A cross-section of Saudi women has come out strongly against the launch of a new Internet magazine targeting Saudi and other Arab women as well as children in the Al-Qaeda-inspired drive against "infidels in the Arabian Peninsula."
"Kids! You can have fun killing infidels and win this neat decoder ring!"
They said that by calling on women to join in the preparations for Jihad, the deviant group was straying away from the path of Islam, which stands for high explosives mercy, compassion, tolerance and justice.
You can tell by the number of churches, synagogues, and temples throughout the Moose limb world, and especially in Soddy Arabia...
"What do they want to achieve?" asked radio journalist and broadcaster Samar Fatany from Jeddah. "They really need to think about the consequences of their actions. What they are preaching is extremism and revenge which are totally un-Islamic."
"... but culturally very much a part of the Arab and Muslim world..."
She was confident that the website would have no adverse impact on Saudi women who are "God-fearing and in no way influenced by misguided teachings."
"Hah! How y'gonna get 'em to read yer website when we keep 'em illiterate? Riddle me that!"
According to Fatany, the situation reflects the weakness of the Arab world and the inaction on the part of the international community to stand up for justice and peace.
"Yeah! It's the innernational community's fault, dammit!"
She said the "unjust US foreign policy on the one hand and Israeli atrocities against Palestinians on the other have also been responsible for breeding such negative tendencies in the region."
"I mean, what else could us Muslims do? It ain't like we could negotiate with anybody or nuttin'!"
Another Saudi female journalist Hala Al-Nasser said the promoters of the Internet magazine were giving a twist to the concept of Jihad. "To me, Jihad means constant struggle and perseverance with oneself for the cause of peace."
To me, jihad will always mean cutting people's heads off and shooting school children in the back...
She said Saudi women would not be attracted by the kind of message being put out on their website. The newly launched online magazine declares that its mission is to "push our children to the battlefield, like Al-Khansaa." Umm Raad Al-Tamimi, the promoter of the magazine, further declares that another of their objective is to teach women how to contribute to jihad, or holy war. The monthly, published by the "Women's Information Office in the Arabian Peninsula," advocates the ideology of Osama Bin Laden: "Drive infidels from the Arabian Peninsula," or Saudi Arabia, which is home to Islam's holiest sites, Makkah and Madinah.
"That's 'cuz we're peaceful an' tolerant an' all that stuff! It's the presence of infidels that makes us go nutz!"
Named after a female Arab poet belonging to the pre- and early Islamic eras, the magazine appears to be the first of its kind targeting women and their children for jihad. "Close ranks on the side of our men," orders the publication, which also allocates space for alleged Al-Qaeda "martyrs" in Saudi Arabia. Al-Khansaa, a companion of the Prophet (peas peace be upon him), is remembered for her eulogies, particularly the one written for her brother Sakhr who died in a tribal feud.
[Slice!]
"Go fer yer sword, Sakhr!"
She later sent her four sons for jihad. All of them were martyred.
"We're [slice!] here to [slice!] avenge [slice!] Sakhr! [slice!]"
"Hey, Al-Khansaa! Youse got any more kids back there?"
"We will stand up, veiled and in abaya (black cloak), arms in hand, our children on our laps and the Book of Allah and Sunnah of the Prophet as our guide. The blood of our husbands and the bodies of our children are an offering to God," says the editorial in the first edition.
"Where do you want these heads, lady?"
One of the founders of the publication was Al-Qaeda's former chief in Saudi Arabia, Abdul Aziz Al-Muqrin, killed in an encounter with the police in June. The journal carries a section entitled "Women's Camp (Muaskar)", which is reminiscent of Al-Qaeda's military online magazine "Muaskar Al-Battar."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/07/2004 12:52:53 PM ||
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Forgive my Rhodesian-ess, but, any chick from anywhere, can Battar my Al-Muaskar, if she believe this shit.
Naturally, there weren't any explosives involved...
Posted by: Fred ||
09/07/2004 12:51 ||
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Islamic principles are based on justice, mercy and tolerance. They prohibit actions harming innocent people. Islam has banned the killing, threatening and torturing of innocent people,â
What no muslim seems to realize is that this is all just talk so long as they also believe that they must revere and emulate mohammed (piss be upon him)
The net result of mohammeds big talk in imitation of other religions and his actual actions results in a nullification of any claims to occupying the moral highground with other religions.
It goes something like this.
Example 1- mohammed said not to kill or harm innocent people. He even taught muslims to be gentle to trees. (What a sweet and gentle man!)
Then he condones the beheading of 500 Jewish men and the enslavement of their wives and children although they didn't actually do anything. They were punished because they weren't supportive enough of his cause and he took that to mean they meant treachery.
Net result is that islam teaches that one must never harm the innocent unless the situation calls for it.
Example 2
mohammed taught let there be no compulsion in religion
but he compelled a lot of people to become muslims or else be put to death. He made it a law to kill anyone who renounced islam. He introduced a whole host of discriminatory practices that gave muslims every advantage and those of other religions converted under pressure to provide a better life for their families.
net result- other religions are tolerated in islam as long as they quietly allow themselves to be slowly strangled to death without making a fuss. And if they make a fuss, then they must be brutally eliminated.
I could go on and on if I had the time. But in every way mohammed contradicted his own teachings with his own actions and amply demonstrated that he had no real moral authority unless the standard of morality is lowered to the point where it is hopelessly contradictory. Only then can mohammed be seen as a moral exemplar.
Contrast this to the founders of other religons who acted consistently with their teachings. Jesus went to the Cross, the most unholy and brutal form of execution ever invented rather than contradict his teachings. But when the going got tough or inconvenient for mohammed, all the fine talk went out the window.
islam is all fine talk with no firm or consistent foundation. That is why no thinking person can ever take it seriously as a moral authority.
It stands for nothing except whatever it takes for it to win and dominate the world. So what it stands for changes with the wind and the situation and the context. It is wholly bankrupt as a religion and all the rest of us must pay the price for all its empty high flown rhetoric and its pathological denial of its own actual results.
Postal vote application forms have been faxed to Australian terrorist suspects David Hicks and Mamdouh Habib in Guantanamo Bay. The forms were sent at the request of the two men, who have been held at the US military camp in Cuba for more than two years on suspicion of fighting with terrorist groups. "We received advice David Hicks and Mamdouh Habib had requested postal voting application forms," a foreign affairs spokeswoman said. "We sent those through, as we would for any Australian abroad who requested an application. "Australians are entitled to apply through diplomatic posts overseas for voting forms," the spokeswoman said.
#2
Tipper, if the Australian government needs help in counting absentee ballots from US military bases, they should contact Al Gore and his team of lawyers. They're the experts.
CANBERRA, Sept. 7 (Xinhuanet) -- A new opinion poll on Australia'sOct. 9 federal election shows that each of the ruling coalition and Australian Labor Party (ALP) got 50 percent of support on a two-party preferred basis. It means the coalition's support surges over a week ago when the election campaign began. The coalition's support was 48 percent a week ago compared with ALP's support of 52 percent.
Prime Minister John Howard holds a lead over Opposition Leader Mark Latham as the preferred prime minister, but Howard is behind Latham on the central theme of trust, according to the latest News poll survey, taken exclusively last weekend for The Australian, one of the country's leading newspapers.
Howard's support as preferred prime minister is 49 percent, compared with Latham's support of 37 percent. The support rates of Howard and Latham were up by 1 percent and 3 percent respectively from that in the poll a week ago. When asked who they would trust more, 40 percent of respondents chose Latham, compared with 29 percent choosing Howard. Twenty-three percent said "neither" could be trusted. The poll also shows that the coalition's primary vote rose from 43 percent to 45 percent while ALP's primary vote remained at 40 percent.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/07/2004 12:27:16 AM ||
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People seem apreciative of strong leadership when other people's elementary schools are invaded.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/07/2004 3:28 Comments ||
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#2
Even if Labor did come to power, the pro-American faction would probably put like minded politicians such as Kim Beazly in positions of Defence and Foreign Minister. The WoT would still be supported in places like Afghanistan, but Australian troops would probably be withdrawn from Iraq after the current rotation is finished.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
09/07/2004 3:49 Comments ||
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Just pray that some terrorist isn't even now planning to change these numbers in an instant by doing something terrible.
This is just just like the situation in Spain before 3/11.
PARIS, Sept 7 (AFP) - Winning the support of Muslim religious and community leaders could prove to be an effective but dangerous way for Paris to secure the release of two journalists held hostage in Iraq, experts say.
Foreign Minister Michel Barnier, who criss-crossed the Middle East last week in a bid to save the two newsmen, helped mobilise unprecedented support in the Arab world, from Al-Jazeera television to Iraq's senior Sunni Muslim scholars.
But Bertrand Badie, an expert on international relations at the Institute for Political Studies in Paris, said courting such "non-state actors" could backfire, as they were until now "not really considered to be the sort of people one can associate with."
A French diplomat said earning the support of top Muslim clerics allowed Paris to "hope that new channels, closed off up until now, could be opened" in the race to secure the release of Radio France correspondent Christian Chesnot and Le Figaro reporter Georges Malbrunot, in captivity since August 20.
But Badie countered that such an initiative created "a precedent that could weigh heavily" on French policy in the future, as it represented a "change in diplomatic style and technique".
"We're looking for diplomatic support from people who were sidelined before," he said.
By welcoming the trip to Baghdad by a delegation from France's officially recognised Muslim body, the French Council for the Muslim Religion (CFCM), Paris also took the risk of looking like it needs to delegate, Badie said.
"This co-management of the situation without a doubt marks the decline of the centralised republican model," he said.
"The Muslim community in France comes out substantially stronger, and makes itself into a sort of substitute for the French foreign ministry."
Paris must also tackle the even more difficult position it has been put into by winning the support of radical Palestinian movements Hamas and the Islamic Jihad - both considered to be terrorist groups by the European Union.
Antoine Basbous, who heads the Observatory of Arab Countries, pointed out that even groups like the radical Lebanese Shiite movement Hezbollah, which took French nationals hostage in the 1980s, came out in support of Paris.
"France cannot be seen to be benefitting from the support of people who are just too embarrassing," said Jean Marcou, who heads the Francophone political sciences department at the University of Cairo.
Dominique Moisi, deputy director of the French Institute for International Relations (IFRI), noted: "France's policy in the Arab world definitely played a role here."
"But France's pro-Arab policy is also something from which it has wanted to extricate itself for more than 10 years, in order to show that it is not politically committed on the side of radical Arabs," Moisi added, warning such a move would now be more difficult.
Despite the setbacks it has seen in gaining the release of the two men - described several times over the past two weeks as 'imminent' - France is still hoping for a resolution to the crisis that will see it come out on top.
"If the hostages are freed safe and sound in the coming days, we'll be able to say that France played its cards well, that it devoted itself to seeing the hostages released, as opposed to Italy, and that everything happened peacefully, as opposed to what took place in Russia," Moisi said.
But he warned: "If the hostage crisis drags on forever, the outcome for France will be much less convincing."
#1
French diplomat said earning the support of top Muslim clerics allowed Paris to "hope that new channels, closed off up until now, could be opened" in the race to secure the release of Radio France correspondent Christian Chesnot and Le Figaro reporter Georges Malbrunot, in captivity since August 20.
i.e., "now we have new ways to negotiate with terrorists."
#2
Paris must also tackle the even more difficult position it has been put into by winning the support of radical Palestinian movements Hamas and the Islamic Jihad - both considered to be terrorist groups by the European Union.
With friends like that, who needs enemies? The French are idiots. They are vigorously legitimizing those who seek to do them the greatest harm. You almost have to hope they succeed.
Two Western newspapers have highlighted fears of possible attacks by Chechen terrorists outside of Russia. The Chechen warlord linked to the bloodbath at a Russian school had plotted to kill British Prime Minister Tony Blair and is planning new attacks on British soil, a media report said Monday. Chechen militants, led by Shamil Basayev, targeted British Prime Minister Tony Blair for assassination during the Queen's Golden Jubilee in 2002 — a plot that could also have killed the Queen, Prince Charles and his sons William and Harry, a report by a British newspaper claims.
Bild am Sonntag has also learnt that German security services now fear Chechen terrorists may attack Russian facilities and embassies abroad. According to findings by the Federal Intelligence Service, the terrorists are being trained in Afghanistan where al-Qaeda has training camps. The Sunday Express also quoted security sources as saying the barbarous slaughter at Beslan is evidence that Basayev is now "out of control" and is a major threat to soft targets in the UK.
Counter-terrorism officials have identified an international school in London as a "source of concern". According to the report, it is a likely target because of the number of wealthy Russian students who study there. The "credible" threat to Blair led to a massive increase in security before the royal celebrations in June 2002. However, the Chechen link had been secret until last week's tragic events in Beslan. British security chiefs are also preparing a new warning for airport security that will highlight the potential danger posed by female suicide bombers. This follows the downing of Russian airliners by Chechen terrorists on 24 August.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/07/2004 11:17:04 AM ||
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In terms of the Bush bashing Germans, sometimes it takes being in the thick of it to understand why the one they bash is combating the most severe global threat to mankind since Hitler. But then again when you live a nation which was a two-time world threat and defeated with American armies, it's easy to blame America prior to the real terrorist enemy.
Or is there an underlining 3rd reason? The jihadists & their supporters clearly have a vicious hated of Jews & Israel, which remains a very strong undertone among the majority of Germans.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
09/07/2004 11:41 Comments ||
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What? Hey you burnt me on oil futures.... can I trust you on anti-semitism? It's likely just anti-zionism anyway... they're different you know.
PARIS -- As France awaits word on two journalists being held hostage in Iraq, officials have made it clear that they expect to benefit from their stand against the U.S.-led invasion and occupation. "France has always pleaded for the sovereignty of this country and supported its people," Foreign Minister Michel Barnier said last week as the crisis unfolded.
