bled white, exhausted, broke and with a fractured society, we're done.

Nothing left to do but push the button, if only to make sure our antagonists won't be in a position to take us when we are down.

Posted by Mick Dundee 2006-11-17 15:00||   2006-11-17 15:00|| Front Page Top

#10 Not too doom and gloom, Mick. The plus is, those of us who see what's REALLY going on are prepping and have all the weapons.
Posted by BA 2006-11-17 15:20||   2006-11-17 15:20|| Front Page Top

#11 Not too doom and gloom, Mick. The plus is, those of us who see what's REALLY going on are prepping and have all the weapons.

I'm not talking about individual situations, I'm armed to the teeth as well. I'm talking about being exhausted as a nation, by all these half-ass battles we're fighting. It will bleed us dry, and then when the main event is sprung, the only thing left will be annhilation of the enemy and probably the world. That is if we have the will to do it.

If it ever gets to the point where citizens have to defend themselves, it is over. Individuals can last only so long. "United we stand, divided we fall", actually means something! Seems to me the Dems/MSM/Commies (same-same) have done their dirty work all to well. Also, it is obvious that a significant percentage of the Western world wishes to commit suicide, for the whole civilization.

Also, all of this talk in the various threads about "W" knows this, or "W" knows that...etc. etc. is hogwash! "W", knows exactly what his advisors tell him, and considering that CYA and PC are the names of the game in government employment, you can bet he does not have the unvarnished truth.

Couple that with his own "born-again" religious bias and all that it includes and it goes a long way to explaining his behavior.

Until "WE the PEOPLE..." clean house, the slide will continue, and it is accelerating.

I got to step away, my nose just started bleeding from a BP spike.

Posted by Mick Dundee 2006-11-17 15:34||   2006-11-17 15:34|| Front Page Top

#12 my nose just started bleeding from a BP spike.

That's actually a good thing! Better a bleed in the nose, than a bleed in the brain. Seriously.
Posted by Pholing Glineque9578 2006-11-17 15:41||   2006-11-17 15:41|| Front Page Top

#13 The plus is, those of us who see what's REALLY going on are prepping and have all the weapons.

Don't forget bottled water, canned food, rice, grain, whiskey, and a sizable stash of porn for when it gets lonely.
Posted by Pholing Glineque9578 2006-11-17 15:45||   2006-11-17 15:45|| Front Page Top

#14 That's actually a good thing! Better a bleed in the nose, than a bleed in the brain. Seriously.

Indeed, it actually saved my mother's life once.
Posted by xbalanke 2006-11-17 17:11||   2006-11-17 17:11|| Front Page Top

#15 I believe that things are far worse than anyone realizes, and it could all go over the edge in the blink of an eye.

Also, all of this talk in the various threads about "W" knows this, or "W" knows that...etc. etc. is hogwash! "W", knows exactly what his advisors tell him, and considering that CYA and PC are the names of the game in government employment, you can bet he does not have the unvarnished truth.

Couple that with his own "born-again" religious bias and all that it includes and it goes a long way to explaining his behavior.


Too right, Mick! Especially your last sentence. I've been shouting this ever since I got here and have taken routine beatings over it. Bush's religious crack pipe forbids him to declare another fundamentalist creed as invalid. His obsession with religiosity is solely responsible for it taking five long years before the word "Islamofascism" was finally spoken, instead of it being trumpeted on 9-12-2001.

Couple this with the "CYA and PC" bullshit by goverment careerists and you have a truly toxic brew. Per your first sentence, a bare few terrorist nuclear attacks upon American soil definitely could make everything "go over the edge in the blink of an eye". Our economy would be set back a decade, if not decades, or even near-permanently crippled.

The lessons of WWII have been mostly forgotten as Americans have enjoyed several decades of the good life. Pols are driven by the polls and no one has the ostiones to call a spade a spade. In view of the monstrous outside threats we face, America's security may be at its most fragile ever in history.

