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2007-12-19 Home Front: Politix
Ron Paul's latest silly statement
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Posted by Mike 2007-12-19 09:06|| || Front Page|| [11127 views ]  Top

#1 I've paid comparatively little attention to Dr. Paul, and am certainly no supporter, but neither condemn him wholesale as many do - often based on the looniness of some of his supporters.

All that said, this crack of his is shooting from the hip at best, and oddly bitterly divisive at worst - as Mike's comments note.

Even after all that, there's the admirable nugget left over of a presidential candidate quoting Sinclair Lewis - quirkily charming in its own way.
Posted by Jack Snusogum1397 2007-12-19 11:48||   2007-12-19 11:48|| Front Page Top

#2 What's a Steve Doocy?

He's the a**brain that sees a cross in the mullions of a window. Bejeebas these folks shouldn't be let out loose.

Is every intersection of two straight lines a religious symbol now?
Posted by AlanC 2007-12-19 12:02||   2007-12-19 12:02|| Front Page Top

#3 in the back, it's a windowpane but it also looks a lot like a cross

Oh, for fuck's sake. Sometimes a windowpane is just a windowpane, ya know?

How long until candidates are required to only appear in front of plain gray backgrounds?
Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford  2007-12-19 12:06||   2007-12-19 12:06|| Front Page Top

#4 So now what? I don't vote for Huckabee, the sky turns black and rains blood?
I can't figure out who's loonier here. Steve Doocy (whoever he is) for seeing a cross or Ron Paul for taking the bait.
Next time, Mike, just have a talking Jesus head floating around back there talking up ths campaign so the nuts don't have to figure all this subliminal stuff out. It hurts their heads...
Posted by tu3031 2007-12-19 12:34||   2007-12-19 12:34|| Front Page Top

#5 “So Ron agrees with the Rosie O’Donnell view of Christianity, eh? Kinda goes hand-in-hand with the anti-Semitisim.”

In light of the fact that two of Ron Pauls’ brothers are ministers of the Christian faith, I doubt he shares very much with O’ Donnells’ view of Christianity. Also, to imply that anybody who acknowledges that AIPAC exerts tremendous influence in American Politics is somehow issuing a coded metaphor for a Jewish World Conspiracy is shallow and naïve. I will agree that the Sinclair Lewis quote in response to a totally innocuous political advertisement strikes me as odd. But then again, Ron Paul strikes as an odd person.
Posted by DepotGuy 2007-12-19 12:56||   2007-12-19 12:56|| Front Page Top

#6 to me its the messenger I find offensive.

still waiting for anyone to clue me in on why o'shucksabee carries water.

paul, if that is the best you got, shaddup and go home. Goodbye.
Posted by swksvolFF 2007-12-19 12:59||   2007-12-19 12:59|| Front Page Top

#7 Those of you saying it's just a windowpane, have you seen the commercial, do you really think the editors and such didn't notice the resemblence? It's a political primary, EVERYTHING in a commercial is noticed and approved.

Huckabee got hours of free advertising because of that cross/windowpane. It was done during teh holidays so that complaints about it come up as anti-Christian which gives him votes in Iowa. This whole thing was a well planned political move. I don't like Huckabee but this cross/windowpane was a brilliant move, and I will give credit where credit is due.
Posted by rjschwarz 2007-12-19 13:04||   2007-12-19 13:04|| Front Page Top

#8 Looks like a bookcase to me. Yall are a bit late on hearing about the cross "controversy". It first came to light 2 days ago.
Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues  2007-12-19 13:18||   2007-12-19 13:18|| Front Page Top

#9 Paul has a point, though he didn't explain it very well. That is, scoundrels of all varieties tend to use religion and faux patriotism as smokescreens to get away with something else.

Think Bill Clinton carrying that huge Bible out of a church for a photo op, as if he cared one whit about what was written in it.

And most Democrats pretending that they like and respect "the troops", while attacking, undermining and endangering them every way they can. Pretending to be patriotic while sneering at America.

A politician citing religion, especially, raises a big question that makes Americans nervous.

Much like if you are pulled over for speeding by a policeman who for some reason remarks that he is a very good Christian and prays a lot. What had been an uncomfortable exercise of getting a ticket from a government official, is suddenly scary in a "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" sort of way.

Their religion or beliefs isn't part of their job, and their bringing it up as part of their official role sends up, or should send up, all kinds of warning flares.

Even going back to the founding of the US, with respect to God, unlike in Europe, the founding fathers did not claim that God ordained US law or government organization. God didn't write the US constitution, James Madison did.

And while they didn't deride God, they said that people wrote the laws, so people can change the laws.

To make matters worse, religion isn't standardized, and neither is morality. So for a politician to claim he is religious and moral doesn't say anything. He could have the religion and morality of a Taliban, a Thugee, an Episcopalian or a Satanist, whichever is worse.

