For years, as many as 200 members of Immanuel Bible Church and their friends have gathered in the church's fellowship hall to watch the Super Bowl on its six-foot screen. The party featured hard hitting on the TV, plenty of food -- and prayer. But this year, Immanuel's Super Bowl party is no more. After a crackdown by the National Football League on big-screen Super Bowl gatherings by churches, the Springfield church has sacked its event. Instead, church members will host parties in their homes.
Immanuel is among a number of churches in the Washington area and elsewhere that have been forced to use a new playbook to satisfy the NFL, which said that airing games at churches on large-screen TV sets violates the NFL copyright.
Ministers are not happy. "There is a part of me that says, 'Gee, doesn't the NFL have enough money already?'" said Steve Holley, Immanuel's executive pastor. He pointed out that bars are still allowed to air the game on big-screens TV sets. "It just doesn't make sense."
Posted by: Fred ||
02/01/2008 10:37 ||
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#1
If they do it in a mosque, I'm sure it'll be OK.
#3
This isn't as egregious as it might seem. Copyright law requires to the holder to actively defend their copyright or lose it, so if they let this go they cannot later step in to stop the use of their material by others who are looking to profit by it's use in the same manner.
Posted by: Colin MacDougall ||
02/01/2008 12:08 Comments ||
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#4
Yes, and the original intent of the founding fathers was that copyright and patten be limited to around 30 years having suffered the royal prerogative of crown pattens and monopolies. However, the entertainment industry has bought enough of our Congresscritters to get them to extend it to effectively hundred years. My sympathy meter died that day.
Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) wants Goodell "to explain why the league destroyed evidence related to spying by the New England Patriots," according to The New York Times.
"That requires an explanation," Specter said. "The N.F.L. has a very preferred status in our country with their antitrust exemption. The American people are entitled to be sure about the integrity of the game. It's analogous to the C.I.A. destruction of tapes. Or any time you have records destroyed."
There seems to be a disagreement between Specter and the league office, too. Specter says he sent the league two letters about "Spygate." The league says it didn't receive the letters until last week.
The NFL's Joe Browne said the league has been in contact with Specter's office "several times in recent weeks" and "the issue of these letters was not discussed," the Times reported.
Specter said that was "untrue."
"It's the same old story," Mr. Specter said. "What you did is never as important as the cover-up. This sequence raises more concerns and doubts."
Hey, Arlen. The NFL dissed you but at least you get this great opportunity to grandstand. And we know ya love that...
#9
the NFL could cite Scottish Law and Arlen would be transfixed
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/01/2008 13:58 Comments ||
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#10
The public showing of the nfl is strictly prohibited. In the dorms, on drive in theatres etc. The protection of commerce should be inforced IMHO. So I agree with #3 as much as it upsets me. Why does it upset me? Because mojo got it right and the church played by rules and got screwed (good immigrants cough cough).
#11
In bars? In sports bars? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, does every bar that shows NFL games pay a royalty?
IANAL, but this smells of a violation of "fair use", and an abuse of the copyright laws.
Can they also tell me I can only watch the NFL in my living room, but not in the kitchen? I can have 5 friends at my house but not ten? I can serve beer while watching the game only if its from a company that sponsors the NFL? Where does it end?
You want complete control over your TV show, dont broadcast it.
#12
The leagues policy is modeled after the federal Copyright Act, and does not unfairly target churches, according to an NFL spokesman.
Our position on this is that we have absolutely no objection to churches and others hosting Super Bowl viewing parties as long as they dont charge admission and they show the game on a television of the type that is commonly used at home, said NFL spokesman Greg Aiello.
so can someone tell Samsung, the OFFICIAL TV maker of the NFL, that TVs larger than 55 inches arent meant for home use? Can someone tell Best Buy that as well.
#13
"Copyright law requires to the holder to actively defend their copyright or lose it, so if they let this go they cannot later step in to stop the use of their material by others who are looking to profit by it's use in the same manner. "
but the churches were NOT charging admission, AFAIK, or even selling anything ancillary. It comes down purely to the size of the screen.
#15
WND [paraph] > don't remem exact title or author right now, but I believe WND atikle was by pro-Xtian personage proclaiming the need for MORE OVERT, GROUP/COMMUNITY-ORIENTED, "TOTAL" CHRISTIANITY = FAITH, espec in THE SYMBOLS + HALLS OF PUBLIC GOVERNANCE??? I believe the author also proclaimed that [too much]INDIVIDUALISM = EQUALISM HAS RESULTED IN MASS CONFUSION + SOCIETAL STRIFES, GOVT-SOCIETY HAS LESS MORALITY/ETHICS, NOT MORE???
#21
Sorry, TU, no can do - Charger fan here. Healthy Rivers, Gates, and LT - different game. He's great in a great scheme, no doubt, but backed up by a great team.....we'll see how he does when the salary cap and scalphunters strip his players.... Favre, Marino, et al did well, regardless....
I'm just saying - great? yes. Best? We'll see.....
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/01/2008 21:35 Comments ||
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#22
Frank, wasn't SD healthy that first game between the two?
""It may take sometime to fix the cut but we are rerouting the traffic to another cable in the U.K. and U.S., the bandwidth utilization will go down," the official said."
#12
WAFF.com Thread > ITAR TASS > RUSSIA SENDS 12-PLANE BOMBER FORMATION OVER THE ARTIC. Part of 40-total AF-Navy AIREX. You name it - they sent/flew it.
Looks like it's time to fire up the printing presses again...
HARARE, Zimbabwe (AP) -- Zimbabwe's central bank has revealed that its annual inflation has climbed to 24,470 percent, by far the highest in the world -- but far short of independent estimates of 150,000 percent. Oh, good. They're getting a handle on it...
The state Herald newspaper raised its cover price threefold Friday, to 3 million Zimbabwe dollars (60 cents at the dominant black market exchange rate), the third increase since October.
Supermarket till slips show the price of chicken rose more than 236,000 percent to 15 million Zimbabwe dollars ($3) a kilogram between January 2007 and January 2008. Scarce eggs rose by 153,000 percent in the same period.
One of the lowest increases of about 64,000 percent was on sugar, bringing independent estimates for overall food inflation to about 164,000 percent.
School fees increased last month by 600 percent, and the price of scarce gasoline trebled in the past week. Rentals for housing and accommodation have soared.
#2
A Rantburger was lusting after the new 10 million Zim dollar bill. Boy will he feel inadequate when the 1 billion Zimbo comes out in 6 months.
Posted by: ed ||
02/01/2008 14:46 Comments ||
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#3
Ten Million will do me nicely, thank you, a online friend who lives near Zim-Bob land is trying to get a few notes now.
I only want to hang them on the wall in a picture frame. As a curiousity.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
02/01/2008 18:47 Comments ||
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#4
ION AFRICA, WAFF.com > GLOBALRESEARCH [long]- FORGOTTEN WARS: OVER FIVE MILLION DEAD IN THE CONGO.
