The Somali government on Tuesday appealed for international help to investigate a failed bid to assassinate President Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed, blamed on the al-Qaeda network, which killed 11 people.
Authorities interrogated two suspects arrested after the country's first-ever suicide bombing...
As authorities interrogated two suspects arrested after the country's first-ever suicide bombing, government spokesperson Abdirahman Mohamed Nur Dinari said they needed foreign expertise to investigate the attack outside the Parliament building in Baidoa.
I could lend them a mirror, no need for all those foreign experts.
"Our local investigators are already probing the attack, but we really need international help and expertise on the whole exercise," Dinari said. "Since al-Qaeda was involved in the attack, we really do not have the expertise to uncover the whole attack that was well organised by the same groups that are carrying out attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan," the spokesperson for the country's interim government added. Suicide bombers blew up two cars on Monday as Yusuf's convoy was leaving Parliament, killing five members of his entourage, including his younger brother Abdulsalam, and six presumed attackers.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 00:00 ||
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Muslim Heckler Targets John Reid
Protesters have interrupted a speech by the Home Secretary to a Muslim audience in London. A heckler from a banned group was bundled from the room after shouting abuse at John Reid. Free Speech for Me but Not for Thee; Lefties, Socialists, Commies & Muslims have the attribute down pat. As noted here at the 'Burg since way back before dirt waz invented.
Posted by: Uncle Sam ||
09/20/2006 11:18 ||
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#1
A neo-fascist shouting down a neo-communist somethings never change.
THE former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey of Clifton has issued his own challenge to violent Islam in a lecture in which he defends the Popes extraordinarily effective and lucid speech.
Lord Carey said that Muslims must address with great urgency their religions association with violence. He made it clear that he believed the clash of civilisations endangering the world was not between Islamist extremists and the West, but with Islam as a whole.
We are living in dangerous and potentially cataclysmic times, he said. There will be no significant material and economic progress [in Muslim communities] until the Muslim mind is allowed to challenge the status quo of Muslim conventions and even their most cherished shibboleths.
Lord Carey, who as Archbishop of Canterbury became a pioneer in Christian-Muslim dialogue, himself quoted a contemporary political scientist, Samuel Huntington, who has said the world is witnessing a clash of civilisations.
Arguing that Huntingtons thesis has some validity, Lord Carey quoted him as saying: Islams borders are bloody and so are its innards. The fundamental problem for the West is not Islamic fundamentalism. It is Islam, a different civilisation whose people are convinced of the superiority of their culture and are obsessed with the inferiority of their power. Lord Carey went on to argue that a deep-seated Westophobia has developed in recent years in the Muslim world.
Lord Carey, who has continued to work in interfaith collaboration since his retirement in 2002, said that the relationship between Islamic countries and the West was the most dangerous, most important and potentially cataclysmic issue of our day. He described the two civilisations as polarised and uncomprehending and said that the Danish cartoons controversy last March showed two world views colliding in public space with no common point of reference.
He said the West had been largely responsible for redrawing the map of the Middle East and it was the moral relativism of the West that has outraged Muslim society. Most Muslims believe firmly that the invasion of Iraq is 2004 was solely about oil, he said.
He went on to defend the Popes fundamental thesis, that reason and religious faith can be compatible. The actual essay is an extraordinarily effective and lucid thesis exploring the weakness of secularism and the way that faith and reason go hand in hand, he said.
He said he agreed with his Muslim friends who claimed that true Islam is not a violent religion, but he wanted to know why Islam today had become associated with violence. The Muslim world must address this matter with great urgency, he said. Can someone explain how they let this guy go and got the Druid?
#1
Great ! Great ! We need more theologians coming forth to reinforce the Pope. Keep applying pressure to the mad dogs. Very soon, they will have no response, because there is no defense.
#7
Lord Carey said that Muslims must address with great urgency their religions association with violence. He made it clear that he believed the clash of civilisations endangering the world was not between Islamist extremists and the West, but with Islam as a whole.
It is Islam, a different civilisation whose people are convinced of the superiority of their culture and are obsessed with the inferiority of their power.
He described the two civilisations as polarised and uncomprehending and said that the Danish cartoons controversy last March showed two world views colliding in public space with no common point of reference.
#8
Or that the Koran is literally God's word and not subject to questioning or rational analysis.
What sort of "god" would choose an unholy hole-ly man to transmit his message? If he came yesterday, no doubt, a read-only dvd would have been used, not a book. What's so great about any man written book? Only impressive sounding in a an age and scenario where 95% are illiterate and easily awed.
Lord Carey dished it out nicely, bravo! Go dig a hole and hide, Rowan.
#10
Can someone explain how they let this guy go and got the Druid?
He was just as bad as the current ArchDruid - and worse in many ways - when he was ArchDruid, IMO. Now that he's cut loose he can talk a bit more freely. Heard anything about this from the current one? ... crickets ...
As a Venezuelan, I apologize for this horse's ass behaviour. We are not all like that.
By IAN JAMES, Associated Press Writer
10 minutes ago
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez took his verbal battle with the United States to the floor of the U.N. General Assembly on Wednesday, calling President Bush "the devil."
"The devil came here yesterday," Chavez said, referring to Bush's address Tuesday. "He came here talking as if he were the owner of the world."
The leftist leader, who has joined Iran in opposing U.S. influence, accused Washington of "domination, exploitation and pillage of peoples of the world."
"We appeal to the people of the United States and the world to halt this threat, which is like a sword hanging over our head," he said.
He also said the U.N. "doesn't work" in its current system and is "antidemocratic." He called for reform, saying the U.S. government's "immoral veto" had allowed recent Israeli bombings of Lebanon to continue unabated for more than a month.
"Venezuela once again proposes today that we reform the United Nations," he said. He drew tentative giggles at times from the audience, but also some applause when called U.S. "imperialism" a menace.
Chavez lambasted Washington for trying to block Venezuela's campaign for a rotating seat on the U.N. Security Council. He said if chosen over U.S.-favorite Guatemala in a secret-ballot U.N. vote next month, Venezuela would be "the voice of the Third World."
The U.S. government warns that Chavez, a close ally of Iran, Syria and Cuba, would be a disruptive force on the council.
#3
What a freakin maroon this guy is. I just don't have the words to effectively snark him. As I've said before, he is a caricature, a cartoon. I wonder if he knows that when he opens his pie hole like this all he is doing is increasing Bush's support in America.
#6
TMH: apology noted, but unnecessary. We do not attribute the sins of tyrants to those unfortunate enough to be their subjects.
Posted by: Mike ||
09/20/2006 13:10 Comments ||
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#7
"The devil came here yesterday," Chavez said, referring to Bush'sAhmadinejad address Tuesday. "He came here talking as if he were the owner of the world."
There, I fixed Ian's mistake.
Posted by: Gir ||
09/20/2006 13:32 Comments ||
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#8
Heheh. Loved this headline:
Hugo Chavez calls George Bush "the devil"; doesn't want any child of his to play "foosball"
#11
The sustained and thunderous applause to this wacko's ravings only undersores the fact that the UN is totally hostile to the US, and irrelevant to our goals in the world.
#15
Here is the transcript of a true madman's rantings:
Address to the United Nations
Rise Up Against the Empire
By HUGO CHAVEZ
Representatives of the governments of the world, good morning to all of you. First of all, I would like to invite you, very respectfully, to those who have not read this book, to read it.
Noam Chomsky, one of the most prestigious American and world intellectuals, Noam Chomsky, and this is one of his most recent books, 'Hegemony or Survival: The Imperialist Strategy of the United States.'" [Holds up book, waves it in front of General Assembly.] "It's an excellent book to help us understand what has been happening in the world throughout the 20th century, and what's happening now, and the greatest threat looming over our planet.
The hegemonic pretensions of the American empire are placing at risk the very survival of the human species. We continue to warn you about this danger and we appeal to the people of the United States and the world to halt this threat, which is like a sword hanging over our heads. I had considered reading from this book, but, for the sake of time," [flips through the pages, which are numerous] "I will just leave it as a recommendation.
It reads easily, it is a very good book, I'm sure Madame [President] you are familiar with it. It appears in English, in Russian, in Arabic, in German. I think that the first people who should read this book are our brothers and sisters in the United States, because their threat is right in their own house.
The devil is right at home. The devil, the devil himself, is right in the house.
"And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday the devil came here. Right here." [crosses himself] "And it smells of sulfur still today.
Yesterday, ladies and gentlemen, from this rostrum, the president of the United States, the gentleman to whom I refer as the devil, came here, talking as if he owned the world. Truly. As the owner of the world.
I think we could call a psychiatrist to analyze yesterday's statement made by the president of the United States. As the spokesman of imperialism, he came to share his nostrums, to try to preserve the current pattern of domination, exploitation and pillage of the peoples of the world.
An Alfred Hitchcock movie could use it as a scenario. I would even propose a title: "The Devil's Recipe."
As Chomsky says here, clearly and in depth, the American empire is doing all it can to consolidate its system of domination. And we cannot allow them to do that. We cannot allow world dictatorship to be consolidated.
The world parent's statement -- cynical, hypocritical, full of this imperial hypocrisy from the need they have to control everything.
They say they want to impose a democratic model. But that's their democratic model. It's the false democracy of elites, and, I would say, a very original democracy that's imposed by weapons and bombs and firing weapons.
What a strange democracy. Aristotle might not recognize it or others who are at the root of democracy.
What type of democracy do you impose with marines and bombs?
The president of the United States, yesterday, said to us, right here, in this room, and I'm quoting, "Anywhere you look, you hear extremists telling you can escape from poverty and recover your dignity through violence, terror and martyrdom."
Wherever he looks, he sees extremists. And you, my brother -- he looks at your color, and he says, oh, there's an extremist. Evo Morales, the worthy president of Bolivia, looks like an extremist to him.
The imperialists see extremists everywhere. It's not that we are extremists. It's that the world is waking up. It's waking up all over. And people are standing up.
I have the feeling, dear world dictator, that you are going to live the rest of your days as a nightmare because the rest of us are standing up, all those who are rising up against American imperialism, who are shouting for equality, for respect, for the sovereignty of nations.
Yes, you can call us extremists, but we are rising up against the empire, against the model of domination.
The president then -- and this he said himself, he said: "I have come to speak directly to the populations in the Middle East, to tell them that my country wants peace."
That's true. If we walk in the streets of the Bronx, if we walk around New York, Washington, San Diego, in any city, San Antonio, San Francisco, and we ask individuals, the citizens of the United States, what does this country want? Does it want peace? They'll say yes.
But the government doesn't want peace. The government of the United States doesn't want peace. It wants to exploit its system of exploitation, of pillage, of hegemony through war.
It wants peace. But what's happening in Iraq? What happened in Lebanon? In Palestine? What's happening? What's happened over the last 100 years in Latin America and in the world? And now threatening Venezuela -- new threats against Venezuela, against Iran?
He spoke to the people of Lebanon. Many of you, he said, have seen how your homes and communities were caught in the crossfire. How cynical can you get? What a capacity to lie shamefacedly. The bombs in Beirut with millimetric precision?
This is crossfire? He's thinking of a western, when people would shoot from the hip and somebody would be caught in the crossfire.
This is imperialist, fascist, assassin, genocidal, the empire and Israel firing on the people of Palestine and Lebanon. That is what happened. And now we hear, "We're suffering because we see homes destroyed.'
The president of the United States came to talk to the peoples -- to the peoples of the world. He came to say -- I brought some documents with me, because this morning I was reading some statements, and I see that he talked to the people of Afghanistan, the people of Lebanon, the people of Iran. And he addressed all these peoples directly.
And you can wonder, just as the president of the United States addresses those peoples of the world, what would those peoples of the world tell him if they were given the floor? What would they have to say?
And I think I have some inkling of what the peoples of the south, the oppressed people think. They would say, "Yankee imperialist, go home." I think that is what those people would say if they were given the microphone and if they could speak with one voice to the American imperialists.
And that is why, Madam President, my colleagues, my friends, last year we came here to this same hall as we have been doing for the past eight years, and we said something that has now been confirmed -- fully, fully confirmed.
I don't think anybody in this room could defend the system. Let's accept -- let's be honest. The U.N. system, born after the Second World War, collapsed. It's worthless.
Oh, yes, it's good to bring us together once a year, see each other, make statements and prepare all kinds of long documents, and listen to good speeches, like Abel's yesterday, or President Mullah's . Yes, it's good for that.
And there are a lot of speeches, and we've heard lots from the president of Sri Lanka, for instance, and the president of Chile.
But we, the assembly, have been turned into a merely deliberative organ. We have no power, no power to make any impact on the terrible situation in the world. And that is why Venezuela once again proposes, here, today, 20 September, that we re-establish the United Nations.
Last year, Madam, we made four modest proposals that we felt to be crucially important. We have to assume the responsibility our heads of state, our ambassadors, our representatives, and we have to discuss it.
The first is expansion, and Mullah talked about this yesterday right here. The Security Council, both as it has permanent and non-permanent categories, (inaudible) developing countries and LDCs must be given access as new permanent members. That's step one.
Second, effective methods to address and resolve world conflicts, transparent decisions.
Point three, the immediate suppression -- and that is something everyone's calling for -- of the anti-democratic mechanism known as the veto, the veto on decisions of the Security Council.
Let me give you a recent example. The immoral veto of the United States allowed the Israelis, with impunity, to destroy Lebanon. Right in front of all of us as we stood there watching, a resolution in the council was prevented.
