The Christian Science Monitor is impressed
When Judge Hamoud al-Hitar announced that he and four other Islamic scholars would challenge Yemen's Al Qaeda prisoners to a theological contest, Western antiterrorism experts warned that this high-stakes gamble would end in disaster. Nervous as he faced five captured, yet defiant, Al Qaeda members in a Sanaa prison, Judge Hitar was inclined to agree. But banishing his doubts, the youthful cleric threw down the gauntlet, in the hope of bringing peace to his troubled homeland. "If you can convince us that your ideas are justified by the Koran, then we will join you in your struggle," Hitar told the militants. "But if we succeed in convincing you of our ideas, then you must agree to renounce violence." The prisoners eagerly agreed. Now, two years later, not only have those prisoners been released, but a relative peace reigns in Yemen. And the same Western experts who doubted this experiment are courting Hitar, eager to hear how his "theological dialogues" with captured Islamic militants have helped pacify this wild and mountainous country, previously seen by the US as a failed state, like Iraq and Afghanistan.
"Since December 2002, when the first round of the dialogues ended, there have been no terrorist attacks here, even though many people thought that Yemen would become terror's capital," says Hitar, eyes glinting shrewdly from beneath his emerald-green turban. "Three hundred and sixty-four young men have been released after going through the dialogues and none of these have left Yemen to fight anywhere else." To be sure, the prisoner-release program is not solely responsible for the absence of attacks in Yemen. The government has undertaken a range of measures to combat terrorism from closing down extreme madrassahs, the Islamic schools sometimes accused of breeding hate, to deporting foreign militants.
Seated amid stacks of Korans and religious texts, Hitar explains that his system is simple. He invites militants to use the Koran to justify attacks on innocent civilians and when they cannot, he shows them numerous passages commanding Muslims not to attack civilians, to respect other religions, and fight only in self-defense. If, after weeks of debate, the prisoners renounce violence they are released and offered vocational training courses and help to find jobs. Hitar's belief that hardened militants trained by Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan could change their stripes was initially dismissed by US diplomats in Sanaa as dangerously naive, but the methods of the scholarly cleric have little in common with the other methods of fighting extremism. Instead of lecturing or threatening the battle-hardened militants, he listens to them. Only after winning the militants' trust does Hitar gradually begin to correct their beliefs. He says that most militants are ordinary people who have been led astray. Just as they were taught Al Qaeda's doctrines, he says, so too can they be taught more- moderate ideas. Yet despite the apparent success in Yemen, some US diplomats have criticized it for apparently letting Islamic militants off the hook with little guarantee that they won't revert to their old ways once released from prison
..US diplomats have also approached the cleric to see if his methods can be applied in Iraq, says Hitar. "Before the dialogues began, there was only one way to fight terrorism, and that was through force," he says. "Now there is another way: dialogue."
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
02/07/2005 4:41:31 AM ||
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#1
An extremely significant article that needs wider dissemination. It shows that the Islamist terrorist grunts are motivated by religion, while the upper echelons are merely using religion to motivate the grunts. It's the promise of Paradise if one dies in Jihad that's the main motivator. Take that away, by showing that terrorism is not conducting Jihad in the proper manner, and the grunts lose interest.
The job-skills training program has been shown to reduce recividism (sp?) world-over, and shows a relatively enlightened attitude on the part of the Sudanese. The skepticism of the US diplos is very understandable: some of the methods used to reform prisoners seem counterintuitive, if not downright coddling of prisoners, but the statistics speak for themselves. Use what works and discard what doesn't: Only idiotarians insist on using methods that don't show REAL results.
This methodology will NOT work in the United States: The ACLU has sworn they'll sue any government that uses faith-based methods to rehabilitate prisoners, despite the stellar record racked up in other countries using them that are not afflicted by similar legal "watchdogs".
Hitar's the moderate Muslim we should be looking for, supporting, and protecting bodily.
#3
The Anti-Christian Lawyer's Union has proven that it's one of many groups that are a domestic enemy to the US Constitution, and need to be treated as such. I demand that every judge who hears one of their cases where they attempt to restrict the "free exercise thereof" of religion put them in jail for about 20 years. It's time, da$$it, to quit playing games, and get tough against our enemies, or we won't be a nation much longer - just a bunch of blind idiots guiding other blind idiots into disaster. Maybe it's even time for a second revolution against the "secularists" - better known as socialists, communists, and just plain idiots (Howard Dean, Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, and ??????).
We can't fight our foreign enemies effectively if we continue to allow domestic enemies to sabotage us from within. That goes for a lot of LLL judges, too.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/07/2005 16:36 Comments ||
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Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal said here yesterday that the Saudi school curriculum has been reviewed and revised according to the needs of Saudi society and its development. Answering a question at a press conference on the link between terrorism in Saudi Arabia and what is taught in Saudi schools, Prince Saud said: "The Kingdom had long ago started working on reviewing and revising as well as developing its curriculum to meet the demands of Saudi society. It was improved to conform to the needs of today's generation and to upgrade the student's knowledge and logic based on human causes and motives required of the new generation. We tried to eliminate any flaws or what might hinder progress and we tried to ensure that the new curriculum focuses more on understanding, humanity, and tolerance. The media are now addressing and appreciating the positive changes that have already taken place."
Well, that was certainly a waffle, wasn't it?
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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"Well, we have all the buzzwords and trite phrases out to the MSM infidel press, so that doggie bone should give them something to chew on for a while. Maybe they will leave us alone for 6 months."
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/07/2005 11:01 Comments ||
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DHAKA: The Bangladesh government has provided armed security to 50 leading citizens, police said on Monday amid a spate of deadly bombings. "We received an order from the Special Branch of police yesterday to provide full-time trained gunmen to 50 of the country's leading intellectuals, lawyers, civil society leaders and politicians," said a Dhaka police spokesman.
"Police gave me a full-time armed guard from Sunday. It will be with me when I leave my home," the country's leading intellectual, Mohammad Anisuzzaman, told AFP. The move extends armed security protection from political VIPs (Very Important Persons) to civilian society, the spokesman explained, without giving any reasons. However, it follows a series of attacks and the refusal of Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to attend a regional summit in Dhaka for security reasons.
On January 27, a grenade attack on an opposition Awami League rally, killed four persons including a former finance minister. A bomb attack on a press club in southern city Khulna on Saturday blew the hand off a journalist and injured three others. Grenades thrown at an opposition really last year killed more than 20. The Awami League said its leader Sheikh Hasina had escaped an attempt on her life.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 10:52:03 PM ||
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The Irish Republican Army's political ally Sinn Fein has urged the paramilitary group not to return to violence after its withdrawal of a conditional offer to put its weapons beyond use. Sinn Fein's deputy leader Martin McGuinness told Britain's Sky Television on Sunday that it was totally opposed to any return to conflict between Irish nationalists and the British government. When pressed on whether he would "categorically" tell Republican paramilitaries and the Provisional IRA not to break the ceasefire, McGuinness said he would tell all parties to avoid violence. He urged every side, including the Republican movement, the Loyalist parties, the British army and even "undercover elements" in the British military to resist taking any action's that could jeopardise the peace process.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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#1
"You can think about it - but don't you do it..."
#2
Just let the bank robberies and punishment beatings go on as normal tho...
Posted by: Howard UK ||
02/07/2005 6:25 Comments ||
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'Punishment beatings', Howard? That's so 2003! The Padre Pio's where it's at:
"They call it the âPadre Pioâ, but even by the sinister standards of Belfast punishment beatings it is particularly grotesque. At least three teenagers are known to have fallen victim to the IRAâs latest mutilation technique: with their hands tied together as if in prayer, they are shot through both palms with a single bullet from point-blank range. Named after the stigmata of Christâs wounds from the Cross, the punishment is designed to teach a lesson to youths who dare to stand up and challenge their local IRA leaders."
#4
Oh well, at least they're only terrorising their own community... for the moment. What's a few beatings and an occasional murder amongst friends anyway...?
Posted by: Howard UK ||
02/07/2005 8:39 Comments ||
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Why don't they just send the IRA lads away on holiday? I understand the eco-tourist resorts in northern Columbia are simply marvelous this time of year....
Terrorists must be completely isolated by the global community, believes the Russian President's special envoy on issues of international cooperation in the fight against terrorism and transnational crime, Anatoly Safonov. "The global community must completely isolate terrorists, blocking their access to financing and human resources and preventing their use of media to disseminate radical ideas," Mr. Safonov stated during the Riyadh international conference on the fight against terrorism. In an interview with RIA Novosti, he announced that the Russian delegation proposed introducing this notion in the final document of the conference, "emphasizing the importance of anti-terror education of the young generation."
"We must use all resources of society in order to accomplish this task. Education, culture, traditions, religions in various countries may differ, but the attitude toward terrorism and the approach toward fighting this evil must be the same. In other words, we are talking about the fight for the minds of our youth, for our future," Mr. Safonov emphasized. It is especially important, he stressed, to liberate the international cooperation in the sphere of the fight against terrorism from the double-standard policies. "We must clearly realize that there are no 'good' or 'bad' terrorists. The use of double standards, in particular toward Russia, toward events in Chechnya, interferes with Russia's efforts to fight terrorism effectively," Mr. Safonov underlined. "Both Russia and the West must assume a common position on the events in Chechnya," he stressed. "Receiving terrorist emissaries and giving them the opportunity to disseminate their ideas, as it happened recently with a statement of terrorist Basayev on the international wanted list on the British TV, is an authentic example of encouraging terrorist activities. Only by consolidating our efforts on the basis of common strategy and uniform standards will we be able to gain a decisive victory over terrorism," the Russian president's special envoy concluded.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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I completely agree with these beautifully glittering generalities uttered in the passive voice.
#3
"Receiving terrorist emissaries and giving them the opportunity to disseminate their ideas, as it happened recently with a statement of terrorist Basayev on the international wanted list on the British TV, is an authentic example of encouraging terrorist activities.
Just change 'terrorist emissaries' to 'Imams' and 'British TV' to 'American mosques' and you have it made!
The use of double standards, in particular toward Russia, toward events in Chechnya, interferes with Russia's efforts to fight terrorism effectively," Mr. Safonov underlined.
Makes me want to sob. Sigh! Double standards eh?
Why not discuss the double standard applied to terrorism against Israelis?
How does Mr. Safonov square trading with Syria and Iran?
#5
Terrorists must be completely isolated by the global community, believes the Russian President's special envoy on issues of international cooperation in the fight against terrorism and transnational crime, Anatoly Safonov...
Why? If there is no such thing as good and evil (meaning that is just a quaint American notion), then why would you need to isolate them? Oh, so you DO think there are such things as good and evil, but only you sophisticates in the Euro-centric international community can identify them and pronounce how to fight them? Bite me. What you have named here--"The global community must completely isolate terrorists, blocking their access to financing and human resources and preventing their use of media to disseminate radical ideas,"--is exactly what the US has been pushing for for months, YEARS since 9/11, while its "allies" have let it swing in the wind. The folks overseas are truly becoming ridiculous.
#6
Putin indir means the USA - among other reasons, the failed and failing INternational Lefts need numbers to effectively counter still-growing US hyperpower and espec its Battlespace/MilTech Dominance, i.e. the USA runs of Bullets before its enemies run out of cannon-fodder Bodies. Its no accident that Russia-China are holding combined MILEXS at a time when Iran and NOrth Korea are all but daring the USA to invade them ala "NEW VIETNAMS", where both Iran and NK, etc. are basing their primary national defense strategies on bogging down US/Allied milfors in ARMY-BASED/LED,PC, NUCLEARIZED PROTRACTED
"PEOPLE'S WAR", where anti-American professional armies and counterops = Media-correct "armed civilians only"! Rest assured that Russia-China have no problem bombing America as they would also their own Radical Islam mercenaries-proxies!
#7
As for any bonafide, dedicated assassin or medieval ninja, the Commies "ASSASSIN'S MACE" strategem works best when the target [America] does not suspect, or in the alt is placed in a sitch where he cannot escape complete or undeniable destruction. As good dialecticists and alternatists, the PC anti-US Lefts as a class is likely using both modes, etal., known and unknown,legal and illegal, possible and impossible, ags America - ONCE THE TARGET IS DOWN OR DESTROYED, IT IS MEANT TO STAY DOWN, TO BE DEAD OR FOREVER DOMINATED, IDEALLY NEVER TO RISE OR THREATEN OR COMPETE AGAIN!
Pyongyang, February 5 (KCNA) -- The participants in the meeting for the general march of the Songun revolution saw a performance given by the State Merited Chorus of the Korean People's Army (KPA) at the April 25 House of Culture on Friday. Put on the stage of the performance which began with the immortal revolutionary paean "Song of General Kim Jong Il" were chorus songs including "Our General Is the Best," "Song of a Truck Driver," "Long Journey for the Songun Revolution," "They Will Tell the Story of Soldier's Love," "We Will Never Forget Those Days," "Blue Sky above My Country," "Song of Comradeship," "Let's Advance Faster for Higher Goal" and "Let's Continue Our Revolution under the Banner of Songun." The performers highly praised the undying revolutionary feats of leader Kim Jong Il who has pursued the unique Songun politics noteworthy in history of the Songun revolution and trained the KPA and the Korean people to passionate fighters of the Songun revolution and patriots united in one mind around the Workers' Party of Korea, creating a heroic epic in the struggle to defend socialism and build a great prosperous powerful nation.
The DVD version should be out soon on JucheRecords
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/07/2005 1:12:35 PM ||
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And who could forget that stirring performance of "We Eat the Bark off the Trees in Homage to the Great Leader and His Wise Army First Policy, Whatever the Hell That Is."
Posted by: Jonathan ||
02/07/2005 13:57 Comments ||
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And Pink Kim performing "The Korean Wall": "We ain't got no stinkin' miss-iles, Those are Songun es-cape pods...All in all we are all just bricks in the wall."
Posted by: Tom ||
02/07/2005 14:10 Comments ||
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Forget about all that trans-Atlantic talk of kiss-and-make-up following the "Freedom Fries"-era disagreements between France and the United States. There's a new tabloid on Paris newsstands offering an alternate take: "L'Anti-Americain."
The cheeky newspaper's editor-in-chief says Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice can have a free issue of the satirical monthly when she's in Paris next week. Y'know, in case she needs to wrap some fish or line a birdcage.
She'll need to have left her brain at home packed her sense of humor. This month's issue features an entry in a bogus George W. Bush diary that reads: "Ask the CIA: Where's China?" Isn't that one of France's new best customers, now that Saddam's Visa debit card got eaten by the ATM?
Rice and her French counterparts hope to rebuild ties bruised by disagreements over the U.S.-led war in Iraq. In Paris, a stop on her swing through Europe and the Middle East, she'll give a major speech in which she's expected to lay out her vision for American diplomacy. Sure hope it goes something like "Jacques, STFU!"
But on French and American streets, mutual distrust still simmers. Well, on our side, it's more like disgust & contempt.