#2
I dunno. Peace is a tall order. Maybe they could try a little truce-fire first, just to see how they like it. They can probably get a used one cheap from the Lankans. I don't think they're using their old one anymore.
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/01/2008 7:44 Comments ||
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#4
So Kofi, it's African Crisis management? That should keep you in limos and 5 star accomodations for the rest of your natural days. Maybe you can call in "The Elders" and all your old buddies can cash in...
A second Kenyan opposition lawmaker was shot dead on Thursday, and riots immediately exploded in opposition strongholds, putting the country increasingly on edge.
The lawmaker, David Kimutai Too, a former teacher from the volatile Rift Valley, was gunned down by a policeman in Eldoret. Kenyan government officials were quick to say the killing was a crime of passion connected to a love triangle. Opposition leaders called it an assassination. How can police call this an ordinary murder before any investigations? said William Ruto, an opposition leader. There is nothing ordinary about having two members of Parliament killed like this.
Political negotiations brokered by Kofi Annan, the former United Nations secretary general, were halted on Thursday because of the shooting, and the current secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, said he would travel to Nairobi on Friday to address the crisis.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/01/2008 00:00 ||
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Chad's army has been setting up defensive positions outside the capital N'Djamena as well as about 200 kilometers east to block a new allied rebel offensive. VOA's Nico Colombant reports from our regional bureau in Dakar.
Chadian military officials say long-time President Idriss Deby is going to the front to block the latest rebel advance, made up of fighters from several rebel groups. Officials say about two rebel columns, each with about 1,000 fighters, are about 200 kilometers east of the capital, near Lake Fitri, traveling in several hundred pick-up trucks. Meanwhile, the military has set up roadblocks at key intersections in the capital, where most schools were closed, and many civilians rushed home from work.
An exiled rebel spokesman, Makaila Nguebla, tells VOA the rebels are not afraid of Chad's army, and he predicts rebel fighters will make it to the capital. Nguebla says it is no longer a national army, but a clan-based fighting group with low morale. He says Mr. Deby must accept political dialogue, or face continuous rebel assaults.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/01/2008 00:00 ||
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An undersea cable carrying Internet traffic was cut off the Persian Gulf emirate of Dubai, officials said Friday, the third loss of a line carrying Internet and telephone traffic in three days. Even though it is probably an accident, I can't help but play with the idea of someone having done this as cover to install a tap somewhere else in the line far away and hopefully have things sewn up before less competant workers repair the nasty break caused by a boat anchor. I don't like conspiracy theories, but I just can't avoid wondering about this. Can TDR or something be used to detect this kind of thing after the cables are repaired? Probably not, it would seem. Does the US have visibility to these lines already somewhere? Do other countries think they need visibility?
Ships have been dispatched to repair two undersea cables damaged on Wednesday off Egypt. The ships were expected to reach the site of the break on Tuesday with repairs completed by February 12, according to a press release from FLAG Telecom, which owns one of the cables. Stephan Beckert, an analyst with TeleGeography, a research company that consults on global Internet issues, said those cables were likely damaged by ships' anchors. Were the lines in close proximity, or far apart?
The loss of the two Mediterranean cables FLAG Telecom's FLAG Europe-Asia cable and SeaMeWe-4, a cable owned by a consortium of more than a dozen telecommunications companies has snarled Internet and phone traffic from Egypt to India. Officials said Friday it was unclear what caused the damage to FLAG's FALCON cable about 50 kilometers off Dubai. A repair ship was en route, FLAG said.
Eric Schoonover, a senior analyst with TeleGeography, said the FALCON cable is designed on a "ring system," taking it on a circuit around the Persian Gulf and enabling traffic to be more easily routed around damage. Schoonover said the two cables damaged Wednesday collectively account for as much as three-quarters of the international communications between Europe and the Middle East, so their loss had a much bigger effect.
Without the use of the FLAG Europe-Asia cable and SeaMeWe-4, some carriers were forced to reroute their European traffic around the globe, which could cause delays, Beckert said. Other carriers could use SeaMeWe-3, an older cable that remained the only direct connection from Europe to the Middle East and Asia. Because this cable is older, it has a smaller capacity than the two damaged cables. Still, Beckert stressed that although the problem created a "big pain" for many of carriers, it did not compare to the several months of disruption in East Asia in 2006 after an earthquake damaged seven undersea cables near Taiwan.
TeleGeography Research Director Alan Mauldin said new cables planned to link Europe with Egypt should provide enough backup to prevent most similar problems in the future.
Schoonover said a similar Internet problem could not happen in the United States.
"We have all the content here," he said. "It's not going to be felt other than we won't get the BBC."
TeleGeography officials also said most traffic between the U.S., Canada and Mexico is carried over land, and there is a plentiful supply of undersea cables carrying traffic under the Atlantic and Pacific oceans.
Meanwhile, Internet service was slow Friday in Dubai and Egypt, where online service was intermittent, but there was less demand because many businesses in those countries aren't open on Fridays. Service providers in Egypt said they hoped to have improved capacity by Sunday.
Web surfers in India were experiencing a marked improvement in service, though graphic- or video-heavy sites were still taking longer to load. Most of the major Internet service providers in India, like Reliance and VSNL, were starting to use backup lines Friday, allowing service to slowly come back, said Rajesh Chharia, president of the Internet Services Providers Association of India. The Indian ISPs were still alerting customers to slowdowns over the next few days with service quality delays of 50 percent to 60 percent, he said.
The Internet slowdowns had no effect on trading at the country's two main stock exchanges, the SENSEX and the NSE, because they aren't dependent on the downed cables, Chharia said.
Individual Web users were still feeling the effects. Madhu Vohra, who lives in the city of Noida on the outskirts of Delhi, said she uses Internet phone service Skype to call her son in the United States, but she hasn't been able to reach him since the slowdown.
"We keep trying for a long time and the message comes up, 'This page can't display,' so finally we just turn the computer off and give up," Vohra said.
Internet cafes typically full of teenaged gamers are nearly empty with speeds still frustratingly slow.
"I felt like beating the ... modem, throwing it away, because we compete on the Internet and it feels really bad," said Aman Khurana, 13.
State-owned Dubai telecom provider Du and Kuwait's Ministry of Communications estimated Thursday that the problems might take two weeks to fix.
#2
3 cables in what .. 72 hours .. unheard of (if I'm wrong please correct me) .. this with the news that Iran internet access is now completely disrupted..?? this puts N Africa at 30 percent effective acess - especially Egypt (I read it is at 40 percent capacity) - and the mid east almost as bad...
... anyone with more info...??
Posted by: not so new postee ||
02/01/2008 19:52 Comments ||
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#3
Well it wasn't the robot subs. They have better things to do.
