Article

2008-02-01 Afghanistan

US Defense Secretary seeks more German troops for Afghanistan

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Posted by gorb 2008-02-01 05:59|| || Front Page|| [1 views ] Top

#1
"MLF, we'll scare Breznev."

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-02-01 08:27|| 2008-02-01 08:27|| Front Page Top

#2 Knocked back

Posted by tipper 2008-02-01 08:51|| 2008-02-01 08:51|| Front Page Top

#3 Germany and Germans are useless they never pull their weight, piss and moan about how wrong and imperfect the US and it's citizens are. I really think we need to realign with people who are less critical and pull their own weight.

NATO is dead stick a fork in it.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2008-02-01 10:51|| 2008-02-01 10:51|| Front Page Top

#4 Hey guys,

the committment of our country to NATO is still somewhat influenced by what happened 70-something years ago. Not everyone wants to see German fighting troops, although I agree that it is time to move on. It isn't a question of pulling out weight, but bear in mind this would be the first fighting deployment of German troops after WWII... not an easy step. Bear with us.

Posted by GerMan ;-) 2008-02-01 13:10|| 2008-02-01 13:10|| Front Page Top

#5 Isn't there still about 40,000 American troops in Germany (60,000 total in W. Europe) that could be used elsewhere? Bring them home now and put a 10% tariff (for starters) on German automobiles, just as they do for ours.

How long will the Political Class have the US playing Uncle Sucker?

Posted by ed 2008-02-01 13:28|| 2008-02-01 13:28|| Front Page Top

#6 The only current purposes our forces in Germany serve is assisting in getting things to and from Afghanistan and Iraq. I think we should look for a cheaper and better place. Let Germany worry about the Bear on it's own.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2008-02-01 13:48|| 2008-02-01 13:48|| Front Page Top

#7 Sock Puppet of Doom, if you had any military knowledge you would know that the US benefits greatly from German involvement in their force's operations and development. We also share much of the same technologies - for example, the US Abrahams tank and German Leopards are using a lot of joined components manufactured by German engineers, but the list is endless. It goes bothways. Sounds to me that you just dont like the Germans too much... but thats fine. We can live with it ;-)

Posted by GerMan ;-) 2008-02-01 14:22|| 2008-02-01 14:22|| Front Page Top

#8 Yes with a last name of Hess I don't like Germans too much, better think again.

I don't like people who will not step up to the task because it might put a small dent in their social welfare schemes or force them to tell the US hating German left to sit down and shut and let the adults deal with a serious problem.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2008-02-01 14:28|| 2008-02-01 14:28|| Front Page Top

#9 I like Americans -- but I don't like what you gotta say for yourself, bro! We are not stepping up to the task of fighting Bush's war, so what? Did we elect him, or did you?

Posted by GerMan ;-) 2008-02-01 14:33|| 2008-02-01 14:33|| Front Page Top

#10 Now, now, folks. You really don't want Germans worrying about the Bear. Bad things tend to happen when they do.

As for Afghanistan, I'd be a little more enthusiastic if we had any serious enemies there but it seems they all fled to Pakistan.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2008-02-01 14:35|| 2008-02-01 14:35|| Front Page Top

#11 The problem GerMan is you think it's Bush's war. It's the West's war on radical islam.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2008-02-01 15:11|| 2008-02-01 15:11|| Front Page Top

#12 GerMan: We are not stepping up to the task of fighting Bush's war, so what?

I'd like to know your take on why this isn't your war. Do you think this is representative of much of the German point of view?

Posted by gorb 2008-02-01 15:50|| 2008-02-01 15:50|| Front Page Top

#13 It is representative of most of Europe. After all, even Tony Blair had to throw in the towel because of the lack of public support for a war that wasn't his idea, but that of the Bush administration. We happen to have a different take on World events formed by 50 million plus casualties in WWII... to avoid war, at all cost. Not to go in at any given opportunity.

Posted by GerMan ;-) 2008-02-01 16:07|| 2008-02-01 16:07|| Front Page Top

#14 I find Germans funny.

I'm not sure if they're just truly pacifistic now, or this war just isn't on a large enough scale for them.

Posted by Mizzou Mafia 2008-02-01 16:08|| 2008-02-01 16:08|| Front Page Top

#15 We are not stepping up to the task of fighting Bush's war, so what?

Maybe if we substitute 'French' for "Talibani'...

Posted by Pappy 2008-02-01 16:12|| 2008-02-01 16:12|| Front Page Top

#16 If the Taliban were to fly planes into buildings in Berlin then we'd be very upset, too... I understand where you're coming from! But it was in fact Saudi Arabians, which just hosted banquets for Bush 2 weeks ago...

Posted by GerMan ;-) 2008-02-01 16:22|| 2008-02-01 16:22|| Front Page Top

#17 LOL! Bingo, Pappy!

