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Iranian role in Hakim assassination?
Today's Headlines
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Page 1: WoT Operations
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Mississippi: Looks like the Publicans have it...
Mississippi -- 1,528 of 2,319 precincts reporting (66%)
Barbour [B] 289,788 52%
Musgrove * [M] 256,872 46%
Cripps [I] 4,015 1%
Dillion [I] 2,162 0%
O'Hara [I] 2,574 0%
I suppose it could still turn around, but with 2/3 of the precincts in it looks pretty good. Fox is still describing it as too close to call, but I don't think they're on the local stations...

Barbour will be Mississippi's next governor
Republican Haley Barbour has done it. The former Republican National Committee chairman has been declared the winner in the race for governor, beating Democratic incumbent Ronnie Musgrove. With 84 percent of the vote reported, Barbour had 53 percent to Musgrove's 45 percent in unofficial returns.

Some have said governor's races in Mississippi and Kentucky could give an indication of President Bush's popularity headed into the 2004 federal elections.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:01 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [3211 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The Klan Southern Republicans winning? Now that's a BIG surprise! Now when will the Country Club Republicans in the NE, midwest and mid-Atlantic states wake up and realize their party has been hijacked by the loony right wing?
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 0:26 Comments || Top||

#2  To: NotQuiteBright

I gather you're too young to realise that most of the Klansmen were Democrats.
Posted by: Tonto || 11/05/2003 1:05 Comments || Top||

#3  Old enough to know that their ideologues are now Republicans in the South
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 1:11 Comments || Top||

#4  Now when will the Country Club Republicans in the NE, midwest and mid-Atlantic states wake up and realize their party has been hijacked by the loony right wing?

Now, now, don't be a sore loser! :-)

The far-right wing of the Repubs actually got put into a box during the late 1990s -- right about the time Repubs realized that if they were going to win any more elections they should stop giving Pat Buchanan and Pat Robertson floor time at the conventions. What you call "right wing" is actually surprising heterogenous in its views. Failing to see that would be the same mistake as calling all liberals "left wing". We both know that there is substantial diversity in leftist thought, and ditto is true for the right.

Democrats will keep losing until 1) they get their own nutters into a box (dare I call it a "lockbox"? Just a little 2000 humor) and 2) they fiunderstand the diversity of the right, and thus begin to peel voters away in the center-right.
Posted by: Steve White || 11/05/2003 1:11 Comments || Top||

#5  I gather you're too young to realise that most of the Klansmen were Democrats.

Unfortunately, some of them migrated to the Republican party, and we've yet to drum them out completely.

However, some of the most vicious haters in the old Democratic party weren't found in the South, but in Chicago, Philly, etc. And those folks remained Democrats. And they still vote. Just ask Da Mayor.
Posted by: Steve White || 11/05/2003 1:14 Comments || Top||

#6  Steve, Steve, Steve, the GOP is ruled from Texas, the moderate Republicans have been marginalized and bullied into toe-ing the party line--I'm glad the Southern Democrats have been thrown out I have no patience for Republocrats! The joke is Olympia Snowe and her ilk pretending they agree with the GOP agenda! One day people in Maine and other more moderate states will wake up and realize that the GOP is a bunch of evangelical loonies run by Rove and DeLay
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 1:21 Comments || Top||

#7  To: Steve White

You nailed it with both posts - 'specially the gem about Repub diversity. The NutMikes of the Left will not fathom this until it's waaay late. Too bad, actually.
Posted by: Tonto || 11/05/2003 1:24 Comments || Top||

#8  See you in Louisiana a week from Saturday, Nutmeg. To avoid a major case of cognitive dissonance, you might want to jettison your stereotypes at the state line.
Posted by: Tonto || 11/05/2003 2:04 Comments || Top||

#9  Note to Dems:
You're in a hole. Dig faster.
Posted by: Dishman || 11/05/2003 3:03 Comments || Top||

#10  Memo to NMM: You're either being sarcastic to a level high enough to crash the Pentagon's main-frame, or you're really ARE Micheal Moore.

I could care less either way since the Daily Show makes more sense than you.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 3:25 Comments || Top||

#11  Why stop at the Klan? Listening to the Al Sharptons and the Jesse Jacksons of the Dimocrats will tell you they still have a problem with openb racists.

By the way, NMM, what bunged up, lashed together sort of moral code allows you to apply the guilt of one man and blindly and unthinkingly apply it to another, sight unseen? Whatever it is, most Americans don't seem to agree its a fair one...
Posted by: Ptah || 11/05/2003 5:14 Comments || Top||

#12  NMM,do you really,honestly think a lying Democrat(remember Tuwana Brawly)like Sharpton(Democrat)would make agood Pries.If so I have a"bill of goods"I think you might be interested in.
Posted by: Raptor || 11/05/2003 6:28 Comments || Top||

#13  Well he is some news that we can all be happy with! Even Nutmike. Democrat Whipple trounced GOP Kamal Nawash. Remember him? He's candidate from 31st in Arlington, who got financing from Alamo(aundi?), the terrorist financier from Florida. Namal had other connections to terrorist organizations too. Surprisingly, GOP Senator Warner, member of the Armed Services Committee, came out in support of Nawash. Gives me pause on Warner.

Hmmm, on second thought, I'm guessing the loss of a terrorist supporter, even to a Dumbdownocrat, is probably a disappointment to Nihilistic Nutmike.
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 7:47 Comments || Top||

#14  B,

Publicans is probably not a good name for the GOP because 'publicans' in the english version of the Christian bible are basically tax collectors.

Maybe GOPs would be better as a title.
Posted by: mhw || 11/05/2003 8:13 Comments || Top||

#15  CA + KY + MS = 2004
Posted by: ---------<<<<-- || 11/05/2003 8:13 Comments || Top||

#16  mwh.. re: Publicans, I think the GOP should graciously relinquish that title to the side that most wants and deserves it. Then the Dumb-Downers would have both a symbol and a title of which they could be proud.
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 8:28 Comments || Top||

#17  Given that Barbour actively pursued the support of the CCC (essentially the Klan in suits, you can check out the history) during this campaign, he deserves to take some heat for it.
Posted by: VAMark || 11/05/2003 8:52 Comments || Top||

#18  Mark - I'm sorry CCC = ??? (I'm assuming you don't mean the Civilian Conservation Corps...)
Posted by: eLarson || 11/05/2003 9:39 Comments || Top||

#19  Raptor Did I say I supported Sharpton? I happened to have lived in NYC when the Tawanna Brawley farce was going on--I think Sharpton, Maddox AND Mason should have gone to jail for their actions.
Steve W You're right--the GOP put the loonies in a lockbox--but they are still pulling the strings--just look at the judicial appointments, this "partial birth" (which is NOT a medical term)
abortion ban, etc.
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 11/05/2003 10:20 Comments || Top||

#20  The Dummycheats will continue to lose and be marginalized until they understand two things: most Americans want limited government, and we want only the taxes necessary to do the government's legitimate business. The majority of what passes as "legitimate business" these days is pork added to the budget to buy off some special constituency in the plunderer's home district. It might also help if the dummycheats had a decent idea once in awhile, instead of pushing the same old garbage: greed and envy('tax the rich'), divisiveness ('multiculturalism'), and social programs that only make a larger percentage of the population dependent upon the government (From "New Deal" to "Great Society" to "slavery reparations" to whatever else pops up in their flights of fantasy). Somebody has to pay for all of this, and it's the guys that actually have to WORK for a living. At one time, the dummycheats cared about the working people: now they only care about the dependent class. The rest of us are tired of carrying the load.

NMM's idiotarian comment about "judicial appointments" is the mark of a true dummycheat. Bush has nominated a number of people the American Bar Association has vetted as "eminently well qualified". The Dummycheat Party has stonewalled their appointments because those nominees won't continue their destruction of the Constitution through 'judicial activism'- a piece of stupidity where judges usurp the role of the Congress by making laws from the bench. The dummycheats have put party above the Constitution. They all deserve to be taken out and shot. That USED to be called Treason - taking an oath to "support and defend the Constitution, and bear true faith and allegiance to the same".

Someone on LGF made a comment about needing an "anti-idiotarian" party. I'll be one of the first to join. It's also looking more and more like we'll need a Second American Revolution to get rid of the dead weight currently bogging this nation down. Let's hope we can accomplish it at the ballot box, rather than having to take up arms to make it happen. If, however, that's the only choice, I'll do my part.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 10:53 Comments || Top||

#21  WOW! Nutmike, you surprise me. You actually can distinguish that Al Sharpton (though a Democrat) is not, simply by invoking the holy name of the Democratic party, as pure as the rest of the saved among you; though it is amusing that the confession caused you such dismay that you found yourself compelled to immediately recite ten hail talking points and 5 hate Marys.

I envy your simple world of black and white. Democrats…always good. Republicans…always bad. Abortion …always good, Suck that baby out at 39 weeks and throw it in the trash. Why, it’s exactly the same as an abortion of less than 12 weeks..right?? It’s all very simple.
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 10:59 Comments || Top||

#22  OP Stonewalling appointments? Payback IS a bitch isn't it?! Bwahahahaha
B Sounds like my world is the opposite of yours--Democrats always bad--GOP always good--so what's your point? Oh and it's a fetus, not a baby in my opinion--if you're against abortion--don't have one then!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 11/05/2003 11:06 Comments || Top||

#23  Old enough to know that their ideologues are now Republicans in the South

Nice little bit of msidirection there. Too bad few people are buying it.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 11:20 Comments || Top||

#24  I thought the publican was the guy tending bar at the pub?
Posted by: mojo || 11/05/2003 11:32 Comments || Top||

#25  Steve W You're right--the GOP put the loonies in a lockbox--but they are still pulling the strings--just look at the judicial appointments, this "partial birth" (which is NOT a medical term) abortion ban, etc.

NMM, you really don't want to get me started on the "partial birth" issue. As a physician, I can tell you that you're right, it isn't a medical term.

The proper medical term is "infanticide."
Posted by: Steve White || 11/05/2003 11:33 Comments || Top||

#26  No..NMM, my world is not the opposite of yours, gaagg..what an insult! Though I'm not surprised you'd make such a blanket assumption, seeing how in your little black and white world, all non-Democrats think exactly alike.

No, Mike, not everyone is a rabid, cheering spectator like you. You just sit in the stands and cheer for one side..always assuming that any and every call by the ump against your team is BAD!! and any and every call by the ump for your team is good. You just sit in the stands and mindlessly cheer for your team. Go Democrats.

Believe it or not, there are some of us who would prefer to pull from the best players on all sides, to make up an all-star team. The best of the best...regardless of which team they come from. A concept I'm sure that is foreign to you sitting there all wrapped up in your "team spirit" busy waving your little "we're number one" flag.
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 11:41 Comments || Top||

#27  HOLY BANDWIDTH, BATMAN! NMM's catalytic comments skew the comments:article ratio all to hell just about as much as Murat's inputs (and outputs).
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/05/2003 11:45 Comments || Top||

#28  aggh..I apologise for snapping at the troll bait. I just couldn't help myself.
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 12:09 Comments || Top||

#29  Hey, let's all kill a fetus then deny it.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/05/2003 12:11 Comments || Top||

#30  "Fetus" is greek for unborn child.

So you're killing a child. Discrimination based on age and temporary physical handicap. Two with one stone.
Posted by: Ptah || 11/05/2003 14:43 Comments || Top||

-Short Attention Span Theater-
Saudis ’fear sand shortage’
Saudi Arabia has reportedly imposed strict border checks to enforce a ban on the export of sand. There are fears that the growing demands of the construction industry could lead to a shortage in the desert kingdom.

The Arab News newspaper reports that neighbouring Bahrain needs to import large quantities of sand for reclaiming land from the sea. Demand is also expected to grow as the process of reconstruction in Iraq gathers pace. Although sand remains plentiful in Saudi Arabia, construction experts say the high costs of bagging and transporting make exploiting it difficult.

Experts have told the newspaper that if a mechanism could be devised to move sand from the vast desert region known as the Empty Quarter, it could be a very profitable proposition. As the paper points out, there is more sand in the kingdom than oil.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 4:12:18 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [249 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I see the Organization of Sand Exporting Countries (OSEC) forming soon. They'll try to bring us to our knees!
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 16:14 Comments || Top||

#2  Is this real, or ScrappleFace?
Posted by: Mike || 11/05/2003 16:16 Comments || Top||

#3  No; it's the BBS.
Posted by: Atrus || 11/05/2003 16:19 Comments || Top||

#4  Close enough...
Posted by: Raj || 11/05/2003 16:30 Comments || Top||

#5  "a mechanism could be devised to move sand"
Well, there's this infidel device called a truck.
Posted by: Steve || 11/05/2003 16:31 Comments || Top||

#6  It is obvious that most all of the smart foreigners left, or I am sure that imaginative ways of moving big-time tons of sand could be devised. Now all the locals can do is pound it.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/05/2003 16:32 Comments || Top||

#7  According to P.J. O'Rourke the sand in Saudi Arabia is unsuitable for making sandbags because its too fine. Amazing that it would be useful of anything else.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 16:47 Comments || Top||

#8  I thought this stuff was holy land. WTF are they doing exporting it? I'd like to buy a pound of this stuff for my cat's litter box.
Posted by: BH || 11/05/2003 18:05 Comments || Top||

#9  "Well, there's this infidel device called a truck."
That would make perfect sense - to an infidel!

There is a certain way of thinking that you must master if you are to succeed in the Magic Kingdom, home of the Two Holy Moskkks, King Fahd, janitor, er, custodian.

I predict that this will be close to what they decide to do:

1) hire a coupla thousand Pakistanis
2) dress them in special garb
3) have 'em trek out into the wasteland (across the street)
4) then carefully walk to the collection point
5) and turn out their Saturday Night Fever 2" leisure suit cuffs


Just think of all the Saudis who could be hired to Supervise! Now that's a Saoodi Solution™ friends. Thank you, thank you - I will be here all week. ;-)
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 18:12 Comments || Top||

#10  Geez, there was this old joke that when North Africa will become socialist there will be a shortage of sand in Sahara.
Posted by: marek || 11/05/2003 18:34 Comments || Top||

#11  LOL Marek. But the sand will be cheap... if you can find it.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 19:31 Comments || Top||

#12  .com,

Maybe Nigeria can break into the sand market. I would feel better about them using 4 year old child laborers to humpo sand as opposed to having them pulverize granite. My kids liked the sand box when they were four.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 20:27 Comments || Top||

#13  It's a damn shame.......what will the annual Saud family picnic be without the traditional mud pie throwing contest?
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 21:58 Comments || Top||

#14  SH - I worked as a greenskeeper for a couple of years in HS - ain't nothing harder than digging all the sand out of a sandtrap (when it becomes compacted cuz of mixing with clay) and replacing it with fresh stuff. Working the freight docks was easier. Not recommended - except mebbe as "therapy" for guys like Taleban Lindh...
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 22:02 Comments || Top||

72 Virgins Dating Service
Via MerdeinFrance:

"if you’re an individual who is hellbent on martyrdom by attacking America or her deployed servicemen and women, we’d like to see you hooked up with 72 Virgins as soon as possible."

I’d suggest the merchandise at the attached link be voted the Rantburger uniform

Posted by: mercutio || 11/05/2003 2:48:11 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [347 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Indeed! I ordered one of the 72 Virgins Dating Service T-shirts 5 or 6 weeks ago - the graphic is HUGE and the shirt quality is absolutely excellent. The site knows what it's doing - received order ontime w/o problem. Even comes with a Rangers bumper sticker, gratis. I should've mailed the sticker to BullDog (might raise an eyebrow or two!) - but alas, I've already given it away - I haven't owned a car in about 4 yrs, now. Sigh.

Recommended! Rangers kick ass!
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 15:33 Comments || Top||

#2  God Bless the US Army and the Army rangers.
Posted by: badanov || 11/05/2003 17:44 Comments || Top||

#3  The Rantburg Uniform would read: 72 Year-Old Virgin Dating Service
Posted by: Tokyo Taro || 11/05/2003 17:49 Comments || Top||

#4  Oooooo, flirting with the executioner, are we?

Ban 'im, Fred! ;->
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 18:14 Comments || Top||

#5  I should've mailed the sticker to BullDog (might raise an eyebrow or two!)

Probably a good thing you didn't, .com - I would've felt obliged to buy a car to put on it. ;)

It's the thought that counts!
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 18:46 Comments || Top||

#6  Bulldog,
You could always wear it on your backside... (let's see if this gets a chuckle or two from our "stiff upper lip" Brit!)
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 19:08 Comments || Top||

#7  My ...ummm... whadyacallit - fender?!! Well, there's plenty of space I suppose...
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/06/2003 4:01 Comments || Top||

California Town Votes to Love Nature
What, no "Impeach Bush" measure on the ballot? They disappoint me.
BOLINAS, Calif. - Residents of this quirky coastal town north of San Francisco decided overwhelmingly to declare their love of nature, skunks and a few other things perhaps not as easily understood.
I’d keep an eye on the power lines up there.
Sponsored by a local woman known for wearing hats made of tree bark and newspaper, Measure G won 314 to 152 in the town of 1,200, where residents are so protective of their isolated way of life that they regularly remove highway signs pointing into town.
She sounds like she’d be a "thought leader" in any community. Lady, do you know how many North Korean kids would kill to have one of your hats on their dinner table?
The text of the measure, in its entirety: "Vote for Bolinas to be a socially acknowledged nature-loving town because to like to drink the water out of the lakes to like to eat the blueberries to like the bears is not hatred to hotels and motor boats. Dakar. Temporary and way to save life, skunks and foxes (airplanes to go over the ocean) and to make it beautiful."
Wonder what’s in that water?
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 12:58:47 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [354 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Juche and a dakar-based policy...
Posted by: Seafarious || 11/05/2003 13:02 Comments || Top||

#2  Sounds good if you can see past the fact that maybe the woman might be a little loony. But all and all, I'd love to live in a small secluded town. (tree bark) Hats off to the folks!
Posted by: R.A. Myers || 11/05/2003 13:13 Comments || Top||

#3  Tree bark? Is that as effective as tin foil?
Posted by: BH || 11/05/2003 13:21 Comments || Top||

#4  I wonder if she is distantly related to the English fellow that nudged the peanut up ot No. 10 Downing. I think he also wore a turkey on his head to bring attention to obesity. It might have been easier if he just took his shirt off instead; if he looks like me other s would have gotten the idea.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 13:26 Comments || Top||

#5  What angers me is that there are 152 nature-haters in this town that must be destroyed! May their yards be filled with skunk oil and fox scat!
Posted by: Dar || 11/05/2003 13:55 Comments || Top||

#6  If they are drinking the water out if the lakes, then they all have giardia lamblia, or beaver fever, as we call it up here, from drinking water out of beaver ponds.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/05/2003 14:04 Comments || Top||

#7  Prob'ly accounts for the syntax. Dakar, bro!
Posted by: Fred || 11/05/2003 14:14 Comments || Top||

#8  I thought I'd heard of this town before. I believe this is the place that tried to prevent electromagnetic waves from being broadcast into their town. Anyway here's some backround:

BOLINAS, Calif. — The turning point for this quirky little Marin County beach town can be traced to a 1971 recall vote in which elected officials were removed from the local utility district and replaced with a quasi-revolutionary board. The result was a radical no-growth policy that froze the Bolinas population in its tracks at about 1,300 and steadily raised the market value of a water permit here to a staggering $265,000 — the amount paid at a recent auction.
After decades in which local activists systematically removed direction signs to Bolinas on nearby California 1, Caltrans finally just gave up putting them there. To get to Bolinas, a collection of clapboard houses and shops nestled on a peninsula about 30 miles north of San Francisco, you have to know where you are going when you set out.
Another issue of modest local concern is something called Measure G, a stream-of-consciousness initiative that was placed on the ballot by Bolinas resident Jane Bethen. Bethen is a local character who wears burlap undergarments and crowns made from bark, newspapers and palm fronds. Beloved by the townspeople, she is sometimes difficult to decipher.
"Vote for Bolinas to be a socially acknowledged nature-loving town," says her free-verse ballot petition, "because to like to drink the water out of the lakes, to like to eat the blueberries, to like the bears is not hatred to hotels and motor boats."
Bethen, who sometimes uses the pseudonym Dakar, gathered 263 signatures from the town's 1,000 registered voters for the measure, which concludes, "Temporary and way to save life, skunks and foxes (airplanes to go over the ocean) and to make it beautiful."
The Measure G initiative, set for the Nov. 4 ballot, targets the Bolinas Community Public Utility District. But not even utility manager Philip Buchanan, a former rock-station disc jockey, knows exactly how. "It seems to be saying, 'Let's all get along,' " said Buchanan, who has been with the utility district for 23 years and presents a leery, long-suffering persona to visiting reporters. "The crux seems to be about airplanes." For her part, Bethen concedes that some of the language has to do with her childhood in Minnesota, which at least explains the blueberries, which are not native to coastal California.
After its success in the 1971 recall election, the five-member Bolinas utility district quickly established itself as the town's most powerful local institution and principal public forum. Because the community is unincorporated, there is no mayor or city council. So the utility district has taken on many of those functions, including acting as a target for letting off steam or making political points.

Buchanan has seen the utility district board adopt an El Salvadoran sister city and declare a nuclear-free zone.

"As far as I know," said Buchanan, his tongue firmly in cheek, "we have had no transportation of nuclear and fissionable nuclear materials since, or before, for that matter. Personally, I think we should mind to our own knitting."
The keys to the utility district's power are water and sewage. In a desperate attempt to block a major highway and harbor development plan for the area, a handful of local residents discovered that they could effectively control growth by limiting water and sewer permits. After winning control of the board in 1971, the new utility board members, including two residents from a nearby communal farm, issued a moratorium on new permits that stands today. One of the young activists was Orville Schell, the Bay Area writer and China scholar.
Schell, currently dean of the UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism, wrote "The Town that Fought to Save Itself," a book that chronicles the Bolinas anti-growth movement.
"Bolinas has a reputation for being a little daft," said Schell, who still owns a ranch home in the community. "But actually what it has done by way of growth control and community management kept the character of the town from being blasted to smithereens." Key to the effort, said Schell, was the initial recall election that was used to seize control of the utility board. However, although it successfully restricted population growth, the Bolinas movement also had the unintended consequence of helping to drive housing and land prices far beyond the means of the modest farming and countercultural population that lived here at the time of the utility district coup d'etat. In 1975, the year Schell's book was published, the median household income of the town was about $8,000. Large homes were available for less than $20,000. According to the 2000 census, the median household income here has risen to $53,187, and the average home value is about $465,000, with some of the older Victorian homes selling for as much as $2 million.

OK, this sounds like the last place I'd want to live.
Posted by: Steve || 11/05/2003 15:29 Comments || Top||

#9  Great. A beautiful people utopia! Why am I not surprised...
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 16:07 Comments || Top||

#10  Tree bark? Is that as effective as tin foil?

An honest question deserving of an honest answer. The answer is no if you are discussing mind control rays. However, tree bark has proven to be an effective Agent Orange brain-o-frice. Note Agent Orange... not Agent Grape... Anabuse is the only answer to that.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 16:22 Comments || Top||

#11  Think anybody owns a gun in this town? They probably don't trust banks so they have all their money in jars, and you just know they have weed stashed all over the house so they can feel even more like one with the universe. No wonder they took all the signs down--one criminal could knock over the whole town!
Posted by: Dar || 11/05/2003 16:28 Comments || Top||

#12  Uh, guys, none of you live in the Bay Area I take it?

Fellahs, you are selling poor Bolinas short: it isn't Berkeley. Actually, it may be one of California's most charming little maverick hippy towns. I've spent many an enjoyable evening there drinking at the local bar (called Smiley's) before talking a hike along its picturesque beaches which are framed by towering, epic cliffs. Actually, it's not even really a town as it lacks a council or a mayor.... except for the drunk guy who sleeps in front of its single gas station. The locals call him "the mayor." Bolinas is kind of like Andy Griffeth's Mayberry on acid.

Traditionally Bolinas (which is on the tip of a peninsula), with its single road leading in or out, was a haven for San Francisco artist/anarchist weirdos fleeing the competitiveness of the big city. Most of its older (and, to my thinking, cooler) houses were walled with driftwood or untreated, weathered pine, giving the entire place a sort of "hobbiton" feeling.. The locals were eccentric hippies, sure, but not what you would consider textbook liberals.... more like libertarians, I guess. There was even an unofficial shooting and "plinking" range in the woods north of town.

The reason that the locals were (and are) so isolationist is that they don't want to be "discovered" by Bay Area yuppies. They were all horrified when, a half a year or so ago, Hillary Clinton & Company cruised through there little slice of heaven in search of a "quaint little Northern California town" to buy a house in. Martha Stewart has already purchased a home there... so I guess the end it near for these people. Soon they will have a real mayor, a town council, zoning, and so forth. All of these freaky, inoffensive, anarchist types with their nutty, homemade, off-grid homes will leave.

Hell, my buddy that lives there has already bought a place 1 ½ hours north in Willits. Maybe the Bay Area Megalopolis (tm) won't get that far....

Dar, there are a fair number of guns in that little town.
Posted by: Secret Master || 11/05/2003 19:14 Comments || Top||

#13  obviously, from their syntax, grammar, and punctuation they were products of Bay Area ("Self Esteem are our Business") public schools as well....and proof positive that Nixon was wrong to spray pot with Paraquat
Posted by: Frank G || 11/05/2003 19:24 Comments || Top||

#14  I'm just glad the measure passed.
Posted by: Rawsnacks || 11/05/2003 20:29 Comments || Top||

#15  You guys are kidding me!? A town that has told HRC to beat the feet, JRR Tolkien atmosphere, Martha's house for the obligatory egging op, a nice local slop shoot, a gun range, and the integrity to not want to be the next f*ckin' 'sundance'. Sounds pretty damn good to me.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 21:55 Comments || Top||

#16  Dakar is Cannibal saliva, is it not? That would put everything in context.
Posted by: Grunter || 11/05/2003 23:46 Comments || Top||

Charlotte County Teen Killed in 'car-Surfing' Accident
NORTH PORT, Fla. (AP) - Police said a Charlotte High School freshman died from injuries sustained in a "car surfing" stunt. Chris Trowbridge, 15, apparently was lying on the roof of a vehicle as it sped through a sparsely populated area of North Port on Friday. A 17-year-old senior was driving and three girls were passengers. Yurchuck said the boy asked a 14-year-old girl to take the wheel, then climbed onto the roof with Trowbridge. During the exchange, the vehicle accelerated, went out of control and rolled, the chief said. The boys were thrown off the roof. The 17-year-old and the three girls suffered minor injuries. Car surfers hang on to or stand on top of moving vehicles, as though they are surfing. The stunt has been cited in deaths around the world.
It's kind of like Drano for the gene pool...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 12:27 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [355 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Darwin strikes again.
But probably not a Darwin award winner.. the driver and passengers survived...
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/05/2003 12:32 Comments || Top||

#2  Darwin Awards are thick this year.
Posted by: Atrus || 11/05/2003 12:32 Comments || Top||

#3  Worlds most favorite last words:

"Hey, watch me do this............"
Posted by: Steve || 11/05/2003 13:10 Comments || Top||

#4  People grossly abuse the word "accident". If you place yourself on the hood of a moving vehicle -- driven by a 14-year-old, no less -- the "accident" would be if you survived.
Posted by: BH || 11/05/2003 13:26 Comments || Top||

#5  This would make more sense (but not much more) in Indiana where there isn't real surf available.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 13:31 Comments || Top||

#6  Poor kid. Makes you wish they were actual thinking when trying this stunt.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 13:51 Comments || Top||

#7  That may be even more darwin than our latest entree from down here in Arkansas.

Fort Smith (AP) -- A Fort Smith teen-ager throwing a pumpkin at a mailbox was crushed Saturday night after he fell from the bed of a moving pickup, Arkansas State Police said.

xxxxxx xxxxxx, 18, of Fort Smith died in the 11 p.m. accident on Queensbury Way, state police said. The accident report said his head was crushed.

Posted by: R.A. Myers || 11/05/2003 14:34 Comments || Top||

#8  How is the pumpkin?
Posted by: Dar || 11/05/2003 15:14 Comments || Top||

#9  It was re-attached for the funeral services
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 11/05/2003 16:22 Comments || Top||

#10  Off message Mike... I'm reporting ya.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 16:24 Comments || Top||

#11  Kinda "mean spirited" there, aren't you, Mike?
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 16:47 Comments || Top||

#12  I must be hanging around the conservative Neanderthals on Rantburg too much *sigh*
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 22:55 Comments || Top||

#13  Feel free to leave anytime, Mike.
Posted by: Uncle Joe || 11/05/2003 23:52 Comments || Top||

Babs: "Sad Day for Artistic Freedom"
Hat tip: Drudge. Edited for brevity.
I am deeply disappointed that CBS, the network that in 1964 gave me complete artistic control in creating television specials, now caved in to right wing Republican pressure to cancel the network broadcast of the movie The Reagans. (And I say MOVIE - because this is NOT a documentary - it’s a television drama.) The movie will now be aired on Showtime, where the difference in viewership is in the millions.
"Of course, in making this fictional drama we feel perfectly within our rights to use real names and real events and skew them wildly so you’ll think the people portrayed are bigoted, corrupt, and evil."
This is censorship, pure and simple. Well, maybe not all that pure. Censorship never is. Due to their experience with the restrictive English government, the framers of our constitution specifically included a ban on prior restraint in the First Amendment, which is an attempt to stop information from getting out there before the public has a chance to see it at all - exactly what is going on in this case.
Um, no, censorship is when the government suppresses your speech. This is a marketing decision by a private company (CBS). I guess those nuances escape you, Babs.
Of course, CBS as a company has the legal right to make decisions about what they do and do not air. However, these important decisions should be based on artistic integrity rather than an attempt to appease a small group of vocal dissidents. Indeed, today marks a sad day for artistic freedom - one of the most important elements of an open and democratic society.
I guess "artistic integrity" requires attacking the integrity of a great man. Sorry! Lose a turn.
Posted by: Dar || 11/05/2003 10:02:57 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [354 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Does this mean hubby don't get paid? She must be sick of covering him.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 10:06 Comments || Top||

#2  hehe. Go ahead, make the movie. Maybe Fox will buy my script for a movie (NOT a documentary) about Barbra Streisand. It's reassuring to know that Streisand would not attempt to censor it in any way, especially the torrid scene with the Great Dane.
Posted by: BH || 11/05/2003 10:18 Comments || Top||

#3  I eagerly await Ms. Streisand's ringing defense of the artistic freedom of Mel Gibson's The Passion.