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/01/2008 10:06 ||
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#1
he effects of China's weather crisis on its economy worsened yesterday as the devastation of winter crops added to pressures on food prices. . . . Government figures said that snow had destroyed crops on 3,000 square miles of land. Wholesalers in Beijing reported that supplies of some foodstuffs were down to a fifth of normal levels. In areas directly affected by the snow, such as the central industrial cities of Wuhan and Changsha, food prices have reportedly already doubled.
Anyone ever read Red Storm Rising?
This could be a tipping event. It certainly bears watching.
#3
Big deal. So the Chinese will have to eat a few more canned veggies and a few more grain ships will call to port. This isn't the Great Leap Forward.
Let them eat McDonalds
/edward antoinette
Posted by: ed ||
02/01/2008 12:08 Comments ||
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#4
perhaps they should call lil' Kimmie and ask him for the NK recipes for tree bark' they gots lotsa' experience in not eating.....
#6
I greatly enjoyed Red Storm Rising - especially since I read it while the Cold War was still pretty hot.
(And Clancy sure nailed the moslem problem, didn't he? A lot of people thought that was pretty far-fetched then, but now it seems downright psychic.)
But wonder who the Chinese would "rise" against? There ain't exactly a Fulda Gap they can roll through to attack a prosperous nearly nation.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
02/01/2008 21:07 Comments ||
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#7
But wonder who the Chinese would "rise" against? There ain't exactly a Fulda Gap they can roll through to attack a prosperous nearly nation.
They rise against the center. It usually has more than enough of the food it forces the rest of the country to send as tribute. And the Chinese aren't as docile as the Ukrainians. I look for another empire to dismember itself. Whether a supreme warlord can put it back together is the question of the century.
Hey! Can they, like, do that? Man?
WASHINGTON U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., says the City of Berkeley, Calif., no longer deserves federal money. DeMint was angered after learning that the Berkeley City Council voted this week to tell the U.S. Marine Corps to remove its recruiting station from the city's downtown. "This is a slap in the face to all brave service men and women and their families," DeMint said in a prepared statement. "The First Amendment gives the City of Berkeley the right to be idiotic, but from now on they should do it with their own money. If the city cant show respect for the Marines that have fought, bled and died for their freedom, Berkeley should not be receiving special taxpayer-funded handouts," he added. Oh. Like, somebody pays fer..stuff? Gaia doesn't provide it? Like my medicinal marijuana? Like...wow. Man.
In the meantime, a senior Marine official tells FOX News that the Marine office in Berkeley isn't going anywhere. "We understand things are different there, but some people just don't get it. This is a part of the military machine that gives them the right to do what they do, but what they are doing is extreme," the official said. ...and we're just there for the hippie pussy anyways.
DeMint said he will draft legislation to rescind any earmarks dedicated for the City of Berkeley in the recently passed appropriations bill which his office tallied to value about $2.1 million. He said that any money taken back would be transferred to the Marines. Thanks, Berkeley! The USMC Appreciate your contribution to THE DEATH MACHINE!!! Thank Code Pink for us, too...
DeMint's office provided a preliminary list of items that would be subject to his proposal:
$975,000 for the University of California at Berkeley, for the Matsui Center for Politics and Public Service, which may include establishing an endowment, and for cataloguing the papers of Congressman Robert Matsui. Well, that certainly sounds important...
$750,000 for the Berkeley/Albana ferry service. I'd let them keep that. Would settle for them allowing the ferry to be used for practice F-18 strafing runs. Would liven up those commutes...
$243,000 for the Chez Panisse Foundation, for a school lunch initiative to integrate lessons about wellness, sustainability and nutrition into the academic curriculum. Chez Panisse? Is that a friggin restaurant?
$94,000 for a Berkeley public safety interoperability program. To practice for when they have the Big Earthquake and nobody else shows up.
$87,000 for the Berkeley Unified School District, nutrition education program. Like, eat your sprouts, Moonbeam.
The Marine official, speaking with FOX News on Friday, said Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway scoffed at the news, but there are no plans for to protest the City Council's decisions. There are definitely no plans to move the recruiting station either. Yeah, I...ummmmmmmm..."scoff" at it. "Scoff" at it, I tells ya!
There are definitely no plans to move the recruiting station either. "To actually put something into law that encourages the disruption of a federal office is ridiculous. They are not going to kick a federal office out of its rightful place there, and this is not going to discourage those young patriots who want to be Marines," the official said. Ah, if only this could actually happen...
#1
I sent out a less-than-civil email (yeah, surprising, I know...) to the entire City Council and Mayor, and got a civil response from Kriss Worthington of the Council:
Thanks for your email. Contrary to several newspaper reports, the City Council vote was 6-3 not 8-1.
I was one of the NO votes. I expect a correction to appear soon. Kriss W
While I'm glad the vote was closer, the effect is teh same. Boycott Berkeley
Posted by: Frank G ||
02/01/2008 13:51 Comments ||
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#2
BLOOD is A'BOILING:
Oakland Airport is messing with returning Soldiers and Marines. It's an important airport because it's straight across the Bay from SFA and absorbs the overload.
CUT every federal dollar to Oakland, Beserkely, and San Fran Freak-O.
Every road dollar, school dollar, Food, Teacher dollar, Police, Sherrif, jail, subsidy, Homeland security , BART [subway], Bridge, FireHouse and Fireman etc.
If the Federal officals would have the guts to cut even one thousand dollars, these jellyfish fags and pols would scream bloody murder.
#4
I know, I know Berkeley has produced several impressive achievements in its science and computi,g departments but I ever had the impression, pehaps from too much watching "The Graduate" that it was the chemically pure paradigm of the university for rich white kids with too much time in their hands. Am I wrong?
IIRC, it's about the most insufferable, elitist, patronizing idea for a restaurant ever: the head chef decides on the menu based on what's available from the local markets (organic, whole foods, locally-grown, yada*3) with very little lead time and lots of ridiculous "fusion cuisine" ideas and politically-correct ambiance thrown in. The wait for a table is MONTHS, so you have no idea what will be served when you go. Of course, it costs an arm and a leg+, so you're essentially obligated to love whatever you get.
I have no doubt the food can be delicious, but, even if I could afford it, the rest of the shtick would make me lose my appetite.
#7
If Sen. Jim Damit! Demint should threaten to spend the $2 Million on pot sniffing dogs that will from noon till 4 PM each week (which is the bull horn permitted time for the pinko panties) to go sniffing house to house, car to car, starting with the car parked in the free Code Pinko commie parking spot in front of the USMC office.
Yawl go easy on our brothers on the council, dudes. Like, man, they been getting nothing but bad weed lately which ain't helpfull to the decision making abilities.
#9
"...I ever had the impression, pehaps from too much watching "The Graduate" that it was the chemically pure paradigm of the university for rich white kids with too much time in their hands. Am I wrong?"
