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Europe
VDH : Today’s Euro-USA Split Will Persist
by Victor Davis Hanson
The American Enterprise

The new chasm between Europe and the United States seems to widen still — even as transatlantic diplomats assure us that it has narrowed — despite a common heritage and a supposedly shared goal of global democracy, free markets, and defeating terrorists.

Europeans sell arms to autocratic China that will threaten democratic Taiwan. They legitimize the terrorists of Hamas and Hezbollah, and mostly caricature the American efforts at democratizing the Middle East. All this follows the past appeasement of Yasser Arafat, strife over the Kyoto Protocol and the International Criminal Court, and the use of the United Nations to hamstring the United States in the war that followed 9/11.

What is behind this divide? Is it that the U.S. is militarily strong while the wealthy Europeans have made themselves essentially impotent — classic ingredients for deep seated envy?

Or did the close of the Cold War bring an end to the shared purposes that used to paper over the cracks of innate cultural differences? Americans tend to wish for less government and more personal freedom. They are more religious, aggressive, and acquisitive. Europeans instead prefer statism and an enforced equality of result. Far more of them are irreligious, pacifist, and more interested in leisure than in national progress and personal wealth. Now that they have no fear of the Soviet army, they have little need for us — or so they think.

Proponents of the old transatlantic alliance shrug and say things will improve. Some allege that George Bush’s cowboyism is to blame for the current rift. With a bit more astute diplomacy and softer voices — or someone like a French-speaking John Kerry as President — we could get along as well as in the past.

Really? Euro-U.S. relations may have returned to civility and even shared commitment after the recent terrorist attacks in Europe, but our real closeness is probably over. NATO is comatose — a Potemkin alliance without a mission. It has devolved into Americans trying to shame affluent Europeans into buying a few more planes to add to their dreadfully feeble fighting forces — which lack any reflection of the vast wealth and population of Europe.

The shaky European Union is as much driven by anti-Americanism as by pro-Europeanism. Only with unity comes the hope to rebuff the United States effectively. In response, it is far more likely that Americans will envision Germany and France less as friends than as rivals. Since our own European ancestors tamed the frontier in order to craft a nation that would in many ways be an antithesis to their home continent, this is not a big stretch.

Careful reading of American history does not suggest a natural U.S. partnership with Europe. Rather, our past shows frequent antipathy, punctuated several times by violent hostilities: most recently in 1898, 1914, and 1941. Apart from the special British American companionship, solidarity between the U.S. and continental Europe was more likely a Cold War exception, not the rule. For 50 years the United States stayed engaged with Europe specifically to ensure that intercontinental squabbles would never again devour American blood. The Soviet Union served as a sort of ancient Persia — an enemy colossus that kept feuding Greek city-states friendly for a while, until the common threat faded and their innate suspicion returned.

The United States is rapidly becoming a universal nation. Continuing immigration, our democratic society, our ethnic and racial assimilation, our common popular culture, our meritocracy, and shared material dreams have created equal and unified Americans out of nearly all the tribes and races of the globe. Europe, for all its socialist pretenses, is a much more stratified and narrow society, plagued with unassimilated minorities. It is hard to imagine a Colin Powell, Alberto Gonzales, or Condoleezza Rice running the key ministries of France, Italy, or Belgium.

For four out of ten Americans today, their physical and spiritual origins have nothing to do with Europe — they are offspring of Asia, Latin America, or Africa. Demographic and immigration realities mean that our ostensible blood link with Europe will continue to thin. Like it or not, more Americans are coming to know and care less about Europe and more about China, Korea, Mexico, India, and the Philippines. The teaching of French, German, and Italian is sliding, while Spanish and Chinese rise.

Red-state/Blue-state tension in America reflects a similar divergence between America and Europe. As the United States becomes more conservative, it increasingly sees Europe as a fringe San Francisco or Massachusetts, not a mainstream Grand Rapids or Ohio. Europe’s rhetorical intrusions into our recent Presidential election confirmed that Europeans often embrace agendas that bother Americans — pacifism, radical secularism, utopian environmentalism, blind support for the U.N., socialized health care, government steering of the economy, redefinition of marriage, strident abortion rights, and open euthanasia.

We are fooled somewhat by Europe’s trade surpluses, the strong euro, and rich entitlements. But under that surface lurk high unemployment, weak growth, and demographic crises that threaten to unhinge the Continental socialist utopia. As recent E.U. plebescites suggest, the future will bring great strains as Europe’s already heavily taxed northwest transfers huge amounts of capital to subsidize the integration of more religious, nationalistic Europeans far closer to potential harm on the Islamic and Asian frontier. Will a Belgian or Dane really feel national kinship with a distant Bulgarian, Ukrainian, or Turk in the years ahead?

The differences between American and European material wealth are now marked and growing — Americans increasingly enjoy larger homes, more cars, more appliances, cheaper food and energy, more advanced health care, and more disposable income. A recent European visitor to my farm, a member of the professional and affluent class, was stunned when I showed him the new suburban houses and multiple cars of first generation immigrants from Mexico living nearby — in the poorest section of one of the poorest inland counties of rural California. “They seem wealthier than I am!” he exclaimed. In a global sense they really are, even without the subsidized train tickets, day care payments, and a government-guaranteed six-week vacation.

Some transatlanticists will grant these endemic problems, but assure us that Europe’s problems will be self correcting, that more conservative reformers will eventually retake power and mimic the Reagan and Thatcher revolutions to prune back government largesse and encourage renewed self-reliance — noting in addition that we have the same enemy in Islamic fascism. Nothing in Europe’s history, however, suggests that a moderate response to the current maladies is likely.

Popular frustration over Islamic terrorism and unassimilated minorities may grow, and Europeans could become tired of appeasing extremist mullahs and terrorists and begin looking for principled opposition based on real military power. A few politicians may warn of the dangers of a future Europe with only one worker for one pensioner, of a self absorbed society where children, religious fraternity, and hard work are seen as retrograde, or caricatured as American.