(tap, tap, tap)

Ah . . . Ms. Streisand? The ringing defense of the artistic freedom of Mel Gibson's The Passion. I'm waiting for it. Eagerly.

Ms. Streisand?

Dang! Where'd she go?
Posted by: Mike || 11/05/2003 10:19 Comments || Top||

#4  C'mon - Brolin's work on Pensacola: Wings of Gold was just so riveting! ;)
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 10:19 Comments || Top||

#5  LOL. I'd like to see her ringing defense of the Second Amendment, too, but her ilk rarely get past the First.

When they do, they usually jump straight to the Fifth.
Posted by: Dar || 11/05/2003 10:23 Comments || Top||

#6  Babs and a Great Dane? what, you want PETA and the ASPCA after you?
Posted by: Frank G || 11/05/2003 10:26 Comments || Top||

#7  This is censorship, pure and simple.
No, you are wrong. It's called CAPITALISM. Stick to your never-ending "final performances" Babs.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 11/05/2003 10:35 Comments || Top||

Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 11/05/2003 10:56 Comments || Top||

#9  CBS says the hub-bub had nothing to do with their cancelling the show and moving it to showtime. Is babs calling CBS a bunch of liars?
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 11:11 Comments || Top||

#10  Do you think it creeps her out sleeping with Ronald Reagan. I'd love to see the look on her face if James rolled over and called her "Mommy".
Posted by: eLarson || 11/05/2003 11:26 Comments || Top||

#11  Autistic integrity?
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/05/2003 11:48 Comments || Top||

#12  It would have been cool if Peewee Herman had played mommy and Rosie had played the Gipper. Martin Short could have cameo'd all sorts of insiders and staffers. Pure comedy even I could have enjoyed.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/05/2003 12:20 Comments || Top||

#13  especially the torrid scene with the Great Dane.

Gives new meaning to the term 'doggin' it'...
Posted by: Raj || 11/05/2003 12:20 Comments || Top||

#14  It's all Cyber Sarge and the VRWC's fault.
Funny, how it matters whose ox is being gored.
LOL at all the posts.
Posted by: Gasse Katze || 11/05/2003 12:52 Comments || Top||

#15  Ms. Streisand is suing a couple of photographers for taking pictures of her house from a few miles away via helicopter on grounds it is an invasion of privacy.She does believe historical figures lives can be distorted because "its a television drama".Maybe the photographers should claim they are making a "television drama" and then Babs would give her blessing.
Posted by: Stephen || 11/05/2003 12:53 Comments || Top||

#16  Gosh, its getting so a leftie cant spew any propaganda at all these days.

"Shut up and sing" babs......
Posted by: frank martin || 11/05/2003 14:58 Comments || Top||

#17  But I thought Hollywood and CBS were dominated by Libruls according to many Rantbourgeois? Guess another conservative crybaby complaint can be flushed now!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 11/05/2003 16:26 Comments || Top||

#18  NMM--If it weren't so, that p.o.s. movie would never have been made with the current script in the first place! CBS is only bowing to market outcry--note that Showtime will still be showing it. The "Libruls" only did this because they realized even they had gone over the top this time.

The most surprising thing to me from this whole affair is that network execs have standards!
Posted by: Dar || 11/05/2003 16:32 Comments || Top||

#19  Yeah, they got standards...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 16:55 Comments || Top||

#20  I am confused here. Was it the liberals or the Conservatives that whoreshiped the almighty dollar? If the Execs caved to popular pressure rather than stick their autistic guns, doesn't that make them....Conservative? A true Liberal wouldn't care if he lost millions, just as long as he stayed true to his craft. NMM, Pull on your ears until you hear a 'POP' that will be your head coming out of your ass.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 11/05/2003 17:33 Comments || Top||

#21  Streisand writes:
"One can only imagine the kind of pressure that would compel CBS to take such an extraordinary action."

Ah yes, it seems they are feeling pressure to maintain their own credibility. The charges of "Media Bias" are actually starting to have an effect - as are diminished ratings.

Speaking of ratings. I love how she blames this on the "right wing spin machine". It's only a small cabal of people who control this, ya see. She really believes that she is somehow in tune with regular 'Merikins. I love this story.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro || 11/05/2003 19:25 Comments || Top||

#22  Hey, have you guys noticed that sometime back (oh, maybe six or so months ago) Babs learned how to use spell checker? Heck, she learned how to use proper grammar as well.... makes me think that IT ISN'T ACTUALLY BABS POSTING ANYMORE! As her old posts were way, way less coherent, I think that Babs (much like her dear friend Hillary Clinton) uses a ghost writer. Or they changed her anti-depression medication -- one or the other.
Posted by: Secret Master || 11/05/2003 19:49 Comments || Top||

#23  There already is a historically accurate biography of Babs that is occasionally re-broadcast on cable. I refer you to the script here.
Posted by: A Jackson || 11/05/2003 20:28 Comments || Top||

#24  I used to work security at an arena back home. Babs did 3 shows there. You guys would choke if you knew how much they pampered her silly ass. Next to her dressing room she wanted a 'tea room'. We even had to put a security person in there - guess she thought some deranged fan was going to assault her during tea time. Guess she was smart in putting another security person in there as I'm sure one of us on the staff would've tainted the tea if you know what I mean. No one really liked her (yeah, big surprise), she was pretty obnoxious. I do seem to remember she brought her mom on tour who actually was a classy lady and would always say hi to us 'peasants' when she walked by backstage. I was just a college schlep at the time and didn't have much knowledge of Babs' audience.....never saw that many gay guys in one place before. She comes on stage the first night and a bunch of them actually started crying & shit. LMFAO. I have another great story of her in Beaufort, S.C. getting clowned on by the locals but that's too long to post here.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 21:45 Comments || Top||

#25  Cyber Sarge-- My point was that conservatives claim the media is biased to the libs--if they TRULY were--I'd be watching this show on CBS and since I'm looking at the computer screen while typing this my head is not up my ass as you would imply, but thanks for your concern!
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 23:01 Comments || Top||

#26  Jarhead--she's a singer/actress nothing more--if you want to read about some of the wild demands people like J-Lo make on the venues they perform in go to thesmokinggun.com they have a whole list--the tearoom is mild by comparison!
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 23:04 Comments || Top||

Loving Monsters
Glenn H. Reynolds reviews David Baron’s new book; The Beast in the Garden: A Modern Parable of Man and Nature. Loved this part:
In the end, of course, people started to be eaten, and the bureaucracy woke up to a degree. There’s lots of interesting stuff in Baron’s book about ecological change, and the folly of seeking "wilderness" without recognizing humanity’s role in nature, but to me the most interesting behavior isn’t the predatory nature of the cougars — which are, after all, predators — but the willful ignorance of human beings. So many were so invested in the notion that by thinking peaceful thoughts they could will into existence a state of peaceful affairs that they ignored the evidence right in front of them, which tended to suggest that cougars were quite happy to eat anything that was juicy, delicious, and unlikely to fight back.
That's why they call 'em... ummm... animals.
This is, as Baron notes, something of a parable — and not merely a parable of man and "nature." One need only look at the treatment of such other topics as crime, terrorism, and warfare to see examples of the same sort of misplaced sentimentality and willful ignorance. Tolerance of criminality leads to more crime; tolerance of terrorism leads to more terrorism; efforts to appear defenseless lead to war. Nonetheless, the same strand of wishful thinking appears: perhaps this time, the cougars won’t want to eat us. Some people, apparently, would rather be dinner than face up to the fact that nature is red in tooth and claw, and that — in this fallen world, at least — the lion lies down with the lamb only after the lamb’s neck is broken.
Posted by: Steve || 11/05/2003 9:27:28 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [248 views] Top|| File under:

Vindication for science: EnviroMENTALists are lying about Kyoto
This has been a nightmare of a year for aficionados of the Kyoto Accord. After Canada’s ratification of the treaty in late 2002, environmentalists had every reason to believe that few climate experts would dare continue to publicly oppose Kyoto’s science, Russia would quickly ratify the accord and it soon would become international law.
But that didn’t happen. Vlad likes the idea of warmer weather. I suspect that the Rooskies have seen through the lies as well.
Of these, none may have the long-term impact of the paper published yesterday in the prestigious British journal Energy and Environment, which explains how one of the fundamental scientific pillars of the Kyoto Accord is based on flawed calculations, incorrect data and a biased selection of climate records.
Enviros (read commies) lied?? Say it ain’t so!
The paper’s authors, Toronto-based analyst Steve McIntyre and University of Guelph economics professor Ross McKitrick, obtained the original data used by Michael Mann of the University of Virginia to support the notion that the 20th-century temperature rise was unprecedented in the past millennium. A detailed audit revealed numerous errors in the data. After correcting these and updating the source records they showed that based on Mann’s own methodologies, his original conclusion was flawed. Mann’s original version resulted in the famous "hockey stick" graph that purported to show 900 years of relative temperature stability (the shaft of the hockey stick) followed by a sharp increase (the blade) in the 20th century (see graph). The corrected version of the last thousand years actually contradicts the view promoted by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), and removes the foundation for claims of 20th-century uniqueness.
Maybe it contradicts it because of the crazies running the show out of Europe want to dismantle what industrial might the U.S. may have left.
To understand the significance of the McIntyre/McKitrick announcement, it is important to consider how our understanding of long-term climate history has evolved over the past decade.
I have a pretty good idea of how science ran amuck, funded by many of the same socialists who supported Clinton in the 90s.
In recent years, however, the case for solar variations being the 20th century’s major climate driver has become much stronger, much to the consternation of Kyoto supporters. After all, if long before human-induced GHG emission became significant, temperatures were considerably higher than today, there would be little reason to think today’s temperatures were anything unnatural. This was especially true since long-term solar records indicated that both the MWP and LIA were closely correlated with changes in solar activity, and the output of the sun has indeed been increasing during the past century’s 0.6C warming. Supporters of the GHG-induced warming hypothesis desperately needed a "smoking gun" to prop up the need for Kyoto.

Among the many mistakes in Mann’s paper, some appear blatant, some simply careless apparently due to clerical errors (for example, allocating measurements to the wrong years, "filling" tables with identical numbers for different proxies in different years, etc.). In many cases, obsolete source data was used that have since been revised by the originating researchers. As an example of their numerous "truncation errors," Mann’s Central England Temperature series stops without explanation at 1730, even though data are available back to 1659, thus hiding a major 17th century cold period. Similarly, Central Europe data are truncated at 1550, rather than 25 years earlier, for which the data are available, the effect being to remove the warmest data in the series. Of course, no one with an understanding of climate history really believes there was a dramatic temperature spike in the middle of the Little Ice Age. Yet Mann’s data and methodology actually supports such a notion, completely contradicting his contention that there was merely a gradually cooling between 1000 AD and 1900.
Well, that is what you get for partying with the Green aparatchiks and not watching what you are doing. This is all a nice way of saying the work was sloppy and possibly politically motivated.
Posted by: badanov || 11/05/2003 9:04:29 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [239 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Vlad likes the idea of warmer weather.

So do I. I rather relish the thought of being able to scoot around on my motorcycle more days out of the year.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 11:00 Comments || Top||

#2  Ummm, you might head over to Calpundit, where there is a different view (scroll down, might in his archives by now): apparently the original authors have responded and have said that these guys are all wet and made some fundamental errors. Apparently that's true.
Posted by: Steve White || 11/05/2003 11:39 Comments || Top||

#3  I live in the Tacoma area and have just been through the most fabulous spring and summer. If this is Global Warming, bring it on. Sadly PST has brought with it a very cold snap, Oh well. If I could bring back the Ice Age would you all still love me. Damn, gotta go$
Posted by: Lucky || 11/05/2003 12:29 Comments || Top||

#4  See my comments on solar flares.
Enviros tend to ignore the blindingly obvious.
Posted by: Dishman || 11/05/2003 12:38 Comments || Top||

#5  Yeah - bad math, so what?

In case no one noticed, both icecaps are melting hand over fist. The weather in Tacoma isn't going to be that great when it's 30 feet under water, though with Tacoma, that'd be an improvement.
Posted by: Mercutio || 11/05/2003 13:56 Comments || Top||

#6  Mercutio, you need to do a bit more research. According to a couple of major scientific sites, the ice in Antarctica is THICKENING, not thinning. The Arctic "melt-down" happens from time to time - say every 33 years or so, due to variations in the solar output.

Kyoto was a blatant attempt to destroy US productivity, which is why the majority of the burden to "reduce CO2" fell on the US, while the third-world nations, some whose CO2 output is almost the same as that of the US, got a pass.

Two very good sites for information about CO2 and Climate change are Envirotruth (http://www.envirotruth.org) and CO2 Science Magazine (http://www.co2science.org/). Most of the stuff published "proving" global warming is hokum, exposed by these two sites. There are many, many other sites also devoted to proving/disproving global warming. These are the best, IMHO.

Sea levels do change, but the current changes, if any, are not caused by man-induced 'global warming'. The SUN plays 99% of the role in climate change, as demonstrated by more than thirty independent studies.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 14:07 Comments || Top||

#7  Isn't it true that something like 97% of the CO2 comes from Natural sources? (I.e. cow burps, the earth itself, etc....).
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/05/2003 14:19 Comments || Top||

#8  A key requirement of the scientific method is that the results must be reproducible by others when the same procedure is used. Example: cold fusion, which was never reproduced by other scientists under controlled conditions.

When McIntyre & McKitrick attempted to do this (with Mann's help, incidentally), and were unable to reproduce the results using the same methodology used by Mann, they decided to conduct an audit of Mann's data and found many discrepencies in it. After fixing those errors and redoing the analysis, the results were still fundamentally different -- the supposedly unique increase in temperatures in the 20th century isn't unique, after all.

Mann's response (summary "you're all wet"), and the authors' response to *that* can be found on-line at this location. Although the original paper is pretty technical, the critiques & responses are quite readable. I'd suggest reading just the first couple sections of the original, then go to the linked critiques...

If you're interested, that is...
Posted by: snellenr || 11/05/2003 14:20 Comments || Top||

#9  I hope the sea levels drop again so I can find some decent spear points.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 16:28 Comments || Top||

#10  Arctic ice has exactly zero impact on sea levels, unless it somehow becomes thick enough or large enough that it grounds. Last time that happened, it also accumulated over most of North America and Europe.
Antarctic and Greenland glaciation does matter. My understanding is that the critical balance is snowfall versus sublimation. Increased sea temperatures actually shift that balance towards thicker ice.
Posted by: Dishman || 11/05/2003 17:57 Comments || Top||

Sol extends a hand: biggest solar flare EVER!
The earthlings were lucky. This time! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Just as solar scientists thought the Sun may be winding down it has unleashed the biggest solar flare ever recorded. It was so energetic that it overloaded the detectors on satellites monitoring the Sun’s surface. The blast was accompanied with a gigantic gas cloud of billions of tonnes of superhot gas being ejected into space - some of it directed at Earth. Researchers are saying that the Sun’s current spate of activity - now 10 days in duration - is the most dramatic and intense ever witnessed on the Sun’s surface.

Powerful solar flares are given an "X" designation. There was an X8 and an X3 event on Sunday. On Monday, there was an X3 flare followed by smaller ones. Last week there were X7 and X10 events that took place back-to-back. Tuesday’s flare went off the scale, researchers say it was "well above X20". This would make it the most powerful ever recorded, surpassing the X20 flares of 2 April 2001 and 16 August 1989.

The major flares have come from sunspot region 486, now officially the most active solar region in recorded solar observational history. Region 486 is being taken over the Sun’s limb by solar rotation. Parts of the latest megaflare occurred beyond the limb. Dr Paal Brekke, deputy project scientist for the Solar Heliospheric Observatory (Soho) Sun-monitoring satellite, told BBC News Online: "I think the last week will go into the history books as one of the most dramatic solar activity periods we have seen in modern times."
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 6:12:20 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [359 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Uh..... the Sun is still main sequence right?
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 7:33 Comments || Top||

#2  So far as we know.

It is somewhat variable, though.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/05/2003 8:31 Comments || Top||

#3  If Bush had just signed Kyoto, this wouldn't be happening. Right, NMM?
Posted by: Steve || 11/05/2003 9:12 Comments || Top||

#4  "I'll show you rock-bound monkeys Global Warming..."
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats || 11/05/2003 9:16 Comments || Top||

#5  the Sun is still main sequence right?

Hmmm, let's see...

Corrupt Pres. survives impeachment... check
Dennis Miller becomes Republican... check
Massive series of solar flares... check

My calculations suggest that the cycles are all peaking in November 2004 -- if the new Pope is Muslim and Dennis Kucinich is elected President, then the Sun will explode shortly thereafter...
Posted by: Potiphar Breen || 11/05/2003 9:18 Comments || Top||

#6  if the new Pope is Muslim and Dennis Kucinich is elected President, then the Sun will explode shortly thereafter...

We can only hope it does in that case....
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/05/2003 9:27 Comments || Top||

#7  That's one hell of an encore. Better sell your stock in Japanese satellites!

Are we sure Al Qaeda isn't behind this? Or ELF? Or that Santa-Clausian nutjob with the wrench behind the transmission tower sabotage?
Posted by: Dar || 11/05/2003 9:41 Comments || Top||

#8  Corrupt Pres. survives impeachment... check
Dennis Miller becomes Republican... check
Massive series of solar flares... check

That's freaky. I didn't know Dennis Miller went Republican.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 10:58 Comments || Top||

#9  I thought we were boycotting the RU486 sunspot region.

Oh, well. Don't blame me: I voted for Kodos.
Posted by: Eric Jablow || 11/05/2003 12:08 Comments || Top||

#10  I'm getting a little tired of running for my life for the last two weeks over these things. Think this time I'll just sit tight and hope for the best.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 12:27 Comments || Top||

#11  Sol is nominally 1% variable, IIRC.

Essentially, Sol is ringing. The shortest harmonics are 11 years, and some have been documented at 500 years or longer. It could well have harmonics of 50,000 years. All these harmonics add up, producing varying levels of sunspot activity. On top of this, Earth's orbit is slightly erratic, which accounts for ice ages.

The best book I've found on the subject is "The Sun in Time" by Giampapa, Matthews and Sonnett. Warning, it's heavy reading. My only real beef with it is that it does not include any estimation of where we are in the cycles.

As for Dennis Miller, I've always thought he was a Republican at heart.
Posted by: Dishman || 11/05/2003 12:36 Comments || Top||

#12  It seems to me that to predict the cycles of the sun, one could use a mathematical equation called a Fourier Series, which is the sum of a periodic function, such as a sine wave and a bunch of harmonics. In order to predict the sunspot activity, we need to know all the cycles. We have the 11 year cycle figured out, but long term ones are beyond our collective memory and span of observation.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/05/2003 14:16 Comments || Top||

#13  My only real beef with it is that it does not include any estimation of where we are in the cycles.

What? I knew it... no way to know if we've slipped out of the main sequence? Take back the damn rocks... I blame this all on the Kennedy tax cuts.
(Staying on message)
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 16:34 Comments || Top||

#14  About 5 years ago I went looking for the very same calculation, and couldn't find it. It's worth noting, however, that sunspot activity calculations were heavily based their impact on temperature.
Posted by: Dishman || 11/05/2003 18:04 Comments || Top||

#15  Some professor at Hebrew University in Jerusalem has caluclated there are at least 22 different cycles, which possibly change every 23 million years as the Earth passes through the gap between the spiral arms of the Milky Way. Some of those cycles are as long as 12,000 years, IIRC. A different article that I read on TCS stated that cosmic ray activity also affected both solar stability and directly impacted climate on Earth. I think we're at the stage in climate studies where we're just beginning to understand the question, and are still trying to collect enough data to make a first approximation. NOT ANYWHERE CLOSE enough to make long-term predictions, or even rough approximations. This is one reason why I find Kyoto so offensive - we're told we have to make drastic lifestyle changes, when we don't even understand what's going on, or why.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 19:56 Comments || Top||

#16  I'm surprised that this hasn't been blamed on Bush not signing the Kyoto treaty yet!
Posted by: Dev || 11/05/2003 23:22 Comments || Top||

#17  OP---Great post. Gets to the heart of the matter(s).
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/05/2003 23:51 Comments || Top||

Iceland offers to take over Kabul Airport
Iceland has offered to take over coordination of Kabul’s international airport for the NATO-led peacekeeping force in Afghanistan, a NATO source said Wednesday.
Thank you, Iceland.
Iceland, the only NATO member without an army, has led a multinational force managing Pristina airport since March as part of the NATO-led peacekeeping mission (KFOR) in the UN-administered province of Kosovo. Reykjavik has proposed to do the same in Kabul after Germany expressed its intention to end its management of the airport in February, a NATO official who asked not to be named said.
Sounds like a dark plot by Iceland to seize control of all the hellhole airports in the world. Next thing you know they’ll be after Logan. Hummmm...
ISAF has recently had contacts with the World Bank and the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) to discuss the development of Kabul’s airport, the NATO official said. The UN last month authorized ISAF forces to deploy outside of the capital in an attempt to provide more security ahead of elections next year.
NATO ambassadors also welcomed the recent decision by Norway to send an extra 200 soldiers to provide protection to the 500-member Loya Jirga, or grand assembly, which is due to debate and adopt a new constitution in December.
Posted by: Steve || 11/05/2003 4:05:24 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [371 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Iceland Air already flies out of Logan, it should be easy for them. Incredible looking stewardesses, excuse me, flight attendents!
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 16:12 Comments || Top||

#2  From Rantburg, July 2003: Nato faces rift over US plan to remove jets from Iceland
Posted by: Seafarious || 11/05/2003 16:26 Comments || Top||

#3  Iceland, the only NATO member without an army

Iceland got Iceman... who needs an army.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 16:36 Comments || Top||

#4  Steve, they're welcome to Logan, but hands off Manchester, NH -- the local sane alternative to Logan...
Posted by: Carl in N.H. || 11/05/2003 17:59 Comments || Top||

#5  Made a brief (unplanned) stop in Rejkivek in 1974, on my way back to the States on emergency leave. The Icelanders are a hearty group of nice people who don't like to be messed with. If they took over Kabul, expect the heads of some of the locals to be broken. As for an army, they really don't need one - the locals are quite capable of defending their island, and trying to conquer it would make about as much sense as trying to capture Spitzbergen. Nice combination of freezing cold and boiling hot springs, thanks to their location on the top of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 20:01 Comments || Top||

#6  Seafarious,
I understand why the DOD would think that Iceland is no longer an important strategically. Personally, I am wary of assuming that we will never engage in anti-submarine warfare again. I Beleive in Power Projection and Protection of Shipping Lanes - call me old fashion.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 20:32 Comments || Top||

#7  Settled by Vikings, invented parliament, Icelandic sagas, and they recently started hunting whales again. Iceland still tops my list of countries that aren't the US.
Posted by: Christopher Johnson || 11/05/2003 21:03 Comments || Top||

#8  Steve Heard they were offered Logan but are holding out for Baghdad IA
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 23:15 Comments || Top||

Mulla Omar’s aide wants regime change in Pakistan
A close aide to Taliban leader Mullah Muhammad Omar has said he hopes the Pakistani government will change soon and Islamabad’s help to Islamic militias resumes with President Pervez Musharraf’s exit from power. In an interview with Daily Times at an undisclosed location in southern Afghanistan, Maulvi Akhter Muhammad, an economic advisor to Mullah Omar, said President Musharraf and a few other generals “betrayed” the Taliban and they would not stay for long in power. “(President) Musharraf and a few generals acted against Islam and the Taliban (after September 11). Such people will not hold power for long in Pakistan,” said Mr Muhammad.
Not if Qazi, Fazl and Sami have anything to say about it...
He said the Taliban had nothing to say against Pakistan. “We know the people of Pakistan still support the Taliban. What we have to say about Pakistan is that Musharraf and a few generals caused damage to the Taliban’s cause,” a Daily Times source who met Mr Muhammad quoted him as saying. He denied Pakistan supported the Taliban’s attacks against Afghan President Hamid Karzai’s government and argued, “How can one support you when he is your enemy? After September 11, Pakistan has not been helping the Taliban. The Pakistani ruler is no longer the Taliban’s supporter. He is now our enemy.” Asked how the Taliban financed their struggle against the present Kabul regime, Mr Muhammad said, “Through public donations.” Pressed to give details as to how the Islamic militia was able to get donations and whether they came from outside Afghanistan, he responded, “Let’s keep it secret.”
Big secret. I think we can guess where the money comes from...
The Daily Times source said he was amazed the way the Taliban was regrouping and said it was a clear sign of long-term resistance. “They have good means of communication and even Pentium-4 laptops are being used to stay in touch with other people. I also saw nice 4x4 vehicles and motorcycles, which they use for transportation in rugged, hilly areas,” the source said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:01 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [223 views] Top|| File under:

#1  And don't even get him started how many Escalades they got with double deuces! Courtesy of Saudi Arabia the Bushes home away from home.
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 0:29 Comments || Top||

#2  Maulvi Akhter Muhammad, an economic advisor to Mullah Omar

I wonder what sort of advice he gave, considering the Taliban's entire treasury was kept in two chests in Mullah Omar's house.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 11/05/2003 2:59 Comments || Top||

#3  I see NMM is trying to set a daily record for stupid comments - the solar flare, governorship losses, and yesterday's comments record got him really jacked up - switch to decaf NMM
Posted by: Frank G || 11/05/2003 8:32 Comments || Top||

#4  "I also saw nice 4x4 vehicles and motorcycles"
Good, especialy the motorcycles have a very nice FLIR signature.
Posted by: chinditz || 11/05/2003 9:34 Comments || Top||

#5  whatever you think of NMM's comments, yesterday i saw yet another quote in a respectable newspaper quoting a "senior admin official" criticizing DoD policy in Iraq. It obviously wasnt a DoD official. Im sure it want Condi. I doubt the paper was lying, or misusing the word "senior" Id be very surprised if it wasnt a certain ex-JCS chairman who now holds a senior cabinet position. Yet again speaking out of turn, attacking his own admin via leak. And what doe Dubya do about this pal of his Dad? This noted friend of Saudi? NOTHING.

The Dems (with one or two shining exceptions) may be stupid in foreign policy, but this admin has plenty of its own problems.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/05/2003 9:38 Comments || Top||

#6  As much as I'd love to see Powell out and someone with a spine in charge of State (Rumsfeld!), can you imagine the reaction if Bush ousted Powell?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/05/2003 9:56 Comments || Top||

#7  Laptops, 4x4 vehicles and motorcycles? Hmmm. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these all products that were researched, designed and manufactured by infidels, crusaders and maybe even joos? How come they aren't using Islamic products, designed by the skilled graduates of the reknown Islamic universities and built in the great Islamic industrial centers?
Posted by: SteveS || 11/05/2003 10:00 Comments || Top||

#8  Might actually work in our favor. With the guy that (supposedly) supports us out of there, it'll give us free reign to go in and bomb the shit out of those Taliban base camps in the NWFP.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 10:10 Comments || Top||

#9  If they're using infidel technology, then they can be found, and eventually will be.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 11:05 Comments || Top||

#10  If I were Mullah Omar, I'd be very, very careful about what I said, and even more careful about what I did. Can you see the Indians sitting by while a Taliban-supported government took power in Pak-land? India, close to 1Bn people, Pak-land about 240mil. India, huge reserves of just about EVERYTHING, most unexploited, Pakland about 40% desert, with some gas and oil, but with Bugtis blowing up the pipeline every couple of months.

The British partitioned the old Indian Raj into a Hindu state (India) and a non-Hindu state (Pakistan, also including what is now Bangladesh). It was supposed to cut down on sectarian violence. Unfortunately, Muslim Pakistan never took that seriously (Jammu & Kashmir, Muslim infiltration of Hindu territory elsewhere). Sooner or later, India will have to respond. When that happens, it won't be pretty. Mullah Omar's interference into Pakistan politics may be the tipping point.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 11:09 Comments || Top||

#11  Sounds like a job for... Lo-Jack!
Posted by: Fred || 11/05/2003 11:17 Comments || Top||

#12  The British partitioned the old Indian Raj into a Hindu state (India) and a non-Hindu state (Pakistan, also including what is now Bangladesh). It was supposed to cut down on sectarian violence.

Hate to disagree, OP, but I'm pretty sure that's not right. The British wanted India to remain united, even after it became free. It was (shockingly!) the Muslims that wanted their own, separate state. The partitioning was done after independence, and stripped away the Muslim majority regions to form Pakistan.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/05/2003 11:41 Comments || Top||

#13  Robert, you may be right. I'll have to check more than one source - I've found more than one factual error in the "History of the British Commonwealth" I own. Either way, Pakistan lost Bangladesh - formerly East Pakistan (with a bit of Indian help), and have been whining about it ever since. I personally thought the decision had been made inside the British Raj, since both Pakistan's independence day (Oct 1, 1947) and India's attainment of Dominion Status (Aug 15, 1947) are so close - only a matter of days. India didn't become an independent state until almost three years later - January 1, 1950.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 12:13 Comments || Top||

#14  Pak Independence Day : 14th August
Indian Independence Day: 15th August
(You should watch/hear the mud slinging matches they have when both PMs (or usually general in case of Pakland) given their speaches on their respective independence days.)
Indian republic day: 26 January (i.e. when it got a constitution and democratically elected government). Don't know about Pakland.