Fourthly, we have to strengthen, as we've always said, the role and the powers of the secretary general of the United Nations.
Yesterday, the secretary general practically gave us his speech of farewell. And he recognized that over the last 10 years, things have just gotten more complicated; hunger, poverty, violence, human rights violations have just worsened. That is the tremendous consequence of the collapse of the United Nations system and American hegemonistic pretensions.
Madam, Venezuela a few years ago decided to wage this battle within the United Nations by recognizing the United Nations, as members of it that we are, and lending it our voice, our thinking.
Our voice is an independent voice to represent the dignity and the search for peace and the reformulation of the international system; to denounce persecution and aggression of hegemonistic forces on the planet.
This is how Venezuela has presented itself. Bolivar's home has sought a nonpermanent seat on the Security Council.
Let's see. Well, there's been an open attack by the U.S. government, an immoral attack, to try and prevent Venezuela from being freely elected to a post in the Security Council.
The imperium is afraid of truth, is afraid of independent voices. It calls us extremists, but they are the extremists.
And I would like to thank all the countries that have kindly announced their support for Venezuela, even though the ballot is a secret one and there's no need to announce things.
But since the imperium has attacked, openly, they strengthened the convictions of many countries. And their support strengthens us.
Mercosur, as a bloc, has expressed its support, our brothers in Mercosur. Venezuela, with Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, is a full member of Mercosur.
And many other Latin American countries, CARICOM, Bolivia have expressed their support for Venezuela. The Arab League, the full Arab League has voiced its support. And I am immensely grateful to the Arab world, to our Arab brothers, our Caribbean brothers, the African Union. Almost all of Africa has expressed its support for Venezuela and countries such as Russia or China and many others.
I thank you all warmly on behalf of Venezuela, on behalf of our people, and on behalf of the truth, because Venezuela, with a seat on the Security Council, will be expressing not only Venezuela's thoughts, but it will also be the voice of all the peoples of the world, and we will defend dignity and truth.
Over and above all of this, Madam President, I think there are reasons to be optimistic. A poet would have said "helplessly optimistic," because over and above the wars and the bombs and the aggressive and the preventive war and the destruction of entire peoples, one can see that a new era is dawning.
As Sylvia Rodriguez says, the era is giving birth to a heart. There are alternative ways of thinking. There are young people who think differently. And this has already been seen within the space of a mere decade. It was shown that the end of history was a totally false assumption, and the same was shown about Pax Americana and the establishment of the capitalist neo-liberal world. It has been shown, this system, to generate mere poverty. Who believes in it now?
What we now have to do is define the future of the world. Dawn is breaking out all over. You can see it in Africa and Europe and Latin America and Oceanea. I want to emphasize that optimistic vision.
We have to strengthen ourselves, our will to do battle, our awareness. We have to build a new and better world.
Venezuela joins that struggle, and that's why we are threatened. The U.S. has already planned, financed and set in motion a coup in Venezuela, and it continues to support coup attempts in Venezuela and elsewhere.
President Michelle Bachelet reminded us just a moment ago of the horrendous assassination of the former foreign minister, Orlando Letelier.
And I would just add one thing: Those who perpetrated this crime are free. And that other event where an American citizen also died were American themselves. They were CIA killers, terrorists.
And we must recall in this room that in just a few days there will be another anniversary. Thirty years will have passed from this other horrendous terrorist attack on the Cuban plane, where 73 innocents died, a Cubana de Aviacion airliner.
And where is the biggest terrorist of this continent who took the responsibility for blowing up the plane? He spent a few years in jail in Venezuela. Thanks to CIA and then government officials, he was allowed to escape, and he lives here in this country, protected by the government.
And he was convicted. He has confessed to his crime. But the U.S. government has double standards. It protects terrorism when it wants to.
And this is to say that Venezuela is fully committed to combating terrorism and violence. And we are one of the people who are fighting for peace.
Luis Posada Carriles is the name of that terrorist who is protected here. And other tremendously corrupt people who escaped from Venezuela are also living here under protection: a group that bombed various embassies, that assassinated people during the coup. They kidnapped me and they were going to kill me, but I think God reached down and our people came out into the streets and the army was too, and so I'm here today.
But these people who led that coup are here today in this country protected by the American government. And I accuse the American government of protecting terrorists and of having a completely cynical discourse.
We mentioned Cuba. Yes, we were just there a few days ago. We just came from there happily.
And there you see another era born. The Summit of the 15, the Summit of the Nonaligned, adopted a historic resolution. This is the outcome document. Don't worry, I'm not going to read it.
But you have a whole set of resolutions here that were adopted after open debate in a transparent matter -- more than 50 heads of state. Havana was the capital of the south for a few weeks, and we have now launched, once again, the group of the nonaligned with new momentum.
And if there is anything I could ask all of you here, my companions, my brothers and sisters, it is to please lend your good will to lend momentum to the Nonaligned Movement for the birth of the new era, to prevent hegemony and prevent further advances of imperialism.
And as you know, Fidel Castro is the president of the nonaligned for the next three years, and we can trust him to lead the charge very efficiently.
Unfortunately they thought, "Oh, Fidel was going to die." But they're going to be disappointed because he didn't. And he's not only alive, he's back in his green fatigues, and he's now presiding the nonaligned.
So, my dear colleagues, Madam President, a new, strong movement has been born, a movement of the south. We are men and women of the south.
With this document, with these ideas, with these criticisms, I'm now closing my file. I'm taking the book with me. And, don't forget, I'm recommending it very warmly and very humbly to all of you.
We want ideas to save our planet, to save the planet from the imperialist threat. And hopefully in this very century, in not too long a time, we will see this, we will see this new era, and for our children and our grandchildren a world of peace based on the fundamental principles of the United Nations, but a renewed United Nations.
And maybe we have to change location. Maybe we have to put the United Nations somewhere else; maybe a city of the south. We've proposed Venezuela.
You know that my personal doctor had to stay in the plane. The chief of security had to be left in a locked plane. Neither of these gentlemen was allowed to arrive and attend the U.N. meeting. This is another abuse and another abuse of power on the part of the Devil. It smells of sulfur here, but God is with us and I embrace you all.
#20
"Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."
Isa.5:20
#21
Impressive. Positively Castroesque in length. Contrast with the puny efforts of Americans.
The Gettysburg Address
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
Posted by: ed ||
09/20/2006 14:48 Comments ||
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#22
"...there are a lot of speeches, and we've heard lots from the president of Sri Lanka, for instance, and the president of Chile."
Citings worth remarking. Why, I wonder, would he mention them?
The sulfur reference is creepy. What else smells like sulfur?
I wonder whether Arabs realize how they are being manipulated with Chavez's speech?
Has rantburg posted the resolution from the Summit of the Nonaligned 15 anywhere?
#27
The sustained and thunderous applause to this wacko's ravings
I was listening to the speech and the applause wasn't "thunderous"... more along the lines of the applause for a decent community theater production of "My Fair Lady" where no one fell off the stage.
On the other hand, I sure would like a camera pan across the UN participants that I could spend a few minutes Tivo-ing, just to make sure I got the faces straight...
Maybe the clapping "UN UTubes" ,run a cross check of outstanding parking tickets, and do a bit profiling" the NYPD traffic enforcement folks.
Someone got up there and spoke the TRUTH. He spoke about your crimes, and spoke up FOR the underclass of oppressed and savaged people. He spoke for the suffering, and he cut through your lies like a hot knife.
Hot DAMN, Chavez!
Posted by: Mike ||
09/20/2006 16:26 Comments ||
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#29
"We appeal to the people of the United States and the world to halt this threat, which is like a sword hanging over our head," he said.
Chill out, Hugo - you're not worth the powder. Now, your pal Amadasahatter is another story.
#30
...Ed,
please allow me to offer another of Lincoln's phrases:
"...The world knows we do know how to save it. We -- even we here -- hold the power, and bear the responsibility. In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free -- honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth. Other means may succeed; this could not fail. The way is plain, peaceful, generous, just -- a way which, if followed, the world will forever applaud, and God must forever bless."
I have had those words in my pocket standing on the DMZ in Korea and aboard a USAF tanker refueling a combat mission just south of the Iraqi border. They are words for all mankind, now more than ever.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
09/20/2006 17:38 Comments ||
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#31
Why are these douchebags allowed to enter this country?
To hasten the development of public opinion and further hasten his demise, I think and hope.
accused Washington of "domination, exploitation and pillage of peoples of the world."
I don't know what the living conditions for Venezuelans are, but I'll bet they deteriorate to look more like those in Cuba under Chavez.
which is like a sword hanging over our head," he said.
Yeah, the US does that to everybody. Not. Feeling guilty? Feeling the need to whip up a conspiracy against you to distract people so you can maintain your grip on power? Let's see, where else in this world is that tune being played . . . .
Is it just me, or has anyone else noted as I have that the longer the speech, the more flowery the prose, the sparser the content, the more likely it is that the speech is coming from a dictator?
#32
While we're quoting Abraham Lincoln, please permit me to share, once again, this excerpt from his stirring Address Before the Young Men's Lyceum of Springfield, Illinois on January 27, 1838.
... This task of gratitude to our fathers, justice to ourselves, duty to posterity, and love for our species in general, all imperatively require us faithfully to perform.
How then shall we perform it? At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.
At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.
#33
WHAT A MAROON! Just tells you that the LLL Mo0nb@+5 are getting their message out and that the looney leaders of the world are listening. I mean who around the U.S. actually reads/spouts Chomsky except the idiotic left.
P.S. Mike, chill out dude, nobody is invading anybody att or you will wind up with a heart attack.
#35
What the bloody hell are we supposed to do? If these idiots had their way the USA would withdraw from everywhere in the world, withdraw our troops, withhold our money, cut off our support...
Ya' know...that doesn;t sound half bad...
Most of these people just don't seem to understand that the USA can get along just fine without them. We don't need their oil, their textiles, their foodstuffs, nor anything else they produce especially their illegal immigrants.
They can't possibly get along (in any manner IMO) without us.
Within a month of total US withdrawal and self-isolation the world would be in the grips of the biggest war this planet has ever seen and the worst economic nightmare and chaos in history.
The USA would end up holding civilization together as the long dark night overtakes the rest of the planet.
Let's hope we'd include our stalwart allies and let the rest of the world go straight down the tubes.
#40
The world already tried Moud's proposed model of geopol fairness and justice - it was called the LEAGUE OF NATIONS, to which Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo STILL manipulated, criticized and ignored, unto WW2.
#41
The "Devil" is Nostradamus' "hideous beast", among other sur-labels and descriptions, to which the world will running to get away from ala the T-REX/VELOCIRAPTORS vs. main characters in JURASSIC PARK. Rest assured, Lefties, the T-REX = DEVIL will munch and crunch on all mankind equally. KRAUTHAMMER > SAY IT WID ME, LEFTIES, YOU WILL BE EATEN LIKE THE REST OF US. GMD'S LASERS-MISSLES WON'T HAVE ANY EFFECT ON HIM.
President Bush's stalled anti-terrorism agenda edged forward Tuesday, with a rebellious House member rewriting her bill on wiretaps more to his liking and maverick Senate Republicans reopening talks over how to handle detainees.
Rep. Heather Wilson, R-N.M., offered to substitute her original bill on giving legal status to Bush's domestic surveillance program with a bill that would grant a key administration request: allow wiretapping on Americans in the event of an "imminent" terrorist attack. In exchange, the administration would be required to share with Congress more details of the nature of the threat, presumably with the House and Senate Intelligence committees and some congressional leaders. "Excesses are best prevented when intelligence activities are operated within a framework that controls government power by using checks and balances among the three branches of government," Wilson said in a statement.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
allow wiretapping on Americans in the event of an "imminent" terrorist attack.
These people just don't get it. The point of broad based monitoring is to identify people who may be involved in terrorism. Once you have identified them, traditional investigative techniques can be used. I's failure to identify them in the first place that leads to 9/11, the Madrid train bombing, the London subway bombings, etc.
#4
There are more.25,000 Lebanese. Thousands of Paks recently arriving in NYC. We have to demand a halt in admission of Muzzies into US under any circumstances. Then, we need a dialogue on the deportation of the ones here who will not leave voluntarily.
About 70 agents from as far away as California surrounded the site on Buckley Air Force Base at 5:30 a.m., according to a contractor.
What the hell are they doing on a base like that? Especially Buckley (anyone that's been there see those domes). can't say what goes on here, but you bet your ass its somethign Illegals should not be close to at all!
#3
I suspect that enforcement will be (selectively) tightened a good deal. I still remember Chavez' interior minister (I think) saying last year that they had "misplaced" over 12,000 (or was it 20,000?) blank passports. I have little doubt a good number of them are in Islmacist hands.
I kind of suspect that some people in Washington remember too.
#5
Buckley ANG Base is pretty open, except for the west end where the 2nd Space Wing is located. There's also a lot of construction supposedly going on up there, bringing the area up to code. Lot of menial jobs need to be done, the kind illegals are the "employee of choice" for. Glad to see the government is 'watching out' for our military... (snicker in disgust)
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
09/20/2006 21:25 Comments ||
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#6
Let's review the corruption here. It's not about 'jobs Americans won't do'. By law and implementation, DoD contracts have to pay 'union rates' from the nearest major metro area. So someone is pocketing the difference. Chances of a Federal DA doing the job of follow up? zip.