Yes, I'm afraid so. The kids there these days are much more likely to be from poor Asian than rich white stock. And, on the whole, they haven't got much time for this silliness, the kids have to work hard at Berkeley. There is a leftoid tint to the place (the university), but not more than at most universities. The City of Berkeley, though, is settled in large part by graduates who never moved away (what does that tell you ?), and these people elect just the kind of time-on-their-hands dilettantes you have in mind.
Holy shit! It is a friggin restaurant!! And a damn fine chichi one from looking at the menu as I just did!
Think you could maybe drop the entree prices down from the eighty five buck range, seeing how you're already raking in a quarter million bucks from the Feds which probably already includes some of mine? Power to the People, right! Unfuckinbelievable...I'll bet Pelosi's in there twice a week when she's in "the district"...
#11
Thank you Buwaya. I meant that in my impression Berkeley was more hippy, more wacko but also less serious and science oriented than MIT, Caltec and GeorgiaTech. Thinking it better my impression based on the acts of those wackos was perhaps more accurate for describing the people who have studied at Berkeley in the mast years/decades than to people studying at it, now;
ABC News' Sarah Amos Reports: Former President Bill Clinton took the phrase "on-message" to a new level in Denver yesterday, when hecklers began shouting about how September 11th was a conspiracy theory that needed further investigation.
Clinton had just begun his speech to the crowd, when a man towards the front of the crowd began shouting about re-opening the 9/11 investigation and the war in Iraq.
When the crowd tried to boo the man into silence, Clinton continued: "Let him talk."
"Nine-eleven was NOT an inside job, it was an Osama Bin Laden job with 19 people from Saudi Arabia, they murdered 3000 Americans and others foreigners including Muslims and we look like idiots, that the people who murdered our fellow citizens did it, when they are continuing to murder other people around the world. So we heard from you, you go away," Clinton said "
Am I the only one, or does it seem a tad suspicious that this is coming out just now? Whether true or not, it seems to me that this is a stragegic move from the beginning of the race that involves muzzling lots of Dems until just the right moment. Or it's been recently fabricated. And again, depending on who initiated this, in either of these cases, it tells me who the Dems' worst nightmare is.
Sen. John McCain (RINO-Ariz.) was close to leaving the Republican Party in 2001, weeks before then-Sen. Jim Jeffords (Vt.) famously announced his decision to become an Independent, according to former Democratic lawmakers who say they were involved in the discussions.
In interviews with The Hill this month, former Sen. Tom Daschle (D-S.D.) and ex-Rep. Tom Downey (D-N.Y.) said there were nearly two months of talks with the maverick lawmaker following an approach by John Weaver, McCains chief political strategist.
Democrats had contacted Jeffords and then-Sen. Lincoln Chafee (R-R.I.) in the early months of 2001 about switching parties, but in McCains case, they said, it was McCains top strategist who came to them.
At the end of their March 31, 2001 lunch at a Chinese restaurant in Bethesda, Md., Downey said Weaver asked why Democrats hadnt asked McCain to switch parties.
Downey, a well-connected lobbyist, said he was stunned.
Youre really wondering? Downey said he told Weaver. What do you mean youre wondering?
Well, if the right people asked him, Weaver said, according to Downey, adding that he responded, The calls will be made. Who do you want? Weaver this week said he did have lunch with Downey that spring, pointing out that he and Downey are very good friends.
He claims, however, that Downey is grossly mischaracterizing their exchange: We certainly didnt discuss in any detail about the senators political plans and any discussion about party-switchers, generically, would have been limited to the idle gossip which was all around the city about the [Democrats] aggressive approach about getting any GOP senator to switch in order to gain the majority. Nothing more or less than that.
Downey said Weaver is well aware that their discussion was much more than typical Washington chit-chat.
Within seconds of arriving home from his lunch with Weaver, Downey said he was on the phone to the most powerful Democrats in town. One of the first calls he made was to then-Senate Minority Leader Daschle.
I did take the call from Tom [Downey], Daschle said in an interview. It was Weavers comment to Downey that started the McCain talks, he added.
Daschle noted that McCain at that time was frustrated with the Bush administration as a result of his loss to George W. Bush in the 2000 Republican primary.
Daschle said that throughout April and May of 2001, he and McCain had meetings and conversations on the floor and in his office, I think in mine as well, about how we would do it, what the conditions would be. We talked about committees and his seniority [A lot of issues] were on the table.
Absolutely not so, according to McCain. In a statement released by his campaign, McCain said, As I said in 2001, I never considered leaving the Republican Party, period.
Some of the meetings Daschle referred to are detailed in the former senators 2003 book.
Other senators who played major roles in the intense recruiting effort, according to Democrats, were then-Sen. John Edwards (D-N.C.) as well as Sens. Edward Kennedy (Dickhead-Mass.) and Harry Reid (Dickless-Nev.).
John [Edwards] at that time was working with McCain on a couple things and there was a sense that because of his relationship that he might be a good person to talk to him, Daschle said. He was clearly one of those that we thought could be helpful.
A source close to Edwards said Daschles comments are accurate.
Daschle also said, Both Sen. Reid and I talked to [McCain] both individually and together.
Several former McCain aides who worked for the senator in 2001 and are now in the private sector did not return phone calls seeking comment.
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), a longtime friend of McCains, said yesterday, I have never heard one word from Johns mouth to suggest he was going to leave the Republican Party. These are political-intrigue stories that have no basis in fact.
Speculation about McCains flirtations with becoming an Independent surfaced in the press throughout 2001.
In one article, Marshall Wittman, a McCain loyalist and strategist six years ago, put the odds of McCain leaving the Republican Party at 50-50. Wittman, who now works for Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-Conn.), declined to comment for this article. A source said that Wittmans comment at that time was completely based on speculation.
McCain consistently shot down the rumors, though Weaver acknowledged this week that the senator did talk to Democrats about leaving the GOP.
He said McCain was invited to a meeting in Kennedys office with several other Democratic senators but didnt know what the meeting was for and left soon thereafter. Weaver added that Edwards approached McCain on the Senate floor to discuss the matter.
Daschle, however, said the talks went much further, claiming that there were times that he and Democratic leaders thought McCain might be our best opportunity. Daschle stressed that McCain never considered becoming a Democrat, but was close to becoming an Independent.
Downey said, I actually thought during the initial stages of this that [McCain leaving the Republican Party] was almost a certain deal.
Weaver, who changed his party affiliation to Democrat several years ago, said he respects Daschle and Downey, but added, Theyre partisan Democrats and were in the political season.
Told of Weavers version of what happened, Daschle said, Obviously, our recollection of what transpired is somewhat different.
Daschle first made some of these assertions in little-noticed parts of his book, titled Like No Other Time: The 107th Congress and the Two Years That Changed America Forever.
The book states that in 2001, Daschle and other Democrats were attempting to persuade three Republicans to leave their party: Jeffords, Chafee, and McCain.
Asked which one was the closest to committing, Daschle answered, Depended on the day.