With regards to the British wanting to keep the country united, I'm afraid that's not true. They told Nehru they would only grant independence if he agreed to partition. Which he agreed to since he was a fucking Commie anyway and splitting up the country would be small price to pay for his dynasty.
Posted by: rg117 || 11/05/2003 13:07 Comments || Top||

Sheikh al-Lhaidan utters Ramadan platitudes
The Chairman of the Supreme Judiciary Council, Sheikh Saleh Bin Mohammed Al-Lhaidan, has advised Muslims worldwide to take the opportunity to benefit from the blessed month of Ramadan and to fear the almighty Allah and ask Him to grant mercy to all believers world-wide. Answering a question about increasing misfortunes and accusations framed against the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia that it exports extremism, he said that this was baseless, adding that Saudi Arabia adheres to the Holy Qur'an and the Hadith (Prophet Mohammad's traditions) which have all means of happiness as Prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him, urges Muslims to opt for moderation.
Yeah. We've certainly seen that. Sometimes, in fact, Muslims take their moderation to extremes...
Referring to these accusations of certain quarters, Sheikh Al-Lhaidan said "What they have been saying are the natural outcome of their hatred toward this country as it is free from disputes and problems", he said.
"Except for an occasional shootout here and there, of course..."
In reply to another question about the gatherings, described by some people as "demonstrations" Sheikh Al-Lhaidan said that these gatherings are not legitimate and the authorities have to forbid them due to the fact that such things come from the adoption of other countries' traditions. He added that these gatherings are not the appropriate way to support justice and end injustice and asked Allah to guide all people who have gone astray to the straight path. He advised those who had participated in these gatherings to stop such deeds and to make re-assessment of themselves as these practices are clear deviations from the right path and from the traditions of their Muslim ancestors, who had never engaged in such acts.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 14:26 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [240 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Opt for moderation...take the cannolli.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 16:52 Comments || Top||

Dr. Al-Ghamdi gives a tour...
Dr. Abdulaziz Bin Saqer Al-Ghamdi, the President of Naif Arab Academy for Security Sciences received here on Tuesday the Jordanian Ambassador to the Kingdom, Dr. Hani Khalifah. During the meeting, they reviewed aspects of cooperation between the Academy and its similar institution in Jordan. The Ambassador toured the academy and listened to a briefing on its activities and facilities.
The Soddies have an al-Ghamdi in charge of the "Arab Academy for Security Sciences." I think I see what the problem is, here...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 14:10 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [252 views] Top|| File under:

#1  What is the over/under on the al-Ghamdi clan these days? Seems every rock you turn over has one of them under it.
Posted by: Steve || 11/05/2003 15:36 Comments || Top||

Qaeda planned to kill pilgrims in Mecca: Riyadh
Qaeda fighters were plotting to kill Muslim pilgrims in the holy city of Mecca during the fasting month of Ramadan, the Saudi interior minister said after security forces shot dead two “terrorists”.
Banged those "terrorists" right through the "brisket," by golly. Now they're "dead."
All eight members of an Islamist cell smashed in Mecca on Monday were from the Al Qaeda network run by Saudi-born terror mastermind Osama bin Laden, Prince Nayef bin Abdul Aziz told Tuesday’s Al-Riyadh newspaper. “Undoubtedly, they all belong to the same movement and follow the same tactics,” the minister said when asked if the cell was linked to Al-Qaeda which the Saudi authorities blamed for killing 35 people in Riyadh in May.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:01 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [346 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Anyone believe this? Al Qaeda striking pilgrims in Mecca? Looks more like a Saudi attempt to keep GW happy
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 0:32 Comments || Top||

#2  NMM-
You would not believe the level of pure, flat out nasty sectarian crime, hatred and pure-d violence that goes on in Mecca. There have been at least two or three shootouts that were simply too big for the Saudis to hush up, and rumors of far more.
Besides, if you're OBL and you think you're the Next Caliph/Mahdi anyways, what's a few pilgrims? They should be glad they gave their lives for the Religion Of Peace (TM).

Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 11/05/2003 1:17 Comments || Top||

#3  I don't put this past OBL at all. I put it infront of his smeared DNA on the cave wall.

This was most likely ordered by his son in Iran. Spite for helping Americans.

" Muslims who help the infidels ARE infidels! They must die! Newborn infants first, followed by children and women! Not the men though, we need them to help fight when we blame it on the JOOOOOS! "
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 3:42 Comments || Top||

#4  Remember, the original reason Osama claimed for 9/11 was that infidels were in Saudi Arabia. They've always held that the House of Saud were in cahoots with the west, and always wanted to out them and take over.

NMM, Don't you recognize the pattern?

Terrorists strike in Israel, so ISRAEL should give in, give up, and just die.

Terrorists strike in Baghdad, so AMERICA should give in, give up, and leave. (Dying comes later).

So, terrorists Strike in Mecca, claim the Saudis incompetent to protect the holy places, and demand that they give in, give up, and leave.

OH, I forgot, you haven't got the brain cells to RECOGNIZE a pattern. My bad.
Posted by: Ptah || 11/05/2003 5:41 Comments || Top||

#5  Actually there aren't that many pilgrims for Ramadan (typically less than 50,000). The big pilgramige (typically 2-3 million) to see the black rock is two months from now.

A few dozen nasties with an automatic weapon and a view could produce a big bad.
Posted by: mhw || 11/05/2003 8:09 Comments || Top||

#6  The amount of al-Q's"finest", meating an "unfortunate" end in the fraudi-kingdom is staggering,BTW the focus and retoric of al-Q has changed over the last couple of months from the U.S. to moderate muslim country's who :"don't travel the true road of islam", i think staging a big hit during the raj could, in some perverse way be seen as productive by the jihadi's.
Posted by: chinditz || 11/05/2003 9:48 Comments || Top||

#7  Ptah The pattern you've cited consists of strikes against "infidels" and Jooos, I don't think killing fellow Moslems in their "holy city" fits that pattern.
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 11/05/2003 10:34 Comments || Top||

#8  I have to side with NMM on this one.

Al-Q is no going to alienate their fan base (unlike the dixie chicks)

Anyone know how the arabic press is reporting the incident?
Posted by: flash81 || 11/05/2003 10:48 Comments || Top||

#9  Try this on for size:

- Al Q hits New York, Washington. The US reacts by invading first Afghanistan, where Al Q is hiding, then Iraq. The US in Iraq has a central view commanding all the Arab nations.

- Al Q responds by sending tens of thousands of jihadis into Iraq, where they get whacked and disappear into the night.

- Al Q, desperate for a big hit, strikes Saudi Arabia, which turns and starts hitting back.

- Al Q, even more desperate, tries to do a major operation in Mecca, again get whacked.

Something tells me that OBL and his "friends" have been hitting the opium pipe a bit heavily, and are getting really, really sloppy in who they trust, and in what they try to do. I hope the trend continues until there are no Al Q or their wannabe clones left.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 11:23 Comments || Top||

#10  Beeb suggests that they were hiding in Mecca, but planned to hit Riyadh again, and Soddies say they wanted to hit Mecca to stir up sympathy. Could be true, they hid in Florida, they didnt attack Florida.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/05/2003 11:41 Comments || Top||

#11  Al-Q is no going to alienate their fan base (unlike the dixie chicks)

How would Al-Qaida be the recipient of blame if a terrorist attack was carried out in Mecca by Al-Qaida operatives? Given the Muslim penchant for blaming everybody else for their ills, it's far more likely some other scapegoat would be found. I could see the denial now: "Muslims wouldn't do this to their fellow Muslims."
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 11:43 Comments || Top||

#12  how about this; Al Queda strikes Mecca and blames it on the Dixie Chicks (I heard one of them has a sister married to a jewish guy).
Posted by: mhw || 11/05/2003 12:38 Comments || Top||

#13  Al-Q is no going to alienate their fan base

If anything, it might make them more favorable to their base. The House of Saud isn't exactly looked upon with favor by these guys, no matter how much or long they've pandered to the Wahabbi factions.
Posted by: Pappy || 11/05/2003 12:42 Comments || Top||

#14  Al-Q will do anything to stay alive. They're desperate and doing anything they can to strike back. If that means sacrificing a few Muslims, they won't care. How many Muslims do you think died in the 9/11 attacks? How many Muslims do you think worked at the Trade Center?

Sacrificing fellow Muslims has never been a problem. Most likely, they were going to attack our interests somehow in Riyadh, with Muslims getting caught in the explosion.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 14:08 Comments || Top||

#15  Remember that the Mecca Mosque was taken over for many days around 1980 by guys who were sick and tired of the Royal Family. There were people killed, wounded, etc. So there is a precedent for bloody action there. Maybe this plot included even a reproduction; i.e. another takeover with who-knows-what kind of ransom demands on RF, and not just a shoot-em-up-and-run operation. Use your imagination: Fahad should step down, to be replaced by FILL IN BLANK; TV time and interviews time with selected journalists, etc.

But still, part of me does not discount RF cooking this up to show rest of Umma that the RF is the only legit caretaker of Mecca and Medinah mosques.
Ah, the Magic Kingdom.
Posted by: Michael || 11/05/2003 15:15 Comments || Top||

#16  Fred, are you taking odds on how many are named Al Ghamdi? The correct answer is zero - they were prolly running the cell and wouldn't stoop so low as to actually belong to one. When an Al Ghamdi gets bagged, you've tapped into Saudi Middle Management.

Amen, Michael, the Magic Kingdom, indeed! BTW, what tribe are you from Michael? I belong to the right-handed green-eyed Scots-Comanche wanderlust programmers, myself. I know we gotta have wanderlust in common!
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 15:44 Comments || Top||

#17  Hey com... you ain't dawg soldier are ya? If you are... I deem you Abu TrollSlicer.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 16:41 Comments || Top||

#18  Shit, for Abu TrollSlicer I'm tempted! Heh. But no joy - that's not me. He a good gamer?
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 17:01 Comments || Top||

#19  I stand vindicated, NMM.
Posted by: Ptah || 11/05/2003 18:57 Comments || Top||

#20  He a good gamer?.

Most of the Dog guys weren't into gaming. Ever hear of a movie called "Comanche Autumn"? Released in the UK as the "Story of O **** I Thought They Were Gone"

My Dad used his Kennedy tax cut to take us to see that one.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 19:53 Comments || Top||

#21  Sez you Ptah! I don't think AQ will alienate their fan base, but only time will tell which one of us is right. I think there is a possibility of a massacre in Mecca--but they would NEVER claim responsibility for it--they'd blame the US
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 23:30 Comments || Top||

N.Irish Police Quiz Man Over Al Qaeda Links
Police in Northern Ireland said on Wednesday they were questioning a North African national suspected of having links to al Qaeda.
Ah, yes, the infamous North Africans.
A spokesman for the Police Service of Northern Ireland said: "A man is being questioned about serious crime and about possessing information likely to be of use to terrorists. We are unable to discuss his custody further at this time. For operational reasons we are unable to say anything about where he was arrested or when he was arrested."
"I can say no more."
However, security sources confirmed the Algerian suspect, who was arrested in Belfast on Monday, has since been taken to Gough Barracks in Armagh for questioning. A court has granted police an extra 72 hours to question him, they added. The sources also played down the suggestion of any link between the suspect and paramilitary organizations in the British-ruled province.
Gee, now what group do you suppose they aren’t talking about?
The arrest is understood to be the first connected with al Qaeda in Northern Ireland.
Well, just because he’s a suspected terrorist from Algeria doesn’t mean he has connections to al-Qaeda. They have plenty of their own.
Posted by: Steve || 11/05/2003 8:57:17 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [232 views] Top|| File under:

#1  this reminds me of an old joke.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/05/2003 11:44 Comments || Top||

UK Chancellor Gordon Brown blasts EU federalism
The Telegraph analyses Brown’s own piece, Flexibility, not federalism, is key to this competitive new world, also in today’s paper. EFL
Gordon Brown has raised the stakes in the battle over a new European constitution by demanding categorical assurances that it will not lead to the harmonisation of taxes and a federal European state. Returning to the political front line after two weeks paternity leave, the Chancellor exposes a growing rift between the Treasury and No 10 over the importance of the proposed constitution for a 25-member European Union.
This is significant as Brown’s regarded as Blair’s most likely successor.
Writing in The Telegraph today Mr Brown calls on EU leaders explicitly to reject "grandiose schemes" for harmonising corporate and other taxes and back Britain’s plans for tax competition. He says the EU must abandon "old flawed assumptions that a single market should lead inexorably to tax harmonisation, fiscal federalism and then a federal state". Mr Brown calls on EU leaders to remove "ambiguities" from the draft constitution that could undermine the role of national governments in economic decision-making.
He wants to avoid having the British foot in the French bucket...
His decision to draw attention to concerns over the implications of the constitution is in sharp contrast to repeated lies assurances from Tony Blair that it will not threaten Britain’s ability to set its own taxes or change fundamentally this country’s constitutional relationship with the EU. The Chancellor’s language, particularly raising the spectre of a slide towards a "federal state", has strong eurosceptic overtones. In his article today, Mr Brown contrasts the "rigidities, inflexibilities and lack of competitiveness" of the rest of Europe with the more flexible and open economies of Britain and the United States. He claims that Britain is leading the European recovery. More countries now agreed that keeping the veto on tax and rejecting federal approaches to fiscal policy "are not only right for Britain but right for Europe too". Mr Brown said continental Europe was failing economically while Britain’s economy was flourishing. While tax harmonisation might be the way forward for a "sheltered trade bloc", it was not the future for the EU member states in a competitive global market. He is concerned that the draft constitution is too loosely worded on whether economic policy should be driven by nation states, the European Commission or the European Parliament. Mr Brown’s call for Europe to copy the US will be supported today by Denis MacShane, the minister for Europe. In a speech in London he will say it is time the EC woke up to the growing economic weakness of Europe. Romano Prodi, the EC president, "should worry less about more powers for Brussels and worry more about more jobs for Europe", according to Mr MacShane.

The Telegraph Editor also notes that:
His duel with the Prime Minister, which reached new heights at the Labour conference in Bournemouth, can only end with the political demise of one or the other. Mr Brown seems to be calculating that Mr Blair’s refusal to concede a referendum on the European constitution could be his electoral Achilles’ heel. If the constitution matters as much as Mr Brown now says it does, why is Mr Blair refusing to give the country a vote on it?
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 6:38:15 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [235 views] Top|| File under:

#1  All of this is a prelude to the Tories electing a new leader (Michael Howard?)and how he takes them down the road. This EU constitution and the Euro itself are very big issues in the UK - more so than Iraq, Man Utd., and the Queen's fairy! Howard is staunchly anti-Euro and an extremely good debater - watch him, if he wins, during PMQ on C-Span. He will eat Blair's lunch but he is still somewhat vulnerable due to his stint as Home Secty. There is a strong underclass and left-wing in UK that will be out to get him. Brown, may be starting to take advantage of all this - an energized Tory resistence, Blair's downbeat popularity over Iraq, the EU and Euro decisions, etc. This may be a much more exciting political battle than the 9 dumbocrats and their circus.
Posted by: Jack is Back! || 11/05/2003 8:26 Comments || Top||

#2  im confused - i thought brown was seen as to the left of Tony, and the left tended to be more pro-european then the right. Is this some subtle aspect of Labour politics? IE moderate tories less euroskeptic than Thatcherites, Labour more pro-euro than Tories, BUT once you get inside Labour, the farther left is NOT more pro-european than the third way Blairites? Perhaps for all the talk of Eurosocialism, they fear being submerged into a europe dominated by third wayism, much as Tories do? Or is it simply personalities between Brown and Blair?
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/05/2003 9:46 Comments || Top||

#3  Howard is staunchly anti-Euro and an extremely good debater - watch him, if he wins, during PMQ on C-Span. He will eat Blair's lunch but he is still somewhat vulnerable due to his stint as Home Secty.

I'm not going to get too optimistic re. Howard's performances in the HoC, as he wasn't that great as Home Sec, but I'm sure he'll attract more public attention than IDS has done.

No need to feel confused, LH. You've got it nailed pretty well, except maybe the [p]erhaps for all the talk of Eurosocialism, they fear being submerged into a europe dominated by third wayism bit. Britain being dominated by Europe is simpler and sufficient. Both parties have Europhile elements, but they're fewer in number in the Tory party (two notables are Ken Clarke and Chris Patten (who's spun out of the solar system of rational thought since taking up sticks on the continent)). Brown's to the left of Blair only marginally, but he's got a clearer grasp of economic fundamentals than Blair and is not driven by the same wishful/wooly thinking as Blair when it comes to Europe. No doubt he's going to exploit Blair's Achilles heel, but he's right to do so.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 10:27 Comments || Top||

#4  so would Brown be likely to continue Blair's policies wrt to the war on terrorism, Iraq, etc?
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/05/2003 11:47 Comments || Top||

#5  I've never understood why the Europeans have jumped straight into a single state when a loose confederation would have made an easier to swallow first step. One type of coinage yes, a uniform system of compatible military procurement, yes, but what's the hurry with harmonizing taxes? Give the EU 1% off the top of everyone's taxes for starters and let the states handle their own affairs. Then if the EU grows the tax burdon can slowly shift.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 13:03 Comments || Top||

#6  There was an interesting article in the Euobserver last Friday about the coming fight on economic fines for France: Duisenberg warns of 'disaster' for Europe ahead of stormy meeting
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 13:21 Comments || Top||

#7  LH, I'm pretty sure he would. He kept fairly quiet re Iraq, leaving Blair, Straw etc. to put their heads above the parapet, but he never made any objecting noises either. The reticence was more about keeping his hands clean for the future, IMO
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 13:47 Comments || Top||

#8  I'm glad someone in the UK still opposes Eurabia.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 14:12 Comments || Top||

#9  Yank,
The difficulty is there are 2 completely differant views on what the EU should become.1 is of an economic Confederation of nations sharing a single currency and no trade barriers/tarriffs between members.The other view is of a political merging of peoples into one nation of Europe.In the economic view,individual nations agree to common goals,ideals,etc. but reserve to themselves the manner in achieving them.In the political view the EU(Or whatever it will call itself)dictates the goals and leaves the reduced national governments the task of fulfilling the mandates.The differance between the two views is,the nation in the economic version can decide a particular goal is not important to it and ignore it.In the political union,the nation must implement whatever and however the EU has mandated.
As to why no common military procurement,let's use tanks as an example.Britain,France,Germany and Italy all manufacture tanks.If a Euro-common tank is to be procured,which country gets order?More importantly,which 3 countries must lay off workers and close factories?You could divide up work(Italy engines,England cannons,etc.)but transportation,differ wages,work weeks,etc.,drive up costs.And you still have voters to convince.
Posted by: Stephen || 11/05/2003 15:45 Comments || Top||

#10  As to why no common military procurement,let's use tanks as an example.
Frigates would be better. The joint Anglo-French-Italian Common New Generation Frigate (CNGF) project fell apart largely because of ranglings over which country would supply what kit IIRC, though there were other issues like differences over the exact role of the CNGF & the UK's need to have a new AAW frigate ASAP to replace the Type-42s.
Posted by: Dave || 11/05/2003 16:23 Comments || Top||

#11  ...There's the Eurofighter project though, which has produced the goods. Goods so late they'll be obsolete by the time they're operational, and far more expensive that anticipated...

Stephen, you miss out the most popular view of the future of the EU (at least in the UK) - and that's pretty much view 1, but without the confederation bit or the single currency bit. I. e. an EU which does NOT involve further political or social integration but which remains a simple trade facilitaion bloc.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 16:29 Comments || Top||

#12  Bulldog, that's a good view, and I think one that is workable, except for one nasty little sticking point - France. The French, IIRC, are the ones driving the common currency, driving the common government, the EU Constitution, the EU court, et. cetera, ad nausium. Can Europe come together enough to stand up to France (and Germany and Belgium, who are siding with her) enough to keep this leaky boat afloat?
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 20:30 Comments || Top||

Down Under
Australia moves to ban Hamas and Lashkar-e-Taiba
The Australian government said Tuesday it would seek powers to ban Pakistan-based Islamist militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba and Palestinian group Hamas. Attorney General Philip Ruddock told parliament that the Lashkar-e-Taiba “has links with Australia and therefore does pose a threat to Australia and Australian interests”. A bill would be presented to parliament on Wednesday, he said, pointing out that LeT was known to have carried out many deadly attacks in the sub-continent.
I'm surprised they haven't banned both groups already. But I hope they put a provision in that the ban applies to the groups, whatever names they happen to be operating under.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:02 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [229 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hmm Australia buys a clue--as opposed to perfidious Albion which supplies jihadi nutz to Iraq via Jordan and countenances Izlamomonutz in central Londistan. But Phrawnce is the problem...oops I forgot Bulldog, France is the supporter of Islamic terrorism--just like FRANCE coddled that bastard that killed Daniel Pearl
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 0:37 Comments || Top||

#2  Currently Australia can only ban orgs that are banned by the UN, but thankfully the Australian governent is going to 'unilaterally' ban these brave freedumb fighters.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 11/05/2003 2:37 Comments || Top||

#3  britain supported the EU banning Hamas, France opposed.

And cheers for Australia.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/05/2003 9:47 Comments || Top||

Pro-French Algerians sue over treatment in 1962
ONE of the last surviving members of former French president Charles de Gaulle’s government is being sued over the deaths of tens of thousands of pro-French Algerians following allegations they were left to a brutal fate at the end of the Algerian war of independence in the 1960s. Pierre Messmer, the former armed forces minister under General de Gaulle, is at the centre of accusations in a lawsuit filed yesterday in Paris by representatives of the pro-French Algerians. They accuse Mr Messmer, 87, of crimes against humanity, saying he implemented a deliberately racist policy in which white settlers were evacuated to safety by the French forces as the war drew to a close while the pro-French Algerians were left to meet their fate at the hands of the victorious Algerian National Liberation Front. Between 70,000 and 150,000 of them died in the brutal reprisals which followed. The legal action was triggered by a new book, A French Lie by Georges-Marc Benamou, alleging Gen de Gaulle refused any escape route to loyal Algerians in 1962. Mr Messmer claims pro-French Algerians were offered integration into the French army or a small pay-off, and most took the latter.
Is anybody not suing anybody else? Brussels must be a very weird place this year...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:02 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [349 views] Top|| File under:

#1  As a Scottish American I want my stone of Scone back or unlimited scones at Starbucks!
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 0:40 Comments || Top||

#2  Brutal reprisals is an euphemism. They were killed in the most sadistic fashion: castrated, electrocuted, boiled, sawn.

Messmer escaped France June, 17th 1940 (ie one day before De Gaulle first broadcast calling for french joining the British) by hijacking a Vichy ship and he was a war hero in WWII but here he is lying: the truth is that French officers who tried to help harkis (loyalist Algerians) to reach France were threatened with sanctions by Messmer (who was following De Gaulle's orders) and that in fact the FLN would have been unable to take control over Algeria since the harkis outnumbered the FLN people. They were duped by the French Army who disarmed them. And then the FLN had his way with them.

Some French officers disobeyed orders and managed to save their harkis.

When I was in the Army I was in the same tent than the son of a harki. One day our MRE had beef and pork in it so I offered him to eat all the pork and leave him all the beef. Despite being a Muslim he refused and gladly ate half the beef and half the pork.

Posted by: JFM || 11/05/2003 1:15 Comments || Top||

#3  Very sad. But so very French.
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 7:55 Comments || Top||

#4  NMM: If you're a true Scot, you know that the Stone of Scone was returned to Edinburgh Castle in 1996. It was in all the papers...
Posted by: snellenr || 11/05/2003 9:26 Comments || Top||

#5  Of all the French betrayls, Algeria ranks as the worst. It was the equivalant of our abandoning New Mexico because the Apaches revolted. Hundreds of thousands of French citizens were tossed to the tender mercies of the FLN. The 13th Demi-brigade was right.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 11/05/2003 12:04 Comments || Top||

#6  Mr Simmins and others

While I was the guy who aired the bitter and shameful story of the harkis I would advise you to remind about the fate of theSouth Vietnamese, Cambodains and H'Mong who had trusted the US.

Posted by: JFM || 11/05/2003 15:24 Comments || Top||

#7  You're right JFM... I'll ask my neighbors about that and perhaps borrow some shrimp.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 16:48 Comments || Top||

#8  We evacuated over 300,000, and probably left that many behind. Nasty, stupid, and short-sighted of the US Government under our only appointed President, Gerald Ford. The Democratic-controlled Congress has a hefty weight of guilt for this imbroglio, as well.

I helped host one of the Vietnamese refugees, and later tried to adopt a Vietnamese child. I'm still a bit bitter about how the testicle-challenged Congress handled the entire fiasco. It is NOT one of the bright points in this nation's existence.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 20:40 Comments || Top||

#9  OP There are still Hmong refugees being brought to the US by church and veterans groups mainly in the Carolinas that I'm aware of.
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 23:34 Comments || Top||

Algerian appeals life sentence for 1995 Paris bombings
The appeals hearing of an Algerian sentenced to life in prison last year for a series of Paris bomb attacks in 1995 that left eight people dead and 200 others wounded opened Monday in a special Paris court. Boualem Bensaid, 35, was convicted last year of planting the bombs used in two attacks and helping to plan a third bombing in the French capital between July and October 1995. But on appeal, the court will focus on the deadly attack in a commuter train at the Saint Michel station in the Latin Quarter that killed eight people, as Bensaid was originally only convicted as an accomplice in that incident. Bensaid has denied all involvement in the Saint Michel bombing, which left 150 people wounded, and his lawyer has asked that he be acquitted on that charge.
"Nope. Nope. Wudn't me. Youse can't prove nuttin'. The witnesses are all dead!"
Bensaid is the sole defendant at the appeals hearing, as his original co-defendant Smain Ait Ali Belkacem, also sentenced to life in prison, has given up his right to appeal.
"Awright, coppers! Yez got the goods on me!"
A total of 11 attacks rocked Paris in the second half of 1995, for which Algeria's Armed Islamic Group (GIA) — which is deemed a terrorist organization by Paris and Washington — claimed responsibility. At the time of their conviction last year, Bensaid and Belkacem were both already serving 10-year terms in French prisons for belonging to the GIA. A verdict in Bensaid's appeals hearing is due on November 28.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:01 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [243 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I hope they let him go. That way he can resume his job in Paris: Teaching the French about Islam. Bombs away....
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 3:38 Comments || Top||

#2  www.fuckfrance.com
Posted by: Greg || 11/05/2003 12:53 Comments || Top||

Fifth Column
Nazi beauzeau loses election
BOISE, Idaho (Reuters) - White supremacist Butler ro’Butler Richard Butler, 85, lost what may be his last political stand on Tuesday in an effort to become mayor of the small Idaho town of Hayden.
I can see why the people might not want him.
The former head of the neo-Nazi Aryan Nations, Butler never contested that Hayden, population 9,000, is a well-administered city. Yet he hoped the campaign would further his political views, which include launching a race war, separation of races, anti-immigration and anti-Semitism.
He probably didn’t SEE enough of the people.
"I’m not really anxious to become mayor," he said recently. "I’m just anxious to get my word out."
A word of horror and evil
With more than 80 percent of the votes counted, he had won just 38 votes, or two percent of the total. Incumbent Ron McIntire led by more than 90 percent of the vote.
Gee, I wonder WHY.
Butler handed over the leadership of the Aryan Nations in 2001, a year after he sold his 20-acre (8-hectare) compound to pay a $6.3 million court verdict in favor of a woman and her son attacked by Aryan Nations guards. He now lives in the town of Hayden with his supporters, who have dwindled to a handful.
Ha ha.
White supremacists have not had much luck running for office in northern Idaho. Several years ago, Butler supporter Bertollini ro’Bertollini Vincent Bertollini ran for mayor of the nearby resort town of Sandpoint and got just 30 votes.
Gee, I wonder WHY.
Far-right candidates have also had little success nationally. Former Ku Klux Klansman Duke ro’Duke David Duke may he freeze was elected to the Louisiana legislature in 1989, but he lost bids for governor, U.S. Senate and president.
Not everyone emulates Nazis, easily recognised.
Far-right groups such as the British National Party and the National Front in France have had more success in Europe.
Because Jew-hatred is more common there.
Posted by: Atrus || 11/05/2003 3:51:49 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [237 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I did a double-take when I saw the title. For a second I was wondering what former UNSCOM boss Richard Butler was doing in Idaho....
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 17:21 Comments || Top||

#2  I have a good friend that lives in Sand Point. His take of Butler is that he's a loon in a death spiral. Even the people of Hayden don't have much to do with him. At its peak, the Aryan Nation never numbered more than 200. The local people will be glad when Butler finally bites the big one, and they can erase that bit of idiocy from their town's past.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 20:44 Comments || Top||

A Careful, Reasoned Opinion....
This came from Democratic Underground by way of www.AndrewSullivan.com .
I Hope the Bloodshed Continues in Iraq
Well, that should bring the bats out of the attic with fangs dripping. I won’t be hypocritcal. It is politically correct, particularly in any Dem discussion to hope and pray and feel for our troops and scream "bring them back now". I’m fighting something bigger.

I’m a 58 year old broad and I can tell you that what is going on in our country isn’t the usual ebb and flow of politics where one party is in power and then another; where the economy goes through ups and downs.......yawn, yawn--just wait a bit and things will turn out peachy keen. That stupid la-la land is over.

I realize that not every GI Joe was 100peeercent behind Prseeedent Booosh going into this war; but I do know that that is what an overwhelming number of them and their famlies screamed in the face of protesters who were trying to protect these kids. Well, there is more than one way to be "dead" for your country. They are not only not accompishing squat in Iraq, they are doing crap nothing for the safety, defense of the US of A over there directly. But "indirectly" they are doing a lot.

The only way to get rid of this slime bag WASP-Mafia, oil barron ridden cartel of a government, this assault on Americans and anything one could laughingly call "a democracy", relies heavily on what a shit hole Iraq turns into. They need to die so that we can be free. Soldiers usually did that directly--i.e., fight those invading and harming a country. This time they need to die in defense of a lie from a lying adminstration to show these ignorant, dumb Americans that Bush is incompetent. They need to die so that Americans get rid of this deadly scum. It is obscene, Barbie Bush, how other sons (of much nobler blood) have to die to save us from your Rosemary’s Baby spawn and his ungodly cohorts.
Mr. Sullivan comments: I’m not saying this represents anything but a radical fringe. Implying that liberals or Democrats support his kind of poison is absurd. But this exists. And it’s part of what’s fueling the anger of the far left. (By the way, Democratic Underground has more traffic than this site, Instapundit, the Nation or the New Republic. It boasts over 30,000 subscribers.)

