#3
It probably just didn't occur to anyone in Philadelphia that Kurds speak a different language. After all, in Philadelphia the Italians speak American, too.
The Libyan convicted of the 1988 Lockerbie bombing in which 270 people died could be freed after new doubts emerged about an expert witness who gave crucial evidence at his trial. Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi was jailed for life in 2001 at a special Scottish court in Holland after Allen Feraday told judges that a fragment of a circuit board found in the wreckage was part of the bomb's detonator.
Now, however, papers have been sent to the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission, which was already examining documents from Megrahi's trial, after a conviction in a third case involving Mr Feraday's expert evidence was quashed. The commission will decide if an appeal should be heard.
With Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, now no longer a pariah in the eyes of Britain after he renounced weapons of mass destruction, the political climate for a successful appeal is relatively benign. Lord Woolf, the Lord Chief Justice, ruled that the conviction of Hassan Assali, 53, another Libyan, on terrorist conspiracy charges was unsafe. Mr Assali's factory was raided in 1984 and timing devices were seized.
Mr Feraday, the prosecution's only expert witness, said there was no lawful purpose for the devices, which Mr Assali claimed were for domestic use. Mr Assali served six and a half years of a nine-year sentence. Mr Feraday, the former head of the forensic explosives laboratory at the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency in Kent, now retired after 42 years' distinguished work, was an expert witness in two other cases in which the convictions were later quashed.
A Crown Office spokesman, however, said the case did not depend solely on the evidence of Mr Feraday and that a number of other expert witnesses had also testified. Mr Feraday said: "I'm taking legal advice and shan't be talking to anybody."
Posted by: ed ||
08/21/2005 14:40 ||
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This is really odd. What precipitated this sudden change of heart?
A Muslim accused of anti-Semitism is to be appointed to a government role in charge of rooting out extremism in the wake of last month's suicide bombings in London. Inayat Bunglawala, 36, the media secretary for the Muslim Council of Britain, is understood to have been selected as one of seven "conveners" for a Home Office task force with responsibilities for tackling extremism among young Muslims, despite a history of anti-Semitic statements.
Mr Bunglawala's past comments include the allegation that the British media was "Zionist-controlled". Writing for a Muslim youth magazine in 1992, he said: "The chairman of Carlton Communications is Michael Green of the Tribe of Judah. He has joined an elite club whose members include fellow Jews Michael Grade [then the chief executive of Channel 4 and now BBC chairman] and Alan Yentob [BBC2 controller and friend of Salman Rushdie]." "The three are reported to be "close friends⊠so that's what they mean by a 'free media'."
In January 1993, Mr Bunglawala wrote a letter to Private Eye, the satirical magazine, in which he called the blind Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman "courageous" - just a month before he bombed the World Trade Center in New York. After Rahman's arrest in July that year, Mr Bunglawala said that it was probably only because of his "calling on Muslims to fulfil their duty to Allah and to fight against oppression and oppressors everywhere". Five months before 9/11, Mr Bunglawala also circulated writings of Osama bin Laden, who he regarded as a "freedom fighter", to hundreds of Muslims in Britain.
The Muslim Council of Britain was one of several organisations invited to a meeting held by Tony Blair after the London bombings. The Prime Minister said afterwards that he would set up a task force to tackle extremism "head on". Mr Bunglawala's job at the Home Office will be to help to organise a programme to tackle radicalism and extremism among young Muslims.
News of his appointment comes 10 days after he wrote to Mark Thompson, the BBC Director General, accusing a forthcoming BBC1 Panorama programme of possessing "a pro-Israeli agenda". Although the programme had yet to be completed, Mr Bunglawala said that the BBC had allowed itself to be used by "highly placed supporters of Israel in the British media to make capital out of the July 7 atrocities in London". The programme, A Question of Leadership, which will air tonight at 10.20pm, seeks to discover whether British Muslim leaders can tackle the extremism in their midst. Obviously not.
It features an interview with Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, who says members of the Palestinian terrorist organisation Hamas are "freedom fighters". Sir Iqbal compares Hamas suicide bombers to Nelson Mandela and Mahatma Ghandi. He says: "Those who fight oppression, those who fight occupation, cannot be termed as terrorist, they are freedom fighters, in the same way as Nelson Mandela fought against their apartheid, in the same way as Gandhi and many others fought the British rule in India."
Sir Iqbal also refers to the founder and spiritual leader of Hamas, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, as "the renowned Islamic scholar". Sir Iqbal attended a memorial service at the Central Mosque in London for Sheikh Yassin after he was killed in an Israeli air strike last year. The programme also shows a leading Saudi cleric, an honoured guest of the East London Mosque, claiming that Islam is "the best testament to how different communities can live together", while back in his pulpit in Mecca, he has referred to Jews as "monkeys and pigs" and also as "the rats of the world". Christians are "cross worshippers" and Hindus "idol worshippers".
Mr Bunglawala said: "Those comments were made some 12 or 13 years ago. All of us may hold opinions which are objectionable, but they change over time. I certainly would not defend those comments today." No. Some of these calls to murder and treason were made as recently as this year.
The Home Office refused to confirm or deny the appointment.
Posted by: ed ||
08/21/2005 14:26 ||
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#1
The fox in charge of the hen house. Dump this loser...should have been deported.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/21/2005 15:14 Comments ||
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#2
"Sir?" fucking Iqbal? I thought knights were from the Round Table. Whomsoever bestowed this upon him
will answer for treason.
BTW, MCB answer to tonight's programme, excerpt.
"Furthermore, Ware's presumption that we live in a truly secular society/world is quite flawed. Take George Bush. His conception of Christianity very obviously informs his political beliefs and actions. But it's not just the United States. At least three members of the UK Cabinet are committed Christians. There are members of the Christian clergy in the House of Lords and Britain has an established Church. Christian values and teachings have been a major influence behind the Welfare state, the NHS, etc.
The Pope often meets with world leaders and comments on world affairs. The Archbishop of Canterbury regularly comments on social, economic and major political events.
Ruth Kelly, the cabinet minister, has made no bones of her commitment to Opus Dei, remarking "I am a practicing Catholic. Clearly I have strong personal principles. I would have to abide by them in my political career if they are strong personal principles." (The Guardian, 17th December 2004).
So it is strange that when Muslims seek to be guided in their social and political beliefs and actions by their faith, Ware describes this as âplaying politics with religion in a secular countryâ. To disconnect morality from public life would be to make faith largely irrelevant.
A Few Selected Voices of Discontent
The Muslim Council of Britain is this countryâs largest umbrella body for British Muslims. It's over 400 affiliates represent the diversity of the Muslim community, including schools of thought (Sunni and Shi'a) and ethnic and national groups - from the Kosova Islamic Centre to the Council of Nigerian Muslim Organisations. However, the MCB makes no claim to represent all of the UKâs 1.6 million Muslims and we recognise that there are other senior Muslim individuals and organisations that are not currently affiliated to us and we seek closer cooperation with them, even if they do not wish to formally affiliate with us".
#4
Find out who proposed him, seconded it and all along the ladder - PURGE
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 18:14 Comments ||
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#5
The BBC program did a pretty good job on Sacranie, pointing out that he refused to attend the Holocaust memorial, but was happy to attend a memorial for Yassin, the leader of a terrorist group whose only objective is to destroy Israel. Sacranie (and various other taqqiyah artists) came across very badly indeed, and this program will hopefully have been very useful in alerting the British people to the enemy in our midst.
#1
You'd think somebody who made brigadier would know when to keep his pants zipped. Early retirement for this bozo.
Posted by: Jonathan ||
08/21/2005 20:30 Comments ||
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#2
No no, no early retirement, they should bust him down to as low as they can and put him incharge of a busy door someplace where his fellow officers can point and laugh at him as an object lesson.
For 50 years under Soviet rule, nearly everything about the Odessa Antiplague Station was a state secret, down to the names of the deadly microbes its white-coated workers collected and stored in a pair of ordinary freezers.
Cloistered in a squat, gray building at the tip of a rusting shipping dock, the station's biologists churned out reports on grave illnesses that were mentioned only in code. Anthrax was Disease No. 123, and plague, which killed thousands here in the 19th century, was No. 127. Each year, researchers added new specimens to their frozen collection and shared test results with sister institutes along a network controlled by Moscow.
Today, the Soviets are gone but the lab is still here, in this Black Sea port notorious for its criminal gangs and black markets. It is just one of more than 80 similar "antiplague" labs scattered across the former Soviet Union, from the turbulent Caucasus to Central Asian republics that share borders with Iran and Afghanistan. Each is a repository of knowledge, equipment and lethal pathogens that weapons experts have said could be useful to bioterrorists.
After decades of operating in the shadows, the labs are beginning to shed light on another secret: How the Soviet military co-opted obscure civilian institutes into a powerful biological warfare program that built weapons for spreading plague and anthrax spores. As they ramped up preparations for germ warfare in the 1970s and 1980s, Soviet generals mined the labs for raw materials, including highly lethal strains of viruses and bacteria that were intended for use in bombs and missiles.
The facilities' hidden role is described in a draft report of a major investigation by scholars from the Center for Nonproliferation Studies at the Monterey Institute of International Studies. The main conclusions of the report, which was provided to The Washington Post, were echoed in interviews with current and former U.S. officials familiar with the labs. Most scientists who worked in antiplague stations in Soviet times knew nothing of their contributions to the weapons program, the report says.
The labs today are seeking to fill a critical role in preventing epidemics in regions where medical services and sanitation have deteriorated since Soviet times. But an equally pressing challenge is security: How to prevent the germ collections and biological know-how from being sold or stolen.
"They often have culture collections of pathogens that lack biosecurity, and they employ people who are well-versed in investigating and handling deadly pathogens," said Raymond A. Zilinskas, a bioweapons expert and coauthor of the draft report on the antiplague system. "Some are located at sites accessible to terrorist groups and criminal groups. The potential is that terrorists and criminals would have little problem acquiring the resources that reside in these facilities."
Managers of the old antiplague stations are aware of their vulnerabilities but lack the most basic resources for dealing with them, according to the Monterey authors and U.S. officials. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, budgets at the institutes have fallen so steeply that even the simplest security upgrades are out of reach. One facility in a Central Asian capital could not even afford a telephone and had no way of contacting police in the event of a break-in. At least two antiplague centers outside Russia have acknowledged burglaries or break-ins within the past three years, though there are no confirmed reports of stolen pathogens or missing lab equipment, Monterey officials said.
The lack of modern biosafety equipment is also raising concern among U.S. officials about the potential for an accidental release of deadly bacteria and viruses. In Odessa, where 44 scientists and about 140 support staff carry out research in the I.I. Mechnikov Antiplague Scientific and Research Institute, scientists wearing cotton smocks and surgical masks work with lethal microbes that in the West would be locked away in high-containment laboratories and handled only by scientists in spacesuits.
The lab's scientists said their training in handling dangerous materials allowed them to work safely with pathogens without Western-style safety equipment -- which they viewed as unnecessary and which in any case they cannot afford.
"Many of the institutes are located in downtown areas, and some work with pathogens with windows wide open," said Sonia Ben Ouagrham, who coauthored the Monterey study with Zilinskas and Alexander Melikishvili.
The obscurity of the antiplague stations is hampering their ability to fix the problems, the researchers said. The institutes were not officially part of the Soviet bioweapons complex, so they have been deemed ineligible for the tens of millions of dollars in aid given each year by U.S. and Western governments to keep former weapons scientists from selling their expertise.
Western governments are just beginning to look for ways to help the institutes, and not only because of the bioterrorism threat. In a two-year study of Russia's biotech industry, a panel of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences recently urged former Soviet republics to modernize the antiplague labs and integrate them with other global networks that seek to prevent outbreaks of diseases from becoming pandemics. "The Russian Anti-plague System, regardless of any involvement it might have had in the former offensive program, serves an important public health need," said David Franz, panel chairman and director of Kansas State University's National Agricultural Biosecurity Center.
Any weakening of the antiplague network has consequences for the control of infectious diseases throughout the world, and especially in Europe, said Monterey's Zilinskas.
"These institutes have served to prevent diseases such as plague, tularemia and Crimean-Congo fever from spilling over," he said, referring to a flulike fever sometimes referred to as "rabbit flu" and a hemorrhagic viral fever. "Some Europeans are unaware of this biological threat on their southeastern flank. Others are aware, but so far, are choosing not to be engaged."
Growth of a Secret Soviet System
The name "antiplague" reflects a grim reality of the Czarist and early Soviet periods, when the first antiplague stations were created: Plague, or black death, was a frequent visitor to Russia and neighboring countries well into the 20th Century.
Plague is caused by a bacterium, Yersinia pestis , and it is most commonly transmitted to people by animal or insect carriers, such as rats. It is the same illness that killed an estimated one-third of the population of Europe in the 14th century. Today, plague is easily treated with antibiotics, although a rare form of the disease -- pneumonic plague, caused by breathing the bacteria into the lungs -- is highly lethal and is considered a weapon of choice for germ warfare or bioterrorism.
In Odessa alone, a sea port of just over 1 million people, tourists can visit eight different cemeteries for plague victims, including Plague Mountain, a grassy mound that served as a mass grave for victims of an 1812 outbreak that killed more than 2,600 people.
The first antiplague stations were established to help contain such outbreaks. A dozen of them already were operating by the end of the reign of the last czar. The start of the Soviet era in 1917 brought many new institutes, new priorities and an expanded list of diseases, including tularemia, cholera and anthrax.
The Monterey Institute's report studies how the institutes evolved under Soviet leadership , and draws on scores of interviews and visits to more than 40 antiplague institutes and field stations. Some details emerged previously from the writings and testimony of Soviet weapons scientists.
By all accounts, the antiplague network grew dramatically under the Soviets, both in size and sophistication. By the end of the Soviet period it boasted 14,000 employees and 88 permanent facilities, including six major antiplague institutes, 26 regional stations and 53 smaller field stations.
Odessa's facility was a regional station, first opened in 1937 to battle recurring outbreaks of plague linked to infected rats that were arriving by ship. The original building on a municipal dock was later exchanged for a walled compound of three-story buildings painted pale blue. Inside, scientists dissected infected rats and birds in separate virology and bacteriology labs, using equipment that would be considered outmoded in many U.S. high schools today. For years, until the lab purchased autoclaves for cremating contaminated materials, the bodies of the diseased animals were simply buried in the lab's courtyard.
Beginning in the 1950s, the Soviet military began to exert influence over research priorities in the facilities. At first, the Monterey report says, antiplague institutes were asked to help bolster the nation's defenses against a possible foreign biological attack. The assignment was code-named "Problem Five," and it required scientists to expand on their already-proven ability to respond to a sudden outbreak. Researchers refined techniques for detecting and identifying pathogens, established rapid-response teams and aided the investigation of new drugs.
A growing international consensus against biological warfare prompted the Soviets to shift to a new direction. In 1969, President Richard M. Nixon unilaterally halted U.S. production of biological weapons. Three years later, the Soviet Union joined the United States and other nations in signing the Biological Weapons Convention, outlawing biological weapons. Within the next two years, the Soviets secretly began to build a massive offensive weapons program. Much of it was hidden inside a sprawling civilian-run enterprise called Biopreparat, which put tens of thousands of scientists to work on bioweapons projects disguised as pharmaceutical research.
The ruse worked. Western governments did not become fully aware of true of purpose of Biopreparat until a leading Soviet scientist, Vladimir Pasechnik, defected to Britain in 1989.
A Steady Supply of Virulent Strains
When Soviet generals began their expanded buildup of bioweapons in the 1970s, they looked to the antiplague network for help, the Monterey authors said. The largest antiplague institutions were enlisted into a new program, code-named "Problem F," or simply "Ferment."
According to Zilinskas and others, the antiplague institutes were a goldmine for the military because they provided "ready-to-use information, biomaterial and expertise."