On page 62, Daschle wrote that McCain and Chafee seemed like real possibilities to bolt their party. He pointed out that few, if any, of McCains people were hired by the Bush administration.
John didnt think that was right, Daschle wrote, that his staff should be penalized like that.
Chafee confirmed to The Hill this week that he had meetings with Democrats about changing parties in 2001 because he was alarmed at the differences between President Bushs campaign promises and the policies coming out of his administration.
Weaver said he hasnt read Daschles book, which does not mention the Downey-Weaver lunch.
Mark Salter, who in 2001 was McCains chief of staff and now works for the senators campaign, said McCain has not at any moment thought about leaving the Republican Party: Never at any time. Never.
Salter said there were no staff discussions about this issue, noting he would have been in on them.
Soon after Bush was inaugurated as the nations 43rd president, McCain was working with Democrats on many issues, ranging from gun control to healthcare to campaign-finance reform.
McCains links to Democrats were so clear that Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) now a close ally of McCain publicly criticized him in the early part of 2001 for keeping unusual company.
Jeffords pulled the trigger on May 24, 2001, throwing control of the Senate to Democrats. Chafee and McCain then broke off their discussions with Democratic leaders, according to Democrats.
Downey said he talked to Weaver at least once a week during McCains discussions with Democrats, asking him questions like, What is the state of play? and Where are we?
Weaver was very active in this, Downey said, None of this happens without Weaver.
The Democrats claims about McCain come as the senator is courting the Republican base for his 2008 White House bid. Other frontrunners for the GOP nomination have raised some eyebrows in conservative circles. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney (R) voted for Democratic Sen. Paul Tsongas (Mass.) in 1992, while ex-New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (R) endorsed then-New York Gov. Mario Cuomo (D) a couple years later.
Asked why this news hasnt come out before, Downey said, Its a mystery to me. And in fact, the last time Weaver and I had dinner together [on April 26, 2006], we laughed about this Its never been written about, never got in the paper.
He denied any political motivation, saying he is still friends with Weaver and deeply respects McCain. I would have been happy to come forward last year or the year before if someone had asked There were meetings in offices. You cant deny [these meetings took place]. They occurred.
Downey added, Its my hope that John McCain is the Republican nominee because from my perspective, although I think Democrats are going to win, if they dont, McCain is the sort of man I would feel comfortable [with] as the president of the United States. Im not trying to hurt him.
Daschle said he doesnt believe the new revelations will hurt McCain. Everyone has known John McCain to be independent, to take his own course. That was a time in his life when he at least weighed the possibility of becoming an independent, but he rejected it, so I cant imagine that can ever be used as a political liability.
On June 2, 2001, The Washington Post ran a front-page story with the headline McCain is Considering Leaving GOP; Arizona Senator Might Launch a Third-Party Challenge to Bush in 2004.
The article, written in the wake of the Jeffordss announcement, noted that Daschle and his wife were visiting the McCains at the senators home in Arizona for what was billed by McCains office as a social event. But by that time, McCain had decided to stay a Republican, according to Daschle.
In his book, Daschle wrote that plans for the June weekend getaway were made months earlier when McCain was mulling changing his party affiliation.
As the media camped outside the senators vacation house in Sedona, Ariz., Daschle and McCain discussed what an incredible piece of history Jim Jeffords had just written, Daschle wrote. Nothing was said about John doing the same thing. I think we both knew that wasnt going to happen, not now.
McCain and Bush settled their differences before the presidents reelection campaign in 2004, when McCain strongly backed his former nemesis after reportedly rejecting an offer from Sen. John Kerry (Dickweed-Mass.) to become his vice presidential nominee. Last year, McCain aggressively stumped for dozens of GOP candidates.
#1
I'm not buying it. I agree with gorb about the timing. In addition, a guy who spent 5 years plus in the Hanoi Hilton embracing the party of people who rooted for the North Vietnamese? What're the odds of that?
McCain has his flaws, and he has a fighter-pilot's ego that can be grating--but if it's a credibility duel between him and Tom Daschle, it's no contest.
Posted by: Mike ||
02/01/2008 8:32 Comments ||
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#2
If McCain were the dem/media "worst nightmare" (which I don't buy), then McCain would not have gotten this far. They'd be revisiting the K-5 scandal as if it were the worst case of corruption ever.
I think the dem/media are working for a McCain nomination so they can trounce him in November. Therefore I suspect this story comes from a current McCain oppenent (or enemy).
Posted by: Captain Lewis ||
02/01/2008 8:47 Comments ||
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#3
If it were a Republican dirty trick, this wouldn't be running in the Hill, which IIRC tends to be a DNC outlet. More likely this is a mainline Dem bomb aimed to knock down the most dangerous surviving candidate in the Republican primaries, from their point of view.
This probably isn't a Hillary operation, the Clintons are too busy fighting for their life in their own primaries to be spending scarce MSM resources on afterprimary prepwork. It's probably exactly what it looks like - out-of-office DNC types looking to knife the Republican frontrunner in an attempt to get back into the good graces of the eventual Democratic nominee.
And I'd give this story about a 25% chance of being true. McCain can be damned stupid when he's pissed. On the other hand, there's a 50% chance that it's partially true, in that Weaver was trying to put something together on his own hook, and is lying about it now because he didn't really have authorization from McCain to talk with Downey, and was just hoping to ask for forgiveness in a later which never came. The rest of it would just be idiot senators hearing what they were expecting to hear from objectively innocuous conversations with McCain himself
The last 25% is that this is pure black-hearted calumny, and Daschle & Downey are lying their asses off.
Interestingly enough, Downey has a history of being involved with DNC dirty trick operations. He was the actual recipient of the Bush debate preparation materials in the run-up to the 2000 presidential debates.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
02/01/2008 9:47 Comments ||
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#4
This came out MONTHS ago, about 10 to be precise. It's only now that traction is under it because of McCains status of frontrunner. They have a discussion about this over at HotAir.
Posted by: Charles ||
02/01/2008 10:58 Comments ||
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#5
My local Fox station did an segment on political dirty tricks a month back. It showed how the DNC had put an anti-McCain page out on Youtube pretending to be a Huckabee attack add.
You can bet that the Dems have plenty of negative material against McCain and are trying to make sure conservative voters sit this election out.
Whenever you hear things like this remember McCain's conservative rating: 82%.
Al
Posted by: Frozen Al ||
02/01/2008 11:52 Comments ||
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#6
I dunno - I heard rumors about this at that time. then there's McCain flirting with being Kerry's VP.
John McCain is untrustworthy, a two-faced liar, and a stubborn egomaniac. So that certainly puts it within the realm of possibilites that he would leave the GOP in a fit of anger.
John McCain rarely lets lack of information and expertise stand in his way. Iraq, of course, is a notable exception.
But what about McCain's other positions? He opposes drilling in ANWR because, in his words, the area is "pristine" (which in this case means barren) and he "wouldn't drill in the Grand Canyon." Has any candidate ever presented a less serious analysis of an important policy question?