I am honestly not sure if this woman has any idea of the horrors we’ve avoided by standing up to terror. She certainly has no clue as to what happened in NYC on 9/11.

Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 11/05/2003 2:20:04 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [224 views] Top|| File under:

#1  You can be against Dubya all you want, but this is the sort of mentality that will reelect the Shrub next year.
Posted by: Hiryu || 11/05/2003 14:38 Comments || Top||

#2  I infiltrated onto demounderground about two weeks ago....holy crazy shit batman!

Some of them are just moderate-dems but some are radical socialist whackos. They blamed Bush for everything wrong in the world. Now, I'm not the biggest GWB fan but these f*ckers hate Bush more then they care about America. I.E. - They blamed him for an Iraqi girl being raped by other Iraqis in Baghdad and for her later honor killing at the hands of her own family. They said Bush was directly responsible - failing to understand how individuals are accountable for their own actions (typical ultra-lib stupidity). F*king nuts-o logic. One poster even said that at least under Saddam all the crazies were in prison and not raping the populace!!? I replied asking his view of Uday/Qusay? I said I guess they're not crazy at all w/raping virgins and torturing soccer players. In the face of logic all they could do was tell me to F*ck off. Go figure.

30,000 doesn't surprise me. They have a lot of college kids who are turned on by that crap.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 14:46 Comments || Top||

#3  If the moderate left doesn't denounce the wacky left they will have no chance in 2004.Doesn't matter if they agree or not with the wacky left, the mindset is starting to grow that the wacky left is the left.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 15:37 Comments || Top||

#4  LOL! Subscribers? Huh? If Ashcroft & Co are half as evil as these mondo-paranoid tools & our local Rantburg Doom & Gloom Dogma Site Rep, NMM, give them credit for, then they will have this subscriber list and are "...checking it twice to see who's naughty or nice..." Squirrels. I'll bet the Secret Service guys love the overtime when one like this comes in.
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 15:58 Comments || Top||

#5  If the moderate left doesn't denounce the wacky left they will have no chance in 2004.Doesn't matter if they agree or not with the wacky left, the mindset is starting to grow that the wacky left is the left.
Posted by: Yank 2003-11-5 3:37:14 PM

The "moderate" left is no more likely to denounce, or better, renounce, these nuts than "moderate" Muslims are likely to renounce Islamofascists.

It's not going to happen. The liberals may not like these guys but they don't have the spine to toss them out on their asses.

Posted by: R. McLeod || 11/05/2003 16:59 Comments || Top||

#6  Awlright, this was obviously posted by a Lucianne Goldberg wannabe! Although I do agree with the "oil barron ridden cartel" sic remark. Democratic Underground does have its crazies like this--as do right wing websites--I remember our KLAN buddy here on Rantburg the other day! But the "Top Ten Conservative Idiots" on that website is priceless--esp the little icons! See for yourself:
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 11/05/2003 17:06 Comments || Top||

#7  NMM, I can't deny that they do come up w/some funny shit on DU. I wish they'd spend as much time on their theories and arguments as they do the disparaging icons of convservatives.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/05/2003 17:40 Comments || Top||

#8  I love this stuff. This is the face of the Democratic Party. While it may not reflect anywhere near the majority opinion of the party it is becoming the image people associate with Dems. I live in the SF Bay Area, this garbage is not just fringe.

I can't wait for the demo convention next year. Puppets, lotsa dope and spittle flying. Nothing will help Bush be reelected faster.
Posted by: remote man || 11/05/2003 18:12 Comments || Top||

#9  Remote Man....

Think Big Ass Russian style Rachel Corrie icons.
Perhaps with a low chant in background.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 20:04 Comments || Top||

Clinton: NATO should run Iraq security
Former President Bill Clinton sees a bright future for Iraq, if NATO takes charge of the security operation there.
Good to see that ALL the Democrats are confident in our troops!
Speaking at a press conference with former Brazilian President Fernando Henrique Cardoso in Madrid Sunday, Clinton called for The North Atlantic Treaty Organization to call the shots on the security front under a United Nations mandate.
Bill was there to look for the girl from Iepa Nepa.
"We should revisit the question of whether the U.N. could assume responsibilities at least on paper for the security operations as well with NATO," Clinton said, according to Agence France-Presse. Clinton argued such a move would induce the international community to assume a greater role in the reconstruction of the country.
Does this guy even pay attention?
Clinton’s comments follow the recent convening of the International Donors Conference in Madrid, which was attended by 77 countries who collectively only anted up $13 billion in grants and loans to fund the rebuilding of Iraq while the U.S. has pledged $20 billion.
Umm $13 Billion ain’t chump change.
In expanding his theory, Clinton suggested U.S. troops should not be withdrawn immediately "because the Iraqi economy and security environment is not sufficiently strong." Many original opponents of the Iraq war, including France and Germany, have called for the U.N. to take over authority in Iraq immediately.
Nice to see that Clinton (either one) and the Dems have their policies aligned with Germany, France, and Russia. I wonder if we had him (and Her) fixed they would shut their pie holes? I find it particularly embarrassing that any former U.S. President feels free to spout off about a policy in a foreign country while our country is at WAR and troops are in harms way. I spit on all of them!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 11/05/2003 10:52:29 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [360 views] Top|| File under:

#1  whether the U.N. could assume responsibilities at least on paper for the security operations

How about seeing if the UN can do a better job of providing security for just their buildings in Iraq first, then re-visit the issue.

As an aside to Bill Clinton, "STFU!!!"
Posted by: snellenr || 11/05/2003 10:59 Comments || Top||

#2  How about we see if the UN can get control of the corruption and slavery rings being run out of its offices?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/05/2003 11:45 Comments || Top||

#3  Who the hell gives a rat's ass what Clinton thinks?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 11:51 Comments || Top||

#4  Can't miss you Bill if you won't go away...
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 12:10 Comments || Top||

#5  Someday, somewhere, someone will finally get through to Bill: We don't want you any more. Get out of our face. Go away, far, far away.

In the meantime, we all have to put up with this loser that caused no small part of the problem until he either hits on someone's wife once too often, or he says the wrong thing in the wrong place, and someone offs him.

Early onset Alzheimers would be a horrible thing to wish on anyone, but Bill's pushing the limits.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 12:20 Comments || Top||

#6  Maybe Clinton has been talking to Gen Jones USMC: NATO Commander Sees Proactive Missions
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 12:25 Comments || Top||

#7  I doubt that Clinton speaks to any military besides his puppet Clark
Posted by: Frank G || 11/05/2003 12:45 Comments || Top||

#8  Maybe instead of locking up Presidential papers for 60 years, we should lock up the Presidents themselves. If they can't manage to STFU, as all their predecessors (save one, anyway) did.
Posted by: mojo || 11/05/2003 12:54 Comments || Top||

#9  He brought this up at a C-Span show w/Bob Dole last week. Dole agreed that a NATO ran force w/UN as the umbrella was a good idea. In theory not a bad idea, but in practice probably not the right move right now.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 13:49 Comments || Top||

#10  Damn, someone send him to Iraq and have his convoy take a "wrong" turn.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 14:16 Comments || Top||

#11  But, when the rubber hits the road, WE are NAT0. The rest of them shmucks are worthless (not counting the Brits, of course).

See, Bill is really on our side after all. He just needs to speak in "code" as were lest Hillary smacks him up the side the head ( risking injury to Monica).

What a guy.

Posted by: Michael || 11/05/2003 15:42 Comments || Top||

#12  And who, exactly, from NATO is going to do this?

UK? Already in. France? hahahaha. Germany? hehehehe. Turkey? They said they'd help, but the Iraqis don't want them. Greece? Give me a break.
Italy? Already in.

This is pure BS from the King of BS.

Posted by: R. McLeod || 11/05/2003 16:41 Comments || Top||

#13  True Mr. McLeod... but if NATO worked thru the commiteee process and vetteed it up to the secondary FM level and then took 20% percent off the top there would be buy in. In which case.. UK already in... France Hahahaha, Germany? hehehehe, Turkey? they'd be massing forces at the border.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 16:52 Comments || Top||

#14  Can someone send him an intern or two so he will STFU!
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/05/2003 22:26 Comments || Top||

#15  But if it were NATO running the security under a UN mandate wouldn't it mean participation by France and Germany and full participation by other western Eueopean countries instead of token forces? Sounds like a good idea to me--what is the downside?
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 23:40 Comments || Top||

Bhutan at war! Student prince leaves Oxtord to fight
The prince of a tiny Himalayan kingdom quit his Oxford University degree yesterday to fight a war back home. Prince Jigyel Ugyen Wangchuck, 19, flew to Britain from Bhutan only four weeks ago to begin studying history and politics at St Peter’s College. But unknown to his father, King Jigme Singye Wangchuk, the prince signed up for the country’s militia and completed two months’ training before leaving for Oxford. Talks between Indian separatist rebels and the Bhutan government broke down this week, resulting in an outbreak of conflict and the prince’s decision to return. "Regardless of who I am, I’ve taken an oath of allegiance," he said. Bhutan is a Buddhist enclave, ruled by an absolute monarchy and surrounded by India, Tibet and Nepal. Rebels who want independence for the neighbouring Indian state of Assam have set up training camps in southern Bhutan’s forests, from where they launch attacks on India. Prince Jigyel’s brother, Jigme, left Oxford last week after completing his M Phil in politics at Magdalen College.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 7:00:14 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [238 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Everybody get f***ed tonight
Everybody Wangchuk tonight.
Posted by: BH || 11/05/2003 10:25 Comments || Top||

#2  Good start, but it's he who endures to the end who'll be saved.
Posted by: Ptah || 11/05/2003 19:30 Comments || Top||

Violent students attack ‘un-Islamic’ varsity show
Arguing that display of “obscene” material and listening to music were against the teachings of Islam, a group of enraged students on Tuesday ransacked the Department of Visual Studies of the University of Karachi, destroying musical instruments, sculptures and paintings.
Boy, are those noses blue!
They said the practices were particularly offensive in the holy month of Ramadan. The department was holding its “Degree Show 2003,” its first-ever such event, displaying projects prepared by final year students. The projects include several graphical illustrations combined with music, a documentary on eunuchs and some paintings, posters and sculptures. The show was attacked after some students declared the exhibition a “display of obscene and objectionable material” in Ramadan. Personal computers were among the other things destroyed. According to some students, playing music and bringing musical instruments inside the university was strictly prohibited in accordance with the university notification. They said if the university administration was not willing to ban such activities, it was the right of the students to stop by force any activity which was against the teachings of Islam.
"Using force is the important part, of course. The turban helps, though..."
The chairperson, of the Department of Visual Studies, Dr Duriya Qazi, denied there was a display of obscene or objectionable material on the occasion. “We hold such exhibitions and shows to attract employees and people associated with the fine arts to increase job prospects for our students.”
"Jobs? We don't need no jobs! We got turbans!"
Admitting that music was being played at the department, Dr Qazi said nobody approached her or any of the department’s other faculty members to express disapproval or reservations regarding the show. Later, a team of university officials, including the advisor on students’ affairs and campus security officer visited the Department of Visual Studies, asked details of the incident and assured teachers and students about the provision of security.
That did a lot of good, didn't it?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:02 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [228 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hmm Sounds like Giuliani against some art work in Brooklyn a while back
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 0:46 Comments || Top||

#2  "...enraged students on Tuesday ransacked the Department of Visual Studies of the University of Karachi, destroying musical instruments, sculptures and paintings."
"Hmm Sounds like Giuliani against some art work in Brooklyn a while back"
Remind us again NMM,just how much ransacking and destruction did Guiliana do? You have a strange way of comparing events.
Posted by: Gasse Katze || 11/05/2003 3:36 Comments || Top||

#3  Except Guiliani didn't trash the exhibit and destroy personal property. Also, he voiced his dislike of the works, while these students used they're fists. Interesting way of solving arguements, I must admit. I can just imagine Ted Kennedy getting hog-tied by Scott Delay with a cowboy hat!
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 3:36 Comments || Top||

#4  In NMM's limited vision of the world, there are two categories, "For me" and "Against Me". Thus, given his limited categorization skills, it's perfectly okay to lump in vandals who destroy an art exhibit with a mayor who voiced a first amendment right to verbally register opposition.

No nuance. No perception. No great skill.

No thinking.
Posted by: Ptah || 11/05/2003 5:49 Comments || Top||

#5  You gotta admit tho that NMM stays on message.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 7:38 Comments || Top||

#6  You gotta admit tho that NMM stays on message.

LOL Any other Star Wars fans out there? Now I'm always going to picture NMM as the overweight A-wing pilot sharing his cramped cockpit with chip packets and burger cartons (my mental additions, but they were always appropriate), who, being pursued by Darth Vader, is urged to "stay on target! STAY ON TARGET!", immediately before his predictable fiery demise.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 7:52 Comments || Top||

#7  You gotta admit tho that NMM stays on message.

The Democrats are nothing if not a disciplined party.

Prediction: major troll-storms across the 'net, as the Dems try their best to confuse the little matter of their plan to turn the intel oversight committee into a political playground. I base this prediction on the pattern that ANY time something looks good for Bush, or bad for the Donks, the trolls come out in force.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/05/2003 8:38 Comments || Top||

#8  Personal computers were among the other things destroyed.

Mullah Omar seems to think Pentium 4 are just fine. Must be especially offensive that during the holy month of Ramadan a PC is being used for something other than planning a terrorist attack.
Posted by: rg117 || 11/05/2003 9:00 Comments || Top||

#9  par for the course for the islam-o-nutz.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 9:53 Comments || Top||

#10  "The Democrats are nothing if not a disciplined party"

what? then we must be nothing, cause we sure as hell are NOT a disciplined party. We run all over each other and fight each other with glee, as is currently happening on the campaign trail.

The Net i think is somewhat different - a small group of activists has formed, mainly from the left fringe, who do share things and coordinate to some degree (although the conservative blog world does similar things, perhaps to a lesser degree) As far as I can tell the hawkish and more blue collar elements of the dem party, and for that matter the African americans in the dem party, are simply not very present on the web, at least not in politial debates.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/05/2003 9:56 Comments || Top||

#11  "Admitting that music was being played at the department, Dr Qazi said nobody approached her or any of the department’s other faculty members to express disapproval or reservations regarding the show."

-Play Free-bird!!
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 10:26 Comments || Top||

#12  LH, you make a good point. The Dems have seem to have been taken way too far left by some fringe elements. Some may argue the same for the GOP but I think the recent wins in Govenorships & house seats tells a different story. The average American sees people like Kucinich & Sharpton for what they are.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 10:39 Comments || Top||

#13  And I picture Bulldog as a Winston Churchill look-a-like puffing on a big cigar sitting in a gentleman's club still bemoaning the loss of India.
Ptah-- For me or against me? Reminds me of something GW said...but I'm sure irony is wasted on you
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 11/05/2003 10:47 Comments || Top||

#14  I picture Bulldog as a Winston Churchill look-a-like puffing on a big cigar sitting in a gentleman's club still bemoaning the loss of India.

Oh, how I wish that was true!

On further thought, it was a Y-Wing, and he was urging, not being urged, to "STAY ON TARGET!"
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 11:25 Comments || Top||

#15  That was Gold Five, Bulldog, and he was an old feller. When you get to be an old feller, you might get pudgy, too.

(My brother would've known that without looking it up, but I had to.)

There was also a pudgy young pilot, that I remember, but I don't think he had any lines.
Posted by: Angie Schultz || 11/05/2003 12:56 Comments || Top||

Taliban will rise again, says cleric
The Taliban will once again rule Kabul and Kandahar and God will help them defeat the United States, said Maulana Abdullah Shah Mazhar, nazim of Jamaatul Furqan, a break away faction of the Tehrik Khuddamul Islam.
It's not a banned jihadi group, y'see, 'cuz it doesn't have the same name it did when it was banned, and besides these guys are a breakaway, so even if the rest of it was banned, it still wouldn't apply to them...
“The Taliban are re-emerging and turning Afghanistan into a graveyard for American troops,” Mr Mazhar said in a speech at a Township mosque on Monday night. He said no force in the world could stop jihad because it was a command from God and obligatory for every Muslim. “Israel, America and Britain make up the axis of evil and it is their wish to suppress the Ummah. They will never be successful because the Ummah has jihad, which cannot be defeated,” said Mr Mazhar, who spent a hectic Sunday and Monday in Lahore, giving seven speeches in mosques, including Jamia Masjid Shuddha on The Mall, to drum up support and money for the Mujahideen.
Passing the turban, so to speak...
He demanded that the government release leaders of the Jamaatul Furqan who are in prison, such as Commander Abdul Jabbar. “They are not terrorists or criminals, they are just Mujahideen who would never think of going against the national interest,” he said.
"They ain't terrorists or criminals. They just like to kill people."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:02 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [225 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Don't forget they like to oppress and maime they're own people too.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 3:48 Comments || Top||

#2  nazim? What is a nazim?
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 10:23 Comments || Top||

#3  Great. Now they're going to put Taliban flag plates on their pick'em-up trucks and sing crappy songs and stage Enduring Freedom reenactments. Yeehaw!
Posted by: BH || 11/05/2003 10:33 Comments || Top||

#4  Funny how I didn't consider the South Will Rise Again but more of a Zombies rising from the grave mental image. Hard to rise from the grave when your body parts are scattered over miles of the Hindu Kush.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 11:02 Comments || Top||

#5  Taliban will rise again, says cleric

If that happens, they'll be squashed again, like the last time.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 11:53 Comments || Top||

#6  If these groups keep 'splintering' like this, pretty soon, they will each become "an army of one". Unfortunately for them, they won't quite be the same quality as those of OUR army.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 18:02 Comments || Top||

#7  If they're going to create an Islamic Whatever, the Talidinks probably will make a comeback. I can't think of anything good to say about Kharzai or Afghanistan. Now, even the wind there sucks. It probably just means there will be a much larger smoking hole in the Asian plate.
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 19:00 Comments || Top||

Arrest team in Lahore, but suspect in UK
A special team of Islamabad Police has been sent to Lahore with arrest warrants for Tehrik Islami Pakistan (TIP) Secretary General Syed Sibtain Kazmi, a suspect in Maulana Azam Tariq’s murder. However, sources say Mr Kazmi is in the UK and his family is in Islamabad.
"Nope. Sorry. Ain't seen him. Have you looked in Manchester?"
A police team raided Mr Kazmi’s Johar Town house last week and took his driver Javed into custody, releasing him after questioning. The Sipah-e-Sihaba Pakistan (SSP) leadership named the Iranian Consul General in Pakistan, chief of TIP Allama Sajid Naqvi, secretary general Sibtain Kazmi, secretary general of the outlawed Sipah-e-Muhammad Pakistan Allama Munawar Ali and ex-MNA Nawab Amanullah Khan Sial as suspects in Azam Tariq’s assassination.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:02 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [253 views] Top|| File under:

Govt to arrest four more MNAs
Following the arrest of PML-N acting President Makhdoom Javed Hashmi, the government has decided to arrest four more MNAs for treason. PML-N leader Abid Sher Ali from Faisalabad and PPP-Parliamentarian leader and MNA Fozia Wahab will be arrested in the first phase.
"Book 'em, Mahmoud! Treason One!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:02 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [249 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Meaning the MMA is the only opposition party in Pakistan who leaders aren't being arrested and imprisoned.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 11/05/2003 2:55 Comments || Top||

#2  That's one way to knock out the opposing party. Good thing for us the liberials haven't had any success with that since it's the conservatives who seem to have all the guns.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 3:30 Comments || Top||

#3  Oh... MNAs

Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 20:28 Comments || Top||

Iranian role reported in assassination
From Geostrategy-Direct
An Iranian who fled Iraq has said that Teheran was involved in the assassination of a prominent Iraqi Shiite cleric, Ayatollah Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim in Najaf. The Iranian informant told the Arabic newspaper Al Sharq Al Awsat that the Al Quds Corps of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps was involved in the operation. However, the informant said that the top official of the Iranian government, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, was not aware of the Iranian role.

Al Hakim and some 100 of his supporters were killed by a car bomb Aug. 29. He was chairman of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq and was viewed as pro-American by the Iranians. According to the newspaper, a member of the assassination team contacted Amir Farshad Ibrahimi, a former Iranian Quds member who had been trained in Lebanon and Sudan with the help of Egyptian Al Qaida leader Ayman al Zawahiri. The informant, identified only as Amir, reported by email that he needed help in fleeing Iran after three Quds members involved in the Hakim assassination died suspiciously in traffic accidents.

The informant was able to flee to Eastern Europe where he is waiting to see if he can obtain asylum from Iraq or an Arab country. The informant said he has information about other Iranian-linked bombings, including the United Nations center, the Jordanian embassy and a Baghdad hotel. "We were 10 and all from the team of liquidation whose members underwent difficult training in Iran, Lebanon, and Sudan," the informant stated. "We took a military, security and ideological training course in a camp close to the border with Iraq before we left. We thought before entering Iraq that our task was to kill Paul Bremer, the U.S. civilian ruler of Iraq. But an official in Al-Quds Corps came to the camp before we left for Iraq and spoke about Al-Hakim’s betrayal and surrender to the Americans. "The official’s talk at first surprised us but he showed us evidence and photographs that revealed the close ties that Ayatollah Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim and his brother Abd-al-Aziz, member of the Governing Council, had with Bremer and US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld."

The Iranians targeted Al Hakim after he had backed down from supporting an Islamic republic in Iraq. The 10 Iranian Quds members posed as radio and television correspondents, saying they wanted to do a film on his life. Al-Hakim welcomed them and allowed them to stay with him five days before the car bombing. The informant said that Iran has sent some 30 cells of IRGC intelligence and paramilitary forces to Najaf, Baghdad, Karbala, Al Kufah and Basra. The assassins used a car packed with 1,000 kilos of high explosives and triggered by a remote control detonator. A second vehicle, packed with 300 kilograms of Semtex plastic explosive, was planted behind the first car bomb and detonated by the driver as Al Hakim left a mosque after Friday prayers. "We filmed the funeral of what was left of Al-Hakim’s body and then returned to Iran as if nothing had happened," the informant said. "But the team members started to become victims of traffic incidents one after the other and this prompted me to search for a way to flee Iran before I join my colleagues in their graves."
I would like to see some verification of this claim, but it would be good if it were verified as true. Another nail in the coffins of the black turbanned neighbors. The other team members having fatal traffic accidents one after another was a nice touch.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/05/2003 8:38:33 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [781 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Very interesting, if true.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 11/05/2003 22:07 Comments || Top||

#2  I don't see what GWB is waiting for. Those Iranian mullahs have to GO.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 23:36 Comments || Top||

If it runs like a duck, and shivers like a duck...
A soldier with Fort Carson’s 10th Special Forces Group has been charged with cowardice for allegedly refusing to do his duty in Iraq. Staff Sgt. Georg Pogany, 32, a Special Forces interrogator, is charged with showing “cowardly conduct as a result of fear, in that he refused to perform his duties,” according to his charge sheet. If convicted in a court-martial, the soldier faces prison time and a dishonorable discharge. He was charged Oct. 14. His first court appearance is Nov. 7 at Fort Carson.

A cowardice charge is extremely rare, military law experts say. Army officials couldn’t say Wednesday the last time it had been filed. Pogany said he is wrongly charged. The soldier said he experienced a “panic attack” after seeing the mangled body of an Iraqi man and told his superior he was heading for a “nervous breakdown.” After that, Pogany said he didn’t request to go on missions nor did the unit ask him to go. Pogany said he asked for help but was denied the care soldiers with “combat stress” are supposed to receive. Instead of help, Pogany said, one of his superiors told him to “get his head out of his ass and get with the program.”

An Army psychologist in Iraq said Pogany had a normal reaction to seeing the body and recommended rest and then a return to duty, the soldier said. Instead, his commander ordered him back to Colorado Springs to face a court-martial for “misbehavior before the enemy.” Pogany said he returned to the 10th Group after he was examined, was ignored for more than a day and then told he was being sent home to face charges. The soldier said he had asked three times to stay in Iraq and work through his problem.
Too little, too late.

Not knowing the details, I don't know if it was a panic attack or if he flat lost his nerve forever and ever. The sight of mangled meat that used to be somebody can have a pretty visceral effect on a person, though, and the effect isn't always predictable. The panic attack can be brought on by something as subtle as the expression on the corpse's face. Especially the young ones...
Posted by: Rawsnacks || 11/05/2003 8:08:29 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [357 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sorry - thanks Drudge.
Posted by: Rawsnacks || 11/05/2003 20:11 Comments || Top||

#2  Yeah support our troops--then treat them like SHIT
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/06/2003 0:12 Comments || Top||

Ahhhhhhhhh.... nothing like good intelligence
US forces said Wednesday they have discovered an important arms cache during a raid on hideouts suspected of serving as a base to attack coalition forces north of Baghdad. "Task Force Ironhorse soldiers conducted a raid at a location near al-Hadid, believed to be a safe house for people suspected of involvement in mortar attacks against forward operating base Warhorse," said a coalition statement. "The residence was searched and an important weapons cache was located and confiscated." The statement said "the cache included: 33 blocks of dangerous explosives, 98 feet of detonation cord, 20 blasting caps, and abundant volatile munitions used in improvised explosive devices."

"The soldiers also discovered "two rifles, eight fragmentation grenades, a machinegun, one rocket-propelled grenade launcher, 300 rounds of 7.62 millimeter ammunition, three rounds of 14.5 millimeter anti-aircraft ammunition, five AK-47 ammunition magazines, and one ammunition drum for a machinegun."
Posted by: rawsnacks || 11/05/2003 3:09:30 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [222 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "No one was detained as a result of the raid but a terrain model of both forward operating base Warhorse and Scunion, found in the building, indicated that the raided location had been for planning attacks against coalition forces," it said.

If they're building terrain models, that suggests a higher level of military training, most likely ex-Iraqi army officer.
Posted by: Steve || 11/05/2003 15:49 Comments || Top||

#2  Kinda a lousy weapons cache: two rifles and 8 grenades.

Sure, its good to get them off the street and out of the hands of evil-doers, but I'm not exactly sure why this little amount is news.
Posted by: RussSchultz || 11/05/2003 16:17 Comments || Top||

#3  Because it's Elk Season in Iraq!
Posted by: Raj || 11/05/2003 16:18 Comments || Top||

#4  jeesh...russ, did you miss the rest of the stuff listed? I say good work to those who found it!
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 16:25 Comments || Top||

#5  "And the lucky winner of an all-expenses-paid trip to Gitmo is..." [insert drum-roll and name of homeowner / resident here]... Replacing a stash like this won't be easy. Hat-tip to the informant. Cool. Slowly, but surely.

Those be some mighty big elk, Raj!
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 16:29 Comments || Top||

#6  They should have set up a trap, and rigged the thing to blow sky-high when the owners returned to get their stuff.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 17:25 Comments || Top||

#7  Can you imagine soldiers' reactions on getting their deployment orders to the named forward operating bases ?

"Awright, lissen up, you guys over there are assigned to Warhorse!"

Troops: HOO-RAH !

"...and youse guys over there are assigned to Scunion !"

Troops: Aw, crap.
Posted by: Carl in N.H. || 11/05/2003 17:50 Comments || Top||

#8  "two rifles, eight fragmentation grenades, a machinegun, one rocket-propelled grenade launcher, 300 rounds of 7.62 millimeter ammunition, three rounds of 14.5 millimeter anti-aircraft ammunition, five AK-47 ammunition magazines, and one ammunition drum for a machinegun."

Tis the season... get your parodies ready.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 20:30 Comments || Top||

#9  Are scunions like Funions?
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 20:43 Comments || Top||

#10  "...get your parodies ready."

On the first day of Ramadan
my Mullah gave to meeee...
a 'sploding belt for a jihad-ee.

On the second day of Ramadan
my Mullah gave to meeee...
an AK-47,
and a 'sploding belt for a jihad-ee

On the third day of Ramadan
my Mullah gave to meeee...
three cassettes of sermons,
an AK-47,
and a 'sploding belt for a jihad-ee...

OK, guys, more verses? And remember, Ramadan lasts a WHOLE MONTH! ;->
Posted by: Old Grouch || 11/05/2003 21:05 Comments || Top||

#11  Points to anyone that can put abundant volatile munitions in verse...
Posted by: Rawsnacks || 11/05/2003 21:49 Comments || Top||

#12  Raw, check this out......

On the fifth day of Ramadan
my Mullah gave to meeee...
five abundant volatile munitions,
four crates of demolitions,
three cassettes of sermons,
an AK-47,
and a 'sploding belt for a jihad-ee...
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 22:08 Comments || Top||

#13  Jarhead - You freaking win.
Posted by: Rawsnacks || 11/05/2003 22:31 Comments || Top||

Zeyad Speaks about Demonstrations.
From HealingIraq - EFL:
First, I have to explain to some western idealists that public demonstrations is an alien idea to the majority of Iraqis. We have been forced to demonstrate in favour of Saddam, the Ba’ath, Palestine, and Arab nationalism for 3 decades. Just to give you an idea on how that was like for us; party members would surround colleges, schools, and govt. offices. They block all outlets and shove people into buses which head to wherever the demonstrations are to be held. You simply cannot refuse to demonstrate. I remember hiding in the toilet back in high school whenever the buses came into the park to herd us to the demos. It wasn’t a pleasant experience I can tell you. Once I got stuck and had to shout anti-imperialist slogans at one of these rallies just two years ago. You don’t have the slightest idea of what it is like to live your life daily in fear.

