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2007-04-18 -Lurid Crime Tales-
Roundup: the Virginia Tech murderer
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Posted by trailing wife 2007-04-18 00:00|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 I've been monitoring South Korean newspapers and forums; and the majority of their opinions seem to suggest that they chalk this up to the "American Way of Life' or a 'Western Society Thing'. However I also noted how you don't hear about this type of activity occurring there even on an occasional basis! Could it have something to do with parental responsibility and eventual blame there from??
Posted by smn 2007-04-18 01:58||   2007-04-18 01:58|| Front Page Top

#2 I still maintain that key words like "charlatans", "moral laxity" and the like justify concerns about Cho being part of Syung Myung Moon's cult. Fear not, I'm making no attempt to equate Moon with Christianity, no matter how much Moon does himself. The Reunification Church is a cult, pure and simple. The inappropriate photographing, stalking, dorm arson and lurid scriptwriting should have set off a few warning bells as well.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-04-18 02:09||   2007-04-18 02:09|| Front Page Top

#3 I send my heartfelt sorrow and wishes for your comfort, all those affected. What a horrible tragedy.

I know many Americans consider gun ownership a right, but honestly in countries where it's difficult to get a gun and you need a licence to do it for sport or because you are a farmer, there are a lot less shooting accidents and deaths.

You need a licence to drive a car, you should need a licence to own a gun - keep info on a national database and crosscheck with other databases. That way you can check if someone suffers from mental illness or is a convicted felon and simply revoke their firearm licence and their firearms. Wont catch everyone but should screen out some of the nutters.
Posted by anon1 2007-04-18 03:22||   2007-04-18 03:22|| Front Page Top

#4 but honestly in countries where it's difficult to get a gun and you need a licence to do it for sport or because you are a farmer, there are a lot less shooting accidents and deaths.

Yes, and the disarmed citizens of those countries are highly dependent upon their militaries and law enforcement for protection against threats, be they criminal or foreign. Such vulnerability in a citizenry does not encourage responsiveness in a government. Once they have control, it is rarely relinquished voluntarily.

I would much rather endure the slight increase in danger to my well being and sleep well at night knowing that I had it within my means to stop and, if need be, kill anyone who wanted to harm me or my loved ones. It has been said elsewhere and I certainly agree that, as Islamists overtake their nations, many Europeans will soon enough regret their strict gun controls.

Examine totalitarian regimes like Soviet Russian and communist China. One of the first things they do is strip their citizens of weapons. A government unconfronted by the prospect of an armed and disgruntled population is a government that is free to impose any sort of tyranny.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-04-18 03:43||   2007-04-18 03:43|| Front Page Top

#5 anon1, shooting accident? So in your view, the nutcase "accidentally" shot 33 people?

You are apparently totally confused by your particular country successfull educayshun, when you readily compare apples and oranges. Please, reneg and use your attrofied discerning faculties.
Posted by twobyfour 2007-04-18 03:47||   2007-04-18 03:47|| Front Page Top

#6 PIMF, atrophied.

/tourette syndrome coda omitted
Posted by twobyfour 2007-04-18 03:53||   2007-04-18 03:53|| Front Page Top

#7 The joys of living in a Firearms Free Zone.
Posted by gromgoru 2007-04-18 06:27||   2007-04-18 06:27|| Front Page Top

#8 in countries where it's difficult to get a gun and you need a licence to do it for sport or because you are a farmer, there are a lot less shooting accidents and deaths.

I believe Australia counts as one of those countries, right? Remember the Cronulla "riot" that was followed by the members of a local mosque driving around, beating people up?

One of the other things the local Muslims was doing was waving around pistols. In public. In plain view. And nothing was done about it.

The only people disarmed by gun laws are the honest people, the people you can count on to stop this kind of thing. Look up "Appalachian School of Law", or how Charles Whitman was kept from killing as many people as Cho did.

There are millions of defensive uses of firearms in the US every year. Most of the time, no shots are fired, and as a result they're not news. Even if there are shots fired, even if the criminal is shot in self defense, the story usually disappears because it's not unusual and it doesn't fit the story the press wants to hear.

