Back to the house. Get to work. Call up browser. Learn that Howard Dean temporarily called himself a âmetrosexual.â Shudder. Do they have that on tape? Lee Atwater would have the commercial in production already: Split screen. On the right, Bush in flight suit, walking on the deck, waving, giving the thumbs up. On the left, Dean in a loop: âIâm a metrosexual. Iâm a metrosexual. Iâm a metrosexual.â Nothing more.
Tagline: Bush. He doesnât moisturize. He doesnât tweeze. And he never had a pedicure.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 12:57:32 PM ||
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"Metrosexual" is a term recently coined to describe urban men who are straight but in touch with their feminine side. They pamper themselves with expensive clothes, haircuts, cuisine, etc.
A caller to Rush Limbaugh's show mentioned British soccer star David Beckham and actor George Clooney as good examples.
A great lifestyle if you wanna go clubbing with supermodels but not the kind of image that sells in the "Red States". Also, it's corny of Dean to call himself "metrosexual". As Rush's caller also said, it's like describing yourself as a "yuppie" back in the '80's. Uncool.
I think that Edwards guy is probably more "met" anyway.
#4
--"Metrosexual" is a term recently coined to describe urban men who are straight but in touch with their feminine side. They pamper themselves with expensive clothes, haircuts, cuisine, etc.--
#5
Edwards!!! a Metrosexual?! First of all he'd have to live in an urban area and Raleigh/Durham NC sure as HELL doesn't qualify! As one of the the token Demoncrats on Rantburg--and one of his constituents--I'm mad as HELL at him--he will cost the Dems a Senate seat--the race will be between Richard Burr R-Winston-Salem and pencil-necked Erskin Bowles--who will be about as popular as Michael Dukakis in NC (Liddy Dole trounced him) The only nice thing I can say about him is that he got rid of that Jesse Helms clone/pig farmer whose name escapes me in my apoplectic rage--I predict Richard Burr will be the next Senator from NC thanks to this dimwit! LOL
#7
Well, Shipman if you lived "Down East" in NC you'd know how Duplin Co has more pigs than people and the waste lagoons--which ruptured during Hurricane Floyd have made people's lives a living Hell--but don't worry--NC has two parties--the GOP and the Republicrats who are only worried about business interests--there really is no Democratic party here that I recognize...so free enterpirse is given a free hand
#8
The pig's really f*ck up the rivers there to. The Neuse river in that area has what's called Fisteria outbreaks, basically fish die in unexplainable droves from this. A lot of the DNR folks thinks it's from the pig waste leaking into the water.
#10
I sure do NMM. My wife used to work on the "Neuse River Response Team" up in New Bern - part of NCDENR. I was stationed at Lejeune. She did that gig for about three years. The pigs were suspected of the fisteria problem. Poor damn menhaden fish died like it was going outta style from that crap (no pun intended). They still haven't been able to formally connect it to the pigs but they're pretty sure. Too much adds up. Anyways, one of the biggest bears in NC was shot out back of a pig farmers house.....it was gluttoning itself on dead pig carcasses in this guy's dumpster.
Roughly 40,000 poor people have been dropped from the Oregon Health Plan this year because of their failure to make monthly premium payments, some as low as $6 a month. Six dollars a month, my god how are they supposed to afford it?
Advocates for the poor say the premiums are too expensive for some people and the government may have overestimated the ability of people to mail a check. Say what?
"Itâs an enormous barrier," said Ellen Pinney, director of the Oregon Health Action Committee. "Let alone the $6, there is the whole issue of writing a check or getting a money order, putting it in an envelope with a stamp and putting it in the mail to this place in Portland that must receive it by the due date." Yup, them po folks be too stupid to write a check.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 11:37:48 AM ||
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#1
Not trying to be snarky, but I bet most of those people manage to pay their cable bill every month...
#4
"Itâs an enormous barrier, ...there is the whole issue of writing a check or getting a money order, putting it in an envelope with a stamp and putting it in the mail to this place in Portland that must receive it by the due date."
Oh the Freakin' Humanity!!!
Then I think the state should hire more people to assist these folks with this incredibly difficult task. And have Oregon chnage it's name to France while they're at it.
#6
This has got to be the stupidist thing I have ever heard (And I live in Seattle...). Mailing a $6 check is too much? Do they want someone to wipe their ass for them too?
Like seafarious said - I bet they dont have a problem paying their cable bill so they can watch 'Bachelor' or 'Charmed'.....
#8
REALITY CHECK If these people are disenrolled--where will they go for care? They will go to the Emergency Room--and Guess Who is gonna pay for that? Anyone paying health insurance himself (self-employed and not on the corporate tit) knows something's gotta give with this system. And before y'all pile on I didn't say socialized medicine!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/30/2003 12:08 Comments ||
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Charge them $20.00 per month if their payment is more than one day past due. Allow their bookies and drug dealers to collect past due payments and keep half the difference. That should work just fine.
Posted by: B ||
10/30/2003 12:15 Comments ||
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#10
Well then, Mike, tell them to put down the crack pipe, get off their fat asses, put a stamp on an envelope, and send in the six freakin' bucks. It's not like we're asking them to go to work or something horrible like that!
#11
tu3031 I do happen to think they/everyone should pay--my point was--there ARE NO consequences for not paying the health insurance bill for these people!! They get sick--go to the ER--state/city/gov pays. It ain't like owning a car--where they're gonna come repossess it!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/30/2003 12:37 Comments ||
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#12
Well, Mike, then can the program, save the money on the beauraucracy that runs it, and let them go to the emergency room anyway, because that's the way they probably did it in the past. They can use the extra six bucks to buy an extra pack of smokes every month.
#16
Oregon better talk to the turkish family that lives on L12 per week and see how it's done.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/30/2003 13:51 Comments ||
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#17
Hypocrisy rules....make your innuendos about crack, and welfare and cable Tv and bookies and monthly support checks and tell me you all arent thinking about blacks....Ha....friggin hypocrits. You're just afraid to say it....I'm not and I am sick of this kind of crap from the "welfare" class....just telling it like it is.
At least I'm not advocating killing Muslims...Not that theres anything wrong with that....
Posted by: Tired of it ||
10/30/2003 14:16 Comments ||
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Lazy's lazy. Black's got nothing to do with it. All the bums I gotta trip over every morning going to work all seem to be of the Caucasian persuasion.
#19
tu--not to belabor the point, but you must work in a higher class area than I did...around here blacks got everything to do with it, the white folks worked and the blacks collected welfare and stayed drunk..twas as it ever was...and forever shall be. It's funny, you dont hear much about race wars anymore do you...seems that this Islam thing has taken precedent over the Man keeping the black man down. I guess now we know who the real enemy is...and it sure isnt the hip hop gangstah anymore. Peace
Posted by: Tired of it ||
10/30/2003 15:03 Comments ||
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#20
To Tired of It: weren't you told to take the Klan meeting elsewhere? What you wrote is garbage. Pure racist drivel. Now shut up and get out of here.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2003 15:44 Comments ||
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#21
To NMM and others (except for the racist dipwad Tired of It): folks at the bottom are poor for a variety of reasons. One of those reasons is a lack of structure and organization in one's life. As a doc I've seen this first-hand and it can wreck havoc on one's health.
It's also not very understandable by those who DO manage to keep themselves together enough to get up every day and go to work.
Social disintegration and turmoil has an important role in chronic medical problems, and is a significant barrier to compliance with medications, treatments, coming to the clinic, etc. I'm not surprised a bit (tap, tap, nope) that some folks can't get it together long enough to mail a premium check in every month.
So some sympathy here, people: the folks at the bottom generally don't want to be there, even if many times they don't understand why they are.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2003 15:47 Comments ||
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#22
I'll try to keep that in mind, Steve. I know there's lots of people with real problems who don't deserve the situation they're in and are doing the best they can to deal with it. But I also think there's a lot more lazy bastards around looking for a free ride these days then there used to be.
Posted by: Matt ||
10/30/2003 18:23 Comments ||
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#24
When you make it easier to take a free ride, people will do it. It's not just the "welfare" class, either. Talk to anyone that offers 'shareware' about how people take advantage. Think about Napster, and similar groups. Talk to people in the travel industry about the freeloaders and the cheats. We make it almost too easy to get "public assistance", and a certain class of people will not only take advantage, they'll push the limits as far as they can get away with.
Some people at the bottom of the income barrel truly cannot help themselves, and need someone to do the hard things for them. That could include everything from paying bills to literally wiping their butts, depending on the severity of their problems. The big problem for all of us is that the people who are paid to take care of these people make more money when they have a 'full' caseload. That means they don't try very hard to weed out the cheats. Having a full caseload also means they can't give the truly needy the help they need, because too much of their time is wasted on people who are just lazy, or are out for a free ride, courtesy of the taxpayer. It's a huge mess, and needs some concentrated effort to resolve, but the backlash would be too much for most politicians to stomach, so nothing gets done. Oregon's problem is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/30/2003 18:32 Comments ||
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#25
$6?
Jeebus. Just fire the check processing types and make it free. I bet economically it would be a wash.
#27
Love the racist accent Shipman--hope one day you actually have to pay the FULL cost of YOUR health insurance--but I bet you are gov or corp tittie and the actual impact hasn't hit you--my small biz costs--which the GOP always likes to trumpet as the way to go have tripled
This was just too bizarre to ignore...
A Turkish woman is about to give birth to her sixth set of triplets. Fatma Saygi, 28, from the Turkish province of Adiyaman and her husband Mehmet are already parents of five sets of triplets and the sixth set is due in just a matter of weeks. Fatma, who gave birth to her first three children at the age of 18, said: "We wanted children but we didnât really want that many. But Allah has always given us three at a time." The family of 17 lives in a two-room flat and on an income of about £12 a week, which Mehmet earns as a wedding singer. Murat, do a quick Google with the term "family planning", and start the ball rolling...
Posted by: Bulldog ||
10/30/2003 8:57:01 AM ||
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These people are fugitives from the law of averages. They should be playing the Powerball, since they seem to have a knack for beating the odds.
Posted by: Mike ||
10/30/2003 9:22 Comments ||
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...£12 a week...
For a family of 17. Maybe they should write a book on living on less than £2 a week. They will make a fortune, I tell ya, a fortune!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/30/2003 11:05 Comments ||
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£2 a week, er I meant per day. My mistake.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/30/2003 11:15 Comments ||
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Time long ago for these two to keep their clothes on.
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2003 11:31 Comments ||
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#5
Aren't there laws against littering?
Posted by: Fred ||
10/30/2003 11:33 Comments ||
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I was going to make a very tasteless joke linking runts, litters and certain Turks. I'm glad I didn't.
#8
Bulldog--uh family planning in the Bushies' America equates with promoting abortion--and we just can't have any of that--better to let the 3rd world breed like rabbits in the cuckoo evangelical Republican mindset. Who said irony was dead??!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/30/2003 12:11 Comments ||
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#9
Well, gee Mikey, I guess we should just round 'em up and put 'em in camps, huh?
And what does the Bush administration have to do with Turkish abortion laws, anyway?
Couldn't pass up the chance for a swipe, whether it made any sense or not, I guess.
#10
mojo--my point was about the Repooplican policy of not funding ANY international family planning organizations that EVEN MENTION abortion--more clear?
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/30/2003 12:18 Comments ||
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moore-y.. we are all waiting for you to come up with that evidence stuff, oh and while your at it come up with an even better idea.. you dont have one do you?
#12
Ever heard of the phrase "shutting the stable dor after the horse has bolted", NMM? You can plan a family w/o the option of abortion. Surgery, barriers etc. - you should look into these things sometime.
#13
NMM - since when did it become our responsibility to keep "modern" country inhabitants (Like Turkey, huh Murat) from having repeated litters that they can't afford to feed or educate??? Bush's policy is that if we decide to help out with the family planning these idiots can't manage on their own, that we choose not to advance abortion as a method. Cripes! Liberal handwringers can't get that straight huh? If we don't fund abortion on demand over all the planet, then we're not progressive or compassionate enough....asshats!
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2003 12:40 Comments ||
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NMM - read between the lines next time. What do you suppose Allah's stance on abortion is?
#15
OK dcreeper try: http://populationaction.org/resources/factsheets/factsheet_5.htm
Not wringing my hands--I just find it hypocritical for the Rantbourgeoisie to be for this policy of trying to prevent abortion in the 3rd world, while at the same time decrying the fact that western civilization is being overrun by the dark hordes. --This policy is simply pandering by the GOP to the evangelical NUTZ that make up their core constituents! I think we should be encouraging ALL forms of birth control in the Third World including abortion.
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/30/2003 13:05 Comments ||
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#16
One of my dad's first cousins had nine girls in five pregnancies, and I thought that was unusual! At least her husband had a better chance of supporting them, being a (very successful!) farmer. I think this Turkish guy needs to find a more promising line of work, though - one that pays a tad bit better. There's a definite link between income and family size - and it's not country or race dependent.
NMM, abortion is nothing but an escape from responsibility. I refuse to spend my hard-earned income so some irresponsible dweeb can get rid of an "accident" that could have been prevented with just a tiny bit of forethought and a lot less foreplay. Trying to make this a Republican disaster only shows how willing you are to attack anyone that wants to increase the idea of personal responsibility.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/30/2003 13:12 Comments ||
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"policy of trying to prevent abortion in the 3rd world"
what part of not paying for that don't you understand? We aren't making the decision on whether any other country decides it's legal or allowed, we just don't want to pay for it.
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2003 13:24 Comments ||
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#18
Frank G read the article--it says even if they "refer to" "NOT PAY FOR " an abortion provider--that's why it's called the "Gag Rule"
OP--Your argument would be valid if people behaved rationally--but you think someone popping out their 8th kid in some shack has any sense of responsibility? I don't--I'd rather have them abort so I don't have to pay for their "mistake" for 18+ years as opposed to a one time deal!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/30/2003 13:55 Comments ||
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NMM:
Here, you illustrate the deep respect for human life which all illiberal utopian statists hold. You want to go 'round killing off all those bloody peasants in their shacks who don't fit your definition of "responsibility" or "worthiness." Kill off all the "unworthies" and "inferiors." Just like the great Margaret Sanger preached.
And they say there's no "culture of death."
Posted by: Mike ||
10/30/2003 14:45 Comments ||
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#21
Because YOUR religion sez so? HUH? And there'll be no toleration for others who don't believe the same? HUH? That view fits right in with the minarets crowd to me--just a different angle.
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/30/2003 17:11 Comments ||
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#22
NMM, Don't try to tie abortion to religion. I don't hold any religious beliefs, and find the idea of abortion repugnant in the extreme because it's a gross contradiction of basic morality. It's about the value that you place on individual human life, and whether you can justify deliberately ending a human life simply because its existence is an inconvenience to others.
#23
I think we should be encouraging ALL forms of birth control in the Third World including abortion.
Been there doing that. Got your back NMM.
Posted by: Uncle Bob ||
10/30/2003 19:58 Comments ||
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ALL forms? Late term abortion, national 'one child per couple' policies, enforced sterilization of females after n births, culling of breeding age individuals, inoculation with, and encouraging the spread of, viral and bacterial infections likely to cause sterility...?
#25
Fine Bulldog--they'll just send the "excess" Pakis to Britain like they've been doing for years--shame when the Empire's cuckoos chickens come home to roost! Any Rantbourgeois taking odds on Londistan vs Paristan? Which one will get to Sharia first?
#26
I don't usually side w/NMM on much but I'm w/him on this one. There are strong moral arguments against it and you've all made valid points.
I have a relative who had one, (and we're Catholic) it's not an easy decision and although I didn't personally condone it (and don't for my own personal life) I wouldn't deny her the right to the procedure. I believe NMM makes a good point especially regarding Paki-land & India. Yeah, that's what the world needs, more kids no one takes care of and don't get put up for adoption. Half the countries mentioned are already over populated to the nth degree (I've been to some - damn shit holes). If they want to have an abortion - that's on them. As far as Africa goes, if you can get them to put a condom on that would be a miracle. I think 1st term abortion needs to be an option for these people. I think we'd pay more in the long run when a lot of these jokers are wards of the state. Go ahead and send the flamers but knock off the personal attacks - debate me on the issue.
#27
Unfortunately,--and not a criticism of your view Jarhead--but these kids get born--and are sent to Madrassahs in Pakistan because their families have no $ for education, but the kind Saudi Wahhaabis have a free school for them to attend--I will NEVER forget seeing that on 60 minutes--8 year old boys chanting etc.
#28
NMM - I forgot about the Madrassah angle. However, what's the Paki view on abortion? I'd wager since their Muslim it would be a no go. The Indian gov't was paying guys to get vasectomies years ago.........
#30
Fine Bulldog--they'll just send the "excess" Pakis to Britain like they've been doing for years--shame when the Empire's cuckoos chickens come home to roost! Any Rantbourgeois taking odds on Londistan vs Paristan? Which one will get to Sharia first?
Bloody hell, NMM, can't you even keep to the thread of the argument for even one sentence?! So your answer to excess conceptions is to kill the little chanters before they learn to speak? Lovely.
Keep up the rabid anti-British crap, btw. It's a funny substitute for actual arguments, which you don't seem to have, and it reminds everyone what a unbalanced nut you really are...
Moodhy Al-Khalaf, moodhy_alkhalaf@hotmail.com
A Reuters report on the first Afghan woman to participate in a beauty pageant in 30 years splashed the following title: âAfghan Beauty Trades Burqa for Bikini.â Catchy title? Yes. But I can think of a few other appropriate adjectives: Offensive, superficial and downright repulsive.
That could have something to do with a lack of a sense of humor on your part. It could also stem from your determination to impose your provincial views on the rest of the world, most of which isn't interested in them...
What does this young women hope to achieve by her participation? Well, the report quotes the 25-year-old as saying: âI would like to make people aware that as Afghan women, we are talented, intelligent and beautiful.â Now, how parading half-naked on a stage can achieve that, I have no idea. Whatever happened to common sense and good old-fashioned hard work?
The "half naked" part kinda demonstrates the physical beauty part, doesn't it? Didja look? I thought so. A beautiful woman can also be a hard working woman. She can even possess a modicum of common sense...
Wouldnât the world know more about the intelligence, talent and even beauty of Afghan women if she made their plight known to the world by campaigning for their cause? By trying to unite the voices of Afghan refugees all over the world to stand in the face of their enemy? By fighting to represent Afghan people in the United Nations and Afghan children in UNICEF? I can think of a million ways other than a red bikini that would accomplish the recognition she is seeking plus some more.
This is a beauty contest, not a do-good contest. It's a mostly harmless passtime in which women compare their anatomies and their deportment, the prize usually being scholarships and good-will tours and the like. Since nobody'd ever heard of her before, and now they have, she'll actually be in a better position to be listened to, should she decide to join the horde of women who do make careers of "fighting to represent Afghan people in the United Nations and Afghan children in UNICEF." I might also point out that a certain percentage of those women who do indulge in "fighting to represent, etc." are harrassed by Islamist men and occasionally bumped off for doing precisely that.
Vida Samadzai never wore a burqa, not in the real sense anyway.
The artificial sense was probably enough for her...
I am not here to sound the call for wearing burqas or for not wearing them. What concerns me instead are the general principles underlying the idea of the Islamic hijab. A Muslim woman who wears her hijab out of free will and true belief would never turn her back on it or even consider âtrading it for a bikini.â It is when a person is forced to do something that they flee it as soon as they have a chance. Let me say it more bluntly as it relates to us Saudis: That is why when Saudi women leave the country, the first thing they do is discard their burqas/hijabs â some are discarded along with half their clothes as well.
I notice that Soddy men also have the habit of looking when they're out of the country. In some instances they have the habit of not only looking, but grabbing. Do you think this might indicate something lacking in Soddy culture? Besides good manners, that is...
That is also why our system of upholding morals is constantly being criticized for being too forceful.
I think the word we usually use is "repressive." Sometimes "oppressive."
Belief comes from within: You cannot force someone to believe, you can only guide and try to convince them. Any other form of âforceful persuasionâ is useless. Yelling at women to cover up will only work on streets within your borders. Punishing women who do not conform by dragging them to jail and fingerprinting them will only work in a country where you have the authority to do that.
And it won't work there indefinitely...
More important is the question of what we are trying to achieve. Is it geographically-based piety or authentic piety?
I believe it's called enforcing your beliefs on everyone around you.
Conviction, not coercion, is the only path to true faith. One must convince peopleâs minds and win their hearts in order to achieve any kind of authentic religious effect on people. The verses from the Holy Qurâan verifying this are many:
âLet there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error.â (2:256)
âInvite all to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious.â (16:125)
Moreover, one must believe that, in the end, only God can choose whom to guide: âIt is true thou will not be able to guide everyone whom thou lovest; but God guides those whom He will. And he knows best those who receive guidance.â (28:56)
Yes, we have a hijab rate of almost 100 percent, but we all know those figures are not as impressive as they sound. How many of the statistics would be the same if hijab were not compulsory here? Who knows? One thing is sure though â whatever statistic we end up with will be worth a lot more than the 100 percent we have today.
Assuming keeping your women in sacks is worth something, of course...
Quality not quantity is the essence of the issue. I guess what it all boils down to in the end is this: Who do you want to represent Islamic hijab and all the sanctity that comes with it? Women like Vida Samadzai or women who understand its true meaning and who will treat it with the respect it deserves?
I'll go with Vida, and with all the women who aren't convinced somebody else has the right to tell them what to wear.
There is a certain percentage of women who're perfectly happy to be hidden away from the world and treated as breeding stock. There's another percentage — I happen to think it's higher — who have enough confidence in themselves to be proud of their looks and willing to meet men on terms of equality. There's also a percentage whose thought processes revolve around getting laid without going much further. There are many gradations among these, and probably a few I've left out. There are equivalent groupings among men, and the percentages of both probably vary with the age of the participants and maybe with mood. One size doesn't fit all, unless your host is Procrustes.
The point Moodhy Al-Khalaf misses, and that the Muslim world misses consistently, is that dwelling on other people's sins, or the possibility that they might sin, takes your attention away from your own sins. In Western societies, everyone's free to make their own mistakes. They get guidance, they're controlled by their parents in decreasing degree as they grow to adulthood — but we're not free to kill them, no matter how much we'd occasionally like to. Minding one's own business seems to be a Western concept. We stopped killing heretics and apostates 300 or 400 years ago, for the most part. The Islamic world never gave it up, and because they didn't, they never developed the concept of individual liberty. Liberty often translates into nothing more than the freedumb to do what you want — but sometimes it translates into innovation and fresh thinking. We take the good with the bad with the naughty, not without argument, occasionally even with violence, but we remain with that conviction that we'll do as we damned well please and if you don't like it, tough nails.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
10/30/2003 23:28 ||
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Who the f*ck wrote this crap!? Moodhy Al-asswipe is just feeling guilty because he probably just got done stroking to her picture.
From Worldtribune.com
It seemâs that the foxâs relatives will run the chicken coop for a while. Anyone up for a trip to Saudi?
