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2007-07-17 Europe
1/3 Europeans say Jews too influential
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Posted by gromgoru 2007-07-17 09:45|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [407 views ]  Top

#1 So it is ok for the Muzzies to feel more loyal to Islam than their host country, but not the evil jooooos.

Why does this sound all so familiar?
Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader  2007-07-17 10:56||   2007-07-17 10:56|| Front Page Top

#2 There are many Americans who say the same thing (usually on the left). Never mind the fact that most American Jews vote left.
Posted by Broadhead6 2007-07-17 11:26||   2007-07-17 11:26|| Front Page Top

#3 This is so ignorant, just plain stupid, and outright vile. If things aren't going like you want, blame the Jews and everything will be better. Just ask the Germans.
Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues  2007-07-17 11:47||   2007-07-17 11:47|| Front Page Top

#4 And all the while new mosques are being built in their back yards.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2007-07-17 12:04||   2007-07-17 12:04|| Front Page Top

#5 And all the while new mosques are being built in their back yards.

Here in France, many on the right blame jews for having been over the last few decades big proponent of mass immigrations, always ready to fight and denounce "racism" (that is anything that said that perhaps immigration wasn't "a lucky deal for France"), mocking french identity as passé and outdated and chauvinist,... and in some extent at thre very least, they're quite right, like in the USA, jewish intellectuals were massively over-represented into the advocates of multiculturalism. Don't forget that about 80% of the funding for the US democratic party come from the jewish community (which is logical, since it votes at about 80% for the left).
Posted by anonymous5089 2007-07-17 12:31||   2007-07-17 12:31|| Front Page Top

#6 5089 - if you are going to make that comment, you also need to note that self-loathing, non-jewish liberals are also to blame.
Posted by Angaiger Tojo1904">Angaiger Tojo1904  2007-07-17 13:13||   2007-07-17 13:13|| Front Page Top

#7 You mean like the new president of Israel?

(from a french link, slightly OT)$
http://www.guysen.com/print.php?sid=5877
Hazony rappelle, entre autres, les propos publiés par Shimon Pérès dans un ouvrage « Le nouveau Moyen-Orient ». Pérès prédit que « toute idée d’un petit Etat national –l’Etat juif inclus- s’est effondré » (cité dans l’Etat juif, p. 103). Il poursuit : « Il ne fait aucun doute que le prochain objectif d’Israël devra être de devenir membre de la Ligue arabe. » (id. p. 107)
Guideon Samet surenchérit dans un article publié dans Haaretz : « Rendons grâce à Dieu, l’effort d’un siècle investi dans la construction d’une « identité nationale » juive semble finalement avoir pris fin. Quand cela s’est-il produit ? A Oslo. » (cité dans l’Etat juif, p. 112)

Hazony reminds the reader, among other things, of the declarations published by shimon peres in the book "The new middle east". Peres predicts that the "idea of a very small national State - the jewish State included - has crumbled down" (quoted in The jewish State p. 103)(cité dans l’Etat juif, p. 103). He goes on : "there is no doubt than the next objective of Israel will have to become a member of the arab league" (idem, p. 107). Guideon Samet outdoes him in an Haaretz published article "let's praise God the century-long effort invested into the building of a jewish 'national identity' finally seems to have ended. When did it happen? At Oslo." (Quoted in the Jewish State, p. 112).

Again, I'm not saying that there is a jewish plot, I'm just constating that jews intellectuals have been the vanguard of multiculturalism, even in Israel. Now in France, you've got jewish philosopher Finkelkraut saying that jewish identity can only flourish in a France with a strong sense of identity, but this is an anomaly after at least 4 decades.
There's a white nationalist website I like very much, which tries to make sense of that, acknowledge and understand the jewish role in the propagagation of multiculturalism, yet avoid falling into antisemitism like the right often does (and this judeo-obsession is a trap IMHO, because it blinds to the larger picture).

The Inverted World

See
Did the Jews Do It?
The Decline of American Renaissance


An another very good ressource is View from the Right, which occasionally tackles the subject
Is my criticism of Jewish attitudes the same as Kevin MacDonald’s ?
How is anti-Semitism to be discussed ?
Posted by anonymous5089 2007-07-17 13:45||   2007-07-17 13:45|| Front Page Top

#8 Ugh, my translation really is not good, but you get the point.
Posted by anonymous5089 2007-07-17 13:46||   2007-07-17 13:46|| Front Page Top

#9 5089 - if you are going to make that comment, you also need to note that self-loathing, non-jewish liberals are also to blame.

