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2022-05-21 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
NY Times Urges Biden to De-Escalate War in Ukraine & Launch Peace Talks ("It's Getting Complicated")
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Posted by Patrocles 2022-05-21 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11133 views ]  Top
 File under: Tin Hat Dictators, Presidents for Life, & Kleptocrats 

#1 Russia's on the March now. Breakthroughs in Luhansk, encircling Ukrainians at Severodonetsk, moving tens of thousands of troops north rom Mariupol.

Luhansk's Ukrainian-friendly governor reports that the province is now "90 percent controlled" by the Russians.

The NY Times (likely Tom Friedman, maybe Sanger too) is probably hearing from their Deep State and IC insiders that Biden and Austin need to climb down and start exploring serious peace talks with Russia.
Posted by Patrocles 2022-05-21 00:22||   2022-05-21 00:22|| Front Page Top

#2 Should have stayed out of it from the beginning. Find the back door and stay out of neighborhood bar brawls. We don't live around there. Stay out of it and go home.
Posted by Besoeker 2022-05-21 01:47||   2022-05-21 01:47|| Front Page Top

#3 Stalin killed more of his own than Hitler killed. He invaded Poland with Hitler, then annexed the Baltic States. He then without provocation invaded Finland. He sponsored the Comintern to destabilize western democracies. Yet when Hitler invaded the Soviet Union guess who became the 'good guy'.

If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. Winston Churchill
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-05-21 10:14||   2022-05-21 10:14|| Front Page Top

#4 Yaknow, if the globalists can spark a nuclear war, that would go a long way towards their goals of depopulation.

Like they've been saying was one of their main goals.
Posted by Blackbeard Unereck7174 2022-05-21 10:49||   2022-05-21 10:49|| Front Page Top

#5 Another Establishment voice, Charles Kupchan, now calls for de-escalation and a peace agreement. In The Atlantic, Kupchan writes:

"Kyiv’s right to fight for complete territorial sovereignty does not make doing so strategically wise. Nor should Ukraine’s remarkable success in repelling Russia’s initial advance be cause for overconfidence about the next phases of the conflict. Indeed, strategic pragmatism warrants a frank conversation between NATO and Ukraine about curbing Kyiv’s ambitions and settling for an outcome that falls short of 'victory.'"
Posted by Billy Budd 2022-05-21 12:04||   2022-05-21 12:04|| Front Page Top

#6 "Victory" at this point us stopping the slaughter of their peole and the destruction of the world's economy.

Biden and Austin are deluded. They think they're destroying Russia. Wrong: They're actually destroying us.

End this pointless war. End it now.
Posted by Patrocles 2022-05-21 12:09||   2022-05-21 12:09|| Front Page Top

#7 Indeed, strategic pragmatism warrants a frank conversation between NATO and Ukraine about curbing Kyiv’s ambitions and settling for an outcome that falls short of 'victory.'"

IOW, we might need to curb our little puppet Zelensky.
Posted by Abu Uluque 2022-05-21 12:25||   2022-05-21 12:25|| Front Page Top

#8 How bout curb stomp the entire beltway faction that has made their careers out of Ukraine intrigue?
Posted by M. Murcek 2022-05-21 12:43||   2022-05-21 12:43|| Front Page Top

#9 How about we curb stomp the aggressor?

And isn't it cute how defending yourself gets cast as "ambitions"?
Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-05-21 12:49||   2022-05-21 12:49|| Front Page Top

#10 How about we curb stomp the aggressor?

I wish all the people who are so hot to trot on doing that would just suit up and go to it and leave the rest of us out of it.
Posted by M. Murcek 2022-05-21 13:04||   2022-05-21 13:04|| Front Page Top

#11 #8 How bout curb stomp the entire beltway faction that has made their careers out of Ukraine intrigue?

YES. Kick these bastards out. End their meddling and intrigues.

They've fucked up enough countries. Give them golden parachutes and shove them out before they crash the plane
Posted by Astaire 2022-05-21 13:05||   2022-05-21 13:05|| Front Page Top

#12 #7 IOW, we might need to curb our little puppet Zelensky.