But it is just as likely that any European counter-reaction will be unproductive. Instead of calling for more American-style assimilation and intermarriage, critics could prescribe strict isolation of Islamic minorities. Re-arming could make Europe even more hostile, rather than promoting Western unity. The longer work hours, reduced welfare subsidies, increased transparency, and economic flexibility needed by Europe might be received by the masses not as necessary medicine, but as foul concoctions forced down their throats by the hated American competition.

What can the United States do to mitigate the forthcoming estrangement? Several things:

• Withdraw as many American troops from the Continent as is not injurious to the global responsibilities of the United States. That will remind the Europeans that anti- American rhetoric has consequences, and that the pathology of the present teenager-parent relationship must end for both our sakes.

• Allow dissident Europeans to enjoy fast-track immigration to the United States. Welcoming folks from Europe who wish to join the American experience will send a powerful reminder to European elites that there were reasons their own people left their shores in the first place. Special warm immigration considerations for Europeans should replace the military alliances that used to knit us together.

• Quietly cultivate friendships with eastern European countries, and encourage stronger relations with countries that have signaled shared interests with the U.S., like Britain, Denmark, Holland, and Italy, all of which have reason to be wary of the French- German axis. At the same time, rely more on our cordial ties with Japan, Taiwan, India, and Australia — whose democratic societies, confident populations, and legitimate fears of a China armed by Europe equal our own.

• We must keep Europe in mind in all questions of U.N. reform. The European Union deserves one collective U.N. veto befitting its new transcontinental nationhood, not multiple votes as at present. India and Japan should assume their rightful places at the Security Council table next to the single European vote. And we should press for a General Assembly composed only of elected governments, rather than the present mix of democracies and rogue regimes that often look to Europe for tolerance, subsidies, and trendy anti-Americanism.

• Finally, we must seek out pragmatic Europeans who are tired of business as usual, and wish to reform their union in ways that will promote American affinity. They are out there, but overwhelmed at home, and ignored by American liberals in our universities, corporations, the State Department, and elsewhere. Through government programs, think tanks, military links, shared business interests, and grass-root exchanges we must make direct connections with the many millions of Europeans who share American ideals, but have no way of expressing them on a continent dominated by a small class of haughty elites.
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 10/02/2005 08:04 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Another excellent missive from VDH.

My main concerns are with unassimilated and growing immigrant populations (all the while playing the 'tolerance' card), the almost complete disregard of the populace by the elites (witness the response to the constitution fiasco - business as usual) and the sometimes palpable anti-Americanism feeling from the MSM.

And of course, lets not forget where the two most destructive wars in history were started from...

So I'm all in favour of the US following through with his 5 points - there are a lot of people in Europe that *don't* think the Franco-German "ever closer union" is appropriate, but when you're drowned out by the MSM, or political parties that are anti-EU or nationalist are declared illegal, then it makes it rather hard to get your viewpoint across.
Posted by: Tony (UK) || 10/02/2005 9:33 Comments || Top||

#2  I see a second division, and a recombination, in Britain. I believe much of the US-EU acrimony is driven by a deep-seated philosophical divide, best expressed in their different concept of government.

Continental Europe is cursed with both Napoleonic and Roman Law as their basis for government. The US and Britain, however, have their roots in Common Law. For this reason, Britain will eventually, and perhaps unavoidably, shy away from "foreign masters" in Brussels depriving them of "the rights of free-born Englishmen".

And the divide is deep. In essence, the Continental model is that "the government is the state, whose servants are the people", but the Common Law model is that "the people are the state, whose servants are the government."

This is expressed throughout both systems. On the Continent, "activities that are not specifically permitted by the government are unlawful"; unlike the American and British concept that "activities not specifically prohibited by the government are legal."

In the US and Britain, government is permitted to tax the peoples' money. On the Continent, the government owns all money, which it permits its citizens to use as it sees fit. A tax is a return to its rightful owner.

I see this Continental system as inherently flawed, and much to blame for Europe's perpetual malaise. However, the division between the Continent and Britain will only continue to worsen and become increasingly intolerant to the British.

The natural response is that Britain periodically strengthen its ties with the US, at the expense of the EU. Quite certainly, the momentum for further integration may have been dealt a death blow.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 10/02/2005 11:14 Comments || Top||

#3  great post
Posted by: 2b || 10/02/2005 13:02 Comments || Top||

#4  Tough Love©
Posted by: .com || 10/02/2005 13:05 Comments || Top||

#5  There is, unfortunately, an unusual amount of BS in that article and yes I know the status of VDH. A few comments:

Europeans sell arms to autocratic China that will threaten democratic Taiwan.

They do not. The arms embargo is in place and as long as China's aggressive stance persists, not likely to be lifted. Even if it were to be lifted strict controls are in place.

They legitimize the terrorists of Hamas and Hezbollah

They do not. Both organizations are branded as terrorist organizations. Being aware of their growing importance in the Palestine territories has nothing to do with "legitimizing" them.

What is behind this divide? Is it that the U.S. is militarily strong while the wealthy Europeans have made themselves essentially impotent — classic ingredients for deep seated envy?

No, most Europeans don't want to be a military power.

Or did the close of the Cold War bring an end to the shared purposes that used to paper over the cracks of innate cultural differences?

In some way, yes

Far more of them are irreligious, pacifist, and more interested in leisure than in national progress and personal wealth.

Well, that makes for an interesting debate. Do you prefer the bigger house and the bigger car to more time with your family, long holidays, travels, fun?

[NATO]It has devolved into Americans trying to shame affluent Europeans into buying a few more planes to add to their dreadfully feeble fighting forces — which lack any reflection of the vast wealth and population of Europe.

The strength of your defense force is not defined by your wealth or population but by the strength of the enemy you face. The enemy simply is not there.

In response, it is far more likely that Americans will envision Germany and France less as friends than as rivals.

The Franco-German thing is overrated, the EU is changing, and Germany is slowly developing more options.

blind support for the U.N., socialized health care, government steering of the economy, redefinition of marriage, strident abortion rights, and open euthanasia.

That's quite a stretch again. Support for the UN is anything but "blind", the worst health care is found in the UK, not in Germany (I prefer the German over the U.S. while Scandinavia beats us all, socialized or not)

to subsidize the integration of more religious, nationalistic Europeans

Didn't you just complain about how atheist we are?

