Virginia Tech officials confirmed today that NBC News in New York City received a package of photos, videos and writings from gunman Seing-Hu Cho -- a package apparently mailed after the first of two killing sprees on Monday. Rest at link.
Posted by: ed ||
04/18/2007 17:54 ||
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#1
A Stone Cold Crazy. Should have been making wallets and sweeping the grounds.
#2
OK. Here it comes... cho's senior thesis. another newscylce that is "mine, oh (Sandra Oh) , mine".
If I am king of common sense, I say "flush this down the toilet and never let anyone see it".
If I am president of news programming for NBC, I say, "put on some more coffee, call home and tell your family you are working overtime tonight".
And some little "sullen loner" somewhere is thinking "how will I top this?"
#3
It's looking pretty bad for the college authorities now. How they didn't remove this certified space cadet from the college is a mystery. And allowing such people to buy guns is probably not the smartest policy of all time either.
#4
Listening to the Fox clips- cho ranting and raving about the "rich", "priviledged", "trust fund kids"... dude, your at VT, (and i mean NO dis to VT, or who I about to point out), but the "rap" cho is "rappin" would be better suited toward UVA...but I guess that didn't work in his senior thesis manifesto.
Sorry cho, even your "manifesto" gets a C minus.
#6
What we know:
Perp planned a combat style mission to take out as many people as possible.
Perp had ishmael ax written on the inside of his forearm.
Perp signed ishmael to his death note.
Perp ranted against western society.
Perp sent video to NBC, ranting about you "f@ucking his brothers and sisters"
Perp ranted about Christianity.
Perp shaved his head prior to video creation.
Does any of this sound familiar. Helloooooooooooo.
In a post 9/11 world I am disappointed at the failure to connect the dots.
I do note the lack of ranting about Jews . Maybe that is being held back by NBC and others.
Posted by: Dirka Dirka ||
04/18/2007 20:30 Comments ||
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#7
How they didn't remove this certified space cadet from the college is a mystery.
No mystery if you've been through the drill. Academics are value free, relativistic whores. Just show them the tuition. They don't care what kind of Lord of the Flies world their campuses turn into for the students as long as they get their tuition. They won't compromise the privacy of anyone and they will protect any thug whose account is current.
#11
NBC just changed the timeline on when the Cho package was received by NBC. We were originally told that it arrived Wed. morning. Now Drudge links a MSNBC web article with this :
NBC News President Steve Capus said the network received the package in Tuesday afternoons mail delivery, but it was not opened until Wednesday morning. The letter carrier noticed that it bore a return address from Blacksburg and alerted NBC security officers
So NBC had the package for more than 12 hours before the original Wed. statement. When were the Feds notified?
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/18/2007 21:29 Comments ||
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#13
Perhaps the FBI should take the fingerprints of every NBC technician, mail room flunky, and office worker with access to the package just to make sure that all prints are accounted for. And the paw prints of Brian Williams' little dog, too.
#17
Perhaps the FBI should take the fingerprints of every NBC technician, mail room flunky, and office worker with access to the package just to make sure that all prints are accounted for.
On Fox they were saying that the cops were praising how carefully NBC had handled the items.
#5
Dremel tool would be choice of tool to disfigure serial number.
Has anyone seen mention of transaction where cho purchases magazine clips for 9mm, .22c.? They are going to cost $15+ per mag for 9mm and $10+ for .22, plus he bought a bunch more ammo. There has to be a $200+ transaction out there somewhere.
PS. I am a casual target practice firearms owner- I am ballparking costs based on my experience. Subject experts welcome to reply.
#6
Pardon my moment of density, back there around 3:15pm EDT. Yeah, you're right.
The package that showed up at NBC News seems to explain part of the 2 hour lag: had to go to the post office... and perhaps his cache was not in his room as suggested.
I asked about how the gunman paid for these expensive items on a blog, and was told credit card. All credit card purchased items? Wouldn't that raise a red flag with SOMEONE? One gun was $541...he had more than one. What's the limit on a college kid's credit card these days? At some point, he had to pay at least the minimum. The ammo, as you point out is quite expensive. I'd like to have more info on these purchases.
#9
Something else doesn't sit right here. The roommate, and numerous other students, claimed Cho never spoke to ANYONE. Why then, did the roommate tell news that Cho recently started going to the gym? How would he know? Does anyone know if that's where this guy went...
#10
milford421, trailing daughter #1 has a credit card attached to a credit account on which we both have signing authority. She will be seventeen at the end of the month, and we got it so she can pay for gas for the aged minivan she drives. She also frequently takes it upon herself to pick up groceries on the way home from school, and to buy her sister and herself dinner at the local Subway as a treat. I just now checked, and the card apparently came with a $15,000 spending limit. Not at all what I intended -- I'll see about reducing that tomorrow!! But, if Mr. Cho was similarly on his parent's credit card account, as seems likely given that they were so careful and concerned about him, and given the large bills for textbooks and such that college students are faced with, it would make sense to me that purchases that seem large to you and me would not raise any flags with the credit card issuer.
#11
In answer to your #9, when college boys go to the gym, all in the vicinity are aware of it... or at least that was my experience in those days with the future Mr. Wife. He did enjoy walking around pumped up and sweaty entirely too much, in my considered opinion. He still does, even though deep in the throes of what is supposed to be sensible middle age. Mr. Cho's dorm room was described as typical college boy pigsty, so I imagine there were odiferous gym clothes draped over all the surfaces therein.
The decision to not ask newly booked criminal defendants about their citizenship came from a former high ranking judge, according to a written statement released Tuesday by Maricopa County Superior Court.
Judge James Keppel, who used to oversee Maricopa Countys criminal court, approved the dont ask-dont tell policy in response to Proposition 100, a measure voters approved in November that denies bail to illegal immigrants suspected of serious felonies, the statement said.
Presiding Judge Barbara Rodriguez Mundell, who oversees all county judges, released the statement to announce she had concluded her inquiry into the origin of the policy. She has said she knew nothing about it until March 30, when the Tribune obtained copies of memos about it.
Those memos were written by Penny Stinson, director of Pretrial Services. She sent them to her staff and copied them to Commissioner Sheila Madden, who oversees commissioners that set bail at defendants initial appearances.