Saudi Arabia has awarded five companies a project to privatize airports which would be secured by the government. Two of the companies awarded a contract to operate a Saudi airport belong to the family of Al Qaida leader Osama Bin Laden.
The word "dumbass" pops to mind...
Western intelligence agencies said Al Qaida has been planning to strike Western aircraft that seek to land or take off from Saudi airports. Western security agencies have issued a warning for Americans and Europeans who intend to fly to and from the Saudi kingdom. Britain and the United States have warned that Saudi airports could be attacked by Al Qaida insurgents, Middle East Newsline reported. "There is credible information that terrorists have targeted Western aviation interests in Saudi Arabia," the U.S. embassy in Riyad said on Tuesday. "The Department of State warns U.S. citizens to defer non-essential travel to Saudi Arabia."
Saudi officials dismissed the Western alert and said the kingdomâs airlines would maintain its routine schedule. They said authorities have increased security in and around major Saudi airports. The Saudi awards were granted to at least two companies linked to the family of the Al Qaida leader. They were the Bin Laden Group and the Muhammed Bin Laden Co., named after the father of the Al Qaida chief. "The Civil Aviation Authority will seek to achieve broad private sector participation in running local and international airports by privatizing them, except for security operations," Saudi civil aviation chief Abdullah Rahimi said. Saudi Defense Minister Prince Sultan Bin Abdul Aziz has completed contracts with five Saudi companies to operate regional and local airports over the next three years. The contracts were said to have been worth $170 million. "The contracts covered the supply of technical manpower specialized in operation and maintenance of airports, and the supply of equipment and spare parts," the official Saudi Press Agency said. The Bin Laden Group is one of the biggest non-government firms and the largest construction company in the kingdom. It has launched numerous projects in telecommunications, real estate and oil production. Saudi officials maintain that the Al Qaida leader has severed ties to his familyâs business interests. They said he has not been active in the company since the early 1980s. The Bin Ladins have disowned Binny, except for charitable giving to terrorists, as discovered in computer discs in the former Yugoslavia.
Other government awards for airport operations were granted to the Saudi Services Co., Saudi Maintenance and Services Co., Rajab and Silsilah and Partners, Al Zamil Co. for Maintenance and Operation, and Al Qusay International for Contracting. Saudi Arabia has 27 airports and plans to build a new regional facility near Medina. The Saudi airports include three international facilities â King Khaled in Riyad, King Abdul Aziz in Jedda, and King Fahd in Dammam.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/30/2003 4:37:02 PM ||
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#1
Well thank God it's not those capitalist pigs Halliburton or Bechtel. I don't think I could live with that.
#2
I read somewhere before that the bin Ladens practically built Saudi. (I'll try to find a link if I can find it online.) So this isn't a surprise. Not exactly reassuring, but not a surprise.
I'm pretty sure Li'l Binny developed an inferiority complex based on the fact that he would probably never be a great mover and shaker, nor greatly respected, like his papa...
JIHAD, or holy war, was not appropriate in Australia, but was acceptable in Iraq and other nations, a Melbourne Muslim cleric said tonight. On SBS TVâs Insight program, Sheik Mohammed Omran defended fundamentalism in the wake of ASIO raids on Islamic Youth Movement headquarters at Lakemba in Sydney this week. The raids followed an investigation into suspected terrorist Willie Brigitte, who has been deported from Australia and is being interrogated by French authorities. Sheik Omran said he had a close relationship with ASIO, and was opposed to all forms of local terrorism. He said two alleged leaders of Jemaah Islamiyah in Australia - brothers Abdul Rahman Ayub and Abdul Rahim Ayub, who left the country last year - had approached him for advice about attacking the Israeli embassy in Canberra in the lead-up to the Sydney 2000 Olympics. "I said to them, âThis is unacceptable in Australiaâ. I said to them, âThis is not how we work hereâ," Sheik Omran told SBS. "This is our safe haven, go blow people up someplace else."
Reporter Sarah Ferguson asked: "Does that mean that jihad is appropriate in other places?" "Of course," Sheik Omran replied. Asked if it was appropriate for Muslimâs to join the holy war against coalition forces in Iraq, Sheik Omran said: "I would say, âYesâ." You got any laws in Australia that cover inciting violence? Sheik Hilali, of Sydneyâs Lakemba mosque, told the program that Sheik Omranâs views were dangerously radical. "It is not to the benefit of young people in any area to have a teacher like Omran ... not in Australia or any Arabic or Islamic country," Sheik Hilali said. "What were you thinking, talking in public like that? I thought we agreed to keep it in the mosque."
Sheik Omran also defended Islamic Youth Movement leader Bilal Khazal, who has been investigated by Spanish and Lebanese authorities in relation to his alleged connections to a Lebanese terrorist group. "Iâm sure he wouldnât support someone to go and blow up a restaurant, especially if we know that restaurant is in a Muslim area and the people will go and eat there, even if itâs an American company, but the people who will eat there are not Americans," Sheik Omran said. So if you only kill Americans itâs OK? Glad you cleared that up.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 9:49:16 AM ||
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#1
Ummm, yeah - I think I remember reading something about this is the Qu'uran... It's the "Down Under" sura, IIRC. It's sez something about it being okay to do any phreakin' thing you wanna do anywhere you don't happen to live at the moment.
Oh, just remembered, but it clearly says "And the believer shall strive not to take a dump in his own living room, for this is an abomination unto Allah, peace unto his bees, and pretty tacky no matter how you slice it."
#2
"Sheik Omran said he ... was opposed to all forms of local terrorism."
Well there you have it, I guess terrorism can be OK so long as it's someone far away who's the victim. This echoes well Chomsky, below, who says that Saddam wasn't a threat to "anyone" (anyone except, that is, anyone his regime could manage to physically touch). It's astounding to think that literally billions of people unquestioningly buy into the lies and utter hypocrisy of the corrupt left and the apologists of Islamic terror...
#6
Hmm maybe our Jemima Islamima groups in the US can send some down to Australia to commit terrorist acts--and they send theirs here--kinda like an exchange program for the Muslin yutes!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/30/2003 12:16 Comments ||
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#7
I'm kind of wondering what this "sheik" would have to say if he was the actual target instead of nameless, faceless people half a world away.
The Sheik in Australia said jihad was only okay elsewhere than Australia. The Sheik in Iran say jihad could only be done outside Iran. And the Sheik in Yemen said that jihad could only be done outside Yemen.
And the jihadis listen to all of them!
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2003 15:49 Comments ||
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Isn't there any kind of Sheik Chain of Command so they can keep this shit straight? Christ, it's worse then the fatwa fiasco.
#10
Across the globe the moslem religious leaders continually incite their followers to attack us and then claim that we are fighting a war against Islam. Logic must be different in their culture.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/30/2003 19:40 Comments ||
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EFL - The article talks about the crime wave in France and links it to the public housing projects (Cites) and their muslim inhabitants:
"Molotov cocktails also greeted the president of the republic, Jacques Chirac, and his interior minister when they recently campaigned at two cites, Les Tarterets and Les Musiciens. The two dignitaries had to beat a swift and ignominious retreat, like foreign overlords visiting a barely held and hostile suzerainty: they came, they saw, they scuttled off."
It is the private complaint of everyone, however, that the police have become impotent to suppress and detect crime. Horror stories abound. A Parisian acquaintance told me how one recent evening he had seen two criminals attack a car in which a woman was waiting for her husband. They smashed her side window and tried to grab her purse, but she resisted. My acquaintance went to her aid and managed to pin down one of the assailants, the other running off. Fortunately, some police passed by, but to my acquaintanceâs dismay let the assailant go, giving him only a warning.
My acquaintance said to the police that he would make a complaint. The senior among them advised him against wasting his time. At that time of night, there would be no one to complain to in the local commissariat. He would have to go the following day and would have to wait on line for three hours. He would have to return several times, with a long wait each time. And in the end, nothing would be done.
Remember: France is the (U.S.A.s) Democrat's wet dream.....
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/30/2003 19:46 Comments ||
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#6
After reading the whole article(and assuming it is not vastly exaggerated)much of French policy before Iraq War now makes sense.The Iraq War had virtually no Arab support-unlike Gulf War of '91.
France opposed any military action against Iraq out of fear of violent Islamic riots in the heart of her cities.The foreign policy of building an anti-US coalition was based on fear as much if not more than based on pride and ambition.
Posted by: Stephen ||
10/30/2003 19:49 Comments ||
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#7
mojo--again--you almost caused me to inhale my Diet Coke LOL!
From the French people I know--(anecdotal evidence I know) they aren't afraid of the Algerians and Tunisians living in ghettoes anymore than someone in Darien is worried about the "Hip-Hop menace in the Bronx" it's just a fact of urban/suburban life
#8
they aren't afraid of the Algerians and Tunisians living in ghettoes anymore than someone in Darien is worried about the "Hip-Hop menace in the Bronx"
#10
"...they aren't afraid of the Algerians and Tunisians living in ghettoes..."
In your dreams, NMM. Ever been to Paris yourself? Ever been outside the US yourself? The Parisian North Africans are a serious nuisance all over Paris and have seen it with my own eyes. On a "romantic" weekend there six years ago, my girlfirend received verbal abuse from said young men in the touristic heart of Paris (wasn't with her at the time it happened - results if I had been would have been interesting) and, talking to the friend whose apartment we stayed in, gave us a very different picture from the one you're trying to paint. She's been the victim of an attempted sexual assault and had many other incidents to relate.
The French ghettos are not a successful form of racial apartheid, as you perversely want to believe. Try to get hold of the film La Haine - it'll help give you some idea.
By Srdja Trifkovic. Itâs long, but I couldnât find anything I wanted to cut.
According to a recent Agence France Presse report (October 25), Germans are converting to Islam in increasing numbers. They are also âgetting younger and younger,â according to Muhammad Herzog who runs a Muslim cultural center in Berlin. He is quoted by the AFP as saying that âmany are looking for new lifestyles and some sense of direction.â Herr Herzog converted to Islam as far back as 1979, when he realized that âthe Quran gathered together everything I had ever believed in.â Islamic Institute archives now contain records of 12,400 people born in Germany to German parents who are now âcertifiedâ Muslims. The total Muslim population of Germany is approaching four millionâmost of them Turksâbut it accounts for close to one-fifth of all newborn babies in the nation of 80 million.
The writing was on the wall over a decade ago, when the number of Muslims stood at three million and the number of mosque associations exceeded 2,000. By that time already the Turks in Berlin had entire sections of the city closed in on themselves. The trend of establishing and supporting the enclaves of a parallel culture, hostile to the host-countryâs lifestyle and values, is by now well-established not only in Germany but also in France and Britain. The fact that increasing numbers of young Germans want to join an alien and hostile ghetto within the country of their birth is unsurprising. Estranged from their parents, ignorant of their culture, ashamed of their history, those young converts are making a logical step on the path of alienation that alternatively leads to madness, drugs, or suicide. They accurately sense that âthose who subscribe to Islam and its civilization are aliens, regardless of their clothes, their professions or their places of residenceâ (Sam Francis), and they choose to be aliens.
On present form the burgeoning Muslim population of Europe will never be âwesternized,â that is to say, made as willing as Christians to see their religion relativized, then mocked, and its commandments misrepresented or ignored. It is even less likely to be Christianized: that cannot happen unless there is a belated, massive, and unexpected recovery of Western spiritual and moral strength. Europe therefore faces two clear alternatives: defenseâimpossible under the current banner of multiculturalismâor submission and eventual acceptance of sacred Arab places as its own. Islamic activists in Europe trust in the latter, and with good reason. They know that the host-societies have lost the capacity to define themselves vis-Ã -vis âthe other.â They also know that their own immigrant brethren have no kinship with the host-societies and no desire to establish any (except to partake in their wealth, know their women, and eventually take over their lands, while nurturing contempt for a society willing to grant them every indulgence without a fight). Their utter disdain for the secular-democratic institutions of the host-countries notwithstanding, Muslims gladly invoke those institutions when they clamor for their ârightsââincluding the ârightâ of Algerian girls to have their heads properly covered in French state schools, or the ârightâ of a Muslim child not to face the effrontery of a cross on the wall of an Italian classroom (newswires, October 28). Like their Bolshevik predecessors they demand democratic privileges to organize and propagate their views while knowing thatâgiven the power to do soâthey would impose their own beliefs and customs, and eliminate all others, on the pain of death.
As I had predicted in The Sword of the Prophet (2002), extreme Islamic âpeace and toleranceâ manifested on 9-11 did not spell the end of another kind of extremism: the insistence of the ruling European elite that their countries are not based on ethnicity and on a cultural tradition rooted in Christianity. The rulers of Europe, their collective will recently visible among the founding fathers of the European Unionâs Constitution, facilitate the advance of Islam by destroying the sense of community based on kinship, language, faith, and culture. They are promoting functional nihilism, thus ensuring an apparent paradox: the urge of young Germans to convert to Islam is stronger now than before 9-11. This confirms that Islamâs strategy of reliance on the spiritual âDeath of the Westâ is sound. It also fits a pattern set by recent history; similar surges followed the outbreak of the Gulf War and the fatwa against Salman Rushdie.
It is befitting rather than ironic that Germanyâs conversion to Islam was desired, six decades ago, by an anti-Christian par excellence, Reichsfuehrer SS Heinrich Himmler. His hatred of âsoftâ Christianity was matched by his liking for Islam, which he saw as a masculine, martial religion based on the SS qualities of blind obedience, absence of compassion, and readiness for self-sacrifice. By creating an SS division composed of Bosnian Muslims Himmler was only taking the first step in the planned grand alliance between Nazi Germany and the Islamic world. One of his closest aides, ObergruppenfÃŒhrer Gottlob Berger, boasted that âa link is created between Islam and National-Socialism on an open, honest basis.â To many young Germans Usama Bin Laden is as admirable a figure today as Adolf Hitler was to many of their grandparents in 1929: a charismatic and dangerous man with a cause for which people are ready to die. Millions of their forefathers did not grapple with the complexities of the Great Depression when it was easier and more satisfying to submerge oneâs identity and suspend judgment in the scream of Sieg heil! Likewise the grandchildren, even when hungry for spiritual nourishment, refuse to solve mental puzzles. Tackling the meaning of Incarnation, Trinity, or Fall is not even an option when a readily available alternative offers simplicity and instant gratification. It is as easy to say âAllah is great; there is no Allah but Allah, and Muhammad is His prophet,â as it is to gulp a gram of Ecstasy. In the cities still dominated by ancient spires and domes the starkness and terror of the Cross have been forgotten; the image itself is being removed from sight. The young convertsâ newly arrived co-religionists know, and thrive on the fact that Islam is well on the way to supply the only religious tradition left standing in Western Europe.
Die Fahne hoch die Reihen fest geschlossen
S. A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt
Kam'raden die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen
Marschier'n im Geist in unsern Reihen mit
Flag high, ranks closed,
The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.
Comrades shot by the red front and reaction
March in spirit with us in our ranks.
Die Strasse frei den braunen Batallionen
Die Strasse frei dem Sturmabteilungsmann
Es schau'n auf's Hackenkreuz voll Hoffung schon Millionen
Der Tag fur Freiheit und fur Brot bricht an
The street free for the brown battalions,
The street free for the Storm Troopers.
Millions, full of hope, look up at the swastika;
The day breaks for freedom and for bread.
Zum letzen Mal wird nun Appell geblasen
Zum Kampfe steh'n wir alle schon bereit
Bald flattern Hitler-fahnen Uber allen Strassen
Die Knechtschaft dauert nur mehr kurze Zeit
For the last time the call will now be blown;
For the struggle now we all stand ready.
Soon will fly Hitler-flags over every street;
Slavery will last only a short time longer.
Die Fahne hoch die Reihen fest geschlossen
S. A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt
Kam'raden die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen
Marschier'n im Geist in unsern Reihen mit
Flag high, ranks closed,
The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.
Comrades shot by the red front and reaction
March in spirit with us in our ranks.
It's that sense of belonging to something larger than oneself that draws the rubes. You don't have to worry about right or wrong â somebody else takes care of that â only about Us and Them. If you've ever listened to the Horst Wessel Song, it's a rousing piece of [tromp tromp] music. It makes you [tromp tromp] want to get out there and [tromp tromp] march with the other hundreds [tromp tromp] even thousands, in their [tromp tromp] disciplined ranks. The [boom boom!] beat of the bass drum at the end of every [tromp tromp] verse is an added touch that [tromp tromp] makes marching with your Kam'raden fun. It made them feel [tromp tromp] invincible.
Because somebody else is doing the thinking, and the marchers were doing the doing, they didn't have to worry about the niceties of civilized behavior. All you have to do is trust in der FÃŒhrer the Koran. You're free to hate the Untermenschen infidels. You're the wave of the future, sweeping all before you.
There will never come a reckoning.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 1:31:13 PM ||
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#1
...Ah, to be at this year's reunion of SS 'Der Kama'..
These people are mindless, moral-less fools.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
10/30/2003 13:58 Comments ||
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'On present form the burgeoning Muslim population of Europe will never be âwesternized,â that is to say, made as willing as Christians to see their religion relativized, then mocked, and its commandments misrepresented or ignored.'
Seems like whoever wrote this has a really big problem with modern society. NOT someone whos interested in liberal democracy and a secular state. I wouldnt take the rest seriously.
oh wait he want to emphasize "By creating an SS division composed of Bosnian Muslims" Well im certainly aware of that history - interesting that nowhere here do we find out that contemporary Bosnian Muslims, ARE secularized and moderate.
Oh wait - the authors name? "Srdja Trifkovic"
Basically just more bigoted muslim bashing. By someone whose main worry is NOT Salafi-Jihadi terrorism, but instead is " a cultural tradition rooted in Christianity" well, my cultural tradition AINT rooted in christianity thank you very much - Im damned glad my great grand parents had the good sense to come to a country whose cultural tradition is rooted in the enlightenment. God bless the USA.
#3
I have noted before that Europe is effectively post-Christian. Their current religion is democratic socialism, which neglects people's spiritual (and many other) needs. Their morality has been weakened and Islam stands ready to succeed where it failed before the gates of Vienna.
#4
The Germans have been on the wrong side of history since their foundation as a state. WW1, WW2, half of Germany was on the wrong side of the cold war (DDR and College students). Its actually a cheering site to see them embracing Islam in that context.
#5
1. Just because the Islam Institute says 11k have converted, it doesn't mean they have.
2. A lot of incarcerated people attend moslem religious services in prison and identify with the 'I am a victim' mentality. They may even convert. But then they commit crimes again and get sent to prison again and get ticked off and unconvert. Do you count these people as converts?
3. For Germany, 11k Islamic converts may be a problem but 3 to 4 million Islamic residents, many of whom are hostile to civilization, is a disaster.
#6
Once again, I'm amazed that some Rantbourgeois are too familiar with Nazi culture to the point they quote the Horst Wessel Lied--Gott in Himmel--what say you TGA?
#7
I'm amazed that some Rantbourgeois are too familiar with Nazi
I'm amazed too...
I however can name the Gulags from B-Z and know lots about the T-34 - T-72. Hmmmm.... I know about the Doctors Plot and stateless metropolitans and trust me I can smell a Kulak. Can you humm Red October? Are you familiar with the defense of Tractor Station 4? I knew you were.
#9
In days of old, before Rantburg, I used to have a small collection of marches and anthems. Along with Horst Wessel, I also have the Radetzky March, Gary Owen, Stars and Stripes Forever, and about 40 or 50 others. I also collect 20s and 30s jazz.
I used to have a copy of Triumph of the Will, along with Chapaev, Battleship Potemkin, and Aleksandr Nevsky. I also have copies of Tom Jones, the Magnificent Seven, and the African Queen.
I own a copy of the Organisationsbuch der NSDAP, printed in 1940, with a picture of Adolph in the frontespiece. I also own the complete works of Lenin, a 120-year-old History of the Holy Roman Empire, translations of Eusebius and St. Augustine, the Soviet officers' handbook, quite a large number of books on languages, linguistics, and military orders of battle and tactics, plus poetry, most of it Elizabethan.
Most Rantburgers probably possess similarly odd collections. Anyone who can't Google the lyrics to most well-known songs shouldn't be allowed near a computer, though I'll admit I can hum the tune without prompting. I can also hum Gary Owen, the Marseillaise, and Brahms' 4th (or at least the first movement).
Posted by: Fred ||
10/30/2003 23:58 Comments ||
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#10
The Marseillaise---!? Then you truly do rule Fred--"Allons enfants de la patrie--le jour de gloire est arrivee! " Learned it in 3rd grade in Ohio--guess we were a hot bed of francophiles in '65
Link from LGF First, notice that the article is badly titled: âLa Civiltà Cattolicaâ is not breaking a cease-fire, but merely beginning to fight back.
Long article, just posting the introduction here:
ROMA â There is a conspicuous absence among the new cardinals created on October 21 by John Paul II: Archbishop Michael Louis Fitzgerald, president of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue. The current explanation is that Fitzgerald was not made cardinal because of his excessively placid approach to Islam. And it is true that, together with this exclusion, an article was printed in âLa Civiltà Cattolicaâ that contrasts markedly with the matter of Fitzgeraldâs rebuke. âLa Civiltà Cattolica,â edited by a group of Jesuits in Rome, is a very special magazine. Every one of its articles is reviewed by the Vatican secretary of state before publication. So the magazine reflects his thought faithfully. Itâs official Vatican policy, in other words.
In its October 18 edition, âLa Civiltà Cattolicaâ published a strikingly severe article on the condition of Christians in Muslim countries. The central thesis of the article is that âin all of its history, Islam has shown a warlike and conquering faceâ; that âfor almost a thousand years, Europe lived under its constant threatâ; and that what remains of the Christian population in Islamic countries is still subjected to âperpetual discrimination,â with episodes of bloody persecution. What follows is an ample extract from the article printed in âLa Civiltà Cattolicaâ no. 3680, October 18, 2003, and used here with the kind permission of the magazine: Follow the link to read the whole thing. This is the Vaticanâs equivalent of a warning shot, just short of declaring Holy War. Better get those Swiss guards ready.
How do Christians in Muslim-majority countries live? [...] We must first highlight a seemingly rather curious fact: in all the countries of North Africa (Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco), before the Muslim invasion and despite incursions by vandals, there were blossoming Christian communities that contributed to the universal Church great personalities, such as Tertullian; Saint Ciprian, bishop of Carthage, martyred in 258; Saint Augustine, bishop of Hippo; and Saint Fulgentius, bishop of Ruspe. But after the Arab conquest, Christianity was absorbed by Islam to such an extent that today it has a significant presence only in Egypt, with the Coptic Orthodox and other tiny Christian minorities, which make up 7-10 percent of the Egyptian population. Nice to know somebody at the Vatican notices the obvious. From Pope John Paulâs statements, one might believe Islam is the best of all religions (John Paul might criticize Christianity sometimes, but never Islam.)