Thanks a lot, 'moose. Now I won't be able to sleep for days. :-(
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/20/2006 19:27 Comments ||
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#3
I find his prescription for women-only leadership fascinating, and wish he would go posthaste to the Muslim world to encourage them to enact it immediately. Let's start with Saudi Arabia and Iran.....
(BTW, relax, Barbara! He probably only needs a bran muffin or two, and he'll be just fine. ;) )
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/20/2006 21:51 Comments ||
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#5
#3 SB - I wasn't worried about Teddy-boy.
I was worried about how I'm going to close my eyes with that image in my mind. It's worse than a horror movie - horror movies aren't real.
Yikes!
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/20/2006 22:19 Comments ||
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#6
Barbara, growing up I saw that look a lot of times from the neighborhood old phart, usually accompanied with a "Damn kids! Get offa my lawn!" outburst, even if we weren't anywhere near his precious patch o' crabgrass.
President George W. Bush on Tuesday appealed directly to Muslims to assure them that the United States is not waging war with Islam as he laid out a vision for peace in the Middle East before skeptical world leaders at the United Nations.
"My country desires peace," Bush told world leaders in the main hall at the UN. "Extremists in your midst spread propaganda claiming that the West is engaged in a war against Islam. This propaganda is false and its purpose is to confuse you and justify acts of terror. We respect Islam." Addressing Iraqis specifically, Bush said, "We will not abandon you in your struggle to build a free nation."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[6 views]
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#1
That headline is missing a word...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/20/2006 0:37 Comments ||
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#5
Unfortunately, GWB's speech won't change a single Muslim opinion. Freedom of electoral choice, in the context of the Islamofascist majority in the Middle East, will only advance aggression. Not all noble ideas are executable.
#9
The President isn't speaking to Muslims, I don't think. He is speaking to the non-Muslim world, assuring them that they aren't about to be dragged into open war against their internal Muslim population, and therefore it is safe for them to join our side. (Yes, I know they are supposed to already be with us fighting against Islamic terrorists, but they keep forgetting.)
#10
TW is right. I know it doesn't look like it, but compared to the total number of Moslems in the world, it's actually a very small number/percentage causing all the ruckus. If we're "at war with Islam" the rest of the people who are sitting this out will be compelled to join the "jihad." GWB is just leaving the light on.
#12
If we're "at war with Islam" the rest of the people who are sitting this out will be compelled to join the "jihad."
The Muslims "sitting this out" are not sitting it out. They are the silent majority of muslims who do not condemn what the "minority" are doing. They are, in effect, taking a side. They would be perfectly happy to see the minority win and are doing nothing to stop it.
Bush wishes this not to be a clash of civilizations not because he fears the rest of the muzzies joining the action but because of what will happen when the rest of the west does. It will make the march of death in the 20th century look like a stroll in the park. But that is what has been coming for centuries.
The Pope and the former Archbishop of Canterbury have taken the protective cover of PC sensibility off the debate. The gloves are going to come off. Ahmedinajihad made sure it would happen with his sermon yesterday. We will start to read discussions like those we have been having here in the MSM soon. Perhaps not as entertaining, but as apocalyptic.
Then the people sitting on the fence will have to decide which side of that fence they want to fall on. And fall they will.
tw, your observation is one of the only acceptable explanations as to why Bush has not yet widened the scope of this war. After five long years of Thundering Silence from the Mythical Moderate Muslim this conflict is rapidly becoming A War With Islam. Not Islamists, not Islamofascism, Islam, plain and simple.
This is not something we have chosen. Our choice was made for us by the unwilling silent majority of Islam that absolutely refuses to join with us in salvaging this trainwreck of a religion. If we are expected to target only the radicals, then those who disagree with them must dinstinguish themselves from such fanatics. Their deafening silence can only be construed as consent. As Tony UK asked; Where are the Muslim demonstrations condemning all these death threats against the Pope? If ever there was a green light to go out and begin sanctioning Islam's leaders, this is it.
As I have mentioned before, in no way are we obliged to delicately winnow out Islam's psychotic killers. That we are even doing this job at all is a stunning bit of shirking by Muslims. Islam must clean its own house or finally come to expect that we may just end up throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Does the ordinary Jordanian who goes about his business and does nothing to protest Hamas, and nothing to protest Israel, give his assent to Hamas? Or to Israel? Does the afghan farmer give his implied assent to the Taliban, or to Kharzai?
Silence implies assent is a legal doctrine of limited utility. Its certainly not very useful in politics. In fact it violates the principles of democracy and classical liberalism - one is held responsible for what one does, not for what one does not do.
Some of the silent ones are against us, but afraid to take up arms. Some are FOR us, but afraid to even speak up for us. Some are genuinely neutral, and some are simply too premodern to have a sense that they are in any way part of this struggle. We have an interest in keeping those who are neutral, neutral. Or We have an interest in those that dislike us, but are unwilling to take up arms against us, continuing to remain passive. We have an interest in those who silently support us, moving more openly to our side.
And yes, our interests in some cases need to be narrowly defined. There are millions in Afghanistan who hate the Taliban, but arent real interested in say, legalizing conversion from Islam, or equal inheritance rights for women. We dont have the resources to conduct a crusade to reform every aspect of culture in every muslim country, nor do we need to. Bush has it right. Lets stay focused, balance our strategies with our resources.
#16
"As I have mentioned before, in no way are we obliged to delicately winnow out Islam's psychotic killers. That we are even doing this job at all is a stunning bit of shirking by Muslims. Islam must clean its own house or finally come to expect that "
Yes, the pope of Islam should sent the global Islamic police to fight the Taliban in Afghanistan. Or, in the absence of a pope of Islam, the head of Al Ahzar university in Cairo should do so. What, you say, the head of AAU doesnt have battalions, and isnt really on our side anyway? And the Egyptian govt is not interested in sending any troops to Afghan, which Mubarak considers a foreign country, despite the Ummah rhetoric thats not uncommon in Egypt? So, the only muslims cleaning the Taliban out from Helmand, are, you know Afghans? Responsible to the Afghan govt, which, for all its manifold weaknesses and problems, at least exists as an actual organizational entity, unlike "Islam". Unfortunately the Afghan govt doesnt have the resources to win on its own. Now if the Pakistani govt was really on our side, that might work, without our help, or the mythical battalions from Cairo. Unfortunately about 25% of the population of Pakistan is really, truely against us, and probably 40% more dont care one way or the other, but dont want our troops on their soil - at least not openly on their soil. And we dont have the troops to occupy Pakistan. We could nuke it, but that would probably make the world just a tad less stable over the next few decades. Unless you think it would actually make the world more stable. Which I understand a few folks think is so, but obviously Bush doesnt. And Id have to agree with him.
#20
lh, you don't understand the difference between law inforcement and war. We are still not at war. We will be at war. In war, innocents get killed and it's unfortunate, but that's war. Ask Sherman. He didn't sort out the southerners who advocated secession from those who didn't.
* War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.
* I would make this war as severe as possible, and show no symptoms of tiring till the South begs for mercy.
* This war differs from other wars in this particular: We are not fighting armies but a hostile people, and must make young and old, rich and poor, feel the hard hand of war.
* You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out.
* You cannot have peace and a division of our country. If the United States submits to a division now it will not stop, but will go on till we reap the fate of Mexico, which is eternal war.
* My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
* War is, at its best, barbarism.
That's how an honest man describes we fight amongst ourselves. Ask the Germans and Japanes how we fight with our enemies.
#21
Some of the silent ones are against us, but afraid to take up arms. Some are FOR us, but afraid to even speak up for us. Some are genuinely neutral, and some are simply too premodern to have a sense that they are in any way part of this struggle. We have an interest in keeping those who are neutral, neutral. Or We have an interest in those that dislike us, but are unwilling to take up arms against us, continuing to remain passive. We have an interest in those who silently support us, moving more openly to our side.
Three years ago, I would have agreed with you, liberalhawk. Now, I simply do not. The central issue is boiling down to one of simple survival. No, the barbarians are not storming the gates. What they are doing is getting ready to smuggle atomic bombs into America, if they haven't already.
That is what changes the perspective of this issue. The radical component of Islam has become so dangerous that we can no longer afford to tiptoe about in our enforcement missions. Regardless of whether or not Muslims will only respect overwhelming force, it is something that needs to, at least appear on the table - in the case of nuclear arms, or begin to be applied against truly intractable situations like Iran.
And yes, our interests in some cases need to be narrowly defined. There are millions in Afghanistan who hate the Taliban, but arent real interested in say, legalizing conversion from Islam, or equal inheritance rights for women. We dont have the resources to conduct a crusade to reform every aspect of culture in every muslim country, nor do we need to. Bush has it right. Lets stay focused, balance our strategies with our resources.
Your strategy implies that we have the luxury of time. I argue against that and believe that only by exerting some significant deterrents will we have any chance of avoiding truly horrendous attacks upon American soil. Some examples need to be made por enourager les autres. No, we do not need to obliterate any countries with nuclear weapons. That would be ham-fisted at best and inviting terrorist nuclear attack at worst.
What we do need to do is begin employing our weapons and materiel to make significant alterations of the political landscape in the Middle East. Iran is the pluperfect example. There is no possible regime that could replace the current Ahmadinejad-mullahcracy combination and be any worse and, quite possibly, even remotely as bad. We take no risk creating a power vacuum in Tehran. All we must do is keep sufficient force of arms stationed nearby to discourage an entity like communist China from meddling. Same goes for Syria and, eventually, Pakistan.
While you may not be willing to admit it, the day has arrived for the gloves to come off. While our administration cautiously probes and interdicts Muslim tyranny, nearly all the remaining world's governments prink about with triangulation, outright treachery or idiotic neutrality in this critical conflict. This only forces our hand all the more and obliges us to play the strong suit that we hold. It is time to lay down some trump cards in the form of openly discussing the nuclear option and making it crystal clear that this is what awaits further Islamic atrocities.
You may whine about how decentralized Islam is with respect to not having a Pope or other major authority figure. We are not to blame for that and Islam can no longer hide behind this flimsy excuse for its deafening silence. All we are obliged to do is survive. One sure route towards that is by killing the majority of Islam's jihadist clergy and putting the ummah on notice that nuclear fire awaits their continued assault on the Western world.
#22
We will not sort out Islam's psychotic killers. A couple more mass casualty attacks or a school or two in the west, and all bets are off. It will be analogous to "nuke the site from space - it's the only way to be sure."
The Pak reporter that has contacts with al Qaeda was interviewed on the radio today about their next attacks in Washington and NY. He thinks they will bigger than 911 and soon because they have "completed thier cycle of warnings."
The problem is not with a few extremists. The problem is with the ideology. The longer we wait to respond forcefully, the higher the butcher's bill will be.
Somehow we must communicate to Islam that this is their "Golden Hour" (per "The Three Conjectures"). The sands of Islam are running rapidly through the hourglass. When the grains finally run out there may not be a single hand left alive to upend their escape.
#26
Islam is a major part of the problem, but the enablers are the Saudi "princes" and their billions of dollars from oil, and a few extremists in Iran with similar billions from the same source. Take out these two sources of funds and encouragement and half or more of the mideast problems would disappear. We're once again fighting a war where there are "safe areas" for the enemy to flee to, and where the supporters that fund the war are considered "off limits". I thought we actually LEARNED something from Vietnam - I know I, and most other Vietnam vets, thought so. We're fighting this "war" with both feet in buckets and one arm tied behind us. That's a sure-fire recipe for failure. Unbind the giant, and let him crush our opponents mercilessly.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
09/20/2006 14:26 Comments ||
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#27
Doesn't matter if we cut off the money, they'll be pissed at us because we did, and there's still more than enough to go around and the lefties won't let them starve or return to the mo conditions of the 600s.
#28
Gawd, Zenster, you're so full of crap. You've never agreed with any concept, AT ALL, of moderate Islam. You never would have agreed with liberalhawk. You never have. I mean, am I going to have to go back in the archives and retrieve your opinions? It's really a concern that you keep saying "how much you've changed" when you haven't. Why are you claiming this? Hoping to garner more people to your way of thinking? Gathering followers? You're a Bush-hater from way back as well. So just come off it and be proud of your opinions--stop backwashing.
"We have an interest in keeping those who are neutral, neutral."
This is politics 101.
"We have an interest in those that dislike us, but are unwilling to take up arms against us, continuing to remain passive."
Part B, politics 101.
"We have an interest in those who silently support us, moving more openly to our side."
Well, duh.
This fight doesn't lend itself well to black-and-white thinking. Do you really think we can take on the whole Islamic world at once?
Bush was smart in his UN speech to seperate the people in Iran, Syria, etc. from their rulers--by telling the people they're being lied to, oppressed, and abused by their rulers, he refuses to play into their propaganda mills. By saying we're not at war with Islam, he removes one of the extremists best cards. No Moslem likes hearing that the US is making war against Islam, which is what the imams and radicals claim. It just confuses them.
#32
May I add that the silent moderate muzzies were in the street against Danish cartoons and Papal quotes. The radicals don't march, they kill. Moderate muzzies burn churcges.
#33
#28, Do you really think we can take on the whole Islamic world at once? - well ex-lib, I think the answer to that question is quite categorically, yes.
And I believe GWB and the current US administration knows that very well, which is why they have spent huge sums of money, used up vast amounts of political capital, and several thousand servicemen and women have given their lives in this war. Why? because they have to show that they've done everything honourable to try and find a way to bring Islam into the 21st Century. We all know what some of the other options are.