You may also want to research how the Israelis dissuaded the Palestinians from shooting up schools full of kids.
Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford  2007-04-18 06:54|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2007-04-18 06:54|| Front Page Top

#9 Of course, where there are no guns there are fewer shooting accidents. But more other kinds of accidents, the accident-prone being after all prone to accidents. And while there are fewer gun-related crimes, there are more of other kinds of crime, criminals being likewise drawn to committing... crimes. In fact, if one compares the rate of rapes in Paris, Sydney and New York City (where a great many people own guns even though the mayor disapproves), I strongly suspect that the NYC rate is lower. If one adds in the major cities of Scandinavia as well...

The mayor of Nagasaki was shot dead yesterday; his predecessor in office was apparently shot as well. All of Japan is supposed to be a gun-free zone, excepting the military. I'm certain the mayor's family find that comforting.

anon1, you are a darling and your condolences are appreciated. The other bit was both thoughtless and extremely rude, two behaviours we are not accustomed to from you. As for the meat of your comments: Mr. Cho's background was checked in the FBI database. He came back clean because he had never committed a crime (it's illegal for convicted criminals to own guns). Mental illness is considered a personal medical matter in the US, so such information is not in any database; nonetheless, Mr. Cho was being treated for depression, which as far as I know does not generally lead to mass murder. On the other hand, those intent on mass murder will use whatever tools they have on hand. There was a gentleman in England(?) recently, who liked to hit people over the head with a shovel, then feed them to his pigs. Which, then, should Australia ban, anon1 dear: shovels or piggeries?
Posted by trailing wife 2007-04-18 07:05||   2007-04-18 07:05|| Front Page Top

#10 "I know many Americans consider gun ownership a right, but honestly in countries where it's difficult to get a gun and you need a licence to do it for sport or because you are a farmer, there are a lot less shooting accidents and deaths."

A half-century ago, when I was young, we had virtually NO gun control of any kind. Anyone aged 18 or older could go into any store that sold guns, anywhere, and walk out with the firearm of his choice not five minutes later. Nor did we have any of these Virginia Tech massacres. The first such incident was the 1966 "Texas Clocktower" shooting spree by Charles Whitman, and it shocked the entire nation.

Today we are far more restrictive on gun ownership, both with regard to the types of guns people are permitted to buy and who can buy them.

If there's any correlation at all between gun control and gun violence in America, it is a negative one.

"...That way you can check if someone suffers from mental illness or is a convicted felon and simply revoke their firearm licence and their firearms. Wont catch everyone but should screen out some of the nutters."

We ALREADY do that. Any time I go to a gun store and purchase a handgun, there is a lengthy questionnaire I have to fill out, and then a long wait while my answers are checked for veracity against State and Federal databases. And the list of conditions under which a person is prohibited from owning a gun is VERY long.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2007-04-18 07:27||   2007-04-18 07:27|| Front Page Top

#11 anon1, why is there no amendment to the constitution establishing a right to drive, or more historically appropriate, a right to ride a horse or wagon? Guns are different, I agree. They are more important.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-04-18 08:00||   2007-04-18 08:00|| Front Page Top

#12 Anon1:
Let's continue the analogy futher. With a driver's license, I can go and buy or rent as many cars as I want. I can get one with no waiting period. I can get one as big or small, or as powerful, as I want. There is no limit on the number of cars I can use a month.

Only people who actually seriously misuse a car lose their licenses.
Posted by Jackal">Jackal  2007-04-18 08:37|| http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]  2007-04-18 08:37|| Front Page Top

#13 Let’s see. Somewhere, say Tongduchon, a GI is driving a 5 ton military truck on a delivery or as part of military exercise. A young Korean on a bicycle cuts in front of him, instantly joining his ancestors. The nationalist immediately mobilize blaming the entire American armed forces and America for the death. Mass anti-American demonstrations are held around the university. The one in Seoul follows the usual story line of demonstrators, police, Molotov cocktails, etc. Politicians make promises to reduce the American presence in country. American troops are locked down on the bases and no training is permitted for several weeks or months.

Now, a Korean student butchers several dozen American students on an American campus. Guess what you’re going to see. Blame America, of course.
Posted by Procopius2k 2007-04-18 08:53||   2007-04-18 08:53|| Front Page Top

#14 The inappropriate photographing, stalking, dorm arson and lurid scriptwriting should have set off a few warning bells as well.

Zenster: It has been reported his creative writing professor (if I have the story straight) went so far as to report his disturbing behavior to campus security. The problem is quite what security could have done about it at that point. And, in fairness to them, what could they do?