In conclusion, we may state in historical terms that in all the places where Islam imposed itself by military force, which has few historical parallels for its rapidity and breadth, Christianity, which had been extraordinarily vigorous and rooted for centuries, practically disappeared or was reduced to tiny islands in an endless Islamic sea. It is not easy to explain how that could have happened. [...] Oh, yes it is. Through coercion, through discriminatory laws, through sporadic violence.
Thus, in all of its history, Islam has shown a warlike face and a conquering spirit for the glory of Allah. [...] against the âidolatersâ who must be given a choice: convert to Islam, or be killed. [...] As for the âpeople of the Bookâ (Christians, Jews, and âSabeansâ), Muslims must âfight them until their members pay tribute, one by one, humiliatedâ (Koran, Sura 9:29). [...] Right on.
It is evident that the condition of the dhimmi, prolonged through centuries, has led slowly but inexorably to the near extinction of Christianity in Muslim lands: the condition of civil inferiority, which prevented Christians from attaining public offices, and the condition of religious inferiority, which closed them in an asphyxiated religious life and practice with no possibility of development, put the Christians to the necessity of emigrating, or, more frequently, to the temptation of converting to Islam. There was also the fact that a Christian could not marry a Muslim woman without converting to Islam, in part because her children had to be educated in that faith. When Muslim apologists tell you of the âwonderful freedom of religionâ in Islamic countries, remember the paragraph above. And also remember religions other than Judaism and Christianity are even worse off.
We must, finally, recall a fact that is often forgotten because Saudi Arabia is the largest provider of oil to the Western world, and the latter therefore has an interest in not disturbing relations with that country. In reality, in Saudi Arabia, where wahhabism is in force, not only is it impossible to build a church or even a tiny place of worship, but any act of Christian worship or any sign of Christian faith is severely prohibited with the harshest penalties. Thus about a million Christians working in Saudi Arabia are deprived by violence of any Christian practice or sign. They may participate in mass or in other Christian practices â and even then with the serious danger of losing their jobs â only on the property of the foreign oil companies. And yet, Saudi Arabia spends billions of petrodollars, not for the benefit of its poor citizens or of poor Muslims in other Muslim countries, but to construct mosques and madrasas in Europe and to finance the imams of the mosques in all the Western countries. We recall that the Roman mosque of Monte Antenne, constructed on land donated by the Italian government, was principally financed by Saudi Arabia and was built to be the largest mosque in Europe, in the very heart of Christianity. Thatâs the master plan of Islamists: ask for freedom of religion in non-Muslim countries, so Islam can spread, repress competing religions in Islam-dominated countries, so Islam becomes absolute.
Posted by: Sorge and Steve ||
10/30/2003 11:06:56 AM ||
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#1
Remember, the Jesuits originated the phrase "Kill them all; God will sort them out."
In the 1300's (?), the French fought a Crusade against heritics in Southern France. After capturing a town, the Crusaders went to the Jesuit advising them to report that the town was alive with the sound of turning coats. What were they to do? "Kill them all" the priest advised. "God will know the difference."
#2
Dammit, second. And you're not even named Frank!
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 11:16 Comments ||
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#3
Jesuits were founded by St. Ignatious Loyala, in the 1500's, a couple of hundred years after the above incident (from the Albigensian crusade) Any catholics here who can confirm that?
#6
In the 1300's (?), the French fought a Crusade against heritics in Southern France.
In 2001, the Muslims fought a jihad against unbelievers in the US. 3000 died in a period of hours. (Note also that the Crusade was fought in an era when Muslim empire was expanding everywhere and doing similar things to infidels. The Mongol hordes also lurked on the horizon, having devastated several European armies before staging what, to the people of the time, may have seemed like a tactical retreat).
#8
When asked by one of the crusader warriors about the possible killing of Catholics along with the heretic Cathars, Arnaud-Amaury is supposed to have delivered his nefarious statement "Kill them all! God will recognize His own!"
From http://xenophongroup.com/montjoie/albigens.htm, a history of the Albigensian crusade.
Also, the Jesuits were formed by a Papal Bull on September 27, 1540. Please see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14081a.htm
#12
...The Jesuits aren't known as 'the Marine Corps of the Roman Catholic Church' for nothing. The level of learning and training they have to meet is incredible.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
10/30/2003 12:34 Comments ||
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#13
The Dominicans were in charge of the Inquisition.
#15
One of the primary characteristic of being a Jesuit is that you take an oath of personal loyalty to the Papacy. In the past, that made them the Special Ops for the Pope. You needed someone to go into Soviet Russia or Communist China, you called the Jesuits. If it was gonna be a fatal mission, you called the Jesuits.
It is an intellectual order, with nearly all being priests, not brothers (more education there) then many go on for advanced degrees. Jesuits have served as the advisor to more than one European monarch, and had a reputation for brutal practicality, which got the order banned and persecuted in more than one nation.
#17
its worth noting that President Clinton received his undergrad degree at Georgetown, a Jesuit University. Perhaps that was where he learned to dispute the meaning of "is".
#18
I could be wrong but I remember hearing that there has never been a Jesuit Pope before. Not sure why not but that's what I remember.
I also remember the Jesuits were the big vow of poverty fellows that became super-bloody rich as everyone who was rich, and guilty, gave them money for forgiveness during their early decades making the order itself extremely wealthy.
#19
I also remember the Jesuits were the big vow of poverty fellows that became super-bloody rich as everyone who was rich, and guilty, gave them money for forgiveness during their early decades making the order itself extremely wealthy.
If my employees took a vow of poverty, I'd be pretty rich too :)
#20
In my admittedly limited knowledge of my religion I always felt/was taught that the Jesuits were the true enforcers--as well as the most learned vs the Dominicans and the Franciscans
#22
In my admittedly limited knowledge of my religion I always felt/was taught that the Jesuits were the true enforcers--as well as the most learned vs the Dominicans and the Franciscans
The Society of Jesus was was originally designated by its founder as "The Company of Jesus". The title was Latinized into "Societas Jesu" in 1540. The name had been previously borne by a military order approved by Pius II in 1450, the purpose of which was to fight against the Turks.
The Jesuits are indeed perhaps the most educated of all the orders. As to whether they can be considered enforcers for the Church - that's a mixed bag, especially in the Western Hemisphere (they had a major role in developing "liberation theology").
#23
NMM - I think your analogy is right. It's similar to what I've been told. Most of the Catholic Churches I've been involved w/were associated w/the Franciscans so I can't speak w/any real authority. I'm also in the KofC - I think our founder was originally a Jesuit but I could be wrong.
#25
Oh yeah in SC! A lot of jarheads are Catholics, we have a lot of northerners from our part of the country as well as hispanics. Our chapter is pretty small - mainly former mil but a good group of guys. The Baptists pay us no attention.
Havana, Reuters, Chomsky...this piece has everything!
HAVANA (Reuters) - U.S. linguist and political dissident Noam Chomsky said on Wednesday that President Bush will have to "manufacture" another threat to American security to win reelection in 2004 after U.S failure in occupying Iraq. Quick! Somebody call the Mossad! The CIA! Halliburton! Skull and Bones! We need another threat! Pronto!
Chomsky, attending a Latin American social sciences conference in Cuba, said that since the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States, the Bush administration had redefined U.S. national security policy to include the use of force abroad, with or without U.N. approval. No shit!? Wow, now I know why this guyâs considered a genius!
"It is a frightened country and it is easy to conjure up an imminent threat," Chomsky said at the launching of a Cuban edition of a book of interviews published by the Mexican newspaper La Jornada, when asked how Bush could get reelected. "They have a card that they can play ... terrify the population with some invented threat, and that is not very hard to do," he said. Those buildings coming down on 9/11? They were invented? What were they, holagrams?
After the "disaster" of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, Bush could turn his sights on Communist-run Cuba, which his administration officials have charged with developing a biological weapons research program, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor of linguistics said. Nah, weâre too busy planning to nuke North Korea, Syria, Iran, Aruba, Barbados, Greenland, etc. Noam. By the time we get to Cuba, El Jefe will be dead and itâll be a moot point.
Chomsky said the military occupation of Iraq, to topple a "horrible monster running it but not a threat to anyone," was a failure. He fed on his own. Whatâs the big deal?
"The country had been devastated by sanctions. The invasion ended sanctions. The tyrant is gone and there is no outside support for domestic dissidence," he said. "It takes real talent to fail in this endeavor." Nice quote. Very...."linguistical".
Chomsky said it was reasonable to assume the Bush administration would try to "manufacture a short-term improvement in the economy" by incurring in enormous federal government debt and "imposing burdens on future generations." The Bush administration was a continuation of the Ronald Reagan presidency that declared a national emergency over the threat posed by Nicaraguaâs leftist government in the 1980s, he said. That worked out all right. Whatâs your buddy, Danny Ortega up to these days, Noam? Gonna see him on your little tour?
"The same people were able to present Grenada as a threat to survival of the United States the last time they were in office," Chomsky said, in reference to the U.S. invasion of the Caribbean island in 1983 to thwart Cuban influence. Which I believe ALSO worked. With no devastating long term effects. You gotta do better then this, Noam.
Chomsky, a dingbat leftist icon who is better known today for his critique of U.S. foreign policy that for his revolutionary theory of syntax and grammar in the 1960s, gave a lecture on the U.S politics of domination on Tuesday night that was attended by Cuban leader Fidel Castro. Give El Jefe a big kiss for us, willya, Noam?
The author of "Language and mind," "Manufacturing Consent," "Profit Over People" and "9-11" said the Bush administration was out to dominate the world by the use of military force if need be, and Iraq was the first test. BWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAA!
Chomsky criticized Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar for backing the United States and Britain in invading Iraq under a false pretext that the Arab country possessed weapons of mass destruction. Yawn....
Chomsky praised Cubaâs defiance of U.S. hostility and trade sanctions for four decades. But he also criticized the jailing of 75 Cuban dissidents earlier this year by Castroâs government. "Yes, I have criticized them for that," he said in an interview on August 28 with Radio Havana. "I think it was a mistake." But I didnât say it too loudly. Might make one of my heroes not like me anymore.
Posted by: tu3031 ||
10/30/2003 9:06:43 AM ||
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#1
Note how Chomsky thinks it's a "mistake." Not morally wrong, but a mistake. Fuck you Noam, stay there.
And that's a nice whitewashing of Grenada, too. But you might come to expect it from a guy who wrote 400 pages on Israel-Palestine but didn't mention the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (and his address during WWII).
Posted by: Brian (MN) ||
10/30/2003 9:14 Comments ||
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#2
"Chomsky, attending a Latin American social sciences conference in Cuba,"
-Chumpsky at the great commie jamboree - sounds like a real hoot.
"said that since the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States, the Bush administration had redefined U.S. national security policy to include the use of force abroad, with or without U.N. approval."
-actually President Clinton did that before GWB in Kosovo. I don't recall Chumpsky whining about that.
"The same people were able to present Grenada as a threat to survival of the United States the last time they were in office,"
-Nice try; the threat was actually to Americans living in Grenada not Grenada to the U.S. He also fails to mention the battalion of Cuban soldiers that were building air fields and a base in Grenada at the time which we eliminated.
#3
Chomsky said the military occupation of Iraq, to topple a "horrible monster running it but not a threat to anyone," was a failure.
Yea if your not Iraqi, Jewesh, Persian, Arab, American if he could, and basically all of Europe.....
Hope you like it there - we may be seeing you in the future.
Posted by: Dan ||
10/30/2003 9:42 Comments ||
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#4
I'm still waiting for that silent genocide of millions of Afghanistani's that Chomsky promised. Combined with his whitewashing of the Pol Pot genocide I find it hard to credit Chomsky's word on anything. The world is upside down in his twisted mind.
#7
Another hate-America fruitloop mouthpiece that couldn't recognize the truth if it bit him on the nose. If I had a dollar for every time this nutbag has been wrong, I could BUY California - not that I'd really want to...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/30/2003 13:31 Comments ||
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#8
Nom Anor Chomsky needs to shut his pie hole and let truthtellers talk.
#9
Jarhead-
Actually Chomsky complained about Kosovo too. It just wasn't as interesting for the mainstream media back then. Pretty much any movement by the U.S. military is an outrage for him.
#11
Anyone read The New Yorker article about him last month? He's kinda over-exposed, boring intellectual type that has bullshitted his way to a major career..yup..even liberals grow tired of crap like his....
#14
OW, roger your last. My brain-fart. I should've had my facts together. I assumed incorrectly that he'd be for a humanitarian mission that had absolutely nothing to do w/our national security and that was set in motion by Clinton. What was his beef w/going there besides hating us?
A recent (Oct 27, 2003) testimonial comes from Zaa Brifd, a fellow who says,
... I may not be able to recall exactly that in the beginning what particular thing in Islam put in my mind something against it. It might be five-time prayers, 30-days fasting in the months of June and July or something else. I remember the time when I was in my teens and early twenties; I was an orthodox Muslim. I spent major portion of my life with an ideology, which is male dominated, sex oriented, moving around one person and some of his companions. In fact Islam is not what its apologists say but what is in the Quran. It teaches fundamentalism and terrorism. The real Islam disgraces women, permits men to beat their wives, imposes discriminatory laws on the religious minorities, wants to rule the world by converting all the non-Muslims into Muslims, calls for Jihad and killing the non-Muslims until Islam becomes the only religion of the World.
A delegation from Pakistan has inspected the Bahrain International Circuit project near Sakhir, where the Gulf nationâs new F1 venue is under build for the inaugural Gulf Air Bahrain GP next April. Pakistani ambassador Sabih Uddin Bokhari led about 40 delegates on the visit, which included a presentation by the Tilke & Partners project manager, Rizwan Mumtaz. I wonder if this will be in the Tribal Area?
Posted by: Sam ||
10/30/2003 11:30:46 AM ||
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#1
While I normally would consider this crazy, the reality is that these days F1 will race wherever tobacco advertising is allowed.
#2
F1 is looking to liven up the show. This might be the ticket. Schumacher vs. Montoya against a background of US air strikes in the mountains. It would likely be the most exciting race of the season.
Looks like this is still the place...
At sunset, a bevy of four-wheel- drive Land Cruisers screech to a halt in a Wana town market. A group of tribesmen with shoulder-length hair wearing belts strapped with grenades and toting their trademark Kalashnikovs jump out and start loading huge quantities of rice, cooking oil, and other groceries onto the trucks. They drive off in minutes. "After every week or two they come and go," says a young tribesman, Zahid Khan. "Every person in town knows who these people are and where the food goes." These tribesmen are the powerful local agents of Al Qaeda fighters, who ferry food supplies to the "Arab mujahideen" in the tribal belt of Pakistan on the Afghan border. Groups of Al Qaeda and Taliban, numbering more than 300 and perhaps including the elusive Osama bin Laden, are buying out local criminals, recruiting unemployed young men, and making the region their fortress against US forces and their Pakistani proxies.
Pakistanâs regional commander announced Saturday that more than 230 Al Qaeda suspects have been rounded up since the Army entered the tribal areas following Sept. 11, 2001. Lt. Gen. Ali Mohammad Aurakzai also enumerated the significant Pakistani forces devoted to the hunt: four brigade headquarters, 10 infantry and three engineering battalions, and one special services battalion. Early this month, hundreds of Pakistani commandos fought a pitched gun battle with Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters in the village of Baghar, a few miles from the border with Afghanistan. They killed eight Al Qaeda men and captured 18; among the dead were Chechens and Arabs. But local sources say that hours before the raid, a group of 40 Al Qaeda fighters slipped away to nearby towns and mountains.
Officials term the recent operation "successful" but now admit that an Egyptian-born Canadian, Ahmed Said Khadr, believed to be an Al Qaeda leader, escaped the raid. This past week, at least two Al Qaeda men, who had fled the raids in South Waziristan, have been arrested in Pakistanâs Punjab region. Seventy local tribesmen have also been captured in an effort to pressure residents to cut off support and hand over wanted Al Qaeda fighters. "Waziristan is paradise for Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters," says Bukhar Shah, a Peshawar-based analyst. "They have the support of religious tribesmen, the mountains as their hideouts, and finances to survive and regroup. The success of the US-led forces in Afghanistan mainly depends on the success of operation in the tribal belt."
A tribal fortress
The remote and inaccessible terrain of these forbidding mountains renders operations against Al Qaeda logistically complicated. There are few proper roads, and residents travel on narrow trails and paths. But local support may be the fugitivesâ strongest defense. "Osama and his men are heroes for locals," says tribal elder Haji Behram Khan. "They are treated as honorable guests. They donât harm tribesmen, stay for a couple of nights, and pay 10,000 to 20,000 rupees [$175-$350] before they leave." Hordes of Al Qaeda fighters fled Afghanistan after the ouster of the Taliban and took shelter with their families in South Waziristan, where they also capitalized on the tribal tradition of defending their guests with the last drop of their blood. According to tribal sources with ties to Pakistanâs intelligence and police services, hundreds of the fighters have used the tribal belt as a corridor to either hide in various cities and towns of Pakistan or flee to Gulf countries via Iran. The sources also say that over 300 have stayed put in South Waziristan to continue their fight against the US-led forces in Afghanistan. "After the Tora Bora fighting, they were here everywhere," says a local tribesman. "Their red-colored Land Cruisers, satellite phones, horses, dollars - everything was visible. Now they are visible only to the locals. Most of the Land Cruisers are painted different colors now, but locals recognize all of them. Even their local agents now have dozens of Land Cruisers and roam around with bags full of cash," he says.
These Al Qaeda local agents and supporters are known as "Pakistani Al Qaeda" among tribesmen. They often wear sports shoes or sneakers, scarves, and have long hair. Their presence has been a boon to the local economy. "They have a huge quantity of arms and ammunition and are continuously buying arms from the market, where the weapons are readily available. That has resulted in prices shooting up," says a tribesman. "Prices of Kalashnikovs have risen almost 100 percent and a Russian bullet, known as Zahrilla [meaning âdeadlyâ], now costs 300 percent more." As the consumption and demand for weapons has increased in the tribal areas, so have the attacks against US and Afghan forces across the border in Afghanistan. "They have set up expensive wireless [phone] sets, [hooked up] computers in the towns for [international] communication, and attack the US forces from the mountains," says a young supporter, Dilawar Khan, who helped them set up the accessories for the equipment. Despite their largesse, these men also foster a climate of fear. On the slightest suspicion, anybody suspected of passing information to the authorities can end up dead. It is widely believed that these "Pakistani Al Qaeda" men are behind some recent murders, including the April killing of an official of Pakistanâs Inter Services Intelligence (ISI). Sher Nawaz was shot dead in Wana market in broad daylight. Some five months ago a local man, Mohammad Noor, was shot dead in the nearby town of Tara Yawar by suspected Al Qaeda agents. He was believed to have been spying for the Americans. Local residents also talk about the death of another man, saying a note attached to his body read: "Agent of America. This will be the fate of American agents."
Pakistani officials in the tribal region maintain that the fighters are buying out local criminals to gain strength, but do not have widespread support on the ground. "It is just a greed of money. Only the drug addicts and [thieves] are attracted to the terrorists," says senior local administrator Pir Anwar Ali Shah. "But we are tightening the circle around the terrorists and their supporters." Many villagers, however, do not share the global hostility against Al Qaeda and Mr. bin Laden. Some claim to have seen and cheered him and his associates shortly after US forces bombed the Tora Bora mountains in Afghanistan during the winter of 2001. "It was when Americans were bombing in Afghanistan. We were all in the fields when we saw Osama walking towards the Suleman Mountains," claims Noor Zaman. "We raised slogans of âHero of Islam, Osama, Osama.â He stopped, shook hands with us, blessed us, and continued walking towards the mountains."
Osama as âwoodcutterâ
A few suspect that Osama may have been hiding in the disguise of a woodcutter on the mountains surrounding South Waziristan. "Only a couple of months ago, when we went up on the mountains, there were strangers cutting wood and another group of around 30 people were encircling five or six hooded men. They did not let us go near those masked men. We could see their eyes only," says Jhand Karikhel, a woodcutter. "They gave us 5,000 rupees [around $85] each and said âpray for us.â" Stories aside, tribal elders say it is highly likely that bin Laden could have hidden in South Waziristan after he fled from Afghanistan, and believe that footage released by Al Qaeda last month, showing him and his No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, was filmed in their tribal region. "The footage I saw on a local TV channel, looked to me like our area," says tribal elder Haji Behram Khan. "Osama was wearing a Waziristani round woolen cap, shalwar kameez, and a scarf on his shoulder. The dress is of here and the terrain familiar; I have walked these mountains all my life." For some residents, hosting the foreign fighters is seen as a sacred event. "A few months ago, an Arab mujahid stayed at my cousinâs house. When he left the house, my cousinâs family members sprinkled the water used for washing his clothes all over the house as a blessing," says Mr. Zaman. "My cousin is now very well respected among villagers because he provided shelter to a mujahid."
Posted by: tu3031 ||
10/30/2003 10:50:06 AM ||
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#1
Sounds like Waziristan needs some attention from Super Hose, metaphorically speaking. Sprinkling washwater around for a blessing. That's rich! There should also be a price to pay for harboring the riff-raff rat club mujahideen.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/30/2003 11:14 Comments ||
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#2
'They have a huge quantity of arms and ammunition and are continuously buying arms from the market, where the weapons are readily available. That has resulted in prices shooting up," says a tribesman. "Prices of Kalashnikovs have risen almost 100 percent and a Russian bullet, known as Zahrilla [meaning âdeadlyâ], now costs 300 percent more."'
well at least somebody is discussing the price of kalishnikovs in (or near) Peshawar!!
Seriously, this is a difficult situation. OBL is surrounded by rings of defense - his 300 loyalists, then the local hired gunnies - all mixed in with a civilian population that includes lots of sympathizers - and the remainder too intimidated to inform for the Paki police - though from this it at least seems the Pakis are trying. You could go in and level the place - but the destruction of so many civilians would threaten the fragile Paki state. So instead you try a game of attrition - difficult, cause the baddies are killing anyone who collaborates with you - and the informants are your best asset. So you keep trying to build up an intel net anyway, and you kill baddies whenever you can find them, and you build roads to make the area more accesible. A long slog, as it were. Yet the noose tightens.
#7
"They have a huge quantity of arms and ammunition and are continuously buying arms from the market, where the weapons are readily available. That has resulted in prices shooting up," Evidently AQ's steady purchases are enough to drive the price up. THe huge quantity they HOLD is effectively off the market. The weapons may be "available" but evidently not in unlimited quantities at steady prices.
#9
I wouldn't doubt the validity of this article. It's difficult to find ANYBODY in mountainous terrain. Time for some very SERIOUS reconnaissance, using heat-sensitive imaging systems. Problem is, the best ones we have operate too high to pick out individual people, and aren't designed to operate at low altitudes - what you get below say 25,000 feet is a huge smear.
Almost impossible to send anyone into those mountains, as the Russians learned. The people that live there would discover them in two minutes. There are only two ways to fight this crowd - the way we're doing, and by making it too expensive to aid Al Qaida. That requires bombing to dust anyone that shelters or helps them, and the village they came from. We just don't think that way, and that option's off the table.
