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2010-08-01 The Grand Turk

Armenian-Americans sue for century-old losses

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Posted by Fred 2010-08-01 00:00|| || Front Page|| [4 views ] Top

#1 While I sympathize with the Armenians that were brutally slaughtered 80 years ago...I have to ask.. where does it end?
If you agree to this 'compensation' you open the flood gates.
slippery slope.
Everyone got fucked over by someone at sometime in history.
You cannot right the wrongs of history with legal remedies in the present tense.
Move forward...Move ahead!

Posted by Mike Hunt 2010-08-01 04:45|| 2010-08-01 04:45|| Front Page Top

#2 oops... sorry for the potty mouth!

sincerely

Mikey

Posted by Mike Hunt 2010-08-01 04:46|| 2010-08-01 04:46|| Front Page Top

#3 And how this is fundamentally any different from Spanish courts seeking international jurisdiction to prosecute Americans for actions in a third country? Yes, I know that the game has been played here before. It should never have been allowed to start.

Posted by Procopius2k 2010-08-01 07:48|| 2010-08-01 07:48|| Front Page Top

#4 Not to disagree with your conclusion, but the difference is a criminal prosecution for an act committed elsewhere versus a civil action to collect for damages to a US citizen. The US does not try non-citizens for criminal acts committed in another jurisdiction. Do you really want to say that Americans from Iran can't sue Iran for damages they suffered when tortured?

I think Mike's point is more pertinent. To sue for damages, you have to have suffered the damage directly. If this stands, TW would be able to sue the FRG for the damages her family suffered in WWII. But almost everybody who immigrated did so as the result of some level of inhospitability in their former homeland that an artful attorney could construe as warranting damages.

Frankly people who raise these suits strike me as lacking a full understanding of what it means to be an American. When you come here, you should be leaving the old country and all its baggage behind once and for ever. When you come you should be dealt with as an individual American with the same rights as every other American. Make your way into the future in the new world, but leave the old behind.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-08-01 08:48|| 2010-08-01 08:48|| Front Page Top

#5 If this stands, TW would be able to sue the FRG for the damages her family suffered in WWII.

Agreed, Nimble Spemble, that's absurd. In the end I agree with my mother that we are happier here than we would have been had she stayed in the old country (beyond the mere fact of my existence, I mean). I'll check on that again over the next few weeks -- the trailing daughters and I are going on a tour of Germany and Holland with my mother, visiting her old haunts, school chums and relatives she hasn't seen in some cases since the 1930s. Mr. Wife has the odd idea that he has too much work at the office to take off for so long...

Mikey, forgiven. Even I've used strong language here on occasion for rhetorical emphasis. Your apology does you credit. :-)

Posted by trailing wife 2010-08-01 09:35|| 2010-08-01 09:35|| Front Page Top

#6 While I am against reparations for claimed past detrimental (can't think of a better word) acts, this is somewhat different.

They are suing the entities - the Turkish government and others - who benefited from illegal seizure of property. I am assuming the seizures were illegal under Turkish law at the time, unlike say slavery or removing indigenous people from land in the USA or Australia.

This isn't reparations for the 'genocide', its' suing people for what is in effect benefiting from the proceeds of theft or at least breach of contract.

I recall similar cases in Germany were settled many years ago.

Posted by phil_b 2010-08-01 10:13|| 2010-08-01 10:13|| Front Page Top

#7 TW, My wife and son will be in Germany, Italy and Albania in the next few weeks. If you see a 6' 3" 14 year old, be sure to introduce yourself. I too have too much work, and my family has been here so long I don't know which country is the old one.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-08-01 10:21|| 2010-08-01 10:21|| Front Page Top

#8 I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, there is no end to the historic grievances one might pursue.

OTOH it brings pressure on the Turkish government regarding their treatment of the Armenians just after they sponsored the attempts to bust the embargo on Hamas.

Posted by lotp 2010-08-01 10:23|| 2010-08-01 10:23|| Front Page Top

#9 Phil, I agree that property seizure is the basis for the suit and I am sympathetic to that, but when I see class action and California, the only thing missing to make it a pure shakedown is The Justice Brothers, Reverend Jackson and Al Sharpton. It would be interesting to see what is owed to whom and how it will be divided amongst their heirs. All in all, a good opportunity for lawyers to feast on others with little true justice but plenty of vengeance.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-08-01 10:28|| 2010-08-01 10:28|| Front Page Top

#10 This logic would give Texas back to the Mexicans and then the rest of the US back to the Indians. Of course it would solidify the Jewish claim on Israel.

Posted by Glenmore 2010-08-01 10:54|| 2010-08-01 10:54|| Front Page Top

#11 The US does not try non-citizens for criminal acts committed in another jurisdiction.

Need to check how many terror acts committed in foreign countries have resulted in trials and imprisonment in the US. At least the target was usually an American citizen at the time of the act as with Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-Owhali, and Mohammed Odeh of the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings.

The action here being done "on behalf of all Armenians and Turkish citizens" which were not even US citizens in foreign land when that situation occurred. The point is that as a third party similar to the Spanish, we have no standing in the issue at hand when the act was committed.

Posted by Procopius2k 2010-08-01 11:00|| 2010-08-01 11:00|| Front Page Top

#12 Criminal acts, not acts of war with action taken without due process.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-08-01 11:33|| 2010-08-01 11:33|| Front Page Top

#13 No 'legal' war act till Sept 2001. Actions prior would be ex post facto and thus constitutionally prohibited as based upon 'war'.

Posted by Procopius2k 2010-08-01 11:49|| 2010-08-01 11:49|| Front Page Top

#14 Seems to me any such action is automaticly void as "Time Barred"?
Way too many years have passed.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2010-08-01 12:29|| 2010-08-01 12:29|| Front Page Top

#15 Thanks trailing wifeI always try to keep it G rated, but sometimes a slip or 2 get the point across better.

I say again with emphasis:

If you agree to this 'compensation' you open the flood gates.
slippery slope.
Everyone got f**ked over by someone at sometime in history.
You cannot right the wrongs of history with legal remedies in the present tense.

Posted by Mike Hunt 2010-08-01 17:09|| 2010-08-01 17:09|| Front Page Top

#16 Interestingly, the Palestinians have been talking about claims for years for the properties they still hold the front door keys to, in the expectation that Israel will both pay up and let them move back. Last week or so Israel announced that they will be compiling a list of the real property and possessions left behind by the Jews of the Arab/Iranian/North African world when they were fled following the establishment of Israel in 1948 -- for a threatened suit against the governments of the various countries. It is estimated that that the amount will be significantly greater than the Palestinian claim, and the plan is to agree to that claim if the Israeli one is honoured.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-08-01 21:09|| 2010-08-01 21:09|| Front Page Top

#17 tw - me likee. :-D

*rubs hands with glee*

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2010-08-01 23:26|| 2010-08-01 23:26|| Front Page Top

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