Now today, we are facing terrorist and violent threats against our nurseries, schools, colleges, hospitals, clinics, oil pipelines, power stations, water purification systems, and other civilian facilities. If you think that a peaceful demonstration would deter those criminals from doing harm to us, then you are 100% wrong. Do you think the Syrians/Saudis/Iranians/Yemenis/Sudanese would simply say ’Oh look, the Iraqis don’t want us there, lets go home and leave the Americans and Iraqis work it out’? Or if you think we should go out and face the dangers just to prove to you -paranoid Americans sitting in your ivory towers watching tv- that we do not support the terrorists, then you are wrong again.

You see a handful of teenagers dancing in front of the camera celebrating dead Americans, and you judge an entire people, you start whining about pulling the troops out of Iraq and giving the Iraqis what they deserve. Are you people really so close-minded? It is the fault of your news agencies that show you what they want, its certainly not ours. If you want us to go out and cry for your dead soldiers and wave American flags, then don’t count on it either. We are losing way too many innocent Iraqis daily to be grieving over dead soldiers who have actually made a decision to come here. What about the thousands of dead Iraqis who were not as lucky to have a choice? Did you cry for them?

According to a poll by an Iraqi agency, only 3% of Iraqis want Saddam back and less than 40% want the Americans to leave immediately. Did you even hear about these results?

If you think that Iraqis aren’t doing enough, then you’re being mislead by your media. Thousands of people are applying to be members of IP, FPS, and the civil defense force. They are begging for the security to be in their hands. We know how to handle those scum. The Americans are more interested in being nice and all about human rights and free speech and stuff. We have our own Law and court systems which we can use but the CPA won’t allow us to. They are being too lenient and forgiving on our expence. If you think that is what is required to build a successful democracy then you’re too deluded. You don’t know the first thing about the Iraqi society.

Iraqis are providing intelligence to the CPA hourly. Just ask the soldiers here. Iraqis are cooperating in every way they can. They’re losing their lives for it goddammit. If you aren’t seeing it on tv, it isn’t my fucking problem.
Harsh words but they need to be heard.....
Posted by: mercutio || 11/05/2003 2:58:37 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [229 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Kick-ass. Obviously, his heart is truly in each and every word and he's pointed in the right direction. He's dead right about Americans who still get their daily dose of pablum / bullshit / soma from the major "news" outlets, too. Not only should the coalition find a way to air this man's thoughts to other Iraqis, he would do a world of good if he was heard by all Americans.

Dubya should be quoting this guy in every speech and citing his URL - he's simply the most eloquent and intelligent voice coming out of Iraq today.

As for his anger at us doing it in our own way, I certainly get it - given how personal and painful his world is at this moment, it's almost impossible to imagine him saying otherwise. This guy just drips class - he'll rise above his anger and pain someday soon, I'd bet. If there's any hope for Iraq / Arabia - guys like this need to be allowed an opportunity to be heard and chosen by his peers to lead them out of their phantasy worlds.

My 2nd favorite blog site. ;-)
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 16:48 Comments || Top||

#2  I like to see more Iraqis involved in security as long as we don't set up a system where peaceful demonstrations are surpressed by the new governemtn using the same tool that we created to protect freedom.

Loved the hiding in the bathroom to avoid demonstrating. Zeyed is a classic.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 20:47 Comments || Top||

#3  --The Americans are more interested in being nice and all about human rights and free speech and stuff.--

As another blogger pointed out, he doesn't understand that these things ARE necessary to build a democracy.
Posted by: Anonymous-not above || 11/05/2003 22:19 Comments || Top||

#4  If any Iraqi will get there, Zayed will. And he'll get there by a much more difficult road than we had - being taught fair-play in almost everything we did. He's never even seen it before, except maybe on the soccer pitch - and that's a big maybe. But he'll figure it out for himself - and it'll be the genuine article.
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 22:38 Comments || Top||

Mystery M1A1 Tank Killer
This post was also treated yesterday

According to an unclassified Army report, the mystery projectile punched through the vehicle’s skirt and drilled a pencil-sized hole through the hull. The hole was so small that “my little finger will not go into it,” the report’s author noted.

The “something” continued into the crew compartment, where it passed through the gunner’s seatback, grazed the kidney area of the gunner’s flak jacket and finally came to rest after boring a hole 1Âœ to 2 inches deep in the hull on the far side of the tank.

The mystery projectile has been revealed as a special developed Russian bullet useable with Kalasnikov riffles or Dragunov sniper guns. The Bernaul ammunition factory in Siberia/Russia produces two types of the armor penetrating bullet typed 7N22 and 7N23 (size 5.45 and 7.62) consisting of an alloy of carbon saturated Russian standards U12A steel. During tests the bullet penetrated easily 16mm of armor.
Posted by: Murat || 11/05/2003 6:37:43 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [344 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The mystery projectile has been revealed as a special developed Russian bullet useable with Kalasnikov riffles...

Suuuuuuuure, Murat! I hope the Jihadi's don't learn that walking up to and firing their AK "special bullets" right into the sides of M1s will make them all tank-killers. The results are simply too funny horrifying to contemplate. You gotta link to your Siberian Steel Superbullet theory?

P.S. A 16 mm armour-piercing capability was obsolete by 1939.

This post was also treated yesterday

...and the day before. It's still a mystery.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 6:54 Comments || Top||

#2  Hi Bulldog,

Well I am not the bullet specialist, US army weapon specialists revealed that, I guess some "jihadi's" between US army specialists if you like to put it that way.
Posted by: Murat || 11/05/2003 7:11 Comments || Top||

#3  Murat, why doesn't the story you linked to support your claims?

At this time, it appears most likely that an RPG-22 or some other improved variant of the Russian-designed weapon damaged the M1 tank, sources concluded.

No mention of a magic bullet, asshat.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/05/2003 7:27 Comments || Top||

#4  Bulldog,

Armor penetrating bullets are nothing new, 10mm penetrating bullets are common known: armor penetration

The Russians developed one which can penetrate heavier armor, the mistery is how did the Iraqi's acquire these.
Posted by: Murat || 11/05/2003 8:09 Comments || Top||

#5  So Murat...
You're telling me that some rabidly anti-American jihadi, armed with top secret, super-powerful, russian-made, armor-piercing rounds in his fully-automatic AK, ran up on a huge 68 ton M1A1 tank full of infidels... AND THEN ONLY PINCHED OFF ONE ROUND?
Posted by: ---------<<<<-- || 11/05/2003 8:35 Comments || Top||

#6  Uh, Murat, Bulldog wasn't disputing the existence of AP rounds. In fact, if you had bothered to read what he wrote, you'd have noticed that he called 16mm penetration "pre-WWII". In that light, a 10mm penetration is as exciting as Riyadh on a Friday night.

You still haven't bothered to source your claim.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/05/2003 8:38 Comments || Top||

#7  Murat, when they refer to an armor penetration bullets they generally mean body armor, in the modern context, not Tank Armor. You really will believe anything won't you.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 8:57 Comments || Top||

#8  16m is not tank armor!
Posted by: Raptor || 11/05/2003 9:10 Comments || Top||

#9  Bulldog, Armor penetrating bullets are nothing new...

Well, you don't say! Murat, what we're discussing here are anti-tank rifles or rifles with anti-tank capability. 16 mm is adequate to penetrate lightly armoured vehicles, e.g. the aluminium-bodied M113 APC, but totally incapable of penetrating the chobham armour of an M1A1.

Infantry anti-tank rifles themselves were considered out of date by the end of WWII, and there is simply no way that a puny little AK47, or even a sniper rifle, could have penetrated this M1A1.

Get. A. Clue.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 9:10 Comments || Top||

#10  the mistery is how did the Iraqi's acquire these.

Why would that be a mystery? They are Russian.
Posted by: Jack is Back! || 11/05/2003 9:27 Comments || Top||

#11  Bulldog,

As said before I am not a bullet specialist, the bullet theory is from American weapon specialists who declare the 7N22 and 7N23 bullets are capable of penetrating 16mm armor shields like butter. I have also no idea about the armor thikness of the M1A1.

Who knows the hull thikness of the M1A1?
Posted by: Murat || 11/05/2003 9:36 Comments || Top||

#12  Who knows the hull thikness of the M1A1?

Er, that's classified, Murat. Type of armour is more important than mere thickness nowadays, anyhow. But as a general idea of how clueless you are, even the relatively underprotected WWII era Sherman M4 had frontal armor of 85 mm.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 10:05 Comments || Top||

#13  Maybe it was an African Swallow that shot the Armor Piercing Coconut
Posted by: R.A. Myers || 11/05/2003 10:08 Comments || Top||

#14  the bullet theory is from American weapon specialists

Where does this claim come from, Murat? You have never cited a source for this. The story you linked to doesn't mention it.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/05/2003 10:10 Comments || Top||

#15  I have no internet links, but the bullet theory is from a report of Terry Hughes, the tank specialist who is investigating the mystery missile.

Some pictures of the M1A1 and the mystery hole of the African Swallow:

Posted by: Murat || 11/05/2003 10:29 Comments || Top||

#16  OK, you've given a name. Now, where did you hear or read this?

God, it really shouldn't be this hard. You claim to be literate.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/05/2003 10:47 Comments || Top||

#17  Looks like...jihadi termites to me.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 10:50 Comments || Top||

#18  Here's a link to 1 explaination on StrategyPage.com I posted this a few days ago from the same site.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 11/05/2003 10:54 Comments || Top||

#19  When the dust settles we'll probably find out an A-10 miles away pinched of a single round by accident and got a very lucky hit. Something innocent and improbably like that.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 11:01 Comments || Top||

#20  One tank is disabled and all of a sudden tank-killers are on the loose? When several more are disabled in the same manner then the matter will probably warrant some sort of detailed investigation. Until then, there's going to be little change, other than probably being quite a bit more vigilant.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 11:14 Comments || Top||

#21  Here is a link to information on the Abrams from Global Security. It might help the discussion.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 11:24 Comments || Top||

#22  Murat-
I never had much experience with RPGs - and this is almost certainly what it is - but I have done work with the following:

*GAU-8 Cannon and associated ammunition, maintenance, inspection and testing (6 years)
*AGM-65 Maverick, all current models from 1984 to 1998, maintenance, inspection and testing
*TOW 2A and 2B, inspection, maintenance, testing (1995)
*Launch/firing experience with LAW, AT series, ex-Soviet RPG (1984-95)

I think I can reasonably say I've got some experience in dealing with armor-piercing weapons.

First of all, no - let me repeat that - NO 5.45 or 7.62 round is going to penetrate the composite armor (also known as Chobham armor)on an M1A1. No hand carried, shoulder fired rifle can ever muster the sheer muzzle velocity required, and even if it were possible, the round itself would never survive the impact. 'Armor piercing' yes, as in body armor or Kevlar or light steel armor. M1 level composite - no. Now, let's take a look at what it MIGHT be.
First of all, you're dealing with a fairly soft penetrator here, ('soft' being a purely relative term) because it doesn't look to have exited the crew compartment. It wasn't a DU penetrator - they burn on impact. In order to stay intact long enough to get into the crew compartment, it had to be about 8" long, which lets out anything fired from a gun smaller than a tank's main weapon - and there is no mention of any enemy tanks in the area. (A 30mm round from an A-10 is only about 4" long, but remember that it isn't that first round that kills you - it's the hundreth or so, the one that comes through the hole the first 99 have gouged out.)
A LARGE ATGW (TOW, any of the Soviet/CIS AT series, for example) is also probably out because of the cramped quarters the fighting was being done in - for best performance, you really need a couple hundred open yards minimum, and enough room for the fuzes to arm properly.
Now, one characteristic of an AP penetrator is that it causes 'spalling' - the creation of fragments from the wall of the crew compartment at the point where it enters. You can see some fairly mild spalling in the one picture, but compared to what you get from a large missile or tank-fired penetrator, it is close to non-existent. In addition, the larger missiles have either shaped charge warheads (which rely on the creation of an extremely hot jet of gas) or a penetrator (a BIG one - much larger in diameter and length than what hit this tank and causing FAR more damage), or a combination of the two. None of the signs of a large missile or tank fired penetrator round are visible here at all. All of the above leads me to believe that we are looking at a man-portable RPG of some kind.
Now, what did the Iraqis have access to? Well, the RPG-7,-18,-22, and -75 are candidates, as well as the Yugoslav RBR series and various Chinese mods of the above. Without having a chance to see where the engagement occurred, as well as the circumstances surrounding it, there's no way to tell for sure. But it seems most reasonable to me that somebody with a fairly modern and up-to-date AT weapon made a quick dash against a lone tank or the last tank in a column, got in close, fired, and did his thing. You'll notice that the tank appears to have made it home, and there's no mention of a mobility or systems kill.
Is there something to be concerned about? Yes. Is the M1 doomed? Nope. If somebody determines that there is a realistic threat from these things, we can have a fix in place right quickly - and that assumes the guys in the field don't think of one first.

Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 11/05/2003 12:24 Comments || Top||

#23  Mike Kozlowski, wonderful post but you need to slow down on the abbreviations. I know RPG means Role Playing Game, AP is Associated Press, and DU is Democratic Underground but a few o fthe others lost me. ;^)
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 12:59 Comments || Top||

#24  Yank,
My apologies - I kinda went into lecture mode on that one. Thanks for being understanding about it. :)

Best regards,
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 11/05/2003 14:09 Comments || Top||

#25  Murat you really should look at your sources before posting crap like that. The side armor on an M1 Abrams (not the later A2 which is modified even more) is about 10 CM sloped. Effectively this is equivalent to 20 cm when sloped at about 30 degrees. You're bullet would have buried itself probably in the skirt but no further.
Posted by: Valentine || 11/05/2003 14:32 Comments || Top||

#26  Oh as an aside, hull/armor thickness isn't classified on the earlier M1 tanks, it's the COMPOSITION of the armor thats classified ;)
Posted by: Valentine || 11/05/2003 14:34 Comments || Top||

#27  There can't be another site on the internet where someone can post an article like this and have it explained the way MK just did. I'm impressed.
Posted by: Matt || 11/05/2003 14:34 Comments || Top||

#28  Damn--nice post, Mike! Gotta love the varied backgrounds and insights of Rantburgers.
Posted by: Dar || 11/05/2003 14:39 Comments || Top||

#29  Mike, you just tore Murat to shreds. Nice work.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 14:52 Comments || Top||

#30  I still say it was some sort of laser, Saddam's secret weapon, perhaps? disclaimer: I am not being serious
Posted by: Rafael || 11/05/2003 15:15 Comments || Top||

#31  From StrategyPage:

November 5, 2003: The "Mystery Projectile" that caused the penetration of an M-1 tanks side armor was probably a Russian RPG-7V or similar type. This is an improved version with wave shaper in the HEAT warhead. The pictures (see here) of the penetration show classic HEAT warhead circular flash and light material splash (aluminum or similar from outer warhead casing) in a roughly circular area and at between 500 - 800 mm radius around the penetration hole. It also seems as if the entry hole on the skirt plate has a ragged and enlarged hole. This is consistent with wave shaped warheads that do not have optimal performance at point of impact as the jet is still being focused. In pictures 2-5 there is virtually no spalling around the inside exit hole and immediately adjacent interior equipment. Only items directly in penetration path has been punctured or splashed with molten copper (see gun guard picture). It appears as if the jet was disrupted and started deflagrating by interior components spaced effect and material compositions. The last picture shows residual heat discoloration on the switch box, which is typical of molten metal heat transfer and short-circuit effects as can be expected when you send conductive liquid or particles into an electrical box.

The damage done is similar in appearance to that done to other armored vehicles that have been penetrated by an RPG-7. In this case, the round hit one of the few areas on the side of the tank that was vulnerable to penetration by an RPG round.

If correct, it sounds like a lucky hit, but the procurement folks should be looking at those "few areas vunerable to penetration by an RPG"
Posted by: Mercutio || 11/05/2003 15:46 Comments || Top||

#32  Great post Mike.
Would it be possible for 14mm anti-aircraft gun to inflict such damage?
Posted by: Gasse Katze || 11/05/2003 15:48 Comments || Top||

#33  Looking at the pictures, you can see the splatter of molten metal. A hardened penetrator would have punched a hole in the outer hull, and then bounced around inside the tank. This was a shaped charge, a very focused narrow jet of hot metal.
Posted by: Steve || 11/05/2003 15:55 Comments || Top||

#34  Guys, take a look at where the round hit again. Can anybody guarantee that where the turrent/body come together has all this special armor? I have noticed that Russian tanks use a smaller turrent that has a skirt that protects the joint. The Abrams has that huge turrent and it looks like about 2-3 inches of the joint are exposed. This round hit EXACTLY at that joint and I bet you there is no REACTIVE armor at that point. This is why it may not be out of the question this was a sniper round since it had to be so accuratly placed.
Posted by: Patrick || 11/05/2003 16:16 Comments || Top||

#35  Found some more info on RPG-7V rounds at the manufacturer's website -- in particular, they talk about:

In 1988 the State Research and Production Enterprise "Bazalt" was the first in Russian and the world practice to solve the problem of creating antitank grenade launcher rounds capable of engaging combined (composite), screened and explosive reactive armor protection through the development of a radically new tandem warhead and a new PG-7VR round comprising this type of WH for firing from the RPG-7V grenade launcher. So far the PG-7VR does not have analogs in the world.

The warhead looks like it's got two charges -- one to defeat the armor, the second to do the dirty work.
Posted by: snellenr || 11/05/2003 17:35 Comments || Top||

#36  Guess the Russians decided to test-fire their new AntiTank Weapon (ATW) against an Abrams in Iraq. It also looks like Iraq only got a very FEW of these weapons, since no other attacks of this nature took place. It also looks pretty darned convincing that the weapons transfer took place AFTER the 1991 war and the subsequent arms embargo, OR it was a Russian military specialist that actually fired the round. Either way, Russia has some 'splaining to do. I'd have Vlad's shorts in the wringer PDQ if I were GWB (how's that for acronyms???).
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 18:19 Comments || Top||

#37  Bet it was the Ghost Dancer Magic Bullet. The lucky jihadi was probably wearing a special white blouse and had stayed up all night.....
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 20:35 Comments || Top||

#38  ..Thanks to all for your kind comments. Gasse Katze, I don't think an AA weapon could quite muster the oomph to get through steel armor, and definitely not the Chobham composite - again, even if it did, the round probably wouldn't survive.
Steve, I'm going to respectfully disagree and stick with my original call of a penetrator - though I will more than happily admit to error were it to come down to it. Some years ago, I had a chance to climb inside a T-72 that had been hit by a penetrator round fired from another tank (and you guys would never believe where this T-72 was when I saw it*S*) and the damage was very nearly identical. Also, the pic over at Strategy Page doesn't seem to show the scorching and deformation that I'd associate with a shaped charge hit. OTOH, the shaped charges I'm used to dealing with are pretty good sized - far larger than anything man-portable would be equipped with - so again, it's possible that there's something out there we haven't seen or aren't familiar with, or a variation on an old familiar - or an old favorite where the guy got a lucky shot.

Best regards,
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 11/05/2003 23:29 Comments || Top||

Terror Networks
Orson Scott Card on the War on Terror
I wasn’t entirely sure which category to place this in, so my apologies if I screwed up.

Below is a tiny bit from OSC’s latest take on things. The whole thing is worth a read.
And I fear that the only thing that will cure the Muslim people of their current love affair with terrorism (for even though the terrorists are few, those who openly sympathize with their barbarities are many and their critics are virtually silent) is the savagery of total war.

The only alternative is the kind of limited, surgical war that America has been waging in Afghanistan and Iraq. The cost of such a war is not trivial, but it is also not total.

But if America and Britain lose heart and do not complete this kind of war, the terrorists will regard our retreat as proof that they were right and Allah supports their actions. More terrorism will surely follow, and the war we failed to complete now our children will have to complete later -- and under far less advantageous circumstances.
Posted by: ccwbass || 11/05/2003 11:36:12 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [240 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Orson Scott Card is one of those rare people who is willing to harshly criticize his own beliefs (see the epilogue to Children of the Mind). With that in mind, I'd have to say it's highly probable that his assessment is dead-on.
Posted by: Dishman || 11/05/2003 12:47 Comments || Top||

#2  I think this is the guy who wrote "Ender's Game", if so it was required reading for us Marines in Quantico. Pretty good book.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 13:43 Comments || Top||

#3  Good article - I had never looked past the communist revolutions to see the anarchists. There are some uncanny simularities, but I think Card goes too far in discounting the amount of terror that alone anarchist can cause. The Beltway Snipers, the Unabomber and the Anthrax Mailer all damaged some sizeable chunks of economy (not the Unabomber really.) A lot of the hackers and virus producers have also caused considerable chaos.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 13:46 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Zell gives ’em hell! Georgia Democrat calls leaked memo "first cousin" of treason
WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Zell Miller (D-GA) today released the following statement concerning a memo written by Democratic staff on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence that suggests ways to politicize intelligence data:

“I have often said that the process in Washington is so politicized and polarized that it can’t even be put aside when we’re at war. Never has that been proved more true than the highly partisan and perhaps treasonous memo prepared for the Democrats on the Intelligence Committee.

“Of all the committees, this is the one single committee that should unquestionably be above partisan politics. The information it deals with should never, never be distorted, compromised or politicized in any shape, form or fashion. For it involves the lives of our soldiers and our citizens. Its actions should always be above reproach; its words never politicized.

“If what has happened here is not treason, it is its first cousin. The ones responsible - be they staff or elected or both should be dealt with quickly and severely sending a lesson to all that this kind of action will not be tolerated, ignored or excused.

“Heads should roll!”

Senator Miller is an American first, and a partisan second. Sadly, many of the other Democrats in Washington have that exactly backward.
Posted by: Mike || 11/05/2003 6:24:43 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [400 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Scum. Fucking scum! I've been proudly registered Independant all my voting life, and tend to chaulk up most of the political stupidity that happens to silly partisan jibberish, which in the end doesn't do too much real damage, and usually amounts to a decent, off setting, sum total for all.

But THESE assholes? They go to far. To predetermine, no matter what the outcome of reality, that they are going to attack a sitting president in a time of war with young americans fighting and dying...

Fuck them. Hang them! I'm calling it treason! And by "hanging" I don't mean ending their career, or embarrassing them or slapping them on the wrist. I'm saying put the rope on their neck and pull the fucking lever.
Posted by: Hyper || 11/05/2003 19:18 Comments || Top||

#2  Hyper, welcome to the 'conspiracy' enjoy the show! Of course the Dems will find some college intern (Bill will help) to 'take one for the team.'
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 11/05/2003 19:45 Comments || Top||

#3  Don't ya just hate these Southron Populists NMM?

Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 20:07 Comments || Top||

#4  Too bad this was posted so late in the day.
I think this thread will get interesting.
Posted by: Gasse Katze || 11/05/2003 21:11 Comments || Top||

#5  Zell takes away the united front in the dem's hope to stall the fallout - watching Alan Colmes try to pin this on a low-level staffer. Someone gave this to Hannity, so obviously there are patriots still on the Dem side. The rest can kiss my a**. Hannity is taunting Corzine to put him under oath - he says he'll go to jail before identifying the source.....dumbest thing the Dems could do is call Hannity on this heh heh
Posted by: Frank G || 11/05/2003 21:38 Comments || Top||

#6  Zell Miller boll Weevil democrat Repooplican/Cracker state is the Democrat's Jeffords--no big surprise here. Cries of partisanship from the GOP are amusing to say the least when one considers how they march like automatons to Mr DeLay's whip cracking
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 23:46 Comments || Top||

#7  NMM: the soccer mom of politics. Even when the call is flat-out obvious, he still jumps to his feet and blames everyone but the one who did wrong.
Posted by: B || 11/06/2003 7:53 Comments || Top||

#8  To YOU_ARE_MIKE_MOORE: you are a hypocritical maroon. It is difficult to imagine the psyche ofsomeone who would condone soldiers dying in battle to further your political gain.

Posted by: alaskasoldier || 11/06/2003 12:32 Comments || Top||

Africa: East
Mogadishu Warlords Help Americans Hunt for Terrorists
Sounds like we’ve gotten rid of that "can’t work with scumbags" notion. EFL:
In lawless Mogadishu, where U.S. officials fear al-Qaida members are plotting their next attack, the word is out: catch a terrorist, collect rewards as high as $5 million. At least four al-Qaida terrorist suspects are in Somalia, Kenyan officials and U.N. experts say, and Americans are trying to capture them in a country without an effective central government for more than a decade, officials and gunmen told The Associated Press. So far, those efforts are known to have netted at least one al-Qaida suspect - Suleiman Abdalla Salim Hemed, who’s accused of playing a role in the 1998 U.S. Embassy bombings in Africa - but rumors abound of gunmen kidnapping Arabs and turning them over to U.S. agents. A Somali warlord, Mohammed Dheere, coordinated the capture of Hemed at the behest of U.S. officials, gunmen familiar with the Hemed operation told AP, speaking privately for fear of reprisals. Most Somalis believe Dheere was generously rewarded. Kenya’s national security minister, Chris Murungaru, claimed credit for Hemed’s capture and said he was turned over to U.S. authorities, who have refused to comment.

But the gunmen said U.S. agents regularly visit Dheere at his Mogadishu home and an AP reporter saw two of the alleged agents, dressed in regular clothing, moving through Mogadishu using a team of bodyguards belonging to Bashir Rageh, a wealthy businessman closely associated with Dheere. After Hemed’s capture, Dheere questioned Hemed’s friends for hours, asking about other suspected terrorists. When shown photos from the FBI’s Most Wanted Terrorists Web site, Hemed’s friends said Dheere used the same photos when he questioned them. They said they didn’t recognize any of the men in the photos. One of the most-wanted al-Qaida suspects, Fazul Abdullah Mohammed, is thought to be hiding in Somalia, a senior Kenyan security official told AP on Wednesday. Somalia, a semiarid country, offers an attractive location for covert operations, but the country is nothing like Afghanistan, where al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden’s Islamic militants were welcomed and worked unhindered, establishing large training camps. Somalia’s clan-based society is deeply Islamic, but the vast majority of Somalis follow Sufism, which is vehemently opposed to al-Qaida’s militant, politically infused interpretation of Islam.
The Sunnis and the Shiites both hate the Sufi’s.
As a result, the warlords who run the country, drawing support and gunmen from their clans, are decidedly secular in their politics.
"It’s nothing personal, Abdulla. Just business."
While German reconnaissance planes and German and U.S. warships patrol the coastline, U.S. officials have tried to get a presence on the ground by capitalizing on the warlords’ lack of religious zeal and need for cash.
Money talks, and we have the money.
And while most Somalis reject Islamic extremism, there are militants in Somalia. Al-Ittihad al-Islami, listed by the United States as a terrorist group linked to al-Qaida, does openly operate as a religious organization, though its members publicly renounce violence.
Yeah, I know. R.O.P.
Abdiqasim Hassan Salad, who led a failed transitional government and is attempting to form a new one, said small numbers of terrorists may be in Somalia. "That doesn’t mean that Somalia can’t become a terrorist playground," he said. "We need the help of the United States of America."
"No checks. Cash or gold bars, please."
Posted by: Steve || 11/05/2003 4:27:58 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [234 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The Sunnis and the Shiites both hate the Sufi’s

Technically I don't think this is correct. Sufi's are Sunnis, so are Wahhabi's from Saudi Arabia. I think you mean the Wahhabi's and the Shiites both hate the Sufi's.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 16:59 Comments || Top||

#2  The Wahhabis certainly consider the Sufi's anathema, because Sufi mysticism is explicitly one of the supposed corrupting elements Wahhabism was to purge from Islam. The Wahhabi inclination is to consider such backsliders as apostates and not Muslims at all.

The Shi'a probably just consider Sufi's Sunni's.

Other non-Wahhabi strains of Sunni thought would also be anti-Sufi for related or different reasons, but would probably accept them as Muslims.

And there are strict/conservative Sufi's and otherwise.

None of this is simple.
Posted by: buwaya || 11/05/2003 17:52 Comments || Top||

#3  Damn buwaya it sounds like a Baptist Convention.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 19:41 Comments || Top||

#4  Damn buwaya it sounds like a Baptist Convention.
Which Baptist: Apostolic, Southern, American, New Reform, etc.??? We Christians don't do badly with creating ideological splinter groups, either, and have no cause to throw stones...
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 20:08 Comments || Top||

#5  I hit a web site on Sufism that one of the Rantburgers recommended a while back. Sufism resemmbled Taoism to me in some ways. I could see a Peaceful government being run in a state where the majority of citzens were Sufi.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 20:16 Comments || Top||

Central Asia
Mao’s "Long March" not so long....
SHANGHAI, China (AP) - [Red China’s army] slogged across rugged terrain for a year, fleeing Nationalist forces and forming the cornerstone of Chinese communist legend - the "Long March" that turned Mao Zedong’s guerrillas into folk heroes of the masses they would soon command.

Now, seven decades after the grueling trek, two Britons who retraced the march’s route on foot are committing political heresy. Their conclusion: The journey was more than a third shorter than the Communist Party says - by at least 2,500 miles.

Ed Jocelyn and Andy McEwan said their findings showed the journey - during which Mao cemented his rule over the party that took control of China in 1949 - was 3,700 miles long.

"It was still a remarkable achievement in endurance and courage," Jocelyn told The Associated Press on Wednesday. "The fact that it’s shorter than originally believed doesn’t diminish that in any way."

Not a chance, say communist traditionalists. "How could they possibly know the exact route and distance well enough to revise the figure?" said retired party historian Liu Binyan. "What kind of exact map could they have had?"

Jocelyn, 35, and McEwan, 37, completed their journey Monday after 384 days; the original march reportedly took 370 days. The two, who have worked as editors for English publications in Beijing, are neither geographers nor historians; they based their estimate on timed walks, maps and distance markers.

History books often say the 1934-35 Long March covered 6,200 miles; some accounts say it was as long as 8,000 miles.

"Some will get upset at what they see as an attack on a central myth of the revolution," McEwan acknowledged by mobile telephone from near Yan’an, where Mao’s forces settled in western China following the march.