He opposes waterboarding in part because "torture doesn't work." Maybe the things the North Vietnamese did to him at the Hanoi Hilton didn't work, but we know from eye-witness accounts that waterboarding worked. When asked about this, McCain essentially accused the CIA of lying.
McCain's tendency to make snap judgments based on prejudice rather than information, and his hostility to information that doesn't conform to his prejudices, is perhaps the most frightening aspect of candidacy.
And that doesnt even factor in his repeated smear of Romney with a repeated lie about Romney's support for the surge, nor does it account for his lying denail of calling Justice Alito "too conservative", nor his two-faced immigration stance by employing a former Mexican Cabinet minister and failing to disclaim Juan Hernandez's statements that he wants Americans to think "Mexico First" even as 7th generation Americans and wants open borders.
#7
This came up back in 2002. Some of his staffers jumped ship to the Democrats that year. The topic came up again in 2004.
McCain won't jump ship because his ego won't let him. For him, hanging on and angling for control of the GOP is better revenge than ending up a Benedict Arnold in a donkey-suit.
#9
If McCain runs, Bloomberg has a chance. I think he's Bob Dole all over again - a centrist guy whose weakness with the conservative base opens up the field to a third party run.
I kinda liked it when they were dissing and ripping each others' eyes out, but this is much better. I guess they saw Romney and McCain going at it the other night and thought they needed to improve their act. Besides, they may need to run on the same ticket someday soon. I'd like to see a few questions on leadership styles and their philosophies about anger, conflict resolution, etc. Maybe even a question about what they think their opponenent has done right for a change. It might take a few weeks to get past the loaded answers, though.
Democratic rivals Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama spent their last debate before next week's Super Tuesday contests pointing out differences on Iraq, health care and the economy but without all of the finger-pointing that's marked their campaigns.
The exchange was in sharp contrast to previous debates because of the absence of political sniping, yet was one of the most substantive policy discussions yet in the race for the nomination.
On Iraq, Obama said he'd be more able to end the war because he opposed it from the beginning. He said Clinton's vote to authorize the use of force there would undermine her efforts to bring it to an end.
"I think it is much easier for us to have the argument when we have a nominee who says, 'I always thought this was a bad idea this was a bad strategy,' " he said.
Clinton defended her vote, saying she was told by the White House that it would be used initially to return weapons inspectors to see whether Saddam Hussein had an active weapons program. See where they stand on Iraq
"I believe strongly that we needed to put inspectors in," the New York senator said. "That was the underlying reason why I at least voted to give President Bush the authority, put those inspectors in, let them do their work, figure out what is there and what isn't."
Both Obama and Clinton said they support ending the war.
On health care, Obama defended a plan he says would make insurance affordable to everyone who wants it, but not require everyone to buy it.
The Illinois senator said his proposal would require that all children be covered and allow young people to remain on their parents' health insurance up to age 25 but would not require adults to purchase care.
"Every expert who looks at it says there won't be anybody out there who wants health care who will not be able to get it," he said.
Clinton, who as first lady spearheaded her husband's ultimately failed health care reform effort in the early '90s, argued that any health plan should offer universal coverage.
"It is so important that as Democrats, we carry the banner of universal health care," she said.
Clinton noted her experience pushing her husband's plan, saying she's best suited to hammer out the details of a new plan and create "a coalition that can withstand the insurance and the prescription drug companies."
The pair praised former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards, who dropped out of the Democratic race this week. Both are vying for his supporters.
The Democratic race remains close going into Super Tuesday, when more than 20 states including California and New York will vote.
Obama won the season-opening Iowa caucuses, then finished second to Clinton in every contest until last week's South Carolina primary which he won with a commanding 55 percent of the vote in a three-way race.
Clinton scored victories in the New Hampshire primary and Nevada caucuses.
She also was the top vote-getter in Florida and Michigan, although no Democrats campaigned in those states and their delegates to the nominating convention will not count because of a squabble between state and national party leaders over the timing of the primaries.
Thursday's debate differed from the last time the two took to a stage together at a contentious January 21 debate in South Carolina in which the front-runners peppered each other with sharp attacks.
In contrast, on Thursday the two smiled, laughed at each other's jokes and repeatedly complimented the other when they agreed.
Obama got laughs when asked about how he might counter Republican charges against "tax-and-spend liberal Democrats."
"Well, first of all, I don't think the Republicans are going to be in a real strong position to argue fiscal responsibility, when they have added $4 trillion or $5 trillion worth of national debt. I am happy to have that argument," he said.
Clinton drew cheers when she responded to a question about how a Clinton could promote change after decades of a Clinton or Bush in power.
"It did take a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush, and I think it might take another one to clean up after the second Bush," she said.
The longest and loudest applause line of the night came when CNN's Wolf Blitzer noted that many Democrats have said they'd like to see a Clinton-Obama or Obama-Clinton ticket in November.
Neither ruled out the possibility of selecting the other as a running mate.
"The debate was a rallying debate for Democrats," said CNN senior political analyst Bill Schneider. "Democrats like both of them, they continue to like both of them, and they want to vote for both of them."
Schneider said the cordial tone probably helped both candidates. Obama continued momentum from his victory in the South Carolina primary and high-profile endorsements, including Sen. Ted Kennedy and Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius. Clinton probably maintained her perceived status as the front-runner.
"I'm not sure that he turned the election around," Schneider said. "He is the challenger here he's got to persuade people they don't want to vote for her."
The debate, sponsored by CNN, the Los Angeles Times and Politico.com, was held at Los Angeles' Kodak Theatre, where the Academy Awards are handed out.
Hundreds, if not thousands, of Clinton and Obama supporters thronged outside the venue cheering and waving signs.
The numerous actors, directors and musicians in the audience included Stevie Wonder, Pierce Brosnan, Rob Reiner, Jason Alexander, Isaiah Washington, Diane Keaton, Leonardo DiCaprio, Quentin Tarantino and Christina Applegate.
Mike Gravel, the other Democratic presidential candidate still in the race, was not invited to participate in the debate because he did not meet certain criteria, including support in national polls. In a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll conducted January 14-17, Gravel received less than 1 percent.
#1
"I believe strongly that we needed to put inspectors in," the New York senator said. "That was the underlying reason why I at least voted to give President Bush the authority, put those inspectors in, let them do their work, figure out what is there and what isn't."
Ahhh .behold, we have another display of the archetypical Weasel-Speak that has become the hallmark of the Clintonian legacy. Senator Clinton knew full well, in 2002, the consequences of not securing a UN resolution for unfettered inspections. She appears to have taken advantage of the infectious nature of her husbands pathological deception. Its also fortunate for her to have a team of lawyerly wordsmiths that conveniently craft loopholes whenever she doesnt have the courage to stand behind her own convictions.
So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed.