Will a Belgian or Dane really feel national kinship with a distant Bulgarian, Ukrainian, or Turk in the years ahead?

Europe is not a nation

The differences between American and European material wealth are now marked and growing — Americans increasingly enjoy larger homes, more cars, more appliances, cheaper food and energy, more advanced health care, and more disposable income.

How large are homes in New York. And how large must a home be? How many cars do you need when you have excellent public transportation at your doorstep? Cheaper food? Not quality food. Burgers and fries are cheaper in the U.S., not the food at Freshfields. Advanced healthcare? Compared to Germany, I'm not so sure and you cannot run into bankruptcy with medical bills.

A recent European visitor to my farm, a member of the professional and affluent class, was stunned when I showed him the new suburban houses and multiple cars of first generation immigrants from Mexico living nearby — in the poorest section of one of the poorest inland counties of rural California. “They seem wealthier than I am!” he exclaimed.

Let's not exaggerate. Sure some make it, but the majority of Mexicans don't own multiple shiny new cars.

In a global sense they really are, even without the subsidized train tickets, day care payments, and a government-guaranteed six-week vacation.

Vacation time is about 27 days and it's not government-guaranteed but negotiated by the industries.


The longer work hours, reduced welfare subsidies, increased transparency, and economic flexibility needed by Europe might be received by the masses not as necessary medicine, but as foul concoctions forced down their throats by the hated American competition.

Not really. It's not American competition that has made workers accept longer hours and lower wages voluntarily, but competition from Eastern Europe and Asia.

Withdraw as many American troops from the Continent as is not injurious to the global responsibilities of the United States. That will remind the Europeans that anti- American rhetoric has consequences, and that the pathology of the present teenager-parent relationship must end for both our sakes.

Oh please, "punishing" Anti-Americans by reducing US troops? Riddle me that logic. The true Anti-Americans will cheer, a silent majority will just shrug and a few communities will be economically affected. But nobody will feel "less protected" after the last US soldier leaves.

Allow dissident Europeans to enjoy fast-track immigration to the United States.

Dear VDH, please check what a "dissident" is.

The European Union deserves one collective U.N. veto befitting its new transcontinental nationhood, not multiple votes as at present.

Maybe you should not wish for it. First of all its unrealistic, second if it ever comes to a joint EU veto, it will be decided by majority. America would prefer an obnoxious France to an obnoxious EU, believe me.

And we should press for a General Assembly composed only of elected governments

Most are "elected" VDH, who is going to decide who gets a place? And what about the "outcasts". They are more likely to hang together, with consequences that could be worse than having them in the UN.

Finally, we must seek out pragmatic Europeans who are tired of business as usual, and wish to reform their union in ways that will promote American affinity. They are out there, but overwhelmed at home, and ignored by American liberals in our universities, corporations, the State Department, and elsewhere. Through government programs, think tanks, military links, shared business interests, and grass-root exchanges we must make direct connections with the many millions of Europeans who share American ideals, but have no way of expressing them on a continent dominated by a small class of haughty elites.

I'll gladly take your check :-)
Posted by: True German Ally || 10/02/2005 18:04 Comments || Top||

#6  With respect, TGA, I demur from many of your assertions based both on observation and on direct and extended interaction with colleagues in many EU countries, including my spouse's large extended family in/from Germany.

I will start with the issue of the military since it is both illustrative and in many ways determinative of the attitudes I see dominate on the continent.

I wonder, for instance, if Europe isn't coming close to losing its ability to create a military force of its own. True enough, the EU would very much like to divide Britain and the other countries away from American interoperability. But when I look at your force structure, the attitudes of your leaders and over 30 years' experience in technical fields, I suspect it won't be long before it will be the Chinese selling military technology to Europe, as the Arabs sell oil.

You speak of no apparent threat. Many of the Europeans I know have substantial unease about threats they know are around them, the Arab world, immigration and the Chinese among the top ones. The solutions to these are difficult, require resolute will and a significant disruption of the status quo, and for that reason most of those same Europeans close their eyes and simply hope they can get through a comfortable last decade at work and into retirement before the continent turns into a 3rd rate ghetto. As more than 2/3 of those colleagues and extended family have no children (or grandchildren for the older ones) their time horizon for judging threats is distinctly short range.

I could quibble about details in your comments. 27 days is 5 1/2 work weeks, close to the 6 that VDH asserts, and while it is true that that is negotiated in Germany, negotiations occur under regulatory and corporate governance mechanisms which render this benefit simply not open to any real negotiation at all.

It is true that European garment factories face competition from the Chinese and the Turks, not the Americans. It is also true that the US system of competition stands symbolically in the European mind as the true source of cut-throat pressure on the EU way. One need only read the continental press - and German politician's speeches - to realize how deep the divide goes on that point.

Finally, as to tradeoffs between wealth and leisure, it is certainly true that there is a spectrum of benefit one might choose among. That is, one might do so here in the US. In Europe that spectrum is greatly constrained to one end of the spectrum.

I might be more impressed, nonetheless, by your argument of a better life style were it the case that most of the Europeans I know express joy and contentment. They do not, in fact. I regularly hear more optimism, enthusiasm and contentment from the Guatemalan immigrant who makes sandwiches at the deli near my office than I do from highly-paid, well-educated Europeans of my acquainance -- and far more than their adult children who are, in many cases, badly underemployed.

Europeans are and should be free to choose where and what they will do in this new century. I suspect VDH is correct, however, in saying that the chasm between the continent and the US has reappeared in fundamental ways and is unlikely to close of its own accord. At heart it is a matter of core values about self-determination and responsibility. Most Americans -- except those aligned with the European left -- assume that people are fundamentally responsible for their own choices and for the outcomes those choices produce. Such an idea has never take root on the continent since the classical days and I doubt I will see it do so in my remaining lifetime.
Posted by: Omerens Omaigum2983 || 10/02/2005 18:36 Comments || Top||

#7  Military threats to Europe:

There are none that warrant a heavy re-militarization of Europe unless Europe wants to be a military global player, intervening "cop" etc. Europe does not want to be that (at least not spend much money on it).