As for 'moderate Islam', I for one have totally given up on that, as I simply don't believe that such a concept exists - if so, we would surely have seen one, just one demonstration whereby some 'moderate muslims' would have squared up against another group of 'radical' muslims who are; calling for the beheading of the Pope, or the killing of cartoonists, or killing nuns, or burning churches, or shrieking for the destruction of America or Israel or Britain or Australia or any one of a dozen other 'seething' events that have become so commonplace.
I have not heard of one, not one. In the last five years. Not one event.
This is not good...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/20/2006 16:38 Comments ||
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#34
Oh by the way RD, Texas-Taqiyya is sooo-perb!
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/20/2006 16:39 Comments ||
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#35
Something tells me it's not a 'Texas-Taqiyya' (BTW, I love the term!), but that the President actually believes it.
That's a real problem. Islam will continue to destroy the lives of it's followers and non-followers alike, until the west diagnoses the disease correctly.
Islam is utterly incompatible with freedom. Wishing it were otherwise doesn't change it.
#37
" . . . As for 'moderate Islam', I for one have totally given up on that, as I simply don't believe that such a concept exists - if so, we would surely have seen one, just one demonstration whereby some 'moderate muslims' would have squared up against another group of 'radical' muslims . . . I have not heard of one, not one. In the last five years. Not one event."
Well, you could always do your homework (regarding Moslems' protests against Islamo-terrorism).
So, it's out there. There are links to websites sponsored by Iranians and Iraqis that routinely denounce these idiot extremists. By saying that there are no Moslems who are against terrorism, you play into the hands of the extremists who want a world-wide jihad to usher in their false mahdi, and the leftist press, which doesn't often report the truth about all of this. Don't do that, because it's stupid.
#41
And, of course, let's not forget all those times where moderates have ousted their jihadist imams and showed up at the extremist rallies to kick some jihadi ass. How could any of us possibly forget those huge Muslim blood drives to help the hospitalized 9-11 victims? [spit]
#42
Oooooh. "Shut up, Zenster." Now there's a winning debate technique. I mean, it works so well in all the Islamic countries. Why not try it here. So civil. So polite. So erudite. So pathetic.
#43
Then, GROW up, Zenster and stop agitating on this board. Have you educated yourself yet, or are you still helping the terrorists by your uninformed rhetoric?
Wow, that sounds, so . . . I dunno, Middle Eastern-ish.
Hey guys . . . Rantburgians! . . . ex-lib "HURLS ALL the insults."
Are you really that offended that I told you to "shut up?" Maybe, since I'm a woman. (But then, you've probably also forgotten that I never fail to compliment your better points made here, when you do make them--or maybe you've just discredited them for the same reason?).
Thanks "Zenster."
Get ready for a big rant from Mr. "Z" in 3, 2, 1 . . .
#47
Islam as disorganized as it is is having a revolution.
We all can see by reading the material we get here the trend around the world of more "Islamic republics" more democratically elected regimes that, to us , seem isane and criminal, more islamic immigrants in formerly civilized countries pronouncing themselves to be downtrodden and oppressed and calling for a separate law for them, or even institution of said "law" for all.
The general rage and seething of the "muslim street", the world over, may not represent the full or majority opinion and for darn sure we here aren't representing all the range of opinions just putatively on our side ( moonbattery).
To make matters worse, dictators of all stripes and denominations seem to have made careful note of this seeming cultural shift toward Islam and have lined up behind it, whether
because they see it as the coming thing or because they just want to knock off the USA. So now, in addition to the international criminal terrorist groups waging Holy Jihad, we have a fair sized group of countries (or leaders thereof),
going this way, and it looks well threatening to us our way of life, and whatever visions of the future you or I might have had.
A leader of a foriegn nation just concluded a thouroughly insulting speech directed at our president ( not my guy , but still the president) and referred to him as "El Diablo".
This alignment of the non-aligned with the Islamists coupled with the national quality that the jihad is taking on, added to the verbal abuse and pretty obvious power bid to restructure the UN all show that this cancerous ideology has spread
much further than extremist groups and international terrorists.
While it is obvious that "they can't all be evil" , it is getting harder to really believe that there are a billion innocent bystanders, when I know that the vision of "World of Islam" cannot help but be attractive to Muslims of an average temperament.
Something must be able to shock all of these pidgeons back into their holes.
Some force must be available that would cancel the world leading plans of the leader
of the BAsiji, and frighten the rest of the pack enough to change their ways.
Because otherwise they aren't. They will keep coming and keep attacking and keep making us follow their rules even as they are now.
We know what that is.
So if we cannot take on the whole ISlamic world+nonaligned dictators, should we just capitulate now ? Let them have their way ? Change the rules of the UN ?
Follow their rules of public discourse and polity ?
No. An example must be made. Maybe more than one.
PS this rambling crap is why i usually don't write such long things.
Posted by: J. D. Lux ||
09/20/2006 18:03 Comments ||
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#48
LISTEN UP, IDIOT POSTING FROM IP 86.129.34.251: WE DON'T TOLERATE SPOOFING OTHER PEOPLE'S NAMES HERE.
#49
ex-lib, Seems like you'd rather flame Zen than answer the simple question, "If Bush had said 'We are at war with Islam.' How would things have changed anywhere, except Dearborn?"
#50
There are moderate Muslims around, but they are certainly outgunned, and probably also outnumbered if recent polls are anything to go by. (Only 17% of UK Muslims think their co-religionists were responsible for 9/11.) At some point, people might start to ask themselves if it's worth continuing to pussyfoot around in order not to offend the minority of decent, moderate Muslims, who appear to have approximately zero chance of bringing about change in the Islamic world.
#51
I think .com nailed it here in comment #33. It's simply true:
"Lessons B Hard. History is replete with examples, it's hard to locate an exception in fact, of societies which were dragged into war by the most vocal and acrimonious among them - I think of them as the "activated" Muzzies. Shorthand it to Asshats for convenience and clarity. Those not overtly "activated" among them I think of as the "resource pool" for they are either complicit in their support or irrelevant in their silence. Even the most innocent among them, let's call them the LMOOIs (Leave Me Out Of It), will be going to war, sooner or later... dragged there by the majority who fill the other categories. It has always been thus, and always will be so. Tough shit - for all of us."
Indeed, it will be tough shit for them and for us.
And NS: I've been outing Islam-icks here way before you arrived. Islmofacist is a term I posted here several years ago. It caught on. So shut up. Oops. Oh no. Bet I offended you to.
But, seriously, to answer your question (though I know Zenster won't answer mine), Pres. Bush saying that the "US is at war with Islam" would have completely polarized the current political situation--making it FAR worse than it already is. The general populations of the Islamic countries would be caught in the whilwind the extremists are attempting to create. Remember the Aminahajibs of the world WANT war. They WANT to inflame the West. The extremists must be called out from the mainstream, and the mainstream needs to be defined recognized. Another answer to one of Zenster's miscalculations about the "Moslem street," is that the general populations of these countries are unarmed, and are bullied (to put it mildly) by the guys with the guns.
#53
Koala -- it's not about "pussyfooting" around the moderates. It's about coming down hard on the hardliners while not adding to their numbers. The extremists exert a lot of control over what the people hear. It may not make a difference in the long run, but it's unfortunate that fear seems to be clouding the rationale of reasonable thinkers here. DO THE HOMEWORK, then make up your mind?
#55
flyover: I totally agree with .com, my old buddy.
He said:
"To my mind, the disinformationists are even more deadly and more deserving of death than suicide bombers - they seek to erode and destroy the will to fight, removing all of our intellectual and technological advantages. They seek to drag us down to the level of the barbarians."
There may come a time when hundreds of thousands of innocents will die because of the extremists, but until then, it behooves us to NOT condemn the entire group. I know for a fact that the majority of Iranians are not like the mullah asshats. What a mistake to lump them all together.
A couple of years ago I said that ethnocentrism on our part will win this fight for the Islamofacists. It's still true. As angry as we all are, black and white thinking is for babies. We have to be informed and we have to be shrewd.
#60
Hey f-wad--whoever you are. If you think you can disrupt this board by nabbing people's posting handles, you don't know what Fred can do.
Zenster, I'm sorry that you also are being dinked around with. I may not agree with your one track mindedness, but this shouldn't go on. Fred will deal with it.
#61
ex-lib - You cut that quote off at a convenient point, LOL. A couple more sentences...
"Irony lives here... To defeat them we will eventually have to adopt barbaric measures."
Be nice, LOL.
I think he's looking past the "what we want" stage we're discussing here and tossing in the "what we will have to do" stage. I've spent a lot of time in the archives, LOL, and found some of his stuff hard to ignore, made me a "fan" of a sort... he talked many times about the fact that it would become very ugly, far uglier than we could now accept or even imagine, way back in the 2003 timeframe - he used the "gloves off" metaphor, usually.. Kinda scary, actually. And he did not glory in it, he abhorred it... but apparently he saw no other way, since we don't seem to have any will to act until we are bloodied and backed into a corner. That is the American Way, in wars.
I've offered the notion of a quarantine, overlapping with others here on that idea, because I don't want to go there, either. It won't work comprehensively, of course, but perhaps it will buy us some time to wear them down while we pick off the worst of the worst. I'm just not sure we can even keep up, however. They breed and indoctrinate faster than we're killing them, by a wide margin.
#63
We do have a number of issues coming to a head in a very short timespan - presuming we intend to survive this challenge, that is.
Iran must go. Decapped and defanged, or else we are in incredibly deep shit. There will be some innocents who die, directly due to our actions, and indirectly because we take down the power grid, wipe out gas supplies, who knows what else, and probably because of some lawless insanity from surviving IRGC and basij elements. Should that dissuade us? No. Hell no.
We can reassess after Iran where we go from there. I have the feeling this action will alter the others in several ways -- and which next demands our immediate attention will likely be up in the air until then.
It is my unwavering opinion that it will get ugly - much uglier than any who have never been in combat can possibly imagine, just as it once was for those who have. We will all get a taste of it, a trial by fire. It will probably begin with multiple strikes in the US. If so, our reaction will be interesting. It will certainly finish up the polarization process... Then Americans will be facing the same situation the Muzzies do now: get on board or get fucked. Funny, ain't it?
#64
The she goes again - shouting and waving her fists around. YOU grow up ex-lib. Give it a rest. You seem to think you are tough behind your keyboard, but I think you know that most folks would slap you cross-eyed if you argued that way face to face - woman or not. Who appoited you Zenster's or anyone else's conscience?
Most here have seen your homework. I have at any rate, and I don't give it much weight. The Muslims protest when terrorism occurs in their house, but not in other's houses.
Lessons B Hard. History is replete with examples, it's hard to locate an exception in fact, of societies which were dragged into war by the most vocal and acrimonious among them - I think of them as the "activated" Muzzies. Shorthand it to Asshats for convenience and clarity. Those not overtly "activated" among them I think of as the "resource pool" for they are either complicit in their support or irrelevant in their silence. Even the most innocent among them, let's call them the LMOOIs (Leave Me Out Of It), will be going to war, sooner or later... dragged there by the majority who fill the other categories. It has always been thus, and always will be so. Tough shit - for all of us."
"Indeed, it will be tough shit for them and for us.
#65
While it is obvious that "they can't all be evil" , it is getting harder to really believe that there are a billion innocent bystanders, when I know that the vision of "World of Islam" cannot help but be attractive to Muslims of an average temperament.
Something must be able to shock all of these pidgeons back into their holes.
Some force must be available that would cancel the world leading plans of the leader
of the BAsiji, and frighten the rest of the pack enough to change their ways.
Because otherwise they aren't. They will keep coming and keep attacking and keep making us follow their rules even as they are now.
We know what that is.
So if we cannot take on the whole ISlamic world+nonaligned dictators, should we just capitulate now ? Let them have their way ? Change the rules of the UN ?
Follow their rules of public discourse and polity ?
No. An example must be made. Maybe more than one.
Too many hard carriage returns? Yes. "Rambling crap", not at all, J.D. Lux. You also made some excellent points about the non-aligned nations' cozying up to Islam.
#67
The phoney ex-lib and the phoney Zenster are MrGod and Exxon, posting from btbroadband.com in Britain.
Goopta posts from btbroadband.com as well. Probably the same guy.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 19:22 Comments ||
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#68
From William T. Sherman, Military Division of the Mississippi Special Field Order 120, November 9, 1864 In districts and neighborhoods where the army is unmolested no destruction of such property should be permitted; but should guerrillas or bushwhackers molest our march, or should the inhabitants burn bridges, obstruct roads, or otherwise manifest local hostility, then army commanders should order and enforce a devastation more or less relentless according to the measure of such hostility.
#71
It may make some sense to look at these issues in the light of past conflicts. During past conflicts our nation has always appreciated the support of those within the borders of the conflict who were willing to support Justice and oppose Tyranny -- from the inside. So why would that mode of opposing tyranny (supporting and appreciating the efforts of those most affected by the tyranny) be different that now the enemy is islamofacism? Now, more than ever, dont we need people like Dietrich Bonhoeffer of the German resistance movement against Nazism; Colonel Alfred Touny of the French Resistance; and all the others who fought and died in the German and French resistance movements, not to mention those in Belgium, Poland, the Netherlands and elsewhere? The truth is we need every single Muslim who is willing to man an oar against the tyranny of islamofascism. And tarring all Muslims with the same brush serves no useful purpose.