To me so much of the conversation around these events mirrors our culture's passivity in the face of threats of violence from all the usual suspects. From the hang-wringing about guns and violence to the cries not to "blame" so many of the victims for failing to defend themselves to the sick logic that would leave this creep free to plot his work for fear of unjustly preempting him. We need to develop a thorough-going sense of self-preservation and get our priorities in order.
Posted by Excalibur 2007-04-18 09:30||   2007-04-18 09:30|| Front Page Top

#15 This poor bastard was obviously & profoundly disturbed. He had issues for a long time and I find it amazing that his parents had never done anything to intervene.

Oh and the manner in which the S. Korean press is handling this should surprise no one.

Posted by RJB in JC MO 2007-04-18 09:40||   2007-04-18 09:40|| Front Page Top

#16 Zenster - where did you find the bit about him being a Moonie?

The boy is an "English" student and butchers "Engineers" in a classroom he has never attended. His writings rail against debauchery but "engineers and debauchery" are not words that go together.

This was one seriously schizoid boy. The wife, who works with such folks, says he should have been in a lock-up facility. His symptoms were to strange for a group home or any part of society.

Posted by 3dc 2007-04-18 10:11||   2007-04-18 10:11|| Front Page Top

#17 a lengthy, rambling and bitter list of complaints focusing on moral laxity and double-dealing he found among what he viewed as wealthier and more privileged students on campus.

One might think he'd been reading ABC's Terry Moran.
Posted by Pappy 2007-04-18 10:19||   2007-04-18 10:19|| Front Page Top

#18 From the AP via the Columbus Dispatch we get a little more info about that "note":

A law-enforcement official who read the note described it yesterday as a typed, eight-page rant against rich kids and religion.

"You caused me to do this," the official quoted the note as saying.

Cho indicated in his letter that the end was near and that there was a deed to be done, the official said. He also expressed disappointment in his own religion, and made several references to Christianity, the official said.


There's more to come, I'm sure.
Posted by mrp 2007-04-18 10:25||   2007-04-18 10:25|| Front Page Top

#19 I blame the failure to deal with this squarely on the HIPAA laws!

Posted by 3dc 2007-04-18 10:33||   2007-04-18 10:33|| Front Page Top

#20 Those that exploit tragedies, such as this, as a conduit for their personal politics need to be vigorously exposed. In the wake of this event Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, (D-NY) has already voiced her intention to resurrect legislation in the US house for stricter gun laws. Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) is already seeking to “hold hearings” on the shooting. And The Anti-Gun lobby has already begun a full court press calling for Brady Bill to be re-introduced. As per usual, their logic will be challenged and as before will be proven to be both folly and Un-Constitutional. However, given the timing of their actions, it should not be out of bounds to question their motivations as less then altruistic.
Posted by DepotGuy 2007-04-18 10:38||   2007-04-18 10:38|| Front Page Top

#21 HIPAA is more at fault than any gun law.
Without HIPAA this guy would have been properly noticed with records and maybe forced into a nut house.

Posted by 3dc 2007-04-18 10:41||   2007-04-18 10:41|| Front Page Top

#22 WRT the South Korean media:

Maybe I'm all wet, but when I heard the outline of the crime, I thought the style was American.

If I hear about a mass murder and it is:


  • A suicide explosion among civilians

    Maybe this was pioneered by Hindus, but the ROP have taken to it like ducks to water. Almost certainly an ROP crime.

  • A team going about slaughtering people

    Very tribal--Rwanda or St. Peters in Monrovia or Klansmen or Zebra killers, but ROP folks indulge too (Beslin). Here in the US these days I'd guess ROP unless it was obviously gang-related.

  • Big bomb

    I can see the scar in Sterling Hall out my window. Tossup whether a big bomb is from a homegrown killer or an ROP one.

  • Poisoning food/water

    Not a clue. (Unless it was anthrax, which limits the suspects some)

  • Lone gunman in a personal Ragnarok

    Generally seems to be an American. (Possible sampling bias here, of course)


I tried Googling to see if I could figure out if Koreans went in for this sort of thing too, but couldn't arrive at any conclusions. Maybe they're right about it being something he learned here; and that back in Korea he'd have chosen a different approach to murder.