It wasn't particularly wise, as well, to quote from Sinclair Lewis, though most people have never heard of him. To the point, perhaps, but still not a very wholesome character. Even though Elmer Gantry reflected some of the Evangelism of the time, it is a stretch that it might lead to fascism, any more than Pat Robertson might today.
Posted by Anonymoose 2007-12-19 13:23||   2007-12-19 13:23|| Front Page Top

#10 Anonymoose, I disagree. It would take years to really get to know a politician. We need bulletpoints on who they are so we have some basis of judging. Religion is one of those bullet points and how they treat it (hide behind the Bible or beat folks over the head with it) says a lot about who they are.

Personally I think some reputable (cough cough) journalist should interview every candidate specifically on this issue and really nail down what they think, why they think it, and how they think that would affect policies in their administration. Thus avoiding any hiding or misrepresentation by others.

One of the reasons I won't vote for Huckabee was because of his answers regarding religion and the Bible in the debates.
Posted by rjschwarz 2007-12-19 13:35||   2007-12-19 13:35|| Front Page Top

#11 The whole idea that Christianity will be the source of fascism in this country, if we ever get it, is nonsense in a hot air balloon. As Mark Steyn is fond of saying, the long dark night of fascism that's supposedly ever descending on Christer-dominated AmeriKKKa always seems to land in secular, rationalist, humanistic, enlightened, post-religious Europe. There's a good reason for that.
Posted by Mike 2007-12-19 14:11||   2007-12-19 14:11|| Front Page Top

#12 Jesus Christ on a skate-board. I looked at the ad again and, yes Decon, it is a bookcase. It's not an f******g cross.

Why the hell all this crap about "subliminal" messages (which don't work anyway) and not one word about the f*****g CHRISTMAS TREE!!!!!!!

Mr. Schwarz you sound as paranoid as the rest of the looney tunes. "EVERYTHING in a commercial is noticed and approved." Maybe they approved A FU****G BOOKCASE NOT A CROSS!

Posted by AlanC 2007-12-19 14:21||   2007-12-19 14:21|| Front Page Top

#13 If Facism landed in the US it would find the US military and the majority of citizens rising up against it. It would not last long.

You really need to disarm the population, weaken the military, and make the populace dependent upon the government for Facism to really get hold. Speaking of that, what are the Democrat talking points this week.
Posted by rjschwarz 2007-12-19 14:28||   2007-12-19 14:28|| Front Page Top

#14 rjschwarz: I agree that some small introduction is in order, especially in this case of this election, as there are a lot of people who have no idea what Mormons are, or if Obama is a Muslim.

However, in general terms, Americans tend to differentiate between "ethics", the following of the written law, which they desire in their leaders, and "morality", which is far more tenuous and subjective.

That is, when a politician is seen as "ethical" by the public, everybody can endorse them for obeying the law. But when a politician claims that he is "moral", it creates confusion. This is because morality is relative to the religion, or even a sect within a religion, or the lack thereof.

The public is quite apprehensive about politicians whose idea of morality may be very different from their own. On top of everything else, morality is also a function of both thoughts and actions.

There are a lot of Catholic politicians, for example, who go to church frequently, but also vote in favor of abortion. Yet they still call themselves "Catholic" and insist they are "moral".

However, there is no confusion if they say they are "ethical", but get caught by the FBI stuffing hand fulls of hundred dollars bills into their underwear (or refrigerator) from some undercover agent dressed as an Arab sheik. Everybody in the country knows that they are not ethical.
Posted by Anonymoose 2007-12-19 16:00||   2007-12-19 16:00|| Front Page Top

#15 Think Bill Clinton carrying that huge Bible out of a church for a photo op, as if he cared one whit about what was written in it.

Even worse, think of jimmuh carter claiming to be a "born again" Christian. Remember where that got us?
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2007-12-19 16:05||   2007-12-19 16:05|| Front Page Top

#16 UPDATE: Ron Paul made up the quote! USA Today's political blog:

According to the executive director of The Sinclair Lewis Society, Illinois State University English Department associate dean Sally Parry, "it sounds like something Sinclair Lewis might have said or written ... but we've never been able to attribute it to him." We spoke to her by telephone this morning.
Posted by Mike 2007-12-19 16:27||   2007-12-19 16:27|| Front Page Top

#17 AlanC, if you think the Huckabee folks didn't realize that bookcase would look to many like a cross you are niave about how both politics and commercials work. They know everything that appears in the frame and approve it. That's not paranoid, that's reality, you should try it sometime.
Posted by rjschwarz 2007-12-19 18:37||   2007-12-19 18:37|| Front Page Top

#18 Guess I better not mention that I saw John Frum in my coffee this morning...
Posted by Pappy 2007-12-19 18:57||   2007-12-19 18:57|| Front Page Top

#19 Remember the subliminal bureaucrats in W's 2000 campaign? And then when they asked him about it he couldn't even pronounce subliminal? Boy, that was fun.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2007-12-19 19:02||   2007-12-19 19:02|| Front Page Top

#20 Ron Paul, proof that brain death can be popular.
Posted by Icerigger">Icerigger  2007-12-19 19:03|| http://coonlakebeach.com/support_mn_troops.htm]">[http://coonlakebeach.com/support_mn_troops.htm]  2007-12-19 19:03|| Front Page Top

#21 leading candidate of the BOT Party
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-12-19 21:05||   2007-12-19 21:05|| Front Page Top

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