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2021-07-14 Government Corruption

TWA 800: 25 Years of Deep State Deception

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Posted by Besoeker 2021-07-14 05:07|| || Front Page|| [11129 views ] Top

#1 I would have dismissed out of hand anyone who dared suggest that elements of the FBI and CIA

With the possible exceptions of USN sightings of alien invaders and Hunter Biden as a skilled artist and painter.... "Dismiss out of hand" nothing.

Posted by Besoeker 2021-07-14 05:19|| 2021-07-14 05:19|| Front Page Top

#2 It appears that the Navy's SAM warheads are about 150 pounds. That's about 2.5 times the 155mm shell, for comparison.
Presumably that's because the missile won't necessarily hit, due to maneuvering, and needs enough punch to do the job with a proximity hit.
So, would not a Navy SAM blow the thing to pieces? It's not like the missile is trying to catch a hard-twisting fighter aircraft going 700 mph. A solid, full contact hit should have made the thing into tin foil, no?
How about a MANPAD?
They're on the black market and might more accurately explain the A/C blowing itself up.
It would be a horrible act of war and Clinton would have had to take action, against somebody. Who? Likely wanted to hot have to, considering no way to know.
Back in the day, I spent some time in a Nike Hercules unit. I don't think you can lose a missile and have to have your load-out replenished without a fair amount of paperwork.
And a whole ship's company never, ever lets on about the whole thing.

Posted by Richard Aubrey 2021-07-14 08:43|| 2021-07-14 08:43|| Front Page Top

#3 ...Okay, a few points:

*TWA 800 was out of the effective engagement envelope of a Stinger. Even had it not been, Stinger's comparatively small warhead would have detonated away from the plane as it would have been homing in on the engines. To put this in perspective, the much larger warheads on the two Soviet AAMs that brought down KAL 007 did not tear the plane apart, and in fact the bird held together far better than one would have expected.

*Looking at the USN SAM theory, a night launch would have lit up the night sky for miles around - it would have looked like heat lightning. Then, as mentioned, we need every last man on the ship to keep their mouths shut unto eternity, as well as the folks at the dozens of radars that would have seen it. Finally go here for a discussion of the development of the RIM-66 SAM warhead. Please note the pic at the very top of the page - that's what one of these beasts looks like going high order.

My own belief is that there was either a bomb in the cargo bay, or there was some weird malfunction that Boeing and the FAA either couldn't identify (likely) or covered up (unlikely). I hold to the bomb theory - to hide that would have required the fewest number of people and had the most reason to happen.

One last thing: my father used to say that the number of truly and completely successful conspiracies throughout history can be counted on the fingers of one hand...and involved no more than a handful of people.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2021-07-14 10:28|| 2021-07-14 10:28|| Front Page Top

#4 I suspect that it was not a cover-up of a known cause but a fear of discovering a cause that might have forced action in an unwanted direction that led to force-feeding the narrative. I think the same thing about the JFK assassination.

Posted by Glenmore 2021-07-14 10:37|| 2021-07-14 10:37|| Front Page Top

#5 A more working version of Mike's link in #3

Posted by SteveS 2021-07-14 10:46|| 2021-07-14 10:46|| Front Page Top

#6 I am not at all certain concentrating on a US Navy mishap is the correct vector or theory. If you wish to cloud something in obscurity, blame it on an incorrect actor.

I'm with Mike on this one. An electrical short in the fuel system should NOT leave traces of cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine (RDX), nitroglycerin, and the third a combination of RDX and pentaerythritol tetranitrate (PETN).

NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20594
AIRCRAFT ACCIDENT REPORT

1.16.4.8 Examination of Explosive ResidueExamination of recovered wreckage revealed trace amounts of explosive residue on three samples of material from three separate locations in the airplane wreckage. These
material samples were submitted to the FBIís laboratory in Washington, D.C., with many other material samples for analysis. The pieces on which these traces were found were described by the FBI as a piece of canvaslike material and two pieces of floor panel; however, the exact locations of the traces were not documented. According to the FBIís laboratory report,219 analysis of each of the three material samples revealed that they contained traces of different explosives: one contained cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine
(RDX), one contained nitroglycerin, and one contained a combination of RDX and pentaerythritol tetranitrate (PETN).

Posted by Besoeker 2021-07-14 11:21|| 2021-07-14 11:21|| Front Page Top

#7 The Stinger is all-aspect homing. Any a/c is warmer than the background unless you're shooting up sun. So, theoretically, you could hit the nose.
A proximity fuse is for the machine to decide it's not going to get a contact hit. A fat, slow target which is not maneuvering will allow for contact.
I was talking about a SAM, not an AAM.
The 81mm mortar round weighs about ten pounds, and the Stinger's head about two thirds of that.
The point of the Stinger is to disable an aircraft and, with luck, cause it to self-destruct as when the turbines going a bazillion rpm get busted loose.
The feds had three separate and contradictory explanations for the explosive residue. One was that the a/c had shuttled guys to and from Gulf 1. And whatever they brought in with their gear and boots stayed there for five years of contact with other stuff which would have taken some off, cleanings, ventilation and submersion in the North Atlantic. Yup.
Then there was the bomb training which, by definition, does not leave RESIDUE. But the wispy, thready, faint vapor the dog was supposed to be following was supposed to survive however long from the test, plus submersion.
Then the guys hauling up the pieces and the ships had residue, presumably from some live fire exercise, which got smeared on the pieces.

If it had been one of our missiles, we have a problem. Someplace there's a missile warehouse with 99 missiles which is supposed to have 100. And the guy in charge signed for 100 when he took over. Or he signed for 99 plus a pile of paperwork in the empty slot--being facetious. He doesn't want the cost of even a Sidewinder taken out of his pay.
Have you ever seen a captain taking over a company? All over the arms room, the supply room, counting the desk chairs, etc. He OWNS those rifles.
It would take a hell of a lot of hiding to put the order to pretend 99 is 100 out of sight. And a verbal wouldn't do it. Nobody's going to want to be unable to explain where a MANPAD, AAM or SAM went to when he was supposed to be controlling them.
And whoever fired it needs one to refill his loadout, or his arms room. They're one short at Otis AFB. Who's signing for that? Or on some carrier.
As has been said, you really need to fear the little men with the brief cases who believe with all their being that 2+2=4. Because they have to sign it.
I note Cashill has one of the witnesses saying she heard a CRACK simultaneously with the flash. Might have been a figure of speech, but sound takes five seconds to travel one mile. You can see the diff at a fireworks show from the other side of the parking lot.

I also like Glenmore's point that maybe you don't want to know. See ArrowAir at Gander in 1985. Supposed to be icing but some clown in DC wanted the records sealed for seventy freaking years.

Posted by Richard Aubrey 2021-07-14 12:21|| 2021-07-14 12:21|| Front Page Top

#8 No giant conspiracy, just an inability to define the problem. There is no way a ship full of sailors, or even the control room could keep this quiet. The USG not being able to pin it down leads to them being silent and that drives speculation...

Posted by 49 Pan 2021-07-14 15:09|| 2021-07-14 15:09|| Front Page Top

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