Curb our little puppet lapdog. The little Ukrainian terrier that bit the rabid Russian wolf's ankle and caused this whole mess
Posted by Billy Budd 2022-05-21 13:10||   2022-05-21 13:10|| Front Page Top

#13 Peace agreement? oh, you mean Piece Agreement. Ceasefire - that quiet time between protagonist reloading.
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-05-21 13:19||   2022-05-21 13:19|| Front Page Top

#14 Does Putin want the war to end?
Posted by Matt 2022-05-21 13:21||   2022-05-21 13:21|| Front Page Top

#15 Timing is everything! Now that the $40,000.000.000 is going to go to all sorts of places with all sorts of back-channels to the Swamp and grease to keep the Hunter Biden/Jojo corruption hermetically sealed, now its Bob's Your Uncle and give "peace a chance" in the NYT! Amazing coincidence, or it's just the payoffs are accomplished, graft withdrawal pains soothed, and let's find a C-17 baby-food photo-op to quiet the rubes and focus on Monkeypox and the mid-terms as a counting strategy.
Or is that too jaded a view of Imperial Washington?
Posted by NoMoreBS 2022-05-21 13:25||   2022-05-21 13:25|| Front Page Top

#16 the $40000.000.000 is going to go to all sorts of places with all sorts of back-channels to the Swamp and grease to keep the Hunter Biden/Jojo corruption hermetically sealed, now its Bob's Your Uncle and give "peace a chance" in the NYT! Amazing coincidence, or it's just the payoffs are accomplished,

Cut our losses. Biden's hyperinflation is costing every US household at least $7,000 a year. That's about $1.5 trillion stolen from Americans. If it requires $0.04 trillion in payoffs to the Biden Family, the Ukraine Grifters, the War Lobby and the rest of our Swampies to stop destroying the US economy, it's a bargain.

Pay the Danegeld to our nation's First Car ckhead, the Big Guy, Pelosi and McConnell, Manafort, Sally Painter, the MIC and the rest of the lot.

And get us the hell out of that other swamp as fast as possible.
Posted by Patrocles 2022-05-21 13:33||   2022-05-21 13:33|| Front Page Top

#17 ^ OK, but does Putin want the war to end?
Posted by Matt 2022-05-21 13:43||   2022-05-21 13:43|| Front Page Top

#18 Our Syrian adventure was a botchjob - for no benefit to America whatsoever.
Same for our Libyan intervention.
Same for our Afghan intervention.
Same for our Iraq intervention.
Same for our Somalian intervention - and Biden and Nuland are dragging us back into Somalia for a double dip.

How much longer will we tolerate this bullshit? We have nothing to gain by intervening and dragging out this stupid war.
Posted by Billy Budd 2022-05-21 13:53||   2022-05-21 13:53|| Front Page Top

#19 ^ OK, but does Putin want the war to end?
Posted by Matt 2022-05-21 13:56||   2022-05-21 13:56|| Front Page Top

#20 He might: Finland and Sweden being denied NATO membership along with Ukraine, might be enough. If you sacrifice a chunk of eastern Ukraine that you haven't controlled the last 6-7 years, officially. If not, I suspect in the next 2-months or so we'll suddenly see Kyiv under bombardment. Not harmful, or a lot, but just enough. Lightly singe it to make a point.
Posted by Charles 2022-05-21 14:06||   2022-05-21 14:06|| Front Page Top

#21 The West is fracturing. Draghi, Scholz and Macron are all calling for peace talks.
Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-05-21 14:06||   2022-05-21 14:06|| Front Page Top

#22 And so is the Kremlin:

Russian Ambassador hints that some Kremlin officials want war to end
Posted by Matt 2022-05-21 14:14||   2022-05-21 14:14|| Front Page Top

#23 ^ The EU just gave the green light to buying Russian gas with rubles, on Russian terms.

France, Italy and Germany will not support Biden and Austin's obsession with escalating and dragging out the war. That's in the interest of no one -- except the corruptocrats in Washington, London and Kyiv.
Posted by Astaire 2022-05-21 14:15||   2022-05-21 14:15|| Front Page Top

#24 And there are no corruptocrats in Moscow? Endemic corruption is a defining characteristic of the Putin regime
Posted by Matt 2022-05-21 14:21||   2022-05-21 14:21|| Front Page Top

#25 But back to my original question: Does Putin want the war to end?