Stinson and Madden "made a nationwide inquiry of pre-trial interview procedures prior to the passage of Proposition 100 and made a good faith determination that the courts staff should not ask questions that might incriminate defendants because the court must remain a neutral and impartial tribunal," Mundell wrote.
Stinson and Madden then presented their conclusion to Keppel.
Court spokeswoman J.W. Brown said Mundell would not comment beyond her written statement.
Keppel also declined comment, except to say he had "the highest respect" for Stinson and Madden.
Keppel resigned from his leadership post March 23 and will take over the duties of Judge John Gaylord, who was killed April 6 in a motorcycle wreck.
Brown said Keppels resignation had nothing to do with the Prop. 100 controversy.
Mundell said that from now on, any procedures to enforce changes in the constitution must be reviewed by her, a judicial committee and the Arizona Supreme Court.
The memos came to light after the Tribune revealed a paperwork mishap that allowed Ruben Perez Rivera, an illegal immigrant accused of kidnapping his ex-girlfriend, to be released from jail March 16 to the custody of the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
Mesa police say that Perez returned from his deportation to Mexico and stabbed his cousin to death March 27.
Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas accused Maricopa County Superior Court of intentionally trying to circumvent Prop. 100 by ordering Pretrial Services workers to avoid asking about citizenship.
Barnett Lotstein, office spokesman, said Mundells statement on Monday leaves questions unanswered. It is still unknown whether Stinson and Madden acted on their own or were given a directive, he said.
Also, he said, Stinsons memos show court workers asked about citizenship before voters approved the proposition, so why not after?
"All were asking them to do is follow the law," Lotstein said.
After the Tribune reported on Stinsons memos, Arizona Supreme Court Chief Justice Ruth V. McGregor ruled on April 3 that court workers can legally ask about citizenship.
Lotstein said that despite McGregors ruling, the court has taken new steps to circumvent Prop. 100 and this time, it is using publicly funded defense attorneys to do it.
The new controversy centers on Thomas decision to staff the 24-hour initial appearance court held in jail, where bail for newly booked defendants is set.
Historically, neither prosecutors nor defense attorneys attended initial appearance court. But the county contracted defense attorneys to staff the court, and Lotstein contends they are advising people to remain silent on questions pertaining to citizenship.
One of the attorneys, Lisa Posada, said she advises clients against talking about their charges, which is their right.
But on the issue of citizenship, she said it is not the courts role to ask incriminating questions. "The county attorney seems to want the court to take the role of the law enforcement investigative phase," Posada said.
Peter Ozanne, assistant county manager for criminal justice, said the goal of hiring the defense attorneys was to protect the rights of the accused and ensure fairness by balancing out the states presence.
Lotstein said people accused of a crime who cant afford an attorney have a constitutional right to one, but not at an initial appearance. The court wont appoint a publicly funded lawyer until it has determined the defendants financial status, so contracts may be an illegal expenditure, he said.
#3
But on the issue of citizenship, she said it is not the courts role to ask incriminating questions. "The county attorney seems to want the court to take the role of the law enforcement investigative phase," Posada said.
However, lawyers before the bench are officers of the court and can not themselves engage in actions which are criminal or make them party to criminal activity. It appears that loyalty to something other than the law is at play amongst the wannabe princes.
#4
[lawyer rant]
Where are the lawyers and judges protecting my ability to secure a living wage job?
Where are the lawyers and judges protecting me against illegal aliens?
Where are the lawyers and judges protecting my civil rights?
Where are the lawyers and judges actually protecting this nation?
We have to damn many lawyers and almost none of them are of any use to the average citizen in fact they are detrimental to the life and civil rights of the average citizen.
A mere hand full of decent and proper acting lawyers doesn't redeem the majority who are a useless waste of human skin.
Lawyers and judges damn them all to hell.
[/lawyer rant]
The New York Times : Federal investigators said Mr. Cho left behind a note that they described as a lengthy, rambling and bitter list of complaints focusing on moral laxity and double-dealing he found among what he viewed as wealthier and more privileged students on campus.
The first shooting, at the dorm: After two people, Emily Jane Hilscher, a freshman, and Ryan Clark, the resident adviser whose room was nearby in the dormitory, were shot dead, the campus police began searching for Karl D. Thornhill, who was described in Internet memorials as Ms. Hilschers boyfriend. According to a search warrant filed by the police, Ms. Hilschers roommate had told the police that Mr. Thornhill, a student at nearby Radford University, had guns at his town house. The roommate told the police that she had recently been at a shooting range with Mr. Thornhill, the affidavit said, leading the police to believe he may have been the gunman. But as they were questioning Mr. Thornhill, reports came in of widespread shooting at Norris Hall, making it clear that they had not contained the threat on campus. Mr. Thornhill was not arrested, although he continues to be an important witness in the case.
After the shootings, the state police executed another search warrant, this time for Mr. Chos dormitory room. The warrant said a bomb threat against the engineering school buildings was found near Mr. Chos body. The warrant mentioned two other bomb threat notes against the campus received over the past three weeks.
Mr. Cho had used two handguns, a 9-millimeter and a .22-caliber, to shoot dozens of rounds, leaving even those who survived with multiple bullet wounds, officials said. The guns were bought legally in March and April. Colonel Flaherty said that although one of those guns had been used in the dormitory shooting, investigators were not ready to conclude that the same gunman was responsible for both episodes. Officers also found several knives on Mr. Chos body. They first identified him by a drivers license found in a backpack near the scene of the shootings, although it was not clear at first whether the backpack belonged to the gunman. But the name was checked against a visa application, and when a fingerprint on one of the weapons matched a print on the visa application, the authorities made a positive identification. The print matched another print left in the first shooting location.
Prescription medications said to be related to treatment of psychological problems were found among Mr. Chos effects, but officials did not specify what drugs they were.
Lucinda Roy, an English professor, said Mr. Chos writing, laced with anger, profanity and violence, concerned several faculty members. In 2005, she sent examples to the campus police, the campus counseling service and other officials. All were worried, but little could be done, she said. Ms. Roy said she would offer to go with Mr. Cho to counseling, just to talk. But he wouldnt say yes, and unfortunately I couldnt force him to do it, she said. Students were also alarmed that Mr. Cho was taking inappropriate pictures of women under desks, she said.