"Look at how well we supported your former president!"
The safe return of the journalists, Georges Malbrunot and Christian Chesnot, would not only end a crisis that has gripped the country but would also ratify the value of French opposition to the Bush administration's Iraq policy, political observers said. In lobbying for the captives' freedom, the observers said, France had gained support from governments in the Middle East, Muslim religious leaders and even the Hezbollah guerrilla group , which has used kidnappings in its fight against Israel's occupation of southern Lebanon.
An endorsement from Hezbollah? Boy howdy, those French diplomats are expert, expert I tell you.
"The French diplomatic effort has been impressive. If the hostages are released, it is a plus for French prostitution foreign policy," said Guillaume Parmentier, a political analyst and expert on U.S.-French relations. Dominique Moisi, a foreign affairs expert, said that "France's ability to mobilize friends is outside recognition" of the French policy. "The basis of the policy is that France fights terrorism as much as anyone, it's just that going into Iraq and wrecking all our business deals was not the best way," Moisi said.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/07/2004 12:17:50 AM ||
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Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas.
France: Cut them loose and let them sink. Cut all aid, minimal diplomatic ties. Toss 'em out od NATO altogether. Kick Dominique's dog, if you can find the mutt...
#2
It's rather fun to consider that Iraq is now, and will be in the future, more significant in world affairs than France. Nothing more need be said to repay them their perfidy and efforts to finish off whatever relevancy the UN stil had. They succeeded and, thus, consigned their last stage and venue of obstructionism to the scrap heap of history.
#3
The planet less two Gaulies....
Like Lawyer's, it's a start...
Maybe the Islamonazi's will do something special to the Gaul's, like doing a chainsaw from the top of their heads all the way through the family jewels!! Something creative just to get the worlds attention because they are "French".
BTW - Are the Gauls not do for a drop in population?
#5
It will be interesting to see how they spin being the 1st or second (Spain?) country to declare a truce with Bin Laden.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/07/2004 3:23 Comments ||
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#6
France will cough up the ransom, and be shocked when this same thing happens again.
You learn this in any schoolyard, give a bully your lunch money, and he will come looking for more no question.
The French never cease to amaze me. In a bad way.
#7
You never see Iranian and Syrian journalists held for very long and certainly not for very long. Must be the fact that those countries have very effective terrorist fighting programs as well. I bet Syria and Iran can expect regular help from Hezbolah, Hammas and the Association of Sadaamist Muslim Scholars as well.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/07/2004 7:38 Comments ||
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Very perceptive, Sock. Many comments on the Liberation reader forum recalled how the Filipino was released for $6 mil and who remembers that now? So two for a total of $5 mil? C'est tout? Better bargain than the OJ at my supermarket.
Two remarks: 1) I've been away since Thursday, but had seen where the "handover" to the more "moderate" Islamic group had taken place. Thought for sure then that the journos would be back in Paris by the weekend. I guess not. Un peu trop complique. But I thought the French were so good at nuance. Guess not.
2) I just cannot fathom the "gall" of these Frenchy intellectuals with their presumption that they have shown the world how much their opposition to the Cowboy has somehow put them into a different category. French diplomacy has mobilized al-Qadraoui, al-Tantawi, Hezbollah. What great friends to have when you need to pay off a ransom!
Posted by: chicago mike ||
09/07/2004 10:56 Comments ||
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#9
Oh, yeah. One more thing. I think the WaPo guy did just a great job in presenting the other side of the story, like, you know, maybe the kidnappers don't care too much if the captives are French or not. Also loved the part where the French were ticked off that our guys were mucking things up by taking on the Fallujah mafia.
Posted by: chicago mike ||
09/07/2004 11:01 Comments ||
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The Times isn't the only one. Here's an email I got from one Daniel Burosh, who opposes the war, in connection with a recent bombing in Iraq:
I Guess the baby soldier body parts flew just EVERYWHERE! Imagine the game:
"Look Abdul, I found an arm!"
"Here's a couple of ears!"
"Gee, Mustafa. I think a found a scrotum, and the ball are still inside!"
...
Hoo-ray! 985 and counting... When it hits 1000, my friends and I are going to PAR-TAY!
I had the same initial reaction to this as I assume you have. However, it's unlikely that someone of this nature would use his real name so hunting down all "Daniel Baroush's" is contraindicated.
#2
Everyone knows that much of the LLL is in this category. They have lost all sense of reality. Never had any sense of honor. This bunch is just as dangerous to Freedom as the jihadis. Since I realized this clash of civilization vs anarchy was coming, things have evolved. At first I dreaded it. But with every new revelation of the depth of their depravity, I find myself looking more forward to it. They are in range and I've come to see them as bubbles of hate - who cares why - unworthy of this country. I don't care if they get a clue, emigrate, or die, anymore. I do care that they endanger our entire way of life with their loathing of America. Fry 'em up.
#3
We at "The New York Times", official organ of the Kerry-Edwards campaign wish to encourage the insurgents to hurry up and do what they have to do until the magic number is achieved. Then we can smear blood all of the paper's pages and blame Bush for everything.
KERRY KERRY KERRY
News & Editorial Staff
New York Times
Formerly a Great Newspaper
#4
I would suggest they don't celebrate too much when that awful 1000 mark is reached. Dancing on the graves of American war dead has never been a particularly effective campaign strategy. Tends to piss off lots of those swing voters.
#11
Beat me to it Mike. But as I said in my post, it's unlikely this person would use it's own name, so hunting down all Daniel Burosh's is contra-indicated.
#13
The Black Knight isn't LLL BigEd. He's more like the former Iraqi information Minister.
" There are no US troops near Baghdad! "
*Boom*
" You're arm just got blown off! "
" No it didn't, it's just a small shrapnel wound! No more than a scrath! Anybody have a Snoopy band-aid? "
Posted by: Charles ||
09/07/2004 21:05 Comments ||
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"Come back and I'll bite your legs off!"
Any American that celebrates the death of our troops in time of war should be a candidate for deportation. To cheer the demise of those who protect your liberty is one of the ultimate ingratitudes. Parking lot therapy is too good for them. I'm picturing a certain precious appendage being submerged in a piranha tank.
An Egyptian refugee suspected of being a terrorist with links to Osama bin Laden said Tuesday that his human rights have been violated repeatedly by prison guards during the four years he's been behind bars in Canada. Mohammad Mahjoub told a Federal Court bail hearing that his time at the Toronto West Detention Centre has been spent in constant fear, especially after the 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States. He described his life after Sept. 11, 2001 as "something like hell." Four days after the attacks, Mahjoub was moved to solitary confinement, where he said his request for a blanket was met with a guard banging on the iron door of the cell and screaming obscenities. "'You are a (expletive) Muslim terrorist; we will kill all Muslims in the world,"' Mahjoub said the guard shouted through the door. He said he was terrified by the banging, which "sounded like an earthquake."
Mahjoub recounted an earlier episode in which he asked to be allowed to keep his underwear on during a strip search in March 2001. "That guard exploded with anger," Mahjoub said. "He was calling names against me, my religion, my family, against Muslims in general. He yelled: 'You should be killed, not just you, but all Muslims."' Mahjoub had previously refused to testify in public about the alleged abuses and had asked for a closed hearing with Judge Eleanor Dawson. Dawson refused the request, saying public testimony would promote public discussion of important issues and might prevent wrongdoing by placing those responsible for the conditions under public scrutiny. "We have had the benefit of reflection and Mr. Mahjoub fully understands the risks he is facing," his lawyer, John Norris, told court.
Mahjoub, 44, has been detained since June 2000, when he was accused of being involved with the Vanguards of Conquest, a militant organization that wants to overthrow the Egyptian government. He is one of five Canadians taken into custody by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service under a security certificate and tried on secret evidence. Under such arrests, the government can hold people indefinitely on secret evidence if they persuade a judge the suspect is a threat to Canadian security. Mahjoub is asking Dawson to release him from detention, where he says his human and religious rights are violated every day. His lawyers have also submitted an application to Dawson to hear a plea that Mahjoub not be deported to Egypt because he could be tortured. That will not be considered until Wednesday, Dawson said.
#3
Release him immediately----to Egyptian authorities. End of story. Being tortured in Egypt is pure speculation, after all, they are a Muslim country, and Islam is the Religion of Peaceâ¢, so what is the problem?
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/07/2004 18:17 Comments ||
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#4
AP has the right solution, let the Egyptians show im some love. ROP and all.
#5
boohooo..still got your head asshole....which a westerner held by brethren would most likely loose..
Posted by: Dan ||
09/07/2004 19:30 Comments ||
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#6
The people that have died at the hands of terrorists suffered a lot more than he did, that's for sure. And they aren't even in a position to lodge a complaint.
#10
He described his life after Sept. 11, 2001 as "something like hell."
I'm sure there's several thousand relatives of victims from the WTC, Pentagon and Pennsylvania flight who also have gone through "something like hell." The only difference is that none of those people voluntarily engaged in activities where the likely result was becoming a universal pariah.
Mahjoub's plight is so richly deserved as to be hilarious, and not much else. When you swim with sharks you can just as easily become chum.
#11
Once more, the press buys into terrorist ploy #1: If arrested, claim you were abused.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/07/2004 21:48 Comments ||
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#12
This description of a Canadian prison doesn't jibe with what I have seen on TV. It sounds like a super max in the United States. Does Canada have hard prisons as well?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/08/2004 1:59 Comments ||
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Terrorists still hope to disrupt the U.S. democratic process even though the presidential nominating conventions and other high-profile gatherings this summer went off without incident, Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge said Tuesday.
Threat reporting over the last several months has been "consistent, general and credible" and indicated the al-Qaeda network is trying to push ahead with its plans, Ridge said.
Although large events this summer were not attacked, he said, "that in no way diminishes the level of vigilance, awareness and concern that we have during this entire process."
Ridge commented during a morning visit to the National Targeting Center in Northern Virginia. Operated by the Customs and Border Protection agency, the center secures the nation's borders and ports with a focus on keeping terrorists and their weapons out of the country.
Speaking to the National Press Club later, Ridge said every day that goes by without incident gives authorities more time to make the country safer.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/07/2004 5:33:01 PM ||
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People in hell want ice water. Ridge is dangerously close to acting politically here. If they couldn't hit the Olympics or the conventions, they can't get through. They will focus their efforts in Iraq between now and election time to drive the body count as high as possible for their allies in the MSM.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/07/2004 17:39 Comments ||
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#3
Unfortunately, you can't assume because they didn't get through to either the Olympics or the RNC that we're "safe."
I believe that AQ and OBL assign separate cells to one "project"/attack.
Mrs. Davis, don't blame Ridge for acting "politically."
These days, post 9-11 and post-Clintons, everything's political.
And since the Madrid bombings and the disastrous effect on their elections, we have to assume they'll try to keep Bush from winning re-election.
First, we have to get through elections in Australia and Afghanistan.
EFL - Good read, here are a couple of pearls:
Porter Goss, nominated to be the next CIA director, took a hard line on interrogations in the war on terror earlier this year, saying "Gee, you're breaking my heart" to complaints that Arab men found it abusive to have women guards at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp. During one interview in May, the eight-term House Republican from Florida said he couldn't count the number of ongoing prison abuse investigations, but "we've got the circus in the Senate, which is always the likely place to look for the circus."
"We were very concerned that Guantanamo was being set up by the military to get the Good Housekeeping seal of approval because the International Committee of the Red Cross and the human rights people were there en masse, baying in large crowds with cameras, and making sure that these people who were trying to kill us and blow up airplanes ... that these nice, friendly people would be receiving all the necessary amenities of Good Housekeeping," Goss said in May. Sounds like this guy will have a hard time of it, too much of a straight shooter. Which is exactly what is needed in a CIA director.
Posted by: JerseyMike ||
09/07/2004 7:22:42 AM ||
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Interrogations indeed might be the key to the war on terror, but that doesn't necessarily mean that torture is the key to successful interrogations.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
09/07/2004 9:12 Comments ||
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#2
Mike, did you ever bother explaining why you blame the Russians for all the dead kids in Beslan? Or why you took personal offense at the press getting some blame for child labor?
As for "torture" -- shut the hell up. You'll notice that the people responsible for the abuses at Abu Ghraib are getting trials and punishment. Now, will you please quit beating that dead horse?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/07/2004 9:17 Comments ||
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#3
A lot of the ICRC/AI complaints (like the "women guards" thing) are total crap, and these prisoners aren't entitled to a vacation. But in the wake of Abu Ghraib, it would be in our interest for the designated DCI to take a lot less cavalier attitude about these issues. No point in making this fight any tougher than it has to be.
#4
Mark, maybe so, but when we start to tell these anti-american, anti-WOT asshats to "go f*&k themselves, we're doing this the best way to save American lives", it'd be the best way to handle them. They don't protest Castro, the PRC, et al, because those countries don't care about the ankle-biting leftys. We should show the ICRC the respect they deserve. When they let the Magen David Adom in, we'll quit calling them antisemitic assholes
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/07/2004 10:33 Comments ||
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#5
Re #2 (Robert Crawford): Mike, did you ever bother explaining why you blame the Russians for all the dead kids in Beslan? Or why you took personal offense at the press getting some blame for child labor?
Robert, if you want me to take you seriously, respond to what I write instead of your own projections.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
09/07/2004 10:47 Comments ||
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#6
If you want ME to take YOU seriously, stop acting like a whiny little twit. Your responses in those threads consist of the following:
"Whatever"
"Get a grip"
"?????????????????????????????????"