The entire MME (Muslim Middle East) must be put on notice that they will all perish should greivous harm come to America. The ball must be lobbed firmly back into their court vis combating terrorism and reforming Islam. All we should be doing is holding a nuclear sword of Damocles over their collective heads as they scurry to rectify decades of perfidy and murderous conniving.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 17:23||   2006-11-17 17:23|| Front Page Top

#16 We can't win. Best to get used to it and learn new yo-yo tricks or collect quality pRon while you can. It's hopeless.

Or incinerate every living thing on the planet except Iowa. Hard choices. Difficult times. Best to put your money in ammo and quality dried food. Remember your pets while working your survival plans. Many tropical fish need a warm tank and special food, cats do well on their own, dogs are iffy, tend to pack up and kill without a strong hand. Watch out for angry stray whippets.
Posted by Shipman 2006-11-17 17:24||   2006-11-17 17:24|| Front Page Top

#17 President Bush is a Methodist, guys. Granted, he did convert from the Episcopalian faith of his parents, but last I heard the Methodists weren't considered one of Christianity's more extreme sects.
Posted by trailing wife 2006-11-17 17:34||   2006-11-17 17:34|| Front Page Top

#18 President Bush is a Methodist, guys.

What part of "born-again" and the mentality that usually follows it do you not understand?

Zenman, thanks for the kind words. If it isn't obvious, I've reached my own personal breaking point. FIVE years of dithering on SO many issues and fronts by the Commander in Chief Cowboy and the GOP playing politics as usual has put me in a foul mood.

The GOP "had" a mandate and the majority and they pissed it away by being greedy spineless idiots. They all deserve hemp neckties.

L8R

Posted by Mick Dundee 2006-11-17 18:29||   2006-11-17 18:29|| Front Page Top

#19 Back at 'cha, Mick. Five years without significant progress, either by moderate Muslims or our politicians has seen my breaking point pass as well. Either we start offing the top tiers of Islamic clergy right away or we off Muslims by the millions in a few years.

I'd wager there's a few in our military who understand the equation, but this sort of new math is lost on our idiot politicians. These assholes are rearranging porkbarrel deck chairs on the Titanic while they let it sail into Arctic waters.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 19:47||   2006-11-17 19:47|| Front Page Top

#20 Wow, Zenster, I thought you were all for "The" Final Solution, but now it turns out you have two: ethnic cleansing of Muslim clergy OR ethnic cleansing of Muslims in general. How many years are you going to go goose stepping all over Rantburg before you realize that genocide is the last resort, not the first?
Posted by Darrell 2006-11-17 20:01||   2006-11-17 20:01|| Front Page Top

#21 Contempor LEFTISM-SOCIALISM, includ LIBERALISM/LIBERAL SOCIALISM, stands for nuthin except Gubmint > SOCIE UTOPIAN HUMANISM = NEW FEMINISM/PASSIVISM. Radical Islam = GOD/FAITH-BASED REGRESSIONISTS-PRIMITIVISTS, among othewr premises-labels. * " ISLAM > "PRINCIAPL SUPPLIER OF [FUTURE] NEW EUROPEANS" > most academics + snalysts classify or categorize Arab-Semitic-Aryan peoples of Asia Minor + North Africa as CAUCASIAN/CAUCASOID, i.e. NON-EURO WHITES. Iff one wants to be ETHNICIST/RACIST/PROFILIST about it, WOT > then, can be surreally ascribed as a[MOSTLY]INTRA-CAUCASIAN WAR, BTWN NOTHERN HEMISPHERE WHITE "HAVES", versus CENTRAL-SOUTHERN HEMIS "HAVE-NOTS" [HAVES vs HAVE MORES?], NORTHERN GLOBAL ELITES vs CENTRAL-SOUTHERN GLOBAL "WHITE TRASH"??? WIthin this narrow scope, OSAMA & Co. are fighting A RACE WAR WHOSE OUTCOME INCLUDES A RADICAL SHIFT FROM WHITE NORDIC EUROPEANS TO WHITE ARABO-SEMITICS/"ARYANS". TINA TURNER > WHATS GOD GOT TO DO WID IT!?
Posted by JosephMendiola 2006-11-17 20:11||   2006-11-17 20:11|| Front Page Top