The LA Times: Hilshcher's roommate Haugh said today that she didn't think Hilscher knew Cho. And the federal source discounted speculation that Cho had killed Hilscher out of jealousy. Instead, he said, Cho simply seemed to be mad at the world.
A second released warrant outlined the search of Cho's dormitory room at Harper Hall on campus. "A bomb threat note was found in the close vicinity of the shooting which occurred near the victims and presumed suspect who is deceased," the affidavit states. "The presumed suspect was believed to have multiple firearms including, but not limited to a Walther P22 and a Glock 9-mm handgun."
Markell pulled the paperwork and found that the Glock was sold in his shop 36 days ago for $535. The new gun was sold with two magazines, 15 rounds each. "He obviously had a lot more [ammo] than that," Markell told reporters. The purchaser "was about as clean-cut a kid as you ever want to see, he had all the proper ID." A colleague who actually handled the sale also told Markell that the kid "didn't act fidgety, he just acted normal."
For a university that emphasizes engineering, Virginia Tech has a robust English program, with about 500 majors. The department has three tracks -- literature, professional writing and creative writing -- and Cho was in creative writing. "They're smart," Rude said of the department's students. "There's a lot of pressure on students from their parents to follow business and technical-type majors, but then they follow their hearts and they end up here."
Stephanie Derry, a senior English major at Virginia Tech, was in a playwriting class with Cho. "We were in a playwriting class together, which is a workshop class, meaning you submit your plays to everyone in it and then we all review the play in class and talk about it," Derry said. "His writing, the plays, were really morbid and grotesque. He even wrote one play about students being stalked by a teacher. I mean, his kind of writing was pretty peculiar, but when we asked him if he had any comments after we'd reviewed his work, he would just shrug and say nothing."
The [UK] Independent: Five weeks ago, the 23-year-old foreign student entered the shop and paid $570 (£284) with a credit card for a Glock 9mm semi-automatic pistol and a box of 50 cartridges. He provided three different forms of identification and passed an additional security check carried out by the state police. The checks threw up no red flags. The entire transaction took no more than 20 minutes.
"I don't know anything about him. I just sold him the gun," said store owner John Markell. "He had a Virginia driving licence, a cheque book and a green card. Everything was legit - he checked out completely." Mr Markell said that because Cho was a foreign national, he was required to have three forms of identification with him rather than the normal two. "We also rang up the state police. They ran it through the FBI computer," Mr Markell added. "He was here on a student visa."
Mr Markell said that officers from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) visited the store on the afternoon of the shooting - the receipt for the handgun had later been found on Cho - but they had not troubled him further. There had been no suggestion the shop should be closed or that business should be suspended.
Mr Markell said he believed the student had bought ammunition more suitable for target shooting than for "self protection".
The [UK] Times: Cho was a loner who lived on campus and had begun behaving bizarrely before he unleashed the worst single shooting spree in US history on Monday.
Police said they had seized considerable writing in his dormitory.
John Markell, the owner of Roanoke Firearms, said that Cho paid $571 for the Glock and 50 rounds of ammunition. He had shown three separate forms of identification, as required by law. A background check revealed that he had no conviction. He was a nice, clean-cut college kid, Mr Markell said yesterday. We wont sell a gun if we have any idea at all that the purchase is suspicious. He added that it was not unusual for college students to buy guns at his shop.
Police sources said that in recent weeks Cho had been treated for depression, had begun to stalk women and had tried to start a fire in a campus dormitory.
Police were examining his computer for further clues to his state of mind and motives. They believe that after he killed Ms Hilscher and Ryan Clark, a senior student who went to her aid in Ambler Johnston Hall, Cho returned to his own dormitory building, rearmed, and wrote his final note. According to the Chicago Tribune, citing college officials, Cho even had time to post a deadly warning on a school on-line forum. He is reported to have written: Im going to kill people at vtech today.
He then walked to the class-room block of Norris Hall.
Students at Harper Hall, the campus dormitory where Cho lived, said they had little to do with him. Cho shared a bedroom with Joseph Aust, a student of electrical engineering. Mr Aust said he knew barely anything about his roommate, and they hardly spoke. When they moved in together, Cho introduced himself as a business student.
Mr Aust said that Cho was always on his computer listening to rock, pop and classical. He would spend a lot of time down-loading music, he said. I would come into the room and he'd just kind of be staring at his desk, just staring at nothing, Mr Aust said.
His sister is a graduate of Princeton, the Ivy League university.
#1
I've been monitoring South Korean newspapers and forums; and the majority of their opinions seem to suggest that they chalk this up to the "American Way of Life' or a 'Western Society Thing'. However I also noted how you don't hear about this type of activity occurring there even on an occasional basis! Could it have something to do with parental responsibility and eventual blame there from??
#2
I still maintain that key words like "charlatans", "moral laxity" and the like justify concerns about Cho being part of Syung Myung Moon's cult. Fear not, I'm making no attempt to equate Moon with Christianity, no matter how much Moon does himself. The Reunification Church is a cult, pure and simple. The inappropriate photographing, stalking, dorm arson and lurid scriptwriting should have set off a few warning bells as well.
#3
I send my heartfelt sorrow and wishes for your comfort, all those affected. What a horrible tragedy.
I know many Americans consider gun ownership a right, but honestly in countries where it's difficult to get a gun and you need a licence to do it for sport or because you are a farmer, there are a lot less shooting accidents and deaths.
You need a licence to drive a car, you should need a licence to own a gun - keep info on a national database and crosscheck with other databases. That way you can check if someone suffers from mental illness or is a convicted felon and simply revoke their firearm licence and their firearms. Wont catch everyone but should screen out some of the nutters.
#4
but honestly in countries where it's difficult to get a gun and you need a licence to do it for sport or because you are a farmer, there are a lot less shooting accidents and deaths.
Yes, and the disarmed citizens of those countries are highly dependent upon their militaries and law enforcement for protection against threats, be they criminal or foreign. Such vulnerability in a citizenry does not encourage responsiveness in a government. Once they have control, it is rarely relinquished voluntarily.
I would much rather endure the slight increase in danger to my well being and sleep well at night knowing that I had it within my means to stop and, if need be, kill anyone who wanted to harm me or my loved ones. It has been said elsewhere and I certainly agree that, as Islamists overtake their nations, many Europeans will soon enough regret their strict gun controls.