On the day Bush won re-election in November, unemployed idjit freelance journalist Frederic Royer decided to tap into the French superiority complex the zeitgeist and start "L'Anti-Americain."
The French-language paper offers an unflattering, if tongue-in-cheek, look at America's perceived shortcomings — from fast food to the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Y'know, all the usual top-10 whines & bitches they have been screaming about for the past few years in the pages of "Le Monde".
Cartoons and editorials featuring comparisons of Americans to the Nazis the French still wish were in charge sharp-edged critiques of American politicians — mostly Bush — are a fixture of mainstream French dailies. Royer's monthly strives to pack more punch. But he insists it's good-natured ribbing.
"We're so invaded by American culture, we can't resist," he said. "C'est vrai! We have not put up a fight against any invader for centuries!!
The first edition in December sold 7,500 copies, advertised only by word-of-mouth and its eye-catching cover, Royer said.
Its Bush re-election headline read: "France offers political asylum to Americans!" Paging Alec Baldwin!
The cover of January's issue features a voluptuous blonde clad only in an American flag beside a doctored photo of Bush as a paperboy, proudly pointing to his presidential seal. I'm sure it's much more funny than the description. At least I hope so, but, then again, they DO think Jerry Lewis is a comedy genius.
"The name is 'anti-American' for laughs, but it's really anti-Bush," said Royer. Why didn't he call it "Anti-Bush", then? Obviously, I don't get the nuances involved in this sophisticated thinking.
By ordering troops into Iraq without French permission, in triplicate over European protest and refusing to back international efforts to curb global warming, Bush looks to some Europeans like a cowboy thumbing his nose at the world. You just knew they had to throw that "cowboy" in there somewhere.
Conversely, some Americans see France as ungrateful for U.S. help during World War II. Now where would we get that idea??
"These grudges will probably last a long time. Yup. They go deep beyond the White House and Washington, and out to Middle America," said political scientist Steven Ekovich of the American University of Paris. At least there's one thing red & blue America can agree on....France bites.
Royer acknowledges the success of "L'Anti-Americain" rests on Bush providing good material. "The danger is to do something too basic, too stupidly anti-American, in other words, too French" Royer said. But he expects success "because of the ambient air — maybe what I think a lot of French people are feeling right now."
#3
The French apparently want to develop fullblown hatred between the US and France. Despite Pres. Bush and Sec. Rice trying to repair relations between the two nations, this animosity goes much deeper than the Bush administration-it is a disdain and hatred of Americans, despite the couching of it in humorous statements, that may well push repair beyond the reach of the administration. There is an undercurrent in parts of America right now of deep antipathy for the French. So keep it up France-no doubt you'll reap huge benefits!
#4
I smell a hoax. This paper came out a few months ago and I read about it in some of the European blogs. One or two of them went into the articles and came away with the sense that the publisher is 1) trying to make cash of excessive anti-Americanism, and 2) secretly mocking the same people who would buy such a tabloid.
The anti-Americanism here is different from the real burning anti-Americanism you see from the Euro-lefites. There is no humor in the Guardian, because they are true believers. This stuff comes with a wink from the editor, as if they were trying to discredit anti-Americanism by being so excessive and silly. Maybe I'm wrong. We shall see.
Posted by: Prince Abdullah ||
02/07/2005 17:43 Comments ||
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It does claim to be satirical. The question is, does the tone cover deeply held feeling, or are the writers, as His Majesty Prince Abdullah suggests, really poking fun at the French true believers?
Certainly, the whole enterprise is in bad taste. But let it not be said that the French are incapable of such things!
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 00:00:00 ||
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Another unnecesarry visit of an US official, as if somebody believes anymore what US delegates says. The red man said it already 300 years ago, you white man use a split tongue, go fuck yourself.
Posted by: Murat ||
02/07/2005 10:06 Comments ||
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#2
Although this time you used a black face to bring the white mans voice :)
Posted by: Murat ||
02/07/2005 10:07 Comments ||
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#3
Did your little muslim mind blow a fuse when you realized a black woman is more powerful than any Turk poseur? Go back to Central Asia, you little prick.
Posted by: ed ||
02/07/2005 10:13 Comments ||
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#4
Murat, you should check yesterday's Behavior post. Enjoy the Phrawnch.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
02/07/2005 10:16 Comments ||
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#5
Be very careful Murat you should have seen what happened to Aris the other day.
#7
Nice racist comment there, Murat. It must really burn your ass to see a kufr female in a position of authority.
Happy is the man who calls himself a Kurd, right, Murat?
#8
I'm doubting this Murat just like I doubted the last one who proved to have a Netherlands-based ISP.
Posted by: Tom ||
02/07/2005 11:55 Comments ||
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DB, wouldn't you just love to hear what all those sophisticated Europeans are saying about Condi's race and gender when they're off-camera?
Posted by: Matt ||
02/07/2005 12:07 Comments ||
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Tom, it looks like this is the phony Murat: IP Location - Netherlands - Overijssel - Enschede - University Twente.
Different IP, same country location, same potty mouth.
Posted by: Steve ||
02/07/2005 12:38 Comments ||
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Well then, DB HAS heard what those "sophisticated" Europeans are saying about Condi's race and gender when they're off-camera, hasn't she! Euro-Murat has made it pretty clear.
Posted by: Tom ||
02/07/2005 13:54 Comments ||
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#12
Euro-Murat is more fluent in English than the true Murat, but is trying to cover that with misspellings and such.
Posted by: Tom ||
02/07/2005 14:01 Comments ||
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#13
Well, sort of, in that I have heard what everyday Euros tend to think of blacks, and it's generally not too flattering. For whatever reason, when I go over to Europe they don't think I'm an American (till I open my mouth and the Yankee accent comes out). I don't know why.
Note to Euros....some of us cowboy Americans DO speak more than one language. C'est vrai!
#14
If this Murat is a real Turk, he is very different than the ones I met there a couple of weeks ago. The USA has idiot libs. Turkey has idiots too. This Murat is just one of them. But as I've said on RB before, I did not see or sense any overt Muslim influence, as one would in the ME, no more so than one would see or sense an overt Christian influence in a US city. Ancedotal data, but at least current.
#15
I have found that many in Europe do not consider their countries to be racist because they don't talk about it. Conversely they assume America is racist because we always talk about race in the US.
#16
DB, they didn't use to notice that I was American, either. Even more than how one dresses, its a matter of posture and use of physical space. Generally, American-ness is noticed as one stands in the doorway, even before entering the room. People used to compliment me on my American husband's ability in their language, even as they complimented my facility with English. I was even once complimented on my mastery of the American accent (!!!). The irony is that Mr. Wife's mastery of other languages is significantly better than mine, I just sound local. *shrug*
"...To assault the meatpacking industry," Churchill writes, "is to mount a challenge to the mentality that allowed well over a million dehumanized humans to be systematically slaughtered by the SS einsatzgruppen in eastern Europe during the early 1940s, and the nazis' simultaneous development of truly industrial killing techniques in places like Auschwitz, Sobibor and Treblinka..."
Posted by: Anonymoose ||
02/07/2005 8:53:25 AM ||
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Why am I NOT surprised to see this clown is active in the "animal rights" movement?
One of the absolutely worst "instructors" I ever had at college was an English graduate student who was an "animal rights" freak. Heaven help you if you didn't toe her party line.
Fortunately by the time I ran into this idjit I was a graduating senior. I made a point of wearing leather shoes and eating (gag) McDonald's hamburgers in class. Got a D on my final paper because I argued that if I had to kill a few lab animals to save someone I loved from a horrible disease, well.....at least I'd give the animals some painkillers first.
#2
lovely, Ward. Free speech has consequences as does resume padding, Mr. Non-Indian. Soon-to-be-unemployed Churchill will be shreiking about censorship when he's given his pink slip. Maybe an Air America spot available?
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/07/2005 9:44 Comments ||
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well over a million dehumanized humans to be systematically slaughtered by the SS einsatzgruppen in eastern Europe
How romantic, but then history is a good deal more mundane that the perfesser's 'facts.'
The SS einsatzgruppen I doubt killed more than a few thousand in the first six months of the war. No question there were other pogroms but once the German High Command came to grips with the folly Barbarossa was, SS units that could actually fight were sent to the front lines.
In this I am not saying the progrom ended in 1942; chances are they continued, but using precious fuel and ammunition, inevitable casualties arising from this sort of activity, coupled with vehicle breakdowns and other logistical failures and the successful NKVD partisan 'movement' the mission for the non Waffen SS changed quite a bit.
The perfesser is referring to how large units of SS 'troops' were divided into much small groups and sent to urban areas in thew wake of the adavance of German troops during the first six months of the war against the Soviet Union
#4
Notice how these Marxist always use Nazi images, though it was the National German Workers Socialist Party. The Nazis were second rankers compared to the brutality of Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, not to mention the Kim family. Now there are real butchers.
#5
Each of the 4 einsatzgruppen had around 500 to 750 men each, and they had a complement of 150 to 200 vehicles. 3000 men and 800 vehicles were a drop in the Barbarossa bucket.
Total estimated killings by them number around 1.2 million (see Ohlendorf's testimony).
A true horror, A bit worse than you think Badanov.
#7
''Although I'm best known by my colonial name, Ward Churchill, the name I prefer is Kenis, an Ojibwe name bestowed by my wife's uncle.''
I would prefer to call him by his new name "Penis" bestowed upon him by millions of Americans. I would love this dick to be "out of existence altogether".
Posted by: Gir ||
02/07/2005 10:49 Comments ||
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#8
Then I stand corrected. Sources that I read however said the Eisensatz were in fact much small groups; there were a lot of company sized units doing this kind of activity.
I don't doubt what Germany did to Jews et al during WWII, but my understanding was these particular units were not responsible for most of the murders on the Eastern Front.
#9
He won't get the pink slip for what he said, nor should he. He has tenure.
Basically, this means his university screwed up -- the man has thin scholarship and little teaching ability. But having made the decision, they now get to live with it. Break tenure and you really begin to screw with freedom of speech.
No, I don't have tenure myself, wish I did.
JerseyMike, thanks for the history lesson. Rantburg U. shines again.
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/07/2005 13:26 Comments ||
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#12
kenis means.... He who takes penis up his butt.
Posted by: Tom Dooley ||
02/07/2005 16:03 Comments ||
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#13
Huh. I just got off work, and haven't checked the earlier thread, but I think I rest my case. It's ridiculous that we're shoving our tax dollars into a fifth-column of ivory tower activists that desire preach the necessity of our Nation's destruction---and can't seem to pull the plug that keeps them spewing.
Oh, well, I'm sure Churchill would still spew, but taking away the backing of a State institution might make a little difference.
#14
Churchill will be canned - not for speech, but for fraud. He is NOT an Amerind, and the AIM (a left oriented Indian organzation!) has disowned him.
The guy lied on his resume - therefore he comitted fraud. That is an offense that can and should (in this case, since it established his bonafides) result in his termination for cause.
#15
We are at war and in a war, boyz, for the very life, existence, identity, and continuance of democracy, liberty, America and Westernism as we know it. We either fight and win, or we will be suborned or destroyed - the US and democracy is the sleepy, imperfect town or city suddenly faced with a invading horde(s) out to take our identity, our sovereignty, our freedoms, our wealth, our resources, our lands, our women and our pet dogs BY FORCE, AND BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. IF WE GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT, THEY "MIGHT" OR "MAY" DECIDE NOT TO KILL US AFTER WE SURRENDER - after all, the Left> slavers, raiders, bandits, marauders, mafiacrats, and war profiteer, ......etal. armies are people too, who need to be hugged while they steal and kill you! As was said on VH1, lets all call up our Hollywood agents and demand they do their jobs by making us all into nothings, ala "I want to be a star, d*** you, I want to be nothing. I demand you make me into a nothing"!? Let's all sing "IN THE GHETTO", "RESPECT", and of course Hitler's
"PANZER LIED" as we wave the battle banners of Stalin and Marx, like good, proper Clintonian Amerikans of the USSA, from Amerika's sacred, sancosant, Communist- and Left-Socialist majority, "Fascist" heartland!?
#16
Churchill will be canned - not for speech, but for fraud. He is NOT an Amerind, and the AIM (a left oriented Indian organzation!) has disowned him.
The guy lied on his resume - therefore he comitted fraud. That is an offense that can and should (in this case, since it established his bonafides) result in his termination for cause.
#17
Churchill will be canned - not for speech, but for fraud. He is NOT an Amerind, and the AIM (a left oriented Indian organzation!) has disowned him.
The guy lied on his resume - therefore he comitted fraud. That is an offense that can and should (in this case, since it established his bonafides) result in his termination for cause.
A professor who likened World Trade Center victims to a notorious Nazi suggested to a magazine that more terror attacks may be necessary to radicalize Americans to fight the misuse of U.S. power. In an interview Ward Churchill gave with Satya magazine,
... one of the biggies...
he was asked about the effectiveness of protests of U.S. policies and the Iraq war, and responded: "One of the things I've suggested is that it may be that more 9/11s are necessary."
Another thing that might be necessary is to round up all the people like Ward Churchill and shoot them. But that'll probably come two or three 9-11s down the road...
The interview prompted Gov. Bill Owens to renew his call for Churchill's firing. "It's amazing that the more we look at Ward Churchill, the more outrageous, treasonous statements we hear from Churchill," Owens said.
We're not discussing an internationally recognized intellect here.
"I don't believe I owe an apology," Churchill said Friday on CNN's "Paula Zahn Now" program — his first public comments since the University of Colorado began a review that could lead to his dismissal.
"I'm an arrogant twit, but for some reason the only time people pay attention to me is when I say things that are patently stoopid..."
Meanwhile, Wheaton College in Norton, Mass., and Eastern Washington University canceled plans for Churchill to speak on campus, citing public safety concerns. Stephen Jordan, president of Eastern Washington University, declined Friday to say whether specific threats had been made. Churchill defended the essay in which he compared those killed in the Sept. 11 attack to "little Eichmanns," a reference to Adolf Eichmann, who organized Nazi plans to exterminate European Jews. He said the victims were akin to U.S. military operations' collateral damage — or innocent civilians mistakenly killed by soldiers.
He means they were people of no consequence, nobody he knew or even that his friends knew...
"I don't know if the people of 9-11 specifically wanted to kill everybody that was killed," he told Zahn. "It was just worth it to them in order to do whatever it was they decided it was necessary to do that bystanders be killed. And that essentially is the same mentality, the same rubric."
Actually it's not, since the Bad Guyz were specifically targeting large numbers of civilians and military operations don't do that.
In an interview published Saturday in the Rocky Mountain News, Churchill added, "This was a gut response opinion speech written in about four hours. It's not completely reasoned and thought through."
"In fact, it's not reasoned at all. It's just a mish-mash that fell out of my head and somebody was dumb enough to give me money for writing it."
Churchill said his speech had been misinterpreted. "I never called for the deaths of millions of Americans," he said.