I agree the conflict will get brutal. I agree that many innocents will be collateral damage. But that happens with or without being supportive of moderate Muslims. And I believe it happens less so with the support of moderate Muslims.
Many Muslims can be our allies in the WOT -- as evidenced by the dead bodies and spilt blood of those Muslims the islamofascists target as collaborators -- whether in Palestine, Iraq, or elsewhere in the world. Hope springs eternal, perhaps, but no people group is subhuman. Cultures can reset and return to proactive modes. A policy decision has to be made to pursue every possible positive and prosocial change to reduce islamofascist source populations -- with annihilation of source populations ever as a last resort. I, for one, support the policies of President Bush to seek change.
IMO, the history of past posting shows that Zenster probably has ulterior motives that tend to become clearer closer to elections -- he voices strong support (to the point of utter overkill) for positions obviously near and dear to many who visit this blog -- and then (here and there, thrown in as if afterthoughts) mocks Bush and the validity of Bush's presidency, without any proof to back up the slander. As Ive stated and asked before:
Zenster, just because you sound pro-military doesnt mean youre not some DU operative (or equivalent) out to slam Bush. The lack of realism to the gung ho, pro-military solutions you spout makes me question your sincerity. Please persuade me otherwise, if you think Im wrong. Also, I dont recall you ever answering a central question that you have been repeatedly asked: How do you square your kill them all, let God sort them out rhetoric with your Bush is a crook rhetoric?
Generally, when I ask Zenster this question he/she just stops posting for awhile, but I really think inquiring minds would like to hear Zensters answer to the question.
#72
Fred and Agent Orange are working on the troll from Londonistan.
In the meantime, Zenster and ex-Lib, a little more civility to each other please. You're both on the same side. Thx, AoS.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/20/2006 20:10 Comments ||
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#73
cingold - Your most compelling point is the resistance movements that surfaced in conflicts past. If it happens again among Muslims, then they will be dealt with as we did with others - we learned as we went then and it will happen that way again - as possible allies, but not embraced wholesale. The resistance movements were, indeed, helpful as we invaded the lands where they existed and where they were courageous enough to cooperate. Their personal goals, and it was obviously personal to partisans, frequently did not overlap with our strategic goals. They also brought a dangerous security risk, since they were usually perfectly amateurish amateurs. Additionally, they were also heavily infiltrated and many Allied servicemen died at their hands or by their blunders. So we will use such help, if and when it comes, with common sense. Those who actually help will, of course, be spared and deserving of thanks and support. An observation to add is that historically the resistance was a very small percentage of the population in question. So point taken, but don't go overboard.
#74
.com -- Iran must go. Decapped and defanged, or else we are in incredibly deep shit.
As usual, dot says it better and more economically than I can.
Iran delenda est.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/20/2006 20:12 Comments ||
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#75
SR-71 posts at #64: "The she goes again - shouting and waving her fists around. YOU grow up ex-lib. Give it a rest. You seem to think you are tough behind your keyboard, but I think you know that most folks would slap you cross-eyed if you argued that way face to face - woman or not. Who appoited you Zenster's or anyone else's conscience?"
Are you suggesting that ex-lib has no right to express a point of view different from your own?
Are you suggesting that violence against this woman would be a good way to silence her for daring to tell someone to shut-up?
Are you suggesting that her information should be ignored because you dont agree with it?
Are you suggesting that her criticisms of another are morally repugnant and should be censored on those grounds?
Have you never looked at and thought about the graphic that accompanies the motto of Civil, well-reasoned discourse that heads this website?
If so (in answer to any of the above), then you are a narrow-minded ignoramus and bigot, who has nothing to offer the world IMO. What I saw ex-lib as arguing, and arguing fairly well -- if bluntly, was that it is a dangerous and destructive thing to ignore the contributions of the Muslim world to the global war against islamofascism. And that Zenster is obnoxious for making those kinds of arguments. Regarding the Muslim world, there is no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water. Take for instance Indonesias Liberal Islam Network (see past post on the subject here at Rantburg). I think it is telling that the outrage in Indonesia -- the largest Muslim nation in the world, and a huge country just in terms of population -- about the Popes recent comments led to some march in Jakarta (the capital) that was just a few hundred people in size, if that. And leaders across Indonesia, including prominent, popular religious leaders, are encouraging people to forgive and forget. That speaks of a different kind of worldview -- one directly at odds with islamofascism.
Id have to say, SR-71, that your comments toward ex-lib are much more in line with the tenets of islamofascism than comments about the Pope that I see coming from Muslims in Indonesia. Now, thats something to think about.
#77
Cultures can reset and return to proactive modes.
During WW2, Japanese believed their emperor was a living God. We reset their modes twice, and now they are friends, allies, and honest competitors.
So, cingold, you advocate nuclear war ?
No, just undefined appeasment.
Part of the reason some here are way out in front pro war is that so many are still in denial and dragging their feet. It's natural to over enphasize the task at hand, yet necessary for the sake of focus.
#78
NS: The Muslims "sitting this out" are not sitting it out. They are the silent majority of muslims who do not condemn what the "minority" are doing. They are, in effect, taking a side. They would be perfectly happy to see the minority win and are doing nothing to stop it.
We don't need a majority or even a significant percentage to condemn terrorist attacks. All we need is for a fraction of a percentage to point the terrorists out to us. Our military and police forces can take care of the rest. And Muslims are pointing them out to us. Which is why there haven't been any successful attacks on US soil since 9/11. Al Qaeda's leadership understood that American Muslim communities - whatever the leadership's rhetoric - were not to be trusted, which is why the 9/11 attackers stayed aloof while making their preparations. I don't think we need to come to a meeting of minds with Muslims over Israel or Kashmir - we probably never will. We just need a tiny minority to point out the terrorists to us. And they have been doing so - in Iraq and in Afghanistan.
Muslims are divided by many of the same things that Westerners are - language, ethnicity and religious denomination. It would be a pity to fight them all when we can fight just the ones who want to kill us in a practical sense (al Qaeda terrorists), as opposed to the ones who just hate us in the abstract* (Malaysians, Turks, Saudis, et al).
* Note that the French, Russians, Koreans, Chinese, Filipinos, et al, also hate us in the abstract. No one has proposed going to war with these countries on the basis of their sentiments.
The guys who hate us the most, and with the most practical (although not justified) reasons for hating us, are the Latin American countries. A *lot* of them were exhilarated when 9/11 occurred. We're not going to go fight them. Hate and resentment are a constant in the international arena. To conserve blood and treasure, we fight only the parties that actively plot and carry out attacks against us.
Everybody, please forgive me for taking the bait. I'll try to make this the last time.
#46 What insults, Zenster?
Let me count the ways ...
#28 Gawd, Zenster, you're so full of crap.
Insult # 1. While this might represent an opinion, it also contains scatological attribution which is ill mannered at best and generally recognized by polite society to be rude and crude.
#28 You've never agreed with any concept, AT ALL, of moderate Islam.
Insult # 2. Accusing someone of lying is significant slander of their character, more commonly known as an "insult".
#28 You never would have agreed with liberalhawk. [re: The existence of Moderate Muslims]
Insult # 3. Some of my initial posts at Rantburg dealt with Moderate Muslims. Back then, I sided with Fred Pruitt regarding how important it was to recognize the existence of these potentially important allies in the War on Terrorism.
I have conducted a search and the limited investigative tools available at Rantburg make it extremely difficult to isolate such far removed posts. I'll ask anyone here who remembers my early posts in support of Moderate Muslims to please check in.
#28 You never have.
Insult # 4. Repetitive, but an insult nonetheless.
#28 I mean, am I going to have to go back in the archives and retrieve your opinions?
Yes, you are, ex-lib. Seeing as how you have a habit of twisting other people's statements out of context, be sure to provide links, emkay? If you are not able to provide a cite and link for where Fred Pruitt and myself both came to the defense of Moderate Muslims world-wide, then please know that you have not searched enough.
#28 It's really a concern that you keep saying "how much you've changed" when you haven't.
Insult # 5. I have changed, just ask .com. Were he not enjoying dinner with a far more companiable companion than any of us, he might lend his word here. I'm quite confident he recalls my early support for Moderate Muslims.
#40 Shut up Zenster.
Insult # 6. The demand that another person refrain from excercizing their inalienable right to free speech can only be seen as an insult. It implies worthlessness and insignificance.
#40 ... and educate yourself.
Insult # 7. I'll let my posts speak for me on this occasion.
#40 You're just another type of extremist if you don't.
Insult # 8. While this might be opinion, seeing as how we are sacrificing American lives fighting (Islamic) extremism, I'll take umbrage at such an accusation and aggregate this with the other aspersions.
#43 Then, GROW up, Zenster
Insult # 9. Immaturity, especially in the arena of significant political positions, falls rather easily into the category of an insult. Which is where I'll place this statement, especially in regard of its emphatic nature.
#43 ... and stop agitating on this board.
Insult # 10. [A]gitating is the occupation of trolls. While I have been accused of this quite often, none of this board's moderators have ever seen fit to adjudge me as such. I dare you to locate the one single occasion where a comment of mine was sinktrapped.
#43 Have you educated yourself yet, or are you still helping the terrorists by your uninformed rhetoric?
Insult # 11. Two insults for the price of one. Pretty much a solid dozen of them in all. Abetting terrorists is a heinous accusation. Fortunately, one that I am readily able to disregard considering the source.
#82
Re: #75... I consider Indonesia to be a rather poor and curious example to bandy about, cingold. It has fallen rather fast over the last few years from a roundly perceived ally to yet another obvious Islamic stain on the globe. You will have to offer up a shitload of very positive links proving your suggestion that it is either moderate or just or reliable or trustworthy or non-Islamist. I don't recall seeing such articles posted here. You suggest there is support for moderation regards the Pope kerfuffle. Please prove it.
In fact, I recall quite the opposite, from the Bashir farce to the classic Muzzy "reaction" to the fantastic assistance offered by the Ozzies and the US after the tsunami. First on the scene, doing everything possible - the only sources of reliable transportation and rescue, generous beyond belief (Fuck Jan Egeland), and then we watched the Indo Muzzies steal all that could be stolen, with no action taken to stop them or recover the aid. Feckless or complicit Muzzy-dominated government is not praiseworthy - it is a shithole, by choice. I'm only surprised they didn't order a fleet of F-16's, like the Pakis did. Perhaps if we're ever foolish enough to assist them again...
I have seen almost nothing to support your point regards Indonesia. BTW, from your odd choice, do I detect you have some affiliation? Divulge it so that your POV can be put into perspective. I am an American who has worked in several places around the world, including the M.E. and Asia, but not including Indonesia.
#83
flyover: I have seen almost nothing to support your point regards Indonesia. BTW, from your odd choice, do I detect you have some affiliation? Divulge it so that your POV can be put into perspective. I am an American who has worked in several places around the world, including the M.E. and Asia, but not including Indonesia.
Indonesians are really, really nice. Really, really polite. Just like Thais, in many ways. Except they're Muslim. I can't speak for cingold, but many expats have formed an attachment to the place because of how hospitable it is. It truly is a wonderful place to live.
#84
Is it even possible to delete idiots? I know the mods can delete idiocy, but idiots? Because I have a few more in mind.
Posted by: Eric Jablow ||
09/20/2006 20:49 Comments ||
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#85
Zenster, just because you sound pro-military doesnt mean youre not some DU operative (or equivalent) out to slam Bush. The lack of realism to the gung ho, pro-military solutions you spout makes me question your sincerity. Please persuade me otherwise, if you think Im wrong. Also, I dont recall you ever answering a central question that you have been repeatedly asked: How do you square your kill them all, let God sort them out rhetoric with your Bush is a crook rhetoric?
cingold, please cite and link to any early post where I railed against the questionable aspects of the 2000 elections and, simultaneously, suggested that we should "kill them all, let God sort them out".
If you cannot, please retract what you have posted.
I'll readily suggest that you have, for the umpteenth time, conflated my search and nomination of what might comprise a credible deterrent against terrorism with such a heinous and murderous notion.
If you wish to suddenly telescope forward, contrary to your suggestions, yes, I am rapidly approaching such a position. If you cannot bring yourself to understand and recognize the slow and incremental steps whereby I have reached these conclusions, then your assertions are worth less than zero.
#86
Hordes of Western tourists and expats hang out in Indonesia, typically not in armed compounds. The only religiously-motivated attacks against them have been of the al Qaeda/JI variety. No lone gunmen striking out or anything like that. Indonesia may have treated the Bali bombers leniently, but the average Indonesian isn't really into attacking Westerners.
#87
I'll readily suggest that you have, for the umpteenth time, conflated my search and nomination of what might comprise a credible deterrent against terrorism with such a heinous and murderous notion.
That would be:
I'll readily suggest that you have, for the umpteenth time, conflated my search FOR and nomination of what might comprise a credible deterrent against terrorism with such a heinous and murderous notion.
#90
Ahmedinajihad did a great job of laying out the enemy position at the UN; Islam should rule the world and all should submit to Allan, whether they want to or not. That has been a consistent undercurrent in Islam since its founding. Christianity is equally ambitious, but has become increasingly less aggressive in forcing conversion as time has past. A similar mellowing has been absent from Islam.
My point is not that Muslims are monolithic in everything or that the same methods will need to be used on them all, any more than that Sherman's marches were all the same. But they will all have to learn that their ambitions will no longer be attainable via the sword because there is a bigger dog on the block who isn't going to put up with their bullying much longer.
