Article

2006-07-21 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

Israel's military stunned by failure of air war?

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Steve White 2006-07-21 16:31|| || Front Page|| [11136 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Israel's new chief of staff, an air force general, believed that most of Israel's future operations would be conducted from the air.

Must of study with the USAF, cause several USAF planners and advocates proclaimed the same thing about Iraq et al.

Posted by Uliger Spelet1498 2006-07-21 17:17|| 2006-07-21 17:17|| Front Page Top

#2 I don't know whether Israel's government has been spending its money wisely or not, but I can't help but think that they're using the wrong metric.

This whole article seems to be written from the premise "Hezbollah hasn't been completely eliminated by the end of the second week, so obviously they've won."

Since Hezbollah has a large unpaid propaganda arm and isn't accountable to anyone the way democratic governments are, it can look like it's winning even when it's losing.

The problem is by building and using their human-shielded artillery park in Lebanon they've done away with all the usual incentives for countries like Israel to pretend there's nothing they can do besides just go along.

Posted by Phil 2006-07-21 17:21|| 2006-07-21 17:21|| Front Page Top

#3 You can't win a war with airpower (and no, Kosovo was not a win. It was a short term draw and a long term loss) You still need boots on the ground. However, airpower makes the boots life a hell of a lot easier during the fight. I don't think Israel planned to with the war with airplanes. It was a, "Hit them hard and often and see how the international community reacts". The International community, even the arabs said, "Meh, not our problem and it might be nice to get rid of Iran's rabid dog."
So, Israel is gonna invade.

Posted by DarthVader 2006-07-21 17:28|| 2006-07-21 17:28|| Front Page Top

#4 It's strange that I never see these "Disappointed by Results" articles written from the perspective of the bad guys:

Hizbollah Rank and File Chagrined to See Their Leaders Crying Like Little Bitches

I guess their operations always go according to plan.

Posted by Matt 2006-07-21 17:39|| 2006-07-21 17:39|| Front Page Top

#5 Right you are Matt. Also, it's a very limited analysis and uses extensive mindreading techinques to tease out the pessimism.

I'm still awaiting the first mention of "carpet-bombing" or "napalm". I think I saw some article speculating about WP. That, and nobody is even asking why Israel even has "neighbors", or what would happen if it decided it didn't want "neighbors".

Anyway, the IDF has vast depths of both tactical and strategic resources, and this article simply breezes by them with feckless ignorance.

Posted by Chaitch Fliter3582 2006-07-21 18:29|| 2006-07-21 18:29|| Front Page Top

#6 LOL, Chiatch. Extra points for "feckless". :)

Posted by cruiser 2006-07-21 18:31|| 2006-07-21 18:31|| Front Page Top

#7 Earlier this year, Israel decided against purchasing U.S.-origin bunker-buster weapons
Bet the Israeli MoD is regretting that. Actually, I had thought the Israelis had already received the 600 1 and 2.35 ton bombs.

Posted by ed 2006-07-21 18:45|| 2006-07-21 18:45|| Front Page Top

#8 Wait until Lebs --- who let Hezbollah operate without hinder as long as it left them alone --- count the costs of the air campaign.

Posted by gromgoru 2006-07-21 21:10|| 2006-07-21 21:10|| Front Page Top

#9 I heard that also. Not the failure per se but the de-investment in land forces.

Posted by Clerert Uneamp2772 2006-07-21 21:16|| 2006-07-21 21:16|| Front Page Top

#10 Weren't we like 0-50 for attempts to kill Saddam and other higher ups in 2003?