"I just gloated over the deaths of thousands of them."
The furor over Churchill's essay erupted last month after he was invited to speak at Hamilton College in Clinton, N.Y. The speech was later canceled. Churchill, who recently resigned as chairman of the ethnic studies department but remains a tenured professor, said he would sue if he were dismissed.
"They can't do that to me! I'm much, much too important!"
Satya identifies Churchill as a Cherokee and a longtime native rights activist. The magazine's Web site says, "One of Churchill's areas of expertise is the history of the U.S. government's genocide of Native Americans—the chronic violation of treaties and systematic extermination of North American indigenous populations."
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 10:38:23 PM ||
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#1
I am trying out how this idiot manages to remember to breathe, and I'm failing. His "arguments," if one would wish to call them that, are a mix between a holy man's wet dream and treacherous, mind-boggling stupidity. I'm all for freedom of speech - but there's a fine line between expressing a dissenting opinion, and treason, and this idiot crossed it.
By the way, last time I checked, there were still Indians around; apparently we suck at genocide.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
02/07/2005 0:24 Comments ||
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#2
Actually, if this guy keeps it up, the Indians might remove him for us. Apparently he's irritated them quite a bit by what he's saying and the fact he claims association with them. They want no part of him.
#3
"One of the things I've suggested is that it may be that more 9/11s are necessary."
He wants us to believe this pronouncement has the force of an order for an attack. It is the kind of statement that resonate with many leftwingers; it helps them push their political agenda.
The prof knows he damages us and our resolve to fight and win the WoT with irresponsible statements like this; I suspect CBS and AP know this as well.
#4
This guy has no Amerind blood in him at all. I have more in my little finger. He has lots of Red,White and Blue Amerinds very angry with him. I suggest he stay out of New York. Word has it some Mohawks are very angry with him. You know how iron workers can be the meeting might not be peaceful.
I am betting they had specific security threats of the âI am going to burn your *&^ing school down after I kill this clown and you.â variety. When someone is bad news like this fool people quickly see the error of their ways and make strategic cancellations.
The best thing the media can do is ignore this ass. They won't but they should.
#6
The bit I love is how the colleges defend his right to "freedom of speech" or expression, at the very least. Even his own college will denounce him, but won't condemn his speech.
Well, lets see. We could talk about the necessity of killing those slant-eyed buggers, or the dirtskins, or any number of other direct parallels to Churchill's example, and that wouldn't be OK, would it? But if Churchill wants to talk about how Whitey deserves to die, that's all right. Strange, somehow.
For my last thesis I HAD to write papers on the works of Arundhati Roy and Edward Said. In the rough draft I basically ripped them up. I was then informed that I WOULD fail if I continued in that vein. It was "unacceptable" for me to attack the authors' positions as "fact;" instead I was informed I would have to discuss my own feelings and my inadequacy in understanding their position.
A few well-placed footnotes to FIRE regarding academic freedom, freedom of expression, and freedom of religious belief allowed me to pull a B+ out of the ashes.
But isn't there any way to shut down publicly-funded purveyors of Churchill's kind of obscenity? Shouldn't some such method exist?
#7
But isn't there any way to shut down publicly-funded purveyors of Churchill's kind of obscenity? Shouldn't some such method exist?
No there isn't an no it shouldn't. This nation as a whole has done an exceptional job over the last two centuries of filtering the BS out of the background noise before falling prey to it. That can only happen if asshats like this and their half-baked nonsense are continually exposed to the bright light of day. No censorship, no academic martyrdom, no witch hunts, nothing of the sort.
For those of us that would like to see a balance restored to debate in the academy, morons like Churchill are a godsend as is the fact that they actually get significant press. This sort of thing will spur change 100x faster than any pressure that could be mounted by the 55% or so of the population lives to the right of center.
#8
I can just imagine if Ward Churchill had been British PM in WWIIâ¦
"We have brought this on ourselves. The women and children killed by the blitzkrieg were all little Bonapartes. Hitler needs to win." And Parliament holds a vote of no confidence in him but the damage is done.
#10
You figure a couple more taxpayer funded Holocaust deniers might even the playing field a little more, AzCat? Maybe my local university should sponsor a few seminars on white supremacy, or just go the other route and open a La Raza club. (Oh, wait, they aleady have that.)
I figure publicly funded hate speech, and incitement to violence, is a questionably legal use of taxpayer's money for very good reason. I don't see how Churchill helps the mix by saying Americans deserve to die, if not that they should be killed.
#11
I don't give a damn what they say in private colleges and universities. However, any operation of the body of the people had better be subject to some standards. We can start by making all these people working in the "welfare for intellects" classification civil servants. They can have CS status for job protection, but be accountable like any other public employee for bad behaviors. It's not like there is a shortage of applicants for the jobs. The existing tenure system ensures institutional entropy.
#12
"Another thing that might be necessary is to round up all the people like Ward Churchill and shoot them."
Agreed.
"But that'll probably come two or three 9-11s down the road..."
Screw that. Far as I'm concerned, we can get started first thing in the morning.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
02/07/2005 9:10 Comments ||
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#13
Isn't adocating the cold-blooded targetting and murder of thousands of innocent people (that is what Ward is doing) illegal? Why hasn't he been arrested as a terrorist?
#15
That's it. I'm cancelling my subscription to Satya magazine.
Posted by: Matt ||
02/07/2005 10:06 Comments ||
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#16
in an interview with STFU magazine....
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/07/2005 10:12 Comments ||
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#17
NYC voted 4 to 1 for John Kerry in the 2004 elections. That's a 60% victory margin for Kerry. I wonder if another 9/11 would change the percentages for the 2008 elections. Nah - wouldn't change a thing.
#18
Michael Moore criticized the jihadis for attacking NYC, which is infested with liberals. In Moore's view, they should have targeted Republican areas. He could not understand why NYC was hit. But Moore misunderstands why the terrorists attacked NYC - they just wanted to kill as many Americans as possible. The terrorists are as out of sync with liberals and their worldview of easy morals and gay marriage as they are with the conservative worldview of a muscular, national interest-oriented foreign policy. The reality is that the target-rich environments in America are its urban centers, which are almost always hotbeds of liberalism. If Churchill's hopes and wishes come true, a lot of liberals are going to die, and the vast majority of them are going to be liberals (NYC's ratio was 8 to 2).
#19
If Churchill's hopes and wishes come true, a lot of liberals urban-dwellers are going to die, and the vast majority of them are going to be liberals (NYC's ratio was 8 to 2).
#21
Isn't adocating the cold-blooded targetting and murder of thousands of innocent people (that is what Ward is doing) illegal? Why hasn't he been arrested as a terrorist?
CF, it is undeniably stupid and ignorant. Hateful, yes. However, until someone actually kills another human being and states that Churchill's verbal vomit riled him up to the point that he had to carry it out, nope, nothing criminal here.
Since your average jihadi knows he's not going to get his 72 raisins of clarity until he kills for Allah, it is highly unlikely anyone is going to say this Indian-wannabe inspired them to attempt another 9/11.
Now, if someone, say, who had a relative die in 9/11 were to pop his ass, he might, and I repeat might be able to say that Churchill's ignorant mewlings pushed them over the edge. (The ol' "fighting words" defense) They might get reduced charges/sentence, but even that wouldn't get them off scot free.
#25
DB: anonymous2u - That is a lame attempt at sarcasm, right?
He's saying we won't wake up until it's too late. Our politically-correct overtures to the UN and to Islam are the political equivalent of hitting the snooze button.
#26
Saw the Governor of Colorado and, I think, the Chairman of the University Board of Regents on one of the Sunday news shows and they said that Churchill was being investigated and by the end of the month, after due process had been observed, they hoped that he would be fired.
#27
His just desserts for saying such a hateful thing have just begun. He will be vilified by millions of Americans for his hateful blame of our beautiful country, and his life at the U, tenured or not, will never be the same.
#29
The guy's an asshole, a fraud, and a self-loathing little prick worthy of LLL super star status. Yet, I believe he has a right to say stupid moronic blather in the same way any other moron in this great country can. Our country and the ideals it was founded are bigger then this one "wannabe" injun. As someone who defends these ideals daily w/real blood I don't respect this pompous ass one bit, he's never put himself on the line, however, I don't want to stifle someone's first amendment rights because I think they personally suck as a human being or say un-intelligent shit. The free market will usually make them pay for their shortcomings.
If your worried about your tax money going to public institutions that employ a schmuck such as this then write them a letter or make a call to the dean *or* you can censure him by ignoring him (what a narcsisist like this wants most is spotlight; see William Jefferson Clinton or Michael Moore for reference), or not buying his books or boycotting his irrelevant seminars - which seems to be what most of these schools are doing. He has already been given too much publicity imho for his non-sensical bomb-throwing.
#32
I have an odd question. How often does a death threat actually turn into an attempt? If I really wanted to kill someone the last thing I'd do is send a warning out first. Odds are a death threat is a way to scare the tar out of someone without actually having to get close and do the deed.
#33
Asedwich you're missing my point entirely. Churchillâs statements are obviously deplorable and beneath contempt but that doesn't mean that the best course of action in attempting to improve the quality of debate in the academy is to go after individuals like Churchill.
He isn't the problem in higher education he's a symptom of a system that's very ill. But before the larger systemic issues can be corrected they must first be publicized and, let's face it, start talking about crazy college professors, academic freedom, and free speech rights in the academy and 99% of the population will be asleep before the end of your second sentence.
Asshats like Churchill shouldn't be silenced, they should be given megaphones so that the entire population of this nation can clearly see for themselves the dire state of professoriate in our institutions of higher learning. Firing him is like putting a Band-Aid on each new patch of leprosy as it crops up, it might appear to be something of a good idea but in the end it's merely a pointless exercise that will make us feel better but wonât do a darned thing about the real problem.
#34
Heh, I think I understand all of your points, guys, but for my part I live in Washington. When Churchill's ilk speak such things here it isn't really something we can write our state representative about: 55% of the state are already on the side of lunacy, and such words egg them on more than they disgust.
I do understand your point, AzCat, about Churchill being an example of the illness in our academia, but my contention is that it's a matter of magnitude. Public education at the university level is currently about 70% LLL, give or take a few asshats, and although people whine about it it's a testament to our American commitment to freedom that we don't legislate against the preferential hiring, suppression of conservative speech, institution of biased "public speech codes," or ethnic discrimination against the "non-ethnic" white student bodies.
But what do we do when tenured faculty start advocating the destruction of the United States, the annilation of Anglos, and using University property and publishing presses to carry the message? As you say, we could give them megaphones, but I figure that the people inclined to be swayed will be all the more inclined and widely reached, and the people on the other side (you and me) will do what? Hang tight, and wait for an anguished tide of outrage that will also hang tight and do nothing against the like of Churchill?
My point is that I feel academic freedom for educators can be an end run around all the limitations and checks and balances that prevent political and religious campaigning by state or federal employees on public property, on the public dime, and in violation of the public good. Perhaps it's not a question of limiting academic freedom, or freedom of speech, but of limiting the realm of the possible to a more egalitarian exchange of views, with freedom for opposing views.
We seem to already have enough academic asshats vilifying Republicans, western religions, and heterosexuals---it doesn't look like adding the destruction of American civilization will add any more weight to their side of a very slanted scale. Heck, they might win.
#35
BTW, regards his claim to be a Cherokee, they have "adopted" many tribes who are too small or survive in too few numbers to have a political voice, inflating theirs.
Were it not for the statement that AIM has spurned him, I might even buy Cherokee membership - they've hoovered up everyone they can. I was offered "citizenship" in the "Cherokee Nation" - and told them, "No thanks - I'm an American, can you compete with that?" The response was a litany of advantages, mainly of the Federal Affirmative Action type. I found it to be as unAmerican as this assclown. I hope he pays heavily in the real world, since we all know he'll be picked up by some MoonBat Foundation and catapulted to celebrity status in their fevered circles.
#36
On the subject of popping people: threatening a person with bodily harm or death without cause is Assault in the 4th degree. I had a one of my employees years ago call around saying that he was going over to kill me. He then called me, stating that fact. I said, "come on over." Then called the cops. They arrested him and he went to jail for a while. He apologized to me and said that he was drunk at the time. I told him that I was sitting in my apartment with a loaded shotgun. We came to an understanding and parted on friendly terms.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/07/2005 22:35 Comments ||
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IOWAHAWK has a very good (and funny) posting on this guy based on Chutch an old ABC 'superhippie' (as in Billy Jack) show.... GO SEE IT!
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld blasted NBC's "Meet the Press" host Tim Russert on Sunday for selectively editing an exchange he had in December with a National Guardsman who complained that his unit's vehicles weren't armored.
"That was unfair and it was selectively taking out two sentences from a long exchange," the Pentagon chief complained. "And when you suggested that that's how I answered that question, that is factually wrong."
Russert had just aired a clip of the now infamous exchange between his guest and National Guardsman Specialist Thomas Wilson, where Wilson asked during a town hall meeting in Kuwait why "we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to up-armor our vehicles?"
In footage aired by Russert, Rumsfeld replied: "As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.
"And if you think about it, you can have all the armor in the world on a tank and a tank can be blown up. And you can have an up-armored Humvee and it can be blown up."
After the clip had ended, the irked Defense Secretary said, "That is not how I answered that question.
"But Mr. Secretary," replied Russert somewhat sheepishly, "it clearly represents the exchange and ... "
"It does not," Rumsfeld shot back.
Prepared with a full transcript, the Defense chief overode the NBC host and proceeded to read his full answer:
"I talked to the general coming out here about the pace at which the vehicles are being armored," Rumsfeld began in response to Wilson.
"They have been brought from all over the world, wherever they're not needed, to places where they are needed. I'm told they are being — the Army is — I think it's something like 400 a month are being done now.
"And it's essentially a matter of physics. It's not a matter of money. It isn't a matter on the part of the Army's desire. It's a matter of production and capability of doing it. As you know, you go to the war with the Army you have. They're not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time.
"Since the Iraq conflict began, the Army has been pressing ahead to produce armor necessary at a rate that they believe — it's a greatly expanded rate from what existed previously, but a rate that they believe is the rate that can be accomplished.
"I can assure you that General Schumacher and the leadership of the Army and certainly General Whitcomb are sensitive to the fact that not every vehicle has the degree of armor that would be desirable to have, but that they're working at it at a good clip.
"It's interesting. I've talked a great deal about this with a team of people who've been working hard at the Pentagon. And if you think about it, you can have all the armor in the world on a tank and the tank could still be blown up. And you can have an up-armored Humvee and it can be blown up.
"And you can go down and the vehicle — the goal we have is to have as many of those vehicles as is humanly possible with the appropriate level of armor available for the troops. And that's what the Army's been working on." [END OF RUMSFELD'S ANSWER TO WILSON].
After finishing the transcript, the defense chief told Russert:
"Now, that answer is totally different from picking out two lines. And I think it's an unfair representation and it's exactly what some of the newspapers around the country did."