Posted by James">James  2007-04-18 11:00|| http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com]">[http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com]  2007-04-18 11:00|| Front Page Top

#23 Dr. Helen has another of a series of posts on such mass murderers -- fascinating stuff. But germane to the point you raise, James, it seems that the South Koreans are not immune to such behaviour (from a post on the day of the murders):

It seems that everyone is blaming the "American gun culture" on what happened but perhaps Cho Seung-Hui took his cues from another infamous mass murderer, Woo Bum-Kon, also from Korea:

Bum-Kon had an argument with his live-in girlfriend in the afternoon of April 26, 1982. Enraged, he left the house and went to the police armory, where he began consuming large amounts of whiskey. He became moderately drunk, raided the police armory of its weapons and built a personal arsenal. Bum-Kon then stole a single high-powered rifle and some grenades and left the armory. It was by this point around dinner time. He walked from house to house, and abused his position as a police officer to make people feel safe and gain entry to the home. Then he shot the victims, or killed the entire family with a grenade. He continued this pattern for the next eight hours, and into the early morning hours of April 27.

Bum-Kon committed the worse mass murder in known history, killing 58 people--could the Virginia shooter have been trying to do the same?
Posted by trailing wife 2007-04-18 12:02||   2007-04-18 12:02|| Front Page Top

#24 Here are some mass-killings that killed far more people without anyone being shot:

The Bath School Disaster - 45 dead and 58 injured (one gunshot fired to detonate a bomb).

The Happy Land Social Club arson - 87 killed with just a few dollars worth of gasoline.

And, of course, the Oklahoma City bombing - 168 dead and 800+ injured.

Outlawing guns only keeps them out of the hands of the law-abiding, i.e. the victims, and it doesn't stop any psycho from killing by other means.
Posted by Dar">Dar  2007-04-18 12:49||   2007-04-18 12:49|| Front Page Top

#25 This poor bastard was obviously & profoundly disturbed. He had issues for a long time and I find it amazing that his parents had never done anything to intervene.

Easier said than done. Once a child becomes a teenager, when these problems usually manifest - absent a precipitating legal incident that can cause a court to order some form of rehab or incarceration - the options for parents are few. You can get a professional to recommend/approve lock-up (provided you can get the kid to go to counseling), but you're on your own as far as getting the kid there is concerned. Essentially, if the kid's not willing (and how many of such teens are?) you basically have to kidnap your own kid and physically force him into the facility.
Posted by xbalanke 2007-04-18 13:36||   2007-04-18 13:36|| Front Page Top

#26 Some interesting links:
Hot Air
This Is London
Posted by trailing wife 2007-04-18 13:40||   2007-04-18 13:40|| Front Page Top

#27 Can we please stop trying to compare the United States to nations such as Japan, Korea, or any European nation? I've seen enough of all of them to know that they are profoundly different - different history, different culture, different geography (yes, that's important), different form of government, different ethnic make-up (Japan, Korea, and most European countries are primarily composed of only one race, culture, religion, etc. The US has 'em all). It makes no sense to compare the United States with Britain(about the same size and twice the population of California), France (the size of Texas, but far more uniform in climate and geography), Japan (about 1/20 the size of the US, 1/3 or more of the population), and so forth. The citizens of the United States have the greatest amount of personal liberty of any nation on Earth. What we consider a poverty level would be considered moderately rich in half the countries of the world. The US and China are about the same size, but the US has 300 million people, while China has 1.2 BILLION.

Mr. Cho was a distinctly sick individual. We will probably never know everything that was percolating through this man's mind, or why he engaged in this unbelievably dastardly act. To blame the incident on a "gun culture", or as he alluded to, "debauchery" and "arrogance", is nonsense. The citizens of the United States are free to do whatever they wish, as long as they don't bring harm to others. Mr. Cho crossed that line. He is singularly responsible for his behavior and his actions. Trying to redirect that responsibility to "others", or to differences in cultures or mores, is simply wrong.
Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot  2007-04-18 14:44|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]  2007-04-18 14:44|| Front Page Top

#28 Zenster - where did you find the bit about him being a Moonie?

Pure personal speculation evoked by the explicitly sermonizing language used by Cho. While I certainly hope that this cannot be pasted onto America's Christian community, South Korea's "Christian" community is another matter entirely.

