Article

2020-04-07 Science

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by 3dc 2020-04-07 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11131 views ] Top

#1 It is the 21st century, we were promised!!!

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-07 02:46|| 2020-04-07 02:46|| Front Page Top

#2 Private companies find role in developing nuclear power for space travel

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-07 03:05|| 2020-04-07 03:05|| Front Page Top

#3 Yupp. Sounds American all right. ☺

Skeptical about the 'we're done with this rock, let's go leech space' thingy though. My own antediluvian christian view though.

Posted by Dron66046 2020-04-07 05:00|| 2020-04-07 05:00|| Front Page Top

#4 What about "Don't keep all of Humanity's eggs in one basket", Drone?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-07 05:02|| 2020-04-07 05:02|| Front Page Top

#5 ^ Of course, my view is unpopular, Grom. Even dumb by today's lefty ideals. I just know that Gawd gave man the earth, with everything in it. And only the earth. And we fucked that up too.

But even from a non-theist POV; it's slightly mental to continue in denial of the enemies of humanity itself thriving and throbbing around us, while we talk about diversifying into every thing except what needs to be done. In my view, we cannot advance to the stars, or seek the deeper dimensions while our impending problems with Law, Justice and political Violence remain unsolved.

It's like filling the library of Alexandria with choice productions of creative minds and collective genius; building economies of gold and silver; architectural wonders and temples by hundred thousands of hands over decades. Only waiting for it all to be razed by dim-witted hordes we ignored in the process. Or worse, suicidally stupid liberals.

I think if we just selectively depopulated this planet, we have enough resource and peace of mind to last us a good millennia or two. For this, we only need to climb up out of the liberal humanist guilt embedded in our modern morality systems and re-write our laws to reduce the chances of survival of the criminal, the dangerous.

Once we this planet under dominion of reason and justice; I believe we could graduate to the stars.

Posted by Dron66046 2020-04-07 05:30|| 2020-04-07 05:30|| Front Page Top

#6 ^ Sorry, I meant lofty ideals.

Posted by Dron66046 2020-04-07 05:32|| 2020-04-07 05:32|| Front Page Top

#7 ^^ Shit. I meant 'once we brought this planet...'

Actually, I'm just hungry.
[Runs off to the kitchen]

Posted by Dron66046 2020-04-07 05:37|| 2020-04-07 05:37|| Front Page Top

#8 Sorry, but I believe in exactly the opposite - we have to go out because this planet is, rapidly, becoming uninhabitable*.
Our ancestors didn't leave Africa after achieving paradise there - look at post-colonial Africa.

*We're now having an example of that happens when half-competent people (Wuhan "scientists") play with modern biological techniques. What will happen when quarter-competent: Pakis & Iranians; will start?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-07 05:38|| 2020-04-07 05:38|| Front Page Top

#9 Now, if there's a chance of developing some kind of orbital weapon that can threaten portions of the world with mass destruction without radiation, unchallenged by any other power or counter... then that would be a thing, yeah.

Posted by Dron66046 2020-04-07 05:48|| 2020-04-07 05:48|| Front Page Top

#10 we have to go out because this planet is, rapidly, becoming uninhabitable

I admit my view is coloured by blind faith.

I understand your view too. Often, my faith gets the better of my ambitions you see. I can't overstep my bounds seeing how it turns out for Nimrods. While many may think it silly superstition, to me it's prudent.

Posted by Dron66046 2020-04-07 05:54|| 2020-04-07 05:54|| Front Page Top

#11 When I think more of it, the modern democracy is nothing short of a Babel. And anything proposed by it like 'a tower reaching into heaven' is bound to fail by default. Another self-licking ice cream cone for bureaucrats, manufacturers and legislators that ultimately delivers nothing to better humanity. Of course, if my government would undertake such a thing I would support it as best I could, my biases notwithstanding. In the hope that mayhap some tangential avenue of research from such projects leads to other practicable applications.

My point is, it was actually easier to repair our planet with just a little realism and practicality. The easy way out is to always reach for the reset switch; pack up and move to Arkansas; divorce and buy a cat. It's a conceit of the rich denialist, but how long can one hide from hard truths ?

Posted by Dron66046 2020-04-07 06:12|| 2020-04-07 06:12|| Front Page Top

#12 Thar is gold in them there hills!

Posted by 3dc 2020-04-07 06:23|| 2020-04-07 06:23|| Front Page Top

#13 Ref #8: *We're now having an example of that happens when half-competent people (Wuhan "scientists") play with modern biological techniques.

Simon Wiesenthal's search for doctor and anthropologist Joseph Mengele provides an earlier example.

Posted by Besoeker 2020-04-07 07:25|| 2020-04-07 07:25|| Front Page Top

#14

Stanton T. Friedman had worked with some amazing nuclear rocket engines. Used to scoff at the very thought of using chemical rockets for planetary explorations. The man was no joke.

Posted by Woodrow 2020-04-07 09:12|| 2020-04-07 09:12|| Front Page Top

#15 #10 Guess I envy you, but I can't share your faith in benevolent creator. And lets not talk about this anymore.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-07 09:26|| 2020-04-07 09:26|| Front Page Top

#16 #13. No it doesn't. Mangele was a monster - but he didn't (by himself) threaten human life on this planet.

