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2011-02-18 Home Front: Culture Wars

Castro Pot Bust Goes Awry and a Law Professor Threatens to Sue

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Posted by DarthVader 2011-02-18 12:46|| || Front Page|| [11131 views ] Top

#1 I am amazed that no one who has been brutalized in one of these deals, has yet to set up a "death house", with the intention of killing a number of police during a SWAT style drug raid.

Today, with abandoned houses all over the place, this could be done with no connection at all to the individual responsible, yet could kill half a dozen officers, with no one but themselves to blame for their aggression and violating the rules.

Posted by Anonymoose 2011-02-18 13:39|| 2011-02-18 13:39|| Front Page Top

#2 Legalize it or change the law to let the states handle their own affairs.

If you think [legal] union and liquor money buy state politicians, just wait till we go full Mexican with drug money.

Posted by Procopius2k 2011-02-18 14:11|| 2011-02-18 14:11|| Front Page Top

#3 I was confused by the title. Turns out Castro is a neighborhood in SF, Cal (I suppose near Castro street).

Posted by Lord Garth 2011-02-18 15:31|| 2011-02-18 15:31|| Front Page Top

#4 ...just wait till we go full Mexican with drug money.

Already there and full of federal money too. Big busts are big buisness for cops and black market pot is big buisness for Mexican drug runners. No wonder no one in charge wants it legal.

Bit of perspective, there was a non-profit coop that was helping my wife. They made sure everything was up to California code, all paperwork done, all laws followed and all taxes paid. They grew their own and sold it to only card carrying patients. Then a cop from SLO got a card from a doctor under false pretenses, set up the coop for them to sell to her after filling out lots of paperwork as per state law. After a few sales, the cops called the DEA and suddenly a cancer survivor that is regulated by the state of California to grow and sell has a fully armed swat team breaking in his door and arresting him in front of his 7 year old daughter with police dogs and a helicopter. They didn't even show him a warrant until 3 days later. On top of that, they took his daughter under "child endangerment". The exact same scenario played out at over 15 locations with the same level of extreme and overreaching force.

Now, why would a Californian cop pull in federal law enforcement to bust people with military type of operations because they were following Californian law? The secret is they needed some more federal "aid" to help combat their "drug" problem since they had budget shortages. Now I want to know how much they spent on the goddamn operation and arrests?

This dual legal/not legal crap has got to go. It is wrecking people's lives. Not only the people that choose to follow the law and help do what they believe is right, but people that aren't even involved at all. The police, Feds and judges are all overreaching, over bearing and out of control. This is just another fight on the nanny-state vs. individual freedoms front.

So yeah, I'm pissed. We now are all pretty much criminals anyway. Just try to buy some cold medicine. Or if you have chronic pain, some Oxycontin. You are just a criminal that hasn't been caught according to the fucked up system we have. The war on drugs is a failure. We live in a police state.

I don't have all the answers to solve this, but I can think of a couple that would help tremendously.

1) Secure the fucking border
2) Enforce our immigration laws
3) Let the states handle their own affairs when it comes to drugs, abortion, etc. and keep the goddamn feds out of it unless trafficking crosses state borders. Then call in the goddamn DEA and FBI.

Posted by DarthVader 2011-02-18 15:44|| 2011-02-18 15:44|| Front Page Top

#5 A preemptive on 'Prohibition didn't work' line.

Be real. There is no perfect. You'll just shift the casualty figures from one column to another.

Go count the number of Americans just killed in DUI since the repeal of Prohibition and the number of Americans killed in the wars since. Guess which number is bigger. Toss in those killed or maimed in other situations while under the influence for another big number to ignore. Ending prohibition just shoved the ugly consequences to another venue. Legalizing drugs will be the same. The social consequences will still be there, but we'll all congratulate ourselves about 'it' is no longer defined as a problem.

Posted by Procopius2k 2011-02-18 16:05|| 2011-02-18 16:05|| Front Page Top

#6 P2K has a good point.

I'm all for the individual responsibility aspect. I say the War on Drugs failed because it didn't even slow the smuggling and consumption of drugs. In fact, it got worse and we lost more of our freedoms. Stopping the flow and production of drugs doesn't even come close to addressing the problem, which is why people use. Instead of locking up addicts in jail, why not mandated treatment programs (which addicts would have to physically stay at) that keep updating the program with things that work? Most addicts have severe emotional pain and they do anything to keep from feeling it. Treat the disease.