Examine totalitarian regimes like Soviet Russian and communist China. One of the first things they do is strip their citizens of weapons. A government unconfronted by the prospect of an armed and disgruntled population is a government that is free to impose any sort of tyranny.
#5
anon1, shooting accident? So in your view, the nutcase "accidentally" shot 33 people?
You are apparently totally confused by your particular country successfull educayshun, when you readily compare apples and oranges. Please, reneg and use your attrofied discerning faculties.
#8
in countries where it's difficult to get a gun and you need a licence to do it for sport or because you are a farmer, there are a lot less shooting accidents and deaths.
I believe Australia counts as one of those countries, right? Remember the Cronulla "riot" that was followed by the members of a local mosque driving around, beating people up?
One of the other things the local Muslims was doing was waving around pistols. In public. In plain view. And nothing was done about it.
The only people disarmed by gun laws are the honest people, the people you can count on to stop this kind of thing. Look up "Appalachian School of Law", or how Charles Whitman was kept from killing as many people as Cho did.
There are millions of defensive uses of firearms in the US every year. Most of the time, no shots are fired, and as a result they're not news. Even if there are shots fired, even if the criminal is shot in self defense, the story usually disappears because it's not unusual and it doesn't fit the story the press wants to hear.
You may also want to research how the Israelis dissuaded the Palestinians from shooting up schools full of kids.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
04/18/2007 6:54 Comments ||
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#9
Of course, where there are no guns there are fewer shooting accidents. But more other kinds of accidents, the accident-prone being after all prone to accidents. And while there are fewer gun-related crimes, there are more of other kinds of crime, criminals being likewise drawn to committing... crimes. In fact, if one compares the rate of rapes in Paris, Sydney and New York City (where a great many people own guns even though the mayor disapproves), I strongly suspect that the NYC rate is lower. If one adds in the major cities of Scandinavia as well...
The mayor of Nagasaki was shot dead yesterday; his predecessor in office was apparently shot as well. All of Japan is supposed to be a gun-free zone, excepting the military. I'm certain the mayor's family find that comforting.
anon1, you are a darling and your condolences are appreciated. The other bit was both thoughtless and extremely rude, two behaviours we are not accustomed to from you. As for the meat of your comments: Mr. Cho's background was checked in the FBI database. He came back clean because he had never committed a crime (it's illegal for convicted criminals to own guns). Mental illness is considered a personal medical matter in the US, so such information is not in any database; nonetheless, Mr. Cho was being treated for depression, which as far as I know does not generally lead to mass murder. On the other hand, those intent on mass murder will use whatever tools they have on hand. There was a gentleman in England(?) recently, who liked to hit people over the head with a shovel, then feed them to his pigs. Which, then, should Australia ban, anon1 dear: shovels or piggeries?
#10
"I know many Americans consider gun ownership a right, but honestly in countries where it's difficult to get a gun and you need a licence to do it for sport or because you are a farmer, there are a lot less shooting accidents and deaths."
A half-century ago, when I was young, we had virtually NO gun control of any kind. Anyone aged 18 or older could go into any store that sold guns, anywhere, and walk out with the firearm of his choice not five minutes later. Nor did we have any of these Virginia Tech massacres. The first such incident was the 1966 "Texas Clocktower" shooting spree by Charles Whitman, and it shocked the entire nation.
Today we are far more restrictive on gun ownership, both with regard to the types of guns people are permitted to buy and who can buy them.
If there's any correlation at all between gun control and gun violence in America, it is a negative one.
"...That way you can check if someone suffers from mental illness or is a convicted felon and simply revoke their firearm licence and their firearms. Wont catch everyone but should screen out some of the nutters."
We ALREADY do that. Any time I go to a gun store and purchase a handgun, there is a lengthy questionnaire I have to fill out, and then a long wait while my answers are checked for veracity against State and Federal databases. And the list of conditions under which a person is prohibited from owning a gun is VERY long.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/18/2007 7:27 Comments ||
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#11
anon1, why is there no amendment to the constitution establishing a right to drive, or more historically appropriate, a right to ride a horse or wagon? Guns are different, I agree. They are more important.
#12
Anon1:
Let's continue the analogy futher. With a driver's license, I can go and buy or rent as many cars as I want. I can get one with no waiting period. I can get one as big or small, or as powerful, as I want. There is no limit on the number of cars I can use a month.
Only people who actually seriously misuse a car lose their licenses.
#13
Lets see. Somewhere, say Tongduchon, a GI is driving a 5 ton military truck on a delivery or as part of military exercise. A young Korean on a bicycle cuts in front of him, instantly joining his ancestors. The nationalist immediately mobilize blaming the entire American armed forces and America for the death. Mass anti-American demonstrations are held around the university. The one in Seoul follows the usual story line of demonstrators, police, Molotov cocktails, etc. Politicians make promises to reduce the American presence in country. American troops are locked down on the bases and no training is permitted for several weeks or months.
Now, a Korean student butchers several dozen American students on an American campus. Guess what youre going to see. Blame America, of course.
#14
The inappropriate photographing, stalking, dorm arson and lurid scriptwriting should have set off a few warning bells as well.
Zenster: It has been reported his creative writing professor (if I have the story straight) went so far as to report his disturbing behavior to campus security. The problem is quite what security could have done about it at that point. And, in fairness to them, what could they do?
To me so much of the conversation around these events mirrors our culture's passivity in the face of threats of violence from all the usual suspects. From the hang-wringing about guns and violence to the cries not to "blame" so many of the victims for failing to defend themselves to the sick logic that would leave this creep free to plot his work for fear of unjustly preempting him. We need to develop a thorough-going sense of self-preservation and get our priorities in order.
#15
This poor bastard was obviously & profoundly disturbed. He had issues for a long time and I find it amazing that his parents had never done anything to intervene.
Oh and the manner in which the S. Korean press is handling this should surprise no one.
Posted by: RJB in JC MO ||
04/18/2007 9:40 Comments ||
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#16
Zenster - where did you find the bit about him being a Moonie?
The boy is an "English" student and butchers "Engineers" in a classroom he has never attended. His writings rail against debauchery but "engineers and debauchery" are not words that go together.
This was one seriously schizoid boy. The wife, who works with such folks, says he should have been in a lock-up facility. His symptoms were to strange for a group home or any part of society.