Rumsfeld said that thanks to a program begun last year, every vehicle in Iraq carrying U.S. troops in combat zones would be fully armored by Feb. 15.
#4
C-Span showed the whole thing back at the time it happened. I noticed even fox had cut some parts. You need to see the whole thing on Rummy's answer to have an appreciation for the situation. I'm not always a big Rummy fan but his vilifaction was way over the top imho on this issue. I understood where he was coming from. Glad he took Russert (who I usually like) to task on it.
#9
No, Jarhead, you do not "suck." Everybody's keyboard is illiterate once in a while. If I were using a typewriter instead of a keyboard, stock in White Out would go up ten points. And I direct the Home School Regional Spelling Bee!
Posted by: Mike ||
02/07/2005 12:56 Comments ||
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#5
Oh my God. I missed this when it ran.
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/07/2005 13:23 Comments ||
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#6
Heard on Rush, from a Marine father, that 300 Marines in NC, stood and cheered!!! His voice kinda had a little ??? catch in it as he told his story! I do believe this one commercial will make the rounds through the military, and will do much to convincing them, "we do support you!" I knew there was a reason my Marine was a Bud man!
#7
Oh, and I also read somewhere over the weekend, that Busch gave to 50 military folks, either coming from Iraq or Afgran or going, $600 - $700 tickets for the game!
#8
The reason the ad is so effective is because it reflects how so many of us actually feel. I always want to cheer when I see members of the military, especially when it is in airports and you sense that they are coming from the front. I will buy Bud now.
#11
I teared up reading about the ad on the ESPN site. Good for Bud, I might actually have to buy a case to show my support even though I don't like the stuff (Karl Strauss is the beer man in San Diego)
#12
Next week they're going to show the follow-on commercial of Ted Kennedy walking through an airport, to show the aerodynamic properties of a can of Bud.
Posted by: Matt ||
02/07/2005 16:41 Comments ||
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I saw this at a party in a bar. Once it was over, everyone in the bar applauded as well.
At tough times in my life, with the landlord tossing my clothes and record collection out on to the street, I could have used an aunt like Benon Sevan's. Asked to account for the appearance in his bank account of a certain $160,000, Mr Sevan, executive director of the UN Oil-for-Food programme, said it was a gift from his aunt. Lucky Sevan, eh? None of my aunts ever had that much of the folding stuff on tap.
And nor, it seems, did Mr Sevan's. She lived in a modest two-room flat back in Cyprus and her own bank accounts gave no indication of spare six-figure sums. Nonetheless, if a respected UN diplomat says he got 160,000 bucks from Auntie, we'll just have to take his word for it. Paul Volcker's committee of investigation did plan to ask the old lady to confirm her nephew's version of events, but, before they could, she fell down an elevator shaft and died.
...
A UN panel investigating corruption in Iraq's oil-for-food programme wants to interrogate one of Saddam Hussein's jailed right-hand men, Tareq Aziz, his lawyer told AFP. Badie Aref Izzat said he expected to visit the former Iraqi deputy prime minister in the coming days and would advise him to demand he be questioned in a foreign country, possibly France. Oh sure. Iraq will let him go to France. Get real.
"I have received many messages over the past 10 days from the head of the panel, Paul Volcker, asking me if Tareq Aziz would accept to be interrogated on the oil-for-food programme," Aref said.
A damning interim report by Volcker's panel released on Thursday found Benon Sevan, who headed the programme, repeatedly asked for oil allocations from Saddam's regime. Aziz denies any wrongdoing under the oil-for-food programme, but is believed to be ready to name names in a scandal that now threatens UN chief Kofi Annan, as well as several leading figures and companies in France, Russia and other countries. Why was it you wanted to get him to France again?
"He is a political man, he is very clever, he holds a lot of information on this issue and he will assess the benefits that can be derived," Aref said. "But I believe that his moral sense will prevail on his political instinct." Why his moral sense never kicked in before?
That's quite a good joke, mixing "Tareq Aziz" and "moral sense" in the same sentence. Not many can pull that off.
Aziz, 68, was the left nostril face of Iraq under Saddam's regime. He surrendered in April 2003 after the US-led invasion of Iraq and has since made only one brief appearance in court in July 2004.
Aref said he believed he would be able to meet Aziz this week to pitch the idea of a meeting with UN investigators. "My client has four options. He can refuse to answer the questions. He can wait for the prosecution to decide on a release. He can demand the meeting be transferred to another country or he may decide to answer all the questions without conditions.
"I think the best solution is to have this meeting in another country, like Diego Garcia France, Leavenworth Germany, Mauritania Switzerland or Guantanamo Sweden. You can't reach the truth inside a jail. And these countries will be too embarrassed to refuse," the lawyer said. I am sure he would love to get out of jail and travel to any one of those countries to beat the death sentence he will get in Iraq. It's not happening.
"I think France would be the most suitable place, as it was opposed to the invasion and it was also against the embargo," Aref explained. Why does France keep popping up again?
Frenchies would have to pop him on day one, not a chance in hell that they'd ever let him sing.
However, he has not yet made any proposal to a foreign country for a transfer, that would also require a green light from the Iraqi judiciary.
The only time he was allowed to see his client so far was for a six-hour meeting on December 23. Aref said Aziz had ruled out testifying against the former president then and would probably not change his mind. "He is not faithful to Saddam Hussein, he is just faithful to Iraq and for the moment his country is under occupation. All he told me was: 'When I am free, I will write a book about Saddam Hussein'," the lawyer said.
Aref also said Aziz had urged him to plead for the release of Huda Salih Mahdi Ammash, a woman captured in May 2003 and accused of being a leader of Saddam's alleged biological warfare programme. The scientist is dying of breast cancer, Aref said, warning the US and Iraqi governments that her case was now a "humanitarian emergency".
Remind what kind of emergency it was when the Kurds were gassed?
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom ||
02/07/2005 11:40:44 PM ||
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#1
His lawyer clearly thinks France is better for his client. Aziz must think he can trade his silence for a villa in the south of France. No way the Iraqis will let him go though.
#2
Makes more sense to question Benon Sevan in Iraq.
Posted by: ed ||
02/07/2005 1:45 Comments ||
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#3
He's warming up for the "Ted Bundy" dodge, the one where you see the hangmans noose and then start "remembering" all sorts of helpful stuff trying to delay the inevitable.
I'd like my Aziz fried until he's well done please.
#4
I think we should move Tareq Aziz to Gitmo and allow Volcker to question him there, but only if Volcker brings Benon Sevan along, if you catch my drift.
Posted by: Tom ||
02/07/2005 8:05 Comments ||
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As investigators continued their probe into the scandal-tainted U.N. oil-for-food program in Iraq, the Associated Press learned on Sunday that at least two Swiss trading companies paid kickbacks to secure contracts to buy oil from Saddam Hussein. According to documents obtained by AP, a Geneva-based firm paid a $60,000 illegal surcharge to the Iraqi oil ministry in 2001. The firm, Lakia Sarl, paid the money to an Iraqi-controlled bank account in Jordan in order to obtain a contract for the Iraqi oil. The company is run by Gazi Luguev, a Russian. When Iraq failed to fulfill the contract, Luguev complained to the Iraqi Oil Marketing Organization, or SOMO, and demanded the kickback be returned, copying the correspondence to the United Nations. That correspondence was obtained by the AP.
The chief of the U.N. program, Benon Sevan — who investigators say solicited oil allocations from Saddam's regime and opened himself to the appearance of conflicts of interest — then asked SOMO for its comment before reporting the bribe to the U.N. committee which oversaw the program. Sevan's correspondence also was seen by the AP. "Due to your attitude, it is necessary for us to ask the immediate reimbursement of the sum of $60,000 — which was sent to you from us on your request for a so-called 'necessary' advance payment," Luguev said in a fax to SOMO, dated October 2002. The price set for Lakia to pay for Iraqi oil was significantly lower than the market at that time. When contacted by the AP for comment, Luguev said to "call back in 10 minutes." Phones at Lakia's Geneva offices then rang unanswered later Sunday.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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#1
How delightfully Swiss. Not only demanding their bribe back for nonperformance, but copying the governing authorities to ensure compliance!
#2
You've got to do it right, trailing wife. The kickback business isn't something for amateurs. No, taking kickbacks properly is like making love to a beautiful woman...
Posted by: Swiss Tony ||
02/07/2005 10:17 Comments ||
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#3
Darn it! Swiss Tony, you've removed another one off my list of things to learn.
The Sri Lankan military accused a relief group today of trying to smuggle bomb-making materials hidden in goods probably sent from Britain intended for tsunami survivors in areas controlled by Tamil Tiger rebels. Port authorities found thousands of small steel balls hidden in water pots in a shipping container that consigned to the Tamils Rehabilitation Organisation, the army reported. Sri Lanka's Tamil Tiger rebels, who fought a two decade civil war against the government, are known for loading suicide bombs with metal balls to cause maximum damage.
The rebels control a large area in the ethnic Tamil-majority north and have authorised the Tamils Rehabilitation Organisation to co-ordinate tsunami relief work there. The military website said the balls "could be used for production of bombs or explosives." The report said the pots, believed to have been shipped from Britain, are being held for investigation. A spokesman for the Tamils Rehabilitation Organisation said it would comment only after seeing the military's report.
More than 65,000 people have been killed since Tamil Tigers began an armed insurrection in 1983 to carve out a separate state for ethnic minority Tamils, claiming discrimination by the majority Sinhalese. Fighting ended with a Norway-brokered cease-fire signed in February 2002. Peace talks however, broke down a year later when the rebels withdrew, demanding more autonomy in the north-east.
The Boxing Day 26 Asian tsunami killed more than 30,000 people in Sri Lanka and left nearly 4,700 missing.
This article starring:
Tamils Rehabilitation Organisation
Tamil Tiger
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/07/2005 2:13:40 PM ||
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You can thank Robert Rubin, Clinton's overrated Treasury Secretary, for this - his indifference to Soros's machinations in the currency markets led to Suharto's collapse. Now we have Islamism rearing its ugly head in Indonesia.
Was that his first billion or his second? I can never remember ...
Adulterers, cohabiting unmarried couples and those who kiss in public could all become criminals if a new Indonesian criminal code is approved.
A long awaited draft revision of the Indonesian criminal code proposes harsh fines and prison terms for those who flout the rules. Many say the existing code inherited from Dutch rule is liberal flawed and Western outdated, but some activists are deeply unhappy with the new proposals.
Under the proposed draft, offenders caught kissing in the open could be jailed for up to 10 years and fined as much as 300 million rupiah (A$42,590), reports the Jakarta Post. Unmarried couples living together could be penalised with up to two years in jail. It would also give police and officials the power to raid houses of all those they suspected of living together.
Justice ministry official Abdul Gani Abdullah said the law would only apply if others complained. "Kissing in public is a crime if the people around are not happy and lodge a complaint. But if they think it's all right, then no action will be taken," he told the AFP news agency. "The same goes with cohabitation. If neighbours think the presence of an unmarried couple living together is a nuisance, they can report to police."
And every neighborhood will have a cranky holy man ready to complain.
Law expert and women's rights activist Nursyahbani Katjasungkana told the Jakarta Post the morality articles were excessive and infringed on the "rights of the body".
Legal expert Andi Hamzah asked "What about tourists? Will we hunt them down too?"
What tourists?
The code is expected to be debated over a two-year period. If passed it would bring Indonesia, the country with the world's largest Muslim population, into line with many other Muslim states.
Posted by: Zhang Fei ||
02/07/2005 11:52:45 AM ||
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#1
Indonesia: Poster child of moderate islam.
Isn't this country supposed to be proof of how tolerant islam can be? Isn't it supposed to be an example that muslim countries can be just as modern as any others? Isn't it supposed to be proof that we dont have to worry about moderate islam? Isn't Indonesia supposed to somehow prove that moderate islam is the answer to islamism?
Sounds like they are caving in to me which is what always happens whenever a liberal form of religion meets a more assertive conservative form. It isnt a matter of simply encouraging moderation in practice and teaching, it does matter what the source is.
You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Moderate islam can't hold up to islamism. Its a pipe dream to think it can. Just wait and see as Indonesia only gets more strict and conservative. Just watch as it begins to stagnate culturally and economically in direct proporation to how seriously it takes islamic law.
Yes I would love to see how they deal with the tension between Western tourists and this new law. You can't have morality laws for natives while Western tourists cavort around and dress as they please and you can't force western tourists to obey the morality laws and expect them to keep coming for vacation.
You'd think the answer would be a no-brainer but I don't doubt that if given a choice between tourist income and stricter islam that the indonesians will choose stricter islam. We all know the muslim penchant for shooting themselves in the foot in order to impress Allan.
#2
This may be more of a local cultural issue than a Muslim issue.
I went to graduate school with a young man from Red China during the late â70s. He was never comfortable with public displays of affection. In his home culture, holding hands was a no-no and a public kiss would be obscene.
Before Japan hosted the Olympics the government ran a public education campaign to encourage people not to urinate on public streets. The government knew that this common and accepted local behavior would offend European and American visitors.
When should individual freedom be constrained by public consensus? In oneâs own home a person should be able to do what they wish without interference. But should a person be allowed to play a boom box at full volume on a public street? Should a nudist be allowed to practice his lifestyle choice in the local public park? My right to free choice and expression can run up against another personâs right not to be assaulted by my behavior.
In practice such issues are resolved through animalistic social behavior ranging from public displays of disgust to physical attacks. Local law formalizes local consensus.
I think a just-lit light bulb would be a good pic for this story.
BANDA ACEH, Indonesia - A powerful Saudi charity under scrutiny for alleged terrorist financing is expanding operations in tsunami-ravaged areas of Indonesia, importing a hard-line religious message that the West fears could spread extremist Islam in the world's most populous Muslim nation. The presence of the International Islamic Relief Organization could complicate relief efforts in Indonesia, which is desperate for help but also under pressure to contain Islamic militants after suffering attacks blamed on militants in the past three years that killed more than 200 people.
It also offers a high-profile test of Saudi promises to closely monitor its major aid societies. Many have faced probes as possible back channels for Islamic terrorist groups and vanguards for the kingdom's strict interpretation of Sunni Islam called Wahhabism. The terrorism money trail is a central topic at an international counterterrorism conference wrapping up on Tuesday in the Saudi capital, Riyadh. Delegates from more than 50 nations are expected, including the United States, Iran, many Arab nations and Indonesia.
The International Islamic Relief Organization, or IIRO - one of Saudi Arabia's biggest benevolent groups - has been cleared of any possible terror links by Saudi investigators are still studying possible IIRO connections to the Southeast Asian terror network Jemaah Islamiyah - blamed for the Bali nightclub blasts in 2002 that killed 202 people and the bombing of the J.W. Marriott hotel in Jakarta in 2003 that killed 12 people.