Ok, right, I misread your comment, I thought you spoke about self-loathing jews, hence my answer about peres. I totally agree with you, that's why I think being obsessed with the jews is a trap, if only because it presupposes that non-jews of all stripes are powerless and have no initiative of their own. It's focusing on a symptom of jewish identity, and ignoring the symptom of western identity more generally.

Regarding the 1/3 number, I wonder what it would be in the USA (and what is the break down of the result, country by country), I'm not sure it would be that different, or perhaps only lower because of an jewish-friendly evangelical tradition. Also, if the overbearing PCness is transnationalism & multiculturalism, and if the general public sees largely jewish figureheads for that, in the media, in the entertainment industry, among intellectuals,... then the logical explanation is to think the jews have a disproportionate influence.
Posted by anonymous5089 2007-07-17 13:59||   2007-07-17 13:59|| Front Page Top

#10 5089 - thanks for the response. Your point is well taken. It is important that the discussion occur, without screams of "antisemitism", much in the same way we should be able to discuss real problems in our own immigrant communities without the charge of "racism" getting in the way.

I wasn't trying to imply you were an antisemite, it was just a reflexive comment on my part to point out that the problem has more to do with the enabler mentality (that if we can just fix ourselves) the bad man will go away. The mentality is as much an affliction of the liberal left as it is in Jewish circles.
Posted by Angaiger Tojo1904">Angaiger Tojo1904  2007-07-17 14:01||   2007-07-17 14:01|| Front Page Top

#11 I posted my second comment before I read your #9 post.

Also, if the overbearing PCness is transnationalism & multiculturalism, and if the general public sees largely jewish figureheads for that, in the media, in the entertainment industry, among intellectuals,... then the logical explanation is to think the jews have a disproportionate influence.

I once myself entertained that idea for a few minutes- before I quickly dismissed it when I realized that it travels along the same path that liberals (of all stripes) here in America use to discredit the conservative left.

Regardless, it is a topic that needs to be explored and aired in the sunlight, without worrying about hurt feelings, because its negative, self-destructive capablities are historically proven to be extremely seductive and lethal.
Posted by Angaiger Tojo1904">Angaiger Tojo1904  2007-07-17 14:16||   2007-07-17 14:16|| Front Page Top

#12 oops - change to: here in America use to discredit the conservative left right.
Posted by Angaiger Tojo1904">Angaiger Tojo1904  2007-07-17 14:17||   2007-07-17 14:17|| Front Page Top

#13 Anon5089 - about 80% of the funding for the US democratic party come from the jewish community

I find that statistic to be incredible. I can believe that 80% of the Jewish community donates to the Donks, but 80% of the Donks funds from Jews, no way. Got a source for that?
Posted by Harcourt Chomoter1735 2007-07-17 14:18||   2007-07-17 14:18|| Front Page Top

#14 The American Jew who is left thinking and left giving is also most likely non-observant. The observant ones are likely to fit the Joe Lieberman profile - strong supporter of Israel and the WoT but very socially and culturally leftish. Remember the so-called Neo-Con cabal of the W administration were led by American Jews to some extent - Wolfowitz, Feith, et.al. I would be hesitant to paint to broad a picture of American Jews and the Democrats. The Dem performance on Israel, WoT, Iraq etc. have not endeared themselves to the observant population of Jews.
Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back!  2007-07-17 14:21||   2007-07-17 14:21|| Front Page Top

#15 Got a source for that?

Nope, this was from a private email exchange with an US correspondent (a Reagan fan), so I admit it might either be wrong from the start, or that I remembered it wrong.

Let me search a bit... Ok, this is not "exactly" (huh....) that, so I guess I shoudl take the funding figure back.