#17
a lengthy, rambling and bitter list of complaints focusing on moral laxity and double-dealing he found among what he viewed as wealthier and more privileged students on campus.
One might think he'd been reading ABC's Terry Moran.
#18
From the AP via the Columbus Dispatch we get a little more info about that "note":
A law-enforcement official who read the note described it yesterday as a typed, eight-page rant against rich kids and religion.
"You caused me to do this," the official quoted the note as saying.
Cho indicated in his letter that the end was near and that there was a deed to be done, the official said. He also expressed disappointment in his own religion, and made several references to Christianity, the official said.
#20
Those that exploit tragedies, such as this, as a conduit for their personal politics need to be vigorously exposed. In the wake of this event Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, (D-NY) has already voiced her intention to resurrect legislation in the US house for stricter gun laws. Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) is already seeking to hold hearings on the shooting. And The Anti-Gun lobby has already begun a full court press calling for Brady Bill to be re-introduced. As per usual, their logic will be challenged and as before will be proven to be both folly and Un-Constitutional. However, given the timing of their actions, it should not be out of bounds to question their motivations as less then altruistic.
Maybe I'm all wet, but when I heard the outline of the crime, I thought the style was American.
If I hear about a mass murder and it is:
A suicide explosion among civilians
Maybe this was pioneered by Hindus, but the ROP have taken to it like ducks to water. Almost certainly an ROP crime.
A team going about slaughtering people
Very tribal--Rwanda or St. Peters in Monrovia or Klansmen or Zebra killers, but ROP folks indulge too (Beslin). Here in the US these days I'd guess ROP unless it was obviously gang-related.
Big bomb
I can see the scar in Sterling Hall out my window. Tossup whether a big bomb is from a homegrown killer or an ROP one.
Poisoning food/water
Not a clue. (Unless it was anthrax, which limits the suspects some)
Lone gunman in a personal Ragnarok
Generally seems to be an American. (Possible sampling bias here, of course)
I tried Googling to see if I could figure out if Koreans went in for this sort of thing too, but couldn't arrive at any conclusions. Maybe they're right about it being something he learned here; and that back in Korea he'd have chosen a different approach to murder.
Posted by: James ||
04/18/2007 11:00 Comments ||
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#23
Dr. Helen has another of a series of posts on such mass murderers -- fascinating stuff. But germane to the point you raise, James, it seems that the South Koreans are not immune to such behaviour (from a post on the day of the murders):
It seems that everyone is blaming the "American gun culture" on what happened but perhaps Cho Seung-Hui took his cues from another infamous mass murderer, Woo Bum-Kon, also from Korea:
Bum-Kon had an argument with his live-in girlfriend in the afternoon of April 26, 1982. Enraged, he left the house and went to the police armory, where he began consuming large amounts of whiskey. He became moderately drunk, raided the police armory of its weapons and built a personal arsenal. Bum-Kon then stole a single high-powered rifle and some grenades and left the armory. It was by this point around dinner time. He walked from house to house, and abused his position as a police officer to make people feel safe and gain entry to the home. Then he shot the victims, or killed the entire family with a grenade. He continued this pattern for the next eight hours, and into the early morning hours of April 27.
Bum-Kon committed the worse mass murder in known history, killing 58 people--could the Virginia shooter have been trying to do the same?
Outlawing guns only keeps them out of the hands of the law-abiding, i.e. the victims, and it doesn't stop any psycho from killing by other means.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/18/2007 12:49 Comments ||
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#25
This poor bastard was obviously & profoundly disturbed. He had issues for a long time and I find it amazing that his parents had never done anything to intervene.
Easier said than done. Once a child becomes a teenager, when these problems usually manifest - absent a precipitating legal incident that can cause a court to order some form of rehab or incarceration - the options for parents are few. You can get a professional to recommend/approve lock-up (provided you can get the kid to go to counseling), but you're on your own as far as getting the kid there is concerned. Essentially, if the kid's not willing (and how many of such teens are?) you basically have to kidnap your own kid and physically force him into the facility.
#27
Can we please stop trying to compare the United States to nations such as Japan, Korea, or any European nation? I've seen enough of all of them to know that they are profoundly different - different history, different culture, different geography (yes, that's important), different form of government, different ethnic make-up (Japan, Korea, and most European countries are primarily composed of only one race, culture, religion, etc. The US has 'em all). It makes no sense to compare the United States with Britain(about the same size and twice the population of California), France (the size of Texas, but far more uniform in climate and geography), Japan (about 1/20 the size of the US, 1/3 or more of the population), and so forth. The citizens of the United States have the greatest amount of personal liberty of any nation on Earth. What we consider a poverty level would be considered moderately rich in half the countries of the world. The US and China are about the same size, but the US has 300 million people, while China has 1.2 BILLION.
Mr. Cho was a distinctly sick individual. We will probably never know everything that was percolating through this man's mind, or why he engaged in this unbelievably dastardly act. To blame the incident on a "gun culture", or as he alluded to, "debauchery" and "arrogance", is nonsense. The citizens of the United States are free to do whatever they wish, as long as they don't bring harm to others. Mr. Cho crossed that line. He is singularly responsible for his behavior and his actions. Trying to redirect that responsibility to "others", or to differences in cultures or mores, is simply wrong.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/18/2007 14:44 Comments ||
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#28
Zenster - where did you find the bit about him being a Moonie?
Pure personal speculation evoked by the explicitly sermonizing language used by Cho. While I certainly hope that this cannot be pasted onto America's Christian community, South Korea's "Christian" community is another matter entirely.
Syung Myung Moon has become an increasingly problematic player in conservative politics. His dubiously acquired wealth is spread throughout many pet Republican and Christian fundamentalist causes.
But Moon's secret financial ties to Falwell raise some sensitive political questions, particularly amid congressional hearings on foreign money influencing U.S. politics: For instance, did the $3.5 million from Moon's front group give Falwell the means to become a national pitchman for "The Clinton Chronicles" and other conspiracy-mongering videos which fingered President and Mrs. Clinton in a wide range of serious crimes, including murder? During the period of the Liberty bail-out, Falwell was using his expensive TV time to hawk the videos.