Comras urged careful oversight to ensure tsunami aid doesn't drift into radical hands. "I'm sure their motivations are to help guns, ammo and explosives," he said of the IIRO relief work in Indonesia. "But their fundamental purpose is to spread this version of Islam and one of the unintended consequences is the growth and spread of terrorism."
An envoy for the IIRO rejected any terrorist links. He described the main work in the tsunami zone as purely humanitarian: providing food, caring for orphans and rebuilding mosques - drawing parallels with other faith-based aid groups such as Christian groups.
"Of course, those guys we have to kill, but otherwise we act just like them!"
The group said there was no plans to bring in Islamic clerics from Saudi Arabia, but didn't rule out offering religious assistance in the future. "At this time, they need relief not religion," Fahd Al Harbi told AP as he waited for the arrival of a top delegation from the Saudi Red Crescent Society in Banda Aceh, a hub for international aid groups. "In the future, if they need (religious-related help) we will provide it."
"And if they don't, we'll still provide it."
Al Harbi also insisted terrorism was deplored by the IIRO, which has been active in Indonesia since 1993 and spends about US$1 million a year. "(Critics) always accuse us of being a terrorist organization. But there is no evidence of this," Al Harbi said. "They will not find anything. We've never given money for anything but orphanages and for mosques."
And for what's inside the mosques.
At least one other Saudi-based charity, the World Assembly of Muslim Youth, is active in Indonesia's devastated Ache province. The group has been accused by Israel of alleged financial links to Hamas. US Sen. Charles Schumer, a New York Democrat, has called for a similar probe of the assembly's US branch, which was once run by bin Laden's nephew Abdullah. The group denies any support for terrorist groups.
Cheez, is there any major Muslim 'charity' that hasn't been linked to terror?
Terrorism probes around the world have increasingly examined the possible interplay between militant cells and Muslim charities. In New York, prosecutors suggested an Islamic charity was used as a conduit for money and logistics for the twin 1998 bombings of US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, which claimed 224 lives. Four men were convicted in May 2001 for roles in the attack and given life sentences.
US-based investigators temporarily froze assets of dozens of Muslim charity groups following the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks. A US$1 trillion (Ã777 billion) lawsuit filed by relatives of the Sept. 11 victims listed several charities among the defendants, including the Muslim World League and the IIRO Saudi organization. Both groups denied any links to the plotters.
"Lies! All lies!"
US authorities have been cautious to avoid stepping too hard on Saudi Arabia, one of the key allies in the region. Instead, Saudi leaders have been allowed to announce their own reforms - including tighter controls on benevolent groups and statements against Islamic extremists.
But there's much less sway on curbing Saudi promotion of Wahhabism - named after an 18th century scholar, Muhammad ibn Abdel-Wahhab, who encouraged a return to a "purified" form of the faith based on its original principles. Radical Muslims have reinterpreted Wahhabism to justify hard-line beliefs and violence against perceived enemies of Islam. With Wahhabi Islam "you're basically teaching theology that is very close to jihad theology," said former U.N. investigator Comras. "There is a line that has been crossed and many have crossed that line."
This article starring:
FAHD AL HARBI
International Islamic Relief Organization
International Islamic Relief Organization
Jemaah Islamiyah
Muslim World League
World Assembly of Muslim Youth
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/07/2005 12:00:25 AM ||
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#1
I think a just-lit light bulb would be a good pic for this story.
How about a baseball player swinging for the fence with the word "CLUE" burned into the front of the bat?
TEHRAN: Iran accused the United States Sunday of being the world's main supporter of terrorism through its backing of Israel, and shrugged off fresh criticism from Washington as mere sour grapes. Responding to President George Bush's description of Iran as "the world's primary state sponsor of terror" and his pledge to stand by supporters of democracy in the Islamic republic, Hamid Reza Asefi, Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman, said Bush "doesn't have very good advisers".
"America is the biggest supporter of a terrorist regime: Israel. And the one who supports terrorism cannot talk about human rights," he said, also reacting to US Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice's comment that the clerical regime was "something to be loathed". According to Asefi, the recent hardening of the tone from US officials was a case of "bitterness" coinciding with the February 10 anniversary of Iran's Islamic revolution. "For Iranians, these days are full of nice memories and sweetness," Asefi said. "But for Americans, these days are painful because their days of dominating and bullying Iran were brought to an end." The spokesman said Iran was impervious to remarks by Rice who had accused Tehran's "un-elected mullahs" of a dismal human rights record and covering up attempts to build an atom bomb. "Such threats will not have much effect on the Islamic Republic and we will continue our path of sovereignty, independence and saying no to hegemony," said Asefi.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 00:00:00 ||
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#2
Iran's ridiculous statements would be even funnier if not for the fact that I await the broadcasting of these "charges" on the MSM . . .
Posted by: The Doctor ||
02/07/2005 11:28 Comments ||
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#3
"saying no to hegemony" -- Ideally that would be the people of Iran saying "no" to the influence of their un-elected mullahs. Hopefully some of that will occur on February 10.
Posted by: Tom ||
02/07/2005 11:52 Comments ||
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Well, they are shaking in their turbans....
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
Police are hunting for four men who robbed a major remittance center in Damascus and fled with 43 million Syrian pounds in cash Thursday afternoon, an Interior Ministry official said yesterday. The official pointed out that the four-member gang raided Al-Haram Remittance House at Al-Hijaz Area and held up the company's employees and clients, and forced them to hand over all the cash they had. The four entered the house pretending to be clients who wanted to transfer money. They carried briefcases in which they hid weapons, employees of the remittance house said. "One of the robbers began collecting cash from the booths and clients, while another shot twice in the air to terrify us. Everything was over in just 10 minutes, and the gang members fled with millions," said one of the employees. No one was injured during the incident.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 00:00:00 ||
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The constitution does not apply to the Baloch because a majority of Baloch leaders refrained from endorsing the document when parliament approved it in 1973, said Nawab Akbar Bugti, chief of the Bugti tribe, on Monday. Talking to a private television channel, Nawab Bugti said only two of the five members from Balochistan signed the constitution, which was passed by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto's government. He said, "We (the Baloch) are not a signatory to the constitution. We neither voted for it nor we signed it and therefore it does not apply to us." Denying links between the JWP (his party) and the Baloch Liberation Front (BLF), he said the BLF came into being during Zulfikar Bhutto's era, but it was not alone and the BLA and People's Liberation Front were also active.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 9:34:37 PM ||
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#1
*hic*
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/07/2005 22:05 Comments ||
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From the Beeb. If true, it should be interesting to see how Hamas and IJ react, let alone Hizbollah.
Israeli and Palestinian leaders will sign a truce on Tuesday to end four years of fighting, reports say. The deal will be agreed when Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon meets Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas for talks in Egypt on Tuesday, sources say. Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said a mutual truce would follow the summit, the highest-level talks between the two sides since the intifada began in 2000. An unnamed Israeli official confirmed the statement.
#4
So let me get this straight. Bush overthrows the Taliban and they now have a democratically elected government. Bush overthrows Hussein and the Iraqis will soon have a democratically elected government. Bush refuses to deal with Arafat, who then croaks, and now the Palestinians have a democratically elected government and, for the first time, a legitimate shot at achieving peace with Israel and their own state. Bush gives a SOTU address that calls on other tyrannical regimes, including two of our best "friends" in the region, to introduce democratic reforms, giving hope to millions for the first time. The Arab street hates us why? The left in this country and Europe calls Bush a Nazi and war-monger why? The SOTU and the Inaugural address were preachy and over-the-top why? Am I missing something? If the Arab world ever had a Mount Rushmore, they would be carving President Bush's mug on there in about 50 years.
Posted by: Tibor ||
02/07/2005 18:54 Comments ||
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#5
These guys need to knock off this truce talk and start discussing a permanent cessation of hostilities. A "truce" is generally considered to be a temporary thing.
Louisiana National Guard holds nation's first Carnival parade
CAMP LIBERTY, Iraq - Louisiana soldiers donned purple, green and gold and climbed onto Army trucks transformed into floats for an early Mardi Gras celebration Sunday, parading through this base west of Baghdad and pelting troops with colorful beads, coins and candies in true New Orleans style.
Their parade ended at the mess hall, where they danced to Zydeco music and were served chicken and sausage gumbo, red beans and rice and their first cold beer in four months. The beer, donated by Anheuser Busch Companies, was for Super Bowl parties, but commanders decided to combine the celebrations.
The climax of the New Orleans Mardi Gras celebrations usually falls on the Tuesday before Ash Wednesday, the beginning of Lent. Mardi Gras in French means "Fat Tuesday." Many soldiers in Iraq get Sundays off, if their duties allow, so it made sense to hold the parade early.
Uniform regulations were suspended for a few hours as soldiers donned jester caps, feathered masks, capes and lots and lots of beads.
"You can't have all war and no play. You have to live for another day," Col. John Angelloz, the deputy commander of the 256th Brigade, rhymed in his Louisiana accent.
As the parade of 10 military vehicles, covered in streamers and posters, snaked its way through the base, stunned soldiers from other units couldn't help but smile as they were showered in bright, shiny beads, plastic cups and candy.
Krewe of Bonaparte, which organizes one of the main parades in Lafayette, La., collected or donated more than 300 boxes of beads, masks and decorations after one the soldiers' relatives, Kim Clay, made an appeal on a Louisiana radio station, said Command Sgt. Major Homer Stelly.
Clay's employer, High Pressure Integrity Inc. of Broussard, La., agreed to pay the postage to mail it all to Iraq.
But from the costumes on hand Sunday, it was clear that many of the soldiers had brought their Mardi Gras best with them when they were deployed.
"You can take the brigade out of Louisiana," said Maj. John-Michael Wells, 36, of New Orleans. "But you can't take Louisiana out of the brigade."
#1
Sherry, as a New Orleanian I thank you for the post. The sombre side is that the 256th has lost 18 men in the last 60 days, including five young men from Houma, a relatively small town south of New Orleans. (They were part of the crew of the Bradley that was catastrophically destroyed by a very large IED.)
Posted by: Matt ||
02/07/2005 16:01 Comments ||
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And tomorrow we're gonna throw one helluva party in their honor.
Posted by: Matt ||
02/07/2005 16:24 Comments ||
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#3
Well, Matt -- then I'll be with you at that party!! Tip one for me in their honor -- I've caught a few beads in my lifetime. I know of Houma and growing up in a small town, know of the deep hurt this does to a community.
I'm always so amazed at the creativity of this younger generation. Throughout the years, there have always been talk, "would these kids stand up if they had to?" Not only are they standing up, but they are standing tall, and deserve all the fun they can conjure.
#4
Agreed. One of the really positive stories of the war that doesn't get much press is that another generation of young Americans has been tested, and has passed that test literally with flying colors. They're not only incredibly brave; they're incredibly competent.
Posted by: Matt ||
02/07/2005 16:38 Comments ||
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#5
Many of these kids are MTV brats, raised by TV and video games... and they have performed so courageously and with so much focus it is stunning to me.
And I wholeheartly agree this has been completely under reported by the media too preoccupied with covering Teddy "swim for it" Kennedy
#6
I thought the five soldiers were from Thibodeaux and not Houma.
Anyway, the reports I've read are that the 256th has been doing a stand-up job over there, especially in the Mosul/Kirkuk area.
BTW, for those who don't know, I live in Lafayette and work in Broussard; thanks for posting this article.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
02/07/2005 17:51 Comments ||
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#7
Phil, my recollection is Houma, but I may be wrong. How about we compromise on "the Houma-Thibodeaux area"? The Times Picayune has had a good series of article on the 256th.
Posted by: Matt ||
02/07/2005 18:25 Comments ||
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#8
You mean the Times-Picayune has actually written something interesting?
I'm not used to the idea of a worthwhile newspaper in this state...
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
02/07/2005 19:53 Comments ||
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#9
Normally the TP for national and international news just reprints articles from the NYT, the LA Times and the Washington Post, which chaps me no end, but they actually sent a live person over to cover the 256th.
Posted by: Matt ||
02/07/2005 22:29 Comments ||
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#10
They're doing actual reporting?
I'll have to check it out.
(BTW, this isn't just a complaint I have about the T-P; there seems to be a severe shortage of decent investigative reporting these days, when it should be in a golden age...)
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
02/07/2005 23:05 Comments ||
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#2
Your wish is granted:
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/29/906/400/bush_mud.jpg
Posted by: Tom ||
02/07/2005 14:26 Comments ||
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#3
the National Guard member is VERY lucky to only be DEMOTED...I thought she would be thrown out of the service. Again military court martial process.
Andrea
Posted by: andrea jackson ||
02/07/2005 14:34 Comments ||
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#4
Just some folks ready to go home and who had seen too many episodes of MASH. No big deal.
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/07/2005 15:33 Comments ||
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#6
THAT WAS SOOOO WRONG TOM! Almost lost something there. Naw Andrea they probably gave her a suspended demotion for exposing boobs. It's conduct unbecoming but it's not like she was showing them to prisoners "Oh my icky boobs!" I wouldn't want my daughter to do this but come on people they were having a going away party and things got out of hand. The bigger question here is who won the mud wrestling compe TIT ion?
#8
I dunno bro's, looks like this one might be a bullshitter. For instance, I don't remember seeing three females in the same unit look quite that good. Then again, I am in the Corps.
#9
On second look, I guess I'm wrong. I had faith that no one was stupid enough to take pix of "questionable conduct" & leak it to the press after abu much ado. Stupid me.
#10
I am so glad that I have the only copy of a pic of me, after a round in the dunk tank, at a base 4th of July bash. Tee-shirt, over bikini, since you ask. All garmets and self very wet
I also had faith that pics of stupid military blowing off steam would not be leaked to a tab.
#12
You can bet the Muslim holy warriors will be going on and on about GI's defiling Muslim soil. Even as Muslims do whatever they want on American soil.
... The partial results, from some polling centers in 13 of Iraq's 18 provinces, showed that the Shi'ite alliance had around 2.3 million votes, with the Kurds winning around 1.1 million and a bloc led by interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi on around 620,000. ...
Posted by: ed ||
02/07/2005 11:56:03 AM ||
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#1
Heh.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
02/07/2005 13:10 Comments ||
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Kurds are List #130
Sistani Shi'ite List is #169
PM Allawi List is #285
Assyrian Christians are #204
Commies are #324
and the Constitutional Monarchists are #133
#6
I forget who he's spying for this week? DOD, Iran, Kurds, ?
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/07/2005 14:15 Comments ||
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Hard to say, but you'd better keep one hand on your wallet when you're around him.