"When you hear this glorification of the immigrant and this mantra about the country being made up of immigrants, it makes me pessimistic about the future and I am an optimist by nature. How do you convince people who believe this dribble that they are giving up their heritage and the future of their children. They seem to be living in a state of complete denial and will not, for fear of being accused of the ultimate crime of racism, open their eyes. Among the worst useful idiots in this country, and I have to say it, are American Jews, who are still as a voting bloc far far out in Left field and give millions of dollars to the most radical candidates. The Israel lobby in Washington that promotes American support for Israel in Congress no longer is based on the support of American Jews, but of American evangelical Christians. American Jews, obviously not all of them, but in the 80 percent range, support politicians who would pave the way for a second Holocaust. American Jews have been so safe for so long that they really have a hard time relating to Isreali Jews who are under siege by fanatical neighbors less than 50 miles away who want to kill them and their children and drive them into the Mediterranean."
Posted by anonymous5089 2007-07-17 14:42||   2007-07-17 14:42|| Front Page Top

#16 Apologies for the wrong figure. (Damn, I'm only sorry I was caught! I mean... hum... huh, I'm sorry I put wrong figures, yes, that's the ticket)
Posted by anonymous5089 2007-07-17 14:44||   2007-07-17 14:44|| Front Page Top

#17 The American Jew who is left thinking and left giving is also most likely non-observant.

That is an interesting point. I was just previously musing on the point that the same people who are willing to blame the Christian right for controlling the Bush administration are the same exact people who are most likely to believe that W is the stooge of the neo-conservative (ie: jews control the world) movement.

Being an observant Christian or Jewish (or of any religion) is not about belonging to a club - but rather dealing with questions that we, in our mortal state, can not comprehend about the soul and the hereafter. (Well, ok for some people it is little different than belonging to a club). But for the thinking, it is the mortal's attempt to peek behind the curtain of eternity and examine one's soul and concepts such as life, death, good, evil, etc. that we can touch upon, but not grasp in our mortal state. It is easier to see this in 2007 that it would have been in 1957 - since we can see what the absence of religion brings us - broken families, crime, hedomism, and morally empty idols like Paris Hilton. But I digress...

So... anyway, your comment that they tend to be non-observant is interesting.
muse/off
Posted by Angaiger Tojo1904">Angaiger Tojo1904  2007-07-17 14:52||   2007-07-17 14:52|| Front Page Top

#18 oooh - to avoid any offense, it is not my intention to cast blame on any non-observant rantburg readers out there. But rather I was just musing on the psyche of the self-loathing, who are so willing to travel down a path of self-destruction.
Posted by Angaiger Tojo1904">Angaiger Tojo1904  2007-07-17 15:06||   2007-07-17 15:06|| Front Page Top

#19 Got a source for that?

It's not as far fetched as it may appear. From a quick look at the 2004 Election 25 Top Donors List, fully half are easily identified as Jewish by name or fame (1,2,3,4,6,13,14,15,19,21,22,23) and donated $97 million or 2/3 of the $148 million. (I was surprised by how high it was.) If 1 or 2 of remaining 12 non obvious names are also Jewish, then the top donations would shoot into the 70's percentage. For being 2% of the population, Jews have an enormous effect of the American political system (e.g. 13 Senators, 30 Representatives).
Posted by ed 2007-07-17 15:25||   2007-07-17 15:25|| Front Page Top

#20 Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the countries where they live

Yet, as Darth noted, Europeans have no problem with Muslims whose overwhelming loyalty to Islam portends their complete destruction. Contrary to all conspiracy theories and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the Jews aren't seeking global domination. That much cannot be said for the Muslims. Europe's singular inability to make this one simple distinction will be the death of them.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-07-17 15:31||   2007-07-17 15:31|| Front Page Top

#21 "#2 There are many Americans who say the same thing (usually on the left). Never mind the fact that most American Jews vote left."

I have a Jewish wife, a number of Jewish friends and have lived in two areas with majority Jewish populations. When I question their hypocracy on issues such as their support for the Donks, the anti-semetic ACLU and other far left NGO's, they become indignant and angry.

I found the answer to this behavior at http://www.drsanity.blogspot.com/

Dr. Sanity explains that compulsive left wing beliefs are common in narcissistic elitists with a sense of victimhood. This explains the Democrats support coming from Hollywood, academia, unions, minorities, civil rights groups, NOW, etc. This diagnosis also fits two of my family members who have history degrees and can't make a decent living.
Posted by usmc6743 2007-07-17 16:26||   2007-07-17 16:26|| Front Page Top

#22 usmc6743: I also am married to a Jewish women although she is not particularly observant other than on holidays and mostly to please her parents. Her sister also married a non-Jewish person (Catholic). They don't observe either Catholicism or Judaismj.