Islamism is a threat, but not a threat Europe will be able to thwart by boosting the military. The islamists are here, in our cities. Islamist nations may grow to be a threat, mainly by missiles, but then again, any nuclear missile threat could be contained by the French force de frappe alone. Should Germany come under a serious nuclear threat it could develop its own deterrence in a heartbeat. But no Iranian armies will march into Europe, no Chinese army will cross Siberia to get us. The challenge is an economic one.

As for the work hours, the counting is nonsense. Weekends are not holidays. Your employer doesn't pay you a dime more because of those weekends included in your holidays.

Many people actually don't take the full amount, many work overtime (often unpaid) in order to safeguard their jobs. The Economist has lauded Germany for bringing down production costs.

Unemployment is a real problem but benefits are getting cut, people who can work basically have to accept any job they are offered, and those who really don't want to work... well it maybe less costly to feed them than force them to work in something they are going to mess up anyway.

European countries need less regulations, less bureaucracy, a simple tax system etc. They need to encourage the immigration of young skilled (non Islamic) professionals.

We can do it. What holds us off is not that we are doing so bad, but because we aren't doing bad enough yet to feel the absolute urge for changes. But things are moving.

You know I'm a transatlanticist to the bones. But Europe and America will go partly joint, partly separate ways.

That's just the way it is.
Posted by: True German Ally || 10/02/2005 19:15 Comments || Top||

#8  I have to disagree with some of your points as well, TGA, with the caveat that I (we) lived in Germany (Bad Soden am Taunus) from 1991 to 1995, so my observations may be a bit out of date.

In order then:

The China arms embargo: there was an embargo against Iraq, voted on in the UN Security Council, and we all know how well Europe -- particularly France, Russia and Germany -- respected it. Just because the EU is officially embargoing the sale of arms and technology to Red China means, well, what exactly?

Hamas and Hezbollah: When was the last time EU representatives, or the representatives of EU countries (specifically France and Germany) called on officials of Hamas or Hezbollah? How often have they made the argument that there is a separation between the political and terrorist arms of these and similar organizations, when we know that, like the Irish IRA and Sinn Fein, the two are intimately intwined?

Most Europeans don't want to be a military power: but why does that mean the U.S. mustn't be permitted to be one either?

Do you prefer the bigger house and the bigger car to more time with your family, long holidays, travels, fun? Well, no, I don't. But Mr. Wife does. And he chooses to work long hours, not only because he enjoys his work, but so we can afford to fulfill both his desires and mine. In America we can have the discussion because both options are affordable to most people. Even a majority of those below the poverty line own their house (not home -- most Americans live in free standing houses). In most of Europe, people can't afford to think about the choice, because even renting a house or buying a flat is beyond their reach. And when, in Germany, Mr. Wife went to the office on the weekends in order to get some things done so that he'd be able to come home at supper time during the week, he was threatened with being called up before the Works (Labour?) Council. Again, a matter of having the choice to work longer hours or earn less over the course of one's career.

The Franco-German thing is overrated, the EU is changing, and Germany is slowly developing more options: I quite agree with you (in part because your commentary has shaped my opinions -- not an easy thing to do!). Unlike France's three centuries of anti-Americanism, Germany's is much more an unsupportable feeling of cultural superiority based on ignorance, and bolstered by the media and political elite. I was forever being told by the Germans I knew about the individual Americans they liked, even as the putative characteristics of the nation were being castigated. With a new government in place, German anti-Americanism will likely be much more muted.

Health care: I've experienced both American and German, even to the point of birthing a daughter in each country (see the lengths I will go to find actual evidence to support my assertations! ;-P ). For those with money, American is much better, even given that I had private insurance in Germany. It isn't the calibre of the medical staff that differs, but the overall care offered. My sister-in-law, whose husband owns a small business and is self-insured, had to decide whether she could afford to take her small children to the pediatrician (Kinderartzt) for all their little infections, and mostly didn't; but, they got all their innoculations, and have grown up to be healthy, happy young ladies. Should they have a real medical emergency, the entire family will help, if necessary. And they would pay us back as they became able.

The differences between American and European material wealth are now marked and growing: a great deal of the costs of things -- food, clothing, utilities, even entertainment -- has to do with the taxes imposed by the respective governments. Were it not for the significantly higher taxes imposed in Europe, the price differential would not be nearly so great. The other part of the cost differential has to do with economies of scale ... one of the reasons the EU went to the Euro.

America would prefer an obnoxious France to an obnoxious EU, believe me. I quite agree, and it looks like this is what will happen.

Forgive the lengthiness of this post, but I wanted to give a complete explanation of my positions. You deserve no less, dear TGA.
Posted by: trailing wife || 10/02/2005 19:40 Comments || Top||

#9  @trailing wife

1) Germany did not break the Iraq arms embargo. German businessmen who dealt in arms with Iraq in the 90s were prosecuted and quite a few are behind bars. One guy got a few years just for sending a fax offer to Iraq.
In France things are a bit murkier because government and industry are more closely connected but France did not break the embargo either (they might have turned a blind eye maybe)

2) Hamas and Hezbollah:
Both organizations are officially branded as terrorist. When Germany negotiated an exchange deal between dead Israeli soldiers and living Hezbollah prisoners, it did so at the request of Israel. Even Israel, you might argue, can't ignore the existence of those factions.

3) I don't think Europeans claim that the US cease to be a military power. Some are even afraid that you are overstretching

4) Europeans have the same choices re bigger house etc. Nobody stops them from working harder, working in the holidays, on Saturdays, making extra bucks. Nobody forces them either. That houses are cheaper in the US is true. Reasons for that are cheaper properties (more space available) and easier construction types (not the cellar-cement-built forever German style). Rents in New York or Washington are definitely not cheaper than Munich or Berlin.

5) Health care: The upper end is good everywhere, even in France. The US might even be better in that respect but also more expensive. I got some routine xrays in the US after a minor accident. They cost me 300$ cash. Asked my doctor back home. The same xrays would have cost me 120$ cash in Germany, but of course with insurance, nothing. The average worker pays maybe 80 dollars of medical insurance a month. I have seen a general hospital in DC and I would not want to repeat the experience. In Germany nobody, not even the poorest guy would go bankrupt after lengthy cancer treatments or the like.