Right now, we're building up a database, inch by inch, mountain by mountain. Within say two years, we'll know every bit of that territory almost as well as the natives, and will be able to see anything that's out of place. THEN we can target individual caves, hideouts, and gathering points. In the meantime, we keep doing what's worked so far, whacking the bad guys where and when we can, and trying to build up Afghanistan to where it can start whacking on its own. It won't be a rapid success - we may need to be there ten or twelve years. In the end, though, if we don't pull out and run, we'll win. There's no other option, and anyone that wants to furce the US to pull out should be hanged from a DC lamp post.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/30/2003 14:00 Comments ||
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#10
Osama may have been hiding in the disguise of a woodcutter on the mountains surrounding South Waziristan
What is this turning into: The Peshawar Chainsaw Massacare?
Posted by: Mike ||
10/30/2003 14:52 Comments ||
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#12
I'm provincial as hell.... but I'm still curious about the massive use of cooking oil in the ME, these folks absolutely seethe when the grease is decreased. What do they use it for? Is butter halfal? I mean where I live Wesson is not one of the first things you think of after a hurricane.
EFL:
Foreign Office officials are investigating reports that a British man has been arrested in Pakistan on suspicion of having links to al-Qaeda. Tariq Mahmud, in his 30s and from Birmingham, was reported to have been arrested in the Pakistani capital Islamabad in an operation involving Pakistani and US intelligence officials.
I can remember when British men had names like Trevor or Clive or Cecil or Percy...
Mr Mahmud, who has two children, is said to have left Britain several years ago and is believed to have moved to the Pakistani capital after spending time in Afghanistan. A spokesman from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Pakistan confirmed a Tariq Mahmud had been arrested and was being questioned. "We believe he is from the Birmingham area," the spokesman added. A Foreign Office spokesman said on Thursday: "We are aware of reports of an arrest of a British national in Pakistan. Our consular staff are making enquiries with the Pakistan Ministry of Foreign Affairs. We are in touch with next of kin." Mr Mahmud, who is believed to hold dual British and Pakistani nationality, is reportedly being questioned about possible links with father-of-four Nigel Moazzam Begg. The BBC seems to be concerned about The Children(tm).
Mr Begg, 35, who is also from Birmingham, was arrested in Pakistan in February 2002 and transferred to Camp X-ray at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba a year later. He is among 600 other detainees held on suspicion of links with al-Qaeda and the Taleban and is expected to face a US military tribunal. Mr Beggâs father Alistair Azmat said he was frightened and concerned to hear reports that another man had been arrested in similar circumstances to his son. Mr Begg said he did not recognise Mr Mahmudâs name as a friend of his son. He said: "I do not know the name but if he is from Birmingham and is around the same age they may know of one another." Maybe they met at the local mosque? Weâll be sure to ask.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 9:02:01 AM ||
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EFL - Found this link @ GreatestJeneration... an interesting idea:
Following the recent passage of the Security Council resolution on Iraq, the key issue continues to be how quickly to move toward sovereignty and democracy for a new government. The resolutionâs call for the Iraqi Governing Council to establish a timetable by Dec. 15 for creating a constitution and a democratic government has papered over differences for the time being. But there are still substantial disagreements even among people who want to see democracy and the rule of law in Iraq as promptly as possible. The U.S. sees the need for time to do the job right. France, Germany and Russia want both more U.N. participation and more speed—a pair of mutually exclusive objectives if there ever was one. Some Iraqis call for an elected constitutional convention, others for a rapid conferring of sovereignty, some for both. Many Middle Eastern governments oppose democracy and thus some support whatever they think will fail.
There may be a path through this thickening fog, made thicker by the rocket and suicide-bombing attacks of the last three days. It is important to help Ambassador Paul Bremer and the coalition forces to establish security. But it is also important to take an early step toward Iraqi sovereignty and to move toward representative government. The key is that Iraq already has a constitution. It was legally adopted in 1925 and Iraq was governed under it until the series of military, then Baathist, coups began in 1958 and brought over four decades of steadily worsening dictatorship. Iraqis never chose to abandon their 1925 constitution—it was taken from them. The document is not ideal, and it is doubtless not the constitution under which a modern democratic Iraq will ultimately be governed. But a quick review indicates that it has some very useful features that would permit it to be used on an interim basis while a new constitution is drafted. Indeed, the latter could be approved as an omnibus amendment to the 1925 document. This seems possible because the 1925 Iraqi constitution--which establishes that the nationâs sovereignty "resides in the people" — provides for an elected lower house of parliament, which has a major role in approving constitutional amendments. It also contains a section on "The Rights of the People" that declares Islam as the official religion, but also provides for freedom of worship for all Islamic sects and indeed for all religions and for "complete freedom of conscience." It further guarantees "freedom of expression of opinion, liberty of publication, of meeting together, and of forming and joining associations." In different words, the essence of much of our own Bill of Rights is reflected therein.
AN IRANIAN WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE ASSASSINATION OF AYATOLLAH BAQIR AL HAKIM IN IRAQ AND FLED TO AN EAST EUROPEAN COUNTRY IS SEEKING ASYLUM IN IRAQ OR EUROPE IN EXCHANGE FOR INFORMATION. HE SAID: âBEFORE ENTERING IRAQ, WE ASSUMED WE WERE GOING TO KILL PAUL BREMER; A COMMANDER OF THE AL-QUDS CORPS BROUGHT US TO A BASE NEAR THE IRAQI BORDER AND TOLD US AL-HAKIM IS A TRAITOR WHO SURRENDERED TO THE AMERICANS.â (AL-SHARQ AL-AWSAT, LONDON, 10/30/03)
In another post I read today, Iran says if the US wants to talk to them, it should stop calling Iran "terrorists".... OK, letâs NOT talk
#1
The original Arabic transcript need to be made immediately available to the Iraqi newspapers - they'll "get it" I'm sure. This could turn the tide among the Shi'a toward allowing the Gov Council to accomplish its mission - and lessen the influence of the Qom-backed asshats like Sadr who speak Arabic with that telling Iranian accent. (heh)
#2
Here's another surprise (irony actually, but what the hey):
In widely publicized criticism in August, the Arab League - 22 nations, all of which are governed by monarchies, clerics, or military dictatorships - charged that the new American-installed Iraqi Governiing Council was illegitimate because it was not freely elected but consisted only of appointed representatives from various interest groups.
The league's secretary-general announced that Iraq's former seat in the Arab League would therefore remain vacant until the country had an elected government (which would make it the league's ONLY elected government).
From News of the Weird, 10/30, San Jose Mercury News
#3
No, mercutio, we need to talk to Iran. We just need to use a language they will understand - JDAM, MOAB, et. cetera. Until the entire Middle East understands fully that we will not tolerate terrorism, whether flavored by religion or or any other 'ism', the only way to get and keep their attention is to severely rap them across the knuckles whenever they start slinging their load of cow pies.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/30/2003 21:41 Comments ||
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From Zeyad, posted on HealinIraq:
Another incident my Aunt told us about yesterday which I didnât hear about in the news yet. She was at the Iraqi Central Bank in the morning when suddenly all hell broke loose. Police sirens, IP, FPS, and American MP all over the place. They had captured six suicide bombers who turned out to be Morrocans with explosive waist belts trying to enter the bank. Since that area (Al-Rashid street) is closed to traffic, they couldnât use cars to bomb it. I hope they can get some important information out of those desperate bastards. Oh, and donât go asking me for news sources to back this up, if my aunt didnât see that with her own eyes, I wouldnât have written about it.
#1
They need to find that Col that 'roughed up' that Iraqi cop to get information. He seems to have the key to getting information out of these yahoos.
Fox News; EFL. Main article includes a link to streaming video, if you can stand to watch it.
A grisly videotape showing acts of torture carried out by Iraqi Republican Guard and Saddam Fedayeen militiamen has been declassified and obtained by Fox News. The 23-minute long tape contains several scenes of Saddam Fedayeen fighters carrying out corporal punishment and at least one execution, probably of a Saddam Fedayeen member. Sources told Fox News that the man who handed over the current tape is cooperating with U.S. troops and will provide more tapes. The punishments include fingers being chopped or shot off, tips of tongues being cut off, wrists being broken by sharp blows from a wooden rod, lashes by whip or cane, a bound man being tossed off a building, a beheading involving a sword and a knife and a man being humiliated by riding a donkey backwards. Tom Malinowski, a director of Human Rights Watch, a New York-based advocacy group, said the tape provided a clear picture of how the former government instilled fear in the Iraqi people. "It reminds us that Saddamâs regime took sadistic pleasure in documenting the horrors it perpetrated on the Iraqi people," Malinowski said. "In fact, they wanted people to know this, because the purpose of this treatment was to terrorize the population so no one would even think of opposing Saddam." Similar tapes have been found in Iraqi prisons, military facilities and even the private video collections of Uday and Qusay, Saddamâs sons, who were killed by U.S. forces in a dramatic July shootout. Copies of several tapes have become brisk sellers in Baghdad marketplaces. Remember, kids, that Uday and Qusay considered these tapes a pleasant diversion.
Though at times improperly termed an "elite" unit, the Fedayeen was a politically reliable force that could be counted on to support Saddam against domestic opponents, according to GlobalSecurity.org. It started out as a rag-tag force of some 10,000-15,000 "bullies and country bumpkins" but later helped protect Saddam and Uday and carried out much of the regimeâs dirty work. A special "death squadron" was created to carry out secret executions. According to our old friend Murat, we should have left Saddam in power and let this all continue. After all, the Iraqis were so much better off with the Fedayeen in charge, werenât they?
Posted by: Mike ||
10/30/2003 2:05:22 PM ||
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#1
Think this will be broadcast on a network? Didn't think so....
#2
Fox showed edited clips on Shepard Smiths' show yesterday
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2003 15:03 Comments ||
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#3
Actually CrazyFool, Fox news was showing some fairly graphic chunks last night. They cut short of the guys fingers being lopped off but they told us what was going to happen. Same with the toungue slicing. They showed a guy tossed off a two story building and most of a beheading. Carefully edited, bordering on tasteless, but still an important reminder of the savagery that the US desplaced.
#5
But Saddam is a man of pieces err peace. This is nothing more than Zionist plot to dicredit the LEGITIMATE leader of the Iraqi people. What you really saw was part of the Saddam Universal Heath Care System. That poor man had arithic fingers, so they had to be removed. The other person had a lisp and had trouble saying: 'Saddam Aack Bhar'. After the tounge operation viola, no more lisp! This is just like the Health Care system I want for America and I want your vote.
#6
Gruesome, but I'm glad it's out. I find it amazing that Saddam & Son's atrocities got only about three days of attention during the last days of the actual war.
Surprise, surprise...
The United Nations pulled staff out of Baghdad on Thursday and international aid agencies debated whether they could continue operating in the face of a wave of suicide bomb attacks and persistent lawlessness.
A U.N. spokeswoman in Geneva said foreign staff in Baghdad were leaving Iraq for talks on security, following Mondayâs bomb attack on the International Committee of the Red Cross which killed 12 people including two ICRC guards. "We have asked Baghdad staff to come out temporarily for consultations with people from headquarters on the future of our operation," spokeswoman Marie Heuze said. She said the talks would focus on the security arrangements that "we would need to take to operate in Iraq." Most foreign staff had already been pulled out following a suicide truck bomb attack on the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad in August which killed 22 people, including head of mission Sergio Vieira de Mello. Since then, U.N. programs have been run mostly by Iraqi staff. Iraqâs police chief appealed to foreign aid agencies not to evacuate despite the dangers of working in Iraq. "I send a message to the humanitarian agencies that work in Iraq to keep up their work," Ahmad Ibrahim told reporters. "Donât cave in to these criminal acts." A U.N. spokesman in New York said there were about 60 international staff in Iraq, with most of them in the north and about a dozen in Baghdad. Staff in the north were not being withdrawn, the world body said.
The ICRC announced on Wednesday it was pulling out some foreign staff following Mondayâs bombing but would not cease operating in the country. Spokeswoman Nada Doumani said on Thursday foreign Red Cross officials in Iraq would hold talks outside the country at the weekend to discuss how to reduce staff. But she insisted that there would be no general evacuation from Iraq. "We have seen plenty of signs of solidarity since the bombing," Doumani said. "Families of detainees, contractors and hospitals that we work with have been coming to our headquarters to plead with us to stay in Iraq."
#1
The United Nations (news - web sites) pulled staff out of Baghdad on Thursday and international aid agencies debated whether they could continue operating in the face of a wave of suicide bomb attacks and persistent lawlessness.
Terrorists are playing the UN like a fiddle. Imagine that.
#3
But... but the UN is the only organization that can help the Iraqis! Whatever will the poor Iraqis do without the cloak of legitimacy the UN bestowed upon them?
#4
A U.N. spokeswoman in Geneva said foreign staff in Baghdad were leaving Iraq for talks on security...
Great. When you figure it out, c'mon back. We'll see you in about 20 years. Hope the meetings are in a place with a lot of good, expensive restaurants.
#5
I believe it was Tim Blair who had a quiz on his blog a few weeks ago asking, among other things, with the NGO's leaving Iraq at x per day and American entertainers (Bruce Willis, some comedians, singers, etc.) coming into Iraq at y per day, how long would it take for Hollywood types to outnumber wussies? One of his math-smart readers figured out the answer. I don't remember what it was, but it's obvious we've long passed that point.
How do you spell "useless"? U.N.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/30/2003 17:35 Comments ||
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#6
Hey Babs--why don't you use your real name? "Mrs Sharon"
Hat tip Instapundit
Like many Iraqis, Yassen Saeed is convinced that a surge of suicide bombings which has killed dozens of civilians in Baghdad is the work of foreign extremists seeking to sow chaos for US-led occupation forces. âThey are criminals. Syrians, Palestinians and Jordanians from the Arab world. Iraqis wouldnât do this,â said Saeed, a retired oil worker whose son was wounded in Mondayâs attack on the Red Cross (ICRC) office which killed a dozen people. It might be one of the few things on which Iraqis agree with US President George W. Bush, who on Tuesday pointed to foreign Islamic fighters as key suspects behind the rise in violence along with fighters loyal to ousted President Saddam Hussein. Saeed, gesturing angrily at the shattered Red Cross building, said all suicide attacks were wrong. Other Iraqis said they understood why such a method might be used against American or other foreign troops, even though most suicide missions have struck non-military targets since the invasion in April. But all were shocked such things could happen at the start of the Muslim holy fasting month of Ramadan. Read the whole thing...
Posted by: mary ||
10/30/2003 12:31:33 PM ||
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In The Daily Star, no less. Interesting...
When I read it in the New York Times, I'll be convinced that we're winning. I won't hold my breath.
But all were shocked such things could happen at the start of the Muslim holy fasting month of Ramadan.
Then there's hope for the Iraqis. It appears to me that most of the rest of the Muslim world thinks mass murder is holy, since it has no problem with "suicide" bombers anytime, any place (except, of course, where they're paid not to be).
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/30/2003 17:39 Comments ||
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#4
And once again Golda Meier's ugly sister pipes up
Q. The news media speak of an interminable post-war period. What is life like in Iraq now?
A. âLike in a country emerging from thirty-five years of dictatorship, during which the people were deprived of everything: of oil, but even of air to breathe. Saddam Hussein had transformed Iraq into an enormous barracks. Two wars, first with Iran and then the Gulf War, and twelve years of embargo produced a massive exodus of Iraqis abroad and a million deaths. And yet, faced with such a disastrous situation, today the people are satisfied with the change, with the renewed possibility for freedom. In just a few months eighty new political parties have arisen, five of them Christian, freedom of the press has blossomed in dozens of new publishers, six of them Christian. And even some of the television stations that have sprung up in the zone of Mosul are Christian. None of this was here with Saddam! Even from the economic point of view, everything has changed: before it was not possible to make any plans, but now we can construct projects, albeit modest ones, for the future. One example: state employees receive 150-200 dollars a month, before only 3-4.â
Q. But all of this was achieved through war.
A. âYes, but the civilians were not the targets. The Americans did a lot of bombing, especially in Baghdad, striking government buildings, and the bombs were usually precise.â
Notice how the European interviewer tries to steer the Iraqui Bishop into criticizing the U.S. The Bishop praises the American action nevertheless. (Note: I have added the Q & A signs to better identify the speaker.)
Are you afraid that there are still some of Saddamâs men around?
âThere arenât any more people linked to the dictator. What we have instead are Arab fighters who have entered Iraq, financed by fundamentalist movements in nearby countries, or maybe even by the governments. There are those who do not want Iraq to be open and free. Those responsible for the stream of attacks are loose cannons, without any popular support.â
The bishop disagrees with George W. (who blamed recent attacks on Saddam loyalists) and agrees with the Iraqi council, who blamed the attacks on foreign Jihadists. Letâs hope W. is wrong on this one. (It is easier to destroy foreign fighters.)
Q. What future do you imagine for Iraq? And what role do you see for the United Nations?
A. âThe United Nations is finished; we need to think of other instruments. Europe must have a crucial role. Before the war its support was strong, but now we lack its political support. It would be an error for Europe to leave the reconstruction of the country to the Americans.â
A U.N.-hating Chaldean bishop. Things are looking up!
Posted by: Sorge ||
10/30/2003 11:50:04 AM ||
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--This is certainly the moment in which we have the greatest need for you Europeans: Europe should put pressure on the countries bordering Iraq. And we need to learn; U.S. democracy is not the only model; Europe also has a valuable heritage. The point now is to create a democracy with Iraqi characteristics.â--
Well, there's his first mistake, looking to Europe.
#4
Notice what he said in the last paragraph: âThe United Nations is finished; we need to think of other instruments."
This guy understands that an agency that has no real responsibilities, has no impetus to change, and has no accountability to anyone but itself is a dead horse. It's all 'talk-talk', do nothing unless it's to prolong an unacceptable condition (I.E., "palestinian" refugee camps - really internment camps for Arabs who once lived in the area now known as the State of Israel, and who were ordered to leave by the Mufti of Jerusalem.)
I still say the Brits should 'give' the United Nations the island of Ascension, require that all members assigned to the UN or employed by it live there, and that all communication be by slow mail boat. The world would be a better place - especially New York City.
As for "getting Europe involved", I think the main thrust here is to 'import' some additional Christians into Iraq. Whether that's a good move or not isn't my decision. We'd need to study this guy's background much more closely than this one article before making any real evaluation of his words.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/30/2003 14:37 Comments ||
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B-a-R: You're sorta right, I believe the Bishop was just giving the Euroreporter some diplomatic pablum for the Europublic's benefit.
I think this is a more telling example of the Bishop's real view:
"Before the war (Europe's) support was strong, but now we lack its political support"
Yeah, that's one big elephant in the room there, boyo...
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
10/30/2003 16:10 Comments ||
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Just how long has this guy been the Bishop of Kirkuk? For example, did he have pre-no-fly-zone accomodations with Saddam? Did he "cooperate" during the last decade? Kirkuk and the north were far better off, sure, but they were not immune to Saddam - as the Kurds will tell you. To keep their power and status, thoughout history many people of position were cooperative with extremely negative (evil?) powers, such as the Vatican's "arrangements" with the Nazis. Is everyone assuming this guy's clean? And what is his agenda? Something doesn't quite smell right... He shoudn't get a pass until he's passed...
From the experience of Ken Joseph Jr. I don't think that Sadaam was generally nice to the Chaldean's (other than Tariq Aziz and the Chaldean Church in Detriot that he cut a check for $200,000 for.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/30/2003 20:23 Comments ||
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Insurgents attacked a freight train with an improvised bomb Thursday, setting four containers on fire and setting off a spree of looting by residents. The attack occurred on a rail line four miles west of Fallujah against a train that carries freight, mostly for the U.S. military, from this city to Haditha, about 135 kilometers to the northwest. The engineer escaped injury and fled the scene. As soon as the flames subsided, local residents swarmed over the wreckage, carrying off computers, tents, bottled water and anything else they could carry away.
Seems like they weren't "insurgents." They were robbers...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
10/30/2003 11:47 ||
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I seem to remember insurgents as typically attacking opposing forces, instead of citizenry and infrastructure.
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN in the NYT. Really, I checked. EFL:
Since 9/11, weâve seen so much depraved violence we donât notice anymore when we hit a new low. Mondayâs attacks in Baghdad were a new low. Just stop for one second and contemplate what happened: A suicide bomber, driving an ambulance loaded with explosives, crashed into the Red Cross office and blew himself up on the first day of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. This suicide bomber was not restrained by either the sanctity of the Muslim holy day or the sanctity of the Red Cross. All civilizational norms were tossed aside. This is very unnerving. Because the message from these terrorists is: "There are no limits. We have created our own moral universe, where anything we do against Americans or Iraqis who cooperate with them is O.K."
See my comments above. (Nobody ever believes me. They think I'm an old crank. Past my prime. In my dotage...)
What to do? The first thing is to understand who these people are. There is this notion being peddled by Europeans, the Arab press and the antiwar left that "Iraq" is just Arabic for Vietnam, and we should expect these kinds of attacks from Iraqis wanting to "liberate" their country from "U.S. occupation." These attackers are the Iraqi Vietcong.
Easy, facile comparison, ain't it? Accuracy, doesn't matter...
Hogwash. The people who mounted the attacks on the Red Cross are not the Iraqi Vietcong. They are the Iraqi Khmer Rouge â a murderous band of Saddam loyalists and Al Qaeda nihilists, who are not killing us so Iraqis can rule themselves. They are killing us so they can rule Iraqis. Have you noticed that these bombers never say what their political agenda is or whom they represent? They donât want Iraqis to know who they really are. A vast majority of Iraqis would reject them, because these bombers either want to restore Baathism or install bin Ladenism.
I'll take "install bin Ladenism" for $20, Larry...
Letâs get real. What the people who blew up the Red Cross and the Iraqi police fear is not that weâre going to permanently occupy Iraq. They fear that weâre going to permanently change Iraq.
Bingo!
The great irony is that the Baathists and Arab dictators are opposing the U.S. in Iraq because â unlike many leftists â they understand exactly what this war is about. They understand that U.S. power is not being used in Iraq for oil, or imperialism, or to shore up a corrupt status quo, as it was in Vietnam and elsewhere in the Arab world during the cold war. They understand that this is the most radical-liberal revolutionary war the U.S. has ever launched â a war of choice to install some democracy in the heart of the Arab-Muslim world. Most of the troubles we have encountered in Iraq (and will in the future) are not because of "occupation" but because of "empowerment." The U.S. invasion has overturned a whole set of vested interests, particularly those of Iraqâs Sunni Baathist establishment, and begun to empower instead a whole new set of actors: Shiites, Kurds, non-Baathist Sunnis, women and locally elected officials and police. The Qaeda nihilists, the Saddamists, and all the Europeans and the Arab autocrats who had a vested interest in the old status quo are threatened by this. Many liberals oppose this war because they canât believe that someone as radically conservative as George W. Bush could be mounting such a radically liberal war. Some, though, just donât believe the Bush team will do it right. OK, he takes a hard left turn here and resumes the NYT party line, but he made the above point very well.