Precise details of the antiplague institutes' work remain unclear. The Russian government still refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of the Soviet Union's offensive weapons program. Russia also has outlawed any disclosures of classified information from the pre-1992, Soviet era. But scientists now living outside Russia have brought many key facts to light, the researchers said. It is now known, for example, that key antiplague institutes during this period came under the command of Soviet military officers, some of whom once worked at military biological facilities.
It is also clear, they said, that Soviet bioweapon engineers relied on the antiplague institutes for basic research and identification of pathogen strains that were exceptionally lethal.
"There was a secret law that enjoined all antiplague institutes to send the government any kind of virulent strain that might be used for defensive purposes," said Zilinskas. Soviet bioweapons that most likely originated in antiplague centers include bacterial strains that cause plague, anthrax and tularemia, the report concludes. In addition, it is believed that one of the antiplague facilities, in Volgograd, helped Biopreparat scientists develop weaponized versions of the bacteria that cause glanders and melioidosis, two livestock diseases that also attack humans. "This collaboration probably went beyond the mere supplying of strains," the authors write. "It included efforts to weaponize wild bacterial strains."
The bioweapons program was so secret that many researchers didn't know about it. Lev Mogilevsky, deputy director of the Odessa research facility and a 36-year veteran of the antiplague system, said he believed it was impossible that his institute could have contributed to the creation of offensive biological weapons. But he did remember working on joint projects with military medical units in the 1970s and '80s, during which the exchange of information was decidedly one-way.
"We would hold meetings to discuss Problem Five, and there would be many institutes participating, including military ones," Mogilevsky recalled. "Our contributions would be open, but the military's never were. They revealed nothing."
Under-funded, Under-staffed and Unsecured
Today, the Odessa antiplague station and others like it throughout the former Soviet Union face a new generation of difficulties. Even the simple task of gathering field specimens can be a challenge, because it requires travel. That means using the institute's aging van, which is often in need of repairs, and purchasing gasoline, which the lab cannot afford.
To grow bacteria for testing, the scientists need a sterile nutrient broth, or growth medium, common to biological labs all over the world. But again, the Odessa lab has no money for such supplies. Workers improvise by collecting meat scraps, boiling them down in the lab and skimming off the fat.
The list goes on: Glassware. Lab chemicals. Fax paper. Microscope parts. Testing kits.
"Our budget has been very much decreased. The equipment that we have is old," said Mogilevsky. "Basically what we have is enough to sustain the lab at a very low level of activity."
Other shortages, unrelated to lab work, trouble the institute's deputy director. He worries about broken alarm sensors, ancient locks that need replacing and walls that should be built higher and stronger to keep out intruders. He wonders whether a single guard is enough, and if not, how he could possibly afford another.
When the Monterey Institute and the Nuclear Threat Initiative, a nonprofit group, brought scores of antiplague scientists together two years ago for their first post-Soviet-era meeting, complaints about inadequate supplies and plummeting budgets were a common refrain. In fact, Odessa's plight was nowhere near the worst.
"All were in poor shape," said Zilinskas, who has helped launch a program that brings antiplague scientists to the United States for training. "Some of the facilities received literally no money from their governments, at all."
Many of the centers in the ex-Soviet republics continue to maintain high professional standards, the researchers said, thanks in part to a core of older scientists who were trained under the Soviet system in classic laboratory techniques. But today, training is harder to come by, even for the few young scientists who are willing to accept starting salaries of less than $25 a week.
Over time, continued cost-cutting inevitably will undermine the labs' ability to function at all. And that, the researchers said, has a cost of its own.
"If the system shuts down because of lack of equipment and funding, there's a risk of an epizootic outbreak among animals that becomes an outbreak among humans," said Monterey's Ouagrham. "And humans travel."
The Chinese government hired Patton Boggs LLP, the biggest Washington lobby firm, to give it advice about the U.S. Congress, according to a federal disclosure.
The Chinese embassy in Washington will pay Patton Boggs $22,000 a month, according to contract papers filed with the U.S. Justice Department. China hired Patton Boggs in July, before congressional pressure helped scuttle an $18.5 billion bid by Beijing-based Cnooc Ltd., an oil producer, to buy Unocal Corp. of El Segundo, California.
Mark Cowan, Robert Horn and Timothy Chorba, a former U.S. ambassador to Singapore, will lead Patton Boggs' work with the embassy. Cowan is a former Central Intelligence Agency officer and Horn is chairman of the Republican National Lawyers Association, according to their biographies on the Patton Boggs Web site.
The filing didn't indicate whether Patton Boggs would lobby Congress on behalf of the Chinese government. U.S. groups that work for foreign governments must register with the Justice Department as foreign agents.
"We look forward to working with the embassy to achieve successful results," Cowan wrote in a contract letter to Su Ge, minister counselor at the Chinese Embassy in a July 11 letter.
Chu Maoming, a spokesman for the Chinese embassy in Washington, was traveling and not immediately available to comment. Brian Hale, a spokesman for Patton Boggs, said the company had been hired to provide "counsel" for the embassy. "Espionage" and "bribery" will be handled by the same company, through a "Chinese wall", to protect against conflict of interest.
A U.S. satellite has detected signs that North Korea recently restarted a reactor that will could be used for the extraction of material to make nuclear warheads, a Japanese newspaper said on Sunday.
The surveillance satellite detected steam coming out of a boiler connected to a building housing the five-megawatt reactor at Yongbyon, Asahi Shimbun said, quoting unnamed sources related to six-way nuclear crisis talks, including a senior U.S. official. "We wuz just cooking up a big batch of kimchee. Honest!"
The sources said the steam had been detected before the resumption of the six-way talks in late July that aimed to entice the North to give up its nuclear weapons and bomb-making programmes in exchange for economic aid and security guarantees. "It is hard to think that the boiler would operate by itself while the nuclear reactor is stopped. It can only be concluded that North Korea has put in new nuclear fuel rods and has restarted the nuclear reactor," Asahi quoted a U.S. government source as saying.
South Korea said in April the reactor's operations had been suspended and the following month, North Korea said it had completed extracting 8,000 fuel rods from the 5 megawatt reactor. Rods from old-style graphite reactors can be processed to extract plutonium, a key component in nuclear bombs. Restarting the reactor could mean the North aims to extract more plutonium from the new rods.
North Korea has also spread gravel over a road near a separate unfinished 50-megawatt reactor at Yongbyon. Construction was halted in the 1990s under a previous, and now defunct, nuclear agreement with the United States. Repairing the road could be a sign the North is preparing to resume building work, Asahi said. "North Korea has been suggesting that it is ready to scrap such nuclear reactors, but it is steadily expanding the scope of its nuclear development behind the scenes," the senior U.S. official said.
#4
"Why do they need a boiler to fire up a nuclear reactor?"
Well, when you fire up any major "Engine" you usualy have a standby power souece both to provide the syart-up power, and as a safety measure in case the mains fail at a disastrous point when you REALLY need to run pumps, fans, etc. (Think three mile island when the water pumps were not running)
I would suspect that the "Boiler" mentioned provides just such standby power.
I was Navy, we used shore power whenever we first started the ship's boilers, and had standby generators in case of power failure or no shore power available.
Takes Juice to run fuel and water pumps, burners, flue fans, etc.
After startup we could run our own turbine-generators to supply all the power we needed, and then disconnected from shore, and shut down the standby gensets (Diesel in our case)
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
08/21/2005 21:46 Comments ||
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#5
Memo to self
"Spellcheck dammit"
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
08/21/2005 21:48 Comments ||
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#6
Maybe Kimmie noticed that China's locale for it and Russia's MILEX "Peace Mission 2005" is closer to South Korea than North Korea - you know, China working to stop the North.
ABOARD RSS ENDURANCE, South China Sea - It was a scenario straight out of a Tom Clancy spy novel. The United States passed on intelligence to its allies that dangerous chemicals could be shipped from a Northeast Asian country to a port in the Arabian Gulf. Japan sent out information that some ships fitting the profile of the suspect vessels had been monitored heading for their destination via the South China Sea and the Strait of Malacca.
After a tense 36-hour search spanning 600 nautical miles and aided by satellite technology, elite Singapore divers rappelled down a helicopter and stormed a merchant vessel singled out from thousands plying the route. Six speedboats soon pulled alongside and a multinational force including chemical and biological warfare experts and customs officers boarded the vessel, which was then escorted under heavy guard to Singapore.
The exercise, demonstrated to journalists and foreign military observers watching from aboard the RSS Endurance, a Singapore Navy landing ship-tank, showed how multinational forces would foil a terrorist attempt to smuggle nerve gas components from a âNortheast Asianâ country to a port in the Middle East.
A quick review of my world atlas for "Northeast Asian" countries ... Russia ... China ...
Participants said holding the drills in Southeast Asia for the first time was important because the region has two of the worldâs busiest shipping lanes â the Singapore and Malacca Straits.
... Japan ... South Korea ...
By coincidence, the drill took place after six-nation talks to dismantle North Koreaâs nuclear weapons programme ended in Beijing last month with no solution in sight. The Stalinist regime in Pyongyang has long been seen as a potential rogue weapons supplier to shadowy regimes and organisations.
oh ... North Korea!
The exercise in the South China Sea about 60 kilometres (100 miles) off Singapore was part of the US-led Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI) aimed at preventing terrorists from exploiting free trade to export lethal cargo. Launched in 2003, the PSI allows for the seizure of missiles and other potential components of WMD while being transferred at sea or in the air. While Washington says 60 countries have expressed support for the PSI, key legal questions remain over the interdiction of suspect ships in international waters or in seas belonging to a country that does not back the initiative.
Supporters of the initiative say exercises such as the one held off Singapore are crucial to hone multinational coordination while legal issues are ironed out. âLet me say that the gathering of assets ... is really a demonstration of the collective will of the PSI nations in coming together to tackle this urgent threat of WMD proliferation from North Korea,â said Singapore Navy fleet commander Rear Admiral Chew Men Leong. âWe hope that Exercise Deep Sabre can help contribute to enhance the ability of PSI nations to come together, work together in a cooperative and coordinated manner to tackle the issue of WMD material proliferation from North Korea,â he told reporters aboard the RSS Endurance.
Singapore Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean said the same linkages that promote free trade also âcreated more conduits and opportunities for proliferators (of weapons) from North Korea to do their nasty businessâ.
Commander Richard Powell of the British Royal Navy said Britain would host the next PSI exercises, part of which will be carried out in the Indian Ocean. Holding the exercises in different regions is partly aimed at attracting other countries to support the initiative, Powell said. âItâs not a closed shop,â he told reporters after watching the exercise. âWe want more countries to sign up to the principles and become involved in this activity.â
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/21/2005 00:00 ||
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PSI, brought to you by Bulldog Bolton
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/21/2005 2:15 Comments ||
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#2
key legal questions remain over the interdiction of suspect ships in international waters or in seas belonging to a country that does not back the initiative.
FWIW, Malaysia has agreed in principle to sign the PSI.
GROWING anti-American attitudes have been generated in part by left-wing teachers in Australian schools, according to Treasurer Peter Costello.
Mr Costello last night delivered a speech to the Australian-American Leadership Dialogue dinner, warning of the dangers of anti-Americanism taking hold in Australia.
He says allowing anti-American sentiment to fester could incite terrorism. "There's no doubt in my mind that anti-Americanism can easily morph into anti-Westernism, particularly we've seen that with terrorists," Mr Costello said today. "They don't really draw distinctions between Americans or Britons or Australians, they just like to hit anybody who they consider to be a part of the West.
"And that's why I think we've all got an interest in working to explain the aims and objectives of our policies."
Mr Costello said he was aware of anti-American attitudes among students while he was at university in the 1970s. Some of these students had become teachers carrying with them "ideological baggage" which he said was now filtering through to their students in schools. "I think in the schools, if your teacher's carrying that bias it tends to get passed on," he said.
"And I think in the schools, the other side of the story ought to be taught.
The other side of the story, he said, was when Australia was dealing with Japanese attack and when Darwin was being bombed in February of 1942. "The American allies together with Australian troops, began to turn the tide in the Pacific, through the islands and back up to Japan," he said. "This is a side of the story that young people in Australia need to know.
"In our greatest security threat ... our allies came and helped defend Australia with us."
Mr Costello said the US itself should do more to counter growing anti-Americanism, for the benefit of all Western countries including Australia. "I think that's in the general interest of the whole West," he said. "Because anti-Americanism can easily morph into anti-Westernism which picks up and encapsulates Australia and threatens our interests as well."
Anti-American sentiment was generally based on a fear of US power, Mr Costello said.
"And the point I was making last night was that US power is much more likely to come to the aid of Australia and its values than to threaten Australia and its values," he said. "There's no solid reason for Australia to fear the emergence of US power."
"But I also made the point last night, that just as the United States has become the pre-eminent world power, it's still important that it act in concert with other people."
Posted by: Oztralian [AKA] God Save The World ||
08/21/2005 00:24 ||
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The Oregon State Bar board has voted to ban the Oregon National Guard from advertising in the bar magazine because of the military's controversial policy on homosexuals.
In an 11-3 vote Friday in Klamath Falls, the board turned against a recommendation from its advisory committee that would have allowed the Oregon State Bar Bulletin to resume accepting recruitment ads from the Guard...
"I don't believe the board was willing to basically gut its diversity policy to make an exception for the military," said bar president Nena Cook, a Portland attorney. The bar, which licenses and regulates Oregon lawyers, "needs to stand by its principles of fairness and justice for all," Cook said...
"The military does and can discriminate based on sexual orientation," Cook said, "but we are not bound by the laws and rules of the military." She said Friday's vote should not be interpreted as anti-military. "The bar supports our troops and their efforts," Cook said. Well, that just means that we think the Oregon State Bar board is run by cowardly, snivelling, anti-American scum. But that doesn't mean we disapprove of their cowardly, snivelling, anti-Americanism, and all.
#1
needs to stand by its principles of fairness and justice for all as opposed to standing by the men and women who permit you to have principles different from those set by the mullahs or other religious authority.
May the fleas of a thousand mullahs fly up your nose.
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/21/2005 17:09 Comments ||
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#2
I'm always impressed by lawyers who do not understand law.
Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution gives Congress the authority in making military law [its there because of someone name Oliver Cromwell]. Congress exercises its authority through Title X U.S. Code. Subsection of the Code is a portion commonly referred to as the Uniform Code of Military Conduct. Article 125 specifically prohibits sodomy. Article 78, Accessory after the fact requires servicemembers to act upon violations of the UCMJ - erto if you know , you must tell. Its Congress' law, not the military's. Unable to achieve the consent of the govern, that is to control Congress, they hammer the messenger.
Notice how these same organization never get worked up about servicemembers being disciplined or discharged for hetro activities. Its about power not about tolerance.
#3
Another example of how "lawyers" are not interested in justice but only the law and that only when it benefits them. Not to mention they write all the laws and can't wait to pass more to benefit themselves.
âThe first thing we do, letâs kill all the lawyers.â
Shakespeare [Henry VI, Part 2]
The second thing we do, lets kill all the journalist. Since they encourage them to pull this kind of crap and cheer on those who want to destroy western civilization.
#4
No SPOD, True journalists are a vital component of a free and open society - they help keep the government and political parties honest,
However the false journalists we have today are little more then traitors who are pushing the left/communist agenda no matter what to costs to everyone else.
The same can be said of true professors - they provide a vital and honorable role of passing knowledge along to the next generation - as opposed to the false ones like Churchill and most others.
#7
At some point we are going to have to realize that we are in a very real war for our American way of life and beliefs this nation was founded on. I just hope that it wont be to late.
#8
Looks like the Seattle losers have migrated south. "We support you-ya we do -um- until we have to really support you- then well- we just can't because sodomy is a crime in the military and as lawyers we openly practice sodomy- on our clients, the system, each other, and every American we can". But by god we should comfort those poor misguided terrorists in Gitmo and make sure UBL has a comfortable chair when we capture him. Jesus, it's no wonder I have to run five miles a day just to keep my sanity.