You're posing, not making an argument. All I'm doing is comparing your pose to the beliefs of others who strike similar poses.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/07/2004 14:14 Comments ||
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#7
Absurd statements don't deserve thoughtful responses. If Zenster writes that Reuters is to blame for child labor in India because a Reuters article on that subject doesn't expound on genital mutilation of girls in Egypt, then a "Whatever" might have to suffice from me.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
09/07/2004 14:35 Comments ||
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#8
Then why bother to respond at all?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/07/2004 14:38 Comments ||
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#9
Frank - They are antisemitic a**holes. I've got no problem with anyone here calling them that. IMO, for practical reasons unrelated to the substance of the matter, the DCI should forgo the pleasure. It makes it harder for some people who can help us to do so.
Castro and the PRC aren't successes on their own terms let alone ours. No need to take their lead until they do something that works.
NYT: Cult of Death - By DAVID BROOKS
Published: September 7, 2004
(Due to the fact that the article is behind registration required area, am posting in full.)
We've been forced to witness the massacre of innocents. In New York, Madrid, Moscow, Tel Aviv, Baghdad and Bali, we have seen thousands of people destroyed while going about the daily activities of life. We've been forced to endure the massacre of children. Whether it's teenagers outside an Israeli disco or students in Beslan, Russia, we've seen kids singled out as special targets.
We should by now have become used to the death cult that is thriving at the fringes of the Muslim world. This is the cult of people who are proud to declare, "You love life, but we love death." This is the cult that sent waves of defenseless children to be mowed down on the battlefields of the Iran-Iraq war, that trains kindergartners to become bombs, that fetishizes death, that sends people off joyfully to commit mass murder.
This cult attaches itself to a political cause but parasitically strangles it. The death cult has strangled the dream of a Palestinian state. The suicide bombers have not brought peace to Palestine; they've brought reprisals. The car bombers are not pushing the U.S. out of Iraq; they're forcing us to stay longer. The death cult is now strangling the Chechen cause, and will bring not independence but blood. But that's the idea. Because the death cult is not really about the cause it purports to serve. It's about the sheer pleasure of killing and dying. It's about massacring people while in a state of spiritual loftiness. It's about experiencing the total freedom of barbarism - freedom even from human nature, which says, Love children, and Love life. It's about the joy of sadism and suicide.
Posted by: Zarathustra ||
09/07/2004 2:25:14 AM ||
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#1
It was the fact that a team of human beings could go into a school, live with hundreds of children for a few days, look them in the eyes and hear their cries, and then blow them up.
That was the part of my world that changed on 9/11 - that these bastards could get on a plane, look around at passengers that included kids on the way to Disneyland or to see their family or whatever and think "praise Allanh, I'm going to fly you all into the side of a building" (so I'm channeling Lileks badly, sue me). Like the man says, a level of depravity some of us still refuse to see, or understand what we will have to do to deal with destroy.
#3
This is an excellent piece by Brooks, and at some level has to be seen as a slap at his own newspaper's editorial stance, and by extension, the entire mainstream media. And Democrats, Anybody But Bush types, Hollywood, and academia.
And these are all the same people that tolerate Brooks, and only Brooks, as the token conservative, because he doesn't tend to rub their noses in uncomfortable true facts. He sure does in this piece though. When even the Arab media starts to notice something you haven't yet noticed, it's well past time to take off the blinders.
Posted by: Jeff Brokaw ||
09/07/2004 11:08 Comments ||
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#4
ahhhhh. I hadn't seen this piece till later in my browsing (even tried posting it myself, but didn't know why it didn't make it -- now I know!). Glad it's here.
Brooks sums up a key aspect of "why?"
These people are NOT westerners. Yet we view their motives through western filters, which leads us to rationalize, explain or apologize. Just take a look at the paleos for the most aggregious examples.
So long as we do that the west will never be of one mind, and therefore will never be completely successful, at stopping these pigs.
#5
I've noticed over the past year the Chi. Tribune Moscow correspondent, Rodriguez, never mentions a religious vein re these Chechen/Chechen allies terrorist scum. I can understand why he would not want to label or stereotype, but what's wrong with using Islamofascist. In fact, MSM outlets can explain to readers, viewers, and listeners, what an Islamofascist is as opposed to a peaceful Muslim. It's all about behavior. Brooks has made a pretty good definition. Now the behavior just needs to be labeled and used. But perhaps MSM hasn't decided our sensibilities are yet at that point.
Posted by: chicago mike ||
09/07/2004 12:01 Comments ||
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#6
The above article makes several false assumptions:
We should by now have become used to the death cult that is thriving at the fringes of the Muslim world.
Um ... no. Any sane person (operative word: sane) does not become enured or accustomed to pathological behavior. On ancient maps, as with those compartments of the mind, such regions are labeled, "Here be monsters."
We should be used to this pathological mass movement by now. We should be able to talk about such things. Yet when you look at the Western reaction to the Beslan massacres, you see people quick to divert their attention away from the core horror of this act, as if to say: We donât want to stare into this abyss.
Again, there is nothing about terrorism to "be used to." Large populations of people capable of averting their collective gaze from close and careful examination of the horrorific core of these atrocities are known to terrorists as "targets." Think France.
Three years after Sept. 11, too many people have become experts at averting their eyes.
These people are known as "victims."
Theyâre still victims of the delusion that Paul Berman diagnosed after Sept. 11: "It was the belief that, in the modern world, even the enemies of reason cannot be the enemies of reason. Even the unreasonable must be, in some fashion, reasonable."
Throughout all of human history there have always been societies and religious groups, especially fundamentalist types, that defy normalcy or, frequently, even a reverence for life. Most of them are, per force, extinct. Think; Shakers, Thugees or the Pharonic dynasties. These various sects are self-limiting and were usually constrained to a somewhat localized effect on their environment. Advances in military technology have changed all this by facilitating the obsession so many of these groups have with forceful ideological conversion or simple domination. Reasonability often has little or nothing to do with their agendas and reason usually is a tool employed only by those who successfully resist or destroy such mindlessness.
This death cult has no reason and is beyond negotiation. This is what makes it so frightening.
While less cognizant people will commonly find this sort of irrationality "frightening," those who have the will and ability to properly defy such malign intent more typically view it as savagery and proceed to go about expunging it from reality.
Despite periodic episodes of intense mass warfare (i.e., World Wars), industrialized Western society has largely been able to dispense with the sort of routine battles that plagued humans for most of early history. Being now unaccustomed to the necessity for vanquishing irrational or pathological members of the species, be it a farmer killing rabid animals or society imposing capital punishment upon violent criminals, many people no longer comprehend the true nature of or need for military might.
The survival of liberty and open society depends upon the judicious administration of lethal force against those who would essentially impose slavery, be it to a religion or whatever political institution. People who think that love of life can exist without a concomitant willingness to bear arms for that same cause are not just foolish, they represent a distinct danger to those who correctly understand this equation.
The only issue involved with attempting to view terrorism through the filter of Western rationality is overcoming any compunctions about the putative religious worth or cultural relevance of those who advocate such wanton brutality. If genuine rational analysis is incapable of detecting any validity within the terrorist frame of reference, it must be duly noted and all subsequent measures thereafter must be taken towards the end of exterminating such a malignancy. Terrorists always have the choice of abandoning such a faulty methodology. Those who wish to survive their sort of mindless viciousness must unhesitatingly prosecute such a murderous mentality. Negotiation and appeasement serve no purpose towards that purpose. Extinction does.
EFL - I would have titled this: Idiot wants to hurt our security - Asks 9th Circuit for assistance.
SAN FRANCISCO -- The U.S. Department of Justice has asked an appellate court to keep its arguments secret for a case in which privacy advocate John Gilmore is challenging federal requirements to show identification before boarding an airplane.
A federal statute and other regulations "prohibit the disclosure of sensitive security information, and that is precisely what is alleged to be at issue here," the government said in court papers filed Friday with the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. Disclosing the restricted information "would be detrimental to the security of transportation," the government wrote. Attorneys for Gilmore, a 49-year-old San Francisco resident who co-founded the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a civil liberties group, said they don't buy the government's argument and that its latest request raises only more questions.
"We're dealing with the government's review of a secret law that now they want a secret judicial review for," one of Gilmore's attorneys, James Harrison, said in a phone interview Sunday. "This administration's use of a secret law is more dangerous to the security of the nation than any external threat."
Gilmore first sued the government and several airlines in July 2002 after airline agents refused to let him board planes in San Francisco and Oakland without first showing an ID or submitting to a more intense search. He claimed in his lawsuit the ID requirement was vague and ineffective and violated his constitutional protections against illegal searches and seizures.
A U.S. District Court judge earlier this year dismissed his claims against the airlines, but said his challenge to the government belonged in a federal appellate court.
Now in his appellate case, Gilmore maintains the federal government has yet to disclose the regulations behind the ID requirement to which he was subjected.
"How are people supposed to follow laws if they don't know what they are?" Harrison said.
[..]
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/07/2004 2:24:30 AM ||
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Bzzzt wrong answer..Secret law and a secret trail. I hope this guy wins. We don't need no stinking secret laws, trails or judges, not in this Republic.
"How are people supposed to follow laws if they donât know what they are?" Harrison said. Yup, exactly.
#2
Um so the airline asked to have him show his ID to verify that the ticket he has shows hes the person the ticket was made out to in order to board the plane. Wheres the secret law here? Sorry this guy is just weirding out.
#3
No thats an airline reg. Id to show you are the person who bought the ticket. No big deal and no secret there. That been that way forever. Those are company policies and no big deal, wanna fly show your ID.
Pulling out your internal pasport/ID for a goverment employee to travel? "laws and regualtions" that are secret. Now thats bullshit.
#6
Showing the ID at the gate could preclude several "bad guys" (possibly middle eastern in appearance)and their surrogates (which could be blond/blue eyed) purchasing tickets on different flights, with relatively close departure times and then regrouping on one or more planes.
#7
This kind of crap is why I don't donate to the EFF anymore.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/07/2004 9:19 Comments ||
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#8
First, producing two forms of government ID was not law in the past. When it became practice in 1998, it was in reaction to the Embassy bombings, Clinton getting tough, etc. What it really did was prevent someone from reselling an airline ticket, which used to be common practice, and allowed airlines to force the buyer to eat the price of the ticket if the flight had to be changed or cancelled. The airlines said it was FAA regs, and called security if you argued. Given that terrorists on Federal watch lists purchased tickets in their own names and produced IDs in their own names (or at least the names of thugs on the watchlists), it's pretty obvious that producing ID at the ticket desk prevented nothing.
False IDs are easy to produce, in high quality forms if you have the right money backing your operation. So if it's all about security, what happens when the terrorist checks in with his false IDs? Anyone who thinks IDs control anything needs to get familiar with Bruce Schneier (sp?) and "brittle security."
Gilmore's attorney is hyperventilating about the danger of the "secret law", but I wonder--what in the world can be so secret about requiring an ID that it requires a secret hearing? What can be so sensitive about citing the actual Federal regulation? Maybe there isn't one? What the Hell is "sensitive security information" anyway? I know what classified information is, how its classification is derived, how it's protected and declassified--but "sensitive security information" is not classified. Anyone familiar with law enforcement incompetence should be wary of such a big blanket to throw over its actions. And if that's what's happening, then our security really isn't being improved, is it? The 9th isn't the ideal circuit to hear the case, but I don't think it will harm anything if the DOJ has to show some of its cards to the court.
#11
Angie, as the saying goes, locks only keep out honest people. Valid IDs will only be presented by honest people, or as long as the dishonest person can use his without being tagged. Counterfeit IDs will be presented by dishonest people, whether they mean to destroy the plane or not. The point is, IDs count for very very little in a resilient scheme of security. To return to the lock metaphor, since the lock is easily cracked, the homeowner better have something more useful in his arsenal, whether alarms, weapons, or his stealables stored somewhere with stronger security. And if your concern is that someone is going to break in to kill you, then your locks are really next to useless except as a minor delay to the attacker, and they certainly won't deter him. Same with IDs to someone who wants to take down an airplane.
Frankly, the more sunlight that gets let in to the rotten crackhouse that we call airline security, the better. Gilmore may wear a tinfoil hat, but I sincerely doubt the DOJ has anything more to protect here than its own record of foul-ups (for example, coworkers of mine with highest level clearances in the service of the US, regularly pulled aside at the ticket counters for having the wrong name). If the information is classified, then there is a legal means of properly classifying and protecting it, and they should quit whining to the courts. If it's not classified and they're whining to the courts, then "sensitive" usually equals "embarassing."
#12
This ID thing is not security. If they are using "secret" regs screw um. The crap that passes for airline security isn't. They don't even profile. It's just random bullshit. It's a typical government goat screw. Telling us how they used ID's is not a secret. Telling us how they get the "names" on the no fly list might be, but I doubt it. Not with the numbers of "wrong" hits they appear to have.
#13
Socky, I'm sure that Gilmore's case is every bit as legitimate as a midget suing Cedar Point to ride the Dragster. He doesn't want a plane ride he wants the screening process to be laid out in the light of day for PC disassembly by CAIR in coordination with the ACLU. This is just an extension of the "I want to be veiled in my driver's liscence or I'll cry racism" ploy.
If you don't intend to allow for screening of passengers, how do you intend to stop terrorists who have stored their explosives internally?
How much information about screening do you want available to Richard Reid?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/07/2004 17:09 Comments ||
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#14
Super Hose,
If they were doing any screening I might agree, but all I see is grandmothers with knee replacements getting the third degree from some guy in a turban. It is a farce. And the government should not be asking for secret hearings to uphold secret regulations. I agree with the guy suing even though he is probably a wacko. We've unleashed all the little Hitlers in the country to show off how much power they have to make the general populace miserable without improving airline saftey one iota. I have not worried about flying since Flight 93 established how Americans will deal with highjackers from here on out. The TSA is a joke.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/07/2004 17:36 Comments ||
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The United States Tuesday reaffirmed its "absolute solidarity" with Russia in its fight against terrorism, but also reiterated its support for a political solution to the Chechnya conflict. The comments followed charges by Russian President Vladimir Putin that U.S. meetings with Chechen separatists undermine Russia's efforts against terror.