Coincidentally, Richard Cohen wrote a similarly themed piece for today's Washington Post. It's also worth reading...
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 11:26:00 AM ||
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I agree with his rant but the oil is absolutly at the heart of the matter. Follow the money. Pouring Iraqi oil into the world market effects certain interest in different ways, OPEC has as much to loose as anybody. Bringing down saddam to free up that oil is absolutly neccesary to win this war. Using WMD threats as a pretext to invading Iraq was ruthlessly brilliant. Bush's attempt to keep this from being an overt religious war is impossible in some respects. Just read the Malaysian PM speech. There is a good link through 'Carnival of the Vanities' blog today on that speech. Sorry for not being a competent linkster. Hey off subject, but bacon slathered in tabasco sauce with hot coffee is to die for.
#2
Re: Friedman / NYT
I'm on the patch. Read Lucky's comment and agree with sinister plot, but felt no need to fall into the logic abyss - so I guess it's working.
#3
THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN wrote this? The Liberals are in more trouble than I thought. When the liberals admit that Bush is in the right the Left is in trouble.
#4
It's certainly about oil. The troubles with Saddam began when he fell in love with the Kuwaiti oil fields. Beyond that, Saddam was simply the easest one to rationalize and take down first (after Afghanistan that is).
From The Daily Star - Lebanon. EFL:
Much of the violence in Iraq over the past six months has been caused by Al-Qaeda operatives cooperating with loyalists of the deposed Iraqi regime, according to a senior Iraqi Islamist. Hamid al-Bayati, the European representative of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), also said in an interview with The Daily Star that this cooperation has a long history which pre-dates the US-led invasion, and that the Iraqi government played a part in the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. But, but, but, thatâs not possible......
Speaking at SCIRIâs West Kensington office, Bayati elaborated on the origins and structure of SCIRI and its relations with other Iraqi groups and foreign governments. The first topic that came up for discussion was the assassination of Baqr al-Hakim, SCIRIâs leader, on Aug. 29. Bayati is adamant that it was a joint Baathist/Al-Qaeda plot: âWe have information that it was the work of elements in the regime and Al-Qaeda people who have been in Iraq for a long time.â He dismissed suggestions that a Baathist/Al-Qaeda nexus is improbable given the antithetical ideologies. In politics, ideology is not always the over-riding factor, he said. âWe work with the Americans, do you think we share the same ideology?â The man has a clue.
Bayati maintained that many of the attacks being carried out in Iraq today bear the hallmarks of Al-Qaeda: âCar bombs and suicide bombers are more akin to their style.â He also holds that the terror organization are not newcomers to Iraq. âThese operations could only be carried out by people who have been in Iraq for some time.â Bayati said that Saddam Hussein had a role in the Sept. 11 attacks. He referred to Ramzi Yousef, an Al-Qaeda operative who he said was an âIraqi agent.â All Iâve heard was that he had met with Iraqis, interesting.
He also said that in July 2001, an Iraqi newspaper had carried a story claiming that Osama Bin Ladenâs organization planned to attack the White House and the Pentagon. âNow, how on earth could they have known about that,â Bayati quipped, confident that the prediction could not have been just a lucky conjecture. Hummmm
Bayati lamented the fact that the alleged Baathist/Al-Qaeda nexus has not been fully explored: âThree months after the Sept. 11 attacks I wrote a book, dedicating a whole chapter to Saddam Husseinâs relations with Al-Qaeda.â Bayati stressed that Bayati is certain that Saddam Hussein is alive and well. âSaddam is good at hiding. A lot of people have an interest in keeping him alive,â he said. When asked whether the US preferred to kill Saddam Hussein rather than arrest him, Bayati was diplomatic, saying: âeither arrest him or kill him.â "Or arrest him, then kill him"
On SCIRIâs relations with America, Bayati maintained he knew nothing of secret contacts beginning in 1989. âAs far as I know it was only after the invasion of Kuwait that the US began courting Iraqi opposition groups, including the SCIRIâ he said. Bayati said that US-SCIRI relations have been satisfactory since the occupation. But he conceded that there were resentments over the disarmament of the Badr Brigades in June. Bayati confirmed that part of the problem was that there were still armed groups in Iraq, in particular SCIRIâs bete-noire, the Mujahideen-e-Khalq. In any case, Bayati said: âWe do not want to antagonize America and that is why we decided to disarm.â "What do you think we are, stupid?"
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 10:20:03 AM ||
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"either arrest him or kill him."....
"Or arrest him, then kill him"
I'd prefer kill him, then arrest him.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/30/2003 10:29 Comments ||
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"A lot of people have an interest in keeping saddam alive". Like who and why?
Their badges and blue uniforms have made Iraqi policemen walking targets in recent attacks aimed at the U.S.-led coalition and those who work with them. But many of the policemen say the attacks have only reinforced their resolve to stay on the job. "I am not afraid of these people. This is our country. If we donât defend it, who will?" Sgt. Akeel Muteb said as he was pinned with the Iraqi equivalent of a Purple Heart. Muteb, who has a white bandage over his left eye and shrapnel lodged in his back, survived an Oct. 9 suicide car bombing on a police station in Sadr City, a Shiite neighborhood, that killed three officers and five other civilians. "Even if itâs dangerous, I will keep doing my job. Itâs my duty to serve the country," Muteb said.
Currently, the Iraqi police force consists of about 40,000 on active duty with another 10,000 undergoing training, said coalition spokesman Charles Heatly. Another 35,000 will be trained next year in Jordan. Most had served under ousted leader Saddam Husseinâs regime. After the old organization was disbanded in May, coalition authorities asked them to rejoin the new force except for senior personnel, who were kept out because of close ties with Saddamâs Baath Party. Muteb, a 16-year police force veteran, returned to work under the new regime. "Things are much better now," he said. "We have freedom to do our job properly. We have good salaries. We have the respect of the people." But their task of restoring order in postwar Iraq has been made difficult by a wave of violence aimed at police forces working with Americans. On Monday, three police stations throughout the city, along with the Red Cross headquarters, were targeted in coordinated attacks. The 45-minute killing spree left three dozen people dead, including eight officers. More than 220 people were wounded, including 65 policemen, making it the bloodiest day in Iraq since major combat was declared over on May 1 by President Bush. A fourth attack on a police station was thwarted when police officers stopped a driver from detonating his explosives-laden car. Shouting "Death to the Iraqi police, youâre collaborators," he was subdued and arrested. That would be the Yemeni with the Syrian passport.
Muteb received his decoration at a Tuesday ceremony organized by the 1st Armored Division to boost the "esprit de corps" among the battered police force. The division has military control over Baghdad. Brig. Gen. Martin Dempsey pinned on the Iraqi equivalents of the Bronze Star and the Purple Heart, and told officers they had "proven they wonât be intimidated by cowards who fear change." A total of 124 policemen were honored for acts of valor and sacrifice between April and mid-October. The families of 21 officers killed in action were on hand to accept their sonsâ medals. Officers wounded in action received a one-time cash award of $100 each, while widows of those killed got their husbandsâ salaries for the rest of their lives. Excellent, this will help their morale.
"Your courage puts forward a message to terrorists," police Brig. Ahmed Ibrahim Kadhum, deputy interior minister, said. "Not only are we stronger than before, but weâre stronger than what they can throw at us." Solemnly marching across the stage, Qadhi Ali Hassan was composed but broke down as the red medal was pinned on his chest in memory of his 29-year-old son Haider, killed in the car bombing in Sadr City. "I feel very very sad about his death, but he wanted our country to be safe," he said. "He wanted to do his duty." Another story you wonât see on the major TV networks.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 9:13:50 AM ||
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widows of those killed got their husbandsâ salaries for the rest of their lives.
#3
They're are some really brave souls walking the streets of Baghdad. It is a fallacy to believe that the Iraqi people aren't willing to pay the price for freedom.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/30/2003 11:40 Comments ||
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The job the police are doing doesn't go unnoticed by the Iraqi civilians, either. See Zayad's comments in HealingIraq a few days ago.
#5
They certainly seem to be doing this right. This is bound to be Former NY Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik's doing - and legacy: a solid Iraqi police force backed up with intelligent practical policies. Kudos, Bernie!
ELF - read the whole thing as they say (hat tip to the Insta-man himself)
MOSUL, Iraq -- Looters had torn apart the seven-room pediatric wing at the medical center and there was no place to treat the children who were lined up in the streets. Kifah Mohammad Kato was desperate and told a U.S. soldier about it in late June on the off-chance he could help. Within a week, a Humvee pulled up with the first installment of $9,600 in cash to fix the wing. Within four more weeks, the building was rebuilt and refurnished, complete with fuzzy blankets in primary colors and Mickey and Minnie Mouse decorations. "It happened so fast I almost couldnât believe it," said Kato, director of the Sinjar General Hospital. The speed and ease with which reconstruction money is being handed out by the military here contrasts sharply with the delays and controversy surrounding the handling of major reconstruction funds by the Pentagon and U.S. Agency for International Development. tap, tap, tap. No, nothing on the olâ surprise meter
The fact that the money comes from seized Iraqi assets, the Saddam Hussein regimeâs overseas bank accounts and cash stockpiles found in palaces and the walls of government buildings in Iraq has provided a fortuitous loophole. I work for Uncle, why canât I find cash in the walls?
Since the money was not appropriated by Congress, officials of the U.S.-led occupation government in Iraq believe that it does not have to be disbursed under the usual contracting regulations. Gee Ethel, I canât find this in the Federal Acquisiton Regulations!
The money for most military projects in Iraq goes through something called the commanderâs emergency response program. About $100 million has been allocated so far and the 101st Airborne Division, which oversees northern Iraq, has spent about $31 million of it. It has been used, officials said, for more than 11,000 projects such as hiring a civil defense corps, patching roads and fixing an oil refinery and a sulfur plant. And the purpose of the NGOs is...? Oh yes, to make the Leftistas feel good
Posted by: Spot ||
10/30/2003 9:01:57 AM ||
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Good stuff. Think the NY Times would report good stuff like this? Yeah, me neither.
#3
I hope they're sharing the goodies with our buddies in the south. If they also have to "find" it to bypass their bureaucratic channels, I'm sure we can arrange something... We all know how good it feels to be a Santa's helper... Hmmm, do ya think the NGO types possess that neural capacity?
I'll give anyone a fair read bro. Heck, I listen to NPR each day for a bit. I know most of my conservative brethren think that's crazy but I like to keep an open mind. They can report, I'll decide.
#6
Wapo is in a different class then NPR. NPR foreign coverage is run by first class terrorist sympathizer Loren Jenkins. There are still some decent folks at NPR, but they tend to be the exception.
The Washington Post has consistently followed a generally hawkish line on Iraq and the general WOT, and a moderate line on the Israel-Pal situation. They have managed to combine this with a generally skeptical approach to the admin, and a generally liberal/new democrat approach on domestic policy. AFAIK they are the only daily news source that has followed this line.
Posted by: B ||
10/30/2003 12:34 Comments ||
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LH & Anonymous, - points taken.
"Open mind is a small part, the real reason is to know your enemy."
A, I don't consider too many fellow Americans out right enemies just because I think their political views are asinine. Look at Murat, Aris, & NMM for example - I don't agree w/a lot they say but I respect that they say it. Heck, none of them are even Americans (jury is still out on NMM). Its when morons go to the extremes of a Hanoi Jane (ANSWER meets my criteria as well) that b.s. needs to stop & we should get pissed. I have close friends & family from all spectrums.
LH - I'm not too up on Jenkins so I can't comment. I would like to see more objective coverage going around though. If the lib press points out a valid mistake we've made in our planning or execution - then that's fine w/me, let's fix the problem and move on. I don't think their wrong all the time, just most of the time :)
The real problem w/folks like NYT & LAT lies in blowing situations out of proportion, not reporting the whole story, and misrepresenting the news (there's far right wing circulations that do the same). For example, the more the LAT pounded Arnold in CA the more popular he got.
#9
FYI Jarhead--I am an American, originally from a small city in the midwest.
If the NYT is so "liberal" why do they have Op-Ed/Editorials by people like Thomas Friedman, Andrew Sullivan, John M Poindexter, and WILLIAM SAFIRE!?! (all in the last 60 days www.nytimes.com) Show me the last time the Washington Times or Wall St Journal featured any opposing views. Oh, I forgot, Rev Moon and Dow Jones don't like dissent.
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/30/2003 16:39 Comments ||
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Jarhead - Also note that the LA Times is now owned by the Chicago Tribune, which is itself becoming increasingly leftist. Poor Col. McCormick is spinning in his grave (should hit China soon).
#13
NMM - I was being facetious, you know - joking...you're still my favorite lib in here...chill out bro. I know your from around Madison, WI or Yellow Springs, OH - some shit like that. I'll check out your NYT rant and give you 'mad props' if you're right. Until then, take it easy on the starbucks wild man, remember: decaf = good. Caramel mochiatto = bad.
by Johann Hari The column is from The Independent, though the link is to Mr. Hariâs personal website. I find it interesting that these comments are appearing in one of the more stridently antiwar newspapers. EFL
I want one person to dare to write to this newspaper and say with a straight face and a clear conscience that the Iraqi people would be better off now if we had left Saddam Hussein in power. Just one. Murat?
I sense a Murat pen somewhere hitting his keyboard paper. Pause a moment. Forget that fewer than 5 per cent of Iraqis have told pollsters - in the tens of scientific surveys so far - that they want Saddam back, if you must. Think about this. Barely a decade ago, the marshes of southern Iraq were home to 400,000 hunters, fishermen and boaters, living as part of a delicate ecosystem so lush that it was long considered to be the location of the Garden of Eden. Their homes were built on floating islands made from reeds. They had inhabited this peaceful, self-sufficient world for five millennia. But then Saddam seized control of their country. He damned the Marsh Arabs as "lawless gypsies", and set about "civilising" them. Desperate to preserve their way of life, they made a mistake. They trusted George Bush senior in 1991 when he said the United States would back this persecuted minority if they rose up to overthrow Saddam. They did; and Poppa Bush stood by while Saddam drained and poisoned their swamps, butchered their leaders, burned scores of their villages, and drove the survivors into desert slums. He had much of their water diverted for his personal enjoyment, to create artificial lakes around his palaces. Emma Nicholson, the Liberal Democrat peer who has been one of the few public figures to champion the unfashionable Marsh Arabs, accurately describes Saddamâs behaviour as genocidal.
This time last year, I visited a Marsh Arab family crammed into a tiny straw hut in the stinking heat in the Iraqi desert. It was not their poverty or their grief - overwhelming though they were - that changed my mind and made me resolve to support the military overthrow of this Stalinist tyranny. It was the fact that in this - the tiny patch of sand and straw that remained to them - they were forced to hang a vast, menacing portrait of the man who had done all this. If Blair and Bush had listened to the opponents of the war, they would still be festering in that shack. Instead, the marshes are being flooded with water once again. After the liberation (not a word Marsh Arabs scoff at), they began to hack away at the dams that destroyed their lives, and sympathetic officials have opened the massive al-Karkha dam to help them. Tony Blair always said that "the greatest beneficiaries of the war will be the Iraqi people." No, this is not the primary reason why we went to war, but the liberation of the Marsh Arabs was an entirely predictable result of military action - and many of you marched to stop it. You might have doubts about America being a friend of Iraqi democracy - given their one-time backing for Saddam and a myriad of tyrants, [This is a leftist myth — the most the US ever did for Saddam was to provide minor intelligence support in the hopes that he would be a counterweight to the Iranian thugocracy, which was then perceived (rightly, I think) as the greater threat. Besides, if we really did once support Saddamâs tyrrany, donât we have a moral duty, then, to the victims of that tyrrany to relieve them of their suffering? Anyway, we now return you to our regular programming . . . ]
all sane people should - but you can be absolutely certain that the bombers - attackers of the Red Cross - are its resolute enemy. America helped the Kurds to build democracy in Northern Iraq; neither jihadists nor Baathists have ever built democracy anywhere. America offers some hope; the bombers, none. Any possibility of a better Iraq is being shaken with every blast. Of course, we should not play their game by exaggerating the bombersâ successes. 90 per cent of the attacks are happening in just 5 per cent of the country, so most Iraqis - and most coalition troops - are unaffected by these attackers.
The real danger confronting us in Iraq is not from freelance bombers. They can murder aid workers, but they cannot defeat us. The risk is, instead, that opinion back home will cave in to the tiny minority - mostly, it seems, non-Iraqis - who are attacking American troops. Brits and Americans are beginning to assume - in defiance of all the evidence from piles of opinion polls, conducted by companies who successfully predict election results across the world - that the coalition is not wanted by the Iraqi people. The real picture, away from the frantic TV cameras, is that Iraq is getting steadily better by the day. Iraqi teachers today are earning between 12 and 15 times their Saddam-era salaries, and almost every primary and secondary school is now open. Doctorsâ salaries have octupled, and 22 million vaccination doses have been given to Iraqi children. The Kurds have never been happier or safer (they have, for over a decade now, been living in a thriving democracy on the land clawed back from Saddam in the first Gulf War, but they wanted the threat of Saddam removed forever). All of Iraqâs 240 hospitals and 400 courts are open and in business; 40,000 police are on duty. Some quagmire.
Yet Iraq has become a magnet for international jihadists who venture across the world, from Afghanistan to Chechnya to Palestine. The notion of an Arab country moving towards the depravity of democracy (as opposed to rule by the Word of God) horrifies them. They care nothing for hospitals or schools. I have interviewed jihadists in both London and the Occupied Territories, and they believe - like old-style Marxist revolutionaries - that it is a good thing if material conditions get far, far worse under the corrupt current system, because this will precipitate a revolution. With these people prepared to make conditions far worse for the Iraqi people, a massive amount of disruption can be achieved with minimal man-power - a few thousand jihadists in a country of 23 million. The Iraqis understand this, far better than their alleged "friends" at International ANSWER.
These attacks are calculated to undermine our will to carry out a proper transition to Iraqi self-rule, along the path that has already been travelled by the Kurds in the North. A hasty withdrawal would give Islamic theocrats or recidivist Baathists a far better chance of seizing power than free elections. All decent people - including those who opposed the war - [this means you Murat!]
must now work to establish a consensus in Britain and the US behind the path that Iraqis, in every single poll of their opinion, are begging us to take: stay for a few years to ensure a transition to democracy, resist the fascistic bombers attacking those who have come to help, and gradually accord more and more power to the Governing Council in advance of elections. Iâm not sure that all that many of those who so vocally opposed the war can be properly described as "decent," but the man does have a point.
Posted by: Mike ||
10/30/2003 8:38:54 AM ||
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Sorry but I believe Bush will withdraw within 6 months, even with a UN resolution international backup is close to zero. Bush hopes to get a trophy (Saddam) so he can declare his mission finished without losing to much face, leaving Iraq a la Afghanistan, semi civil war.
Posted by: Murat ||
10/30/2003 10:00 Comments ||
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Guess we'll just have to see where we are in 6 months then Murat. I think we'll still be there. At least I've been told to be ready to pull my rotation there in late '04 or in '05. LH is correct we are still in Afghanistan. We are still in Kosovo as well. I think the only way we get pulled quicker then '05 is if a Democrat wins the WH.
Explain again why leaving Saddam in power would have been a good thing for Iraq--or Turkey, for that matter.
Posted by: Mike ||
10/30/2003 10:12 Comments ||
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Murat, If we CAN leave in six months, then we will have had a big win. We learned a lesson in Vietnam about doing something half-assed. Bush will not leave the country until it can be on it's own. We can and should start redeploying troops that are covering Bosnia. They should be standing on their own by now and if they screw up I think the EU should step in. This will reduce the Ops-tempo for our troops and greatly increase morale. Yes Jarhead you will garrison Iraq for at least the next year (or maybe two). The more schools, hospitals, and mosques that the terrorists bomb decreases their support. Also the border force is coming together and this will reduce the number of islamo-idiots that can cross into Iraq.
#6
Explain again why leaving Saddam in power would have been a good thing for Iraq--or Turkey, for that matter.
Saddam is born on 28 April 1937 (he is almost 67), this grandpa is almost senile and cannot form any big threat to the world, waiting a couple of years and he would have gone naturally.
1 It would have spared lives of thousands in Iraq if war did not happen
2 Iraq is now facing anarchy, which would probably not happened.
3 Both of his sons donât have the capacity to follow on their father.
But a natural death of Saddam would have deprived the US of a just cause (fighting a dictator with alleged WMD weapons) to occupy its oil recourses.
Posted by: Murat ||
10/30/2003 10:50 Comments ||
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Heck, we're still in Korea and Germany and we successfully implemented a containment strategy against the Soviet Union that took 40+ years. We were in Vietnam for nearly ten years.
Jarhead: Have you seen the new book The March Up about the First Marine Division in Iraq? Looked good to me, but what do you think?
Posted by: Matt ||
10/30/2003 10:51 Comments ||
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If the US had no intentions on OIL than someboddy should explain why halliburton and other US oil companies are tremendously profiting from the situation now.
I see none of you can, heck denying the undeniable is a hard task isn't it.
Posted by: Murat ||
10/30/2003 11:05 Comments ||
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Murat:
If Saddam had died a natural death, Uday or Qsay--either one of whom made their old man look like a piker when it came to torture and repression--would have taken power. There were no practical alternatives, and neither boy was the sort to go gently into exile and take up art collecting.
If Saddam & Sons had stayed in power:
--thousands of Iraqis would have continued to be killed and maimed every month by the Baathist regime. (You like to talk about war casualties a lot, but for some reason you never mention the "normal wastage" of civillian lives during the "peaceful" reign of Saddam & Sons. Why is that?)
--Saddam would still be subsidizing Palestinian suicide bombers at $25K per detonation, and enriching himself (and TotalFinaElf) through the UN Oil-For-Gold-Plated-Bathrooms program.
--The marshes would still be deserts, and the Marsh Arabs a lost people.
This is all good, right? You're in favor of it, right?
(And, personally, if Haliburton rebuilds Iraq's infrastructure and gets the oil fields working again, it's only fair they be compensated for their efforts. It's better than paying TotalFinaElf to prop up the dictatorship, isn't it?)
Posted by: Mike ||
10/30/2003 11:31 Comments ||
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Re: halliburton profiting on Oil contracts. Im sure Bechtel is profiting on road contracts. Does that mean we went in to build roads?
#11
Murat. After we're done sucking every drop of THE OIL out of Iraq, I say we head up to Turkey and grab every brick of THE HASH you're smoking up there. Can't see the lefties protesting against, "No War for Hashish!"
#12
Murat, if your country is poor because the oil fields were set afire and booby-trapped, and allowed to rot, does it matter how much profit the company makes that gets them functioning again?
Murat, pease provide a link or two to how much Haliburton is profiting. That's screamed about a lot but so far I haven't seen any evidence that they have even got the oil flowing properly yet, which means Haliburton is probably taking a substantial loss at this point.
Murat, you need to think things through a bit before you post. Post some links, prove your point, instead of spewing old discredited anti-American talking points. In the entire time you've posted here I don't think you've ever convinced a single person you were right about anything. You've got to work a bit harder than that.