(And I thank Charles for his response.)
Posted by Matt 2022-05-21 14:22||   2022-05-21 14:22|| Front Page Top

#26 Russia has achieved her primary objectives. The capture of Mariupol and destruction of the fascist battalions ensures that Russia will keep NATO from seizing Crimea and Sebastopol. Ukraine's economy is destroyed and it will cost the US trillions to build it ... Iraq cost the US $1.6 trillion and that was in pre-inflation dollars. Ukraine will cost more, perhaps twice as much. The US is stuck with this albatross, which is a win for Russia. It is in Russia's interest to consolidate her gains and settle now.
Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-05-21 14:28||   2022-05-21 14:28|| Front Page Top

#27 I hope u are rt Jean Paul.
Posted by Besoeker 2022-05-21 14:29||   2022-05-21 14:29|| Front Page Top

#28 And I partially agree with Jean Paul also. I don't like seeing 20-year old Russians and Ukrainians killing each other for geo-political reasons I don't understand. But what's the name of the guy who gave the order to invade Ukraine? Starts with a "P". For some reason our visitors never want to talk about him.
Posted by Matt 2022-05-21 14:35||   2022-05-21 14:35|| Front Page Top

#29 It is a great and persistent mistake of the Anglo-Saxon leaders to personalize international relations. Each American president swings from extreme to extreme, thinking he can stare into the "soul" of foreign leader 'X' and then announcing that he is either an angel or a demon.

Stalin the mass murderer became Uncle Joe. Putin was a noble Christian allied with the West against radical Islam; now he's another Hitler.

The Viet Cong were evil communists with whom no agreement was possible; then Nixon and Kissinger went to Paris and signed a Peace Treaty with them (and won the Nobel Peace Prize). They toasted the biggest butcher of modern history in Beijing and formed an alliance with him against Russia.

Reagan said the Soviets would always and everywhere lie cheat and steal; two years later he shook hands with the Soviet leader and cut the nuclear arsenal in half.

American foreign policy would be much more successful if America's current leaders would try to put aside emotion and think calmly, rationally and strategically as Nixon and Kissinger did.
Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-05-21 14:51||   2022-05-21 14:51|| Front Page Top

#30 Why would Russia trust the US to keep any proposed agreement after breaking so many others?
Posted by Cloluck Bourbon1058 2022-05-21 15:05||   2022-05-21 15:05|| Front Page Top

#31 Jean-Paul, that's an excellent comment, although, respectfully, you might have dispensed with the Anglo-Saxon jibe. I understand that sooner or later Russia needs to be brought back into the fold. My narrow focus here is our visitors who speak as though neither Russia nor Putin personally have any responsiblity or agency with respect to the Ukraine war. That's just not true.
Posted by Matt 2022-05-21 15:08||   2022-05-21 15:08|| Front Page Top

#32 Russia will retain Crimea and the entire "land bridge" along the southern coastline. That gives them the ability to choke off any Ukrainian exports and destroy any chance of recovery should the US go back on the agreement's terms. Ukraine for its part will keep all the US tactical weaponry that will enable them to stave off potential Russian attacks coming down across Ukraine's northern border.

Ukraine can defend itself vs Russia.
Russia can defend itself from NATO.
Ukraine's fascists are in Russian-controlled prisons.
Russian troops evacuate all areas north and west of Severodonetsk.
Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-05-21 15:11||   2022-05-21 15:11|| Front Page Top

#33 Also: Ukraine is neutral both officially and in practice. All western / NATO troops and advisers leave Ukrainian territory.

New Ukraine is divided and heavily militarized but not aligned to or in any way part of NATO.
Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-05-21 15:14||   2022-05-21 15:14|| Front Page Top

#34 So much bs and apologies in the rantburg today….
Why not actually accuse the filthy CIA for provoking The Russian Federation! That CIA bunch of bastard filth for the last 60 years is plotting behind the back of Americans any sort of criminal act
Against the American citizens and their perceived boogie man’s
Fk them all!
Posted by Glains Phainter8584 2022-05-21 15:14||   2022-05-21 15:14|| Front Page Top

#35 The hundreds of billions in Russian assets stolen by the US will be used to defray a small portion of the US $3 trillion expenditure to build Ukraine over the next 10 years. The rest will be paid for through a combination of increased debt and tax increases on middle class Americans.

Ukraine becomes America's next white elephant / military-industrial trillion dollar boondoggle.
Posted by Astaire 2022-05-21 15:22||   2022-05-21 15:22|| Front Page Top

#36 Jean-Paul, see: emotions aren't limited to Anglo-Saxons.