Perhaps there's a reason why 'Bamer wants an Islamic summit and an immediate withdrawal from Iraq ...
An undeclared $3.5 million (£1.8 million) payment from a corrupt Iraqi-British businessman has landed Barack Obamas former fundraiser behind bars. The payment, disclosed in court papers, is the first time that Mr Obamas long-serving bagman Antoin Tony Rezko, a Syrian immigrant to the United States, has been linked to Nadhmi Auchi, the Iraqi-born billionaire who is one of Britains richest men. The relationship is a potential embarrassment for Mr Obama, who has made his opposition to the Iraq war a central plank of his campaign.
In the distance I hear a cackle ...
Court papers describe Mr Rezko as a close friend of Mr Auchi. The two are involved in a large Chicago land development together. But it is unclear how long the two men have known each other or whether they were linked before the 2003 Iraq war. Neither side would discuss their relationship.
The Times has, however, discovered state documents in Illinois recording that Fintrade Services, a Panamanian company, lent money to Mr Obamas fundraiser in May 2005. Fintrades directors include Ibtisam Auchi, the name of Mr Auchis wife. Mr Auchis spokespeople declined to respond to a question about whether he was linked to this business.
Mr Rezko, to be tried for corruption this month, had his bail revoked on Monday after he disobeyed a courts instructions to keep it informed of changes to his finances. Prosecutors feared that he could try to flee abroad. The property developer has been condemned by Hillary Clinton as a slum landlord.
She had a chance to call him that to his face; wonder if she ever did ...
According to prosecution documents Mr Rezko tried to persuade unnamed Illinois officials to help Mr Auchi to get a US visa after he was convicted of fraud in France. Mr Obamas aides deny that he was approached.
"No, no, certainly not!"
Mr Rezko has been indicted for pressuring companies seeking state business for kickbacks and campaign contributions, although none for Mr Obama. He was granted bail in October 2006. He told a judge that he had no access to overseas money. But in April 2007 Mr Auchis business, General Mediterranean Holding (GMH), wired $3.5 million to Mr Rezko from a bank account in Beirut via a law firm.
Mr Auchi has attracted attention at Westminster because of his closeness to politicians and the Establishment. He says that his brother was executed by Saddam Husseins regime. His business partners in Britain have included Lord Steel of Aikwood, the former Liberal leader, and Keith Vaz, the Labour MP and Home Affairs Committee chairman.
On the 20th anniversary of his business in 1999, Mr Auchi received a greeting card signed by 130 politicians, including Tony Blair, William Hague and Charles Kennedy, who were then leaders of their respective parties.
Norman Lamb, the Liberal Democrat MP, went on to table parliamentary questions asking why the Blair Government appeared slow to respond to a French extradition request. Mr Lamb said last night: Its a matter of public interest to understand why the payments were made. This deserves thorough investigation.
Mr Auchi founded GMH in 1979, a year before he left Iraq. He says that he did business with his native country when it was considered a friend of the West but ceased to trade with Saddams regime once sanctions were imposed after the invasion of Kuwait.
US prosecution documents recall Mr Auchis suspended jail sentence and 2 million fine for corruption in France five years ago. Defence lawyers said that Mr Auchi lent the $3.5 million for legal and family expenses. Most of the money had gone directly to law firms and there had been no attempt to flee. While the Government attempts to besmirch Mr Auchis character, they said, he is one of Britains wealthiest men, has been a guest at the White House and met with two of the last three presidents, was Co-Chair of the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, is President of the Anglo-Arab Organisation, and has received numerous awards and honorary positions from heads of state, including Queen Elizabeth II, Pope John Paul II, and King Abdullah II of Jordan.
He flosses, too.
Mr Auchis lawyers added: Mr Auchi flatly and categorically denies any wrongdoing in relation to the matters that led to his conviction in France and he is pursuing an appeal against it. Mr Auchi is also suing the oil company Elf in France for dragging him unwittingly into the scandal.
How could anyone be unwitting in any dealing with Elf?
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/01/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
"There's no retiring from this."
Posted by: T. Soprano ||
02/01/2008 3:12 Comments ||
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#2
Mr Rezko has been indicted for pressuring companies seeking state business for kickbacks and campaign contributions, although none for Mr Obama.
HA! Amatuer!!
Posted by: A Former President and Spouse ||
02/01/2008 9:09 Comments ||
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#3
There's dirt out there to be dug. And Karl is on duty and digging. How's about Billy taking millions in payout for setting up the Canadian in the uranium mining business in Kazakistan ?
John Edwardss withdrawal from the presidential contest has touched off a scramble for his supporters by the two leading Democratic candidates, Senators Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton. This morning, Mr. Obamas New York office announced that four Edwards delegate candidates in New York City had switched their support to the Illinois senator.
In the 14th Congressional District, which includes the East Side of Manhattan and part of Queens, Betsy Feist and Jeremiah Frei-Pearson are supporting Mr. Obama now. So are two delegate candidates Marc A. Landis, a Democratic district leader, and Bobby Berlin in the 8th Congressional District, which includes the West Side of Manhattan and a part of southern Brooklyn. The significance of the endorsements is more symbolic than practical. Mr. Edwardss name will still be on the ballot, but he wont received any delegates in any Congressional district unless he gets at least 15 percent of the vote.
Posted by: Fred ||
02/01/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
Meanwhile, back at Castle Breck...the brooding continues.
#3
Does the dummy McClain think that the Schwarze is well liked and respected by the California Republican Party after he has sold them out repeatedly and joined the Mexican Mafia in the legislature? Fool. Rino embracing Rino.
#5
Schwarzenegger is the most popular politician in California, by far. Just like Bill Clinton, if he were able to run beyond his second term he would be a shoo-in. Thems the facts, palatable or otherwise. RINO or not, he carries weight. An endorsement by the ideologically pure but irrelevant would be irrelevant.
Back in the day I had some dealings with leftist factions (in my old country), and they acted much like Republican factionalists sometimes do here, and more so now than I have ever seen. The lesson to learn is that those leftist factionalists were irrelevant in large part because they were such factionalists, and hated each other so passionately over what to outsiders seemed like minor ideological differences. They could not take half a loaf or drink out of the half-full glass. Perspective is necessary.
If Romeny doesn't pull out a miracle on Tuesday we are doomed. Nobody I know (and I know lots and lots of Trunks) is going to vote for McCain. We will all stay home and Hillary will win. Frankly, he is a Donk. I would rather Hillary be the President than him because at least in 2010 we would have a good chance at picking up some seats in congress as the out-of-power party.
#8
"I would rather Hillary be the President than him because at least in 2010 we would have a good chance at picking up some seats in congress as the out-of-power party."
My old Spanish granny would have called this a "consuelo de bobo" - a foolish rationalization. There is no reason to expect a shift to Republicans in Congress as a result of Democrats holding the Presidency, and certainly not enough to take back control. Its just an excuse to persist in unrealistic thinking.