My point is, what biological weapons are a lot more dangerous than nuclear. You need thousands of competent people to make a nuke - because it has thousands of components that need to function perfectly for it to work.
And nukes don't self-multiply!
Any idiot with an access to a modern molecular biology lab (and there are thousands of them in the world)* can make a biological weapon. And the dumber and more careless he is, the more dangerous this weapon will be.

*A friend of mine works in the lab where they use the technique that (I conjecture) was used to produce the spike protein for novel coronavirus to study bacteriorhodopsin.
What they do is mutate the coding DNA at random. Separate the mutated DNA until they have a single copy - so they can study the effect of one particular mutation at one the time. Multiply this copy into thousands with PCR, insert that DNA into plasmid. Inject the plasmid into a commercially purchased strain of E. Coli (it can't infect humans or anything because it cannot live outside a very specific lab conditions). Produce bunches of mutated bacteriorhodopsin. Carry out biochemical function tests. Try to infer what the results mean - that's the hard part😃.
Everything they use: PCR kits, plasmids, E coli is purchased commercially - they don't produce them in their own lab. Everything is about as hard to use as putting together a piece of IKEA furniture.

Now, what I think the Wuhan Einsteins did, is use the same methods (with staff bought from the same suppliers) to produce mutated copies of bat coronavirus spike protein. Test them for increased affinity to the human target protein. Mutate successful copies further - artificial evolution. When they got that they wanted (don't ask me why they wanted it) they inserted the evolved DNA back into coronavirus.
And then it run away.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-07 09:57|| 2020-04-07 09:57|| Front Page Top

#17 Just a technical note but the CoVs are ssRNA viruses. They would have been using a bit different technique than random changes and PCR duplication (were it engineered, I’m still not convinced of that).

Your point still stands, but of note introducing base changes in RNA is even easier. Getting viable and stable changes may be a different story depending what you are attempting to engineer.

In 92 at uni we were engineering E. coli via PCR just as you said and we could have as first year biochemistry students easily made simple bioweapons.

Posted by bombay 2020-04-07 11:07|| 2020-04-07 11:07|| Front Page Top

#18 /\ Thank you for your comments bombay.

Posted by Besoeker 2020-04-07 11:28|| 2020-04-07 11:28|| Front Page Top

#19 were it engineered, I’m still not convinced of that

Sooner, or later, we'll have the RNA/DNA sequence of the spike protein - I predict dozens of base differences from the bat's - all enhancing binding to ACE2.

p.s. I remember something about the bats it's coming from NOT being found in Wuhan region.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-07 13:27|| 2020-04-07 13:27|| Front Page Top

#20 The timing of samples sequenced will be important in that distinction. At 30k base pairs and two or more mutations that stick a month getting a hold of the very first samples from China would be key ....

Posted by bombay 2020-04-07 14:09|| 2020-04-07 14:09|| Front Page Top

#21 I'm sure Japanese and South Koreans kept samples from the beginning.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-07 14:20|| 2020-04-07 14:20|| Front Page Top

#22 G: The coronavirus came from either the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention or Wuhan Institute of Virology in Wuhan, China.

The study concluded the deadly virus came out of local laboratories in Hubei Province. The smoking gun in the study is the link to horseshoe bats which are not sold in local markets and not native to Wuhan. In fact the closest colony is 900 kilometers away. There is no evidence horseshoe bats were sold in the Wuhan wet markets. The local labs used this bat specimen and the virus came from a lab in Wuhan.

Posted by Frank G 2020-04-07 14:24|| 2020-04-07 14:24|| Front Page Top

#23 Thanks, Frank.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-07 14:28|| 2020-04-07 14:28|| Front Page Top

#24 welcome

Posted by Frank G 2020-04-07 14:31|| 2020-04-07 14:31|| Front Page Top

#25 I would think the Thai samples would be very useful as well. China did ‘publish’ the sequencing but the first samples themselves would be definitive proof. Likely the world would never get those.

Posted by bombay 2020-04-07 15:07|| 2020-04-07 15:07|| Front Page Top

#26 I've trouble commenting to this thread

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-07 15:25|| 2020-04-07 15:25|| Front Page Top

#27 I would think the Thai samples would be very useful as well

Yep. And, according to "worldometers/info/coronavirus" site, they handled coronavirus really well.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-04-07 15:27|| 2020-04-07 15:27|| Front Page Top

23:45 Old Patriot
22:23 trailing wife
22:21 M. Murcek
22:01 Old Patriot
21:48 Vernal Hatrick
21:45 Vernal Hatrick
21:44 Frank G
21:44 M. Murcek
21:42 Frank G
21:39 SteveS
21:31 lord garth
21:24 Besoeker
21:22 AlmostAnonymous5839
21:17 trailing wife
21:16 trailing wife
21:10 trailing wife
20:18 USN, Ret.
20:15 Capsu78
20:09 Capsu78
20:06 jpal
20:05 Thaith Elmeresing6163
19:59 Thaith Elmeresing6163
19:58 Alistaire Tingle9882
19:55 Alistaire Tingle9882