Fleeing the forces of Nationalist leader Chiang Kai-shek, Mao and his Red Army followers trudged through some of China’s poorest, most remote areas, from Jiangxi province in the southeast to Shanxi in the north. Conditions were harsh. Of the roughly 80,000 men - and 35 women - who began, only between 8,000 and 9,000 survived.

"The Long March is the first of its kind," Mao wrote in late 1935. "It is a manifesto, a propaganda force, a seeding machine."

(big snip, read the rest at the link)

Gao Zhiyin, a spokesman for the Yan’an Foreign Affairs Department, dismissed their findings and wants to argue the matter face to face. "Can they change history?" Gao said. "The whole world acknowledges these facts."
Posted by: Seafarious || 11/05/2003 4:21:21 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [387 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Can they retrace the famous Kim Il Sung "Arduous March"? I think that was as long as it took to get from The Wacko House to the Pyongyang 7-11 to buy smokes.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 16:42 Comments || Top||

#2  It was still a hell of a walk.

But Fleeing the forces of Nationalist leader Chiang Kai-shek frankly this could have been done at Michael Moore speed.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 16:45 Comments || Top||

#3  I suspect those 35 women were really, really tired.

And bow legged.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 11/05/2003 16:46 Comments || Top||

#4  Gao Zhiyin, a spokesman for the Yan’an Foreign Affairs Department, dismissed their findings and wants to argue the matter face to face. "Can they change history?" Gao said. "The whole world acknowledges these facts."

Maybe Bulldog can arrange an honorary membership to the FlatEarth Society for Gao.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 20:21 Comments || Top||

#5  3,700 miles or 6,200 miles? Who gives a shit. Farther then I'd ever want to walk w/80,000 other guys and 35 women......
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 21:32 Comments || Top||

#6  Maybe Bulldog can arrange an honorary membership to the FlatEarth Society for Gao.

Don't know enough about him yet, SH, though he's welcome to apply. I should warn that we do screen out communists with some vigour - they can be a little crazy...
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/06/2003 4:08 Comments || Top||

#7  Bulldog, are those Flat Earth guys just a put on? Did they meet in some pub and come up with this too pass the time waiting for the next football season?
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/06/2003 4:42 Comments || Top||

East Asia
China’s desperate quest for Russian oil in doubt after arrest of Putin rival
From Geostrategy-Direct...
The arrest of Russian oil executive Mikhail Khodorkovsky has thrown into question a Russian-Chinese oil deal that calls for piping crude oil from Siberia to Beijing. The pipeline is the current focus of a covert political and economic battle for energy resources. The battle is being waged by China and Japan over the Angarsk oil fields near Lake Baikal in eastern Siberia. The Chinese are desperate to get the Angarsk oil because of their growing need for fuel, which some experts view as reaching near-crisis proportions. Japan, however, is vying for the Angarsk oil and has offered Russia financial incentives to build the pipeline due east of Angarsk and closer to Japan. China reached a deal with Khodorkovsky’s Yukos oil company to build the pipeline along a route 1,500 miles to China. Intelligence sources said Khodorkovsky’s arrest was related to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s concerns that Khodorkovsky or a surrogate would challenge Putin for political office. The Japanese pipeline project would go 500 miles to the Pacific Ocean, where it would be closer to Japan and other world markets. Oil industry analysts say there is not enough oil at Angarsk to meet the needs of both China and Japan.
Japan is looking for an alternate and more stable source of oil that its current middle eastern sources.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/05/2003 4:04:34 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [229 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Japan is looking for an alternate and more stable source of oil that its current middle eastern sources.

What about the South China Sea? There have been mutterings that it's promising. If so, then a Japan/Philippines strategic partnership might be a wise move at this point.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 17:31 Comments || Top||

#2  BAR---That is probably a good place. The Chicoms, Phillipines and Japan ought to joint venture the area and everyone will win. But taking other factors into account, this won't happen. Too bad. Maybe a Japan/Phillipines parternership may work, but what will the ChiComs do?
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/05/2003 17:40 Comments || Top||

#3  There are just so many potential messes out there a-bubbling.

It's an imperfect analogy but why do I have this 1910 feeling?
Posted by: Hiryu || 11/05/2003 18:19 Comments || Top||

#4  Oooo - good call...

Cuz you're paying attention, unlike most? ;-)
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 18:31 Comments || Top||

#5  I see the tying together of Japna, Russia and China in economic activity as a positive thing. It means there will be less chance of Kim playing one off the other. This also undercuts Saudi leverage.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 20:35 Comments || Top||

#6  The Chicoms need to realize that the NORKS are a dead skunk in the middle of the road. There is no reason to keep supporting a stinking road kill. They will have to get over their ideology and start working positively with other countries, if they really want to advance. I guess its some leaders vs. the PLA.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/05/2003 21:10 Comments || Top||

Africa: Southern
Rainbow nation fears new bloodbath of whites
EFL The Scotsman
While I was looking for the original article on the Scottish farmer from Bobland, I saw this article that updates how things are going in South Africa. This is a long article that I could have editted more from but most of the material was too offensive to cut. Read on.
WHEN Nelson Mandela came to power in 1994 he declared South Africa would be a "rainbow nation" free from the hatred brought by years of apartheid. But now a very different African leader’s influence threatens to shatter the dream of a racially-tolerant country with increasing numbers of white farmers being murdered by impoverished blacks inspired by Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe’s policy of taking away their land by force. I thought he was just going to take down Zimbabwe.
In South Africa, more than 1,500 white farmers have been killed since 1994, compared to 14 murdered by Mugabe’s supporters in three years of violence in neighbouring Zimbabwe. Most have died during robberies, but, according to a devastating report commissioned by South African President Thabo Mbeki’s government, they are increasingly being killed by farm workers who want land of their own.

In Pretoria on November 4, a cross-section of that country’s top security officers, academics and lawyers will meet to discuss what is seen as a serious threat to national security and the future of organised agriculture in South Africa. They plan to tell the deeply worried Mbeki that he must take immediate action to meet the aspirations of millions of landless black South Africans. A decade after the African National Congress (ANC) came to power promising blacks an end to white political and economic rule, some 40,000 whites dominate almost all aspects of food production. Mbeki recently condemned what he called the "two societies" that still exist in post-apartheid South Africa.

But black activists like Supho Makhombothi, of the Mpoumalanga Labour Tenants Association (MLTA) which represents landless farm labourers in the impoverished Piet Retief and Wakkerstroom districts, are tired of rhetoric. "We have waited long enough. Nothing has happened despite all the promises made by the African National Congress about returning the land to us," he said. "We are still living in slavery. We have therefore given the government an ultimatum to give us land or we will simply follow the example of our brothers in Zimbabwe and invade." Leaders of the Pan Africanist Congress (PAC) - whose pre-independence slogan was ‘one settler, one bullet’ - are calling on Mugabe to tour the country’s rural areas and address landless blacks.
PAC should immediately qualify for the Terrorist list.
Makhombothi, who the South African Government calls a "lawless thug", said: "President Mugabe has supported what we believe is the best solution for returning land to black farmers. We want to hear him speak and learn from him." Police are boosting local capacity after these threats by the MLTA. There have been reports, denied by police, that unemployed and criminal-minded blacks are paid almost £200 a time to ambush, slaughter and then kill white farmers, their wives and children. Werner Weber, chairman of a pan-agricultural union pressure group called Action: Stop the Farm Attacks, said: "They’re shown how to kill by watching videos made by some anti-white organisation called Black Jack."

Confirming that the police and army are developing emergency contingency plans to prevent threatened Zimbabwe-style land invasions, South African National Defence Commander Colonel Anton Kritzinger confirmed that plans were underway for the mobilisation of a rapid response army unit. "We obviously hope it is not necessary but we are developing contingency plans to deploy troops if the situation is too big for the police to handle," he said. On the eve of the next Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM) in Abuja, Nigeria, sources close to the Commonwealth Secretariat in London told Scotland on Sunday that despite all the predictions that he would step down this December, Mugabe was becoming an increasingly influential figure.
"It’s not just landless Africans who admire him," the source said. "Aborigines, Maoris and even Mexicans think he is a fighter for economic justice in the Third World."
The idea has defintiely spread to South America.
Baroness Amos, who has a long association with African developments since 1997, said that it was time Africa woke up to Mugabe.
I think they have - that’s the problem.
A senior Commonwealth source said: "Mugabe is going to use the land ownership issue at CHOGM to rally support for the landless against white power in Africa and there’s still plenty of white economic power in South Africa.
His own version of reparations which results in an increase of his personal power.
"He is quite capable of appealing to the black masses over the head of Thabo Mbeki if he is ever seriously criticised by the South African Government. Hence Mbeki’s desire to pursue his largely ineffectual quiet diplomacy on the Zimbabwean issue."
Mbeki fears Bob the way the Saudis fear the jihadis - intersting theory.
One of the men who has the ear of Mbeki on the land issue and the growing fear of Zimbabwean-style invasions is Dr Edward Latiff, a prominent academic with the Programme for Land and Agrarian Studies at the University of Western Cape. "Mugabe has raised the profile of land reform," he said. "It was an issue that hardly existed on the political landscape in 1998.
Chaos the logical end to race politics.
At the grassroots level, there has been an incredible increase in militancy with the formation of the Landless People’s Movement and a series of threatened land invasions." Mbeki tries to play down the fears, telling would-be investors that the deaths of so many white farmers is not the start of an ethnic cleansing campaign, but part of the general breakdown of law and order.
Tweet tweet tweet. I’m whistling and its dark out.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 3:23:58 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [243 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Nellie, any comment? Nellie?.....Nellie?...
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 16:18 Comments || Top||

#2  We may be seeing the long downhill slide of South Africa. It would be a great tragedy if all the farming expertise and production went down the tubes like in Zimbobwe (courtesy of Bob). But, if things go bad, we better have our ducks in line for alternate sources of strategic materials, like chromium, manganese, vanadium, etc. A country in anarchy cannot keep a mining industry going, and the modern world needs these strategic resources to keep going.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 11/05/2003 16:29 Comments || Top||

#3  Is South Africa third world yet? They certainly are giving it their best efforts.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 16:54 Comments || Top||

#4  Those folks losing their jobs in Kenya should count their blessings that they're just losing their jobs.

Africa's going down the tubes and anyone who can get out should.

Posted by: Hiryu || 11/05/2003 18:16 Comments || Top||

#5  The problem is, expect a massive Muslim Jihad when Africa implodes. That would be even more disasterous, not only for the West, but for Africa as a whole. Being constantly locked into the 7th Century is not good for anyone.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 20:14 Comments || Top||

#6  OP, are you saying that the sub-Sahara will go Muslim too?
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 20:39 Comments || Top||

Middle East
Soddys are bad - says the New Yorker
This is an old article (2001) from the NewYorker by way of Tacitus, but well worth reading the whole thing in case anyone still has any doubts about the nature of the beast - EFL.

Since 1994 or earlier, the National Security Agency has been collecting electronic intercepts of conversations between members of the Saudi Arabian royal family, which is headed by King Fahd. The intercepts depict a regime increasingly corrupt, alienated from the country’s religious rank and file, and so weakened and frightened that it has brokered its future by channelling hundreds of millions of dollars in what amounts to protection money to fundamentalist groups that wish to overthrow it.

The intercepts have demonstrated to analysts that by 1996 Saudi money was supporting Osama bin Laden’s Al Qaeda and other extremist groups in Afghanistan, Lebanon, Yemen, and Central Asia, and throughout the Persian Gulf region. "Ninety-six is the key year," one American intelligence official told me. "Bin Laden hooked up to all the bad guys—it’s like the Grand Alliance— and had a capability for conducting large-scale operations." The Saudi regime, he said, had "gone to the dark side."
Posted by: mercutio || 11/05/2003 3:22:03 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [224 views] Top|| File under:

Orson Scott Card: "A Visit to Israel"
Interesting commentary by Orson Scott Card about both sides of the Israel/Palestinian conflict, and the attitudes of both populations. I’m quoting only a small piece - read the whole.

The idea of building such a wall makes sense. If Palestinians continue to shelter and applaud terrorists instead of being ashamed of them and refusing to cooperate with them, then they don’t deserve to have free access to Israel -- even if that’s where all the jobs are.

The trouble with Ariel Sharon’s wall is not that it’s being built, but where he’s building it.

You see, Sharon is politically dependent on (and personally sympathetic to) groups inside Israel who insist on building Jewish settlements in "Judea and Samaria," and he is gerrymandering the wall to include settlements far inside the 1967 borders of the West Bank.

The result is a border that is ridiculous in every way a border can be.

It is indefensible -- it snakes around worse than a meandering river, and there aren’t enough troops in Israel to patrol it or defend it.

By its very shape, it guarantees that Israel will still have to enter Palestinian territory regularly, and that terrorists -- or an invasion force -- would be able to get through the wall when they want to, since an undefended wall is not a wall, it’s cover.

Worse yet, it would be impossible, even in a completely free and democratic Palestine, for any leader ever to be elected without vowing to destroy that wall and restore the borders of 1967. Sharon’s wall, if built where he’s planning to build it, will be a continuing provocation -- and one that weakens, rather than strengthens, Israel’s defensive position.

America should be ready to take any measure necessary -- including war -- to protect the existence of Israel.

But America should not spend one thin dime or risk one drop of American blood to defend Sharon’s wall, if it is placed where he is placing it.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/05/2003 2:21:23 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [339 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I keep thinking that the purpose of the wall is not for security per se, but focus. If Isreal succeeds in getting the paleo dimbulb bombers to focus attack on the wall, rather than the buses and cafes, then the wall is a success. And as long as Fatah and Hamas can blow up The Wall, they are winners within the rest of Palestine. A 'flypaper' wall, if you like, way out in the desert where no innocents get hurt. Works for me. Sharon's brilliant stroke.
Posted by: john || 11/05/2003 14:39 Comments || Top||

#2  actually the wall leaves lots of settlements on the other side. It takes one big swerve - so far - to bring in Ariel, the largest settlement (really a small city) Even Baraks peace offer envisioned keeping Ariel, IIRC (though in return the Pals would get some land from pre-67 Israel) Building a wall without covering Ariel would be incompatible with Sharons tough negotiating strategy I think.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/05/2003 14:44 Comments || Top||

#3  Oddly enough, even as I have been a backer of Israel, I agree with this assessment to a degree. However, it is not likely that the U.S. will have to defend "Sharon's wall", as Israel has proven repeatedly that it can take care of itself where Palestinian terrorism is concerned, and is capable of doing much more if the situation calls for it.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 17:20 Comments || Top||

#4  Frankly I've always thought the settlements were a chip that kept getting bid when the Paleos refuse to play nicely. The wall is the same - every time the Paleos f&*k up - they lose more future nation. For what it's worth they're acting like irrational animals, and trying to get on their good side is the last of my concerns. Take the leash of Sharon and play whack a mole with Arafat and Yassin.
Posted by: Frank G || 11/05/2003 19:12 Comments || Top||

#5  The wall is the same - every time the Paleos f&*k up - they lose more future nation.

But as OSC says this wall isn't viable as a border for either side -- in the place it's being built.

The drawing of the wall shows Sharon doesn't want any such "future Palestinian nation" to be built. And, again as OSC says, it makes it impossible for lasting peace to take place, even with Palestinians that wouldn't be "acting like irrational animals".

This isn't about getting one anyone's good side.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 11/05/2003 21:42 Comments || Top||

#6  I agree with Aris.

What's worse is--the last thing Arafat wants is a country. It should be forced upon him; indeed, Sharon should have done this already. I don't say the border has to be that of '67--nor, unfortunately, am I real sure what to do about Ariel--but the Israelis would be clever to make do with the least possible land.
Posted by: Brian (MN) || 11/05/2003 22:03 Comments || Top||

#7  The future border (if any) will not follow '67 or rather '48 armistice lines. The fence is there to keep the murderers out. The settlements are there as bargaining chips and for potential final borders definition. As for the final borders - anybody's guess is fine.
Posted by: marek || 11/05/2003 23:19 Comments || Top||

#8  Marek--

The problem with using the settlements as barganing chips is that that implies that Israel ought to bargain. That's a bad idea--it's crazy to ask Arafat to accept a country because it's clear he won't. Build the wall, don't bargain.

Aris, is this your position as well?
Posted by: Brian (MN) || 11/06/2003 8:34 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Dean once more
NASHUA, N.H. -- Howard Dean said Wednesday he regretted the pain he caused by saying that the Democratic Party must court Southerners who display the symbol of the Confederacy in their pickup trucks.
"I’m sorry. I’m so sorry it makes my head spin. Mea maxima culpa. Could you ever, ever, EVER forgive me?"
Speaking in New York about campaign finance, the former Vermont governor sought to quell the dispute that erupted over his recent comment and his unwillingness to apologize for it during Tuesday night’s debate.

"I regret the pain that I have caused, but I will tell you there is no easy way to do this and there will be pain as we discuss it and we must face this together hand in hand as Dr. (Martin Luther) King and Abraham Lincoln asked us to do," Dean said.

Rival John Edwards, who had complained on Tuesday about Northerners telling Southerners what to do, said during a campaign stop in New Hampshire that he accepted Dean’s apology.

"It sounds like he’s done the right thing. It would have been better if he’d done it last night," the North Carolina senator said, adding that it remains to be seen how the American voters view his statements.

Dean came under fire from his foes Tuesday night in a Democratic presidential debate that veered from hip to heated. The candidate refused to recant his recent statement that the party must court Southerners who display the symbol of the Confederacy in their pickup trucks.

"It’s a racist symbol but I also think the Democratic Party has to be a big tent," Dean said Tuesday night. "Poor white people need to vote their economic interest."

Earlier Wednesday, one of Dean’s rivals sought to undercut his front-running status, criticizing the former Vermont governor’s comments and his refusal to apologize.

"Howard Dean offended both blacks and whites in the South by using the Confederate flag as a political symbol and should admit he was wrong," Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut said during a campaign stop in New Hampshire, adding, "a leader has to be strong enough to admit a mistake."

Edwards and Al Sharpton sharply challenged Dean on the debate stage, and even one prominent Democratic officeholder who has yet to endorse any of the contenders questioned Dean’s strategy.

"Governor Dean was trying to reach out to disenfranchised voters in the South, but he needs to be more careful," said Democratic Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico. "I don’t think this is serious, but it has put a little bit of a dent in his front-runner status."

Dean’s rivals can only hope so, with the kickoff Iowa caucus and New Hampshire presidential primary contests less than three months away and the former Vermont governor continuing to run strongly in polls in both states.

And even as the debate was unfolding, there was fresh evidence of the difficulties Democrats face in the South as they prepare to challenge President Bush next year.

In off-year balloting hundreds of miles from the debate site, Republicans elected a governor in Kentucky for the first time in 32 years and ousted the incumbent Democratic governor in Mississippi.
Posted by: Atrus || 11/05/2003 1:51:48 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [358 views] Top|| File under:

#1  the key point here is not so much the insult to blacks (though that may hurt Dean) as the insult to white southern democrats, many of who have pickups, but very few of who have confedarate flags. Like Edwards said, if a white Southerner had said this he'd be out of the race. Its got to be infuriating that Dean can say this and get away with it.

Its also bizarrely stupid. Dean notes that these blue collar folks have an economic interest in Dem policies. What does he think is keeping them away from the Dems? Could it be candidates who have dovish foreign policies, who are identified with Yankee "activists" and social liberalism, and whose main claim to moderation is their fiscal conservatism, the one conservative policy NOT likely to appeal to blue collar dems? Does Dean really think his pro-gun stance makes up for all that? If the dems want blue collar southern votes they should nominate Edwards, or Gephardt, NOT Dean.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/05/2003 14:41 Comments || Top||

#2  Heck, he's a puss for apologizing. If you say you're for poor southern whites, many who fly the Confederate battle flag (I'm a northerner living in S.C. & see it every day) then don't apologize for it. Have some balls. BTW - most southerners who fly the thing look at it as heritage, states rights, and dixie history. Rightly or wrongly they don't equate it to slavery. The flag issue is so stupid and blown outta proportion it takes away from actual debate that really affects most Americans. Maybe a stupid move by Dean but Edwards is jumping on this purely for political points. I wouldn't be surprised if some good ole boys in N.C. (where I've also lived over three years) jump ship on him.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 15:06 Comments || Top||

#3  "Poor white people need to vote their economic interest."

Or if I may paraphrase: "C'mon, whitey, you can hate rich folks, too!"
Posted by: eLarson || 11/05/2003 15:51 Comments || Top||

#4  That sound you're hearing is the stampede of the last few white Southern Democrats making their move to the Republicans.

Mr. Metrosexual managed to tee off blacks and southern whites in one fell swoop. And George Bush is a moron?

Posted by: R. McLeod || 11/05/2003 16:38 Comments || Top||

#5  We need input from a small town mid-western type.

Betya NMM's got a PU made in the US and drinks pure ethanol.

(Stayin on message)
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 16:54 Comments || Top||

#6  betcha he doesn't lol
Posted by: Frank G || 11/05/2003 19:21 Comments || Top||

#7  Good comment on this from PhotoDude (in Atlanta):

"The basic sentiment [that the Democrats need to work on their appeal to rural white southerners] is true, but the specifics got him a lambasting from every one of his opponents...

All I can say is that I'm a white guy from the South, I drive a pickup truck, and it has a flag on it, so I suppose I must fit the Traditional Southern Stereotype. The fact I'm that an urban freelance worker in a creative field, who voted a majority Democratic ticket in 2002, and have the United States flag on my truck are merely annoying inconsistencies.

Because, otherwise, we Southerners are all alike." --Bush, the South, and the Center

As a white "midwestern type" (although not from a small town, but one that thinks like one), my take is that the guys with the Confederate flags on their trucks were probably more amused than offended by the inital remark, but now they'll call Dean a wuss for backing off. The ones who made most of the noise were the party's (mostly urban and bicoastal) Professional Offense-Takers, a constituency that must be appeased if a candidate is to get anywhere in the primaries, but has little connection-- and much contempt-- for the average citizen in the heartland.
Posted by: Old Grouch || 11/05/2003 20:34 Comments || Top||

#8  North Carolinians as a majority have already dumped Edwards. His poll numbers for re-election as senator were very bad. That's one reason he decided to not run again for the senate here even though he could have done so while still running for president. He hasn't done a thing for NC while up in Washington and the people here know it.
Posted by: Anonymous NC || 11/05/2003 20:36 Comments || Top||

#9  "Professional Offense-Takers, a constituency that must be appeased if a candidate is to get anywhere in the primaries, but has little connection-- and much contempt-- for the average citizen in the heartland."

-O.G. - well said. "professional offense-takers" is a great analogy.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 21:25 Comments || Top||

#10  Jarhead--once again we agree--Edwards has done jack for NC and I say that as a Democrat--if the weak candidate/hack he replaced had been a Democrat he would have run as a Republican--can you say rich opportunist?--he's spent all his time in DC trying to become president--he will definitely cause the Dems to lose a Senate seat in NC which makes me extremely agitated--although Liddy Dole seems nice!
I think Dean's point was that the Dems have lost the Southern Blue collar vote--many of whom DO drive pick-ups with Confederate flags--but vote the NRA line--not their economic interests
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 23:56 Comments || Top||

N Korea calls Japanese 'Japs' at U.N. General Assembly
A North Korean diplomat called the Japanese "Japs" three times during a meeting of the U.N. General Assembly on Tuesday. North Korea's Deputy Ambassador to the United Nations Kim Chang Guk made the remarks in English while he was accusing Japan of taking a hostile stance toward his country. The comments sparked a protest by his Japanese counterpart, Yoshiyuki Motomura. The president of the current General Assembly session, Julian Hunte, asked North Korea not to use the derogatory term any more.
Lemme get this straight: Somebody named Kim Chang Gook is calling people names?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 12:52 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [245 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Please. Call 'em slopes...
Posted by: mojo || 11/05/2003 12:57 Comments || Top||

#2  Ass kissing poofy haired midget lovers!
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 13:13 Comments || Top||

#3  Can the UN pass a resolution about hate speech before this gets entirely out of hand?
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 13:28 Comments || Top||

#4  I don't blame them for being pissed......everyone knows they prefer to be called Nips........
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 13:58 Comments || Top||

#5  Lemme get this straight: Somebody named Kim Chang Gook is calling people names?

Former SKor Foreign Minister Lee Bum Suk should step in to ease the tension.
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 14:01 Comments || Top||

#6  Looks like someone was hittin' the Juche at the UN Bar prior to assembly.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 11/05/2003 14:22 Comments || Top||

#7  "Can the UN pass a resolution about hate speech before this gets entirely out of hand?"

Would that mean that "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" would be out of bounds?
Posted by: Matt || 11/05/2003 14:25 Comments || Top||

#8  Can the UN pass a resolution about hate speech before this gets entirely out of hand?

That would mean silencing the Arab Nations, and that is unacceptable to the UN.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 14:54 Comments || Top||

#9  Japs is short for Japanese, it is not a nasty word except in North American lingo and even then only when the conotation and sneer is correct. I guess we can assume the NKorean knew what he was saying and how he was saying it but really this is somewhat sane compared to some of their other frothings.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 15:39 Comments || Top||

#10  How can an organization that has no resolve pass anything called a resolution?
Posted by: eLarson || 11/05/2003 15:58 Comments || Top||

#11  "Jap" is still widely used in the Phillipines, even in the media. Given their history, the North American connotation is probably the one intended.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 11/05/2003 17:30 Comments || Top||

Syria: Abandon Iraq, Merkins!
BEIRUT, Lebanon - The Syrian foreign ministry called on the United States to pull its troops out of Iraq, saying their presence has led to chaos and terrorism, according to remarks published Wednesday.
Right before their lips all fell off
There was no terrorism problem in Iraq when the United States entered the country, a spokeswoman for Syria’s foreign ministry said in an interview with the London-based Saudi newspaper Asharq al-Awsat.
Rather, there was a tyrant who terrorized his 26000000 slaves.
"Now, there is the problem of terrorism and of al-Qaida," Bushra Kanafani said in published remarks.

Leaders of al-Qaida, accused in the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, have called on Muslim militants to strike Americans in Iraq. U.S. officials, however, say there is no firm evidence the terror network is organizing guerrillas in Iraq.

The United States has repeatedly accused Syria, long on the U.S. State Department list of countries sponsoring terrorism and an opponent of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, of not doing enough to ensure Muslim militants do not slip across its border into Iraq. Syrian officials say the long, porous border makes it hard to stop infiltrators.

"The problem here is not Syria, but America," Kanafani was quoted as telling Asharq al-Awsat.

Kanafani said the United States can help restore order if it accepts a timetable for withdrawing its troops from Iraq and allows a greater peacekeeping role for the United Nations.
We need people who love tyrants to oversee this!
Syrian President Bashar Assad has also blamed the U.S.-led occupation for instability in Iraq.

"The world has discovered that the war of ’liberation’ of Iraq has liberated the Iraqi citizen of the state, the institutions, sovereignty, dignity, food, water and electricity," Assad said in a speech at the Organization of the Islamic Conference summit in Malaysia last month.

"The Iraqi citizen has become ’liberated’ from the gift of life, and everyone, without exception, has discovered that the excuses which led to war lacked credibility," Assad said, referring to the U.S.-led coalition’s failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Then his lips fell off, he broke a harp string, his nose grew, his legs shrank, and he turned to halite.
In addition to Iraq, Syrian-U.S. ties have been strained over Syrian support for anti-Israel groups based in Damascus and for the Lebanese Hezbollah group. Washington calls those groups terrorist organizations.
Because they are, you asshat!
Kanafani told Asharq al-Awsat she was not optimistic about an early improvement in U.S.-Syrian ties.
Hey Syrian Foreign Ministry! I have a message for youse liars: ..!..
Posted by: Atrus || 11/05/2003 12:45:52 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [224 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Come get some, Syria. Give us an excuse.
Posted by: mojo || 11/05/2003 12:52 Comments || Top||

#2  Sure. Pull them out and put 'em in Syria. You'd probably solve half of Iraq's problems right there.
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 13:09 Comments || Top||

#3  TU, I would agree on pulling all Coalition troops out of Iraq via Beruit and Damascus, but they didn't say Simon says.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 13:30 Comments || Top||

#4  How about via Teheran, as well.
Posted by: Atrus || 11/05/2003 13:31 Comments || Top||

#5  Right after they withdraw from Lebanon. Oh, and recognize Israel.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/05/2003 13:35 Comments || Top||

#6  mubarat had flown over to Syria two days ago to tell Assad to start toning it down a few notches - guess Assad didn't understand or else he did understand and didn't give a s..t
Posted by: mhw || 11/05/2003 14:13 Comments || Top||

#7  Assad just dug himself a VERY deep hole.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 14:19 Comments || Top||

#8  I think Syria just insured they were in the Number One spot on Bush's "to do" list.

I think it's time Bush mobilized the rest of US forces to fight this insane war against insane foes. There are about 10 million "retired reserve" personnel, and I'm sure half of them would gladly go back in for a year or so to "help restore order in the Middle East". Hell, I'm 70% disabled, and I'd go, even as a gun-bunny. I can still see well and shoot straight. Packing a 70lb ruck would not be nice to my bad back, but I'm sure I could find a nice golf cart at WalMart to solve the problem.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 18:47 Comments || Top||

#9  I think Syria just insured they were in the Number One spot on Bush's "to do" list.

