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2003-11-05 Middle East
Orson Scott Card: "A Visit to Israel"
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Posted by Aris Katsaris 2003-11-05 2:21:23 PM|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [321 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 I keep thinking that the purpose of the wall is not for security per se, but focus. If Isreal succeeds in getting the paleo dimbulb bombers to focus attack on the wall, rather than the buses and cafes, then the wall is a success. And as long as Fatah and Hamas can blow up The Wall, they are winners within the rest of Palestine. A 'flypaper' wall, if you like, way out in the desert where no innocents get hurt. Works for me. Sharon's brilliant stroke.
Posted by john  2003-11-5 2:39:42 PM||   2003-11-5 2:39:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 actually the wall leaves lots of settlements on the other side. It takes one big swerve - so far - to bring in Ariel, the largest settlement (really a small city) Even Baraks peace offer envisioned keeping Ariel, IIRC (though in return the Pals would get some land from pre-67 Israel) Building a wall without covering Ariel would be incompatible with Sharons tough negotiating strategy I think.
Posted by liberalhawk 2003-11-5 2:44:37 PM||   2003-11-5 2:44:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Oddly enough, even as I have been a backer of Israel, I agree with this assessment to a degree. However, it is not likely that the U.S. will have to defend "Sharon's wall", as Israel has proven repeatedly that it can take care of itself where Palestinian terrorism is concerned, and is capable of doing much more if the situation calls for it.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2003-11-5 5:20:13 PM||   2003-11-5 5:20:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Frankly I've always thought the settlements were a chip that kept getting bid when the Paleos refuse to play nicely. The wall is the same - every time the Paleos f&*k up - they lose more future nation. For what it's worth they're acting like irrational animals, and trying to get on their good side is the last of my concerns. Take the leash of Sharon and play whack a mole with Arafat and Yassin.
Posted by Frank G  2003-11-5 7:12:02 PM||   2003-11-5 7:12:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 The wall is the same - every time the Paleos f&*k up - they lose more future nation.

But as OSC says this wall isn't viable as a border for either side -- in the place it's being built.

The drawing of the wall shows Sharon doesn't want any such "future Palestinian nation" to be built. And, again as OSC says, it makes it impossible for lasting peace to take place, even with Palestinians that wouldn't be "acting like irrational animals".

This isn't about getting one anyone's good side.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2003-11-5 9:42:27 PM||   2003-11-5 9:42:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 I agree with Aris.

What's worse is--the last thing Arafat wants is a country. It should be forced upon him; indeed, Sharon should have done this already. I don't say the border has to be that of '67--nor, unfortunately, am I real sure what to do about Ariel--but the Israelis would be clever to make do with the least possible land.
Posted by Brian (MN) 2003-11-5 10:03:42 PM||   2003-11-5 10:03:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 The future border (if any) will not follow '67 or rather '48 armistice lines. The fence is there to keep the murderers out. The settlements are there as bargaining chips and for potential final borders definition. As for the final borders - anybody's guess is fine.
Posted by marek  2003-11-5 11:19:33 PM||   2003-11-5 11:19:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Marek--

The problem with using the settlements as barganing chips is that that implies that Israel ought to bargain. That's a bad idea--it's crazy to ask Arafat to accept a country because it's clear he won't. Build the wall, don't bargain.

Aris, is this your position as well?
Posted by Brian (MN)  2003-11-6 8:34:30 AM||   2003-11-6 8:34:30 AM|| Front Page Top

12:32 alaskasoldier
08:34 Brian (MN)
07:53 B
04:42 Super Hose
04:08 Bulldog
04:01 Bulldog
00:12 NotMikeMoore
00:07 NotMikeMoore
23:56 NotMikeMoore
23:52 Uncle Joe
23:51 Alaska Paul
23:46 Grunter
23:46 NotMikeMoore
23:40 NotMikeMoore
23:36 Bomb-a-rama
23:34 NotMikeMoore
23:30 NotMikeMoore
23:29 Mike Kozlowski
23:22 Dev
23:19 marek
23:15 NotMikeMoore
23:04 NotMikeMoore
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22:55 NotMikeMoore
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