American Muslims understand this pretty well and have probably been helpful in their own way. But they have not contributed any 442 RCT.
We will have to step on the Sauds before this is over; they are sourcing it intellectually and financing it. The Turks and Malaysians are making their own decisions now and are probably ionclined to prefer our position, ceteris paribus. We will probably not have to stomp on them all. But all of them will have to change their minds to our understanding about how we will live together before it is over.
The situation with the Latin Americans is in some ways a continuation of the rivalry between the Spanish and English. It's now hard to take too seriously. They learned how to at least vacation together. We can too.
#91
And leaders across Indonesia, including prominent, popular religious leaders, are encouraging people to forgive and forget.
Intrinsic in this statement is that there has been some sort of wrongdoing in the first place. If this is your actual position, cingold, then you may need to reconsider where you stand with respect to Islam and its intensely antagonistic relationship with the West.
The Pope did no wrong. Your reference to forgiveness automatically implies that Benedict made an error of judgement. He did no such thing. The Pope asked that Muslims reconsider the repellant role of violence in religious conversion and how reason is critical in any honorable relationship with God and faith in general.
Feel free to point up the deficiencies in Benedict's arguments.
#93
The problem is Islam--nothing more, nothing less. Its an ideology whose very "holy" book teaches its believers that it is *destined* to an earthly rule over those that don't believe. Until men worldwide stop pretending that the ideology is worthy of anything other than ridicule, there will always be extremists literalists that read these texts and attempt to act upon them.
The reason that so many of the (alleged) "moderate" Muslims sit on the sideline and do NOTHING to eradicate the extremists literalists in their midst is two fold: the fear of reprisal by the extremists literalists and the fear that they may be interfering with what Allah predestined.
Until Islam is the source of constant ridicule and relegated to the ash heap of history, it will rebound with terror again and again.
#94
The reason that so many of the (alleged) "moderate" Muslims sit on the sideline and do NOTHING to eradicate the extremists literalists in their midst is two fold: the fear of reprisal by the extremists literalists and the fear that they may be interfering with what Allah predestined.
Until Islam is the source of constant ridicule and relegated to the ash heap of history, it will rebound with terror again and again.
#95
That's touching, Zhang Fei - you'll pardon me if I don't take much comfort from your personal observations. Individuals are what they are. There are good ones and bad ones everywhere. Why is it, taking your assessment as the general rule you present it to be, that they elect and tolerate an Islamist government? Governments are what they are, too... You didn't address the actions / inactions regards Bashir or the Muzzy hijacking of tsunami aid. They had no trouble imprisoning an Ozzy tourist for 10x the sentence that Bashir received for masterminding the Bali bombing. Smell something?
Civility is, indeed, nice. Government complicity with Muzzy extremists isn't. That situation exists in Indonesia and Malaysia, both.
I found your #78 interesting. Sure, taking on a billion people at once would be quite taxing, LOL. But it wouldn't happen even if Bush had said we are at war with Islam, not just Islamists. Why? Because it's a logistical impossibility. They only rub up against Western civilization in certain places. Of course there is bloodshed at all of those places, big surprise, huh? Those already inside the West are minorities - for the moment - and that keeps them in check where the laws make sense and are enforced. Most people are cowards, anyway. They have to be indoctrinated to overcome that problem. Another logistical problem is that, just as with anyone else - any other society, not many can just drop everything and go off to kill infidels... probably why most of the actual killers are middle-class or higher in status. It affords such flights from reality. The family still gets fed and sheltered.
The question is what do we do? There are a billion people who "belong" to an ideology bent upon the destruction of the West since it stands in the way of Islam's true goal: true global dominion. I would like to throw them all out of the Western World and quarantine them. Cut off all access to technology of any kind. Make every rub point positively electric with vicious payback for any incursion. I don't want to kill them all, but I have this feeling it won't matter one whit what I want. They will force the issue and we will respond, eventually, with overwhelming force. It's the rational thing to do when confronted by an implacable and suicidal enemy.
P.S. I do find the talk and aversion about conventional vs nukes rather odd in some ways. Dead is dead. I've been in combat and I can attest to that as fact. Throat cut while sleeping on guard or shot dead defending your post. Dead is dead. Faster is "better", I'd guess, since I've seen guys linger for many hours and days in excruciating pain. On the whole, however, I want the other guy to do the dying.
Oh well, that is my take on this topic and it doesn't much matter if I'm in the majority or minority or if the discussion become irrelevant due to changing circumstances - it will have zero effect on how this plays out. We're all just wanking off here, anyway.
#96
cingold, disregarding for the moment (as if it were possible), the endless atrocities of Islamic terrorism, how do you justify the almost universal and institutionalized abuse of women that occurs under Islam's watch? Genital mutilation, enforced illiteracy, prohibition of unchapperoned excursions, inability to obtain divorce with equal ease of males, lack of universal suffrage?
Are you somehow able to overlook these abominations in your defense of Moderate Muslims?
#98
Ok, let's kill this "moderate muslim" BS once and for all. There is NO SUCH THING.
Islam is a very regimented, top-down religion. Muslims are taught from their very first breath that Islam is the "only" religion, that the Koran is the undisputed word of God, and they must live according to what the Imams and preachers say they should live, because "that's how God wants it". Any other belief is apostacy, punishable by death. Muslims then have only two choices: adhering to the teachings of mohamhead, as spewed by their preachers, or death. If the preachers push for war, war is the only acceptable response. If they push for "hatred of the infidel", everyone must hate the "infidel". Trying to assess islam or muslims from a western perspective is counter-productive. The only thing that matters (to muslims) is the mutterings of the mad mullahs. There is no "middle ground". The death cult of islam doesn't allow it.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
09/20/2006 21:53 Comments ||
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#99
Nothing more than the IP noted in the redactions above. Fred, separately, has invoked the Baltimore Sanction and is taking extreme... measures.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/20/2006 21:53 Comments ||
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#100
Indonesia has been rabid for a long time just not noticed by the MSM.
I remember in the 60s my parents and their friends talking about Christians massacred in village and neighborhood quantities by the Indonesian muslim riots and the military. Same for the Hindu's.
In 1965 an Italian ship I was on stopped in Jakarta in the middle of their revolution. Which ever group was in control at that instant herded thousands of Indian's to the dock, lined them up with machine guns pointed at them and told the Italian captain that if he didn't take them they would kill them right there. He took them and I saw it with my own childish eyes.
Later in the trip I found Karachi to be most scary place I have every been, Aden to be an endless riot of mobs with torches (just before it became the peoples republic of) and Egypt to filled to the gills with Soviet weapons and Soviets everywhere.
Its been this screwed up in Dar Islam forever - the difference is that after 911 a larger part of the US population now acknowledges it.
#101
3dc, you win the # 100th Post Prize of the day. I dread to think of how your young mind was filled with a realistic version of the Friday the 13th garbage that so many of our youth of today wallows in.
#102
Without wishing to be seen as baiting or anything of the sort, ex-lib or cingold, do either of you have any factually based cites to confront me with, or are you just going to run away and toss this shit at me on another convenient occasion?
#103
Things seem to have settled down. Could we just leave it that way, please?
Posted by: Dave D. ||
09/20/2006 22:55 Comments ||
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#104
I refuse to apologize, David D.. Both ex-lib and cingold insist upon smearing my name whenever they feel it is appropriate. If they can't come forward and provide proof of their slanderous assertions, then they need to STFU! (As if that will ever happen.)
#109
From my POV the issue of moderate Islam can be summarised in a nutshell as per this quote:
"Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from then and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhajirs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muslims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai [(property abandoned by fleeing non-Muslims] except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers.) If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from the Jizya [tax]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allahs help and fight them." Sahih Muslim vol.3:4294
Remember, this is a ruling from the earliest days of Islam regarding "moderate Muslims"
They can be a ROP as long as they become Bedouin Muslims, basically sheep who will not be slaughter only shorn by the Muhajirs.
.com's statement as posted by flyover, seem to intuitively understand this. "Lessons B Hard. History is replete with examples, it's hard to locate an exception in fact, of societies which were dragged into war by the most vocal and acrimonious among them - I think of them as the "activated" Muzzies. Shorthand it to Asshats for convenience and clarity. Those not overtly "activated" among them I think of as the "resource pool" for they are either complicit in their support or irrelevant in their silence. Even the most innocent among them, let's call them the LMOOIs (Leave Me Out Of It), will be going to war, sooner or later... dragged there by the majority who fill the other categories. It has always been thus, and always will be so. Tough shit - for all of us."
A lot more could be done to "liberate" this group, for instance allowing them freedom of religion as per the UN declaration of human rights.
Then we wouldn't have such bizarre situations as when we are defending a country such as Afghanistan, who at the same time want to execute on of these Bedouin Muslims who converted to Christianity. And best of all we would be occupying the high moral ground at all times.
In Denver today, a woman was tied to a vehicle with a rope and dragged through suburban streets in a gruesome crime that left a trail of blood more than a mile long, police said. Neighbors discovered the woman's body before dawn Monday about 20 miles south of Denver. The victim's face was unrecognizable and an orange tow rope was found around her neck . . . preliminary autopsy results indicated the woman died of asphyxiation and head injuries from being strangled while dragged by a vehicle . . . In later news today, autopsy results indicated that she was alive while being dragged and then died of her injuries.
Zensters response: Another reluctant bride gets hitched. Other members here challenged his post. Zensters response:
I don't know how many of you here write your own comedy material. I do and I've performed it publically. Try doing it sometime, you might be surprised. Writing a good joke that no one has ever heard before is far more difficult than you probably imagine.
Guess it must be because he failed, which is not as bad as how he explained himself later:
Either you laugh about it or cry about it (tragedy). We're all born crying. Some of us learn to stop.
Well, were all glad Zenster has learned to stop crying when some poor woman is dragged through the streets until dead. One has to wonder if hed be making jokes if it was one of his fellow gay men being dragged by a car until dead by an angry lover. I know I wouldnt.
What does all this have to do with the above? Merely pointing out that Zenster grooms this website with politically correct speak and oodles of compliments for posters he wishes to influence whenever he has an agenda.
And yes, Zenster, Ill look it all up and post it here sometime this week or next when I have the time to find it.
Of course, Zensters insults are the real thing. This is what he said to me about 2 years ago: You deserve every iota of the bile, vitriol and raw sewage floating in your veins. The sterile and intolerant vision of society that you stand for has already manifested in history many times. Sixty years ago countless thousands of American went abroad to fight it and many of them died doing so. We are now busy fighting the exact same sort of intolerance you spew all over again.
At the time, there was a discussion going on about Deconstructionism as a political tool and I had merely said that The intentional "blurring" of social definitions of the homosexual/lesbian political movement is totalitarian in nature, and is another reason it should be opposed. By attempting to deconstruct society through redefining "marriage," "family," "sexuality," etc.--which is designed to overthrow the existing power structures which have their roots in a psychologically, emotionally, biologically and politically healthy view of marriage, family and sexuality, the homosexual/lesbian left (whether or not they are masquerading as "right-wing") seeks to impose their unbending and very religious-like, authoritarian counter-structure that would replace not only the moorings of society, but the moorings of the very political structures that have held our nation, in particular, together. "Political Correctness" becomes the replacement standard--which is nothing more than a mask for totalitarian directions in thinking and action. . . . about homosexuality/lesbianism . . . There is no such thing as "a homosexual" or "a lesbian" or "a bisexual" or "a transsexual." Rather, biologically-emotionally-psychologically-heterosexual men and women who call themselves "homosexual," "lesbian," "bi," or "trans" are simply regular people engaging in sexually-based activities with members of the same sex, or are bouncing between two preferences, or are trying to escape their own sexuality, for a variety of psychological/emotional reasons.
PAKISTANI President Pervez Musharraf today called for a ban on the defamation of Islam in a speech to the UN General Assembly in which he took a veiled swipe at Pope Benedict XVI for his remarks linking the Muslim faith to violence.
We also need to bridge, through dialogue and understanding, the growing divide between the Islamic and Western worlds, General Musharraf told the 192-member assembly.
It is imperative to end racial and religious discrimination against Muslims and to prohibit the defamation of Islam.
In an indirect reference to Pope Benedict XVI, he said, It is most disappointing to see personalities of high standing oblivious of Muslim sensitivities at these critical moments.
Pak's on the carpet for the Wazoo fiasco, so Perv will show a bit of flexibility in Kashmir. Nothing will come of it.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 00:00 ||
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Link ||
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#1
Perv, Perv, Perv - you've not got the hang of this 'mutual assistance' thing have you? Example; you don't go make a deal with the Taliban and then expect the US to be all 'assistive' like. Or maybe you do? Takes all sorts I guess...
What happened to the diarrheic Pakistan of 5 years ago eh?
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/20/2006 0:35 Comments ||
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#2
Is he trading us OSAMA and the top AQ folk to help him make peace?
Kashmir's largest militant group dismissed as meaningless an agreement to resume peace talks by the leaders of India and Pakistan, a news agency reported on Tuesday. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President General Pervez Musharraf at the weekend agreed to restart peace talks that have been stalled since July, when bombings in Mumbai killed more than 200 people. In a statement on Tuesday to a local news agency, Current News Service, the militant group Hizb-ul-Mujahideen said the message of the two leaders carried "nothing new for people of Kashmir". "The declaration uses old and traditional language and is meaningless for the people of Kashmir. Those who are clapping at the declaration are misleading the people," the news agency quoted Hezb spokesman Junaid-ul-Islam as saying. "The only declaration acceptable to the people of Kashmir is one which gives a timeframe for resolving the Kashmir issue," Islam said.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 00:00 ||
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Big finish
"Peoples, driven by their divine nature, intrinsically seek good, virtue, perfection and geauty. Relying on our peoples, we can take giant steps towards reform and pave the road for human perfection.