I think it's time Bush mobilized the rest of US forces to fight this insane war against insane foes. There are about 10 million "retired reserve" personnel, and I'm sure half of them would gladly go back in for a year or so to "help restore order in the Middle East". Hell, I'm 70% disabled, and I'd go, even as a gun-bunny. I can still see well and shoot straight. Packing a 70lb ruck would not be nice to my bad back, but I'm sure I could find a nice golf cart at WalMart to solve the problem.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 18:47 Comments || Top||

#10  OP, we know you're eager and willing. Double posting will NOT get you noticed by GWB/Rumsfeld. Appreciate the patriotism and resolve tho' :-)
Posted by: Frank G || 11/05/2003 19:28 Comments || Top||

#11  D'ya think they'd let me bring one of those segway scooter thingies? It's all that walkin' shit that would irritate my plantar fascitis... I can still plink the stinger off a bee at 200. 8-)

Frank / SuperHose - where you guys been all day?
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 21:50 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Muslim Woman's Lawsuit Against The Breakers Dismissed
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) - A judge dismissed a discrimination lawsuit filed by a Muslim woman who was fired from her job as a luxury hotel's housekeeping supervisor the day after the 2001 terrorist attacks. Fatiha Gentzler had claimed that she was fired from The Breakers hotel on Sept. 12, 2001, because of her religion. The Moroccan-born Gentzler had accused the famed Palm Beach hotel of firing her without warning or previous disciplinary action. She alleged she was told, "you don't fit here" and "we can't have you here" during her dismissal meeting.
Oh, terrible! Terrible! I'll bet CAIR pooped when they heard that...
But Circuit Judge Timothy McCarthy granted the hotel a summary judgment, denying Gentzler's claim for $30,000 in back pay and punitive damages in her lawsuit.
But... but... How can that be? I mean, they discriminated against the poor woman because of her religion and ethnicity and...
The Oct. 7 ruling came after attorneys for The Breakers argued that Gentzler had nine complaints of misconduct or poor job performance during her three months as a floor supervisor.
That's... ummm... three a month...
The decision to fire Gentzler was made five days before the Sept. 11 attacks and the person who fired Gentzler was not aware she was Muslim, hotel attorney Joe Curley said in court records.
Never mind.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 12:23 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [222 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hey, it was worth a shot, right Fatiha? Didn't think they'd do sneaky stuff like check into your background or work record did you?
Too bad, so sad...
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 12:35 Comments || Top||

#2  What about Atty fees for the hotel? Until the lawyers pushing crap lawsuits are forced to pay for their lack of professionalism or ethics, this stuff will continue to clog our courts (and raise my blood pressure)
Posted by: Frank G || 11/05/2003 12:40 Comments || Top||

#3  The muslims are catching on to this who suing idea. Another guy is going for the bigger bucks, though. Guantanamo inmate sues US
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 13:35 Comments || Top||

South Korea Plans to Deploy U.S. Missiles
South Korea will begin deploying U.S.-made missiles next month that can strike most of North Korea, a defense ministry official said Wednesday.
This is going to curl Kimmie’s hair!
The Army Tactical Missile System Block 1A missiles, made by the U.S. company Lockheed Martin, has a range of 186 miles and will be deployed near the Demilitarized Zone - a 2 mile-wide border separating the two nations. ``We plan to start deploying the missiles next month,’’ said the official. South Korea has already purchased an undisclosed number of the weapons and intends to buy a total of 111 Army Tactical Missile System Block 1A missiles by 2004. It bought the early version of the system with a range of 102 miles in 1997.
And I bet the accuracy of the Block 1A is a mite better than the Long-Dong.
South Korea has expressed wishes to develop missiles with a longer range. It obtained U.S. approval in 2001 to develop missiles with a range of up to 186 miles. Under a 1979 accord with the United States, South Korea had been barred from developing missile with a range longer than 112 miles. Missiles with a range of 186 miles are capable of striking Pyongyang and other parts of North Korea including, Yongbyon, where the North says it is using spent nuclear fuel rods to make atomic bombs.
What an amazing coincidence!
Posted by: Steve White || 11/05/2003 12:00:28 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [251 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This will take some of the 'poof' out of Kimmie-boy's hair.

I wonder if we already have Patriot missles there or not. And the there is Japan....
Posted by: CrazyFool || 11/05/2003 12:30 Comments || Top||

#2  If the NK guy in the UN is calling Japanese citizens Japs, what does he call the SK citizens?
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 13:38 Comments || Top||

#3  Yes, there are Patriot Batteries in SK. I can vouch for it as having spent a year in the "Land-of-Not-Quite-Right".
Posted by: whitecollar redneck || 11/05/2003 14:50 Comments || Top||

#4  Both Japan and SKorea have issued requests to purchase the PAT3 missile systems. I'm sure the first thing Japan will do, once they get a few, is to reverse-engineer one, see how many different ways they can improve it, and begin building their own. Within ten years, I'd expect a ring of these around all strategic areas in Japan. This is just one more thing that's giving the Chicoms sleepless nights.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 18:24 Comments || Top||

#5  Army Tactical Missile System Block 1A?
Or the remotely controlled D-9?

I'm in a quandary... and the Christmas buget is tight.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 20:39 Comments || Top||

#6  Simple, Shipman. Buy the ATMS for yourself and get the D-9 for any kid on your shopping list. It'll kick any of those remote controlled model cars ass.
Posted by: Steve || 11/05/2003 21:33 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Navy’s Last Carrier Group Heads Home
CORONADO, Calif. (AP) - The Navy’s last carrier strike group headed home to San Diego Bay from Iraq on Wednesday, eight months after it deployed for its role in the Persian Gulf. The USS Nimitz aircraft carrier and its 6,000 sailors led the strike group, which also included the USS Princeton guided missile cruiser and the USS Bridge combat support ship.

The nuclear-powered aircraft carrier and seven other ships had joined with five other carrier battle groups in the Persian Gulf to form an unprecedented floating air force within striking distance of Iraq. During the deployment, aircraft from the Nimitz flew more than 6,500 missions. It was the carrier’s first deployment since a major overhaul in 1997, and its first since relocating to San Diego in 2001.

Pilots and aircrews from two squadrons assigned to the Nimitz returned to North Island Naval Air Station on Tuesday, while other squadrons flew to their homes in Lemoore, Point Mugu and Whidbey Island, Wash.
Sailors, Marines, Aviators: thank you!
Posted by: Steve White || 11/05/2003 11:58:05 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [234 views] Top|| File under:

#1  just watched it come in around North Island (from my office window - heh heh - benefits of working downtown) truly a beautiful day - our thanks to the sailors and their families for the sacrifices made
Posted by: Frank G || 11/05/2003 12:13 Comments || Top||

#2  If any Rantburgers ever gets that opportunity to participate in a Tiger Cruise (fly to meet a ship for the last couple of days of a deployment,) Super Hose recommends the program. Especially for a carrier - you get to see an air show.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 12:15 Comments || Top||

#3  Thank you and god speed.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 11/05/2003 12:41 Comments || Top||

#4  Especially for a carrier - you get to see an air show.

Ack! Carriers! Air ops!!! Plane guard!!!
Posted by: Pappy || 11/05/2003 12:53 Comments || Top||

#5  Pappy, my dad turned down Tiger Cruises on both my ships (one was a tin can.) He found time to make one while my older brother was on the TR. The old man talked for months about it; he would have gotten sick on the destroyer anyway.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 13:40 Comments || Top||

#6  SH: Tiger Cruise details ? Like, do you have to be in the service or a family member of a serving person ?

Or, can I just go to a travel agency and buy a ticket for myself and my family ?

Posted by: Carl in N.H. || 11/05/2003 15:17 Comments || Top||

#7  Spent ten days on the Kitty in 1971... Wasn't a "joy ride" - was working a special project with the Navy Intel guys, but still awesome. I have every respect for the sailers and airmen that fly off those little sea-going postage-stamps.

I doubt the "last carrier group" has left the area. The Sixth Fleet has at least one CBG in the Med at all times.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 16:38 Comments || Top||

#8  Good job and welcome home! God bless y'all!
Posted by: Ptah || 11/05/2003 19:25 Comments || Top||

#9  Carl, if you are friends with someone stationed on a Navy ship, you can probably get an invite. For others, we used to take passengers onboard the Yellowstone for 2 day trips out into the Virgina Capes when we were going out for training. I don't think any of them were high mucky mucks - just folks that called their congress-persons or Members of a Navy or Marine Corps League - which are open to all. This may have changed after the submarine surfaced from under the Japanese trawler in Hawaii with a bunch of civilians on the bridge.

I don't know if it has changed but each weekend they used to assign a ship to be open for public tours on the Naval Operations Base (NOB) Norfolk.

The same base has a free air show that includes harriers and stealth aircraft once a year.

In your neck of the woods there may be tours available at Bath Iron Works in Maine where many Navy Ships are built. Our family took a trip up the road to Pemequid Lighthouse this summer and saw a new Aigis Destroyer being built from the bridge.

The best Navy experience I've had with the kids, though - and two of the three are too young to remember me being in - was A Battleship Cove in Fall River. It was raining but the kids still got a kick out of crawling about a battleship. It is awesome. For me - a first was walking about a Russian patrol boat. Never been on one.

From Battleship Cove there is also a harbor tour that we took. The tour boat captain was a great guy and let every person on the ship man the helm if they wanted. He reminded me of Col David Hunt from Fox.

Also if you call ahead you can arrange to sleep aboard the battleship USS Massachusetts in an actual WW II bunk. We didn't do that but it sounds like something that a Cub Scout Pack would enjoy.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 21:12 Comments || Top||

#10  When I was on the Bataan some of the Navy lads had their folks come on for about a week. Did wonders for their morale. Good program. Welcome home Brothers!
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 21:19 Comments || Top||

#11  SH, Tiger Cruises were always a blast for the crew and the Tigers (except for the kids of one CWO who made them stand mid-watch with him). I just have a somewhat dis-colored view of carriers. Too many hours of conning during plane-guard.
Posted by: Pappy || 11/05/2003 22:23 Comments || Top||

Yesterday on the Tonight Show
Yesterday on the Tonight Show, Jay Leno had as his guests former first lady Barbara Bush, and four-year-old Abby, a child who knows quite a lot about presidents. Leno admitted he thought it would be fun to have Abby interact with Ms. Bush, and so it was, since Abby is not only smart, but a happy, cute girl who has no problem interacting with strangers. There was a moment, however, that revealed more than anybody planned for. At some point in the interview, Ms. Bush asks Abby to give her a quote from President Bush.
"Which one?" Abby asked.

"Either one."

"I’ll give you a quote from your son: ’I hear you, the rest of the world hears you, and the people who brought this buildings down, will hear all of us soon.’--George W. Bush"
The audience cheered loudly, like the firefighters did that day.

I felt an spinal chill--not the cowardly one, the bloodthirsty one.

Ms. Bush had to look away to contain her tears.
Posted by: Sorge || 11/05/2003 11:33:16 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [230 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Fred: I hesitated to post this, I hope it is not out of bounds.
Posted by: Sorge || 11/05/2003 11:34 Comments || Top||

#2  its a media quote, and its about the WOT, so I wont Peshawar it.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/05/2003 11:42 Comments || Top||

#3  its a media quote, and its about the WOT, so I wont Peshawar it.

It doesn't matter what YOU think. The owner of this blog makes that decision.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 11:46 Comments || Top||

#4  I hope that Bush will be remembered in years to come for that quote, rather than for the occasional "religion of peace" pablum he occasionally spits up.
Posted by: Fred || 11/05/2003 11:58 Comments || Top||

#5  Let's see if they play that one on Al-Jazeera.
Posted by: Matt || 11/05/2003 12:01 Comments || Top||

#6  Let's hope they play it up loudly.
The only potential downside I see is "The mouse that roared" mentality, which I'd have to rate as highly unlikely.

In some ways, I think that may have been the most powerful American speech since Gettysburg.
Posted by: Dishman || 11/05/2003 12:09 Comments || Top||

#7  If anyone has the video (or audio) or link to any media - please post. I gotta see it!
Posted by: rawsnacks || 11/05/2003 13:29 Comments || Top||

#8  I watched the President say that great line at my liberal-leaning NYC law firm, and everyone in attendance agreed (a) that it was a great line that will join "Ask not . . ." and "The only thing we have to fear . . ." as an all time great Presidential line (what makes it all the more impressive is that it was off-the-cuff and spontaneous) and (b) it was the turning point of GWB's Presidency.
Posted by: Tibor || 11/05/2003 13:40 Comments || Top||

#9  "It doesn't matter what YOU think. The owner of this blog makes that decision."

But of course. Its theirs to delete, keep (bind and free:) ) etc. I meant that i wouldnt come in and post the word "peshawar" Since i tend to be the most vociferous about not liking domestic politics here, i meant to see that EVEN I think its on topic. I didnt mean to imply any authority whatsoever. Sorry if I was unclear.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/05/2003 14:22 Comments || Top||

#10  I didn't watch last night for some reason, but now I wish I had. Someone PLEASE post a link to the footage of that moment. I'm begging you.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 14:36 Comments || Top||

#11  B-A-R: Relax, buddy. LH was responding in a friendly way to a comment and using his famous shorthand as a prop.
Posted by: Michael || 11/05/2003 15:30 Comments || Top||

#12  Out of the mouths of babes. Kids are uber-cool... If only the various indoctrination machines would have a massive and simultaneous meltdown... Teach them the tools to analyze and discriminate, not the thoughts themselves. Sigh.

Clean unvarnished fact... awesome, kid!
Abby rulez.
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 16:16 Comments || Top||

#13  In some ways, I think that may have been the most powerful American speech since Gettysburg.

Yeah... pretty good...

But does it compare to "WE START BOMBING IN TEN MINUTES"

Now that changed the world.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 16:59 Comments || Top||

#14  "... We begin bombing in five minutes." was indeed a powerful comment, but I think that was more in terms of its shock value than as a motivational speech.
Posted by: Dishman || 11/05/2003 18:31 Comments || Top||

#15  You're right Dishman. Altho I think it might have motivated a few folks in Omaha.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 20:16 Comments || Top||

#16  I still get chuckles out of that line.
Posted by: Anonymous-not above || 11/05/2003 22:01 Comments || Top||

Middle East
Peace Brigade member sues Israel
Hat tip LGF
Tel Aviv—Canadian Member of the 2D Farces Peace Brigade member political activist Reck Desh Mustafa Henaway testified in a Tel Aviv court yesterday he was the victim of racial profiling by Israeli police when they detained him for 30 hours last month without producing an arrest warrant. The testimony was part of a hearing in a $6,700 suit Desh Henaway has launched against the government of Israel. The 24-year-old political science major at York University accuses Israeli security authorities of false arrest, negligence and causing him emotional stress. "Because of my ethnic background, I was clearly singled out and targeted," said Desh Henaway, who spoke with the help of a Hebrew translator. "I looked like the archetype suicide bomber."

Desh Henaway was born in Canada to parents who immigrated from Egypt. Attorney Shamai Leibowitz said yesterday’s proceedings marked the first time a foreign anti-humanitarian worker had sued the Israeli government for false arrest and emotional abuse during questioning. The government plans to respond formally to the accusations within 45 days. Henaway arrived in the country July 8 as a volunteer for the Peace Brigade International Solidarity Movement, a group that brings in foreign nationals — mostly from North America and Europe — who agree to serve as "human shields" to protect Palestinian civilians in the West Bank and Gaza from the Israeli army. Israel views Peace Brigade International Solidarity Movement Supporters of evil volunteers as a band of meddlers who make the army’s job more difficult by inserting themselves in the middle of a war zone.
And trying to help the Jews get slaughtered.
Henaway spent most of his time in the West Bank city of Jenin, escorting Palestinians who were breaking curfew in an area known as a beehive of militant activity. On Oct. 14, Israeli police and soldiers forced him to leave the West Bank, declaring the Palestinian village in which he was staying a "closed military zone." The following day, as Desh Henaway and two colleagues boarded a taxi in northern Israel, police appeared and took the Canadian into custody after noticing his visa had expired. "They just pulled up and said that I looked suspicious," he said.
"Y'ain't from around here, air yew?"
Over the next day, Desh Henaway was interrogated by agents of Israel’s Shin Bet security service as well as police, who accused him of involvement in terrorist activities. Desh Henaway said his Israeli minders used demeaning insults like "Arab dog," but he wasn’t physically abused. Desh Henaway, a Toronto native, was released Oct. 16 but ordered to leave the country by today.
"Get the hell out and don't come back!"
Yesterday’s court proceedings were held to gather his testimony before his departure. Leibowitz, who usually defends international activists against Israeli efforts to deport them, said Desh’s Henaway’s suit could set a precedent that would force authorities to treat the activists differently. "Dozens of them are arrested, and here is a guy who decided to sue, and not just take this abuse and go back to his country," he said. At yesterday’s hearing, government attorney Yariv Ligumsky tried to expose inconsistencies between Desh’s Henaway’s testimony and an affidavit he signed.
Posted by: Atrus || 11/05/2003 10:59:18 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [232 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Next time, make him a Caterpiller Hood Ornament...
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 11:06 Comments || Top||

#2  "after noticing his visa had expired"
No harm no foul on the Israelis--wish we'd start enforcing our visa/immigration laws like that!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 11/05/2003 11:17 Comments || Top||

#3  [P]olice... took the Canadian into custody after noticing his visa had expired.
There you go--doesn't look like your lawsuit has any legs.

[H]e wasn’t physically abused.
"They didn't turn me into a newt!"
Posted by: Dar || 11/05/2003 11:21 Comments || Top||

#4  "I looked like the archetype suicide bomber."

Your honor, the State of Israel rests its case.
Posted by: john bragg || 11/05/2003 11:33 Comments || Top||

#5  1) Steal his Canadian passport
2) Replace it with a faked Syrian passport and a couple of others, including a real Yemeni passport.
3) "Discover" that the Yemeni is the only valid one
4) Ship his ass to Yemen. Let them worry about him.
Posted by: mojo || 11/05/2003 11:37 Comments || Top||

#6  "inconsistencies between Desh’s Henaway’s testimony and an affidavit he signed." You mean he lied? Why do the Israelis put up with these people? They are a security threat and overtly aid terrorism, kick them to the curb. And kick this guy twice.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 11/05/2003 12:01 Comments || Top||

#7  "They didn't turn me into a newt!"
Is he bragging, or complaining? If he doesn't like his treatment, they can always give him another. Maybe he can be an organ doner following the next Palestinian bombing. He seems to like to "volunteer".
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 12:02 Comments || Top||

#8  If he's complaining about this, he should go to Iran. They treat Canadians really well over there.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 14:23 Comments || Top||

N. Korean nuclear efforts looking less threatening
So much for Juche, the "single-hearted unity" and the "steel-strong will".
A year after North Korea provoked a crisis with the United States by admitting a secret effort to make weapons-grade uranium, U.S. officials say the program appears to be far less advanced than diplomats had feared.
They must be eating all the powerplant hamsters.
Intensive international monitoring and North Korean ineptitude have significantly slowed efforts to build a plant to produce highly enriched uranium, says a State Department official involved in U.S. attempts to stop the spread of nuclear weapons.
North Korean ineptitude? Send Kimmie down! He’ll fix it! He can fix anything! He’s like the Bob the Builder of North Korea!
A U.S. intelligence official says the CIA, which has conducted extensive surveillance of North Korea, is "not certain there even is" a uranium-enrichment plant. He says North Korea may have overstated its capability as part of a strategy of "bluff and bluster to extract concessions from the United States."
Could this be why we’re basically laughing at them?
If it turns out that North Korea’s uranium production is not advanced, it could be much easier to work out a new deal to end the North’s bombmaking efforts. Though North Korea is believed to have enough fuel for two to eight nuclear weapons, those weapons would use plutonium derived from a long-acknowledged nuclear complex at Yongbyon. The reason it’s still unclear whether there is a uranium program is that such efforts are difficult to monitor. Plutonium programs, however, emit krypton gas that can be measured from the atmosphere.
Krypton? So I guess the Superman option’s out...
"I would find this report encouraging" because it would indicate the North’s nuclear threat is less grave than portrayed, says Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee.
That’s if you trust the CIA.
Experts say it is possible some U.S. officials exaggerated the extent of the uranium program to torpedo a 1994 U.S. agreement with North Korea that traded energy aid for a freeze on nuclear development. Bush administration hard-liners had been trying to end the agreement in hopes of overturning the isolated, totalitarian regime. Following North Korea’s admission that it was trying to develop a uranium-enrichment capability, the administration stopped shipping fuel oil to North Korea. The regime responded by kicking out United Nations inspectors from the Yongbyon complex, where work had been frozen under the agreement. North Korea reactivated the complex after the inspectors left.
Broke the locks and turned the lights on maybe?
But that effort, too, appears less advanced than some had feared. "Whatever they are doing appears constrained," says David Albright, president of the Institute for Science and International Security, a think tank focused on nuclear issues. He says North Korea has not even tried to finish a reactor near Yongbyon that could produce 10 bombs’ worth of plutonium a year.
Because maybe...they can’t?
Hopes for a new agreement rose last week after North Korea tentatively agreed to attend new talks in China on the nuclear issue. The United States and North Korea’s neighbors are pressuring the regime to end its weapons program. U.S. officials caution that it is impossible to know for sure what the North Koreans have been up to since they withdrew from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty this year. The regime is notoriously opaque, and it’s hard to detect uranium enrichment without having spies inside the country.
Maybe we can get to Kimmie’s poofy hair dresser?
But some efforts to stymie the program have been successful. Last April, Germany blocked North Korea’s purchase of 200 tons of aluminum tubing suitable for vacuum casings for centrifuges. Twenty-two tons made it on board a French ship in Hamburg but was seized in the Suez Canal. "Our attempts to heighten awareness have had an impact," the State Department official says.
...and makes for great stuff in KCNA.
Kenneth Quinones, a former Korea intelligence analyst at the State Department, says North Korea has obtained components but has not built a plant housing the thousands of centrifuges required to enrich large amounts of uranium. "They have pieces of the puzzle," he says. Others say North Korea could have obtained only a "starter kit" for uranium enrichment from Pakistan, but not technical expertise.
"Nuclear Bomb Starter Kit"! New! From ACME!
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 10:46:29 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [254 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Message to the Peoples Republic of China:

Japan is seriously considering rearming because you have not stomped on your client North Korea. North Korea doesn't scare the US with their nuclear threats. Don't play poker with W.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 11:13 Comments || Top||

#2  "Experts say it is possible some U.S. officials exaggerated the extent of the uranium program to torpedo a 1994 U.S. agreement with North Korea that traded energy aid for a freeze on nuclear development. Bush administration hard-liners had been trying to end the agreement in hopes of overturning the isolated, totalitarian regime"

So it's our fault? Who'da thunk it?
Posted by: Frank G || 11/05/2003 12:48 Comments || Top||

#3  Frank, when the NK came out and announced that they had continued their weapons development program, didn't that torpedo the treaty right there?
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 13:58 Comments || Top||

#4  Seems to me this article has the cart before the horse. I thought NKor announced they were building nuclear weapons, THEN Bush cut the oil shipments, not the other way around. Also, I have a hard time believing anything that comes out of the State Department intelligence facility. I've seen too many mistakes and gross blunders that group of blind donkeys have made. Senator Bayh may also be trying to get a few soft digs into Bush over this, which is why it's being released. I also would wait until I had confirmation from NIMA and perhaps DIA before I believed any of this.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 18:30 Comments || Top||

#5  SH - should've posted the (/sarcasm)?
Posted by: Frank G || 11/05/2003 19:43 Comments || Top||

#6  Are we even sure that the Norks have an up to date
Periodic Table of the Elements?

(Not the one that ends at 92)
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 20:42 Comments || Top||

#7  Here's my take on this.
Posted by: Ptah || 11/05/2003 22:19 Comments || Top||

Africa: Southern
BBC: Another African country studies Bob’s agricultural model for prosperity
EFL from Worldwire
Remember the Scottish farmer who got kicked out of Zimbawe but moved to Zambia. (from a story by The Scotsman - which explains explains the interest in an expatriot Scot) Well he’s lucky he didn’t move to Namibia.
A group of black farmers in Namibia says it will occupy 15 white-owned farms next week. It says the government’s policy of purchasing white-owned farms is moving too slowly in correcting unequal patterns of landownership.
We hear that other countries are getting free grain from the UN; why shoud we be left out?
A government spokesman said it would not tolerate any land invasions and urged landless people to be patient.
We want to adopt a more cautious approach to screwing up our country.
About 4,000, mostly white, commercial farmers own almost half of Namibia’s arable land. Agriculture, mostly beef exports, is Namibia’s second-highest export earner after mining. The leader of the Nambia Farm Workers Union denied that he was going to copy the land invasions in Zimbabwe, saying his group would be peaceful. "There will be no damage to property or occupying of anybody’s house," said Alfred Angula.
"We're just gonna throw the owners out and grab their stuff for ourselves."
But why are you guys collecting all the tires?
"We are only interested in our share of the boodle the sharing of our motherland and its resources. We will not kill anybody, because we know war and have seen blood."
Whoooosh - the sound of all foriegn investment leaving the area.
Namibia’s President Sam Nujoma is a close ally of Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe and last year Prime Minister Theo-Ben Gurirab said he would increase the pressure on white farmers to sell their land.
My friend Bill Clinton has recommended a man named Anthony J. Pellicano. He has a reputation fro persuasiveness.
Namibia’s Government is committed to the principle of "willing buyer— willing seller" — which means no-one is forced to sell up, but if they do the state gets first refusal.
We refuse to let you sell - unless it is to my wife.
Zimbabwe also followed this principle for 17 years after independence in 1980.
Did quite a bit of this African stuff hit the fan after Jesse Jackson returned to Bill Clinton and announced that we needed to back this Charles Taylor guy?
A senior official in the ministry of lands, resettlement and rehabilitation, Frans Tsheehama, said the government would not allow any illegal land occupations. "Let us be patient and follow the adopted policy of land reform. I do not see us, as a country, winning via any other route," he said. Whites make up 6% of the Namibian population and about one third of them are descended from German settlers.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 9:46:19 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [239 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Looks like I'll have to double down in the Famine Pool. Zimbabwe AND Namibia...
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 10:13 Comments || Top||

#2  Not just Namibia, but Kenya seemed to be using Bob's playbook as well. And I won't be surprise if South Africa uses it as well.
Posted by: BigFire || 11/05/2003 10:17 Comments || Top||

#3  Anyone still think that the U.S. should be pouring more money and affort into Africa for whatever reason?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 10:58 Comments || Top||

#4  Australia and the US should allow Visa's to all white farmers in Africa that want to emigrate. Get them out now when perhaps they can sell their land and leave alive. It doesn't take a genious to see the trends. The continent is sinking. Hell I would open up visa's to all of subsahara Africa (except Nigerian scammers and those with diseases). African immigrants to the US tend to be very hard workers, we could use them, if they can make it to North America. It might help diffuse some of our own black/white issues.

Bomb-a-rama, yes, I think we still should be putting effort into Africa. In the US we are good and helpful people and we will be drawn in to stop the bloodshed and horror despite knowing better. A little money now can save ten times that later as well as the lives of Marines and soldiers later.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 11:09 Comments || Top||

#5  Why do these country sign a suicide pact with political correctness? Anyone can see that the collective system of farming does not work. The only reason that the PRC is not starving is because they have mixed collective and free market farming. The Soviet Union NEVER got it working. But hey they might have better luck.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 11/05/2003 11:26 Comments || Top||

#6  In the US we are good and helpful people and we will be drawn in to stop the bloodshed and horror despite knowing better.

It's one thing to be good and helpful, but quite another to be gullible and stupid. After having poured so much money into Africa only to see it still plagued by recurring problems, it doesn't make sense to keep on doing what hasn't worked.

A little money now can save ten times that later as well as the lives of Marines and soldiers later.

Africa has proven to be a money-losing proposition. It consists of nothing but tribes looking to shaft other tribes, hardly a reason to send in armed forces of any kind.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 11/05/2003 11:44 Comments || Top||

#7  Bomb-a-rama, I agree with you 100% yet still think down the road, when starving children and death are shown on the news 24/7 the people in the US will think with their hearts instead of their heads and the US will get dragged in as we were in Somalia.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 12:53 Comments || Top||

#8  If they don't want the farmers, we'll take them. We have plenty of farming land and blacks aren't allowed to just take the land.

And I don't care about the " It's African American" whiners who might object to me calling them black. Political correctness isn't something I participate in.
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 14:00 Comments || Top||

#9  Charles, I agree 100%, thus my visa idea. Unfortunately it would create a brain drain of sorts throughout Africa but it would benefit the US and get these people out of harms way.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 15:34 Comments || Top||

#10  Seriously, these idiots never learned that "kill the kulaks" is a bad idea?
Posted by: someone || 11/05/2003 15:52 Comments || Top||

#11  I think Africa has a shorter window of American attention than many would believe.10-15 years down the road as the first large chunk of baby boomers retire and put a heavy strain on US budget,the liberal political class are going to have to choose between helping Africa or funding liberal programs in the US,they will no longer have option of both.Once the liberal political class figures out that if they want to win elections there are no voters in Africa,their interest in Africa will vanish and so will media coverage.The consevative political class sees no compelling National Security Interests in subsaharan Africa.And the American people after a quarter century of pleas for aid will be deaf to any new cries.
Posted by: Stephen || 11/05/2003 16:07 Comments || Top||

#12  It appears most African mobocracies are drunk on Marxist dogma. I fail to see how give aid, except for privately funded famine aid, will do Africa any good.

They need to ween themselves off the bottle of Communist propoganda and let people/markets fix their social problems.
Posted by: badanov || 11/05/2003 17:39 Comments || Top||

Latin America
BBC - UN votes against US Cuba embargo for 12th consecutive year
The United Nations General Assembly has voted overwhelmingly for an end to the United States’ 40-year-old economic embargo against Cuba.
I love it when the the UN votes to regulate our economic activity with another sovereign nation.
The vote marks the 12th consecutive year that the assembly has called for an end to the blockade.
Must be a blockade of stalth ships. I sailed to and past Cuba multiple times and never ran into the wall of floating steel.
Only three nations voted against the motion - the US, Israel and the Marshall Islands. Two others abstained.
I think trade with Cuba should be mandatory for all nations that voted for this resolution - except our coalition of three. Jam a cubano between your teeth, immediately. Fire it up for Fidel. Heres a handfull to get you started. Don’t be shy. Here’s some for the kids too.
"The blockade is a cruel and absurd policy that finds no support within or outside the United States," Cuban Foreign Minister Perez Roque said.
Let us immediately make all cruel and absurd policies illegal. All you Islamic Republics and wannabes sign here.
"The crime being committed against Cuba today could very well be committed against any other country tomorrow."
Do I committ a crime against Food Lion? I buy all my groceries at Wallmart - just trying to support the undocumented cleanup crew.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 8:46:52 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [233 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I agree the US should change policies but since there is no blockade these tools undermine their own story.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 9:00 Comments || Top||

#2  US counter-argument:

1) Castro steps down - no more embargo.