Posted by Clem Sheck9754 2008-02-01 16:24|| 2008-02-01 16:24|| Front Page Top

#18 But it was in fact Saudi Arabians, which just hosted banquets for Bush 2 weeks ago...

A lot of the planning and some of the operations were carried out by Muslims who lived and studied in Germany.

The danger is a lot closer than you would appear to recognize. And of course, that deep unwillingness to recognize how much of the Islamist danger is both abetted and hosted in Europe is conveniently projected onto the Americans and especially George Bush.

Posted by lotp 2008-02-01 16:56|| 2008-02-01 16:56|| Front Page Top

#19 Let's call it a good 50 year run and go our separate ways.

Posted by ed 2008-02-01 16:57|| 2008-02-01 16:57|| Front Page Top

#20 That is to say (since I clicked too soon) that the Europeans just don't want to have to recognize a current world situation that calls for tough tradeoffs and clear moral vision. If you can only persuade yourselves that it's all America's fault, maybe things will hold together long enough for you to have a few more years of luxury and then retire on social benefits.

It's a plan. Not a very good one, and one that is already failing. But a plan nonetheless.

HOWEVER, I do not want to hear a single lecture from Germans or other Europeans about America's failings or European 'soft power'. You screwed up badly in the Balkins a decade+ ago. You are demonstrating political and moral cowardice at home and in Afghanistan today.

Your cover is blown. We see what you have become.

We are not impressed.

Posted by lotp 2008-02-01 17:00|| 2008-02-01 17:00|| Front Page Top

#21 LOTP, come on... what's up with a moral compass pointing towards Dafur, Sudan, Zimbabwe, you name it, instead? It wasn't morals that drove you into Afghanistan or Iraq, but vengance. Islamic extremism has been around much longer than 9/11 -- we differ on strategies, not on the fact of its existence. Creating many 1000 Bin Ladens by waging unjust wars is a very short-sighted solution...

Posted by GerMan ;-) 2008-02-01 17:12|| 2008-02-01 17:12|| Front Page Top

#22 Okay, GerMan. Let's hear your "strategies" for dealing with it?
What, you didn't think you were gonna get called on it?

Posted by tu3031 2008-02-01 17:17|| 2008-02-01 17:17|| Front Page Top

#23 It won't matter in 15 years the tipping point will be reached and Europe will be run by islam. We don't need NATO it needs us. Screw the Germans and Germany.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2008-02-01 17:20|| 2008-02-01 17:20|| Front Page Top

#24 My strategy would be to improve the political targetting, and not to resort to political carpet bombing, alienating 1 billion followers of Islam...

Posted by GerMan ;-) 2008-02-01 17:25|| 2008-02-01 17:25|| Front Page Top

#25 I take issue with your stupid (IMHO) "unjust war" characterization

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-02-01 18:05|| 2008-02-01 18:05|| Front Page Top

#26 or should war only be justifiable on land (you know the term), resources, or available slave labor? I would think that "rehabilitating" poorly run nations that faciltated attacks on us would rank high, but then, I have morals. Those morals acknowledge that when you attack a governement, innocents will be killed along with the bad majority.

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-02-01 18:08|| 2008-02-01 18:08|| Front Page Top

#27 I'd like to see ALL of NATO pulling a greater portion of the weight, both in Europe and in the war against Islamist extremism. NATO Europe has a population approximately 95% of the US, and a military that couldn't whip Australia, if the two came to blows. Europe needs to expand their defense spending to equal the proposed US target of 4% of GDP, and use it to equip fighting units. Hell, you're going to need it for self-defense, if nothing else, against the Islamists among you that are NOT assimilating, and beginning to treat your local citizens worse than any of you would treat a dog.

BTW, I spent a total of 11 years in the Air Force IN EUROPE (26 total), and I've seen NATO forces first-hand. Some are first-rate. Some are more worthless than a half-trained boy scout troop. NATO is going to need all the combat experieced troops it can get, and very soon. Afghanistan and Iraq are two places to get that experience. You should be VOLUNTEERING half your army to join US, British, Canadian, Danish, and Australian troops in getting that experience NOW, before you have to learn it in your own back yard.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2008-02-01 18:28|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2008-02-01 18:28|| Front Page Top

#28 game. set. match.
anyone who thinks this is bush's war is a reactionary, as the invasion of iraq followed that order of events.

Much like a 14 year old wanting to explore the world, Germany wanted a sports car, got it (via US) and will give anyone a ride anywhere so long as they don't trash the thing.

Been to Germany, love it. The real dissertation of terror versus expression is: expression does not kill people (until it reaches rhetoric and inspires). I know there is a fabulous rail system in Germany which is under constant threat by a$h*les but that is what I call BULLSHIT! All civic endevors are under threat by a few jackasses. That, My friends, is my point.

Posted by swksvolFF 2008-02-01 18:59|| 2008-02-01 18:59|| Front Page Top

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