Posted by: Tom ||
02/07/2005 14:17 Comments ||
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So, was the trashing him (Chalabi} a ruse, or was it real? Fred... You know we could place bets on this one... Better point spread than the superbowl!!! {SNICKER}
#10
Chalabi has a reputation for financial trickery and, its true that in Iraq a lot of people give him the nicknam 'the thief'
however,
1. Chalabi's financial reputation is based largely on his conviction of fraud by a Jordanian court. We don't know if the conviction is for a real crime or for just doing business as normal in Jordanian prior to Saddam paying the Jordanians to convict him (this latter is Chalabi's story)
2. In Iraq, being called a thief is not all bad -- some people use it as a term of endearment see this site for the story of the maid and the thief
http://www.bookrags.com/ebooks/5242/120.html
#11
i dont think hes got a real chance of becoming PM - Finance minister Mehdi, Dawa leader Jafari, and Sistanis pal Sharistani are all angling for that spot. Might get into the cabinet though.
#12
WHO GIVE A SHIITE ABBOUT IRAK POLITX SCCREEEEEW YOU BASTARD INDIANNNNS OR RUSSKY JEWS. GO BACK TO YOUR MASTURBATE YOUR COUSIN PASTORAL LANDS .........................IF YOU ARE NOT IN USA ARMY YOUR C0MMENTS ARE IRRELEVANT
Sorry, Slovo, but points have to be deducted for:
1) being unable to unlock the caps key
2) using the spelling "Irak"
3) being unclear as to what you mean by "Indians"...the Native Americans, or inhabitants of the subcontinent
4) what the hell is a "cousin pastoral land", anyway?
5) repeated use of the word "Jew" in a slur
6) inability to spell the word "wheelchair"
Now, realizing that Slovo may be from a particularily illiterate part of Greater Serbia, I am impressed that he managed to spell "masturbate" correctly. I'm sure it's a word very important to him.
WE WILL MAKE YOU CUT YOUR HAIR, FIND A NICE GIRL, BUY A CAR AND THEN A HOUSE, SETTLE DOWN, RAISE A CHILD OR TWO, AND PLAN A RETIREMENT WITH MERRIL LYNCH.
COMMENTS ARE IRRELEVENT. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED...
With a hero who gave his life for the elections, a revived national anthem blaring from car stereos and a greater willingness to help police, the public mood appears to be moving more clearly against the insurgency in Iraq, political and security officials say.
In the week since national elections, police and Iraqi National Guardsmen say that they have received more tips from the public, resulting in more arrests and greater effectiveness in their efforts to weaken the violent insurgency rocking the country.
None of the officials said they believed the violence was over. An attack Sunday on a police station in Mahawil, 50 miles south of Baghdad, left 22 policemen and National Guardsmen and 14 attackers dead, the Associated Press reported. The incident was a bloody end to a day in which at least nine other Iraqis were reported slain, and a U.S. soldier was killed and two others were wounded north of the capital. Four Egyptian engineers were kidnapped and two insurgent groups issued statements threatening to kill an Italian journalist who was taken hostage on Friday.
But officials in Baghdad said a relative lull in violence in the capital has fueled the sense that something has fundamentally changed since the vote. A change of attitudes in Baghdad could make a crucial difference in the battle against the insurgency, and a buoyed sense of civic pride is already beginning to change the way the public treats the police, authorities say. "They saw what we did for them in the election by providing safety, and now they understand this is their army and their sons," said Sgt. Haider Abudl Heidi, a National Guardsman wearing a flak jacket at a checkpoint in Baghdad.
Reports from Iraqis reflect a similar shift in attitudes in large areas of the north and south, although authorities acknowledged that in some parts of the country, people remain hostile to the emerging Iraqi authority and supportive, to varying degrees, of the insurgents.
The insurgency began to emerge soon after the toppling of Saddam Hussein, on a tide of anger over the U.S. occupation. But in interviews over the past week, officials and Baghdad residents cited what they called a renewed nationalist pride since the elections that they said may be dampening anti-American sentiment, and may be starting to dispel Iraqi tolerance and support for the insurgents. "I feel very optimistic that things will change for the better because of the strong turnout in the elections. That reinforced our faith and gave us a sense of change for the better," said Ali Jassem, 32, the manager of a bakery in Baghdad.
"You can feel the situation has changed," said Haider Abdul Hussein, 30, a pharmacy owner. "People seem to linger on the street longer. You can feel the momentum, the sense of optimism."
Part of that mood change is credited to Abdul Amir, Iraq's newest national hero. On election day, Amir, 30, a policeman in Baghdad, noticed a man walking toward a polling station who appeared to be carrying something heavy under his coat. Amir wrapped his arms around the man and dragged him away from the crowd. A belt of explosives wrapped around the man blew both men to shreds.
Members of Iraq's interim cabinet have touted Amir as a symbol of national pride. Newspapers have been filled with stories about him. A statue is being planned, and the elementary school that served as the polling station where he died may change its name to honor him. "It's too simple to say what he did was heroic," said Najat Abdul Sattar, the headmistress of the school, where bright-eyed children study in dim concrete classrooms just yards from where Amir was killed. "What more honor could we give the man?"
"When people saw what he did, they said we will not let those violent people intimidate us, and they went to vote in even greater numbers. Where there were three or four in line, after the blast there were 30 or 40," said Mohammed Hadithi, who lives near the school.
The change has also been evident in the recent popularity of "My Homeland," a mournful song that was banned by Hussein but has been revived as a national anthem. Iraqis sing along to the paean to Iraqi glory and nationalism as it blares from radios and from speakers propped up outside storefronts in the capital.
Adil Abdul-Mahdi, the interim finance minister and a powerful figure in the Shiite-led coalition expected to dominate Iraq's new National Assembly, contends that the elections created a sense of solidarity that helped dissolve an Iraqi aversion to trusting neighbors, a habit ingrained during the Hussein era. "People know their neighbors now. They know they are on the same front as their neighbors -- they all went out and voted," he said in an interview Saturday. "I think this has uncovered the terrorists and insurgents. They are less legitimate now."
The elections also appear to have renewed public confidence in Iraqi security forces, who were on the front lines of a largely successful effort to protect 5,000 polling centers from violence. In the weeks before and since the Jan. 30 elections, Iraqi forces have claimed increasing success in arresting ringleaders of the insurgency.
Security forces announced Sunday that they were holding a former Iraqi general who they said helped finance insurgent bombings and plotted attacks. The general, Khamis Masin Farhan Ugaydi, 51, was captured Dec. 20 in the town of Baiji, about 120 miles north of Baghdad, the Associated Press reported. Officials did not explain the delay in announcing the arrest. "We are arresting more terrorists than ever before," said Iraqi National Guard Sgt. Kathem Hanish in Baghdad. "The people are coming to us with information. They are cooperating."
At the station where Amir had worked in the Yarmouk neighborhood of Baghdad, policemen said they were encouraged by the reaction to their colleague's heroism. "It was a turning point," Capt. Muthana Latif said. "People saw that there weren't any Americans or foreigners there. Only policemen. The suicide bomber was just after Iraqis."
"Policemen did not have a role in this country," police Col. Katham Abbas Hamza said. "Now we are considered number one guardians of the country."
Insurgents have frequently targeted Iraqi security forces, branding them traitors for working with the Americans and propping up the U.S.-backed government. At least 1,300 have been killed in the last six months, according to U.S. officials.
On a board at the Yarmouk police station, the daily shift notices are penciled in next to a handwritten list of funerals: Patrolman Bilal Jassim, shot; Patrolman Mushtaq Talib, ambushed in patrol car; Patrolman Luay Ubaid, killed by roadside bomb. The list has now grown to nine names, including Amir's. "But if we opened up the recruiting right now, we would be swamped," Latif said.
In Baiji, Iraqi forces arrested 10 people in a raid on Sunday, without triggering an angry public reaction. "Even though he was taking my son away, he was so nice," an 80-year-old woman who identified herself as Um Younis said about a hooded Iraqi security officer.
"We were surprised because they had very good manners, so polite, and respected everybody," said Anwar Zuhair Khalaf, 38, whose 21-year-old brother was among those arrested. "They asked me, 'Where are the women's rooms?' and when we pointed at their rooms, they did not enter these rooms even though we have a AK-47 in one of these rooms."
This article starring:
KHAMIS MASIN FARHAN UGAIDI
Iraqi Insurgency
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/07/2005 12:57:08 AM ||
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very interesting.
and kudos to the WaPo for its close and subtle coverage.
Posted by: Mac Suirtain ||
02/07/2005 11:47 Comments ||
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"Where are the womenâs rooms?â and when we pointed at their rooms, they did not enter these rooms even though we have a AK-47 in one of these rooms."
LOL ! I'd gladly take that schmoe's AK-47 and thus lose his (temporary!) gratitude to us for showing good manners. A good trade, in my opinion.
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
02/07/2005 12:11 Comments ||
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Funny thing - freedom. Too bad the Dems don't understand it. Maybe, because many of em don't actually believe in it (for us small fry anyway).
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
02/07/2005 12:29 Comments ||
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So much for the idea that Arabs don't "get" democracy, civil rights, etc.
#6
The WaPo is optimistic today and its been optimistic a few other times. In between the optimistic reports are pessimistic reports (yesterday's WaPo report was 'Islamism is baaaack').
The WaPo doesn't seem to realize that the 'feel' of the news is utterly dependant on which team is doing the report.
EFL One of the robbers who carried out the Rs2.2 million robbery at the National Bank of Pakistan (NBP) in Swat has told investigators that the robbery was carried out with the aim of acquiring money to buy necessary military hardware required to attack army troops in Malakand Agency. He also revealed that suspects in the robbery case were affiliated with banned militant organisation, Jaish-e-Muhammad and included veterans of the Afghan and Kashmir jihad as well as newly-trained militants. The armed robbery took place on December 3, 2004 but Malakand police chased the militants and killed and arrested several after a pitched battle on the border between Swat and Dir districts. Investigators probing the robbery case have revealed that one of the arrested militants told the joint investigation team that the robbery was carried out to raise money to buy horses so that military equipment could be easily moved around the region. "Our amir [the militant did not name him] told us that every possible effort should be made to involve the army in Malakand so that a situation similar to South Waziristan would be created and we would be able to launch an attack on the army," a police investigator quoted an arrested militant. "We are not at war with the Pakistani people and the police; our war is against the Pakistan army that is fighting the mujahideen on behalf of the United States. We will finish it [the army] before it finishes us."
Investigators told TFT that the arrested militants had revealed that they selected Malakand for their operation because of its difficult terrain and poor communication-system. "Had the money not been recovered and the militants killed and arrested, I think we would have been in serious trouble," an anti-terrorist investigator told TFT. "The militants would have unleashed terrorist activities and the police would not have been able to do much about it. After that, the army would have jumped into the fray in the manner in which it always does, as a 'last resort'." Investigators say the militants have revealed that banned religious group, Tehrik Nifaz-e-Shariah Muhammadi, was providing the ground for the militants readying to launch an operation in Malakand.
The investigators also revealed details about the militants who killed two Aga Khan Foundation Health Service officers in Chitral on December 27, 2004. "The killers first met in Pule-Charkhi jail Kabul after being arrested by anti-Taliban Northern Alliance forces in 2001," said an investigator. "After being released, they planned to attack the office to drive the foundation out of Chitral. We are looking for Maulana Muhammad Khalid, the chief of the militants and his son, who are still at large," he added. A senior police official in Mingora city told TFT that Swat district had recently seen a "great concentration" of militants. "This was expected to happen because Swat is the old transit route for Afghan and Kashmir mujahideen who receive training in Mansehra and Balakot camps," he said. Intelligence agencies' suspicions about the relocation of militants fleeing military operations in South Waziristan Agency to non-tribal areas are growing and a source said Malakand Agency, Swat, Upper and Lower Dir districts were becoming a homeland for militants.
This article starring:
MAULANA MUHAMAD KHALID
Tehrik Nifaz-e-Shariah Muhammadi
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
02/07/2005 2:06:47 AM ||
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#1
Looks like time to conjure up Winston Almighty Churchill and revive the Malakand Field Force.
Not long ago, Abdul Qadeer Khan used to walk into a wooded park across the street from his mansion in Pakistan's capital city and feed the monkeys who lived there. That was when he was a national hero and a multimillionaire, owner of a fleet of vintage cars and properties from Dubai to Timbuktu. But Khan, 68, no longer crosses the street to feed the monkeys. These days he is almost never seen outside. His house, which lies just over a grassy hillside from Islamabad's King Faisal Mosque, is modern, squat and dark, its facade concealed behind a vine-covered wall. To the casual observer, the house provides just one clue to its owner's sinister profession. At the end of his driveway sits a large jasmine bush, trimmed into an odd but unmistakable shape: that of a mushroom cloud.
When President George W. Bush identified the main threats to global security in his State of the Union address last week, the name A.Q. Khan was not on the list. In some respects, that's not surprising. Khan is under house arrest, his every move monitored by Pakistani government agents. He is said to be in failing health, and will probably live out his days a recluse. And yet one year after Khan appeared on Pakistani television and confessed to selling some of that country's most prized secrets, the world is only beginning to uncover the extent of his treachery--and comprehend how one man did more to destabilize the planet than did many of the world's worst regimes.
For more than a decade, Khan, the father of Pakistan's nuclear bomb, masterminded a vast, clandestine and hugely profitable enterprise whose mission boiled down to this: selling to a rogues' gallery of nations the technology and equipment to make nuclear weapons. Among Khan's customers were Iran and North Korea--two countries identified by Bush as members of the "axis of evil," whose nuclear ambitions present the U.S. with two of its biggest foreign policy quandaries. At a moment when the international community is focused on a potential showdown with Iran, a TIME investigation has revealed that Khan's network played a bigger role in helping Tehran and Pyongyang than had been previously disclosed. U.S. intelligence officials believe Khan sold North Korea much of the material needed to build a bomb, including high-speed centrifuges used to enrich uranium and the equipment required to manufacture more of them. Officials are worried--but have not yet seen proof--that Khan gave those countries rudimentary but effective designs for nuclear warheads. Officials in Washington and at the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in Vienna say they suspect that Iran may have bought the same set of goods--centrifuges and possibly weapons designs--from Khan in the mid-1990s. Although the IAEA says so far it has not found definitive proof that Iran has a weapons program, its investigators told TIME that Tehran has privately confirmed at least 13 meetings from 1994 to 1999 with representatives of Khan's network.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/07/2005 12:25:15 AM ||
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"But Pakistani sources close to Khan say Musharraf backed away from arresting the scientist out of fear that Khan would finger senior members of the Pakistani military and security services as having been complicit in nuclear trafficking. "Everyone got a cut," says a Khan acquaintance, referring to high-ranking military officers connected with the nuclear program."
And is a president/general a senior member of the Pakistani military services? Perhaps there isn't "room at the top," just an opening for a new salesman.
Posted by: James ||
02/07/2005 1:44 Comments ||
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Exactly James. As I've always said, Khan was selling at the behest of the ISI and Pak army - he was just feeding the monkeys.
#3
At a time of high tensions with India over the disputed region of Kashmir, the event turned Khan into a national hero.