#22 "The preservation and expansion of freedom are today threatened from two directions. The one threat is obvious and clear. It is the external threat coming from the evil men in the Kremlin [Mosques] who promise to bury us. The other threat is far more subtle. It is the internal threat coming from men of good intentions and good will who wish to reform us [ie, Zenster]. Impatient with the slowness of persuasion and example to achieve the great social changes they envision, they are anxious to use the power of the state to achieve their ends and confident of their own ability to do so. Yet if they gained the power they would fail to achieve their immediate aims, and in addition, would produce a collective state from which they would recoil in horror and of which they would be among the first victims. Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it."
Posted by M.Friedman 2006-11-17 20:19||   2006-11-17 20:19|| Front Page Top

#23 Darrell, you just can't help wetting yourself in your haste to slander me, can you? When you grow up and learn how to participate in constructive forensic debate, I'll let you know.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 20:21||   2006-11-17 20:21|| Front Page Top

#24 Slander? Just pointing out your homicidal mania, that's all.

Constructive forensic debate? Your blathering genocide all over this site all day long, every day for months, is more like a six hour Hitler or Castro speech than a constructive forensic debate. You don't debate: you preach deportation of citizens and genocide.
Posted by Darrell 2006-11-17 20:29||   2006-11-17 20:29|| Front Page Top

#25 Darell, it's people like you, not Zenster, making that what you so abhor almost innevitable.

The "Last Resort" is a fable, it i so remote in your scheme of things that it becomes meaningless.
And the enemy knows it. And they will bleed you dry by thousands of papercuts, so when the time comes for the "Last Resort", you may not have any will left, or if you have, it will be the "Last Resort" for everybody--cornered, lashing out, you will press the button indiscriminately, seeing no way out.
Posted by twobyfour 2006-11-17 20:47||   2006-11-17 20:47|| Front Page Top

#26 BS, twobyfour. I have no problem with controlling the border, restricting immigration, deporting enemies of the state, attacking terrorists, or even bombing hostile states. But I'm sick and tired of Zenster's constant genocidal spew. He pushed me over the tipping point a few weeks ago when he advocated deporting ALL Muslims. He would deport parents and children who are citizens, have lived in this country their whole life, and have never advocated violence against anyone. He paints with a broad brush.
Posted by Darrell 2006-11-17 20:55||   2006-11-17 20:55|| Front Page Top

#27 Zen is working on the premises of known knowns. As far as I recall, he always qualifies the conditions that lead to certain step he advocates.

Point in case: "The entire MME (Muslim Middle East) must be put on notice that they will all perish should greivous harm come to America."
Posted by twobyfour 2006-11-17 21:05||   2006-11-17 21:05|| Front Page Top

#28 Good point indeed. He would have them all perish -- the whole Muslim Middle East -- for the terrorist acts of a few. Hundreds of millions of innocents killed. Are you ready to sign on to the greatest genocide in history as retribution for an act of a few dozen terrorists, twobyfour?
Posted by Darrell 2006-11-17 21:17||   2006-11-17 21:17|| Front Page Top

#29 Darrell, when Zenster first came here, I thought he was a troll. I still have my doubts. Some people are remarkably persistent (Aris being a case in point, who still reads the Burg BTW).
Posted by phil_b 2006-11-17 21:21||   2006-11-17 21:21|| Front Page Top

#30 Perhaps we could confine the two of them to a single thread and let them fight it out. Fred could charge admission to cover their bandwidth costs.
Posted by Darrell 2006-11-17 21:25||   2006-11-17 21:25|| Front Page Top

#31 Darell, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Zenster advocates a very big, credible stick. That is all.

The people that don't know any better, I forgive them, But you, who has some comprehension (albeit it seems rather limited) what we are up against, your (and likeminded people) refusal to use practical leverages will get more people killed than otherwise.

It is not few dozen terrorists. In an interview two years ago, Soddy Prince Nayef declared the mere 10% of muslims are raving radicals and that the West is making too much of it. He probably put the figure much lower than is the reality known to him, as is the Arab custom.