Posted by: 49 pan ||
08/21/2005 21:14 Comments ||
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#10
No they don't want to get money from advertisers, they want to raise the law students tuition probably instead, while holding their nose up in the air that they are too good for the National Guard.
Lately I feel the need to take a blood pressure pill before I visit this site anymore.
This guinness is helping tremendously...
SPOD, do we have any good journalists anywhere to choose from though?
Posted by: Jan ||
08/21/2005 22:44 Comments ||
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#1
If a 13-year-old wants to have an abortion, that's her decision and her parents shouldn't get a look-in. If a 21-year-old wants to drop to the broadloom in Bill Clinton's Oval Office, she's a grown woman and free to do what she wants. But, if a 22- or 25- or 37-year-old is serving his country overseas, he's a wee "child" who isn't really old enough to know what he's doing.
#2
Casey Sheehan's service was not the act of a child. A shame you can't say the same about his mom's new friends.
typical Steyn: brilliant
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 14:33 Comments ||
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#3
Well, I hope he's right about her not coming back.
But wait! If she should not go back, what will she tell the press? What will the MSM quote? What will she tell the Camp Casey hangers-on? What will Ben the ice cream guy say? What will Soros think? What will Maureen moan about?
And I haven't even had the time to send any money to the Camp Qualls folks!
Come back, Cindy, COME BACK!
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/21/2005 17:23 Comments ||
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The CIA's former bin Laden desk chief revealed Thursday night that Clinton administration lawyers warned counterterrorism agents that Osama bin Laden had to be kept as comfortable as possible if they captured him during planned raids into Afghanistan.
"The lawyers were more concerned with bin Laden`s safety and his comfort than they were with the officers charged with capturing him," former bin Laden desk chief Michael Scheuer told MSNBC's "Hardball."
"We had to build an ergonomically designed chair to put him in, [for] special comfort in terms of how he was shackled into the chair," Scheuer explained. "They even worried about what kind of tape to gag him with so it wouldn't irritate his beard."
"The lawyers are the bane of the intelligence community," the former CIA man lamented.
Concerns like that, as well as foot-dragging by the White House, resulted in one missed opportunity after another to get the al-Qaida terror mastermind, Scheuer said.
"We had at least eight to 10 chances to capture or kill Osama bin Laden in 1998 and 1999. And the government on all occasions decided that the information was not good enough to act," he claimed.
Although sharply critical of President Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq, the CIA counterterrorism specialist put the blame for bin Laden's escape firmly on Clinton.
"In terms of which administration had more chances, Mr. Clinton's administration had far more chances to kill Osama bin Laden than Mr. Bush has until this day," Scheuer said. Now imagine how the WoT would be going if John Kerry had been elected?
#4
More importantly is MSN actually allowing someone to speak critically of Clinton. What a nice event for the truth to get out to the people.
Posted by: 49 pan ||
08/21/2005 20:56 Comments ||
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#5
POTUS Kerry = POTUS Dean = POTUS Gore = POTUS Hillary > even iff Amerika "wins", it must lose. The DemoLefties are just depending on the GOP "Fascists" to create new global empire while quietly or indir promo themselves as the SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH, "SOCIALIST" AND BETTER ALTERNATIVE TO FASCISM, i.e. COMMUNISM. You know the DemoLeft has nuthng/is bad when BILL MAHER of "Liberals have told the truth" fame starts to distinquish or clarify himself from BOTH THE DEMS AND US LEFT!? ALL THE LEFTIES AND HILLARY HAVE TO RUN ON IS NEW 9-11's AND US MIL DEFEAT, BESIDES OF COURSE BOTH FOR/AGS ANY SIDE PC WAFFLISMS!?
EFL
A leading Republican senator said Sunday the war in Iraq is looking more like the Vietnam conflict from a generation ago. leading in MSM coverage because he sings their tune
Nebraska Sen. Chuck Hagel, who received two Purple Hearts and other military honors for his service in Vietnam, reaffirmed his position that the United States needs to develop a strategy to leave Iraq. Eventually, no sh*t.
"Stay the course is not a policy," said Hagel, a possible White House contender in 2008. "By any standard, when you analyze 2 1/2 years in Iraq ... we're not winning." By any standard? OK RBers, I can think of 4-5 right now....how many can you think of?
Sen. George Allen, R-Va., another possible candidate for the GOP nomination for president in 2008, said the formation of a constitution guaranteeing basic freedoms would provide a rallying point for Iraqis. "The terrorists don't have anything to win the hearts and minds of the people of Iraq. All they care to do is disrupt," said Allen, who appeared with Hagel on ABC's "This Week."
Hagel said more U.S. troops is not the solution. "We're past that stage now because now we are locked into a bogged-down problem not unsimilar, dissimilar to where we were in Vietnam," Hagel said. "The longer we stay, the more problems we're going to have."
Allen said that unlike the communist-guided North Vietnamese that the U.S. fought, the insurgents in Iraq have no guiding political philosophy or organization. Still, Hagel argued, the similarities are growing. When you see everything through VietNam-Quagmire goggles, what a surprise that your world-view is soooooo wrong. Hagel, like McCain should never be the Republican nominee
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 11:23 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[6 views]
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#1
Let's see: Hagel, McCain, Snowe, Specter, that cry baby in Ohio, what's his name, Voinoivich?
With Republicans like these, who needs the Democratic-Socialists?
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
08/21/2005 13:23 Comments ||
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#3
"Allen said that unlike the communist-guided North Vietnamese that the U.S. fought, the insurgents in Iraq have no guiding political philosophy or organization. Still, Hagel argued, the similarities are growing."
Charlie Gibson: Sen. Allen, since you and Sen. Hagel have the same viewpoint on Iraq, why should I vote for you?
Sen. Allen: The differece is that Sen. Hagel believes that the Iraq War is just like the North Vietnamese and I believe the Iraq War is just like a little south of what the North Vietnamese did.
#4
What ticks me off most about Hagel's remarks are that he incurred the Leftists' wrath, along with many other brave returning Nam vets, so he must realize how destructive his comments are.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/21/2005 14:19 Comments ||
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#5
No, the media is protraying the Iraqi war as if it is like Vietnam.
I dont think they will be able to get away with it this time. Too many bloggers like Michael Yon who are actually there in the midst of war and not back is some { Bagdad | Saigon } bar getting news third-hand from some { Jihadi | Viet Cong} minder....
#6
I'm extremely disappointed with Chuck Hagel and his loud mouth. I guess he didn't learn anything from Vietnam except how to milk his service for sympathy. As another Vietnam vet, I find his constant carping both highly annoying and totally dishonest.
If I weren't such a law-abiding citizen, I'd put two or three rounds into his crotch, so he'd have to remember his dishonoring the blood of his compatriots who fought and died, both in Vietnam and in the Middle East, for the rest of his life.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/21/2005 14:51 Comments ||
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#7
Nebraska Sen. Chuck Hagel, who received two Purple Hearts and other military honors for his service in Vietnam, reaffirmed his position that the United States needs to develop a strategy to leave Iraq.
Leftists love exit strategies. They can't come up with a strategy for winning a war, bu their strategies for losing are profound. Exit strategies is the only kind of warfighting they understand.
#8
"It'll be just like Vietnam" -- when the left said that as we went into Iraq, they weren't making a prediction.
They were making a threat. Now we see the results of them carrying through on the threat.
Time to start charging the deserving with treason.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/21/2005 15:11 Comments ||
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#9
Hagel has done and said tons of stupid stuff like this in the past on other subjects. He needs to be tarred and feather with them and ridden out of the view out the public with them. Hope some of it sticks to the MSM as well.
Sorry but if he is from Nebraska he is actually a "centrist"(as in not really) and should be a moderate left Demmocrat.
#10
TAF: Let's see: Hagel, McCain, Snowe, Specter, that cry baby in Ohio, what's his name, Voinoivich?
Actually, of that group, only Hagel is dovish on the War on Terror. McCain is very conservative on military and economic issues, but somewhat liberal on social issues. The press loves Hagel because he is so dovish. But unless he is running on the Democratic ticket, that's not going to do him any good in the Republican primaries.
#11
The goal is not to leave Iraq but to stabilize it and be invited to stay.
US bases out in the western desert would go a long way to protecting the world economy as the tottering Sauds and over-reaching mullahs fight it out for Islamacist influence.
And a stable Iraq that cannot be successfully invaded / taken over, because of US presence there, will go a long way to dismantling the Islamacist terror threat and stabilizing the post Cold War world.
The danger is that we DON'T stay for a long time, not that we do.
#12
Hagel learned nothing from his Vietnam experience. He is a gutless idiot who obviously doesn't give a rats ass about the soldiers since I assume he knows they will see this. He is a selfish pig, no less selfserving than the Cindy Sheehan crowd. I hope he loses his Senate seat the next time he is up for election, even if it is to a Democrat.
#13
Here are some preliminary GOP poll numbers that sheds some light on Hagel's behavior. What Hagel's doing is a new tactic being done by some RINO'S Republicans. The tactic is to take a anti-war or some other liberal point of view so the MSM will pay more attention to them, thereby receiving nationwide recognition.
You can easily notice on the link that RINO's that take a liberal point of view, e.g. Rudy & McCain, are at the top of the percentage list. You can also notice that Hagel is pretty much a bottom dweller, due to "no-name" name recognition. Hagel's point of view is that this anti-war theme is worth a shot.
Also, from the reports that I have been reading, the RINO's want stake a anti-war claim ASAP before the primaries, for "first to the door" anti-war bragging rights. I know that Hagel & Co. always have been "moderate", but don't let that fact cause you to miss my overall point.
Unknowingly, there is a dangerous precedent is being set. Just when the MSM is being put on their heels. The liberal GOP is too frequently throwing a life raft to the MSM, by giving ligitiamacy.
#14
PR: What Hagel's doing is a new tactic being done by some RINO'S Republicans.
It's not. Hagel has been consistently non-interventionist even before 9/11. Just because a guy's a military veteran is no guarantee that he's an internationalist. I don't think this guy hates America, unlike the leftists. He simply may think that stuff that happens overseas is somebody else's problem - a viewpoint with which I find myself agreeing more and more.
#15
Here's hoping Hagel learns about "biteback" the hard way.
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/21/2005 17:31 Comments ||
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#16
ZF,
If you don't think that Hagel's looking at his poll numbers, on the link at #13, then with all due respect, you are out of your mind. It's real simple, he wants the MSM to make his name, a household name. He is jealous that McCain's getting all the coverage.
Also, you did exactly what I told you not to do on the last sentence of the 3rd paragraph.
#17
PR: Also, you did exactly what I told you not to do on the last sentence of the 3rd paragraph.
You're saying that this is something new from Hagel. But his record is precisely the opposite of what you say - the fact is that he consistently opposed sanctions against both Iran and Iraq even before 9/11. These are not media-induced positions - every few months, he'll pipe up again, just so people know where he stands. He's a dove, not a weather vane.
#18
By making these statements, Hagel is making himself non-competitive in the Republican presidential primary. He is too conservative to run as a Democrat. And he is too liberal to run as a Republican. In a way, I'm glad Hagel is telling us what he really thinks. Better that we hear this up front than have to deal with another Bill Clinton, who had this habit of promising one thing and doing another.
#19
He simply may think that stuff that happens overseas is somebody else's problem - a viewpoint with which I find myself agreeing more and more.
My problem with that stance is that there is simply no way to get on with our lives while ignoring what is happening elsewhere.
Our economy depends on it. Our homeland's security depends on it. The days when a country could look just within its borders is long gone, I'm afraid - for better or worse, those problems that somebody else is having affect us whether we want them to or not.
#20
trick is to deny Hagel positions (chairmanships) based on his positions.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 18:10 Comments ||
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#21
lotp: My problem with that stance is that there is simply no way to get on with our lives while ignoring what is happening elsewhere. Our economy depends on it. Our homeland's security depends on it. The days when a country could look just within its borders is long gone, I'm afraid - for better or worse, those problems that somebody else is having affect us whether we want them to or not.
This hasn't been tried for 60 years, since the end of WWII. Note that nobody gives Canada or Argentina a hard time. Staying out of the Napoleonic Wars, the Franco-Prussian Wars and the Crimean War did not exactly handicap the Republic during the 19th century. It may be time to say goodbye to some of these alliances that have represented a blank check for various countries to draw upon apparently inexhaustible reserves of American blood and treasure.
#22
This hasn't been tried for 60 years, since the end of WWII.
There may be a reason for that. Isolationism didn't exactly serve the US well between WWI and WWII.
Note that nobody gives Canada or Argentina a hard time.
Canada is a nerve center for the international jihad. You want to emulate their model?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/21/2005 18:35 Comments ||
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#23
RC: Isolationism didn't exactly serve the US well between WWI and WWII.
Actually, it served the US perfectly well. Note that WWI cost the US 100,000 dead. And WWII cost the US 300,000 to 600,000 dead. Neither conflict threatened America's territorial integrity - the Japanese were in no position to conquer Hawaii (and one could argue that Hawaii is a cluster of volcanic rocks of no value). The fact that large numbers of Europeans and Asians died in those wars is immaterial - that is why, in the past, American administrations have stayed out of their fights. The fact that others die is tragic, but the reality is that getting involved in their disputes is seldom a winning proposition. I really don't see how WWII was worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of GI's, especially when most of those casualties were incurred in fighting a country (Germany) that hadn't attacked us in the first place.
#26
I really don't see how WWII was worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of GI's, especially when most of those casualties were incurred in fighting a country (Germany) that hadn't attacked us in the first place
??? ZF - this is the first time I've gotta say: you and I are on different planets strategically, as far as allies, and morally. Not engaging teh Axis would've led to a far different America than we have now - a pseudo-France. I prefer the way we (at least we as I see it) are
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 18:47 Comments ||
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#27
FG: ZF - this is the first time I've gotta say: you and I are on different planets strategically, as far as allies, and morally. Not engaging teh Axis would've led to a far different America than we have now - a pseudo-France. I prefer the way we (at least we as I see it) are
They weren't our allies. And we had no moral obligation to defend them, at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dead. The problem with assuming an obligation is that your premise has to be that the lives of our young men aren't worth much - whereas the lives of foreigners are worth a lot. I don't share that premise.
#28
When I say they weren't our allies, I mean exactly that - no treaties bound us to their defense, just as no treaties bound them to our defense (not that we needed defending from the banana republics to the south).
#29
I wouldn't balance it as you say - our boys' lives were worth the strategic and moral war we fought in concert with our allies. An axis-driven world would never have left America in isolationist terpor. Too many mongrels and Joooos.
Your Buchananite snap has me wondering about your China analysis, which I accepted before as balanced. Sounds like we see the world and America's place differently. At least I know that now
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 18:56 Comments ||
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#30
Isolationism has a lot to recommend it. It doesn't mean complete isolation. What it means is only engaging when your interests are directly involved and with countries that share your aims. Arguably its happening already. The big problem with this position is the current dependence on imported energy. Fix that problem and the world starts to look a very different place.
#31
Staying out of the Napoleonic Wars, the Franco-Prussian Wars and the Crimean War did not exactly handicap the Republic during the 19th century
But this is the 21st century, with a global economy, instantaneous communications, rapid global travel and weapons of mass destruction.
Completely different issue.
And RE: WWII, even then there were strong economic and security concerns that brought us into that war. Those are multipled 100 fold today.
There simply is NO way for the US to remain economically strong and politically free by focusing only within our borders. I don't argue for being in Iraq for Iraq's sake -- I argue it for our sake.
#32
Yes, energy is one big issue. But it goes much farther than that.
Every day on the London currency exchange the total of currency trades is greater than the world's entire ANNUAL trade in goods and services. That's one small measure of the way in which economies are now fundamentally and deeply intertwined. Even if it were possible to unwind that and be self-sufficent within our borders, or with a few allies -- and I am not at all sure it is -- then at a minimum that is a hugely risky and difficult thing to pull off and one that would take decades, not days or weeks or months.