#15
Sorry but I believe Bush will withdraw within 6 months,..
Not going to happen. Bush knows what the consequences would be of just packing up and leaving, and WE know what the consequences would be. Any effort to just cut and run is not going to go unchallenged.
#17
Any effort to just cut and run is not going to go unchallenged.
Which is one big reason the Democrats are going to be handed their heads in the election next fall. They are opposed to doing ANYTHING in the Middle East but hand-wringing. The American people have seen through their rhetoric, and find their position appalling. The constant broadcast of hate, most aimed at George Bush, reminds most Americans too much of Al Qaida and the radical islamofascists.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/30/2003 15:36 Comments ||
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I sure as hell saw more irrational hatred broadcast against Bill Clinton than I've seen against GWB! And much better funded--like Mellonhead Scaife, Rupert Murdoch, et.al.
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/30/2003 17:02 Comments ||
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even with a UN resolution international backup is close to zero
Mur RAT - do they teach math in turkey? or did you choose to play hookey that day....
there are over 10,000 troops other than American as part of the coalition (not including the brits)
thats just a bit more than close to zero.
and you should expect to see an american footprint for years to come - we are already spending hundreds of millions on signals intel to keep tabs on the surrounding countries.
your just peeved that the turks come out of all this looking very weak - got the kurds standing behind uncle sam thunbing their noses at you.
if this was about oil then we would of left hussien in power as our puppet. yes american compainies are getting handsome profits - not in selling iraqi oil but in repairing infrastructure. and if it is american tax payer money then those monies go to american companies.
american, british, french, russian, chinese and even turkish oil companies have done business in the are for decades. just because an american company, paid for by the us treasury, has the lion share of contracts means nothing.
your an idiot - try and look at what is really going on. we are going to change this region one way another, and not for goddam oil!
Posted by: Dan ||
10/30/2003 18:41 Comments ||
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Both of his sons donât have the capacity to follow on their father
#21
Matt, I know the book you're referring to but have not read it yet. What did you like about it? One of my buddies said it was good stuff. Would be a cool read to see what we did right and what can still improve on.
US troops have carried out raids in Saddam Husseinâs hometown of Tikrit, arresting a number of people they suspect of planning to carry out attacks on coalition forces in Iraq. "We were targeting what we suspect was a terrorist cell network," Colonel Steve Russell told the Reuters news agency. The raid came as the US voiced suspicions that a former senior member of the Saddam Hussein government was co-ordinating attacks from the area.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
10/30/2003 5:53:41 AM ||
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Whenever I read about Tikrit I'm reminded of Lileks's comment about how we could have gone full-Roman on anyone... but we didn't.
This is a town that could sure use a good earth-salting...
Now let us repeat once again, there is no link between Iraq and al-Qaeda. Their ideologies are completely incompatible.
A SENIOR member of Saddam Husseinâs ousted government is believed to be helping coordinate attacks on American forces with members of a terrorist group linked to al-Qaeda, a senior defence official said. Two captured members of Ansar al-Islam have said Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri is helping to coordinate their attacks, the official said today. I suspect this might be fruit of the #3 in Ansar that we picked up awhile ago.
That information is the first solid evidence of links between remnants of Saddamâs regime and the non-Iraqi fighters responsible for at least some of the attacks on US forces and their Iraqi allies. Pentagon officials say Ansar al-Islam, which operated in northern Iraq before its camp was destroyed during the war, poses one of the greatest threats in Iraq. Military commanders have said they believe hundreds of non-Iraqi fighters from Ansar have entered Iraq to fight the US-led occupation, many of them through neighbouring Iran. Which lets Qods Force play host to them while they claim that theyâre "in custody" at IRGC military bases ...
Al-Douri is No.6 on the most-wanted list of 55 Iraqis and was vice chairman of Saddamâs Revolutionary Command Council. He was one of Saddamâs few longtime confidants and his daughter was married to Saddamâs son, Uday, who was killed in a raid by US forces in July. NBC News first reported the al-Douri link to Ansar al-Islam last night. Asked today about the report, Pentagon spokesman Larry Di Rita said he did not know anything about it. Attacks on American troops have surged this week to about 33 a day, up from 26 per day last week and 15 per day in early September. A series of car bombings in and near Baghdad this week killed more than three dozen people. US officials have been searching for months for suspected links between Saddam loyalists and foreign fighters like Ansar members. President Bush and other US officials have said they believe the bombings in Baghdad on Monday were the work of Saddam loyalists, foreign fighters or both.
I'd go with the "both" option...
Pentagon officials say the Baghdad bombings - four explosions in different parts of the city in less than an hour - show a level of sophistication they had not seen before. Di Rita said the bombings indicated coordination "at least at the regional level".
It indicates the existence of a reliable communications network for them. Any idiot can plan and even execute an attack — see Columbine, not "bowling for."
The defence official who discussed the al-Douri link said he did not know if the al-Douri-Ansar alliance was responsible for the Baghdad bombings. He said military officials did not know to what extent al-Douri was coordinating attacks with Ansar. Earlier this month, American forces captured a top associate of al-Douri in Baqouba, a town north of Baghdad. US officials have said for at least two months they suspect al-Douri of coordinating attacks on Americans but had not previously linked him to Ansar. US officials say Ansar al-Islam has links to al-Qaeda and has experimented with producing crude biological and chemical weapons.The group operated in a small section of northern Iraq surrounded by Kurdish-controlled areas which were outside Saddamâs control. Kurdish officials have long alleged that Saddamâs government helped Ansar, but US officials have said they havenât yet found definitive proof of that. The main link was said to be Abu Wael, and as long as heâs in Iran proving the connection is going to be a difficult thing at best. Plus even if we did have Wael or even Saddam and bin Laden on tape plotting against the US, it wouldnât be enough for some people.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/30/2003 1:40:10 AM ||
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Sounds like it's time to open up the pocketbook again, and settle $15-20 million on this fellow's noggin.
What on earth is going on?
One reason the Bush Administration gave for going to war in Iraq was Saddam Husseinâs alleged ties to terrorists. So it is ironic that one of the partners in a big Iraqi firm being used by US contractors in Iraq is also a founding partner in an organization thatâs been identified as helping fund Al Qaeda. So far, however, neither the government nor the contractors have shown much concern. Sadoon Al-Bunnia is one of three principals in one of Iraqâs oldest companies, the Al-Bunnia Trading Company. The Iraqi firm has become a major subcontractor for US firms working under US government contracts in Iraq. But, as documents obtained by The Nation from the Lugano office of the Swiss Federal Commercial Registry show, Sadoon Al-Bunnia is also a founding partner of a Swiss-registered firm called the Malaysian Swiss Gulf and African Chamber (MIGA), which the US government and the United Nations Security Council have designated as funders of Al Qaeda.
MIGA is one of fourteen businesses controlled by Ahmed Idris Nasreddin and Youssef M. Nada. Then-Treasury Secretary Paul OâNeill said in an August 29, 2002, news release that businesses in the Nasreddin-Nada network "appeared to be providing a clandestine line of credit to a close associate of Usama bin Laden and as of late September 2001, Usama bin Laden and his Al Qaida organization received financial assistance from Youssef M. Nada." (Attempts to reach the Al-Bunnia Trading Company in Baghdad were unsuccessful.) Asked about the Al-Bunnia-Al Qaeda connection, Treasury spokesman Taylor Griffin said the law is unambiguous. "The basic story is this: MIGA was designated, Al-Bunnia was not," said Griffin. By "designated," Griffin was referring to the list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists compiled by Treasuryâs Office of Foreign Assets Control. American individuals and firms are prohibited from doing business with any person or organization on the list. "Certainly [Al-Bunniaâs] association with MIGA should raise some due diligence concerns," Griffin said. "But it is not necessarily wrong for a US company to do business with him, and it is certainly not illegal."
Agreeing with that assessment is Bechtel, which signed up the Al-Bunnia Trading Company as its first Iraqi subcontractor to work on the reconstruction of Iraqâs Al Mat bridge. "Al Bunnia was vetted through the [US-led Coalition Provisional Authority]," Bechtel spokesman Howard Menaker said in an e-mail. "During the background investigation, there was nothing found that indicated we could not work with Al Bunnia. Further, there were additional informal discussions with other individuals and advisors to us but again nothing indicated wrong doing nor that we would be precluded from doing business with Bunnia." Another firm with close ties to the White House thatâs angling to help clients win Iraq contracts, GOP lobbyist Haley Barbourâs New Bridge Strategies, proudly announces on its website that its local partner in a consortium bidding on a contract is "led by the Al-bunnia family who are a leading commercial group in Iraq with over 80 years experience in Iraq."
To be sure, who gets put on Treasuryâs "terrorist" list is not exactly a strict science, legal experts say. Georgetown law professor David Cole notes that "groups are designated behind closed doors, in a secret process, without any notice, without any hearing and even without any substantive criteria for what counts as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist. Itâs just a term the Bush Administration made up." Nonetheless, it does seem odd that the US government cares so little about its own efforts to break the chain of Al Qaedaâs financing. But then, the boondoggle that is postwar Iraq appears to operate under a different logic from that used by the Administration to justify the war.
Posted by: tipper. ||
10/30/2003 12:44:48 AM ||
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Stranger Bedfellows is posting this pseudo-pithy little lib piece from The Nation here in Rantburg. Is 'tipper' goring a private ox?
The Nation is an apologist's dream - and was a home for the stone-cold dead "homeless Pal" Apologist General Edward Said. For example, in their editorial eulogy of Said, they close with "A great and distinctive voice is stilled, too soon."
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031020&s=editors2
Luckily, Said's still dead. But not soon enough, by about 30-40 years, IMO.
And this is a typical NaziMedia insinuation piece. Do they have anything approximating proof? If so, great! Just pony up and get Al Bunnyboy & Co on the list - what happens in Iraq is every American's business, now - so be a good citizen instead of a suckass lib slander rag, and put your proof in front of the people who can and will do something with it.
No? Oh dear - then what should you do? Well of course, write an insinuation piece and hope it rubs off on Dubya. Get a quote from a Law Prof who wouldn't know a terrorist from a towel rack and (surprise!) just happens to be the legal affairs correspondent for The Nation - definitely an impartial guy (doh!) - to imply sinister dealings are afoot cuz the list is not debated in a public forum. They imply they talked to several people (legal experts say...). but only name and quote one. Hmmm, so who is this convenient in-house Legal Affairs Advisor to The Nation? Why he's a NaziMedia dreamboat Law Prof! Wotta surprise!
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/curriculum/tab_faculty.cfm?Status=Faculty&Detail=235
BTW, should the powers that be do their deliberations in public regards something as important as the terrorist list? Has this bunch thought it through? Sure they have, but it doesn't serve them in this context, so it's discarded. Not to mention the little problem of giving true terrorists advance notice, what would happen to the unlucky people with innocent connections? It does happen and these clowns would be quick to point it out and do, I'm sure - when it serves their editorial purposes.
An innocent association made public would make anyone a prime target for unfounded allegations from those with an ax to grind - or ox to gore... rather like this fluffy little jewel of pseudo-reporting.
If they have anything solid, this is not how to handle it.
If they don't, this is precisely how to handle it.
#2
Strange bedfellows indeed. The Nation has less credibility than the National Enquirer. Reading this is as convincing as when the Enquirer tells us that GW is an alien.
Much as I applaud all of the interest in the comments box ...
While I agree that there's probably a lot more than should be disclosed about the al-Bunnia Trading Company (BTC), who its owners are, and whether or not there's a connection between it, the Iraqi government, and al-Qaeda.
However, my primary area of concern here is that Sadoon al-Bunia (one of the three principals of BTC) is a founding partner of an al-Qaeda front company. I'm not sure who Ahmed Idris Nasreddin or Youssef M. (Mohammed?) Nada are, but if they're running an al-Qaeda front company we might want to keep track of who their partners are. If Sadoon al-Bunia is still among them, why are they getting contracts? Why not simply save everyone some time and give the money directly to the next Ansar al-Islam thug we catch?
That is the primary reason that I blogged the entry.
#6
Tipper couldn't be Murat - got the Title/Link thing going ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2003 8:51 Comments ||
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My unhappiness, as I noted on my blog, is that if this is true (yes, the Nation is hardly the most objective source in this regard but let's suspend disbelief for a moment) al-Bunnia is still shilling for al-Qaeda they shouldn't be getting US contracts and any contracts they do have should be ended immediately. More to the point, al-Qaeda has used front companies and the like as a means to sneak operatives into countries before, so having one of them involved in Iraq especially just after the recent car bombings is a recipe for disaster.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/30/2003 9:07 Comments ||
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Dan / tipper - you say IF. Until it's proven, Al Bunnyboy & Co shouldn't be tarred & feathered. I am no friend to Arab business - I endured 4 years of getting the run around and/or being screwed by them in Saudi, but you can't call this piece anything but innuendo with an agenda to blacken Bush by association - 2 times removed. The Nation is shit.
What almost immediately blackened Al Bunny for me was the fact that it's a large successful company which grew and prospered during Saddam's time. Common sense says they had to be cooperative at least, and maybe much more at worst. So I read this with that suspicion already present - and they failed to close the loop.
I'd prefer everyone to stop worrying about finding specific AlQ connectivity in everything. Although that is a dead giveaway, I'd say that bad guys who do bad shit and everyone who conspires with them and provides any material support (and I'm not far from adding immaterial support, such as being a ditzy ptool of socialist or Izzoid hate groups) should be prosecuted as part of the WoT - with or without AlQ links. AlQ isn't the nexus of everything...
The last link in a chain is not the most important, just the most conspicuous.
Confirmed by TurkishPress.com, so it looks like a done deal.
Turkeyâs President Ahmad Necdet Sezer considers the controversial issue of deploying Turkish troops in neighbouring Iraq as "closed." It was the first time a Turkish statesman had indicated a serious setback in the deployment plan although the statement did not spell out whether the president thought troops would ultimately be sent or not.
"For me this question is closed," Sezer said on Wednesday at a reception marking the 80th anniversary of the founding of the Turkish republic.
The United States originally asked Ankara for military help in Iraq, but then appeared to back-pedal on the idea in the face of opposition from Iraqâs governing council. "It is very difficult to reconcile the necessary conditions for deploying troops," Sezer was quoted as saying. Seeing as the locals didnât like you guys a whole lot. Canât imagine why.
Turkeyâs parliament three weeks ago voted in favour of the deployment despite widespread public opposition, with some 80% of the public against dispatching soldiers. On Tuesday, Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul accused the US of ineptly handling the issue. From a certain perspective, we handled it very well.
"We are not going to undertake anything as long as there are hesitations ⊠everything concerning us should be very clear, everybody should say yes," Gul said.
Faced with opposition from Iraqâs interim leadership, the US is no more seen to be pushing for the Turkish troops. Many Turkish politicians, including ministers, have expressed relief at the prospect of shelving the deployment plan, which has also come under fire from fellow Muslim nations. Iraqis get what they want, Turks get what they want, and Bush gets to point at uncooperative nations that hinder our bringing the boys home.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2003 12:41:36 AM ||
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Seeing as the locals didnât like you guys a whole lot.
Well appearantly they like the Americans, between all the flowers thrown by the Iraqis sometimes a few RPG rockets follow. Must be their way of celebrating, shooting with kalashnikovs and RPG's in the air that mistakenly land on the Rashid hotel.
Posted by: Murat ||
10/30/2003 5:43 Comments ||
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At first I did not realise Steve, you are quoting Al jazeera. Congrats even I did not use anything from Al Jazeera till now for being accused with biased views, you surprize me!
Posted by: Murat ||
10/30/2003 7:23 Comments ||
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heh..heh...popular, those Turks. Must all be as pleasant as Murat.
#4
Murat, I as well as Steve W, quote a lot of biased papers. Al-J, Jihad Unspun, Asia Online, Arab News, BBC, Daily Star, etc. If they are REALLY biased, I always put their name in the top of the post as a warning. Even in some of their most outrageous stories, you can find a few nuggets of information that you can't find anywhere else. If nothing else, it gives you a view of how the other side is thinking. That is almost as important as the facts themselves.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 8:43 Comments ||
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Good, keep them home. More trouble then they're worth. We trained w/them back in 98' in some area outside Incirlick(sp?). They have some gung ho folks and some totally hard-ass soldiers but deplorable SOPs when it comes to things like safety and maintaining clean/operational equipment. They had some of the dirtiest/rustiest weapons I'd ever seen. I was surprised because we heard how they'd been dealing w/the Kurds and such for years. During one of their formations (or roll call) one morning some moron actually had a round in the chamber of his weapon and the damn thing went off. We laughed our asses off. Lucky no one got killed.
#6
Two questions about the deployment of Turkish (or, God forbid, Pakistani) troops in Iraq:
1. Exactly who and what does one expect an army from a Muslim country to defeat?
2. Putting Muslim troops into Iraq is like putting what on a fire?
Posted by: John ||
10/30/2003 9:57 Comments ||
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Turkeyâs President Ahmad Necdet Sezer said, "If we can't kill Kurds we see no point in sending troops to Iraq."
That's a paraphrase of his comments of course, but I think they're accurate as towards the intent.Inviting Turkey in was a bad idea to begin with. Kurdistan is the part of Iraq that works, why throw a monkey wrench into now.
Police in Indonesia say they have arrested two more suspects in connection with the Marriott hotel bombing in August. The two men were detained in west Java during a police raid. One of the two suspects is believed to have helped assemble the car bomb which exploded outside the entrance of the hotel killing 13 people including the bomber. At least 12 people are now being held in custody in connection with the attack. The two men were arrested during a pre-dawn raid of a hotel in the town of Cirebon in west Java. (knock knock) "Room service"
Police say they also found explosive devices during the operation, including pipe bombs. The two suspects have been identified only as Ismail and Tohir. They are on the list of five key suspects identified by police shortly after the Marriott hotel bombing. The remaining three include Noordin Mohammad Top, identified by police as the ringleader of the Marriott attack, and a Malaysian citizen called Azahari Husin, who is accused of assembling both the Marriott explosives and the bombs used in the nightclub attacks in Bali last year. Indonesiaâs police chief, Dai Bachtiar, said he believed that Noordin Mohammad Top and Dr Azahari were nearby when Ismail and Tohir were captured. "We found a house where the others had stayed," he said, "but they had already escaped." "Missed them by that much."
Intensive efforts are now under way to find them.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 8:51:14 AM ||
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More details: In the first raid at dawn on Wednesday, police swooped on two men with explosives in a hotel room in the town of Cirebon, 140 miles east of Jakarta, arresting a man identified only as Tohir and an accomplice, who had attached bombs to their bodies in a bid to avoid capture. "They were reaching to their backpacks when police besieged them, but failed to trigger the switch," Erwin Mappaseng, head of the national police criminal investigation department, told a news conference. He said the men had selected targets for an attack, including a foreign bank on a busy street in the nearby city of Bandung, southeast of Jakarta. Two Malaysian men, including top electronics expert and bombmaker Azahari, wanted in connection with last year's Bali bombings that killed 202 people and the August Marriott hotel blast that killed 12, escaped a police raid with a quantity of explosives in Bandung later on Wednesday night.
He was accompanied by a man identified as Noordin, whose name also features prominently on most wanted lists, police said. Tohir, who was captured in the morning raid, is a key suspect in the Marriott blast in Jakarta, national police chief General Da'i Bachtiar told reporters.
"We have detained two people, Tohir and Ismail," Bachtiar said. He said Tohir was one of those who was ready to be part of a suicide squad to attack the Marriott. The police chief had previously said Tohir was among five of Southeast Asia's most wanted militants thought to be hiding in Indonesia. Police said Ismail was believed to have helped to make the Marriott bomb along with Azahari. "Based on confessions from the two men (Tohir and Ismail), Azahari was planning to carry out more attacks but hopefully with the arrest of these two men he may stop the plan," Bachtiar said.
No, but he'll have to regroup. That may give you time to find him.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 10:43 Comments ||
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Wonât his imam be proud of him. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, believed by U.S. officials to be the leading al-Qaida figure operating inside Iraq, has quietly joined the exclusive list of terrorists who has a $25 million reward on his head. He joins only Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden and bin Ladenâs two deputies, Ayman al Zawahiri and Saif al-Adil, on that elite list. Worst of the worst. Guess heâs moving up the food chain these days ...
THE FIVE MEN are on the U.S. governmentâs Rewards for Justice Web site, along with several others whose capture would bring lesser rewards. Most, but not all, of the others are lesser lights in al-Qaida and other terror groups. Zarqawi, a 37-year-old Jordanian, was added on Tuesday, said one U.S. official, who spoke to NBC on condition of anonymity. There had not been any reward on his head until that point. The move suggested Zarqawi is now seen as one of the leading suspects in the wave of bombings in Baghdad and elsewhere in Iraq. âWe really want this guy,â said the official, adding that the U.S. intelligence community is not certain where he is operating, but that he appears to move frequently between Iraq and Iran. I guess that fits with the Farsi for "in custody" these days ...
The size of the reward is five times that of most of those on the Rewards for Justice site, which is managed by the State Departmentâs Diplomatic Security Service and the FBI. Two of those with $5 million rewards on their heads, Fazul Abdullah Mohammed and Imad Mugniyah, are both seen by U.S. intelligence as terrorist masterminds: Mohammed is believed to be the leader of the cell that carried out the East Africa embassy bombings in August, 1998, and Mugniyah the military commander of Hezbollah and responsible for planning the embassy and Marine Barracks bombings in Beirut in April and October of 1983. Wow, he beats Mugniyeh for the top spot. What a swell guy ...
Even Saddamâs two sons, Uday and Qusay Hussein, carried only $15 million rewards on their heads. An Iraqi has been paid $30 million for information that led to the attacks that killed the two and Qusayâs son earlier this year in Mosul. Zarqawi is believed to be a member of both al-Qaida and Ansar al-Islam, U.S. officials said. âItâs like being a member of the Rotary and the Chamber of Commerce,â said another U.S. official, who also spoke on condition of anonymity. âBeing a member of one doesnât preclude membership in the other.â Especially when the former runs the latter as a subsidiary.
A longtime follower of bin Laden, Zarqawi was severely wounded in the U.S. attacks on Afghanistan last year and lost a leg. He reportedly received medical attention in Baghdad after escaping from Afghanistan through Iran. In the wanted poster on the governmentâs Web site, Zarqawi is described as having had âa long-standing connection to senior al-Qaida leadership and appears to be highly regarded among al-Qaida and a close associate of Osama bin Laden and Saif al-Adil,â the al-Qaidaâs military commander. They had tea together back February to talk about starting the current troubles weâre having in Iraq since their Euro plots had fizzled.
U.S. intelligence believes the Jordanian planned and helped execute the assassination of Laurence Foley, the U.S. AID official, in Amman last October. Prior to the Iraq war, Zarqawi gained notoriety when administration officials, including Secretary of State Powell in his U.N. speech on Feb. 5, cited his ability to get medical attention in Baghdad as evidence of a connection between Iraq and al-Qaida. That belief was not shared by all in the intelligence community, and congressional investigators have subsequently cast doubt on the quality of the information about Iraq gathered by the administration ahead of the war.