When The Roanoke Times & World News interviewed Falwell about the bail-out, the televangelist sat at his desk in front of two life-size, full-color cutouts of Bill and Hillary Clinton, whom he jokingly called his "advisers." The cut-outs were gifts from Liberty staffers in recognition of Falwell's success in distributing the Clinton-hating videos. [RT&WN, Feb. 6, 1995]
Many of those lurid right-wing conspiracy theories have since been discredited, including allegations connecting the Clintons to the death of deputy White House counsel Vincent Foster. But the Falwell-promoted videos did feed a Clinton scandal fever that helped the Republicans seize control of Congress in 1994.
Moon's largesse is additionally suspect because Moon has never publicly accounted for his mysterious source of wealth. Much of the money apparently comes from shadowy Asian industrialists, some with links to organized crime and fascist political circles. But Moon has refused to open his books, even in the late 1970s when a congressional investigation identified his church as a front for the South Korean CIA, which was then engaged in a secret political influence-buying scheme known as "Korea-gate."
Falwell also might have been shy about disclosing his alliance with Moon because the Korean's theology upsets many Christians. Moon asserts that Satan corrupted mankind by sexually seducing Eve in the Garden of Eden and that only through sexual purification can mankind be saved. In line with that doctrine, Moon says Jesus failed in his mission to save mankind because he did not procreate.
Moon sees himself as a second messiah who will not make the same mistake. He has engaged in sex with a variety of women over the decades. The total number of his offspring is a point of debate inside the Unification Church.
Moon's rhetoric has turned stridently anti-American, another problem for the Religious Right and its strongly patriotic positions. On May 1, 1997, Moon told a group of followers that "the country that represents Satan's harvest is America." [ Unification News, June 1997] In other sermons, he has vowed that his victorious movement will "digest" any American who tries to maintain his or her individuality. He especially has criticized American women who must "negate yourself 100 percent" to be a receptacle for the male seed. [For details of Moon's speeches, see The Consortium, July 28, 1997]
Still, despite his controversial remarks, Moon continues to buy friends on the American right -- as well as among African-American religious figures -- by spreading around vast sums of money. The totals are estimated in the billionsofdollars, with much of it targeted on political infrastructure: direct-mail operations, video services for campaign ads, professional operatives and right-wing media outlets.
[emphasis added]
Cho's heinous acts appear to be nothing more than a predictable extension of self-proclaimed messiah and cult king Moon's dangerous ravings. If Cho's parents are members of Moon's Unification Church it would go a long way towards explaining the devastation at Virginia Tech.
America was ill prepared for the advent of Moon's cult. Much as it still remains unready to cope with yet another cult that poses an equal if not far greater threat. Namely, that of Islam. Both of these apocalyptic groups flew below radar in America's tolerant religious melting pot and have become antagonistic to our national interests. Due to recent republican political ascendancy, Moon was allowed far greater latitude that he might otherwise received. One of Moon's sub-organizations rewarded former President Bush quite handsomely after leaving office: (from the same link)
I discovered this Moon-Falwell connection while looking for something else: how much Moon's Women's Federation for World Peace had paid former President George Bush for a series of speeches in Asia in 1995. I obtained the federation's Internal Revenue Service records but discovered that Bush's undisclosed speaking fee was buried in a line item of $13.6 million for conference expenses.
[emphasis added]
If our politicians cannot begin to more accurately sort amongst those who compete for the very souls of American youth, our nation stands at far greater risk than it ever did during the Cold War.
#29
Zenster: It has been reported his creative writing professor (if I have the story straight) went so far as to report his disturbing behavior to campus security. The problem is quite what security could have done about it at that point. And, in fairness to them, what could they do?
Coupled with the inappropriate under-desk photography, stalking and dorm arson, I'd say that the school had plenty of grounds for dismissing or expelling Cho. While any single one of these offenses might have escaped the notice of authorities, in combination they form a disturbing composite pointing towards a potentially unstable individual.
Please note that I refuse to blame "gun culture" or any such hogwash. I have questioned the inability of Cho's victims to more vigorously defend themselves, but when all is said and done, it is Cho himself who carries the vast burden of guilt.
I still remain quite concerned over the possibility of Cho having been subjected to any pseudo-religious programming. My preceding post deals with that notion.
This is obviously a guy who has sexual problems, beyond any depression/general weirdness.
If prostitution was safely available to him, he might have partaken in some 'horizontal pleasures', and that would have probably change him completely. I'm a big believer that the physical companionship of women changes a man. Especially emotionally. Especially if he is young.
It's a rare maniac that has a normal sex life. The Unabomber, Tim McVeigh, every fucking murderous jihadi.
Now obviously prostitution has its problems, and I am a big believer in communities values based on traditional American family values. I'm just bringing up this point.
#32
The inappropriate photographing, stalking, dorm arson and lurid scriptwriting should have set off a few warning bells as well.
I read someplace that the girl who was being stalked refused to press charges. Would things be different if she had?
Here's a clue, gals (& guys), if someone commits a crime against you - and stalking is a crime - prosecute. I can't for the life of me figure out why someone won't press charges against a stalker but would have no problem pressing charges against a purse-snatcher. Which one causes more harm in both the short and the long run?
"Feeling sorry" for a criminal is stupid.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
04/18/2007 15:19 Comments ||
Top||
#33
I think it's a wild goose chase to go off on the Moonies. Penguin has a better explanation with sexual frustration. Asian males are on the lowest rung of sexual desirability in this country while Asian females top the desirability list. That creates a huge sexual imbalance in the Asian community and a lot of frustration for Asian men. In addition, Cho's teenage development was most likely as an outsider, with a lot of Korean mores and customs already ingrained and not quite picking up American social skills, compounding the low desirability quotient. Add to that the legendary Korean stubbornness and hostility and a stifling family life, and you get a bat shit crazy personality feeding on itself.
Posted by: ed ||
04/18/2007 16:25 Comments ||
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#34
In some ways this reminds me of Columbine. Especially the part about the neighbors hearing the 2 kids assembling the bombs for several days before the killings. It's also interesting to remember that the students at Columbine were expecting those guys to go on a killing spree.
However the rule against "tattling" kept the 2 killers safe. The one good thing that came out of Columbine is that kids and parents learned is: "If somebody is threatening mass murder, tell the authorities". Several plots have been stopped because the Police were notified and took it seriously.