#33
Let me note that Canada's "isolationism" is really an attitude of cooperation with the internationalist elite. Canada sends peacekeepers -- to Afghanistan, for example -- when their masters at the UN permit it.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/21/2005 19:15 Comments ||
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#34
FG: I wouldn't balance it as you say - our boys' lives were worth the strategic and moral war we fought in concert with our allies.
They weren't our allies.
FG: An axis-driven world would never have left America in isolationist terpor.
Isolationist torpor? A major defense build-up had been ongoing for a few years prior to Pearl Harbor. That is why the Japanese weren't able to roll right over Hawaii. It is also why the Germans were unable to blockade shipments from the North America to Britain, despite their state-of-the-art U-boat designs. By the time we joined in (on the margins in North Africa, of all places), the Germans had lost the Battle of Britain by a wide margin, and were on the verge of losing major battles to the Soviets. In Asia, the Japanese were stopped cold in the middle of Burma and were bogged down in the vast expanses of China, taking significant casualties - they simply could not advance any further. The Japanese were never in a position to conquer the Hawaii, let alone the continental United States. And the Germans couldn't even cross the English Channel.
FG: Too many mongrels and Joooos.
Heck - there's a lot of people around the world who have this view of America (including much of Asia). We could kill them all for less than the cost of a WWII. Do you propose that we do so?
FG: Your Buchananite snap has me wondering about your China analysis, which I accepted before as balanced.
Buchanan's view is that Uncle Sam is to blame for WWII. My view is that Uncle Sam did unpaid charity work at a cost that was paid in heavy American losses during WWII.
The idea that analysis is "balanced" is just odd. My analysis isn't "balanced". It is conservative - in the sense that it looks to American interests over the interests of other countries.
FG: Sounds like we see the world and America's place differently. At least I know that now
"America's place in the world" is a notion that has no value to a conservative. If we cared about it, we'd not be beating up on the United Nations all the time. People that want the world to fawn over them pander to the supplicants with their hands out. The role of government is not to worry about notions of "America's place in the world". It is to keep its citizens safe, keep the economy humming and not get involved in international disputes that could get Americans killed.
#35
FG: Let me note that Canada's "isolationism" is really an attitude of cooperation with the internationalist elite. Canada sends peacekeepers -- to Afghanistan, for example -- when their masters at the UN permit it.
If we bagged our alliances, I bet we could send out ten times as many peacekeepers as the Canadians, with just as little effect on the small-scale conflicts now going on around the world. All peacekeepers do is stand around. The guys now in Afghanistan aren't peacekeepers - they're combat troops assigned to NATO. Big difference.
#36
FG seems to think that I think sympathize with the Axis powers. That's simply not true. I wouldn't have shed a tear if they had been exterminated to the last man, woman and child. But the fact is that it was not our problem, and large numbers of GI's lost their lives on this crusade that is now made out to be America's moral obligation. It was not, any more than it was anybody's else moral obligation. Every major power that fought in the war, with the exception of Canada and the US, was either invaded or under some plausible threat of invasion. And Canada was simply responding to the call, as one of the British Empire's Dominions. Note also that Canada (and Australia and New Zealand) were so closely bound to the mother country that it was theoretically possible that a Canadian, Australian or New Zealander could become the British Prime Minister.
#38
FG seems to think that I think sympathize with the Axis powers. That's simply not true. I wouldn't have shed a tear if they had been exterminated to the last man, woman and child. But the fact is that it was not our problem, and large numbers of GI's lost their lives on this crusade that is now made out to be America's moral obligation
I never suggested, nor do I think that you sympathize. I merely question your assessment that we (America) would've been better off not confronting, taking casualties, expending treasure, etc. I think the moral calculus that makes America the greatest nation on Earth, also makes us the world's policeman at times, lest we lose ourselves, cost be damned. I don't accuse you, I simply disagree, viscerally, about our nation's soul
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 19:39 Comments ||
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#39
The big difference between 2005 and say 1912 is not the level of trade dependence of major economies. They are broadly the same as %age of GDP. The big difference today is trade dependence on places where you have little or no political control, and energy because of the scale of dependence is far and away the biggest problem. Economic interdependence could easily be rolled back except for strategic minerals and that has always been the case right back to Roman times.
So far what I have been hearing from you is your opinions of Hagel without any links or quotes. Since you didn't offer ANY links to prove your theories on Hagel, I did it for you. Hagel is NOT a Buchanan conservative as you bodly say, that only has US's interest at heart. You say that he's always been ultra-conservative, I say you are DEAD wrong, he is a true RINO.
This link just debunked everything you said about your precious Hagel. Hagel on the issues.
Pay close attention to:
1. Hagel on Foreign Policy
2. Hagel on Free Trade
3. Hagel on Immigration
Your boy always has been and always will be a LIBERAL PIG. Oink! Oink!
#42
I tend to agree with Zhang. I am deeply suspicious of any argument that relies on a moral justification and that includes the need to fight the Nazis in WW2.
#43
lotp: But this is the 21st century, with a global economy, instantaneous communications, rapid global travel and weapons of mass destruction. Completely different issue.
Non-state actors cannot produce WMD's. The Japanese cult, Aum Shinrikyo, with a stable of PhD's to draw from, couldn't. Muslim terrorists certainly can't. Note that WMD's have very distinct signatures, depending on who made them. If the Pakis should hand one over to terrorists, we can disappear Pakistan. And the Pakistanis know that.
lotp: And RE: WWII, even then there were strong economic and security concerns that brought us into that war. Those are multipled 100 fold today.
Actually, during WWII, most of the markets in the world were broken up into imperial trading blocs. We had no access to the trading blocs set up by the European empires. As to security concerns, Europeans warred on each other throughout the 19th century, and it looked, at one point, as if Napoleon might win. That moment passed.
lotp: There simply is NO way for the US to remain economically strong and politically free by focusing only within our borders. I don't argue for being in Iraq for Iraq's sake -- I argue it for our sake.
Every other country around the world is economically strong and politically free despite focusing only within its borders. Is it lotp's contention that the US is the one exception despite its being bounded by two oceans?
Note that the US has always had an expeditionary capability since becoming a great power. Teddy Roosevelt's Great White Fleet was the first large-scale demonstration of America's ability to project power abroad. Whether or not we keep our alliances has nothing to do with our military posture. Note that the inter-war navy was one of the most powerful navies in the world. It was why the Japanese couldn't invade Hawaii. People talk about Switzerland as if it's some kind of eighth wonder. But the US was a continental-sized Switzerland during its "isolationist" period. British positions in Singapore collapsed in February 1942, despite them having 150 years to fortify their positions. Our boys had been in the Philippines for only 50 years, and held out until June 1942.
I don't have a problem with Afghanistan and Iraq - the fact is that 9/11 cannot go unanswered. But the the alliance system we have in place is a complex of booby traps waiting to blow up on us.
#44
phil b and ZF - if all national relations are based on a economic interest, then we all become corporations,morality becomes bottom lines. I refuse that future. Why don't we abolish all borders then? No-one is an ally or threat, correct? It's all in the numbers, who cares if they kill their own people by the thousands, after all, they supply cheap toys and plastic goods. F*&k that.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 19:58 Comments ||
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#45
PR: Your boy always has been and always will be a LIBERAL PIG. Oink! Oink!
Oh - I think Hagel is a !@#$#. But he's a principled !@#$# - every time I've read an article with his name on it, he's pushed my red buttons.
#47
America stands with (naturally) former members of the UK empire, because we are the best future of the world. Look where UK-based law has crumbled (Hong Kong, ZimBobwe, South Africa....) and show me one place that's better off for its' citizens, the world?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 20:02 Comments ||
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Nebraska's Senator Chuck Hagel has become a vocal critic of the Iraq war. Today he said that the United States is losing in Iraq, and Iraq is like Vietnam. The Associated Press reports:
"A leading Republican senator and prospective presidential candidate said Sunday that the war in Iraq has destabilized the Middle East and is looking more like the Vietnam conflict from a generation ago."
But wait! What exactly makes Chuck Hagel a "leading Republican senator"? Not seniority; he is a second-termer. Not any official responsibilities; Hagel is not a member of the Senate leadership, nor does he chair a Senate committee. Not legislative accomplishment or influence; Hagel has little noteworthy legislation to his name, and is more often an eccentric voice--e.g., in his call for reinstatement of the draft--than an influence on his fellow Senators. It is hard to escape the conclusion that for the Associated Press, any Republican who attacks the Bush administration and claims that we're losing in Iraq is automatically promoted to "leading Republican senator" status.
And "prospective presidential candidate"? Not as a Republican.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 20:15 Comments ||
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#49
Every other country around the world is economically strong and politically free despite focusing only within its borders
The depth of willful ignorance embodied in that statement is breathtaking. Setting aside projects such as the EU (a rather major counter example), the World Bank and other researchers have ample evidence that in fact the reach of globalization is extensive, pervasive and overriding, occuring in multiple layers from local trade through regional blogs (usually informal but increasingly multilateral and codified on key issues) and culminating in the currency / funding markets that have a massive influence on national economies.
#51
Hagel most not know history to well. The war lasted 2 weeks and we won. The insurgency is exactly what I would have hoped to happen. Germany took 3 years before things started to come together. Killing them over there by the Thousands. Not them killing Americans here by the thousands. It is obvious the the Prez is not putting enough pressure on the surrounding countries. It is not easy being at the top. 67% of Americans polled want a more aggressive approach to putting and end to this. Hagel's blather should stoke the fire under the Pres to be more aggressive. China, Russia and Iran are probably laughing their butt's off regarding this statement. Is Hagel the Republican John Kerry?
This statement just sunk Hagels ship. I hope the people of Nebraska realize what this statement has done to men and women fighting over in Iraq.
#52
Hagel and ZF have both lost points with me today.
For ZF to refer to the U.S. response to the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor and to the Nazi conquest of Europe as "unpaid charity work" (#34) just leaves me sort of stunned.
ZF, do you conduct your personal life in the same way that you would have us conduct our international life? Do you look out for your friends? Do you right wrongs? I'm not asking if you are a caped crusader -- I'm just wondering if you have any friends that you would step forward to defend or rescue.
#54
lotp: The depth of willful ignorance embodied in that statement is breathtaking. Setting aside projects such as the EU (a rather major counter example), the World Bank and other researchers have ample evidence that in fact the reach of globalization is extensive, pervasive and overriding, occuring in multiple layers from local trade through regional blogs (usually informal but increasingly multilateral and codified on key issues) and culminating in the currency / funding markets that have a massive influence on national economies.
Our military alliances are the underpinnings of international trade? That's the liberal contention, that the US has a big military because it enables Uncle Sam to intimidate the locals and extract trade concessions. But the fact is that the countries with which we have military alliances are the ones that are the most protectionistic towards us. They think that the existence of our military bases on their soil entitles them to protect their markets from US goods. Just ask the Korean buyers of American cars who were subjected to tax audits by the South Korean government. Just as the Japanese importers of American agricultural and pharmaceutical products whose applications were rejected by the Japanese government because Japanese physiology is supposedly unsuited to American products. Other countries just slap countervailing tariffs on Japanese products. We have to be extra-careful out of fear of endangering our ability to keep our military bases there, which exist primarily to protect the same countries that are keeping our goods out.
lotp: And similar statements hold for military cooperation.
The US Navy opened up Japan to foreign trade, under threat of naval bombardment, in 1854. No alliances were required to accomplish this watershed event, which eventually resulted in the overthrow of the military dictatorship (Shogunate) that had ruled Japan for the past 200+ years. Uncle Sam doesn't need alliances to maintain a large standing military - muscular internationalism has been a tenet of American diplomacy since it was founded. Alliances are *not* a necessary feature of muscular internationalism (just another way of saying 'poke in the eye, and we'll take your head off').
Even without alliances, we can still choose to participate in certain wars that are determined to be in the national interest. What alliances do is remove the element of discretion. At the moment, we *must* come to Japan's defense. We *must* come to Korea's defense. What alliances really do is bind us hand and foot, and automatically get us into conflicts that may not necessarily be of concern to us.
#55
yep - better question, ZF (Robert) any friends who would step forward and defend you?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 20:41 Comments ||
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#56
"muscular internationalism has been a tenet of American diplomacy since it was founded"
That's not my take on Foggy Bottom, ZF. And with all the benefits of 20/20 hindsight, please tell us which major conflicts we should have skipped.
#57
MG: Master ZF is talking Real Politik Frank. Morality has no place in the Middle Kingdom. It's nuanaced don't 'ya know, an advanced form of thinking.
Nothing advanced or nuanced about placing more value on the lives of kith and kin than on those of total strangers in foreign lands. What is nuanced and advanced is the idea that American lives are of so little value that they should automatically be sacrificed on the altar of Good Samaritanism for a bunch of foreigners via the mechanism of the alliance system. This is foreign policy on autopilot, and we have these treaties with a significant number of countries.
#58
I could accept that if our troops were under U.N. command, but the "bunch of foreigners" are friends that we chose -- and we pick our own battles too.
#61
But the fact is that it was not our problem, and large numbers of GI's lost their lives on this crusade that is now made out to be America's moral obligation. It was not, any more than it was anybody's else moral obligation.
Actually, in the grand struggle between good and evil, it is always the good guys' moral obligation to stand up against evil. Pure and simple. Otherwise you are nothing. Not a human being. Nothing. WW2 was not a mere squabble. It was one of many battles between good and evil. And those on the side of good, stood up and fought.
I kind of like what is written in the Bible: Oh how I wish that you were either hot or cold, but you are neither, so I spit you out. (or something to that effect, I have to look it up).
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/21/2005 21:18 Comments ||
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#62
The problem I have with ZF's 'real politik' is that it is not, in fact, based on the realities of the world today.
I *also* reject his position on grounds of honor, dignity and what makes us humans worth while.
But even on grounds of REALISM he is way off base. The suggestion that we could pick and choose our interventions so that they surgically help us, while we sustain a robust economy blithely free of treaty attachments with others is ....
well the charitable words that come to mind is 'naive' and 'unaware'.
#64
Darrell: ZF, do you conduct your personal life in the same way that you would have us conduct our international life? Do you look out for your friends? Do you right wrongs? I'm not asking if you are a caped crusader -- I'm just wondering if you have any friends that you would step forward to defend or rescue.
But that's just the point. Individuals (including myself) have friends. Countries don't, except in the sense that an ambassador has a strong relationship with the leader of his host country, which he then leverages to get concessions for his country. The alliance system is a means for Uncle Sam to provide military welfare to dependents all over the globe. And the price is typically paid in American blood. My question is this - just how worthless is an American life that a blank check should be written in advance - in the form of a defense treaty?
#66
And the price is typically paid in American blood.
...and British blood, Australian blood, Italian blood, Polish blood, Iraqi blood, Afghan blood... there's a lot of foreign blood mixed in there.
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/21/2005 21:41 Comments ||
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#67
Rafael: Wow. All I can say is...wow. Is there such a thing as honor in your world, ZF? Totally freakin' selfish world view you got there.
I guess this means that the American administrations that refused to participate in European wars during the 19th century were dishonorable. And those of the founding fathers who inveighed against entangling alliances were dishonorable men.
My view is that there's nothing particularly honorable about putting up your brethren as human sacrifices so you can pat yourself on the back for being a great humanitarian. If you want to do things for honor, you do it yourself. There's something about basking in reflected honor that just doesn't sit well with me.
To take just one example, how was it honorable for the US to take China's side during the Sino-Japanese War? The Japanese were simply johnny-come-latelies to the game of empire, looking for their share of the pie. The Chinese had built a continental-sized country slightly larger than the US over the course of two thousand years. While the Chinese were beavering away at pacifying (i.e. massacring) the barbarians, the Japanese were minding their own business. The first chance Japan gets to expand its territory, Uncle Sam gets in his face. How is that honorable?