#10
Thank you for the useful perspective, buwaya. I'm looking forward to all this being over, so we can get back to concentrating on the war. Although, I'm not looking forward to discovering which Rantburgers get so upset over ideological differences that they leave in a huff and never come back. Too many of my favourite people disappeared after 2004, and I miss their insights dreadfully.
#1
Given that we know so much about what this vaccine does in animals, it would be useful to see what it can do in people,'' he said in a telephone interview. ``I don't think the T-cell vaccines are dead because of this.''
This is exactly the reason that it is too bad that they will be limiting the human studies. It is a difficult problem in that obviously you don't want to test products that will make people more prone to getting the HIV virus. But what good is it to test animals if there is no way to transfer the knowlege to human subjects?
#2
Merck halted a study, called STEP, in September after an unanticipated finding: people who got the vaccine were more likely to contract HIV than those who didn't.
I suppose there was a control group who didn't get the vaccine, and that they fared significantly better?
Maybe the people who got the vaccine thought they could engage in more behaviors that would lead to transmission of the infection than those who did not. Not that they'd admit to it.
How's this for an alternate approach. Identify healthy people who have the disease and show no deterioration associated with the disease. They might, just might, have a 'natural' immunity the little bugger can't deal with. Then do a gnome check to see if there are consistent variances between that group and the rest of us. From that develop a prophylactic. Of course that might not involve all the money set aside for academic and medical research that delivered squat for the last two decades. That would be embarrassing.
Amazing, it has blue-white exhaust but no smoke rings like True Lies
DAHLGREN, Va. A futuristic weapon getting a trial run by the Navy demonstrated its destructive power at the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Dahlgren.
In the demonstration Thursday, engineers fired the electromagnetic railgun at what they said was a record power level: 10 megajoules.
The previous railgun power-use record was about 9 megajoules of muzzle energy.
ailguns use electromagnetic energy to launch projectiles long distances more than 200 nautical miles.
Because the railgun uses electricity and not gunpowder to fire projectiles, it eliminates the possibility of explosions on ships. I would say mitigates, not eliminates
The Navy hopes the railgun will eventually replace the standard 5-inch gun on its ships. The weapon isn't expected to be deployed until at least 2020.
[A joule is defined as the energy needed to produce one watt of electricity for one second.
The railgun tested Thursday actually has a capacity of 32 megajoules, but the Navy is slowly building up the energy level in a series of tests.
That's a lot of power, but with a new series of electrically-powered ships coming on line, the Navy figures generating capacity will not be a problem.
According to the Navy, the railgun, when fully developed, will be able to launch solid projectiles at Mach 5, or about 3,700 mph.
All we need is a good energy source. I wonder how this compares to laser weapons in various ways?
#3
The background story to military railguns is also very interesting.
Several technical breakthroughs suddenly made it possible. For example, the capacitor needed to store the energy, just a few years ago, would have had to have been so large that you needed a railroad flatcar to carry it. But it has been reduced to the size of a large suitcase.
More problematic is the inductor, producing a magnetic field so powerful that unshielded, it might make the hull of the ship "meet in the middle", which is not recommended in the tech manual.
Then all that energy flows into a thin conductive diaphragm, like a drumhead, behind the projectile. This vaporizes it and turn it into a "conductive plasma".
The projectile itself is usually an advanced ceramic, which in some railguns is cylindrical with blunt ends, aerodynamics being completely different at 7km/sec or so.
When the field artillery version hit a target tank, at such speed, the *surface tension* of steel comes into play. The hull of the tank acts like it was made of ice or glass, hit by a bullet and shattering.
#9
I'm guessing friction from the projectile and barrel, plasma from electrical arcing, and Mach 7.5 air friction ablation of the projectile.
Posted by: ed ||
02/01/2008 16:44 Comments ||
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#10
And to note.. eventually the Navy plans on deploying a 64 MJ variant that can hit targets at 200 nautical miles away. To put this in perspective the current generation of 5in guns onboard vessels achieves a muzzle energy of around 10 MJ. ERGM (Extended Range Guided Munition) and LRLAP (Long Range Land Attack Projectile) may gain between 18-33 MJ eventually. To put this further into perspective the above mentioned weapons would at their terminal phase deliver between 2 and 8 MJ on target respectively, compared to approximately 17 MJ on the target even at 200+ nautical miles for the railgun.
#12
ed: I was thinking the artillery sized rail gun. Of course the naval version is a heck of a lot more in every dimension. However, again by comparison, you can imagine how enormous an old style capacitor would have to be.
#17
CHINESE MIL FORUM > PRAVDA - USA ABSOLUTELY DEFENSELESS FROM ATTACK BY RUSSIA OR CHINA. CMF Poster - argues that China should perhaps nuke one or two cities in Mexico instead to cause Mexi massive/overwhelming refugee flood into USA.
ALso from CMF > ANALYSIS [UPI]: CHINA BEATS WEST IN AFRICA + TAIWAN LANDS ON THE SPRATLYS + CHINA'D EXPANDING NAVAL PRESENCE TROUBLES NEIGHBORS. TOPIX > CHINA CALLS FOR MORE TRADE, MILITARY COOPERATION WITH INDIA, [smaller]ASIAN STATES.
BANGKOK - Military-run Myanmar has detained 1,864 political prisoners, including 706 dissidents arrested during the juntas bloody crackdown on protests last year, an exiled opposition group said on Friday. The report by the Thailand-based Assistance Association for Political Prisoners (Burma) also said that prisoners are being tortured and denied adequate drinking water and food. While in detention, many detainees were denied access to proper medical care, said the group of former political prisoners who maintain contact with prisons around the country.
That's sorta how things work when thugs imprison innocent people ...
The report mirrored findings by Amnesty International, which last week said the regime holds at least 1,850 political prisoners, including about 700 arrested during the juntas deadly suppression of anti-government protests in September. The report was released just one day after Aung San Suu Kyis National League for Democracy (NLD) issued a sharply worded statement accusing prison guards of abusing detainees and denying them medical care.
Mass protests led by Buddhist monks in September were the biggest challenge to the junta in nearly two decades, but the regime violently quashed the movement, killing at least 31 people and leaving 74 missing, according to the United Nations. On Thursday, Human Rights Watch said about 100 people were killed during the September crackdown, far higher than the 15 dead reported by the junta.
Posted by: Steve White ||
02/01/2008 00:05 ||
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Many Muslim immigrant women do not even know that they are victims of a crime. That's because in their home country it may be legal or acceptable for men to physically punish or even kill their wives and daughters for dishonoring the family.
#1
Abusive Muslims living here need to be fully prosecuted and it made very clear it is NOT acceptable in a nation founded on equality and justice for all. We may not be able to do anything in their respective sovereign countries about abuse but we damn sure do not have to accept this in the name of cultural intolerance. Reaching Islamic women here may be the key to transforming the Middle East...hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.