Now, do the math, just based on Nayef figure.
Posted by twobyfour 2006-11-17 21:32||   2006-11-17 21:32|| Front Page Top

#32 And what of the 90% that are not raving radicals? Are you eager to kill them with Zenster's "very big, credible stick"? It's not credible unless you'd do it, twobyfour.

"a very big, credible stick. That is all."
That is not all. That is genocide on a scale that makes WWII look like a fist fight.
Posted by Darrell 2006-11-17 21:41||   2006-11-17 21:41|| Front Page Top

#33 Not to mention it wouldn't work at all.
Posted by Pholing Glineque9578 2006-11-17 21:43||   2006-11-17 21:43|| Front Page Top

#34 Zenster, as one who grew up in Iowa and has travelled much of the world, I find a lot to like in the "incinerate everything but Iowa" approach.
Posted by RWV 2006-11-17 21:52||   2006-11-17 21:52|| Front Page Top

#35 Sorry, but I see Zen's point on this. He's the canary in the mine.

At some point, most of America will get fed up with this shit and decide something has to be done. The gloves will come off.

Not incinerate them all, so much as, do something now, or we WILL incinerate them all.
Posted by bombay">bombay  2006-11-17 21:59||   2006-11-17 21:59|| Front Page Top

#36 Anyone see the Borat movie?
Posted by Pholing Glineque9578 2006-11-17 21:59||   2006-11-17 21:59|| Front Page Top

#37 Zenster left an hour and a half ago -- no doubt in search of "constructive forensic debate".
Posted by Darrell 2006-11-17 21:59||   2006-11-17 21:59|| Front Page Top

#38 And what of the 90% that are not raving radicals?

They're the "raving radicals" raving support group, money pipe and supply chain.

They've stated unambiguously that it is us or them. Choose which side you want to be on. Also, look up the word implacable, it might provide you with a clue. Although I doubt it.

One more thing, how would you deal with a primitive tribal culture that practices a death cult and has sworn to exterminate you or enslave you? Just askin'.

Posted by Mick Dundee 2006-11-17 22:00||   2006-11-17 22:00|| Front Page Top

#39 how would you deal with a primitive tribal culture that practices a death cult and has sworn to exterminate you or enslave you?

That's easy. I would hold my nose when passing by one of them.
Posted by Pholing Glineque9578 2006-11-17 22:03||   2006-11-17 22:03|| Front Page Top

#40 Zenster is not the canary in the mine. He is the poison gas. He will kill indiscriminately. Re-read #22. Good night.
Posted by Darrell 2006-11-17 22:03||   2006-11-17 22:03|| Front Page Top

#41 They bomb St. Peters Cathedral.
We bomb 10 major mosques, Mecca, Qom, and several others.

They nuke one of our cities.
We nuke 10 of their cities.

In time, they'll get the math.

But, if we say we'll do it, before they try, thinking we are paper tiger (and I think they are already at that point and it is not if but when), it may be that they'd think twice.

That is the big stick I think is on Zenster's mind.

Sounds crude? Sure it does. But that is the language they understand.

Once they launch major attacks, with some success, the 10% will swell to 60% or more.

Sure, you could always find 10 righteous ones after that, provided that you'll be alive to take count.

The thing is, I fucking don't want to be right. But I am watching a future train wreck in motion and so far it is going precisely as I expect, given the circumstances--dealing with it by hope that it will run out of fuel midway, despite that we know it has more than enough for the whole trip.
Posted by twobyfour 2006-11-17 22:04||   2006-11-17 22:04|| Front Page Top

#42 D, you don't get it. Simple then. There is a tipping point, where what was once unthinkable, is now rational.

When we get attacked on a WMD scale, it will tip. That's it.
Posted by bombay">bombay  2006-11-17 22:05||   2006-11-17 22:05|| Front Page Top

#43 Not to go back too far, but from #15:

Bush's religious crack pipe forbids him to declare another fundamentalist creed as invalid. His obsession with religiosity is solely responsible for it taking five long years before the word "Islamofascism" was finally spoken, instead of it being trumpeted on 9-12-2001.