#68
ZF
Too much to say but it's late. Let me just say this: Had the US remained "isolationist" in 1941 you'd be speaking German today... and New York nuked in 1948 or so would have sped up the learning.
And had you not made all the sacrifices of the Cold War you'd be speaking Russian.
And if you don't make all the sacrifices today you will speak Arab or Chinese in the future.
#69
ZF - IIRC - your nom-de-email is Robt Rosenthal? Which makes the Real Politik even more crazy......
Sorry if my memory fails, but WTF?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 21:51 Comments ||
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#70
ZF, I'm sorry but you're exactly the reason why I tell my Polish friends to be weary. As an example, Poland is basking in the perceived safety of NATO, but I keep telling them, there are those in the US (and I had Buchanan in mind) that would have none of it defending Poland when push comes to shove. They were sacrificed before, they might still be sacrificed again. Your viewpoint confirms that I am not exaggerating.
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/21/2005 21:53 Comments ||
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#71
Rafael: ZF, I'm sorry but you're exactly the reason why I tell my Polish friends to be weary. As an example, Poland is basking in the perceived safety of NATO, but I keep telling them, there are those in the US (and I had Buchanan in mind) that would have none of it defending Poland when push comes to shove. They were sacrificed before, they might still be sacrificed again. Your viewpoint confirms that I am not exaggerating.
There is this weird notion that Poland was "sacrificed". It wasn't sacrificed - it screwed up by not becoming strong enough to defend itself. There is no divine right of nations to remain sovereign - each nation's sovereignty is ultimately defended by the blood of patriots, not foreigners. Nations are not individuals within a nation state - each nation must ultimately fend for itself.
#72
wow - I'm going to bed a bit sadder and even more cynical.... if that's possible. Sleep well Robt
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 22:02 Comments ||
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#73
Folks, calm down, this one quote says it all.
Sen. George Allen, R-Va., another possible candidate for the GOP nomination for president in 2008, said
Got that "Candidate for the 2008 Presidential election."
Anything else is hot air designed to stir up debate.
Sure worked here 71 responses so far.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
08/21/2005 22:03 Comments ||
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#74
There is no divine right of nations to remain sovereign
Hmmm, well I guess you're right. So I guess you wouldn't mind if your house was robbed, since there's no divine right of individuals to keep property. You just screwed up by not protecting your house well enough. Makes sense.
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/21/2005 22:08 Comments ||
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#75
I could think of a far more sinister analogy but I will desist.
#77
Rafael: Hmmm, well I guess you're right. So I guess you wouldn't mind if your house was robbed, since there's no divine right of individuals to keep property. You just screwed up by not protecting your house well enough. Makes sense.
You are confusing the role of individuals within the nation state and the state of nature that exists in the international sphere. We pay taxes to keep in place a criminal justice system that will investigate, catch and imprison the perpetrators of such crimes. Do foreign countries pay Uncle Sam taxes to sacrifice its young men in their wars?
#78
Redneck - the issue here, at least my issue, is where the hell I put ZF in my spectrum of "personalities". Obviously I was wrong in prior assumptions.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 22:22 Comments ||
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#79
but emotions are taking over
Maybe it's just me, but I can't fathom the idea that someone out there actually thinks that the men and women, in and out of uniform, who fought and died in all the just wars (WW1,WW2,Korea,Vietnam,Iraq,Afghanistan), died for nothing. Maybe it's just me.
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/21/2005 22:23 Comments ||
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#81
Hey I just got around to reading the whole thread.. thanks you all ...Frank expressed my views the closest, You have to back up allies when the shit hits the fan., But I also recognise the dangers for American citizens from our burgeoning alliances. UN, EU, NATO, World Court, NAFTA, GAT etc. plus the traditional ones, which ZF's slant illustrates quite well.
great topic for discussion
Posted by: Red Dog ||
08/21/2005 22:31 Comments ||
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#82
"Do foreign countries pay Uncle Sam taxes to sacrifice its young men in their wars?"
You may want to re-think that question ZF, and what it implies.
#83
Do foreign countries pay Uncle Sam taxes to sacrifice its young men in their wars?
No. But neither do you live in a vacuum. Shit that happens half way around the globe, may affect you here at home. Sometimes, it may just be in your interest to defend that puny shithole-stan of a nation somewhere on the globe.
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/21/2005 22:35 Comments ||
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#84
It comes to this: the really bad guys, the idealistic ones, won't stop until the whole world lives under their rules... and rule. Hitler was one such -- he would not have stopped until the entire world was Judenrein, then Slav-rein, then anyone-not-German-"Aryan"-rein. The Islamists are the same -- it isn't enough to leave them alone, they won't be satisfied until everyone is a member of their flavour of Muslim, and those that disagree are dead. The Soviets in their time were the same, although they were happy enough with simple conquest, whether overt or covert.
So, just as in past ideological conflicts, it doesn't matter whether the U.S. was directly attacked or not; sooner or later the war comes to us, because we stand in the way. It needn't be us -- whichever nation refuses to submit would be forced into that role. But we never have submitted, so there it is.
And I would prefer our troops to fight it out on their soil rather than ours. Not just because I prefer our non-combatants to be safe... my mother was a runner for the Dutch underground after all, despite being Jewish, and her father in his attic forged papers for her comrades... but because our boys and girls are more effective over there, where they can use all their toys to best effect.
And that, Mr. Fe, is why your statements appall me.
#85
Rafael: Maybe it's just me, but I can't fathom the idea that someone out there actually thinks that the men and women, in and out of uniform, who fought and died in all the just wars (WW1,WW2,Korea,Vietnam,Iraq,Afghanistan), died for nothing. Maybe it's just me.
They died for something - to keep nations an ocean away free. We can say they did something great and honorable, much as the Crusades were great and honorable. Nineteenth century American administrations stayed out of European wars. Were they cowardly and craven? Those of us who came out of these conflicts with our families whole get to bask in reflected glory. But what about the Americans whose family members were killed in one of these crusades?
I wouldn't mix all of these wars together. The war with Japan was clearly warranted. We were right to burn their cities down in retaliation for Pearl Harbor. And Afghanistan and Iraq were clearly necessary to re-establish the fear of Uncle Sam in Muslim minds. All of the other conflicts were honorable efforts that may not ultimately have been necessary - from the standpoint of American interests.
#86
WW2 makes a very poor argument for a moral war. Prior to the war it is arguably whether Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia was more evil. On body count the Soviets win hands down. Both started the war by invading Poland (2 weeks apart). Yet we fought it by allying with the Soviets and then handing them half of Europe for another 2 generations of totalitarian horrors. If that's morality then I'm happy to be called amoral.
I agree with everyone on this thread, except ZF. We got baited by ZF, even though is a regular. I am with Frank, I will more skeptical of ZF than in the past. If he wants me to believe him, I want links, period.
If you look on the link on #40, you will see that Hagel is a big supporter of China, Vietnam, and Singapore. I believe ZF had a agenda for the this thread.
You got admit that this thread was for RINO duplicity and not for dragging back the past 60 years. I will trust ZF, but I will verify, as I did on this thread.
#88
TGA, you'd be dead along with my parents and all their relatives. So I never would have been born. *shrug* Sort of a 15 years early abortion, I suppose. Fortunes of peace with honour.
#89
But I also recognise the dangers for American citizens from our burgeoning alliances
An alliance is not a one-way street. All sides have obligations to fulfill. Respect is one such obligation. If this condition is not met, then we are no longer talking about an alliance. Hence there's nothing to fear from the EU, world court, etc...
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/21/2005 22:52 Comments ||
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#90
TW: It comes to this: the really bad guys, the idealistic ones, won't stop until the whole world lives under their rules... and rule. Hitler was one such -- he would not have stopped until the entire world was Judenrein, then Slav-rein, then anyone-not-German-"Aryan"-rein. The Islamists are the same -- it isn't enough to leave them alone, they won't be satisfied until everyone is a member of their flavour of Muslim, and those that disagree are dead. The Soviets in their time were the same, although they were happy enough with simple conquest, whether overt or covert.
Germany's reach exceeded its grasp. By the time Uncle Sam won his first victory against the Germans in North Africa just over a year after Pearl Harbor, the Soviets had crushed the Nazis at Stalingrad. After this defeat, the Nazis just lost battle after battle in the Soviet meatgrinder. American participation was superfluous.
The Soviets did need to be put in their place. But were Korea and Vietnam the places to do it? Were alliances the way to deal with this? Couldn't we have aided them with money and equipment exclusively? The British and the French certainly did not stick around to ensure that their former colonies did not fall into Communist hands - they sent aid and limited numbers of advisers, but let nature take its course when the local government was too incompetent to beat the Reds. Note that the Soviets avoided getting into a guerrilla war with American-backed forces - until Afghanistan. They lost their shirts and then some. We paid them back in spades for Korea and Vietnam.
It goes without saying that Islam's reach also exceeds its grasp. Islam has nothing comparable to either German or Soviet power - Germans were pioneers in just about every industrial age sector, whereas the Soviets were major innovators in every category of arms production. If necessary, we can burn Muslim cities down and kill them by the hundreds of millions. In fact, what we are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq is to deliver a stark warning to them - the fire next time. What Islam did to us must be avenged and I have no problem with punitive expeditions into Islam's heartland.
#91
WW2 makes a very poor argument for a moral war
Many Poles believe that Americans should have kept on marching past Berlin and into Poland. Hence my comment that Poland was sacrificed. One guy even told me that Americans should have used nukes to expel the Russians from Poland (in WW2).
Do I think that the Americans should have kept on marching into Poland? Yes. Would it have justified the added bloodshed that a war with the Russians would bring? I'm completely subjective on this issue so I can't answer this. Many would say no. Does this mean that to do nothing would have been the better alternative? Again, many (even Poles) would say no.
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/21/2005 23:10 Comments ||
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#92
The Soviets did need to be put in their place. But were Korea and Vietnam the places to do it?
I look at the wars in Korea and Vietnam more as an effort to save the people from communism, than a fight against the Soviets. A win in either war would not have defeated the Soviet Union.
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/21/2005 23:14 Comments ||
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#93
The British and the French certainly did not stick around to ensure that their former colonies did not fall into Communist hands
But Americans did, many died, and that's why I will forever be pro-American and defend American interests, and I'm not even American. God knows I get buffeted around whenever I confront the pathological anti-Americanism that is abound up here in moonbat land.
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/21/2005 23:22 Comments ||
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#94
PR: I agree with everyone on this thread, except ZF. We got baited by ZF, even though is a regular. I am with Frank, I will more skeptical of ZF than in the past. If he wants me to believe him, I want links, period. If you look on the link on #40, you will see that Hagel is a big supporter of China, Vietnam, and Singapore. I believe ZF had a agenda for the this thread. You got admit that this thread was for RINO duplicity and not for dragging back the past 60 years. I will trust ZF, but I will verify, as I did on this thread.
PR is confusing Chuck Hagel's public pronouncements with his votes. Hagel has always been a dove in his public pronouncements. This is why his name really sticks in my craw. The amusing thing is his voting record demonstrates that he is no moderate, with an ADA (liberal) rating of 15 (out of 100). The guy is a strong social conservative, economic conservative and verbally dovish on defense issues, but actually conservative in his voting record. I withdraw my criticisms of the guy. He is Hillary in reverse - a conservative in moderate clothing.
Note that Chuck Hagel is a free trader, which is a *conservative* position. He supports enhanced trade with *everyone* - Singapore, Chile and Vietnam. PR takes this to mean that Hagel *supports* Singapore and Vietnam. No - Hagel just wants to have maximum access to foreign markets for American agricultural products - he does represent Nebraska, a farm state.
I have been following Hagel's career for a while now. What stuck out in my mind was how he was consistently dovish in his public pronouncements. Now that I've actually taken a look at his ADA record, I'm really amused - the guy's a wolf in sheep's clothing - he's just as conservative as McCain on defense issues.
#95
Rafael An alliance is not a one-way street. All sides have obligations to fulfill. Respect is one such obligation. If this condition is not met, then we are no longer talking about an alliance. Hence there's nothing to fear from the EU, world court, etc...
point taken Yes our govt. has been fairly succesful manuvering, we usually can reject such legal attacks.
example, In the past [wasn't it the world court?] some world body wanted to indict US troops and the American admin. over action overseas.
BUT what if Hilly Clintoon was pres? She might sacrifice more of our sovereignty.
I would prefer to follow the ZF thread and explore this later..hokay?
Posted by: Red Dog ||
08/21/2005 23:32 Comments ||
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#96
Rafael: Many Poles believe that Americans should have kept on marching past Berlin and into Poland.
I believe every one of our "allies" should send at least one fully-equipped combat division into Iraq to help clear out the guerrillas. However, so far, only British troops have engaged in active operations, and only on a fairly cursory basis.
Rafael: But Americans did, many died, and that's why I will forever be pro-American and defend American interests, and I'm not even American.
Much as I'd like to have people get a warm feeling inside when they think about Americans, I'm not sure it's worth the expenditure of very many American lives to do so. We lost 100,000 men in Korea and Vietnam. That's a lot of American widows and orphans.
#97
Ok then, I concede. Just remember, you do not live in a vacuum.
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/21/2005 23:49 Comments ||
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#98
ZF: After this defeat, the Nazis just lost battle after battle in the Soviet meatgrinder. American participation was superfluous.
More to the point, the lack of American participation in fighting Germany would have meant more Soviet casualties because less German men and equipment would have diverted towards fighting American troops in North Africa, followed by Italy and France. How would that have been a bad thing?
#99
Rafael: Ok then, I concede. Just remember, you do not live in a vacuum.
I don't think anybody has to concede anything. I just want to point out that there is non-dovish non-interventionist argument. We just won't hear it from either the Buchananites or the moveon.org types, all of which have a blame America mentality.
Great thread! Even the detour was scenic! Well thought-out positions and arguments. This is why I come to Rantburg. Thanks!
Posted by: mac ||
08/21/2005 23:56 Comments ||
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#101
My take on McCain for the last few years is that he's a bit of a psycho, whereas Hagel has always just seemed sort of stupid. I especially love the "past that stage" on the great mythical "more troops" non-issue -- he's moved from brain-dead superficial criticism to actual defeatism.
The inability to see that the US has, and has had for nearly two years, a reasonably good strategy for achieving its objectives in Iraq (not leaving -- that's not an objective) is stupefying.
Let's see Frank, I'd say the inability of the opposition to affect the political transition or calendar is a pretty decisive indicator of success to date. Gutting Tater Tot's "military" option cleanly and completely was impressive. Involvement of Iraqi elements in more and more offensive operations is relentlessly growing. I wasn't here a year ago, but I know the IZ is much quieter and more secure than back then.
A patriotic camp with a "God Bless Our President!" banner sprung up downtown Saturday, countering the anti-war demonstration started by a fallen soldier's mother two weeks ago near
President Bush's ranch. The camp is named "Fort Qualls," in memory of Marine Lance Cpl. Louis Wayne Qualls, 20, who died in Iraq last fall.
"If I have to sacrifice my whole family for the sake of our country and world, other countries that want freedom, I'll do that," said the soldier's father, Gary Qualls, a friend of the local business owner who started the pro-Bush camp. He said his 16-year-old son now wants to enlist, and he supports that decision.
Qualls' frustration with the anti-war demonstrators erupted last week when he removed a cross bearing his son's name that was among hundreds the group had put up along the road to Bush's ranch. Qualls called the protesters' views disrespectful to soldiers, and said he had to yank out two more crosses after protesters kept replacing them.
Cindy Sheehan, whose 24-year-old son, Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, died last year in Iraq, started the anti-war demonstration along the roadside on Aug. 6. "Camp Casey" has since grown to about 100 core participants, and hundreds more from across the nation have visited. Sheehan vowed to remain there until Bush agreed to meet with her or until his monthlong vacation ended, but she flew to Los Angeles last week after her 74-year-old mother had a stroke. Her mother has some paralysis but is in good spirits, and if she improves, Sheehan may return to Texas in a few days, some demonstrators said.