2) We repeal head-of-state assassination act - kill Castro & his supporters (operation smoke a cuban) - no more embargo.

3) None of your business UN - go f*ck yourself.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 9:48 Comments || Top||

#3  This embargo makes NO sense--except in the context of political pandering by BOTH parties to South Florida Cuban-Americans. Now, however there's quite a few midwestern congressmen getting pressured to open up agricultural trade with Cuba in OUR national interest. To enforce the Cuban embargo while free trading with China is the height of hypocrisy. If the Cuban people interacted with Americans-and our way of life-it would all be over for Fidel. By isolating them and not engaging--we've done a disservice to the Cuban people.
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 11/05/2003 11:00 Comments || Top||

#4  Jarhead, you forgot option 4) all of the above.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 11:03 Comments || Top||

#5  The embargo is cruel, eh. But repressing the natural yearning of the human spirit to live free is...

... oh, totally normal to the UN.

Forgot about that. Carry on.
Posted by: eLarson || 11/05/2003 11:35 Comments || Top||

#6  "Crime" against Cuba? Since when is refusing to trade with a country an international crime? Where is the international law specifying that a country MUST trade with another? The UN appears to be getting wierder and wierder all the time - when did they last do a reality check?
Posted by: rabidfox || 11/05/2003 12:21 Comments || Top||

#7  I am for keeping the situation where its at until I see Castro stop destabilizing every "free market" government in South America. A Reuters story indicates that I would be in the vast minority in Mississippi. Mississippi Rolls Out Red Carpet for Cuban Trade
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 12:22 Comments || Top||

#8  The sooner we open trade with Cuba the sooner the trial lawyers can destroy their economy.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 20:44 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Roberts says Dem strategy memo undermines 9-11 inquiry
Update to last night’s Post
Republican Sen. Pat Roberts said Democrats have undermined the inquiry he is leading into Iraq prewar intelligence by drafting a memo aimed at discrediting the Senate Intelligence Committee’s work. The Kansan is chairman of the committee. The memo was written by Democratic committee staff and wasn’t finalized or circulated among members of the committee, said the panel’s senior Democrat, West Virginia Sen. Jay Rockefeller.
Never saw it, nope, nuh huh....
Rockefeller acknowledged the document after news reports quoted excerpts from it. The memo spells out steps to make the committee’s inquiry irrelevant by setting up an independent commission, and in the process attempt to "castigate" majority Republicans. It suggested "pulling the trigger" on the plan "probably next year." Roberts said the memo stunned him.
someone that naive shouldn’t be in politics
"I am shocked! SHOCKED!"
He's about as stunned as I'm virginal. He's making his own political points.
"It’s like a personal slap in the face," he said. "I’m very frustrated by it. We cannot politicize the committee. No member of the intelligence community wants to come up and testify before a committee that is whipsawed by politics. In addition, once this becomes public, or more public, every intelligence agency in the world will take note of it. And quite frankly, I think this will give some comfort to terrorists. We have to put back together some semblance of a bipartisan committee."
I like the "comfort to terrorists" counterpunch... maybe he isn’t that naive...
Roberts and Rockefeller have been overseeing an often rocky review of intelligence on weapons of mass destruction that the White House used to justify the war on Iraq. The two men met Tuesday after Roberts learned of the memo. In a statement he issued afterward, Rockefeller dismissed the memo as "likely taken from a waste basket or through unauthorized computer access."
nice effort Jay - about as good as your FoxNewsSunday interview effort
He added: "The draft memo was not approved, nor was it shared with any member of the Senate Intelligence Committee or anyone else.
it was a secret, in fact nobody wrote it... it wrote itself
"Having said that, the memo clearly reflects staff frustration with the conduct of the Senate Intelligence Committee investigation and the difficulties of obtaining information from the administration."
"So, y'see, even though it wasn't signed off on, and thus didn't really exist, if it had existed, it woulda been because we're so frustrated widda Publican obstructionism..."
He said that exploring or asserting the rights of the committee’s Democratic minority doesn’t politicize the process. "The American people deserve a full accounting of why we sent our sons and daughters into war," Rockefeller said.
I seem to remember a couple votes you participated in, asshat
Democrats and Republicans alike have complained the White House, the CIA, the Pentagon and the State Department have been slow to respond to requests for interviews and documents. The White House missed a Friday deadline for complying, and while Roberts announced over the weekend the White House agreed to cooperate, he subsequently backed away and said he spoke too hastily. Roberts called on committee Democrats to repudiate the strategy outlined in the memo. "It’s a purely partisan document that appears to be a road map for how the Democrats intend to politicize what should be a bipartisan, objective review of pre-war intelligence," he said. "Instead, we should be focusing on how to make our country safer and how to improve our intelligence capabilities."
Agreed, and the White House needs to turn over all documents that don’t endanger efforts at improving nat’l security. The Dems will be on their heels with this memo, don’t help them out
Posted by: Frank G || 11/05/2003 8:44:27 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [245 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Remember, Rockefeller claims that his vote last October was influenced by the President's State of the Union speech from last January.

In other words, Rockefeller's a lying sack of excrement and a Democrat. (But I repeat myself.)
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 11/05/2003 8:57 Comments || Top||

#2  Roberts said the memo stunned him.

This guy is so moronic I can't believe he's a senator. When Roberts showed up to denounce alleged White House stonewalling in photo ops with Rockefeller, who's been partisan as all-git-out through the post-September 11 era, I wondered if he was a Democratic plant in the Senate.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 11/05/2003 9:53 Comments || Top||

#3  So much for splitting committees more or less evenly.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 11:02 Comments || Top||

#4  "I think this will give comfort to terrorists" Classic GOP smear tactic--if you question the administration--you're in bed with Osama. "Bipartisan"?! This from the party whose muse Ann Coulter compared bipartisanship to date rape?!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 11/05/2003 11:28 Comments || Top||

#5  Is this committee that is looking at the 9-11? If so they are looking at some interesting stuff. I was intrigued by the post last week: In first, U.S. voices assessment of WMD to Syria from Alaska Paul. The Middle East News article that was linked was incomplete unless you held a subscription so I wrote the issue off as Debka fodder. The I saw it echoed By Mark Alexander in townhall.com. So I looked at the person that was doing the testimony: LtGen(ret) James Clapper.

I found a more complete article: Official suggests Iraq hid weapons in Syria from the IHT (off of the NYT.) To demonstrate Clappers credibility I found two items:

1. a Mipt Link of Testimony that he made as Vice Chairman,
Advisory Panel to Assess Domestic Response Capabilities for Terrorism Involving Weapons of Mass Destruction in March 2001.
2. And a Rand link to minutes from the July 8th 2000 Panel to Assess the Capabilities for Domestic Response
to Terrorist Acts Involving Weapons of Mass Destruction

Clapper may be the real McCoy and he seems to have held positions of authority with respect to prevention of terrorist activity at least into the Clinton Administration.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 11:59 Comments || Top||

#6  NMM: Smear tactic? What's to smear? The Dems paint themelves for all to see as the active 5th column for the terrorists and you think this a good thing. The Dems would be just fine with the islamofascists winning as long as they got to be in charge of the gulag. Pull your head out...it's not good for the posture.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 11/05/2003 12:05 Comments || Top||

#7  I spent 26 years in Air Force imagery intelligence, from 1966 through 1991, with a short break in the middle. One of our most hated tasks was briefing Congressional delegations and their 'representatives'. We knew that if we said anything definitive about ANYTHING, it would be all over ABC, CBS and NBC two days later. The entire Congress (and their enormous staff) has a hard time keeping their pie hole shut about classified matters. I'd be very cautious about sharing anything really sensitive with them, too. Their reputation is the reason for that, not the fear of "exposing the President". To far too many elected officials, national security and national secrets are fair game in the day-to-day partisan one-upmanship that passes for statecraft in Washington.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 11/05/2003 12:34 Comments || Top||

#8  Both party's want to point fingers at who let the fox in the hen house. Both would not hesitate to use it for political gain. The Dems are just stupid enough to write it down and sent it out. Look for a low-level clerk to get axed over this. NMM, Rex has some good advice please take it.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 11/05/2003 12:37 Comments || Top||

#9  Rockefeller dismissed the memo as "likely taken from a waste basket or through unauthorized computer access."

Not even trying to deny the memo is authentic. Unusual tactic.
Posted by: Yank || 11/05/2003 15:34 Comments || Top||

#10  "the active 5th column for the terrorists"
"The Dems would be just fine with the Islamofascists winning"
Rex Mundi- If you truly believe this idiocy you've written I suggest you take yourself to the gynechiatrist!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 11/05/2003 17:32 Comments || Top||

#11  By God NMMs right. This country can't even afford a third column much less a fifth since the Reagan spending cuts. Fonts are just too damn expensive for the little people who are trying to squeeze by on a 20 pica column with a small sidebar.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 20:21 Comments || Top||

#12  And it's damn hard trying to stay on message when we drift over to typography.
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 20:22 Comments || Top||

East Asia
Japan Deported Alleged Terrorist
Japan last year deported a suspected al-Qaida member who was living in Tokyo as a house painter and is thought to have been trained at a terrorist base in Afghanistan, news reports said Wednesday. Naim Feroz, a 29-year-old Pakistani, was arrested in May 2002, was charged with violating Japan’s immigration laws and deported, Kyodo News and other Japanese media said, citing sources at Tokyo’s Police Department.
Pakistanis turn up in the oddest places.
At the time, he had been living in northeastern Tokyo and working as a house painter. A Tokyo police spokesman said on condition of anonymity that the man had been arrested and deported, but the spokesman could not confirm the suspect’s alleged connections to al-Qaida. The spokesman said Naim Feroz was a phonetic spelling of the man’s name, and it was not immediately clear if it was the correct spelling.
"Or even the correct name, he is Pakistani, after all."
According to Kyodo, police searched Feroz’s home after receiving a tip he had undergone training at an al-Qaida terrorist camp. Kyodo and other media said that during the search, they found documents linking him to the group and photos of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden. The reports said police also suspect the man may have been in phone contact with al-Qaida members in other countries during his stay in Japan. A National Police Agency official, Kunitaka Tomita, confirmed the arrest and deportation of Feroz and seven others. But he denied that authorities found evidence of an al-Qaida link. Earlier this year, domestic media reported that Japanese and U.S. security officials suspected a high-ranking al-Qaida member came to Japan in 2000 to raise funds and stayed until just before the Sept. 11 terror attacks.
Posted by: Steve || 11/05/2003 8:40:48 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [227 views] Top|| File under:

Middle East
More Road Kill in the Road Map
EFL for Debka
Despite his staunch loyalty to Yasser Arafat, Ahmed Qurei looks like suffering the same fate as his predecessor, Mahmoud Abbas
- and the guy before him Billy Martin -
being ground to dust by his boss, according to DEBKAfile’s Palestinian sources. To generate a semblance of order, Arafat placed Qurei at the head of a “caretaker government” at midnight of November 4, when the provisional emergency government’s 30-day term expired... PLO mouthpiece Saeb Erekat assured the media the “caretaker” appointment was only made to bridge the few days before a fully-empowered government is installed... Arafat dispatched an emissary
- this was necessary because Kaddoumi resides outside the PA territory -
to inform PLO hardliner Farouk Kaddoumi -
a terrorist bagman/spokesman/princeling and 1980s beneficiary of Soviet subsidies -
that he had been nominated his successor.
this whole thing is really pissing off the Euroslut foreign ministers because they keep talking about how they are encouraging the Arafish to fight terrorism
Posted by: mhw || 11/05/2003 8:37:51 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [241 views] Top|| File under:

#1  more debka salt -

so they indicate Abu ala will walk away quietly, like Abbas did. But Israelis seem to be "improving conditions on the ground" - presumably to support Abu Ala. What do they know that we dont?
Posted by: liberalhawk || 11/05/2003 11:44 Comments || Top||

#2  good question l-hawk

As you imply the IDF is pulling back from key cities and increasing the number of guest workers allowed.

That probably has nothing to do with who the next PM will be. It more likely has to do with deal worked out with regional PA security chiefs.
Posted by: mhw || 11/05/2003 12:34 Comments || Top||

#3  A deal with the PA security chiefs? Somebody tell Arafish so he can take credit!
Posted by: Charles || 11/05/2003 14:21 Comments || Top||

Latin America
Leadership Opportunities continue to open up at FARC
Colombian troops killed a regional rebel commander, the fifth guerrilla leader slain in less than a month, a top army general said Tuesday. Luis Alexis Castellanos Garzon of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, died in a firefight Sunday night along with another rebel in Ubala, 30 miles east of Bogota, said Gen. Reynaldo Castellanos, commander of the army’s Fifth Division. The army believes Castellanos Garzon led a 1999 ambush on an army column that left 36 soldiers dead. "We consider his death to be a major blow to the FARC," Castellanos told The Associated Press.
"We're glad he's dead. We hope he rots in hell."
Castellanos Garzon’s death follows that of four other guerrilla commanders in the Cundinamarca region, which borders the Colombian capital, Bogota. Gen. Reynaldo Castellanos said better intelligence and more cooperation from local villagers had helped the military efforts to track down guerrilla leaders.
Same thing happened to the Shining Path. Eventually the locals opted for a tasteful brick walkway.
Separately, Colombian anti-guerrilla forces shot dead the No. 2 leader of the FARC’s Arturo Medina unit, Luis Alberto Camacho Duarte, early Tuesday in the southwestern Narino province, the army said. The conflict, which pits two rebel groups against government forces and outlawed right-wing paramilitary factions, kills an average 3,500 people, mainly civilians, every year.
Two against one - that’s not fair.
Posted by: Super Hose || 11/05/2003 8:35:31 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [249 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Recruiting slogans:
Be all that you can be...a corpse.
It's not a Job...it's a death sentence.
Aim high.....they'll aim low.
The (very) few, the scared, the FARC.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 11/05/2003 11:12 Comments || Top||

#2  "Pension fund for survivors retirees at all-time high!"
Posted by: Dar || 11/05/2003 11:23 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Aussie wine elbows French aside in U.S
As vintners Down Under might tell their French rivals — vive la difference, mate. In a battle pitting their upstart Yellow Tail brand against vintage Bordeaux, Australian wine makers are elbowing past the French as
dominant exporters to a friendly U.S. market. Analysts attribute that reversal of fortune to the U.S. consumer's growing view of Australian wines as unpretentious and affordable. They are, in short, very un-French.
Mais oui, y'all...
The trend has been helped by patriotic Americans showing appreciation for Australia for backing the invasion of Iraq, while shying away from products from nations like France, which opposed the war. In terms of volume, Australia already had bounced France from second place among foreign wine suppliers to the U.S. market in the first quarter of 2003. Now Australian vintners are also on track over the next year or so to make more money from U.S. sales than their often haughty and higher-priced French rivals, trailing only California wines in popularity, said Rich Cartiere, publisher of the Wine Market Report.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:02 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [395 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Here's one of those new Aussie wine buyers right here. Good stuff. :)
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats || 11/05/2003 0:09 Comments || Top||

#2  I had some of the Yellow Tail Shiraz at a dinner party this past summer. Very good stuff!
Posted by: Mike || 11/05/2003 0:25 Comments || Top||

#3  Please please keep boycotting French wines! White Burgundies are bound to go down in price--more for me! Y'all can drink that Aussi swill--but if I was in a boycott France mood--I'd drink Italian pinot grigios--but I hear reds are a different animal
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 0:45 Comments || Top||

#4  While we are at it you could try Spanish Rioja wine
and of course Jabugo ham who is considered best in world. Ironically, for years the French had managed to block its exporting to most of the EU alleging concerns of porcine plague (harmless to humans but not to pigs), now its consumption is considered chic in the French upper classes. Warning: outside Spain it is not precisely cheap.
Posted by: JFM || 11/05/2003 0:51 Comments || Top||

#5  NMM: You seem to be as knowledgeable about Australian white wine as you are on other subjects, i.e. not very much!

Young, ready to drink Australian white wines are THE best in the world. They are so far ahead of the rest that for years I have drunk nothing else.
Posted by: Phil_B || 11/05/2003 4:13 Comments || Top||

#6  Unfortunately for us patriots, Yellow Tail (any varietal) has no actual wine taste: chemical extract and wood chips seem to be the primary flavor components.

For real cheap and unpretentious, though, there is Spain. Esp. what the more interesting importers are bringing over from there these days (no more 100-yr-old spineless Riojas).
Posted by: someone || 11/05/2003 4:54 Comments || Top||

#7  Well, I buy Aussie wines out of support and curiosity now and then but anyone who thinks that the overpriced(of course)French wines are better than our own domestic ones doesn't know what they are talking about.
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 8:04 Comments || Top||

#8  hmmm...didn't mean my above comment to sound derogatory towards the many terrific Aussie wines...was just saying that the French over rate themselves once again.
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 8:13 Comments || Top||

#9  French wines are like Mercedes Benzes--they're a good product, no question, but wildly overrated and overpriced. With a Benz or a French wine, about 25% of what you pay is a premium for the name brand vs. a comparable product from another supplier with less cachet.
Posted by: Mike || 11/05/2003 9:02 Comments || Top||

#10  "(harmless to humans but not to pigs)"

-JFM, maybe that's exactly why the phrogs were afraid of it. LOL!
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 9:43 Comments || Top||

#11  I had a nice well-priced Romanian wine this
past weekend. Having been in central and eastern
Europe a number of times. I new that you could
always get quality wines in country, but we
are now starting to see them on U.S. shelves.

This can only be good for competition.
Posted by: J.H. || 11/05/2003 9:44 Comments || Top||

#12  B: there are many overpriced French wines (pretty much anything from Bordeaux or Burgundy, for starters), but the best values on the lower end are also from frogland. (E.g. anything grenache-based brought over by one of the artisinal importers.)

It's really domestic wines that are overpriced: try finding a Californian wine with actual varietal & terroir character for under $10. Almost impossible -- the only decent ones are genericized chemically-treated fruit bombs. On the upper end, maybe a handful of domestics are worth even $50+/bottle, yet it seems any schmuck with a trendy location and cellar guy can, armed with the right Wine Speculator (er, Spectator) reviews, get away with charging $150+...

Australia's not all that different. I'd say NZ is the more interesting wine area. But weren't they weasels too?

That said, there's always Italy.
Posted by: someone || 11/05/2003 11:34 Comments || Top||

#13  Hmmm...I notice that you didn't list any labels..just generalities. Give me the name of one REALLY good French wine, under $10 wine, that doesn't have sulfates in it, and then we'll talk.

That said, I agree with you about Italy.
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 12:29 Comments || Top||

#14  http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/b-db-boycottfrance.shtml
Posted by: Greg || 11/05/2003 12:51 Comments || Top||

#15  B: I didn't list particulars because it all depends where you live, etc.: by their very nature these artisinal importers don't bring in a whole lot and any particular one won't distributed everywhere. But, for example, try if you can the 2001 Côtes du Forez "La Volcanique" by Odile Verdier and Jacky Logel. Gamay grown on volcanic soil, it has a wonderful stone-mineral undercurrent in its medium fruit. Couldn't be more different from Beaujolais. $9.

I don't know about sulfites, though, not having that allergy myself.
Posted by: someone || 11/05/2003 13:00 Comments || Top||

#16  It's really domestic wines that are overpriced: try finding a Californian wine with actual varietal & terroir character for under $10.

Blame marketing and vinters' ego for that. There are domestic bargains to be had, and not just California wines. You just gotta kiss a lotta frogs to find a prince, tho.
Posted by: Pappy || 11/05/2003 13:05 Comments || Top||

#17  Kissing frogs..lol! So true! Look, someone, the finest wines aren't going to be under $10. If they were so fine, the price would go up accordingly, no? So it's a dubious claim to be a wine "expert" of cheap wines.

All this talk caused me to open a $5.97 bottle of Australian Black Swan 2002 at lunch. Oh sure, it''s a little tinny at first..but it's smooth, mighty fine! Not bad for $5.97.
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 13:31 Comments || Top||

#18  oops...it's the Merlot.
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 13:32 Comments || Top||

#19  B: I'm not an expert at anything. There are good and bad wines at every price point, and interesting and uninteresting. There are dozens and dozens of good & interesting cheap Old World wines (I named one, as asked), and much fewer New World. Heck, it's true up and down the price spectrum -- a good $15 Rasteau (Rhone village) is IMO more interesting than pretty much any California syrah. And the inefficiencies in the distribution and marketing system keep things this way.

Put it this way: do you want to be Billy Beane, or Peter Angelos?
Posted by: someone || 11/05/2003 13:59 Comments || Top||

#20  Someone...I don't follow baseball...so your point was wasted on me.

Bottom line: There are PLENTY of good CA, Australian, Italian AND French wines....for all the reasons you stated above.

But using your own point...I see no reason NOT to boycott the French. I mean, where would you rather shop? Nordstrom's or Ann Taylor's? Both have good quality...but one has a bigger and better selection.

Meanwhile, I see no reason to kiss the frogs, in search of a prince.:-)
Posted by: B || 11/05/2003 14:34 Comments || Top||

#21  Mr Jarhead

My mother is french so I would be happy if you withdrew your comment.

To others:

The high price of French wines is key on their marketing strategy. If you want people believing you are the best bar none you have to put high price tags. The higher the price, the better a product will sell between sbobs and new rich.

Posted by: JFM || 11/05/2003 15:46 Comments || Top||

#22  The last time I checked the French weren't a race. Maybe you meant Jarhead was being Nationalist?
Posted by: whitecollar redneck || 11/05/2003 17:30 Comments || Top||

#23  I believe chauvinist is the apropos term.
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 17:55 Comments || Top||

#24  Oh,so we're not talking about racism. That word seems to have as many uses and definitions as the F word in some quarters.
Posted by: whitecollar redneck || 11/05/2003 18:04 Comments || Top||

#25  Guys:

Not so rough on our friend JFM. He's on our side.
Posted by: Mike || 11/05/2003 18:15 Comments || Top||

#26  JFM - the offer is still open (always will be, in fact) to start a fund to drag you over here repatriate you and restore your rights! Of course, Sabine may be riding the next wave and we can all celebrate together at the Statue of Liberty and/or Eiffel Tower!
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 18:22 Comments || Top||

#27  JFM - no offense to your mom but I won't withdraw my comment - so get over it. Maybe lighten up on the oregon chai at starbucks there wild man.

Whitecollar is right, the french are not a race (the only race they've been a part of is the race to drop their guns and run), otoh this is the first time I've been accused of being a racist, I'm so hurt, oh well, guess I'll just have to deal with it. For the record, I am a proud U.S. Marine, a pro-American, and maybe that also makes me a nationalist, if so, so be it. Find me repugnent and a racist if you wish because I'm not PC, I don't really care either way. Or, as we say in the Corps - F*ck you if you can't take a joke. BTW - .com, I'm pretty sure chauvinism is the act of being discriminatory toward women, I've never been accused of that one yet but the day's not over yet bro ;)

I think ethnocentric is the word your all looking for.
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 18:29 Comments || Top||

#28  I get pissy when people misuse terms that aren't deserved. No prob being Nationalist Jarhead, I'm one too.
Posted by: whitecollar redneck || 11/05/2003 18:36 Comments || Top||

#29  Whitecollar, I'm w/you. I am an unabashed Nationalist. However, Mike & .com say JFM's on our side, they seem to be straight shooters so I'll take their word for it & quit attacking our bro' JFM - so long as he doesn't taunt me a second time! ;)

Being tactful kind of sucks though - I had this great tie-in joke about pigs, truffles, and the French......
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 19:57 Comments || Top||

#30  Hey! I like pigs!
Posted by: Shipman || 11/05/2003 20:25 Comments || Top||

#31  And no drunken Irishman cracks as I resemble that remark.
Posted by: whitecollar redneck || 11/05/2003 22:29 Comments || Top||

#32  Chauvinism was coined from the French minister who was a total nationalist--has nothing to do with sexism
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/06/2003 0:07 Comments || Top||

Georgian vote heralds watershed
The former Soviet republic of Georgia was embarking on a new era Tuesday after veteran President Eduard Shevardnadze, blamed by voters for falling living standards, lost ground in a parliamentary election to a new rising star and possible future president. With over half the votes from Sunday’s poll counted early Tuesday, Shevardnadze’s For a New Georgia bloc had the most support of any single party with 24.3 percent of the vote, but was set to be outnumbered in parliament by opposition parties who between them took over 70 percent of the vote. The result was a snub to Shevardnadze, the 75-year-old former Soviet foreign minister who has dominated politics in Georgia for nearly three decades and who is retiring when his current term ends in 2005. Harvard-educated opposition leader Mikhail Saakashvili, whose party came a close second in the interim results on 23.4 percent, is now well-positioned to stake his claim to the presidency in two years’ time. Saakashvili had formerly served as Shevardnadze’s justice minister but resigned last year after unsuccessfully trying to stamp out corruption among his fellow ministers and set up his own opposition party.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:01 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [224 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Corruption in a former Soviet Republic! I'm shocked.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono || 11/05/2003 16:46 Comments || Top||

Africa: East
Sudan launches offensive against Darfour rebels
Sudan has launched an offensive against rebels in the west. The Sudanese military, confirming earlier rebel claims, reported that combat jets and helicopters struck positions of the Sudanese Liberation Army in the Darfour province. It was the first military operation by the Khartoum regime in the two-month-old ceasefire. Sudanese military spokesman Gen. Mohammed Bashir Suleiman said the air strikes were meant to stop an effort by the SLM/A to improve its positions in Darfur. The SLA captured several cities during battles in the summer of 2003. "We noticed suspicious movements of the armed groups belonging to the Justice and Equality group in an area not covered by the ceasefire signed in Abeche with the SLM/A," Suleiman said on Sunday. "The issue was resolved militarily through air strikes."
After all, that's what ceasefires are for...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:01 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [239 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Since the start of the civil war that began in 1983 -- and which pits the African South against the Arab North -- the Khartoum governments on countless occasions have broken cease-fires with the southerners. Now the riverain Arabs who dominate the Sudanese political scene are pulling the same trick on an incipient rebel insurgency in Western Sudan. This time with the help of abbala (camel) and baggara (cattle) Arab tribes the Sudanese military are determined to crush the Islamized Africans from the Fur, Berti, Zaghawa and other tribes.

And to think, with just a handful of helicopter gunships and a dozen mercenaries the civil war in the south would have been over years ago, and in the present case the Sudanese military would turn tail and run like hell from Darfur.
Posted by: Anonymous || 11/05/2003 8:55 Comments || Top||

A record for gab...
Yesterday we set a record, with 402 comments on 62 rants...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 11/05/2003 00:01 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [234 views] Top|| File under:

#1  And I wasn't done :) Rantburg rules!
Posted by: NotMikeMoore || 11/05/2003 0:27 Comments || Top||

#2  Something NMM and I can agree on!

Posted by: Ptah || 11/05/2003 5:05 Comments || Top||

#3  It just wouldn't have been possible without the efforts of Rantburg's dedicated and ever-vigilant trolls! [smiles, wipes a tear of emotion from eye]
Posted by: Bulldog || 11/05/2003 7:06 Comments || Top||

#4  Am I pleased or frightened?
Posted by: Matt || 11/05/2003 8:49 Comments || Top||

#5  Does Murat get a plaque or something?
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 11/05/2003 9:54 Comments || Top||

#6  "Does Murat get a plaque or something?"

-Chuck, I think he gets the coveted bronzed fork and spoons.....
Posted by: Jarhead || 11/05/2003 10:41 Comments || Top||

#7  How 'bout a spork? I hate sporks.
Posted by: Dar || 11/05/2003 10:59 Comments || Top||

#8  Send Murat a nice Troll Doll...
Posted by: tu3031 || 11/05/2003 11:02 Comments || Top||

#9  Did Murat post yesterday? He is always a big draw.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 11/05/2003 11:09 Comments || Top||

#10  And I wasn't there! Lameness runs deep.
Posted by: Lucky || 11/05/2003 12:03 Comments || Top||

#11  I think today we are going to beat yesterday's record. 31 rants, 181 comments and it's not even 12:00 pm where I am.
Posted by: Rafael || 11/05/2003 12:03 Comments || Top||

#12  Actually, it was 406 comments.
Posted by: Atrus || 11/05/2003 13:23 Comments || Top||

#13  Na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye!

And another one bites the dust...
Posted by: .com || 11/05/2003 17:57 Comments || Top||

#14  another one bites the dust

You mean Fred's budget??? :)
Posted by: Rafael || 11/05/2003 18:54 Comments || Top||

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Meet the Mods
In no particular order...
Steve White
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Two weeks of WOT
Wed 2003-11-05
  Iranian role in Hakim assassination?
Tue 2003-11-04
  Pakistan Army Kills Two Al-Qaida
Mon 2003-11-03
  Soddies shoot it out with Bad Guys in downtown Mecca
Sun 2003-11-02
  13 dead as US helicopter shot down
Sat 2003-11-01
  Pak opposition leader arrested on treason charges
Fri 2003-10-31
  Ivory Coast Uncovers Assassins Plot
Thu 2003-10-30
  Izzat Ibrahim running al-Qaeda ops in Iraq
Wed 2003-10-29
  New JI leader on trial in Jakarta
Tue 2003-10-28
  Bob has a stroke?
Mon 2003-10-27
  Red Cross rocketed in Baghdad
Sun 2003-10-26
  Wolfowitz hotel rocketed in Baghdad
Sat 2003-10-25
  Jordan charges 108 with terrorism
Fri 2003-10-24
  Residents foil bomb plot in Baghdad burb
Thu 2003-10-23
  Sudan refuses to close down Hamas and Islamic Jihad offices
Wed 2003-10-22
  1 killed, 2 critical in premature Nablus car boom

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