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2021-07-26 -Short Attention Span Theater-
How Intelligent Is Our Intelligence Community, Really?
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Posted by Besoeker 2021-07-26 04:12|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [348 views ]  Top

#1 "Central Intelligence Agency. There's an oxymoron."

Bart Mancuso, skipper of USS Dallas in The Hunt for Red October
Posted by M. Murcek  2021-07-26 07:05||   2021-07-26 07:05|| Front Page Top

#2 responsible for collecting, analyzing, and delivering ... information to America's leaders so they can make sound decisions to protect our country

What if they want information only on how to screw the country?
Posted by Dron66046 2021-07-26 07:09||   2021-07-26 07:09|| Front Page Top

#3 What if they want information only on how to screw the country?

Then they've come to the right place...
Posted by M. Murcek 2021-07-26 07:11||   2021-07-26 07:11|| Front Page Top

#4 "How Intelligent"?
They're smart enough to hold on til retirement.
Posted by ed in texas 2021-07-26 10:31||   2021-07-26 10:31|| Front Page Top

#5 One of the big problems of the Intelligence Community is that you have to shade your output to what the POTUS is willing to hear. It does no good to give him accurate info if he is going to ignore you. This has been a problem since at least LBJ.

The other problem is the CIA lawyers. Many CIA procedures are twisted beyond recognition in order to bring them into compliance with legal.
Posted by Sheretch Glusomp2560 2021-07-26 11:09||   2021-07-26 11:09|| Front Page Top

#6 So I get it, we love to complain. But lets put it in perspective, yesterday the was a near 200 rant event here on the burg. All arguing over the COVID shot. What's true? What's a lie? What's just a belief? etc... Then it gets angry, then it gets to attacking credibility. That whole event is a mirror of our intel community, NOBODY on that thread yesterday knows the truth, period. And in the intel community the truth is again, not known. Getting it right, just like the COVID discussion, is almost impossible and subject to more hard work and getting lucky, than factual. Every one, and every agency has their charter and and they make decision based on their views, just like in yesterdays thread.

After 911 they tried to reorganize to better facilitate sharing. But that did not work. Some of it was an unwillingness to share over operational, or personal, concerns. But what I saw was a group of agencies running at full speed and unable to take any more info. Like sharing gas for your car, but the tank is already full, most of the shared fuel goes to waste and not used. The intel shared did not have the appropriate screening for relevance due to too much info being processed. managing the load of info is overwhelming, then pass that on to another agency as an FYI, it gets lost.
Posted by 49 Pan 2021-07-26 11:21||   2021-07-26 11:21|| Front Page Top

#7 /\ Many CIA procedures are twisted beyond recognition in order to bring them into compliance with legal.

Executive Order (EO) 12333 being a prime example.
Posted by Besoeker 2021-07-26 11:21||   2021-07-26 11:21|| Front Page Top

#8 The legal side of it makes it a wonder they can even operate at all.
Posted by 49 Pan 2021-07-26 11:43||   2021-07-26 11:43|| Front Page Top

#9 Too many cooks
Posted by M. Murcek  2021-07-26 11:52||   2021-07-26 11:52|| Front Page Top

#10 Shouldn't the statement "17 agencies agree" be a clue there are 15 or 16 too many?
Posted by M. Murcek  2021-07-26 11:55||   2021-07-26 11:55|| Front Page Top

#11 And let's remember those 17 agencies all agreed the pee dossier was real.
Posted by M. Murcek  2021-07-26 11:56||   2021-07-26 11:56|| Front Page Top

#12 How many dead GIs for Colin Powell's "Slam Dunk?"
Posted by M. Murcek 2021-07-26 12:00||   2021-07-26 12:00|| Front Page Top

#13 Remember they missed the "fall" of the Shah of Iran....
Posted by crazyhorse 2021-07-26 13:51||   2021-07-26 13:51|| Front Page Top

#14  But lets put it in perspective, yesterday the was a near 200 rant event here on the burg. ... That whole event is a mirror of our intel community, NOBODY on that thread yesterday knows the truth, period.

Bless you for the insight that turned the thing I found so distressing into a very useful demonstration, 49 Pan. What ought we to do about them all, then? They can’t be left running amok as they have been — the damage they’re causing by meddling in the nation’s politics is too great.
Posted by trailing wife 2021-07-26 15:04||   2021-07-26 15:04|| Front Page Top

#15 Missed the iron curtain collapsing.
Didn't see the 9/11 attacks until they happened.

The two biggest events of my lifetime and the intelligence community whiffed them both. Hopefully they are getting lots of others we don't hear about but I think some senators should open the books and see for themselves.
Posted by rjschwarz 2021-07-26 15:44||   2021-07-26 15:44|| Front Page Top

#16 What ought we to do about them all, then?