Posted by Penguin 2006-07-21 22:12|| 2006-07-21 22:12|| Front Page Top

#11 First off, both Hizbollah and Hezbollah will say they are not the same organz, at least officially, and regardless of how much aid Syria andor Iran gives them. Second, the IDF's curr generation of officers and enlisted men have done what used to be called "police actions" agz Muslim terrorists in Gaza-West Bank - one has to anticipate "teething troubles" wid MilOps for every new generation of [mostly NG/Newbie] warriors. Third, as a matter of joint-combined arms, iff Israeli air power is a "failure" then how has Israel claimed to destroy 40% to 1/2 of HEZBOLLAH'S fighting strength and weapon reserves!? IFF LEBANON CAN'T = WON'T CONTROL THEIR BORDERS OR WON'T GET RID OF THE TERROR ORGS, i.e. STATE(S) WITHIN A STATE, THEN LEBANON AS A POLITY CAN AND SHOULD BE DIVIDED BETWEEN ISRAEL AND OTHER ME STATES. The Radics may be Muslim as are most mainstream Lebanese, but they are also proxies of IRAN - Iran is hell-bent on Radical Islamist-, Shia-, and Iran-centric EMPIRE WHICH NO ME STATE, MUSLIM OR OTHER, DEMOCRATIC OR OTHER, IS INTENDED TO ESCAPE PER SE IRANIAN INFLUENCE AND DOMINATION. Fighting Israel = Lebanon will be a future province of Tehran and Shia-based Radical Islamism.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2006-07-21 22:26|| 2006-07-21 22:26|| Front Page Top

#12 Article: Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz and his advisers have been stunned by the failure of Israel's air war against Hizbullah, which has shrugged massive air bombings on its headquarters in Beirut to maintain the rocket war against the Jewish state. "Air power is not the answer here," a senior officer said. 'You have to go from one Hizbullah [weapons] bunker to another. Some of these bunkers are seven meters deep and can't be destroyed by aircraft, even if you could find them."

This is kind of silly. A week into the campaign and air power is not the answer? Granted, I accept that air power is not the answer. But ground combat isn't the answer either - it'll take a lot more than a week to erase Hezbollah from its prepared positions. And that's if they come out to fight. Remember, they're guerrillas - they can just fade into the woodwork. Three years into Iraq, ground troops haven't eliminated the insurgency. In the long run, ground troops are the answer, but quick incursions aren't going to do the trick. They're going to have to occupy southern Lebanon for decades. It's funny how Israelis lost a dozen dead every year for decades, and Ehud Barak decided to pull out, giving Hezbollah a sanctuary from which to build a state within a state. This year, Israel has lost about 60 people to Hezbollah, not to mentioned incurred tens of millions in infrastructure losses. I think Barak needs to be tarred and feathered and run out of town for his moronic withdrawal and betrayal of Israel's Maronite allies in Lebanon.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2006-07-21 22:27|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2006-07-21 22:27|| Front Page Top

#13 IMO, there's a lot of truth in your post, ZF.

I see two differences that I believe will reduce decades to something substantially less.

1) Israel will not be as restrained as you imply, I think. The Lebs have squandered their opportunity thus far Syrian with puppets. They will pay for that - Israel does not want to leave this half-done if they can help it. And Israel will not allow others to dissuade them before they feel they've done major damage to Hezb, I believe.

2) They do not want to hold Lebanon. They want to sweep up as much as they can in a reasonably limited time and create a buffer zone - of a depth to be decided as it proceeds, I think.

The Hezbollah assholes will have trouble skedaddling to Syria - since Israel has already seriously reduced the routes available - at least for vehicles. They may try to blend into the population, but I wonder how successful that will be. Israel has already shifted from counter-battery fire, since the Hezb's are using non-Shia houses and neighborhoods for firing their bottle rockets. Israel has started going directly after the Shia neighborhoods, from what I can gather. So that reduces at least some of the hiding places to rubble.

Just some tidbits to toss into the blender.

Posted by Shinegum Thraiger5571 2006-07-21 22:42|| 2006-07-21 22:42|| Front Page Top

23:53 tu3031
23:50 Secret Master
23:46 3dc
23:44 trailing wife
23:41 Barbara Skolaut
23:32 DMFD
23:28 Glenmore
23:27 Sherry
23:19 Shinegum Thraiger5571
23:15 Iblis
23:12 Slavising Sholuting4450
23:07 Sock Puppet of Doom
23:07 Slavising Sholuting4450
23:04 wxjames
23:04 Slavising Sholuting4450
22:59 Slavising Sholuting4450
22:57 Slavising Sholuting4450
22:55 wxjames
22:45 JosephMendiola
22:43 tu3031
22:42 Shinegum Thraiger5571
22:36 JosephMendiola
22:36 Aztaroth
22:31 JosephMendiola