What I hope it that students and faculty will learn from this and notify Police if appears to be violently crazy. The fact that the creative writing teachers requested a psych "intervention" with this guy is remarkable. In fact, I've never heard of another case of this. This should have been a warning for the Campus Police to keep a close eye on him.
Unfortunately the "anything goes" ethos that pervades most college campuses allowed Mr. Cho to blend in until he went on his killing spree.
Al
Posted by: Frozen Al ||
04/18/2007 16:50 Comments ||
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#35
I'm a big fan of The Anchoress (theanchoressonline.com) - a brilliant writer, mom, wife, and a resident of suburban NYC. Some of you may know that she's had a bout of illness, but she's recovered enough to post a VT Massacre piece .
Here is an excerpt that describes a part of her character that I hadn't known before. Now that I do, it doesn't really surprise me :)
A quick confession: I was not always clumsily arthritic girl; for reasons that are not worth getting into, I have some expertise in the field of blade-wielding (take your best guess, maybe I was a carnival girl who got knives thrown at her in a past life). Once, answering a question on a long car ride, I had occasion to explain to Buster how vital it is for a short woman like me to have a spring-loaded blade delivered quickly to my hand so that I could then thrust it into a pericardium from below the ribcage. I showed him where the sternum extends and I advised him that its always dicey to attack from above (unless youre taller than your opponent, and going for the jugular) as the ribcage would get in the way of the blade and the resulting shock up the arm can cost you your life. [Edited upon reconsideration; Im not comfortable thinking I may be giving anyone ideas - admin] Finally, I described how one cleanly slit brachial artery (and a severing of the brachial nerve) can render an arm useless while bringing things to a fairly quick, if bloody, conclusion [another edit - on second thought, maybe I dont want to write all of these things out.]
Busters initial reaction was that Mom was kind of a scary broad, but a few minutes later he said, teach me that stuff
No, I dont intend to train my son to the blade, nor do I recommend anyone else do it. But, this all has me thinking in a perfect world, we should not need weapons, nor fighting science and yet as we see, daily, the world is an imperfect place, and all of our best impulses toward peace may be thwarted at any time by someone with another idea. My son is not exactly a kid who wanders around wondering how he can kill people with the tools at hand, and Id certainly prefer that he bring his mind around to restraining and detaining a bad guy rather than taking his or her life, but sometimes I wonder if we have gone too far in teaching our children that fighting is bad.
#36
I'm a big fan of The Anchoress (theanchoressonline.com) - a brilliant writer, mom, wife, and a resident of suburban NYC.
I just want to second that view. I'm a regular visitor there and always come away refreshed. Not that she's all fluffy bunnies and pie-in-the-sky, but she has a way of clearing the air with a distinctly otherworldly perspective.
#38
Add to that the legendary Korean stubbornness and hostility and a stifling family life, and you get a bat shit crazy personality feeding on itself.
#40
However the rule against "tattling" kept the 2 killers safe.
I disagree, Al. Those Columbine nutcases were in trouble with the law, had counseling, and at least one was prescribed medication well before the massacre. And we're all becoming familiar with Cho's prior run-ins with the law and his professors that sent him to counseling.
This wasn't about anybody refusing to tattle. It was about the lack of power or the lack of perception on behalf of the professionals who dealt with Cho to get him the treatment and/or removal from society that he needed.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/18/2007 20:18 Comments ||
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#41
Zenster: Indeed the school could have expelled this guy. But, and I do not mean to be snide here, expelling the man would not put a magic safety bubble between him and campus any more than Virginia Tech's gun free campus regulations did.
I am thinking more along the lines of: In fairness, what could campus security have done when the obvious answer would be to put him down like a rabid dog. I gather from at least one report that large numbers of his fellow students refused to attend class with him and a poetry prof threatened to quit rather than teach him. If this is true, it seems to me everybody knew exactly what this guy was capable of and nothing was done to preempt his actions. And - my point again - under the law what on earth could campus security have done?
Laws, norms and expectations of our individual and collective duties all need to change. This was one nut. We have 1.2 billion dark ages religious maniacs who want to do the same to us and worse. At least one pack of them have nuclear weapons.
The Doolittle Raid of April 18, 1942, was the first air raid by the United States to strike the Japanese home islands during World War II. The mission was unusual in that, for the only time in U.S. military history, United States Army Air Forces bombers launched into combat from a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier. The Doolittle Raid demonstrated that the Japanese home islands were vulnerable to Allied air attack, and it provided an expedient outlet for U.S. retaliation for Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. . . .
Posted by: Mike ||
04/18/2007 14:19 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
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#1
Most importantly, it helped tip the balance in favor of Yamamoto's disastrous Midway plan - theretofore generally viewed very dimly by both the army and navy high commands - thus setting the stage for perhaps the most lopsided defeat in modern history. The boost to domestic morale was also important.
#3
From such ruthlessness we must learn once again. I weep for our WWI and WWII veterans. I stopped one today and shook his aging hand in deepest gratitude.
Polygamous Muslim husbands settling in Britain with multiple wives can claim extra benefits for their "harems" even though bigamy is a crime in the UK, it has emerged. Gawd you just know this is going to happen in Minneapolis
Opposition MPs are demanding an urgent change in the law, claiming that the Government is recognising and rewarding a custom which has no legal status and which is "alien" to this country's cultural traditions. Not to mention the laws humans live under
Islamic law allows a man to take up to four wives, providing he can provide for them fairly and equally. Welfare is in the Quran, who knew
However, if a husband and his wives arrive and settle in Britain having wed in a country where polygamy is legal, then the UK benefits system recognises his extra wives as dependents and pays them accordingly. Now where are those 72 wedding contracts...
Tory MP for Monmouth David Davies condemned the arrangements as "appalling", and called for an immediate halt to the payments. He said: "People who come to this country must be prepared to abide by our laws and rules. Polygamy is completely alien to our cultural and legal tradition, and it's disgraceful that our benefits system is recognising and rewarding it. Good luck with that Davies, really
A spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain said it was quite common for men here to undergo more than one Nikah with different wives. This does not count as bigamy since only the first marriage is legally recognised. A DWP official insisted the rules did not "reward" polygamy, as second wives receive less in benefits than single women. A single person can claim just under £60 per week in jobseeker's allowance, while couples receive up to £92.80, but each 'additional spouse' in a polygamous marriage receives an extra £33.65. There you go, cheaper by the quarter dozen. Question, how many head of camel does that translate into cause you know they are going to be asking for that next
For voting purposes, each extra wife will be counted as 3/5 of a person.