You're completely wrong here. A true Christian Fundamentalist would shout from the rooftops that ALL other religions are "invalid." I know, I am one. But, to the larger picture, Zen, I think you're the one smokin' crack here. I wish you'd get off your "Bush's Fundamentalism" kick. The lack of calling a spade a spade for the President has nothing to do with his religious beliefs, but the P.C. atmosphere in Washington. Yeah, he would've had a LOT more sympathy had he called it what it is on 9/12/2001, but he didn't. Has NOTHING to do with his religious beliefs, cause if it did (assuming he's a "True" Fundy), he'd be casting them all to Hell right now.
Posted by BA 2006-11-17 22:13||   2006-11-17 22:13|| Front Page Top

#44 Right decent of you, twobyfour. I really appreciate your efforts in fighting such willful opacity. Some people just aren't on speaking terms with the truth. Speaking of which ...

phil_b, after years of participation here, your inability to decide says more about you than it does me.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 22:14||   2006-11-17 22:14|| Front Page Top

#45 11 minutes, Zenster. I knew you'd come back as soon as I said good night. It speaks volumes about you.
Posted by Darrell 2006-11-17 22:18||   2006-11-17 22:18|| Front Page Top

#46 I wish I could agree with you, BA, but I don't, nor do others here as well.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 22:18||   2006-11-17 22:18|| Front Page Top

#47 I was walking my animal you insufferably smarmy git.

He will kill indiscriminately. Re-read #22.

I will ask that you DO NOT try to infer that your own postings (i.e., # 22) are somehow part of my argument. That is a significant ethical breach.

I'll also note that the moderators here at Rantburg rightfully take an very dim view of advocating genocide. Somehow, my posts are not very often the target of their censure. How is that?

I find a lot to like in the "incinerate everything but Iowa" approach.

That's up to you, but please do not attribute other peoples' posts to myself, RWV. That was Shipman's snark and had nothing to do with my own position.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 22:32||   2006-11-17 22:32|| Front Page Top

#48 Zen, in this case (Bush -- ROP), I have to side with BA. I think it is a case of PCism and has little to do with religion. Or to be more precise, it is PCism that creeped also into the religious sphere for the last 50 years. I have a kinda keen sense for that, being from former commie environ, and have seen its corrosive effects right smack obvious.
Posted by twobyfour 2006-11-17 22:32||   2006-11-17 22:32|| Front Page Top

#49 I wish I could agree with you, BA, but I don't, nor do others here as well.

That's your perogative, Zen. And, in fact, in the realm of us getting pushed too far, I'm actually with ya. I was just pointing out the fallacy in calling Bush a FUNDY and then trying to blame that FUNDY-ness on WHY he would NOT call Islamofascism what it is. That argument doesn't make sense at all, because if he were TRULY FUNDY, he WOULD be calling, not just Islam proper, but ALL other religions "invalid." That's what FUNDY means, just look at Ahmadinijad and the Paleos. They not only hate the Jooos and Christians, but spew hatred and mock those religions as well. Personally, as an American, I could care less what you believe. But, you cross a line when you try and FORCE me to believe what you do, like the jihadis.

And, twobyfour's point about P.C. sneaking into the Church as a whole and religion in general is equally as valid.
Posted by BA 2006-11-17 22:38||   2006-11-17 22:38|| Front Page Top

#50 Zenster, you are leaping to false assumptions. I did not post #22, as any moderator can tell you. Furthermore, you clearly don't understand what #22 is saying about you.

"Either we start offing the top tiers of Islamic clergy right away or we off Muslims by the millions in a few years."
That's #19 -- your words. Sounds like "ethnic cleansing" to me

Posted by Darrell 2006-11-17 22:42||   2006-11-17 22:42|| Front Page Top

#51 Geebus Darrell!

Please google "either ... or", and particularly peruse the segments with emphasis on logical meaning--a hint...the two statements in that sentence are mutually exclusive.
Posted by twobyfour 2006-11-17 22:57||   2006-11-17 22:57|| Front Page Top

#52 No problem, twobyfour. On that count we can certainly agree to disagree. You summed up much of my argument rather well and I would like to thank you for it.