We can't do anything. It's chaos. The fact that they have file cabinets, databases, satellites and shoulder holsters doesn't change the fact that they are taking guesses like everyone else. But their guesses are polluted by the myths they live. The best anyone outside the game can do is try to stand out of the way, or ride the chaotic surf.
Posted by M. Murcek 2021-07-26 16:06||   2021-07-26 16:06|| Front Page Top

#17 TW, I so agree. I'm not sure what the right answer is. Maybe cut their size and abilities down, by a large margin. They missed 911, all of them did, and it took ten years to find and get UBL. In some areas they are doing incredible things. It seems the leadership has been corrupted into politics completely. They seem to have aligned with the two parties and when an outsider comes in, Trump, they did nothing to defend him or even find the truth. They further went at it, for politics with the SC pick and investigation. It was a political hack job. Maybe move their headquarters to death valley and limit their travel to DC. Honestly I dont know how to fix corruption especially when the people that are supposed to be protecting us from it are running it.
Posted by 49 Pan 2021-07-26 16:15||   2021-07-26 16:15|| Front Page Top

#18 See: Goedel's Incompleteness Theorems. The system cannot check itself for errors. End of story.
Posted by M. Murcek 2021-07-26 16:22||   2021-07-26 16:22|| Front Page Top

#19 Other than 007, I don't trust the rest.
Posted by Blackbeard Barnsmell6454 2021-07-26 17:30||   2021-07-26 17:30|| Front Page Top

#20 ... well, maybe Moneypenny, too.
Posted by Blackbeard Barnsmell6454 2021-07-26 17:32||   2021-07-26 17:32|| Front Page Top

#21 Pssst.... 007 is a fictional character. (Which doesn't make your statement untrue).
Posted by CrazyFool 2021-07-26 17:45||   2021-07-26 17:45|| Front Page Top

#22 I present to you, the greatest James Bond opening scene evahhh!
Posted by Raj 2021-07-26 17:59||   2021-07-26 17:59|| Front Page Top

#23 ...and if you're gonna give me the car chase bullshit, just fuck right the fuck off. This is about intensity...
Posted by Raj 2021-07-26 18:03||   2021-07-26 18:03|| Front Page Top

#24 Didn't see the 9/11 attacks until they happened.

And yet they gave the CIA director the Medal of Freedom. If something like that happened in the old Soviet Union, the person would have gotten the Beria treatment.

No wonder the DIA refuse to the tell the others of the Chinese defector.
Posted by Procopius2k 2021-07-26 19:06||   2021-07-26 19:06|| Front Page Top

#25 And yet they gave the CIA director the Medal of Freedom.

George Tenet?!!! Entrenched closet idiot.
Posted by Skidmark 2021-07-26 20:59||   2021-07-26 20:59|| Front Page Top

#26 Access,
"Hey buddy, tell me a story."
Story goes uphill, x10.
[chinese telephone]

Resourcing, x10.
"Hey buddy, do you know where I can find X?"
"There's some money/girls/boys/drugs/visas in it for you."

Acquisition x10.
[snatch & grab]
"Can you hear me thru my mask?"
"How long can you hold your breath?"
"Does it hurt when I do this?"
"Wow, that's gotta really hurt!"
"Your wife isn't gonna want that back!"

Rendering, x10, x10, x10.
1000 versions from 100 sources found by 10 OPs from what 1 guy said.

The failure is in the assumption of what WE would do in those circumstances. By the time it becomes actionable intelligence it's oral history from some alien culture.
Posted by Skidmark 2021-07-26 21:16||   2021-07-26 21:16|| Front Page Top

#27 "They say the second one is easier."
"Yes. It is."
Posted by Skidmark 2021-07-26 21:22||   2021-07-26 21:22|| Front Page Top

#28 Honestly I don't know how to fix corruption

I do.
Posted by Skidmark 2021-07-26 21:24||   2021-07-26 21:24|| Front Page Top

#29 My AF career what in imagery Intel. I've worked with the CIA (NPIC) and the DIA. The guys I met from the NSA concentrated on Eastern Europe. Thirty to fifty years ago, they were all good people, and mostly former military. There were a lot of us e enjoyed then that didn't trust Intel from State or some of the other agencies.
Posted by Old Patriot 2021-07-26 23:23||   2021-07-26 23:23|| Front Page Top

23:34 Jasing de Medici3632
23:23 Old Patriot
23:17 Spoter B
21:38 trailing wife
21:29 trailing wife
21:24 Skidmark
21:22 Skidmark
21:16 trailing wife
21:16 Skidmark
20:59 Skidmark
20:54 Skidmark
20:52 Skidmark
20:32 magpie
20:17 KBK
19:55 newc
19:54 KBK
19:06 Procopius2k
19:04 Skidmark
19:03 magpie
18:57 Procopius2k
18:51 Skidmark
18:50 Procopius2k
18:48 Procopius2k
18:46 Procopius2k
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