But that particular item looks like it's holding up well...
For example, the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in the past six months has hurt the credibility of the governmentâs case at home and abroad.
... which has nothing to do with Zarqawi, does it?
Zarqawiâs network also was reported to have established a poisons and explosives training camp in Kurdish-controlled northwestern Iraq prior to the war.
CNN showed the Dead Doggy films...
He was indicted in absentia in Jordan for his role in the al-Qaidaâs Millennium bombing plot targeting the Radisson SAS hotel in Amman as well as other American, Israeli and Christian religious sites in Jordan.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/30/2003 1:46:02 AM ||
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#2
$25,000,000 is the going rate once you factor in inflation -- according to the Inflation Calculator. Steve Austin first appeared in 1973, and $6 million then is equivalent to $24.8 million in 2002 (the last year the calculator suppports).
#3
Of course! Inflation! So by now he's prolly on-par with $25M - good for Steve! Hmmm... think he's part of the Conspiracy?
Now I'm wondering about Lindsey, the $6M Woman... I hope they didn't get her stuff on sale (the Shopping Geneâ¢) cuz that would mess the calculations up pretty badly.
Sudanâs government has rejected Darfur rebel demands that would have allowed a resumption of negotiations. Press reports published in Khartoum on Thursday confirmed the conditions presented by rebels from Sudanâs western state - such as international monitoring of the negotiations - had been rejected.
"Nope. Nope. Can't have any of that! Don't you... trust us?
"The sending of international monitors to Darfur is ruled out because this will be an internationalisation of the problem," Foreign Minister Mustafa Ismail was quoted by the official al-Anbaa daily as saying. The two sides had been conducting proximity talks with Chadian mediators in Abeche up until last Saturday, but have not yet sat at the same negotiating table together. Ismail said his government had consistently attempted to solve the Darfur problem "in a bilateral framework" with the rebel Sudan Liberation Army (SLA). Khartoum had accepted the Chadian mediation "in view of the mutual security concerns and the tribal inter-relationship between the two countries."
"If you can't rely on your cousin, who can you rely on?"
The SLA delegation has insisted the government should accept three demands in addition to the international monitors. Rebels have called for disarming pro-government militias, protection of civilians and safe passage of relief supplies to SLA-controlled areas. SLA official Usman Bushra says thousands of civilians have been killed by the Janjaweed militia, adding: "Our losses after the ceasefire were much more than during the fighting."
That's a pretty typical occurrence in Sudan, isn't it?
However, Bushra stressed his movement would continue to abide by the September Abeche agreement which included a ceasefire between the two sides.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
10/30/2003 22:00 ||
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That's the headline from al-Jizzsplat. I did not write that headline!
An American Muslim leader charged with illegally accepting money from â and travelling to â Libya has had his request for bail denied. Although the court ruled Abd al-Rahman Alamoudi was not a danger to the community on Thursday, District Court Judge Claude Hilton denied his bail request and set the next hearing for 16 February 2004.
I think it was something about being a flight risk...
Hilton said he considered al-Amoudi well-connected abroad with a knowledge and ability to raise funds, and therefore represented a serious flight risk.
That's what I said...
The judge's decision will come as a blow to a man who worked with the US State Department under the Clinton administration in the 1990s as a goodwill ambassador to Muslim countries.
Worked wonders, didn't he?
The ruling comes despite dozens of affidavits and testimonies from diverse members of the community who have known him for over 20 years and described his trustworthiness and sincerity.
Which community? Well... the Islamic community...
A former executive director of the American Muslim Council and the president of the American Muslim Foundation, al-Amoudi was a respected figure on the Washington political scene. He was a guest at the White House a number of times during the Clinton years and donated money to several politicians during the 2000 election campaign. More recently, he has also met President George Bush.
But then...
A spokesman for the Peace and Justice Foundation, Mawri Salakhan, said denying such a prominent American citizen bail was a disgrace, if not unexpected. âIf a non-Muslim had been accused of a similar offense, they would have received a civil fine rather than sitting in jail for five months. This amounts to guilty until proven innocent.â
"Yeah! They let Billy Carter off!"
Salakhan added that there were plenty of other options such as house arrest coupled with electronic surveillance monitoring, given al-Amoudiâs extensive personal and business ties to the community and his international prominence.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
10/30/2003 21:55 ||
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#1
Sorry, Abd al-Rahman Alamoudi, you just ran out of free passes. Going to Libya and accepting cash is a no-no, and you cannot buy your way out of this one. Welcome to the cross bar hotel. You should have stayed in Libya, but you got careless and arrogant. Have a nice stay day. Maybe Bubba will put in a good word. OTOH, Bubba will probably steer clear o' the likes o' you from now on.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/30/2003 22:20 Comments ||
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#2
OK spin this story however ya want--but the majority of Muslims supported Bush--didn't want no Joo a heartbeat away from the Presidency
RANTBURG eat your heart out.
For those who worry the United Nations doesnât already deal with enough red tape, the UN General Assembly began discussing a proposal to set up an international tax organisation. Enough to chill the hearts of shady criminals and opponents of bureaucracy alike, the proposal was first spelled out by UN Secretary General Kofi Annan in a report earlier this year. He recommended that an existing 25-person committee be expanded and upgraded to an "intergovernmental body" -- in other words, an international group along the lines of other UN agencies like UNICEF and UNESCO. The assembly began considering the proposal as part of a two-day "high-level dialogue" on how to finance international development that will feature officials from the World Bank and other key trade and financial institutions. "This is not something that would write tax codes or set global taxes," Timothy Wall, a UN information officer, told AFP.
"... at least, not yet."
"But there are a lot of sloppy, messy tax issues out there." Wall said the proposed organisation would act as a forum to help countries spell out their own standards and principles so that they could better coordinate tax policies. One issue, for example, would be corporations who "play countries off against each other" to get the best tax rates when deciding where to build new factories — a matter he said was crucial for developing nations. "Countries that should be building up their tax bases end up eroding them" by offering corporate tax breaks, he said. Woohoo- Tax the rich countries, give to the poor dictatorships. A truly utopian, socialist World.
#3
Like many UN initiatives, this is a solution looking for a problem. Welfare states get to reduce tax competition with non-welfare states. Thanks but no thanks. Can you see China agreeing with this one? I don't. This is something only the EU could love - I suspect developing countries will stay far, far away from this, given their use of tax incentives to lure foreign investment.
#4
As if we needed further proof the UN is in-fucking-sane....
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/30/2003 18:25 Comments ||
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#5
remember the phrase:
"No taxation without representation"? We do...and we aren't represented in the General Assembly. I'd like to see this become a question to GWB and the Dem candidates in the coming election
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2003 19:38 Comments ||
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#6
Kofi sees that things are not going good for the UN in the international security business, so he is branching out, looking for suckers opportunities. Nice try, Kofi. You can get together with your buddy Chiraq and see if this turd will float.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/30/2003 19:52 Comments ||
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#7
Everyone should verify where their representatives stand on this issue. Bring this idea to the floor of Congress and there will be a national hissy fit that will make the California recall look tame. We're talking tar and feathers.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/30/2003 20:02 Comments ||
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#8
I agree this is total crap, but I'm not sure I understand Frank G's comment about us not being represented in the General Assembly. The US has a UN Ambassador that represents us in the General Assembly.
#10
I think what Frank G means is that we will always be outvoted in the UN General Assembly, even though we pay at least 25% of the UN budget, and ALL of the diplo's parking tickets, so to speak.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/30/2003 20:58 Comments ||
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#11
on the money AP, thks
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2003 21:29 Comments ||
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"But there are a lot of sloppy, messy tax issues out there." Wall said the proposed organisation would act as a forum to help countries spell out their own standards and principles so that they could better coordinate tax policies. One issue, for example, would be corporations who "play countries off against each other" to get the best tax rates when deciding where to build new factories â a matter he said was crucial for developing nations.
Oh yeah, sounds innocuous enough. Anyone want to bet that as time goes on, this little organization would morph into something more insidious?
#13
Like the Bishop of Kirkuk said, the UN is dead. We need to tell Kofi, preferably while he's on top of the building, waiting for a helicopter to land. The "no taxation without representation" wasn't just that we didn't have representatives in Parlaiment, but that we had no say in how the money raised was being spent. We're on the verge of a tax revolt in this nation as it is. Something like this could be the final straw to push a large percentage of the population over the edge. Between this crap and "Internet taxes", the American people are about to be confronted with a horrendous soaking, as our government tries to get our tax level up there equivalent with those of Europe. We don't need those ruinous taxes, we don't want those taxes, and we won't stand for those taxes.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
10/30/2003 21:36 Comments ||
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#14
AP--don't EVEN get me started about the Diplo plates when I lived in NYC taking all the scarce/expensive parking spaces--not to mention a few citizens killed--one on Park Ave doing 80 mph
More at the link. Also check out this for a pic of the Mufti with Hitler.
.... in 1943 Mufti Haj Amin el-Husseini travelled several times to Bosnia, where on orders of the SS he recruited the notorious "Hanjar troopers," a special Bosnian Waffen SS company which slaugh-tered 90% of Bosniaâs Jews and burned countless Serbian churches and villages. These Bosnian Muslim recruits rapidly found favor with SS chief Heinrich Himmler, who established a special Mullah Military school in Dresden.
The only condition the Mufti set for his help was that after Hitler won the war, the entire Jewish population in Palestine should be liquidated. After the war, Husseini fled to Switzerland and from there escaped via France to Cairo, were he was warmly received. The Mufti used funds received earlier from the Hilter regime to finance the Nazi-inspired Arab Liberation Army that terrorized Jews in Palestine.
Husseini represents the prevalent pro-Nazi posture among the Arab/Muslim world before, during and even after the Holocaust. The Nazi-Arab connection existed even when Adolf Hitler first seized power in Germany in 1933. News of the Nazi takeover was welcomed by the Arab masses with great enthusiasm, as the first congratulatory telegrams Hitler received upon being appointed Chancellor came from the German Consul in Jerusalem, followed by those from several Arab capitals. Soon afterwards, parties that imitated the National Socialists were founded in many Arab lands, like the "Hisb-el-qaumi-el-suri" (PPS) or Social Nationalist Party in Syria. Its leader, Anton Saâada, styled himself the FÃŒhrer of the Syrian nation, and Hitler became known as "Abu Ali" (In Egypt his name was "Muhammed Haidar"). The banner of the PPS displayed the swastika on a black-white background. Later, a Lebanese branch of the PPS â which still receives its orders from Damascus â was involved in the assassination of Lebanese President Pierre Gemayel.
The most influential party that emulated the Nazis was "Young Egypt," which was founded in October 1933. They had storm troopers, torch processions, and literal translations of Nazi slogans â like "One folk, One party, One leader." Nazi anti-Semitism was replicated, with calls to boycott Jewish businesses and physical attacks on Jews. Britain had a bitter experience with this pro-German mood in Egypt, when the official Egyptian government failed to declare war on the Wehrmacht as German troops were about to conquer Alexandria.
After the war, a member of Young Egypt named Gamal Abdul Nasser was among the officers who led the July 1952 revolution in Egypt. Their first act â following in Hitlerâs footsteps â was to outlaw all other parties. Nasserâs Egypt became a safe haven for Nazi war criminals, among them the SS General in charge of the murder of Ukrainian Jewry; he became Nasserâs bodyguard and close comrade. Alois Brunner, another senior Nazi war criminal, found shelter in Damascus, where he served for many years as senior adviser to the Syrian general staff and still resides today.
Sami al-Joundi, one of the founders of the ruling Syrian Baâath Party, recalls: "We were racists. We admired the Nazis. We were immersed in reading Nazi literature and books... We were the first who thought of a translation of Mein Kampf. Anyone who lived in Damascus at that time was witness to the Arab inclination toward Nazism."
These leanings never completely ceased. Hitlerâs Mein Kampf currently ranks sixth on the best-seller list among Palestinian Arabs. Luis Al-Haj, translator of the Arabic edition, writes glowingly in the preface about how Hitlerâs "ideology" and his "theories of nationalism, dictatorship and race⊠are advancing especially within our Arabic States." When Palestinian police first greeted Arafat in the self-rule areas, they offered the infamous Nazi salute - the right arm raised straight and upward.
The PLO and notably Arafat himself do not make a secret of their source of inspiration. The Grand Mufti el-Husseini is venerated as a hero by the PLO. It should be noted, that the PLOâs top figure in east Jerusalem today, Faisal Husseini, is the grandson to the FÃŒhrerâs Mufti. Arafat also considers the Grand Mufti a respected educator and leader, and in 1985 declared it an honor to follow in his footsteps. Little wonder. In 1951, a close relative of the Mufti named Rahman Abdul Rauf el-Qudwa el-Husseini matriculated to the University of Cairo. The student decided to conceal his true identity and enlisted as "Yasser Arafat."
#3
Indy Media?!!!! The Indy media constantly refers to "Zionists" (Jewz) as Nazis. Israel is fascist, etc... This article just underscores the real facts of history. And sheds light on Arafats true creed.
Hat tip: Drudge
Japanese space agency officials, already forced to temporarily shut down one satellite, said Thursday they had lost contact with a second satellite that may have been affected by an electromagnetic storm caused by the largest solar flare observed in decades. "We have completely lost touch with the Midori 2, and donât know whatâs going on with it," said Junichi Moriuma, a spokesman for the agency, known as JAXA. He said the agency is trying to restore communications. "At this point, we donât know if there is a relation between this accident and the solar flare," he said. "We are still in the process of figuring out what caused the problems." Moriuma said communications with the satellite were lost on Saturday, amid the heightened solar flare activity. He said the solar flare is believed to be the second biggest ever observed and happens only once every couple of decades. He said the agencyâs main concern is that the particles and radiation emitted in the flare might destroy computer sensors.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/30/2003 4:21:41 PM ||
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#1
Midori-wa, doko ni arimasuka?
If I remember my rusty Japanese....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/30/2003 16:40 Comments ||
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#2
It's interesting that we have not reported any problems. I wonder if our satellites are better protected. Not that we'll ever know, unless they're attacked in wartime.
#6
Thirty years ago, in remote locations up here we used HF at frequencies between 3400 and 14000 khz for long distance phone patches. Solar activity (sunspots) often screwed up comm. It was pretty quiet sometimes.....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/30/2003 20:41 Comments ||
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#7
Maybe the new Long Dong missile from Kimmie took it out?
THE SPEAKER OF THE SYRIAN Propaganda FOREIGN MINISTRY CONDEMNED ATTACKS ON HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATIONS IN BAGHDAD. SHE SAID IN A STATEMENT: âSUCH OPERATIONS AGAINST THE INNOCENT⊠CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE INTERESTS OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE AND ARE TERROR ACTS.â (AL-BAâATH, SYRIA, 10/29/03)
Unless, of course, you have a Syrian passport......
(2003-10-30) -- The Senate version of the Head Start reform bill would rename and âre-missionâ the Great Society program. Instead of trying to prepare poor children for school in hopes of enhancing achievement, âSlow Startâ will enroll children from middle-class and wealthy families and attempt to "confuse and de-motivate them" so that they wonât excel their peers from low-income families.
âSlow Startâ is part of the Democrat partyâs new âNo Child Leaved Aheadâ program, designed to prevent underachievers from suffering self-esteem drainage when they note the superior performance of their classmates.
"Our nation was founded on equality," said Massachusetts Senator Edward M. Kennedy. "But the poor kids will never catch up if we donât do something to trip up the rich kids."
Mr. Kennedy expects that enrollment in the âSlow Startâ program will exceed Head Start in its first year.
"Most well-off people have just lucked into their money," said the Senator. "They feel guilty about how their clever little prodigies always bust the grading curve. They would love to do something to level the playing field, and theyâre willing to stoop to conquer inequality."
An article published in the Lebanese daily Al-Nahar, Syrian-Christian journalist Michel Kilo, who is a member of the Syrian reform movement "The Civil Society," strongly criticized the actions of the Syrian regime. The following are excerpts from the article:
Syrian Leadership Doesnât Realize Its Grave Situation
"To a great extent, some of the [Syrian] officials, in their official statements and discussions, overlook the [looming] dangers. In their view, the world is still in bliss and the Syrian administration is in control of the domestic and international spheres, and is capable of deflecting the negative affects of the international situation on the domestic arena.
"It seems that [in their view] only outside matters could be a source for concern, while the domestic situation is calm, because the reins are still in their hands. âNothing is new,â maintain those who want to delude themselves or want to keep their eyes shut from seeing reality. However, anyone who opens them and sees what is going on will see the following plain truths:"
An Anti-Syrian Offensive that Emanates from the Moderate State Dept. Could Turn into Fire
"In the [U.S.] Congress there is a furious offensive [against Syria]. Some of the proponents of delusion in the [Syrian] administration dismiss its importance, because it took place in a sub-committee. They were silenced when [the sub-committee] heard from an aide to the moderate Secretary of State, Powell, a testimony that included unprecedented blunt ideas and threats, in a language uncommon in international relations. This testimony is a message that teaches us that [Powell] is not the only decision maker in the State Department. An offensive that emanates from the moderate State Department could turn into fire by the time it reaches the hawks at the Department of DefenseâŠ"
Hat tip Protest Warrior
Complaining that the anti-war rhetoric used by some of the Dhimmicrat Democrat beauzeauxmoonbats presidential candidates is putting the lives of American soldiers at risk, retiring Sen. Zell Miller, D-Ga., announced Wednesday night that he was backing President Bush for re-election.
Ethel, get the salts!
Asked about the harsh attacks directed at the Bush White House over the Iraq war, Miller told Fox News Channelâs Sean Hannity: "It makes me ashamed. Itâs a disgrace for anyone to talk about - talk like that in a time of war." Miller then blasted his fellow Dems. "Using this war for political advantage can only give hope to our enemies. And when you do that, thatâs going to cost lives."
But I thought Dean said dissent for the sake of dissent was noble, that it's true freedumb of speech? Do you... ummm... dissent from that statement?
The Georgia Democrat added that while he didnât question their patriotism, "I certainly question their judgment." "And their IQ."
"You know, if some of these folks had been living back [in] that April night in 1775 when Paul Revere came riding through, saying, âThe British are coming, the British are comingâ - if Howard Dean was living back then he would have yelled out the window, âShut up, Iâm trying to get some sleep in here!â Sounds like Dean all right.
"Itâs a disgrace," Miller reiterated, before endorsing President Bush. "Iâve given this a lot of thought. I think that George Bush is the right man in the right place at the right time," he told Hannity. The lifelong Democrat explained, "The way I see it is that these next five years are going to be crucial in determining the kind of world my grandchildren and great-grandchildren live in. As free people or dhimmis.
"And I donât entrust that to any of these folks that are running out there on the Democratic side." Miller said that Bush "reminded me somewhat of Churchill. I think heâs got some Churchill in him. He understands the history of freedom. He knows where it came from and heâs not afraid to take a side. Thatâs the kind of man I want in there as commander in chief."
#1
There's a guy who's really got his eye on the ball.
Posted by: Matt ||
10/30/2003 15:33 Comments ||
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#2
Zell Miller is about as much a Democrat as Tom DeLay. I guess he's a "Quislingcan" a/k/a Southern Democrat
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/30/2003 16:10 Comments ||
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#3
Perfect summary of the political situation - and echoes the precise reasons I will vote for Bush. I don't vote by party, never have, and don't buy into the whole program of any of the organized looters, er parties. But the WoT is as real as it gets and as important as it gets: survival.
He's on the right track, but if Bush indeed rises to Churchill's level of leadership, we are well and truly a fortunate country. I hope Bush fares better at the hands of American voters than Churchill did with the Brits - and I will do my part to see he does.
Kudos to Zell Miller, class is rare, and Thx for the post!
#4
NMM, Zell Miller is not a republican. He is a Democrat from 1962. He didn't change; the party did.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/30/2003 19:50 Comments ||
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#5
He was a GEORGIA Democrat in '62. Given what that meant on the great issue of the day, it's not entirely a bad thing they changed.
On the other hand, I don't agree with Zell Miller about much, but given the big issue of this day, Bush may be my first Republican Presidential vote since Ford, too. If we get the WoT right, we can fix the rest later.
#7
NMM - opposing patriotism for partisan gain huh? Oooooohhhh McCarthyism! Cheap hacks by cheap people - I'm losing my patience, time to call a spade a spade
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/30/2003 21:18 Comments ||
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#8
OK lemme 'splain myself--if you look back on Congressional history--the Southern Democrats often provided the majority by voting with GOP lawmakers--the Democrats were always a "house divided" NYC/Boston/Cleveland/Chicago Democrats were not the same politically as a GA Democrat--ever--finally Nixon with his brilliant Southern strategy was able to break the lock on the South in the GOP favor--just look at Texas --how many judges came out of the closet and joined the GOP?
.com might know--but it was a major sea change--and the Dems hold NO statewide offices there now the same thing has happened in the SE--it will soon be the solid South for the GOP The one thing I WILL give the GOP credit for is even their half/assed liberal GOP members from the Northeast vote in goose step with their political masters ion Dallas and Houston
#10
if you REALLY think .com ever voted for a Democrat I have a really nice bridge to sell you--it connects Brooklyn to Manhattan--lotsa cars--you can put up a toll booth............
CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa -- The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said revised plans for a Muslim youth camp on Coralville Lake should be ready by next summer. The corps ruled the camp must be about half the size of its original plan. Muslim Youth Camps of America is working to build the camp on 106 acres near North Liberty. The original plan called for $2 million in construction, including 10 cabins, a lodge, a beach, boat dock and paved parking. The corps approved the groupâs request for the camp in June, but said the project must be scaled back. Camp organizers hope to meet with architects this month to start work on a revised proposal. Anyone wanna place bets on whether this place will teach the kiddies Jihad or not?
My eyes are sore from all the rolling they've been doing lately...
#2
I hear the Paleos are going to work as Camp Counselors. Courses in bomb making, sniping, Quran quoting , and victimization will help the campers develop into good little Jihadists. Has everyone heard enough about Islam? I only wish they spent a tenth of the time talking about the OTHER religions in the world.
#4
Whether they teach the kids jihad or not, understand this well: This land will be considered Muslim land, part of the umma, and will not be given back. Ever.
#6
I went to school at U of Iowa many years ago, less then ten miles away from this lake. The area is beautiful, and there isn't any desert for a thousand miles. The University has a large number of faculty and students from the middle east. My guess is this camp will be used for R&R for the sons of the faculty, and for grad students. Iowa is fairly conservative, but the campus itself is extremely liberal. When I was there, if you weren't a member in good standing with SDS, you weren't anybody. Whose brilliant idea was this anyway?