Officials here are defending past U.S. contacts with Chechen separatists in the face of sharp criticism by Mr. Putin following the terrorist attack last week that killed hundreds of children and others in North Ossetia.
The State Department acknowledges having working-level meetings with Chechen separatist politicians, though it says there have been none since 2002 and none with members of factions associated with acts of terror.
In a talk with reporters, Secretary of State Colin Powell said while the United States supports a political solution in Chechnya, it totally rejects and condemns acts of terrorism committed in the name of the Chechens such as the North Ossetia schoolhouse attack.
"All parties, to include the Russian Federation, have been looking for a political solution to the crisis in Chechnya," he said. "I think President Putin was making reference to occasional visits, not one recently but some time ago, of Chechen personalities to staff members of the State Department as part of our way of keeping informed about the situation in the region. Where we are now absolutely united though, is in condemning this horrible, horrible action that took place in this small town."
Mr. Powell, who along with his deputy Richard Armitage paid a condolence visit earlier in the day to the Russian embassy, said the entire civilized world condemns the North Ossetia attack, especially the murder of children.
He said the United States will work closely with Russian authorities "in any way we can" in the follow-up to the tragedy, and is looking forward to the official Russian investigation of the attack to see what it reveals about the perpetrators.
In response to a Russian request for help, the U.S. has delivered two planeloads of emergency medical supplies worth nearly $600,000 to North Ossetia with a third aircraft due there on Wednesday.
In comments to Western foreign policy experts in Moscow, Mr. Putin said the Bush administration had brushed off Russian complaints about contacts with Chechen figures.
He criticized what he said was a "Cold War mentality" on the part of some U.S. officials, and said calls on Moscow to talk to Chechen separatists were like asking the United States to talk to Osama bin Laden.
A senior diplomat here said the U.S.-Chechen contacts were at the working or desk-officer level, and that the last State Department visit by a Chechen separatist was in 2001. He said there have been no meetings since a similar encounter at an overseas international conference in 2002.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/07/2004 5:31:33 PM ||
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The United States Tuesday reaffirmed its "absolute solidarity" with Russia in its fight against terrorism, but also reiterated its support for a political solution to the Chechnya conflict.
Too much "nuance" for my taste. Makes my head hurt.
The man accused of masterminding the Bali bombings has written an autobiography in which he attempts to justify his role in the attacks in which 202 people were killed, the book's publisher said on Tuesday.
Imam Samudra has completed a 280-page volume while on death row after being convicted of playing a key role in the October 2002 blasts, publisher Bambang Sukirno told AFP.
The book outlines Samudra's journey from a 20-year-old Islamic militant fighting in Afghanistan to his involvement in the Bali attacks, planned by the al-Qaeda-linked Jemaah Islamiyah regional terror group.
"It will have Samudra's reasoning behind the Bali bomb operations, why he deemed such actions necessary," Sukirno said, adding that Samudra's royalties from the book would go to an undisclosed charity.
Sukirno, whose private publishing company, Jazeera, has produced an initial print run of 5000, said the book was already on shelves in the city of Solo on Java island and would shortly be available in Jakarta and other cities.
On sale for 37 000 rupiah (about four dollars), the autobiography features a cover picture of Samudra, dressed in white and sporting a traditional Muslim cap, pointing his finger in warning against a backdrop of flames.
Sukirno said the book's unusual title, "Me, Battling Terrorists", had been agreed between the author and publisher but offered no further explanation.
"I personally edited the script but actually did not change much. I even let him use English words and idioms," Sukirno said.
Samudra, who has shown no remorse over the bombings and was openly defiant during court appearances, includes personal details in the book including an account of how he met his wife.
It also has a chapter dedicated to one of his field of expertise, computer sciences. The chapter is entitled: "Hacking: Why not?"
The Indo Pos daily quoted Samudra (34), as saying the autobiography was written during detention, using paper and ink provided by his team of lawyers.
"What is quite important and meaningful for me, is that the original script was halaal (acceptable under Islamic law) as it was written using ink and paper given by the Muslim defence lawyers' team and not ink and paper from the police or the state," he said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/07/2004 11:36:32 AM ||
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Sukirno said the bookâs unusual title, "Me, Battling Terrorists", had been agreed between the author and publisher but offered no further explanation.
#4
Sukirno said ... that Samudraâs royalties from the book would go to an undisclosed charity.
Tell you what, that "undisclosed charity" had better be something like the Bali victims' fund and not some d@mned stinking madrassah. Otherwise, this is merely another terrorist venture operating from behind bars.
I also wish someone, somewhere with a spare $20K would buy the entire printing run and then burn it publicly. This whole schtick reeks of promoting terrorist agendas. Samudra needs a shiv between his ribs, real bad.
Philippine President, Gloria Arroyo, has announced an initiative to reform Muslim schools in the south of the country with the help of neighbor, Brunei, to deny Islamic militants a recruiting ground. Mrs Arroyo considers the threat of Muslim militants as her country's number-one security threat following a wave of deadly bombings in recent years in the Muslim-populated south of the mainly Roman Catholic nation. The president's security aides claim certain Islamic schools financed by interests abroad preach hate and religious intolerance and serve as fertile grounds for new recruitment for the Jemaah Islamiyah terrorist group. Mrs Arroyo, who is due in Brunei, will also meet Brunei's 10-member contribution to an international committee. The committee, led by Malaysia, is monitoring a ceasefire between the Philippine government and Muslim separatists in the southern Philippine region of Mindanao.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
09/07/2004 8:31:44 AM ||
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Deep in a palm oil estate in Malaysia's north, a cluster of about 20 wooden huts sits around a brick mosque. The mosque doors are padlocked and chained. Despite the peaceful appearance of this Islamic school, Malaysian police are watching it closely after Thai lawmakers said teachers there had taught Thais to take up arms in a rebellion that has cost more than 320 lives this year.
Long-dormant separatist feelings erupted in January in Thailand's Muslim south, where a low-level insurgency was fought in the 1970s and 1980s. "The police have been here more than 10 times, the latest this morning," said Azhar Baharudin, 28, who lives nearby. The Islamic school, or madrassa, is a 30-minute trek up a sandy path in a remote village near Sungai Ular (Snake River) in northeastern Terengganu state, about 200 km (120 miles) from the Thai border. The school, which teaches its young charges the ideals of Islam, was founded by a Malaysian religious teacher of Thai parentage who died in 1996. Locals said classes continue, with around 20-30 mostly Thai students a time taking lessons there during the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan, which falls in October this year. A freshly cemented brick enclosure, raised just outside the mosque, points to recent activity. "They come once a year to clean it up and pray. They don't teach militancy here; it's just religious teaching," Azhar told Reuters.
The Thai government says it cannot pinpoint precisely what sparked the latest violence in the country's south. But it says the largely Malay-speaking area needs a long-term development scheme and has pledged $300 million over the next three years for roads, better schools and new jobs. Late last month, Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra toured the Muslim south and promised to reverse Bangkok's neglect of the region. He promised free pilgrimages to Mecca for Muslim informants who turned in those behind the violence as well as programmes to tackle poverty and improve education in the area. Bangkok has passed to Malaysia the names of two dozen separatists it believes have taken refuge across the border but Kuala Lumpur says it cannot find them.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/07/2004 12:30:43 AM ||
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The locals are traditional animists who mixed their beliefs with Buddhism when it passed through - called Theravada Buddhism. Before the Islamists came, there was centuries of peace in that region. Centuries.
Wherever goeth Islam, there goeth grief. Something wicked this way comes, indeed.
Four Cabinet ministers resigned Monday to protest the extension of President Emile Lahoud's term, part of a bruising political battle that divided allies and drew the attention of the U.N. Security Council. The ministers' resignations were not expected to bring down the 30-man government of Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, although there has been talk of an upcoming reshuffle.
Lahoud convened an unscheduled meeting Monday evening with Hariri and Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri at the presidential palace to discuss the fate of the Cabinet. A government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the men were discussing reassigning the portfolios of the resigning ministers. Following the 40-minute meeting, Hariri said the fate of the Cabinet will be decided after his Sept. 17 return from a trip abroad. Asked whether a full Cabinet reshuffle was possible soon, Hariri told reporters, ``It is not ruled out. After my return, this matter will be discussed.''
Jumblatt told reporters the decision to pull out his ministers conformed with his 14-member parliamentary bloc's decision to oppose the extension of Lahoud's term. Bweiz, who also opposed amending the constitution, said: ``It is illogical that I stay in government.''
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/07/2004 12:46:22 AM ||
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Yeah, y'know France is such a well-known butt-buddy of America these days, says General Incompetence...
A leading Vatican cardinal said on Tuesday that terrorism was a new world war and fighting it may involve the loss of some civil liberties. "We have entered the Fourth World War," said Cardinal Renato Martino, head of the Vatican's Council for Justice and Peace, saying he believed that the Cold War was World War 3. "I believe that we are in the midst of another world war," he said in comments published in Italian newspapers on Tuesday. "And it involves absolutely everyone because we don't know what will happen when we leave a hotel, when we get on a bus, when we go into a coffee bar. War itself is sitting down right next to each and every one of us," he said. "Every state has to put in place the best possible policing method and this, naturally, might affect some personal freedoms. States have to carry out a defensive policy." Martino, who served for many years as Pope John Paul's ambassador to the United Nations, was opposed to the war in Iraq and last year criticised the United States treatment of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein after his capture. Martino said at the time that US forces had treated Saddam "like a cow".
Fired up about the dead kiddies in Beslan, yer excellency? How about Sammy's kiddy prison? Or shouldn't that count?
#4
Every state has to put in place the best possible policing method and this, naturally, might affect some personal freedoms. States have to carry out a defensive policy," he said...
Yes. Funny how he is silent about Iraq in this, though. Guess it was wrong then but is somehow right now? Could we assume he was forced to come to his conclusion after having confronted the monstrousness that is the soul of terrorism and the options available to a saner world?
#5
Wotta big surprise. A religion that stands to lose the most if Islam predominates finally gets a bee in their bonnet about terrorism. Cassock or no cassock, this sorely belated turn around in opinion still reeks of preinstalled UN weenieism.
Can you say; s e l f - i n t e r e s t ? Very good, I knew you could.
#6
It took Europe 300 years between the battle of Tours, where the invasion of Europe by the Muslims was turned back, and the First Crusade, where they took the battle to the Muslims. Wonder how long it'll take them THIS time around...
Dude, you just earned yourself a verbal slapping courtesy of OldSpook in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ...
Btw, didn't you notice his portfolio, "Justice and Peace"? That concept itself should be screaming LLL; there's probably more right-thinking (not just orthodox) clergy around there if you dig deep enough.
P.S. I believe it was OldSpook who explained that the pope's opposition was a "prudential judgement"; he thought that it didn't fit the definition of a just war in Catholic doctrine but left other Catholics free to disagree and support it or fight in it.
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
09/07/2004 16:04 Comments ||
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#9
eyes have been opened wide with shock over the last week, it;ll grow even more horrifing once people see the video the inhuman bastards in the school took,utterly sick stuff,fear etched on everyones faces,simply awful. I think after 9-11 some people were determined to hold on too thier indoctrinated values of pollitical correctness and utopian view of the world that the media has enforced upon us, eyes are opening and even now the church - an organisation normally determined to try and put a good face on everything and tell not to worry, an essentially pacifist group that didnt want to recognise the war on terror as anything legitimate, i think they now know its here and weve gotta win - which means there backing from there point of view, i'm not a fan of the church at all but i see this as an awakaning to Islamic nutters.
Posted by: Shep UK ||
09/07/2004 16:44 Comments ||
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#12
Regarding the Pope - yes it was his OPINION, not a definite ruling, nor a teaching - there was plenty of room left for disagreement over the just nature of the Iraq war.
Secondly, Cardinal Martino is simply the most recent in a long line of euro-trash that wants to return to the "go-along, get-along" way the Vatican ran before JP-II took over and sided decisively with "conservative" values, especially on women clergy, homosexuality, abortion and political freedom. The latter helped liberate the Warsaw Pact, with Thatcher and Reagan providing the "battalions" that the Pope lacked.
Seems he and his cronies in the Holy See maybe are getting a rather rude awakening that those of us over on the hard edge of Catholicism were right - and the Pope was right when he reiterated that objective Evil exists and is working in the world against the Church and its mission. They privately chisded Pope JP-II for being "too black and white", and "old fashioned".
They were "European Sophisticates" and didnt like this rough man from Eastern Europe shaping the Church into a more conservative and word-based, evangelical Church, one more oriented in the members and laity who really compose the Church and less in the power structure of the Vatican.
So they have been relegated to the spiritually unimortant parts of the Holy See - where, unfortunately they are doing damage by being reflexively anti-US.
But time has a way of "wounding all heels", and thier time has come.
President General Pervez Musharraf said on Tuesday that the majority of madrassas (Islamic seminaries) in Pakistan were moderate and asked them to help curb extremism by isolating the minority of madrassas harbouring terrorists, reports APP. The president, talking to a delegation from a group of madrassas called Wafaq ul Madaris, also called for teaching modern science disciplines to madrassa students so that they could benefit from equal economic opportunities in mainstream national life. He said madrassas that taught moderation, tolerance and enlightenment but those that sheltered extremists and gave rise to hatred must be isolated from the mainstream of religious institutions and prevented from tarnishing the image of Islam and Pakistan. President Musharraf said madrassas imparting true teachings of Islam should come out and openly condemn those promoting extremism. He said the government had granted autonomy to madrassas but expected them to adopt modern disciplines so that pupils graduating from these institutions could make a respectable living for themselves as professionals in fields like medicine, banking and engineering. He asked clerics and religious scholars to project the true image of Islam, but reaffirmed the government's resolve against terrorism and said "there should be no doubt that we condemn terrorism and are against all forms of the menace."