6) Material wealth in Europe is not evenly distributed, not even in Germany. In Bavaria people do very well, there's trillions of Euros that will change hands by inheritance, and modern technology is booming, like biotech, solar energy etc. Machine consatruction is still going strong. And there are all those kids with IPods, designer clothes, new mobile phones... Yes our cars are smaller but then again we don't have many places to drive those trucks the way they were built for. And they consume less energy. In any big city we could even go without cars, and if we are indeed heading into a major energy crisis, that's not a bad thing. How many people in America could go to work with a bicycle?

Personally I believe that the world economy is heading into leaner time because of energy problems. The big house, the big car may not be so attractive if that happens.

Posted by: True German Ally || 10/02/2005 20:46 Comments || Top||

#10  How many people in America could go to work with a bicycle?

you'd be surprised TGA!

Look, Europe has many good things that we can't find in America and America has many good things you can't find in Europe.

American's don't dislike Germans. They dislike Germans who claim to be so enlightened and then let Americans keep the world safe for democracy. But before you get defensive - we don't like Americans, here at home who do the same thing. It doesn't include people like you who and many of your other countrymen.
Posted by: 2b || 10/02/2005 21:10 Comments || Top||

#11  Of course. "Quality of life" has different definitions. And it's not all defined by gadgets and money.

And yes, people who make believe that they "have eaten wisdom by the big spoon" are equally unpopular in Germany and in the U.S.

One thing you definitely need is to train drinking Bavarian beer before hitting the Oktoberfest!

(OK that goes for Italians, too)
Posted by: True German Ally || 10/02/2005 21:48 Comments || Top||

#12  Oddly enough, TGA, Mr. Wife went to Oktoberfest with some male friends, but without the children and me. It could perhaps be that I don't appreciate beer properly, even if I do like Ebbelwein in season. ;-) But even Oktoberfest is different here in America -- the Cincinnati, Ohio Oktoberfest is the second biggest in the world after Munich, but instead of drinking beer by the Mass, we stuff our bellies with gigantic cream puffs, deep fried sauerkraut balls, kartoffelpuffer, and similar delicacies. And the year round we go to the only other Hofbrauhaus in the world (thus far), just across the river in Kentucky, where they imported the proper waitresses from Bavaria to train the local girls.

I concede your point about German businessmen vs. the German government, although the two types seem somewhat more entwined in Germany than in the States, although significantly less entwined than in France, where there doesn't seem to be a real separation.

As for automobiles, it would be silly to have a minivan over there like I have here -- there'd be no place to park it! But all the business managers I knew (not just senior vice presidents, but those in middle management) drove 500 series BMWs or the equivalent Mercedes. Their wives all drove Volkswagens. But we walked into the village to shop, or took the bus or train into the city as needed. And it was my German girlfriends who insisted that we take all the children to MacDonalds for lunch, a place they could eat food they liked without being chastised by the staff for their childish manners. ;-)

It seems sensible that petrolium prices will remain at the higher end of the range for some years to come, as we get used to accomodating the growing economies of India and Red China. Hybrid cars are selling faster than they can be produced in America, and in each of the last two years more product lines have been offered with this option. As yet the absolute numbers are still small, but it will be intersting to see what proportion of the cars in America vs. the rest of the world get 30-50 miles per gallon... and how many of the houses rebuilt after this hurricane season are built to more efficiently use energy, but away from the flood zones.

This next year should proved very interesting indeed, and I look forward to looking back upon its events from the comfort of an easy chair, knowing that all I care about are safe and comfortable, too. Let me wish you and your lovely wife, family and friends all the best for the new year to come: L'Schana Tovah for the year 5766 of the Jewish calendar... and the same hopes for all those who work toward freedom and peace both at home and abroad.
Posted by: trailing wife || 10/02/2005 23:05 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Politix
Steyn: Media deserve blame for New Orleans debacle
Dan Rather was on ''Larry King Live'' the other night and was asked about the Katrina coverage. Now, say what you like about Dan, but he knows his meteorological phenomena. I've always thought there was something quintessentially American about Dan's hurricane editions of the CBS news -- not the part of the show where he's reporting on the actual hurricane, but the bit where he says "And today's other headlines,'' as if it's the most normal thing in the world to be reading "The Dow closed 19 points down today" while wrapped around a lamppost in your sou'wester with a rusting doublewide flying over your shoulder.

Yet Hurricane Dan professed himself delighted with his successors. "They took us there to the hurricane," he told Larry. "They put the facts in front of us and, very important, they sucked up their guts and talked truth to power."

Er, no. The facts they put in front of us were wrong, and they didn't talk truth to power. They talked to goofs in power, like New Orleans' Mayor Nagin and Police Chief Compass, and uncritically fell for every nutso yarn they were peddled. The media swallowed more bilge than if they'd been lying down with their mouths open as the levee collapsed. Ten thousand dead! Widespread rape and murder! A 7-year-old gang-raped and then throat-slashed! It was great stuff -- and none of it happened. No gang-raped 7-year-olds. None.

Most of the media are still in Dan mode, sucking up their guts and congratulating themselves about what a swell job they did during Katrina. CNN producers were advising their guests to "be angry," and there was so much to get angry about, not least the fact that no matter how angry you got on air Anderson Cooper was always much better at it. And Mayor Nagin as well. To show he was angry, he said "frickin'" all the frickin' time so that by the end of a typical Nagin soundbite you felt as if you'd been gang-fricked. "That frickin' Superdome," he raged. "Five days watching dead bodies, watching hooligans killing people, raping people."

But nobody got killed by a hooligan in the Superdome. The problem wasn't rape and murder, but the rather more prosaic lack of bathroom facilities. As Ben Stein put it, it was the media that rioted. They grabbed every lurid rumor and took it for a wild joyride across prime time. There was a real story in there -- big hurricane, people dead -- but it wasn't enough, and certainly not for damaging President Bush.