In her absence, the rest of the group will keep camping out for the unlikely chance to question the president about the war that has claimed the lives of about 1,850 U.S. soldiers. Bush has said he sympathizes with Sheehan but won't change his schedule to meet with her. She and other families met with Bush about two months after Casey Sheehan died, before she became a vocal opponent of the war.
Large counter-protests were held in a ditch near Sheehan's site a week after she arrived, and since then, a few Bush supporters have stood in the sun holding signs for several hours each day. Bill Johnson, a local gift shop owner who created "Fort Qualls," said he wanted to offer a larger, more convenient place for Bush supporters to gather.
He and others at "Fort Qualls" have asked for a debate with those at the Crawford Peace House, which is helping Sheehan. It's unclear if that will happen. But a member of Gold Star Families for Peace, co-founded by Sheehan and comprised of relatives of fallen soldiers, said her group would not participate. "We're asking for a meeting with the president, period," said Michelle DeFord, whose 37-year-old son, Sgt. David W. Johnson, was in the Army National Guard from Oregon when he was killed in Iraq last fall. "We don't want to debate with people who don't understand our point of view."
Posted by: ed ||
08/21/2005 14:57 ||
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#1
"We don't want to debate with people who don't understand our point of view."
Mainly because they wouldn't be able to explain themselves.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/21/2005 15:13 Comments ||
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#2
I'm sure the MSM will be all over Fort Qalls....
#4
Better to set up audio and video and blast 24/7 the words of Mamma Sheehan juxtaposed with video of the WTC attacks, beheadinga, bomb attacks on civilians, genocide in Sudan, words of the mullahs and terrorists. Bring reality home to those 60's potheads and their media supporters.
Posted by: ed ||
08/21/2005 15:51 Comments ||
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#5
he had to yank out two more crosses after protesters kept replacing them.
In other words, they don't care what anyone else thinks, only Mother Cindy's cretin handlers are the authority-speaking-for-she-who-speakes-for-all-mothers.
How can we contribute to Camp Qualls?
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/21/2005 17:04 Comments ||
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#6
"We don't want to debate with people who don't understand our point of view."
The famous statement "Don't bother me with the truth/facts my mind is made up" immediately comes to mind.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
08/21/2005 23:24 Comments ||
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My favourite:
... The aftermath of September 11 has seen other changes in relations between Arabs and the United States. The World Bank study shows that few Gulf Arabs are vacationing in America anymore. Instead, Middle East destinations like Cairo, Beirut and Damascus have returned to favor. Beirut is oh so lovely in April. And Damascus...like paradise.
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/21/2005 17:26 ||
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#1
That should be amusing interesting for the unveiled womenfolk over there. Saudi men tend to make certain ... assumptions... especially when under the influence of alcohol.
Another one of theses silent dirty wars/ethnocides that are not reproted by the MSM, coz what happens to paleos is much more important.
Jakarta, 19 August (AKI) - The day after an Australian report accused the Indonesian military (TNI) of committing widespread human rights abuses in the restive eastern region of Papua, one of its best-known academics said Indonesia's president should take swift action to put a stop to the genocide alleged to be occurring."The situation in Papua is dramatic, and it is president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono's responsibility to act immediately and stop the TNI," Agus Sumule told Adnkronos International (AKI).
"I have read the draft of the report before it was published. It is based on personal experiences and I believed that it is a snapshot of the actual situation in Papua," said Sumule, who is a sociology professor at Mankwari Unversity in Papua and member of the the Special Autonomy for Papua taskforce.
The report, published by the Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies at Sydney University, gives accounts of rape, torture and civilian killings and says there has been a recent increase in large scale military campaigns in Papua, which are "decimating highland communities".
Indonesian foreign ministry spokesman, Marty Natalegawa, has dismissed the report as "completely baseless and doesn't have even a hint of truth".
The report claims military operations have lead to thousands of deaths and continue to cost lives in Papua - formerly known as Irian Jaya, and the scene of secessionist violence since Dutch colonial rule formally ended in 1962. Various non-governmental organisations have estimated more than 100,000 killed TNI's operations in the region. They accuse the TNI of exploiting virtually limitless powers granted it in Papua by Jakarta for financial gain.
The Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies says it based its findings on the testimonies of hundreds of Papuans over the last two years. It describes how the TNI are involved in illegal logging and corrupt infrastructure and construction work; stablisation and manipulation of local politics; orchestration of attacks blamed on pro-Papuan independence groups; the introduction of illegal arms and militia training and recruitment, and prostitution and the spread of HIV/AIDS.
"A culture of impunity exists in Indonesia which sees its highest manifestation currently in Papua and Aceh," the report's authors state. If the abuses by the TNI are not stopped immediately, the tribes of Papua risk extinction is the key message of the report.
While arguing that Yudhoyono's immediate intervention is necessary to save the Papuans and recognising his merits, Sumule doesn't forget his past: "As president, Yudhoyono must be our interlocutor. At the moment, he is the best possible leader for Indonesia, much better than his predecessors Megawati Sukaroputri and Wahid Abdurrahman. But he a former general, nonetheless," the academic emphasised.
Yudhoyono on Monday hailed the signing of a peace accord between the Indonesian government and rebels from the Muslim-devout province of Aceh. During his speech, he also spoke about the Papua, ruling out independence for the area, but saying a solution involving a form of special autonomy needed to be sought. This was one of the promises he made in the election campaign that swept him to victory last September.
In 2001 Jakarta tried again to appease the Papuans, by granting them greater powers to manage their own affairs. The region was allowed to keep up to 80 percent of the profits from its sale of minerals and agricultural produce, and was also allowed to change its name from Irian Jaya to the locally-preferred name of Papua. But despite these concessions, the region has remained volatile.
"Despite the gradual deterioration of the situation in the last few years, we remain hopeful," Sumule concluded.
#2
No ethnic ties at all, John. Papua/ New Guinea people are Melanesians, no kin at all to Indonesians. By the way, its West Papua, not East.
And the whole transfer of West Papua into New Guinea is extremely murky. As a Dutch colony, the argument was to combine it with other Dutch colonies into the new indonesia. There was a totally fraudulent referendum. And in the background (I have been told- would like to learn more on this) was the Freeport- McMoran mining company, sitting on four mountain ranges stuffed full of gold and copper, and very keen for a compliant national government to give the green light.
Any Rantburgers got any more details on this story? The transfer, I mean. The story since then has been a low level war of independence, far below the radar, bows and arrows against automatic weapons.
Iran's hardline President Mahmood Ahmadinejad put his proposed cabinet to parliament, lashing out at the West and liberalism and promising a government that will "promote virtue and prohibit vice."
Signaling his shock election win had delivered a clean break from the previous reformist administration of Mohammad Khatami, Ahmadinejad pledged to fight off liberalism that he argued threatened Islamic values.
"The international community they go so far as to condemn us. What sort of balance is this? This is injustice and oppression, and our nation will not accept this in international affairs," Ahmadinejad, who took office on August 3, told parliament on Sunday.
It was a clear reference to threats against Iran in the wake of Tehran's decision to resume sensitive nuclear work earlier this month. The clerical regime has refused to return to a full freeze of nuclear fuel work -- the focus of fears the country is seeking atomic weapons.
Ahmadinejad also vowed a more assertive trade policy.
"Currently we are importing from some countries billions of dollars whereas they are not buying our oil and they are also not buying our products," he said in a speech one MP described as "more about ideals than strategies".
"These countries should be thankful to us because we are helping their economies boom, but they are not thankful and are looking at us as if we were indebted to them," the 49-year-old former commando told the conservative-controlled assembly.
The speech to the Majlis, carried live on state television and radio, opened a debate that could last several days on the former Tehran mayor's proposed 21-member cabinet.
Although right-wingers dominate the assembly, the procedure may not be a mere formality. Of those nominated, only two have previously held ministerial posts while the others are mostly unknowns.
Ahmadinejad said four principles would guide the policy of his new government: "expansion of justice, serving people, elevating the country financially and spiritually, and kindness to people".
"Liberal thought justifies and recognises all abnormalities and deviations (and) isolates the values defined by religious training such as equality, forgiveness, selflessness, chastity and immaculacy," he told the 290-seat Majlis.
"Our nation does not and will not tolerate such a thing," he said, vowing a "culture of spirituality" in the Islamic republic.
"We should expand a culture that promotes virtue and prohibits vice, and also favourable to Islamic traditions such as respect to parents, visiting relatives, generosity to orphans and philanthropy... and we should fortify the education, universities, mosques, seminaries and genuine cultural groups."
Ahmadinejad has allocated political posts -- such as the interior ministry, intelligence and culture -- to fellow ultra-conservatives, while technocrats have been appointed to head the oil and foreign ministries.
Since Ahmadinejad announced his team earlier this month, eyebrows have been raised over some nominees' qualifications -- including Ali Saidloo, nominated for the sensitive oil ministry, science portfolio nominee Mohammad-Mehdi Zahedi and health ministry nominee Kamran Baqeri-Lankarani.
"If the parliament behaves reasonably and logically, some nominees will not receive the vote of confidence. If the parliament behaves politically, all the ministers would be approved," Mohammad Khoshchehreh, an MP from Tehran, told IRNA.
One MP, Hassan Sobhani, was quoted as saying by IRNA that "strategies to remove administrative corruption were missing" from Ahmadinejad's programme, and cautioned that faced with globalisation, "we should not be passive and wait for the Islamic civilisation to appear."
Another MP, Bijan Shahbazkhani, warned that government plans to give ordinary Iranians a share of the nation's oil wealth appeared to contradict efforts to contain inflation.
But Iran's all-powerful leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has given his backing to Ahmadinejad's line-up, calling Friday for the Majlis to "complete its legal duty" so the "the new administration is in place as soon as possible". "Democracy", where one man rules by decree (Khamenei), is no democracy, it is dictatorship.
#1
I just read an article in Foreign Policy magazine about AIDS/HIV in Muslim countries. In it was noted that
1) In some parts of Iran, 60% of people with AIDS/HIV are taking ther own lives within the first year of diagnosis;
2) An estimated 61,000 people in Iran today are HIV positive.
President Ahmadinejad's theory will soon be put to the test. So they are going to push chastity and virtue? Ok. If everyone actually follows his advice, we should see negligible growth of HIV from its current levels in Iran. However, if, as I suspect, people don't do what they preach and continue to secretly visit (infected) prostitutes, have sex with (infected) partners outside of marriage and use contaminated needles for illegal drug injections, we will watch HIV/AIDS grow dramatically in Iran. The new reality show in Iran: Sexual Hypocrisy-The Deadly New "Virtue" in Iran.
#3
Every country that closes its eyes to HIV suffers a horrible fate. Socially conservative states are ravaged by aids and Iran/ Middle east are prime for the worst of it.
#4
Jules - 65 to 70 percent of HIV positive in Iran are drug users. The number given by you (61,000) in fact can be much higher (infections doubled in last three years in Iran)- there are over one million drug addicts in this ultra-islamic country.
Best regards...
Posted by: Matt K. ||
08/21/2005 23:58 Comments ||
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United Nations nuclear agency tests have concluded that traces of highly enriched uranium on centrifuge parts were from imported equipment - rather than from any enrichment activities by Iran, a senior western diplomat said Saturday. The findings by the International Atomic Energy Agency support Iran's claims that the material entered the country together with centrifuge parts provided by Pakistan. It was a package deal. 2-for-1 special.
The traces were found on centrifuges in the city of Natanz in 2003 and raised concerns about the motives behind Iran's nuclear activities. Iran has insisted it is only interested in processing low-enriched uranium to generate electricity. The IAEA has been testing centrifuge parts provided by Pakistan as well as uranium found on centrifuges bought by Iran on the nuclear black market. Pakistan provided the components earlier this year to compare the traces and assess Iran's claims of innocence. More at the link.
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/21/2005 00:52 ||
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#1
Only the IAEA is having their concerns raised over this. Everyone else is having their concerns confirmed.
One of Egypt's main political groups, the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood, has urged its supporters not to boycott next month's presidential election.
The Muslim Brotherhood is the only opposition organisation which has broad public support.
A call for a boycott could have led to a low turnout, as well as undermining the credibility of the country's first multi-candidate presidential poll.
The issue has split an already weak and fragmented opposition in Egypt.
The long-awaited statement from the Muslim Brotherhood will most certainly disappoint those who have been calling for a boycott.
Those boycotting the vote object to the constitutional amendment under which Egypt is holding its multi-party presidential election.
The Muslim Brotherhood boycotted the referendum on the amendment.
Like other opposition groups, it argued that the constitutional change was engineered to make it impossible for any contender to seriously challenge the incumbent Hosni Mubarak, who has been in power for 24 years and is running for another six-year term.
Under the amended constitution, the Muslim Brotherhood cannot field a candidate despite the group's popularity.
The statement issued by the group in Cairo repeated well-known criticism of the Egyptian political system and an array of laws that curb political freedom.
But despite that, it urged its supporters to take part in the election.
Several senior members of the group were detained in the run-up to the referendum on the constitution earlier this year. The group's endorsement of the election will most certainly refuel speculation about a secret deal between the government and the Muslim Brotherhood.
The Army is planning for the possibility of keeping the current number of soldiers in Iraq â well over 100,000 â for four more years, the Army's top general said Saturday.
In an Associated Press interview, Gen. Peter Schoomaker said the Army is prepared for the "worst case" in terms of the required level of troops in Iraq. He said the number could be adjusted lower if called for by slowing the force rotation or by shortening tours for soldiers. Schoomaker said commanders in Iraq and others who are in the chain of command will decide how many troops will be needed next year and beyond. His responsibility is to provide them, trained and equipped. About 138,000 U.S. troops, including about 25,000 Marines, are now in Iraq.
"We are now into '07-'09 in our planning," Schoomaker said, having completed work on the set of combat and support units that will be rotated into Iraq over the coming year for 12-month tours of duty. Schoomaker's comments come amid indications from Bush administration officials and commanders in Iraq that the size of the U.S. force may be scaled back next year if certain conditions are achieved. Among those conditions: an Iraqi constitution must be drafted in coming days; it must be approved in a national referendum; and elections must be held for a new government under that charter.
Schoomaker, who spoke aboard an Army jet on the trip back to Washington from Kansas City, Mo., made no predictions about the pace of political progress in Iraq. But he said he was confident the Army could provide the current number of forces to fight the insurgency for many more years. The 2007-09 rotation he is planning would go beyond President Bush's term in office, which ends in January 2009. Schoomaker was in Kansas City for a dinner Friday hosted by the Military Order of the World Wars, a veterans' organization.
"We're staying 18 months to two years ahead of ourselves" in planning which active-duty and National Guard and Reserve units will be provided to meet the commanders' needs, Schoomaker said in the interview. The main active-duty combat units that are scheduled to go to Iraq in the coming year are the 101st Airborne Division, based at Fort Campbell, Ky., and the 4th Infantry Division from Fort Hood, Texas. Both did one-year tours earlier in the war.
The Army has changed the way it arranges troop rotations. Instead of sending a full complement of replacement forces each 12-month cycle, it is stretching out the rotation over two years. The current rotation, for 2005-07, will overlap with the 2006-08 replacements. Beyond that, the Army is piecing together the plan for the 2007-09 switch, Schoomaker said.
With the recent deployments of National Guard brigades from Georgia and Pennsylvania, the National Guard has seven combat brigades in Iraq â the most of the entire war â plus thousands of support troops. Along with the Army Reserve and Marine Reserve, they account for about 40 percent of the total U.S. forces in Iraq. Schoomaker said that will be scaled back next year to about 25 percent as newly expanded active-duty divisions such as the 101st Airborne enter the rotation.