Mohammad Imran adds: According to ITMD Coordination Secretary Qari Hanif Jalandhary, President Pervez Musharaf assured the madrassa leaders at the meeting that he would bar law enforcement and intelligence agencies from raiding religious schools. During the meeting (which Jalandhary said was the first and a congenial one between the president and the ITMD leadership that lasted almost four hours) the president also said that he was unhappy that madrassas were raided by security agencies, Jalahdhary said. Mr Jalandhary also quoted the president as saying the government would form a National Curriculum Committee including ITMD leaders and educationists to revamp curricula into a combination of religious and modern education.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/07/2004 8:20:09 PM ||
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President General Pervez Musharraf said on Tuesday that the majority of madrassas..
I wonder, would Musharraf be willing to BET on that?
#1
Nice to see how Israel found a way of repaying some of the billions in foreign aid that America has sent their way. Locating and spiking SCUDS was most definitely in their own interest. Too bad it's less likely that they have many resources inside Iran. We'll be needing those pretty soon.
Israel renewed its threat yesterday to remove Yasser Arafat but hinted it had delayed taking action against the Palestinian president to avoid complicating a planned withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said on Army Radio that a security Cabinet decision of a year ago to expel Arafat "is still valid today" and that Israel would "find the way and right timing to bring about Arafat's removal from the area". Senior Israeli officials have reaffirmed the threat against Arafat several times before, but political sources say such a move is all but impossible as long as the United States, Israel's main ally, strongly opposes it.
Israel drew international condemnation last September when it decided "in principle" to remove Arafat, confined to his battered headquarters in the West Bank city of Ramallah for more than two and a half years. But the Cabinet set no date. Mofaz called Arafat an "obstacle to any future (peace) process", in comments broadcast six days after Palestinian suicide bombers killed 16 people on two buses in the southern Israeli city of Beersheba. Asked why Israel has delayed implementing the decision against Arafat, Mofaz implied this was to avoid aggravating tensions that could disrupt a plan to evacuate Israeli settlers and soldiers from the Gaza Strip next year. "What guides us now ... is firstly to carry out the disengagement plan," Mofaz said.
Mofaz also announced plans to build a second network of fences around settlements in the south of the West Bank in addition to the larger separation wall which is being constructed across the territory. Mofaz told the radio that a 10-kilometer section of the original route of the larger wall, which would have incorporated the settlements in the Hebron area, had been modified after a recent Supreme Court decision.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/07/2004 2:49:58 PM ||
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#1
It's high to dump the Yassir in the dumpster.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
09/07/2004 15:52 Comments ||
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#2
Perhaps they should invite him onto The Price Is Right and let him win an all expenses paid (one way) trip to the Cote d'Azur.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
09/07/2004 16:10 Comments ||
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This is actually a very difficult proposition.
While Israel richly deserves the satisfaction of vaporizing Arafat's maggot-riddled terrorist @ss, it would almost be better if the Palestinians firmly demonstrated their legislative cannibalism to the entire world by offing Arafat themselves.
On the charred planks of the gymnasium of School Number One, amid soot-covered children's sneakers and shell casings, Beslan's aggrieved citizens debated fighting back. At first, parents, relatives and friends of those who perished in Friday's bloody climax to the three-day siege gathered at the gutted redbrick building to see the destruction with their own eyes. But the afternoon soon turned into an impromptu town meeting, held in the blackened gym where many of the hostages died. A few voices in the crowd called for calm, but many insisted that the deaths of so many children be avenged. "Let's gather up all of the men in the villages and fight," shouted one man. "If we don't act now, when we calm down we'll end up not doing anything at all," yelled a middle-aged woman, shaking her fist in the air. Can you say Khatmandu x 1000?
Nikolai Betiyev, 52, urged restraint. "Let's bury the bodies first before we think of doing anything. We need to calm down." Betiayev? Liberals over there too?
"We won't ever forget this," shouted back Taimuraz Metsiyev, a broad-chested, 33-year-old Ossetian who lost several friends and relatives in the siege. "So don't say that in time we'll learn to accept this, and that we have to concentrate on burying our children. i.e. "Shut your ass you liberal weenie!"
"The people who don't want to fight say 'So many innocent lives will suffer if we take up arms'," Mr Metsiyev continued. "Well, we've already suffered enough. It's time to fight." Liberals exists in every society.
Even as the first funeral processions began wending their way through the streets of Beslan, many residents began openly talking of revenge. They directed their anger at the organisers and abetters of terrorism in the volatile Caucasus region, and said they could no longer rely on local or Russian law-enforcement for protection. Someone will pay for this!
President Vladimir Putin's image as an iron-willed, no-nonsense leader, relying heavily on his KGB past, now counts for little in many people's eyes. They are furious with what they see as his inability to shield the nation from terrorism and from the fallout of the decade-long conflict in the northern Caucasus. Now, Mr Putin's calls for restraint appear to carry little weight with so many touched by the crisis. My mother-in-law, a Russian citizen, voted for Putin. Now she is not so sure. .
In Beslan, Fatima Ganukova scoffed at the President's surprise visit to the town early on Saturday to meet survivors, saying he should have instead visited the morgue to view the scope of the tragedy. i.e. Vlad needs a dose of reality.
"Of course, after the funerals our men will try to take matters into our hands," Ms Ganukova said. "And of course, this is the right thing to do." Again, remember what happened in Khatmandu?
I agree that Putin looks bad in all of this. But I'm not sure that its because people blame him as much as he just seems destoyed in his appearance, like he has been hit really really hard. Maybe its just me but he looks small now.
If he's any kind of man at all, we'll soon see it. I hope that he responds to the shock of this attack the way that W did.
Btw, I just can't blame Putin for what happened. I mean what more could he have done?? He laid waste to an entire region in retaliation for terrorist acts and it apparently did him no good to prevent this kind of thing. Does this attack mean that there is just no winning in this fight? Or does it mean that we are going to have to start re-evaluating what we think that victory in the short term should look like?
Personally I am moving away from expecting to be kept perfectly safe in the short term by my government. What is becoming more important to me is that we resist and fight back no matter what it might cost us. I am fully prepared to wait a long time for the final results.
The Russians are suffering for fighting back and I expect that we in the US and UK will too someday soon. I retain the right and priviledge to ask my government to be ever more vigilant and effecient in doing their duty to protect us but I'm not going to blame them when someone manages to slip through before we manage to win this thing.
When that happens I just won't be surprised and then I'll expect the government to fix that hole. I won't blame them for not anticipating every move the terrorists might make.
#3
There is actually a case to be made for an independent Chechnya as a matter of abstract justice. (Unlike the "case" for the Palestinian cause, or for whatever it is the Islamofascists want from us.) However, after Beslan, you can forget Chechen independence for at least a generation. With the exception of the Chomsky-Moore-Rall-Kerry campaign staff-U.N. axis, the world's sympathy meter is off-scale low with respect to the Chechens.
Posted by: Mike ||
09/07/2004 14:37 Comments ||
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Chechens? What Chechens? Are they still there? I'm pretty sure I saw them commit mass suicide quite recently.
#5
President Vladimir Putinâs image as an iron-willed, no-nonsense leader, relying heavily on his KGB past, now counts for little in many peopleâs eyes. They are furious with what they see as his inability to shield the nation from terrorism and from the fallout of the decade-long conflict in the northern Caucasus.
The Russians have a great capacity for love and for fighting, but also for resignation. Putin or no Putin, they will need stamina and the refusal to resign in their cause against jihadists. Russia, don't let your outrage dissipate.
#6
Col. Albert Seaton, the brilliant chronicler of the Battle for Moscow once observed:
(paraphrasing) The greater distance one is from the Russian, the greater the tendency is to underestimate him.
Don't count our Russian friends out of the action. The minute you think they are finished, they will come rolling over you in incredibly hostile numbers. Once the Russians understand their strategic objectives, they will achieve it in short order, and they will make the other poor dumb f*ckers die for their cause.
#8
If you're an imam at a mosque in southern Russia, you should be digging through your filing cabinet trying to find your property insurance. If there's no Vengeful Mob rider attached to it, turn your ass towards Mecca and bend over, because you're about to get divinely screwed.
#9
RWV - The Russians have been trying to obliterate Chechnya for last 6 years. Either they are incompetent or have bad aim. It seems to me that the infusion of 150,000 Red Army and Special Security forces should have done the job.
Considering the current outrage, Vlad and the boys might just opt to make whole place a parking lot.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
09/07/2004 16:21 Comments ||
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Douglass...Yes, the Russians have been trying to obliterate Chechnya. No, they haven't pulled out the stops (e.g., Arc-light raids over major industrial sites or known, terrorist stongholds). I think that a lot (a LOT) of innocent Chechans are goint to die.
#11
Points:
(1) Putin doesn't have the options that GWB had. His military is shaky at best.
(2) Chechnya was "free" from about 1993 to 1999 - and in that time it was taken over by gangs and islamofascists. Basically - independence didn't work because it was overwhelmed by local warlords and jihadis.
What will work? - gotta get rid of the gangs first in order for Chechnya to stop being a breeding ground for maggots.
How to do that? Russian military has failed.... guess who gets to help?
GWB better get over trying to run the war on the cheap. We're gonna need a lot more troops and sooner rather than later.
#14
#1Personally I am moving away from expecting to be kept perfectly safe in the short term by my government. What is becoming more important to me is that we resist and fight back no matter what it might cost us. I am fully prepared to wait a long time for the final results.
Really well said, peggy.
I would advise those in Chechnya who wish to live no part in the gangster and terrorist related activities to file formal requests with Moscow for temporary relocation. Once all the requests are properly screened and implemented, Russia should go in and begin leveling everything in sight. If it moves, kill it and if it doesn't, burn it.
Once the carnage is over, come back in and rebuild. Then turn over the newly unoccupied territory to those who actually want to live in peace. Any more monkeyshines ... rinse and repeat. All of the preceeding campaigns couldn't have cost any less (in lives lost and financial expenditure) than what I'm proposing.
#16
Peggy has it wrong. This is yet more evidence of the failure of the criminalized, incompetent Russian state. Like the last humiliating skirmish won by the Japanese in 1905.
Russia's failing, folks. It's another version of Pakistan, and it desperately needs our help to turn things around.
Because if the Russian WMD candy-store collapses, we're screwed. And if the Russian FSB-mafiya state continues to slip nuke technology to the mullahs, we're screwed.
Russia needs our help, now. Condi, get on that plane. XOM, ChevronTexaco: you guys can do business in Nigeria or Angola; you can and will resurrect Russia's rotting oil industry. Nonproliferation $$$$-- whatever it takes.
#17
GWB better get over trying to run the war on the cheap. We're gonna need a lot more troops and sooner rather than later.
Bingo. White man's burden, 21st-c style. Scrap the tax cuts and boost troop strength for forward deployment as close to Iran as we can possibly get. Better get serious about container-scanning for nukes, because they're coming to a port near you.
Time for us to admit that Russia is a failing state that must not be allowed to fail and that NATO's finished. Forget about expecting (or caring about) any help from EUrabia.
We need to secure that vast arc of jihadist and nuke-infested instability that runs from Syria to Kashmir, and to do so we have no choice but to make a full-court press with willing partners in Russia, India, Iraq, Turkey and Israel.
And that won't come cheap. Need lots-o-carrots and lots-o-troops.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has said that mid-level officials in the U.S. government were undermining his country's war on terrorism by supporting Chechen separatists, whom he compared to al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.
Putin's charge, made in a meeting with a group of western foreign policy experts, came just days after hundreds of people, mostly children, died in the bloody end to the Beslan siege.
Putin also defended his government's decision to storm the school and said the hostage holders had begun shooting children out of boredom.
His comments did not suggest the final raid was triggered by the shooting of children.
In the wide-ranging meeting which lasted almost four hours, Putin said he likes President Bush, calling him a friendly, decent, predictable person.
But Putin said each time Russia complained to the Bush administration about meetings held between U.S. officials and Chechen separatist representatives, the U.S. response has been "we'll get back to you" or "we reserve the right to talk with anyone we want."
Putin blamed what he called a "Cold War mentality" on the part of some U.S. officials, but likened their demands that Russia negotiate with the Chechen separatists to the U.S. talking to al Qaeda.
These are not "freedom fighters," Putin said. "Would you talk with Osama Bin Laden?" he asked.
Putin said the Chechen separatists are trying to ignite ethnic tensions in the former Soviet Union and it could have severe repercussions.
"Osama Bin Laden attacked the United States saying he was doing it because of policies in the Middle East," Putin said. "Do you call him a freedom fighter?"
Putin's comments came a few weeks after the U.S. granted asylum to Ilias Akhmadov, the "foreign minister" of the Chechen separatist movement.
The Russian president also justified the rescue operation in Beslan, conceding that it took time to mobilize the operation.
He said Russian special forces stormed the school knowing they themselves were likely to be killed.
In one dramatic moment, Putin said Russian security forces overheard a disturbing walkie-talkie conversation between the terrorists:
"What are you doing? Why? I hear some noise. What's going on? I'm just in the middle of shooting some children."
"They were bored," Putin said. "So they shot children."
Putin said investigators determined the hostage takers included 10 fighters from "Arab" countries, along with others from the former Soviet Union and one person from North Ossetia where the hostage crisis unfolded.
Putin said the terrorists' goal was to ignite conflict between two local ethnic groups, the Ingush and the Ossetians.
In other comments, Putin said Russia would take its own approach to democratic reform.
"We'll do this at our own pace," he said. Democracy can mean different things in different countries, he said.
"In Russia, democracy is who shouts the loudest," he said. "In the U.S., it's who has the most money."