Khan equipped Pakistan with nuclear weapons, which came very close to making Pakistan a nuclear wasteland during periods of tension with India. Some hero.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
02/07/2005 10:44 Comments ||
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made mass martyrdom possible, AP
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/07/2005 10:58 Comments ||
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Among U.S. counterterrorism officials, it is the ultimate nightmare scenario: al-Qaeda detonating a nuclear bomb in a U.S. city. Osama bin Laden says it is a religious duty to obtain a bomb, and most experts believe that if al-Qaeda were to succeed, the group wouldn't hesitate to use it. Though building even a crude nuclear weapon is time consuming, the wide availability of raw material and scientific expertise means that it is plausible for terrorists someday to get their hands on one. "The simplest nuclear bomb," says Ivan Oelrich, director of the security project at the Federation of American Scientists, "is very simple indeed."
The biggest hurdle is getting the material that causes the nuclear explosion. For a basic nuclear weapon, terrorists would need about 100 lbs. of highly enriched, weapons-grade uranium (HEU).
Fortunately, manufacturing HEU is extremely difficult. Refining it requires vast industrial facilities, top-flight engineers and the kinds of resources available to a government but not to rogue terrorist groups. Unfortunately, many states have already done the hard work, creating 1,800 tons of HEU that is housed at research facilities, weapons depots and other storage sites in as many as 24 countries, according to William Potter, director of nonproliferation studies at the Monterey Institute of International Studies. Of greatest concern is the more than 300 tons of HEU in the former Soviet Union. Some of the material may have already gone missing: since 1991, there have been seven attempted thefts reported of small amounts of bomb-grade material and more than 700 reported thefts of unrefined nuclear material. In Chelyabinsk, Russia, in 1998, Russian intelligence uncovered a plot by employees at a nuclear facility in the region to smuggle out 40 lbs. of HEU for sale on the black market.
With sufficient fissile material in hand, a trained engineer could build a crude device without too much difficulty. The most basic design is that of the Hiroshima bomb, which fired two pieces of HEU at each other from opposite ends of an artillery tube. The bomb could be assembled at a basic machine shop and would fit in the back of a truck. If smuggled into the U.S. and detonated in a major metropolitan area, such a weapon could kill hundreds of thousands.
Not everyone believes the danger is imminent. Last August, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov dismissed concerns about the security of Russian HEU as "just a myth." However big the threat, critics say President Bush has yet to tackle it head-on.
"The Bush Administration has failed to declare war on nuclear terrorism," says nuclear expert Graham Allison, a former Clinton official. The Bush Administration is expected to earmark about $400 million this year for securing nuclear material in the former Soviet Union. Over the past two and a half years, international teams of nuclear experts have retrieved more than 230 lbs. of bomb-grade uranium from such countries as Uzbekistan, Bulgaria, Romania, Libya and the Czech Republic. But at its current pace, Allison charges, the effort to secure all Russian nuclear weapons and fissile material will not be complete until 2020. Critics of the Administration say the U.S. should pressure Russian President Vladimir Putin to get more aggressive about securing nuclear material in his country. "We're in a race between cooperation and catastrophe," says former Senator Sam Nunn, who helped create the 13-year-old U.S.-Russian program to destroy Russia's surplus HEU before it falls into the wrong hands.
The world may not have much time. In the months before Sept. 11, bin Laden and associates met in Afghanistan with a Pakistani nuclear scientist, Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmoud. At one meeting, according to an account made public by the White House, a bin Laden associate indicated he had nuclear material and wanted to know how to use it to make a weapon. Mahmoud provided information about nuclear-weapons programs, the White House said. In an interview with the Associated Press, Mahmoud's son said his father had rebuffed bin Laden. The bad news is that he is surely still trying.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/07/2005 12:12:07 AM ||
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"The Bush Administration has failed to declare war on nuclear terrorism," says nuclear expert Graham Allison, a former Clinton official.
Yeah, sure Graham. When Slick Willie was on the job our nation sure was safe. Uh-huh.
Ok, maybe they'll give them pills instead of joints, but interesting from a medical marijuana point of view.... An army statement said the military medical corps and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem would begin treating victims of post-traumatic stress - commonly known as shell shock - with THC, the active ingredient in the cannabis plant. It said the treatment would begin on an experimental basis. "The use of THC as part of the treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder was approved by military and civilian committees relevant to the subject," the statement said.
An IDF spokesman said treatment would be given to both conscript soldiers and reservists. Since September 2000, the Israeli military has been conducting day to day operations against the Palestinian terror infrastructure in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. During that time many soldiers have been treated for combat stress following service at military checkpoints and in military operations. The IDF continues to ban the use of all drugs on a leisure basis, including cannabis derivatives marijuana and hashish.
Posted by: Desert Blondie ||
02/07/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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We Baptist always have a strong ice tea with extra lemon.
Turkmen and Arab political parties in the Iraqi city of Kirkuk have accused Kurds of fixing the result of provincial elections held on the 30 January. Official results for the election held on the same day as Iraq's national vote have not yet been released. But Turkmen and Arab parties in the northern city on Sunday said that Kurds from other parts of the country flooded the city on election day to inflate the community's vote. According to local Kurdish media, the Kurdish list expects to get about 63% of the vote for the Tamim provincial council which includes Kirkuk. "The elections lack credibility because of the major violations and the absence of international observers," a Turkmen candidate for the provincial election, Saad al-Din Arkaj, said after a meeting of Turkmen parties in Kirkuk.
Arkaj said the Iraqi election commission should review the whole vote count and investigate the complaints of Arab and Turkmen parties. "The results fixed by the Kurds will cause a catastrophe," he warned. "The Turkmen cannot accept this deep laid plot through which the Kurds want to join Kirkuk to Kurdistan." An Arab candidate for the provincial council also called the election organisation a "plot". Abd al-Rahman Munshid al-Assi said thousands of Kurds had been brought to the city from Sulaimaniya and Arbil provinces on 30 January "to vote a second time in Kirkuk".
"They are aiming to attach Kirkuk to Kurdistan and we Arabs and Turkmen reject this," he said after a meeting of Arab and Turkmen parties on Saturday night. "We are examining all options as we will not have a real presence on the provincial council. Two thirds of the seats will go to Kurds," al-Assi predicted. Kurdish leaders deny any vote fraud. Displaced Kurds "Unfortunately, the Arabs and Turkmen do not understand democracy," Rajkar Ali, a candidate for the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) for the election, said. "We are not seeking to wipe out the presence of our Arab and Turkmen friends. We want to win back the rights that were taken from the Kurds," he said. A decision brokered in January by the US selected interim Iraqi government gave tens of thousands of displaced Kurds the right to vote in Kirkuk, effectively tipping the balance to the Kurdish community and drawing the ire of neighbouring Turkey.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 00:00:00 ||
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Whining is better than shooting. Complaining to the Election Commission, thus acknowledging their authority, is best of all. At this moment I am extremely proud to be American.
#2
That last sentence in the post text speaks volumes, but so do two short paragraphs that Fred left out:
"Sunni and Shia Arab parties withdrew from the local election in Tamim province in protest."
"Former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein is said to have sought to Arabise Kirkuk by moving Kurds away and bringing in Arabs from other parts of the country."
Posted by: Tom ||
02/07/2005 8:16 Comments ||
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Love the al Jazeera euphemisms. "sought to Arabise Kirkuk by moving Kurds away" is technically true if the destination were mass graves.
Posted by: ed ||
02/07/2005 8:54 Comments ||
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"Sunni and Shia Arab parties withdrew from the local election in Tamim province in protest."
Yeah, the vote was "rigged" all right, but not by the Kurds.
The government has ordered legal action against prayer leaders who criticise President Pervez Musharraf's position as army chief and bring up other political issues in their sermons. The Interior Ministry has directed the home secretaries of the four provinces, the chief secretary of the Northern Areas, and the chief commissioner of the federal capital to compile reports about clerics who discuss politics and make anti-government speeches in their Friday sermons, government sources told Daily Times on Sunday. The reports will be used to make legal cases against the clerics. The Interior Ministry also directed the authorities concerned to particularly identify imams appointed by Auqaf departments and who draw their salary from the government but who still make speeches against the government in their sermons, the sources said. The provinces have been asked to take stringent action, including register criminal cases, against imams who "ruin the sanctity" of mosques and politicise Friday congregations, the sources added.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 00:00:00 ||
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This is one of those thing you kinda sorta know — if it's not now in operation, then it will be as soon as the world's attention is turned. The worms in that can are big and fat and slimy: Perv will be totally discredited because there's no way he wouldn't know about it and there's no way it could proceed with his approval after A.Q. was publicly busted last year. We go from assuming there's no alternative to Perv to realizing that Perv is part of the Bad Guys, playing a particularly dirty game. That leads to the perfectly reasonable assumption that no Pak government can be trusted, certainly not with nukes, but also not with Balochistan and NWFP. Or Punjab. Or Sind. He's actually gambling is entire country on the ummah, a poor bet at best. The only hole card he's got is Hafiz Saeed and the nukes, and the nukes wouldn't last long. If he actually managed to get them off, the consequences would be horrific.
While the world is focused on a possible showdown over the Iranian nuclear programme, a recent investigation has revealed that Pakistan's AQ Khan network played a larger role in helping Tehran and Pyongyang than had been previously disclosed, TIME magazine reported on Sunday. According to US intelligence officials, the magazine said, Dr Khan sold North Korea much of the necessary material to build a nuclear bomb, including high-speed centrifuges used to enrich uranium and the equipment required to manufacture more of them. They, along with officials at the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), also believe that Iran may have bought the same set of goods — centrifuges and possibly weapons designs — from Khan in the mid-1990s. Although the IAEA says it has so far not found any definitive proof of an Iranian weapons programme, its investigators have revealed that Tehran privately confirmed at least 13 meetings (from 1994 to 1999) with representatives of the Khan network. Many fear that these disclosures represent the tip of the iceberg, given that the father of the Pakistani nuclear bomb travelled the world for more than a decade, visiting countries in Africa, Central Asia and the Middle East.
US officials are currently investigating the possibility that Khan's network sold nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries, the magazine quotes a Pakistani defence official as saying. He also confirmed that the US has submitted questions to Khan on whether North Korea and Iran sold such equipment to third parties. The report said that although Washington has no concrete evidence that any of Khan's clients have passed along nuclear technology and expertise to terrorist groups, they cannot rule out the possibility that Khan did business with Osama Bin Laden's Qaeda network. US officials point to the fact that several members of Pakistan's military and intelligence establishment, which worked closely with Khan in his role as the government's top nuclear scientist, are known to sympathise with the Qaeda group.
This fear is compounded by the fact that colleagues close to Khan claim he was driven by a devout faith and a burning belief that a nexus existed between returning Islam to its former glory and Muslim nations acquiring nuclear capability. The report goes on to say that if Washington discovers that Khan sold nuclear warhead blueprints to Iran, as he did with Libya, it find immediate justification to ratchet up its charges that Tehran's nuclear research has a military purpose.
Indeed, such a US move might even gain acceptance in the international community given that sources close to the Khan Research Laboratories in Islamabad have claimed that Khan's illicit network of suppliers and middlemen is still operational, the magazine reported. "Nothing has changed," TIME quoted one of Khan's former aides as saying. "The hardware is still available, and the network hasn't stopped". Sources close to the lab have also revealed that 16 cylinders of uranium hexafluoride gas, a critical ingredient for uranium enrichment, are missing from the lab.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 00:00:00 AM ||
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Dangerous thoughts, Fred. The same could be said of Matathir. Wasn't the son (?) of his successor part of the network? He had to be part of it as well.
I never thought that the network was shut down. As I posted last year, it probably is at somewhere between 10 and 25% of its former effectiveness. It was lucrative for Pakistan and serves the goals of many in Dar al Islam from Malaysia to Mauritania. There are people right now working hard to make it bigger and better than before.
#2
The way I see things;
Pakistan was created as the world's only Islamic Republic, a nation whose people formed a nation simply because they were Muslim. The motto of the Pakistani Army is "Jihad in the way of Allah", and since the Army has been the most dominate member of the oligarchy that rules Pakistan, they have done everything they can to assist the Ummah.
After the Soviets left Afghanistan, the Paks and Saudis simply redirected the entire infrastructure of training camps, madrassas and armed Jihadi militias that had been set up for the Afghan Jihad, to other fields of battle, most notably Kashmir. The ISI proxies like Lashkar-e-Taiba trained Jihadis from all over the world, while madrassas like Binori indoctrinated students who then went back home to form the leadership cadre of the various Jihadi and Islamist groups working towards the Caliphate.
The Taliban were assisted in taking over Afghanistan with Saudi money and Pakistani forces, providing a glimpse of what the Khalifah would like like. While this was going on, nuclear technology was sold to brotherly Muslim nations, and traded with North Korea in exhange for long range missiles like the No-Dong, which was rebranded as the Ghauri (A Muslim warlord who invaded India a thousand years ago and brought Islam to the sub-continent).
While Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have problems with Salafist-Jihadists who fight against the state, the raison d'être of the two states is to unify and strengthen the Ummah into a super-power.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
02/07/2005 2:41 Comments ||
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The question that needs to be raised, then, is what do we do about it? And where exactly do other friendly components of the Ummah we've seen over the years like Iran and bin Laden fit into this equation? Are they part of the plan, temporary allies, enemies, or what? And once we determine that, what do we do about it?
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
02/07/2005 3:32 Comments ||
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I think of Iran, Al Qaeda (Salafist-Jihadists), and the Pak/Saudi axis as akin to different mafia families. They do business together and think alike, but they all picture themselves wearing the Jewelled Turban and being surrounded by dancing girls and learned holy men.
As for what should be done, it's questions like that that make me glad i'm not in charge! I would not have chosen to attack Iraq, but now that America and the UK and Australia are there, we will need to concentrate on that for at least a few years.
Using my crude analogy, it looks like America is going to tackle the 'former Soviet client states' mafia (Iran, Syria, North Korea), while going easy on the 'cold war allies' mafia of Riyadh and Islamabad.
It isn't practical to take both on at the same time, so I think the latter will be safe to continue their current activities, as long as they make a few cosmetic reforms and speak some comforting rhetoric.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
02/07/2005 4:19 Comments ||
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We could do it multilaterally, Israel/Syria, India/Pakistan and US/MK.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
02/07/2005 7:34 Comments ||
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My 2 cents is that CIA, MI6 or whoever (you know, the guys with the Death Ray) should throw a monkey wrench into the works by sabotaging shipments, providinging false bomb plans, causing "work accidents", and so on all in an effort to raise the cost of the programs to unsustainable levels.
#7
Pakistan was created as the world's only Islamic Republic, a nation whose people formed a nation simply because they were Muslim. The motto of the Pakistani Army is "Jihad in the way of Allah", and since the Army has been the most dominate member of the oligarchy that rules Pakistan, they have done everything they can to assist the Ummah.
Let's not forget the conceit of taking the name "Land of the Pure".