Whether we like it or not, justice, peace and virtue will sooner or later prevail in the world with the will of Almighty God. It is imperative, and also desirable, that we, too, contribute to the promotion of justice and virtue.
"The Almighty and Merciful God, who is the Creator of the Universe, is also its Lord and Ruler. Justice is His command. He commands His creatures to support one another in Good, virtue and piety, and not in decadence and corruption.
"He commands His creatures to enjoin one another to righteousness and virtue and not to sin and transgression. All Divine prophets from the Prophet Adam (peace be upon him) to the Prophet Moses (peace be upon him), to the Prophet Jesus Christ (peace be upon him), to the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him), have all called humanity to monotheism, justice, brotherhood, love and compassion. Is it not possible to build a better world based on monotheism, justice, love and respect for the rights of human beings, and thereby transform animosities into friendship?
"I emphatically declare that today's world, more than ever before, longs for just and righteous people with love for all humanity; and above all longs for the perfect righteous human being and the real savior who has been promised to all peoples and who will establish justice, peace and brotherhood on the planet.
"O, Almighty God, all men and women are your creatures and you have ordained their guidance and salvation. Bestow upon humanity that thirsts for justice, the perfect human being promised to all by you, and make us among his followers and among those who strive for his return and his cause.
Posted by: J. D. Lux ||
09/20/2006 09:42 ||
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#1
"I emphatically declare that today's world, more than ever before, longs for just and righteous people with love for all humanity . . .
Well, yeah, they do -- especially since you've been in office. ( I guess the women he's executed for nothing has been because of his great "love" for them.)
" . . . today's world, more than ever before, longs for the perfect righteous human being and the real savior who has been promised to all peoples and who will establish justice, peace and brotherhood on the planet . . . the perfect human being promised to all . . ."
Either he thinks he's it, or he wants to be second in command. Guarantee. Anyway, Christ the Lord already came and settled the question. No waiting needed. Following might help, though.
And BTW, is the Left gonna bitch about this blatantly religious-speak from their favorite poster boy?
#4
"...justice, peace and virtue will sooner or later prevail in the world with the will of Almighty God. It is imperative, and also desirable, that we, too, contribute to the promotion of justice and virtue."
Notice that he's not planning to contribute to the promotion of peace.
#9
We need to decorate the lightpoles and trees surrounding the Dept. of States HQ with the inhabitants that reside therein!
I cannot believe those douche nozzles gave him an entry visa to address the U.N. Assembly. I am close to concluding that this Nation is destined for destruction. The sad thing is, it is by our own hand.
#13
It's amazing and alarming how Aminahajib has hijacked typical American speech about religion. His obvious aim is to confuse people and influence the people of the West to support him.
Any time Aminahajib refers to "Almight God," in this speech, he's in no way refering to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--he's not talking about
"One God, Maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible"
Nor "one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages, Light of Light: true God of true God: begotten, not made, being of one essence with the Fatherm by Whom all things were made, Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from the heavens, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man. And was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; And arose again on the third day according to the Scriptures, And ascended into the heavens and sitteth at the right hand of the Father; And shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead: Whose kingdom shall have no end."
Nor "in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life: Who proceedeth from the Father; Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified: Who spake by the prophets. " --Just to set things straight.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Found this--thought some might find it interesting.
From: "Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and loyal citizen?"
Theologically, no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia, turned monothistic.
Scripturally, no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran.
Geographically, no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
Socially, no. Because his allegiance to Islam demands that he make no friends of Christians and Jews (Q. 5:51)
Politically, no. Because he must submit to the mullah, who teaches annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.
Domestically, no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Q. 4:34).
Religiously, no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islamintolerance (Q. 2:256).
Intellectually, no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is established on Biblical principles, and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
Philosophically, no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is dictatorial or autocratic except Turkey.
Spiritually, no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christians God is a triune God, while the Muslims is one entity called "Allah," who is never a heavenly Father, nor is he ever called "Love" in the "99 excellent names."
#15
"Peoples, driven by their divine nature, intrinsically seek good, virtue, perfection and geauty. Relying on our peoples, we can take giant steps towards reform and pave the road for human perfection.
Big difference between Iranian people and everyone else.
Whether we like it or not, justice, peace and virtue will sooner or later prevail in the world with the will of Almighty God. It is imperative, and also desirable, that we, too, contribute to the promotion of justice and virtue.
He got it right about the justice, peace and virtue will sooner or later prevail in the world part.
He commands His creatures to enjoin one another to righteousness and virtue and not to sin and transgression.
Kinda leaves Iran out, now doesnt it?
Fuck, this sort of Islamist bullshit spewing goes on forever, doesn't it? Just for now, I give up. I've got a 100 post thread to get back to.
The chief judge in Saddam Hussein's genocide trial was replaced Tuesday, the government spokesman's office said. Abdullah al-Amiri was replaced by Mohammed al-Uraibiy, who was his deputy in the trial, said a court source. Al-Uraibiy is a Shi'ite, the source said. There was no reason given on why al-Amiri was replaced but the request came from the Iraqi High Tribunal, according to a government source. The request was made in a letter to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, who approved it, he said.
Prosecutors had asked for al-Amiri to be replaced after he allowed Saddam to lash out at Kurdish witnesses. Last week, al-Amiri stirred further controversy after he told the ex-president that "you were not a dictator."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Faster, please. Hope it's NOT 'meet the new judge. same as the old judge.'
Internal strife within Hamas - the internationally outlawed terrorist organization that took over the Palestinian Authority following elections earlier this year - has never been more intense. Hamas leaders in Gaza have all but agreed to form a unity government with Fatah, its older and externally more moderate sister, but the Damascus-based leadership doesn't like the idea at all. Ismail Haniya, who serves as the prime minister of the Palestinian Authority, and Fatah chief Mahmoud Abbas, the PA chairman also known as Abu Mazen, are close to agreeing on the terms of a unity government between them. Currently, Hamas's exclusive control of the government precludes international aid from reaching the PA, and the idea is to bring a semblance of "moderation" that will restore world recognition.
Khaled Mashal, the Hamas leader in Damascus whom Israel tried unsuccessfully to kill nine years ago, says such a government will be established only over his colleague Haniye's dead body. He sent a message to Gaza saying that if Haniya dares to sign a unity agreement with Fatah that does not include clauses guaranteeing the so-called Right of Return and the continued use of terrorism, Haniya "will find his body tossed in a ditch on the side of the road."
Hamas-Fatah unity thus appears more distant than ever - and this is thanks to Khaled Mashal, Jerusalem officials feel. Hamas spokesman Razi Hamed acknowledged yesterday that the negotiations had been temporarily frozen, though he said this would not affect the long-term chances of forming a unity government.
Another obstacle placed before a unity government has come from the other side of the political spectrum - U.S. President George Bush. Bush announced Monday night that he would not recognize the PA government if its guidelines do not include the Quartet's three conditions: recognition of Israel, fulfillment of previous agreements with Israel, and an end to terrorism. The past few day have seen the circulation of several rough copies of an agreement under consideration by Haniye and Abbas. Jerusalem intelligence reveals that the most accurate version, the one agreed upon most recently, was never shown to the U.S. by the PA negotiators. Instead, the Arabs showed the Americans a copy stating that the government will accept the Saudi peace plan of 2002 and the Prisoners' Document, but with the following critical caveat deleted: "As long as this does not clash with Palestinian interests."
Huberman reports in the name of Jerusalem sources that the inclusion of this sentence essentially voids any Hamas consent to enter a diplomatic process with Israel. PA sources say the negotiations have not yet been finalized, and that there is therefore no final rough copy of the agreement. Hamed said, "There is a strong desire of the various Palestinian factions and groups to reach a national unity government... Hamas will not renege on any declaration it has made before now." He acknowledged that there were some issues not yet finalized in the unity negotiations.
Yesterday, Haniye found himself under attack by dozens of angry men in Gaza. They barely allowed him and his car to enter the Gaza government complex, complaining that they had not been paid in months. Several protestors required medical treatment.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 00:00 ||
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#7
Those two rodents behind Mashal sure look happy. I wonder if those Hellfires that blew them to pieces screwed up their sunny dispositions?
I wonder if their eyes follow Mashal around the room?
I wonder if Mashal talks to them?
I wonder if he'll see them in Hell soon?
Jordan's King Abdullah II said Tuesday that until Israel ends its occupation of Palestinian lands and gives Palestinian their rights, the cycle of violence will continue in the region and its effects will be felt throughout the world. "I come before you today with a deep sense of urgency," Abdullah told the 61st session of the United Nations General Assembly. "Never has it been more important for the world community to act decisively for peace in my region."
He said the recent crises in the Middle East - apparently referring to the conflict between Israel and Hizbullah as well as the violence in the Gaza Strip - showed that "there can be no just global order when aggression and occupation are permitted to take the place of international law." "Our youths are asking, 'where is the justice, where is the will of the global community?' We must answer them by establishing a lasting peace based on the international legality we have pledged to uphold," he said.
The flaw in that reasoning is Gaza. Israel's bought off on the idea of a Paleostinian state and they're withdrawn from Gaza. Rather than setting up a peaceful and prosperous ministate that could form the nucleus of the new Paleostine they've trashed it and instituted an anarchic regime that makes Zim-bob-we look well-behaved. My guess is that the West Bank added to the mix would produce a bigger version of Gaza and no lessening of the violence; indeed, it would produce more violence, since without the occupation there wouldn't be any brakes on the arms flow into the area.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Memo to King Abdullah: Provide some functional solutions to the "Right of Return" issue for a change or go piss up a rope.
#2
I'm sure the paleos agree that violence will end when the occupied territories are returned. Thing is, paleos think the country of Israel is "occupied" territory.
We Americans "occupy" America.
You Jordanians "occupy" Jordan.
The Israelis "occupy" Israel.
Um... show me "palestine" on a map. ANY historical map. Find it in any old almanac, encyclopedia, or standard reference. Listen, O high and worshipful asshat, 'palestinians' are an INVENTION.
Posted by: kelly ||
09/20/2006 16:11 Comments ||
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#10
Abdullard,
I know you have a problem with paleostains in your country, but that's a self-inflicted problem. If you'd granted them citizenship, put them to work as productive citizens, and demanded their loyalty in 1948, there wouldn't be a problem today. Instead, you, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon isolated those Arabs that fled the new nation of Israel into "refugee camps" where they could be manipulated into an ever-angry mob that could be used to create havoc on your behest, just as mohamhead created a new "religion" for the sole purpose of countering the Jews and Christians who considered themselves superior in intellect and in the value of work over slovenly, lazy Arab tribalists. You've been fighting ever since, and except for a brief period when the Seljuk Turks took over Islam and created the Ottoman Empire, you've lost. Most people fighting and losing for most of the past 1300 years would get a clue. Maybe the Jews and the early Christians had it right...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
09/20/2006 17:16 Comments ||
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Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas will tell US President George W. Bush on Wednesday that the proposed Palestinian unity government will recognize Israel's right to exist and previous agreements between the PLO and Israel," PA officials told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday. Thousands of Hamas supporters took to the streets of Gaza City on Tuesday calling on Abbas not to succumb to American "dictates" regarding the unity government and to work toward resolving the financial crisis in the PA.
"President Abbas will make it clear that the political program of the unity government will clearly refer to the Arab peace plan that was declared in 2002 and which is based on a two-state solution," said one official. "He will also tell Bush that Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh promised that the unity government would honor all the agreements that were signed with Israel." The officials expressed hope that the US administration would change its negative position regarding the unity government following the planned meeting between Bush and Abbas.
"If the US wants to strengthen President Abbas, it must accept the unity government idea because there is no other alternative," another PA official told the Post. "I don't think the Palestinian public will accept a coup against a democratically elected government." The official confirmed reports in the Arab media that Washington had threatened to boycott Abbas and his Fatah party if they went ahead with plans to join the Hamas-led government. "The US apparently doesn't understand that a national unity government with Hamas is the best solution to the current crisis in the Palestinian Authority," he added.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 00:00 ||
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#6
Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas will tell US President George W. Bush on Wednesday that the proposed Palestinian unity government will recognize Israel's right to exist and previous agreements between the PLO and Israel," PA officials told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday.
And then monkeys shooting bottle rockets will fly out of my ass.
Leaders of various religious parties have demanded the immediate removal of Pope Benedict XVI and announced they will launch a countrywide protest campaign to condemn the pope's remarks against Jihad and Prophet Muhammad (PTUI PBUH).
[consults calendar] Yup, must be Wednesday, the kidz're getting ready for the Friday prayer festivities
The announcement was made after a meeting of 21 representatives of various seminaries and organisations at Jamia Qadsia on Tuesday. Addressing a press conference, Jamaatud Daawa (JD) Punjab chief Maulana Ameer Hamza said the meeting had passed a joint declaration demanding the pope's immediate removal. He said that leaders and scholars of prominent religious parties and organisations had considered Pope Benedict's clarification for the insulting words he had used against Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and his demeaning portrayal of Jihad.
