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2003-07-28 Britain

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Posted by Dar 2003-07-28 11:47:03 AM|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Forgot to give credit: Hat tip to Drudge.

B-a-r: Judging from previous reads, you'd likely be charged with assault. I'll have to dig up case references, which I'll post.

Posted by Dar 2003-7-28 12:02:16 PM|| 2003-7-28 12:02:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 "...initiative announced by Tony Blair and Home Secretary David Blunthem a valuable asset they can easily sell."

Shurely shome mishtake (Ed.). It's David Blunkett, and I don't think the government have any plans to make a huge profit by flogging the man on the used ministers market anytime soon.

Seriously though, there have been a few cases which have come to light of muggers and their "victims" becoming confused, and many more cases of the police arresting victims who have defended themselves even long after their assailant has scarpered. Defend yourself in the UK at your peril. Too many streets are safe only for police and muggers.

That said, I spent three years as a student in London from '94 to '97. I've only ever felt uneasy about engaging in the sort of pub crawls Lucky mentions, in smaller towns and cities of the UK. London's a remarkably safe city for its size, in my personal experience.

Posted by Bulldog 2003-7-28 12:34:01 PM|| 2003-7-28 12:34:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 There is a reason why "Make my day, punk" can't be translated into proper German.

Our laws are rather similar I'm afraid, although I have never heard of a case like the British one. Courts seem to rule in favor of the victims. If you are mugged you may beat the shit out of the mugger. But once the mugger is "defenseless" you can't just go on to "teach him a lesson". There is a fine line.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-7-28 1:24:53 PM|| 2003-7-28 1:24:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Bulldog: I understand "reasonable force" as a concept, but find it difficult to see where it is applied consistently in British law. Per the anecdote above, even pepper spray/mace is illegal to use, and the use of a non-lethal and non-persistent irritant against a violent attacker screams "reasonable force" to me.

I can also understand "excessive force" and am familiar with the three requisites (Means, Opportunity, Intent) in the US without which lethal force is considered excessive. However, it seems even when you are threatened with lethal force in the UK, you can not use lethal force in your own defense, and I would love to have a clear definition of "reasonable force" for such a scenario. That scenario takes place several times a year (over 700 times a year, from the stats I've seen), and British citizens deserve the right to defend themselves appropriately.

Posted by Dar 2003-7-28 1:29:07 PM|| 2003-7-28 1:29:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Check over at Samizdata.(sorry I dont know how to link.) Tony Martin has been released from prison today.

Posted by debbie 2003-7-28 4:37:22 PM|| 2003-7-28 4:37:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 You know, generally I don't think joe blow owning a gun is a good thing. But anytime I find a good enough reason to ridicule the US and their obsession with guns, a story like Tony Martin's pops up and I just shut up.

Posted by Rafael 2003-7-28 5:47:21 PM|| 2003-7-28 5:47:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Rafael: I wouldn't call it an obession with guns--we're obsessed with protecting ourselves and our loved ones, and guns are the best means of doing so.

Posted by Dar 2003-7-28 11:13:31 PM|| 2003-7-28 11:13:31 PM|| Front Page Top

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