Think about that: Hurricane week was in large part a week of drivel, mostly the bizarre fantasies of New Orleans' incompetent police chief but amplified hugely by a gullible media. Given everything we now know they got wrong in Louisiana, where they speak the language, how likely is it that the great blundering herd are getting it any more accurate in Iraq?

Four years ago, you'll recall, we were bogged down in "the brutal Afghan winter." By "we," I don't mean the military but the media. The line on Afghanistan was that it was the white man's grave. Actually, it was the grave that was white; the man was more of a blueish color thanks to temperatures "so cold that eyelids crust and saliva turns to sludge in the mouth," according to Knight-Ridder's Tom Ifield. "Realistically," reported New York's Daily News, "U.S. forces have a window of two or three weeks before the brutal Afghan winter begins to foreclose options."

Er, no. "Realistically," U.S. forces turned out to have a window of four years, which is how long they've been waiting for the "fast, fast approaching" (ABC's ''Nightline'') brutal Afghan winter to show up. It's Knight-Ridder's news reports that turn to sludge on your lips. The "brutal Afghan winter" is a media fiction.

How many times does this have to happen before the press seriously examines why so many of them get the big stories wrong in exactly the same way? After decades of boasting about "hiring diversity," everybody in America's newsrooms is now so remarkably diverse they all make exactly the same mistakes. Oughtn't that to be just a teensy bit disquieting even to the most blinkered journalism professor?

How appropriate that it should be Dan Rather, always late to yesterday's conventional wisdom, to bless the media's fraudulent coverage of Katrina. Dan was back, along with his dismissed producer Mary Mapes, to defend his fake-memo story from last year. Another interviewer, his former CBS colleague Marvin Kalb, sympathized at the way Rather's terrific story had somehow gotten lost in a lot of tedious quibbling about the fact that the 1970s typewritten memos amazingly used the default font of Microsoft Word: "The focus was not on the substance of your story," complained Marvin to Dan. "The National Guard aspect of the whole thing sort of dropped to the side, and this media focus was on you."

The critics had, as Mary Mapes puts it in her new book, "nothing beyond a cursory and politically motivated examination of the typeface." To this day, as Dan likes to moan, the White House is still refusing to address the substance of the story.

There's a reason for that. If I say "King Zog of Albania today launched a blistering critique of the CBS News Division," and you point out that King Zog of Albania died in 1961, that's it -- it's over. Doesn't matter how blistering the critique is. And that goes for the hurricane, too. You can't indict Bush for failing to respond when you've spent the previous week demanding he respond to fake crises -- mass murder, mass child rape, five-figure body counts.

Oh, well. Even at CNN, hurricane fever can't last forever. According to the headline writers at the network's Web site on Thursday:

"Bush Narrows Supreme Court List: Judges, Lawyers Being Considered, Analysts Say."

Well, those "analysts" lent a devastating blow to those of us who thought the president would push the envelope, think outside the box and appoint a busboy or exotic dancer. But no. After two centuries of the same-old same-old, it's still "judges, lawyers being considered." But it's good to know the media are reverting to ponderous statements of the obvious after a wild and wacky couple of weeks' worth of statements of the obviously wrong.
Posted by: Craing Whavising2623 || 10/02/2005 18:23 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The effectiveness of command is dependent upon accurate information. It becomes even more important as the area of operation expands beyond anyone's single ability to see the entire picture. MSM by its abject poor performance actually distorted and hindered the relief operations. Drama and ratings do not form the basis of a critical information system for managers, leaders, or commanders. Expect a spinless Congress to fail in its responsibility in regulating commerce cause it ain't free speech. Its shouting FIRE in a crowded theater.
Posted by: Ebbineng Jineting9128 || 10/02/2005 22:18 Comments || Top||


Goodbye Cruel World
From Daily Kos - ht LGF
Dear friends,

I've had it. I'm done. I'm through. I quit.

I thought about merely slinking away and disappearing, but my vanity won't permit that. Plus, having mocked so many of these in my time, I thought I'd give others a chance to do the same to me. Turnabout is indeed fair play.

My explanation is...on the flipside...

Raybin's diary

See, this is all useless. Not just everything we do in the world--and rest assured it is for 100,000 years from now, none of us and nothing we do will be remembered--but specifically on this site.

It's become more and more apparent to me over the past five years that all the activism and non-violent protesting in the world will do precisely squat. When you're dealing with evil people who have no shame, the old rules of the game don't and, indeed, can't apply if you have any hope for success. Hundreds of thousands of people have marched, millions of letters have been written, tens of millions of votes cast, and hundreds of trillions of electrons expended pontificating on blogs...for nothing. Nothing has changed. Nothing will change. Not unless it comes in the form of something akin to the French Revolution.

We need terror. We need horror. We need the streets running awash in rivers of blood of these thugs and criminals and zealots. Activism didn't prevent 60,000 deaths in Vietnam. All the activism of the Civil Rights era has gotten African Americans precisely nowhere. Segregation may not be the law of the land anymore, but it's still the de facto state of America.

When y'all want to start throwing molotovs and sniping from windows come and talk to me. Until then, I will be content to retire, be a hermit, and laugh at everyone. Even then, I may still just feel like laughing as the world falls apart around me, but at least I'll be willing to listen.

My mental state is collapsing and deteriorating almost daily. It's so consistent you could practically graph it. My life is falling apart at an equally alarming rate, and yet I feel like doing nothing to salvage it. I feel like I'm standing at the bottom of one of the WTC towers, watching it come down on me, floor by floor, knowing I'll be blown to atoms, yet unable to move.

See what I'm talking about? I've gone from cynicism to hatred to sadness in a few paragraphs. I'm a broken shell of what I used to be. Like Humpty Dumpty, I also doubt very seriously if I can ever be put back together. I'm dissatisfied and miserable beyond measure and no amount of medication, therapy, or vacation seems able to change that. That's not the kind of person I want to be for you all.

So, it ends. Just over 4 years ago I started reading Tom Tomorrow's occasional postings to his old website...since then I've been an Eschatonian, then moved away to become a Kossack, and now I'm a front page poster on My Left Wing. I've been honored to know people of staggeringly brilliant intellect and humor. I've been humbled by knowing you. I'm the better for it.