Asked about the U.S. presidential race, Putin was complimentary of President George W. Bush, saying he likes him. He is a friendly, decent, predictable person, but "it is not about personalities," Putin said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/07/2004 11:39:07 AM ||
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I've always thought, that if we wanted our war against terrorism to succeed, we needed to reconize everyone's problem with it, and help them. In this I think Mr Putin is right. We need to help them.
#2
This is likely to be the Sr to Mid-level "Career Diplomats" in our beloved State Dept running their own Foreign Policy. Many have said it here before, there needs to be a major housecleaning at State - to remove the elitist arrogant unelected (and largely unaccountable) fuckwits at State who think they know better than everyone else - and will prove it by undermining the Admin.
These are the same people who have repeatedly made a total hash of things - via the mixed messages and half-assed efforts when they deign to act at all - from Joe Wilson antics to NorK to China to Chechnya.
It's our very own internal Ivy League Snob Mob of UN-styled multiculti appeaceniks and intelligentsia.
#4
More likely than Putin being upset over America's willingness to talk to Chechens, I bet what really got Putin panties wadded was the response by the American papers and press. And who can blame him? Everything I saw from talking heads on Fox to BBC put forth that the concept that whole incident was "caused" by Russia's "poorly trained, underequipped, underpaid, military, who were "unprepared". As if one could be.
Whoa! Slow down there, Russian cowboys. That's just what the press and talking heads say. As such, it follows that the majority of Americans disagree.
Posted by: B ||
09/07/2004 12:02 Comments ||
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Let's have a little chin-chin about those nuclear reactors in Iran you're being so helpful about, Vladdie...
#7
This is likely to be the Sr to Mid-level "Career Diplomats" in our beloved State Dept running their own Foreign Policy. Many have said it here before, there needs to be a major housecleaning at State - to remove the elitist arrogant unelected (and largely unaccountable) fuckwits at State who think they know better than everyone else - and will prove it by undermining the Admin.
.com = this is the root of Putin's frustration. And our career Mad-Cow-Disease affected bureaucrats at the State Dept need to be retired.
#8
#5Let's have a little chin-chin about those nuclear reactors in Iran you're being so helpful about, Vladdie...
Bingo, mojo. Until RasPutin purchases a clue about Iranian terrorism and its connection to Beslan, all of his wrathful indignation is mere window dressing.
#10
why should we help putin in his war on terror? H He doesn't seem too care about helping the US do anything in our war on terror besides sell the enemy weapons.
#12
He doesn't seem too care about helping the US do anything in our war on terror besides sell the enemy weapons.
That's the quid pro quo, smokey. If RasPutin wants our help, he's got to cut off the arms pipeline. Too bad everybody's in bed with communist China. It'd be really nice if Russia wouldn't sell them that $900 Million TMD (Theater Missile Defense) package. Wishful thinking, I know.
#13
OHhh...and we're suppose to forget about the fact that the Russians hampered our push into Iraq, by providing jammers to our JDAM bombs to the Iraqi side; and night vision goggles to the enemy also!! What about the trinary positioning by RUSSIA, France, and Germany in the United Nations against us, from the start?! Yes, as I always say, "what goes around, comes around: including you...Mr. Putin!
#14
I am dumbfounded! You're on-topic and making salient points! Gosharoonies, smn, you're going to give me a heart attack! Bravo!
Indeed, Tsar Putty does have some explaining to do, some past betrayals (especially since he did the face-to-face with Bush before he stabbed us in the back) to answer for, and no reasons for us to trust him. None.
I'd prefer to deal with someone else - and his pop idol game may fall flat on its face if he doesn't get very serious about internal reforms and help the average Russian up off the floor. I may get my wish.
Already coined as Russia's September 11 by various Russian pundits and editorials, the tragic slaughter of hundreds of innocent people in a middle school in Beslan has the potential to trigger a major tremor in the foreign policy charted by President Vladimir Putin, perhaps even as far as heralding a new chapter in US-Russia relations, much to the chagrin of the so-called Eurasianists around Putin who have for a long time been advising him to steer clear of the US's "war on terrorism".
In his first post-Beslan interview, Putin, in a tone reminiscent of President George W Bush's post-September 11 behavior, has declared Russia to be in a "war" with enemies that his defense minister, Sergei Ivanov, has branded as "unseen" and "borderless". Cognitively then, the mass killings in Russia, including the victims of downed Russian airplanes and Moscow subway commuters, have seemingly spurred a politico-ideological turn around vis-a-vis the US, viewed with suspicion by the Kremlin for exploiting the September 11 tragedies for geopolitical gains at Russia's doorsteps in Central Asia and elsewhere in the Middle East, prompting Russian policy-makers to rethink their cynical gaze at the US war on global terrorism, eg, the same Ivanov has been on record for making paranoid statements about a post September 11 "dense ring of military and intelligence gathering installations belonging to the US". In the light of the severity of the Chechen-led terrorist attacks, reportedly with participation by members of al-Qaeda, Ivanov and other like-minded people around Putin are likely more apt to make similar statements about the threat of Islamist terrorism.
Does this mean that we are about to witness a foreign policy "re-orientation" in Russia featuring Moscow's new willingness to join Washington's war on global terrorism and to make the foreign policy adjustments deemed necessary for such an alliance? While we must await the passage of time to furnish the answer, the current milieu in Russia, wrought with a governmental crisis in combating terrorism, is clearly pregnant with such a possibility.
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
09/07/2004 11:15:24 AM ||
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The quicker "Vlad" realizes we have more in common with one-another than either of us with the Eurpoeans, or anyone in the midEast, save Israel, the quicker we can put on a united front, and sent the millions of thugs that need to be sent to the lower regions.
#2
Unfortunately, the Russians have a certain pride that makes it hard to admit that they need help, that they can't go it alone. They also have viewed the U.S. as the enemy for several generations now. It's tough to go to the enemy to ask for help. I think the U.S. also contributes to the problem by being somewhat condesending about Russia's methods of dealing with the problem of terrorism. Different cultures, different methods of thought. It's going to be tough job to bridge the gap.
Posted by: Old Fogey ||
09/07/2004 14:44 Comments ||
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be nice to see an anti terror act between America and Russia and hell why not Israel and Britain, Australia too, time for the world to really start fighting this Together - lets hope so eh...
Posted by: Shep UK ||
09/07/2004 16:49 Comments ||
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#2-I don't think it's pride-it's intellectual snobbery. I have seen it many times in the classroom-they "know" that they know how to do "x" better than Americans (or any other non-Slav, for that matter). And this is coming from someone who likes Russians very much (overall).
As far as our condescending-it's non-existent, until the moment the Russians pick up the Euro banner of "the root causes of terrorism, we have to understand why, we need to talk it over" gobbledy gook--in that case, you would be right.
#6
Putin is at a crossroads, and he must decide his course of action soon.
The Chechen terrorists are stepping up their campaign. They see Russia as weak and helpless.
1. The govt is corrupt and inefficient, and probably has sympathizers and 5 column people in it that have to be rooted out soon.
2. The military is corrupt and demoralized. Lots of work here too.
3. Russia has been keeping company with nasty countries. They are trying to have it both ways. You cannot be palzy-walzy with The Chicoms and Iran. They are liars and thieves and will smile and make nice conversation while they work the knife into your back.
4. Putin is trying to go it alone. We have to work together to make it happen.
Putin needs to create and implement a new paradigm in the way his government works and meets challenges and threats. His task is the equivalent of open heart surgery on a marathon runner while he is running. But if he is going to be around, he better start crackin'.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/07/2004 22:47 Comments ||
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OHhh...and we're suppose to forget about the fact that the Russians hampered our push into Iraq, by providing jammers to our JDAM bombs to the Iraqi side; and night vision goggles to the enemy also!! What about the trinary positioning by RUSSIA, France, and Germany in the United Nations against us, from the start?! Yes, as I always say, "what goes around, comes around: including you...Mr. Putin!
September 7, 2004: The U.S. Navy's Summer Pulse '04 exercise, conducted over the last few months, in which seven carrier groups "surged" out to sea in response to a hypothetical crises, gave everyone a chance to see what changes would have to be made for this new strategy to work. The surge strategy is a sharp change from the decades old policy of regular six month cruises (followed by 18 months in port for training and maintenance.) Under the old policy, carriers in port were still considered liable for sea duty in an emergency, but generally did not prepare for it. With the new surge system, ships will spend only about ten percent of their time at sea, rather than the previous 30 percent (the six month cruise plus shorter training cruises.) Under the new system, ships are expected to be as ready as possible for deployment, while in port. This means that supply levels (food, fuel, ammo, spare parts and so on) have to be kept at, or close to, maximum levels at all times. Crew strength has to be kept as close to hundred percent as well. This means that leaves and temporary duty (for training, usually) have to be carefully scheduled in order to keep the maximum number of people on board. This might even lead to the policy of keeping crew size at over 100 percent. Under the old system, you would go to sea on the six month cruise with over 90 percent of your authorized crew size. But during the 18 months in port, the carrier might see a third or more of its crew on leave or away for training.
Interesting, so this is what they were working on.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/07/2004 10:36:07 AM ||
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Ummmmm.... better yet... keep the crew strength at 100 percent or better and keep the carriers at sea 35 percent of the time like God intended. I know these guys are experts... but this sounds Soviet.
#2
Shipman, don't know your background, but I see a huge hole in this--if crews have to be maintained at near 100%, then where's the advantage to the sailor who used to have to deploy, deploy, deploy? Now he just sits, sits, sits, can't go to schools, they would take away from readiness. Not to mention the unmentionable--is there enough gear, parts, and weapons to fully load up all those boats at once? There were reasons for that old cycle, and I can't see how the bean counters will get in line behind this one.
#3
I have often wondered why the US Navy in particular,and the other services as well,don't strike a deal w/State Univ.&Colleges and make it possib for the young men and women to get at least their first year of college credits while serving their first enlistment.Esp.if credits are transferable to any State College/Univ. that accepts Federal funding.How hard would it be for Navy to find some Professors(even retired and/or disillusioned w/campus politics)willing to teach eager,disciplined young men and women,who would also be willing to go to sea for a couple of months(surely a Carrier could spare a few berths for Englis/Lit/Math/Social Science teachers)?
Posted by: Stephen ||
09/07/2004 15:14 Comments ||
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I think they're referring to equipment/procedures/methods training. For instance, mechanics getting refresher courses, officers updating management techniques, etc..
#5
Stephen, the Navy has such a program as well as all the services: The Navy College Program for Afloat College Education (NCPACE) is a part of the Navy College Program. Both academic skills and college (undergraduate and graduate) courses are available through NCPACE. NCPACE college courses are provided by regionally accredited colleges and universities. NCPACE gives Sailors the opportunity to experience challenging education while on sea duty assignments preparing them for personal and professional growth. The Navy has contracted with Central Texas College (CTC) of Killeen, TX, to administer NCPACE. Through CTC, colleges and universities around the country offer courses in a variety of delivery methods.
Courses are taught via technology and by traditional classroom instruction. All undergraduate courses are from institutions with Servicemembers Opportunity College - Navy (SOCNAV) affiliation insuring Sailors the opportunity to transfer credits and complete degrees.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/07/2004 16:01 Comments ||
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#6
LL, you're right, about the manning thing. I just don't like ships staying in port getting ready to get started to get ready to surge. That's ass backward thinking. You can learn lots at sea.
#7
I'm ignorant of military affairs but it seems to me that with the new approach, the ships sit in port so the bad guys know where they are (and possibly where to get at them ala Cole) as opposed to being at sea where the general location may be known but not necessarily the exact location.
#8
6352, the difference would be that the carriers would be in their home port. The USS Cole went in to Aden in Yemen when they should have refuelled underway, Djibouti or in another secure location. Bad things happen when stupidity rules the day.
As for deployment versus being in homeport, I don't think the plan is to keep the carriers tied to the pier. The underway time would probably be nearly the same but the carriers would be just off the coast. Flight status can't be maintained while tied to the pier.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/07/2004 22:55 Comments ||
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#9
Sailors belong in ships and ships belong at sea. The only way to be good at operations is to operate. Personnel turnover requires constant retraining. There is no simulator that can inculcate the teamwork required to be proficient at fighting a ship. You also do not know what problems lurk on a ship until all systems run at sea. You don't know how a crew is going perform under the grinding stress and pace of ops until you grind on them. A well rested crew is probably a dangerous crew beleive it or not. It is fine to be able to surge your forces, but their is no teacher like experience. Get 'em out to sea 'til the sailors grow gills and big blue balls. Then turn 'em loose on some exotic port of call. Too bad Mecca is not directly on the coast.
#10
I think something is wrong here in the way the article is written. Everything I read before hand on the surge practice was to have ships at sea MORE often than in port.
From StrategyPage: September 7, 2004: Russia and Israel have signed an agreement to cooperate in fighting terrorism. Israel probably has the largest number of intelligence agents within Islamic terrorist groups. This is because many Israelis speak Arabic, and many are descended from families that lived for over a thousand years among Arabs, and are indistinguishable from them in appearance. Russia also has a network of contacts and agents in Arab countries, a remnant of the Cold War. Combining their resources, the two nations will gain some new insights on Islamic terrorist groups.