He said that after a thorough discussion on the popes statement, the meeting had unanimously decided that Pope Benedict had not actually apologised for his insulting words and his clarification meant to promote his idea. He said that the religious parties and organisations had unanimously rejected the popes clarification. Figuratively speaking, the popes clarification amounts to a reaffirmation of the proverb justification of a sin is worse than the sin. The pope has not apologised really and his statement was only a clarification, he said.
Meanwhile, the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) also announced it would stage countrywide protests on Friday (September 22) to condemn the popes remarks. The MMAs protest coincides with an identical call for worldwide protests given by Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, who heads the Qatar-based International Forum of Ulema. MMA President Qazi Hussain Ahmad, Secretary General Maulana Fazlur Rehman and other leaders including Prof Sajid Mir, Allama Sajid Naqvi, Shah Ahmad Anas Noorani and Pir Abdur Rehman Naqashbandi appealed to the nation to protest peacefully against the sacrilegious activities of the West now joined by the pope.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 00:00 ||
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#1
Look at the rationality on those guy's faces. Just seething rationality they are...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
09/20/2006 0:15 Comments ||
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#2
I'm worried their Friday prayer festivities will affect mine. L'Shana Tova.
Posted by: Eric Jablow ||
09/20/2006 0:21 Comments ||
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#3
I'm worried their Friday prayer festivities WON'T INVOLVE US KICKING THEIR ASS UNTIL ONLY THEIR HAIR DOESN'T HURT.
#4
Do these people have nothingbetter to do with their time? Any decently functioning country would be brought laid low by all the nationwide strikes and days of mass seething. In Pakistan, no one notices any difference.
Of course they demand the removal of the Pope. It makes perfect sense. In a just world, the spiritual leader of the Roman Catholic Church would be be chosen by and serve at the pleasure of Muslims. Anything less is tyranny and oppression which must be met with the righteous sword of Allan.
Posted by: Baba Tutu ||
09/20/2006 2:47 Comments ||
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#5
Do these people have nothing better to do with their time?
Actually, no. They have attended only the finest Saudi funded madrassas and can only recite the Koran by heart. Their value to society is to act as CO2 intensive recording devices. They are an environmental threat and should be replaced by IPods. I suggest a B-2 assisted recall program.
Pope Benedict XVI on Tuesday appealed for mutual respect for religious belief as he mourned an Italian nun slain in Somalia in an attack some have speculated was linked to Muslim anger at his recent remarks about Islam and violence. "In reaffirming the firm denunciation for every form of violence, his holiness hopes that the blood spilled by such a faithful disciple of the Gospel becomes the seed of hope to construct authentic brotherhood among peoples in the mutual respect for the religious convictions of each other," read a papal condolence telegram released by the Vatican.
The 65-year-old nun, who taught and worked at a pediatrics hospital in Mogadishu, was slain Sunday. There was no claim of responsibility, but many speculated the shooting was linked to Muslim anger toward Benedict.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 00:00 ||
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Alleged terror leader Abu Bakar Bashir said TV shows featuring scantily clad women were more harmful than the 2002 Bali nightclub bombings that killed 202 people, the state news agency reported.
The remarks were likely to anger Australia, which lost 88 citizens in the attacks on two crowded nightclubs.
Bashir, recently released from jail after serving 26-months for conspiracy in the bombings, said images of naked or semi-naked woman on television were sinful and chipped away at the moral fibre of Muslim believers. Get them all panting, hot and sweaty.
So, if I am asked which is more dangerous, naked women or the Bali bombs, then my reply is of course those women in skimpy clothes, Antara quoted him as saying at a public rally calling for the imposition of Islamic law in Indonesia.
Bashir, who denies any terrorist activities, did not elaborate.
The United States and other Western governments have publicly accused the Muslim cleric of being a key leader in Jemaah Islamiyah, the regional terror group blamed for the Bali bombings and other deadly attacks in Indonesia.
Bashir, 69, has travelled across the predominantly Muslim nation since his release from jail preaching in favour of Islamic law and against the secular government.
#1
Just when you think this maggot bastard can't possibly outdo himself for insanely vacuous stupidity, he goes and spews yet another gobbet of his patently ludicrous moral equivalency. While Helen's face may have launched a thousand ships, this scabrous cretin's smirking visage needs to launch a thousand Hellfires. Our wetwork campaign should begin with this turd.
#2
So lets broadcast all the Pr0n channels unencrypted to the Pr0n magnets in Indonesia with direct Sat transmitters beaming down at their normal TV frequencies 24/7!
#9
Thanks DMFD, now I won't be able to sleep tonight due to nightmares over this image
.....or ever again!
Posted by: Mullah Richard ||
09/20/2006 21:09 Comments ||
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#10
She is such a boob(s)
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/20/2006 21:53 Comments ||
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#11
Now, now, criticize the beliefs, lies and rants, NOT the boobs - BAKAR obviously never saw the leggy sexy Burqua babes on FREEREPUBLIC.com or various Mil forums.
Long piece in Forbes, so here's the most important part:
Striking when Thaksin was in New York at the U.N. General Assembly, army commander Gen. Sondhi Boonyaratkalin sent tanks and troops into the drizzly, nighttime streets of Bangkok. The military ringed Thaksin's offices, seized control of television stations and declared a provisional authority loyal to the king.
In his first public appearance since seizing power, Sondhi Wednesday asked for the public's support and declared the coup was necessary to end serious conflicts within Thai society that Thaksin had created.
Sondhi, who is known to be close to Thailand's revered constitutional monarch, will serve as acting prime minister, army spokesman Col. Akarat Chitroj said. Sondhi, well-regarded within the military, is a Muslim in this Buddhist-dominated nation.
Sondhi, 59, was selected last year to head the army partly because it was felt he could better deal with the Muslim insurgency in southern Thailand, where 1,700 people have been killed since 2004. Recently, Sondhi urged negotiations with the separatists in contrast to Thaksin's hard-fisted approach. Many analysts have said that with Thaksin in power, peace in the south was unlikely.
The rest of the article has reaction blurbs, quotes and analysis.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/20/2006 00:32 ||
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If achieving "peace in the south" requires appeasing the Muslim insurgency, everybody involved will be in for a huge surprise about what's to come. Well, maybe except for Prime Minister Sondhi.
#3
Toxin's problem in the south has hardly been that he's been too "hard-fisted." It's Forbes, but it's an AP story. I'd wait for verification from Debka.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 6:58 Comments ||
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#4
and a double-order of salt-lick!
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/20/2006 7:18 Comments ||
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#5
If Muslims are given autonomy, then they will then demand independence if not unity with Malaysia. Negotiation with terrorists is another word for surrender.
If I were ever capable of such subtlety as this, y'all would be pulling the knife from between your ribs, cleaning it and handing it back to me with thanks for my kindness.
#10
Displace the Muslims into Malaysia. The international stink will be muted because (a) if the white folks aren't involved nobody cares for long (b) There are bigger things going on around the world.
That's what I would do. At least to any villages that are uncontrollable. The Soviets moved the entire population of Chechnya at one time. Solved the Chechnyan problem until someone got the bright idea to let them return to their homeland.
Israeli forces will leave southern Lebanon by Friday in time for the Jewish New Year, army chief Dan Halutz told parliament's foreign affairs and defence committee yesterday. Halutz said "he hoped the last troops will leave southern Lebanon by the eve of Rosh Hashana (which takes place on Saturday)," a member of the panel said. Israeli forces have remained in Lebanon after the month-long war against Hezbollah ended on August 14, and have been gradually withdrawing as international forces and the Lebanese army assume control.
Halutz was also quoted as saying that officers planned to meet UN representatives in southern Lebanon on Tuesday to discuss the handover of the remaining territory where Israeli troops are still based. According to the army, troops have so far pulled back from over 80 percent of the territory it once controlled, and are currently concentrated in a narrow strip along Lebanon's border with Israel.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 00:00 ||
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Halutz: IDF won't be out by New Year
The IDF will not fully withdraw from southern Lebanon before Rosh Hashana, IDF Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz said Wednesday, contradicting a statement he made Tuesday to the opposite effect.
"We hoped that the withdrawal would happen by Friday, but there are dialogues that need to continue with the Lebanese army and UNIFIL until after the holiday," Halutz told reporters during a toast for the New Year, which comes in on Friday night.
On Tuesday, Halutz told the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee that there would be no IDF troops left in Lebanon by this Friday, depending on an agreement that Lebanon, the IDF and the United Nations were likely to reach.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad skipped US President George W. Bush's speech to the UN General Assembly on Tuesday. Ahmadinejad was scheduled to speak to the world body Tuesday evening, but he was not sitting in Iran's seat in the General Assembly chamber when Bush spoke.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/20/2006 00:00 ||
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If I'm not mistaken, the entire US delegation skipped Ahmadinnerjacket's screech.
#2
I listened to the translation of part of his speech. It sounded a lot like "Peace, love, charity, happiness, the time of our repression is over, we've about got the bomb, we need a permanent seat on the counsel with veto power, the 12th Imam is coming, and everybody is going to be muslim in a little while."
Of course he got a round of applause at the end of his speech. Those who clapped didn't know what he just said or were members of the Iranian delegation, I'm sure. I hope they figure it out soon. These people are so stupid they don't belong where they are, so they probably won't.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
President George W. Bush on Tuesday appealed directly to Muslims to assure them that the United States is not waging war with Islam as he laid out a vision for peace in the Middle East before skeptical world leaders at the United Nations. 
Kashmir's largest militant group dismissed as meaningless an agreement to resume peace talks by the leaders of India and Pakistan, a news agency reported on Tuesday. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President General Pervez Musharraf at the weekend agreed to restart peace talks that have been stalled since July, when bombings in Mumbai killed more than 200 people. In a statement on Tuesday to a local news agency, Current News Service, the militant group Hizb-ul-Mujahideen said the message of the two leaders carried "nothing new for people of Kashmir". "The declaration uses old and traditional language and is meaningless for the people of Kashmir. Those who are clapping at the declaration are misleading the people," the news agency quoted Hezb spokesman Junaid-ul-Islam as saying. "The only declaration acceptable to the people of Kashmir is one which gives a timeframe for resolving the Kashmir issue," Islam said.
The chief judge in Saddam Hussein's genocide trial was replaced Tuesday, the government spokesman's office said. Abdullah al-Amiri was replaced by Mohammed al-Uraibiy, who was his deputy in the trial, said a court source. Al-Uraibiy is a Shi'ite, the source said. There was no reason given on why al-Amiri was replaced but the request came from the Iraqi High Tribunal, according to a government source. The request was made in a letter to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, who approved it, he said. 
Internal strife within Hamas - the internationally outlawed terrorist organization that took over the Palestinian Authority following elections earlier this year - has never been more intense. Hamas leaders in Gaza have all but agreed to form a unity government with Fatah, its older and externally more moderate sister, but the Damascus-based leadership doesn't like the idea at all. 
Another obstacle placed before a unity government has come from the other side of the political spectrum - U.S. President George Bush. Bush announced Monday night that he would not recognize the PA government if its guidelines do not include the Quartet's three conditions: recognition of Israel, fulfillment of previous agreements with Israel, and an end to terrorism. The past few day have seen the circulation of several rough copies of an agreement under consideration by Haniye and Abbas. Jerusalem intelligence reveals that the most accurate version, the one agreed upon most recently, was never shown to the U.S. by the PA negotiators. Instead, the Arabs showed the Americans a copy stating that the government will accept the Saudi peace plan of 2002 and the Prisoners' Document, but with the following critical caveat deleted: "As long as this does not clash with Palestinian interests." 
Huberman reports in the name of Jerusalem sources that the inclusion of this sentence essentially voids any Hamas consent to enter a diplomatic process with Israel. PA sources say the negotiations have not yet been finalized, and that there is therefore no final rough copy of the agreement. Hamed said, "There is a strong desire of the various Palestinian factions and groups to reach a national unity government... Hamas will not renege on any declaration it has made before now." He acknowledged that there were some issues not yet finalized in the unity negotiations.
Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas will tell US President George W. Bush on Wednesday that the proposed Palestinian unity government will recognize Israel's right to exist and previous agreements between the PLO and Israel," PA officials told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday. Thousands of Hamas supporters took to the streets of Gaza City on Tuesday calling on Abbas not to succumb to American "dictates" regarding the unity government and to work toward resolving the financial crisis in the PA. 
Leaders of various religious parties have demanded the immediate removal of Pope Benedict XVI and announced they will launch a countrywide protest campaign to condemn the pope's remarks against Jihad and Prophet Muhammad (
Pope Benedict XVI on Tuesday appealed for mutual respect for religious belief as he mourned an Italian nun slain in Somalia in an attack some have speculated was linked to Muslim anger at his recent remarks about Islam and violence. "In reaffirming the firm denunciation for every form of violence, his holiness hopes that the blood spilled by such a faithful disciple of the Gospel becomes the seed of hope to construct authentic brotherhood among peoples in the mutual respect for the religious convictions of each other," read a papal condolence telegram released by the Vatican. 
Israeli forces will leave southern Lebanon by Friday in time for the Jewish New Year, army chief Dan Halutz told parliament's foreign affairs and defence committee yesterday. Halutz said "he hoped the last troops will leave southern Lebanon by the eve of Rosh Hashana (which takes place on Saturday)," a member of the panel said. Israeli forces have remained in Lebanon after the month-long war against Hezbollah ended on August 14, and have been gradually withdrawing as international forces and the Lebanese army assume control. 