My wife and I tend to favor the right as does her sister and her husband. The rest of my wife's family tends to vote left and Democrat. When they are questioned about why they support the left, I usually get some explanation that defies rationality such as "We always vote that way or it is just the thing to do." From my limited experience (small sample) at least within the Jewish part of the family, they do support the left although God only knows why. The gentile (or as my nephew when he was 5 mispoke referred to the genital part of the family) part of my family goes toward the right. I have always been puzzled as to why the Jews tend to go left when it is usually the right in the U.S. that has supportive and been protective of Israel. I don't think Jews in the U.S. are more loyal to Israel than the U.S. I think they do like the idea of a democratic Israeli state. There are orthodox, conservative, and reform Jews in the U.S. and it seems they tend to support the left--not universally but I sense in large numbers. It would be interesting to see the breakdown of Jewish voting in the last U.S. election.
Posted by JohnQC 2007-07-17 17:12||   2007-07-17 17:12|| Front Page Top

#23 Is this Left Bias a fading shadow of European Jewry and its political customs?

I first read J. Bowyer Bell's book "Terror Out Of Zion" many years ago and it covered the bitter feelings between the so-called Left and Right. By "so-called" he explained the Right Wing grew out of proto-Fascist movements and spawned, eventually, the Likud. The Left Wing were a hodgepodge alliance of coffee shop intellectuals, labor unionists, and farming communists.

So do we have a fading echo of the bitter family quarrels of Socialism in the 20th Century?
Posted by Shoth Jones2120 2007-07-17 18:51||   2007-07-17 18:51|| Front Page Top

#24 Historically -- and by this I mean a generation and more previous to now -- the American Right was casually antisemitic, along with anti-anything non-WASP. Christian Zionism is a fairly new development, and some (quite a few) Jews haven't wrapped their minds round it yet. I didn't understand it properly myself until a couple of Rantburgers took the time to explain to me. Equally historically, the Left loved Israel as a successful Commmunist/Socialist experiment; it was only with the 1967 War and the appearence of the Soviet-supported PLO that the narrative changed, again something too many American Jews are having trouble grasping. However, there is a two-fold trendline that matters: the Orthodox Jews are having considerably more babies, and both Orthodox and younger Jews are much more likely to be conservative and vote Republican. This has been a matter of grave concern to the traditional Jewish political leadership since 2004, and is only getting worse.

Separately, a significant amount of the funds going to the Democrats are coming from a very few donors, like George Soros, not from the 80% of Jews who vote D. I'm afraid, ed, you can't go by "Jewish-sounding" names. Lots of those are actually German or Slavic, or of Jewish ancestors who converted to Christianity long ago.

Shoth Jones2120, I suspect only Liberalhawk can answer that question, as he seems to be the only one who actually understands the various strands of Jewish Socialism and how they evolved. (I'm still not clear on the difference between a Stalinist and a Trotskyite, and I'm pretty sure an explanation wouldn't help me.)
Posted by trailing wife 2007-07-17 20:03||   2007-07-17 20:03|| Front Page Top

#25 The explanation isn't too convoluted, TW. The explicit main point of contention was that the Trotskites proclaimed a belief in the importance of working for world revolution while Stalinists (during the years of purging the Trots)proclaimed that protecting the success of the Russian Revolution was paramount and that it was possible to have "socialism in one country." Even during that period, this stated divergence was mostly pretext because the heart of the difference was struggle for power with Stalin eliminating all his potential rivals and eliminating or intimidating their followers by moving alternately against "left" and "right" Communists. Supposed ideological differences were decidedly secondary to power politics.
Posted by Odysseus 2007-07-17 22:08||   2007-07-17 22:08|| Front Page Top

#26 TW, in this case I can. After the post googled the names and they were all affliated with Jewish organizations. Some I did not list as Jewish are in fact also Jewish, like Fred Eychaner (#17). I like to accurate information in order to make correct decisions. In this case, there is no disputing that very rich Jews are the primary funding source of the most liberal Democratic candidates and PACs.
Posted by ed 2007-07-17 23:41||   2007-07-17 23:41|| Front Page Top

23:58 Verlaine
23:47 Eric Jablow
23:45 Zenster
23:41 ed
23:41 Zenster
23:39 Phinater Thraviger
23:18 Verlaine
23:13 Super Hose
22:57 Zenster
22:45 Anonymoose
22:38 BA
22:37 Super Hose
22:36 W.O.P.R.
22:30 Super Hose
22:23 Super Hose
22:23 Sherry
22:17 Raider Ray
22:08 Odysseus
21:59 Super Hose
21:54 Super Hose
21:40 JosephMendiola
21:31 JosephMendiola
21:28 Mike N.
21:25 WTF
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