(Let me insert here, for lack of a better place to put it, a personal note to Armando: Fuck 'em, man. If the people who hate you have skins thinner than wet tissue paper, that's not your fault. Keep being yourself...asshole. In fact, let me expand that message to everyone. Just relax, be mellow, and let all the shit just roll off you. Don't let the bastards grind you down. Fuck 'em, they ain't worth the trouble or the worry or even the consideration. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself in all things.)

I guess all I can say in summation is that I hope I've been able to offer you something in return. I hope I've taught you something, made you think or (and this is most important) laugh. I love making people laugh and I find I've been less and less inclined to do that lately. I've been laughing very little myself.

Ah, fuck it, man. Ignore all the negative emotions at the beginning of this.

I love you all.

(...yes, even you. Yeah, and you. Oh, but not you...yeah, that guy over there. You suck.)

Peace be upon you and yours always, wherever the road may take you.

Yours very sincerely and respectfully,
With much love,
I am,

Raybin

P.S. Visit as many Civil War battlefields as you can and maybe donate a little while you're there. They need all the help they can get and you'll be a better person for it. Really. Trust me. Would I lie?

P.P.S. Don't answer that.

P.P.P.S. Tried to make you laugh one last time, see?

P.P.P.P.S This space for rent

P.P.P.P.P.S. Okay, that was the last time.
Meltdown can be a beautiful thing.
Posted by: .com || 10/02/2005 05:56 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Do these people end up useless, fucked-up no-hacks and loons because they fall under the spell of leftist political beliefs that eventually them bugshit?

Or are they useless, fucked-up no-hacks and loons to begin with, and their stupidity and craziness makes them naturally gravitate toward leftism?

Either way, good riddance to Raybin.
Posted by: Dave D. || 10/02/2005 8:18 Comments || Top||

#2  Activism caused the cambodian and vietnamese genocides.
Posted by: JFM || 10/02/2005 10:32 Comments || Top||

#3  ima always warn peoples about long term effects of stupdity
Posted by: halfEmpty || 10/02/2005 11:08 Comments || Top||

#4  Never reading KOS myself, what is the background to this depressive, self-destructive, and hopefully suicidal before he becomes homicidal, freak?
Posted by: Anonymoose || 10/02/2005 11:20 Comments || Top||

#5  Forever banished to his parent's basement and building Big Macs for a livin'..

bwaahahahahahah
Posted by: macofromoc || 10/02/2005 13:35 Comments || Top||

#6  Man got to lay off the bong for awhile. That were some bad stuff he bin smokin.
Posted by: DoDo || 10/02/2005 15:09 Comments || Top||

#7  I'm out of Brillo for scrubbing my brain, so I don't dare read anything from those losers, even if posted here.

Can we hope this clown is promising threatening to do the right thing and quit stealing our oxygen? Soon?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 10/02/2005 15:22 Comments || Top||

#8  What a dweeb - "Pity me, for I have given you my all, and I am spent. I shall not come this way again (except when I post in the comments)"

"Fare thee well, fellow traveller. The evil right-wingers may have doused your flame, but we shall remember your valiant struggle."

Twit.
Posted by: Tony (UK) || 10/02/2005 17:37 Comments || Top||

#9  Loser.
Posted by: Sock Puppet O´ Doom || 10/02/2005 18:12 Comments || Top||

#10  hehe

he read too much rantburg

the right wing neo con fashit webshite was too much

he probably had brown eyes

mmmm I could fix that...
Posted by: dr Jo || 10/02/2005 20:12 Comments || Top||

#11  Get a load of his fellow whiners on the Daily Kos begging him to stay. Sheesh. No wonder they keep losing elections......
Posted by: Desert Blondie || 10/02/2005 22:13 Comments || Top||


Condoleezza Rice's Princeton speech, and Associated Press Deficit Disorder
Posted by: .com || 10/02/2005 05:52 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I've proposed the creation on an independent "dry" news wire: simple, powerful and relatively easy to create. In essence, a Rantburg-style blog for original content news only. Submitted and vetted by its members.

Unlike a typical blog, it should actively solicit uncopyrighted contributions from news-oriented websites and other blogs around the world, while minimizing opinion to protect the integrity of the straight news. It would be for "reporting" news, not "journalizing" it.

All stories submitted would be under license limited to: "by-line and URL (from original source) must be kept with story when republished."

Each article would be open to member vetting, with some easy way to indicate problems that could result in the article being disqualified or highlighted, attached to a typical comment submission section, such as:

1) Previously copyrighted material submitted as original. (URL of original must be given.)
2) This article has been substantially re-printed as original material in a commercial publication.
3) This article has been substantially re-printed without attribution or URL.
4) There is substantial factual disagreement with this article.
5) Article contains misleading or deceptive content, or expresses opinion as fact.
6) Article has been sanitized with euphamisms.
7) Linguistic, grammatical, historical or editorial problem.

Doing so would both help to prevent abuse of original material, and help maintain quality control. Except for #1 above, which would be an article "death penalty", the other critiques would be for the benefit of the submitter and anyone who wished to use the wire item.

Members could be credibility rated based on both quantity and quality of submissions. This rating would be associated with their stories.

Again, the idea of this independent wire is for the rest of the world to be able to have its news heard, uncensored by the AP, UPI or Reuters. To actively solicit news from thousands of websites by email or direct submission, and to effectively prevent the wire from being mis-used.

In turn, the wire provides uncopyrighted news with editorial vetting and quality rating to the public for "fair use".

Posted by: Anonymoose || 10/02/2005 10:56 Comments || Top||

#2  Moose, you might have something with the copyright idea. I believe there is widespread plagiarizing of blog material, including by the MSM.

I would add that the emphasize should be on first person reporting, i.e. reports by people who actually witnessed the event. firstperson.com?

As always the problem is getting initial traction. As an example of how to get started, you could have started with something like Katrina soliciting peoples stories on blogs covering the story.
Posted by: phil_b || 10/02/2005 16:51 Comments || Top||

#3  Phil_b: There are several good formats out there right now, such as the regular text-oriented wire service format that is just item after item.