Now for the people smuggling drugs and making them illegally, I'm all for shooting them in the back of the head and calling it a day. But if California decriminalizes and approves pot for medical use, then the cops and feds tells the voters to go to fucking hell and bust everyone anyway it just makes people even more pissed and feeling like governments are further out of control and distrust sets in even farther which is the main argument I am making, not the "legalize everything" one.

Posted by DarthVader 2011-02-18 16:21|| 2011-02-18 16:21|| Front Page Top

#7 No country will ever completely eliminate substance abuse. But some have solved their social problem. And always by attacking demand, not supply. Look at tobacco in the US. Until we are willing to target and punish consumers, regardless of status or connections, we will have the problem and it will corrode our legal system until we legalize.

Posted by Spaising Thaiting6528 2011-02-18 17:01|| 2011-02-18 17:01|| Front Page Top

#8 No country will ever completely eliminate substance abuse. But some have solved their social problem. And always by attacking demand, not supply.

I think the only approach that has worked is attacking internal supply. The countries with the most severe punishments have the fewest problems with addiction. Japan has the severest punishments among developed countries - long prison terms are the norm. It also has the lowest addiction rates. Singapore has a mandatory death penalty for possession of dealer amounts of illegal drugs. Drug trials are expedited through the courts so that the example being made of the dealers remains fresh in the minds of would-be entrants into the racket. The time from arrest to conviction to final appeals to the hangman is 2 years. Singapore's drug addiction rate? 0.2%, compared to Japan's 2%.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2011-02-18 19:09|| 2011-02-18 19:09|| Front Page Top

#9 You ignore China.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2011-02-18 19:24|| 2011-02-18 19:24|| Front Page Top

#10 Japan's example has little relevance to our current drug debate. I don't know China but I assume it is similar.

In the past, they had little contact with other countries so there was no marijuana or other such substances to begin with. Plus, people were taught strictly to obey authority and the law in a way Americans could never contemplate. So they stuck to drinking tons of sake and rebellious teenagers had to settle for inhaling paint thinner and glue. The other option was to join the Yakuza or hang out around the redlight districts (mizushobai) and do meth (some claim the kamikaze pilots did meth). It's not the same as drugs, but a quasi-legal black market in prostitution was always tolerated.

Nowadays, use of drugs like marijuana, ecstacy, etc. is increasing in Japan. As their society became more affluent, attitudes of young people started changing and they have greater contacts with the N. America and Europe. Young kids enjoy clubs and concerts and many travel or go on exchange programs abroad.

I don't think Japan's situation can be used by the prohibitionist side to make the case against legalization. It's not a good example.

Posted by DJ Curtis C 2011-02-18 20:15|| 2011-02-18 20:15|| Front Page Top

#11 China is similar in that it's opium problem is what our drug problem will become. Rates of addiction are estimated to have been as high as 10%. It was pushed by suppliers from the East India Company in two wars in the 19th century and by pushers like FDR's grandpa Delano. It was not until Mao ruled that dependency on opium was broken. (Prior to that he had been a pusher as well to raise funds as the Taliban do today.) You can imagine the variety of methods used to affect both supply but more importantly demand once he was in charge.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2011-02-18 20:40|| 2011-02-18 20:40|| Front Page Top

#12 Plus, people were taught strictly to obey authority and the law in a way Americans could never contemplate.

Actually, Americans are taught strictly to obey authority and the law in a way that Chinese could never contemplate. There are laws against all kinds of things in China. As long as a law is unenforced, or the enforcing authority can be bought, the average Chinese will disobey all kinds of laws. This is why pollution, product adulteration and defective construction runs amuck in China. Stealing from the company/the government is something that virtually everyone does in China, and I'm not talking about raiding the supply cabinet. The most well-known (and enduring) Chinese saying is not the nonsensical "may you live in interesting times" (invented by some Westerner producing Chinosoirie), but what might be considered the Chinese approach to life: "victor = king, loser = bandit" (i.e. win, and whatever you had to do to win will be whitewashed; lose, and your minor missteps will become the vilest of crimes). The average Chinese obeys authority only when it is to his advantage. When that changes, the old order is often swept away in rivers of blood.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2011-02-19 00:05|| 2011-02-19 00:05|| Front Page Top

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