So, Astaire, does Putin want to end the war?
Posted by Matt 2022-05-21 15:27||   2022-05-21 15:27|| Front Page Top

#37 If it's in his interest to do so, of course.
Posted by Astaire 2022-05-21 15:34||   2022-05-21 15:34|| Front Page Top

#38 Good. I'll quote you on that.
Posted by Matt 2022-05-21 15:36||   2022-05-21 15:36|| Front Page Top

#39 ...well for now. Till he wants chunk of another piece of someone's pie. They're all ceasefires in wars that will go on till one side or the other is reduced beyond its capacity to engage in such activity.
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-05-21 16:07||   2022-05-21 16:07|| Front Page Top

#40 It's childish to think that a great nation (or any nation) is motivated by anything except self-interest. America pursues its interests defined mainly in terms of power and so does every other nation. It's a hallmark of stupid globalism to assume otherwise.
Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-05-21 16:39||   2022-05-21 16:39|| Front Page Top

#41 ...ah, but the Globalist who are indeed in power in Washington loath Americans. Their actions are for their interests and not America [see no border on the South as a clear demonstration of that].
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-05-21 16:54||   2022-05-21 16:54|| Front Page Top

#42 #40 The Frenchmen I met at Colleville-sur-Mer seemed to have a different view.
Posted by Matt 2022-05-21 17:17||   2022-05-21 17:17|| Front Page Top

#43 What savages would invade a country that didn't threaten them and destroy its entire infrastructure in a few days like this?
Posted by W. Wholly Unjustified Invasion 2022-05-21 17:17||   2022-05-21 17:17|| Front Page Top

#44 What savages would invade a country that didn't threaten them and destroy its entire infrastructure in a few days like this?

But in this case, it is the savages being destroyed.
Posted by badanov 2022-05-21 17:26||   2022-05-21 17:26|| Front Page Top

#45 The globalists are bringing "tolerance" to Ukraine the way they did to Kabul - tolerance of pedophiles and worship of Black killers and terrorists. Murals from a school in Donetsk that was recently liberated from the globohomos.
Posted by W. Wholly Unjustified Invasion 2022-05-21 17:40||   2022-05-21 17:40|| Front Page Top

#46 OK, but does Putin want the war to end?

Impossible for me to know the man's mind but I'm not entirely certain that Putin ever wanted the war to start. Looks like it might have been a preemptive action to keep NATO's Tomahawk missiles with their nuclear warheads off his front doorstep where they could reach Moscow without any Russians ever seeing them coming.

Further, it seems a bit disingenuous for Biden to talk about standing up for democracy in Ukraine when 1) our State Department was almost certainly involved in the Maidan coup and 2) you'll never convince me that all those mail-in ballots in 2020 were legitimate. Democracy, huh? Sure, Joe. I bet he wants democracy in Russia too. Sure he does.

I think the better question is: Does Biden want the war to end?
Posted by Abu Uluque 2022-05-21 18:03||   2022-05-21 18:03|| Front Page Top

#47 ..it might have been a preemptive action to keep NATO's Tomahawk missiles with their nuclear warheads off his front doorstep

So, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia are to be next.
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-05-21 18:44||   2022-05-21 18:44|| Front Page Top

#48 Ref #46 - Jojo wants whatever the teleprompter and the earphone tells him he wants, except in regard to his choice of pudding cup after 5pm. The question is what best serves the strategy of the Kalorama Kompound and what further weakness/chaos/discord can be induced domestically before the upcoming mid-terms and South China Sea War Games, version 2.0. At the end of the day, its that coalition with the deep pockets to buy the Puppet Show's cast and content.
Posted by NoMoreBS 2022-05-21 18:54||   2022-05-21 18:54|| Front Page Top

#49 Gentlemen...you may wonder why you were invited here.

-scratches white cat, Smooth Criminal type armed militia comes in from the shadows-

Nobody leaves this Cornell West Spoken Word Jazz Concert until everyone comes to peace terms.
Posted by swksvolFF 2022-05-21 19:30||   2022-05-21 19:30|| Front Page Top

#50 ^LOL, that's some damn funny right there.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2022-05-21 20:24||   2022-05-21 20:24|| Front Page Top

#51 It's in Putin's interests to trade $$$ for strategic territory.

The centerpiece of a lasting deal would be to allow the USA to keep the hundreds of billions it seized from Russia in exchange for allowing Russia to keep the southern coastline ("land bridge"), take receivership of the bankrupt Nikolaev Shipyard and give autonomy to the eastern provinces it seized.

Land for piece (of flesh), so to speak. Land for Uncle Vlad and a several tonnes of flesh for Uncle Shylock.

That's a fair exchange and far preferable, for everyone involved, to another 8 years of slaughter, destruction and poverty.
Posted by Palmerston 2022-05-21 21:41||   2022-05-21 21:41|| Front Page Top

#52 So, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia are to be next.
Followed by Finland, Poland, Sweden, Germany, ... Paranoid "Self-Defense" never sleeps (Case example was how the Romans defended themselves by marching ever outwards...until stopped hard.)
Posted by magpie 2022-05-21 21:42||   2022-05-21 21:42|| Front Page Top

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