The European Union (EU) is in hot water with Russia because of a remark by the EU foreign minister ("We would like to know from the Russian authorities how this tragedy could have happened."), which implied that the North Ossetia massacre was Russia's fault. The EU has been apologizing for the remark, but most Russians still believe that the EU is out of touch with reality. The EU's position has always been that it wants a political solution in the region and a Chechen leadership that is acceptable to the Chechen people, rather than one supported by Russia. What the Europeans, ignore, or fail to understand, is that the Chechens tried, and failed, to govern themselves between 1993 and 1999. The result was a massive Chechen crime wave in the Caucasus and a Islamic radical movement, formed in Chechnya, trying to conquer neighboring parts of Russia in 1999. Many Chechens were found, and killed or captured in Afghanistan in 2001. They were in Afghanistan to get al Qaeda training. The Chechens have always concentrated on their fight with the Russians, however, and not international terrorism. The Chechen Islamic radicals, in particular, will not negotiate with the Russians. Nor will many of the criminal gangs. The EU has not been able to come up with a viable solution to the Chechen situation, but instead continues to criticize Russia for not making the violence go away. The EU ignores the fact that Chechnya has been a problem for centuries, and that the current situation is not unique in the region.
The school in North Ossetia was selected for the raid several months ago, when it was noticed that the school was undergoing renovation. Since Chechen criminal gangs have their fingers in everything, it was easy to arrange for a construction company to allow the terrorists to bury guns and explosives under the floorboards of the gymnasium. Better intelligence work on the part of the Russians might have discovered this, but the Chechen gangs are very close knit, and difficult to penetrate. This is why the Chechens have been so successful in the organized crime area. Russia has now said it will greatly increase it's intelligence efforts. Actually, during the Soviet period, the KGB had much better information on the Chechen gangs, which the secret police often used for various jobs. Most of that cooperation has disappeared since the fall of the Soviet Union. The KGB is now the FSB, and is going to get back into bed with the criminal gangs. That's because the people who are closest to the Chechen gangs are some of the Russian gangs that compete with them. This is all going to get very interesting.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/07/2004 10:14:51 AM ||
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this is from Iraqataglance's site
My God..what a great news..at last the Iraqi people got out to the streets of AlNajaf in a demonstration against Muqtada, they want him to get out of the city and also do not want any one of his followers to pray there.. They were cursing his militia, courts and they looked so angry.. AlHurra channel met few of them who said 'we don't want him..they are thieves'
[Ays posts some images at the end of the message]
The people were repeating words that support the ING and IP and wanted the government to put an end to what they called 'a disgrace' and 'crimes' that happened in AlNajaf especially the courts of Muqtada... Let the world know the real Iraqi people, the people who look for peace and justice, security , freedom and democracy..not those criminals who are shown on the channels kidnapping and killing the innocents in the name of 'resistance and Islam'âŠthere is NO 'resistance' in Iraq, there are AlQaida, Saddamis, Arabs and criminals who are destroying our country and the MNF, ING, IP and the IRAQI PEOPLE are fighting themâŠ.
- although the situation is looking better in Najaf, it seems the situation is getting worse in the Sunni triangle -- several cities have been Fallujahized --
Posted by: mhw ||
09/07/2004 8:34:48 AM ||
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WHere is the MSM on this? Were it an ANTI-US rally, it would be screaming all over the headlines.
#2
Because it would not quite fit the template, Old Spook. Those of you in battleground states, let your acquaintances know.
Plus, this news comes from an Iraqi blogger. We all know bloggers never went to J-school; can't be legit sources, you know. That's why the Sunday talking heads never have these guys on. The fact he's Iraqi reporting favorable news on the Iraqi street means he's in the pockets of Allawi/Bush.
Posted by: chicago mike ||
09/07/2004 9:23 Comments ||
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#3
Prior to the war, I noted that the MSM, particularly NPR and BBC, had dropped all pretenses of "reporting", pulling out all stops in the hopes of swaying public opinion against the war. They failed. Now they have even stripped away pretenses further and have stooped to the level of outright propaganda and shilling for the enemy.
If I had stock in any of these entities, I would sell them. These guys are clearly going for broke - and with the advent of the internet - I believe they are incapable of succeeding financially in the 21st century.
I do fear however, that if they achieve their goal of electing Kerry - they can enact legislation to fund themselves as well as allow more foreign funding - and that that is why we see them so willing, to not only embrace Goebbels, but do him one better.
Not everyone reads rantburg. We should feel concerned.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
09/07/2004 10:38 Comments ||
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Mike, what's your point? Did you look at the pictures?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/07/2004 10:59 Comments ||
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#6
I did look at the pictures. I don't see thousands.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
09/07/2004 11:10 Comments ||
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#7
i mentioned this on a more "centrist" site. The response from the Iraq-pessimists is that Najaf is the bastion of Sistani support, and so is particularly anti-Sadr, but that Sadr has stronger support elsewhere, especially in Sadr City and Basra. I think theres growing opposition to Sadr in those places too, but its not nearly as dramatic as in Najaf.
#11
That's some extrapolation, mhw. It might also have been "Demonstration by 100 people ignored by MSM".
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
09/07/2004 11:59 Comments ||
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#12
Thousands, hundreds - who cares? If it had been "ones", and anti-American - MSM would have made the photos front page news.
Shareholders beware - dump that MSM stock now. They are going to tank just like the Tech stocks did in 2000. Get out while there is something to be gotten.
Posted by: B ||
09/07/2004 12:09 Comments ||
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#13
It's kind of ironic that some critics of the "main-stream media" casually concoct information with no regard to truth and accuracy.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
09/07/2004 12:23 Comments ||
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#14
kinda ironic that you would say that, Mike S
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/07/2004 12:52 Comments ||
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#15
Kinda *typical*, that when someone is correct and you can't actually dispute what they say, you immediately use a personal jibe instead, Frank.
Stopping inventing elements and then presenting them as factual would be a good step for someone to take before they criticize for media for *anything* at all.
#16
It's kind of ironic that some critics of the "main-stream media" casually concoct information with no regard to truth and accuracy.
It happens less often than with the press itself.
(And this is more evidence that Mike's a member of the press. He's very defensive about this stuff.)
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
09/07/2004 13:27 Comments ||
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Mike,
I don't think my extrapolation is unreasonable. From the pictures you can get an estimate of the size of the public area in which the anti Sadr demo took place. It looks to me to be at least 300ft by 200 ft (possible more). Also from the pictures, it seems that most of the public area was crowded with anti Sadr people. So, even if only a quarter of the area was covered with people (a conservative estimate required since the photos were going to be taken of where the action was) there would be 15,000 sq ft of anti Sadr people with at least 1 person for every 6 sq ft (the 1 person per 6 ft sq is about a typical demo in the US and seems to fit the images) That gives 2,500 anti Sadr demonstrators.
#20
Kinda *typical*, that when someone is correct and you can't actually dispute what they say, you immediately use a personal jibe instead, Frank. Stopping inventing elements and then presenting them as factual would be a good step for someone to take before they criticize for media for *anything* at all.
;-) Aris in my world we call what you just did: projection. Who's correct? As defined by you? Mike S. ? Puhlllleeaassse, you're killing me here lol
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/07/2004 15:39 Comments ||
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LOL. I feel better now, refreshed somehow. Is Spencer Tracy on this thread?
Russia's president has attacked those calling for Russia to enter talks with Chechen separatists after the Beslan school siege, where at least 335 died. Vladimir Putin also rejected a public inquiry into events that led to special forces storming the school on Friday. He told two British newspapers that entering talks was akin to the West negotiating with Osama Bin Laden.
Meanwhile, thousands of Russians are expected to attend anti-terror rallies on Tuesday, as Beslan buries more dead. Forensic specialists are to begin DNA testing of the 107 bodies so badly damaged by fire and explosions that they remain unidentified. "No-one has a moral right to tell us to talk to child killers," Mr Putin was quoted as saying by Britain's Guardian and Independent newspapers. He added: "Why don't you meet Osama Bin Laden, invite him to Brussels or to the White House and engage in talks, ask him what he wants and give it to him so he leaves you in peace? "You find it possible to set some limitations in your dealings with these bastards, so why should we talk to people who are child-killers?"
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Steve ||
09/07/2004 8:19:23 AM ||
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#1
russky bro, use your nukes against this bastards cities every time a terrorist act is been committed and the Chechen problem will be resolved
BBC correspondents in Beslan say anger in the town, with a population of some 30,000, is being directed at neighbouring Ingushetia.
Although it remains unclear who the hostage-takers were, many Ossetians are convinced extremists from its long-standing rival were involved.
An anti-Ingush demonstration is planned for the North Ossetian capital Vladikavkaz on Tuesday.
Federal troops are reported to have enforced the border between the two republics.
The Russian Army saw what happened in Khatmandu, Nepal, and are afraid of anarchy.
#3
"No-one has a moral right to tell us to talk to child killers," Mr Putin was quoted as saying by Britain's Guardian and Independent newspapers. He added: "Why don't you meet Osama Bin Laden, invite him to Brussels or to the White House and engage in talks, ask him what he wants and give it to him so he leaves you in peace? "
There's no reason this should sound better coming from the mouth of a European leader, but because it occurs so rarely, it does. Is it naivete to hope they may be finally getting it?
Tuesday September 7th, 2004 LONDON: British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw on Monday ruled out any UN or other international role in resolving the Chechen crisis, saying that it was up to Russia to find the right way of ending it. "This is something which is bound to have to be resolved by the Russian government," Straw told BBC radio in the aftermath of the Beslan school hostage-taking bloodbath. "It is within their state and they have been taking steps to deal with it," he said, adding that President Vladimir Putin "is a man to make his own judgments about what is appropriate".
Straw said that he often discussed Chechnya with Russian officials, "but with great respect I don't think now is the moment (to discuss ways to end the conflict) because it is almost tasteless and it is disrespectful to the dead and the dying and their relatives" in Beslan. "In addition to that, it has the effect of sliding away the focus from where it should be, which is on the nature of these people who say they have some cause or other, but who are willing, in support of that cause, to murder innocent children," he said.
Straw said Britain has offered Russia any help or advice it needs to confront terrorism, though he added no request has been received from Moscow in relation to the Beslan incident. "We have always worked closely with the government of Russia in counter-terrorist operations and if and when they need any assistance and advice from us of course they will be offered it very readily," he said.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
09/07/2004 4:21:29 AM ||
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#1
British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw on Monday ruled out any UN or other international role in resolving the Chechen crisis, saying that it was up to Russia to find the right way of ending it.
The UN, however, reserves the right to tut-tut the Russians if these actions do not please them.
#3
Sorry Jack, but what's done is done, and resolving the Chechen "crisis" will do nothing to stop Chechen/Arab terrorism, unless Mr. Straw has something more violent in mind.
Posted by: V is for Victory ||
09/07/2004 11:53 Comments ||
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#4
Sounds like water running, soap spewing, handwashing to me.
#5
Lead, follow or get out of the way. It sounds like Mr. Straw has chosen the third option, which puts him ahead of France and the EU, who would rather interfere than be helpful.
#7
I read it to mean that is ok for any country to fight terrorism in its own best way-except, of course, for America. This is not a slam on Jack Straw-it just seems that "American exceptionalism" has taken on a whole new meaning.
On another note, the West's earlier support of satellite states breaking off from the former Soviet Union makes this a tangled but interesting mess, doesn't it?
#8
Not gonna argue too much with with Jules.
Let the KGB, be the KGB, has it has been forever and shall remain under a different name from time to time, amen.
#4
Mark, I think I see what you're saying. With the possibility/probablity of being shown to have American blood on his hands, very few politicians other than John Conyers will make a peep while he is removed.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/07/2004 7:25 Comments ||
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#5
But how can this be?
He has won the Nobel peace prize, been welcomed at the White House, applauded at the UN, feted by the Euro and American illuminati.
Surely this man can't be a murdering terrorist scumbag.
#6
With the possibility/probablity of being shown to have American blood on his hands, very few politicians other than John Conyers will make a peep while he is removed.
The problem is, who's going to remove him? The Palestinians themselves aren't likely to do it.
#12
Super Hose, I feel an official American foundation is being laid to remove the mask Arafat has been allowed to keep on by the majority of nations, thus... remove Arafat, the ongoing, historic terrorist instigating cancer Israel has been forced into dealing with since the late 1960's.
Once Yassir is shown the exit door, however that transpires, what remains? Hamas gangs of death cult killers along with other fanatical Muslim factions which could conceivable devolve into an inter-(Pal) Arab civil war, in effect being fought between the various power hungry jihadist groups, all battling each other for absolute control, of what, is the question. A policy of divide a crush would ensue.
This could evolve as the best possible solution to the deadly terrorist problem Israel and other regions are confronted with by many of these 'Pal' Arab Islamists exporting themselves into the middle of other 'jihads' such as currently taking place against our men in Iraq & Afghanistan, plus the unstable situations in the southern Balkans, Kashmir, and the ever-expanding chaos within the greater Caucuses.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
09/07/2004 10:57 Comments ||
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#13
Mark, the only problem with your scenario is that it's like giving a moron a 9mm and hoping he'll cap himself. Sure, he just might do it, but it's also likely that others will get snuffed too.
I would dearly love to see the Palestinian death culture take it in the shorts. But I also know that more than a few Israelis are going to get caught in the riptide. They just cannot build that wall fast enough. Too bad there's not a (non-nuclear) way to simply exterminate these violent turds.
#14
I understand your points. We should recall the 'Pal' Arab Islamic terrorist gangs have already demonstrated their willingness to slaughter each other over the Arafat political power position over the last few months.
Once Yassir is gone and the inevitable power vacuum displays itself, the various Arab terrorist infrastructure will, as we have previously seen, turn on each other, it's the true nature of such blood thirsty gangs.
In relation to Israel's national anti-terrorist barriers being constructed as rapidly as possible, the sooner the jihadists are prevented from exterminating Jews via bus bombings along with other forms of high-kill-ratio acts of terrorism, they will attack each other for pure power. We, coupled with the Israelis must not only encourage inter-Islamist fighting, and by removing the principal 'Pal' Arab rallying point in Arafat, it furthers the goal, since if the terrorists revert to a fierce battle amongst themselves, not only do they self-diminish as terrorist threat, but Israelis , plus other potential innocent victims are hopefully spared from additional attacks through the thining of their numbers to focus on Israel or export, and make indepth elavberate or plan .