As I've said before. I neither relish nor look forward to the nuclear annihilation of the MME. What becomes increasingly clear is that, absent any authentic and genuine reformation of Islam, there will eventually be perpetrated an Islamic atrocity of such jaw-droppingly horrific magnitude that there will be little choice but to retaliate with total war.

In its current state, Islam can no more avoid this than make rivers run backward. Left unrestrained, their radical factions will precipitate the Muslim holocaust. Be it, Israel's Sampson Option, our own nuclear response or the Asian superpowers unhesitating reply after our own demise, Islam's current course is guaranteed to bring about its own destruction.

The mere existence of Israel's Sampson Option speaks volumes towards this point. Why would they even have such a terrible capacity held in abeyance without ample justification? Ahmadinejad's threat to convert his entire nation into one vast suicide bomber for the sole sake of perpetrating genocide upon the Jews is a pluperfect illustration of the larger picture I am attempting to demonstrate.

Fanatical death-obsessed Islamists would think nothing of all Muslims ascending to a post-incineration paradise if it were the cost of destroying the West. This is the warped but inescapable illogic of the terrorist mind. The promise of wholesale slaughter, on either side means exactly ZERO to the radical Islamists.

This is why I continue to advocate that we blanket the MME with DVD copies of a highly realistic Middle East version of "The Day After Tomorrow", showing the aftermath of nuclear retaliation that the radical Islamists threaten to bring about. Only this one measure has the possible potential to persuade enough Muslims whereby the masses might rise up and begin deposing their violent jihadists. Few other avenues, save for a demonstration of might in some unoccupied area, would carry sufficient impact necessary to intitate the reform that might avert the Muslim holocaust.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 22:59||   2006-11-17 22:59|| Front Page Top

#53 BA, my associations about Bush's religiosity are more along the lines of Mick's comments regarding the "born again" syndrome, whereby (as I see it) all religion is suddenly sacrosanct because of its potentially redeeming power.

Again, I'll certainly concur as to the tremendously poisonous influence of PC mentality. When it first started cropping up many years ago, I immediately compared it (long before other articles doing the same) to George Orwell's "Newspeak" as found in 1984. The PC mentality's ability to constrict free thought and deconstruct factual history is an outright abomination. A glaring point in case is the 9-11 memorial statue showing the "Iwo Jima" style flag-raising. The PC groups demanded that, contrary to reality, the firefighters be shown as a racially mixed group even though they were nothing of the sort. It is this sort of revisionism that makes me puke. The abject refusal of our media and government alike to portray Islam as the immense peril it is today elicits a similar response.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 23:08||   2006-11-17 23:08|| Front Page Top

#54 Darrell, post # 22, coming so quickly upon the heels of similar accusations by you seemed to be your doing. I withdraw the accusation.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 23:11||   2006-11-17 23:11|| Front Page Top

#55 Fanatical death-obsessed Islamists would think nothing of all Muslims ascending to a post-incineration paradise if it were the cost of destroying the West.

Think nothing of it? Hell, they come right out and state it. That is what they want. I watched a grainy copy of Glenn Becks "Obsession" on YouTube today. Anyone that sees that cannot escape the conclusion that we are in serious trouble.

Indoctrination begins at a very early age and continues nonstop throughout a Muslims life. They become rabid, and there is only one way to deal with a rabid creature.

Islam, delenda est!

Posted by Mick Dundee 2006-11-17 23:16||   2006-11-17 23:16|| Front Page Top

#56 Mick's comments regarding the "born again" syndrome...

And that is exactly what it is, a syndrome, it has nothing to do with Fundamentalism. One can be "born again" and not be a fundamentalist.

Posted by Mick Dundee 2006-11-17 23:22||   2006-11-17 23:22|| Front Page Top

#57 Please google "either ... or", and particularly peruse the segments with emphasis on logical meaning--a hint...the two statements in that sentence are mutually exclusive.