I see the story link format as follows:

date stamp(automatic)-contributer # and rating(automatic)-headline-(seven boxes for the aforementioned critiques)-# views-#trackbacks

As example:

1111051015-3257-AAB-H Clinton renews pact with Satan at Harvard speech -[1][2][3][4][5][x][7]-247-12

Translated: Nov 11, 05, 1015am-contributer #3257-AAB rating-(headline)-(comment added that calling Satan a "responsible opposing viewpoint" is too P.C.)-247 views-12 trackbacks.

The difference from the typical wire service format that is just most recent on the top, this would be oriented most likely to geography with major subject areas. And while is could create an RSS feed, it wouldn't use other RSS feeds for material, so there would be minimal redundancy that you get from typical wire service reports.

The Rantburg organization, cleaned up a lot, would work very well. That is, a bare-bones version of RB, with a login/password. Perhaps with a look and feel combination with http://linkdump.be as far as the look goes. It would also be of great help if it had lots of open source input like http://del.icio.us/ , that gets so much material it updates every two minutes.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 10/02/2005 18:41 Comments || Top||

#4  I think it could work. Look how easy it is:

The NYT which is certainly not a world away from Princeton, couldn't be bothered sending a reporter, and printed the AP story. Worse yet, New Jersey's own Star Ledger did the same thing. CNN, Australian Broadcasting Corp., and the Miami Herald printed the story verbatim. Couldn't they have done at least like theBeeb's Pentagon Correspondent, who looked up the State Dept's link for his article?

Even a poorly written story can go a long way.
Posted by: 2b || 10/02/2005 20:34 Comments || Top||

#5  Lex had a similar idea to you. I don't what you and I suggest as an either/or proposition. Its just that my background in internet businesses makes me ask what is the compelling value proposition. I think amateur reports and firsthand observers would love to have a forum for publishing that guarantees it will always be attributed to them as well as get distribution.
Posted by: phil_b || 10/02/2005 22:59 Comments || Top||


Iraq
VDH : Saddam in 2005!
Uchronia! I love uchronia!
Just imagine a different Iraq

by Victor Davis Hanson

Saddam promises more bounties for suicide bombers in Rather interview

In a much publicized second interview with CBS’s Dan Rather, Iraqi’s President Saddam Hussein insisted that continual American pressure had little effect. “Look at Afghanistan. Here it is almost October 2005, and America is still fighting the Taliban, so I don’t think they will dare come to our Iraq. But we are ready to be martyred nonetheless.”

The Iraqi president who was hosting Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas also denied rumors that Iraqi agents had attempted to assassinate former President Bill Clinton. On recent disclosures of a plot against him, President Clinton left nearby Kuwait, where he had lectured his hosts on the dangers of WMD proliferation in Iraq.

Among the more tense moments of the Rather interview was Saddam’s insistence that Iran’s nuclear program demanded an “Arab response.” The Iraqi leader also promised to increase his bounties to suicide bombers on the West Bank to $40,000 per family, and planned to expand the program to include martyrs who joined the Taliban resistance. CBS’s Rather grimaced, “I guess that $70-a-barrel oil give you a pretty wide berth, Mr. President.”
Terrorists in Baghdad?
In response to Iraq’s insistence that U.N. inspectors would not be allowed back in, and rumors that several terrorists were residing in Baghdad, Secretary of State Rice issued a call for a continuance of the controversial no-fly zones and the U.N. embargo. “We cannot relent; the moment we do there will be a holocaust in Kurdistan. We are in a war against terror. It is bad enough that we know Abu Nidal and Abu Abbas reside in Baghdad, but Saddam is also openly harboring Abdul Rahman Yasin and Ahmed Hikmat Shakir who were connected to the plot in 1993 to blow up the World Trade Center and other anti-American terrorism. This is intolerable after 9/11. Now we find out that this al Qaeda leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi who fled our forces in Afghanistan is also with Saddam. And al Qaeda’s affiliated Ansar al-Islam is openly operating in Kurdistan with Saddam’s approval.”

No-fly zone weariness

Military officials reacted to Sec. Rice’s warnings with some skepticism. An unnamed Air Force general added, “Holy Cow, we are up to a half-million of these sorties, going on 15 years now. At some point, we have to ask whether or not it is worth trying to take away 2/3s of the guy’s air space. When does it all end?”

Retired Gen. Anthony Zinni who oversaw Operation Desert Fox seven years ago on Saddam’s weapons’ installations, warned, “We have no idea what he had, what we hit, what is left. As I said earlier, after the 1998 raid we took out 100 targets, killed maybe 2,000 Iraqis, and struck 85 percent of the WMD operations, but who knows what’s there now?

RTWT at the link. Hanson's on a roll here.
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 10/02/2005 07:36 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:



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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.

Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.

Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has dominated Mexico for six years.
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Meet the Mods
In no particular order...
Steve White
Seafarious
tu3031
badanov
sherry
ryuge
GolfBravoUSMC
Bright Pebbles
trailing wife
Gloria
Fred
Besoeker
Glenmore
Frank G
3dc
Skidmark

Two weeks of WOT
Sun 2005-10-02
  At least 22 dead in Bali blasts
Sat 2005-10-01
  Leb: 'Army deploys troops along Syrian border'
Fri 2005-09-30
  Fatah wins local Paleo elections
Thu 2005-09-29
  Hamas big turbans run for cover
Wed 2005-09-28
  Syria pushing Paleo battalions into Lebanon
Tue 2005-09-27
  Paleo Rocket Fire 'Cause For War'
Mon 2005-09-26
  Aqsa Brigades declare mobilization
Sun 2005-09-25
  Palestinian factions shower Israeli targets with missiles
Sat 2005-09-24
  EU moves to refer Iran to U.N.
Fri 2005-09-23
  Somaliland says Qaeda big arrested in shootout
Thu 2005-09-22
  Banglacops on trail of 7 top JMB leaders
Wed 2005-09-21
  Iran threatens to quit NPT
Tue 2005-09-20
  NKor wants nuke reactor for deal
Mon 2005-09-19
  Afghanistan Holds First Parliamentary Vote in 30 Years
Sun 2005-09-18
  One Dies, 28 Hurt in New Lebanon Bombing


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