There could also emerge a voice of reason from within the Arabs, so sickened by the jihadists murdering each other and innocents in the process. Due to the fear factor held over the heads of non-jihadist Arabism, this option should not be viewed as viable at this stage.
I am aware some of this is theory bit in part has a;ready been proven as fact by recent examples. The same theory could function in the Lebanon and else where different view points exist among the most radical of the jihadists.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
09/07/2004 17:06 Comments ||
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#15
An idea for the Palestinians-
Try a new approach-one without the regular cast of characters. The US, one of the partners in the 4-party Peace plan, recognizes that Arafat is not a worthy representative for negotiations, and understands there is no such thing as a "political wing" of a terrorist group.
You can change your lives for the better by changing your will. What is it you want? Peace and some land, or anihilation of Israel? YOUR CHOICE IS YOUR VOTE-YOU GET ONE. You need to understand that the consequences of your choice is better lives or an eternal blender of flesh.
You complain the US has been disinterested in your plight? Palestine, you have not kept your part of the bargain in the 4-party Peace Plan. Your most ardent defenders say it is because Palestinian terrorists CANNOT be controlled. What if YOU, the Palestinians, took up the cause of love of your own lives and demanded a leader who would snuff out the intifada? What if you abandoned your hypnotic love of a suicide bombers and terrorists posing as politicians-the ones that always promise you a Palestine state and always deliver back-to-back funerals? What if you determined who deserved to be called a leader-you've lived among the people in your communities your whole lives-none of us have. If you actually chose a leader who would LEAD TOWARD PEACE, do you think you might have a better chance in this world? Would it be easier to envision a day when your people, to the last man, sees your contribution toward peace restorative to your self respect, and the best proof of your love for your children, your families?
"On Monday, Musharraf courted more controversy by strongly indicating that he plans to stay as army chief next year to help maintain national stability during the anti-terror campaign - just eight months after telling the nation he would be standing down."
I agree with him. When you are the target of asassination attempts, pick some other more peaceful time to take off your military uniform.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
09/07/2004 3:09 Comments ||
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#3
..Is it possible that this is just an attempt to yank Al-Q's chain - that is, we say we're this close to catching him and these guys look at each other and start freaking out, wondering who's talking?
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
09/07/2004 10:16 Comments ||
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#4
Musharraf is just following in the footsteps of another president who also held the military chief portfolio, Gen. Zia ul Huq.
Like Musharraf, Zia was also a close U.S. ally, and was, at the time (1980âs) helping Washington to fight the Russians in Afghanistan.
Despite his promise to "return to the barracks in 90 days," Zia ruled Pakistan for more than 11 years, using the referendum to justify his rule. He left only when killed in a plane crash in August 1988, along with his senior aides, the then U.S. ambassador to Islamabad and an American general.
If I were Musharraf, Iâd remain clear of any flights which include the U.S. ambassador.
#5
#1 You are so right! Never has a man won a "distinguished" anti-terrorist reputation with so little to back it up. For that matter, the CIA has done nothing to prove that OBL is alive, and thus the claim that forces are closing in on him seems extemely self-serving.
A little background: Wedged between Chechnya and North Ossetia is an even smaller territory called Ingushetia. Like the Chechens, the Ingush were accused of collaborating with the Nazis and were deported en masse to Central Asia and Siberia by Stalin in 1943. When the Ingush returned to their homeland, part of it (a patch of land called Prigorodny) had been transferred to neighboring North Ossetia. Ingush were allowed to settle in Prigorodny, but N. Ossetia retained sovereignty over the place.
Fast forward to the Nineties and Soviet disunion. After an uprising in South Ossetia (part of neighboring Georgia), scores of thousands of Ossetian refugees fled into Russian North Ossetia. Most were settled in Ingush-majority Prigorodnya. The result, in October of '92, was a fast but fierce campaign of ethnic cleansing as most ethnic Ingush were expelled from N. Ossetia, especially Prigorodnye.
I've been waiting for something like this since Beslan first unfolded...
A mob of at least a thousand Ossetians enraged by the recent hostage drama in this south Russian republic gathered in the disputed Prigorodny region bordering the republic of Ingushetia Sunday, with plans to attack Ingush homes.
Regional police managed to disperse the crowd and prevent an interracial conflict.
Ingush and Chechens (close kin to each other) are both Muslim with a history of bad blood with Moscow. Ossetians (a Persian-descent people with no kin in their vicinity) have a Muslim minority, but most are Russian Orthodox Christians and remain faithful to Moscow. As you might expect, they loathed each other even before the Prigorodnye ethnic cleansing, which only made the hatred more intense.
This is exactly what the Beslan butchers (at least some of whom were Ingush) wanted to accomplish. This is why they attacked a school specifically in North Ossetia instead of in Russia proper. A few reprisal attacks against Muslim ethnicities, and "fence-sitter" Muslims in the North Caucasus -- Kabardins, Cherkess, Karachays, and the dozen-odd Dagestani nationalities -- all get pushed off the fence and into the jihadi camp.
Keep an eye open for incidents like this is days and weeks to come. They will determine whether the Beslan terrorists were evil geniuses, or merely evil.
Posted by: Another Dan ||
09/07/2004 12:47:57 AM ||
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#1
If they are "merely evil" the world should not worry too much. If they are the "evil geniuses" you speak of, watch for scorched earth or a very bright flash on the horizon. Either way, I have little pity.
#3
Very good background data on this greater issue.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
09/07/2004 10:59 Comments ||
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#4
I share your concern over the onset of pogroms. They will accomplish little as they inevitably kill innoncent grandmas and children.
I hope it can be avoided. Send in the death squads, armed with intel and training, to kill the right people. It will accomplish far more in the long run.
We must avoid the desire to punish a representative "they". It's always counterproductive and I agree it is probably just what the terrorists are hoping for.
Posted by: B ||
09/07/2004 11:35 Comments ||
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Peace talks on Sudan's violence-torn Darfur region are deadlocked, one mediator said Monday, as the African Union's chief appealed to the Sudanese government and rebels to compromise. The two-week-old talks in Nigeria's capital Abuja have failed to move past the crucial question of disarming - with rebels saying they will lay down their guns only after Sudan's pro-government militia, the Janjaweed, does so. ``It appears deadlocked, as the two sides are holding to their hard-line positions,'' Brig. Gen. Festus Okwonko, a mediator and commander of the African Union's cease-fire monitoring troops in Darfur, told reporters.
Surprise.
The two rebel movements - the Sudanese Liberation Army and the Justice, Equity Movement - draw their support from African tribes in the region. The Sudanese government is acccused of backing the Janjaweed in an effort to stamp out the rebellion, a charge Khartoum denies. Mediators asked Nigerian President Olusegun Obasanjo, the African Union's current chief, to intervene personally. Obasanjo did so Monday, urging both rebels and Sudan's government to ease their demands at the scheduled resumption of talks later in the day, said Ahmed Tugod, spokesman for the rebels.
The rebels remain insistent that government warplanes stop bombing in Darfur and that Janjaweed militia be disbanded and investigated for any human-rights violations, Togod said. ``For us, these issues will decide the fate of the talks,'' the rebel spokesman said. Sudan's chief negotiator, Majzoub Khalifa, insisted Monday his government remained committed to the talks, saying: ``We are ready to continue the negotiations on the security matter.'' Sudan's delegates, however, warned against any intervention in the talks beyond that of the African Union - apparently fearing the United States or others might be moved to bring pressure to bear. ``Any ... type of interventions in the talks will only complicate matters,'' said Gen. Abdullah Saffi El Nour, a Sudan government envoy to the talks.
An effective international force would certainly complicate handing out the oil contracts in Darfur.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/07/2004 12:42:03 AM ||
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#1
A deadlock - who'da thunk it would come to this? I'll bet that this thing can get jump-started by using a single Spooky gunship with a little Wild Weasel / HARM action beforehand. I wonder if General Okwonko walks with a stiff-legged limp...
#2
Much as I'd get a certain satisfaction from that, .com, I still think the best way to go is to teach the Furians to defend themselves. Low-tech is the way to go: rifles, mortars, ammo, comm gear, and instruction.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/07/2004 1:06 Comments ||
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Dr Steve - Okay, I like that too - "teach a man to fish..." is good. I'd still like to do a little cauterizing of the wound beforehand to give them time to organize and such, heh.
#8
ZSU-23-4 as anti-personnel weapon. Soviet forces in Afghanistan learned quite a bit fighting the mujihadeen, and among the fighters on both sides were Chechens.
Both forces have remembered their "lessons learned", as is shown in this narrative.
The Chechen lower-level combat group consisted of 15 to 20 personnel subdivided into three or four-man fighting cells. These cells had an antitank gunner (normally armed with the RPG-7 or RPG-18 shoulder-fired antitank rocket launcher), a machine gunner and a sniper. Chechen combat groups deployed these cells as anti-armor hunter-killer teams. The sniper and machine gunner would pin down the supporting infantry while the antitank gunner would engage the armored target. Teams deployed at ground level, in second and third stories, and in basements of buildings.
Normally five or six hunter-killer teams simultaneously attacked a single armored vehicle. Kill shots were generally made against the top, rear and sides of vehicles. The Chechen hunter-killer teams tried to trap vehicle columns in city streets where destruction of the first and last vehicles will trap the column and allow its total destruction.
The elevation and depression angles of the Russian tank barrels were incapable of dealing with hunter-killer teams fighting from basements and second or third-story positions and the simultaneous attack from five or six teams negated the effectiveness of the tanks' machine guns. The Russians attached ZSU 23-4 and 2S6 track-mounted antiaircraft guns to armored columns to respond to these difficult-to-engage hunter-killer teams.
An Israeli spy satellite intended to increase surveillance over Iran landed in the sea Monday after a rocket malfunction shortly after take-off, Israeli officials said. The satellite, Ofeq-6, was meant to give Israel more early warning in case of a surprise missile attack and to provide more information on Iran's extensive missile program. Ofek means "horizon" in Hebrew.
Iran has already tested the Shahab-3 missile, which can reach Israel and beyond, and it is working to build nuclear weapons to mount on it, according to senior Israeli intelligence officials. "Iran wants to become a regional superpower and then a global superpower," an official said in an interview Monday. "They intend to be the latter, and this is what worries us the most."
The Israelis believe that Iran wants nuclear weapons to further and bolster its flagging revolution, to provide an alternative to Egyptian secular moderation, and to challenge the military supremacy of Israel and the United States in the Middle East. "When the Iranians have enough fuel for enrichment and the technology for it, it's over," the Israeli official said. "We hope somebody will do something about it pretty soon."
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/07/2004 12:36:49 AM ||
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I wonder how much French help Iran is getting with it's missle program? I wouldn't put it past Chiriac after all he was a peddler of all things nuclear as well in the past and wants to be a counterweight agaisnt US intersts. That makes him natural allies with Iran.
The French our "friends"
sinp
* Reports out of France indicate the Chirac government is behind the anti-American demonstrations there, and that references to the coalition troops as "Anglo-American" forces and "Anglo-American liberalism" are terms borrowed from Vichy propaganda during the Hitler occupation.
* Not only have French radicals desecrated the monument at Etaples honoring 11,000 "Anglo-American" soldiers who died to free France, but according to a poll in Le Monde 25 percent of Frenchmen wanted an outright Iraqi victory over the United States and United Kingdom.
* Slogans were painted on the Etaples monument at the Channel coastal town declaring of the dead Americans and Brits whose graves stretch to the horizon: "Dig up your rubbish, they are soiling our land."
#2
Just read the whole thing, folks. This guy is from the NYT school of Duranty. Love the scare quotes around war on terror. BTW, is it possible to "land" a satellite "in the sea" (Med., Red, or Black?) after its launch has been aborted?
In any case, Israel, keep trying.
Posted by: chicago mike ||
09/07/2004 10:10 Comments ||
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#3
It would be the Med CM.... the Israelis are forced to launch "against the wind" or from east to west to avoid dropping a live one on the palis and their affliated brethen. They pay a big price in payload for this.
#4
For a while I was concerned that if nuclear weapons were to used it would be between the Indians and Pakland. If the Mullahs are allowed to get their hands on the bomb all bets are off. Granted with enough weapons they could destroy Israel but at the cost of their own culture? I pray that even the Mullahs in Tehran aren't that dumb because it just might spread and would be sure to spill over to India and Pakland. The question is would it stop there?
The mullahs believe Allah will protect them from the consequences of their actions, because they are the beloved of God. Intelligence (or any thinking whatsoever)does not enter in to it. A major miscalculation, in my estimation, but then I'm not God (unless Heinlein was right, but that's another story).
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The first indication that Pakistan was back to playing a double game in the Kashmir Valley came in June from the LOC. Security forces reported a worrying surge in infiltration of militants from across the border. After the Islamabad agreement on January 6, 2004 between Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf and the then Indian prime minister A.B. Vajpayee to resume the dialogue process, infiltration had dropped to an average of 30 a month-a third of what it was during the same period last year. Even in May, when snow melts in the higher reaches and there is an expected surge in militant crossings, the level remained low. It lulled India into believing that Musharraf was keeping to his promise to restrain the jehadis and "not to permit any territory under Pakistan control to be used to support terrorism in any manner."
In June, however, alarm bells began ringing in India's intelligence agencies. Their informers reported streams of highly trained militants crossing the border from Neelam Valley in PoK into Kupwara and Baramulla. On the Jammu border, the infiltrators were slipping through in the Poonch and Rajouri sectors. The number of militants who had got through in June was put at 111, similar to what it was in the same month last year. In July too the tempo of infiltration remained high. Forces monitoring wireless communication among militants reported a significant rise in conversations between militant commanders and their henchmen.
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