Um, not necessarily. The Logic Book says so.
Posted by Pholing Glineque9578 2006-11-17 23:22||   2006-11-17 23:22|| Front Page Top

#58 Pholing Glineque9578 , why don't you see what happens when you try to wrap your mind around my post # 52. As always with your type, I note a complete and total lack of postulated alternatives.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 23:26||   2006-11-17 23:26|| Front Page Top

#59 Zen, no need to thank me. I am trying to clarify my position that does have quite a bit overlap with yours. Remember, I was called genocidal maniac a while ago too, based on simple pronouncement that "Islam has to go".

It was immediately misconstrued as "Kill all muslims".

So, it's the same problem like in your case--some posters here tend to infer/inject their interpretation into others' positions. Or rather misinterpretation may be better suited here.

Instead of asking "How do you propose to do that?" they scream "Genocidal maniac!"

Does it look like PC programming can claim more than a marginal success rate? Yewbetcha.
Posted by twobyfour 2006-11-17 23:30||   2006-11-17 23:30|| Front Page Top

#60 You are confused and you contradict yourself, Zenster. Can you wrap your mind around that?
Posted by Pholing Glineque9578 2006-11-17 23:32||   2006-11-17 23:32|| Front Page Top

#61 I think all three of you need to quit back-slapping eath other and notice how few other commenters want to get wrapped up in your threads. They disagree WITHOUT BEING UNPATRIOTIC, but don't need the hassle. Think about it. I'll take your flames all you want, thx
Frank
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2006-11-17 23:33||   2006-11-17 23:33|| Front Page Top

#62 Oh yeah, nice, Frank. With 20 minutes left??
Posted by Pholing Glineque9578 2006-11-17 23:39||   2006-11-17 23:39|| Front Page Top

#63 Can you wrap your mind around that?

Not coming from the likes of you.

Frank, please feel free to interject a bit earlier next time. Thank you for playing.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 23:43||   2006-11-17 23:43|| Front Page Top

#64 twobyfour, it seems that in debate about counter-terrorism the "genocide" card is going to be a substitute for the "racist" card as played by pro-Islam and liberal types.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 23:47||   2006-11-17 23:47|| Front Page Top

#65 You never know, Zen, but to be sure you'd have to off them too.
Posted by Pholing Glineque9578 2006-11-17 23:48||   2006-11-17 23:48|| Front Page Top

#66 Zenster - You need to get off this "holding court" thingy you've got going in your head. You made a similar comment to me the other day, something about "thank you for dropping by". That's some silly shit - and self-defeating since it guarantees it won't happen again.

Otherwise, please carry on, folks - it's an interesting thread.
Posted by .com 2006-11-17 23:50||   2006-11-17 23:50|| Front Page Top

#67 by the way. This isn't a "timed" game. Yours' and my own comments are there forever, feel free to flame on tomorrow's thread. Notice though, that a large part of RB's commenters are shying away from any discourse with you. Wonder why? Think about it....

you know my comments over the last 5 yrs. Am I unpatriotic? Dhimmi? A PC Puss? Wonder then why I find a disagreement with your recent statements?
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2006-11-17 23:50||   2006-11-17 23:50|| Front Page Top

#68 You never know, Zen, but to be sure you'd have to off them too.

While I do not, there's people here who do.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 23:55||   2006-11-17 23:55|| Front Page Top

#69 While I do not [advocate such], there's people here who do.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 23:56||   2006-11-17 23:56|| Front Page Top

#70 .com, there's only one person who holds court here and his name is Fred.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-11-17 23:57||   2006-11-17 23:57|| Front Page Top

#71 Le bingo.
Posted by .com 2006-11-17 23:57||   2006-11-17 23:57|| Front Page Top

23:59 trailing wife
23:57 .com
23:57 Zenster
23:56 Zenster
23:56 trailing wife
23:55 trailing wife
23:55 Zenster
23:55 Frank G
23:51 DanNY
23:50 Frank G
23:50 .com
23:48 Pholing Glineque9578
23:47 Frank G
23:47 Zenster
23:43 Zenster
23:42 twobyfour
23:41 trailing wife
23:39 Pholing Glineque9578
23:37 Zenster
23:35 JosephMendiola
23:33 trailing wife
23:33 Frank G
23:32 Pholing Glineque9578
23:31 Zenster
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