#9
Interesting point Slumming--I went to Ohio U and our "sister school" was in Malaysia--there were lots of Islamic students paid for by the US Gov--MANY from Algeria and Tunisia--most studying engineering plopped down in the middle of Appalachian Ohio. I always wondered whose idea THAT was
The Air Forceâs plans for the upcoming base realignment and closure round could include an aggressive policy of closing Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard facilities and moving their units to active bases, Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. John Jumper suggested Wednesday (Oct 22). Although guard and reserve facilities usually involve far fewer jobs than active duty bases, they often have high political profiles, which could make the proposal controversial in Congress and state governments. Ya think?
Jumper discussed the possible merger of active and reserve units during a speech at a Capitol Hill forum held by DFI International. After proclaiming that the "Total Force" concept of melding active, reserve and guard units has been tested in combat and proven its worth, Jumper suggested their activities needed to be even more thoroughly merged. "There are ways to combine units and we have to think about it," Jumper said. He said the Air Force was exploring the possibility of combining active, guard and reserve personnel into new squadrons that will receive the new F/A-22 and F-35 fighters. "Where we have active duty units in close proximity to guard or reserve units doing about the same thing, it is hard for us to justify the extra expense of keeping those two places open, guarding those two bases to the higher standard that we have to guard them to after [Sept. 11, and] duplicating command structures, when they could be together," he said. Makes real good sense for the Air Force, after the cuts the active force has taken there should be plenty of ramp space for the Reserve and Guard assets. They have been working closely with the active force for a long time anyway.
Jumper did not provide any details or mention the base closing process in connection with that comment. Launch the trial balloon, and see how much AAA you draw.
But the prospect of closing Air Guard and Air Force Reserve facilities more than doubles the potential targets for the base-closing process, which is scheduled for 2005. There are 85 Air Guard and Air Force Reserve stations around the nation in virtually every state, many of them at civilian airports. A lot of these are very small units as well.
There are about 60 active Air Force bases in the United States, although some do not have operational aircraft. Well, some of those donât have runways, so itâs kind of hard for the aircraft to land.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 1:55:00 PM ||
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#1
The Guard and Reserve bases are, first and foremost, payola to the Congressional district. The likelihood of any significant closures is slim.
#3
Even when Da Mayor got behind it, it took forever to move the Reserve unit from O'Hare Airport in Chicago (only the busiest airport in the wolrd) to Rockford, a two hour drive. People went crazy. It finally happened, and Da Mayor now has more land for more airport, so it can be done. I wouldn't get my hopes up.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2003 15:59 Comments ||
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#4
I think it's important to have the Army and Air Force bases and reserve units distributed throughout the country. If something is important enough to go to war over, the reserves should always be called up and it's best to have all corners of the country involved and affected.
My brother flys Navy aircraft out of Oklahoma. That's different. A Navy base in Oklahoma is an example of stupidity and pork.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/30/2003 19:57 Comments ||
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#5
Good idea... we need way, way fewer bases. Luckily I live near the indispensiable ones.
#7
How about Roosevelt Roads in P.R.? SH should know about that place. If were giving Vieques back (total bull shit imho, been there & have a good story on it but not for now) Rosey Roads is useless other than free cha-ching for the locals.
#8
PR--cut them loose--the NYC welfare rolls would drop--big time--American idiocy has sent these assholes to pollute our greatest city--free Puerto Rico now!--make it independent and subject to out (laughable) immigration laws
ST. LOUIS - When he first saw her, he immediately knew she was the girl he wanted to marry. More than eight decades later, George Limpert still thinks his wife, Amelia, is the most beautiful woman he's ever seen. It's been 82 years since they were married, and they're still there for each other. They hold hands. Both use wheelchairs now, so he carries a mechanical grabber to pick up anything she drops. They're still very much in love, but their relationship had a few false starts. It took George a year to win Amelia's heart, and even then her family didn't approve. Three times their engagement was broken. She never understood why they didn't see what a good man he was, so finally the couple decided to elope. They were married Sept. 9, 1921. A month later, the devout Catholics had a formal marriage ceremony. She was 18, he 20. "She was everything I wanted, and that's all," George Limpert, now 102, told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. His wife is now 100.
I hope they have many more, together...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
10/30/2003 11:38 ||
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#1
This is cool! Congratuations to both of them. I hope my marriage lasts half as long....
Woody Allenâs "Bananas" becomes real life...
Venezuelaâs populist president, Hugo Chavez, has declared an early Christmas this year. ...and wear your underwear on the outside so we can check.
In a televised address to the country he announced: "Tonight the Christmas dances have started... Weâre going to start preparing the Christmas food. From now on we can start saying Merry Christmas and a prosperous 2004!" HO-HO-HO!
Last Christmas Venezuela was paralysed by an oil strike and business lockout. Many people had no fuel to cook their Christmas dinners and there was also a severe shortage of beer. No beer! It was hell!!!
On Wednesday night a military band played traditional festive music while soldiers and Chavistas danced in the streets under a banner reading "The People and Armed Forces recovering our cultural heritage and the spirit of Christmas". Hugo says itâs Christmas! Dance, peasants!
There are as yet few signs that others have heeded the presidentâs call, although one Caracas garage has erected a snowman and a red-suited Santa, which are sweltering under the hot sun. Not a good sign, Hugo. Who do you think you are, Fidel?
Posted by: tu3031 ||
10/30/2003 10:10:56 AM ||
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Ah, from Al Guardian. Sigh. Chevy is a megalomaniac and I predict an ugly end... That day will be Christmas for the Venezuelans. Al Guardian, unfortunately, will be here until the end of time, droning on and on and on...
Thatâs ok, we refuse to think theyâre intelligent also.
Iran said yesterday it would not share intelligence with the United States about Al Qaeda members it is holding and dismissed US charges that anti-American fighters were slipping across its borders into Iraq. "No, no! Certainly not!"
US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said Washington was prepared to resume limited contacts with the Iranian government but that relations would not improve until Tehran shared intelligence on Al Qaeda. "We donât have any relations with American security services so there is no reason to do anything on this issue," government spokesman Abdollah Ramazanzadeh said. Other than the fact that the current Administration has a long memory.
President Mohammad Khatami rebuffed a call by President George W Bush on Tuesday for Iran and Syria to tighten their borders to stop fighters crossing into Iraq. "The accusations are not new, they have always made such baseless charges," Khatami said. Washington broke off talks with Tehran over Iranâs neighbours Afghanistan and Iraq in May after accusing Iran of sheltering Al Qaeda members behind bombings in Saudi Arabia on May 12 which killed 35 people, including nine Americans. Iran denies cooperating with Al Qaeda and says it has caught and extradited hundreds of suspected members of Osama bin Ladenâs network who fled from Afghanistan and Pakistan in the last two years. "Whereâd you extradite them to?"
"Um, ... somewhere."
Ramazanzadeh noted that Armitageâs comments on resuming talks with Iran were the first such remarks from a US official for some time but added that Tehran was waiting for Washington to take "practical steps" to improve relations. "It is not possible to threaten a country, to block its assets, to accuse it and then want talks," he said. Sure it is, when the country in question is hurting enough.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2003 12:49:59 AM ||
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...Tehran was waiting for Washington to take "practical steps" to improve relations... "It is not possible to threaten a country, to block its assets, to accuse it and then want talks," he said.
"You must kiss our, uh, turbans and show proper respect. After all, we are holy men. Then we will grant you an audience. How does late 2004 - early 2005 look for you? We will give you a sign when we are ready. Do you know what rocket vapor trails look like? Good, that will be it. We will be ready to, um, talk, then."
A joint U.S.-Israeli laser cannon can knock down rockets in flight, but it will not be ready for battlefield use until at least 2007, an official with the company developing the weapon said Wednesday. "And you Paleos thought that our evil Death Ray⢠was just propaganda! Bwa-ha-ha!"
The system, called Tactical High Energy Laser (THEL), uses an advanced radar to spot and track incoming rockets and then fires a laser beam to destroy them. Israel is interested in the THEL, called the Araphish Nautilus in an earlier version, because of the threat from rockets on its border with Lebanon. During an 18-year guerrilla war that ended in 2000, Syria and Iran-backed Hezbollah guerrillas often fired small, unguided Katyusha rockets at Israeli border towns. Though there have been no such attacks since Israel withdrew from southern Lebanon in May 2000, Israeli officials have said that Hezbollah now has 11,000 rockets aimed at Israel. Lots of batting practice for the THEL. Bob Bishop, media relations manager for Northrop-Grumman Corp., which is developing the system, said it has passed tests at the White Sands, N.M. facility since 2000. "It has shot down a number of Katyusha rockets and artillery shells, too," he told The Associated Press in a telephone interview from Los Angeles. The test at White Sands marked the first time that a rocket has been destroyed in flight by a laser beam. Wonder what the range is?
However, the test version of the system is stationary, and it could not be deployed in the battlefield until it is made mobile. That could happen in 2007, he said, if all the contracts are signed and production continues. The project appears in the U.S. defense budget for fiscal 2004 with a $56 million allocation, he said. It was passed by Congress and signed by President Bush on Sept. 30. Israel will also contribute funding, but Yuval Steinitz, chairman of the Israeli parliamentâs foreign affairs and security committee, did not know how much. Congress also approved a further $89 million for a second joint U.S.-Israeli project, the Arrow anti-ballistic missile system, which has already entered production, Steinitz said. The system is operational and was deployed during the recent U.S.-led war in Iraq to guard Israel against the possibility of an Iraqi missile attack. The Syrian, Egyptian and Jordanian military commanders just canât be happy â no matter what aid they get from elsewhere, they fall further behind every day.
R&D is one of those infidel Western concepts. It's intended to distract good Muslims from their Koran readings. And jihad is so much easier...
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2003 12:27:45 AM ||
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S'okay, take heart mujahids, Allah will provide... something...
Bwahahahahahahaha!â¢
Bwahahahahahahaha!⢠is a Registered Trademark of one of the Conspiracy of Steve guys. No, I dunno which one.
#2
WAAAY cool! I can imagine that within 50 years we will have a packaged tracer/laser that can protect large airports economically. I'd like to dream that it could detect and fry shoulder launched rockets within 10 miles of the airport. We need it a lot sooner!
#4
Published range of current THEL is 5 KM. They are working on increasing the power for the mobile version.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/30/2003 8:29 Comments ||
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#5
Something that can track and destroy rockets and artillery shells should be able to handle a much slower target of flesh and bone, I would think.
Tomorrow's headline:
"Yassir Spontaneously Combusts While Crossing Street"
Posted by: Dar ||
10/30/2003 9:20 Comments ||
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Bulldog Shiny skin won't do it. The laser's damage comes in part from the physical impact of the light photons arriving in a group, so there is KE involved in the equation.
Perhaps somebody that knows more about this could speak up, 'cuz I'm not explaining it well. I'm going off an article I remember reading in the late 80s that was debunking a lot of the claims on how the USSR could negate SDI, and the shiny skin defense was one of the things it discredited.
I am not sure where the article first appeared, but I encountered it in a collection of sci-fi stories (There Will Be War I think was the series name) put together by Dr Jerry Pournelle. He used to tag political essays between the stories (one those books is also where I first encountered David Horowitz who wrote an article on Vietnam).
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
10/30/2003 9:37 Comments ||
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Any chance that a simple reflective (or other) coating applied to the missile could deflect enough of the beam's energy to render it harmless?
Part of the process (and high cost) of developing battlefield weapons is to ensure that simple workarounds don't defeat the weapon in question.
#10
From what I understand lasers will be pretty common in the US arsenal in 10-20yrs. Fighter planes, tanks, warships. New designs will account for the increased need for electrical energy to power some kind of solid state laser. The ABL is already using a huge chemical laser but this would be impractical for anything smaller than a 747.
The major draw back of a laser weapon is it can only be used in clear weather. Anything that could fracture the beam before it hits its target would be an effective counter measure, smoke, mist, cloud cover etc.
#11
Shiny skin doesn't stay shiny when there's rocket exhaust in the neighborhood.
Sabots, or stages?
And re. the reflective skin - surely a mirrored surface will at least delay the effects of the laser - even if just by a fraction of a second (unless it's the KE that determined the effect). If missiles are incoming in salvoes, couldn't this enable more to slip through a laser defence, as it takes longer switching from target to target?
#13
Spot See, this is why I was hoping somebody that knew more would chime in. *g* With a bit of Google, I found out that the rest mass of a photon is zero, and I got the following here:
Though the mass of a photon is zero, it nevertheless carries energy and momentum. The two are related through
p = E/c
where c is the speed of light and p is the momentum and E the energy of the photon.
When a photon strikes a surface, it may be absorbed or reflected. In either case, momentum is transferred from the photon to the object whose surface is struck. In this way, a force (time rate of change of momentum) is exerted on the struck object, giving rise to the notion of 'radiation pressure.'
If the photon is absorbed, the struck object acquires the momentum of the photon. If the photon is reflected, so that the photon rebounds with the same magnitude of momentum, but oppositely directed, conservation of momentum demands that the momentum transferred to the struck object is twice the (magnitude of the) momentum of the incoming photon.
Generally, if a beam of photons strikes a surface, some photons will be reflected and some will be absorbed. Therefore, the radiation pressure exerted by a beam of light incident upon a surface falls somewhere in the range between the minimum theoretical value when all incident photons are absorbed and the maximum theoretical value when all incident photons are reflected.
I hope there's not a test later...
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
10/30/2003 10:34 Comments ||
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#14
Now all we need is the star destroyer to go under it. Kimmy? I'm looking at your house, Kimmy!
#16
Hmmmm, I remember reading somewhere that there is still research going on for a repeat fire X-ray laser. This would greatly reduce the degredation caused by weather or smoke. Would make a nasty anti-personel weapon.
#17
I ran some of the early airborne laser antimissile tests back in the late 70's. The destruction mechanism, at least then, was heat transfer. The devise literally burned through the missile.
#18
Laurence has it essentially correct, (the definition of the energy release of a photon thru momentum is correct) but what happens when a laser strikes a target, even if its a mirror is that energy is released over time in a certain surface area. So for tactical warfare laser weapons need a high impulse rate (watts/joules per time unit) and a low surface area coverage (say square centimeters or even millimeters measurements). The energy release over time is critical however, for instance a 100 megawatt laser that only releases 100 kilojoules per second may not do much to a missile other than illuminate it a bit, whereas a 25 kilowatt laser that can deliver 2 MEGAjoules per second could smack that missile so hard it'd feel like it got hit by a mountain. One last thing to remember is that lasers also HEAT a target up...even if its mirrored, again this depends on the impulse rate.
Posted by: Val ||
10/30/2003 14:46 Comments ||
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Another thing to remember is that having a shiny skin only works at certain wavelengths. All you need is a laser with 2 or 3 careful selected wavelengths in rotation or combined. At least in one of those wavelength shiny isn't so shiny anymore
From Middle East Newsline.... Now US states what Debka, et. al. have been saying for quite some time.
For the first time, the U.S. intelligence community has released an assessment that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction were transferred to neighboring Syria in the weeks prior to the U.S.-led war against the Saddam Hussein regime. U.S. officials said the assessment was based on satellite images of convoys of Iraqi trucks that poured into Syria in February and March 2003. The officials said the intelligence community assessed that the trucks contained missiles and WMD components banned by the United Nations Security Council. The U.S. intelligence assessment was discussed publicly for the first time by the director of the National Imagery and Mapping Agency in a briefing in Washington on Tuesday. James Clapper, a retired air force general and a leading member of the U.S. intelligence community, said he linked the disappearance of Iraqi WMD with the huge number of Iraqi trucks that entered Syria before and during the U.S. military campaign to topple the Saddam regime. "I think personally that the [Iraqi] senior leadership saw what was coming and I think they went to some extraordinary lengths to dispose of the evidence," Clapper said. "Iâll call it an educated hunch." Maybe this is the start of a calculated effort on the part of the US to go for Syria, since they are not cooperating on the WoT. We will just have to see what happens next.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/30/2003 12:22:20 AM ||
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I think it's more a semi-subtle way of pointing out to the lunkheads in Damascus that we can find a causus belli if we really want to. They're dirty, and everyone knows it.
#3
It was in the 29 Oct Wall Street Journal as well.
Posted by: Brian ||
10/30/2003 2:20 Comments ||
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#4
Gertz wrote about it in the Washington Times as well.
Posted by: Daniel King ||
10/30/2003 10:09 Comments ||
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I heard a news report on the radio this AM about the Senate Intelligence Committee's work on the WMD "issue." I wonder if this "official" assessment was issued to counteract the perceived political effort of the committee. The administration has been playing its cards close to its chest on this issue, even though there has been much speculation about WMD going to Syria before the war.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/30/2003 11:01 Comments ||
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#6
I said this months ago, but who cares? Maybe I'll start a liberal think tank and see if I can get those fools to throw tons of money at me. Beats working for a living...
#7
Mark your calendars boys, here we go...I estimate sometime after next year's elections...(yeah going out on a limb, I know )
Aris, taking you at your word (a mistake, probably, but what the hell...), you are onboard with us now that we are building a casus belli for Syria, right ? Right ?
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
10/30/2003 12:38 Comments ||
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#8
I still find it very hard to believe that Saddam, who expected the Yanks were bluffing, would pass along his WMD to Syria who has not been a on and off enemy despite their Bath party allegences.
I find it hard to believe that Syria, watching the US buildup to invasion of Iraq would take the WMD and set themselves up as next in line.
#9
Carl> "Aris, taking you at your word (a mistake, probably, but what the hell...), you are onboard with us now that we are building a casus belli for Syria, right ? Right ?"
Let's say that I'm *more* onboard with you where Syria is concerned than I was with Iraq.
But, really people, WMDs *again*?? Can't you find a casus belli slightly less stupid than this? Given how Syria is (IIRC) in a declared state of war with Israel and occupies Lebanon and such stuff, I really don't think that the idiocy called "WMDs" is really your best choice here by far.
And if you don't find WMDs there either, it'll be somewhat difficult, geographically speaking, to convince people that Syria then somehow managed to pass them on to Iran. :-D
Re Iran, no need to convince us that Syria "passed" anything on -- we don't really believe that oil-rich Iran needs a nuke plant, so there's the casus belli right there...
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
10/30/2003 18:23 Comments ||
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For once I agree---unlimited oil reserves and the asses need nuclear power-----NOT
Congressional negotiators agreed Wednesday on an $87.5 billion aid package for Iraq and Afghanistan that meets a White House demand that none of the money be provided as loans. Despite rising criticism in Congress over the handling of the war, the package worked out by House-Senate negotiators largely resembles the proposal submitted by President Bush. The House and Senate are expected to act quickly to give the bill final approval before it goes to Bush for his signature. But both Republicans and Democrats expressed frustration over what they described as the White Houseâs disdainful treatment of Congress on Iraq. "You bump up to a degree of arrogance over and over," said Rep. Frank Wolf, R-Va. Rep. David Obey of Wisconsin, the top Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, said "it is an act of considerable statesmanship for a lot of people in this place to continue to support what the president is trying to do in Iraq given the smidgen of information weâre getting in return." But Republicans, including Wolf, rejected a Democratic proposal that would have required Senate confirmation for Bushâs civilian administrator in Iraq, the position held by L. Paul Bremer. Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., rejected Democratic claims that this would make the administration more accountable. "Iâm not at all sure that the American people equate accountability with confirmation by the United States Senate," he said. The way some confirmation hearings have gone, heâs probably right.
The bill includes $64.7 billion for military expenses, $18.4 billion for Iraqi reconstruction and security forces and $1.2 billion for Afghan reconstruction, according to figures released by the House Appropriations Committee. Bush had requested $65.1 billion for military expenses, $20.3 billion for Iraq reconstruction and security forces, and $800 million for Afghan reconstruction. Given the padding in the original numbers, the Prez did pretty well.
The loan issue was the most divisive item as the House and Senate tried to resolve differences between their versions of the bill. Loan supporters said U.S. taxpayers are already spending plenty on Iraq and that the countryâs vast oil reserves should enable it to pay back some of the money eventually. Under the Senate bill, Iraq would not have had to repay the loan if other countries forgave 90 percent of the debt Iraq ran up under toppled leader Saddam Hussein. On Wednesday, World Bank President James Wolfensohn called on the United States and other rich nations to forgive at least two-thirds of Iraqâs foreign debt. Okay by me but we didnât loan Saddam any money. I doubt Jacques, Gerhardt and Vlad will go along ...
Bush threatened to veto the bill if the loan provisions were included. He and congressional Republican leaders argued that Iraq was already too deeply in debt to borrow more money and that there was no Iraqi government with the authority to take on new loans. Domenici said the grants are needed to quickly improve conditions in Iraq and get U.S. troops home. "America will be recompensed 50 times over if this thing gets ended and they have a strong country," he said. "This money weâre arguing about will be a pittance when they become our friends in the international markets of oil." Sorta like Europe, which means that in 50 years the Iraqis will be smoking Galouches and be insufferably arrogant.
But Obey noted that much of the new aid pledged by other nations at an international donorâs conference last week was made as loans. "It seems to me that weâre asking the U.S. taxpayers to be Uncle Sucker instead of Uncle Sam," he said. No, itâs just the Europeans playing the role of Cousin Cheap.
Senate conferees voted 16-13 not to insist on their loan amendment with their House counterparts. All Republicans voted no. One Democrat, Sen. Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, also opposed the loans. They also agreed to create a temporary position of Iraq inspector general to oversee the spending of the money. Not a bad idea.
The House could vote as soon as Thursday; the Senate would act sometime after the House does.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2003 12:21:34 AM ||
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Iâm not at all sure that the American people equate accountability with confirmation by the United States Senate,"
#2
B - LOL! The US Senate is, indeed, the fount from which flows all wisdon, goodness, light, 20/20 hindsight and political shenanigans.
Regards Rep Obey, just picture his political campaign signs stuck in every yard along a street... Makes me think of that killer Roddy Piper flick, "They Live"... "I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."
#3
"They also agreed to create a temporary position of Iraq inspector general to oversee the spending of the money"
I knew Bush would find a job for "Kenny Boy" a/k/a Kenneth Lay -- I mean now that he's unemployed and did give Bush all that money....
Posted by: Not Mike Moore ||
10/30/2003 12:34 Comments ||
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#4
Uh, Mikey, where does it mention the name of the person who will be IG, or was that pulled from the nether regions of someone's buttocks? That's some imagination you have there...
#5
Oh Darn! Another Bush victory! I guess I will go get a pedicure/massage, take a long soak, and think about this election. Anyone seen my toenail polish?
#6
I knew Bush would find a job for "Kenny Boy" a/k/a Kenneth Lay ...
C'mon, NMM, you gotta read Rantburg better: this job will go to Zell Miller. He just set himself up for it. He'll resign early from the Senate and that will really starch some shorts.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/30/2003 16:02 Comments ||
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#7
Naw, Jimmuh gonna be the inspector general... he's a damn cold ringer for D. Kaye.
#8
Senator Byrd (D) Wamsutta? Are you talking about one of those textile companies that closed down their mills and put thousands outta work in the Carolinas? Don't worry Liddy Miss Havisham Dole is looking out for them as their jobs go to Mexico, Pakistan, etc! She's thinking about them as she rides Bob's Viagra enhanced member all the time
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