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
02/07/2005 9:33 Comments ||
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Pakistan was created as the world's only Islamic Republic
Pakistan was founded by whiskey drinking secularist Jinnah as a refuge for the Muslims of India, of whatever degree of religiosity. Unifiying the Ummah was emphatically NOT Pakistans Raison d'tre, at least not at the beginning, for the best of its leadership. Maybe that dream has failed, and its too late for Pakistan to survive as anything else, but lets NOT make such a huge decision on the basis of anything less than a complete view of the subcontinents history, and with a full view of Pakistani society, (yes, nuggets are fun, but theyre not the best nutrition).
I wouldnt "trust" Perv farther than I can watch him, but our policy in general should not be based on trust, not even for folks we like.
For now the best thing seems to be to hold Perv accountable for specific behavior. Whether democracy is a reasonable strategy i dont know - it has a lot to do with whether the old secular "left" in Pakistan has anything to offer besides corruption - even RB hasnt made that clear, and RB (thanks Paul, Fred, Dan) has the best coverage of Pakistan ive seen anywhere.
And I dont know that anyone has an alternative. If anyone thinks Rummys "Army youve got" can manage occupying even a significant part of Pakistan theire loonier than any of the nutballs we read about in the Urdu press. The occupation army of choice seems to be India's, and I dont really think theyre very interested in the job assigned to them. It would be a horrible mess even for them - they would have few friends on the ground in Pakistan, even among the secularists. It would in all likelihood shake the Indian state to its foundations - I cant see them doing it short of the most profound existential threat, which simply isnt there yet. And probably wont be. Despite the Khan network, the Pakistani state has NOT gotten on well with Iran - the Afghan civil war was largely fought between Paki proxies on one side and Iran/Russia/India proxies on the other. Without support from IRan, Pakland is isolated from the Muslim heartland (esp now with a US ally in power in Kabul - the secularist-authoritarian-russophile leaders of central asia have no love for Pakistan. A regime change in Iran would leave Pakistan even further isolated. That would, youd think, be an argument for India to support us on Iran. That they dont (have they?) is another sign that they dont take "Pakistan as sword arm of the Ummah" very seriously.
#9
Note also - Pakland has supported the jihadis in Afghanistan, and then in Kashmir - dominance in the Afghan hinterland, and the situation in Kashmir are strategic priorities for ANY Pakistani state, whether Salafist, sufist, whiskey drinking or whatever. That KSA has funded that shows KSAs religious motivation, NOT Paklands. Arguably it looks more like the Pakis have used religion to scam money out of KSA for local Paki interests.
Im not denying that there has been serious Salafist penetration of the ISI, the Pak army, and other parts of Pak society, but to argue that Paki is a Salafist state based on their quests for Kashmir and their goal of dominance in Afghanistan, this worldly strategic objectives, is to make ANY Pakistani leadership appear jihadi.
#10
The FIRST thing that has to happen is that we Christians have to stop apologizing to the muslims - or anyone else for that matter - about our beliefs. We should not necessarily be "in your face" antagonistic, but we should NEVER apologize. It makes us look weak and encourages the muslims to treat us with contempt. Secondly, we need to get serious about our own religion. You don't find that much in churches these days - it's all more a club that people belong to rather than a serious religious experience with Almighty God. After that, nature will take its course. Islamofascism is its own worst enemy - everything is based upon hate, and that can only go so far. The arabs are not creative, only adaptive. Once we quit apologizing, they'll be left in the dust, the world's third-class citizens, by their own behavior. We may need their oil, but we don't need, nor should we accept, their sh$$.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
02/07/2005 16:27 Comments ||
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My understanding or the Pakistan political situation is that there are three power centers: The Army/ISI, the Feudals (who own most of the arable land), and the Islamists. It would make sense for the Islamists to infiltrate the Army and ISI, because then the Feudals position would become untenable. The Feudals probably control 90% plus of the capital in the country, so they can bribe the Army/ISI and Islamists and play them off against each other. Of course the Army and ISI infiltrate and use the Islamists to their own ends. Sounds like a Mexican standoff to me.
#14
Very interesting analyses. But Liberalhawk, do you possibly mean deobandis instead of salafis? I seem to recall that Salafi=Wahabbi=Saudi heresy, whereas Deobandi=Pakistani heresy.
I'd buy that analysis if Pakistan were a closed system. When you toss in the fact that the madrassas that are brainwashing the Paks' youth are wholly owned subsidiaries of the Saudi oil tick monarchy the picture becomes significantly murkier. I'd wager heavily that purchasing control of Pakistan and its nuclear arsenal is a top priority of the jihadi arm of the Saudi royal family.
The situation's laregely hopeless. Jihadis whether in the form of a state or a state-backed group will gain possession of nuclear weapons and in all liklihood use them. Best we can do is slow them down while trying like heck to avoid kicking off WW III. That'll happen soon enough of its own accord.
#17
trailing wife;
There isn't a great deal of difference between Deobandis and Salafists, except the former grew out of the Hanbali school of thought while the latter rejects all other schools of thought. It is an important point though.
Nevertheless, the Taliban were Deobandis and they had the full support of the Saudis, Bin Ladin, Hawali and other Salafis.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
02/07/2005 21:35 Comments ||
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Point taken 11A5S but "standoff" implies some sort of stasis whereas the situation inside Pakistan to me looks a lot more like a steadily growing hardline Islamist influence.
KARACHI: Violence erupted in Mubina Town on Sunday when two groups of students of a religious school fought with each other following a dispute between their two teachers. The police said Maulana Abdul Ghaffar and Maulana Umer, teachers of Madrassa Arabia Islami, had a dispute over some matter that resulted in a fight between their followers. Students pelted vehicles with stones, burnt tyres and blocked traffic. Firing in the air was also reported. The police arrested Maulana Ghaffar and another man. The police registered the case and are investigating.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/07/2005 00:00:00 ||
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Just Islamofascist war games, officer, nothing to be concerned about.
Posted by: Tom ||
02/07/2005 8:43 Comments ||
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#2
I imagine the dispute was over whether a verse in the Koran meant that the Kufr should be killed 'very dead' or just 'quite dead' or something similar.
Baloch nationalists have rejected the government's talks' offer and have resolved to achieve their rights at all costs, Nawab Khair Bux Marri, Baloch nationalist leader, told BBC on Sunday. He said the Baloch leaders had linked the dialogue process to the withdrawal of troops from the province. He described the armed struggle as the only means to achieve the rights of the people of Balochistan. The Baloch leader said the talks would not yield any results because the government was not sincere in its offer and wanted to gain time. Baloch nationalists Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti and Sardar Attaullah Khan Mengal have already made clear that that they would not hold talks with the government unless the government pulled out troops from Sui.
Balochistan is in the throes of an intensifying rebellion by tribesmen demanding a bigger share of the region's natural resources. On Saturday, bomb blasts caused major damage to a train track and a gas pipe. The main railway line between Quetta and the Iranian city of Zahidan was severed for the second time in a week. The Balochistan Liberation Army has said it carried out a number of the previous attacks, including rocket strikes on the Sui gas field.
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The Naseerabad Police detained a Hawaldar of the Defence Security Guards (DSG) and five personnel of the Pakistan Petroleum Ltd (PPL) at Sui on Sunday for the rape of a lady doctor. Those who have been detained are Mohammed Rafiq, Hawaldar of the DSG, Mohammed Khushhal, Umar Farooq, Usman Ali, Asif and Malik Khan. Sources said the detained men had been taken to an undisclosed location and nobody was being allowed to meet them. The police is questioning the previously arrested PPL officials; Manager Sui Gas Field Pervez Jamula, Dr Usman, Dr Mohammed Ali and Afzal Khan, at Saddar Police Station in Dera Murad Jamali.
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
DHAKA: The Bangladesh government has provided armed security to 50 leading citizens, police said on Monday amid a spate of deadly bombings. "We received an order from the Special Branch of police yesterday to provide full-time trained gunmen to 50 of the country's leading intellectuals, lawyers, civil society leaders and politicians," said a Dhaka police spokesman. 
The Irish Republican Army's political ally 
Terrorists must be completely isolated by the global community, believes the Russian President's special envoy on issues of international cooperation in the fight against terrorism and transnational crime, 
Pyongyang, February 5 (KCNA) -- The participants in the meeting for the general march of the Songun revolution saw a performance given by the State Merited Chorus of the Korean People's Army (KPA) at the April 25 House of Culture on Friday. Put on the stage of the performance which began with the immortal revolutionary paean "Song of General Kim Jong Il" were chorus songs including "Our General Is the Best," "Song of a Truck Driver," "Long Journey for the Songun Revolution," "They Will Tell the Story of Soldier's Love," "We Will Never Forget Those Days," "Blue Sky above My Country," "Song of Comradeship," "Let's Advance Faster for Higher Goal" and "Let's Continue Our Revolution under the Banner of Songun." The performers highly praised the undying revolutionary feats of leader Kim Jong Il who has pursued the unique Songun politics noteworthy in history of the Songun revolution and trained the KPA and the Korean people to passionate fighters of the Songun revolution and patriots united in one mind around the Workers' Party of Korea, creating a heroic epic in the struggle to defend socialism and build a great prosperous powerful nation.
A professor who likened World Trade Center victims to a notorious Nazi suggested to a magazine that more terror attacks may be necessary to radicalize Americans to fight the misuse of U.S. power. In an interview Ward Churchill gave with Satya magazine, 
A UN panel investigating corruption in Iraq's oil-for-food programme wants to interrogate one of Saddam Hussein's jailed right-hand men, Tareq Aziz, his lawyer told AFP. Badie Aref Izzat said he expected to visit the former Iraqi deputy prime minister in the coming days and would advise him to demand he be questioned in a foreign country, possibly France.
As investigators continued their probe into the scandal-tainted U.N. 
TEHRAN: Iran accused the United States Sunday of being the world's main supporter of terrorism through its backing of Israel, and shrugged off fresh criticism from Washington as mere sour grapes. Responding to President George Bush's description of Iran as "the world's primary state sponsor of terror" and his pledge to stand by supporters of democracy in the Islamic republic, 
Police are hunting for four men who robbed a major remittance center in Damascus and fled with 43 million Syrian pounds in cash Thursday afternoon, an Interior Ministry official said yesterday. The official pointed out that the four-member gang raided Al-Haram Remittance House at Al-Hijaz Area and held up the company's employees and clients, and forced them to hand over all the cash they had. The four entered the house pretending to be clients who wanted to transfer money. They carried briefcases in which they hid weapons, employees of the remittance house said. "One of the robbers began collecting cash from the booths and clients, while another shot twice in the air to terrify us. Everything was over in just 10 minutes, and the gang members fled with millions," said one of the employees. No one was injured during the incident.
The constitution does not apply to the Baloch because a majority of Baloch leaders refrained from endorsing the document when parliament approved it in 1973, said Nawab 
With a hero who gave his life for the elections, a revived national anthem blaring from car stereos and a greater willingness to help police, the public mood appears to be moving more clearly against the insurgency in Iraq, political and security officials say.
One of the robbers who carried out the Rs2.2 million robbery at the National Bank of Pakistan (NBP) in Swat has told investigators that the robbery was carried out with the aim of acquiring money to buy necessary military hardware required to attack army troops in Malakand Agency. He also revealed that suspects in the robbery case were affiliated with banned militant organisation, Jaish-e-Muhammad and included veterans of the Afghan and Kashmir jihad as well as newly-trained militants. The armed robbery took place on December 3, 2004 but Malakand police chased the militants and killed and arrested several after a pitched battle on the border between Swat and Dir districts. Investigators probing the robbery case have revealed that one of the arrested militants told the joint investigation team that the robbery was carried out to raise money to buy horses so that military equipment could be easily moved around the region. "Our amir [the militant did not name him] told us that every possible effort should be made to involve the army in Malakand so that a situation similar to South Waziristan would be created and we would be able to launch an attack on the army," a police investigator quoted an arrested militant. "We are not at war with the Pakistani people and the police; our war is against the Pakistan army that is fighting the mujahideen on behalf of the United States. We will finish it [the army] before it finishes us."
Not long ago, Abdul Qadeer Khan used to walk into a wooded park across the street from his mansion in Pakistan's capital city and feed the monkeys who lived there. That was when he was a national hero and a multimillionaire, owner of a fleet of vintage cars and properties from Dubai to Timbuktu. But Khan, 68, no longer crosses the street to feed the monkeys. These days he is almost never seen outside. His house, which lies just over a grassy hillside from Islamabad's King Faisal Mosque, is modern, squat and dark, its facade concealed behind a vine-covered wall. To the casual observer, the house provides just one clue to its owner's sinister profession. At the end of his driveway sits a large jasmine bush, trimmed into an odd but unmistakable shape: that of a mushroom cloud.
An army statement said the military medical corps and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem would begin treating victims of post-traumatic stress - commonly known as shell shock - with THC, the active ingredient in the cannabis plant. It said the treatment would begin on an experimental basis. "The use of THC as part of the treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder was approved by military and civilian committees relevant to the subject," the statement said. 
Turkmen and Arab political parties in the Iraqi city of Kirkuk have accused Kurds of fixing the result of provincial elections held on the 30 January. Official results for the election held on the same day as Iraq's national vote have not yet been released. But Turkmen and Arab parties in the northern city on Sunday said that Kurds from other parts of the country flooded the city on election day to inflate the community's vote. According to local Kurdish media, the Kurdish list expects to get about 63% of the vote for the Tamim provincial council which includes Kirkuk. "The elections lack credibility because of the major violations and the absence of international observers," a Turkmen candidate for the provincial election, Saad al-Din Arkaj, said after a meeting of Turkmen parties in Kirkuk.
The government has ordered legal action against prayer leaders who criticise President Pervez Musharraf's position as army chief and bring up other political issues in their sermons. The Interior Ministry has directed the home secretaries of the four provinces, the chief secretary of the Northern Areas, and the chief commissioner of the federal capital to compile reports about clerics who discuss politics and make anti-government speeches in their Friday sermons, government sources told Daily Times on Sunday. The reports will be used to make legal cases against the clerics. The Interior Ministry also directed the authorities concerned to particularly identify imams appointed by Auqaf departments and who draw their salary from the government but who still make speeches against the government in their sermons, the sources said. The provinces have been asked to take stringent action, including register criminal cases, against imams who "ruin the sanctity" of mosques and politicise Friday congregations, the sources added.
KARACHI: Violence erupted in Mubina Town on Sunday when two groups of students of a religious school fought with each other following a dispute between their two teachers. The police said Maulana Abdul Ghaffar and Maulana Umer, teachers of Madrassa Arabia Islami, had a dispute over some matter that resulted in a fight between their followers. Students pelted vehicles with stones, burnt tyres and blocked traffic. Firing in the air was also reported. The police arrested Maulana Ghaffar and another man. The police registered the case and are investigating.
Baloch nationalists have rejected the government's talks' offer and have resolved to achieve their rights at all costs, Nawab 