Syung Myung Moon has become an increasingly problematic player in conservative politics. His dubiously acquired wealth is spread throughout many pet Republican and Christian fundamentalist causes.
But Moon's secret financial ties to Falwell raise some sensitive political questions, particularly amid congressional hearings on foreign money influencing U.S. politics: For instance, did the $3.5 million from Moon's front group give Falwell the means to become a national pitchman for "The Clinton Chronicles" and other conspiracy-mongering videos which fingered President and Mrs. Clinton in a wide range of serious crimes, including murder? During the period of the Liberty bail-out, Falwell was using his expensive TV time to hawk the videos.

When The Roanoke Times & World News interviewed Falwell about the bail-out, the televangelist sat at his desk in front of two life-size, full-color cutouts of Bill and Hillary Clinton, whom he jokingly called his "advisers." The cut-outs were gifts from Liberty staffers in recognition of Falwell's success in distributing the Clinton-hating videos. [RT&WN, Feb. 6, 1995]

Many of those lurid right-wing conspiracy theories have since been discredited, including allegations connecting the Clintons to the death of deputy White House counsel Vincent Foster. But the Falwell-promoted videos did feed a Clinton scandal fever that helped the Republicans seize control of Congress in 1994.

Moon's largesse is additionally suspect because Moon has never publicly accounted for his mysterious source of wealth. Much of the money apparently comes from shadowy Asian industrialists, some with links to organized crime and fascist political circles. But Moon has refused to open his books, even in the late 1970s when a congressional investigation identified his church as a front for the South Korean CIA, which was then engaged in a secret political influence-buying scheme known as "Korea-gate."

Falwell also might have been shy about disclosing his alliance with Moon because the Korean's theology upsets many Christians. Moon asserts that Satan corrupted mankind by sexually seducing Eve in the Garden of Eden and that only through sexual purification can mankind be saved. In line with that doctrine, Moon says Jesus failed in his mission to save mankind because he did not procreate.

Moon sees himself as a second messiah who will not make the same mistake. He has engaged in sex with a variety of women over the decades. The total number of his offspring is a point of debate inside the Unification Church.

Moon's rhetoric has turned stridently anti-American, another problem for the Religious Right and its strongly patriotic positions. On May 1, 1997, Moon told a group of followers that "the country that represents Satan's harvest is America." [ Unification News, June 1997] In other sermons, he has vowed that his victorious movement will "digest" any American who tries to maintain his or her individuality. He especially has criticized American women who must "negate yourself 100 percent" to be a receptacle for the male seed. [For details of Moon's speeches, see The Consortium, July 28, 1997]

Still, despite his controversial remarks, Moon continues to buy friends on the American right -- as well as among African-American religious figures -- by spreading around vast sums of money. The totals are estimated in the billions of dollars, with much of it targeted on political infrastructure: direct-mail operations, video services for campaign ads, professional operatives and right-wing media outlets.
[emphasis added]

Cho's heinous acts appear to be nothing more than a predictable extension of self-proclaimed messiah and cult king Moon's dangerous ravings. If Cho's parents are members of Moon's Unification Church it would go a long way towards explaining the devastation at Virginia Tech.

America was ill prepared for the advent of Moon's cult. Much as it still remains unready to cope with yet another cult that poses an equal if not far greater threat. Namely, that of Islam. Both of these apocalyptic groups flew below radar in America's tolerant religious melting pot and have become antagonistic to our national interests. Due to recent republican political ascendancy, Moon was allowed far greater latitude that he might otherwise received. One of Moon's sub-organizations rewarded former President Bush quite handsomely after leaving office: (from the same link)
I discovered this Moon-Falwell connection while looking for something else: how much Moon's Women's Federation for World Peace had paid former President George Bush for a series of speeches in Asia in 1995. I obtained the federation's Internal Revenue Service records but discovered that Bush's undisclosed speaking fee was buried in a line item of $13.6 million for conference expenses.
[emphasis added]

If our politicians cannot begin to more accurately sort amongst those who compete for the very souls of American youth, our nation stands at far greater risk than it ever did during the Cold War.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-04-18 14:44||   2007-04-18 14:44|| Front Page Top

#29 Zenster: It has been reported his creative writing professor (if I have the story straight) went so far as to report his disturbing behavior to campus security. The problem is quite what security could have done about it at that point. And, in fairness to them, what could they do?