August has been the deadliest month of the war for the National Guard and Reserve, with at least 42 fatalities thus far. Schoomaker disputed the suggestion by some that the Guard and Reserve units are not fully prepared for the hostile environment of Iraq. "I'm very confident that there is no difference in the preparation" of active-duty soldiers and the reservists, who normally train one weekend a month and two weeks each summer, unless they are mobilized. Once called to active duty, they go through the same training as active-duty units.
In internal surveys, some in the reserve forces have indicated to Army leaders that they think they are spending too much time in pre-deployment training, not too little, Schoomaker said. "Consistently, what we've been (hearing) is, `We're better than you think we are, and we could do this faster,'" he said. "I can promise you that we're not taking any risk in terms of what we're doing to prepare people."
Posted by: ed ||
08/21/2005 15:02 ||
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#1
And how long have we been in Germany, Japan, South Korea?
If the Iranians are permitted to go nuclear, won't we have to be there as we were for the Germans as protection against a major [regional] power? Or did we just hang around because they were white folk? or would that be volk?
#2
The Army has changed the way it arranges troop rotations. Instead of sending a full complement of replacement forces each 12-month cycle, it is stretching out the rotation over two years
Among other things, this allows for the xfer of lessons learned. This is particularly important for the less-experienced national guard and reservists. I'm sure they are well trained ... it's the theater-specific details that help so much.
Caught via Capt Ed
Facing trial soon on charges he massacred fellow Muslims, Saddam Hussein vowed in a letter published Sunday to sacrifice himself for the cause of Palestine and Iraq, and he urged Arabs to follow his path. to death
The letter, published in two Jordanian newspapers, was delivered by the International Committee of the Red Cross to a Saddam friend now living in Jordan. It was believed to be the first letter Saddam has sent to a non-family member since his capture by U.S. forces in December 2003.
"My soul and my existence is to be sacrificed for our precious Palestine and our beloved, patient and suffering Iraq," the letter said. "it followed: 'yadda yadda yadda' in closing"
Tayseer Homsi, secretary-general of the Jordanian Arab Baath Socialist Party, said the letter was delivered through the ICRC to an "independent Jordanian political figure who wished to remain anonymous."
Rana Sidani, a spokeswoman for the Red Cross' Iraq delegation in Amman, confirmed that the organization delivered the letter that appeared in the newspapers.
"The ICRC collected the message," she said. "It was censored by the detaining authorities before being handed over to the ICRC for distribution."
Saddam is expected to stand trial in Iraq this fall on charges that could bring the death penalty. His letter appeared to include his musings on that possible fate.
"Life is meaningless without the considerations of faith, love and inherited history in our nation," the letter said. "or ultimate power and killing, which I always enjoyed" he added impishly
"It is not much for a man to support his nation with his soul and all he commands because it deserves it since it has given us life in the name of God and allowed us to inherit the best," he wrote in what appeared to be a clear call to Arabs to follow his footsteps.
"My brother, love your people, love Palestine, love your nation, long live Palestine."
The Jordanian Baath party, which publicized the letter and espouses ideology similar to Saddam's now-defunct Baath party, has no links to Iraq. Homsi, the party secretary-general, said the letter's recipient gave the party a copy of the letter two days ago.
"The Jordanian man wished to remain anonymous. He's an old friend of Saddam, he's not a member of our party nor is he a party functionary," Homsi told The Associated Press.
He declined to identify the man.
Ad-Dustour and al Arab Al Yawm, Jordan's second- and third-largest daily newspapers, said the letter was given to them by Homsi's party at a press conference Saturday.
The letter became public as Iraq geared up for a series of trials, the first beginning this fall, concerning Saddam's alleged role in the 1982 massacre of an estimated 150 Shiites in Dujail, north of Baghdad, in retaliation for an assassination attempt on the former leader. Saddam is a Sunni, and his minority sect ruled over majority Shiites, Kurds and other ethnic groups until he was ousted in April 2003 after the U.S.-led invasion.
Others indicted in the Dujail massacre are Barazan Ibrahim, intelligence chief at the time and Saddam's half brother; former Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan; and Awad Hamed al-Bandar, at the time a Baath party official in Dujail.
The assassination attempt was organized by the Dawa Party, whose members include Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari.
In addressing his correspondent, Saddam said: "My brother, love your people, love Palestine, love your nation, long live Palestine."
Also Sunday, Iraq criticized Jordan for allegedly allowing Saddam's family to fund an Iraqi network seeking to destabilize the country. The Iraqi rebuke appeared designed to blunt bad publicity for Iraq after Jordanian police detained an undetermined number of Iraqis and other foreign Arab suspects in the Friday rocket attack that barely missed a U.S. warship in Jordan's Red Sea resort of Aqaba.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 14:36 ||
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#1
then why didn't he try and take a few with him when he was captured if he is such a martyr , as he sees himself?
In other news, there is the possibility that we may lose our contracted chow hall, which is excessively disappointing. We eat very well here, with hot meals prepared by contracted foreign laborers (I think they're from India). However, the contract may not get renewed and we are currently in the middle of a battle to either renew or, at the very least, extend it.
If we lose our contract, then our cooks will go back to cooking and stop doing whatever else they have been up to. It will also very likely mean MREs for lunch, which means that if I am going to keep up my streak of 0 MREs eaten the entire deployment, I am going to have to either skip lunch or else start making some care package requests for ramen noodles and microwave lunches. :) It will also have a minor impact on troop to task requirements for the companies because they may have to start giving up soldiers for KP.
Budget crunch as the end of the fiscal year approaches?
#2
I've done KP, its doable, but it eats up manpower that is suppose to be manning the line. BTW, the cooks don't do KP, its a detail composed of non-food prep personnel who support the cooks from the Company/Battalion - i.e. Duty Roster. Rummy was all big and hot for shifting jobs from uniforms to civies to maximize combat power. Now here's a good question for the rabble that is suppose to be the MSM at the press conferences. If the objective is to put more guns in the fight why are we pursuing policies that then take those same guns off the line and back into the Mess Hall [...er Dining Facility]?.
#3
1) you don't know that is a policy that is being pursued. You have one person who thinks they might lose the service from contracted foreign laborers.
2) there may be security issues here as well as financial ones
3) there may be a need to dump this contractor and recompete the contract
#1
yawn. Shiny keys for the kos kids. The left has chosen her for a poster child and I agree it sounds like they are trying to polish her to keep anti-semitism in the closet.
The left is sending a message with her, I'm just not sure they realize "the message(TM)" they are sending. The way I see it is a bunch of Woodstock wanna be's trying to recapture the 60's by trotting out an unbalanced, painfully unattractive woman who is disrepecting her son's choices in life and shamelessly using his death as a means to get attention directed at herself.
Personally, I think she is a great symbol of today's left. I'm just surprised they are willing to admit it.
I could go on with my analogy of how she symbolizes all that is today's left, but I won't. But the main problem for those who attempt to put Cindy on their mast-head is that her son is always in her shadows. A young man who chose to serve his country. Young, vital, willing to return to Iraq in a combat position. His youth and patriotism a sharp contrast to ugly, pushy, shamless attention whoring of his death by his mother and her handlers who whore her for political points.
This would have worked before blogs, when the media could completely frame Cindy as a grieving mother who Bush wouldn't speak to. But it's not working now.
She is a symbol of today's left. She is getting their message out. God only knows why left doesn't look in the mirror that is Cindy Sheehan and want to cry.
#2
an unbalanced, painfully unattractive woman who is disrepecting her son's choices in life and shamelessly using his death as a means to get attention directed at herself.
Other than that she seems like a purdy nice ole gal.
#3
The left seems to have a knack for turning private grief into a public circus. Someone needs to explain to them that this is unattractive as well as counter-productive. That someone would not be me.
#4
Let her talk, she is doing all the work for us. Even the Democrats are abandoning the leftist, they realize they will never win in 2008 with them around.
#5
stoopid biatch can't even tell time. 15 minutes is up, dammit
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 11:08 Comments ||
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#6
15 minutes is up, dammit
But it's still the slow news season! What will the press report?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/21/2005 15:13 Comments ||
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#7
A recapture of the 60's is correct. What else explains the toothless, gray-haired hippies that flocked to Camp Casey. And, like the 60's, the MSM is playing up the story in hopes that they can be a force behind withdrawal. None of them give a shit about our military and its mission, yet they clinge to the freedoms the military protects.
This is a different time and a different enemy. But Cindy Sheehan & Co. are lost in the time machine. Let the loony Left sink the "without a clue" Dummycats. They deserve one another.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/21/2005 15:22 Comments ||
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#8
Have you read the comments there? Most of them are along the lines of "Cindy Sheehan shouldn't back down from her totally true charge that the Joooooz are running our foreign policy? And since when did it become anti-Semitic to see Joooooz under every Bush, anyway?"
The issue there is whether Cindy Sheehan wrote "Nightline" producer Tom Bettag that her son died for Israel. First she said that a "hacker" sent the letter from her account. Then she said that she sent it to ideological ally James Morris -- who apparently is commenting on that blog, by the way -- who added the words about Israel to suit his own agenda.
But Slate questioned several other people who supposedly got the same letter directly from Sheehan.
Reading this article, I get the feeling that Casey [sic, Cindy] is being coached by people in an attempt to make her more marketable as a weapon against Bush.
You'll get a different impression from Sheehan herself, who is tired of all the LYING LIARS in the LYING media who LIE about the LIES of the LYING Bush Administration. Oh, and she's not about to tone down her rhetoric to sway any fence sitters, "god damn it". So there.
PITTSBURGH (AP) - Two foolish women protesting the war in Iraq were taken to a hospital Saturday after police broke up an unauthorized march involving about five dozen rubes people on a busy one-way street near an Army recruiting station.
David Meieran, an addled and unemployed goof who helped organize the protest, accused police of "inappropriate and excessive force." Sgt. Clint Winkler, a supervisor on duty, told The Associated Press that one woman who would not leave was subdued with a Taser. He also confirmed that a police dog bit another woman on the leg when she refused police orders to disperse.
Oh! Poor dog! I do hope it's had all its shots.
Both women and a man involved in the march were arrested, Winkler said. "They were told to disperse, peacefully disperse, and failed to do so, so we started down the sidewalk - officers in front, K-9's behind us, and started pushing the crowd down the sidewalk," Winkler said. He said the march broke up after the arrests.
Next time bring in the police equestrian unit, heh.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/21/2005 00:30 ||
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#1
next time try k9's in front, people tend to disperse quicker at the sight of a snarling officer Fido
#2
Plus, most folks don't realize that if you hit that dog, it's assault on an officer. So far as the cops and judges are concerned, that dog is a full fledged cop.
#6
Not like it is that hard to get a permit either. Fill out the forms, pay something like $50-100, wait three days then march. Of course, if you get a bunch of wellfare boob using all their money for dope and want police "brutality" in the headlines.....
#8
Dang. When I think of what a single person could do with a ski mask and a pair of nunchaku (numb-chucks), running through a crowd like that and aiming for buttocks. He could give a dozen orange-sized lumps to a dozen different moonbats and be gone in under 30 seconds.
A spring stick would be almost as good. Maybe with an extra big can of pepper spray in the other hand.
#9
can't do that, Moose, with these people. Too likely to cause a brain injury ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 10:58 Comments ||
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#10
We need to start organizing civilian pro-govt. rapid action battalions, kind of like the RAB. Why is it only leftist America haters get out on the street and get news coverage?
#11
LOL on comments. BTW: a couple of posters are treating me like an antiwar protester in the OC. If anyone would care to come by, I could use the support. (Necessary to read my original post from last night.) They're really hurting my feelings (and yes, conservatives do have feelings . . . gawd). Thanks.
#12
Alright! See footballers! You don't come to the Steel town and mess with my Pittsburgh Steelers ...er ... ummm ... well, unless you're the (cough!, gag!) New England Patriots.
Just remembered: What did I say would happen to antiwar anti-American protesters? I told you public's patience with these royal assholes is wearing thin.
#14
I am in Pittsburgh and what started all the choas is one of the anarchist/peace protestors slapped a TV camera out of the hands of a cameraman. These rabid know nothings wanted a scene. The recruting station was closed when they all got there. They screamed with delight as the TV camera rolled as they looked like fools. They then knocked the camera to the ground. They would not disperse. These protestors were mostly college age goof balls who just want there to be peace on earth (give me a break). In this local, it is the heart of the university dominated section of the city. The U of Pittsburgh, Carnegie Mellon U etc. Yes, one women was bitten in the butt. She commented on local radio that she is just against war in general and Iraq had nothing to do with Vietnam or I mean Iraq.
God Bless W and the troops in the whole WAR on Terror.
#15
I think we should equip the mounted police with sabers and fur hats, the better to ride down lefty blackshirts Cossack style.
I remember a video clip from some lefty riots in LA in '03. An ugly crowd of masked blackshirts (the Moonbat special forces) had assembled on a parking lot and were started throwing rocks at passersby.
The mounted police arrived, lined up about 100 yards away and charged en masse swinging their nightsticks. The surly subversives forgot all about rock-throwing and fled in all directions; leaving backpacks, water bottles, Mumia posters, and reams of Maoist propaganda littering the ground; like a Moonbat Mitla Pass. I think some of them even left their birkenstocks behind in their haste to be elsewhere.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/21/2005 23:11 Comments ||
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#22
Yes, AC, I'm aware of that. And I'm also aware that the Spanish Republicans basically lit the fuse for the war when the Asaltos killed Calvo Sotelo. What I'm pointing to here is that long before the fuse was lit, the powder had been stacked and the train laid by the increasing and finally, near-total hatred and contempt each side had for the other. Never forget that nearly 1/3 of all the casualties in that war were caused by execution squads, squads led by people who determined that the other side was so convinced of its abhorrent beliefs that there was no possible redemption for them, no hope for their change. It was better to simply kill them. I'm not sure how many people who read Rantburg would happily put a bullet into Ted Kennedy or the Clintons but fron what I've read at DU, I'm pretty certain there are plenty of folks over there who would, if promised escape, shoot George Bush down like a rabid dog. The dislike between the two parties in this country is getting more visceral every day and, if the trend continues, it will end up in bloodshed. When it does, it's going to be real ugly. My bet is once that happens, we'll see lots of libs headed for Canada a la 1939's Spanish Republicans headed for Perpignan. My $.02.
Posted by: mac ||
08/21/2005 23:37 Comments ||
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JERUSALEM - Israel was to resume its historic operation to remove the last remaining Jews from the Gaza Strip Sunday and give the final seal of approval for the first ever evacuation from the occupied West Bank.
The dramatic progress made by the army and police in the first three days of forcible evacuations meant that only three Gaza settlements had any sizeable population still remaining before the operation was suspended on Friday afternoon for the start of the Jewish sabbath. Troops were expected Sunday to move into the southern settlements of Katif and Atsmona, leaving only the isolated settlement of Netzarim to be tackled on Monday.
The pullout from Gaza after a 38-year occupation had been initially scheduled to take some three weeks, after which the security forces were then to have turned their attention to the northern West Bank. But with the Gaza withdrawal nearing completion, military sources have said the operation in the northern West Bank is likely to begin now in mid-week.
Hundreds of activists, many of whom took part in the âdefenceâ of the Gaza Strip settlements, have flocked to the northern West Bank communities of Sanur and Homesh to take part in the final showdown.
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, whose disengagement plan has earned him the enmity of his former allies on the Israeli right and within the settler movement, was to convene his cabinet Sunday where ministers were to give final approval for the evacuation of Homesh and Sanur. Having packed his cabinet with supporters of disengagement, the outcome of the vote is in no doubt.
Israel began its occupation of the West Bank after the 1967 war with its Arab neighbours, slowly but surely building settlements across the territory, which should form the bulk of the Palestiniansâ promised future state. Sharon has made no apologies about the West Bank settlement programme, saying in a speech last week that it will âcontinue and developâ.
But Sundayâs cabinet vote should seal his place in the history books as the first Israeli leader to sanction the pullout from any part of an area known by Jews as Judea and Samaria, the heart of Biblical Israel.