#1
There was an article here not long ago about the Somali community in (I think) New York City, and the second wives were similarly receiving benefits unquestioned. Ditto in France. It's in their traditions, dontchaknow, and anyway it isn't fair to penalize the wives and children for the situation. 'Taint welfare anyway, it's jizya.
Icerigger, aren't there twenty Camels in a pack? But smoking causes cancer, so I'm sure our government would never be party to such a thing. ;-)
#5
Dont't be fooled. The only reason they have multiple wives is to out breed you. Army son says, wives for breeding, boys for play is common in that part of the world.
Posted by: Dirka Dirka ||
04/18/2007 20:16 Comments ||
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#6
From Greece eastwards, Dirka Dirka. Although likely less in Greece than elsewhere, and likely less there now than in ancient times before the fall of Rome.
The mayor of the Japanese city of Nagasaki died early on Wednesday after being shot by a member of a criminal syndicate, police said. Itcho Ito, 61, seeking re-election for a fourth term on Sunday, was shot at least twice in the back outside his campaign office just before 8 p.m. (1100 GMT) on Tuesday. Police arrested Tetsuya Shiroo, 59, a senior member of a local gang affiliated with Japan's largest crime syndicate, the Yamaguchi Gumi, and seized a revolver he had with him.
The motive for the shooting remained unclear, but public broadcaster NHK said Shiroo was upset at the city's handling of a traffic accident four years ago in which his car was damaged as it passed a public works construction site.
Ito's death comes as a shock to the residents of Nagasaki, as his predecessor was also shot and seriously injured in 1990 by a right-wing group member after making comments that Emperor Hirohito should be held liable for war responsibilities. After an emergency operation that lasted for around four hours, Ito was kept alive for some time by an artificial heart and lungs but died at 2:28 a.m. (1728 GMT) due to loss of blood, a police spokesman said. Doctors had told a news conference that two bullets had reached his heart.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/18/2007 00:00 ||
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Link ||
[1 views]
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#1
The Japanese "Nationalists" are tied to the crime syndicates according to some Japanese I have heard comment in various forums.
#2
A senior local member of the nations largest crime syndicate, and he's still pissed off about a nickel and dime auto claim from four years ago?!? This dude probably has a hot tub full of 100's that he swims in, why the hell would he still have that stuck in his craw? Sounds almost arab to me.
#5
Over a decade ago when we rolled early cell systems into Japan - the customer would not let us just take down a cell for upgrade and maint. in some districts. We had to gently let the calls peter out. Why we asked?
Answer: "those are districts where the syndicate live and we can't let them have a dropped call. If they get one they will bomb our offices."
#7
Guns are strictly controlled in Japan--right? It appears that criminals disregard gun control laws. Gun control laws are a crock of shit. They don't do anything but disarm honest citizens. Rosie O'Donnell, a big advocate of gun control used armed security. So the liberal elite think it is O.K. for them to hire people who are armed but the rest of us are not smart enough or good enough to do the same. The hypocrisy of the people who espouse gun control is what is disgusting.
MULTAN, Pakistan - Four brothers were hanged on Tuesday at a prison in central Pakistan for slaughtering 13 members of their own family over a land dispute, officials said. The four were executed in the central city of Multan after President Pervez Musharraf rejected their plea for clemency, jail superintendent Mubashar Malik said, adding the bodies were handed over to their mother.
The brothers, named as Khuda Bakhsh, Muhammad Asghar, Muhammad Akram and Muhammad Iqbal, were convicted of the murderous rampage in 1999 after their uncle refused to sell a plot of land, police said. Their 13 victims included women and a three-month-old baby, police said.
Rat bastards.
Their father was arrested with them, but died in prison during the trial. Pakistans Supreme Court and Lahore High Court had both turned down appeals by the four brothers.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/18/2007 00:00 ||
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The United States is correct in defending its values in the war against terror, a New York Times best-selling author and one of Europes foremost critics of Islam contended Tuesday at Pitt-Johnstown. Ayaan Hirsi Ali told a crowd of more than 200 at the Pasquerilla Performing Arts Center that the Islamic faith is incompatible with the principles on which open, liberal societies are based.
She said individual Muslims have a variety of outlooks: Some can be fanatical and ignorant; others are capable of distinguishing between the common space of a secular government and the private home. Yet, she contended, the number of Muslims who believe their faith should be imposed on others is growing. She said the U.S. is correct in dealing with the religions fanatics, something she contended Europeans failed to do when extremists appeared there.
Hirsi Ali drew plenty of applause during her speech. I found it very enlightening, said Mary Anne Bell, of South Fork. Barbara Sloat, a teacher at Richland High School, said Hirsi Ali was sending a message for America to continue to stand up for and protect its values.
After her speech, Hirsi Ali said members of the Islamic Center of Johnstown who opposed her appearance have the right to voice their opinions. Mahmood A. Qazi, founder and past president of the center, said Monday he was concerned Hirsi Alis appearance would strain relations between local Muslims and non-Muslims. I dont want this woman to create dissension among us, he said of why the center had pressed the the college to cancel Hirsi Alis appearance.
#2
a New York Times best-selling author and one of Europes foremost critics of Islam
Because the second merely modifies the ever so much more important first. I'm being petty, I know, but I find that amusing. Ms. Ali is doing a wonderful and important thing by going out into the countryside to speak on this subject, and I'm grateful to her for it.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
The mayor of the Japanese city of Nagasaki died early on Wednesday after being shot by a member of a criminal syndicate, police said. Itcho Ito, 61, seeking re-election for a fourth term on Sunday, was shot at least twice in the back outside his campaign office just before 8 p.m. (1100 GMT) on Tuesday. Police arrested Tetsuya Shiroo, 59, a senior member of a local gang affiliated with Japan's largest crime syndicate, the Yamaguchi Gumi, and seized a revolver he had with him.
MULTAN, Pakistan - Four brothers were hanged on Tuesday at a prison in central Pakistan for slaughtering 13 members of their own family over a land dispute, officials said. The four were executed in the central city of Multan after President Pervez Musharraf rejected their plea for clemency, jail superintendent Mubashar Malik said, adding the bodies were handed over to their mother.