Coupled with the inappropriate under-desk photography, stalking and dorm arson, I'd say that the school had plenty of grounds for dismissing or expelling Cho. While any single one of these offenses might have escaped the notice of authorities, in combination they form a disturbing composite pointing towards a potentially unstable individual.

Please note that I refuse to blame "gun culture" or any such hogwash. I have questioned the inability of Cho's victims to more vigorously defend themselves, but when all is said and done, it is Cho himself who carries the vast burden of guilt.

I still remain quite concerned over the possibility of Cho having been subjected to any pseudo-religious programming. My preceding post deals with that notion.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-04-18 14:55||   2007-04-18 14:55|| Front Page Top

#30 Let me say something controversial.

This is obviously a guy who has sexual problems, beyond any depression/general weirdness.

If prostitution was safely available to him, he might have partaken in some 'horizontal pleasures', and that would have probably change him completely. I'm a big believer that the physical companionship of women changes a man. Especially emotionally. Especially if he is young.

It's a rare maniac that has a normal sex life. The Unabomber, Tim McVeigh, every fucking murderous jihadi.

Now obviously prostitution has its problems, and I am a big believer in communities values based on traditional American family values. I'm just bringing up this point.

Posted by Penguin 2007-04-18 15:02||   2007-04-18 15:02|| Front Page Top

#31 Why can't we all just get laid along?
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-04-18 15:10||   2007-04-18 15:10|| Front Page Top

#32 The inappropriate photographing, stalking, dorm arson and lurid scriptwriting should have set off a few warning bells as well.

I read someplace that the girl who was being stalked refused to press charges. Would things be different if she had?

Here's a clue, gals (& guys), if someone commits a crime against you - and stalking is a crime - prosecute. I can't for the life of me figure out why someone won't press charges against a stalker but would have no problem pressing charges against a purse-snatcher. Which one causes more harm in both the short and the long run?

"Feeling sorry" for a criminal is stupid.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut  2007-04-18 15:19|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]  2007-04-18 15:19|| Front Page Top

#33 I think it's a wild goose chase to go off on the Moonies. Penguin has a better explanation with sexual frustration. Asian males are on the lowest rung of sexual desirability in this country while Asian females top the desirability list. That creates a huge sexual imbalance in the Asian community and a lot of frustration for Asian men. In addition, Cho's teenage development was most likely as an outsider, with a lot of Korean mores and customs already ingrained and not quite picking up American social skills, compounding the low desirability quotient. Add to that the legendary Korean stubbornness and hostility and a stifling family life, and you get a bat shit crazy personality feeding on itself.
Posted by ed 2007-04-18 16:25||   2007-04-18 16:25|| Front Page Top

#34 In some ways this reminds me of Columbine. Especially the part about the neighbors hearing the 2 kids assembling the bombs for several days before the killings. It's also interesting to remember that the students at Columbine were expecting those guys to go on a killing spree.

However the rule against "tattling" kept the 2 killers safe. The one good thing that came out of Columbine is that kids and parents learned is: "If somebody is threatening mass murder, tell the authorities". Several plots have been stopped because the Police were notified and took it seriously.

What I hope it that students and faculty will learn from this and notify Police if appears to be violently crazy. The fact that the creative writing teachers requested a psych "intervention" with this guy is remarkable. In fact, I've never heard of another case of this. This should have been a warning for the Campus Police to keep a close eye on him.

Unfortunately the "anything goes" ethos that pervades most college campuses allowed Mr. Cho to blend in until he went on his killing spree.

Al
Posted by Frozen Al 2007-04-18 16:50||   2007-04-18 16:50|| Front Page Top

#35 I'm a big fan of The Anchoress (theanchoressonline.com) - a brilliant writer, mom, wife, and a resident of suburban NYC. Some of you may know that she's had a bout of illness, but she's recovered enough to post a VT Massacre piece .

Here is an excerpt that describes a part of her character that I hadn't known before. Now that I do, it doesn't really surprise me :)

A quick confession: I was not always clumsily arthritic girl; for reasons that are not worth getting into, I have some expertise in the field of blade-wielding (take your best guess, maybe I was a carnival girl who got knives thrown at her in a past life). Once, answering a question on a long car ride, I had occasion to explain to Buster how vital it is for a short woman like me to have a spring-loaded blade delivered quickly to my hand so that I could then thrust it into a pericardium from below the ribcage. I showed him where the sternum extends and I advised him that it’s always dicey to attack from above (unless you’re taller than your opponent, and going for the jugular) as the ribcage would get in the way of the blade and the resulting shock up the arm can cost you your life. [Edited upon reconsideration; I’m not comfortable thinking I may be giving anyone ideas - admin] Finally, I described how one cleanly slit brachial artery (and a severing of the brachial nerve) can render an arm useless while bringing things to a fairly quick, if bloody, conclusion…[another edit - on second thought, maybe I don’t want to write all of these things out.]