Disengagement has raised hopes of a genuine revival of the moribund roadkill peace process.
But both moderate Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas and the radical Islamist movement Hamas made clear on Saturday that it was not about to usher in a new era of peace for a region torn by five years of conflict. Hailing the withdrawal from Gaza as a âfirst stepâ, Abbas confirmed that his Palestinian Authority would take control over all vacated land and planned to build 3,000 new homes on one of the settlements, Morag.
'cause we all know what builders the Paleos are.
But he added it was vital that Israel pulls out of all areas reoccupied since the start of the Palestinian uprising in September 2000 in the West Bank. âAfter that it must stop the settlements and its judaising of Jerusalem,â he said in a speech in Gaza City. âThose who continue with these measures show they do not want peace.â
And we all know how fervent the desire for peace is in Paleos.
While Abbas, a frequent critic of the armed uprising, is seen incorrectly as the moderate voice among Palestinians, he is facing a severe test of his popularity from the hardliners of Hamas who are portraying the Israeli departure from Gaza as a âvictory for the resistance.â A ballot box showdown between Hamas and Abbasâs Fatah movement is now on the cards after Abbas announced that only the second ever legislative elections would take place on January 25.
Just as the Palestinian leader was delivering his speech in Gaza City, militants of the armed wing of Hamas, the Ezzedine Al Qassam Brigades, were delivering their own verdict on the implications of the pullout. In a statement handed to reporters, they reiterated that they would not disarm after the pullout from Hamasâs Gaza stronghold or end their campaign against Israel âuntil the defeat of the occupation from all our landâ.
By which they mean Israel as well.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/21/2005 00:00 ||
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Prime Minster Ariel Sharon is the only Israeli leader who can make peace, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said in an interview with an Israeli newspaper. The Egyptian leader cautioned that it would be a "disastrous mistake" for Israel to isolate the Palestinians of the Gaza Strip once it completes its Gaza pullout "If you erect a fence and carry out a partition, it will be a disastrous mistake. You have to give the residents of Gaza a feeling of freedom so they won't feel like they are in a prison. If you close them up, there will be frustration, which leads to violence," he told the Yediot Ahronot correspondent in Cairo.
On the other hand, if you close them up, they won't be exploding on your buses...
Mubarak also said he is considering visiting Israel to attend a memorial for Yitzhak Rabin, the prime minister assassinated 10 years ago by a Jewish extremist over the Oslo peace accords that Rabin signed with the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. "I hope to be able to come, because of my esteem and regard for Rabin," he said. Mubarak's only previous visit to Israel during his 24-year presidency was to attend Rabin's funeral.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/21/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
So let 'em go south and east. Oh, that's right, Jordan and Egypt don't want 'em...
#5
I hope that when the final Israeli is gone from Gaza, and the inevitable rocket attacks begin, Sharon uses a tactical nuclear weapon on the Strip. 1000 Arabs for 1 Israeli should be the ratio of expenditure. The Paleos will not understand anything but force--they've continually demonstrated this. Well, if that's all they understand, teach them a lesson they can't possibly misunderstand.
Posted by: mac ||
08/21/2005 8:10 Comments ||
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#6
No surprise, as is Egypt- and ME Muslimspeak for ITS ISRAEL WHOM HAS THE BURDEN OF ECON DEV THE NEW PALS STATE. Once the PALs get their state, anti-Israeli ME Muslims and the PA gotta know they will no longer be able to hide behind the UNO or any claims of "special status" or "international status" - read, the next Arab-Israeli conflict will be the Arab's and Pals last, so don't blow it as is Israel's "Line in the Sand" ags any more concessions to Muslims!
The leader of Egypt's biggest Islamic group said Saturday its members would not back President Hosni Mubarak in next month's elections, denying reports that the Muslim Brotherhood might strike a deal with Egypt's ruling party. Mohammed Mahdi Akef told The Associated Press it would be "impossible to back Mubarak in the upcoming elections," but he declined to elaborate, saying the group would issue a statement with further details on Sunday. But he confirmed the accuracy of an interview that the pan-Arab newspaper Al Hayat ran with him Saturday.
Arguing against Mubarak's candidacy in the Sept. 7 elections, Akef told the paper: "It suffices to say that he has stayed at the helm of power for 24 years and did not introduce political reform." The Brotherhood has been banned since 1954 but the government allows it to exist, although it tightens and relaxes its grip on the group as the political climate changes. The group renounced violence in the 1970s, and says it seeks to create an Islamic state through peaceful means.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/21/2005 00:00 ||
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Iraq's Kurdish minority may give up its demand for the right to secede in order to enable a compromise on a new constitution, a senior Kurdish official said Saturday, as protests against a proposed federal charter continued for a second day. Mullah Bakhtiyar, a senior official from the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, the political party of Iraq's President Jalal Talabani, said all parties were showing flexibility in order to finish drafting the constitution. "As for the self-determination for the Kurds, this issue did not enjoy the support of Sunnis or Shiites and we almost gave up this demand," he said.
They have the Peshmerga, so they have a de facto right to secession, even if they don't enshire it into law ...
The Kurds have enjoyed de-facto independence since 1991. If they drop their demand to guarantee the right of self-determination â a codeword for eventual secession that goes beyond mere federalism â it would represent a major concession and would remove an obstacle to agreement on the charter by next Monday's deadline. The other main outstanding dispute concerns the role of Islam in the new state, in which the Kurds and secular groups are pitted against Islamist parties representing Iraq's Shiite majority. "As for the issue of Islam's role, negotiations are still underway," Bakhtiyar, told The Associated Press from the Kurdish city of Sulemaniyah.
On Saturday, leaders of all factions continued a series of meetings in Baghdad's fortified Green Zone. Saleh al-Mutlaq, a Sunni representative on the drafting committee, said "deep differences" had emerged after Shiites demanded that the new charter should explicitly state that the decrees of their religious leadership were sacred â something both the Sunnis and Kurds oppose. As the Monday deadline to finish the constitution approached, Sunni Arabs and some Shiites rallied in Baghdad and elsewhere Friday to protest calls for a federated state. On Saturday, about 300 Arabs in the northern oil city of Kirkuk demonstrated against federalism, chanting "Yes to unity, no to federalism."
Posted by: Fred ||
08/21/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
The Kurds could find themselves between a rock and 3 hard places: Arab-Iraq, Iran and Turkey. An inland state would hardly be viable. They should work on maximizing autonomy.
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler ||
08/21/2005 3:14 Comments ||
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#2
An inland state would hardly be viable.
Ain't it the truth. We've been trying to convince Switzerland of that for over 500 years, but they just won't listen.
#4
a permanent large American airbase in Kurdistan would do them and us a lot of good.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/21/2005 10:59 Comments ||
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#5
That's because the Swiss don't have Persians, Turks, and Arabs for neighbors.
Posted by: ed ||
08/21/2005 11:04 Comments ||
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#6
That's because the Swiss don't have Persians, Turks, and Arabs for neighbors.
And they've always got along just fine with the Germans... who obligingly put a big J on the passports of their Jewish citizens in the 1930s when the Swiss requested it.
King Mohammed VI of Morocca has granted pardon to seven Islamists on the occasion of his birthday, Aljazeera's correspondent in Morocco reports.
Bad move. I have no idea why they do that, but they keep doing it...
The seven were convicted and sentenced to jail terms ranging between two and 16 years after the 16 May attacks in Casablanca in which 45 people were killed. The pardons come following the king's recent statements on supposed excesses committed during the trials of Moroccan Islamists under the anti-terrorism law, Aljazeera's correspondent added. On Friday, AFP reported quoting the Moroccan Justice Ministry that the king had granted full or partial pardons to 417 people, including suspected Islamists, to mark the annual anniversary of the Revolution of the King and the People. The Revolution of the King and the People is celebrated every 20 August.
"About 70 Islamists convicted as part of inquiries linked to terrorism in Morocco are going to be freed after having asked for the king's pardon," a governmental source told AFP. The identities of the suspected Islamists were not given. The king's pardon, however, did not concern "Islamists sentenced to heavy prison terms in the framework of terrorist attacks of 16 May 2003" in Casablanca, the source added.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/21/2005 00:00 ||
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Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika yesterday said he would step up the fight against terrorism in the country and stop militants from reigniting their armed campaign in Algeria. âLet us declare loud and strong: Never again,â Bouteflika said in a speech in the eastern city of Skikda, released by the Algerian press agency APS. âWe will do everything to make sure there is no more terrorism in this country,â he said.
The Algerian leaderâs comments came amid reports of new deadly attacks blamed on militants in the past few days. Late Friday, six people were cut in the throat by rebels, who set up a false roadblock near the city of Batna, east of Algiers, police sources and witnesses said. Witnesses also said one woman was kidnapped by the group. The attack was the worst violence since June 8 when 13 local police were killed in a bomb explosion. Four more people were killed including a police officer and one injured on Wednesday and Thursday in three separate attacks in eastern Algeria, according to newspaper reports in the capital Algiers.
To counter the violence, Bouteflika has also unveiled a national peace and reconciliation plan that will be put to a referendum on Sept. 29. The draft calls for âconcrete steps to stop bloodshed and restore peaceâ in the North African country after 13 years of unrest while banning the âexploitationâ of Islam for political purposes, Bouteflika has said.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/21/2005 00:00 ||
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Aurat Foundation Regional Director Rakhshanda Naz said on Saturday that the foundation had verified agreements between 45 union councils, religio-political groups and elders in various NWFP districts to bar women from voting during the local council elections. Ms Naz told Daily Times that the foundation's current responsibility was to highlight the issue and put it before the authorities concerned. "The foundation has sent written complaints about the issue to the district returning officers, NWFP Election Commission and Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP) for legal action. We will wait for a crackdown against the violators. If the ECP does not act in this regard, the foundation will take the issue to court," she added.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/21/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
I find that picture viscerally disturbing. On the one hand, the woman is voting, and wearing a white burqa, so much more flattering to Punjabi complexion than that horrid dusty blue. On the other hand, she is still wearing a burqa, identifiable to the world only by her nail polish and the shoes on her feet.
#8
I dunno, Sea, you're presuming "thin is in" is in play there. Could be that a properly fatted ankle is the key tipping point that sends the Muzzy Myns into paroxysms of, um, ecstasy. Or something.
#9
In Cairo, at least, 100 kilos is the standard of womanly beauty, or so Mr. Wife was told. And look at Suha Arafat.... Whoops -- don't look at her, just vaguely remember her appearance! ;-)
Pakistan Muslim League (PML) Senator Mushahid Hussain said on Saturday that people had voted for âmoderationâ and that the local council election results showed that people had expressed their confidence in the PML. Addressing a press conference at PML House along with PML Information Secretary Tariq Azeem and Media Coordinator Mahmood Hashmi, Senator Mushahid said the participation of the people in the first phase of local council elections had proven that they wanted stability in the democratic system. He said the local council elections were a positive and democratic step.
Senator Mushahid said it was a matter of great satisfaction that the process of local government started by President Pervez Musharraf in 2001 had continued and the second local council elections were held according to schedule. He said that speculations of delays in these elections had been proved wrong after the first phase was completed on schedule. Mushahid said that although these elections were held on a non-party basis, political parties had participated with great enthusiasm and supported their candidates. He said that contrary to the apprehensions of many politicians, the local polls were also held in a orderly and peaceful atmosphere.
Except for a few dead guys here and there. Nothing out of the ordinary in Pakland...
Tariq Azeem referred to the allegations of rigging by the opposition, saying they were unfounded and baseless. He said such political elements used pre-poll rigging as an excuse whenever they lost so that the elected representative could not continue. Replying to a question about stopping women voters in some NWFP districts, he said that the PML had already asked the Election Commission to declare elections in these areas null and void.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/21/2005 00:00 ||
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ISLAMABAD: Federal Education Minister Lt General (r) Javed Ashraf Qazi on Saturday rejected the alleged statement by the US State Departmentâs spokesperson that Pakistanâs national curriculum contained material which fanned hatred against other religions. Talking to reporters, Javed Qazi said that some sentences of derogatory nature had been pointed out in the past in some textbooks which the Federal Education Ministry also considered wrong. âThe provincial text board concerned was asked to delete it,â he said, adding that the ministry was reviewing the entire curriculum to modernise it yet keeping the Islamic contents intact. Javed Qazi said that Islam believed in respecting the rights of the minorities and other religions, adding that the issue had been discussed during his visit to the United States and he had promised to look into the matter if any concrete reference was produced.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/21/2005 00:00 ||
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In Pakistan's Public Schools, Jihad Still Part of Lesson Plan Each year, thousands of Pakistani children learn from history books that Jews are tightfisted moneylenders and Christians vengeful conquerors. One textbook tells kids they should be willing to die as martyrs for Islam.
They aren't being indoctrinated by extremist mullahs in madrasas, the private Islamic seminaries often blamed for stoking militancy in Pakistan. They are pupils in public schools learning from textbooks approved by the administration of President Pervez Musharraf. ...
Posted by: ed ||
08/21/2005 11:14 Comments ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Prime Minster Ariel Sharon is the only Israeli leader who can make peace, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said in an interview with an Israeli newspaper. The Egyptian leader cautioned that it would be a "disastrous mistake" for Israel to isolate the Palestinians of the Gaza Strip once it completes its Gaza pullout "If you erect a fence and carry out a partition, it will be a disastrous mistake. You have to give the residents of Gaza a feeling of freedom so they won't feel like they are in a prison. If you close them up, there will be frustration, which leads to violence," he told the Yediot Ahronot correspondent in Cairo.
The leader of Egypt's biggest Islamic group said Saturday its members would not back President Hosni Mubarak in next month's elections, denying reports that the 
"As for the self-determination for the Kurds, this issue did not enjoy the support of Sunnis or Shiites and we almost gave up this demand," he said.
The seven were convicted and sentenced to jail terms ranging between two and 16 years after the 16 May attacks in Casablanca in which 45 people were killed. The pardons come following the king's recent statements on supposed excesses committed during the trials of Moroccan Islamists under the anti-terrorism law, Aljazeera's correspondent added. On Friday, AFP reported quoting the Moroccan Justice Ministry that the king had granted full or partial pardons to 417 people, including suspected Islamists, to mark the annual anniversary of the Revolution of the King and the People. The Revolution of the King and the People is celebrated every 20 August. 
Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika yesterday said he would step up the fight against terrorism in the country and stop militants from reigniting their armed campaign in Algeria. âLet us declare loud and strong: Never again,â Bouteflika said in a speech in the eastern city of Skikda, released by the Algerian press agency APS. âWe will do everything to make sure there is no more terrorism in this country,â he said.
Aurat Foundation Regional Director Rakhshanda Naz said on Saturday that the foundation had verified agreements between 45 union councils, religio-political groups and elders in various NWFP districts to bar women from voting during the local council elections. Ms Naz told Daily Times that the foundation's current responsibility was to highlight the issue and put it before the authorities concerned. "The foundation has sent written complaints about the issue to the district returning officers, NWFP Election Commission and Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP) for legal action. We will wait for a crackdown against the violators. If the ECP does not act in this regard, the foundation will take the issue to court," she added.
ISLAMABAD: Federal Education Minister Lt General (r) Javed Ashraf Qazi on Saturday rejected the alleged statement by the US State Departmentâs spokesperson that Pakistanâs national curriculum contained material which fanned hatred against other religions. Talking to reporters, Javed Qazi said that some sentences of derogatory nature had been pointed out in the past in some textbooks which the Federal Education Ministry also considered wrong. âThe provincial text board concerned was asked to delete it,â he said, adding that the ministry was reviewing the entire curriculum to modernise it yet keeping the Islamic contents intact. Javed Qazi said that Islam believed in respecting the rights of the minorities and other religions, adding that the issue had been discussed during his visit to the United States and he had promised to look into the matter if any concrete reference was produced.