Buster’s initial reaction was that Mom was kind of a scary broad, but a few minutes later he said, “teach me that stuff…”

No, I don’t intend to train my son to the blade, nor do I recommend anyone else do it. But, this all has me thinking…in a perfect world, we should not need weapons, nor fighting science…and yet as we see, daily, the world is an imperfect place, and all of our best impulses toward peace may be thwarted at any time by someone with another idea. My son is not exactly a kid who wanders around wondering how he can kill people with the tools at hand, and I’d certainly prefer that he bring his mind around to “restraining and detaining” a bad guy rather than taking his or her life, but sometimes I wonder if we have gone too far in teaching our children that “fighting is bad.”


Read the whole thing.
Posted by mrp 2007-04-18 17:16||   2007-04-18 17:16|| Front Page Top

#36  I'm a big fan of The Anchoress (theanchoressonline.com) - a brilliant writer, mom, wife, and a resident of suburban NYC.

I just want to second that view. I'm a regular visitor there and always come away refreshed. Not that she's all fluffy bunnies and pie-in-the-sky, but she has a way of clearing the air with a distinctly otherworldly perspective.
Posted by xbalanke 2007-04-18 17:45||   2007-04-18 17:45|| Front Page Top

#37  Buster’s initial reaction was that Mom was kind of a scary broad, but a few minutes later he said, “teach me that stuff…”

I bet Buster really said: "Mother, teach me the weirding way ..."
Posted by mrp 2007-04-18 17:59||   2007-04-18 17:59|| Front Page Top

#38 Add to that the legendary Korean stubbornness and hostility and a stifling family life, and you get a bat shit crazy personality feeding on itself.

Im betting ed has it.
Posted by Shipman">Shipman  2007-04-18 18:22||   2007-04-18 18:22|| Front Page Top

#39 Anyone notice how Cho looks like Kim Jung Mentally Ill? Not that they all look alike but...
Posted by Grigum and Tenille6799 2007-04-18 19:03||   2007-04-18 19:03|| Front Page Top

#40 However the rule against "tattling" kept the 2 killers safe.

I disagree, Al. Those Columbine nutcases were in trouble with the law, had counseling, and at least one was prescribed medication well before the massacre. And we're all becoming familiar with Cho's prior run-ins with the law and his professors that sent him to counseling.

This wasn't about anybody refusing to tattle. It was about the lack of power or the lack of perception on behalf of the professionals who dealt with Cho to get him the treatment and/or removal from society that he needed.
Posted by Dar">Dar  2007-04-18 20:18||   2007-04-18 20:18|| Front Page Top

#41 Zenster: Indeed the school could have expelled this guy. But, and I do not mean to be snide here, expelling the man would not put a magic safety bubble between him and campus any more than Virginia Tech's gun free campus regulations did.

I am thinking more along the lines of: In fairness, what could campus security have done when the obvious answer would be to put him down like a rabid dog. I gather from at least one report that large numbers of his fellow students refused to attend class with him and a poetry prof threatened to quit rather than teach him. If this is true, it seems to me everybody knew exactly what this guy was capable of and nothing was done to preempt his actions. And - my point again - under the law what on earth could campus security have done?

Laws, norms and expectations of our individual and collective duties all need to change. This was one nut. We have 1.2 billion dark ages religious maniacs who want to do the same to us and worse. At least one pack of them have nuclear weapons.
Posted by Excalibur 2007-04-18 22:51||   2007-04-18 22:51|| Front Page Top

#42 what could campus security have done when the obvious answer would be to put him down like a rabid dog.

Just that.

We have 1.2 billion dark ages religious maniacs who want to do the same to us and worse. At least one pack of them have nuclear weapons.

See above. We are in lock step, Excalibur.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-04-18 23:52||   2007-04-18 23:52|| Front Page Top

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